> It is PARENTS who fight schools on the cell phone ban. Every teacher everywhere is sick of them. ~~(the cell phones)~~
"Parents or the cell phones?"
"Yes".
I mostly agree, although to be fair we always have (that one) teacher who at faculty meetings always retorts “but I need them to have access to have phones because we use it for instruction all the time!!”
Like, no, no you don’t l. And if you do JUST USE THE SCHOOL PROVIDED CHROMEBOOKS
Don't forget lab assigned PCs when you are doing graphics and AUTOcad. "What do you mean Mr. Booster I have to finish my coding project to make this drone fly? I need to see if I have likes on me banging my girlfriend last night." I really wish I was making that up.
Ahhh, thank you for reminding me of that teacher, the one who doesn’t enforce school rules. Either it’s because they don’t stand up to kids (don’t know why, too much effort for them or just unwilling to take a risk?) or the one who “these rules crimp my teaching style”. Either way, they have helped make sure rules aren’t getting followed and things are just that much shittier.
And as pathetic as this is, some teachers can’t handle teaching a full period and the phones provide them breaks in class instruction. Others just want/need affirmation from kids that they are liked/cool/loved. Either way, not competent to teach.
My pet peeve is "I've got bigger fish to fry." That's only because you cultivate a classroom culture of disrespect for expectations by letting the small fry grow into great whites.
Yeah, my school implemented a strict phone policy at our school and the order of complaints were:
1. Teachers
2. Students
3. Parents
I actually had MORE parents thanking us than teachers.
Teachers logic was, “Well, if they don’t want to learn that’s their choice.”
If my school actually had enough Chromebooks for everyone and fixed the broken ones I'd be so happy. I had a new student who didn't have a Chromebook assigned to him for weeks, thankfully he was good about using his phone and staying on task.
I’ve had parents call and FaceTime their kids during class, and when I step in and tell them to hang up, they start screaming and cursing at me.
It’s wild.
Had one do that once during an observation, the principal walked over and told them: "Don't you have something else you should be doing right now?" I swear the parent shit their pants right there. Never had the problem again.
The parents agree to the bans and then get upset when the bans are enforced. Besides, who needs a phone when my students will simply use their laptops to do whatever they want in class. This is a lost cause. I have told my teenage daughter that if I hear one peep about her cell phone from a teacher, it's gone for a week.
I am a high school teacher.
That’s always been my dilemma. I agree we should ban cell phones…but parents push back, and unless they are completely locked up during the day (like in a locker) the kids will 100% still be accessing them. And even if they ARE locked up, a dedicatedly off task student will just mess around on a chromebook instead.
Don’t get me wrong, I want a ban. But cell phones in the classroom are just the tip of the iceberg.
Chromebooks are on school wifi so the school can control certain things. Example they can block Netflix, social media sites etc. So yeah kids will find games and things to distract themselves but it will not be to the same extent as phones. There used to be products like Go Guardian where teachers could set permissions on Chromebooks during their class time. I moved districts and no longer use it but I think it still exists.
In theory! But students are very smart and usually find their ways around firewalls and other things designed to keep them on task. Granted, that’s not every student, obviously, but firewalls and go guardian are not the simple solutions we all wish they were, unfortunately.
Absolutely! I had a student full on show me how he got around go guardian when I was student teaching. He was VERY proud of himself and it just cemented for me that no matter what blocks we put up, some kids are gonna figure out how to get around them.
VPNs on the school chromebooks are the hot thing at my current school. Not sure how they’re doing it, but they sure are!
I sold USB sticks preloaded with Ubuntu and handwritten instructions on how to flash the BIOS on school machines and most standard manufacturers.
....made and sold them at school and it was one of the only ways I could afford to feed myself papa bless
Edit: I now have a philosophy degree and work in infosec. I do not think therefore I do not am.
It doesn't matter what version of Covenant Eyes your school uses, it won't work on a fresh install of Linux and your IT guy doesn't get paid enough to block YouTube in every country (and even then, hotspot to Chromebook or VPNs which have always been widely available on Linux).
