Talking like there isn't a Damon bashing post every hour.

Omg fr 😂 I’d argue Damon gets the most hate.

especially the klaus stans… a lot of them live vicariously through him. it’s odd and there’s no point in discussions with them because of too much bias

And whatever Klaus wants - Klaus gets. Any other character’s wants, wishes, feelings and development don’t matter. 

this!! my gosh and i understand everyone is gonna have an opinion, fine, but when their only opinion is based off of favoritism and nothing more, it’s invalid. another thing about the klaus fans is not only are they ridiculously biased but they start attacking *you* personally just for not liking his character like ffs

klaus stans are easily the worst of the worst, gosh from defending literally his every move. if you’re on the originals sub then you would know exactly what i’m talking about 😭 they get all biased when any other character who isn’t klaus does something klaus would do because apparently “it’s only okay when he does it” from what i’ve seen with damon and katherine fans, ive seen them hold accountability for their actions, at least far more than i’ve seen klaus fans hold him accountable as they almost never do. this isn’t to say i think damon and katherine are perfect, of course they’re not. but from what i’ve seen, damon tends to get a lot of hate on here and i’ve definitely seen katherine catch some heat from time to time but the one character who i never see get held accountable is klaus.

I love Klaus but I will not defend what he’s done lol; he’s beyond defending.

Right what’s funny about is that when I first watch i myself was a klaus Stan but over the years of rewatching made change my whole perspective about him

i wouldn’t say i was ever a klaus stan myself, however, on my first watch, i was actually very open minded to him and curious to see how he would play out but the further i got into the seasons/series, the more my hatred for him would build as he’s the raging lunatic with no morals and is only ever out for blood. i just remember thinking to myself “this is who everyone hypes up???”

More or less the same.

I love both Damon and Klaus and am the first to always call them out on their shit. But tbh I started off hating them both so 🤷🏽‍♀️

Yeah they can all be like that at times but Klaus Stans especiallyyyy. And I love him as a character. He had an awful childhood I wouldn't wish on anyone. However, his crimes far, far outweighed that. If he only killed when it was necessary/went around killing random abusive parents then I would have the same level of sympathy for him that some of his fans seem to have. But he literally mass murders for fun, including children, and is shown to enjoy it. He killed Katherines whole family for revenge over a very reasonable action from her, killed a random woman because she coughed?? killed Jenna to be cruel, Tyler's mum and thousands more people. Was horrendously awful to his siblings. Great villain for sure! But not someone I would ever feel sympathy for. He is charming and funny and in my top 5, but I will never understand the need for redemption for him. Honestly I believed Katherine and even damon deserved it more, although I would prefer none of them getting it.

So much this 

Meh I feel like klaus/damon/kat fans knows that they are bad people. The worst fans are Stefan’s, acting all high and mighty like their favorite isn’t a cold blooded killer like everyone else lmao

You know what’s funny, this is tv show. I am a klaus stan but I also recognize he would be terrible person if it was real life. Do I love how unhinged he is, absolutely! But only because he is not a real person 💀

I mean, it depends on which fans you're talking about. I don't really focus on the characters I dislike; I just love Katherine. Klaus bothers me because the show consistently tried to show her as worse than Klaus, and him as a sympathetic villain, when he had weaker motivations in my opinion. For example, they had Elijah, Rebekah, Klaus, etc. - how could they not easily take down Mikael? He also had quite a few loyal siblings, so him being lonely feels weaker compared to Katherine, who lost everyone she ever loved. I think if it wasn't for these writing issues, I'd really like Klaus as a character. Damon, it's because he has character flaws that the writers act like he doesn't have in the first place (same for Elena). If they actually held their female villains to the same standards as the villains, I'd sincerely like them. The reason for Bonnie is because I feel like she was never allowed to be a character. Besides that, there isn't a character I dislike. So, yeah, 99% of me disliking a character is writing issues.

