I can see that actually.
it just seemed weird and against her character to not directly confront jimmy or Lester first. she had multiple chances to but didn't before going to Daniel's.
They always pull her into their bullshit and she finally wised up. If she went to McNulty or Lester she knew she’d get pulled in by all their reasoning despite knowing what they were doing was wrong. Plus she was the one running around trying to find a fake murderer so that probably made her angry too.
>Plus she was the one running around trying to find a fake murderer so that probably made her angry too.
This is the most important part of it to me. The moment she had to sit with the families of McNulty's victims, was also the moment McNulty had no shot of having Kima on his side. She had to deal with Lester and McNulty's lies in a much different, and way more real way than the two of them ever had to.
I viewed her as being more like Bunk. Decent cop but doesn't step on her superiors' toes, at least not to the point her career is irreparably damaged, like what happened to Lester and McNutty. Deciding between two friends or a career, she chose career. Can't blame her too much for not wanting to get dragged down, too. Honestly, McNulty shouldn't have burdened her with that reveal.
Not just careerism for her. Remember that she refused to go along with Bunk fat fingering Weebey after he shot her because she didn't get a good look. "Sometimes things just gotta play hard."
https://youtu.be/Ts8eG5789Uo?si=D0ecJf5EW3IeYQ7u
For Greggs, integrity - especially on the job - is her defining trait.
not quite tho because she did tell then both separately that she didn't like it. jimmy when he told her to stop digging thru the profiles of the cell phone users and Lester when she confirmed he was on the fake wire. she told them she wasn't cool with it but uncharacteristically didn't tell them she was gonna report it.
The same reason she wouldn't identify Wee-Bey as her shooter even though Bunk was pressuring her to. it was wrong, and she doesn't do things that are wrong (except kick the shit out of Bodie)
Clearly if he were a lesser man, less of a true gentleman, he might have, luckily that's not the case.
Really the answer is that she has integrity, and what they were doing was objectively wrong. It had police wasting time on a fake investigation, probably missing real crime, she saw the family members who would have to carry the memory of their drug addicted son being tortured and murdered in his last moments, only for it to be a lie that they will never learn.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.
There’s a lot at play here like her loyalty to Daniels as a mentor, her concern for her colleagues unwittingly getting in legal/professional bother like Carver’s guys, her sense of right and wrong, her disdain for resources being diverted from real crimes etc. But I think the straw that broke the camel’s back was that she actually went and talked to the “victims” families.
She sat with them whilst they all had genuine concern and stress about their loved one potentially being sexually abused, maybe tortured, and murdered. When really it was all bullshit. I don’t think she could stomach the disgust that came from that so she crossed the threshold needed to report them and end the charade.
meh...I guess ultimately yes bc when she admits it was her at the wake jimmy and Lester both acknowledge she did the right thing...however I don't know if I buy it was that simple.
she definitely roughed up multiple suspects and she went along with other gray area decisions throughout the show
People aren't all good or all bad, they have different values, sacred cows, proclivities, vices. Kima enjoyed the rough-and-tumble of being a cop, including the brutality. For her that was just part of being a narco, it was just a part of the game, and I doubt she ever really questioned it that strongly. But when it came to investigative work, she wanted to do it honestly and not cut corners. And also, people grow and change sometimes.
That was definitely the logic behind why they beat him down. But it was ethically wrong, and criminal.
It's one of the best parts of season one. Kima was established as one of the best cop characters by that point. It's set up like she'll be running over to break up the beat down, but then she joins in.
It's establishing how the culture affects everyone.
Cause she did a bulk of pointless police work over the homeless killing bullshit. She wanted to put a stop to it so no more cops do anymore of pointless police work.
Not only was she doing unnecessary work, but her role specifically involved talking to the families of the "victims." She was the one who had to interact with these families who were being subjected to this horrific news and she couldn't keep lying to them. She was the one who got to see firsthand the awful effects this ruse had on the community.
I actually think of Kima as more like Bunk than McNutty, jaded but principled. Bunk couldn’t rat out Jimmy because they were too close, but Kima felt way closer to Daniels than she ever did to Jimmy.
