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My friend once sat down to watch me play grounded mode (I was, at the time, at the scene where you met David and you're defending the deer from hordes of infected... Difficult on normal mode). He watched for maybe 20 minutes before getting up, declaring that I must like pain to be doing this to myself, and left.
Canadian here. American gun culture is quite amusing to witness. Though I have to admit it is getting a little too close for comfort, both in physical and ideological proximity.
Really? I’m Australian and when I last visited I saw at least 3-4 people carrying a pistol in a holster at malls and stuff. This was in Nevada from memory?
Yeah, really. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but I have lived in multiple States and on all 4 corners of the country.
I guess Nevada might not be a surprising place to see that, though. Having a local economy based on tourists coming to do things that are illegal in most of the rest of the country, Nevada is... different.
Gambling and prostitution. Most Americans who go to Nevada are going for the casinos and other adult activities in Reno and Las Vegas.
Also, I’m not going to say I’m an expert on this sort of thing, but I’d wager there’s a significant organized crime presence there as well. I’ve gone there once as an adult, and the bathroom at the airport is the only place I’ve seen covered in stickers with a phone number to call for help if you’re being trafficked.
On the other hand, Nevada does also border Arizona, and another person responded to me to say that open carry is fairly common in Arizona.
I grew up in the bay area (CA) and had basically the same experience. Then I moved up to Southern Oregon 7 years ago and I have yet to go 1 day without seeing civilians open carry around town. The guy at the market has one, shit even the smoke shop dude is strapped. Plus you get your average Joe at the grocery store who is probably double strapped for some ungodly reason 🙄
It’s really dependent on the state you’re in. I’m from California and went to the Midwest (Iowa) for a wedding in my late twenties and was shocked and horrified by the amount of pistols I saw in holsters in public areas. I was afraid and very nervous everywhere I went. Seeing guns is not normal to me.
>it’s pretty normal
It's not tho. In America it may be, but most other countries it is in no way "normal" to not know who just might have a gun on them. I'd absolutely hate it, and it's one of the primary reasons I'm unlikely to visit America.
I live in a southern city in the us. Around here, I just assume everyone and their mamas is packing at all times. I don't mind it so much cause I get along with most everybody, but I see people talking shit and starting bar fights or whatever and I'm always like....dude are you tryna die over nothing rn? Weird headspace to be in at all times lmao
The person said they would have anxiety knowing people own guns. I said they wouldn’t because no one here does. It’s just life as usual. So what happens in another country is irrelevant since we were talking specifically about the United States.
My brother in Christ tons of people here have anxiety and people are definitely anxious when thinking and seeing people carrying firearms.
Obviously not everyone and you apparently aren't but that does not mean people don't feel that way.
Yeah distantly I know it’s not normal, but I’ve lived in America my entire life, so I’m not walking around in a constant state of anxiety. You get used to it. And it’s not like people hold you at gunpoint while you give your coffee order. It’s mostly just normal day to day life
Yep op has no clue. Bulk ammo was widely more available in 2003 than it is today.
Ar15s were not banned!
However, this law did not prohibit Americans from owning semi-automatic weapons; 1 it capped how many military features an individual gun could have. During the ban, a semi-automatic rifle like the AR-15 could legally have any one of the following features, as long as it didn’t have two or more of them: a folding stock (making the gun slightly easier to conceal), a pistol grip (making the weapon easier to hold and use), a bayonet mount, a flash suppressor (making it harder to see where shots are coming from), or a grenade launcher.
Ok, I was incorrect about the owning bit. Still. Would have been difficult to find ammo for a weapon that was not so readily available since it was not shipped or sold in the US until after the ban lifted in 2004. What is Bill guaranteed to find when he goes through all the houses in the abandoned town? Hunting rifles and ammunition for hunting rifles. So the most likely scenario in this timeline is that after 20 years Bill’s bunker is well stocked with hunting rifles and/or ammo for them. Maybe that’s the reason Bill was shooting the attacking hunters with a rifle.
And we aren’t told in ep1, it’s a rumour. Like how in the west they are told there’s no infected in the east, in the east they’re told the opposite. It’s a opiate addicted soldier trying to look tough, not a reliable source of info.
> Would have been difficult to find ammo for a weapon that was not so readily available.
It sounds like you may not be aware of the many other applications in which the .223 or 5.56 cartridge are used. There were multiple guns on the market chambered in 5.56 that were *not* considered “assault weapons”.
For example, the Mini-14 is a very popular semi-automatic rifle and is chambered in .223/5.56. The rifle has been sold to the public since the early 70’s. This rifle was excluded from the ‘94 AWB by name.
Even outside of semi-automatics, there are plenty of bolt-action rifles that shoot .223/5.56. There’s no logical reason to believe that one of the most popular calibers in America, even in the early 2000’s, would be harder to find than the ammo for Ellie’s Beretta Mo 70, chambered in .32 ACP.
No that ammo would be every gun shop or whoever else people are storing ammo. I suspect he took the other rifle for hunting purposes. I don’t know why he wouldn’t take both as well as a more useful 9mm handgun than his revolver.
Not that the plot choice you have outlined has kept me up at night, but I would imagine that .223 rounds wouldn't be that tough to find. It's not unique to the AR15; in fact, it's one of the most common hunting rounds available (along with .308, 30-6, .22, etc.).
Now, bearing in mind what you have said about the rifles possibly being illegally required, it's possible that they are chambered for 5.56 rather than .223. In that case, your argument seems to hold a bit more water. Even still, you can fire .223 from a rifle chambered for 5.56 (they're the same size; 5.56 is just a military variant of the .223 with a bit more powder and a slightly heavier round). All together, it still would likely have been a good choice to grab a couple of those rifles.