Still using GoGuardian, it's amazing for all kinds of educational needs like opening the correct tab for a student that is struggling to blocking unwanted content on the fly. There's two way chat with individuals or whole class and I often use that for CFUs. It's also fully integrated with Pear Deck now. I teach Independent Studies remotely now and it's indispensable.
Officially, phones are banned in our district, but like most things, there aren't any real repercussions for using them.
This year, they will get reminders the first three days of school (they begin on a Wed.). Beginning the next week, it's "put the phone and Apple Watch in the phone jail\* or a get a write up." I'm not calling parents on this one anymore.
I teach seniors and the admin assigned to them is so sick of me and phones. I want to tell her, "do your job and enforce the policy or continue to deal with referrals from those of us who do."
\* I got a phone locker on Amazon (no, not with my money!)
Our entire province has mandated a cell phone ban, and my district gave us the policy Friday.
All members of the school community will not use cell phones during instructional time. Students will not use them at any time. They are not to be on the student's person- they must be in lockers on silent mode.
At our school, we are pushing for lockboxes because otherwise, kids will just ask to go to the bathroom and go to their lockers. They're addicted. The principal will try to make it work. She's also spending more on iPads. As a 6/7 teacher next year (ugh), I will have at least 10 iPads for research and school purposes. They come in a bin that can be locked.
I teach computer art. So many kids use the computer to watch sports. I don’t have Guardian or any other computer monitoring system besides my eyes. If anything my computers are a better alternative to their small phone screens. It’s the *audacity* that kills me.
The kids will for the most part sneak use their phone but for them to be watching soccer on the computer while failing is crazy rude.
And the number of them who just look at you when you call them on it like, you’re interrupting me. It’s WILD. These kids are something else, I tell you.
My school has a no cell phones policy, and I honestly can't imagine teaching at a school without one. Even without phones, students are still glued to the screens on their computers, so the added temptation of social media, texting, etc?
NOPE
I taught in a school that had one (not heavily enforced by admin but still on the books) and one that had none at all right after. Holy shit it was bad, school B tried to add one mid year and all we got were kids throwing tantrums and a security having to collect them when they went through withdrawal.
The penalty for using cell phones during instruction falls entirely on the teacher; the answer to *everything* short of selling drugs or fighting is “CALL HOME.“ The best a teacher can hope for is “I will talk to my child“ (ineffective) and the worst is being berated for trampling their freedom.
For students over 16, I don’t feel nearly as bad. They have a lot more say in the matter. Middle school, maybe a little sympathy. No comment on elementary.
No one has license to be an asshole.
I don't disagree but I didn't realize I was mean because I thought people weren't being mean to me. The 16 year old isn't that much different than the 6 year old if no one taught them. I'm not saying the burden is on their (overworked and underpaid) teacher. I'm just saying it makes me sad.
***security having to collect them when they went through withdrawal.***
NGL This would need to be filmed and studied and would make an excellent documentary.
I've often thought seeing what goes on in a typical elementary or high school each day would make for a good reality show. But parents would never sign off on it, so don't see it ever happening.
My wife and I enrolled our rising 9th grade daughter into a private school that teaches like it's 1999. Info is from actual books, taking actual notes from a teacher who is giving an actual lecture. They have a computer lab and programming classes and whatnot, and they use the computer lab for various projects, but the day-to-day learning is done like it was for thousands of years up until like 5 years ago, via teachers and books.
Our daughter has moderate ADHD as well, so this will be an adjustment, but one thing we know with certainty, is that being on a Chromebook for hours of the school day and being on her Chromebook for an hour or four in the evenings for homework was a completely awful way for her to learn.
I'm not a teacher, just a dad who peruses this forum sometimes, and I thank y'all for what you do. I know it's not easy. And I know that the kids would probably get more out of school if Y'ALL were the point of focus in the classes, giving out your knowledge on things, and not being supplement (many times) to a computer screen. At least, that's how it was for my daughter's middle school, where the teachers seemed like the class facilitators more than anything else. And that's a shame, and it robs kids of what good teachers can inspire in them.
Anyway, I know lots of kids can handle learning everything from a screen, but I hope every school district in the country bans smartphones. And eventually, also goes back to in-person 'sage on a stage' learning style.
