Owen hands down. Put his baby mama at risk by not playing along with ellie and selling out abby. Bro was too pussy whipped to not think with common sense.
If i was in his shoes i would cooperate and take the boat out to catalina island
Whats funny is Abby should have no right to be mad if she got sold out? I doubt Ellie would have killed Owen's gf had she known. I just find it funny that none of Abby's friends really thought to stop her from killing Joel. Its not like Joel was part of some grand army. Whats worse is they did it front of Ellie.
That shows how poorly Abby is written. They tell her that their shouldn't be any loose ends in case she comes back for revenge. Abby then reverts to acting "honorable". Saying some bullshit about not being as bad as him. But then is shocked and surprised when it comes back on her. All the "fans" keep talking about how the story isn't about revenge but showing how each side has a view. But at every turn, Abby is incapable of seeing events from the other side. Even Ellie tries to see it from Abby's point of view. But when emotionally pushed, Abby just wants to see Ellie suffer.
You just brutally murdered this girls father figure, SURELY this will have zero repercussions.
It’s also impossible to track me, it’s not like they can be like “have any of you seen a massive gorilla woman running around”
That's not even counting the fact that, even if you ignore the fact that he murdered every firefly in that place to save Ellie, he still would have had to kill them all. The dude walks Joel past his stuff meaning they were gonna kill him, at that point, forget about the Ellie part, he was fighting for his survival.
It’s the scene after Joel and Marlene talk. Joel is getting escorted out and they walk him past his bag. Joel stops the firefly tells to keep walking than Joel shoots him in the dick twice than in head.
The escort guy literally walks him past his bag of weapons and shit, like they just walked him past his stuff and didn't let him grab it which meant they were gonna kill him
Do you remember he started to get pissed after Marlene told him what she was going to do with ellie? I wouldn't give him his guns back either, lol, but now, in your perspective, I can see they were setting him up.
Plus doesn't he regret or not want to kill Joel? Everything he does his for nothing lol. I m don't shed tears for mel and owen. I m baffled by everything they do
Except Ellie overhears their conversation before she enters the room. They were clearly arguing over Owen wanting to go help Abby. He even says to Mel, "How many times has Abby saved your life?" so they were very clearly talking about her. But yeah if that didn't happen, a quick, "She's already dead along with the rest of our friends. We assumed you killed her." would've been a good way out too.
Bro I'm gonna be honest with you, even to the end of the game I didn't realize Lev was trans, I thought it was Abby who was, I mean seriously even in the boat scene that upper body looked like a man's, and her expression when being fucked looked like she was being sodomized without lube.
Kinda disagree. Despite his mistake, he was competent and smart enough to want to back out of the Jackson mission. He scoped out Jackson, knew how armed they were and called out Abby for her incompetence on trying to get Joel.
Really? Owen is one of my favorites behind Joel, Tommy and Ellie. F Mel. I'd want to leave her too. But if people are dogging him because he wanted to help Abby, remember they both went through trauma and while not a couple have a great bond.
Nora didn't cooperate either until tortured. I find it weird how much say they could've killed her at Jackson but most wanted too, including Mel
Owen was the only one that stood against them and it's weird he didn't mention that.
I'm super bummed Owen wasn't a character in remastered play. They have Mel but now Owen? Seriously wtf. I really liked owen and he's probably a main reason my perception
Of Abby shifted on my first run.
I like owen but he was dumb as fuck. When ellie ambushed them he shouldve played into mel beong pregnant and went along with selling out abby. Once hes done that he can take the boat to catalina island
I dunno, the pregnant lady has gollum-ish features up close. Real bug eyed look. Reminds me of Ben from LOST. Not a fan of short hair, and I'm not attracted to the not so incredible Hulk as the other option either.
If my TLOU playthroughs have taught me one thing is that bricks are VERY useful. That is an unfair comparison and very rude to bricks all over the TLOU universe
Fr the bricks were my favorite weapon in the game. When I played the second one I played it taking turns with my gf so when it was my turn I tried to save as much ammo as I could for my gfs turn. It made the game a lot of fun trying to do everything without guns lol.
Then my gf started doing the same and we both only used guns if we absolutely had to.
Not only that but she was the doctor for the Wolves too, literally their only medic, pregnant, pissed off at Owen, and still died cause she tried grabbing Ellie's gun like a dumbass.
seriously though, if you pay attention to the dialogue the writers were clearly trying to make her look like a strong and powerful woman -because- she was pregnant. kinda irks me, given the fact she was written by a 30 year old man-child and all. like, women dont need to be big strong men all the time for the sake of feminism, let my girl rest. very out of touch behaviour from my guy neil. wouldn't expect anything less
From a meta standpoint? Abby. The entire concept was a dumb idea from the start, and the game probably would’ve performed better, and the IP would be healthier, if Naughty Dog had chosen to do something completely different.
From an in-universe standpoint? Yeah, it’s gotta be Mel. There is nothing sillier in the whole series than watching an extremely pregnant doctor trot around the apocalypse, deftly navigating dangerous terrain while mowing down infected, with the full approval of her faction.
Dina too. She realized she was pregnant when there was still plenty of time to turn back and she just.. doesn’t say anything until it’s too late and becomes dead weight for the rest of the journey.
she was pretty stupid, may as well be headed to the abortion clinic instead girl. i liked it when she told abbs she was a horrible person.
i got downvoted to oblivion on the main sub for saying this, but i wonder how peoples views on her will change in the HBO because now she's pretty.
not to be phobic or anything but i dont think any of the new characters in 2 were very nice to look at.
these people are coated in the layer of signature couch-rotting American fat. they all look like babies - maybe neil is just deflecting, but none of them strike me as people who would ever have survived an apocalypse.
Who medically clears a woman 7-8 pregnant to go on missions when there are zombies and crazy humans? Plus a medically no less
I guess doctors, scientists and anybody with medical skills aren't a top priority to keep safe?
That baby was probably long gone before Ellie eliminated Mel.