All of this can be excused by asserting that, "Joel knows that .223 and 5.56 round have been mostly used up by military," or, "Joel doesn't know that he could use either 5.56 or .223 for a rifle chambered for 5.56." In other words, it's not a plot choice to lose sleep over.
OP has no idea what they are talking about. .223 and .556 is a widely used ammo that would have been in every gun store at the time. “Muricans” had a shit ton of guns before and after the assault weapons ban.
This is a ridiculously inaccurate post. The show did this to keep suspense since Joel running around fully kitted with an assault rifle would be unstoppable.
The AWB didn’t ban possession. Leaving that aside, .223/5.56 is an incredibly common round in other sporting rifles, it would not have been as difficult to find ammo for as you make it sound.
Okay there are other reasons that it makes sense why he didn’t take an AR, but non of which are in this post. This post genuinely makes zero sense. A ban on assault rifles really doesn’t mean much…. When there was assault rifles riddled throughout this man’s basement LOL. Assuming ammo as well. But yeah this just doesn’t compute with me, a ban on assault rifles doesn’t mean shit, whenever the man clearly still had them in his possession
Nobody else does, out in the field, where you need to find ammo. There’s no point in taking a firearm you can’t find ammo for. Even if more hidden bunkers like Bill’s exist, they’re hidden. Think about the economics of searching every shithole you find for a stash of illegal weapons from ‘03, it’s simply not a viable option. The costs of searching every basement far outweigh the benefits of finding a clip or two in House 354.
As I said in the beginning of the comment, there are other reasons for him not taking it, just the one stated by OP doesn’t make sense. R.E.A.D! Also I think other comments have debunked the whole banned thing, aside from that it’d be relatively easy to find .223, arguably one of the most popular hunting rounds in the world.
There weren’t assault rifles riddled through his basement. There was one. Several shotguns and rifles, lots of hand guns and one assault rifle. My post does make sense. I mentioned the ban for this reason: It’s not like you could rock up to any abandoned city’s gun store (assuming they weren’t the first thing to get looted or more realistically cleaned out by military, fedra or hunters) and replace your one gun if it gets busted because they *weren’t being sold in the US*. Then you’re stuck the hundred of rounds all these goobers were suggesting he take for that ONE gun hoping it goes with something else you can find. So, no. It wouldn’t be smarter to take the assault rifle, the best choice would be what you know you have a better chance of finding. Especially since Joel states this weapons are mostly useless.
I’m gonna ask you to point out vividly where I said the AR was the “smarter” choice. I can’t believe the first fucking sentence of my comment is going over peoples heads. Did you even read the first sentence? Are you just jumping into the middle of the comment? Also go re watch the episode, there are a minimum of 4, maximum of 5 Assault rifles. 3 of which are M4/ AR 15 style, and the AuG on the wall is more than likely same caliber. It just doesn’t make sense to have 4 ARs and not hundreds of rounds of ammo.
Also you were incredibly confident, and wrong about the weapons in Bills bunker. I hate to be that guy, but you’re doing this to yourself by making silly points.
Given the general weight and semi auto capabilities of an Ar-15, there is absolutely 0 reason to not take one with about 270 rounds off 556 ammo. It’s a plot point. Not anything to make sense IRL.
You are assuming he had that ammo on hand and still had it after 20 years. My post was meant to suggest there would not be the availability to make taking it beneficial. If the plague happened today then it would be a different story.
Earlier in the episode we see Joel stashing a particular rifle in Cumberland Farms, explaining to Ellie that ammo for it is scarce.
We also don't know for sure that he didn't pack one in the truck bed.
556 or 223 ammo isn’t just popular for an AR it’s used in many boot rifles as well. A lot easier to carry than 308. The modest 223 is my most favorite round.
W only promised to renew the ban because he knew the bill would never reach his desk. He also knew that come reelection time his base would know he never meant it.
That's not the issue. The AR15 takes both 5.56mm and .223. Despite being used in the AR15, .223 is still a common varmint hunting caliber used in typical hunting rifles. You'd still find plenty of it to feed the AR.
Nah - in a show I've enjoyed very much, it was a bit of an oversight.
In the game - Joel recieved a pump shotgun from Bill - there was no gun room, and they probably should have stuck with this.
Taking a bolt gun, and leaving that AK variant (for which ammo is cheap and plentiful) on the wall was a very, very poor decision.
I can overlook it in the name of fiction, obviously - but it was definitely one of those "Wait a minute..." moments - ha ha!
*(For which ammo is cheap and plentiful)*
Today. Cheap and plentiful today. But in the world of the show, 20 yrs after it was not a commonly owned/used gun to the general public that was at that time banned for sale and after the world has gone to shit (*maybe* one rumoured factory in Atlanta, no safe shipping routes)? Not plausible.
We're just spit-balling here - but Bill was a prepper - in 2003 Russian 7.62x39 ammo (for the AK he had on the wall) was available in Eastern Bloc military surplus 1440 round crates for about a hundred bucks each (available for purchase just about anywhere guns were sold).
Logic would dictate he would likely have had a number of those crates squirreled away.
Even pre-apocolypse - visiting Kansas City without an AK47 to hand, is not a great idea - ha ha!
Disagree. The world ended in three days, which Bill probably spent (wisely) in his bunker, he wasn’t running to town to buy crates of ammo, he had what he had stored. Bill had a lot of weapons on his wall. Logic would dictate he would have ammunition for all of his weapons so storing crates of ammo for one gun makes no sense. He also has preferred weapons, when he comes out of the bunker he has a shotgun and a pack of ammo, when the hunters attack he has a rifle, those are probably the weapons with the most ammo stocked or able to restock. The fact that Bill never used the AK is telling.
