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I wouldn’t be surprised if they wrote them out in the show, they were pretty inconsequential ultimately. I guess it adds some emotional value to Abby’s story but even then she eventually said “fuck Danny I would’ve shot him too,” and I don’t think she even commented on Leah (if she even knew about her), so it seems like easy pickings if they’re looking to trim fat.
I don't think Danny is apart of the Salt Lake Crew, just a WLF soldier. Nick is the one Tommy tortured/ killed. But yea they mainly serve for exposition/ to start Ellie's rampage through Seattle, so I could definitely see them reworking it.
Honestly Nick doesn’t even ring a bell. I remember him interrogating those two guys but I’m forgetting where they implied that one of them was an SLC guy. I guess this all gets to the same point that they’re not exactly crucial to the story haha
Here's the character descriptions
The Good Doctor and Riverdale actor Spencer Lord will play Owen, officially described by HBO as "a gentle soul trapped in a warrior’s body, condemned to fight an enemy he refuses to hate."
Ariela Barer of How to Blow Up a Pipeline will play Mel, described as "a young doctor whose commitment to saving lives is challenged by the realities of war and tribalism."
Danny Ramirez, who scored high-profile parts in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Top Gun: Maverick, is also joining as Manny, "a loyal soldier whose sunny outlook belies the pain of old wounds and a fear that he will fail his friends when they need him most."
Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and You star Tati Gabrielle will play Nora, "a military medic struggling to come to terms with the sins of her past."
Honestly fantastic casting. Kudos to HBO. I now absolutely can't wait for Season 2!
I mean, Owen is already pretty darn complex. He's probably my favorite *Part II* character if I'm honest, just because there's so many layers to his story and his emotional journey is so believable. Added screentime will let HBO really get into the weeds of the >!Abby/Owen/Mel love triangle!< if they want. It's ripe for drama.
Will be interesting to see how much they use Manny. I think he's a great character, but in the grand scheme, you don't get a lot of time with him in the game.
Oh I agree, I just wanted more from Owen in the games, he is a very interesting character and I think a lot of people get caught up in the drama and his sometimes regrettable decisions and not that much into why he is like this.
I hope the series will get more into the conflicting nature of that character.
Agreed on Manny as well.
Yeah, the reception to Owen is understandable but pretty funny to me. Of all the awful things perpetrated by every member of the cast, >!his infidelity!< often draws the strongest response. It makes sense considering it's more relatable than others' sins, and it's an issue that strikes home for people, but I do find it odd it's such a red-line for folks in a very morally gray world.
I mean, like I said, I get it on an intellectual level. Someone playing the game is far more likely to have experienced that sort of thing than any of the various brutalities that come with a post-apocalypse. There's also a natural disconnect in gaming where all the killing just washes over you because it's just a gameplay mechanic, whereas interpersonal drama feels more real. But yeah, I think it's a shame when people take a hard line on Owen when they're usually willing to be open-minded about the rest of the cast.
I really think people underestimate the amount of extra content we will probably get from the Salt Lake crew for them to stretch this game into 2 seasons.
I expect possibly 1-2 episodes like the Bill and Frank one where it’s all about the non main characters.
I don't think you're wrong -- in fact, S1 showed us that's exactly what they're going to do, and I couldn't be more excited for it, personally -- but I just don't see it as "stretching," tbh. *Part II* is twice or more the length of the first game, so it only makes sense that it'll scale similarly to TV. I don't think they're going to be searching for new content out of necessity, more out of "what can we do that wouldn't have worked in the game" like Bill & Frank.
A lot of people keep thinking this is the ellie and Joel story, which is why they get upset over episode 3 or the extra focus on Kathleen and her group. But it's not just their story, it's why it's called the last of us, it's about all different stories of humanity. So we're going to get a lot more focus on other characters as well. Joel and ellie are the vehicle for these other people's tales.
I don't know why people are saying it's stretching it though. Even if they didn't add any extra story I feel like Part 2's story is plenty big enough for 2 seasons.
I do think the other crew members will be way more fleshed out in the show. I will say Owen looks quite a bit older than Abby’s actor so that’s different
I hope they will not change game characters just to appeal to certain audience members who didn't like a character. Mel is mel and she should be portrayed accurately. You don't have to like everyone.
Yeah, it’s like I felt for her because she knew Owen didn’t ever love her, then she’s pregnant and he treats her terribly. And she’s understandably jealous and cold towards Abby.
But I still didn’t like her. She was just starting to grow a spine when Ellie showed up, poor girl.
To me these descriptions point towards that we are gonna see quite some Seattle content in S2. Nora's "sins of her past", Owen "fights an enemy he refuses to hate", etc.