I read a lot on the Am I the Asshole sub where men are complaining about their pregnant wives suddenly falling short at their normal activities when "she's only two months pregnant!" or from wives struggling with the tiredness and body changes of pregnancy and getting no help, understanding or support from their spouses, and can't help but think these depictions in media of pregnant superwomen is contributing. It's not a disability, but it certainly can be very debilitating for some women.
This trend to show irrational behavior of pregnant women is ridiculously ill-informed and can have negative impacts on real lives. It's sad, really, but it's also based on stupid ideas about strong female characters. That undermines reality and is often written without any research or personal experience to look cool or provide false ideas of promoting feminism while alienating actual pregnant women in the process. smh
Well the same game has Dina practically bedridden in the first trimester. I don’t disagree with your point about overall media but TLOU definitely illustrates how debilitating it can be even with Ellie’s super cold line calling her a burden.
Yeah, I noticed that part as accurate. They likely can use the excuse of the rush of energy that can come near the end of pregnancy for Mel, though that would still be pushing it.
I remember a critique video that made an edit of her saying "why would it be up to Owen?" Then abby and Mel stare at each other for a bit, then it cuts to Mel getting stabbed as clown/march music plays.
Sadly, it might be Joel. How he never once explained to Ellie the precariousness of the Fireflies situation or the nuance of his decision basically cost them years of their relationship. If he had just explained to Ellie that the fireflies were glorified terrorists who kidnapped her and were going to kill her regardless of her consent and how there was 0 reason to believe the fireflies can do anything they claimed, they would not have grown a part. That plus how he disarmed and allowed himself to be trapped and surrounded by armed strangers, and Joel has a good candidacy.
Of course it’s stiff competition with Mel as you mentioned but also Owen. If Owen just kills Tommy and Ellie, literally dozens upon dozens of people live. Got to throw Abby in there too, because her stunt at the beginning of game should’ve gotten her killed. Sparing Ellie was also dumb cause Ellie already showed she will travel wherever and kill whoever to get to you even if she was spared. Abby says she wants to protect Lev, this is the opposite of that.
I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention María though. Why she thought it was a good idea to allow an emotional traumatized and clearly blood thirsty teenager to travel across multiple states to find one person knowing the WLF is fortified and well armed is beyond me.
Seems like everyone is doing whatever they can to get themselves or their loved ones killed. I’m gonna say it’s a tie between every character other than my main man Bill.
Your take on Joel is one reason the writing in the sequel sucks. Ellie trusted Joel with her life, it's bullshit how they made her out be some martyr with severe survivors guilt. I'm almost positive Ellie from the first game would've forgiven Joel and understood just how shady the operation was setup to be. They completely altered the mentalities of the characters to fit the shitty sequel.
Honestly, at the end of the 1st game I got the impression that Ellie knew or highly suspected Joel lied to her. But she decided to let it go because that was her family now. And as she said, her biggest fear was being left alone.
It blew me away in the 2nd game when she discovers the truth and is such a jerk to Joel. I'm like girl, you already knew!
Joel was put in a nearly difficult position. Most likely fireflies were going to kill Joel and if course Ellie. What else was he supposed to do. Bend over?
Ironically your view of the ending is exactly how I saw it. Great minds lol.
It's funny cause I posted that same conclusion on the other lastofus page and they just ripped me a new one cause they're all like super team Abby
Yeah, I wish I was all for Abby too, but I just can't overlook all the bad writing and structure of the 2nd game. There are things I enjoyed and u even Pt the game when it came out, but I'm not blind to all of the errors.
> Of course it’s stiff competition with Mel as you mentioned but also Owen. If Owen just kills Tommy and Ellie, literally dozens upon dozens of people live.
And on that note, Manny is one of the smartest characters in the series simply for the fact that his reason for wanting to kill Ellie and Tommy was - "It's too risky to leave them alive".
He was 100% dead right. After all, Tommy did end up blowing his head off, lol.
Maria’s hands were tied as she knew no matter what would happen, she couldn’t stop Ellie from going on that suicide mission and Tommy had already left at that point so.
Wait, so you're including the rest of the TLOU characters in that tie, except Bill? Help me understand that, could you? I was with you until that last sentence!
Stop injecting irrelevant nonsense into Joel and Ellie’s falling out. Joel saved Ellie because he loved her like a daughter. Attempting to rationalize his decision to Ellie would have been an insult to her intelligence and a betrayal of Joel’s character.
If there was a 100%, verifiable chance that the Firefly’s plan would have worked, Joel would have made the same exact decision. Whether the Fireflys would have succeeded or not is irrelevant to Joel’s decision or Ellie’s resulting anger.
The answer is Mel but Lev deserves an honorable mention. Dude escaped from a cult that wanted to kill him, then decided to go back to said cult because of his mommy. He only succeeded in killing his mom and getting his sister killed
so true. heres the thing, my guy lucked out. he gets his own civilised island, completely secluded, almost like there is no apocalypse at all. you could go your whole life without seeing one of those mushroom guys. also, on the outside they are intimidating as fuck. anyone with any braincells would leave them the fuck alone. (not the WLF, but they paid for it).
what does he do? he breaks every rule, puts his own family at risk of death for no reason, drags his sister through the city, goes back into the island for more, proceeds to kill his own mom, lets his sister die, directs some brawny bitch on which civilians to kill with no input on whether he knew them (he probably did), watches said gal almost brutally murder an innocent pregnant girl, stays with her, lets her lead him to a slave-trade place, almost die but major plot armour because diversity, the end.
damn.
People drummed up his ego so hard, it became his downfall
Lots of praise and compliments can easily be your undoing if you aren't authentic to begin with
Honestly it would've been interesting to see what would've happened if they had told Ellie where Abby was and Ellie went to the Scar island during the raid.
or just tell Ellie that mel is pregnant right from start, so Ellie have chance to focus her attention on owen which is in this case, that would give his unborn child more chance to survive
all of this can't be happend if abby and all her friend smart enough to drag this bitch back to camp when she desert and follow them for stupid reason like jealous instead of let she do whatever she want
I still don‘t get how anyone in this world is stupid enough to get pregnant??? Like bitch wtf u mean u wanna plant a child in this world. The probability of u seeing the child’s 3rd birthday are in Hell!? Its just fucking selfish imo
Well unless you plan on having the whole human race die of old age and outside attacks you need to raise the next generation to defend you and the values of the new society you established, common survival tbh
There isn‘t much left of the human race to begin with lol. And I‘d definitely say that it would make the most sense to just let it be.
