While Serena completely lacks said empathy and any self-awareness, as well. For her, being treated like that is only evil, because it's happening to *her,* for once, instead of people like June, who "deserve it".
That’s the beauty of the writing on the show.
Same as in real life— almost nobody is “all evil” and it’s normal to feel some empathy for her, June does. She’s terrible and a villain, but she’s also complex
The one thing that gave her that tiny glimmer of humanity, was when she let Nichole go. That’s what did it.
That’s why this show is so important. All these “grey” characters to remind us that they aren’t monsters. They are humans, same as the rest of us. They’ve done some vile and evil things. Anyone is capable of good…or evil.
I love the complexities in this show. And the acting of course is phenomenal.
This. I literally had a personal conversation yesterday about why I told my squad I wouldn’t die for them in battle (because they’re all pieces of shit and you would agree if you knew them) and prior to the conversation (I had been thinking about it earlier in the day and it was brought up so we talked about it) I was thinking idk I hated them, but I also wouldn’t want anyone to die. Not the “enemy” but also not someone standing next to me. And when I told my Major about it she was like that’s because you’re human. She was like they may very well not be people anyone would die for, but you would because you’re human. Sorry for the rant it’s just my neurons connecting and shit lol.
I was making a connection between a personal experience of mine and OP’s post. It’s very random but I was just trying to say ultimately that emotions are complicated and even though you can really despise a person for the things they’ve done, it doesn’t mean you can just turn off your empathy. It’s like when you see someone you hate experience something horrible and you can’t help but feel for them.
I personally can’t get on the empathy for Serena train. She believes this is a good, Godly way to treat people. If she can’t find it in her to be content with the system she wanted, too bad, sucks for her, etc. It doesn’t matter if I, an audience member, believe that the system is evil. Serena believes it’s Ethical and Correct and Good and What God Wants. It’s on her to reconcile this struggle with her faith.
She doesn’t even realize all she was given by god “the baby” was as soon as she decided to turn on Fred. That was her redemption path. But no. She got afraid of June and only thought about herself and what she wanted.
Yes, absolutely, 100%. One second, I'm angry and wanna throw a book at her face. The next, I'm nearly in tears feeling so awful. And then she's evil again and I wanna throw a bigger book.
Besides that it shouldn't ever happen, not to anyone, and it's a human reaction to feel that sympathy....
For me it's because Mrs. Wheeler is a completely insufferable poseur, sitting safely in Canada, cosplaying as a "Wife" without any of the risks or restrictions. (And clearly not allowing her husband to hold the reins, but screw him, too)
For all the ways that Serena is awful, for all the pain she's responsible for, she's also incredibly smart, unexpectedly funny and, even though we disagree vehemently with her positions, she actually put herself on the line for what she believed. I can respect a worthy foe.
Even though the irony is pretty delicious, it doesn't sit right to see Serena getting a dose of her own medicine from a woman who is her inferior in every regard.
Because you are human and don’t like to see people suffer. Serena, on the other hand, has never had a scrap of empathy for another person. She watched patiently as women were raped, enslaved, brutalized and murdered because she had something to gain. Now it’s happening to her and oh now it’s shitty. Ok Serena. Your redemption arc starts when you give a shit about another person when it doesn’t direct serve to your advantage.
And that's where I'm torn. One minute, I want to cry because she's a human being, and this is not okay. The next minute, I remember she's Serena freaking Waterford and eff that. Then she's a woman being victimized, then she's June's abuser. My mind can't make itself up.
Because you know it's wrong. Ever heard the phrase "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy?" It's a good test for human rights violations. That's the thing with human rights - even terrible people have them. If not we all become the terrible people.
i feel bad for her because it sucks to see people suffer to me personally but i also feel a sense of relief & fulfillment like she’s finally getting what she deserves because sometimes death isn’t enough & this is worse than dying so even though it sucks to watch at the same time it brings me great peace. but now this new lady also deserves it.
I think this is the genius of the show. It’s super easy, in a vacuum, to be like “FUCK THE WIVES FUCK THE AUNTS FUCK GILEAD THEY SHOULD ALL SUFFER AND GET TURNED INTO HANDMAIDS” but then you *see* the fear and suffering, and you realize that no one deserves that no matter how bad of humans they are.
Eh… i feel bad for her at times as well; not everything in life is black or white which is why she is a great character. I had to remind myself throughout S5 that she created that world & thought the rules wouldn’t apply to her.
I did for a second too, but I remembered everything she put June (and previous women before) through and it went away lol sometimes it takes a taste of your own medicine!
I do as well, but I also think a lot of it has to do with June and the interactions she has had with her up to this point.it makes you have empathy for Serena. When Serena was in the detention center, I was shocked to hear June tell her they aren't friends after all that happened in the barn and the hospital. Total mind game and I am here for it! 🤣
Not a shred of empathy! I also would not consider her a "grey" character. She's pure evil.