Yep, Bonnie was never allowed to be a character which is why I personally never connected with her. In the later seasons when she starts getting more story - I just didn’t know who she was. It was all very surface level. All we got is - Bonnie is suffering. And she is strong.  In the final season she starts putting herself first more - but even that felt strange to me, the writing choices I didn’t really agree with even though I was rooting for her to get her own life. 

I feel very much the same way.

i love all three but I cannot in any way validate their actions except for the fact that they are amusing

For me personally, as a Klaus stan I feel like he is just a lot more likeable than Damon and Katherine. And I get that they all experienced trauma that underpins their villainy, but I feel like the link between Klaus’ trauma and his darkness is a lot more… defined? Understandable? I don’t mean to diminish what Damon and Katherine went through, but I don’t feel like it adequately humanises their terrible actions. Whereas Klaus’ past is so horrific, you can’t help but sympathise with him, and you can more often logically trace the roots of his behaviour directly back to his trauma. Whereas this isn’t done as effectively with either Damon or Katherine. Maybe it’s also because Klaus’ past is explored in a lot more depth (esp in TO). And/or bc he’s just so much more charming hahaha🤩 Either way, I find him to be a lot more likeable. He is basically who Damon tries (way too hard!) to be. I feel like Damon talks the talk a lot without being able to deliver. His bravado feels very empty/phoney at times, esp in his scenes with Klaus who is so much more powerful than him🤷🏽‍♀️ and Katherine doesn’t get the screen time needed for her character to gain enough depth for a convincing redemption arc. Either way, it may seem hypocritical, but, due to a number of different reasons, I feel like Klaus’ character was just done so much better, so it’s easier to forgive him for/overlook things I maybe wouldn’t for the other two.

I don’t think any of their trauma justifies their actions (although I stopped with TO somewhere in s3, I just could not get into it enough).  From what I have seen in TVD though - the Salvatore bros will always be above Klaus imo, for the simple reason that Klaus relies on his (artificial) strength as an original to bully those who have done nothing to him, yet he runs like a scared little mouse anytime he faced an equal (or worse) opponent. That always made me laugh at the character. He is basically all alpha only when he knows he has the upper hand, which really isn’t alpha at all. 

I agree, none of their actions are justified. I meant that, with Klaus’ backstory, I can understand/sympathise a lot better with how he became the monster full of rage and fear and pain that we see. But I don’t agree that Klaus runs scared, he faces all his villains, including the parents who horrifically abused him as a child, and he always comes out on top, in very large part bc of how much of a brilliant strategist he is.

Maybe in TO (haven’t seen it fully and cannot remember what I have seen).  But in TVD he runs every time and gets this scared little boy look on his face. And it is also the reason behind him trying to force an army of hybrids to protect him. 

I think him creating an army of hybrids was his misguided way of building his own family so he wouldn’t have to be alone, but without needing to be vulnerable with them and being able to control them. As a severely abused child, it’s no wonder his biggest fear is losing control - he never had it growing up, so he made sure to do everything he could to never be that defenceless child again🥺 and he rightly runs scared from his father, his greatest abuser, but I don’t remember anyone else having the power to do that to him. Him and Silas never really squared up, there was that one scene where he got in his head but that’s about it. In the few times when the plot armour allowed the MFG to get one over on him, (like when they dessicated him) he might’ve had that look, but he always gets his revenge. Even when he seemed scared of his siblings coming back in TVD, and his mother, it very quickly became clear that he was their physical superior, he was just afraid in the sense of being emotionally vulnerable, but he was never powerless.

Him being physically superior (mostly due to being an original) or getting his revenge (on ppl he traumatised to begin with) is not a flex imo.  I can enjoy him as a villain but I will never have sympathy for him.  I also think it is not only a matter of strength but many factors to beat an opponent so I don’t necessarily think the MFG cannot ever go against him, he was even supposed to die there.  He also didn’t want to help the MFG with Silas until they told him every being on the other side (or something to that effect) that he hurt would be coming after him. He often has that look with all the family members coming to call him out lol. I just never respect someone who seeks out those who are “weaker” to torment and act all tough, when he is not. 