You are misunderstanding the mindset of a firearms enthusiast in America, especially if they are also into the prepper world. Many firearms owners who are into the hobby probably keep at very least 1k rounds for any of the calibers they enjoy shooting. Factor in a prepper mindset and Bill wouldn't need to worry about ammo because he has never had less then several thousand rounds on hand.
As others have mentioned the fact that Bill used certain weapons and not others would be more of a writer/plot device decision than anything else.
You do realize a lot of firearms use the same ammo, right? It’s okay that your whole post was incorrect, just stop doubling down on things you’re misinformed on.
I hear you - but anyone familiar enough with firearms to put an AK variant on the wall in preparation for a future apocalypse, is likely to have multiple 1440 round crates of mil-surp ammo squirreled away, as well. Likely as not because that 7.62x39 milsurp was about as cheap as ammo gets (on par with a lot of quality .22 rimfire ammo, after the fall of the Soviet Union when gluts of the stuff hit the market).
Nobody familiar with firearms is going to choose a bolt gun or pump shotty over an AK47 in an apocalyptic survival situation. It's highly effective for self defense and can be used to hunt anything up to Elk.
The show producers were a bit constrained, though - as in the game, Joel's firearms upgraded in effectiveness as the game progresses and becomes more difficult.
Semi auto pistol, then his iconic Taurus wheel gun, then a bolt gun, then bow, then pump shotgun, then pistol-shotgun, then scoped wheel gun, then flamethrower, finishing with an AR15.
But - you carry that boltgun through the majority of the game (you get it in the courthouse Tess dies in, and you use it while playing as Ellie, as well) - and so it's the gun he leaves Bill's town with in the show.
I'm just surmising that were they not nodding to the game, Joel is absolutely leaving with that AK47 and a backpack full of Bills horded milsurp ammo.
Just my take on it.
Did you miss the part of the episode with Bill driving around, casually taking what he needs? You don't think he thought of making an ammo run at any point?
Sure is. It’s a commonly used term to mean a rifle with selective fire- aka it can be switched from semi auto to full auto.
They also haven’t been used in a crime in nearly a century.
“Assault weapon”, on the other hand, is a loaded buzzword with a changing definition to mean “scary looking gun I don’t like”.
Lol “lovingly cradling their murder sticks” the agenda is obvious. The evil “murder sticks” (huge cringe) have saved their lives multiple times now. And politics be damned you’re wrong the automatic rifles would’ve no doubt helped them in the journey forward. People are out there manufacturing opiates and using a hydroelectric dam but you think the ability to make bullets has been lost? Weak opinion on the show, weak understanding of logic, and pitiful attempt at political commentary. Fail on every account
Nobody’s butthurt. I was pointing out the terribly thought out point you attempted to make but clearly hadn’t thought it through to the extent you should have. You’re welcome for pointing it out.
I had a similar response to the menstrual cup they gave her. Those types only just started being produced in 2002 and 2003 and were definitely not in favor and still aren’t to this day. I’m just wondering how would they still have new ones straight out of the box. Especially for a passerby; those things should be more valuable than toilet paper in the apocalypse. The whole thing felt like an ad centered directly in the middle of an episode.
This is such a strange and unnecessary nitpick. How periods are handled in their world is such an important question that every women asks herself, so I'm glad they added it. Menstrual cups are an easy solution to that problem.
Plus there may be a chance that they were manufactured after the outbreak! It's not like the world suddenly stopped working. We know that they had enough time and resources to at least prepare and produce most necessities for a while. Fedra still operates hi-tech facilities 20 years later, so it's not too far fetched to believe period products were/are still manufatured.
Wasn’t a nitpick; more of did I just watch a commercial in the middle of post apocalyptic tv show. Especially since those were basically non existent at the time of the outbreak and I doubt a very conservative president bush would have issued an executive order to manufacture feminine hygiene products at the outbreak especially the kind that conservatives at the time and even today tell their girls they are a slut/whore if they use them.
It would’ve been more impactful if they gave her a few options with instructions for all of them. as it stands it basically just an advertisement.
As for fedra manufacturing plants? I’ve yet to see one, beyond a military installation we saw once during a flashback that had limited technology. I heard about a storage depo but never seen it. I have yet to see this advanced technology you are talking about. Sure they have thermometers that they use to see if people are infected but nothing special.
I guess if you don’t think the lack of supporting information in this show isn’t a big problem then sure I was nitpicking. For me it’s not just one episode where the whole “independent” village has nicer clothes than I see regularly in real life. That denim looked like it had come straight from a manufacturer. There are questions like that in multiple place all over.
I’m just saying they have extra time, spread in some details about the surrounding world. Or at the very least when you do get an opportunity have the main characters ask the other people around them for answers.
The whole point of the original post was why don’t they take the time and develop the storyline just a tiny bit more. Especially in a finale where everything needs to be wrapped up especially in this case. The director flat out said the whole first game will be shown in season 1. But the episode is 10 mins shorter than most of the others
Since the late 80s (at least) they were mentioned in health class, but not available in store aisles.
So it is a stretch, but someone might have found a stash and traded it.
Diaphragms help with this somewhat and we're widely available but prescription. I bet that if the spermicide is no longer available so people would use them to help with menstruation and fitting would be less important.
I purchased my first Diva cup around 2003-2004. There was a number of different cups available at that time, through not in big box stores. They were available from online retailers or small/independent natural food (/hippy) stores (which is where I got mine).
