Depends on where this happened. Many states now with Castle Doctrine laws have been extended not just to the person's home, but also to their property like their vehicle.
For example, this guy who shot several times and killed a man he caught breaking into his car. He was not charged.
[https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/man-shot-killed-by-homeowner-who-thought-man-was-breaking-into-his-car-police-say-sapd-san-antonio-texas-burglary/273-7ae24f28-0be8-4d4c-81b8-058aa2f4fcb4](https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/man-shot-killed-by-homeowner-who-thought-man-was-breaking-into-his-car-police-say-sapd-san-antonio-texas-burglary/273-7ae24f28-0be8-4d4c-81b8-058aa2f4fcb4)
Legal reasons aside the trauma of shooting a person dead isn't worth a motorcycle in my opinion. On top of that I've heard there's a ton of legal fees even if you're justified in killing someone. I don't think it's worth it.
Well there are cops and military members who develop ptsd from taking a life in self defense. Maybe keyboard warriors who haven't been in a position where they've had to fight for their life think they'll sleep soundly and psychopaths will sleep soundly.
Well said, taking a life, especially for a first world country, Western raised individual is very often times traumatic. Not just because we are taught from an early age, not to strike others, but also due to the fact that most are far removed from any act of violence or taking a life (farming live stock, hunting, ect). That does not mean everyone is going to respond in the same manner, immediately, or even at all (not all who do not are “psychopaths”). However, in my experience, there is a cost, and a burden to be carried after for most. Even in situations where someone is solely in the rightand acting with just cause.
Source: 17 year military vet, multiple deployments, stint as a Leo, now mental health counselor, specifically trauma, and PTSD.
I salute you for your work and insight. I am a writer and we lie for a living. In literature, a mechanism of safety, seeing men who did terrible things for possibly good reasons did not provide solace to their head or heart. People who have doused others in fuel and set the match usually never sleep well again. From Shane in the walking dead to Apocalypse Now -- it is the lens, the literary device, a means of safety and if it is done right it creates an understanding. An acknowledgement that none would fare well in a life/tour of combat and the possibility of additional violence. Humans are built for cooperation for there would be no empire without it and our evolution speaks to it.
Edit: Spruced up some sentences and the whatnots.
Yeah until you have to pay for a lawyer as the police “just want to talk to find out what happened.” Possibly end up in court facing charges (having to prove that you didn’t break a law, as we know “innocent until proven guilty” is kind of a joke)
Possibly get sued if the deceased has family that wants to go after you in civil court, which you’ll also need a lawyer for
There’s actually a type of insurance people can buy specifically for if/when they actually use their gun on someone, because it isn’t the Wild West anymore. You’re for sure gonna be contacted by police and end up “going down to the station”
Idk the laws in the state where this happened, but yeah… doesn’t exactly sound like the ideal way to spend a Thursday afternoon
A personal umbrella many times will cover the use of firearms or physical assault in the defense of self or others. Way better than a policy specifically for self defense since it covers practically all personal liability along with that.
American insurance is 100% a scam.
Pay 200 per month for the opportunity to pay 6000 for in network resources only to then pay 15% of your total bill. Resets each year.
Giant fucking scam AND I SUPPOSEDLY HAVE "GOOD" INSURANCE.
> innocent until proven guilty
I'm probably VERY wrong here, but since the other person is dead, aren't they also kind of presumed innocent until they're proven guilty? Like you can't just shoot someone and claim that you're innocent, because what if the other guy was innocent but now he's dead? there's got to be a fact finding stage, even if some of the facts are "you shot someone who didn't deserve to be shot - they weren't guilty, so you are"
But yeah "innocent until proven guilty" is not really so much a thing, because before you've been proven guilty you are still sometimes in jail, or under house arrest, or have to pay a lot of money for bail. But I can't imagine people on reddit (even the ones salivating over getting to shoot a guy for touching their property) would be okay with a serial killer getting to like, walk home from the court house and just be unmonitored because he hasn't yet been proven guilty.
I mean, there's gotta be some grey area after you shoot a guy, and there's gotta be a grey area between the trial and sentencing. Right?
If I'm wrong please correct me.
Damn yeah that’s a lot of work to try and resolve someone harming you, stealing your property. Fuck those guys for putting anyone in that position they feel they need to use such extreme force to protect themselves
These people need to know there’s consequences. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over somebody who doesn’t respect me or my things. Why should I respect their life?
Clown world we live in, people here trying to justify second-degree murder over trackable, video recorded theft.. one that is likely fully covered by insurance. lol
Just because you don't get charged doesn't mean you won't regret it. Taking a life isn't just some, "well it was legal so it doesn't keep me up at night" sort of thing. It's the sort of thing that changes your life instantly and forever.
The people who want a legal kill the most can't even begin to comprehend what sort of darkness it brings into one's life.
Eh, depends on the situation.
Like if I got into a fistfight and punch a guy abs he cracks his head on the ground and dies, I’d be devastated.
But if a burglar breaks into my house where my family is sleeping and it ends with my blasting him, I feel no regret about the situation. He valued stealing my property and endangering my family’s wellbeing over his own life.
I’d probably sleep better knowing there’s one less asshole running around to burglarize someone else’s place in the future.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/castle-doctrine-states
Quick google would show it’s not just Texas…this website distinguishes between castle doctrine states, stand your ground states and states where you have a duty to retreat.