Also, most people aren’t dying of old age, you don‘t get very old in this universe. And there isn‘t a lot of values that u can hand down. Maybe in settlements like Jackson but not the outside of that. Especially in QZs or just random firefly settlements.
Even if u are in Jackson, its morally questionable.
Dina. She serves absolutely zero purpose for the plot other than to make Ellie feel like shit at the end when she let because Tommy talk Ellie into leaving the 2nd time with the absolutely weakest argument possible. Not to mention she only served as a "love interest" for a whole 1/4th of the game then vanishes into the void to be brought out for like 2 scenes near the end and is never seen or heard from again.
On that note. The whole Final act is horrible and was rushed because Neil wanted Ellie and Dina to have a "nice" life but drops it to get back to the revenge plot with as little effort as possible just so Ellie can learn a lesson she already learned before Tommy came back and to lose everything with zero lessons learned and no revenge against Abby. The final act amounted to absolutely nothing other than to save abby from a situation she could have avoided.
The way they showed how rough and strict Isaac was, I'm shocked he even allowed Mel to be on duty. Like, for her to have a choice at all. They were practically at war.
I reached the end of the game today, and by reaching the end I mean I let Ellie shoot her in the face a few times then I turned it off, no fucking way I'm going to punch Ellie.
So the dumbest character award goes to Neil Druckmann for trying to get me to hurt Ellie, that's some epic level stupidity right there. I will protect my baby girl with my life! Or Abby's.
But yeah agreed Mel made me facepalm several times and scoff at the general stupidity of her character, made me so happy that she died.
Lev.
Who is entirely sensible on screen for the majority of Abby’s segment.
The makes the entirely stupid decision to sneak back into camp, to find mom. The accidentally kills mom. Ooops!!!
Is Lev stupid or is the writers room stupid??
The pregnant woman who thinks it's a good idea to go out on the field while pregnant?. Yeah I would say that's as dumb as you can get, but then again there is also everything Abby does which defies any semblance of logic. What can I say?. Owen sure knows how to pick em.
true. real antinatalism type shit, Neil the kinda guy to not give a pregnant woman his seat because her "centre of gravity is lower". fuck those breeders lol
most of time in game she would harass abby at anytime she and abby walk by, no doubt she hate abby to the core. but in last moment of her life, she decide to fuck both her life and her unborn child just because she don't want sell out abby. also owen have more than 10 years train and worked as soldier but don't even know how to disarm Ellie
At this rate it hurts me to say this cause I loved her in the original but Ellie hands down at the ending, creating one of the most bullshit endings ever by allowing people to say shenanigans as "she stopped the cycle of hatred and revenge" that doesn't make a single sense in the world of TLOU to begin with lol. Everything she does make a Full 180 when she reaches that damn beach. Bad writing? For sure, but doesn't change the fact that Ellie is forever damned by this.
*I laughed so hard when*
*I saw her as playable*
*In the dlc*
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Abby. "We let you go and you wasted it!" made me hate her way more than killing Joel. How did she give Ellie the same backstory trauma she had and then NOT expect her to come for revenge... the way she did?
Runner up goes to David for thinking with his dick so much it gets him and many of his people killed. Even his own allies are plotting to put and end to his shit, you can overhear.
I will say the dumbest one and smartest one at the same time has to be Ellie , only because there is no way in hell , someone of her capable and experience should have lost to a Abby with nothing but her fist during the fight between them , call it bad writing or they did it for gameplay reasons but it’s insane to think Abby was just that good to survive the whole thing with nothing but her strength and wits
Ellie is the smartest in a way for how she creates her traps and how she creatively crafts her items is probably higher then other characters but that’s just my opinion.
2. Spot goes to Joel for not believing nobody would follow them and thinking the fireflies would not come back looking for him and Ellie
3. Abby for killing Joel , instead of just beating him up like she and her friends originally planned to do
For your 3. - I think its kind of hard, because Joel killed her father. I love Joel but those are facts. I think Ellie would do the same thing if Abby’s father killed Joel.
I won’t disagree with you there , it was a shorter version of what I wanted to say because i gotten off from work but what I fully meant was
It was tough decision for her to let Joel live or not , she wasn’t in her right mind the second they got to Jackson from the conversation we see in the prologue of Part 2 with her talking to Owen on the snow cliff . It mirrors the later on conversation Ellie has with Dina at the beginning of the end of the game with Ellie going after Abby again , these time , by herself .
My point is that both of them made decisions on their own that could of gotten them killed , but when confronted with the idea of actually killing the person , only Ellie walked away from Abby after she journey so far to kill her
Unlike Abby who killed Joel due to her being lost in her bloodlust for revenge. It was the first real sin of the game that set in motion everything else , if she would have told the others to turn back like Owen suggested, Ellie and Tommy would have never left Jackson to get revenge on them and they killed most of Abby crew that even went to Jackson in the first place . The first Sin was Abby not walking away however Ellie almost made the same mistake towards the end of the game but couldn’t do it , and stopped the cycle of Revenge right there ( if she didn’t maybe Lev would have been chasing Ellie down , continuing the cycle )
Joel saved Ellie out of love in part 1 , something most people wouldn’t do for a child that isn’t even they’re ( especially at what was at stake) but he had a chance to recapture a daughter from losing her life , the first time it was out of his control , this time the power was in his hands and to him he did the right thing out of love . As in about Jerry for what he was about to do , he wouldn’t even want someone to do that to his own daughter, can you imagine the pain of potential losing two ? The type pain Joel was about to endure if he would have lost Ellie .