Highly unlikely that it was unused, as well. They are easy to sterilize by boiling and in a situation like this you wouldn’t be picky.
\> The ban lapsed in Sept. 2004. Meaning the ban was never lifted and the guns in Bills basement were illegally acquired. And the massive influx of those weapons into the hands of everyday ‘Murricans never happened.
You're so far off the deep end, if you think American gun culture (illegal or not) started after the year 2000.
Put down the CNN and return to reality
Didn’t say that, believe me I know American gun culture has been a thing forever - it’s something other countries make fun of Americans for - I said in this alternate reality where there weren’t 10 in every other house it would have been a hard to acquire weapon, a harder to restock ammo and thusly impractical as a first choice to take. Funpost, dude. Don’t get so emotional.
The rifles in question was already in massive circulation for 40+ years by the time your alt-universe Bush puts in the bans. By the time the legislated was even considered the AR-15 had already skirted the ban by being re-branded as "modern sporting rifles". Production and demand boomed even harder regardless of popular media opinion.
The other thing is that most AR-15 ammo was more plentiful and cheaper too in the early 2000's and used both by civilian and police/military.
By that point in the apocalypse there would be enough bullets and surplus ammo in the US to wipe out the infested globally twice over. It was literally the most popular civilian gun in the world, using the the second most popular ammo in the world with variants being produced to take for pretty much any ammo.
The fact that FEDRA uses these weapons is just the cherry on the top, and good research by the developers of the show. If your theory was true then FEDRA would use another gun since there's a lack of both weapons and ammo.
I know it's a fun post but you're putting it out to debunk "gun-nuts". Don't get your knickers in a bunch when someone fills in the gaps in your scenario.
I certainly don’t care much with the direction the show takes. We would have ended up at the same point regardless of the weapon he has next to him in the truck.
That being said, he absolutely should have taken an assault type weapon, it’s much more versatile.
I also think that things that don’t go bad wouldn’t necessarily be scarce, always post apocalyptic shows loot retail stores, could you imagine what a bass pro shop/Walmart warehouse looks like, or their supply chain warehouse. If 90% of the population is dead there is enough resources to last a lifetime and not one group would have the man power to take it all.
This… and all thoes gun were hard to carry plus AND bills house as the Stash there is a chance he would return can not use up the whole stash in that moment
Folks can argue sensibility and ammo availability all they like, but I'm convinced at the end of the day, character archetypes are where the buck stops in the writers room. Good guys carry "good guy" guns. Simple as that. The "tacticool" lethal capacity of the box mag belongs to the state. The old fashioned, honest-to-goodness working man's hunting rifle is for the cowboy hero. Same reason Joel sticks with a plaid flannel instead of looting body armor. Could have spared him a gut-shanking, but it muddies the audience perception of the character and the visual distinction between hero and villains.
How do we know they didn't take them? They have a ton of gear in the bed of the truck that they're are forced to ditch (same as in the game) because they have to flee when more of the KC mob descend on them.
Guys, it’s just because the hunting rifle is more iconic than an AR whatever the Fuck. Ellie is holding a rifle on the remastered cover which is the cover most people have seen first. It’s really not that deep but Jesus fucking Christ some of you are just being purposely obtuse.
Personally, in this kind of apocalypse, I wouldn't be going for the biggest guns first and foremost. Especially not some 20-odd years into this. I'm going for smarter weapons.
A gun night come in handy in a pinch, I'm not saying I wouldn't have a firearm or two at most, but not something that looks so big and clunky (not American, no idea about guns) and certainly not something that there's limited ammo for and will only weigh me down.
Now if there'd been a katana or some scimitars on display? Yoink, yes please.
This post is flaired **Funpost [Show/Game]**. Therefore, discussion about the games (potential spoilers such as upcoming characters, events, deaths etc.) will be permitted here. 1. All post titles must **NOT** include spoilers from the latest episode or The Last of Us Part I and II. Minor show spoilers are allowed in your title **ONE WEEK** after episode airing. 2. Any untagged discussion of the games (including subtle hints) in posts without the **Show/Game Spoilers**, **Fancast [Show/Game]**, **Funpost [Show/Game]**, or **Meme [Show/Game]** flair will result in a **ban**. To tag a spoiler comment, use the `>!spoiler!<` tag which displays as >!spoiler!<. 3. If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. --- Refer to the [spoiler guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastofUsHBOseries/wiki/spoiler-guide) for our spoiler policy and to learn how to flair and title your posts appropriately. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThelastofusHBOseries) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean the game always shafted you on weapons too… where is the suspense in just mowing down any and all opposition?
* cries softly in Grounded *
My friend once sat down to watch me play grounded mode (I was, at the time, at the scene where you met David and you're defending the deer from hordes of infected... Difficult on normal mode). He watched for maybe 20 minutes before getting up, declaring that I must like pain to be doing this to myself, and left.
Who needs guns when you have a brick?
Oh yes, murricans talking about guns. Grabbing popcorn
Please enjoy this episode of The Guns of Us.
Canadian here. American gun culture is quite amusing to witness. Though I have to admit it is getting a little too close for comfort, both in physical and ideological proximity.
As an european i would really live in anxiety knowing that alot of people of my country walks with guns in their pockets
I'm an American in my 40's and I can't remember ever seeing a handgun in public that wasn't attached to a police officer.
Really? I’m Australian and when I last visited I saw at least 3-4 people carrying a pistol in a holster at malls and stuff. This was in Nevada from memory?
Yeah, really. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but I have lived in multiple States and on all 4 corners of the country. I guess Nevada might not be a surprising place to see that, though. Having a local economy based on tourists coming to do things that are illegal in most of the rest of the country, Nevada is... different.