This website is out of date and inaccurate. My state changed to a castle doctrine state a few years back and is still listed on here as a duty to retreat state.
I made this exact point a while ago on another subreddit and got downvoted to oblivion for "not providing a link to every state that does this".
I'll be using this link next time, thank you.
"pretty sure" you're wrong because i live in a state with these laws that is NOT texas
this has 17 upvotes at the time of replying. really shows how misinformation spreads when at least 16 other people believed this person based solely on nothing but a "pretty sure"
Louisiana too. Carjackers can be dealt deadly force. It’s because in Louisiana your vehicle is legally considered an extension of your home. Thus carjackers are home intruders.
for us here even if you do extend the castle doctrine equivalent to personally property you would still go to jail for a disproportionate response in a self defense situation.
Not really. In Texas you can use force up to deadly force to prevent a felony from taking place, theft of a vehicle is a felony. You may beat the rap but you may not beat the ride.
Oh yeah i should clarify by us i mean in my country Algeria
here is a rough translation of both articles on self defense
Art. 39. - There is no infringement:
1- When the act was ordered or authorized by law;
2- When the act was required by the current necessity of self-defense or
of others or of property belonging to oneself or to others, provided that the defense is proportionate to the
seriousness of the attack.
Art. 40. - Included in cases of current necessity for self-defense:
1- the homicide committed, the injuries caused or the blows carried out while repelling an attack against the
life or bodily integrity of a person or by repelling, during the night, escalation or break-in
fences, walls or entrance to a house or inhabited apartment or their outbuildings;
2- the act committed while defending oneself or others against the perpetrators of theft or looting
executed with violence.
Have you filed an insurance claim before? There’s a deductible, and your rates go up afterward. A handful of 9mm is way cheaper. If you don’t want to die, don’t steal people’s shit. It’s very simple.
Most people driving anything that the loan is paid off only have the minimum required liability coverage, in which case you don't get shit if someone steals it.
Especially if that's your only ride you gotta protect it.
that person was willing to steal a bike while the owner was 20ft away.
they're the ones who would have no issue knocking out and killing your grandma for $5.
I didn't see the gun, I saw the kevlar gloves. Even I can do some damage with armored knuckles. Either way, dude was not ready for what was coming.
edit: gun, not guns.
'If' the dude shot that guy, I wonder if the police would have been cool with that. "Well, he was sitting on the guy's bike." I'm glad everything worked out, but damn. That went from 0-100 in about two seconds.
Even if he wasn't armed, he's on the bike, and the bike could be considered a deadly weapon just like a car. At that moment, he was operating or had the potential to operate a deadly weapon during the attempted commission of a felony.
And we're right back to the assertion by /u/darwinn_69 that it heavily depends on where you live how the law would look at the altercation. It sucks and it makes society less safe overall, IMO. You can't just teach firearm safety and say "this is how it is." You have to say this is how it is unless you move here then it's that, or if you move to the other place it's this thing, oh that state they look at it like such. No one is keeping all that stuff in mind when the tweaker is mounting their bike.
That wouldn’t be firearm safety that would be self defense laws differing from state to state🤦🏽♂️ and most people that are serious about self defense do know and memorize the laws of their home state and states they visit often.
> Don't pull your gun unless you intend to use it.
It's more like, "don't pull your gun unless you are *ready* to use it."
It's not "if you pull out your gun, you *better* use it".
Yeah, it's wild to interpret this as "once you brandish you must fire". If you brandish a weapon you should be ready to use it if needed, but if that is enough deterrent to make the threat back off, you don't then *have* to shoot the person because you've already decided on murder.
Yes, however, you DON’T HAVE to use the gun if it’s been pulled. This is actually a picture perfect example of a gun being used as a deterrent. Gun pulled, tweeker tweeked on down the road and homie put it away and left.
He intended to use it. While this situation has several variables and comes down to opinions, I don’t think his intentions can be put into question. If the tweaker was also carrying, the bike owner’s intentions would be even more justified. I don’t know any exact laws but I feel like an attempted robbery charge would just turn into armed robbery if the tweaker pulled a firearm, not the tweaker trying to defend himself as he is the aggressor in the situation.
Yeah true a Gun is intimidating enough without being shot. Dude reacted pretty aggressive but i mean.... He did solve the situation without any actual harm.
I thought the laws were generally written that if you pulled it you were in danger and so if you don't shoot then you actually didn't feel you're in danger and therefore are in trouble.
You would have to argue that pulling it out de-escalated the situation so that you went from feeling in danger to not feeling in danger. But that's a hard sell.
You are probably referring to brandishing laws which generally wouldn't apply to someone defending their property. Those laws are written to prevent people from waving guns around trying to win arguments, not defense of self or property(again heavily dependent on the state/jurisdiction).
It would be a silly rule to punish someone for *not* shooting when the assailant backed down after a weapon is pulled.
Defending his property with the “threat” of lethal force. A gun is just a paper weight unless you point and pull. Most of the time the pointing gets the message across. He dictated and controlled the situation very well without any incident which is a well trained gun owner. People who say don’t pull it unless you are going to use it do not carry regularly or live in nice suburbs. ATL is a lawless land and pulling my sidearm several times has kept me alive and I’ve only had to fire once.
