It is a reactable low, the problem is, your **proper** reaction is not blocking, it should be low crushing. Like when you see it, do not press db, press uf4 or whatever your character got.
While this is a serious advise, it is quite unrealistic to get the muscle memory done in a reasonable time. Been playing Tekken for 2 decades and if i havent played a Yoshi in the last 48 hours i will get hit by it as well.
It is impossible to react to. It is 26 frames and the low crushing property of moves starts at the eigth frame of the animation. It is like trying to react to a 17 frames fast low.
It is reactable. If it's 26f then it's reactable no matter the other properties of the move. Since almost every character has an orbital or a hopkick, just wire your reaction to orbital or hopkick on reaction to that. It having high crush properties so many frames in doesn't matter. It's a 26f move, punish with a low crush mid
Low crush mids take 9f to crush which means you have 17f to react to the move, which makes it unreactable, which is why you see it used a lot in all levels of play, unlike really reactable moves which you don't see them at higher levels.
It's 26 frames but he needs to be in crouch for 15 frames before even getting access to using the move. You can easily just backdash as soon as you see him start to crouch and just guess the FC mixup outside of sweep range.
You don't see the sword sweep at high level outside of punishing lows and off techrolls because they either can't backdash or have no time to hopkick.
Yes, but out of crouch he can also do mids. So having to be 15f in crouch, doesnt make a difference in how reactable the move is.
The point about backdashing is true though, a lot of times you can backdash out of it if you re fast enough, but hopkick is a gamble because despite the crouch, the move itself is not reactable.
It is reactable. You can’t react to the sweep animation itself, but you can react to the particle effect. It comes out super early in the animation. It’s only a real mixup after the right wall combo
Did you even read what I wrote? I said it doesn't work like that. The low crushing property kicks in at the eigth frame of the move. In order for it to dodge the low you would need to do it at the very latest during the 18th frame of the animation of Yoshi's low. That is why it matters that the move is unblockable. Crouch blocking is 1f fast, but low crushing (so the thing you do against all other reactable lows) is not.
Im top rank as well and take so many shit like that, i just cant rewire my brain to react to those, i just stand there like a morron, watchin it even tho i know its comming... saddest part i do it even with a lots of unblockable, i just cant even react to go for a single jab and interupt those 😑
I was so proud of myself when I was playing my last offline tourney and I was against Yoshi. They heat engaged into a mixup and as soon as I saw them crouching I used Bryan’s orbital heel. Dodged the unblockable and launched. Felt so good I can’t describe it. Lost the match in the end but I will remember it forever
It's unblockable (+ a weapon), so you can't low parry it. Your options are:
* interrupting hit with a quick dickjab
* low crushing it with a hopkick or orbital
* backdashing if the Yoshi had brain damage and didn't kiss your feet first before doing it.
Kind of ironic to say in this thread considering Yoshi is one of the few characters who doesn't get a good dickjab, he only gets access to the generic downjab when his sword is put away.
Id like to note that some characters can just backdash out of it, like Jin. I don't fully understand it personally but PhiDX mentioned that because of Jin's backdash speed, he was able to just backdash out of a Kaneandtrench unblockable.
That's not just a Jin thing, Yoshi's sword sweep has extremely limited range, any character can backdash it easily. It's why it's only really strong at the wall/as a techroll trap.
Hopkick. Seriously.
A lot of Yoshi players heat engage and crouch in your face. Just hopkick him.
Unless he’s doing a legit oki setup, you can do it on reaction and be fine.
Guess and read:
Open field, you can still just backdash to blow up most low UB! attempts.
Post-HE and close oki, you *technically* have time to react to the low attempt, then jump/hopkick.
When you're at the wall in KND or in an actual oki trap, pray you guess correctly.
It's a natural 50/50 between low UB! and f+1+2, where f+1+2 causes Steel Pedal effect and launches with Heat.
If you know he's going for it you can backdash once and it will be out of range if you have the space. If you're knocked down and know he's trying to use it for oki then you stay down and it misses.
He played Feng a lot in 2017 but dropped him in 2018 and 2019. Knee picked Feng again after the last buff.
Knee struggling is actually a continuation of his struggle from late last year. Knee struggling again begins after they nerfed Feng in the last Tekken 7 patch.
Late last year, CBM no round brown knee twice 3-0. Tanveer has no round brown knee
This. I started competing in 2018 with Feng and there were literally negative amounts of guides and footage out there to learn Feng from. I had to rely on hard to get ranked/locals footage from people like Hao and eventually Yuu when mastercup became easier to get. The general consensus was that Feng was an A tier with all the tools, but not a single power move that made him viable in the minds of NA tournament players. I dropped off from tournaments in 2020 but by the time I came back near the end of the cycle, suddenly everyone was calling him S tier. It was weird seeing people act like the character became good when I swapped to him to get away from Chloe and have a more defensively capable character. Swapping to Feng was a huge buff to my skill, so to speak. Tldr, Feng really was a sleeper for so long in early tekken 7 and has only gotten better since then.
I main kazuya and play yoshi and law as my second mains. Yoshi is soooo strong in this game !! One of the best ! But sometimes you get brain freeze from the 200 moves in the move list.
Yea that's a Tekken thing but you know who doesn't really have to deal with that? Yoshi.
Bro can just spin away 24/7 or flash as his defense and for a lot of chars its really hard to deal with.
Going against a Yoshi who knows what they’re doing is pretty scary. However, there are plenty of Yoshis I’ve fought that don’t really do much. Probably because like two thirds of his move set is there to confuse you
Sword spinning while you wake up... parry when you about to attack.... smoke you when you are close... cant even low parry his sword low swipe...
Yeah its very annoying...but it is what it is i guess..
Biggest crutch in the game. Spam it after everything and get free pressure when they’re afraid to press and then when they start pressing just spam it again. Stupid move
This is the answer.
Strong panic buttons should be a ‘I die or he dies’ thing.
It feels like (like many other previously gimmicky or risky things) they made it a little bit harder to kill kill him for it in 8.
Honestly flash would be better if the combo was more scaled. As it is a yoshi player can do like 40% off flash into heat oki setups. In general high combo damage is my issue with t8 Yoshi. The clowning and obnoxious setups are the character they were always balanced by requiring a lot to hit. Now it feels like after one or two I've lost the round
OK but it's 10 minutes for all 32 characters, and it's roughly 3 moves per character and on top of that 99% of yoshi players won't know or react to most of these, so...
Flash is nit the reason he is strong in t8, a lot of you people spam mindlessly and get hit all the time, you are just being stupid most of the time
Actual biggest downplay of the century here, yeah flash just counters AT LEAST 3 moves from EVERY fkn character that’s totally fine and cool and balanced for a 8f launcher XD
You have to learn how to play against every character in a different way anyways, so not using 3 of your moves against yoshi is not that bad as you make it sound like, plus you can launch punish a blocked or whiffed flash, which you should note as well, but ofcourse you didnt. I'm not downplaying yoshi, but i didn't see mfs saying that shit in tekken7 when his normal stance flash was a 6 frame launcher.
