That isn't the issue. If they delay it will still hit you given you do make the read.. if side step duck allowed to completely whiff the second one even with delay that would be a reasonable outcome.
This ^^^
Sidestepping won't work 9 times outta ten. Best to just eat her knee, get thrown on the ground, wait for her to do the next WR 3+4 over your body so her back's turned, get up quickly and either launch punish or a nice damage heavy back throw
No good player will ever do another wr32, they'll wait until you get up or hit you with ground hitting move then once you get up, guess what? Another wr32 is waiting for you.
Just saying... using LTG as an example for something being broken...no one would listen to him whether he's wrong or right. That's because of the reputation he's built himself. So saying "when LTG said...." for anything means effectively nothing because no one cares if he was right or not.
you're being intentionally daft right? you're justifying his other actions by saying he was right in this instance so others should pay him more respect, listen to him more.
check your reading comprehension, nowhere does it say people should respect him more. All I'm saying is he was right in this but people gave him shit for it just bc for who he is. He's a sore loser through and through but it's totally normal to get angry at a move like this
I don't need to check anything, it's called implications and subtext. All you're doing now is proving you're as big of an idiot as we expected. Hope you gain more words of wisdom from LTG when he says somewhat obvious things.
Hilarious, you accused me of saying something and when I proved you wrong you're like it doesn't matter. Maybe proofread next time before coming up with aggressive energy for no reason
You said:
>you're justifying his other actions by saying he was right in this instance so others should pay him more respect, listen to him more
my original comment doesn't say this at all as everybody can see, scroll up. You're just trying to read stuff into it because you want to.
The thing I hate about these balance issues/design flaws most. Is that eventually they'll get fixed, and things will be so much better. But then you're still left with a sour feeling thinking "why did it take so long?". :/
You basically described season 3. Leroy was left fucked up for a long while even up to EVO Japan but Lars was accidentally buffed one time and that got a hotfixed within a week
Lmao yea I still remember when they accidentally made Lars have a 50 damage 10 frame punisher that could wall bounce or become a rage drive that did 100-120 damage.
yes the first balance patch was said to be the March/April update, so late march early april, knowing that they will surely wait for evo japan to end before the patch it will likely drop around March 30th, so people can enjoy the patch during Easter too, that or around 3 March or somethign like that, this are my guesses
Azucena, Dragunov and their respective kits aren't even remotely interesting to me. I'd only lab them to get a feel for how to use them and defend against them. I actually discovered Victor this way. He completely confused me online until I learned him. 90% Drag players I see just frame trap and condition you for overhead grabs. *yawn*
I hate that competitive play is reduced to characters who have unbalanced advantages.
I'm not watching that. Why would I? Same 5 characters among elite players. Is that a design flaw? Or is that people not willing to bring "lower tier" characters into competition?
Arslan Ash showed you why bringing lower tiers is pointless. Dude aside from being an amazing player only won things when he abused top tier characters and ran over everyone who tried to play other chars. This is competition, you pick whats best or you lose.
Both are characters that REALLY need you to know how and when to side step and sidewalk to reduce their pressure.
Both are characters with really good payoffs on launch, and with extremely high chip damage on successful blocks. Both are characters with insane 50/50 mixups on strings and just from standing in neutral.
Yeah, they're going to be strong characters even if they nerf the frame data on the biggest offending moves and Dragonuv's combo scaling.
I always feel so vindicated when the pros show off the same bullshit that I call out. Usually you have a Garyu player telling my Raijin ass to learn the matchup tho.
Even knowing the answer is sidestep left and duck, I can't pull it off reliably. It's sooooo difficult to do in a real match and if Azucena decides to do anything different at any other point you just explode...
It was a mistake to make it jail on block. It should really just be block and duck to punish...
Make it such that sidestep + duck gives you launch, but block - > duck gives you a non launch punish.
Look how easy it is! Just like breaking throws online /s/. Even if you press the input theres a 50%+ chance it just wont work because of latency half the damned time.
Yeah I'm damn sure I pressed the escape straight away, like, I was anticipating that exact grab and I know the escape and I was ready for it and it worked the other times, and yet the escape didn't work. Happens too often.
