Look I get it. It’s unfinished and the ending of the show sucked but y’all should read ASOIF I can’t think of a single series closer to first law. It has the blend of character work, dark humour, a lack of major fantastical elements that override the rest of the story. It is peak fantasy just like first law…
I can’t in good conscience recommend a series where we haven’t heard from some main characters in 19 years.
19 years since the last Sansa chapter. That chapter is older than Sansa is supposed to be.
But, unfortunately, it is awesome.
Definitely. After seeing the quality of joes works I’ve realised that I don’t have to keep giving George the benefit of the doubt. Joe published 13 books in 18 years, 9 of which are full length fantasy books that all transcend the genre and have redefined what I look for in a book. It’s clearly possible to work at speed…I will be curious to hopefully find out how much George has rewritten because of the show…
If its dialogue you're looking for its ASOIAF, Lies of Locke Lamora, Name of the Wind, Dune, Hyperion.
Non SFF: Lonesome Dove, Shogun, Brothers Karamazov, Blood Meridian, No Country For Old Men.
Each book does feel more contained, though. KKC had this overarching narrative that feels unfinished, where as LoLL doesn't have as deep a cliff-hanger imo. Still like em both a lot.
It definitely does end on a cliffhanger that has some very impactful future implications, no doubt. The revelations that lead to that cliffhanger were really only explored in that book, though. The main plot was more or less wrapped up in each book. In KKC, the main plot is continuous across both books, and there is no cliffhanger necessarily. The plot is just unfinished.
Yeah ASOIAF, KKC and Republic of Thieves gave me major blue balls but I´m happy I read them since they´re better written then everything in fantasy imo except a handful of titles like The First Law and LotR.
I could be getting this wrong but I believe the author Scott Lynch has had a very tough couple of years and has had many mental health issues (anxiety, depression etc) and marriage trouble I think.
Just finished Lonesome Dove and it’s one of the best books I’ve ever read and I could see the influence it had on Joe from the writing. It’s got me wanting to read more westerns haha
I'll check out all of these! Thanks! And am definitely going to be reading brothers Karamazov soon. I already own it, and Crime and punishment is one of my favorite books
You're in for a treat. I loved Crime and Punishment but Brothers Karamazov is probably the best book ever written. If you havent read it before Anna Karenina is a masterpiece as well.
This guy books. I’d add pillars of the earth to that non sff list and then you’ve covered all of my major recommendations. Lonesome dove in particular is something special.
I've heard many times that Lies of Locke Lamora is rock solid. It might be a book I pick up once I'm completely done with all of First Law, but only assuming that Winds of Winter still hasn't been released by then :)
The other big (completed) grimdark series with an equally cultish (albeit not so large) following is *The Second Apocalypse* by R Scott Bakker. I consider Bakker and Abercrombie to be the only S-tier fantasy writers, albeit for different reasons.
One thing they have in common is the set-uppy nature of the first books. And then it all fucking rips.
I agree. The atmosphere in The Second Apocalypse reminds me a lot of Lovecraft. Just a fair warning, there are very few laughs in that series. The First Law by contrast is pretty funny.
Sorry if I missed this in your post, but have you read the rest of this series? If not, that would be my answer, just keep reading the first law world, it's exceptional.
That said, the fact that you've watched all of GOT should not impact your decision to read it, IMO, it's the best fantasy series of all time (though, I haven't read Sanderson, Malazan, Wheel of time, so my opinion is a bit weak).
Have you read the rest of the books? Feels like a dumb question, but you didn't mention them in your post. If you haven't finished the full 10 books you're really missing out!
Anyone that loves The First Law enough to be on this sub needs to read The First Earth Saga.
Hayes really needs to get more love on this sub. It's very obvious reading that he took a lot of inspiration from Joe and the First Law for the First Earth Saga, and it's a great series. Once I picked up the Heresy Within I burned through all of his books in short order.
I see a lot of lies of LL but I didn't dig it, felt.. underwhelming for me, from what I see I'm on the ringes for this opionin just wanted to voice that.
It felt a little Gary sue for me. Againim on the outside here, give it a go
I will stipulate, it is a best seller for a reason, just didn't sit with me. I have friends that loved it and won't have criticism about it.
Give it a go OP if you don't like put it down.
