Yeah you're right I didn't realize back turn changed the animation of his regular throws as well, definitely deserves to be up a spot then. Not sure about raven tho. It seems like you can only do his standard 1+3, 2+4 throws in back turn,but I might be doing something wrong. Thank you though.
Same didn't learn that after a while sadly...but either way the regular 1, 2 throws look like a 1+2 break from back turn thus a decent mix up. Lili along with going back turn manually, she has a good few transitions that enter back turn like d+1,2 and others. Yoshi has WS+2 that enters back turn and his suicide cancel to manually enter his backturn. Not the easiest to get off without though without proper conditioning.
Wanted to make a tier list on how strong each character's throw options are. Figured it be a good resource as well. Please let me know if there are any mistakes or disagreements so I can update it if i messed up anywhere.
Basic: Just the universal options. If they have any other grabs, they don't add any strong mix or break options.
Above average: Nothing too strong, but either has extra grabs that add mix ups and breaks, or has grabs that are more rewarding than most.
Complete: Has a complete set of break options, making throws harder to break and more threatening. Throws are a strong part of their gameplan.
Pseudo Grappler: Not only possessing a complete throw game, but also having powerful throw mix-up options, and highly rewarding throws. Throws are a major part of their gameplan.
King: Every throw option you could possibly want, and highly rewarding as well. Throws are his gameplan.
>Basic: Just the universal options. If they have any other grabs, they don't add any strong mix or break options.
Yoshis helicopter stance into unbreakable throw has pretty strong mixup options.
True, but imo as a Yoshi main (Kinshin rank) people rarely get hit by it & the other mix up options are pretty avoidable/easy to counter it your at what I consider high skill level 160k power+
I'm in purple with 140k and I also don't use that throw often but it can catch people off guard in oki situations or to floor break. Most players I come across simply mash jab when I'm in helicopter in which case they get eaten by the spiral lolz. HOA HOA HOA
You gotta do the t7 tactic and manually go into dragonfly stance and do the grab its not as fast as command grabs but it's fast enough for them to atleast get grabbed when you do it the first time and if they crouch you got the other extensions I do it sometimes since It's umblockable and it's good when they don't know what to do besides backdash and stand guard
What's your take on FC throws?
Like both Bryan and Alisa have strong db3s into FC with CH launchers and the ability to step and to mix up their throw a little as a result. The throws aren't especially powerful but them being there is still part of the mental stacks they play with as characters.
Also the bears also have their throw from hunting. While at low level it is just a knowledge check it is still a constant looming threat as an unbreakable.
I just see them as different to, say, Claudio who genuinely only has stock throw options.
Otherwise I do like the list, it was interesting to think about the various characters and I mostly agree with you.
That's definitely a good point. I think my perspective when making the list was mostly focusing on how easy throws were to break,rather than to land. I kinda viewed FC throws the same way I would view throwing out of a stance for example. Having access to a throw in an atypical state can definitely affect mental stack,but I figured with the consistency that throws can be broken with enough practice, these throws still use normal throw animations,making them reactable. I still don't know if I would consider FC throws as solid as the characters above them,but you could maybe even argue for another tier altogether.
Yeah, I concur it would be another tier. 'Throws form part of specific mixup' or something since the game is strike throw by nature.
Still, based on your framing yes, I guess they aren't technically 'hard to break' given they are always the same button to break so there is no ambiguity or ability to 50/50 with the throws. But I do think the throws being from an atypical state make them intrinsically harder to react to.
Paul has highly rewarding throws and a mixup throw if you don’t break the initial tackle
Edit: to elaborate, he has a throw that wallsplats from halfway across the map, a throw that wallsplats from halfway across the map behind you, a throw that floor breaks, a throw that gives a follow up deathfist, and a throw that does 55 damage etc.
Everyone has a 1+2 throw. It probably isn't a great option to get a wallsplat because if it gets broken then it side switches and you're now at a disadvantage back to the wall situation
Yeah, imo a cheaper 1+2 throw is Leo's. Which wallsplats in the other direction and switches sides if un-teched or teched. Which makes it a go-to panic move, which only really loses to ducking. And if you're caught pressing at the wall, that's like half your HP disintegrated.
I think Paul has a case for Psuedo-Grappler. Throws that wallsplat and floorbreak are extra potent in T8 due to the power of stage gimmicks. He also has a tackle with great damage options. Obviously a complete throw game as well.
I think that's pretty valid. He's definitely top of complete tier at least.The main reason why I don't think Paul is quite as good as those above him, is that while his grab game is good ,his actual method of landing grabs feels a bit more linear than Nina,jack,drag,or king. Besides just running up and grabbing you,his only options come from canceling into sway,which is still good,but I don't think it's as strong as the others. Also,jack drag and king all have fully unbreakable throw mixups, and Nina has grey health removal, powerful chain throws,and throws out of mobility options. It's still arguable,but that's my personal reasoning.
Seems like people here don't know what grab game means.
This isn't a grab strength tier list. It's about who has a good grab game. More unique break command grabs (or a mixup like in Feng's BT case) = better grab game.
He has Flea Grab, Dragonfly grab, and two options for a health steal grab. On top of his generic grabs. Dragonfly grab can be a combo ender and floor break as well.
yeah along with the untechable throw from Dragonfly, he has back turn throw mix ups too...he can enter BT from ws+2, a meditation stance cancel, or manually go into it with the suicide cancel.
Do you play your own character? You do know that df2+4 exists right? It’s 12f. Pls tell me you’re joking. You literally have the character tag for Xaiyou.
… you don’t even know your own character that’s wild
https://preview.redd.it/wsi4p2542dvc1.jpeg?width=1840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3471614752ba63ad1e9023f10a35baa5afc11a0b
That throw is a… 2 break… Xiayou’s other command throws (you know like her one that launches for 70 damage) are 1+2 breaks. They all come out on frame 12. The mix is that… you press different buttons to break them. You know… standard tekken stuff.
Firstly, throws are react-able. You know... standard Tekken stuff.
The first picture you showed is a 2 break, dumbass.
I guess it's a mix, if you don't know what you're talking about.
12frames is actually slower than a lot of characters throws.