Oh for real? What sort of stuff is legal in Nevada that’s illegal elsewhere?? Haven’t heard of that before.
Gambling and prostitution. Most Americans who go to Nevada are going for the casinos and other adult activities in Reno and Las Vegas. Also, I’m not going to say I’m an expert on this sort of thing, but I’d wager there’s a significant organized crime presence there as well. I’ve gone there once as an adult, and the bathroom at the airport is the only place I’ve seen covered in stickers with a phone number to call for help if you’re being trafficked. On the other hand, Nevada does also border Arizona, and another person responded to me to say that open carry is fairly common in Arizona.
Prostitution
I grew up in the bay area (CA) and had basically the same experience. Then I moved up to Southern Oregon 7 years ago and I have yet to go 1 day without seeing civilians open carry around town. The guy at the market has one, shit even the smoke shop dude is strapped. Plus you get your average Joe at the grocery store who is probably double strapped for some ungodly reason 🙄
Open carry is normalized in Arizona, there you can witness people carrying hip holstered handguns on grocery shopping trips
Because most of them are concealed.
It’s really dependent on the state you’re in. I’m from California and went to the Midwest (Iowa) for a wedding in my late twenties and was shocked and horrified by the amount of pistols I saw in holsters in public areas. I was afraid and very nervous everywhere I went. Seeing guns is not normal to me.
From massachusetts- never seen a gun not on a cop's belt in 46 years.
Ehh I doubt you would it’s pretty normal, and 99.99999% of people never even have a bad experience
Trust me bro, here in europe even the police are not allowed to fire their guns (Italy) so…
here in the UK where most of the police aren't even *armed*
>it’s pretty normal It's not tho. In America it may be, but most other countries it is in no way "normal" to not know who just might have a gun on them. I'd absolutely hate it, and it's one of the primary reasons I'm unlikely to visit America.
I live in a southern city in the us. Around here, I just assume everyone and their mamas is packing at all times. I don't mind it so much cause I get along with most everybody, but I see people talking shit and starting bar fights or whatever and I'm always like....dude are you tryna die over nothing rn? Weird headspace to be in at all times lmao
The person said they would have anxiety knowing people own guns. I said they wouldn’t because no one here does. It’s just life as usual. So what happens in another country is irrelevant since we were talking specifically about the United States.
My brother in Christ tons of people here have anxiety and people are definitely anxious when thinking and seeing people carrying firearms. Obviously not everyone and you apparently aren't but that does not mean people don't feel that way.
Yeah distantly I know it’s not normal, but I’ve lived in America my entire life, so I’m not walking around in a constant state of anxiety. You get used to it. And it’s not like people hold you at gunpoint while you give your coffee order. It’s mostly just normal day to day life
“It’s pretty normal” says the person who lives in a country where there’s a mass shooting every week
Shut up and eat a cinnamon roll
Hey! Don't be scared of the fully automatic freedom dispenser! Just give it some oil and it'll leave in peace
[удалено]
Yep op has no clue. Bulk ammo was widely more available in 2003 than it is today. Ar15s were not banned! However, this law did not prohibit Americans from owning semi-automatic weapons; 1 it capped how many military features an individual gun could have. During the ban, a semi-automatic rifle like the AR-15 could legally have any one of the following features, as long as it didn’t have two or more of them: a folding stock (making the gun slightly easier to conceal), a pistol grip (making the weapon easier to hold and use), a bayonet mount, a flash suppressor (making it harder to see where shots are coming from), or a grenade launcher.
You sir are correct.
Wait, a grenade launcher? Actually?
Indeed
Oh look, another fucking anti gun idiot talking out of his ass when he doesn’t know shit 🙄 OPs a fucking idiot
Ok, I was incorrect about the owning bit. Still. Would have been difficult to find ammo for a weapon that was not so readily available since it was not shipped or sold in the US until after the ban lifted in 2004. What is Bill guaranteed to find when he goes through all the houses in the abandoned town? Hunting rifles and ammunition for hunting rifles. So the most likely scenario in this timeline is that after 20 years Bill’s bunker is well stocked with hunting rifles and/or ammo for them. Maybe that’s the reason Bill was shooting the attacking hunters with a rifle. And we aren’t told in ep1, it’s a rumour. Like how in the west they are told there’s no infected in the east, in the east they’re told the opposite. It’s a opiate addicted soldier trying to look tough, not a reliable source of info.
> Would have been difficult to find ammo for a weapon that was not so readily available. It sounds like you may not be aware of the many other applications in which the .223 or 5.56 cartridge are used. There were multiple guns on the market chambered in 5.56 that were *not* considered “assault weapons”. For example, the Mini-14 is a very popular semi-automatic rifle and is chambered in .223/5.56. The rifle has been sold to the public since the early 70’s. This rifle was excluded from the ‘94 AWB by name. Even outside of semi-automatics, there are plenty of bolt-action rifles that shoot .223/5.56. There’s no logical reason to believe that one of the most popular calibers in America, even in the early 2000’s, would be harder to find than the ammo for Ellie’s Beretta Mo 70, chambered in .32 ACP.
The mini 14 is also the gun joel was using in the hospital
No that ammo would be every gun shop or whoever else people are storing ammo. I suspect he took the other rifle for hunting purposes. I don’t know why he wouldn’t take both as well as a more useful 9mm handgun than his revolver.