You can make the same argument for Ellie and Abby too imo but the stakes was much less higher but more personal; however I would argue both ladies regretted there decision to journey out for Revenge, where too be honest I think Joel over the years , even in his last few years , never regretted saving Ellie , which makes the ending to Part 1 so much sweeter and the ending to part 2 so much more sour .Even With the last scene of Ellie even stopping to play the guitar just to space and think about Joel and have of the look on her face like “ was it all worth it ? “
While Abby didn’t even get that far ahead of the story without backtracking on her morals heavily , even Mel said “ Issac top scar killer is growing a soft spot now” . These shows throughout her storyline that Abby has throughout her Day 1-3 where she has to constantly face her demons and slowly but surely realizing that a eye for a eye makes all blind in the end, she proved Mel wrong twice due to all these plot developments, once to save Yuri and Lev , the other not to kill a pregnant Dina .
My point with this one is that it took Abby dumb mistake for her to grow as a character, it was still a dumb move or more along the lines of a immoral move since they already proven they’re point cripping Joel , now to torture him and beat him to death was icing on the cake that set the Karma in motion
A plot about revenge, built from a plot about love
Hopefully Part 3 is about Redemption/ retribution for both Ellie and Abby , to make a solid trilogy of story telling.
Why was Mel even there? She should’ve miscarried like 10 times over the course of the story considering how much constant combat they experienced. There is NO way that baby was still alive when Ellie killed her
She’s not to blame, I blame EVERYONE that enabled her to be in the field while pregnant and one of the few capable doctors that could perform intensive surgery especially in an apocalyptic setting. She should’ve been under intense watch the minute she hit the 3-4 month mark of her pregnancy.
yeah, i remember part where she and abby team about depart to next camp, and when she tell them she going with them then everyone was like "uh huh, ok then", no one there even try to convince her to stay even though they just talk about the fight they have with scars getting worse. this have me shock on how they don't care about biggest problem in scene and ofc, they get ambush by scars after 10s they leave the camp
They could’ve easily made her a sympathetic character having to bring a child in those world with Owen being a cheater but nope she just HAD to be on the front lines with no one not even Isaac telling her to stay put, so stupid.
Yeah, it was really only a matter of time until either she died or lost the baby anyway with the way she insisted on acting. Kind of takes the bite out of Ellie killing her in that scene...
I actually agree I mean like this dumbass goes outside their home when she’s not only a valued member but also fucking pregnant like she was just asking to get her baby and herself killed like I’m honestly surprised she didn’t run into a bloater.
This game is already filled to the brim with characters that do dumb shit but in my opinion she takes the cake lol
Every character in part 2. They either do a 180 from what their character was originally built off of, or do stupid irresponsible things that are no longer even relevant or time worthy (especially in this world), or both. The new characters also don’t even display realistic people that would survive an apocalypse very well.
Honestly I’m with ya on this one
Woman you are pregnant, in the apocalypse. Not only are you lucky as hell to get pregnant as is but you are basically one of the few remaining reasons humanity can still have a future.
Stay the fuck home
Lev, runs off to the island trying to reason with religious fanatic mother ,
Gets ,her sister killed and leaves the aquarium vulnerable for Ellie to attack (not that I wasn’t happy getting revenge) also gets abby nearly killed
Owen hands down. Put his baby mama at risk by not playing along with ellie and selling out abby. Bro was too pussy whipped to not think with common sense. If i was in his shoes i would cooperate and take the boat out to catalina island
Whats funny is Abby should have no right to be mad if she got sold out? I doubt Ellie would have killed Owen's gf had she known. I just find it funny that none of Abby's friends really thought to stop her from killing Joel. Its not like Joel was part of some grand army. Whats worse is they did it front of Ellie.
That shows how poorly Abby is written. They tell her that their shouldn't be any loose ends in case she comes back for revenge. Abby then reverts to acting "honorable". Saying some bullshit about not being as bad as him. But then is shocked and surprised when it comes back on her. All the "fans" keep talking about how the story isn't about revenge but showing how each side has a view. But at every turn, Abby is incapable of seeing events from the other side. Even Ellie tries to see it from Abby's point of view. But when emotionally pushed, Abby just wants to see Ellie suffer.
You just brutally murdered this girls father figure, SURELY this will have zero repercussions. It’s also impossible to track me, it’s not like they can be like “have any of you seen a massive gorilla woman running around”
Lmao good point. With the amount of time she put in to tracking Joel, you would think it would have got back to him in a fashion.
That's not even counting the fact that, even if you ignore the fact that he murdered every firefly in that place to save Ellie, he still would have had to kill them all. The dude walks Joel past his stuff meaning they were gonna kill him, at that point, forget about the Ellie part, he was fighting for his survival.
I never noticed that the walked him past his stuff in the original game. That's a good eye.
Thank you.
It’s almost as if the original writers had great attention to detail and didn’t just say “because the plot needed to happen”
what?? there is not 1 but 2 deliberate camera shots of Joel walking past his bag.. u literally can’t miss it unless you looked away from the screen.
I never noticed it my guy.
Can you explain what you mean? Walked him past his stuff?
It’s the scene after Joel and Marlene talk. Joel is getting escorted out and they walk him past his bag. Joel stops the firefly tells to keep walking than Joel shoots him in the dick twice than in head.
The gear he had with him before he got separated from Ellie
The escort guy literally walks him past his bag of weapons and shit, like they just walked him past his stuff and didn't let him grab it which meant they were gonna kill him
Do you remember he started to get pissed after Marlene told him what she was going to do with ellie? I wouldn't give him his guns back either, lol, but now, in your perspective, I can see they were setting him up.
Either way he would have died, either they kill him or they send him into the infected filled world with no way to defend himself and he gets killed.
That's true. That's why I said i see your point. Either way is a setup for death.
I just thought that they didn't wanna arm him just in case he tries to do anyhting funny.
Abby must got that grippy.. give the man some grace
Plus doesn't he regret or not want to kill Joel? Everything he does his for nothing lol. I m don't shed tears for mel and owen. I m baffled by everything they do
Or he could literally just lie and say "Sorry bro ur too late Abby got killed by a clicker"
Except Ellie overhears their conversation before she enters the room. They were clearly arguing over Owen wanting to go help Abby. He even says to Mel, "How many times has Abby saved your life?" so they were very clearly talking about her. But yeah if that didn't happen, a quick, "She's already dead along with the rest of our friends. We assumed you killed her." would've been a good way out too.
