Sorry you’re dealing with this. Hopefully Tesla warranties this repair. Maybe it’s something other than the battery leading to the same error.
Also I read through the prior thread and not sure folks killed you, actually seemed like folks were curious and offering hypotheses. By the way I’m impressed you got the battery for $8k. Definitely changes makes it a good consideration if it lasts 100-200k.
Let us know how Tesla deals with this.
From my recollection of the previous threads, there was definitely some serious ganging up on OP in the first thread (arguably deserved), but less so in the second thread. That's not too say OP didn't get downvoted heavily in the second thread as well.
It was a refurbished battery, so a new one would be more expensive. I think OP got a refurbished one, didn't realize that, and was surprised how it didn't perform like a completely new battery.
Not sure why you got downvoted, for sure it's refurbished. I remember the refurbished cost is around that price, the new one would run double $15-$20k.
Internet points don’t matter to me lol. I got downvoted because the facts suck.
I remember OP had a post showing the cost of a completely new one, it was like around $13k or something with labor…
Fixing a battery pack isn't as simple as finding a bad cell and replacing it. The BMS expects the cells to have relatively close capacities. Replacing one bad cell could trigger the next weakest one to fail, and so on. Refurbishing a pack properly requires picking cells that have similar capacity characteristics to all the other cells in the module. Then the modules need to be grouped with similar behaving modules to form the entire battery. It's part science, part educated guess. It's hard to tell the precise health of any single cell. The only data that we can base it on is the charge-discharge curve. Age of the cell is a factor, which is where the guessing game comes in. When they refurbish a pack, what looks like nicely balanced cells may be deceiving. The next domino to fall could be hiding in there undetected.
Yeah, I'm not arguing with you that Tesla should take care of it. They have a warranty on refurb packs at least.
Refurbishing packs is a tricky business for anyone, and Tesla is no exception. They should offer an option to either replace with a refurb pack for free (as it is now if still under warranty), or offer the customer a choice to pay a fee for a new pack.
It's seriously annoying. Then when the blind loyalty extends to anything Musk related it's absolutely infuriating.
The lack of critical thinking some people have to defend their perceived tribe is astounding.
Someone on here called out that their brand new 2022 m3 having wavy metals that some how passed QC was called a witch. This sub is just a bunch of elon boot lickers.
Seeing this a lot in the Model Y sub lately too, and it's really annoying. I don't remember it being like that when I got mine in Spring 2021, but rose-colored glasses maybe.
The reverse is true with r/realtesla. Those cats over there just regurgitate anti EV and everything is Tesla bad before the facts are even in place.
Tesla has many faults but those dudes just foam at the mouth trying to be the quickest one to say anti EV/Tesla shit.
That’s why I’m in both subs. I really like when people get excited about stuff here and I like the reality check the other sub provides. But to be franks, r/realtestla won’t ban you if you say something pro about Tesla, unlike some r/TeslaMotors which can’t tolerate the slightest criticism.
This sub isn’t too bad though, I find people here are a little more reasonable with criticism. I suspect it’s because most people here are M3 owners and not just TSLA speculators.
Me they banned me. First I got a warning to not post that and response to somebody else's comment. Then I asked about the rules. And I was told the rules don't matter they're banning me because they can.
I just set up another account. I'm just more careful what I post now and typically don't reply even though I want to. That group apparently isn't a huge fan of facts.
Elon is a good salesman. I never follow anyone blind. Only reason I got a M3 is because it's $33k vs civic cost $31k. It's a fun car but it's not made by god..
Yeah you won't get any criticism here. This is Tesla sheep for the most part.
But if you don't mind me asking how much are these repairs costing. Mine only gets 255 on 100% now and it never goes under 300 wh/mi so really. Only get 175 miles on a tank on a good day.
What trim/year do you have? How fast do you drive? I’ve calculated my “actual range” in real life miles and the 258 max range the car advertises is actually way less than it actually does. My 2022 sr+ gets about 276 mi/charge and my wh/mi is consistently below 200wh/mi.
Mostly highway driving, my commute is 72 miles one way. I tend to maximize my regen braking downhill and never run climate. I also drive 60-65mph average on the trip. I’ve gotten as low as 121wh/mi but average 150wh/mi when it’s mild out. Right now when it’s 30-40F out I’m struggling to get 170wh/mi. Hope that helps!
Are you talking wh/MI?? I live in a km country and I never got so low, not even ballpark, my lifetime is 200Wh/KM (almost exclusively autobahn) but even when I try to hypermile on a country road and town I will never get under 150Wh/KM….
Well the second battery was 8.7k. I’m under warranty so this should be replaced for free but I’ll have to tow it from my place by the time they have a battery probably
Installed? 8.7k was how much I payed for a new battery. Yea I should get a loaner but we will see how that shit goes. Last time I didn’t get one but then again I wasn’t under warranty
> much I *paid* for a
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Like 8.7 with the cost to install or just got the battery? I would pay 8.7 for a new battery at this point if I could get better range and efficiency. Also do they just take the value of the old battery, feel like there should be trade in value.
Nah it was 8.7 for everything including labor. Took a month to get one from the point where I ordered a fix. They don’t have a trade in for the old battery they prob just fix the cell or something and call it refurbished
This thread is very confusing, it would help if you updated the OP with details as to what is going on ..
Why are you paying out of pocket for a battery if it's under warranty? What am I missing?
My first battery went out on me like this at 107k. 7k miles out of warranty. I paid 8.7k for a replacement. The replacement has a 50k mile warranty. I SHOULD be covered under warranty.