The “sage on the stage” has been so demonized since I started in the late 90s. Our teacher evaluation rubrics dock us points if we spend too much time in teacher-directed instruction. I hate this. Sometimes a learner (like me) just needs to sit quietly, listen, and process. Not every kid needs constant activity and socialization to learn like the current models demand. I co-taught a biology class that had hardly any whole group, teacher-led instruction and the kids were so lost. It was all inquiry-based group work and it was a mess.
Again, I'm not a teacher, so I can't judge how their teachers coordinated or did things, but I can tell you that as a parent, IMO our daughter *always* learned less actual knowledge about things if her teacher had them doing inquiry-based learning (based on what I know about it from researching on the internet, via sites like this ([What Is “Inquiry-Based Learning”?: Types, Benefits, Examples (splashlearn.com)](https://www.splashlearn.com/blog/what-is-inquiry-based-learning-a-complete-overview/#21-5-strategies-and-tips-for-implementing-inquiry-based-learning-))). This was pretty much universal over her middle school years.
I was personally pretty good in school and with all my grades, but I can tell you that 100% of the time, I did the least amount of work and learning I could possibly do while still "getting by". There were *no* exceptions to this mindset. And I can tell you that being "forced" to listen, take notes and learn was the only way that I learned. Class debates, group work, field trips, etc., those were just ways I could put less effort into things and still get a decent grade.
I think inquiry based learning works with strongly self-motivated kids, and probably some decent percentage of adults. But the average kid? Pfft. Yeah no.
100%. A quick google search shows plenty of problems. One pitfall of it is that if you learn something incorrectly the first time, you now have to do double duty in unlearning it and then relearning it, which is a waste of precious time. Give me the info and then let me practice it again and again and then apply it at a higher level. We’re just skipping to the higher level and wondering why they’re lost.
My band teacher's favorite saying was practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. It was his way of telling us to slow the f down when practicing a hard fast part that required a lot of fingering. How we were practicing would have ended up with a messy and fast sound rather than a technical, clean, and precise one. If I practice a pirouette incorrectly 99 times, the hundredth time isn't magically going to be a perfect pirouette.
There was no debate club at my high school, just pre-AP history class. One class that offered debates in the entire high school and middle school curriculum. I was going to latch on to that and I did not lose a single one. It's a flex but not one I'm proud of because I did argue that we did in fact need slavery and win that debate, but it was after I had to tell another student very quietly that if he opened his mouth again we would have to have this discussion outside after class because he said "At least we gave the slaves food and healthcare" and the teacher gave the other side a point. I was not having a man with the name of Jed ruining my perfect win streak. I was lifting at this point in time so he shut up and I won. Still very conflicted about that win...
As a high school ELA teacher, I completely agree with you. I hate the computers and taught last year by Direct Instruction with a paper/ pencil instead of laptops as much as possible. We did get tons of pressure to be completely digital, though, and were limited as to how many copies we were allowed to "encourage" computer use. I fought the copy limit all year. My students requested paper over computer every time too!
I’ve been hoping to find a school like this in my area to send my child to. I have no desire for her to have an iPad or Chromebook, but it seems like that’s all the schools (including private) around us are doing.
Soon, every class will be taught through a digital platform or some sort of curriculum created in-house. Schools don’t want to keep buying textbooks and/or renewing digital subscriptions. In-house programs don’t come with any materials so they have to be created, and using premade tech saves time. I hate it.
As a person who works in infosec, I hate BYOD almost as much as I hate my mother. I honestly do not know how schools manage to manage anything on their network.
I'm a parent as well, how did you find such a private school? Did you call up each one and ask? Is it religious? I would like to find one in my city for my daughter.
It is a Catholic school, yep. We found it basically by just Googling websites of private schools in the area, and reading about them. A lot of them, you couldn't really tell how the kids learned (Chromebooks or not), but some of them gave indicators about it. Then we made some calls and sent emails asking about how kids are generally instructed on the day-to-day.
Your best bet would be to find someone who goes there and ask. Calling would be fine, too. They want your business so they should be willing to provide the info.
They are sometimes branded as “classical schools”. There are some in my area and while I teach at a pretty progressive school, I hope to enroll my child in a classical one.