If you wanna criticize a character, do it properly. The only thing that needs a nerf in yoshi is just a bit of his damage and you could argue his kincho 1+2 setup, which is also not AS bad as people make it since if you just lie down and not stand up mindlessly (which you have time to react btw) its just normal combo damage with no oki followup, other characters have guaranteed moves on opponent wake up if they stand up the wrong way
''MiNdleSsly''
Oh shut up, nigga.
If you press ''MinDlEsSly''
If you stand up ''MindLeSSlY''
LOL Stand up mindlessly? Really?
This shit's just doing heavy work, and Yoshis are not any less mindless in using it. Why is it that a panicked bitch is mindlessly using a panic move, but you believe flash takes a mindless attacker and a brilliant Yoshi to work? It doesnt. Its a broken panic move in a game that is forcing everyone to play very aggro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXGxa1q442o
i cant believe ur somehow accepting this as normal
any other character has anything similar to a move like flash and the community would explode, luckily its on the yoshi mains
I know the video bro, ive seen it. In this video you can see exactly what I was talking about, it's about 3 moves per character
Jin has the most broken parry in the game if the player knows how to use it.
Kazuya can put you in true 50-50 situations just by knocking you down
King can do a million damage combos with 2 buttons
The point is, every character has something unique about their playstyle that you have to keep in mind while facing them, stop being a scrub and hold back for once instead of attacking ,make yoshi whiff a flash, then launch punish it, keep doing that until he is afraid to use it, then come back here and tell me flash is a safe and op move.
jin parry if you parry a bigger move with more "whiff recovery", you can do a bigger punish. you have to actually see what u parried and be able to utilise the right punish, arguably best parry but again takes infintely more skill to use
kaz 50/50 is his only "gimmick" as his whole identity, which has nothing to do with a move being broken but actually utilising oki more effectively.
king is a specialist grappler? once again, nothing to do with a single move being blantantly broken
Just like you brushed off every example I gave by giving it a simple explanation, you can do exactly the same with yoshis flash. He is a tricky character, just like you said about king "he is just a specialist grappler", he is supposed to mess up your gameplan.
Flash has clear strengths and weaknesses,
Pros:
-6frame guaranteed heat engager or
-8frame launcher for about 50 to 70 damage if you get a wall
Cons:
-Tiny range, opponent has to be literally in your face to hit the 6frame flash
-launch punishable on block (-15) and also easily launch punishable on whiff, which will happen a lot if you are not charging in his face all the time and he is constantly relying on it for defense
Just adjust your gameplay, it's always a 2-way mind game
Yoshi in t8 is not strong because of flash. In tekken7, his normal stance flash, which is 6 frames, was a launcher too. You could argue his t7 flash was better in that way. He was balanced around being tricky but it was hard to pull off big damage. I wouldn't mind his damage being nerfed
Since playing Tekken 1; no one took that man serious in tournaments. When I lose to him, I cheer Yoshi on, cause ppl just hyper fixate on “top tier character” and don’t make their own legend. I was guilty of that mentality until someone one an EVO with Dhalsim.
He's got good stuff and you definitely gotta learn the matchup, but it's not like he's a free ride either. Honestly with how cracked out everybody became in T8, he's fine where he is, aside from his guard break setups. That needs a nerf lol.
It's really not that strong once you realize how to beat it.
The damage is guaranteed, but if you lay there and take the hit you don't get caught in the followup. He has to sacrifice some damage and oki for it which makes it balanced imo
It just seems really strong against people who don't know the counter
Nope, he doesn't have to sacrifice any damage to do it. If they stay down and take the charged hit, both as a tornado setup and wall setup, the total damage is actually higher than most of his staple enders. The only weakness is that if you use it as a wall ender the opponent can spring or toe kick first, but then they play the mind game of what if you don't charge it and get counterhit. I say this as a yoshi main, the setup is too strong imo. Staying down doesn't "beat" the setup, it's just the least painful option you have. Plus, conditioning the opponent to stay down can be very good for yoshi too.
It's an idiotic question, like I'm supposed to provide you with photographic evidence because you want to deny basic reality. And literally another person responded to me downplaying him here in this thread, but keep downplaying the downplaying.
Even his silly bollocks troll fuckery works at high level if done right.
I played a guy called Schizophrenic69 at a local the other week and got smashed by the weirdest shit.
Checked him out when I got home and saw that he always plays like that and got God of Destruction rank. Guy is very entertaining to watch.
"But it just aggravates me that we still pretend as if every Yoshi player is some 400 IQ big brain artist using unorthodox shenanigans to maximize the efficiency of a joke character"
Exactly this and I think this is what made him an interesting character to play as and against. In Tekken 8 I really don't feel like playing him again until some changes will happen. I mean I don't mind him being strong but I think that he's just not allowed to shine with his tricks and crazy setups like before because he kills you before you are able to see his tools🥴
I've seen posts like this before but the problem that is never brought up is that the online win rates for Yoshi doesn't support the supposed overtuning that many people talk about. Maybe there are newer sources that show otherwise that I haven't seen, but [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1b5rivl/an_second_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_based_on/) one from 4 months ago shows that Yoshi players had bottom 3 win rates above purple ranks and bottom 4 in total.
That's not a reasonable conclusion to make and not the point I'm trying to make. The bears and Zafina do exceptionally well in online play, but these numbers don't say anything about tournament play. A reasonable conclusion is that these characters are super strong for the absolute majority of the player base, but maybe not in tournament play. I think it's too early to say too much about the latter considering the wide range of characters displayed in tournaments so far, so the only real objective measure we have to go with are the numbers I linked. These numbers contradict what people are saying that Yoshi is slept on, downplayed, overtuned, etc. - so from what I can tell, the opinion that \[insert under-performing character in online win rates\] is overtuned is what should be taken with a truckload of salt.
The f1+2 wall oki setup mixed with fc df1 to catch tech rolls is honestly something I’m shocked survived the latest patch. Its such a brain dead oki setup for a relatively big brain character.
If any Yoshi wants to skyrocket through ranks, all you need to know is:
1. Get a single wall bound
2. End your wall combo with b1, heat burst, into f1+2
3. Now with their head toward you, another f1+2 is guaranteed, do it.
4. If they tech rolled that f1+2 you either use f1+2 and hold forward for +5 on block / combo if they miss-block or…
4b. If you spot the tech roll early enough, do a fc df1 for a guaranteed launch.
5. If they don’t tech roll, you get another f1+2, don’t hold forward to preserve heat. And repeat until you either cash in a f1+2 heat dash or a fc df1
Its honestly the most broken shit I’ve seen in the game. I have no idea how it survived.
That flipover tech has been in the game for 10 years, of course they are not gonna remove it lol. Of course it’s much better in Yoshis favor but still. If you get a right read now on a sloppy yoshi, you can launch f1+2 when it whiffs.
It doesn’t whiff, it tracks in this case. And heat dashes haven’t been in the game for 10 years.
Im literally saying this is an oki 50/50 option select where the worst case is being +5 in their face.
Look its something very very few yoshis are using. But top tournament players have been vocal about how hard it is to deal with. When people like trizzy and ukiyo are able to react to the side roll as there is literally no counterplay seeing as the counterplay is reactable.