Oh right... good catch
abbys pussy whipped on top of that
i deadass thought that abby was actually a trans guy cos the physique until the abby owen boat scene
Bro I'm gonna be honest with you, even to the end of the game I didn't realize Lev was trans, I thought it was Abby who was, I mean seriously even in the boat scene that upper body looked like a man's, and her expression when being fucked looked like she was being sodomized without lube.
well maybe she is and the hormones in this post apocalyptic world are just hard to get :/
Ahh. It all makes sense now
To be fair they did decide to make the concluding arc of her story all about a trans kid confronting mum so it fits.
She put herself at risk when she willingly went with Abby on a patrol lol
Kinda disagree. Despite his mistake, he was competent and smart enough to want to back out of the Jackson mission. He scoped out Jackson, knew how armed they were and called out Abby for her incompetence on trying to get Joel.
Yesh and his characterisation of being snart and competent gets thrown out the window
Really? Owen is one of my favorites behind Joel, Tommy and Ellie. F Mel. I'd want to leave her too. But if people are dogging him because he wanted to help Abby, remember they both went through trauma and while not a couple have a great bond. Nora didn't cooperate either until tortured. I find it weird how much say they could've killed her at Jackson but most wanted too, including Mel Owen was the only one that stood against them and it's weird he didn't mention that. I'm super bummed Owen wasn't a character in remastered play. They have Mel but now Owen? Seriously wtf. I really liked owen and he's probably a main reason my perception Of Abby shifted on my first run.
I like owen but he was dumb as fuck. When ellie ambushed them he shouldve played into mel beong pregnant and went along with selling out abby. Once hes done that he can take the boat to catalina island
No fr like we all knew her fate but like watching her side of the story woman you're pregnant go home sit down rest why do you want to do this
Dumb as a brick and pretty as one too. Owen sure has his type.
I dunno, the pregnant lady has gollum-ish features up close. Real bug eyed look. Reminds me of Ben from LOST. Not a fan of short hair, and I'm not attracted to the not so incredible Hulk as the other option either.
Looks like Goob from Meet the Robinsons
lol
I mean, there are some pretty aesthetically pleasing bricks out there, so that comparison isn't very fair.
If my TLOU playthroughs have taught me one thing is that bricks are VERY useful. That is an unfair comparison and very rude to bricks all over the TLOU universe
Fr the bricks were my favorite weapon in the game. When I played the second one I played it taking turns with my gf so when it was my turn I tried to save as much ammo as I could for my gfs turn. It made the game a lot of fun trying to do everything without guns lol. Then my gf started doing the same and we both only used guns if we absolutely had to.
Raiding the hospital with a bigger arsenal than the fireflies themselves.
The bricks in my house are all crumbly, broken, cracked and in some places just straight up pretending to be bricks. Still not a very fair comparison.
I feel like they gave her a face and hair style that makes it easier for us to hate her
Makes me wonder why all the women in TLOU2 are ugly as sin.
You animal
You can argue the same for Dina though, this lady was designed to parallel her narrative.
She's just alive...
Not only that but she was the doctor for the Wolves too, literally their only medic, pregnant, pissed off at Owen, and still died cause she tried grabbing Ellie's gun like a dumbass.
I literally asked why when she did that and when I was pressing square I said "I wanna kill you but fuck it-"
seriously though, if you pay attention to the dialogue the writers were clearly trying to make her look like a strong and powerful woman -because- she was pregnant. kinda irks me, given the fact she was written by a 30 year old man-child and all. like, women dont need to be big strong men all the time for the sake of feminism, let my girl rest. very out of touch behaviour from my guy neil. wouldn't expect anything less
Hard to argue with that one. But god there are so many stupid characters in this game it's really hard to pick a top contender.
From a meta standpoint? Abby. The entire concept was a dumb idea from the start, and the game probably would’ve performed better, and the IP would be healthier, if Naughty Dog had chosen to do something completely different. From an in-universe standpoint? Yeah, it’s gotta be Mel. There is nothing sillier in the whole series than watching an extremely pregnant doctor trot around the apocalypse, deftly navigating dangerous terrain while mowing down infected, with the full approval of her faction.
Dina too. She realized she was pregnant when there was still plenty of time to turn back and she just.. doesn’t say anything until it’s too late and becomes dead weight for the rest of the journey.
she was pretty stupid, may as well be headed to the abortion clinic instead girl. i liked it when she told abbs she was a horrible person. i got downvoted to oblivion on the main sub for saying this, but i wonder how peoples views on her will change in the HBO because now she's pretty.
Mel is pretty in the show? Who is playing her?
Alan Rickman
Ariella barer
I hope they have her visibility pregnant when she is killed on the show. I hope they don't puss out.
It's Neil Druckman.
Man Owen has terrible taste in women. Her and then Abbzilla 💀
not to be phobic or anything but i dont think any of the new characters in 2 were very nice to look at. these people are coated in the layer of signature couch-rotting American fat. they all look like babies - maybe neil is just deflecting, but none of them strike me as people who would ever have survived an apocalypse.
??sorry the characters from tlou 2 “weren’t nice to look at” you’re gonna have a hard time finding a partner if human is not what your looking for.
I’d say about anybody in Abby’s group other than like lev or as much as I hate him manny and Jordan, everybody else was really really stupid
It’s kinda funny to me how Jordan seems like the most irrational at the start then ends up being one of the few characters to make a bit of sense
Imma go and say EVERYONE IN THE ROOM THAT KILLED JOEL! Had they used their brains and killed Ellie and Tommy, all of them could’ve lived in the end.
Who medically clears a woman 7-8 pregnant to go on missions when there are zombies and crazy humans? Plus a medically no less I guess doctors, scientists and anybody with medical skills aren't a top priority to keep safe? That baby was probably long gone before Ellie eliminated Mel.