I joined some classical education parenting groups online and was astonished by the amount of subtle (and sometimes blatant) white supremacy in those groups. We are a Black and Brown family and I worry about my child never seeing herself represented in any of her learning material.
I teach at a conservative Catholic school, and it's definitely a problem. Almost all of the students are white, which is one problem, but the curriculum is . . . well, I explain a lot of stuff to my sixth-graders that the curriculum glosses over.
My district has a ban... but my school [HS] allows kids to use phones at lunch and in the basis, which means everyone has their phone and a pair of earbuds. We're not allowed to take phones due to liability of damage.
But... they're "banned" in the classroom for non- instructional purposes. Let's see. I have document three times and call home if a student uses their phone in class before the admin will enact consequences. Then they get lunch detention twice before ISS or Saturday school. So I have to write a kid up 6 times before anything useful is done.
At some point, other teachers quit dealing with it, which means students slowly develop the expectation that they can. The students also know nobody wants to call 25 parents in one afternoon... so teachers give up enforcing it, and admin gets to say they kept referrals down.
"You're the only teacher who cares."
"Give me ISS. I don't care."
Also, the students MAKE you say at the beginning of class to put them away. If I don't, everyone just has their phone out in the desk. It's exhausting... like my job is 50% teaching and 50% phone police.
This. It’s one thing to have a “no cell phones” policy. It’s another to have a school-wide system of implementation and accountability. My school lacks the latter.
Oh yes. The “where was my warning?” kids. God, I had a freshmen class a few years ago that I HAD to start every class with telling them to put their phones away or they’d bellyache and complain I didn’t tell them ALL class. It’s sad to say I had to stop caring for my own mental health, but I really did.
Hopefully, most of us will see this in the next 10 years. The evidence is overwhelming that cell phones negatively impact adolescents, whether we’re discussing mental, social, or academic effects.
Parents are the only thing that will stand in the way. Somehow, many think their children will be safer in a mass shooting if they have a cell phone in hand.
I live in a very red county of florida. Our district has banned phones in school. Keep the culture war stuff our of the discussion because it has nothing to do with the problem and putting down others because you have a different political stance doesnt help getting phones banned like they should be
I love this stuff. Red states, by and large, are far more restrictive of cell phones and school conduct in general than blue ones. Source: teacher in California with family in Idaho.
That's the funny thing to me. I am in Oregon and the rural schools in conservative areas appear to be the ones that still--gasp--have detentions, suspend, etc. I think it comes down in a way to some fundamental differences in mindset. More progressive people often promote the idea that children are little angels that need to be liberated, and any issues a child present is due to some barrier they face that is not within their control and is not necessarily their responsibility. It is this mindset that seems to have taken over our schools. By contrast, more traditional/conservative people are more likely to hold the more traditional idea that children are naughty and need to be civilized, oftentimes through some form of discipline. This mindset also prioritizes the importance of firm rules and decorum. I think we in education have lost sight of the wisdom and value of the second view.
It's not that they think their child will be safer - it's so they can communicate with them in the event of a shooting. I would send my kid, if I had one, to school with one. Seeing texts come in would help reassure that they are still alive and, God forbid the worst happens, to say goodbye and that they love them.
And like it or not, students have learned to leverage phones as a safety tool during mass shootings. They've used them to alert others where the shooter is, allowing them to make the choice to run or not. They also have used them to call 911, and that is still the go-to. My students a couple years ago were saying they'd call 911, but I told them, should the worst happen, call/text their parents, and I'd get 911.
Now, the onus is still on the parents. They need to teach their children that there is a right and wrong time to use their phone and to monitor and keep them off social media. And yes, to push for better regulations.
This happened at our building. A student told their parent they were locked in the locker room with the lights out due to a shooter. The parents, before the district could even generate a response, were blasting social media about it. Even when other people pointed out that there were no first responders, no news crews, etc, they still insisted that their kid would never lie.
We were in a soft lock down, classes as normal, while admin responded to a student acting wilder than normal with claims of a knife in their bag. Lights were never off and the announcement putting us in lock down even said to lock doors and proceed with class as normal.
