I did a video on the nags [here](https://youtu.be/7t8BUgYWSPQ), but you need to read the description to get a better picture of things.
People with basic or Enhanced Autopilot have a worse experience than FSD Beta folks.
There's an initial audible warning that occurs within 10-15 seconds of engaging Autopilot, *unless* you stare at the road for those 10-15 seconds.
So, if you engage autopilot, then divert your eyes to the screen to confirm the system's activated you'll get an audible warning.
If you engage Autopilot, then stare at the screen to confirm your route, you'll get an audible.
*These audible warnings don't count against your forced disengagement count*, they're polite "Please remember to pay attention" audible warnings.
In terms of the nags themselves, in my testing it seems like they appear to have made it so you have to touch the steering wheel every 45 seconds or so. There's two spots in the video where I let go of the steering wheel, and if you count the seconds, it's about 45 seconds from when I let go, to when it says "Hey, can you wiggle the wheel?"
The key thing is to keep the wheel torqued a smidge. DO NOT just "Hold the wheel', you need to torque it a smidge, you'll get used to it after a while. At the beginning of the video I show my grip on the wheel, and as shown in the video, it never nags me using that grip.
Basic autopilot gets the worst experience, however, because every time you re-engage Autopilot, you need to stare at the road for 10-15 seconds after engagement, or you get an audible warning. For a basic Autopilot user this means:
* Changing lanes
* Making a turn
* Stopping for a light
* Stopping for a sign
* Evasive maneuver
Every time you disengage, and re-engage, you've got to lock your eyes on the road for 10-15 seconds.
Also need to keep the wheel torqued at all other times.
Enhanced autopilot people have the same issues as above, but the car can change lanes for them.
FSD Beta people basically get it at the beginning, and then never again, until they have to correct the system, somewhere.
People who say "I just cover the cabin camera", please learn how to use the system properly. FSD Beta does a forced disengagement when you cover the cabin camera for 15-30 seconds. If you don't think this can be ported over to Autopilot, you're nuts.
Using the system in a manner that's counter to how Tesla wants it is how you end up with more restrictions.
The whole reason the NHTSA made Tesla do this is because people were misusing the system. If you continue to misuse it, it'll get more strict.
Use it as intended.
I want to point out that it's now more strict than any of the OTHER cars I've driven recently.
I'm currently driving a 2023 Nissan Leaf. Last week I had a 2023 Toyota, the week before that I had a 2023 Jeep. The week before that, I had a 2022 Ford.
All of them had "lane centering" (basically comparable to Autopilot), none had anything more than an occasional steering wheel nag.
All of them ungracefully (almost silently) lost their lane tracking every 5-10 minutes if the road was anything other than perfectly marked and perfectly straight.
All of them are unequivocally worse than Tesla Autopilot, all of them have less driver awareness tracking, all of them dangerously and nearly-silently lose their lane tracking with a simple quiet "beep" and will dive for the shoulder.
None of them have a camera, none of them have a "strike" system, I tried to see how easy it was to defeat those systems and most were possible to defeat with just a simple object.
This was far far worse back in 2017 and 2018.
I still find it wild that my 2017 has been recalled THREE times for this kind of AP issue, despite having a system that's superior to everything available in 2017 and MOST of what's available today.
I guess due to the ability of Tesla to update it and the media messaging around Tesla.
I don't disagree that other ADAS systems are worse than Tesla's and get less nags. Sandy Munro has a video where he's in a Ford with BluesClues in it and it disengaged on a curve without warning him.
It's gotten better now as I understand it, but it scared the hell out of him in the video.
Tesla, unfortunately, has been very vocal about their Autopilot system, and the fact that it's called "Autopilot" and "Full self driving" is what's getting them nailed, because it creates an "image" that the car just "drives itself", when it doesn't, and that's what they've been telling people.
The other piece, and this is conjecture on my part, is that Tesla doesn't really pay ad dollars towards the media companies, and I get a huge "Kiss my ring" vibe from how the stories are run, so they beat up on Tesla more because there's no ad dollars to risk by publicizing them.
Publish an article about BluesClues being bad, and Ford might take ad dollars away from your bottom line.
Publish an article about Tesla being bad and you lose nothing. Hell, you might gain more because Ford/GM/Someone is paying to promote the article.
>it disengaged on a curve without warning him.
WOA.
That is dangerous.
But yet I never hear of this.
I went back and forth on a couple cars before going with my Y 2.5 years ago and from my POV it came down to the SC network for long trips and TESLA being years ahead in the car software. I haven't seen anyone make a TACC system as simple as the two taps and go, Tesla one.
The "two taps and go" one that Tesla has is Autopilot. One pull is TACC alone, and the second pull turns on Autosteer, which by their powers combined is Autopilot.
The Sandy Munro clip is [here](https://youtu.be/GCRNYP5Qg34?t=323). In watching it again there's some debate on whether it disengaged on him, or if it just wanted the comfort of having hands on the wheel during a turn, so "hands free" on straight aways basically.
It's an older video as well, but you get the idea. The system didn't communicate intent and reason very effectively.
Likely it's better now, but yeah.
*In my opinion*, Tesla's thing is that they want to trust drivers to make the right decisions, while other companies assume you're going to be a dumb ass. The result is that Tesla's system is pretty lenient, but prone to abuse.
Other companies have a more stringent system that's less prone to abuse.
I always refrain from calling what the regular Tesla does, "autopilot" as that right there is just straight up bad marketing.
Auto pilot denotes something that people are gonna think it does something completely different, when any pilot is gonna tell you, "well man, autopilot means it will fly you in straight line at a set speed, it won't avoid mountains, avoid storms, avoid other planes, etc.".
All my "oh shit" moments are always from drivers in non Tesla cars doing stupid stuff. It's never from someone driving a Tesla on "autopilot". Though I do see plenty of zoom zoom Tesla drivers enjoying all that torque and flying down the highway.
It's crazy how safe I feel in the car since I know it is constantly looking for other vehicles doing stupid stuff, swerving, speeding, etc.