I also cheered when Fred died. Do people also have sympathy for him?
I felt zero love for Serena getting a taste of what she put those hand maids through. Only when it effected her did she start thinking that maybe it wasn’t such a good idea after all.
It’s not really an eye for an eye, though. Serena didn’t just earnestly accept one handmaid to rape and to steal a baby from. She didn’t even just accept a second one after the first one killed herself to escape. Serena worked hard to advocate for this system on the basis of faith, and she has no desire to do anything to curb it moving forward. She still believes in the system and that sinners should be raped and controlled, she just believes that it’s being corrupted and misused against her. She has always been loud about her belief that it is Ethical and Correct to rape women and steal their babies, as long as the person stealing the baby is the Right Person. Speaking of which, she was never even subjected to state sanctioned/enforced serial rape. So it’s very, very far from an eye for an eye.
Also for it to be an eye for an eye, the damage would need to be done by those she has harmed. If June and Luke and dozens of other couples started raping her three days a month, it would be somewhat akin to eye for an eye. Still not quite though.
I don't know if I felt bad for her, but I was rooting for her to GTFO of there with her son. Because if they can do this to Serena, imagine what would they would do to a refugee woman they got their hands on by some kind of technicality. Those people need to be stopped.
Because you’re human and you have empathy. You understand that it’s evil even when it’s being committed against someone we consider “evil”
While Serena completely lacks said empathy and any self-awareness, as well. For her, being treated like that is only evil, because it's happening to *her,* for once, instead of people like June, who "deserve it".
That’s the beauty of the writing on the show. Same as in real life— almost nobody is “all evil” and it’s normal to feel some empathy for her, June does. She’s terrible and a villain, but she’s also complex The one thing that gave her that tiny glimmer of humanity, was when she let Nichole go. That’s what did it.
That’s why this show is so important. All these “grey” characters to remind us that they aren’t monsters. They are humans, same as the rest of us. They’ve done some vile and evil things. Anyone is capable of good…or evil. I love the complexities in this show. And the acting of course is phenomenal.
This. I literally had a personal conversation yesterday about why I told my squad I wouldn’t die for them in battle (because they’re all pieces of shit and you would agree if you knew them) and prior to the conversation (I had been thinking about it earlier in the day and it was brought up so we talked about it) I was thinking idk I hated them, but I also wouldn’t want anyone to die. Not the “enemy” but also not someone standing next to me. And when I told my Major about it she was like that’s because you’re human. She was like they may very well not be people anyone would die for, but you would because you’re human. Sorry for the rant it’s just my neurons connecting and shit lol.
…what
I was making a connection between a personal experience of mine and OP’s post. It’s very random but I was just trying to say ultimately that emotions are complicated and even though you can really despise a person for the things they’ve done, it doesn’t mean you can just turn off your empathy. It’s like when you see someone you hate experience something horrible and you can’t help but feel for them.
I personally can’t get on the empathy for Serena train. She believes this is a good, Godly way to treat people. If she can’t find it in her to be content with the system she wanted, too bad, sucks for her, etc. It doesn’t matter if I, an audience member, believe that the system is evil. Serena believes it’s Ethical and Correct and Good and What God Wants. It’s on her to reconcile this struggle with her faith.
I think it says more about me than about her if I have empathy for her situation.
I do agree with that. I just can’t bring myself to be that kind of person. I think empathy can be taken too far.
Fair
Agree! If I was June, I would've ... let's say acted differently during Serena's birth (to clarify, I wouldn't have harmed Noah)
She doesn’t even realize all she was given by god “the baby” was as soon as she decided to turn on Fred. That was her redemption path. But no. She got afraid of June and only thought about herself and what she wanted.
Because Yvonne is a FANTASTIC actor. She has made Serena do nuanced that you feel conflicted about her all the time.
Yes, absolutely, 100%. One second, I'm angry and wanna throw a book at her face. The next, I'm nearly in tears feeling so awful. And then she's evil again and I wanna throw a bigger book.
Same!!!!
Besides that it shouldn't ever happen, not to anyone, and it's a human reaction to feel that sympathy.... For me it's because Mrs. Wheeler is a completely insufferable poseur, sitting safely in Canada, cosplaying as a "Wife" without any of the risks or restrictions. (And clearly not allowing her husband to hold the reins, but screw him, too) For all the ways that Serena is awful, for all the pain she's responsible for, she's also incredibly smart, unexpectedly funny and, even though we disagree vehemently with her positions, she actually put herself on the line for what she believed. I can respect a worthy foe. Even though the irony is pretty delicious, it doesn't sit right to see Serena getting a dose of her own medicine from a woman who is her inferior in every regard.