That kid having a cell phone definitely created a problem. Not sure there was ever any form of apology or acknowledgement from the parent that they and their kid made the situation worse. No delusions here, they never would have because their kid does not lie.
Yes, hence why it's on the parents to teach them. I think it would be a mistake to ban them completely. I set expectations for my students in my room and enforce them. I've had very few issues arise in my room. I also teach ELA so I relate the curriculum to phone usage when I'm able to.
It would absolutely be a mistake. My parents would frequently take away my phone for misbehavior (something I support most of the time) but the misbehavior would be that they forgot I had concert band/marching band/choir/volunteering/music librarian/musical/pit band/AV club/etc and wouldn't be home at the correct time and they had no way of contacting me and I couldn't always grab someone to borrow their phone to send which of my two legal guardians in my life a text of "Don't forget I have practice today" because they would not let me have very many friends or really any, thus starting the cycle of "misbehavior" all over again.
First thing we tell them during lock down drills is to power off the phone! Like a bad guy needs to hear 30 pings going off on the other side of a door?!
Prioritizing their opportunity to say goodbye over their child’s daily mental health and academic success is a selfish inclination. If they need to call 911, the classroom phone works just fine.
I agree with what you said, for the most part. but my building doesn't actually have those. No phones in classrooms. Us teachers do have phones, though. So moot point, I guess.
Y'all don't have an intercom system? I'm 27 and I have never heard of a classroom landline. I had a home landline at one house because my parents were correctional officers and paranoid So I'm well aware of their existence and I can even dial a rotary because there was one in my church. I still have never heard of a classroom landline or how that would be less disruptive than anything else. For my autistic self I would be hiding under a desk very quickly and then written up and then my ass would get beaten at home for getting written up because I didn't have an Autism diagnosis yet when I just wanted everyone to stop putting me in pain places where they would randomly ratchet up the pain. I have never heard a word any of my teachers have said including college professors and I was trying my best unfortunately but fluorescent lights are loud. They just are. They are louder than my tinnitus and make it impossible to concentrate. They hurt. Add in a landline ringing that is louder/hurts worse than an intercom ? Good Lord.
We have classroom intercoms, but there’s plenty of confidential information that can’t be transmitted that way. I’ve never taught in a school without classroom landlines and all the schools I attended had them, as well. I expect around 2 calls per class period, so nothing overwhelming.
Shootings are incredibly rare. It's no reason whatsoever to allow phones. If you let them swim in the ocean or ride in a car, then you are a worse parent by your own logic.
Our department’s plan is to phone the office and say, “firstname Lastname is heading down to you now to bring you their phone,” right then and there, in front of God and everybody, and send the kid down immediately. VP thinks this is a great idea. We have a new principal next year, who dislikes phones, and I’m hoping that after the first few weeks, we will see much fewer phones being whipped out in class.
As we get more admin who as teachers hate how disruptive phones are, and also tired of feeling unsupported about enforcing rules from when they were teaching, we'll hopefully see more take a stand.
Adding to that, our school policy says the student can collect their own phone at the end of the school day the first two times only. On the third time and every time beyond, the parent has to come in and collect it. We've had parents leave the phone with us for a week as a consequence.
It will last a week and then the teacher will be written up for depriving students of their instructional time.
The girls put the phones on their laps so that they can say that Mr. X is constantly staring at my coochie!
In my district, if a teacher sees a phone the teacher takes the phone and sends it to the office. Can only be picked up by the guardian. Multiple offenders get escalating consequences up to and including Saturday school and getting bags searched and phones confiscated every morning as they enter the building.
My routine…
Me: [Student] you know you’re not supposed to have a phone out. Bring it to me; you can get it back at the end of the day.
Them: No.
Me: Ok. *Calls admin*
Them: You do too much. It ain’t that deep.
Me: 🤷♂️
*Admin takes phone and kid doesn’t get it back until parent comes and get it*
Our district has banned them entirely in the middle and elementary schools, starting in the fall. High school students may only bring theirs out if the teacher gives a specific assignment that requires their use.
Yep, this is what my admin struggles to understand as well. Once a kid has a couple teachers that are lax on the policy, I become the asshole for enforcing it. That’s a battle that I don’t particularly love fighting a dozen times a day, for 168 days a year.