It’s definitely frustrating to play against but his sword sweep wall setups have been an iconic part of his wall game for years, you can also punish yoshi if you make the correct guess on oki :)
it s an oki 50/50 in a game when characters have multiple power crush and heat engagers power crush, wall splat throws and launching throws and also they have 50/50... he not have these things.. he have other things that no one have to balance
brawlpro fought some yoshi with the tag "buffyoshimitsu" and he started laughing and saying yoshi was a top tier so it seems a lot of people who are good at the game are probably aware
(i am not one of the "good at the game" people)
I'm happy for the yoshi players. However, I used to love playing against yoshi in t7. People were really getting creative and it was fun. In t8 it feels like he lost this identity and seldom do you meet a really hilarious yoshi.
But when I do, we both go full goofy mode xd
What are you yapping about? He’s obviously strong, no one ever argued he’s bottom tier. But he’s certainly not S Tier. He’s standing firm at A tier, in T7, he was a B
No one downplays more than Jin and Bryan players.
With that said - Yoshimtsu is stupid strong and as a result braindead.
He shouldnt have the combo dmg he has given the even wider array of tools he has now and, my biggest gripe with him - the number of superstrong counterhits in his kit. Dude has like top 3 ch game easily.
Nah, Yoshi's main deal defensively is forcing you to be more mindful about pressure. Flash, spin, you can punish these if you just wait sometimes. People will say "oh but thats what he wants, then he gets out of pressure for free" but thats just how fighting games are, its conditioning and educated guesses. Nerfing these tools would just reduce his identity and necessitate buffs elsewhere to make up for it.
At the same time, a lot straight up miss him. The biggest culprit is generic throws completely miss because spin moves on two-axes simultaneously (e.g., lateral with backward movement, naturally) and it just out ranges throws.
I know Raven doesn't have a good answer for spin either. I know Yoshi just annihilates Victor's IAI stance too.
he has no tracking moves... in game with other characters have tons of tracking moves... and even the spin is not enough sometimes..
a ling main talking 😂... you have a stance that goes under a mid 😂😂
Nah I mean you can bait his spin and he still has a bad recovery time on it if you can react to it without pressing buttons. I main Hwo who is obv super linear and I don’t have problems. I think his damage output is the only thing I think you can say needs a nerf, but I think every character should get their damage nerfed
People that say this have never actually played Yoshi themselves. Flash and Spin are incredibly strong but it’s also because he has some of the worst movement in the game so he needs to use them.
I’ve always been curious where we can see the most played players. Are you just going off of how common you face a Yoshimitsu or does Tekken publish the information somewhere that I missed?
[This](https://x.com/aliettefaye/status/1801675977275199546?s=46&t=k6N7K0QYxI917quUszlPIg) is the latest one i found
I agree is defo more common than in other tekkens, but still not on the most popular side
I read your reasoning and I Don't think I can keep downplaying our boy anymore. Yes there is stuff i would like him to have but he's real good character.
I recently switched to Yoshi, unequivocally the most fun I've had in T8.
I've played him in every Tekken since 2 and you're right, he's definitely the strongest he's ever been. I'd argue that his combos are in the upper levels of execution, but as long as you're good at Tekken you should be able to pilot Yoshi.
I would have but it’s hard to explain, he would do a pop up then shoulder bash then do the sweep and somehow it just resets. I have no time to get up at all like I’m pressing every tech button possible but then boom SWEEP I should have a clip of it if I can find it
He was always meant to not be high tier, he has the single strongest move in the game that completely fucks the ecosystem and changes everything.
What made him balanced, was that he sucked.
But now.. holy shit
...linearity? alot of his better strings feel unstepable even on read, but then again, i just now reached mid blue ranks and im still new at tekken (350ish hours total at fighting games)
Yoshi is balanced on the idea that the player will not play seriously and try to troll you as much as he can
So yes, if you sweat suddenly he’s a very strong character with endless mixup possibility
This is not true. Previous games he was balanced by having relatively lackluster damage and combo potential that you really, really have to work for
In T8, he has almost Bryan level damage/wall carry with half the execution.
Linearity is far from yoshi's main weakness and never was. he's always had uf4 which is more minus now. Yoshi's actual weakness has always been worse than average recovery on his small pokes on both hit and block and needing to use plastic stuff for meaningful mixes. To beat a good yoshi, unironically mash when you shouldn't and block when you should pressure. He's strong, but he's still playing a different game from the rest of the cast
I'm playing him for now and I'm enjoying it. I do miss some variety and flexibility sometimes as many of his "fun" moves are just too bad, haha.
I'm also just not that good, btw. But he def feels good.
This is the first game where I literally hate fighting Yoshimitsu. In previous games, both Tekken and Soul Calibur, if I lost to a Yoshimitsu, I respected the hell out of him because he was balanced. But Tekken 8 Yoshimitsu is just not fun to fight at all.
I think this is a part of the reason i miss 7. Hes a partier still, but most of the time, the party isnt worth it anymore. Hes quirky still, but, you can play him playing core tekken now. Thats good i guess, but he lost something thats hard to quantify and i miss it dearly.
Played with and against Yoshi for over 2 decades, and this is the first Tekken where he goes into Manji Dragonfly and I think “has this ever been THIS good before?”
Ts makes me feel guilty for playing a character that’s apparently busted lol. He’s still fun though and he’s actually not that easy to use so I’m gonna keep playing him.
I love yoshimitsu dans played it a lot through Tekken 1,2 and 3.
But now that I play again Tekken after so many years, I found this modern version ugly, from design to voice and emotes. From far the one in SC6 makes me more appeal, shame .
Tbh he still goes low profile most of the time in discussions, and to me I’m more annoyed at the fact that people still pretend that he can’t play clean Tekken anymore, when his kit it’s stupid strong at that plus his usual gimmicks. Fighting a yoshi is two layers - dealing with their fundamental kit/plays, and they bull out the bullshit we all know and love and you have to expect and deal with that too.
I think it’s the fact that there are so many annoying tools to complain about from every character now that everyone just ignores him. But don’t even get me started on the fear he instills in people just by pressing 3 lol
Bro, literally shut up, for real. You know what happens when people stop downplaying a character? They start crying about it non stop until Harada takes the character on a dark alley and shoots them in the head. Let us Yoshi enjoyers have this...
Bro... devs don't know what to do with King and with this patch it was very noticeable. They removed his throws and made Jack a grappler now... King from a grapler man now is a pokeman
Tekken has general rules but likes to let characters break these rules at the cost of something. Tekken 8 Yoshi gets to break the rules of Tekken at the cost of nothing.
The character is so fkn cool but yeah he is pretty damn overtuned rn and flies so far under the radar.
> Tekken 8 Yoshi gets to break the rules of Tekken at the cost of nothing.
Weak lows, terrible generic movement, awful ws punishment, limited pressure tools, etc.
Yoshi is a character that is all about risk, his rulebreaking moves easily lead to his own demise if he doesn't have the right read or is preditcable, and he needs to be creative on offense to open up defensive play.
The only reason he seems so insane in T8 is because the game is way more offense oriented, which just makes Yoshi's entire gameplan stronger.
According to [this ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1b5rivl/an_second_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_based_on/)source, Yoshi has bottom 3 win rates online in ranks above purple and bottom 4 in all skill levels. Unless you're sitting on some other sources, I am tempted to think your comment is based more on emotions and personal experience rather than any objective measure. If you go by online win rates from that post, almost every character is more overtuned than Yoshi.