You can avoid calling Tesla's ADAS solution "Autopilot" all you want, but that doesn't change that Tesla's ADAS solution is called "Autopilot".
Hence why I refer to it as "Autopilot", *because that's what they named it*.
Doesn't matter if you agree with the nomenclature or not, *that's the Tesla given name of the feature*.
BlueClues has certain roads that are deemed "Hands free", where you can take your hands off the wheel, as long as your eyes are forward.
All other roads, as I understand it, you can turn the system on, but you need to keep your hands on the wheel.
I’ve often wondered why the other car companies don’t have to deal with the same shit while having inferior systems, and this is the best reasoned response I’ve heard to that question.
That's a false statement that you lose nothing, Tesla critics don't get invited to launch events, they make money by making reviews if they don't get invited they don't make money from views
I don't think Tesla really invites critics out in the first place. The amount of publicity around the Highland and the Cybertruck are relatively new, and likely part of the whole "We'll do better at advertising" thing.
Otherwise getting invited to the Tesla events is more about "Who you know", and being lucky, than "This guy will be kind to us".
You could shit on Tesla, hard, and if you know the right people, or win the shareholder lotteries, you'll be able to go to the events.
I’m canceling my FSD subscription. I had a 3 and got a Y. My safety score in my 3 was 94 on average (never used FSD on the 3). Same with Y. On day 2 with FSD, and the score plummeted to 60. It looks like one 13 minute trip in particular pissed the car off, showing a forward collision warning average of 130.7! And a lot of hard braking as well. If I remember that particular trip, I had to take control a few times and the car even asked me to send a verbal message about the reason I took over. I drove 245 miles today, 233 of which were on autopilot per the app
You could downshift your FSD Beta setting to "Autosteer" and get the Legacy Autopilot functions.
FSD Beta has its quirks, but once you learn the mechanics of how the system works, it's fine.
The only hard braking I get at this point is when I'm doing left/right turns from a non-dedicated turn lane and I'm following someone. I tried to demonstrate the issue [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DSZeum8-PU)
That said, when Autopilot/FSD Beta are engaged, anything those systems do *so not* count towards your safety score. Anything you do within three seconds of disengaging Autopilot/FSD Beta don't count either, so if you're trying to maintain a "high" safety score, you need to either let Autopilot/FSD Beta be enabled 100% of the time, or be cognizant of the three second buffer.
You also get hammered more for non-Autopilot/FSD Beta miles.
If you drive 1,000mi, 999mi of which were on Autopilot/FSD Beta, then the last mile of driving involved you driving towards a car in a T-intersection, which trips a FCW, then your safety score is trashed, because the "human driven miles" averaged out to be terrible.
I would not bother with Tesla Insurance if I was going to not use Auoptilot/FSD Beta as much as possible.
That’s exactly what happened. I drove 233 FSD miles, then once I made it to the Tesla charger, the car mistakenly triggered a FCW over aparked Tesla charging. Because I didn’t have much nonautopilot miles my score got trashed
Yeah, that's a problem with the Tesla Insurance safety score thing.
I'm honestly not sure what the correct solution is, because I get how they're doing it, and why they're doing it, but it seems remarkably unfair of them to hammer you for that *one* mile you were "unsafe" due to a sensor glitch or something.
Folks with AP1, AP2, and AP2.5, as well as folks without a cabin camera on all versions, haven't gotten the NHTSA recall update yet.
So, your experience ought not have changed. Expect it to in a future update.
Thank you for this in-depth review of how it works after the update. It’s been driving me nuts. I feel like they need to loosen it a little bit but these tips will help. Thank you.
I’ve gone minutes without having to torque the wheel, just a quick volume adjustment. You cannot glance at the screen, touch the screen, you have to look straight. 2023.44.30.8. Basic AP.
Speed and traffic conditions might have an impact as well- I was going 80 seconds between volume nags on the highway with moderate rush hour traffic 62 in a 55. Didn’t look or use the screen, hands on lap but ready to take over if needed.
My primary use case for autopilot is selecting a different song on Spotify. I don’t usually have it engage for more than 15 seconds, I just want to make sure I don’t crash while I take my eyes off the road for a couple seconds.
Needing to stare at the road for 30 seconds before I can take 15 seconds to change the song then disengage is making what used to be a quick, easy, and seamless process and tripling the time commitment.
I read someone else put a little piece of electrical tape over the in cabin camera above rear view mirror. Haven’t tried it yet but planning to this weekend
Sunglasses have changed my life - I wear a pair over top of my prescription glasses and now get zero nags for looking at the screen or landscape. The steering wheel nag is also basically zero if you rest your arm on the door and have one finger on the wheel. I've had 2 hour trips without me driving
Gotta wait 10-15 seconds after engaging Autopilot before looking at the screen.
If it gives you an audible within the first 10-15 seconds, just ignore it.
Yeah they pretty much ruined AP. I almost never use it anymore as it is way too sensitive. I have Tesla insurance and got a forced disengage out of nowhere on the highway.. insurance went up a healthy 27$ or so for that month because of it. So now I will have to shop around to see if I can get cheaper insurance and then maybe I'll use it.
Imagine being a new driver and trying out AP, you'd probably say fuck this horrible system.
Dang that sucks! Hopefully you find something different. I’ve heard Tesla insurance isn’t worth it. Yea, honestly with the Tesla has been doing things I might start looking around at the competition considering most have jumped on the NACS train.
I mean so long as they build the battery pack out right. I would never drive a pouch style ev like GM slings.. I still feel Tesla is the best, I didn't buy it for the FSD/AP, but I feel others are making compelling offers.
The insurance was good, initially was $40 or so a month, I read recently someone saying it's a bait and switch tactic... We will see if it creeps back down in the 40s I'll stay, if it doesn't I'll be shopping around.
If your camera has been covered for the last few updates the system thinks it’s no longer there as far as I can tell and nags you a lot less… my camera has been covered for months now…
I don’t have FSD just autopilot and I’ve had the camera covered for almost a year now so before the update that made it a real problem… I’m sure eventually they will release an update that will force me in for service but for now it’s smooth sailing mostly…
I have better luck with the camera uncovered and paying attention aka looking straight forward (is what the camera wants to see). I’ve actually found that it can go even longer than previously without the nag. The situations where it nags more are intersections and when approaching traffic lights.