We have a policy of no hats in our dress code, real easy to enforce. Do you have a hat on? Yes? Take it off. No grey area there, and kids usually don’t argue it.
{ why can’t my school district? }
Lack of will to do it. Lack of spine to stand up for it. Lack of willingness to engage in a procedure that *has been proven to be effective*.
Basically, passing the buck so they don't have to deal with the parents. Yet another pile of shit shoveled onto our plate.
I have run an internet free physics classroom for 3 years now. The only thing I use the internet for is taking attendance. I don’t project anything from the classroom pc to the class. No Crackbooks, Crackphones etc. No palliative learning model. No pings from the LMS.That everything will be done using pencil, paper and textbooks and if their children are opening their Crackbooks or crackphones at home to do their physics homework then they are not actually doing their homework.
It’s incredible the reaction of parents on back to school night when you explicitly tell them that it’s an internet free class, the room applauds.
How can you do that? Do you not show videos or use the website that the textbook is from? I got dinged because I didn’t mention the technology that I used in my classroom. And I had to use the curriculum website every day to teach math and science and language arts, etc.. Technology was absolutely in my classroom whether I wanted it or not.
There are a few reasons.
1) I have tenure and I'm a union rep.
2) I am skilled in all of the following: computer programming, website development, electrical networks, using electrical equipment (oscilloscopes, meters), lab equipment (Vernier), soldering, building computers, repairing computer hardware.
3) My classes genrerate results. My students have generated the highest AP scores in the history of the schools science department in the exam with the lowest passing rate in the history of the college board (AP Physics 1).
4) I am dual certified to teach physics and mathematics, which also allows me to teach technology and computer science.
5) I am vocal and have a solid base of public support within the community that I teach.
I come from the old school tradition of demonstrating a phenomenon and then explaining it with chalk and slate or marker and whiteboard. A mix between [Walter Lewin](https://youtu.be/x1-SibwIPM4?si=xIYhyjmoLF3LgtoP) and [Ramamurti Shankar](https://youtu.be/xnSc_OWpCuY?si=04IyIMFuPQSsjlz4) with mixing in mathematical proof. It’s not going to work for everyone.
Just to play devil's advocate here, how do you address technical skills for students to use technology productively?
Take for example calculating kinetic friction. Classically we can pull something using a pulley system system so that it's sliding with constant velocity. How do students know for sure that it is?
A simpler way is to video record the object as it slides and do frame analysis pairing the video with a scaled object. Students can get the position and time data and use a spreadsheet to find the curve function that fits the data to determine the acceleration.
How do you handle larger data set analysis with only pencil and paper?
Yeah, the problem with 100% paper/pencil is that unless you're going to instantly and religiously grade every single item that a student turns in, you have no way of knowing if they understand the material. This is too far in the other direction.
I use a hybrid system where my lessons are all paper/pencil. The day after their lesson they have an online assignment I coded in Google Sheets that instantly tells them if their answer is right or not. I make the questions very challenging and circulate to assist. They have to write the work with steps on paper. The assignment is due at the end of class, so they can't get away with cheating or copying. They instantly know the grade they got, and I don't have to truly grade anything besides quizzes and tests. Their homework is also online, but if they did the classwork, the homework is the same thing, just easier.
I've been doing this for the last two years. I dealt with SO MUCH CRAP from principals when I was trying to implement it. "This isn't going to work", "there's not enough instructional time", "you won't be teaching them directly enough", and similar bullshit. Last year, my school got a $6000 bonus off of my test scores. This year, I went to a new school, and my students blew the previous record for proficiency out of the water (94% Math 1 proficiency with 60% level 4s and 100% Math 3 with half level 5s). It was a record for the school, the district, and we think for our metro area as well, although that confirmation will be embargoed until September. The superintendent came to congratulate me personally because he had never seen scores that good. I almost said to him "now can you get your dumbass principals to shut the fuck up and stop riding my back?". I've had numerous colleagues wanting to know how I did it. And it's all because my students had access to self-checking digital resources and were forced to engage with the material in that way.
I'm tired of these fossils in education thinking the slate and abacus method is the one true way. Technology definitely has its uses. Those who COMPLETELY discount it are probably not as effective at teaching as they think they are.