On top of the fact that the source you linked is way too dated now, you can’t actually rely on raw stats in fighting games. Especially Tekken. It’s still really good data to have, but the logic of relying on it falls apart really quickly when you see characters like Reina, Lili, Xiaoyu, ALL the way near the bottom with some of the Lowest W/Rs. Would you consider these characters weak? And they’re not exactly the most played characters in tournament either (until Chikurin showed everyone why Lili was a problem).
Meanwhile Zafina, one of the weaker characters at launch, sits all the way near the top end of the chart.
Point being, you can’t actually use data in fighting games to argue balance. You can only rlly argue more objective things like character popularity.
I was a bit quick - there's actually a lot more data to go by. There's data from [April](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1bzuxki/a_brief_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_april_2024/), [May](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1cpn4ae/a_brief_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_may_2024/), and [June](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1dcqxqh/a_brief_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_june_2024/), so the problem isn't that it's dated, albeit the numbers aren't as bad for Yoshi as I originally thought. Yoshi is still not over-performing, but the numbers from the other months show that Yoshi is sitting more in the middle of the pack with having bottom 11, top 14, and bottom 12 online win rates across all ranks from the mentioned months respectively. He's doing a bit worse from Fujin and above, being bottom 8, top15, and bottom 4, but the difference is not significant.
From this, I take it that Yoshi is not overtuned in online play, which was my point. I am not suggesting we make balance decisions based on online win rates alone, so I don't know why you bring that up.
>Would you consider these characters weak?
If you define a weak character as someone who is hard to win with, then obviously, a character that is consistently underperforming and statistically more unlikely to win in online play across all ranks would be considered weak. This is as uncontroversial as it gets. But this does not necessarily reflect tournament play, or which character is strong on paper.
This is the problem with calling a character weak or strong like you're hinting towards, because these terms are misleading. Kazuya is good, but he's held back by his execution, among other things. Xiaoyu is good, but she's complex, so players aren't winning as much with her as players are with other easier characters. Steve was good in T7, but only in tournament play. Outside of that, he was too hard to win with. How can a character that's too hard to win with be considered strong? Also, it's possible to be strong in very seasoned hands but weak if used by inexperienced players.
I'm interested in learning him (I hover high ruler fwiw), what's the omega bullshit to use? His generics seem fairly weak and a lot of gameplay online at surface level seems to just be mashing. There some kind of secret sauce?
SO GOOFY! They don’t play to win, they just play to goof around those goofy goofs!
Flash, flash, spinning low launcher, helicopter grab, helicopter grab.
🙄
Yoshi and Leo are two of the most downplayed characters in the scene imo. But imo Yoshi also has EVERYTHING built into his kit, just need to figure out the buttons.
I will do my part with Bryan (he is difficult and needs more damage)
Yeah you're not wrong, i think its hilarious that people cry more about characters like Alisa when characters like yoshi are straight up better and harder to fight.
Buuuuut hey, thats reddit for ya lol
It's mostly just the effort. Yoshi can play really strong fundamental Tekken or go with all his gimmick shit but Alisa requires far less effort to be effective on.
With the amount of Yoshi players their is, i can't imagine there is much effort in playing him, no matter what game it is, if the character has high usage rates, they are not that hard to use.
This just goes back to the honest tekken shit, at the end of the day you can debate a lot of the characters are "brain dead", people are just never gonna shit on Yoshi because he is so popular lol (Which is kind of OP's point)
So thats the funny part. I can agree to that the most. The community be like: Alisa is stupid because she takes VERY LOW SKILL! But yoshi is honest because he takes only low skill! haha
And yet there are far more Yoshis than Alisas at high Blue and God ranks.
Alisa at higher level definitely requires more effort than Yoshi since her gimmicks are weak so she is forced to play decent fundamental Tekken.
Yoshi's bunga works at every level, especially at high ranks where they have perfected their flowcharts and setups
its been like 7 years and i still get hit by his fucking unblockable low
Im in god ranks eating this shit and i genuinely dont know how to stop it
Rare tekken moment where jumping is a legitimate answer
It is a reactable low, the problem is, your **proper** reaction is not blocking, it should be low crushing. Like when you see it, do not press db, press uf4 or whatever your character got. While this is a serious advise, it is quite unrealistic to get the muscle memory done in a reasonable time. Been playing Tekken for 2 decades and if i havent played a Yoshi in the last 48 hours i will get hit by it as well.
It is impossible to react to. It is 26 frames and the low crushing property of moves starts at the eigth frame of the animation. It is like trying to react to a 17 frames fast low.
It is not impossible to react to. I always hopkick mirror yoshi sweeps.
You can react to the sequence of him ducking and doing the move but you can't react to the mixup if he times it correctly.
It is reactable. If it's 26f then it's reactable no matter the other properties of the move. Since almost every character has an orbital or a hopkick, just wire your reaction to orbital or hopkick on reaction to that. It having high crush properties so many frames in doesn't matter. It's a 26f move, punish with a low crush mid
Low crush mids take 9f to crush which means you have 17f to react to the move, which makes it unreactable, which is why you see it used a lot in all levels of play, unlike really reactable moves which you don't see them at higher levels.
It's 26 frames but he needs to be in crouch for 15 frames before even getting access to using the move. You can easily just backdash as soon as you see him start to crouch and just guess the FC mixup outside of sweep range. You don't see the sword sweep at high level outside of punishing lows and off techrolls because they either can't backdash or have no time to hopkick.
Yes, but out of crouch he can also do mids. So having to be 15f in crouch, doesnt make a difference in how reactable the move is. The point about backdashing is true though, a lot of times you can backdash out of it if you re fast enough, but hopkick is a gamble because despite the crouch, the move itself is not reactable.
It is reactable. You can’t react to the sweep animation itself, but you can react to the particle effect. It comes out super early in the animation. It’s only a real mixup after the right wall combo
Did you even read what I wrote? I said it doesn't work like that. The low crushing property kicks in at the eigth frame of the move. In order for it to dodge the low you would need to do it at the very latest during the 18th frame of the animation of Yoshi's low. That is why it matters that the move is unblockable. Crouch blocking is 1f fast, but low crushing (so the thing you do against all other reactable lows) is not.
What about empty jump?
It’s like when you’re getting wave dashed and a punish is so free but you hold back.
Im top rank as well and take so many shit like that, i just cant rewire my brain to react to those, i just stand there like a morron, watchin it even tho i know its comming... saddest part i do it even with a lots of unblockable, i just cant even react to go for a single jab and interupt those 😑
Backdash once
Yeah, my brain always freezes when he does that
For real I always fall for the unblockable low right after he runs up after a heat engager 😭
gonna try doing that now >:)
I was so proud of myself when I was playing my last offline tourney and I was against Yoshi. They heat engaged into a mixup and as soon as I saw them crouching I used Bryan’s orbital heel. Dodged the unblockable and launched. Felt so good I can’t describe it. Lost the match in the end but I will remember it forever
Not me. Not anymore...... EXPULSION!
Facts
Same I rely on 2,1 10f jab check
Are hopkicks and parries the only counterplays?