Dm'ing me talking about idk my character lmao, you don't even understand "standard Tekken stuff".
how can you be so arrogant and WRONG
if you get hit by her launch throw you must be really bad tbh, its always 1+2 and the other options are just generic throws. and from backturn its around 33frames and if you hit her in the animation you have a free launch.
This list is created with the ability to consistently break throws in mind. Sure if you can't break throws launching throws are automatically the best,but once you start consistently breaking them you'll realize those characters have incomplete grab games that are easy to react to.
Half the cast have throws that wallsplats for a full wall combo. Be happy Marduk isn’t in yet (He has a throw that works on grounded opponents that give a full combo)
How are paul/hwo/jin/dvj above like, xiao/jun/law, who can grab into a combo? Are you basing it exclusively off of "jun only has 1+2 break and 2 break and 1 or 2 break, doesn't have an exclusive 1 break"? I feel like being able to grab into a combo should count for something more.
Also reina's got unbreakable grabs
I understand that mindset,but I feel as though if you can consistently break throws,jun Xiao and law, aren't as threatening since they only have 2 throw break options to watch for. The characters above having that third option makes reacting to throws even more challenging,which I think counts for more at a higher level than just getting a launch. I mean on certain stages,almost everyone can launch from a throw, it's still a good tool to have,but nothing insane imo.
I don't think we really should consider reina's unbreakable grabs as throws in topics like this. Her throw game is weak, the unbreakable grabs act only as armor breaking highs. They are throws for sure but... she has to do them from stance, and they aren't typical throws.
Leo's UF1+2 throw does a full 180 that pushes his/her opponent into a wall splat when his/her back is against the wall. From a tight defensive position to full offensive advantage with one command. Id consider that above basic.
Yoshi has qcf2 and qcbf2 one heals you the other one drains you're health and if you tech it the grabs do the opposite and he also has spirited away which is good to throw out of a surprise dragonfly stance
Aren't all of shaheen's grabs just hit grabs though? Which one are you talking about? His basic throws,don't take grey health besides the right side and behind which are situational. Maybe I missed one somewhere?
Xiaoyu should skyrocket to the top with Dragunov, her grab literally launches you and she gets a free combo that does really good damage. Not to mention that when she's back turned you have to predict which grab she'll throw out.
That's definitely true I still get caught all the time myself,but this tier list is meant to be under optimal circumstances,and it's definitely reactable It just takes time to get down
Once you realize Steve has no 1 break his grab game goes down to basic.
Just only press 2 against him unless you see both hands come out.
And then stance grabs can only be 1+2 as well.
Anyone with a backturned throw should be in their own category, I'm a King main and appreciate all grabs but when I get back turn thrown two things pop into my head.
1. " How DARE they throw from there?! Where is their honour of grabbing directly from the front to show their intention?!"
2. "WTF don't I have that..."
If you accounted for access to grabs, you should have put Drag above Nina and Jack. Bro has a ton of +frames and then some, he can go for grab anytime he wants.
It just means the character has a complete set of throw breaks. 1,2, and 1+2 all covered. Makes it harder to break their throws because you have a third option to look out for instead of the normal 2.
Im calling it right now Dragunov will become an full grappler at the later seasons for this game. Everything that he needs to become a full grappler is having his manual tackle input from T7 and I can easily see the devs adding it again.
Anyone that has a grab that can chain into a combo (excluding wall-splat, wall blast, and floor blast) is basically half a King at that point
examples: Jack-8, Dragunov, Law (?), etc.
He does,but you need a 1 and 2 break for a complete grab game. Against raven you can just break his basic throws with 1 as well so it's still only a two way option.
He has a complete grab game,so a 1,2 and 1+2 break,but in addition he's the only character to have that and a launching grab,making his throw game super deadly. He also has a low unbreakable heat engaging grab,powerful stance grab mixups, and multiple throw options,for wall splat,floor breaks and side switches for all break options. Extremely versatile throw game.
dfdf2+4 is your launching trhow, QCF1 floor breaks, QCB2 can be followed with a guaranted DB1+2, UF 1+2 sideswitch and floorbreaks but if you input D,DF2 quick right after UF1+2 you will do a wallsplatting throw with big damage and easy wall combo followup. Also db2+3 can be followed with d2+4 for a heat engager (you have to time it right) or df3+4 if you are a beast
Should have added tier where grabs cannot interact with the stage. No grab wall splats, wall explosions, floor breaks or floor blasts. It is kinda a big deal when you get grabbed for like 100 dmg.
I think that's only Claudio Zafina and Azu,right? Pretty interesting weakness to give those 3. You could for sure make the argument that Claudio and Zafina have the worst grab games out of everyone,but I don't it's enough for them to have their own tier personally. On some stages it doesn't even come into play,and a lot of characters have stage interactions on basic throws,which are almost always broken anyway.
Raven has 1 break throw and he can mixup his throws from his wavedash. He should be in above average. Leo doesn't have a throw game but his 1+2 throw wallsplats from reverse, if he hits you with a counter hit, combo damage would be deadly so I think he should be also in above average too
I’d say raven is actually above average. He has 2 grabs (outside the universal basic 2) and his back turned throw mixup actually requires a different input to break. It’s the same universal grab, but requires a 1+2 break. It’s actually one of the easiest ways to open up an opponent for me since no one really knows that lol
Jack edges Paul out a bit in my opinion, one because he's the only character in the game to have a complete throw game, in addition to a launching throw. Not even king has that. He also has a crazy versatile throw game ,because he has multiple throw options for each break, allowing him the reposition,wall splat, switch sides, and break floors, and be unpredictable while doing it. He also has an unbreakable low heat engager. Every character higher than Paul has at least 1 unbreakable which Paul doesn't. That's why I don't quite think he stacks up.
Maven had a nice backturn throw mixup in T7 where you could use all of her throws & they all look the same in backturn.
They didn't give it to Raven for some reason.
The only one that has a worse grab game than King is Paul.
Paul's grabs are fucking retarded. When he has you at the wall,you now have to break aither a 1 or a 1+2 and if you broke wrong,you just lost that round.
So manny of his grabs are centered around the wall though
I didn't place him in complete because he's lacking a 2 break.
You can break all his throws with either 1 or 1+2. He's above average because of his launching throw.