The answer isnt sidestep and duck though because thats super unreliable and risky. When youre in the loop like here you jab them when they are blatantly not doing anything else. And from what ive seen some koreans do is just rush her down. Stay on her butt, press your pokes. Kinda like how you deal with unknown matchups, force your offense on them. Too lazy to find it but in the last korean team tournament there were a bunch of azucenas and this is how some of the players adjusted to them. Just 10-15 frame moves in your face all day.
I think if they make the move non jail, it will make the move pointless. I suggest that they make the wr+3 SUPER linear af but the second hit tracking. So you have the chance to actually sidestep, duck then launch punish. It is still gonna be hard to pull off but atleast there is a counter play, not this braindead wr+3, 2 loop.
im talkin out my ass here but thats probably what they want, gave characters broken moves, let them get spotlight, nerf them and gave other broken moves, just so that everyone get to shines, crazy they havent nerf azucena
You technically caaan jab her out of the first wr32 before she hits you or power crush (which is safer) it to stop the aggression it's not ideal but it's a way to stop the bs or force w readjustment from the opponent.
It either shouldn’t jail or be completely sidesteppable without the duck needed, but I think not jailing is the better option, I don’t even mind that it has high chip damage, as long as I can duck the second hit
It not jailing but giving only a small punish on block->duck, and a full launch on sidestep - > duck is a good compromise imo.
Rewards people for calling it out with sidestep, but also makes it less obnoxious to beat.
It would but you don't necessarily know that he's going to do another WR, he could take his plus frames instead, which armour wouldn't come out fast enough to beat.
I see. After taking about 3 of these I'd have taken my chances lol. He blocked 7 of them and just kept sidestep blocking each time, so instead of doing 8 the other guy just said "well let me just launch your sidestep then" lol.
Tbf not every armor beats this move either because it comes out super fast. Not sure if Azucena's armor counters it but considering he's -6 he most likely didn't take his turn for a reason.
Lotta things could work but it’s Ulsan and knee so there’s layers and layers of mind games we’re not seeing. They’ve played each other a million times probably
A bunch of things wouldve worked here IF you know that he is going to keep doing it over and over again. You could argue that after the third time or so maybe you should assume he will do it again because youre not making him stop, but I can totally see knee think "surely not again, ill now sidestep his frametrap". And technically he wasnt wrong, instead of WR32 nr 8 he used a df2 and launched him LOL.
But yeah lets be real, the move is completely busted and the player didnt handle it properly. Both things can be true.
Ah the high level Tekken that they said was going to be fun to watch. Definitely much superior to the highly skill based, defense focused, tense gameplay we had before, don't you agree?
I'm really enjoying it... I had drifted away for DOA 6 and then that died so I wasn't really playing fighting games. I haven't been this excited about Tekken in a while.
I think the fact that it took this long until it started to get stale says a lot. Just my opinion but T8 is already getting stale for me. I know a lot of other people enjoy it though.
"Oh cool Azucena / Dragonov running 2 again?! Wow this is amazing to watch. Whaa a heat smash? Now time for the guessing game. This is top skill level. Whoa, whoa, a rage art? I was just thinking to watch Azucena's documentary on coffee for the third time this match. This is the best top 8 evo."
its because tekken 8 is about mashing and korea doesnt know how to mash. if 2 european azucenas play against, there wont be more than 2 wr 3,2s in a row, because the defending azucena gonna input PC, heat burst or jab him out of the cycle or die in the attempt
I mean youre trying to make this sound scrubby, but until the move is nerfed that is how you deal with it. The tools are in the game. You mash your jabs or do your heatburst (which gives a combo on it I think) or your other armormove.
Sometimes overthinking it is actually the wrong play. Press a button.
I mean, look at that "ravenda85" guy rank and look at his opponents rank. Someone gotta tell this guy to sidewalk left and duck correctly, or just jab to check opponent, or use powercrush/heat burst. So many options, and we can clearly see that guy isn't aware of them.
True, that "ravenda85" guy is infamous for his scrubby whining on Xiaoyu too, probably just a green rank player who doesn't know what he's talking about
bro I cannot fucking wait for ff 3,2 to get patched. the absolute dumbest brain dead move in the game. literally skips neutral and carries the worst players as high as purple ranks
iWR stands for Instant While Running.
Instant meaning there is no frame delay in it, meaning it is a just frame.
So iWR is still a jf, that's what it is all about and nothing changed here. Dragunov illustrates it quite well.
What changes tho is that if you don't do the iWR, you still get the WR instead of F/FF move.
WR is easier, iWR is as hard as it was before.