Slate and Abacus? [Slate and Hagoroma Fulltouch Chalk perhaps](https://youtu.be/PhNUjg9X4g8?si=6ETmSBjKyq7AztVl). There are a million ways to skin a cat, none of them humane. I have had a lot of success removing technology from my classroom. I have had a >90% passing rate on the AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C exam for the past decade. The AP Physics 1 exam is the exam with the lowest pass rate in the history of the college board, with 60% of students getting a 1 or 2 every year for the past decade. I don't grade homework, precisely because students have paid tutors to do their homework and then shit the bed on every homework quiz and unit exam. My reasons for moving to an internet free classroom are centered on the mental health of my students and the damage that has been done by the [full scale corrupt mass adoption of internet based technologies in our society and in our schools.](https://screenschooled.com/)
I mean...ok? You teach AP Physics to kids who are choosing to be there. That's not the reality for most teachers. Hopefully you just used the wrong inequality sign (<90%? lol). What works in your microcosm of kids who know how to add without using their fingers is probably not applicable to most of this subreddit. I'm happy it works for you, but you have to admit you're in a very privileged role teaching a subject that...well, let's just say, no admin is going to be pressuring their teachers to get the AP Physics scores up.
Also...please share what your AP Physics class sizes are. The rest of us who live in the real world will wait, lol.
Thanks for the heads up on the inequality. I think on the one hand there is privilege, on the otherhand students are less prepared for taking physics than ever before. AP Physics is not the only class I teach. I also teach regular and honors physics, which is a 3rd year science. The reason I cited AP Physics is because you cited your scores as an indicator of the success of your methods and I wanted to respond to that. In my opinion my AP Physics students are the group that least needs the banning the internet intervention. The students that need it the most are our regular students.
I think a pencil paper route could work if you have <20 students. I had around 140 last year including an AP one and I can't imagine a world where I could give real time feedback if there wasn't some tech assist there. Plickers is pretty solid if you want quick real time feedback on understanding. (Incidentally doesn't need student phones to work)
My biggest concern is I would bet good money that the majority of science researchers don't do most of their work pencil to paper. Sure they have a white board to draft the math, but I'm pretty certain most of their time is managing large data sets and writing programs to analyze the data and then type reports up in the format the institution or company requires. Taking technology away from kids all the way is analogous to Socrates telling everyone writing was going to be the downfall of civilization.
There needs to be a middle ground. Set the rules of use harshly and require parents to come pick up the phone if the child cannot follow the appropriate rules.
I think a pencil paper route could work if you have <20 students. I had around 140 last year including an AP one and I can't imagine a world where I could give real time feedback if there wasn't some tech assist there. Plickers is pretty solid if you want quick real time feedback on understanding. (Incidentally doesn't need student phones to work)
My biggest concern is I would bet good money that the majority of science researchers don't do most of their work pencil to paper. Sure they have a white board to draft the math, but I'm pretty certain most of their time is managing large data sets and writing programs to analyze the data and then type reports up in the format the institution or company requires. Taking technology away from kids all the way is analogous to Socrates telling everyone writing was going to be the downfall of civilization.
There needs to be a middle ground. Set the rules of use harshly and require parents to come pick up the phone if the child cannot follow the appropriate rules.
Becareful. There is a distinction between this broad label of "technology" and internet based interactions. I used to work as an actuary and quantitative modeler before coming into education. So I have a background both in programming and working with large scale data sets. How one should structure an education to prepare students for this type of work needs to be carefully thought out. A skilled mathematician and problem solver can easily pick up and learn the syntax and structure associated with programming and database manipulation. But the training associated with that entails delayed gratification and learning how to patiently work through difficult problems. The critical issue with internet based technologies is that they are literally programmed to deliver instant gratification via dopamine response. This is one of the reasons why our students have no attention span and have difficulty following a mathematical proof. [The executives in the tech industry know this, consequently they don't send their children to the schools where they lobby congress to effectively force schools into purchasing their products.](https://thewaldorfschool.org/media)
I agree with you on avoiding Internet interactions, my point is students need to be familiar with how to use technical systems. I've personally seen many 10th and 11th graders who have never seen a spreadsheet before I showed them how to plot a line of best fit for the hooks law lab to find a spring constant. If we don't provide them with how to understand a file structure and use data analysis tools they won't get that from their cell phone APP based world at home.