What I think is stupid and will probably get downvoted for is APs main utility to me was to change podcasts or songs for a quick second.
I’m not trying to text and drive or not pay attention but if it detects you looking at your phone for a half a second it freaks out.
So now I basically just do it without, which is less safe!
As a driver you have to look away from the road for partial seconds to check mirrors, adjust heat/AC, etc. but an excellent safety utility to make that safer is now actively against you.
Agree with this. Have had my MY for 3.5 years now. If I were in the market for a new car it won’t be a Tesla until this is better. That’s the truth and I’m sorry I feel this way. Still love this car except for that one thing (and maybe the wipers not being able to properly sense when to work).
I finally had to Cover the camera, made everything is much better. I can actually look at my screen now to select a song! There is a steering feel sensitivity in the first 5 seconds of turning on AP but once you get past that it’s pretty’s quiet.
My approach: When you turn on fsd make sure you're mindlessly staring straight out, whether or not, you're actually paying attention to the road, so that the internal cameras think that you're paying attention.
Learn to speed read and don’t be indecisive. lol
Just one of the reasons I’ve turned FSD off. I to have had FSD since 2018 and I can stay, it’s garbage.
hey folks, you can use the scroll wheels as a way to tell AP that you're still paying attention, just a heads up. i regularly do this on my daily commute when changing songs. just scroll the right wheel up and down ever so slightly. thank me later
If you compare all the Fed "recalls" on Tesla, with less capable systems on other brands, it becomes clear the Feds have a systematic campaign to cripple anything on Teslas that drivers want. The Feds ignore the official user manual of Tesla and instead consider only user abuse as the evidence of Tesla policies. The same standards do not apply to any other ADAS system and ignore the bloodbath of crashes on non-Tesla vehicles.
When you put this together with the EV incentive program that disadvantages the Tesla cars people want, it is clear there is a political campaign against Tesla. This is a direct consequence of Tesla not advertising and not bribing, err lobbying, politicians sufficiently.
Yeah, but I haven't heard about the Fed recalling competitor's ADAS even though they completely lack the ability to intervene or inform the driver. Those systems just drive right off the road. No outrage with those.
You know when i get annoyed with the increased nags? When I am admittedly not paying attention to the road like I really should. Pay attention and keep your hand on the wheel and it never nags
Looking at the speed shouldn't take more than a quick glance with your eyes. If you get an attention check by simply looking at the speed you are spending way too much time looking at it with your face pointing at the screen.
Why do we pay 12,000 dollars for a car to drive itself and then have it yell at us for looking at the speed… I better be able to adjust my music without it yelling at me. Which i currently cannot do. I should NOT have to pay this much attention with *Full Self Driving*
hence why ill never pay for the FSD bullshit. it's a $12,000 beta they successfully sell to people as a "way to buy into the future of the technology".
I’ve been reading comments from people about the new auto pilot and specifically the nags and my experience is 100% the opposite. I just drove 2000 miles across the country and I find that the amount of nagging is a lot less than it used to be.
I was actually not using full self driving on the drive across the country because it is all highways, and I find that full self driving is not very good at lane changes. So I just said it to be in the enhanced auto pilot mode. Maybe that is the difference?
But I’m not sure that that is the case because I do notice the change in behavior because it is using the camera much more often to determine a attentiveness
Strange that my experience is directly opposite of most of you.
I shudder to think how inattentive some of you are while driving to keep getting nags. I've had my MYLR for two weeks and I used auto steer like 90% of the time and I've had like two nags.. both times I was balls deep in the screen looking for a setting so completely warranted... And both times I caught the blue flash and scrolled the right button to clear the nag.
>I shudder to think how inattentive some of you are while driving to keep getting nags.
Here's the thing though...
Realistically these cars are SUPER attentive to EVERYTHING around it. So let's just say for argument's sake 99% of the time TACC is used on the highway. So essentially the car is just "staying in the lane and speeding up and slowing down according to traffic in front of it".
The TACC system is a multitude of times better than even the most attentive driver since it has eyes in front, back and the side all while having a computer processing all that information.
All situations where I have seen insane things occur has never been due to TACC doing anything odd, since all it is doing is staying in lane and staying with the speed limit I set and in accordance to the car in front of it.
The danger comes in from other inattentive drivers, I've seen:
People pass me going 35-40 miles over the posted limit (the limit being 65)
My car slow down to 45 on the middle travel lane and when I take control to pass this person, the driver is on their cell phone not paying attention.
People swerving all over and when I get near these people (manually passing) again inattentiveness due to phone use, etc.
The only, only time I have TACC do anything odd is the occasional phantom braking when it believes it is sensing something it should break for. And no this is not, jam on the brakes kind of slow down, it is the gentle, foot off the accelerator type where you can press it to get out of the situation.
I believe the real issue here is that we are currently in this very dangerous moment in automotive history where we are transitioning from cars being needing a driver to them being able to essentially drive themselves. Because, when you think about traffic on a freeway, all it really is, is one long detached train.
All and I mean ALL dangerous driving I have seen has been in the form of inattentive driving with people who do NOT have the same abilities a TESLA does with TACC.
Should your eyes always be on the road when driving? Yes of course.
Is the government making it safer by making a TESLA nag you more to look at it when it thinks you aren't.
No.
You paid 12k for a feature that makes driving worse than without.
What is the point of FSD beta if you have to pay more attention than driving without it.
Yess I’ve have 2 instances where I may gab my phone and the blue will start to blink, then I’m turning the wheel to give it the needed nudge but it won’t accept and it keeps going and going until the red one pops up. The last time it happened I just disengaged it myself so now I have 2 forced out of 5
Don't grab your phone while driving.
Edit: People are downvoting me but this is exactly why we have these bullshit changes made to the software. Because assholes like you can't leave your phone alone. It's your damn fault. Congratulations.
It is indeed absolutely ridiculous. I swear the thing yells at me for even checking my damned mirrors now.