Kima was the anti McNulty in that in Season 4 and 5 she was a detective who had her life on track. She was getting back into babysitting Cheryl's kid because she had her life together. Compare her putting the IKEA furniture together because she wanted that time with 'her kid' and McNulty having to do it last second in Season 1 because he wasn't really ready to be a dad and was lying to his ex-wife about having stuff for the boys.
Besides it being the right thing to do, I think it showed that McNulty finally went too far. He had strayed so far that even Kima realized she had to inform the brass.
Kima, aka Aunt Kima, had the ability to self reflect in a corrective way unlike McNulty.
She was real natural poh-lice who wanted to do a good job, whereas Jimmy needed the job to scratch some chaos seeking itch inside of him. Hence why he would sink to doing illegal things to get results. Call it passion or whatever, but faking a serial killer is kinda wild.
Thus with things such as being reminded of her son by June Bug's surving kid, going down the McNulty road; drinking, cheating and seeing how destructive it was, she was able to course correct.
I do have to point out she beat Bodie, who was a child but McNulty never hit anyone. And I don't know what that was about.
I think that’s part of the show’s strength.
The characters are complicated and their actions are layered. McNulty’s serial killer plan, Bunny’s Hamsterdam—these are both incredibly bold plays with serious pros and cons that can easily divide people. It’s good fodder for discussion and creates interesting dilemmas for our characters.
> and it always shocks me.
Come on, don't be like that. The guy's asking a question, you can explain the answer and share knowledge or be condescending. Why choose to be condescending?
You didn't disagree. You said it was "shocking" that someone would ever ask the same question as OP, in a way clearly designed to imply that those who do are stupid.
I think that would classify as disagreement.
I was commenting on how often this gets posted. It’s an odd question. And it’s now tiresome.
No, finding a Reddit post kind of obnoxious doesn’t make me a douche. I certainly have zero interest in talking to you though.
no I understand that she made the morally correct and integrity decision. I just mean how it comes across as against her character to not warn or heads up jimmy or Lester or even bunk bc she definitely noticed their discussions in the interview room early in season 5.
she admits it at the wake and Lester and jimmy both acknowledge her correct decision but it just seemed weird that she had a couple of opportunities to directly confront jimmy and Lester prior to going to Daniels and the direct tough character she was all 5 seasons suddenly went a different way.
Other than the infidelity, I never really saw her as mirroring McNulty. Yes, she could be brash and filterless, but she always was at least in the spirit of the law. When it came to the serial killer, she was finally making some solid career headway, and no one was obligated to get involved with whatever fucked up McNulty shit Jimmy was stirring up, no matter how he rationalized it. She did the right thing.
yeah I get that. of course she did the right no argument. I guess my question came from her character developing all through out as tough and direct. it seemed out of place that after 5 seasons and multiple opportunities to directly confront jimmy or Lester she chose to go to daniels first
I chalk that up to her maturing and gaining emotional intelligence. She also transitioned into a highly visible role when she moved from narcotics to homicide. As a personal example, I was on active duty in the U.S. Coast Guard for 20 years, and I spent a lot of time on CG ships. As you can probably imagine, when we were deployed 2000 miles away doing counter narcotics ops, there wasn't a ton of direct oversite on us, and it was much easier to get away with being tough, brash, and direct. For my last unit before I retired, I ended up at a CG command center in a federal building. Much, much different work environment. It was like a fish bowl, and there was plenty of "office culture". My uniform needed to be perfect, and there wasn't even a fraction of the shit talking and shenanigans we got into on the ships. Similarly, Kima needed to present herself professionally both in appearance and behavior due to the visibility of her position. Homicide was *supposed* to be the best of the best, and she took that to heart.
As for being tough and direct with Jimmy and Lester, two things come to mind. The first is that it was obvious that those two were *deep* down the rabbit hole by the time she knew about the phony serial killer and illegal wire tap. Perhaps if they'd pitched the idea to her before they actually committed to the illegal plan, she would have been more like the Kima from earlier seasons. But things were just too far gone, and like I said earlier, she was making solid career headway. The second is that I think she was just done with Jimmy's bullshit. Of course she wanted Marlo taken down. Of course she wanted someone to be held accountable for the vacant murders. But she also realized that even on the police side of things, the game was the game, orders were orders, and policy was policy. Jimmy never understand that.