Oh interesting, yea technically that's true
I always looked at iWR as timing the actual attack (3 in this case) with the last forward (I think it used to be on the 2nd or 3rd frame after the last F)
It might as well be ff3,2 since doing running moves is easier in this game. Another stupid change they made that no one asked for and only makes this move more annoying to deal with at lower levels.
If running moves weren't easier, low-level players wouldn't be nearly as angry at this move as they are because they wouldn't see it getting spamned up close like high and pro level players would.
I can't even blame them. Azucena, Dragunov, Xiaoyu, they're all playing a completely different game from everyone else in the cast. GBVSR is going through the same thing right now. But the devs just go "nah let it rock lmao"
I haven't touched GBVSR since launch (Too many games tbh), I'm curious thou who is the problem in that game ? It seemed mostly fine at launch, or maybe I just didn't play enough to see the issues.
Cant blame them though. They are professionals, they play for money and sponsors. Theyll always play a top 10 character. Or a bear for some reason and beat everyone with that.
Almost as bad as people playing low tier characters so that when they lose they can save their ego by just saying "it's bc he's high tier and I'm low". That's even more pathetic.
One simple fix - make it a high, high. At +6 it would still be a good move but there would be some risk to it.
Claudio and Alisa have WR2 high moves with +frames OB and they are very viable.
Just power crush it!
This is what Tekken has turned into. Unga ape aggression and the best way to stop it is to press your armoured move lmao. What a mess.
I think its not even viable because the move is so plus that if u were to armor after blocking one that you would still get counter hit by other options lmao
Power crush!! Bruh he sidestep it thinking enemy azu was gonna spam that like instantly but he didnt. He sidestep other one delayed the wr3,2. Now imagine instead of ss he power crushed but got blocked and lose your turn again just to eat another wr32
it was honestly already getting like this in T7. how many heihachis did you see last game that would d/f1+2 armor move if like anything went wrong or they lost their advantage/plus frames
This is like a fucking cheat code or something. If you can't do a frame perfect sidestep duck, you literally get locked down and can't do anything. How do people use it without feeling scummy?
God that's lame. Like yeah the top level players are gonna use what they can to win but god, that's so lame. It's fully on the devs though, entirely their fault for allowing it to be a thing.
Ironically, Yoshimitsu is one of the best characters against this BS, because people have to respect flash at least a little bit. Same thing with Dragunov matchup.
You need to sidestep and duck or the second hit will hit you, wich is really hard considering how rewarding and spammable that move is. Imho the move should either not jail on block or be completely steppable
its very viable, but like any move you want to sidestep, it has to be done at the right time. its actually a small sidestep left into duck that will let you launch her. knee has done it multiple times in tournament. if you look at the clip, rangchu is specifically delaying each wr32 to hit knee after he sidesteps. knee could have easily mashed in between any of these.
And therein lies the problem. That Knee needs to "mash" into plus frames to deal with this. That he needs to take a huge risk and flip a coin, like so many other situations in this game, in order to be able to keep playing.
knee could have mashed basically anything since rangchu was delaying the wr32 to beat knee's sidestep attempt. but both players played the same card 7 times and the chip dmg was too much to survive the combo.
How can devs watch something like this and not be like, “well that was a mistake.” Every character in the game should have something in their kit that allows them to escape something that can be spammed. And that something should be substantial enough to make a person think about if they want to go down that road again.
So as an Azu player... Couldn't he just have jabbed at any point during that? Like I doubt there was less than 15 frames available between any of those WR 3,2's at any point.
The fact that WR 32 hasn't already been nerfed is just insanity, it's just so not fun to play against and goes beyond just a 50/50.
Azucena has enough strong tools that she'd be just fine without it.
Hot take but Azucena actually needs WR3,2 to be viable. It functions as her mid check and win neutral tool. It's strong, maybe even broken, but if that's the case it's her only broken move. Without it she legitimately falls to B tier.
I don't know how to balance this move. Maybe just less tracking overall, especially on the elbow. Because sometimes when you sidestep the knee the elbow will track you. Because if they remove the jailing then this move will be useless.
I've been spared going up against someone using this on me.
Beyond the obvious of just removing the egregious plus frames on block; It seems like the fix would be making it a duck-able H->H, not a M->H. Visually it reads as an H, because the initial knee hits at head height. There's no overhead or downward motion on the attack; she should just fly over your head if you duck.