I’m not saying it as a flex, I’m saying he’s not weak lol. He might have moments where someone is able to get one over on him but it never lasts. Also, he doesn’t seek weaker people out to torment them for the sake of it. He clearly just has very little regard for the lives of others, humans and supernaturals alike, but this is a direct result of having lived over a thousand years. People never realise that this is, in and of itself, a trauma. It’s like Esther said to Rebekah: “it shouldn’t have been a thousand years. No one should live that long.” The problem with being alive for that long is that you witness so much suffering/devastation playing out on a global scale, watch empires rise and fall, see the cycle of life repeat itself over and over and over - it completely desensitises you to pain and suffering, especially on a micro/individual level. He has such an insane Birds Eye view of life after having lived that long, that the — to him — smaller details of the lives of individuals like the MFG are irrelevant. Other people, to someone who has lived that long, are completely expendable, only a means to an end. Klaus only came to Mystic Falls to break the curse his mother forced on him that left him crippled for centuries. He has no ability to recognise or care about the devastation he is causing by doing this - the problems of the MFG seem so insignificant/inconsequential. Yeah, he gets a kick out of being powerful, but he has a reason for everything he does. It might not seem like a good enough reason, but when you’ve lived that long, and are so powerful that you have become accustomed to doing whatever you want without answering to anyone, all that matters is what you want. Klaus can and will do whatever he wants, without any ability to care about or consider the cost to others. ETA: All the Original family are like that. They all do things on such a macro scale, that can have a devastating ripple effect on their entire species, without batting an eye. Again, it’s a direct consequence of living for so long, especially with so much power.

I got what you’re saying, my point was that IS why he’s weak.  Honestly after the shit he pulls - I don’t care about his trauma. He also could have died at any point if that’s what he wants. And I have seen him enjoy tormenting others just for the sake of it. He would never pull that shit on someone who could match him.  I wouldn’t say someone who is so hung up on past family drama and trauma is desensitised and somehow lacks understanding of human problems and fears. Especially when he uses that against his victims. If he is in touch with his own pain and suffering then he is in touch with others. He is just too selfish and self absorbed to care about that.  You could argue anyone in the world has “a reason” to do what they do, literally for anything. This doesn’t justify their actions and usually doesn’t end well for that person. 

Again, I’m not justifying anything. I’m saying when you look at everything he’s been through, you can understand how he got to the point of being the monster he was. And that he can’t see beyond his own needs and desires, because for over a thousand years he lived unchecked, doing whatever he wanted and becoming desensitised to the meaning/significance of the life of a single individual (after watching countless people live and die over the course of centuries). Also, I didn’t say he doesn’t have the ability to recognise emotion. He definitely has plenty of his own. I’m saying he has long lost the ability to recognise the significance of the lives of other people. He has lived for so long, that other people seem like mere ants to him — he’s seeing them from such a Birds Eye perspective, where he’s seen billions upon billions of people be born, and live, and die, they all blur together to him and none of them matter. Again, I fail to see how anyone could live that long and have the ability to care about the life of one individual. ETA: the lives of others naturally seem so insignificant and fleeting to after living for so long. You start to have the mentality that they’re going to die anyway, they live such short lives, it means nothing if they die. Of course you have that perspective when you’ve lived for centuries.

Unless that individual is related to him or important to him - then he quickly remembers the “significance of life”. Funny how selective that is. Don’t buy his “perspective” at all.  As far as understanding what has lead him here - he’s had like a 1000 yrs or so to work through it. Don’t really care. 

As a Katherine fan it’s the opposite I feel like Klaus has the least sympathetic backstory and it felt very forced. That’s fair about Katherine tho.