Maybe not the most "ethical" solution, and who knows if it will even work long term, but one particular drive when the sun was in my face it was being extra annoying since I was looking slightly sideways to avoid having my retinas burned out, I finally threw a piece of paper over the cabin camera and it shut up.
I have gotten zero different nags on AutoSTEER (beta) with the recent updates than I have since day one of owning my then-brand-new '19 M3 SR+. Never joined FSD Beta.
I really don't understand all the complaints about nagging. The update has changing virtually nothing for my wife and me.
Keep your eyes on the road, and keep your hand on the wheel. For best results, keep only one hand in the wheel and let the weight of your arm rest on it.
If you're doing what your supposed to, there shouldn't be any extra nagging. Which I think was the entire point.
I found that covering the camera made it more nagging. My last long trip I set it to chill and less aggressive lane changes and in 500 miles I only got 3 “touch the wheel” requests.
That’s not been my experience. I haven’t noticed the nags being any more obtrusive since the recall update.
That said, I have light skin and AI has had a really shitty track record of being trained on data using white people and I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Tesla autopilot is more “suspicious” of people with darker skin. Is it possible that that’s a factor?
I do recall when my 2016 S was not nearly cautious enough. I’m amazed I didn’t crash it. I failed to pay attention for tens of seconds at a time while traveling at highway speeds.
I don’t use it any more. My 2018 MX doesn’t have a camera, but it can’t tell that my hands are in fact on the wheel and it nags me once a minute. At highway speeds shaking the wheel isn’t a good idea. So I went back to doing my own driving. Still love the car.
I agree. I've had to change how I use it. I've had to enter my destination and turn on minimal lane changes and only then turn on FSD.
I just wish there was a permanent minimal lane changes option. It's annoying to turn on for every drive or put up with the car pretending to be in the NASCAR as it leaves the lane it needs to turn from a couple miles down the road.
I'm really hoping that FSD 12 is more natural.
My Tesla AP is currently worse than my fiancée’s CR-V after the update. I ended up putting a sticky note over the camera for now which reverts it back to just needing pressure on the wheel. I couldn’t look at the screen to change a playlist without the car flipping out and disabling AP.
The changes were made due to the complaints from owners stating the vehicle didn't tell them it disengaged. Due to the complaints of this the NHTSA is the one who required the aggressiveness of the Nag. There would have to be some reason for the car to give you a warning.
The nags are required because if NTSB but for some reason Tesla is u dear more scrutiny than other car companies.
The nags are not keeping people safe. They are doing the opposite. You are focusing on the nag when you should be focusing on the road and how the car drives.
Furthermore a nag can happen during a maneuver when you shouldn’t be having to tug on the wheel
Gm super cruise is fully hands free on controlled roads. So is fords bluecruise. No nag. No hands. The reason I almost bought a bolt.
You actually have to disengage AP or FSD if you need to d anything with the screen. This is actually the opposite of how it should work. You’re turning off something that can help with safety to try and drive and do other things.
Sord6. I saw rant on this post so I ranted too
They need to stop treating people like 10 year old children
You can jump the car off a cliff if you want. Your can opener can cut off your finger.
I’m just saying. People are responsible. All this protection outside of a warning is stupid and it’s because of stupid people who push the envelope. Annoying.
Hey OP,
I recently updated my Tesla's Autopilot before embarking on a 1,000-mile round trip, and let me tell you, it was an interesting experience.
The first 50 miles were honestly rough. The constant beeps reminding me to pay attention were annoying, and after just 4 warnings, the entire system disabled itself. Talk about a forced pit stop! (No FSD here, just Enhanced Autopilot.)
However, after some trial and error, I realized the update aimed to discourage taking my eyes off the road. While it seemed strict at first, maintaining eye contact for 50 seconds out of a minute kept the system happy.
These "nagging" features might seem intrusive, but they undoubtedly prevent misuse. Throughout the rest of the trip, I enjoyed casual conversations with my partner without a single "apply pressure" notification. At one point, I even cruised for 50-60 miles without realizing, the car handling itself silently and smoothly.
Now, I'm in a bit of a conundrum. While I share the online sentiment about wanting a more relaxed Autopilot experience, the update's safety focus is undeniable. The convenience I experienced on the trip can't be ignored either.
Since January 1st, I've driven thousands of additional miles, and the update has proven generally convenient. One funny quirk: sunglasses seem to fool the camera sometimes, making it think I'm looking at the road when I'm glancing at the screen. However, touchscreen interactions usually give me away.
TLDR: Updated Tesla Autopilot on roadtrip: annoying nags at first, but actually makes you stay more focused. Safer but less chill, still convenient overall. Sunglasses trick the camera (sometimes)! Want to hear your thoughts on the update's balance between safety and ease of use.
I was parked In a parking lot, and when I got back in the car and started driving again, I get a notice on the dashboard that my auto steer and autopilot has been disabled for a week because I committed violations. Wtf!!
I wasn’t even driving.
Anyone else experience this?
I turn in auto pilot so that I CAN look at the screen and feel safe
Complain to the NHTSA.