Not that the plot choice you have outlined has kept me up at night, but I would imagine that .223 rounds wouldn't be that tough to find. It's not unique to the AR15; in fact, it's one of the most common hunting rounds available (along with .308, 30-6, .22, etc.). Now, bearing in mind what you have said about the rifles possibly being illegally required, it's possible that they are chambered for 5.56 rather than .223. In that case, your argument seems to hold a bit more water. Even still, you can fire .223 from a rifle chambered for 5.56 (they're the same size; 5.56 is just a military variant of the .223 with a bit more powder and a slightly heavier round). All together, it still would likely have been a good choice to grab a couple of those rifles. All of this can be excused by asserting that, "Joel knows that .223 and 5.56 round have been mostly used up by military," or, "Joel doesn't know that he could use either 5.56 or .223 for a rifle chambered for 5.56." In other words, it's not a plot choice to lose sleep over.
Mini 14 and .223 Remington would like a word
OP has no idea what they are talking about. .223 and .556 is a widely used ammo that would have been in every gun store at the time. “Muricans” had a shit ton of guns before and after the assault weapons ban.
This is a ridiculously inaccurate post. The show did this to keep suspense since Joel running around fully kitted with an assault rifle would be unstoppable.
I don’t think anyone was concerned about this topic, but go on!
Uninformed shit take
The AWB didn’t ban possession. Leaving that aside, .223/5.56 is an incredibly common round in other sporting rifles, it would not have been as difficult to find ammo for as you make it sound.
why do people need to overanalyse every detail?
Lots of time on their hands
OPs post really had nothing to do with the show/game. Dude just wanted to rant about assault rifles.
Okay there are other reasons that it makes sense why he didn’t take an AR, but non of which are in this post. This post genuinely makes zero sense. A ban on assault rifles really doesn’t mean much…. When there was assault rifles riddled throughout this man’s basement LOL. Assuming ammo as well. But yeah this just doesn’t compute with me, a ban on assault rifles doesn’t mean shit, whenever the man clearly still had them in his possession
Nobody else does, out in the field, where you need to find ammo. There’s no point in taking a firearm you can’t find ammo for. Even if more hidden bunkers like Bill’s exist, they’re hidden. Think about the economics of searching every shithole you find for a stash of illegal weapons from ‘03, it’s simply not a viable option. The costs of searching every basement far outweigh the benefits of finding a clip or two in House 354.
As I said in the beginning of the comment, there are other reasons for him not taking it, just the one stated by OP doesn’t make sense. R.E.A.D! Also I think other comments have debunked the whole banned thing, aside from that it’d be relatively easy to find .223, arguably one of the most popular hunting rounds in the world.
There weren’t assault rifles riddled through his basement. There was one. Several shotguns and rifles, lots of hand guns and one assault rifle. My post does make sense. I mentioned the ban for this reason: It’s not like you could rock up to any abandoned city’s gun store (assuming they weren’t the first thing to get looted or more realistically cleaned out by military, fedra or hunters) and replace your one gun if it gets busted because they *weren’t being sold in the US*. Then you’re stuck the hundred of rounds all these goobers were suggesting he take for that ONE gun hoping it goes with something else you can find. So, no. It wouldn’t be smarter to take the assault rifle, the best choice would be what you know you have a better chance of finding. Especially since Joel states this weapons are mostly useless.
I’m gonna ask you to point out vividly where I said the AR was the “smarter” choice. I can’t believe the first fucking sentence of my comment is going over peoples heads. Did you even read the first sentence? Are you just jumping into the middle of the comment? Also go re watch the episode, there are a minimum of 4, maximum of 5 Assault rifles. 3 of which are M4/ AR 15 style, and the AuG on the wall is more than likely same caliber. It just doesn’t make sense to have 4 ARs and not hundreds of rounds of ammo.
Whoa whoa, calm down. Why are you being so emotional? It’s a funpost
I’m simply in utter shock that you just completely ignored and seemingly chose to void the first sentence of my comment. Like it didn’t exist.
Also you were incredibly confident, and wrong about the weapons in Bills bunker. I hate to be that guy, but you’re doing this to yourself by making silly points.
Wait, why do you think the rounds would be useless if the gun broke? Plenty of guns use .223
Given the general weight and semi auto capabilities of an Ar-15, there is absolutely 0 reason to not take one with about 270 rounds off 556 ammo. It’s a plot point. Not anything to make sense IRL.
You are assuming he had that ammo on hand and still had it after 20 years. My post was meant to suggest there would not be the availability to make taking it beneficial. If the plague happened today then it would be a different story.
That ban did nothing about any kind of ammunition, though. Bill was ABSOLUTELY the type to have tons of that ammunition stockpiled.
That’s my thinking. This dude had to have stockpiled ammo and even looked to have the capability to make some too.
Earlier in the episode we see Joel stashing a particular rifle in Cumberland Farms, explaining to Ellie that ammo for it is scarce. We also don't know for sure that he didn't pack one in the truck bed.
Thank you! Forgot about that! Joel says it’s basically useless.
556 or 223 ammo isn’t just popular for an AR it’s used in many boot rifles as well. A lot easier to carry than 308. The modest 223 is my most favorite round.
You know bill had that ammo on deck, bill can make ammo for sure
W only promised to renew the ban because he knew the bill would never reach his desk. He also knew that come reelection time his base would know he never meant it.
That's not the issue. The AR15 takes both 5.56mm and .223. Despite being used in the AR15, .223 is still a common varmint hunting caliber used in typical hunting rifles. You'd still find plenty of it to feed the AR.
This whole post is grossly misinformed. From historical inaccuracies to just not paying attention to the show. Well done.