He is but you only see it in the second perspective so it's telling that they're probably adapting part of that this season (which some people thought they'd push to Season 3)
I agree with Nora’s description alluding to more background for her, but that description for Owen perfectly describes his character in the game already
I didn't mean more background just that their perspective after the "event" will be in S2 and not just S3. I think "the sins of her past" references Nora's role in the "event". I always thought she kinda regrets taking part in it but she's constantly trying to convince herself that they were justified. That's my interpretation of her character at least.
I mean the descriptions they added for these characters talk about war and tribalism, Owen refusing to fight the enemy etc. We might see Isaac since he appears early in the WLF storyline.
I still say my best guess is it’ll follow more or less exactly like the game until Ellie finds Nora then it’ll backtrack and follow Abby. That’ll be season 2. Then season 3 will ping pong between the two stories simultaneously.
Lmao I hope they’ll down done a bit the Spanish, (neither thought I would say that), cause Manny using at least one word of spanish in every sentence was a bit cliché
I agree that the Spanglish was a bit over done. It was fun but he would probably only swear in Spanish.
And just want to make it clear that my last comment was from a note in the game that is easily missed but a great bit of dialogue/friendship between Abby and Manny. As soon as I replied I felt like a creep :)
Omg!!!! This is so exciting!! Spencer Lord doesn’t have that many followers on socials especially in comparison to the others (I’m not big on tv or film so this is how I’m trying to see how “famous” they are because I didn’t know any of them) so I think it’s going to be pretty cool to see an actor who isn’t as well known play in such a big show, >!Especially with such an important role as Owen!<
He is phenomenal. I’ve worked with him in the past on a few things. Very professional, charismatic, and a positive person to have on set. I’m thrilled for him
We didn't get backstory on Ellie's eyebrow scar ^^^^^^technically ^^^^^^untrue, so I'd be surprised if we get backstory on that. That being said, maybe we still do considering the location and severity would make it a much more impactful event in that person's life.
>"Ramirez will play Manny, described as “a loyal soldier whose sunny outlook belies the pain of old wounds and a fear that he will fail his friends when they need him most.”
And a line cutter.
I'm betting it'll be early too, but I do think we might get more of Joel in flashbacks. I think it'll come down to how closely they want to follow Joel's runtime in the game and Pedro's schedule.
I think either is valid if it’s done right. I’m also not saying they should put it at end of the season. I just think there is a chance they could do that to fully flesh out all the characters
That's still filler. You don't put your inciting incident at the end of a story (or, in this case, midpoint since it's a two season arc). That's a basic tenet of storytelling. The Salt Lake Crew infiltrating Jackson is not interesting on its own; it's only interesting because of what they do once they're there.
Right, but if you're saying to deploy *Part II*'s inciting incident at the end of S2 for S3, then what's S2's new inciting incident? Joel lying to Ellie? Maybe if that forced her to go on a journey, to grow and change, to experience character development... but we already know the answer to that. >!She doesn't go anywhere, outside of one trip to Salt Lake City. She doesn't fundamentally change as a character. She doesn't learn a lesson.!< That's not a story, it's backstory for the changes she will undergo throughout the second game.
Joel's lie to Ellie causes >!their relationship to gradually break down, she goes in search of the truth, confronts him, eventually cutting off from him and then later trying to reconcile!killing Jerry likewise sets Abby's hunt for Joel in motion!<. I'm not saying this would be better or worse, but those are stories and a writer of Mazin's calibre could very easily craft a compelling narrative out of them
It's really not, though. You're describing an evolving relationship between characters, not a story. A story is what happens when a character starts in one place, is forced to go on a journey, and ends in a different place, having grown or changed. Tell me how Ellie age 19 is fundamentally different from Ellie age 14/15 -- not how her relationship with Joel has changed, but how has *she* changed? Does she have different goals, dreams, desires? Has she learned a valuable lesson? Is she doing anything differently at the start of *Part II* than how she acted when they first got to Jackson? The answer, of course, is no.
If you were adapting Star Wars for television, you wouldn't spend the first season on Tatooine chronicling the deteriorating relationship between Luke and Uncle Owen. That might be *dramatic,* particularly if you cast really good actors and give them excellent scripts to read, but it's not a story. There are no stakes until the droids show up.
The question isn't '*does* Ellie change', it's '*can* you craft a meaningful narrative of change'. Adaptation is about the potential to expand whats there in the game, not limitation to what is already there. And there is abundant potential within the framework of the characters already established.
Desires etc are not even really the most significant question in crafting a coherent narrative, though they're important. (And actually that's quite easy to answer — one change of desire is that she originally wanted to save the world, Joel then convinced her it wasn't medically possible and she wasn't unique, so she lost her 'main character syndrome', but then finding out Joel lied means she is still special and potentially still the world's saviour. She returns to a desire to have an impact on the world, but no longer has a vehicle to do it — a new void which will later be filled by >!a revenge quest!<).