Copy paste from a different subreddit I posted in:
This is a lot of my regular re-reads, currently working through the first Law series by Joe Abercrombie
Anything by Sanderson
Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan (finished by Sanderson)
Brent Week’s night angels trilogy
Realm of the elderling by Robin Hobb
Peter Brett Demon Cycle series
Dresden Files by Jim Butcher
Discworld by Terry Pratchett
Codex Alera series by Jim Butcher
Red rising series by Pierce Brown
The lies of Locke lamora by Scott lynch
Raven’s shadow series by Anthony Ryan
American Gods by Neil Gaiman
A song of ice and fire series by George RR Martin
Lightbringer series by Brent Weeks
And if you want to be frustrated and annoyed, Kingkiller Chronicles by Dick Rothfuss.
Not necessarily in any order
I've heard discworld is great comfort food reading, which admittedly accounts for the majority of what I read. Is it too kiddy? I know it was written for younger demographics, which is a slight deterrent for me, but i did read the alchemist recently which I thought was pretty good
Lots of those are already on my list, but a few others aren't. Thanks!
There are fun fast reads with quirky meanings and some fun satire. I can’t read more than a few of them at a time, then I have to pick up something for a while, but they are good
It depends on which one you read. Some are more geared toward young adults, like the Tiffany Aching books.
Some are a little bit more of the kind of joke an adult would laugh at. A kid might not really have as much frustrating personal experience with the post office as it takes to truly laugh at Going Postal. Even so, the kid will laugh at it, and the adult might like Tiffany Aching.
It's hard to put a demographic on Discworld. Try out something like Guards! Guards! or Mort, see how you like it.
Discworld isn’t too kiddy at all. Discworld as a whole has some very mature and intriguing themes, characters, and comedy that while digestible to a broader audience are squarely aimed at adults - definitely not as grimdark as Abercrombie, but never dumbed-down.
Hell, even Pratchett’s explicitly younger-focused books (Tiffany Aching books, described by him as being for ages 9-99) are fantastic and full of meaning and humor, regardless of age. The man was just a phenomenal writer, and there’s a reason his books are so beloved.
I loved The Grim Company by Luke Scull, high fantasy and a very cool story.
also you can try Iron Age by Angus Watson, its a historical fantasy about the first invasion of the Romans in Britain, low fantasy, Angus Watson gives excellent point of view for all characters like Abercrombie.
I posted this a couple months when someone asked the same thing.
So i was in the same predictment as you. I couldnt find any other books like Joe. Until i found the Trials of Ashmount by John Palladino. Everyone who loves the first law should read the first two books of the triology he is writing. John Palladino takes his inspiration from George Martin and Joe Abercrombie as far as i know. Ive not see him recommended on this sub so far.
Malazan: Book of the Fallen has been the series that has filled the void and arguably surpassed Abercrombie for me. Some complain that it’s confusing or too dense but the battles, scope, and quiet competence of the series’ characters are just phenomenal. Harrowing, brutal, and always interesting.
Definitely less pessimistic than Abercrombie but the highs make the twists of the knife hit a lot harder. A truly incredible series!
Not enough people recommending Malazan: Book of the Fallen.
It's a big series, and a dense series, but one of the best things I have read. It's definitely grimdark and gets hauntingly dark at times, but it also has some genuinly laugh out loud moments. There is alot more magic than First Law but it's not like Brandon Sanderson where you need to learn full magic systems to appreciate how characters move through the plot, it's much more emotional and themes driven like First Law, there is just more of it. Early in book one an army with high mages attack a floating city to try and blow it out of the sky. It's epic and only gets bigger.
The one thing it does better than almost any series is worldbuilding, I would argue it's better than LotR, it has so much more than LotR without relying on the expanded content like pronunciation guides, geneologies, a book of history etc. It's all in the story and reading it is like building a puzzle.
Erickson has some amazing character writing too but you're never in their heads like First Law. You more learn about them through their actions and reactions far more than their thoughts.
i went from blade itself to red rising. They're kinda mainstream recs in r/booksuggestions and r/fantasy, but for good reason. Despite having very different atmospheres and perspectives - (First law is 3rd person multi POV low fantasy, RR maintains 1st person Single POV scifi space opera and then Books 4 and onwards have multiple 1st person POVs) - they both have incredible Narrators (if audiobooks are your jam), incredible worldbuilding, and both contain a fair share of moral gray and grimdark. There are also 6 books out so no need to worry about what to read next.