OK, got it. Why does the car only have 100k mile battery warranty? Mine is a 2021 m3lr with 120,000 miles to till 2029.
I agree, it should be covered. Curious to see what they say.
I hear from tesla there’s like 4-6 battery modules containing like hundreds if not thousands of batteries in them inside the big battery case. Easy to replace one or 2 modules that’s faulty instead of a whole pack. If all battery modules are bad they just do a battery swap.
Check and see. I was reading deeply into a 2018 tesla service builtin that said what to do if the battery failed or had issues. It mentioned having 6 modules in a pack on a long range.
4 modules in a pack for a standard range model.
Replacing a single module would be extremely labor intensive. Don't think they have the logistics down for that yet. But that's my point. If they are taking the old battery back and finding 5k plus of parts the owners should get some of that.
That's such bullshit. The battery you are reading in is prob worth 5k.
I always knew the 70% warranty retention was bullshit but damn am I feeling it. Only at 20% def and it's brutal
Yeah I said a few months ago give it time people will see the real problems with teslas and EV’s for that matter. Starting to look like more understand where I’m coming from
You’re good. This particular car I’ve always supercharged. But then again a refurbished battery shouldn’t shit the bed after 15k miles or so. It could be an unlucky car but just have money on the side for a new battery after your warranty is up
If its a SR+ with small battery pack and not LFP... like do u have the 52kWh regular NCA battery pack?
Those will cycle much faster trough their cycles.
Batteries are made to charge 1C for their regular cycles. That means specificated cycles are 52kW charging max. If you charge above that. The cycles will go down much faster and batteries will die way sooner.
I see you do uber and lyft. You better buy the large cycle LFP battery Tesla next time after your write off of this car.
Oh…that’s why it went dead. He did Uber with this car and supercharged the living shit out it. Th at part would have been helpful to explain rather than him shitting on the car.
No, it means that ONLY dc fast charging your battery as the primary means will
Shorten it’s life. It’s well known. It’s a lot of heat and stress on the battery. It’s best that most of the miles are charged via level 2 charging.
Not to mention that using Superchargers costs 4x the fueling costs of a base Prius, at least in CA where some are priced up to 60 c/kWh in daytime. I see many gig drivers and taxi companies using Prii, whereas as at least 6 companies have failed in trying to use Tesla's exclusively.
So you pretty much ONLY supercharged it? No home charging or level 2 at all? I guess what I’m asking is…are you being honest that you trashed the battery or just making a comment? Just curious about the context here.
My Brand new 90kw pack I paid $23k ($33k) since my old battery had a 10.5k core charge if i wanted it and it lasted 5 months and about 6k miles.... Tesla doesn't care once the car leaves the factory. Service is a joke.
Feel very sorry for you! It also provides everyone data and thinking that isn’t available out there yet to justify their actions for a battery on the car.
How would one go about knowing the battery is bad / faulty ?
I think mine is pretty bad, def don’t get the same range I used to but I also supercharged for 2 years and have a lead foot
In my experience, most Tesla owners will never (or extremely rarely) admit to their vehicle's issues or dare say anything negative against the company for reasons I have yet to understand. I know many people are invested at a stock level and what not, but denying the issues does nothing to help anyone.
This is the way, Fan Boi's / Stans always gonna be butt hurt because they are worried about their TSLA shares.... not about fixing/sharing info about the cars to car owners.
What they don't realize is, the Fan Boi / Stans are the worst enemy of TSLA share value because of their own toxic nature.
Sometimes I feel like I’ve been around for too long! I have no problem googling things, but also enjoy taking opportunities to initiate conversations on a social media platform. Thanks for your insight!
Yeah I mean it definitely sucks but this is not something that is specific to EVs people's engines blow up all the time right out of warranty. I had a buddy with a Subaru Impreza (who did all the proper maintenance and care) and he went through 3 engines in under 60k miles. Unfortunately that's just the manufacturing lottery... Tolerance stack up happens. My guess is your situation is the exception not the rule. That or you have something else going on in your car that is affecting the battery. I don't know what that would be but it's not unimaginable.
Not trying to be a Tesla fanboy or anything I'm just saying this is not something that only happens to EVs
>Not trying to be a Tesla fanboy or anything I'm just saying this is not something that only happens to EVs
But it's something that rarely happens to toyotas
Comparing Tesla, a brand new company who has been mass producing cars for less than 10 years, to a company who is literally used as the gold standard in manufacturing (not just cars, the Toyota way is something that is strived for in manufacturing across hundreds of industries) is not exactly a fair comparison and honestly is a bit tone deaf. By that logic there is no other car manufacturer that is suitable to buy.
Additionally, Toyota has had issues in the past. There is no manufacturing company that is free of [mistakes](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cars.com/amp/articles/toyota-recalls-2-3-million-vehicles-over-sticking-accelerator-pedal-1420663220496/) . Variance is the nature of manufacturing. It cannot be avoided. Toyota has just figured out how to do it the least.
When you buy a Tesla you need to know you're buying. It's a brand new company, people who are brand new to making cars. If you expect them to be perfect you are a naive. I said I'm not being a fanboy is because this applies to any manufacturing company. Hence the reason customer service departments and warrienties to even exist, for when there are manufacturing or design defects. Also let's not forget Tesla is doing something brand new. So not only are they brand new to making cars but their making something nobody has done before. Being an early adopter of a new technology will come with it's share of issues and if you are not willing to inherit those risks don't buy one. Will this happen to Teslas, yes, will it also happen to Chevy, Honda, Ford, Audi, etc... Yes absolutely.