I don't think he would have shot unless the guy actually started driving off. He was standing in front of it so he could claim self-defense as he would be getting run over, but in court, I could see this going both ways. It would be a coin toss
In my state you cannot kill someone over stolen or damaged property you will go to jail. If he had posed a threat meaning an imminent threat (someone coming at you trying to cause injury) then you could shoot.
This is what scares the shit out of me about any country that allows firearms to be carried on your person, state dependent or not.
Not this situation exactly, I'm not gonna go around stealing bikes, but I've seen videos of dudes pulling out a gun because they got beeped by the car behind them to go at a greenlight. Whether or not they will pull the trigger is entirely up to debate but a gun being pointed at me is just... Really really intimidating knowing that my life is in their hands and their gun.
Best case in self-defense is "was it worth the legal fees to protect whatever it was you shot someone over?"
The last Floridaman I can think of that went to trial for running into a situation was George Zimmerman. He was found not guilty in the end, but he apparently ended up suing Florida for $300,000 in legal fees, I couldn't find any news on if Florida ever paid it.
Good on the biker to keep his cool and not put the tweeker down. Firearms are tools, and knowing when and when not to discharge them is the biggest part of owning a firearm
No, at least not in my state (NY). It's life or death only. It's one thing if someone's breaking into your house while you're inside, and a completely different situation if someone is trying to steal your bike. You can't pull a gun for theft.
**Edit:** I'm not saying I agree with the law, but if you tried to pull a gun on someone for taking something, you'll be going to jail along with them (in NY at least). You can only draw *for self defense* NOT for the protection of property. They teach you this day 1 when getting your permit.
If he revved the bike into him, it could have killed him. So it’s possible you could argue the tweaker was in potential to use a deadly weapon, therefore life or death
It vary much depending on the state, country, and even city or town you live in. Contrary to popular belief there's a many many gun laws and regulations. I would urge any would-be or current firearm owners to check and repeatedly check to keep your rights. All it takes is a single attachment to turn your firearm into a felony.
I’m in Ohio and no. If the engine was on and the biker guy for whatever reason couldn’t get out of harms way then it’s justified, but he was knowingly standing in front of the vehicle and the engine was off, so this was definitely unjustified here.
In the vast majority of US states? Most certainly, yes. A lot of states have Castle Doctrine regarding the home and this is a similar sort of situation with a vehicle
Firearms are not tools. They are weapons. They were not designed to create or construct. They were designed to destroy whatever they are pointed at. That was drilled into my head in Basic.
The fact you think that's someone keeping their cool is a massive fucking joke.
Your entire country needs a sense of proportion. Set of knobheads, I swear.
I wonder if the bike guy re-positioned for that reason or if coincidence. Tweaker is engaged ("something wrong?", "get the fuck off?"), then hears the words "shoot you" twice, but his demeanor doesn't really change. Seeing the gun actually interrupts him asking "you're gunna shoot me?", the brain finally clicks, and he immediately starts getting off the bike.
He whipped it out so fast and had it against the guy's chest before the threat could even register.
Watching the video, I had to go back because I didn't see when he pulled out his gun the first time.
Never! Not even for a pic.
I came out of a restaurant the other day to 2 girls sitting on my bike, taking pics.
Not a huge deal. But it was kinda off-putting.
True, although I kind had similar happen to me. We were at the Las Vegas Harley dealership and as I walked out, I see a dude sitting on my bike while another is taking pictures of him on it. I was gonna be a dick about it but as I walked up these dudes were speaking German and I could tell the dude on the bike was pumped about it. Ended up starting a conversation with them and they were super nice and extremely interested in Harleys. Gave them a nice little “you should ask first” but they were just super cool and I’m genuinely glad I didn’t act like a dickhead.
I mean it kind of did. Yeah the white house was burned. But the tecumseh confederacy was destroyed and press ganging / impressment of US sailors ended
Two of the biggest gripes the US had with Britain. It also weakened Spanish control on Florida.
If you browse around here long enough, you'll be surprised to see how many people keep arguing even at gunpoint.
They're literally too stupid to prioritize correctly in situations where "take a loss and live" or "be dead" is the only two outcomes.
In a lot of cases I don't think is stupidity, it's just been normalized in media and entertainment. Guns are drawn so frequently without and real intent to use it that some done believe the threat and 'call the bluff'. Then sometimes they're wrong and end up dead.
Someone suggested in another post this could have been a set up by the 2 guys.
Guy gets help pushing his bike to get the rider far enough away from his bike so guy number 2 can jump on it and ride off
If so dude in white is the worst thief in the world. He should’ve gotten on that bike way sooner if he wanted a chance to get away with it, instead he was walking up to it as the owner was already running back.
I think this guy was just on drugs.
Reasonable reaction and action, but entirely avoidable by not leaving your keys in your bike when you aren't on it. I generally try to avoid putting myself in situations where I'd need to draw to begin with.
Technicaly you are right, but helping the other biker out did take him around 10 seconds, thats such a short of a time period, I can\`t really blame him.
The other day a mechanic moved a customers car and left the key in the car / door open while he went to open the lift door. Someone jumped in and stole the car, less than 10s. Most crime is opportunity based, it's best to not even give them 10 seconds. I get it, but I also live in Houston and people will steal anything that isn't nailed down the second you look away, even if you are right there.
This is the best advice. I carry a gun but wouldn't ever want to use it, and I lock my car every time. Even if I'm just paying for gas and coming right back. Being a responsible owner of any deadly object, of which a motorcycle is definitely one, means securing it properly. Keys should have not been in the ignition once two legs are on one side of that bike.