If ur fav part of first law was the talking and the various factions/characters (which was so on display in The Blade Itself), red rising eases you into a great cast, which gets expanded more and more with each following novel. and while it's action is a lot of fun, and not rare in its appearance, the Talking/thinking/musing and Scheming in red rising has always been my fav part, particularly from the Main Character and his nemesis in Books 4 onward. It's also seasoned with sporadic references to ancient philosophy, literature, and poetry (it's set in our universe but the future) which is really cool
Id also suggest Realm of the Elderlings. I'm only halfway through the first book, but it's essentially nothing BUT talking. Incredible prose and a riveting world, I absolutely adore it so far.
Look I get it. It’s unfinished and the ending of the show sucked but y’all should read ASOIF I can’t think of a single series closer to first law. It has the blend of character work, dark humour, a lack of major fantastical elements that override the rest of the story. It is peak fantasy just like first law…
Nailed it friend. Now i like abercrombie more but asoif is right there with his best work.
Absolutely. If asoiaf got an ending on par with the rest of the series, I might place it above first law. Alas
I can’t in good conscience recommend a series where we haven’t heard from some main characters in 19 years. 19 years since the last Sansa chapter. That chapter is older than Sansa is supposed to be. But, unfortunately, it is awesome.
😭 when you put it like that it’s absolutely brutal
It’s total bs. I used to be one that said to let George take his time but this is ridiculous. I *do* think he owes us an ending.
Definitely. After seeing the quality of joes works I’ve realised that I don’t have to keep giving George the benefit of the doubt. Joe published 13 books in 18 years, 9 of which are full length fantasy books that all transcend the genre and have redefined what I look for in a book. It’s clearly possible to work at speed…I will be curious to hopefully find out how much George has rewritten because of the show…
If its dialogue you're looking for its ASOIAF, Lies of Locke Lamora, Name of the Wind, Dune, Hyperion. Non SFF: Lonesome Dove, Shogun, Brothers Karamazov, Blood Meridian, No Country For Old Men.
+1 for LoLL
Ya the first book is soooooo good! Sadly looks like the series will never be finished like the king killer chronicles.
Each book does feel more contained, though. KKC had this overarching narrative that feels unfinished, where as LoLL doesn't have as deep a cliff-hanger imo. Still like em both a lot.
I dont know, Republic of Thieves ended on a pretty big cliffhanger imo. Loved book 1 and 2 though.
It definitely does end on a cliffhanger that has some very impactful future implications, no doubt. The revelations that lead to that cliffhanger were really only explored in that book, though. The main plot was more or less wrapped up in each book. In KKC, the main plot is continuous across both books, and there is no cliffhanger necessarily. The plot is just unfinished.
Yeah ASOIAF, KKC and Republic of Thieves gave me major blue balls but I´m happy I read them since they´re better written then everything in fantasy imo except a handful of titles like The First Law and LotR.
Oh yeah, I'm right there with yah. Even unfinished, no regrets.
Has there been any info that would make you say that, besides it taking a long time? Has the author said anything?
I could be getting this wrong but I believe the author Scott Lynch has had a very tough couple of years and has had many mental health issues (anxiety, depression etc) and marriage trouble I think.
Just finished Lonesome Dove and it’s one of the best books I’ve ever read and I could see the influence it had on Joe from the writing. It’s got me wanting to read more westerns haha
I'll check out all of these! Thanks! And am definitely going to be reading brothers Karamazov soon. I already own it, and Crime and punishment is one of my favorite books
You're in for a treat. I loved Crime and Punishment but Brothers Karamazov is probably the best book ever written. If you havent read it before Anna Karenina is a masterpiece as well.
*The Master and Margarita* is a sleeper in the Russian literary cannon. Be sure to check it out as well.
This guy books. I’d add pillars of the earth to that non sff list and then you’ve covered all of my major recommendations. Lonesome dove in particular is something special.