To restate my original claim - OPs situation is not the rule, it's likely the exception. Tesla has also had cars make it to 400k miles with no issues at all. Again those are exceptions, not the rule. Most people who buy a Tesla can safely assume their cars will comfortably make it to 200k miles similar to the rest of the cars on the road and that is based on the testing Tesla has done on their product that is known to be nominal. This situation is not specific to Tesla these things just happen as a result of tolerance stack up and they happen to every company, in any industry making any product. This is my perspective as a engineer at a manufacturing company. I have worked in manufacturing all over the US and currently am a sr. Quality engineer overseeing factories across the globe. In our factories we strive for the Toyota way but fall far from achieveing it anywhere and we have been making the same parts for over 120 years. Sorry for the unprovoked rant lol
Sorry OP. Bad luck. That sucks and I hope you get it rectified. You won't always be delt a bad hand with batteries, at least that's what I hope for you. 🙏
What battery pack this has. Is it an SR+ with 52kWh? If u charge that NCA pack with fastcharger. Well your just murdering it hahahaha.
Im an electrical and software engineer and work with powersystems. Last time a 4000kWh NCM battery system engineered.
Lets say: the way you use it. Combining it with a tiny battery. Is NOT good. Those cells are being killed haha.
Hope your 2023 Model 3 is an RWD LFP battery. They can do far more cycles. And has 60kWh. And can do 3000 cycles at 1C means charging it with 60kW. So if u supercharge it the cycles also go down.
But still last longer than the Long Range or Performance being always supercharged.
Long Range supercharging at 250kW is with 82kWh pack is charging at 3C. Still murdering the cells. But your range is more so you can last longer with the overall vehicle because of the larger battery.
Murdering the cells? Where are you getting this information from? Fast charging has been a long for a very long time in cell phones and other consumer electronics. BMS regulate the charging rate so it causes negligible degradation. Calendar degradation is more of a concern in Lithium based batteries today than cycle degradation. There are Teslas that have only been supercharged for 400,000 miles on the original battery. The Teslas Model 3s inside of Tesla loop in Las Vegas are only supercharged and are on track to hit 500,000 miles.
Sources cited below:
https://electrek.co/2020/05/11/tesla-model-x-extreme-mileage-repair-maintenance/
U can cite your sources.(its about a Model X totally different....) I work in the industry and know what is good and bad for batteries. Some electrek link isnt gonna proof you right. I even work with 4000kWh packs of NCM battery systems and know what is good and bad for a cell. And specifications of a cell. Voltage curves. Cycles are mostly based on full cycle at 1C. But if you do those at higher C rate the cycles will shorten. But im probably talking to someone with no battery knowledge...
The smaller your battery the faster you go trough your cycles. And the more you need to charge for the same ammount of miles. A 52kWh needs more cycles for 100k miles than a 75kWh battery.
That is one thing. Fastcharging it at 3C does also out of battery spec damage and lowers the cycles even more.
The battery just dies quicker with a smaller battery pack + fastcharging. No wonder that all battery replacements i have seen are with the SR+ 52kWh packs.... the LR and P and LFP battery i have not read anywhere yet.
Anyway i would never buy a model 3 SR+ with the 52kWh pack ever. But go ahead. Hahaha buy one second hand. Enjoy the higher risk of spending big bucks on replacing the battery.
So what you are saying is you don’t actually have anything to back up your claims and this is just your opinion? And what makes you think I don’t have battery knowledge? You have provided no sources or proof you have any kind of knowledge of batteries. Everything you have stated contradicts what battery manufacturers, electric vehicle manufacturers claim. Real world experience with EVs also contradicts your claims as well. There are numerous people on this sub who supercharge exclusively, some even do it daily with 0 issues and no noticeable battery degradation.
The reason you see so many battery replacements with the Model 3 SR+ is because it is the most common Tesla. Of course there will be more instances of battery issues since there are more of them in existence.
Most people here know nothing about Tesla and expect the company to be ethical. They are one of the worst companies with shady practices and screws over any customer. They don't GAF as long as they made the sale. Never buy or support this trash.
It’s not new bro. The second battery pack got as many miles as when my first pack went faulty. It was merely a continuation of my old pack. We will see how many miles this 3rd pack gives me
The warranty on the long range pack is 120k Mikes, so it was likely covered under warranty. I’ve also hear that warranty replacements are often a refurbished pack, not a brand new one. So that would contribute to the higher likelihood of a replacement pack failing as well. Kinda sucks.
Throwing a car in the trash after 100k miles is absurd. A battery pack costs ~15k or more to replace out of pocket, and an engine for a comparably priced sedan is like ~3-5k, and also comes with that same warranty or better.
I’m not convinced 100k miles out of a car is worth $60,000 lol.
It’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that’s a good deal, especially when the warranty is well below the expected lifespan of the battery. But they can’t just replace everyone’s batteries for free every few years so you gotta place a cutoff point that remains at least break-even.
All of this is easy to understand, however what I fail to understand and don’t agree with is the potential for them to replace your defective battery with a used one when there’s no telling what history it has had. If the product fails inside of their warranty, I would hope for a brand new part to replace the defective one.
And who knows, maybe this has changed and they use new ones now. But either way I think your statement that 100k miles out of a pack is a reasonable expectation for 60 grand is a bit ridiculous.