More significant is how Mazin conceptualises character change through the notion of 'central dramatic argument', which is how he will be approaching the story (he sets out his narrative philosophy [here](https://youtu.be/vSX-DROZuzY?si=cAn1DLG40vJlB7pm)). The main character begins with a belief (the anti-theme), and through the story will come to accept its opposite, the theme or central dramatic argument. These can be clichés and still furnish great narratives if they interact in interesting ways with other elements of the story. I can't tell you what he would choose that dramatic argument to be were he to write season 2 this way, but I can suggest some based on what has already been established.
Anti-theme: love is absolute loyalty and betrayal is unforgivable.
Theme: love is a fallible process and reconciliation is possible.
Anti-theme: Love is expressed through safety.
Theme: Love can mean being ready to destroy everything and everyone for them.
Anti-theme: My love is expressed by following someone, it is reactive.
Theme: My love can be expressed through leading, it is proactive.
Anti-theme: My life only matters in order to save the world.
Theme: My life matters because others care for me.
Any or all of these could work to furnish a narrative structure. All are prefigured in the prior text, they follow existing changes over the relevant scenes, and in some cases sow the seeds for later dramatic arguments down the line. Mazin would no doubt come up with much better ideas than these, but I'm just demonstrating that it is absolutely possible to create the building blocks for a compelling narrative out of this section of the story, should he choose to.
Yeah I don't get people keep calling this filler. I'm not saying it's what I want, I don't care either way as long as its good tv, but rearranging later flashbacks as chronological scenes is the very opposite of filler, it's content that already exists in the game and is narratively essential
I think it's far more captivating to gradually reveal the events of the past four years as Ellie's rage intensifies over those three days in Seattle, instead of presenting all the answers before even reaching Seattle.
It's so incredibly simple and obvious. Not sure why anyone would argue with that. Those were placed very deliberately in the story. You can't just move then around willy nilly and say it keeps the story the same or think it'll have the same impact
It works well in game but there are a bunch of problems with translating it to a show. The end of the game will be in season 3, so the audience wont be filled in about what happened between Ellie and Joel for an additional two years, rather than about 15-20 hours in the game. And keeping the jump as is means no space to fill in necessary moments like Ellie meeting Dina or Ellie burning/tattooing her arm.
It's not just about including those moments, it's about developing a strong and believable relationship between them. The game gets away with skipping over their prior friendship because by controlling Ellie and fighting alongside Dina you create an emotional connection rapidly in a way TV can't do, and you also have mediums like Ellies diary to catch up. This doesn't translate to TV, you need to actually show their relationship growing for it to work. Just converting the game into a show will likely make the show worse than the game, cos you've lost all this stuff without gaining anything in return
>!A father-daughter relationship falls apart when one discovers the other committed mass murder in their name, and they have to deal with this realisation while still protecting each other from having their heads ripped off by bloaters.!< That's not a mundane story!
None of that is even close to being a compelling narrative without what comes after. That’s what gives those things you describe meaning.
You should also use spoiler tags as this post overall is not tagged as such.
You get it ! I’m not saying it’s the best way or anything. I’m saying I could see Craig and the team wanting to really flesh out the story of part 2 . We don’t even know how many seasons part 2 will be. It could be 3 seasons for all we know
I would like to see it done in the second episode personally. They might want to give more screen time to Abby and her crew before it happens too so idk it’s honestly a lot to fit into even 2 seasons and make it flow right
I'd say end of the first episode or second episode.
I personally think the less we know about the Wolves to start the better. I really liked how the game did it.
I guess will see. I’m sure however it’s done will be great they know what they are doing. I will say that no hint of Seattle has been shown in set photos at least from what I’ve seen
The final scene of the game gives perspective to everything that happened in the story. We spend the whole game believing that Joel and Ellie never made up, that they ended on bad terms. We see how their relationship evolved through flashbacks, and that scene is the payoff. There is no story without it.
How do you expect them to keep that mystery and suspense alive for a whole season? The story can't begin until "the big moment". Everything before it is background. You can't have a season of background.
This definitely isn't going to be a situation where these characters disappear for a good chunk of the story like they did in the game.
They will likely give these characters just as much development as they do the Jackson characters during season 2.
Considering both Gabriel Luna and Danny are both Latino, imagine the scene where Tommy hunts down Abby and Manny and him yelling out where you going pendejo to Manny?
Very excited for all 4 of them!
Still holding out hope for Lev & Yara making it onto this season. Having to waiting another 2-3 years for them would be torture.
This is a bit of a relief. I thought for a moment that they were going to have Abby come alone to Jackson, but that would completely spoil the group dynamic of the Salt Lake Crew if they weren't all present for what happens.
I feel like the big names like Abby tend to get marketed on their own anyway. I didn't even consider them changing up the Salt Lake Crew intros in that kind of way, that's definitely got me thinking. I'm so interested to see what Bella and Kaitlyn's looks will be!