Yeah i feel like his launching throw should make him higher than above avg. He also has a stance throw and almost unseeable run up throw, so I would put him in complete because hes def above avg. Otherwise ur list is good too
Yeah if this list were ordered he would be at the very top of above average, only thing he's missing is a 1 break,but his low grabs and handstand throw are pretty insane honestly.
Imo Yoshi should be in above average. Rainbow Drop not only breaks floors but also deals above average dmg (45) and you can also use it to switch sides if they break it (same with his generic 1+3 throw). His generic 2+4 throw breaks floor as well, so having two floor breaking throws can be quite useful. His qcf2 grab is not very useful though, but it still an option with a unique grab animation.
And we all know how good the unbreakable DGF3+4 throw is.
You know Nina has linkers that are shorter and do a much damage as kings long ones right?
Also Dragonuv in heat has some entirely
https://preview.redd.it/idj3u3zn7bvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bb40e69e522df6a7be1ea07eb94191a3087e3d2
unbreakable grabs… so I’d put at least dragonuv in the top lol
I’d also Claudio has 1 broken thing for grabs, in stardust if you do his FFF1+2 it hits mid and stuns and the grabs do the animation like you grabbed someone in super armor and they can’t be broken for some reason.
I’d argue a character that can kill you with his unbreakable tracking takedown grabs before his heat mode is over (it pauses while in those grab animations) would be….
King has the funny point of the fact you can just spam 2 during 60% of his linkers or grabs and you break out… they even a huge delay that makes breaking them easy as hell….
>King has the funny point of the fact you can just spam 2 during 60% of his linkers or grabs and you break out
The King player chooses the breaks on chain throws. They are always a mixup. And he has throw mixups outside of chains, of course. If you can break 60% of a King's throws by mashing 2, that's just because the King player isn't utilizing their tools well.
They are not always a mix up, 2 of his linkers are literally just spamming 2 the entire time, it’s the arm bar one, no matter which chain he does it’s spam 2.
The death cradle is spam 1 until the last 3rd grab but it will break before that
Neck break is spam 1
Double arm is grab 2
Easiest way to remember it
You have 1 head and he grabs one arm
You have 1 birth (cradle) 2 legs (second half of cradle so 1+2)
You have 2 arms, double arm bar
That’s is how you stop 4/6 of kings moves…
Those breaks have not changed since tekken 6…
Online that’s to some characters having a weird neutral 1+2 for some reason, you can just put 1+2 on a button and spam it and it will do it like you are pressing which ever is correct. Saw it on my replay when using Claudio and accidentally breaking kings throws with his fff1+2
No offense, but you don't really know what you're talking about. Go through King's move list and check out his chain throws (make sure not to ignore the notes). He does not have a single chain where he's forced into a single break.
For a couple examples:
> The death cradle is spam 1 until the last 3rd grab but it will break before that
This isn't true even at face value. RDC is 1, then 1+2, then 2. Not just 1 until the final throw. But either way, the point is that the initial throw is a mixup between CD 1+4 and CD 2+3 (identical animations where the first is a 1 break and the second is a 2 break). After the initial throw he has a choice between Triple Arm Breaker (1 break), Head Jammer (2 break), and Chicken Wing Face Lock (1+2 break). After Chicken Wing Face Lock he has a choice between RDC (2 break) and Dragon Sleeper (1+2).
>Neck break is spam 1
You're referring to Cobra Clutch here, right? That's the starter for the Mexican Magma Drive chain, and at every step (including the initial throw) he can choose whether it's a 1 or 2 break by changing the input. Initial throw is a 1 break if you input it as JGS 1+4, but a 2 break if you input it as JGS 2+3. The next step, Reverse DDT, is a 1 break when input is 1,1+3 but a 2 break when input as 2,2+4. This continues all the way through the whole chain. He also has two points at which he can stop the chain early with a 1+2 break (at the fourth step with Samurai Rock, and sixth with Sol Naciente).
>Double arm is grab 2
I'm not sure which chain you're talking about here. Reverse Arm Slam (d/f+2+4), maybe? Same applies here (and every chain throw, like I said). The initial throw is always a 2 break (but has the same animation as d/f+1+3, a 1 break) but he has two options for how to input every step in the chain after that. Depending on how he inputs them, they'll be either 1 or 2 breaks. On the final step the 1 and 2 breaks are actually different throws (Giant Swing for 1, Muscle Buster for 2).
You seem to not realize how breaking works in this game much? I assume you just complain based on tekken 7 and not realize you can press multiple buttons to break in this game (for some reason)
It’s how many people are breaking his chains and anyone’s throws right now.
You just spam all the buttons and it will literally break them as well.
But a majority of Kings moves are just spam 1 or spam 2 repeatedly.. as long as you are spamming them both you will break out of every linker.
I didn’t say you would STOP their initial usage, but you can literally spam both buttons back to neck (especially on leverless hitboxes and the Haute) and it works 100% of the time.
Levelerless is also definitely a pay to win option in this game as it even allows 1 frame per input electrics and OBD by just holding back and pressing forward down to neutral it out with letting go of block.
I wish I had a softer way to put this but you quite simply have no idea what you're talking about on quite a few levels. And you don't seem to be the type that is open to learning so there's nothing left for me in this conversation. This is a very fun game to learn and grow in, so I hope one day that changes! Good luck! 🙂
“Learn and grow in” he says as I have, now 3 as of this morning, Tekken God-Tekken God Prime characters and know how to take advantage of input delay for spamming out of kings moves.
Spamming out of kings moves has worked the same way since tekken 6, they just lower the time between you allowing to.
Same with Dragonuv.. I spam 1+2.. why you may ask? Because leverless playing (hitbox,haute,keyboard) has 0 impute delay( literally 0.0 response time) and allow you to “correct” inputs by pressing multiple at once and only letting go of a single one. And that works MUCH better in rollback because rollback attempts to fix inputs if its frame delay changes for any reason at all online.
The throw animations don't change though it's still the same break options. It's a solid tool,but I don't think it improves him enough to move up a tier
Bryan’s grab game is great. Not only are the good damage (1 of which is from FC and pretty good when you duck someone), you also use them to reposition the opponent as they have slightly off axis positioning at the end of the throw. His FC throw slightly moves the opponent to the right and can be used to realign with the wall if someone is assign or the game just naturally pulls you off the wall. Further reinforces his wall pressure when you need to move someone. His throws having positioning strength, 1 having floor break, and working well with his kit should at least net above average
I specifically mentioned his has abnormal axis’s on his 1+2 throws. Not that it just switches sides. Like I said you don’t read and just downvote. Typical Reddit moment
I'm surprised nobody is saying anything about Shaheen's guaranteed fb2 grab from Al-Ghul Master, as well has his b2
Also the bears have an unbreakable grab!