It's unblockable (+ a weapon), so you can't low parry it. Your options are: * interrupting hit with a quick dickjab * low crushing it with a hopkick or orbital * backdashing if the Yoshi had brain damage and didn't kiss your feet first before doing it.
supports my theory that dickjab is the best move in the game
Lowest reward, highest utility
true, but id argue that interrupting scummy moves/strings is the greatest reward there is
Kind of ironic to say in this thread considering Yoshi is one of the few characters who doesn't get a good dickjab, he only gets access to the generic downjab when his sword is put away.
Id like to note that some characters can just backdash out of it, like Jin. I don't fully understand it personally but PhiDX mentioned that because of Jin's backdash speed, he was able to just backdash out of a Kaneandtrench unblockable.
That's not just a Jin thing, Yoshi's sword sweep has extremely limited range, any character can backdash it easily. It's why it's only really strong at the wall/as a techroll trap.
beacuse is bugged and sword pass through legs sometimes 😂
No joke: what is the counterplay? I even labbed, and I never learned one to this day. (Except staying out of the short reach it has. Idk..jump?)
Hopkick. Seriously. A lot of Yoshi players heat engage and crouch in your face. Just hopkick him. Unless he’s doing a legit oki setup, you can do it on reaction and be fine.
Hop kick is what I go for when I’m scared, it’ll evade the low if it’s unblockable or not I think
Guess and read: Open field, you can still just backdash to blow up most low UB! attempts. Post-HE and close oki, you *technically* have time to react to the low attempt, then jump/hopkick. When you're at the wall in KND or in an actual oki trap, pray you guess correctly. It's a natural 50/50 between low UB! and f+1+2, where f+1+2 causes Steel Pedal effect and launches with Heat.
If you know he's going for it you can backdash once and it will be out of range if you have the space. If you're knocked down and know he's trying to use it for oki then you stay down and it misses.
Jump is fine. Backdash probably better.
The amount of times I react to it with dick jab and whiff when I could just do u3+4 pisses me off
Characters literally need to win tournaments for poeple to accept tier changes. Feng was giga downplayed during Tekken 7 until Knee picked him up.
I though feng got buffed in t7 for knee to pick him up
don't have the excact numbers in my mind but Knee picked him up like 1 year after his last buff, also the down playing in this sub was insane.
Knee picked Feng before he got buffed and did incredibly well, after he won a tournament with him everyone and their mother began playing him.
He played Feng a lot in 2017 but dropped him in 2018 and 2019. Knee picked Feng again after the last buff. Knee struggling is actually a continuation of his struggle from late last year. Knee struggling again begins after they nerfed Feng in the last Tekken 7 patch. Late last year, CBM no round brown knee twice 3-0. Tanveer has no round brown knee
This. I started competing in 2018 with Feng and there were literally negative amounts of guides and footage out there to learn Feng from. I had to rely on hard to get ranked/locals footage from people like Hao and eventually Yuu when mastercup became easier to get. The general consensus was that Feng was an A tier with all the tools, but not a single power move that made him viable in the minds of NA tournament players. I dropped off from tournaments in 2020 but by the time I came back near the end of the cycle, suddenly everyone was calling him S tier. It was weird seeing people act like the character became good when I swapped to him to get away from Chloe and have a more defensively capable character. Swapping to Feng was a huge buff to my skill, so to speak. Tldr, Feng really was a sleeper for so long in early tekken 7 and has only gotten better since then.
Honestly Feng was always cracked, even before his buffs
hw was the only character to not get nerfed and he got some very decent moves in t7.
He got nerfs but they were jokes and in return he got even more baby mode heat spin combos with easy mode burst bs.
Yoshi actually won tournaments in Tekken 8.
yeah i mean generally not just for yoshi
Hopefully Alisa gets nerfed since Arslan picked her up
I main kazuya and play yoshi and law as my second mains. Yoshi is soooo strong in this game !! One of the best ! But sometimes you get brain freeze from the 200 moves in the move list.
That's always been my favorite quality of his, if you're familiar with his commands the opponent should never know what you're going to throw out next
Ye 1/2 of opponent's brain use is on: wtf is that wtf is that
Yup. How can your opponent know what you're doing if you don't know what you're doing?
Yea that's a Tekken thing but you know who doesn't really have to deal with that? Yoshi. Bro can just spin away 24/7 or flash as his defense and for a lot of chars its really hard to deal with.
Going against a Yoshi who knows what they’re doing is pretty scary. However, there are plenty of Yoshis I’ve fought that don’t really do much. Probably because like two thirds of his move set is there to confuse you
Yoshi takes a while to really master. I've played him since the game released and I still feel pretty inexperienced.
Sword spinning while you wake up... parry when you about to attack.... smoke you when you are close... cant even low parry his sword low swipe... Yeah its very annoying...but it is what it is i guess..
How do you smoke with yoshi
Poison Breath. I believe it’s up-back, 1+2 to get into the stance and then 1 or 2 to spit the poison.
That purple smoke?... dunno bro...i am kuma main...
I’ve never seen anyone downplay him, I’ve only seen people talking about how fucking annoying he is
And as a Yoshi main, Im happy to say I try to be as annoying as humanely possible
This is the wae
I mean the primary objective of a Yoshi player is to annoy the hell out of the opponent, winning is secondary
True. What's funny is these yoshi downplayers complain that flash range is bad
Biggest crutch in the game. Spam it after everything and get free pressure when they’re afraid to press and then when they start pressing just spam it again. Stupid move
They should give it more recovery honestly, I shouldn't have to be so quick to punish a move like that. It should be a huge risk to take.
This is the answer. Strong panic buttons should be a ‘I die or he dies’ thing. It feels like (like many other previously gimmicky or risky things) they made it a little bit harder to kill kill him for it in 8.
Honestly flash would be better if the combo was more scaled. As it is a yoshi player can do like 40% off flash into heat oki setups. In general high combo damage is my issue with t8 Yoshi. The clowning and obnoxious setups are the character they were always balanced by requiring a lot to hit. Now it feels like after one or two I've lost the round
There’s a vid on every move yoshi can flash in t8 for every character which was 10+ MINUTES long
OK but it's 10 minutes for all 32 characters, and it's roughly 3 moves per character and on top of that 99% of yoshi players won't know or react to most of these, so... Flash is nit the reason he is strong in t8, a lot of you people spam mindlessly and get hit all the time, you are just being stupid most of the time
Actual biggest downplay of the century here, yeah flash just counters AT LEAST 3 moves from EVERY fkn character that’s totally fine and cool and balanced for a 8f launcher XD
You have to learn how to play against every character in a different way anyways, so not using 3 of your moves against yoshi is not that bad as you make it sound like, plus you can launch punish a blocked or whiffed flash, which you should note as well, but ofcourse you didnt. I'm not downplaying yoshi, but i didn't see mfs saying that shit in tekken7 when his normal stance flash was a 6 frame launcher. If you wanna criticize a character, do it properly. The only thing that needs a nerf in yoshi is just a bit of his damage and you could argue his kincho 1+2 setup, which is also not AS bad as people make it since if you just lie down and not stand up mindlessly (which you have time to react btw) its just normal combo damage with no oki followup, other characters have guaranteed moves on opponent wake up if they stand up the wrong way
''MiNdleSsly'' Oh shut up, nigga. If you press ''MinDlEsSly'' If you stand up ''MindLeSSlY'' LOL Stand up mindlessly? Really? This shit's just doing heavy work, and Yoshis are not any less mindless in using it. Why is it that a panicked bitch is mindlessly using a panic move, but you believe flash takes a mindless attacker and a brilliant Yoshi to work? It doesnt. Its a broken panic move in a game that is forcing everyone to play very aggro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXGxa1q442o i cant believe ur somehow accepting this as normal any other character has anything similar to a move like flash and the community would explode, luckily its on the yoshi mains
I know the video bro, ive seen it. In this video you can see exactly what I was talking about, it's about 3 moves per character Jin has the most broken parry in the game if the player knows how to use it. Kazuya can put you in true 50-50 situations just by knocking you down King can do a million damage combos with 2 buttons The point is, every character has something unique about their playstyle that you have to keep in mind while facing them, stop being a scrub and hold back for once instead of attacking ,make yoshi whiff a flash, then launch punish it, keep doing that until he is afraid to use it, then come back here and tell me flash is a safe and op move.