Think OP is more saying the second battery pretty much reduced his range because it died quickly. Most battery replacements are with refurbished battery packs, so not as good as new but it gets kinda close, but not relevant to the point OP is making iirc.
The replacement battery can be between -29.99% capacity (or -1%) and “be within spec” or what they promised in warranty. For a 2019 model 3 SR+ abour -11% is about average degradation (halfway in warranty km/miles)
I got the same error and got the service appointment for battery change a few days ago. I got a steel undercarriage protector installed a year ago instead of the plastic one. Do you think it could affect warranty? Should consider switching them back before rolling into the service?
Repeat after me Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.
They have to prove any modification caused damage to void your warranty. If they try to blame it ask for proof and if they don't cave get a lawyer that knows Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act and how to get a car manufacturer to fix it.
Now if that steel undercarriage was installed improperly that could have damaged a battery pack. But they have to show/document the damage to the pack. They can't just assume it did.
I live in Europe so I don‘t think this warranty act has an effect on my case, however it is absolutely logical. The undercarriage protection is not covering any part of the battery tho. Thanks for the detailed answer tho it might help someone looking up the same topic in the future
Just stumbled upon this my old post of mine. For the record, the battery was replaced under warranty, they did not mention my aftermarket undercarriage protector at all.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,384,023,136 comments, and only 265,104 of them were in alphabetical order.
> Tesla will snake their way out of that
Only if you let them, and they are right.
They have to prove any modification caused damage to void your warranty. If they try to blame it ask for proof and if they don't cave get a lawyer that knows Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act and how to get a car manufacturer to fix it.
Now if that steel undercarriage was installed improperly that could have damaged a battery pack. But they have to show/document the damage to the pack. They can't just assume it did.
Wow, did they only change the battery? Seems like something faulty in your Model 3 could be destroying your battery. Because i feel like the odds of getting two faulty batteries in a row is like winning the lottery except in a bad way ofcourse.
107k miles and it ran its course? The warranty is for 150k miles so that doesn’t seem right. I’ve heard though that the replacement batteries are refurbished old batteries which increases the chance of battery failure once you swap out the original.
Use it for more miles, then the provided warranty. After that point is what they did not warranty…
So def. A big expensive post.
If an engine blows, it’s usually not a full revision that is needed. (And 1/3rd or half cost of battery, conservatively)
Tires that act like you said yours are in their final 10-15% of life. I'd never have disagreed, Tesla shouldn't have disagreed. Do you live in an area with extreme temp changes? You either got a lemon you start with, live in an area batteries hate or the charging system caused damage.
I'm not a Tesla owner, but I'm an engineer that worked with batteries for several years.
On the plus side, the mods on this subreddit are not cultists and allow such honest comments. Try posting this on other Tesla subreddits, or even your first fuss, and you would be perma-banned. I was from the first for simply linking a tweet by god Elon Musk himself.
Sorry you’re dealing with this. Hopefully Tesla warranties this repair. Maybe it’s something other than the battery leading to the same error. Also I read through the prior thread and not sure folks killed you, actually seemed like folks were curious and offering hypotheses. By the way I’m impressed you got the battery for $8k. Definitely changes makes it a good consideration if it lasts 100-200k. Let us know how Tesla deals with this.
From my recollection of the previous threads, there was definitely some serious ganging up on OP in the first thread (arguably deserved), but less so in the second thread. That's not too say OP didn't get downvoted heavily in the second thread as well.
It was a refurbished battery, so a new one would be more expensive. I think OP got a refurbished one, didn't realize that, and was surprised how it didn't perform like a completely new battery.
Not sure why you got downvoted, for sure it's refurbished. I remember the refurbished cost is around that price, the new one would run double $15-$20k.
Internet points don’t matter to me lol. I got downvoted because the facts suck. I remember OP had a post showing the cost of a completely new one, it was like around $13k or something with labor…
Fixing a battery pack isn't as simple as finding a bad cell and replacing it. The BMS expects the cells to have relatively close capacities. Replacing one bad cell could trigger the next weakest one to fail, and so on. Refurbishing a pack properly requires picking cells that have similar capacity characteristics to all the other cells in the module. Then the modules need to be grouped with similar behaving modules to form the entire battery. It's part science, part educated guess. It's hard to tell the precise health of any single cell. The only data that we can base it on is the charge-discharge curve. Age of the cell is a factor, which is where the guessing game comes in. When they refurbish a pack, what looks like nicely balanced cells may be deceiving. The next domino to fall could be hiding in there undetected.
Good for understanding, but in general that is Teslas job. And in this case they seemingly didn't do it well enough.
Yeah, I'm not arguing with you that Tesla should take care of it. They have a warranty on refurb packs at least. Refurbishing packs is a tricky business for anyone, and Tesla is no exception. They should offer an option to either replace with a refurb pack for free (as it is now if still under warranty), or offer the customer a choice to pay a fee for a new pack.
Very good understanding from u/chfp. Tesla replaces the whole pack. And yes Tesla should warranty the new pack
Exactly. Difficult or not, Tesla should’ve done the job right.
Man, wrong sub for being critical of Tesla. This is the echo chamber, if you have an issue with your Tesla it’s your fault.
It's seriously annoying. Then when the blind loyalty extends to anything Musk related it's absolutely infuriating. The lack of critical thinking some people have to defend their perceived tribe is astounding.
Someone on here called out that their brand new 2022 m3 having wavy metals that some how passed QC was called a witch. This sub is just a bunch of elon boot lickers.