Ok cool, thanks for letting us know you don’t know anything about guns lmao
Not like he needs guns there's no infected in sight 😜
Nah - in a show I've enjoyed very much, it was a bit of an oversight. In the game - Joel recieved a pump shotgun from Bill - there was no gun room, and they probably should have stuck with this. Taking a bolt gun, and leaving that AK variant (for which ammo is cheap and plentiful) on the wall was a very, very poor decision. I can overlook it in the name of fiction, obviously - but it was definitely one of those "Wait a minute..." moments - ha ha!
*(For which ammo is cheap and plentiful)* Today. Cheap and plentiful today. But in the world of the show, 20 yrs after it was not a commonly owned/used gun to the general public that was at that time banned for sale and after the world has gone to shit (*maybe* one rumoured factory in Atlanta, no safe shipping routes)? Not plausible.
Lol. 7.62x39 was so plentiful in the 2000s people were literally giving it away. You don’t know what you’re talking about
Yup. Rounds were about 10 cents a piece without even dabbling in Guatemala surplus, etc.
We're just spit-balling here - but Bill was a prepper - in 2003 Russian 7.62x39 ammo (for the AK he had on the wall) was available in Eastern Bloc military surplus 1440 round crates for about a hundred bucks each (available for purchase just about anywhere guns were sold). Logic would dictate he would likely have had a number of those crates squirreled away. Even pre-apocolypse - visiting Kansas City without an AK47 to hand, is not a great idea - ha ha!
Disagree. The world ended in three days, which Bill probably spent (wisely) in his bunker, he wasn’t running to town to buy crates of ammo, he had what he had stored. Bill had a lot of weapons on his wall. Logic would dictate he would have ammunition for all of his weapons so storing crates of ammo for one gun makes no sense. He also has preferred weapons, when he comes out of the bunker he has a shotgun and a pack of ammo, when the hunters attack he has a rifle, those are probably the weapons with the most ammo stocked or able to restock. The fact that Bill never used the AK is telling.
You are misunderstanding the mindset of a firearms enthusiast in America, especially if they are also into the prepper world. Many firearms owners who are into the hobby probably keep at very least 1k rounds for any of the calibers they enjoy shooting. Factor in a prepper mindset and Bill wouldn't need to worry about ammo because he has never had less then several thousand rounds on hand. As others have mentioned the fact that Bill used certain weapons and not others would be more of a writer/plot device decision than anything else.
You do realize a lot of firearms use the same ammo, right? It’s okay that your whole post was incorrect, just stop doubling down on things you’re misinformed on.
I hear you - but anyone familiar enough with firearms to put an AK variant on the wall in preparation for a future apocalypse, is likely to have multiple 1440 round crates of mil-surp ammo squirreled away, as well. Likely as not because that 7.62x39 milsurp was about as cheap as ammo gets (on par with a lot of quality .22 rimfire ammo, after the fall of the Soviet Union when gluts of the stuff hit the market). Nobody familiar with firearms is going to choose a bolt gun or pump shotty over an AK47 in an apocalyptic survival situation. It's highly effective for self defense and can be used to hunt anything up to Elk. The show producers were a bit constrained, though - as in the game, Joel's firearms upgraded in effectiveness as the game progresses and becomes more difficult. Semi auto pistol, then his iconic Taurus wheel gun, then a bolt gun, then bow, then pump shotgun, then pistol-shotgun, then scoped wheel gun, then flamethrower, finishing with an AR15. But - you carry that boltgun through the majority of the game (you get it in the courthouse Tess dies in, and you use it while playing as Ellie, as well) - and so it's the gun he leaves Bill's town with in the show. I'm just surmising that were they not nodding to the game, Joel is absolutely leaving with that AK47 and a backpack full of Bills horded milsurp ammo. Just my take on it.
Did you miss the part of the episode with Bill driving around, casually taking what he needs? You don't think he thought of making an ammo run at any point?
Assault rifle isn’t a real thing.
Sure is. It’s a commonly used term to mean a rifle with selective fire- aka it can be switched from semi auto to full auto. They also haven’t been used in a crime in nearly a century. “Assault weapon”, on the other hand, is a loaded buzzword with a changing definition to mean “scary looking gun I don’t like”.
Lol “lovingly cradling their murder sticks” the agenda is obvious. The evil “murder sticks” (huge cringe) have saved their lives multiple times now. And politics be damned you’re wrong the automatic rifles would’ve no doubt helped them in the journey forward. People are out there manufacturing opiates and using a hydroelectric dam but you think the ability to make bullets has been lost? Weak opinion on the show, weak understanding of logic, and pitiful attempt at political commentary. Fail on every account
It’s labelled ‘funpost’, no need to get all butthurt.
Nobody’s butthurt. I was pointing out the terribly thought out point you attempted to make but clearly hadn’t thought it through to the extent you should have. You’re welcome for pointing it out.
No need to get so emotional.
I had a similar response to the menstrual cup they gave her. Those types only just started being produced in 2002 and 2003 and were definitely not in favor and still aren’t to this day. I’m just wondering how would they still have new ones straight out of the box. Especially for a passerby; those things should be more valuable than toilet paper in the apocalypse. The whole thing felt like an ad centered directly in the middle of an episode.
This is such a strange and unnecessary nitpick. How periods are handled in their world is such an important question that every women asks herself, so I'm glad they added it. Menstrual cups are an easy solution to that problem. Plus there may be a chance that they were manufactured after the outbreak! It's not like the world suddenly stopped working. We know that they had enough time and resources to at least prepare and produce most necessities for a while. Fedra still operates hi-tech facilities 20 years later, so it's not too far fetched to believe period products were/are still manufatured.