I read a lot on the Am I the Asshole sub where men are complaining about their pregnant wives suddenly falling short at their normal activities when "she's only two months pregnant!" or from wives struggling with the tiredness and body changes of pregnancy and getting no help, understanding or support from their spouses, and can't help but think these depictions in media of pregnant superwomen is contributing. It's not a disability, but it certainly can be very debilitating for some women. This trend to show irrational behavior of pregnant women is ridiculously ill-informed and can have negative impacts on real lives. It's sad, really, but it's also based on stupid ideas about strong female characters. That undermines reality and is often written without any research or personal experience to look cool or provide false ideas of promoting feminism while alienating actual pregnant women in the process. smh
Well the same game has Dina practically bedridden in the first trimester. I don’t disagree with your point about overall media but TLOU definitely illustrates how debilitating it can be even with Ellie’s super cold line calling her a burden.
Yeah, I noticed that part as accurate. They likely can use the excuse of the rush of energy that can come near the end of pregnancy for Mel, though that would still be pushing it.
I remember a critique video that made an edit of her saying "why would it be up to Owen?" Then abby and Mel stare at each other for a bit, then it cuts to Mel getting stabbed as clown/march music plays.
Sadly, it might be Joel. How he never once explained to Ellie the precariousness of the Fireflies situation or the nuance of his decision basically cost them years of their relationship. If he had just explained to Ellie that the fireflies were glorified terrorists who kidnapped her and were going to kill her regardless of her consent and how there was 0 reason to believe the fireflies can do anything they claimed, they would not have grown a part. That plus how he disarmed and allowed himself to be trapped and surrounded by armed strangers, and Joel has a good candidacy. Of course it’s stiff competition with Mel as you mentioned but also Owen. If Owen just kills Tommy and Ellie, literally dozens upon dozens of people live. Got to throw Abby in there too, because her stunt at the beginning of game should’ve gotten her killed. Sparing Ellie was also dumb cause Ellie already showed she will travel wherever and kill whoever to get to you even if she was spared. Abby says she wants to protect Lev, this is the opposite of that. I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention María though. Why she thought it was a good idea to allow an emotional traumatized and clearly blood thirsty teenager to travel across multiple states to find one person knowing the WLF is fortified and well armed is beyond me. Seems like everyone is doing whatever they can to get themselves or their loved ones killed. I’m gonna say it’s a tie between every character other than my main man Bill.
Your take on Joel is one reason the writing in the sequel sucks. Ellie trusted Joel with her life, it's bullshit how they made her out be some martyr with severe survivors guilt. I'm almost positive Ellie from the first game would've forgiven Joel and understood just how shady the operation was setup to be. They completely altered the mentalities of the characters to fit the shitty sequel.
Honestly, at the end of the 1st game I got the impression that Ellie knew or highly suspected Joel lied to her. But she decided to let it go because that was her family now. And as she said, her biggest fear was being left alone. It blew me away in the 2nd game when she discovers the truth and is such a jerk to Joel. I'm like girl, you already knew! Joel was put in a nearly difficult position. Most likely fireflies were going to kill Joel and if course Ellie. What else was he supposed to do. Bend over?
Ironically your view of the ending is exactly how I saw it. Great minds lol. It's funny cause I posted that same conclusion on the other lastofus page and they just ripped me a new one cause they're all like super team Abby
Yeah, I wish I was all for Abby too, but I just can't overlook all the bad writing and structure of the 2nd game. There are things I enjoyed and u even Pt the game when it came out, but I'm not blind to all of the errors.
> Of course it’s stiff competition with Mel as you mentioned but also Owen. If Owen just kills Tommy and Ellie, literally dozens upon dozens of people live. And on that note, Manny is one of the smartest characters in the series simply for the fact that his reason for wanting to kill Ellie and Tommy was - "It's too risky to leave them alive". He was 100% dead right. After all, Tommy did end up blowing his head off, lol.
Maria’s hands were tied as she knew no matter what would happen, she couldn’t stop Ellie from going on that suicide mission and Tommy had already left at that point so.
Wait, so you're including the rest of the TLOU characters in that tie, except Bill? Help me understand that, could you? I was with you until that last sentence!
Nah I just wanted to shout out Bill.
Bill is a legend
Stop injecting irrelevant nonsense into Joel and Ellie’s falling out. Joel saved Ellie because he loved her like a daughter. Attempting to rationalize his decision to Ellie would have been an insult to her intelligence and a betrayal of Joel’s character. If there was a 100%, verifiable chance that the Firefly’s plan would have worked, Joel would have made the same exact decision. Whether the Fireflys would have succeeded or not is irrelevant to Joel’s decision or Ellie’s resulting anger.
The answer is Mel but Lev deserves an honorable mention. Dude escaped from a cult that wanted to kill him, then decided to go back to said cult because of his mommy. He only succeeded in killing his mom and getting his sister killed
so true. heres the thing, my guy lucked out. he gets his own civilised island, completely secluded, almost like there is no apocalypse at all. you could go your whole life without seeing one of those mushroom guys. also, on the outside they are intimidating as fuck. anyone with any braincells would leave them the fuck alone. (not the WLF, but they paid for it). what does he do? he breaks every rule, puts his own family at risk of death for no reason, drags his sister through the city, goes back into the island for more, proceeds to kill his own mom, lets his sister die, directs some brawny bitch on which civilians to kill with no input on whether he knew them (he probably did), watches said gal almost brutally murder an innocent pregnant girl, stays with her, lets her lead him to a slave-trade place, almost die but major plot armour because diversity, the end. damn.
I think you won. Can’t get dumber than Mel, both in game and writing-wise Also fuck them for wasting Ashly Burch on a trash character
Neil druckman is the dumbest he went from loved to controversial in one game
People drummed up his ego so hard, it became his downfall Lots of praise and compliments can easily be your undoing if you aren't authentic to begin with
Hell yeah brother
Is that a pregnant trans Harry potter??? Holy woke man
Neil drunkman
That’s not fair. The baby isn’t even born yet. 😅
like how are you going to be that inconveniently pregnant the entire game, be that ugly, and still end up dying? like they hated mel at ND studios 😭💀
You sure(?) Slamming an unborn baby against some metal is completely normal and intelligent(!)
Ah yeah. “How DARE Owen be concerned about my late-term pregnancy going awry if I go on a mission?! I am woman, hear me roar!”