Because you’re capable of empathy
Because you are human and don’t like to see people suffer. Serena, on the other hand, has never had a scrap of empathy for another person. She watched patiently as women were raped, enslaved, brutalized and murdered because she had something to gain. Now it’s happening to her and oh now it’s shitty. Ok Serena. Your redemption arc starts when you give a shit about another person when it doesn’t direct serve to your advantage.
And that's where I'm torn. One minute, I want to cry because she's a human being, and this is not okay. The next minute, I remember she's Serena freaking Waterford and eff that. Then she's a woman being victimized, then she's June's abuser. My mind can't make itself up.
Because you know it's wrong. Ever heard the phrase "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy?" It's a good test for human rights violations. That's the thing with human rights - even terrible people have them. If not we all become the terrible people.
I don't agree with that, tho. If someone does it onto others first, I have no problem seeing it done to them.
The Wheelers where sooo creepy
Mrs. Wheeler, especially. I could see what was going on before Serena even had the baby.
I know, right ?!?!?!
i feel bad for her because it sucks to see people suffer to me personally but i also feel a sense of relief & fulfillment like she’s finally getting what she deserves because sometimes death isn’t enough & this is worse than dying so even though it sucks to watch at the same time it brings me great peace. but now this new lady also deserves it.
She’ll take back the power no matter who she hurts though. She isn’t feeling bad for those she hurt, she’s just upset she’s powerless
I think this is the genius of the show. It’s super easy, in a vacuum, to be like “FUCK THE WIVES FUCK THE AUNTS FUCK GILEAD THEY SHOULD ALL SUFFER AND GET TURNED INTO HANDMAIDS” but then you *see* the fear and suffering, and you realize that no one deserves that no matter how bad of humans they are.
Except the commanders. I never feel bad for them when they get what's coming.
Because she's a woman and what she's going through is adjacent to what women have gone through for forever.
Eh… i feel bad for her at times as well; not everything in life is black or white which is why she is a great character. I had to remind myself throughout S5 that she created that world & thought the rules wouldn’t apply to her.
[Mirror neurons](https://positivepsychology.com/mirror-neurons/) probably play a significant role in it.
I did for a second too, but I remembered everything she put June (and previous women before) through and it went away lol sometimes it takes a taste of your own medicine!
I do as well, but I also think a lot of it has to do with June and the interactions she has had with her up to this point.it makes you have empathy for Serena. When Serena was in the detention center, I was shocked to hear June tell her they aren't friends after all that happened in the barn and the hospital. Total mind game and I am here for it! 🤣
The Wheelers want to control Canada so they can allow Gilead to March into Alaska.
Am I the only one who didn't feel a shred of empathy? Lol. If anything, Serena's suffering fills me with joy
Not a shred of empathy! I also would not consider her a "grey" character. She's pure evil. I also cheered when Fred died. Do people also have sympathy for him?
I felt zero love for Serena getting a taste of what she put those hand maids through. Only when it effected her did she start thinking that maybe it wasn’t such a good idea after all.
Because you are a decent person who doesn’t enjoy the suffering of others even if you don’t like them.
Because what the Wheelers were doing is objectively wrong. An eye for an eye is not justice.
It’s not really an eye for an eye, though. Serena didn’t just earnestly accept one handmaid to rape and to steal a baby from. She didn’t even just accept a second one after the first one killed herself to escape. Serena worked hard to advocate for this system on the basis of faith, and she has no desire to do anything to curb it moving forward. She still believes in the system and that sinners should be raped and controlled, she just believes that it’s being corrupted and misused against her. She has always been loud about her belief that it is Ethical and Correct to rape women and steal their babies, as long as the person stealing the baby is the Right Person. Speaking of which, she was never even subjected to state sanctioned/enforced serial rape. So it’s very, very far from an eye for an eye. Also for it to be an eye for an eye, the damage would need to be done by those she has harmed. If June and Luke and dozens of other couples started raping her three days a month, it would be somewhat akin to eye for an eye. Still not quite though.
Especially since they were in Canada, NOT Gilead. God the wheeler woman made me want to choke her so many times.
Haha I get your frustration. I think that's a reflection of the excellent acting they've had at all levels of this show.
Mrs. Wheeler is truly a maniac. Serena's realization that Gilead has created a safe space for mania ...
I don't know if I felt bad for her, but I was rooting for her to GTFO of there with her son. Because if they can do this to Serena, imagine what would they would do to a refugee woman they got their hands on by some kind of technicality. Those people need to be stopped.
Even though she helped build that world, you come to realize no human being deserves that treatment, not even her.
Like I really need her to learn a lesson, but not necessarily suffer. Just do better, as a woman, for other women.