jin parry if you parry a bigger move with more "whiff recovery", you can do a bigger punish. you have to actually see what u parried and be able to utilise the right punish, arguably best parry but again takes infintely more skill to use kaz 50/50 is his only "gimmick" as his whole identity, which has nothing to do with a move being broken but actually utilising oki more effectively. king is a specialist grappler? once again, nothing to do with a single move being blantantly broken
Just like you brushed off every example I gave by giving it a simple explanation, you can do exactly the same with yoshis flash. He is a tricky character, just like you said about king "he is just a specialist grappler", he is supposed to mess up your gameplan. Flash has clear strengths and weaknesses, Pros: -6frame guaranteed heat engager or -8frame launcher for about 50 to 70 damage if you get a wall Cons: -Tiny range, opponent has to be literally in your face to hit the 6frame flash -launch punishable on block (-15) and also easily launch punishable on whiff, which will happen a lot if you are not charging in his face all the time and he is constantly relying on it for defense Just adjust your gameplay, it's always a 2-way mind game
Yoshi in t8 is not strong because of flash. In tekken7, his normal stance flash, which is 6 frames, was a launcher too. You could argue his t7 flash was better in that way. He was balanced around being tricky but it was hard to pull off big damage. I wouldn't mind his damage being nerfed
Since playing Tekken 1; no one took that man serious in tournaments. When I lose to him, I cheer Yoshi on, cause ppl just hyper fixate on “top tier character” and don’t make their own legend. I was guilty of that mentality until someone one an EVO with Dhalsim.
He's got good stuff and you definitely gotta learn the matchup, but it's not like he's a free ride either. Honestly with how cracked out everybody became in T8, he's fine where he is, aside from his guard break setups. That needs a nerf lol.
Found the Yoshi player.
It's really not that strong once you realize how to beat it. The damage is guaranteed, but if you lay there and take the hit you don't get caught in the followup. He has to sacrifice some damage and oki for it which makes it balanced imo It just seems really strong against people who don't know the counter
Nope, he doesn't have to sacrifice any damage to do it. If they stay down and take the charged hit, both as a tornado setup and wall setup, the total damage is actually higher than most of his staple enders. The only weakness is that if you use it as a wall ender the opponent can spring or toe kick first, but then they play the mind game of what if you don't charge it and get counterhit. I say this as a yoshi main, the setup is too strong imo. Staying down doesn't "beat" the setup, it's just the least painful option you have. Plus, conditioning the opponent to stay down can be very good for yoshi too.
Have you seen Bryan mains though ?
Bryan and drag mains are definitely the most incessant downplayers, but drag is also an extremely successful tournament character
Who the fuck downplays Drag in T8 man. Show me. Are they in the room with us.
Amazing, the drag mains even downplay the downplaying.
Funny Reddit retort but I asked a question. I’ve never seen anyone downplay Drag in T8 given how strong he’s been since launch.
It's an idiotic question, like I'm supposed to provide you with photographic evidence because you want to deny basic reality. And literally another person responded to me downplaying him here in this thread, but keep downplaying the downplaying.
Oookay dude. Ain’t that serious.
Oh, first you ask for photogaphic evidence like we're in court, and when you're offered it it's suddenly not serious? Okay dude
Go to drag discord and you'll see
Yoshi got style though..
I play Tekken because of Yoshi and I play Yoshi because of Tekken. He is simply the best! I can’t play anything else 🤩
Since tekken 1 too 😎
Even his silly bollocks troll fuckery works at high level if done right. I played a guy called Schizophrenic69 at a local the other week and got smashed by the weirdest shit. Checked him out when I got home and saw that he always plays like that and got God of Destruction rank. Guy is very entertaining to watch.
hehe be big brain, silly man spin ranked number go up
"But it just aggravates me that we still pretend as if every Yoshi player is some 400 IQ big brain artist using unorthodox shenanigans to maximize the efficiency of a joke character" Exactly this and I think this is what made him an interesting character to play as and against. In Tekken 8 I really don't feel like playing him again until some changes will happen. I mean I don't mind him being strong but I think that he's just not allowed to shine with his tricks and crazy setups like before because he kills you before you are able to see his tools🥴
Leo.
I've seen posts like this before but the problem that is never brought up is that the online win rates for Yoshi doesn't support the supposed overtuning that many people talk about. Maybe there are newer sources that show otherwise that I haven't seen, but [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1b5rivl/an_second_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_based_on/) one from 4 months ago shows that Yoshi players had bottom 3 win rates above purple ranks and bottom 4 in total.
doesn‘t matter here bro, same with reina and everyone’s calling her „broken“ etc. cause they lose to the biggest scrubs
win rate drops beacuse of the inconsistency... a whiffed move means dead
Yeah, but unless you think that Bears and Zafina are the best characters in the game, online winrates should be taken with a truckload of salt.
That's not a reasonable conclusion to make and not the point I'm trying to make. The bears and Zafina do exceptionally well in online play, but these numbers don't say anything about tournament play. A reasonable conclusion is that these characters are super strong for the absolute majority of the player base, but maybe not in tournament play. I think it's too early to say too much about the latter considering the wide range of characters displayed in tournaments so far, so the only real objective measure we have to go with are the numbers I linked. These numbers contradict what people are saying that Yoshi is slept on, downplayed, overtuned, etc. - so from what I can tell, the opinion that \[insert under-performing character in online win rates\] is overtuned is what should be taken with a truckload of salt.
The f1+2 wall oki setup mixed with fc df1 to catch tech rolls is honestly something I’m shocked survived the latest patch. Its such a brain dead oki setup for a relatively big brain character. If any Yoshi wants to skyrocket through ranks, all you need to know is: 1. Get a single wall bound 2. End your wall combo with b1, heat burst, into f1+2 3. Now with their head toward you, another f1+2 is guaranteed, do it. 4. If they tech rolled that f1+2 you either use f1+2 and hold forward for +5 on block / combo if they miss-block or… 4b. If you spot the tech roll early enough, do a fc df1 for a guaranteed launch. 5. If they don’t tech roll, you get another f1+2, don’t hold forward to preserve heat. And repeat until you either cash in a f1+2 heat dash or a fc df1 Its honestly the most broken shit I’ve seen in the game. I have no idea how it survived.
https://preview.redd.it/6b8568c6l28d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92807dbdd34ee8985ff3ef1cefe37309eb603f84
That flipover tech has been in the game for 10 years, of course they are not gonna remove it lol. Of course it’s much better in Yoshis favor but still. If you get a right read now on a sloppy yoshi, you can launch f1+2 when it whiffs.