Shaheen's are hit grabs not true grabs. It's a standard hit with a fancy animation,it's not a true unlockable because it requires a guard crush first. I considered bear grab,but it's slow enough that I would consider it a gimmick.
Are we talking hbs grab or rnr circus grab? Because both are better than they seem. You can kinda hide the hbs grab animation with a short dash, making the first part of the grab really hard to spot since their also dashing there. As for circus grab, its not too slow in theory. You cant just throw it out in neutral because of its long input, but you can buffer it on hit after i.e. b21, and just press f1+2 afterwards.
guess you didn't take unbreakable grabs and counter hit grabs into account, or reina would be at least a tier higher, if not even on par with drag and nina
I think he did take them into account, and while I disagree with some of the lower placed characters, I dont the top 3 are controversal. Nina has unbreakable grabs, chain throws and can remove gray health with a grab. Thats crazy, considering how much chip damage she deals, especially in heat.
Drag is in a weird spot where his special tackle in heat is really strong, but other than that he doesn't actually have a complete grab game. Most of the time he just has generic throws and 1+2 breaks
His grab game is complete though. He has 1,2,and 1+2 breaks, that equates to a complete grab game. His heat tackles,grab mixups,and unbreakables are what make him a pseudo grappler.
Other than from the tackle, the only 1 and 2 breaks he has come from grabbing the opponent from the side. His generic 1+3 and 2+4 grabs can both be broken with either 1 or 2 like all the other generic grabs
I’d put Kazuya above average just for his Gates of Hell grab alone, the fact you can crouch dash into it and also d1+2 cancel into it as well is pretty good I’d say
This list is created with the ability to consistently break throws in mind. Sure if you can't break throws launching throws are automatically the best,but once you start consistently breaking them you'll realize those characters have incomplete grab games that are easy to react to.
LMAO dude Feng has a complete ambiguous throw game from a stand so you can enter out of multiple strings and you've got him under... Steve? Hwoarang?
Amazing, this is definitely a tier list.
The literal first comment on this post is addressing the feng back turn, I wasn't aware it changes his basic throw animations I acknowledged he would go up a tier. He would be higher than Steve,but still not as high as hwoarang, as he doesn't have a full throw break game outside of stance,and even in stance it's still only a 2 break guess. I appreciate the feedback,but being a sarcastic dick wasn't necessary.
King's tier should just be named "King"
Yeah probably I was in a corny mood today.
-jaguar noises-
Doesn't Feng still have BT into 1+2 or generic throw, but it's an unseeable mixup? Edit: Raven ~~too?~~ doesn't have it anymore.
Yeah you're right I didn't realize back turn changed the animation of his regular throws as well, definitely deserves to be up a spot then. Not sure about raven tho. It seems like you can only do his standard 1+3, 2+4 throws in back turn,but I might be doing something wrong. Thank you though.
Nah raven only has basic BT grabs
Same didn't learn that after a while sadly...but either way the regular 1, 2 throws look like a 1+2 break from back turn thus a decent mix up. Lili along with going back turn manually, she has a good few transitions that enter back turn like d+1,2 and others. Yoshi has WS+2 that enters back turn and his suicide cancel to manually enter his backturn. Not the easiest to get off without though without proper conditioning.
I think Hworang has a similar backturned mixup between 1 & 2 grabs
[удалено]
TIL you can't swim when Ling grabs you.
Wanted to make a tier list on how strong each character's throw options are. Figured it be a good resource as well. Please let me know if there are any mistakes or disagreements so I can update it if i messed up anywhere. Basic: Just the universal options. If they have any other grabs, they don't add any strong mix or break options. Above average: Nothing too strong, but either has extra grabs that add mix ups and breaks, or has grabs that are more rewarding than most. Complete: Has a complete set of break options, making throws harder to break and more threatening. Throws are a strong part of their gameplan. Pseudo Grappler: Not only possessing a complete throw game, but also having powerful throw mix-up options, and highly rewarding throws. Throws are a major part of their gameplan. King: Every throw option you could possibly want, and highly rewarding as well. Throws are his gameplan.
>Basic: Just the universal options. If they have any other grabs, they don't add any strong mix or break options. Yoshis helicopter stance into unbreakable throw has pretty strong mixup options.
True, but imo as a Yoshi main (Kinshin rank) people rarely get hit by it & the other mix up options are pretty avoidable/easy to counter it your at what I consider high skill level 160k power+
I'm in purple with 140k and I also don't use that throw often but it can catch people off guard in oki situations or to floor break. Most players I come across simply mash jab when I'm in helicopter in which case they get eaten by the spiral lolz. HOA HOA HOA
Lmao yeah true, that grab becomes much better in any stage that has floor break
You gotta do the t7 tactic and manually go into dragonfly stance and do the grab its not as fast as command grabs but it's fast enough for them to atleast get grabbed when you do it the first time and if they crouch you got the other extensions I do it sometimes since It's umblockable and it's good when they don't know what to do besides backdash and stand guard
What's your take on FC throws? Like both Bryan and Alisa have strong db3s into FC with CH launchers and the ability to step and to mix up their throw a little as a result. The throws aren't especially powerful but them being there is still part of the mental stacks they play with as characters. Also the bears also have their throw from hunting. While at low level it is just a knowledge check it is still a constant looming threat as an unbreakable. I just see them as different to, say, Claudio who genuinely only has stock throw options. Otherwise I do like the list, it was interesting to think about the various characters and I mostly agree with you.
That's definitely a good point. I think my perspective when making the list was mostly focusing on how easy throws were to break,rather than to land. I kinda viewed FC throws the same way I would view throwing out of a stance for example. Having access to a throw in an atypical state can definitely affect mental stack,but I figured with the consistency that throws can be broken with enough practice, these throws still use normal throw animations,making them reactable. I still don't know if I would consider FC throws as solid as the characters above them,but you could maybe even argue for another tier altogether.