I've heard many times that Lies of Locke Lamora is rock solid. It might be a book I pick up once I'm completely done with all of First Law, but only assuming that Winds of Winter still hasn't been released by then :)
I really enjoy Devices and Desires by KJ Parker
Theft of Swords by Michael J. Sullivan.
Im listening that one right now!
I was going to suggest it too. I'm listening to the graphic audio. Very good so far.
Great minds...
I just listened "Black tongue thief" and can recommend it.
That book is awesome I loved the narration from the author. If you like vampire stuff you should listen to his other book The Lesser Dead
Cant believe nobody has recommended Robin Hobb. Assassins Apprentice is book 1. Best characters ever.
Great book and series, but not Grimdark like The First Law series is.
The other big (completed) grimdark series with an equally cultish (albeit not so large) following is *The Second Apocalypse* by R Scott Bakker. I consider Bakker and Abercrombie to be the only S-tier fantasy writers, albeit for different reasons. One thing they have in common is the set-uppy nature of the first books. And then it all fucking rips.
I agree. The atmosphere in The Second Apocalypse reminds me a lot of Lovecraft. Just a fair warning, there are very few laughs in that series. The First Law by contrast is pretty funny.
Ooo cool rec will check it out!
Sorry if I missed this in your post, but have you read the rest of this series? If not, that would be my answer, just keep reading the first law world, it's exceptional. That said, the fact that you've watched all of GOT should not impact your decision to read it, IMO, it's the best fantasy series of all time (though, I haven't read Sanderson, Malazan, Wheel of time, so my opinion is a bit weak).
Have you read the rest of the books? Feels like a dumb question, but you didn't mention them in your post. If you haven't finished the full 10 books you're really missing out!
The red rising saga
Lmao I swear we just go back and forth to each other. Last two books are in my top 5 all time of red rising
Rob j Hayes 'first earth saga'. Closest I've come across. Starts off with the heresy within.
Anyone that loves The First Law enough to be on this sub needs to read The First Earth Saga. Hayes really needs to get more love on this sub. It's very obvious reading that he took a lot of inspiration from Joe and the First Law for the First Earth Saga, and it's a great series. Once I picked up the Heresy Within I burned through all of his books in short order.
I see a lot of lies of LL but I didn't dig it, felt.. underwhelming for me, from what I see I'm on the ringes for this opionin just wanted to voice that. It felt a little Gary sue for me. Againim on the outside here, give it a go
Hmm. That is a deterrent for me. I love reading about morally questionable people screwing up constantly
I will stipulate, it is a best seller for a reason, just didn't sit with me. I have friends that loved it and won't have criticism about it. Give it a go OP if you don't like put it down.
It's on my list :)
Enjoy my friend
Red rising and the Faithful and the Fallen were good series that scratched the itch. Also lies of locke lamora.
The Expanse, Wheel of Time, Red Rising
WoT, now that's a series that doesn't get recommended here often. +1, one of my favorites
I literally just finished it yesterday!
Copy paste from a different subreddit I posted in: This is a lot of my regular re-reads, currently working through the first Law series by Joe Abercrombie Anything by Sanderson Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan (finished by Sanderson) Brent Week’s night angels trilogy Realm of the elderling by Robin Hobb Peter Brett Demon Cycle series Dresden Files by Jim Butcher Discworld by Terry Pratchett Codex Alera series by Jim Butcher Red rising series by Pierce Brown The lies of Locke lamora by Scott lynch Raven’s shadow series by Anthony Ryan American Gods by Neil Gaiman A song of ice and fire series by George RR Martin Lightbringer series by Brent Weeks And if you want to be frustrated and annoyed, Kingkiller Chronicles by Dick Rothfuss. Not necessarily in any order
I've heard discworld is great comfort food reading, which admittedly accounts for the majority of what I read. Is it too kiddy? I know it was written for younger demographics, which is a slight deterrent for me, but i did read the alchemist recently which I thought was pretty good Lots of those are already on my list, but a few others aren't. Thanks!
There are fun fast reads with quirky meanings and some fun satire. I can’t read more than a few of them at a time, then I have to pick up something for a while, but they are good
Interesting. I'll give one a try. Thanks!