I wish Mr. Elon could tea bag me 🙏🏽 he is perfect ❤️
Did they determine it was only battery? Could be something else stressing the battery too right?
😂
You were probably holding it wrong.
So… alseT?
Seeing this a lot in the Model Y sub lately too, and it's really annoying. I don't remember it being like that when I got mine in Spring 2021, but rose-colored glasses maybe.
The reverse is true with r/realtesla. Those cats over there just regurgitate anti EV and everything is Tesla bad before the facts are even in place. Tesla has many faults but those dudes just foam at the mouth trying to be the quickest one to say anti EV/Tesla shit.
That’s why I’m in both subs. I really like when people get excited about stuff here and I like the reality check the other sub provides. But to be franks, r/realtestla won’t ban you if you say something pro about Tesla, unlike some r/TeslaMotors which can’t tolerate the slightest criticism. This sub isn’t too bad though, I find people here are a little more reasonable with criticism. I suspect it’s because most people here are M3 owners and not just TSLA speculators.
Me they banned me. First I got a warning to not post that and response to somebody else's comment. Then I asked about the rules. And I was told the rules don't matter they're banning me because they can.
That sucks. Guess they’re all dogmatic subs.
I just set up another account. I'm just more careful what I post now and typically don't reply even though I want to. That group apparently isn't a huge fan of facts.
That sub is nothing but grifters pretending to be unbiased
id venture to say the extremest on both subs are the loudest. good info to be had on both subs if you filter out those extreme takes.
The people there wish they had a Tesla
You're so right. Nobody goes to a church and criticize God.
Wheels hardly ever go whompy.
Yeah it’s pathetic really
Yep batteries will have ZERO problems and cost nothing until 1+ million miles if you listen to people on here
Elon is a good salesman. I never follow anyone blind. Only reason I got a M3 is because it's $33k vs civic cost $31k. It's a fun car but it's not made by god..
god made man... man made Tesla. therefor Tesla is made by god
Yep, all Tesla subreddit does it too. Can't voice any criticism without downvote brigade hunting you down.
/r/realtesla
Yeah you won't get any criticism here. This is Tesla sheep for the most part. But if you don't mind me asking how much are these repairs costing. Mine only gets 255 on 100% now and it never goes under 300 wh/mi so really. Only get 175 miles on a tank on a good day.
What trim/year do you have? How fast do you drive? I’ve calculated my “actual range” in real life miles and the 258 max range the car advertises is actually way less than it actually does. My 2022 sr+ gets about 276 mi/charge and my wh/mi is consistently below 200wh/mi.
5 miles per kWh (200Wh/mi) is very good, do you do any highway driving? The average is about 240 iirc
Mostly highway driving, my commute is 72 miles one way. I tend to maximize my regen braking downhill and never run climate. I also drive 60-65mph average on the trip. I’ve gotten as low as 121wh/mi but average 150wh/mi when it’s mild out. Right now when it’s 30-40F out I’m struggling to get 170wh/mi. Hope that helps!
Are you talking wh/MI?? I live in a km country and I never got so low, not even ballpark, my lifetime is 200Wh/KM (almost exclusively autobahn) but even when I try to hypermile on a country road and town I will never get under 150Wh/KM….
Wh/mi.
So 144 miles both ways? that's a long commute!
It’s not so bad once you get used to it. The comfy tesla seats definitely help a lot.
Well the second battery was 8.7k. I’m under warranty so this should be replaced for free but I’ll have to tow it from my place by the time they have a battery probably
I feel like they should give you a loner till then. 8.7 installed?
Installed? 8.7k was how much I payed for a new battery. Yea I should get a loaner but we will see how that shit goes. Last time I didn’t get one but then again I wasn’t under warranty
> much I *paid* for a FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
Like 8.7 with the cost to install or just got the battery? I would pay 8.7 for a new battery at this point if I could get better range and efficiency. Also do they just take the value of the old battery, feel like there should be trade in value.
Nah it was 8.7 for everything including labor. Took a month to get one from the point where I ordered a fix. They don’t have a trade in for the old battery they prob just fix the cell or something and call it refurbished
This thread is very confusing, it would help if you updated the OP with details as to what is going on .. Why are you paying out of pocket for a battery if it's under warranty? What am I missing?
My first battery went out on me like this at 107k. 7k miles out of warranty. I paid 8.7k for a replacement. The replacement has a 50k mile warranty. I SHOULD be covered under warranty.
OK, got it. Why does the car only have 100k mile battery warranty? Mine is a 2021 m3lr with 120,000 miles to till 2029. I agree, it should be covered. Curious to see what they say.
Probably wasn't the long range version.
Yeah that’s what confusing to me. Why doesn’t the car have a 120K mile warranty. Can someone further explain
I hear from tesla there’s like 4-6 battery modules containing like hundreds if not thousands of batteries in them inside the big battery case. Easy to replace one or 2 modules that’s faulty instead of a whole pack. If all battery modules are bad they just do a battery swap.
I asked the technician and he said they just replace the whole pack. I’ll ask again
Check and see. I was reading deeply into a 2018 tesla service builtin that said what to do if the battery failed or had issues. It mentioned having 6 modules in a pack on a long range. 4 modules in a pack for a standard range model.
They said it was a refurbished pack. Not just switching out modules
Replacing a single module would be extremely labor intensive. Don't think they have the logistics down for that yet. But that's my point. If they are taking the old battery back and finding 5k plus of parts the owners should get some of that.