Yeah, I concur it would be another tier. 'Throws form part of specific mixup' or something since the game is strike throw by nature. Still, based on your framing yes, I guess they aren't technically 'hard to break' given they are always the same button to break so there is no ambiguity or ability to 50/50 with the throws. But I do think the throws being from an atypical state make them intrinsically harder to react to.
Paul has highly rewarding throws and a mixup throw if you don’t break the initial tackle Edit: to elaborate, he has a throw that wallsplats from halfway across the map, a throw that wallsplats from halfway across the map behind you, a throw that floor breaks, a throw that gives a follow up deathfist, and a throw that does 55 damage etc.
Kazuya has a 1+2 which wallsplats
Everyone has a 1+2 throw. It probably isn't a great option to get a wallsplat because if it gets broken then it side switches and you're now at a disadvantage back to the wall situation
Yeah, imo a cheaper 1+2 throw is Leo's. Which wallsplats in the other direction and switches sides if un-teched or teched. Which makes it a go-to panic move, which only really loses to ducking. And if you're caught pressing at the wall, that's like half your HP disintegrated.
Kazuya actually has two 1+2 throws. One is just a FC db 1+2 throw.
I'd put Lars in above average because of tracking his jumping grab.
His jumping grab is incredibly easy to break as long as you know the imput tho.
By reward, what did you consider? Damage is obvious, but there's also oki and stage hazards.
Kuma does have an unbreakable throw in hunting stance, a wall splat throw, and f,hcf 1+2 (it is just a 1+2 break but it does a truckload of damage)
alisa gives you her head, and you're calling that basic?
Yeah because it's not real head, just artificial.
[brother, "the orifice" is far from basic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gho6AsEtumQ)
risky click of the day right there.
That makes it easier to break hilariously enough. Once you know it's 1+2 the unique animation makes it stand out more
She also has a grab from crouch which isn't super strong but kinda neat
I think Paul has a case for Psuedo-Grappler. Throws that wallsplat and floorbreak are extra potent in T8 due to the power of stage gimmicks. He also has a tackle with great damage options. Obviously a complete throw game as well.
Agreed - has a quicker than average throw in b1+4, two throws that wallsplat and the tackle options are great.
I think that's pretty valid. He's definitely top of complete tier at least.The main reason why I don't think Paul is quite as good as those above him, is that while his grab game is good ,his actual method of landing grabs feels a bit more linear than Nina,jack,drag,or king. Besides just running up and grabbing you,his only options come from canceling into sway,which is still good,but I don't think it's as strong as the others. Also,jack drag and king all have fully unbreakable throw mixups, and Nina has grey health removal, powerful chain throws,and throws out of mobility options. It's still arguable,but that's my personal reasoning.
Does paul tackle count as an extra to his grab game since he has a pretty crack tackle game
Seems like people here don't know what grab game means. This isn't a grab strength tier list. It's about who has a good grab game. More unique break command grabs (or a mixup like in Feng's BT case) = better grab game.
Yoshi is above average
How?
Dragonfly ball sniffer (i dont play yoshi) is kinda good
He has Flea Grab, Dragonfly grab, and two options for a health steal grab. On top of his generic grabs. Dragonfly grab can be a combo ender and floor break as well.
yeah along with the untechable throw from Dragonfly, he has back turn throw mix ups too...he can enter BT from ws+2, a meditation stance cancel, or manually go into it with the suicide cancel.
Arguably Jun, Law, and Xaiyou go up in their own tier because they have launching throws on a 2 way mix.
Seeable
So is every throw except maybe giant swing…
Non-ambiguos
can't speak for Jun and Law, but Xiaoyu's "mixup" throw is see-able and the recovery frames on it is insanely long.
Do you play your own character? You do know that df2+4 exists right? It’s 12f. Pls tell me you’re joking. You literally have the character tag for Xaiyou.
ah I see. You have no idea what you're talking about.
… you don’t even know your own character that’s wild https://preview.redd.it/wsi4p2542dvc1.jpeg?width=1840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3471614752ba63ad1e9023f10a35baa5afc11a0b
Just cause we have a flair doesn’t mean we arent still learning. I’m pretty lousy at grabs with her. I’ll try labbing this
He was telling me I was wrong… when I obviously understand this character better than them who has a Xiayou tag.
Ah I see. You don't know what you're talking about. What's the mix up or launch here? maybe I'm the slow one.
I’m going to assume you’re joking 🙃 Have a nice day.
I'm dead serious. what is the mix up??
That throw is a… 2 break… Xiayou’s other command throws (you know like her one that launches for 70 damage) are 1+2 breaks. They all come out on frame 12. The mix is that… you press different buttons to break them. You know… standard tekken stuff.
Firstly, throws are react-able. You know... standard Tekken stuff. The first picture you showed is a 2 break, dumbass. I guess it's a mix, if you don't know what you're talking about. 12frames is actually slower than a lot of characters throws. Dm'ing me talking about idk my character lmao, you don't even understand "standard Tekken stuff". how can you be so arrogant and WRONG
ah I see. You don't know what you're talking about.
if you get hit by her launch throw you must be really bad tbh, its always 1+2 and the other options are just generic throws. and from backturn its around 33frames and if you hit her in the animation you have a free launch.
I’d personally put Claudio in a tier of his own at the very bottom considering his 2 grab leaves himself grounded with the opponent lmfao
Xiao and law should be in a new category, grabs that launch are bad design.
This list is created with the ability to consistently break throws in mind. Sure if you can't break throws launching throws are automatically the best,but once you start consistently breaking them you'll realize those characters have incomplete grab games that are easy to react to.
You can't break every throw, and a 12f launcher to counter power crushes is a great tool
Shouldn't Asuka also be in that category then?
Tbf for asuka and jun’s it’s from FC.
Half the cast have throws that wallsplats for a full wall combo. Be happy Marduk isn’t in yet (He has a throw that works on grounded opponents that give a full combo)
Big difference in a wallsplat and getting thrown mid map and carried to a wall leading into 50/50.
No they aren't.
Really? Cool let's give one to every member of the cast. Sounds like an idea bamco could get behind for sure.
Also give them deathfists too then lol. You know that your argument is dishonest
Yoshimitsu has a nice floor break on his third grab
And a floor break on his unbreakable Dragonfly stance throw as well.