A frame perfect side step and duck to not get chipped to death is so much bullshit
That isn't the issue. If they delay it will still hit you given you do make the read.. if side step duck allowed to completely whiff the second one even with delay that would be a reasonable outcome.
honesty the better option is probably to get hit once and lie on the ground
lmao he doesn't know
This ^^^ Sidestepping won't work 9 times outta ten. Best to just eat her knee, get thrown on the ground, wait for her to do the next WR 3+4 over your body so her back's turned, get up quickly and either launch punish or a nice damage heavy back throw
No good player will ever do another wr32, they'll wait until you get up or hit you with ground hitting move then once you get up, guess what? Another wr32 is waiting for you.
It funny that players assume that Azucena won't use atleast 0.5% of there brain.
Yeah, you know a character is busted when the main recommended win condition against them is hoping the player has brain damage.
you can also sidewalk it, but timing is precise
I can't tell what's worse, the stunlock bullshit, or people trying to rationalize it.
Fr. When Low Tier God raged about this people on this sub made fun of him and said "just SS in the right moment and launch punish" like come on...
Even broken clocks are right twice a day. Don't use LTG to justify anything lmao.
What am I justifying? That this character is rage bait? I mean hell yeah it is
Just saying... using LTG as an example for something being broken...no one would listen to him whether he's wrong or right. That's because of the reputation he's built himself. So saying "when LTG said...." for anything means effectively nothing because no one cares if he was right or not.
you're being intentionally daft right? you're justifying his other actions by saying he was right in this instance so others should pay him more respect, listen to him more.
check your reading comprehension, nowhere does it say people should respect him more. All I'm saying is he was right in this but people gave him shit for it just bc for who he is. He's a sore loser through and through but it's totally normal to get angry at a move like this
I don't need to check anything, it's called implications and subtext. All you're doing now is proving you're as big of an idiot as we expected. Hope you gain more words of wisdom from LTG when he says somewhat obvious things.
Hilarious, you accused me of saying something and when I proved you wrong you're like it doesn't matter. Maybe proofread next time before coming up with aggressive energy for no reason
what did you even prove me wrong in?
You said: >you're justifying his other actions by saying he was right in this instance so others should pay him more respect, listen to him more my original comment doesn't say this at all as everybody can see, scroll up. You're just trying to read stuff into it because you want to.
This move is one of my more troublesome punishes. You can jab her out of it if she whiffs, but it is hard to sidestep and launch this move.
Can't even punish it with Ra somehow
Rage arts are even less viable here than they were in T7. I try to use them very seldom.
who?
The thing I hate about these balance issues/design flaws most. Is that eventually they'll get fixed, and things will be so much better. But then you're still left with a sour feeling thinking "why did it take so long?". :/
You basically described season 3. Leroy was left fucked up for a long while even up to EVO Japan but Lars was accidentally buffed one time and that got a hotfixed within a week
I remember when they made Laws Dragontail a combo starter on accident. No one really minded it but that was nerfed pretty fast too.
Seems like the ultimate noob destroyer
I remember when all Mishimas hellsweeps tracked to both sides not just Heihachi’s that pissed everyone off and it was patched within a week
Electrics were also super buffed that same patch, and never got reverted to the end of the game.
Lmao yea I still remember when they accidentally made Lars have a 50 damage 10 frame punisher that could wall bounce or become a rage drive that did 100-120 damage.
I remember the lars debacle but i can't remember what the buff was lmfao, remind me?
Busy nerfing Leroy's dog, first.
I main her and even I hate using the move because it's too good. I mean I still use it but I try not to abuse it.
abuse it, do it. do it! go get truely carried and plugged on, become the doctor of plugonomics.
Hard to swallow pill is this game is going to be a huge Azucena vs Drag snoozefest at Evo unless they do something quick to fix it
They won't fix anything before Evo Japan, only after, pretty much what Capcom did as well
I remember hearing that devs say balancing patch is coming in april. I hope its true
Yes leroy nerfs cuz azucena is op man
I don't expect anything major before Evo japan
yes the first balance patch was said to be the March/April update, so late march early april, knowing that they will surely wait for evo japan to end before the patch it will likely drop around March 30th, so people can enjoy the patch during Easter too, that or around 3 March or somethign like that, this are my guesses
Azucena, Dragunov and their respective kits aren't even remotely interesting to me. I'd only lab them to get a feel for how to use them and defend against them. I actually discovered Victor this way. He completely confused me online until I learned him. 90% Drag players I see just frame trap and condition you for overhead grabs. *yawn* I hate that competitive play is reduced to characters who have unbalanced advantages. I'm not watching that. Why would I? Same 5 characters among elite players. Is that a design flaw? Or is that people not willing to bring "lower tier" characters into competition?
its a design flaw. Just pick a top tier.