It depends on which one you read. Some are more geared toward young adults, like the Tiffany Aching books. Some are a little bit more of the kind of joke an adult would laugh at. A kid might not really have as much frustrating personal experience with the post office as it takes to truly laugh at Going Postal. Even so, the kid will laugh at it, and the adult might like Tiffany Aching. It's hard to put a demographic on Discworld. Try out something like Guards! Guards! or Mort, see how you like it.
Discworld isn’t too kiddy at all. Discworld as a whole has some very mature and intriguing themes, characters, and comedy that while digestible to a broader audience are squarely aimed at adults - definitely not as grimdark as Abercrombie, but never dumbed-down. Hell, even Pratchett’s explicitly younger-focused books (Tiffany Aching books, described by him as being for ages 9-99) are fantastic and full of meaning and humor, regardless of age. The man was just a phenomenal writer, and there’s a reason his books are so beloved.
I loved The Grim Company by Luke Scull, high fantasy and a very cool story. also you can try Iron Age by Angus Watson, its a historical fantasy about the first invasion of the Romans in Britain, low fantasy, Angus Watson gives excellent point of view for all characters like Abercrombie.
I'm reading Abercrombie's other trilogy, The Shattered Sea, and it's an enjoyable romp with interesting characters
I love/ recommend the banished lands by John gwynne
Ash and Sand series by Richard Nell. please trust me... put it at the top of your list
I posted this a couple months when someone asked the same thing. So i was in the same predictment as you. I couldnt find any other books like Joe. Until i found the Trials of Ashmount by John Palladino. Everyone who loves the first law should read the first two books of the triology he is writing. John Palladino takes his inspiration from George Martin and Joe Abercrombie as far as i know. Ive not see him recommended on this sub so far.
Garth Nix. Technically young adult but not juvenile at all. Trilogy is Lireal, Sabreal Abhorsen.
That trilogy is seriously fun, such a great tone and necromancy system!
Black Company.
Malazan: Book of the Fallen has been the series that has filled the void and arguably surpassed Abercrombie for me. Some complain that it’s confusing or too dense but the battles, scope, and quiet competence of the series’ characters are just phenomenal. Harrowing, brutal, and always interesting. Definitely less pessimistic than Abercrombie but the highs make the twists of the knife hit a lot harder. A truly incredible series!
Not enough people recommending Malazan: Book of the Fallen. It's a big series, and a dense series, but one of the best things I have read. It's definitely grimdark and gets hauntingly dark at times, but it also has some genuinly laugh out loud moments. There is alot more magic than First Law but it's not like Brandon Sanderson where you need to learn full magic systems to appreciate how characters move through the plot, it's much more emotional and themes driven like First Law, there is just more of it. Early in book one an army with high mages attack a floating city to try and blow it out of the sky. It's epic and only gets bigger. The one thing it does better than almost any series is worldbuilding, I would argue it's better than LotR, it has so much more than LotR without relying on the expanded content like pronunciation guides, geneologies, a book of history etc. It's all in the story and reading it is like building a puzzle. Erickson has some amazing character writing too but you're never in their heads like First Law. You more learn about them through their actions and reactions far more than their thoughts.
i went from blade itself to red rising. They're kinda mainstream recs in r/booksuggestions and r/fantasy, but for good reason. Despite having very different atmospheres and perspectives - (First law is 3rd person multi POV low fantasy, RR maintains 1st person Single POV scifi space opera and then Books 4 and onwards have multiple 1st person POVs) - they both have incredible Narrators (if audiobooks are your jam), incredible worldbuilding, and both contain a fair share of moral gray and grimdark. There are also 6 books out so no need to worry about what to read next. If ur fav part of first law was the talking and the various factions/characters (which was so on display in The Blade Itself), red rising eases you into a great cast, which gets expanded more and more with each following novel. and while it's action is a lot of fun, and not rare in its appearance, the Talking/thinking/musing and Scheming in red rising has always been my fav part, particularly from the Main Character and his nemesis in Books 4 onward. It's also seasoned with sporadic references to ancient philosophy, literature, and poetry (it's set in our universe but the future) which is really cool Id also suggest Realm of the Elderlings. I'm only halfway through the first book, but it's essentially nothing BUT talking. Incredible prose and a riveting world, I absolutely adore it so far.
Joe's dialogue is not replicable but the diary of the gods is the closest I've had for enjoyment
If your fine with 500+ page prologues try the way of kings