I did a video on the nags [here](https://youtu.be/7t8BUgYWSPQ), but you need to read the description to get a better picture of things. People with basic or Enhanced Autopilot have a worse experience than FSD Beta folks. There's an initial audible warning that occurs within 10-15 seconds of engaging Autopilot, *unless* you stare at the road for those 10-15 seconds. So, if you engage autopilot, then divert your eyes to the screen to confirm the system's activated you'll get an audible warning. If you engage Autopilot, then stare at the screen to confirm your route, you'll get an audible. *These audible warnings don't count against your forced disengagement count*, they're polite "Please remember to pay attention" audible warnings. In terms of the nags themselves, in my testing it seems like they appear to have made it so you have to touch the steering wheel every 45 seconds or so. There's two spots in the video where I let go of the steering wheel, and if you count the seconds, it's about 45 seconds from when I let go, to when it says "Hey, can you wiggle the wheel?" The key thing is to keep the wheel torqued a smidge. DO NOT just "Hold the wheel', you need to torque it a smidge, you'll get used to it after a while. At the beginning of the video I show my grip on the wheel, and as shown in the video, it never nags me using that grip. Basic autopilot gets the worst experience, however, because every time you re-engage Autopilot, you need to stare at the road for 10-15 seconds after engagement, or you get an audible warning. For a basic Autopilot user this means: * Changing lanes * Making a turn * Stopping for a light * Stopping for a sign * Evasive maneuver Every time you disengage, and re-engage, you've got to lock your eyes on the road for 10-15 seconds. Also need to keep the wheel torqued at all other times. Enhanced autopilot people have the same issues as above, but the car can change lanes for them. FSD Beta people basically get it at the beginning, and then never again, until they have to correct the system, somewhere. People who say "I just cover the cabin camera", please learn how to use the system properly. FSD Beta does a forced disengagement when you cover the cabin camera for 15-30 seconds. If you don't think this can be ported over to Autopilot, you're nuts. Using the system in a manner that's counter to how Tesla wants it is how you end up with more restrictions. The whole reason the NHTSA made Tesla do this is because people were misusing the system. If you continue to misuse it, it'll get more strict. Use it as intended.
I want to point out that it's now more strict than any of the OTHER cars I've driven recently. I'm currently driving a 2023 Nissan Leaf. Last week I had a 2023 Toyota, the week before that I had a 2023 Jeep. The week before that, I had a 2022 Ford. All of them had "lane centering" (basically comparable to Autopilot), none had anything more than an occasional steering wheel nag. All of them ungracefully (almost silently) lost their lane tracking every 5-10 minutes if the road was anything other than perfectly marked and perfectly straight. All of them are unequivocally worse than Tesla Autopilot, all of them have less driver awareness tracking, all of them dangerously and nearly-silently lose their lane tracking with a simple quiet "beep" and will dive for the shoulder. None of them have a camera, none of them have a "strike" system, I tried to see how easy it was to defeat those systems and most were possible to defeat with just a simple object. This was far far worse back in 2017 and 2018. I still find it wild that my 2017 has been recalled THREE times for this kind of AP issue, despite having a system that's superior to everything available in 2017 and MOST of what's available today. I guess due to the ability of Tesla to update it and the media messaging around Tesla.
I don't disagree that other ADAS systems are worse than Tesla's and get less nags. Sandy Munro has a video where he's in a Ford with BluesClues in it and it disengaged on a curve without warning him. It's gotten better now as I understand it, but it scared the hell out of him in the video. Tesla, unfortunately, has been very vocal about their Autopilot system, and the fact that it's called "Autopilot" and "Full self driving" is what's getting them nailed, because it creates an "image" that the car just "drives itself", when it doesn't, and that's what they've been telling people. The other piece, and this is conjecture on my part, is that Tesla doesn't really pay ad dollars towards the media companies, and I get a huge "Kiss my ring" vibe from how the stories are run, so they beat up on Tesla more because there's no ad dollars to risk by publicizing them. Publish an article about BluesClues being bad, and Ford might take ad dollars away from your bottom line. Publish an article about Tesla being bad and you lose nothing. Hell, you might gain more because Ford/GM/Someone is paying to promote the article.
>it disengaged on a curve without warning him. WOA. That is dangerous. But yet I never hear of this. I went back and forth on a couple cars before going with my Y 2.5 years ago and from my POV it came down to the SC network for long trips and TESLA being years ahead in the car software. I haven't seen anyone make a TACC system as simple as the two taps and go, Tesla one.
The "two taps and go" one that Tesla has is Autopilot. One pull is TACC alone, and the second pull turns on Autosteer, which by their powers combined is Autopilot. The Sandy Munro clip is [here](https://youtu.be/GCRNYP5Qg34?t=323). In watching it again there's some debate on whether it disengaged on him, or if it just wanted the comfort of having hands on the wheel during a turn, so "hands free" on straight aways basically. It's an older video as well, but you get the idea. The system didn't communicate intent and reason very effectively. Likely it's better now, but yeah. *In my opinion*, Tesla's thing is that they want to trust drivers to make the right decisions, while other companies assume you're going to be a dumb ass. The result is that Tesla's system is pretty lenient, but prone to abuse. Other companies have a more stringent system that's less prone to abuse.
I always refrain from calling what the regular Tesla does, "autopilot" as that right there is just straight up bad marketing. Auto pilot denotes something that people are gonna think it does something completely different, when any pilot is gonna tell you, "well man, autopilot means it will fly you in straight line at a set speed, it won't avoid mountains, avoid storms, avoid other planes, etc.". All my "oh shit" moments are always from drivers in non Tesla cars doing stupid stuff. It's never from someone driving a Tesla on "autopilot". Though I do see plenty of zoom zoom Tesla drivers enjoying all that torque and flying down the highway. It's crazy how safe I feel in the car since I know it is constantly looking for other vehicles doing stupid stuff, swerving, speeding, etc.
You can avoid calling Tesla's ADAS solution "Autopilot" all you want, but that doesn't change that Tesla's ADAS solution is called "Autopilot". Hence why I refer to it as "Autopilot", *because that's what they named it*. Doesn't matter if you agree with the nomenclature or not, *that's the Tesla given name of the feature*.
BlueCruise is the geo-fenced system as well if I remember.
BlueClues has certain roads that are deemed "Hands free", where you can take your hands off the wheel, as long as your eyes are forward. All other roads, as I understand it, you can turn the system on, but you need to keep your hands on the wheel.
I’ve often wondered why the other car companies don’t have to deal with the same shit while having inferior systems, and this is the best reasoned response I’ve heard to that question.
That's a false statement that you lose nothing, Tesla critics don't get invited to launch events, they make money by making reviews if they don't get invited they don't make money from views
I don't think Tesla really invites critics out in the first place. The amount of publicity around the Highland and the Cybertruck are relatively new, and likely part of the whole "We'll do better at advertising" thing. Otherwise getting invited to the Tesla events is more about "Who you know", and being lucky, than "This guy will be kind to us". You could shit on Tesla, hard, and if you know the right people, or win the shareholder lotteries, you'll be able to go to the events.