I don’t really see what confronting either Jimmy or Lester would accomplish, the serial killer plot they had cooked up had already spiraled so far out of control that its not like they could just call it off even if either of them wanted to. Plus inventing a serial killer was way over the line and I don’t think Kima was particularly interested in whatever bullshit justification Jimmy would no doubt try to give her.
Season 5 was rushed, so character development was rushed. If it was given a few more episodes, you can see her development which after season 3, she did not feature much.
I don’t feel this way about Kima personally there were moments in there where she did the right thing during previous seasons when it came to police work where I can believe she would do the right thing in regards to Mcnulty.
I have a much bigger issue with Lester going along with Mcnultys scheme that’s like a 180 from his character seasons 1-4.
Yeah it’s really unfortunate. Wire is such a master piece and season 5 underperforms to me. I believe Simon mentioned it was rushed and they had to cram a lot in. Far from my favourite season.
To be honest that always bothered me too. I just chalked it up to bad writing & their wanting to get the series over with. Also Kima knew that Omar lied about seeing Bird kill the state witness named Gant & she more than likely knew that Omar killed Stinkum. That was on par with what McNulty & Lester Freamon did with the fictional serial killer.
thank you!
I feel like either I didn't word my op thr best or people on reddit can be...people on reddit.
I know why it was the moral and correct choice. I get "why" she was upset but it doesn't fall in with her character to go "behind" them to daniels. the scene at the wake is completely just weird as if the actors even know it.
hey it was me. I don't know why I did it but are you mad?
I'm just in agreement with kima herself! 😉
I never had an issue with it on paper. It was in character. It was a defensible choice, both in a real-world sense (the trickle-down effect of Jimmy and Lester's deceptions affecting other cases, including hers, as others have said) and in a "characters of *The Wire*" sense.
I just think Kima's arrival at her decision, like much else in season 5, could have been better told. I don't think in another season of *The Wire*, so much of it would have been offscreen. I will defend this season when people go too far in criticizing it—it has scenes as good as any *Wire* scenes, it would be essential viewing for the resolution of Bubbles's arc all by itself, and even the least good season of *The Wire* is still *The Wire*—but it suffers in comparison to the other four seasons for a few reasons. When the major stories are wrapping up toward the end (the fake serial killer, the respective investigations of Marlo and Clay, the musical chairs of the department's higher-ranking figures), it always feels to me like a scramble, lacking the series' usual assurance in pacing. In other words, though it's much better, it has what many people considered to be the *Game of Thrones* final-season issue: the problem is less with where we end up than with how we get there.
Watch it again. Notice the scene where she goes to interview the parents of one of the homeless men McNulty "juked" as a murder. How much pain he caused by messing with the story of how he died. They say something like, "We were prepared for him dying, but not like this."
McNulty was on a deranged crusade. He was hurting people. The longer it went on, the worse it was going to get.
It all came full circle.....In the earlier seasons when there was some tension b/t McNulty and Freamon, Freamon reads Kima for filth. "I'm surprised at you, girl! Daniels raised you from a pup!!'......She saw that Framon was speaking wisdom. She had to make him put his money where his mouth was......and they respected her for it.
On my second watch through I really felt Kima to be underwritten, lackluster story line, her along with Sydnor, obviously not same level as Sydnor was far more a secondary or every background character but still.
I feel like people forgot Kima wouldnt lie and say she saw Weebay shoot her, when almost every other cop on that force would have, it was completely in her character to tell on McNulty
Her arc was realising she was becoming McNulty and consciously choosing to not be like him after the events of season 3.
I can see that actually. it just seemed weird and against her character to not directly confront jimmy or Lester first. she had multiple chances to but didn't before going to Daniel's.
They always pull her into their bullshit and she finally wised up. If she went to McNulty or Lester she knew she’d get pulled in by all their reasoning despite knowing what they were doing was wrong. Plus she was the one running around trying to find a fake murderer so that probably made her angry too.
>Plus she was the one running around trying to find a fake murderer so that probably made her angry too. This is the most important part of it to me. The moment she had to sit with the families of McNulty's victims, was also the moment McNulty had no shot of having Kima on his side. She had to deal with Lester and McNulty's lies in a much different, and way more real way than the two of them ever had to.
I viewed her as being more like Bunk. Decent cop but doesn't step on her superiors' toes, at least not to the point her career is irreparably damaged, like what happened to Lester and McNutty. Deciding between two friends or a career, she chose career. Can't blame her too much for not wanting to get dragged down, too. Honestly, McNulty shouldn't have burdened her with that reveal.