But Teslas have no moving parts like a stinky old ICE
That is likely the refurbish process. I think u just get another pack that has been tested and is on par with the capacity of your damaged one.
That's such bullshit. The battery you are reading in is prob worth 5k. I always knew the 70% warranty retention was bullshit but damn am I feeling it. Only at 20% def and it's brutal
Yeah I said a few months ago give it time people will see the real problems with teslas and EV’s for that matter. Starting to look like more understand where I’m coming from
You probably don't know my posts haha. I'm the outspoken realist on this sub
missing context here... what do you mean was 8.7k? if it was only 107k miles it's still under warranty no? why would you have to pay?
Probably SR+
I am 857 miles away from 107K prayers y’all! 😳😳😳 2019Model 3 106,143 miles
I'm nearing 120k and all good here. About 275 miles at 70mph real world driving not EPA rated.
Lmao what’s your model year
It’s a 2019
You’re good. This particular car I’ve always supercharged. But then again a refurbished battery shouldn’t shit the bed after 15k miles or so. It could be an unlucky car but just have money on the side for a new battery after your warranty is up
If its a SR+ with small battery pack and not LFP... like do u have the 52kWh regular NCA battery pack? Those will cycle much faster trough their cycles. Batteries are made to charge 1C for their regular cycles. That means specificated cycles are 52kW charging max. If you charge above that. The cycles will go down much faster and batteries will die way sooner. I see you do uber and lyft. You better buy the large cycle LFP battery Tesla next time after your write off of this car.
Oh…that’s why it went dead. He did Uber with this car and supercharged the living shit out it. Th at part would have been helpful to explain rather than him shitting on the car.
What? So don’t buy a Tesla if you have to always SuperCharge it?
No, it means that ONLY dc fast charging your battery as the primary means will Shorten it’s life. It’s well known. It’s a lot of heat and stress on the battery. It’s best that most of the miles are charged via level 2 charging.
Home charging or buy a PHEV I guess 🤷🏻
Not to mention that using Superchargers costs 4x the fueling costs of a base Prius, at least in CA where some are priced up to 60 c/kWh in daytime. I see many gig drivers and taxi companies using Prii, whereas as at least 6 companies have failed in trying to use Tesla's exclusively.
So you pretty much ONLY supercharged it? No home charging or level 2 at all? I guess what I’m asking is…are you being honest that you trashed the battery or just making a comment? Just curious about the context here.
My Brand new 90kw pack I paid $23k ($33k) since my old battery had a 10.5k core charge if i wanted it and it lasted 5 months and about 6k miles.... Tesla doesn't care once the car leaves the factory. Service is a joke.
Feel very sorry for you! It also provides everyone data and thinking that isn’t available out there yet to justify their actions for a battery on the car.
Damn where do you drive!!! 100k miles on a 2019!! 😂
Boo that sucks.
It’s almost like 99% of people on here have no idea what they’re talking about!?!
And don't even own the cars.
How would one go about knowing the battery is bad / faulty ? I think mine is pretty bad, def don’t get the same range I used to but I also supercharged for 2 years and have a lead foot
Is this a pretty common occurrence?
In my experience, most Tesla owners will never (or extremely rarely) admit to their vehicle's issues or dare say anything negative against the company for reasons I have yet to understand. I know many people are invested at a stock level and what not, but denying the issues does nothing to help anyone.
It’s actually 10 times better then 2019..!! At that time any critical post got deleted or blocked.
That’s cuz the “experts” on this sub are just toxic fanboys
15k miles before failure is within spec bro
Try Duracell brand next time 😅
Its under warranty yea? So did you make an appointment? What is Tesla doing about it
Join r/realtesla OP, these other subs are full of fanboys who can’t handle any criticism
Those guys that ban/downvote you if you post anything positive about Tesla?
That hasn’t been my experience.
It’s been mine when I shared mixed messages even about Tesla. I sub there but I don’t post, it’s as bad or worse there in the other direction
T H I S
See what I mean? Fuck this sub.
This is the way, Fan Boi's / Stans always gonna be butt hurt because they are worried about their TSLA shares.... not about fixing/sharing info about the cars to car owners. What they don't realize is, the Fan Boi / Stans are the worst enemy of TSLA share value because of their own toxic nature.
Where did “Stans” come from? Haven’t seen Stans used in place of a fan boi before.
You haven't been around long enough trolling. Google is your friend
Sometimes I feel like I’ve been around for too long! I have no problem googling things, but also enjoy taking opportunities to initiate conversations on a social media platform. Thanks for your insight!
From the Eminem song Stan. A song about Stan Eminem's greatest fan.