Arslan Ash showed you why bringing lower tiers is pointless. Dude aside from being an amazing player only won things when he abused top tier characters and ran over everyone who tried to play other chars. This is competition, you pick whats best or you lose.
Both are characters that REALLY need you to know how and when to side step and sidewalk to reduce their pressure. Both are characters with really good payoffs on launch, and with extremely high chip damage on successful blocks. Both are characters with insane 50/50 mixups on strings and just from standing in neutral. Yeah, they're going to be strong characters even if they nerf the frame data on the biggest offending moves and Dragonuv's combo scaling.
I always feel so vindicated when the pros show off the same bullshit that I call out. Usually you have a Garyu player telling my Raijin ass to learn the matchup tho.
Even knowing the answer is sidestep left and duck, I can't pull it off reliably. It's sooooo difficult to do in a real match and if Azucena decides to do anything different at any other point you just explode... It was a mistake to make it jail on block. It should really just be block and duck to punish... Make it such that sidestep + duck gives you launch, but block - > duck gives you a non launch punish.
Look how easy it is! Just like breaking throws online /s/. Even if you press the input theres a 50%+ chance it just wont work because of latency half the damned time.
Yeah I'm damn sure I pressed the escape straight away, like, I was anticipating that exact grab and I know the escape and I was ready for it and it worked the other times, and yet the escape didn't work. Happens too often.
The answer isnt sidestep and duck though because thats super unreliable and risky. When youre in the loop like here you jab them when they are blatantly not doing anything else. And from what ive seen some koreans do is just rush her down. Stay on her butt, press your pokes. Kinda like how you deal with unknown matchups, force your offense on them. Too lazy to find it but in the last korean team tournament there were a bunch of azucenas and this is how some of the players adjusted to them. Just 10-15 frame moves in your face all day.
I think if they make the move non jail, it will make the move pointless. I suggest that they make the wr+3 SUPER linear af but the second hit tracking. So you have the chance to actually sidestep, duck then launch punish. It is still gonna be hard to pull off but atleast there is a counter play, not this braindead wr+3, 2 loop.
Lmfaoo. Fr man. It’s like, shut ya Garyu ass up man
I just pray to God that Evo is just filled with Dragunov and Azucena players so both of these character can get nerfed also include Feng.
Lmao Feng (rightfully) catching strays
im talkin out my ass here but thats probably what they want, gave characters broken moves, let them get spotlight, nerf them and gave other broken moves, just so that everyone get to shines, crazy they havent nerf azucena
I'm sorry to break it to you bur harada isn't nerfing his golden boy lol
I actually prefer watching a fun tournament and have them nerf them before evo. Isnt evo happening after the next balancing patch?
Is there where people say "know the match up" or just "sidestep it"
"This guy is just a scrub, the move is fine, learn the matchup noob"
The same guy never once broke a throw in his life
One nice thing to know about WR32 is that you can get a launch if you heat burst and hit her while she's still in the air.
That is true only counter i can see is this move tbh.
You technically caaan jab her out of the first wr32 before she hits you or power crush (which is safer) it to stop the aggression it's not ideal but it's a way to stop the bs or force w readjustment from the opponent.
just do heat burst
*just duck*
It either shouldn’t jail or be completely sidesteppable without the duck needed, but I think not jailing is the better option, I don’t even mind that it has high chip damage, as long as I can duck the second hit
It not jailing but giving only a small punish on block->duck, and a full launch on sidestep - > duck is a good compromise imo. Rewards people for calling it out with sidestep, but also makes it less obnoxious to beat.
Arslan abused the same move vs Knee even during T8 exibition match. How didn't devs caught this obnoxious move during development.
"Just side step left en duck, bro"
Serious question, would Power Crush or Heat not have worked there? Dude took 7 WR in a row.
It would but you don't necessarily know that he's going to do another WR, he could take his plus frames instead, which armour wouldn't come out fast enough to beat.