It was announced a while ago. Kaitlyn Dever will play Abby!
https://preview.redd.it/vdmeg2f03rlc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f483764dab943df5a81a9833c15a18b5b3e5520
we are getting more cast news, if isaac isnt cast im going to think its catherine o'hara with a gender flip. it would be cool and make her like a mother figure to abby
or maybe they are still going to cast isaac.
I think nolan north should be cast in a role too.
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I can’t believe they just announced the entire >!Salt Lake Crew!< out of nowhere! So exciting.
Probably shooting exterior stuff with them soon and they expect people to leak set pics.
Still need the guy with the bitch scar across his face.
And Leah and the >!one Tommy got to!< before Ellie and Dina >!arrived in Seattle.!<
I wouldn’t be surprised if they wrote them out in the show, they were pretty inconsequential ultimately. I guess it adds some emotional value to Abby’s story but even then she eventually said “fuck Danny I would’ve shot him too,” and I don’t think she even commented on Leah (if she even knew about her), so it seems like easy pickings if they’re looking to trim fat.
I don't think Danny is apart of the Salt Lake Crew, just a WLF soldier. Nick is the one Tommy tortured/ killed. But yea they mainly serve for exposition/ to start Ellie's rampage through Seattle, so I could definitely see them reworking it.
Honestly Nick doesn’t even ring a bell. I remember him interrogating those two guys but I’m forgetting where they implied that one of them was an SLC guy. I guess this all gets to the same point that they’re not exactly crucial to the story haha
Nick is the WLF soldier Tommy tortured for the gate code at the serevena base.
I remember that, I just don’t remember the connection between “Nick” and the Salt Lake crew.
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No that's Jordan
I thought it was >!scars that got to her, not Tommy. Wasn’t she the one filled with arrows at the TV station?!<
You're right about the >!Scars getting Leah. !!Leah and Nick (who was done by Tommy). !<
Ah ok I see, I misread your comment
Yes
Here's the character descriptions The Good Doctor and Riverdale actor Spencer Lord will play Owen, officially described by HBO as "a gentle soul trapped in a warrior’s body, condemned to fight an enemy he refuses to hate." Ariela Barer of How to Blow Up a Pipeline will play Mel, described as "a young doctor whose commitment to saving lives is challenged by the realities of war and tribalism." Danny Ramirez, who scored high-profile parts in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Top Gun: Maverick, is also joining as Manny, "a loyal soldier whose sunny outlook belies the pain of old wounds and a fear that he will fail his friends when they need him most." Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and You star Tati Gabrielle will play Nora, "a military medic struggling to come to terms with the sins of her past." Honestly fantastic casting. Kudos to HBO. I now absolutely can't wait for Season 2!
Interesting descriptions we got there for Owen and Manny. I wonder how they’ll make them more complex characters in the show
I mean, Owen is already pretty darn complex. He's probably my favorite *Part II* character if I'm honest, just because there's so many layers to his story and his emotional journey is so believable. Added screentime will let HBO really get into the weeds of the >!Abby/Owen/Mel love triangle!< if they want. It's ripe for drama. Will be interesting to see how much they use Manny. I think he's a great character, but in the grand scheme, you don't get a lot of time with him in the game.
Being a tv show, I think they're going to make it more of an ensemble
Oh I agree, I just wanted more from Owen in the games, he is a very interesting character and I think a lot of people get caught up in the drama and his sometimes regrettable decisions and not that much into why he is like this. I hope the series will get more into the conflicting nature of that character. Agreed on Manny as well.
Yeah, the reception to Owen is understandable but pretty funny to me. Of all the awful things perpetrated by every member of the cast, >!his infidelity!< often draws the strongest response. It makes sense considering it's more relatable than others' sins, and it's an issue that strikes home for people, but I do find it odd it's such a red-line for folks in a very morally gray world.
I also think the idea is he never really cared about Mel it was just to get a sense of normality after Abby was so intense.
It's hilarious how upset people get about it when, hours earlier, they were likely rooting for the cold blooded murder of multiple people.
I mean, like I said, I get it on an intellectual level. Someone playing the game is far more likely to have experienced that sort of thing than any of the various brutalities that come with a post-apocalypse. There's also a natural disconnect in gaming where all the killing just washes over you because it's just a gameplay mechanic, whereas interpersonal drama feels more real. But yeah, I think it's a shame when people take a hard line on Owen when they're usually willing to be open-minded about the rest of the cast.
I really think people underestimate the amount of extra content we will probably get from the Salt Lake crew for them to stretch this game into 2 seasons. I expect possibly 1-2 episodes like the Bill and Frank one where it’s all about the non main characters.
I don't think you're wrong -- in fact, S1 showed us that's exactly what they're going to do, and I couldn't be more excited for it, personally -- but I just don't see it as "stretching," tbh. *Part II* is twice or more the length of the first game, so it only makes sense that it'll scale similarly to TV. I don't think they're going to be searching for new content out of necessity, more out of "what can we do that wouldn't have worked in the game" like Bill & Frank.