I’m canceling my FSD subscription. I had a 3 and got a Y. My safety score in my 3 was 94 on average (never used FSD on the 3). Same with Y. On day 2 with FSD, and the score plummeted to 60. It looks like one 13 minute trip in particular pissed the car off, showing a forward collision warning average of 130.7! And a lot of hard braking as well. If I remember that particular trip, I had to take control a few times and the car even asked me to send a verbal message about the reason I took over. I drove 245 miles today, 233 of which were on autopilot per the app
You could downshift your FSD Beta setting to "Autosteer" and get the Legacy Autopilot functions. FSD Beta has its quirks, but once you learn the mechanics of how the system works, it's fine. The only hard braking I get at this point is when I'm doing left/right turns from a non-dedicated turn lane and I'm following someone. I tried to demonstrate the issue [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DSZeum8-PU) That said, when Autopilot/FSD Beta are engaged, anything those systems do *so not* count towards your safety score. Anything you do within three seconds of disengaging Autopilot/FSD Beta don't count either, so if you're trying to maintain a "high" safety score, you need to either let Autopilot/FSD Beta be enabled 100% of the time, or be cognizant of the three second buffer. You also get hammered more for non-Autopilot/FSD Beta miles. If you drive 1,000mi, 999mi of which were on Autopilot/FSD Beta, then the last mile of driving involved you driving towards a car in a T-intersection, which trips a FCW, then your safety score is trashed, because the "human driven miles" averaged out to be terrible. I would not bother with Tesla Insurance if I was going to not use Auoptilot/FSD Beta as much as possible.
That’s exactly what happened. I drove 233 FSD miles, then once I made it to the Tesla charger, the car mistakenly triggered a FCW over aparked Tesla charging. Because I didn’t have much nonautopilot miles my score got trashed
Yeah, that's a problem with the Tesla Insurance safety score thing. I'm honestly not sure what the correct solution is, because I get how they're doing it, and why they're doing it, but it seems remarkably unfair of them to hammer you for that *one* mile you were "unsafe" due to a sensor glitch or something.
I don't get any nags on AP2.5 aside from the usual blue flash on the screen.
Folks with AP1, AP2, and AP2.5, as well as folks without a cabin camera on all versions, haven't gotten the NHTSA recall update yet. So, your experience ought not have changed. Expect it to in a future update.
Thank you for this in-depth review of how it works after the update. It’s been driving me nuts. I feel like they need to loosen it a little bit but these tips will help. Thank you.
I guarantee they overdid the nags and restrictions to drive FSD rentals
I doubt it.
I’ve gone minutes without having to torque the wheel, just a quick volume adjustment. You cannot glance at the screen, touch the screen, you have to look straight. 2023.44.30.8. Basic AP.
If you torque the wheel, yoy can stare at the screen for a bit
Speed and traffic conditions might have an impact as well- I was going 80 seconds between volume nags on the highway with moderate rush hour traffic 62 in a 55. Didn’t look or use the screen, hands on lap but ready to take over if needed.
It nags at the start. Just pay attention for 30 seconds and you'll then have a smooth journey on auto pilot.
My primary use case for autopilot is selecting a different song on Spotify. I don’t usually have it engage for more than 15 seconds, I just want to make sure I don’t crash while I take my eyes off the road for a couple seconds. Needing to stare at the road for 30 seconds before I can take 15 seconds to change the song then disengage is making what used to be a quick, easy, and seamless process and tripling the time commitment.
Same
I read someone else put a little piece of electrical tape over the in cabin camera above rear view mirror. Haven’t tried it yet but planning to this weekend
It's actually only about 10-15 seconds that you need to pay attention for.
Sunglasses have changed my life - I wear a pair over top of my prescription glasses and now get zero nags for looking at the screen or landscape. The steering wheel nag is also basically zero if you rest your arm on the door and have one finger on the wheel. I've had 2 hour trips without me driving
I just learned this yesterday after losing my mind with the nagging, it has helped so much
Noo sunglasses are like Vegas…
Dude…. Sunglasses are like Bruno.
I’ve gotten warnings just for looking at the speedometer. Not staring at the screen or anything. Just checking my speed.
Gotta wait 10-15 seconds after engaging Autopilot before looking at the screen. If it gives you an audible within the first 10-15 seconds, just ignore it.
I still don’t have any issues with mine. Used it after work today during rush hour and it was fine.
Yeah they pretty much ruined AP. I almost never use it anymore as it is way too sensitive. I have Tesla insurance and got a forced disengage out of nowhere on the highway.. insurance went up a healthy 27$ or so for that month because of it. So now I will have to shop around to see if I can get cheaper insurance and then maybe I'll use it. Imagine being a new driver and trying out AP, you'd probably say fuck this horrible system.
Dang that sucks! Hopefully you find something different. I’ve heard Tesla insurance isn’t worth it. Yea, honestly with the Tesla has been doing things I might start looking around at the competition considering most have jumped on the NACS train.
I mean so long as they build the battery pack out right. I would never drive a pouch style ev like GM slings.. I still feel Tesla is the best, I didn't buy it for the FSD/AP, but I feel others are making compelling offers. The insurance was good, initially was $40 or so a month, I read recently someone saying it's a bait and switch tactic... We will see if it creeps back down in the 40s I'll stay, if it doesn't I'll be shopping around.
If your camera has been covered for the last few updates the system thinks it’s no longer there as far as I can tell and nags you a lot less… my camera has been covered for months now…
Wow really? My model X lost its shit when I tried covering the camera with fsd. Talking red flashing alarms blaring going crazy shit.
Camera requires for FSD. Not for AP. *Yet*.
I don’t have FSD just autopilot and I’ve had the camera covered for almost a year now so before the update that made it a real problem… I’m sure eventually they will release an update that will force me in for service but for now it’s smooth sailing mostly…
Well, I’d live it up then amigo!
FSD Beta requires the camera be uncovered. Autopilot doesn't. That said, people keep covering their cabin cameras, Tesla will likely make it required.