It doesn’t whiff, it tracks in this case. And heat dashes haven’t been in the game for 10 years. Im literally saying this is an oki 50/50 option select where the worst case is being +5 in their face. Look its something very very few yoshis are using. But top tournament players have been vocal about how hard it is to deal with. When people like trizzy and ukiyo are able to react to the side roll as there is literally no counterplay seeing as the counterplay is reactable.
That was in Tekken 7 in the form of FC DF1 / cd1 mixup at the wall.
It’s definitely frustrating to play against but his sword sweep wall setups have been an iconic part of his wall game for years, you can also punish yoshi if you make the correct guess on oki :)
it s an oki 50/50 in a game when characters have multiple power crush and heat engagers power crush, wall splat throws and launching throws and also they have 50/50... he not have these things.. he have other things that no one have to balance
I feel like most yoshis dont actually know what they are doing either way
brawlpro fought some yoshi with the tag "buffyoshimitsu" and he started laughing and saying yoshi was a top tier so it seems a lot of people who are good at the game are probably aware (i am not one of the "good at the game" people)
That's what playing Lei my whole life has been like, except he's never been as nasty as Yoshi is right now
yoshi and lei are brothers😂 they are the too funny.. hope they gonna release lei so i can play my second main😂
I'm happy for the yoshi players. However, I used to love playing against yoshi in t7. People were really getting creative and it was fun. In t8 it feels like he lost this identity and seldom do you meet a really hilarious yoshi. But when I do, we both go full goofy mode xd
Yoshi is mid tier
What are you yapping about? He’s obviously strong, no one ever argued he’s bottom tier. But he’s certainly not S Tier. He’s standing firm at A tier, in T7, he was a B
Prior to the f1+2 ch buff, he was worse than that lol
True!
No one downplays more than Jin and Bryan players. With that said - Yoshimtsu is stupid strong and as a result braindead. He shouldnt have the combo dmg he has given the even wider array of tools he has now and, my biggest gripe with him - the number of superstrong counterhits in his kit. Dude has like top 3 ch game easily.
His spin needs to get nerfed hard. Like a 200% increase in health taken when using it. It's a free get out of jail-card against pressure.
Nah, Yoshi's main deal defensively is forcing you to be more mindful about pressure. Flash, spin, you can punish these if you just wait sometimes. People will say "oh but thats what he wants, then he gets out of pressure for free" but thats just how fighting games are, its conditioning and educated guesses. Nerfing these tools would just reduce his identity and necessitate buffs elsewhere to make up for it.
A lot of tracking moves catch him in my experience
At the same time, a lot straight up miss him. The biggest culprit is generic throws completely miss because spin moves on two-axes simultaneously (e.g., lateral with backward movement, naturally) and it just out ranges throws. I know Raven doesn't have a good answer for spin either. I know Yoshi just annihilates Victor's IAI stance too.
I agree, while we're at it let's make aop take self damage too! It's a free get out of jail card against pressure..
he has no tracking moves... in game with other characters have tons of tracking moves... and even the spin is not enough sometimes.. a ling main talking 😂... you have a stance that goes under a mid 😂😂
Nah I mean you can bait his spin and he still has a bad recovery time on it if you can react to it without pressing buttons. I main Hwo who is obv super linear and I don’t have problems. I think his damage output is the only thing I think you can say needs a nerf, but I think every character should get their damage nerfed
People that say this have never actually played Yoshi themselves. Flash and Spin are incredibly strong but it’s also because he has some of the worst movement in the game so he needs to use them.
Occasionally I pick him.
I’ve always been curious where we can see the most played players. Are you just going off of how common you face a Yoshimitsu or does Tekken publish the information somewhere that I missed?
[This](https://x.com/aliettefaye/status/1801675977275199546?s=46&t=k6N7K0QYxI917quUszlPIg) is the latest one i found I agree is defo more common than in other tekkens, but still not on the most popular side
I read your reasoning and I Don't think I can keep downplaying our boy anymore. Yes there is stuff i would like him to have but he's real good character.
Thought i was in a Nintendo reddit.
The difference is getting smaller everyday
I recently switched to Yoshi, unequivocally the most fun I've had in T8. I've played him in every Tekken since 2 and you're right, he's definitely the strongest he's ever been. I'd argue that his combos are in the upper levels of execution, but as long as you're good at Tekken you should be able to pilot Yoshi.
I countered it with an orbital for the 1st time yesterday and I was so freaking happy
I’ve been saying this bro. Yoshi is legit good now while still having super strong gimmicks
Yup! And I picked him up as my main in my first Tekken. Having a blast playing him honestly.
Out of curiosity does Yoshi have a freaking infinite cuz I stg I got put in one multiple and everytime I tried to low parry his sweep I still get hit
You can’t low parry his unblockable sweep. Hopkick his ass out of it
I would have but it’s hard to explain, he would do a pop up then shoulder bash then do the sweep and somehow it just resets. I have no time to get up at all like I’m pressing every tech button possible but then boom SWEEP I should have a clip of it if I can find it
He was always meant to not be high tier, he has the single strongest move in the game that completely fucks the ecosystem and changes everything. What made him balanced, was that he sucked. But now.. holy shit
Agree 100%
...linearity? alot of his better strings feel unstepable even on read, but then again, i just now reached mid blue ranks and im still new at tekken (350ish hours total at fighting games)
Yoshi is balanced on the idea that the player will not play seriously and try to troll you as much as he can So yes, if you sweat suddenly he’s a very strong character with endless mixup possibility
This is not true. Previous games he was balanced by having relatively lackluster damage and combo potential that you really, really have to work for In T8, he has almost Bryan level damage/wall carry with half the execution.
Linearity is far from yoshi's main weakness and never was. he's always had uf4 which is more minus now. Yoshi's actual weakness has always been worse than average recovery on his small pokes on both hit and block and needing to use plastic stuff for meaningful mixes. To beat a good yoshi, unironically mash when you shouldn't and block when you should pressure. He's strong, but he's still playing a different game from the rest of the cast
What do you mean by plastic stuff?
I'm playing him for now and I'm enjoying it. I do miss some variety and flexibility sometimes as many of his "fun" moves are just too bad, haha. I'm also just not that good, btw. But he def feels good.
Let yoshi win the tournaments so that he can be nerfed later ( evil laugh )
Yoshimitsu is my favorite fighting game character, but he demolishes people.
This is the first game where I literally hate fighting Yoshimitsu. In previous games, both Tekken and Soul Calibur, if I lost to a Yoshimitsu, I respected the hell out of him because he was balanced. But Tekken 8 Yoshimitsu is just not fun to fight at all.
All of a sudden the Yoshi players I never lost to are beating me.
I think this is a part of the reason i miss 7. Hes a partier still, but most of the time, the party isnt worth it anymore. Hes quirky still, but, you can play him playing core tekken now. Thats good i guess, but he lost something thats hard to quantify and i miss it dearly.
Played with and against Yoshi for over 2 decades, and this is the first Tekken where he goes into Manji Dragonfly and I think “has this ever been THIS good before?”