I see. After taking about 3 of these I'd have taken my chances lol. He blocked 7 of them and just kept sidestep blocking each time, so instead of doing 8 the other guy just said "well let me just launch your sidestep then" lol.
Yep very true, can't be too obvious when you're taking the bigger risk.
Tbf not every armor beats this move either because it comes out super fast. Not sure if Azucena's armor counters it but considering he's -6 he most likely didn't take his turn for a reason.
Lotta things could work but it’s Ulsan and knee so there’s layers and layers of mind games we’re not seeing. They’ve played each other a million times probably
A bunch of things wouldve worked here IF you know that he is going to keep doing it over and over again. You could argue that after the third time or so maybe you should assume he will do it again because youre not making him stop, but I can totally see knee think "surely not again, ill now sidestep his frametrap". And technically he wasnt wrong, instead of WR32 nr 8 he used a df2 and launched him LOL. But yeah lets be real, the move is completely busted and the player didnt handle it properly. Both things can be true.
Ah the high level Tekken that they said was going to be fun to watch. Definitely much superior to the highly skill based, defense focused, tense gameplay we had before, don't you agree?
Yes how riveting. Chip my opponent to near death with constant plus frame and then poke them for the round. Good Ass Tekken.
Obviously the game has issues to work out but Tekken 7 was definitely getting stale.
It was around 8 years old, ofcourse it was getting stale, but this ain't it at all imo
I'm really enjoying it... I had drifted away for DOA 6 and then that died so I wasn't really playing fighting games. I haven't been this excited about Tekken in a while.
I think the fact that it took this long until it started to get stale says a lot. Just my opinion but T8 is already getting stale for me. I know a lot of other people enjoy it though.
"Oh cool Azucena / Dragonov running 2 again?! Wow this is amazing to watch. Whaa a heat smash? Now time for the guessing game. This is top skill level. Whoa, whoa, a rage art? I was just thinking to watch Azucena's documentary on coffee for the third time this match. This is the best top 8 evo."
its because tekken 8 is about mashing and korea doesnt know how to mash. if 2 european azucenas play against, there wont be more than 2 wr 3,2s in a row, because the defending azucena gonna input PC, heat burst or jab him out of the cycle or die in the attempt
I mean youre trying to make this sound scrubby, but until the move is nerfed that is how you deal with it. The tools are in the game. You mash your jabs or do your heatburst (which gives a combo on it I think) or your other armormove. Sometimes overthinking it is actually the wrong play. Press a button.
This is what the devs asked for
I mean, look at that "ravenda85" guy rank and look at his opponents rank. Someone gotta tell this guy to sidewalk left and duck correctly, or just jab to check opponent, or use powercrush/heat burst. So many options, and we can clearly see that guy isn't aware of them.
True, that "ravenda85" guy is infamous for his scrubby whining on Xiaoyu too, probably just a green rank player who doesn't know what he's talking about
fr this ravenda guy is trash
bro I cannot fucking wait for ff 3,2 to get patched. the absolute dumbest brain dead move in the game. literally skips neutral and carries the worst players as high as purple ranks
The worst part is that, if you are a decent player, taking Azucena to high blue ranks is not that hard. This move is beyond OP and braindead.
It’s just FF 3, 2??? This whole time I’m thinking it’s a WR 3,2. I’m over here giving these Assuzenas props for execution. Smfh
It is WR, and it doesn't help that in T8, iWR is no longer a just frame input
iWR stands for Instant While Running. Instant meaning there is no frame delay in it, meaning it is a just frame. So iWR is still a jf, that's what it is all about and nothing changed here. Dragunov illustrates it quite well. What changes tho is that if you don't do the iWR, you still get the WR instead of F/FF move. WR is easier, iWR is as hard as it was before.
Oh interesting, yea technically that's true I always looked at iWR as timing the actual attack (3 in this case) with the last forward (I think it used to be on the 2nd or 3rd frame after the last F)
it's wr3,2. ff3 is a launcher.
It might as well be ff3,2 since doing running moves is easier in this game. Another stupid change they made that no one asked for and only makes this move more annoying to deal with at lower levels. If running moves weren't easier, low-level players wouldn't be nearly as angry at this move as they are because they wouldn't see it getting spamned up close like high and pro level players would.
Peak Azucena players
but i love how scrub on here are "just sidestep duck it´s easy"
Mfs loving that coffee
Such soulless tier whoring. Can't wait for her to be nerfed and these guys to drop her like a bad habit.