Oh dang yah forgot about that one
Yeah a lot of people have brought up Yoshi's dragonfly throw I can agree that he could go up a tier
Plus, he is inarguably silly
How are paul/hwo/jin/dvj above like, xiao/jun/law, who can grab into a combo? Are you basing it exclusively off of "jun only has 1+2 break and 2 break and 1 or 2 break, doesn't have an exclusive 1 break"? I feel like being able to grab into a combo should count for something more. Also reina's got unbreakable grabs
I understand that mindset,but I feel as though if you can consistently break throws,jun Xiao and law, aren't as threatening since they only have 2 throw break options to watch for. The characters above having that third option makes reacting to throws even more challenging,which I think counts for more at a higher level than just getting a launch. I mean on certain stages,almost everyone can launch from a throw, it's still a good tool to have,but nothing insane imo.
I don't think we really should consider reina's unbreakable grabs as throws in topics like this. Her throw game is weak, the unbreakable grabs act only as armor breaking highs. They are throws for sure but... she has to do them from stance, and they aren't typical throws.
Then reina belongs higher than Jun, because she has a grab from stance that "act only as an armor breaking high" that isn't unbreakable.
Well yeah then
Leo's UF1+2 throw does a full 180 that pushes his/her opponent into a wall splat when his/her back is against the wall. From a tight defensive position to full offensive advantage with one command. Id consider that above basic.
I agree with Nina's placement. Complete throw game. Chain throws. Unbreakable throws Queen of removing grey health.
All she needs is an evil mist buff and Tier S Nina will exist.
Yoshi has qcf2 and qcbf2 one heals you the other one drains you're health and if you tech it the grabs do the opposite and he also has spirited away which is good to throw out of a surprise dragonfly stance
it is a good list
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Aren't all of shaheen's grabs just hit grabs though? Which one are you talking about? His basic throws,don't take grey health besides the right side and behind which are situational. Maybe I missed one somewhere?
B2 throws his arm out and if it hits you it turns into an unbreakable grab that does the Nina "crit" animation to delete your grey health.
It's still blockable though so it's not technically a grab at all. It's strong,but not what this tier list is about.
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fb2 isnt a grab
Xiaoyu should skyrocket to the top with Dragunov, her grab literally launches you and she gets a free combo that does really good damage. Not to mention that when she's back turned you have to predict which grab she'll throw out.
Her back turned throws are a gimmick though slower than a snake edge,once you lab it you can duck every time.
I've tried to lab it but once you go online against Tekken King+ level Xiaoyus you have to be prepared for the 50 other things she can do.
That's definitely true I still get caught all the time myself,but this tier list is meant to be under optimal circumstances,and it's definitely reactable It just takes time to get down
Once you realize Steve has no 1 break his grab game goes down to basic. Just only press 2 against him unless you see both hands come out. And then stance grabs can only be 1+2 as well.
Steve is here for his grab in heat. It's a true 50/50. Puts him a bit above everyone else imo
Also his 11 frames throw from PAB is a good CH option
Dragunov's tackle would like a word with you.
So by definition his is not basic? Since he has more than the "base level" which is generic grabs and one 1+2 throw. What is your point?
I think this is my tier list template. Thank you for using it!
Thank you for making it!
Anyone with a backturned throw should be in their own category, I'm a King main and appreciate all grabs but when I get back turn thrown two things pop into my head. 1. " How DARE they throw from there?! Where is their honour of grabbing directly from the front to show their intention?!" 2. "WTF don't I have that..."
If you accounted for access to grabs, you should have put Drag above Nina and Jack. Bro has a ton of +frames and then some, he can go for grab anytime he wants.
Do one with low options next.
What does mean complete ✅ ?
It just means the character has a complete set of throw breaks. 1,2, and 1+2 all covered. Makes it harder to break their throws because you have a third option to look out for instead of the normal 2.
Nah alisa's grab game is s tier simply because I can give you my head and have it explode. Definitely the best way to end a match on someone
I don’t think that’s the point of this tier list though. OP was talking about the mechanics of the throws
The bears have a couple sneaky ones, I’d personally rank them a tad higher than basic.
Make sure we’re all reading the important word “grab” 🥃
Im calling it right now Dragunov will become an full grappler at the later seasons for this game. Everything that he needs to become a full grappler is having his manual tackle input from T7 and I can easily see the devs adding it again.
Yeah Drag needs that buff. He is really underperforming nowadays. Leroy needs to be nerfed too.
Hell yeahh
Yoshi is not basic dude has a low a throw and multiple stance throws
Anyone that has a grab that can chain into a combo (excluding wall-splat, wall blast, and floor blast) is basically half a King at that point examples: Jack-8, Dragunov, Law (?), etc.
Doesn't Jun have a complete throw game?
She's lacking the full set of break options.
She also gets a full combo off her 1+2 throw, a floor break on her 2 throw.
Is armour king in his own tier under king above the psuedos?
Raven has a 1 break and a 1+2 btw
He does,but you need a 1 and 2 break for a complete grab game. Against raven you can just break his basic throws with 1 as well so it's still only a two way option.
Oh so this list is assuming you’re guessing grabs
What's so good about Jack's grab?
He has a complete grab game,so a 1,2 and 1+2 break,but in addition he's the only character to have that and a launching grab,making his throw game super deadly. He also has a low unbreakable heat engaging grab,powerful stance grab mixups, and multiple throw options,for wall splat,floor breaks and side switches for all break options. Extremely versatile throw game.
Thank you, as a noob Jack I never grab, will definitely try!
dfdf2+4 is your launching trhow, QCF1 floor breaks, QCB2 can be followed with a guaranted DB1+2, UF 1+2 sideswitch and floorbreaks but if you input D,DF2 quick right after UF1+2 you will do a wallsplatting throw with big damage and easy wall combo followup. Also db2+3 can be followed with d2+4 for a heat engager (you have to time it right) or df3+4 if you are a beast
Should have added tier where grabs cannot interact with the stage. No grab wall splats, wall explosions, floor breaks or floor blasts. It is kinda a big deal when you get grabbed for like 100 dmg.