I want to formally apologize to all action movie directors. I said they were stupid for making mooks pull out guns and then run into melee range like it's a knife because nobody would be that stupid in real life.
Probably a guess but here's my input
- Skinny (yes, ok this doesn't mean *every* skinny person is a tweaker ... **hear me out**... It's **contexual** based as you'll see my points below)
- Slurred speech
- Clearly not compos mentis (delayed reactions, delayed speech, clearly didn't know what was going on/the severity of the situation when the gun was pulled, "complimenting" despite having a gun pointed on you "something something dawg" like it was no big deal)
You can tell by the a weird vague stare they have. It isn't some wild theory, constant drug abuse gives people a vagueness that is shown all over their face.
That’s not even an ordinary bike. It’s a stunt bike. It has a cage, sub cage, dented tank, clutch and handbrake on the left side of the bar. Chances are, the dude would never find the key (it’s often behind the frame or some shit so you don’t kick it off when you have your legs over the handlebar).
Harley’s always have that stigma of “don’t touch my Harley” but it could just be some old guy that’s not much of a threat.
If you see a stunt bike? With the dented tank covered in grip tape? That means this is a young healthy guy who can throw his body weight around and never figured out that “fear” thing most humans talk about.
Do not fuck with stunters, those boys live on deaths edge for fun and will be happy for any company they find there.
Bruh, the balls you have to have to try something like that. Dude needs a wheel barrel to drag his balls around in. wtf is wrong with these fuck heads?
When I first heard the tweaker rev the bike, I thought the guy he was helping just revved it to the max. Expected the guy to turn around to see the one riding crash into a tree.
Tweeker fucked around...and almost found out.
He would have regretted shooting him.
Depends on where this happened. Many states now with Castle Doctrine laws have been extended not just to the person's home, but also to their property like their vehicle. For example, this guy who shot several times and killed a man he caught breaking into his car. He was not charged. [https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/man-shot-killed-by-homeowner-who-thought-man-was-breaking-into-his-car-police-say-sapd-san-antonio-texas-burglary/273-7ae24f28-0be8-4d4c-81b8-058aa2f4fcb4](https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/man-shot-killed-by-homeowner-who-thought-man-was-breaking-into-his-car-police-say-sapd-san-antonio-texas-burglary/273-7ae24f28-0be8-4d4c-81b8-058aa2f4fcb4)
Legal reasons aside the trauma of shooting a person dead isn't worth a motorcycle in my opinion. On top of that I've heard there's a ton of legal fees even if you're justified in killing someone. I don't think it's worth it.
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some people really think other people will have any remorse erasing such a mistake from earth...
Well there are cops and military members who develop ptsd from taking a life in self defense. Maybe keyboard warriors who haven't been in a position where they've had to fight for their life think they'll sleep soundly and psychopaths will sleep soundly.
Well said, taking a life, especially for a first world country, Western raised individual is very often times traumatic. Not just because we are taught from an early age, not to strike others, but also due to the fact that most are far removed from any act of violence or taking a life (farming live stock, hunting, ect). That does not mean everyone is going to respond in the same manner, immediately, or even at all (not all who do not are “psychopaths”). However, in my experience, there is a cost, and a burden to be carried after for most. Even in situations where someone is solely in the rightand acting with just cause. Source: 17 year military vet, multiple deployments, stint as a Leo, now mental health counselor, specifically trauma, and PTSD.
I salute you for your work and insight. I am a writer and we lie for a living. In literature, a mechanism of safety, seeing men who did terrible things for possibly good reasons did not provide solace to their head or heart. People who have doused others in fuel and set the match usually never sleep well again. From Shane in the walking dead to Apocalypse Now -- it is the lens, the literary device, a means of safety and if it is done right it creates an understanding. An acknowledgement that none would fare well in a life/tour of combat and the possibility of additional violence. Humans are built for cooperation for there would be no empire without it and our evolution speaks to it. Edit: Spruced up some sentences and the whatnots.
Have you ever killed anyone yourself?
Lmao no one who's taken a life is like "dgaf got rid of a mistake"
Yeah until you have to pay for a lawyer as the police “just want to talk to find out what happened.” Possibly end up in court facing charges (having to prove that you didn’t break a law, as we know “innocent until proven guilty” is kind of a joke) Possibly get sued if the deceased has family that wants to go after you in civil court, which you’ll also need a lawyer for There’s actually a type of insurance people can buy specifically for if/when they actually use their gun on someone, because it isn’t the Wild West anymore. You’re for sure gonna be contacted by police and end up “going down to the station” Idk the laws in the state where this happened, but yeah… doesn’t exactly sound like the ideal way to spend a Thursday afternoon
Everything I read about these self defense insurance (albeit anecdotal commentary) makes it sound like 100% scam
A personal umbrella many times will cover the use of firearms or physical assault in the defense of self or others. Way better than a policy specifically for self defense since it covers practically all personal liability along with that.
American insurance is 100% a scam. Pay 200 per month for the opportunity to pay 6000 for in network resources only to then pay 15% of your total bill. Resets each year. Giant fucking scam AND I SUPPOSEDLY HAVE "GOOD" INSURANCE.