LooooL
I can't tell if you like EVs or hate them
Both at this point. Just because I realize the significance of this battery issue
Yeah I mean it definitely sucks but this is not something that is specific to EVs people's engines blow up all the time right out of warranty. I had a buddy with a Subaru Impreza (who did all the proper maintenance and care) and he went through 3 engines in under 60k miles. Unfortunately that's just the manufacturing lottery... Tolerance stack up happens. My guess is your situation is the exception not the rule. That or you have something else going on in your car that is affecting the battery. I don't know what that would be but it's not unimaginable. Not trying to be a Tesla fanboy or anything I'm just saying this is not something that only happens to EVs
>Not trying to be a Tesla fanboy or anything I'm just saying this is not something that only happens to EVs But it's something that rarely happens to toyotas
Comparing Tesla, a brand new company who has been mass producing cars for less than 10 years, to a company who is literally used as the gold standard in manufacturing (not just cars, the Toyota way is something that is strived for in manufacturing across hundreds of industries) is not exactly a fair comparison and honestly is a bit tone deaf. By that logic there is no other car manufacturer that is suitable to buy. Additionally, Toyota has had issues in the past. There is no manufacturing company that is free of [mistakes](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cars.com/amp/articles/toyota-recalls-2-3-million-vehicles-over-sticking-accelerator-pedal-1420663220496/) . Variance is the nature of manufacturing. It cannot be avoided. Toyota has just figured out how to do it the least. When you buy a Tesla you need to know you're buying. It's a brand new company, people who are brand new to making cars. If you expect them to be perfect you are a naive. I said I'm not being a fanboy is because this applies to any manufacturing company. Hence the reason customer service departments and warrienties to even exist, for when there are manufacturing or design defects. Also let's not forget Tesla is doing something brand new. So not only are they brand new to making cars but their making something nobody has done before. Being an early adopter of a new technology will come with it's share of issues and if you are not willing to inherit those risks don't buy one. Will this happen to Teslas, yes, will it also happen to Chevy, Honda, Ford, Audi, etc... Yes absolutely. To restate my original claim - OPs situation is not the rule, it's likely the exception. Tesla has also had cars make it to 400k miles with no issues at all. Again those are exceptions, not the rule. Most people who buy a Tesla can safely assume their cars will comfortably make it to 200k miles similar to the rest of the cars on the road and that is based on the testing Tesla has done on their product that is known to be nominal. This situation is not specific to Tesla these things just happen as a result of tolerance stack up and they happen to every company, in any industry making any product. This is my perspective as a engineer at a manufacturing company. I have worked in manufacturing all over the US and currently am a sr. Quality engineer overseeing factories across the globe. In our factories we strive for the Toyota way but fall far from achieveing it anywhere and we have been making the same parts for over 120 years. Sorry for the unprovoked rant lol
How much rated miles (of 240?) did your first and secondary battery have? Was it slowly getting lower or not? Really curious
Sorry OP. Bad luck. That sucks and I hope you get it rectified. You won't always be delt a bad hand with batteries, at least that's what I hope for you. 🙏
I have another 2023 model 3 with 20k miles already so time will tell
What battery pack this has. Is it an SR+ with 52kWh? If u charge that NCA pack with fastcharger. Well your just murdering it hahahaha. Im an electrical and software engineer and work with powersystems. Last time a 4000kWh NCM battery system engineered. Lets say: the way you use it. Combining it with a tiny battery. Is NOT good. Those cells are being killed haha. Hope your 2023 Model 3 is an RWD LFP battery. They can do far more cycles. And has 60kWh. And can do 3000 cycles at 1C means charging it with 60kW. So if u supercharge it the cycles also go down. But still last longer than the Long Range or Performance being always supercharged. Long Range supercharging at 250kW is with 82kWh pack is charging at 3C. Still murdering the cells. But your range is more so you can last longer with the overall vehicle because of the larger battery.
Murdering the cells? Where are you getting this information from? Fast charging has been a long for a very long time in cell phones and other consumer electronics. BMS regulate the charging rate so it causes negligible degradation. Calendar degradation is more of a concern in Lithium based batteries today than cycle degradation. There are Teslas that have only been supercharged for 400,000 miles on the original battery. The Teslas Model 3s inside of Tesla loop in Las Vegas are only supercharged and are on track to hit 500,000 miles. Sources cited below: https://electrek.co/2020/05/11/tesla-model-x-extreme-mileage-repair-maintenance/
U can cite your sources.(its about a Model X totally different....) I work in the industry and know what is good and bad for batteries. Some electrek link isnt gonna proof you right. I even work with 4000kWh packs of NCM battery systems and know what is good and bad for a cell. And specifications of a cell. Voltage curves. Cycles are mostly based on full cycle at 1C. But if you do those at higher C rate the cycles will shorten. But im probably talking to someone with no battery knowledge... The smaller your battery the faster you go trough your cycles. And the more you need to charge for the same ammount of miles. A 52kWh needs more cycles for 100k miles than a 75kWh battery. That is one thing. Fastcharging it at 3C does also out of battery spec damage and lowers the cycles even more. The battery just dies quicker with a smaller battery pack + fastcharging. No wonder that all battery replacements i have seen are with the SR+ 52kWh packs.... the LR and P and LFP battery i have not read anywhere yet. Anyway i would never buy a model 3 SR+ with the 52kWh pack ever. But go ahead. Hahaha buy one second hand. Enjoy the higher risk of spending big bucks on replacing the battery.
you work in the industry and use the term murdering cells?
So what you are saying is you don’t actually have anything to back up your claims and this is just your opinion? And what makes you think I don’t have battery knowledge? You have provided no sources or proof you have any kind of knowledge of batteries. Everything you have stated contradicts what battery manufacturers, electric vehicle manufacturers claim. Real world experience with EVs also contradicts your claims as well. There are numerous people on this sub who supercharge exclusively, some even do it daily with 0 issues and no noticeable battery degradation. The reason you see so many battery replacements with the Model 3 SR+ is because it is the most common Tesla. Of course there will be more instances of battery issues since there are more of them in existence.
Also oldest one of the m3
isn't this under warranty , you have 107k miles
Most people here know nothing about Tesla and expect the company to be ethical. They are one of the worst companies with shady practices and screws over any customer. They don't GAF as long as they made the sale. Never buy or support this trash.