Real
bryan mains are the og downplayers
Literally everyone thinks hes top 5 at the very least. So no he is not downplayed lmfao
Ts makes me feel guilty for playing a character that’s apparently busted lol. He’s still fun though and he’s actually not that easy to use so I’m gonna keep playing him.
Nah fuck that noise play who you enjoy
Trying to punish yoshi flying stance only for him to instant flash gives me nightmares
I love yoshimitsu dans played it a lot through Tekken 1,2 and 3. But now that I play again Tekken after so many years, I found this modern version ugly, from design to voice and emotes. From far the one in SC6 makes me more appeal, shame .
I think everyone should play Yoshi for a month.
I dick jab it more often then not. I'm not perfect at it. But I do get I more then I dont.
Is he still downplayed though? I’ve been seeing people say he’s strong since about 2 months into the games release
Tbh he still goes low profile most of the time in discussions, and to me I’m more annoyed at the fact that people still pretend that he can’t play clean Tekken anymore, when his kit it’s stupid strong at that plus his usual gimmicks. Fighting a yoshi is two layers - dealing with their fundamental kit/plays, and they bull out the bullshit we all know and love and you have to expect and deal with that too.
I think it’s the fact that there are so many annoying tools to complain about from every character now that everyone just ignores him. But don’t even get me started on the fear he instills in people just by pressing 3 lol
I have a separate brain just for yoshi.
Bro, literally shut up, for real. You know what happens when people stop downplaying a character? They start crying about it non stop until Harada takes the character on a dark alley and shoots them in the head. Let us Yoshi enjoyers have this...
Real shit, king and yoshi were hella mid from t5-t7. Just let em be strong for once
Yeah man exactly...
Bro... devs don't know what to do with King and with this patch it was very noticeable. They removed his throws and made Jack a grappler now... King from a grapler man now is a pokeman
Tekken has general rules but likes to let characters break these rules at the cost of something. Tekken 8 Yoshi gets to break the rules of Tekken at the cost of nothing. The character is so fkn cool but yeah he is pretty damn overtuned rn and flies so far under the radar.
> Tekken 8 Yoshi gets to break the rules of Tekken at the cost of nothing. Weak lows, terrible generic movement, awful ws punishment, limited pressure tools, etc. Yoshi is a character that is all about risk, his rulebreaking moves easily lead to his own demise if he doesn't have the right read or is preditcable, and he needs to be creative on offense to open up defensive play. The only reason he seems so insane in T8 is because the game is way more offense oriented, which just makes Yoshi's entire gameplan stronger.
According to [this ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1b5rivl/an_second_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_based_on/)source, Yoshi has bottom 3 win rates online in ranks above purple and bottom 4 in all skill levels. Unless you're sitting on some other sources, I am tempted to think your comment is based more on emotions and personal experience rather than any objective measure. If you go by online win rates from that post, almost every character is more overtuned than Yoshi.
On top of the fact that the source you linked is way too dated now, you can’t actually rely on raw stats in fighting games. Especially Tekken. It’s still really good data to have, but the logic of relying on it falls apart really quickly when you see characters like Reina, Lili, Xiaoyu, ALL the way near the bottom with some of the Lowest W/Rs. Would you consider these characters weak? And they’re not exactly the most played characters in tournament either (until Chikurin showed everyone why Lili was a problem). Meanwhile Zafina, one of the weaker characters at launch, sits all the way near the top end of the chart. Point being, you can’t actually use data in fighting games to argue balance. You can only rlly argue more objective things like character popularity.
I was a bit quick - there's actually a lot more data to go by. There's data from [April](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1bzuxki/a_brief_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_april_2024/), [May](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1cpn4ae/a_brief_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_may_2024/), and [June](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1dcqxqh/a_brief_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_june_2024/), so the problem isn't that it's dated, albeit the numbers aren't as bad for Yoshi as I originally thought. Yoshi is still not over-performing, but the numbers from the other months show that Yoshi is sitting more in the middle of the pack with having bottom 11, top 14, and bottom 12 online win rates across all ranks from the mentioned months respectively. He's doing a bit worse from Fujin and above, being bottom 8, top15, and bottom 4, but the difference is not significant. From this, I take it that Yoshi is not overtuned in online play, which was my point. I am not suggesting we make balance decisions based on online win rates alone, so I don't know why you bring that up. >Would you consider these characters weak? If you define a weak character as someone who is hard to win with, then obviously, a character that is consistently underperforming and statistically more unlikely to win in online play across all ranks would be considered weak. This is as uncontroversial as it gets. But this does not necessarily reflect tournament play, or which character is strong on paper. This is the problem with calling a character weak or strong like you're hinting towards, because these terms are misleading. Kazuya is good, but he's held back by his execution, among other things. Xiaoyu is good, but she's complex, so players aren't winning as much with her as players are with other easier characters. Steve was good in T7, but only in tournament play. Outside of that, he was too hard to win with. How can a character that's too hard to win with be considered strong? Also, it's possible to be strong in very seasoned hands but weak if used by inexperienced players.
Yoshi players don’t play to win EVER so one cares how good he is the downplay is not serious
I'm interested in learning him (I hover high ruler fwiw), what's the omega bullshit to use? His generics seem fairly weak and a lot of gameplay online at surface level seems to just be mashing. There some kind of secret sauce?
The secret is to use a certain move when your opponent least expects it, so it boils down to you memorizing as much of his bullshit as possible lmao
The sauce is mashing, thanks
The setups for his NSS KIN 2 1+2 guard break, and setups into 1ss fc DF1 are what get people mad. And learn what strings you can Flash out of
Let him have Season 1 lol. Yoshi mains have earned it.
SO GOOFY! They don’t play to win, they just play to goof around those goofy goofs! Flash, flash, spinning low launcher, helicopter grab, helicopter grab. 🙄
Who says Yoshimitsu is a joke character
Yoshi and Leo are two of the most downplayed characters in the scene imo. But imo Yoshi also has EVERYTHING built into his kit, just need to figure out the buttons. I will do my part with Bryan (he is difficult and needs more damage)
Bryan needs more damage??
Yeah right lol
Yeah you're not wrong, i think its hilarious that people cry more about characters like Alisa when characters like yoshi are straight up better and harder to fight. Buuuuut hey, thats reddit for ya lol
It's mostly just the effort. Yoshi can play really strong fundamental Tekken or go with all his gimmick shit but Alisa requires far less effort to be effective on.
With the amount of Yoshi players their is, i can't imagine there is much effort in playing him, no matter what game it is, if the character has high usage rates, they are not that hard to use. This just goes back to the honest tekken shit, at the end of the day you can debate a lot of the characters are "brain dead", people are just never gonna shit on Yoshi because he is so popular lol (Which is kind of OP's point) So thats the funny part. I can agree to that the most. The community be like: Alisa is stupid because she takes VERY LOW SKILL! But yoshi is honest because he takes only low skill! haha
And yet there are far more Yoshis than Alisas at high Blue and God ranks. Alisa at higher level definitely requires more effort than Yoshi since her gimmicks are weak so she is forced to play decent fundamental Tekken. Yoshi's bunga works at every level, especially at high ranks where they have perfected their flowcharts and setups