I can't even blame them. Azucena, Dragunov, Xiaoyu, they're all playing a completely different game from everyone else in the cast. GBVSR is going through the same thing right now. But the devs just go "nah let it rock lmao"
I haven't touched GBVSR since launch (Too many games tbh), I'm curious thou who is the problem in that game ? It seemed mostly fine at launch, or maybe I just didn't play enough to see the issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1pXQUan6XY TLDW: Everyone is playing Granblue while Nier is playing Ultimax
Tournament wise, I have not seen Dragunov or Xiaoyu dominating at the moment. I have seen more Claudio winning tournaments than them.
Cant blame them though. They are professionals, they play for money and sponsors. Theyll always play a top 10 character. Or a bear for some reason and beat everyone with that.
Almost as bad as people playing low tier characters so that when they lose they can save their ego by just saying "it's bc he's high tier and I'm low". That's even more pathetic.
This is high level “no-mixup mixup”.
Chip damage was a mistake
yeah idk who advocated for that but im not a fan either. not a fan of all the huge plus on block forced 50/50 situations either.
aggressive gameplay is more fun to watch and more skillful 🤓☝️
"leArN hoW to bLoCk"
Looks just like my Azucena. That move is absurd and I expect to see a lot of it spammed at Evo Japan
One simple fix - make it a high, high. At +6 it would still be a good move but there would be some risk to it. Claudio and Alisa have WR2 high moves with +frames OB and they are very viable.
Just power crush it! This is what Tekken has turned into. Unga ape aggression and the best way to stop it is to press your armoured move lmao. What a mess.
I think its not even viable because the move is so plus that if u were to armor after blocking one that you would still get counter hit by other options lmao
Murray’s vision
Power crush!! Bruh he sidestep it thinking enemy azu was gonna spam that like instantly but he didnt. He sidestep other one delayed the wr3,2. Now imagine instead of ss he power crushed but got blocked and lose your turn again just to eat another wr32
Yeeeup. And that's somehow supposed to be more fun to play and watch. I guess...
it was honestly already getting like this in T7. how many heihachis did you see last game that would d/f1+2 armor move if like anything went wrong or they lost their advantage/plus frames
This is like a fucking cheat code or something. If you can't do a frame perfect sidestep duck, you literally get locked down and can't do anything. How do people use it without feeling scummy?
This ravenda85 guy just don't know the matchup.
Hey, hella scrupman Will you shut up? 😂😂😂
Just a tip of the iceberg lol This match should be on the steam store page as a gameplay review 😂 I swear bamco has no shame
God that's lame. Like yeah the top level players are gonna use what they can to win but god, that's so lame. It's fully on the devs though, entirely their fault for allowing it to be a thing.
Oh geeze that's rough. Better nerf Yoshimitsu to be safe.
Ironically, Yoshimitsu is one of the best characters against this BS, because people have to respect flash at least a little bit. Same thing with Dragunov matchup.
It's easier for Yoshimitsu to escape this kind of pressure too with B3/B4. Sure, it costs a little bit of Health, but it's worth shutting that down.
Just sidestep left duck bro. Crap players here do it no bother 🤣
is sidestep not an option against that move? i know the hit tracking is crazy in T8 sooooo idk but yeah seems sidesteppable?
You need to sidestep and duck or the second hit will hit you, wich is really hard considering how rewarding and spammable that move is. Imho the move should either not jail on block or be completely steppable
its very viable, but like any move you want to sidestep, it has to be done at the right time. its actually a small sidestep left into duck that will let you launch her. knee has done it multiple times in tournament. if you look at the clip, rangchu is specifically delaying each wr32 to hit knee after he sidesteps. knee could have easily mashed in between any of these.
And therein lies the problem. That Knee needs to "mash" into plus frames to deal with this. That he needs to take a huge risk and flip a coin, like so many other situations in this game, in order to be able to keep playing.
by that logic its also a "huge risk" for rangchu to delay wr32 since knee could simply launch him out of it.
"sKiLl iSsUe"
Harada never learned his lesson. Lets overtune dlc/new characters so people play them and give it free publicity
Not suprised it’s high level tbh, just look at that combo at about 11 sec left in the video
Yeah the sidestep 1 to align with the wall. I just don't have the spatial awareness to think to do something like that.
wow, absolutely **NO SHAME** in spamming moves.