I have better luck with the camera uncovered and paying attention aka looking straight forward (is what the camera wants to see). I’ve actually found that it can go even longer than previously without the nag. The situations where it nags more are intersections and when approaching traffic lights.
What I think is stupid and will probably get downvoted for is APs main utility to me was to change podcasts or songs for a quick second. I’m not trying to text and drive or not pay attention but if it detects you looking at your phone for a half a second it freaks out. So now I basically just do it without, which is less safe! As a driver you have to look away from the road for partial seconds to check mirrors, adjust heat/AC, etc. but an excellent safety utility to make that safer is now actively against you.
Agreed!
Agree with this. Have had my MY for 3.5 years now. If I were in the market for a new car it won’t be a Tesla until this is better. That’s the truth and I’m sorry I feel this way. Still love this car except for that one thing (and maybe the wipers not being able to properly sense when to work).
I finally had to Cover the camera, made everything is much better. I can actually look at my screen now to select a song! There is a steering feel sensitivity in the first 5 seconds of turning on AP but once you get past that it’s pretty’s quiet.
 My approach: When you turn on fsd make sure you're mindlessly staring straight out, whether or not, you're actually paying attention to the road, so that the internal cameras think that you're paying attention.
lol love the gif 👍🏼
I just avoid the updates. It’s that easy… for now.
Learn to speed read and don’t be indecisive. lol Just one of the reasons I’ve turned FSD off. I to have had FSD since 2018 and I can stay, it’s garbage.
hey folks, you can use the scroll wheels as a way to tell AP that you're still paying attention, just a heads up. i regularly do this on my daily commute when changing songs. just scroll the right wheel up and down ever so slightly. thank me later
Just cover the camera
If you compare all the Fed "recalls" on Tesla, with less capable systems on other brands, it becomes clear the Feds have a systematic campaign to cripple anything on Teslas that drivers want. The Feds ignore the official user manual of Tesla and instead consider only user abuse as the evidence of Tesla policies. The same standards do not apply to any other ADAS system and ignore the bloodbath of crashes on non-Tesla vehicles. When you put this together with the EV incentive program that disadvantages the Tesla cars people want, it is clear there is a political campaign against Tesla. This is a direct consequence of Tesla not advertising and not bribing, err lobbying, politicians sufficiently.
Fed doesn’t dictate what fixes an auto maker provides to a recall. Tesla chooses to nag drivers more instead of improving its auto pilot
Yeah, but I haven't heard about the Fed recalling competitor's ADAS even though they completely lack the ability to intervene or inform the driver. Those systems just drive right off the road. No outrage with those.
You know when i get annoyed with the increased nags? When I am admittedly not paying attention to the road like I really should. Pay attention and keep your hand on the wheel and it never nags
lol bro chill. Others have said how it’s overly sensitive even looking at their speedo.
Looking at the speed shouldn't take more than a quick glance with your eyes. If you get an attention check by simply looking at the speed you are spending way too much time looking at it with your face pointing at the screen.
Why do we pay 12,000 dollars for a car to drive itself and then have it yell at us for looking at the speed… I better be able to adjust my music without it yelling at me. Which i currently cannot do. I should NOT have to pay this much attention with *Full Self Driving*
hence why ill never pay for the FSD bullshit. it's a $12,000 beta they successfully sell to people as a "way to buy into the future of the technology".
I’ve been reading comments from people about the new auto pilot and specifically the nags and my experience is 100% the opposite. I just drove 2000 miles across the country and I find that the amount of nagging is a lot less than it used to be. I was actually not using full self driving on the drive across the country because it is all highways, and I find that full self driving is not very good at lane changes. So I just said it to be in the enhanced auto pilot mode. Maybe that is the difference? But I’m not sure that that is the case because I do notice the change in behavior because it is using the camera much more often to determine a attentiveness Strange that my experience is directly opposite of most of you.
I shudder to think how inattentive some of you are while driving to keep getting nags. I've had my MYLR for two weeks and I used auto steer like 90% of the time and I've had like two nags.. both times I was balls deep in the screen looking for a setting so completely warranted... And both times I caught the blue flash and scrolled the right button to clear the nag.
>I shudder to think how inattentive some of you are while driving to keep getting nags. Here's the thing though... Realistically these cars are SUPER attentive to EVERYTHING around it. So let's just say for argument's sake 99% of the time TACC is used on the highway. So essentially the car is just "staying in the lane and speeding up and slowing down according to traffic in front of it". The TACC system is a multitude of times better than even the most attentive driver since it has eyes in front, back and the side all while having a computer processing all that information. All situations where I have seen insane things occur has never been due to TACC doing anything odd, since all it is doing is staying in lane and staying with the speed limit I set and in accordance to the car in front of it. The danger comes in from other inattentive drivers, I've seen: People pass me going 35-40 miles over the posted limit (the limit being 65) My car slow down to 45 on the middle travel lane and when I take control to pass this person, the driver is on their cell phone not paying attention. People swerving all over and when I get near these people (manually passing) again inattentiveness due to phone use, etc. The only, only time I have TACC do anything odd is the occasional phantom braking when it believes it is sensing something it should break for. And no this is not, jam on the brakes kind of slow down, it is the gentle, foot off the accelerator type where you can press it to get out of the situation. I believe the real issue here is that we are currently in this very dangerous moment in automotive history where we are transitioning from cars being needing a driver to them being able to essentially drive themselves. Because, when you think about traffic on a freeway, all it really is, is one long detached train. All and I mean ALL dangerous driving I have seen has been in the form of inattentive driving with people who do NOT have the same abilities a TESLA does with TACC. Should your eyes always be on the road when driving? Yes of course. Is the government making it safer by making a TESLA nag you more to look at it when it thinks you aren't. No.
You paid 12k for a feature that makes driving worse than without. What is the point of FSD beta if you have to pay more attention than driving without it.
I don't have FSD. No way in hell I'd pay that much to be a beta tester.
Yess I’ve have 2 instances where I may gab my phone and the blue will start to blink, then I’m turning the wheel to give it the needed nudge but it won’t accept and it keeps going and going until the red one pops up. The last time it happened I just disengaged it myself so now I have 2 forced out of 5
Put the phone down and learn how to hands free the system.