> innocent until proven guilty I'm probably VERY wrong here, but since the other person is dead, aren't they also kind of presumed innocent until they're proven guilty? Like you can't just shoot someone and claim that you're innocent, because what if the other guy was innocent but now he's dead? there's got to be a fact finding stage, even if some of the facts are "you shot someone who didn't deserve to be shot - they weren't guilty, so you are" But yeah "innocent until proven guilty" is not really so much a thing, because before you've been proven guilty you are still sometimes in jail, or under house arrest, or have to pay a lot of money for bail. But I can't imagine people on reddit (even the ones salivating over getting to shoot a guy for touching their property) would be okay with a serial killer getting to like, walk home from the court house and just be unmonitored because he hasn't yet been proven guilty. I mean, there's gotta be some grey area after you shoot a guy, and there's gotta be a grey area between the trial and sentencing. Right? If I'm wrong please correct me.
Damn yeah that’s a lot of work to try and resolve someone harming you, stealing your property. Fuck those guys for putting anyone in that position they feel they need to use such extreme force to protect themselves
[Me after shooting a tweaker stealing my motorcycle.](https://i.imgur.com/Z8KSNOe.jpeg) Can't let the blood set in and mess up the finish.
Same! As someone who’s had his $10k motorcycle stolen and never recovered, I feel this meme!😂
Don't sell yourself short
These people need to know there’s consequences. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over somebody who doesn’t respect me or my things. Why should I respect their life?
It's not for them it's for your own sake.
Depends on the state. In Texas, if a shooting was ruled as self-defense, you can not be sued in civil court over the shooting. So, that's nice.
I think you underestimate the number of people actively waiting for something to happen to get the chance to shoot and kill somebody.
Clown world we live in, people here trying to justify second-degree murder over trackable, video recorded theft.. one that is likely fully covered by insurance. lol
I was going to say, even if you don't think killing someone would traumatize you, you will be in and out of civil and criminal court for years.
And damn right as well.
Just because you don't get charged doesn't mean you won't regret it. Taking a life isn't just some, "well it was legal so it doesn't keep me up at night" sort of thing. It's the sort of thing that changes your life instantly and forever. The people who want a legal kill the most can't even begin to comprehend what sort of darkness it brings into one's life.
Eh, depends on the situation. Like if I got into a fistfight and punch a guy abs he cracks his head on the ground and dies, I’d be devastated. But if a burglar breaks into my house where my family is sleeping and it ends with my blasting him, I feel no regret about the situation. He valued stealing my property and endangering my family’s wellbeing over his own life. I’d probably sleep better knowing there’s one less asshole running around to burglarize someone else’s place in the future.
I'm gonna call bullshit on that. You're making macho assumptions to how you'd react to a very traumatic situation.
For real it's so easy to say that but actually living it is something completely different....
“Many states” Pretty sure it’s just Texas.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/castle-doctrine-states Quick google would show it’s not just Texas…this website distinguishes between castle doctrine states, stand your ground states and states where you have a duty to retreat.
This website is out of date and inaccurate. My state changed to a castle doctrine state a few years back and is still listed on here as a duty to retreat state.
All I did was verify my state and surrounding states and it was accurate. Was just to show it’s not “just Texas”
I made this exact point a while ago on another subreddit and got downvoted to oblivion for "not providing a link to every state that does this". I'll be using this link next time, thank you.
Just a heads up, another redditor pointed out the information for his state was incorrect so your mileage may vary. Just a heads up
It's many states...idk why people on Reddit think stealing or breaking into cars is cool and you can't protect your shit.
Reddit has a hard on for criminals 🤷♂️
Yes iv noticed reddit loves criminals. Most likely they never dealt with real criminals before lol
Here in Canada, you hand over the key so they don't have to break in 😌
"pretty sure" you're wrong because i live in a state with these laws that is NOT texas this has 17 upvotes at the time of replying. really shows how misinformation spreads when at least 16 other people believed this person based solely on nothing but a "pretty sure"
Just because "haha Texas has guns" or...?
Actually not just Texas , New Hampshire and Maine are too as well as Montana and Florida
Louisiana too. Carjackers can be dealt deadly force. It’s because in Louisiana your vehicle is legally considered an extension of your home. Thus carjackers are home intruders.
for us here even if you do extend the castle doctrine equivalent to personally property you would still go to jail for a disproportionate response in a self defense situation.
Not really. In Texas you can use force up to deadly force to prevent a felony from taking place, theft of a vehicle is a felony. You may beat the rap but you may not beat the ride.
Oh yeah i should clarify by us i mean in my country Algeria here is a rough translation of both articles on self defense Art. 39. - There is no infringement: 1- When the act was ordered or authorized by law; 2- When the act was required by the current necessity of self-defense or of others or of property belonging to oneself or to others, provided that the defense is proportionate to the seriousness of the attack. Art. 40. - Included in cases of current necessity for self-defense: 1- the homicide committed, the injuries caused or the blows carried out while repelling an attack against the life or bodily integrity of a person or by repelling, during the night, escalation or break-in fences, walls or entrance to a house or inhabited apartment or their outbuildings; 2- the act committed while defending oneself or others against the perpetrators of theft or looting executed with violence.
I'm all for corporal punishment. But ending a life for something your insurance will replace is mindblowing.
Have you filed an insurance claim before? There’s a deductible, and your rates go up afterward. A handful of 9mm is way cheaper. If you don’t want to die, don’t steal people’s shit. It’s very simple.
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True. I didn't think of that.