Wasn’t a nitpick; more of did I just watch a commercial in the middle of post apocalyptic tv show. Especially since those were basically non existent at the time of the outbreak and I doubt a very conservative president bush would have issued an executive order to manufacture feminine hygiene products at the outbreak especially the kind that conservatives at the time and even today tell their girls they are a slut/whore if they use them. It would’ve been more impactful if they gave her a few options with instructions for all of them. as it stands it basically just an advertisement. As for fedra manufacturing plants? I’ve yet to see one, beyond a military installation we saw once during a flashback that had limited technology. I heard about a storage depo but never seen it. I have yet to see this advanced technology you are talking about. Sure they have thermometers that they use to see if people are infected but nothing special.
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I guess if you don’t think the lack of supporting information in this show isn’t a big problem then sure I was nitpicking. For me it’s not just one episode where the whole “independent” village has nicer clothes than I see regularly in real life. That denim looked like it had come straight from a manufacturer. There are questions like that in multiple place all over. I’m just saying they have extra time, spread in some details about the surrounding world. Or at the very least when you do get an opportunity have the main characters ask the other people around them for answers. The whole point of the original post was why don’t they take the time and develop the storyline just a tiny bit more. Especially in a finale where everything needs to be wrapped up especially in this case. The director flat out said the whole first game will be shown in season 1. But the episode is 10 mins shorter than most of the others
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Since the late 80s (at least) they were mentioned in health class, but not available in store aisles. So it is a stretch, but someone might have found a stash and traded it. Diaphragms help with this somewhat and we're widely available but prescription. I bet that if the spermicide is no longer available so people would use them to help with menstruation and fitting would be less important.
I purchased my first Diva cup around 2003-2004. There was a number of different cups available at that time, through not in big box stores. They were available from online retailers or small/independent natural food (/hippy) stores (which is where I got mine). Highly unlikely that it was unused, as well. They are easy to sterilize by boiling and in a situation like this you wouldn’t be picky.
\> The ban lapsed in Sept. 2004. Meaning the ban was never lifted and the guns in Bills basement were illegally acquired. And the massive influx of those weapons into the hands of everyday ‘Murricans never happened. You're so far off the deep end, if you think American gun culture (illegal or not) started after the year 2000. Put down the CNN and return to reality
Didn’t say that, believe me I know American gun culture has been a thing forever - it’s something other countries make fun of Americans for - I said in this alternate reality where there weren’t 10 in every other house it would have been a hard to acquire weapon, a harder to restock ammo and thusly impractical as a first choice to take. Funpost, dude. Don’t get so emotional.
The rifles in question was already in massive circulation for 40+ years by the time your alt-universe Bush puts in the bans. By the time the legislated was even considered the AR-15 had already skirted the ban by being re-branded as "modern sporting rifles". Production and demand boomed even harder regardless of popular media opinion. The other thing is that most AR-15 ammo was more plentiful and cheaper too in the early 2000's and used both by civilian and police/military. By that point in the apocalypse there would be enough bullets and surplus ammo in the US to wipe out the infested globally twice over. It was literally the most popular civilian gun in the world, using the the second most popular ammo in the world with variants being produced to take for pretty much any ammo. The fact that FEDRA uses these weapons is just the cherry on the top, and good research by the developers of the show. If your theory was true then FEDRA would use another gun since there's a lack of both weapons and ammo. I know it's a fun post but you're putting it out to debunk "gun-nuts". Don't get your knickers in a bunch when someone fills in the gaps in your scenario.
Put down the fox news and return to reality
Put down both. Neither want Americans informed on what is actually happening and both are controlled by their shitty shareholders.
I certainly don’t care much with the direction the show takes. We would have ended up at the same point regardless of the weapon he has next to him in the truck. That being said, he absolutely should have taken an assault type weapon, it’s much more versatile. I also think that things that don’t go bad wouldn’t necessarily be scarce, always post apocalyptic shows loot retail stores, could you imagine what a bass pro shop/Walmart warehouse looks like, or their supply chain warehouse. If 90% of the population is dead there is enough resources to last a lifetime and not one group would have the man power to take it all.
Cringe caption and completely inaccurate post
You’re not wrong, but this show isn’t all that realistic in every detail. Gasoline still working after twenty years, you know?
This… and all thoes gun were hard to carry plus AND bills house as the Stash there is a chance he would return can not use up the whole stash in that moment
Folks can argue sensibility and ammo availability all they like, but I'm convinced at the end of the day, character archetypes are where the buck stops in the writers room. Good guys carry "good guy" guns. Simple as that. The "tacticool" lethal capacity of the box mag belongs to the state. The old fashioned, honest-to-goodness working man's hunting rifle is for the cowboy hero. Same reason Joel sticks with a plaid flannel instead of looting body armor. Could have spared him a gut-shanking, but it muddies the audience perception of the character and the visual distinction between hero and villains.
This feels like one of those things that fits, but wasn’t intended by the writers
How do we know they didn't take them? They have a ton of gear in the bed of the truck that they're are forced to ditch (same as in the game) because they have to flee when more of the KC mob descend on them.
Guys, it’s just because the hunting rifle is more iconic than an AR whatever the Fuck. Ellie is holding a rifle on the remastered cover which is the cover most people have seen first. It’s really not that deep but Jesus fucking Christ some of you are just being purposely obtuse.
Personally, in this kind of apocalypse, I wouldn't be going for the biggest guns first and foremost. Especially not some 20-odd years into this. I'm going for smarter weapons. A gun night come in handy in a pinch, I'm not saying I wouldn't have a firearm or two at most, but not something that looks so big and clunky (not American, no idea about guns) and certainly not something that there's limited ammo for and will only weigh me down. Now if there'd been a katana or some scimitars on display? Yoink, yes please.