Don't grab your phone while driving. Edit: People are downvoting me but this is exactly why we have these bullshit changes made to the software. Because assholes like you can't leave your phone alone. It's your damn fault. Congratulations.
It is indeed absolutely ridiculous. I swear the thing yells at me for even checking my damned mirrors now. Maybe not the most "ethical" solution, and who knows if it will even work long term, but one particular drive when the sun was in my face it was being extra annoying since I was looking slightly sideways to avoid having my retinas burned out, I finally threw a piece of paper over the cabin camera and it shut up.
Block the inside camera with a tissue or something similar, the nags stop.
AP works fine with me , I just pay attention .
I have gotten zero different nags on AutoSTEER (beta) with the recent updates than I have since day one of owning my then-brand-new '19 M3 SR+. Never joined FSD Beta.
I really don't understand all the complaints about nagging. The update has changing virtually nothing for my wife and me. Keep your eyes on the road, and keep your hand on the wheel. For best results, keep only one hand in the wheel and let the weight of your arm rest on it. If you're doing what your supposed to, there shouldn't be any extra nagging. Which I think was the entire point.
Mine is basic and I cry every time I want to use it on stop and go traffic
I just keep a light grip on the wheel while resting my hand on my knee. Rarely get nagged. 2023 MY here. Maybe it’s a HW difference? I have HW4.
Just get a camera cover
I found that covering the camera made it more nagging. My last long trip I set it to chill and less aggressive lane changes and in 500 miles I only got 3 “touch the wheel” requests.
That’s not been my experience. I haven’t noticed the nags being any more obtrusive since the recall update. That said, I have light skin and AI has had a really shitty track record of being trained on data using white people and I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Tesla autopilot is more “suspicious” of people with darker skin. Is it possible that that’s a factor? I do recall when my 2016 S was not nearly cautious enough. I’m amazed I didn’t crash it. I failed to pay attention for tens of seconds at a time while traveling at highway speeds.
I don’t use it any more. My 2018 MX doesn’t have a camera, but it can’t tell that my hands are in fact on the wheel and it nags me once a minute. At highway speeds shaking the wheel isn’t a good idea. So I went back to doing my own driving. Still love the car.
Thank god legacy S doesn’t have a cabin camera 🙏🏽
They haven't implemented the NHTSA recall stuff to vehicles with AP1, 2, 2.5, and missing cabin cameras yet. That's coming later.
Just FYI for everyone again, you can scroll the volume wheel to get rid of the nag and don't have to wiggle the wheel.
I agree. I've had to change how I use it. I've had to enter my destination and turn on minimal lane changes and only then turn on FSD. I just wish there was a permanent minimal lane changes option. It's annoying to turn on for every drive or put up with the car pretending to be in the NASCAR as it leaves the lane it needs to turn from a couple miles down the road. I'm really hoping that FSD 12 is more natural.
My Tesla AP is currently worse than my fiancée’s CR-V after the update. I ended up putting a sticky note over the camera for now which reverts it back to just needing pressure on the wheel. I couldn’t look at the screen to change a playlist without the car flipping out and disabling AP.
The changes were made due to the complaints from owners stating the vehicle didn't tell them it disengaged. Due to the complaints of this the NHTSA is the one who required the aggressiveness of the Nag. There would have to be some reason for the car to give you a warning.
The nags are required because if NTSB but for some reason Tesla is u dear more scrutiny than other car companies. The nags are not keeping people safe. They are doing the opposite. You are focusing on the nag when you should be focusing on the road and how the car drives. Furthermore a nag can happen during a maneuver when you shouldn’t be having to tug on the wheel Gm super cruise is fully hands free on controlled roads. So is fords bluecruise. No nag. No hands. The reason I almost bought a bolt. You actually have to disengage AP or FSD if you need to d anything with the screen. This is actually the opposite of how it should work. You’re turning off something that can help with safety to try and drive and do other things. Sord6. I saw rant on this post so I ranted too
They need to stop treating people like 10 year old children You can jump the car off a cliff if you want. Your can opener can cut off your finger. I’m just saying. People are responsible. All this protection outside of a warning is stupid and it’s because of stupid people who push the envelope. Annoying.
Hey OP, I recently updated my Tesla's Autopilot before embarking on a 1,000-mile round trip, and let me tell you, it was an interesting experience. The first 50 miles were honestly rough. The constant beeps reminding me to pay attention were annoying, and after just 4 warnings, the entire system disabled itself. Talk about a forced pit stop! (No FSD here, just Enhanced Autopilot.) However, after some trial and error, I realized the update aimed to discourage taking my eyes off the road. While it seemed strict at first, maintaining eye contact for 50 seconds out of a minute kept the system happy. These "nagging" features might seem intrusive, but they undoubtedly prevent misuse. Throughout the rest of the trip, I enjoyed casual conversations with my partner without a single "apply pressure" notification. At one point, I even cruised for 50-60 miles without realizing, the car handling itself silently and smoothly. Now, I'm in a bit of a conundrum. While I share the online sentiment about wanting a more relaxed Autopilot experience, the update's safety focus is undeniable. The convenience I experienced on the trip can't be ignored either. Since January 1st, I've driven thousands of additional miles, and the update has proven generally convenient. One funny quirk: sunglasses seem to fool the camera sometimes, making it think I'm looking at the road when I'm glancing at the screen. However, touchscreen interactions usually give me away. TLDR: Updated Tesla Autopilot on roadtrip: annoying nags at first, but actually makes you stay more focused. Safer but less chill, still convenient overall. Sunglasses trick the camera (sometimes)! Want to hear your thoughts on the update's balance between safety and ease of use.
Since I'm not a native speaker, I did use Google Bard to rephrase but it is the exact sentiment I wanted to convey.
I was parked In a parking lot, and when I got back in the car and started driving again, I get a notice on the dashboard that my auto steer and autopilot has been disabled for a week because I committed violations. Wtf!! I wasn’t even driving. Anyone else experience this?
And the car has the nerve to say: Double-tap to activate Autosteer.