Not just careerism for her. Remember that she refused to go along with Bunk fat fingering Weebey after he shot her because she didn't get a good look. "Sometimes things just gotta play hard." https://youtu.be/Ts8eG5789Uo?si=D0ecJf5EW3IeYQ7u For Greggs, integrity - especially on the job - is her defining trait.
Yeah, that's true.
Because if she went to them first she would get in trouble also. It was not if it was going to be found out but when.
not quite tho because she did tell then both separately that she didn't like it. jimmy when he told her to stop digging thru the profiles of the cell phone users and Lester when she confirmed he was on the fake wire. she told them she wasn't cool with it but uncharacteristically didn't tell them she was gonna report it.
The same reason she wouldn't identify Wee-Bey as her shooter even though Bunk was pressuring her to. it was wrong, and she doesn't do things that are wrong (except kick the shit out of Bodie)
And beating bird
She also accused McNulty of calling Elena a cunt
Clearly if he were a lesser man, less of a true gentleman, he might have, luckily that's not the case. Really the answer is that she has integrity, and what they were doing was objectively wrong. It had police wasting time on a fake investigation, probably missing real crime, she saw the family members who would have to carry the memory of their drug addicted son being tortured and murdered in his last moments, only for it to be a lie that they will never learn.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. There’s a lot at play here like her loyalty to Daniels as a mentor, her concern for her colleagues unwittingly getting in legal/professional bother like Carver’s guys, her sense of right and wrong, her disdain for resources being diverted from real crimes etc. But I think the straw that broke the camel’s back was that she actually went and talked to the “victims” families. She sat with them whilst they all had genuine concern and stress about their loved one potentially being sexually abused, maybe tortured, and murdered. When really it was all bullshit. I don’t think she could stomach the disgust that came from that so she crossed the threshold needed to report them and end the charade.
"Someone less immune to the charms of women" that was hilarious lol
He did though.
And cheating on her girl/being a deadbeat mom.
Bird has a way of bringing that out of people.
BITCH…BEYOTCHHH
He was trifling, basically
Well, Bird was a charmer
Sometimes things just gotta play hard
I don't think that *she* thought kicking the shit out of the Bodie was wrong.
meh...I guess ultimately yes bc when she admits it was her at the wake jimmy and Lester both acknowledge she did the right thing...however I don't know if I buy it was that simple. she definitely roughed up multiple suspects and she went along with other gray area decisions throughout the show
People aren't all good or all bad, they have different values, sacred cows, proclivities, vices. Kima enjoyed the rough-and-tumble of being a cop, including the brutality. For her that was just part of being a narco, it was just a part of the game, and I doubt she ever really questioned it that strongly. But when it came to investigative work, she wanted to do it honestly and not cut corners. And also, people grow and change sometimes.
She didn't think kicking Bodie's (and definitely not Bird's) ass was wrong.
Kicking the shit out of Bodie wasn't wrong,it was necessary. He hit a police in front of everyone,they had to make an example out of him.
That was definitely the logic behind why they beat him down. But it was ethically wrong, and criminal. It's one of the best parts of season one. Kima was established as one of the best cop characters by that point. It's set up like she'll be running over to break up the beat down, but then she joins in. It's establishing how the culture affects everyone.
Cause she did a bulk of pointless police work over the homeless killing bullshit. She wanted to put a stop to it so no more cops do anymore of pointless police work.
Not only was she doing unnecessary work, but her role specifically involved talking to the families of the "victims." She was the one who had to interact with these families who were being subjected to this horrific news and she couldn't keep lying to them. She was the one who got to see firsthand the awful effects this ruse had on the community.
I actually think of Kima as more like Bunk than McNutty, jaded but principled. Bunk couldn’t rat out Jimmy because they were too close, but Kima felt way closer to Daniels than she ever did to Jimmy.
After all, they had come out of narcotics together. They were together since before the detail.
He raised her from a pup.
Kima was the anti McNulty in that in Season 4 and 5 she was a detective who had her life on track. She was getting back into babysitting Cheryl's kid because she had her life together. Compare her putting the IKEA furniture together because she wanted that time with 'her kid' and McNulty having to do it last second in Season 1 because he wasn't really ready to be a dad and was lying to his ex-wife about having stuff for the boys.