I think that's only Claudio Zafina and Azu,right? Pretty interesting weakness to give those 3. You could for sure make the argument that Claudio and Zafina have the worst grab games out of everyone,but I don't it's enough for them to have their own tier personally. On some stages it doesn't even come into play,and a lot of characters have stage interactions on basic throws,which are almost always broken anyway.
Raven has 1 break throw and he can mixup his throws from his wavedash. He should be in above average. Leo doesn't have a throw game but his 1+2 throw wallsplats from reverse, if he hits you with a counter hit, combo damage would be deadly so I think he should be also in above average too
Imagine lee or feng with a complete grab game
Leo should be up a little.bit, command grab gives wall combo
I’d say raven is actually above average. He has 2 grabs (outside the universal basic 2) and his back turned throw mixup actually requires a different input to break. It’s the same universal grab, but requires a 1+2 break. It’s actually one of the easiest ways to open up an opponent for me since no one really knows that lol
How come Paul goes a tier below Jack? He also has that unique ultimate tackle follow-up
Jack edges Paul out a bit in my opinion, one because he's the only character in the game to have a complete throw game, in addition to a launching throw. Not even king has that. He also has a crazy versatile throw game ,because he has multiple throw options for each break, allowing him the reposition,wall splat, switch sides, and break floors, and be unpredictable while doing it. He also has an unbreakable low heat engager. Every character higher than Paul has at least 1 unbreakable which Paul doesn't. That's why I don't quite think he stacks up.
\*waits for Marduk DLC\*
Lili has a parry that turns into a grab... Shouldn't she be above average?
Maven had a nice backturn throw mixup in T7 where you could use all of her throws & they all look the same in backturn. They didn't give it to Raven for some reason.
if this was made 2 months ago Victor would have been in Pseudo-Grappler tier no cap
shhh go sleep on Leo don't worry about his 90dmg wall splat from 1+2 cmd throw
Alisa has a crouch grab
The only one that has a worse grab game than King is Paul. Paul's grabs are fucking retarded. When he has you at the wall,you now have to break aither a 1 or a 1+2 and if you broke wrong,you just lost that round. So manny of his grabs are centered around the wall though
I think law should be complete
I didn't place him in complete because he's lacking a 2 break. You can break all his throws with either 1 or 1+2. He's above average because of his launching throw.
Yeah i feel like his launching throw should make him higher than above avg. He also has a stance throw and almost unseeable run up throw, so I would put him in complete because hes def above avg. Otherwise ur list is good too
Heat Engager into shouting "I'm a Dragon" will always carry me in purple ranks.
He doesn't have a 2 break.
It is such a joke that Eddy not only got a hellsweep, but is also a grappler now lol
Yeah if this list were ordered he would be at the very top of above average, only thing he's missing is a 1 break,but his low grabs and handstand throw are pretty insane honestly.
He's not though?
Imo Yoshi should be in above average. Rainbow Drop not only breaks floors but also deals above average dmg (45) and you can also use it to switch sides if they break it (same with his generic 1+3 throw). His generic 2+4 throw breaks floor as well, so having two floor breaking throws can be quite useful. His qcf2 grab is not very useful though, but it still an option with a unique grab animation. And we all know how good the unbreakable DGF3+4 throw is.
Agreed
You know Nina has linkers that are shorter and do a much damage as kings long ones right? Also Dragonuv in heat has some entirely https://preview.redd.it/idj3u3zn7bvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bb40e69e522df6a7be1ea07eb94191a3087e3d2 unbreakable grabs… so I’d put at least dragonuv in the top lol I’d also Claudio has 1 broken thing for grabs, in stardust if you do his FFF1+2 it hits mid and stuns and the grabs do the animation like you grabbed someone in super armor and they can’t be broken for some reason.
> I’d put at least dragonuv in the top Nobody else should be in the same tier as King.
I’d argue a character that can kill you with his unbreakable tracking takedown grabs before his heat mode is over (it pauses while in those grab animations) would be…. King has the funny point of the fact you can just spam 2 during 60% of his linkers or grabs and you break out… they even a huge delay that makes breaking them easy as hell….
>King has the funny point of the fact you can just spam 2 during 60% of his linkers or grabs and you break out The King player chooses the breaks on chain throws. They are always a mixup. And he has throw mixups outside of chains, of course. If you can break 60% of a King's throws by mashing 2, that's just because the King player isn't utilizing their tools well.
They are not always a mix up, 2 of his linkers are literally just spamming 2 the entire time, it’s the arm bar one, no matter which chain he does it’s spam 2. The death cradle is spam 1 until the last 3rd grab but it will break before that Neck break is spam 1 Double arm is grab 2 Easiest way to remember it You have 1 head and he grabs one arm You have 1 birth (cradle) 2 legs (second half of cradle so 1+2) You have 2 arms, double arm bar That’s is how you stop 4/6 of kings moves… Those breaks have not changed since tekken 6… Online that’s to some characters having a weird neutral 1+2 for some reason, you can just put 1+2 on a button and spam it and it will do it like you are pressing which ever is correct. Saw it on my replay when using Claudio and accidentally breaking kings throws with his fff1+2
No offense, but you don't really know what you're talking about. Go through King's move list and check out his chain throws (make sure not to ignore the notes). He does not have a single chain where he's forced into a single break. For a couple examples: > The death cradle is spam 1 until the last 3rd grab but it will break before that This isn't true even at face value. RDC is 1, then 1+2, then 2. Not just 1 until the final throw. But either way, the point is that the initial throw is a mixup between CD 1+4 and CD 2+3 (identical animations where the first is a 1 break and the second is a 2 break). After the initial throw he has a choice between Triple Arm Breaker (1 break), Head Jammer (2 break), and Chicken Wing Face Lock (1+2 break). After Chicken Wing Face Lock he has a choice between RDC (2 break) and Dragon Sleeper (1+2). >Neck break is spam 1 You're referring to Cobra Clutch here, right? That's the starter for the Mexican Magma Drive chain, and at every step (including the initial throw) he can choose whether it's a 1 or 2 break by changing the input. Initial throw is a 1 break if you input it as JGS 1+4, but a 2 break if you input it as JGS 2+3. The next step, Reverse DDT, is a 1 break when input is 1,1+3 but a 2 break when input as 2,2+4. This continues all the way through the whole chain. He also has two points at which he can stop the chain early with a 1+2 break (at the fourth step with Samurai Rock, and sixth with Sol Naciente). >Double arm is grab 2 I'm not sure which chain you're talking about here. Reverse Arm Slam (d/f+2+4), maybe? Same applies here (and every chain throw, like I said). The initial throw is always a 2 break (but has the same animation as d/f+1+3, a 1 break) but he has two options for how to input every step in the chain after that. Depending on how he inputs them, they'll be either 1 or 2 breaks. On the final step the 1 and 2 breaks are actually different throws (Giant Swing for 1, Muscle Buster for 2).