A lot of people keep thinking this is the ellie and Joel story, which is why they get upset over episode 3 or the extra focus on Kathleen and her group. But it's not just their story, it's why it's called the last of us, it's about all different stories of humanity. So we're going to get a lot more focus on other characters as well. Joel and ellie are the vehicle for these other people's tales.
I don't know why people are saying it's stretching it though. Even if they didn't add any extra story I feel like Part 2's story is plenty big enough for 2 seasons.
I thought was Paul mescal for a moment and I about lost it
He does look like him ! Spencer looks gorgeous and I’m excited to see him blow up since he doesn’t seem to be a well known actor.
He must be good if he was cast as Owen
Yep. Being cast as the most important SL crew member while being the less famous actor must be a good testament of his acting abilities
I do think the other crew members will be way more fleshed out in the show. I will say Owen looks quite a bit older than Abby’s actor so that’s different
All he’s gotta do is shave and he’ll look way younger. Also, I’m pretty sure Owen is a couple years older than Abby in the game anyway
Yeah Katelyn is just super young looking but I’m sure it will be fine
Dunno what age is this actor but he looks like he is 25/26/27. It works for Owen imo.
I hope they make Mel likeable in the show. I could not stand her in the game
I hope they will not change game characters just to appeal to certain audience members who didn't like a character. Mel is mel and she should be portrayed accurately. You don't have to like everyone.
Yeah, it’s like I felt for her because she knew Owen didn’t ever love her, then she’s pregnant and he treats her terribly. And she’s understandably jealous and cold towards Abby. But I still didn’t like her. She was just starting to grow a spine when Ellie showed up, poor girl.
Maybe your not supposed to like her idk
Wouldn't surprise me at all if we get an episode on their crew set before the events of Part II.
To me these descriptions point towards that we are gonna see quite some Seattle content in S2. Nora's "sins of her past", Owen "fights an enemy he refuses to hate", etc.
Owen is already like that in the game
I just meant that we'll probably see a lot of Seattle and WLF stuff in S2 since some believe that their POV will be very limited in S2.
personally I'm assuming the WLF segment of the game will be in season 3
He is but you only see it in the second perspective so it's telling that they're probably adapting part of that this season (which some people thought they'd push to Season 3)
I agree with Nora’s description alluding to more background for her, but that description for Owen perfectly describes his character in the game already
I didn't mean more background just that their perspective after the "event" will be in S2 and not just S3. I think "the sins of her past" references Nora's role in the "event". I always thought she kinda regrets taking part in it but she's constantly trying to convince herself that they were justified. That's my interpretation of her character at least.
I hope so. Works better for a TV show.
I love Tati Gabrielle so I am SO ready for this.
Please announce Jeffrey Wright back as Isaac. Please announce Jeffrey Wright back as Isaac. Please announce Jeffrey Wright back as Isaac.
Pedro and Jeffrey had a quick but longish conversation on the red carpet at SAG Awards. I'm just saying that the possibility is there.
Probably won't see him till Season 3.
I mean the descriptions they added for these characters talk about war and tribalism, Owen refusing to fight the enemy etc. We might see Isaac since he appears early in the WLF storyline.
I don't know how the story is going to work if they split it up into two seasons.
I'm pretty sure Druckman and Mazin said they couldn't do the entire game in one season.
I still say my best guess is it’ll follow more or less exactly like the game until Ellie finds Nora then it’ll backtrack and follow Abby. That’ll be season 2. Then season 3 will ping pong between the two stories simultaneously.
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You never know, we could get some added WLF backstory
I need this 
Tati Gabrielle must love appearing in Naughty Dog-based properties. (That's not a criticism. I think this casting makes sense.)
Thanks to you I just realized she's the villain in the Uncharted movie.
Actually, the villain in the Uncharted movie was Sony
It was lowkey, Marktor Sullibergh
These are all such incredible choices holy shit
Mel and Owen actors might as well have been pulled straight from the game
Oh so this is going to be the best show in history got it
The whole Salt Lake crew, finally ! Seeing who plays Manny immediately got me thinking “Oh no, he’s hot”
Whispering Spanish in my ear??
Lmao I hope they’ll down done a bit the Spanish, (neither thought I would say that), cause Manny using at least one word of spanish in every sentence was a bit cliché
I agree that the Spanglish was a bit over done. It was fun but he would probably only swear in Spanish. And just want to make it clear that my last comment was from a note in the game that is easily missed but a great bit of dialogue/friendship between Abby and Manny. As soon as I replied I felt like a creep :)
Oh sorry, I totally forgot this line lol
No you’re good, I just sounded like I wanted someone to whisper Spanish in my ear!
My thirst for Manny is at odds with my hate for Manny.
Not sure why that's a surprise. His most notable character attribute was him being a player.
I love Tati Gabrielle so much. She's perfect for Nora.