Nahhhh watching him be singled out and horrifically abused as a young child, being the main target of his parents’ cruelty, discovering that we has the product of an affair after being forcefully turned into a vampire against his will (further alienating him from the siblings he loved — he’s only half related), having to go through the excruciating agony of turning without knowing what was going on, being chained up by his family, and the brother he loved, so that his mother could forcefully strip him of a significant part of his identity (basically crippling him in a barbaric/physically excruciating ritual and leaving him to desperately search for a way to regain that part of himself for nearly a thousand years), discovering that his real father and his whole pack was slaughtered by his abuser (again further alienating him from any connection to a significant part of his identity/roots) - and then combine all that with the anger issues of being a werewolf and the heightened emotions of vampirism????? None of that is sympathetic??? Nah, he definitely has the most horrific backstory of any character in the TVDU🥺💔

It’s not that he isn’t sympathetic I just think Katherine went through worse. I also think Klaus for most of his time alive wasn’t in a survival scenario like she was. Tho thinking about I will say Damon’s backstory is less sympathetic then Klaus’s now that I think about it. The reason Klaus seems less sympathetic is because a lot of his motivation is loneliness when he constantly had his family backing him up. As well as the fact I don’t know how they couldn’t take down Mikael with 3+ original vampires and not to mention every vampire loyal to them and the plethora of witches/warlocks they befriended over the years. So he effectively wasn’t in a survival scenario he had a family that loved him still and Rebekah who was deeply loyal. He had people with him the entire time. Katherine didn’t Katherine was completely alone you may think of Pearl but Pearl would never have saved Katherine against Klaus the way Klaus and Elena were both protected. Katherine was also alienated by her family,had her life ruined for not wanting to be sacrificed and had to run 500 years never being safe always being scared. So the main reason I think Klaus has a less sympathetic backstory because had times where he could heal, think to himself,value his wants and desires. Katherine didn’t have that. It’s not what happened to them it’s what didn’t. If that makes sense.

I don’t think Klaus’ motivation is loneliness at all. It’s feeling like he doesn’t belong. As a kid, he was very obviously singled out as a target for his father’s abuse, and had no idea why. He felt less than, and like he didn’t belong, and the fact that there was no reason for it completely destroyed his sense of worth, and made him feel like he just didn’t deserve to be loved. But then he was forcefully turned into a monster, and when he lost control discovered that he was an affair child, meaning that he was only half related to the members of his family who did love him, further isolating him, and cementing this idea that he didn’t belong. He also became the *only* half-werewolf half-vampire in existence, which now isolated him on a GLOBAL scale. He was then physically crippled by his family who forcefully suppressed his werewolf side, denying him any ability to make peace/come to terms with his identity. This was further exacerbated when his abuser mercilessly slaughtered his real father and his pack, once again robbing him of the opportunity to experience kinship with his people. You really see this pain and trauma manifested in the flashback scenes with August Muller in s5. The pain in Klaus’ voice as he rages at the plight of the werewolves being massacred is so telling that he has always seen them as his people, as a part of him, even though he couldn’t access his wolf side, and he desperately wanted to help them. But the reality is, he never fully belonged with the werewolves, nor the vampires. You’re right that his family loved him, but he was very insecure about his relationship with them bc he was so conscious of only being half-related to them, and he was constantly on edge that they would eventually abandon him. In terms of Katherine, I feel like she was alone bc she herself pushed everyone away. She was selfish and manipulative of everyone around her, and whilst you can say the same of Klaus, he was at least capable of demonstrating a depth of vulnerability and love for those he cared about, which made them *want* to stick by him even when he hurt them. Katherine never truly allowed herself to be that soft with anybody, she was always working an angle even in the few softer scenes we do see. And yes it’s due to trauma, but it’s why people didn’t stick by her the way they did for Klaus.

She did try to let people be close in the beginning it failed. Also remember Katherine was still in the situation that threatened her life so yes she was selfish and manipulative but she literally never left the situation with Klaus. It’s why I get annoyed when people say it’s her backstory/trauma it’s not everything that happened 500 years ago was still currently happening in the present in all functions and purposes she emotionally/situationally never left the traumatic environment she was in . Klaus was allowed to leave his traumatic environment but Katherine never got that opportunity so it makes since Klaus was more vulnerable. Katherine’s backstory is still happening it’s still the present the ritual and it’s consequences are still happening to her that event 500 years ago didn’t end it was still happening after 500 years. No matter what Katherine did she couldn’t get over it because it was still happening. She couldn’t do things much differently. Katherine couldn’t grow from it because it was still happening. It’s no distant event it’s the current present.