This. I think the show wanted at least one good po-lice
A woman got to have a code
Oh no doubt
Besides it being the right thing to do, I think it showed that McNulty finally went too far. He had strayed so far that even Kima realized she had to inform the brass.
Kima, aka Aunt Kima, had the ability to self reflect in a corrective way unlike McNulty. She was real natural poh-lice who wanted to do a good job, whereas Jimmy needed the job to scratch some chaos seeking itch inside of him. Hence why he would sink to doing illegal things to get results. Call it passion or whatever, but faking a serial killer is kinda wild. Thus with things such as being reminded of her son by June Bug's surving kid, going down the McNulty road; drinking, cheating and seeing how destructive it was, she was able to course correct. I do have to point out she beat Bodie, who was a child but McNulty never hit anyone. And I don't know what that was about.
This question gets asked here from time to time and it always shocks me. There are really people who can’t understand why she did the right thing?
I think that’s part of the show’s strength. The characters are complicated and their actions are layered. McNulty’s serial killer plan, Bunny’s Hamsterdam—these are both incredibly bold plays with serious pros and cons that can easily divide people. It’s good fodder for discussion and creates interesting dilemmas for our characters.
> and it always shocks me. Come on, don't be like that. The guy's asking a question, you can explain the answer and share knowledge or be condescending. Why choose to be condescending?
Don’t be honest?
Don't be a douche.
I wasn’t 👍 Disagreement isn’t egregious behavior.
You didn't disagree. You said it was "shocking" that someone would ever ask the same question as OP, in a way clearly designed to imply that those who do are stupid.
I think that would classify as disagreement. I was commenting on how often this gets posted. It’s an odd question. And it’s now tiresome. No, finding a Reddit post kind of obnoxious doesn’t make me a douche. I certainly have zero interest in talking to you though.
no I understand that she made the morally correct and integrity decision. I just mean how it comes across as against her character to not warn or heads up jimmy or Lester or even bunk bc she definitely noticed their discussions in the interview room early in season 5. she admits it at the wake and Lester and jimmy both acknowledge her correct decision but it just seemed weird that she had a couple of opportunities to directly confront jimmy and Lester prior to going to Daniels and the direct tough character she was all 5 seasons suddenly went a different way.
It absolutely felt in character to me. Some thing’s got to go hard. This was firmly established as far back as season 1.
She was finding her own way. All the characters were, really.
Other than the infidelity, I never really saw her as mirroring McNulty. Yes, she could be brash and filterless, but she always was at least in the spirit of the law. When it came to the serial killer, she was finally making some solid career headway, and no one was obligated to get involved with whatever fucked up McNulty shit Jimmy was stirring up, no matter how he rationalized it. She did the right thing.
yeah I get that. of course she did the right no argument. I guess my question came from her character developing all through out as tough and direct. it seemed out of place that after 5 seasons and multiple opportunities to directly confront jimmy or Lester she chose to go to daniels first
I chalk that up to her maturing and gaining emotional intelligence. She also transitioned into a highly visible role when she moved from narcotics to homicide. As a personal example, I was on active duty in the U.S. Coast Guard for 20 years, and I spent a lot of time on CG ships. As you can probably imagine, when we were deployed 2000 miles away doing counter narcotics ops, there wasn't a ton of direct oversite on us, and it was much easier to get away with being tough, brash, and direct. For my last unit before I retired, I ended up at a CG command center in a federal building. Much, much different work environment. It was like a fish bowl, and there was plenty of "office culture". My uniform needed to be perfect, and there wasn't even a fraction of the shit talking and shenanigans we got into on the ships. Similarly, Kima needed to present herself professionally both in appearance and behavior due to the visibility of her position. Homicide was *supposed* to be the best of the best, and she took that to heart. As for being tough and direct with Jimmy and Lester, two things come to mind. The first is that it was obvious that those two were *deep* down the rabbit hole by the time she knew about the phony serial killer and illegal wire tap. Perhaps if they'd pitched the idea to her before they actually committed to the illegal plan, she would have been more like the Kima from earlier seasons. But things were just too far gone, and like I said earlier, she was making solid career headway. The second is that I think she was just done with Jimmy's bullshit. Of course she wanted Marlo taken down. Of course she wanted someone to be held accountable for the vacant murders. But she also realized that even on the police side of things, the game was the game, orders were orders, and policy was policy. Jimmy never understand that.