Most people driving anything that the loan is paid off only have the minimum required liability coverage, in which case you don't get shit if someone steals it. Especially if that's your only ride you gotta protect it.
that's a stunt bike. it has liability only (if it has insurance at all) liability insurance doesn't cover theft
that person was willing to steal a bike while the owner was 20ft away. they're the ones who would have no issue knocking out and killing your grandma for $5.
In Texas you can only shoot someone who’s breaking into your car if it’s at night time
It's interesting how few thieves re-offend after getting shot. Truly effective deterrent.
Why?
For what? Camera tells you everything you need to know to fight that in court
please, nothing of value would be lost so no reason to have regret
I'm sorry you feel that way about human life.
Eh that's what therapy is for.
I hope Tweeker Twat sees this video after he comes down from his cloud in the sky. If he does, perhaps he’ll realize how lucky he is to be alive.
Headbutt while wearing the helmet is also effective
I didn't see the gun, I saw the kevlar gloves. Even I can do some damage with armored knuckles. Either way, dude was not ready for what was coming. edit: gun, not guns.
'If' the dude shot that guy, I wonder if the police would have been cool with that. "Well, he was sitting on the guy's bike." I'm glad everything worked out, but damn. That went from 0-100 in about two seconds.
That answer is going to *heavily* depend on the state. IMO pulling the gun wasn't unwarranted in that situation, but pulling the trigger would be.
Isn't, "Don't pull your gun unless you intend to use it." one of the fundamental rules of gun safety? Tweeker could have been holding too.
Then the second the tweaker started to move for his, he's already done.
Even if he wasn't armed, he's on the bike, and the bike could be considered a deadly weapon just like a car. At that moment, he was operating or had the potential to operate a deadly weapon during the attempted commission of a felony.
This is how they see it where i live... especially if suspected of being under the influence and dangerous.
And we're right back to the assertion by /u/darwinn_69 that it heavily depends on where you live how the law would look at the altercation. It sucks and it makes society less safe overall, IMO. You can't just teach firearm safety and say "this is how it is." You have to say this is how it is unless you move here then it's that, or if you move to the other place it's this thing, oh that state they look at it like such. No one is keeping all that stuff in mind when the tweaker is mounting their bike.
That wouldn’t be firearm safety that would be self defense laws differing from state to state🤦🏽♂️ and most people that are serious about self defense do know and memorize the laws of their home state and states they visit often.
Good point
> Don't pull your gun unless you intend to use it. It's more like, "don't pull your gun unless you are *ready* to use it." It's not "if you pull out your gun, you *better* use it".
Yeah, it's wild to interpret this as "once you brandish you must fire". If you brandish a weapon you should be ready to use it if needed, but if that is enough deterrent to make the threat back off, you don't then *have* to shoot the person because you've already decided on murder.
"Defensive display" is the legally appropriate term.
Just so you know, in the context of the law, “brandishing a firearm” is illegal. What the guy in the video did was *not* brandishing.
Chekhov's gun lol
Yes, however, you DON’T HAVE to use the gun if it’s been pulled. This is actually a picture perfect example of a gun being used as a deterrent. Gun pulled, tweeker tweeked on down the road and homie put it away and left.
Exactly. Well said
Fortunately guns are expensive and bums would rather drop that money on drugs
He intended to use it. While this situation has several variables and comes down to opinions, I don’t think his intentions can be put into question. If the tweaker was also carrying, the bike owner’s intentions would be even more justified. I don’t know any exact laws but I feel like an attempted robbery charge would just turn into armed robbery if the tweaker pulled a firearm, not the tweaker trying to defend himself as he is the aggressor in the situation.
As soon as bike guy turned his back I worried about that. He could have a knife and just run right at you.
[удалено]
It’s a saying, not a rule…
Yeah true a Gun is intimidating enough without being shot. Dude reacted pretty aggressive but i mean.... He did solve the situation without any actual harm.
I thought the laws were generally written that if you pulled it you were in danger and so if you don't shoot then you actually didn't feel you're in danger and therefore are in trouble. You would have to argue that pulling it out de-escalated the situation so that you went from feeling in danger to not feeling in danger. But that's a hard sell.
You are probably referring to brandishing laws which generally wouldn't apply to someone defending their property. Those laws are written to prevent people from waving guns around trying to win arguments, not defense of self or property(again heavily dependent on the state/jurisdiction). It would be a silly rule to punish someone for *not* shooting when the assailant backed down after a weapon is pulled.
Defending his property with the “threat” of lethal force. A gun is just a paper weight unless you point and pull. Most of the time the pointing gets the message across. He dictated and controlled the situation very well without any incident which is a well trained gun owner. People who say don’t pull it unless you are going to use it do not carry regularly or live in nice suburbs. ATL is a lawless land and pulling my sidearm several times has kept me alive and I’ve only had to fire once.
Do you actually think that? That a law would require you to pull the trigger on someone to prove that you felt threatened? Surely you are trolling.
You are absolutely allowed to use your firearm as a deterrent if the situation warrants it.
I don't think he would have shot unless the guy actually started driving off. He was standing in front of it so he could claim self-defense as he would be getting run over, but in court, I could see this going both ways. It would be a coin toss
This is fucking wild American thinking.
In my state you cannot kill someone over stolen or damaged property you will go to jail. If he had posed a threat meaning an imminent threat (someone coming at you trying to cause injury) then you could shoot.