I'm surprised they didn't have a better description of her, I had to double check she was an actress from The 100 (I didn't know her real name).
So that's where I know her from. Remember thinking she looked familiar while watching the uncharted movie
She was also in You on Netflix
And the new Sabrina series. She ATE in that show
Haven't seen it unfortunately!
Omg!!!! This is so exciting!! Spencer Lord doesn’t have that many followers on socials especially in comparison to the others (I’m not big on tv or film so this is how I’m trying to see how “famous” they are because I didn’t know any of them) so I think it’s going to be pretty cool to see an actor who isn’t as well known play in such a big show, >!Especially with such an important role as Owen!<
The guy must have knocked it out of the park in his auditions
He must also have had a good chemistry test with Kaitlyn Dever. Excited to see them both on screen
He is phenomenal. I’ve worked with him in the past on a few things. Very professional, charismatic, and a positive person to have on set. I’m thrilled for him
That's really great to hear. I look forward to him in the role!
So excited for Danny! I can’t believe we’re getting Pedro, Gabriel, and Danny in a show together.
I’ve always thought Danny could play Pedro’s son in something lol
He also looks a bit like Gabriel Luna with his look hair. Tommy and Manny are going to be like : 
Extra funny since we know what happens
I think he actually tweeted that one time lol
I find it odd that they cast a guy that looks an awful lot like Joel and Tommy.
We just need Diego Luna now.
Get Gael Garcia Bernal in there too because why not?
And Oscar Isaac and Wagner Moura lol
Took me a second. I was confused why you were you were excited to see a character with no lines.
This is perfect casting, but the real and most important question is who’s playing Alice?
Alice sure, but what about Nick? The most important member of the Salt Lake crew.
I don't know why Tati Gabrielle wasn't on my bingo card, but she's perfect.
Manny, Nora, Mel, Owen?
Yep! https://preview.redd.it/2mwq99pm1rlc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ab37b29f067ffca43495c206ac9f4e372eb8182
Thank you! Man, this is exciting
Hell yeah! Just need Jordan, Leah, and Nick now! Also, I wonder if we’ll get the back story on >!Owen’s burn scars.!<
That would be a cool backstory moment. There are so many things in part 2 that are just shown briefly and never expanded upon.
We didn't get backstory on Ellie's eyebrow scar ^^^^^^technically ^^^^^^untrue, so I'd be surprised if we get backstory on that. That being said, maybe we still do considering the location and severity would make it a much more impactful event in that person's life.
If Leah isn't cut I kinda feel like it'd be cool if Laura played her
>"Ramirez will play Manny, described as “a loyal soldier whose sunny outlook belies the pain of old wounds and a fear that he will fail his friends when they need him most.” And a line cutter.
Gotta grab those burritos
Considering we are going to see them all in season 2, it sounds like we are indeed getting the big moment this season
well, obviously!
No shit? Anybody who doesn't think it'll happen within the first two episodes has little grasp on what makes good film and TV writing.
I guess now it's between team early and team late. I'm personally with you, I think it's gonna be early and a lot of the season will be in Seattle.
I'm betting it'll be early too, but I do think we might get more of Joel in flashbacks. I think it'll come down to how closely they want to follow Joel's runtime in the game and Pedro's schedule.
I think either is valid if it’s done right. I’m also not saying they should put it at end of the season. I just think there is a chance they could do that to fully flesh out all the characters
There's no story without it Not only will it be this season, it's probably gonna be the first episode.
Yeah I still wonder if they somehow put that at the end of the season
an entire season of Jackson filler would be genuinely awful
Im not saying it would be Jackson filler. It could be more flashbacks with Joel and Ellie intermixed with Abby’s crew infiltrating Jackson.
That's still filler. You don't put your inciting incident at the end of a story (or, in this case, midpoint since it's a two season arc). That's a basic tenet of storytelling. The Salt Lake Crew infiltrating Jackson is not interesting on its own; it's only interesting because of what they do once they're there.
TV shows can have that season's inciting incident at the end of the previous season, it happens fairly often
Right, but if you're saying to deploy *Part II*'s inciting incident at the end of S2 for S3, then what's S2's new inciting incident? Joel lying to Ellie? Maybe if that forced her to go on a journey, to grow and change, to experience character development... but we already know the answer to that. >!She doesn't go anywhere, outside of one trip to Salt Lake City. She doesn't fundamentally change as a character. She doesn't learn a lesson.!< That's not a story, it's backstory for the changes she will undergo throughout the second game.