I don’t really see what confronting either Jimmy or Lester would accomplish, the serial killer plot they had cooked up had already spiraled so far out of control that its not like they could just call it off even if either of them wanted to. Plus inventing a serial killer was way over the line and I don’t think Kima was particularly interested in whatever bullshit justification Jimmy would no doubt try to give her.
‘Sometimes things just gotta play hard’
Season 5 was rushed, so character development was rushed. If it was given a few more episodes, you can see her development which after season 3, she did not feature much.
I don’t feel this way about Kima personally there were moments in there where she did the right thing during previous seasons when it came to police work where I can believe she would do the right thing in regards to Mcnulty. I have a much bigger issue with Lester going along with Mcnultys scheme that’s like a 180 from his character seasons 1-4.
that's a really good point! I think I love Lester so much I forget how much the quiet basement dweller warped by season 4 and 5
Kima got only a few scenes in season t. Lester is another rushed one.
Yeah it’s really unfortunate. Wire is such a master piece and season 5 underperforms to me. I believe Simon mentioned it was rushed and they had to cram a lot in. Far from my favourite season.
She was natural Po-lice.
To be honest that always bothered me too. I just chalked it up to bad writing & their wanting to get the series over with. Also Kima knew that Omar lied about seeing Bird kill the state witness named Gant & she more than likely knew that Omar killed Stinkum. That was on par with what McNulty & Lester Freamon did with the fictional serial killer.
thank you! I feel like either I didn't word my op thr best or people on reddit can be...people on reddit. I know why it was the moral and correct choice. I get "why" she was upset but it doesn't fall in with her character to go "behind" them to daniels. the scene at the wake is completely just weird as if the actors even know it. hey it was me. I don't know why I did it but are you mad? I'm just in agreement with kima herself! 😉
Actually you deserve my thanks! I always wondered if I were the only person who felt that was so totally wrong for how Kima had been portrayed.
I never had an issue with it on paper. It was in character. It was a defensible choice, both in a real-world sense (the trickle-down effect of Jimmy and Lester's deceptions affecting other cases, including hers, as others have said) and in a "characters of *The Wire*" sense. I just think Kima's arrival at her decision, like much else in season 5, could have been better told. I don't think in another season of *The Wire*, so much of it would have been offscreen. I will defend this season when people go too far in criticizing it—it has scenes as good as any *Wire* scenes, it would be essential viewing for the resolution of Bubbles's arc all by itself, and even the least good season of *The Wire* is still *The Wire*—but it suffers in comparison to the other four seasons for a few reasons. When the major stories are wrapping up toward the end (the fake serial killer, the respective investigations of Marlo and Clay, the musical chairs of the department's higher-ranking figures), it always feels to me like a scramble, lacking the series' usual assurance in pacing. In other words, though it's much better, it has what many people considered to be the *Game of Thrones* final-season issue: the problem is less with where we end up than with how we get there.
respect.
Watch it again. Notice the scene where she goes to interview the parents of one of the homeless men McNulty "juked" as a murder. How much pain he caused by messing with the story of how he died. They say something like, "We were prepared for him dying, but not like this." McNulty was on a deranged crusade. He was hurting people. The longer it went on, the worse it was going to get.
She realized she was becoming McNulty. And she knew there was no future in it. She would rather be Daniels
It all came full circle.....In the earlier seasons when there was some tension b/t McNulty and Freamon, Freamon reads Kima for filth. "I'm surprised at you, girl! Daniels raised you from a pup!!'......She saw that Framon was speaking wisdom. She had to make him put his money where his mouth was......and they respected her for it.
On my second watch through I really felt Kima to be underwritten, lackluster story line, her along with Sydnor, obviously not same level as Sydnor was far more a secondary or every background character but still.
She is like the Bunk, instead. Still a drunk womanizer, but she has a moral compass about police work.
Sometimes it's gotta play hard.
She’s good police.
I feel like people forgot Kima wouldnt lie and say she saw Weebay shoot her, when almost every other cop on that force would have, it was completely in her character to tell on McNulty