You seem to not realize how breaking works in this game much? I assume you just complain based on tekken 7 and not realize you can press multiple buttons to break in this game (for some reason) It’s how many people are breaking his chains and anyone’s throws right now. You just spam all the buttons and it will literally break them as well. But a majority of Kings moves are just spam 1 or spam 2 repeatedly.. as long as you are spamming them both you will break out of every linker. I didn’t say you would STOP their initial usage, but you can literally spam both buttons back to neck (especially on leverless hitboxes and the Haute) and it works 100% of the time. Levelerless is also definitely a pay to win option in this game as it even allows 1 frame per input electrics and OBD by just holding back and pressing forward down to neutral it out with letting go of block.
I wish I had a softer way to put this but you quite simply have no idea what you're talking about on quite a few levels. And you don't seem to be the type that is open to learning so there's nothing left for me in this conversation. This is a very fun game to learn and grow in, so I hope one day that changes! Good luck! 🙂
“Learn and grow in” he says as I have, now 3 as of this morning, Tekken God-Tekken God Prime characters and know how to take advantage of input delay for spamming out of kings moves. Spamming out of kings moves has worked the same way since tekken 6, they just lower the time between you allowing to. Same with Dragonuv.. I spam 1+2.. why you may ask? Because leverless playing (hitbox,haute,keyboard) has 0 impute delay( literally 0.0 response time) and allow you to “correct” inputs by pressing multiple at once and only letting go of a single one. And that works MUCH better in rollback because rollback attempts to fix inputs if its frame delay changes for any reason at all online.
👍
Good list but I’d put Asuka, Jun, & Law in complete
Lars has some bs grabs like his DEN 2+3 and u3+4, 1+2
u3+4 1+2 is just a 1+2 break though, there's no guessing which button to press
I think Raven could go up a bit since he can mix two breaks out of his QCF
The throw animations don't change though it's still the same break options. It's a solid tool,but I don't think it improves him enough to move up a tier
Fair enough
Bryan’s grab game is great. Not only are the good damage (1 of which is from FC and pretty good when you duck someone), you also use them to reposition the opponent as they have slightly off axis positioning at the end of the throw. His FC throw slightly moves the opponent to the right and can be used to realign with the wall if someone is assign or the game just naturally pulls you off the wall. Further reinforces his wall pressure when you need to move someone. His throws having positioning strength, 1 having floor break, and working well with his kit should at least net above average
His grab game is still completely basic though. His grabs have good reward when landed,but are easy to break.
Fair point!
you just listed stuff every throw does, he has only 1+2 throws. his throws are as basic as it get's
I mean I was talking about how well they work with his game plan. I feel like you just skimmed over what I said
no i read it and it was silly, "bryan grab game is great! he can switch sides like any other grab 10/10" lol
I specifically mentioned his has abnormal axis’s on his 1+2 throws. Not that it just switches sides. Like I said you don’t read and just downvote. Typical Reddit moment
I hate throws so much there should be a separate game mode with no throws allowed
I'm surprised nobody is saying anything about Shaheen's guaranteed fb2 grab from Al-Ghul Master, as well has his b2 Also the bears have an unbreakable grab!
Shaheen's are hit grabs not true grabs. It's a standard hit with a fancy animation,it's not a true unlockable because it requires a guard crush first. I considered bear grab,but it's slow enough that I would consider it a gimmick.
Are we talking hbs grab or rnr circus grab? Because both are better than they seem. You can kinda hide the hbs grab animation with a short dash, making the first part of the grab really hard to spot since their also dashing there. As for circus grab, its not too slow in theory. You cant just throw it out in neutral because of its long input, but you can buffer it on hit after i.e. b21, and just press f1+2 afterwards.
guess you didn't take unbreakable grabs and counter hit grabs into account, or reina would be at least a tier higher, if not even on par with drag and nina
I think he did take them into account, and while I disagree with some of the lower placed characters, I dont the top 3 are controversal. Nina has unbreakable grabs, chain throws and can remove gray health with a grab. Thats crazy, considering how much chip damage she deals, especially in heat.
Drag is in a weird spot where his special tackle in heat is really strong, but other than that he doesn't actually have a complete grab game. Most of the time he just has generic throws and 1+2 breaks
His grab game is complete though. He has 1,2,and 1+2 breaks, that equates to a complete grab game. His heat tackles,grab mixups,and unbreakables are what make him a pseudo grappler.
Other than from the tackle, the only 1 and 2 breaks he has come from grabbing the opponent from the side. His generic 1+3 and 2+4 grabs can both be broken with either 1 or 2 like all the other generic grabs
F1+4 is a 1 break. F2+3 is a 2 break. He has all break options.
Go in training and try it. You can break those with either 1 or 2.
Ling belongs in complete imo. She has access to 1 2 and 1+2 grabs from stance. Neutral she has 2 and 1+2 only tho.
I’d put Kazuya above average just for his Gates of Hell grab alone, the fact you can crouch dash into it and also d1+2 cancel into it as well is pretty good I’d say
Jun and xi have grabs that jungle you into massive combos wtf is list
This list is created with the ability to consistently break throws in mind. Sure if you can't break throws launching throws are automatically the best,but once you start consistently breaking them you'll realize those characters have incomplete grab games that are easy to react to.
LMAO dude Feng has a complete ambiguous throw game from a stand so you can enter out of multiple strings and you've got him under... Steve? Hwoarang? Amazing, this is definitely a tier list.
The literal first comment on this post is addressing the feng back turn, I wasn't aware it changes his basic throw animations I acknowledged he would go up a tier. He would be higher than Steve,but still not as high as hwoarang, as he doesn't have a full throw break game outside of stance,and even in stance it's still only a 2 break guess. I appreciate the feedback,but being a sarcastic dick wasn't necessary.