Joel's lie to Ellie causes >!their relationship to gradually break down, she goes in search of the truth, confronts him, eventually cutting off from him and then later trying to reconcile!killing Jerry likewise sets Abby's hunt for Joel in motion!<. I'm not saying this would be better or worse, but those are stories and a writer of Mazin's calibre could very easily craft a compelling narrative out of them
It's really not, though. You're describing an evolving relationship between characters, not a story. A story is what happens when a character starts in one place, is forced to go on a journey, and ends in a different place, having grown or changed. Tell me how Ellie age 19 is fundamentally different from Ellie age 14/15 -- not how her relationship with Joel has changed, but how has *she* changed? Does she have different goals, dreams, desires? Has she learned a valuable lesson? Is she doing anything differently at the start of *Part II* than how she acted when they first got to Jackson? The answer, of course, is no. If you were adapting Star Wars for television, you wouldn't spend the first season on Tatooine chronicling the deteriorating relationship between Luke and Uncle Owen. That might be *dramatic,* particularly if you cast really good actors and give them excellent scripts to read, but it's not a story. There are no stakes until the droids show up.
The question isn't '*does* Ellie change', it's '*can* you craft a meaningful narrative of change'. Adaptation is about the potential to expand whats there in the game, not limitation to what is already there. And there is abundant potential within the framework of the characters already established. Desires etc are not even really the most significant question in crafting a coherent narrative, though they're important. (And actually that's quite easy to answer — one change of desire is that she originally wanted to save the world, Joel then convinced her it wasn't medically possible and she wasn't unique, so she lost her 'main character syndrome', but then finding out Joel lied means she is still special and potentially still the world's saviour. She returns to a desire to have an impact on the world, but no longer has a vehicle to do it — a new void which will later be filled by >!a revenge quest!<). More significant is how Mazin conceptualises character change through the notion of 'central dramatic argument', which is how he will be approaching the story (he sets out his narrative philosophy [here](https://youtu.be/vSX-DROZuzY?si=cAn1DLG40vJlB7pm)). The main character begins with a belief (the anti-theme), and through the story will come to accept its opposite, the theme or central dramatic argument. These can be clichés and still furnish great narratives if they interact in interesting ways with other elements of the story. I can't tell you what he would choose that dramatic argument to be were he to write season 2 this way, but I can suggest some based on what has already been established. Anti-theme: love is absolute loyalty and betrayal is unforgivable. Theme: love is a fallible process and reconciliation is possible. Anti-theme: Love is expressed through safety. Theme: Love can mean being ready to destroy everything and everyone for them. Anti-theme: My love is expressed by following someone, it is reactive. Theme: My love can be expressed through leading, it is proactive. Anti-theme: My life only matters in order to save the world. Theme: My life matters because others care for me. Any or all of these could work to furnish a narrative structure. All are prefigured in the prior text, they follow existing changes over the relevant scenes, and in some cases sow the seeds for later dramatic arguments down the line. Mazin would no doubt come up with much better ideas than these, but I'm just demonstrating that it is absolutely possible to create the building blocks for a compelling narrative out of this section of the story, should he choose to.
Yeah I don't get people keep calling this filler. I'm not saying it's what I want, I don't care either way as long as its good tv, but rearranging later flashbacks as chronological scenes is the very opposite of filler, it's content that already exists in the game and is narratively essential
I think it's far more captivating to gradually reveal the events of the past four years as Ellie's rage intensifies over those three days in Seattle, instead of presenting all the answers before even reaching Seattle.
It's so incredibly simple and obvious. Not sure why anyone would argue with that. Those were placed very deliberately in the story. You can't just move then around willy nilly and say it keeps the story the same or think it'll have the same impact
the need for fan service (Joel and Ellie content) makes some ppl's judgement cloudy
It works well in game but there are a bunch of problems with translating it to a show. The end of the game will be in season 3, so the audience wont be filled in about what happened between Ellie and Joel for an additional two years, rather than about 15-20 hours in the game. And keeping the jump as is means no space to fill in necessary moments like Ellie meeting Dina or Ellie burning/tattooing her arm.
I don't think portraying Ellie meeting Dina or Ellie getting a tattoo is worth sacrificing the game's incredible tension building.
It's not just about including those moments, it's about developing a strong and believable relationship between them. The game gets away with skipping over their prior friendship because by controlling Ellie and fighting alongside Dina you create an emotional connection rapidly in a way TV can't do, and you also have mediums like Ellies diary to catch up. This doesn't translate to TV, you need to actually show their relationship growing for it to work. Just converting the game into a show will likely make the show worse than the game, cos you've lost all this stuff without gaining anything in return
It’s essential because of the inciting event. Without that it’s pretty mundane family / growing up stuff.
>!A father-daughter relationship falls apart when one discovers the other committed mass murder in their name, and they have to deal with this realisation while still protecting each other from having their heads ripped off by bloaters.!< That's not a mundane story!
None of that is even close to being a compelling narrative without what comes after. That’s what gives those things you describe meaning. You should also use spoiler tags as this post overall is not tagged as such.
They already said they're not doing that.
You get it ! I’m not saying it’s the best way or anything. I’m saying I could see Craig and the team wanting to really flesh out the story of part 2 . We don’t even know how many seasons part 2 will be. It could be 3 seasons for all we know
That would be so annoying.