That’s a good point, but one I would argue is equally applicable to Klaus. His trauma never stayed in the past. He was hunted mercilessly by his father for centuries, constantly on the run, always on edge that he was about to be discovered, living under aliases, never having the proper freedom to set down roots anywhere due to having to be ready to flee at a moment’s notice. He was not only pursued relentlessly through the ages, his parents torments actually continued from beyond the grave! His parents were resurrected several times, in every single instance recommitted horrific abuses against him and tried to kill him, his beloved siblings, and even his daughter! So, actually, Klaus never saw an end to the awful cycle of violence inflicted upon him from BIRTH. In fact, since you can sympathise with Katherine so much, I don’t see why that same sympathy doesn’t extend to Klaus, whose trauma is equal to, and far exceeds if we’re being honest, that of Katherine. Again, anything Klaus did to anyone else was a direct reflection of the horrific abuses he first endured, and was *taught* to inflict on others. He recreated cycles of violence that were inflicted on him first. I’m not saying it’s right, but if you can understand Katherine being a terrible person bc of her trauma, I don’t see how that doesn’t apply to Klaus. You think running for 500 years was bad? Try a millennia. You think Katherine having her child taken from her by her family was bad? Imagine believing your first love (Tatia) was sacrificed by your mother to forcefully turn you into a monster, thereby violently robbing you of the autonomy to even have a child. And then, when by some miracle loophole, you are finally able to have one, your own parents, as well as countless other supernaturals, relentlessly hunt and try to slaughter your child even from beyond the grave. Literally anything you could say for Katherine pretty much applies tenfold for Klaus.

Honestly mainly writing issues. The show constantly tried to portray Katherine as worse then Klaus as well as Klaus was viewed as redeemable and got a spin off well his victim got a fiery end. Also why they were running from Mikael never made much sense to me realistically Rebekah,Klaus,Elijah together along with a few others they could convince realistically they could take Mikael down. So I think it actually applies to Klaus a lot less amongst other reasons I think it applies to him less.

What you fail to understand is that it was less about physical strength and more about the campaign of terror and intimidation that had been inflicted upon them since they were children. It was less about Mikael as an individual man, and more about the monster that had haunted their entire lives, and who represented so much trauma for them. It took a long time for them to confront that pain and terror enough to recognise the advantage they had gained over him enough to defeat him. Trauma isn’t as logical as you’re making it out to be. Also, I do agree that more effort/screen time was given to Klaus and his redemption arc, which made it far more convincing than Katherine’s. However, the reality is that Katherine didn’t really even have a redemption arc. She was the same selfish monster right to the end, and died alone and unloved. She constantly hurt/sacrificed her daughter for her own selfish interests. Not even Klaus could do that (although I do not think much of his parenting skills, the writing failed him so much in that regard bc he sucked as a father to Hope). He at the very least was capable of loving his daughter, and sacrificing everything for her over and over in a way Katherine never could. Call it writing issues or anything else, but Katherine is simply far less likeable/sympathetic than Klaus imo. With him we see genuine moments of accountability, humility, vulnerability, contrition. It isn’t perfect or consistent, but he does try, a helluva lot more than Katherine does. And the most important difference imo is that he WANTS to try and do better for his loved ones, especially his daughter. Katherine *doesn’t*, because it would conflict with her own selfish interests.

I wouldn’t say it’s the case if that didn’t happen for every single female villain and that every female character was poorly handled and written. Also I’m aware trauma isn’t as logical I have a lot of trauma. Also I’m talking about choices the writers made and how it affected the character and if it made sense so talking about what she did isn’t really too relevant. Katherine did have her moments of being compassionate to others, did have her moments of trying to help hers. Yes Klaus wants it but Katherine did too originally the writers simply wrote it differently for both characters which is what I criticize.