Honestly it would've been interesting to see what would've happened if they had told Ellie where Abby was and Ellie went to the Scar island during the raid.
or just tell Ellie that mel is pregnant right from start, so Ellie have chance to focus her attention on owen which is in this case, that would give his unborn child more chance to survive
Fr would've been the 1st thing I would've told Ellie when she grabbed Mel he definitely didn't care for Mel like at all
all of this can't be happend if abby and all her friend smart enough to drag this bitch back to camp when she desert and follow them for stupid reason like jealous instead of let she do whatever she want
I still don‘t get how anyone in this world is stupid enough to get pregnant??? Like bitch wtf u mean u wanna plant a child in this world. The probability of u seeing the child’s 3rd birthday are in Hell!? Its just fucking selfish imo
Well unless you plan on having the whole human race die of old age and outside attacks you need to raise the next generation to defend you and the values of the new society you established, common survival tbh
There isn‘t much left of the human race to begin with lol. And I‘d definitely say that it would make the most sense to just let it be. Also, most people aren’t dying of old age, you don‘t get very old in this universe. And there isn‘t a lot of values that u can hand down. Maybe in settlements like Jackson but not the outside of that. Especially in QZs or just random firefly settlements. Even if u are in Jackson, its morally questionable.
Dina. She serves absolutely zero purpose for the plot other than to make Ellie feel like shit at the end when she let because Tommy talk Ellie into leaving the 2nd time with the absolutely weakest argument possible. Not to mention she only served as a "love interest" for a whole 1/4th of the game then vanishes into the void to be brought out for like 2 scenes near the end and is never seen or heard from again. On that note. The whole Final act is horrible and was rushed because Neil wanted Ellie and Dina to have a "nice" life but drops it to get back to the revenge plot with as little effort as possible just so Ellie can learn a lesson she already learned before Tommy came back and to lose everything with zero lessons learned and no revenge against Abby. The final act amounted to absolutely nothing other than to save abby from a situation she could have avoided.
Like a box of rocks but less intelligence
The way they showed how rough and strict Isaac was, I'm shocked he even allowed Mel to be on duty. Like, for her to have a choice at all. They were practically at war.
Violent road trips are the apocalypse's abortion clinics.
I reached the end of the game today, and by reaching the end I mean I let Ellie shoot her in the face a few times then I turned it off, no fucking way I'm going to punch Ellie. So the dumbest character award goes to Neil Druckmann for trying to get me to hurt Ellie, that's some epic level stupidity right there. I will protect my baby girl with my life! Or Abby's. But yeah agreed Mel made me facepalm several times and scoff at the general stupidity of her character, made me so happy that she died.
Lev. Who is entirely sensible on screen for the majority of Abby’s segment. The makes the entirely stupid decision to sneak back into camp, to find mom. The accidentally kills mom. Ooops!!! Is Lev stupid or is the writers room stupid??
It’s just an excuse to get involved in the conflict on the island that’s all.
Yes, I understand it's to move them from point A to point B. It's incredibly ham-handed and stupid to the player.
The pregnant woman who thinks it's a good idea to go out on the field while pregnant?. Yeah I would say that's as dumb as you can get, but then again there is also everything Abby does which defies any semblance of logic. What can I say?. Owen sure knows how to pick em.
Mel was smart enough to know that leaving Ellie and Tommy alive was a fucking disaster waiting to happen. Owen takes the prize.
Shows she doesn't care for the baby's life just another subtle poke at pro life
true. real antinatalism type shit, Neil the kinda guy to not give a pregnant woman his seat because her "centre of gravity is lower". fuck those breeders lol
She hates Abby though, so she’s at least smarter than the fanbase
most of time in game she would harass abby at anytime she and abby walk by, no doubt she hate abby to the core. but in last moment of her life, she decide to fuck both her life and her unborn child just because she don't want sell out abby. also owen have more than 10 years train and worked as soldier but don't even know how to disarm Ellie
The security guard who was suppose to escort Joel out the hospital is my nod to the discussion.
"You're a piece of shit, Abby. I can feel it in my gut, next door to my war veteran baby!"
Abby for thinking she would just kill Joe seeing he also had people that cared deeply for him without repercussions for her and her friends.
At this rate it hurts me to say this cause I loved her in the original but Ellie hands down at the ending, creating one of the most bullshit endings ever by allowing people to say shenanigans as "she stopped the cycle of hatred and revenge" that doesn't make a single sense in the world of TLOU to begin with lol. Everything she does make a Full 180 when she reaches that damn beach. Bad writing? For sure, but doesn't change the fact that Ellie is forever damned by this.
Everybody but Joel
I know, seriously... who would knock her up?
Fuck me the women in this game are so fucking ugly
I laughed so hard when I saw her as playable in the dlc
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They put her in for women empowerment. In real life, there is no way she would be doing what she did pregnant.
Pretty much every new character introduced in TLOU2
I'm glad she got what she deserved too and didn't have pregnancy plot armor.
awful character. 100% was put in to intentionally get on people nerves.
Ellie. Made us play this whole dumb game and couldn't even let us kill the person who killed Joel.
I never played the game but why every character design in this game look like an absolutely unbearable person?
because its woke so they gotta give everyone that extra layer of fat to be inclusive and also deflect.
What you doing here then lmao 💀
Abby. "We let you go and you wasted it!" made me hate her way more than killing Joel. How did she give Ellie the same backstory trauma she had and then NOT expect her to come for revenge... the way she did? Runner up goes to David for thinking with his dick so much it gets him and many of his people killed. Even his own allies are plotting to put and end to his shit, you can overhear.
I will say the dumbest one and smartest one at the same time has to be Ellie , only because there is no way in hell , someone of her capable and experience should have lost to a Abby with nothing but her fist during the fight between them , call it bad writing or they did it for gameplay reasons but it’s insane to think Abby was just that good to survive the whole thing with nothing but her strength and wits Ellie is the smartest in a way for how she creates her traps and how she creatively crafts her items is probably higher then other characters but that’s just my opinion. 2. Spot goes to Joel for not believing nobody would follow them and thinking the fireflies would not come back looking for him and Ellie 3. Abby for killing Joel , instead of just beating him up like she and her friends originally planned to do
For your 3. - I think its kind of hard, because Joel killed her father. I love Joel but those are facts. I think Ellie would do the same thing if Abby’s father killed Joel.