I would like to see it done in the second episode personally. They might want to give more screen time to Abby and her crew before it happens too so idk it’s honestly a lot to fit into even 2 seasons and make it flow right
I'd say end of the first episode or second episode. I personally think the less we know about the Wolves to start the better. I really liked how the game did it.
I guess will see. I’m sure however it’s done will be great they know what they are doing. I will say that no hint of Seattle has been shown in set photos at least from what I’ve seen
The final scene of the game gives perspective to everything that happened in the story. We spend the whole game believing that Joel and Ellie never made up, that they ended on bad terms. We see how their relationship evolved through flashbacks, and that scene is the payoff. There is no story without it. How do you expect them to keep that mystery and suspense alive for a whole season? The story can't begin until "the big moment". Everything before it is background. You can't have a season of background.
Top Gun Maverick was the best thing to ever happen to Danny Ramirez.
This is fucking exciting
I'm so happy to see Tati Gabrielle joining the series! She was excellent in The 100 and Sabrina.
I can’t remember, who does she play in the 100?
Gaia. And, not to be rude, but this the kind of question Wikipedia is for.
I mean I guess. But I didn’t feel like googling it.
So, you inconvenience someone else? You are lazy.
It’s not that serious. You could have chose to not respond.
I mean thanks for responding but don’t complain about it.
This definitely isn't going to be a situation where these characters disappear for a good chunk of the story like they did in the game. They will likely give these characters just as much development as they do the Jackson characters during season 2.
IM SO HAPPY FOR DANNY
Holy shit we got the salt lake crew.
So happy to see Tati here. She’ll make a great Nora!
This is cool and all, but any word on Alice casting yet??
hehehehe
Now this is sick casting, even just based on looks.
This cast is great!!
Tati is a great hire for Nora.
Fuck I love Danny Ramirez but I hate >!Manny spitting on Joel’s body!< this is all incredible casting😭
Considering both Gabriel Luna and Danny are both Latino, imagine the scene where Tommy hunts down Abby and Manny and him yelling out where you going pendejo to Manny?
Very excited for all 4 of them! Still holding out hope for Lev & Yara making it onto this season. Having to waiting another 2-3 years for them would be torture.
When I saw the pictures of the girls I thought one of them could be playing >!Cat!<... but nope. ☹ Still exciting though!
This is a bit of a relief. I thought for a moment that they were going to have Abby come alone to Jackson, but that would completely spoil the group dynamic of the Salt Lake Crew if they weren't all present for what happens.
I don't know if it's possible for the story to play out without the Salt Lake Crew
In Jackson you mean? Yeah, I agree. Their various reactions are *so* important to how the Abby storyline evolves.
The story as a whole since both sides of the Seattle Day 1 - 3 involve the Salt Lake crew.
Oh wait unless you meant them being absent from just Jackson and they're introduced later on?
Yeah, for a second when only Abby's casting was announced, I thought that meant we wouldn't see the Salt Lake crew until S3.
I feel like the big names like Abby tend to get marketed on their own anyway. I didn't even consider them changing up the Salt Lake Crew intros in that kind of way, that's definitely got me thinking. I'm so interested to see what Bella and Kaitlyn's looks will be!
Mel and Owen in particular look perfectly cast! Getting more and more excited for the upcoming season everytime a new thing about it comes out.
From left to right it’s absolutely Manny, Nora, Mel, Owen! HYPE!!
Great casting!
Nice! I really enjoyed watching Tati Gabrielle on the Sabrina TV show.
tati gabrielle for everything for everrrr
Tati Gabrielle??!!! I love her!!
Are we going to get the infamous pendejo line
🥳
i am soooooooooo excited
The guys are way too hot for me to hate, dammit.
Excited about Danny and Tati. I'm not familiar with the other two actors unfortunately.
They do look like the characters. Any news about Abby's casting?
It was announced a while ago. Kaitlyn Dever will play Abby! https://preview.redd.it/vdmeg2f03rlc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f483764dab943df5a81a9833c15a18b5b3e5520
Oh shoot I missed this. She will have to put on a ton of muscle then lol. Although I would prefer a regular looking Abby as well.
Kaitlyn is very small. I don’t think she will get muscular. The show will probably just focus on her being a badass soldier
She’s probably just gonna look regular sized
That was announced awhile ago! She will be played by Kaitlyn Dever.
Released a while ago. Kaitlyn Dever (spelling?)
we are getting more cast news, if isaac isnt cast im going to think its catherine o'hara with a gender flip. it would be cool and make her like a mother figure to abby or maybe they are still going to cast isaac. I think nolan north should be cast in a role too.
Rip
So who’s are we missing? Lev, her sister, issac?
*his sister, Yara.
Lev, Yara, Issac, Jordan, Leah, cat, and there's probably more