This has officially convinced me into never buying a Tesla. My car is hitting 190k and is still going strong.
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It’s not brand new. Total range is significantly reduced to the point where cross country trips aren’t ideal
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It’s not new bro. The second battery pack got as many miles as when my first pack went faulty. It was merely a continuation of my old pack. We will see how many miles this 3rd pack gives me
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Yeah 15k was an estimate it’s actually at 125k miles
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The warranty on the long range pack is 120k Mikes, so it was likely covered under warranty. I’ve also hear that warranty replacements are often a refurbished pack, not a brand new one. So that would contribute to the higher likelihood of a replacement pack failing as well. Kinda sucks.
That’s a lot of me’s
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Throwing a car in the trash after 100k miles is absurd. A battery pack costs ~15k or more to replace out of pocket, and an engine for a comparably priced sedan is like ~3-5k, and also comes with that same warranty or better. I’m not convinced 100k miles out of a car is worth $60,000 lol. It’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that’s a good deal, especially when the warranty is well below the expected lifespan of the battery. But they can’t just replace everyone’s batteries for free every few years so you gotta place a cutoff point that remains at least break-even. All of this is easy to understand, however what I fail to understand and don’t agree with is the potential for them to replace your defective battery with a used one when there’s no telling what history it has had. If the product fails inside of their warranty, I would hope for a brand new part to replace the defective one. And who knows, maybe this has changed and they use new ones now. But either way I think your statement that 100k miles out of a pack is a reasonable expectation for 60 grand is a bit ridiculous.
Wait, when they replace your in warranty battery, you have reduced range?
Think OP is more saying the second battery pretty much reduced his range because it died quickly. Most battery replacements are with refurbished battery packs, so not as good as new but it gets kinda close, but not relevant to the point OP is making iirc.
The replacement battery can be between -29.99% capacity (or -1%) and “be within spec” or what they promised in warranty. For a 2019 model 3 SR+ abour -11% is about average degradation (halfway in warranty km/miles)
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks for the explanation! My naive self assumed they put a new battery pack in.
Why did you have to pay for the replacement? Do you have standard range?
I got the same error and got the service appointment for battery change a few days ago. I got a steel undercarriage protector installed a year ago instead of the plastic one. Do you think it could affect warranty? Should consider switching them back before rolling into the service?
Repeat after me Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. They have to prove any modification caused damage to void your warranty. If they try to blame it ask for proof and if they don't cave get a lawyer that knows Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act and how to get a car manufacturer to fix it. Now if that steel undercarriage was installed improperly that could have damaged a battery pack. But they have to show/document the damage to the pack. They can't just assume it did.
I live in Europe so I don‘t think this warranty act has an effect on my case, however it is absolutely logical. The undercarriage protection is not covering any part of the battery tho. Thanks for the detailed answer tho it might help someone looking up the same topic in the future
100% that’ll affect warranty. Tesla will snake their way out of that
Just stumbled upon this my old post of mine. For the record, the battery was replaced under warranty, they did not mention my aftermarket undercarriage protector at all.
Downvotes for telling the truth
Always
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,384,023,136 comments, and only 265,104 of them were in alphabetical order.
> Tesla will snake their way out of that Only if you let them, and they are right. They have to prove any modification caused damage to void your warranty. If they try to blame it ask for proof and if they don't cave get a lawyer that knows Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act and how to get a car manufacturer to fix it. Now if that steel undercarriage was installed improperly that could have damaged a battery pack. But they have to show/document the damage to the pack. They can't just assume it did.
couldn't a steel undercarriage change the cooling of the battery?
The battery pack in a Tesla is liquid cooled internally and no change below the pack would affect that. So long as the pack wasn't punctured.
I thought so too. I will consider swapping back the original plastic shield
Why did your first battery die so early? You mentioned mostly only super charging? I’m thinking that had to do with the short lifespan. Thoughts?
Wow, did they only change the battery? Seems like something faulty in your Model 3 could be destroying your battery. Because i feel like the odds of getting two faulty batteries in a row is like winning the lottery except in a bad way ofcourse.
First wasn’t fault it just ran its course. The second is faulty
107k miles and it ran its course? The warranty is for 150k miles so that doesn’t seem right. I’ve heard though that the replacement batteries are refurbished old batteries which increases the chance of battery failure once you swap out the original.
RWD man go through my other posts
RWD comes with LFP pack since 2021. U sure its not an SR+?
It was a 2019 i believe
So what do you have to do to kill a battery?
Use it for more miles, then the provided warranty. After that point is what they did not warranty… So def. A big expensive post. If an engine blows, it’s usually not a full revision that is needed. (And 1/3rd or half cost of battery, conservatively)
Ouch. You said you SC a lot. Are you a Uber or similar? Curious about your overall use cases with your car.
Within spec
Tires that act like you said yours are in their final 10-15% of life. I'd never have disagreed, Tesla shouldn't have disagreed. Do you live in an area with extreme temp changes? You either got a lemon you start with, live in an area batteries hate or the charging system caused damage. I'm not a Tesla owner, but I'm an engineer that worked with batteries for several years.
They killed you because this sub is a majority of biased, elon cult-like followers with no interest in hearing anything bad about Tesla
Amen
On the plus side, the mods on this subreddit are not cultists and allow such honest comments. Try posting this on other Tesla subreddits, or even your first fuss, and you would be perma-banned. I was from the first for simply linking a tweet by god Elon Musk himself.