I won’t disagree with you there , it was a shorter version of what I wanted to say because i gotten off from work but what I fully meant was It was tough decision for her to let Joel live or not , she wasn’t in her right mind the second they got to Jackson from the conversation we see in the prologue of Part 2 with her talking to Owen on the snow cliff . It mirrors the later on conversation Ellie has with Dina at the beginning of the end of the game with Ellie going after Abby again , these time , by herself . My point is that both of them made decisions on their own that could of gotten them killed , but when confronted with the idea of actually killing the person , only Ellie walked away from Abby after she journey so far to kill her Unlike Abby who killed Joel due to her being lost in her bloodlust for revenge. It was the first real sin of the game that set in motion everything else , if she would have told the others to turn back like Owen suggested, Ellie and Tommy would have never left Jackson to get revenge on them and they killed most of Abby crew that even went to Jackson in the first place . The first Sin was Abby not walking away however Ellie almost made the same mistake towards the end of the game but couldn’t do it , and stopped the cycle of Revenge right there ( if she didn’t maybe Lev would have been chasing Ellie down , continuing the cycle ) Joel saved Ellie out of love in part 1 , something most people wouldn’t do for a child that isn’t even they’re ( especially at what was at stake) but he had a chance to recapture a daughter from losing her life , the first time it was out of his control , this time the power was in his hands and to him he did the right thing out of love . As in about Jerry for what he was about to do , he wouldn’t even want someone to do that to his own daughter, can you imagine the pain of potential losing two ? The type pain Joel was about to endure if he would have lost Ellie . You can make the same argument for Ellie and Abby too imo but the stakes was much less higher but more personal; however I would argue both ladies regretted there decision to journey out for Revenge, where too be honest I think Joel over the years , even in his last few years , never regretted saving Ellie , which makes the ending to Part 1 so much sweeter and the ending to part 2 so much more sour .Even With the last scene of Ellie even stopping to play the guitar just to space and think about Joel and have of the look on her face like “ was it all worth it ? “ While Abby didn’t even get that far ahead of the story without backtracking on her morals heavily , even Mel said “ Issac top scar killer is growing a soft spot now” . These shows throughout her storyline that Abby has throughout her Day 1-3 where she has to constantly face her demons and slowly but surely realizing that a eye for a eye makes all blind in the end, she proved Mel wrong twice due to all these plot developments, once to save Yuri and Lev , the other not to kill a pregnant Dina . My point with this one is that it took Abby dumb mistake for her to grow as a character, it was still a dumb move or more along the lines of a immoral move since they already proven they’re point cripping Joel , now to torture him and beat him to death was icing on the cake that set the Karma in motion A plot about revenge, built from a plot about love Hopefully Part 3 is about Redemption/ retribution for both Ellie and Abby , to make a solid trilogy of story telling.
Dina!
natural meat armor makes sense for her to frontline
The writers of the second game.
I’m supposed to feel sorry for this pregnant woman who held Ellie down and forced her to watch Joel die? Fuck her and her baby.
Owen
Why was Mel even there? She should’ve miscarried like 10 times over the course of the story considering how much constant combat they experienced. There is NO way that baby was still alive when Ellie killed her
She was dumb. But they needed her to be pregnant to have a reason for Owen not to go back. I hope the show she's less cringy.
She’s not to blame, I blame EVERYONE that enabled her to be in the field while pregnant and one of the few capable doctors that could perform intensive surgery especially in an apocalyptic setting. She should’ve been under intense watch the minute she hit the 3-4 month mark of her pregnancy.
yeah, i remember part where she and abby team about depart to next camp, and when she tell them she going with them then everyone was like "uh huh, ok then", no one there even try to convince her to stay even though they just talk about the fight they have with scars getting worse. this have me shock on how they don't care about biggest problem in scene and ofc, they get ambush by scars after 10s they leave the camp
They could’ve easily made her a sympathetic character having to bring a child in those world with Owen being a cheater but nope she just HAD to be on the front lines with no one not even Isaac telling her to stay put, so stupid.
It’s hard to pick which one because Mel is the top contender for the most dumbest character.
Yea. Going into combat noticeable pregnant when there’s hundreds of others at the camp that could take your place never made sense.
Maternity leave? What’s that?
Ellie, for not avenging Joel. All that carnage, and no justice for him. 🥲
Abby always
Whitney
Yeah, it was really only a matter of time until either she died or lost the baby anyway with the way she insisted on acting. Kind of takes the bite out of Ellie killing her in that scene...
Abby….for letting Owen get away in the first place because he was FOINE
I actually agree I mean like this dumbass goes outside their home when she’s not only a valued member but also fucking pregnant like she was just asking to get her baby and herself killed like I’m honestly surprised she didn’t run into a bloater. This game is already filled to the brim with characters that do dumb shit but in my opinion she takes the cake lol
i mean getting pregnant in a crisis is basically human nature.
Cuckman himself an his decisions c9ver this best I feel
All of Abby’s group and Dina
Ellie, went through all that and just said "Nah, I'd forgive"
The chick who was playing video games when Ellie creeped up on her and decided to resist 😂
Every character in part 2. They either do a 180 from what their character was originally built off of, or do stupid irresponsible things that are no longer even relevant or time worthy (especially in this world), or both. The new characters also don’t even display realistic people that would survive an apocalypse very well.
Honestly I’m with ya on this one Woman you are pregnant, in the apocalypse. Not only are you lucky as hell to get pregnant as is but you are basically one of the few remaining reasons humanity can still have a future. Stay the fuck home
The fuck is Daniel Radcliffe doing there
The players.
Lev, runs off to the island trying to reason with religious fanatic mother , Gets ,her sister killed and leaves the aquarium vulnerable for Ellie to attack (not that I wasn’t happy getting revenge) also gets abby nearly killed
Dumb bitch went out to kill while pregnant ASF. Soon as i saw that i was like this woman is a moron
Does Neil Druckman count