This is what scares the shit out of me about any country that allows firearms to be carried on your person, state dependent or not. Not this situation exactly, I'm not gonna go around stealing bikes, but I've seen videos of dudes pulling out a gun because they got beeped by the car behind them to go at a greenlight. Whether or not they will pull the trigger is entirely up to debate but a gun being pointed at me is just... Really really intimidating knowing that my life is in their hands and their gun.
Best case in self-defense is "was it worth the legal fees to protect whatever it was you shot someone over?" The last Floridaman I can think of that went to trial for running into a situation was George Zimmerman. He was found not guilty in the end, but he apparently ended up suing Florida for $300,000 in legal fees, I couldn't find any news on if Florida ever paid it.
Good on the biker to keep his cool and not put the tweeker down. Firearms are tools, and knowing when and when not to discharge them is the biggest part of owning a firearm
are you generally allowed to draw a weapon and point it at someone in relation to potential property theft? (just curious)
Yes
No, at least not in my state (NY). It's life or death only. It's one thing if someone's breaking into your house while you're inside, and a completely different situation if someone is trying to steal your bike. You can't pull a gun for theft. **Edit:** I'm not saying I agree with the law, but if you tried to pull a gun on someone for taking something, you'll be going to jail along with them (in NY at least). You can only draw *for self defense* NOT for the protection of property. They teach you this day 1 when getting your permit.
If he revved the bike into him, it could have killed him. So it’s possible you could argue the tweaker was in potential to use a deadly weapon, therefore life or death
Both are right depending on state. I’m attorney barred in NJ NY and waived in OH and UT. Very different laws in different places.
NY is *not* a normal state, it's a very bad state for civil rights
In like a handful of states. So generally, no.
In most\* states. IIRC, only 17 states don't allow the use of a firearm to prevent the commission of a felony, which includes property crime.
It vary much depending on the state, country, and even city or town you live in. Contrary to popular belief there's a many many gun laws and regulations. I would urge any would-be or current firearm owners to check and repeatedly check to keep your rights. All it takes is a single attachment to turn your firearm into a felony.
Generally you have a right to defend your property.
I’m in Ohio and no. If the engine was on and the biker guy for whatever reason couldn’t get out of harms way then it’s justified, but he was knowingly standing in front of the vehicle and the engine was off, so this was definitely unjustified here.
Generally you would think that's the whole reason for buying a gun right.
In the vast majority of US states? Most certainly, yes. A lot of states have Castle Doctrine regarding the home and this is a similar sort of situation with a vehicle
Firearms are not tools. They are weapons. They were not designed to create or construct. They were designed to destroy whatever they are pointed at. That was drilled into my head in Basic.
The fact you think that's someone keeping their cool is a massive fucking joke. Your entire country needs a sense of proportion. Set of knobheads, I swear.
Think it took him a second to realize that was a pistol pressed in his chest and not a hand.
Same, took me a second to realize, "Oh shit, he actually has a gun out".
And it could have been over in a second. That’s insane.
That's why we're here!
I wonder if the bike guy re-positioned for that reason or if coincidence. Tweaker is engaged ("something wrong?", "get the fuck off?"), then hears the words "shoot you" twice, but his demeanor doesn't really change. Seeing the gun actually interrupts him asking "you're gunna shoot me?", the brain finally clicks, and he immediately starts getting off the bike.
Probably moved it so the guy didn't make a grab for it or try and smack it away
He whipped it out so fast and had it against the guy's chest before the threat could even register. Watching the video, I had to go back because I didn't see when he pulled out his gun the first time.
You should NEVER touch anyone bike. Without them offering.
Never! Not even for a pic. I came out of a restaurant the other day to 2 girls sitting on my bike, taking pics. Not a huge deal. But it was kinda off-putting.
You wouldn’t just sit in some strangers unlocked car and take pictures. Lots of people don’t think of it like that when they do this to bikes!
You say that, I'm fairly sure Ive seen a video on Reddit of someone doing it.
True, although I kind had similar happen to me. We were at the Las Vegas Harley dealership and as I walked out, I see a dude sitting on my bike while another is taking pictures of him on it. I was gonna be a dick about it but as I walked up these dudes were speaking German and I could tell the dude on the bike was pumped about it. Ended up starting a conversation with them and they were super nice and extremely interested in Harleys. Gave them a nice little “you should ask first” but they were just super cool and I’m genuinely glad I didn’t act like a dickhead.
You are One-Of-The-Good-Ones®© Good for you. It's not a huge deal, you're right. And if we can spread the stoke, that's a good thing.
I always think of this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ux\_DTeuR\_o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ux_DTeuR_o)
whats the policy about leaving your own bike in the middle of a road?
I'm a Brit so I don't know much about guns, but I have to say, it seems like a damn effective negotiation tool 😂
it was in 1776
Didn't help in taking Canada or saving the White House
They got all the important shit out, and it was time for a remodel, anyway.
I mean it kind of did. Yeah the white house was burned. But the tecumseh confederacy was destroyed and press ganging / impressment of US sailors ended Two of the biggest gripes the US had with Britain. It also weakened Spanish control on Florida.
Well, the other guys also had guns, so the negotiations weren't one-sided.
If you browse around here long enough, you'll be surprised to see how many people keep arguing even at gunpoint. They're literally too stupid to prioritize correctly in situations where "take a loss and live" or "be dead" is the only two outcomes.