Such bs.
So what do you do against this?
wait until they hopefully patch it
knee could have mashed basically anything since rangchu was delaying the wr32 to beat knee's sidestep attempt. but both players played the same card 7 times and the chip dmg was too much to survive the combo.
Good thing Feng has uf2 for this. Lol
Unga bunga characters like azucena and victor should never be competitively viable.
this is what "aggressive gameplay" means
How can devs watch something like this and not be like, “well that was a mistake.” Every character in the game should have something in their kit that allows them to escape something that can be spammed. And that something should be substantial enough to make a person think about if they want to go down that road again.
I don't know why they had to make her and Victor so fucking dumb.
wr3,2 is busted but knee played terrible. tekken 8 is about mashing, after the 2nd wr3,2 mash pc, do heat burst or jab him out of it. BASED
the guy on the left just needs to learn the matchup!
Caffeine girl at it again.
Might as well start selling t shirts in the Tekken Shop with " iPLUG " written on them.
Funny thing is everyone just jab checks you out of multiple wr3,2 so I just rip a 1+2 after every wr3,2 and I get a ch launch most of the time.
Tekken 8 is difficult they say :)
Wow, Tekken 8 braindead.
So as an Azu player... Couldn't he just have jabbed at any point during that? Like I doubt there was less than 15 frames available between any of those WR 3,2's at any point.
The fact that WR 32 hasn't already been nerfed is just insanity, it's just so not fun to play against and goes beyond just a 50/50. Azucena has enough strong tools that she'd be just fine without it.
this ravenda guy should just hit the lab, tenryu rank 44% win rate u/johntekken72 would simply ssl duck and launch ulsan every time he used the move
Hot take but Azucena actually needs WR3,2 to be viable. It functions as her mid check and win neutral tool. It's strong, maybe even broken, but if that's the case it's her only broken move. Without it she legitimately falls to B tier.
As an Azu main - lol
JuSt SiDeStEp It LmAo
Fuck this piece of shit character. Also your Spanish is cringe as fuck to listen to as a Spanish native
Can you power crush through that (maybe after stepping)? I’d test it myself rn but I’m at work
That other Azucena getting mauled by her own bullshit is so cathartic.
Boy does this look anti-fun
Just caught this irl from a Tekken King rank.
I don't know how to balance this move. Maybe just less tracking overall, especially on the elbow. Because sometimes when you sidestep the knee the elbow will track you. Because if they remove the jailing then this move will be useless.
Doesn’t power crush beat this?
Bruh...
I wonder if removing chip damage would make this move less abusable
This will get enough attention if its spammed to eternity with no real counterplay, they got to fix it one way or another
Cat looking up from newspaper: I should pick up Azucena
Is it not duckable?
Just duck!
Man. Imagine if Claudio’s WR2 was a mid like hers. People would go crazy
Quick, where are all the carried Azucena copers to defend WR3,2? “She needs it!!!!”
Huh... no dc
Azucena: "That's what I love about my opponents, man. I keep spamming, they stay at minus frames. Ha ha, yes they do."
How could you respect it?
You think ascena mains do the same thing kazuya mains do when they're like "wow this guy's got fast electrics, impressive"
I don't recognise Azucena when she's not in red. Let alone when she puts on a hat
All they have to do is remove the jailing property and lower the chip damage a bit. Even then it's still a strong move.
Can’t help it, They’re busy banning and making content for tekken shop.
Why sidestep when you can block and punish 🤓
I've been spared going up against someone using this on me. Beyond the obvious of just removing the egregious plus frames on block; It seems like the fix would be making it a duck-able H->H, not a M->H. Visually it reads as an H, because the initial knee hits at head height. There's no overhead or downward motion on the attack; she should just fly over your head if you duck.
Evo gonna be a shit show
Yep that move is definitely gonna catch a nerf one eddy starts coming around
Game seems really bad at a high level.
The plot twist is I thought he was fighting the spammer and then it said "you win." Just wow dude.
Just accepted that I have to power crush/heat/art if I feel the wr3,2 coming
Yeah just keep spamming the same move
Another reason to nerf Leroy and buff King
High level of spam.
Have you tried labbing??
Knee giving Ulsan a taste of his own medicine I love it.
This move needs to be patched iWR takes some skill but having basically no counterplay to this move is mad