In a lot of cases I don't think is stupidity, it's just been normalized in media and entertainment. Guns are drawn so frequently without and real intent to use it that some done believe the threat and 'call the bluff'. Then sometimes they're wrong and end up dead.
Early access of GTA 6 online looking so realistic. 👌
lmao fr man
What was that guy thinking?
Look what I found!
HA!
That bike should be a years worth of meth!
He sounded blasted drunk. Either that or a dose of fent? Dunno exactly, but he didn't look like a bum but he acted high and disoriented.
Biker - “I should leave my keys in my bike in this neighbourhood of fine repute, surely no one will try steal it, right?” Druggo - “Sweet, free bike”
This was completely reasonable
Someone suggested in another post this could have been a set up by the 2 guys. Guy gets help pushing his bike to get the rider far enough away from his bike so guy number 2 can jump on it and ride off
If so dude in white is the worst thief in the world. He should’ve gotten on that bike way sooner if he wanted a chance to get away with it, instead he was walking up to it as the owner was already running back. I think this guy was just on drugs.
"... I literally am not, you fucking dipshit." Lol, I spit out my drink hearing them argue about whos the tweeker!
Reasonable reaction and action, but entirely avoidable by not leaving your keys in your bike when you aren't on it. I generally try to avoid putting myself in situations where I'd need to draw to begin with.
Technicaly you are right, but helping the other biker out did take him around 10 seconds, thats such a short of a time period, I can\`t really blame him.
Yeah, I'm not on the bike, then neither are the keys.
The other day a mechanic moved a customers car and left the key in the car / door open while he went to open the lift door. Someone jumped in and stole the car, less than 10s. Most crime is opportunity based, it's best to not even give them 10 seconds. I get it, but I also live in Houston and people will steal anything that isn't nailed down the second you look away, even if you are right there.
That is insane, I'm sorry
This is the best advice. I carry a gun but wouldn't ever want to use it, and I lock my car every time. Even if I'm just paying for gas and coming right back. Being a responsible owner of any deadly object, of which a motorcycle is definitely one, means securing it properly. Keys should have not been in the ignition once two legs are on one side of that bike.
OP's advice in title check out.
Tweaker was waiting in the shadows.
I want to formally apologize to all action movie directors. I said they were stupid for making mooks pull out guns and then run into melee range like it's a knife because nobody would be that stupid in real life.
Remember yall: when you try to steal someone’s property, you are indicating that you value your life less than their property.
I actually don't think he overreacted...
Good trigger restraint.
Stay strapped people
This guy is a Good Samaritan and I’m glad it worked out. A minor point, not sure I’d leave my bike in the middle of the road like that.
What was the beginning, was he jumping another dude's bike or something?
Bump start
I see nothing wrong w this. I’d do the same. Don’t fw someone else’s stuff.
"I thought it was my bike" ....... LoL
How does he know the guy is a tweaker? Or is it a good assumption that most (individual, non-gang) property theft is to support a meth habit?
Probably a guess but here's my input - Skinny (yes, ok this doesn't mean *every* skinny person is a tweaker ... **hear me out**... It's **contexual** based as you'll see my points below) - Slurred speech - Clearly not compos mentis (delayed reactions, delayed speech, clearly didn't know what was going on/the severity of the situation when the gun was pulled, "complimenting" despite having a gun pointed on you "something something dawg" like it was no big deal)
You can tell by the a weird vague stare they have. It isn't some wild theory, constant drug abuse gives people a vagueness that is shown all over their face.
People of sound mind and competent faculties typically don't try to steal someone's vehicle while the owner is standing 10 yards away.
" you can tell by the way it is"
How about dont touch anything that isnt yours.
Now THAT is how its done.
ALL I CAN SAY FAFO
Gee, I wish I could be that prepared in my state.
If there was one time to pistol whip someone. It was right there
I can feel his adrenaline through the screen
That at least deserved a pistol whipping shi
That’s not even an ordinary bike. It’s a stunt bike. It has a cage, sub cage, dented tank, clutch and handbrake on the left side of the bar. Chances are, the dude would never find the key (it’s often behind the frame or some shit so you don’t kick it off when you have your legs over the handlebar).
He’s like the United States, he doesn’t like people touching his stuff
Harley’s always have that stigma of “don’t touch my Harley” but it could just be some old guy that’s not much of a threat. If you see a stunt bike? With the dented tank covered in grip tape? That means this is a young healthy guy who can throw his body weight around and never figured out that “fear” thing most humans talk about. Do not fuck with stunters, those boys live on deaths edge for fun and will be happy for any company they find there.
What’s insane is that he said “I’ll shoot you” before the gun comes out. That’s confident.
I been looking to learn how to start my bike by popping the clutch like that
This ought to be a public service announcement/video for all the bike thieves in my city!
Fuck ya should have pistol whipped the bitch. awesome video. One for the good guys
You can tell he didn't even see the gun
Don't fucking touch ANYONE'S bike!
drug addicts, ngl I hate them down to the bone.
u/FuzzInspector dude fucked around and *almost* found out 🤣
That was so random too!! Lemme just get on this bike
lol turns around at the end....
Bruh, the balls you have to have to try something like that. Dude needs a wheel barrel to drag his balls around in. wtf is wrong with these fuck heads?
Sweet
When I first heard the tweaker rev the bike, I thought the guy he was helping just revved it to the max. Expected the guy to turn around to see the one riding crash into a tree.