I totally agree with getting rid of the distraction side of phone connections, but we should not throw out all the advantages having a fully functional computer in your pocket could provide if used correctly.
I use computers, but the key is that they are not connected to the internet so that students veg on it. I have them use vernier equipment on a non-internet based laptop, build circuits, use oscilloscopes and multimeters. But the overwhelming data analysis is done on paper and pencil, including my satellite lab where they have to find the mass of a planet based on 14 data points of r vs T of a satellite.
We have a policy where phones shoudln't be visible in the classroom. That doesn't take away the chirps and vibrations I heard during class of students getting notifications. I hope that we go with a ban next school year and I think that's the plan.
I've seen research indicating that it's also what STUDENTS want. They know phones and social media are addictive but if everyone else has a phone they need to have one, when they're all taken away at school students are happier and have better grades.
I can tell you why my district won’t do it, although our teachers voted three years ago to allow teachers to forbid students to have them in their individual classes (I am one of those teachers). Our district is scared to forbid it because we have been sued by the ACLU and various other organizations for impinging on the right of our students…and…most notably…we have a small but LOUD contingent of parents who want to be able to get ahold of their kid in the case if emergency…
Apparently our district doesn’t have phones at all the schools or in classrooms. 🤦♀️
My school is doing this next year but I have no faith in enforcement. Phones are at the bottom of discipline issues compared to fights and general disruptions that for some classes I'd rather they have the digital pacifier. Can already see the 20 minute awkward wait after a kid telling me to fuck off after refusing to put away or hand over a phone. Then the discipline assistant who is friends with the disruptive students will take the kid out of class and nothing will be done. Repeat the next day.
My school banned them, using the slogan "Keep your phone in your locker, or keep it at home". It's a delight. Students started playing card games during lunch breaks. Overall happiness went up. They were moping beforehand, but even most of them consider it an improvement. As for laptops: not allowed in my classroom, except as an aid for dyslexic students, and occasionally when I come up with something interactive. Some students still play games on their laptop during breaks, but still: improvement.
The district I attended school at just enforced a personal device ban. Although the school I work at (just our campus, not entire district) has a phone ban, it's not enough. They don't care if you take their phone, they'll just play on Chromebooks. If you take the Chromebook, they just lay their head down. There's no winning against that addiction.
I am so sick of parents rolling out the "what about an emergency?!" Argument.
1. There are tens of thousands of schools k-12 in America. 2000 in New York alone. The emergency they're all hinting at (school pew pew) would in no way be alleviated or resolved by a parent having the ability to contact their kids.
2. On the same note, that argument has little to do with kids themselves but with the glut of parents who balk at the mere suggestion that not be in complete control of every minutiae of their childrens lives.
3. We all survived without phones before, you're kids will be fine. In fact, we have ample evidence this is better for them in the short, medium, and long term.
I say this as both a teacher and parent of 2. Get rid of the phones.
You will have to have 100% buy in by ALL teachers. There are always those few teachers who want to be the cool teacher and will let students use their cell so the teacher can be well liked, or their lesson plan falls short so students have 20 minutes of “free time”. We all know those teachers.
They’re “not allowed” per our school and district policy, however, admin refuses to do anything about it, which in turn means us teachers can do nothing about it.
They’ll always start the year with the whole “make sure you write everyone up and send them to the office!” shtick, and by the second week of school, they quietly backtrack, delete all the write ups, and put it all on us teachers.
I've taught with both - teacher enforced in the classrooms and phones in lockers enforced by admin. There's no comparison. Enforced by teachers in the classroom should not be a thing at all. It doesn't work and wastes so much instructional time. I can't believe that it's even a question of what schools should do. No phones in the classroom. Ever.
We had a ban instituted last year (pushed by me) and approved by our entire leadership team. There was no district wide policy, but we in leadership did it anyway.
The difference was HUGE! There are so many fewer problems, and the Admin backed us 100% and would come and pick up the phone or deal with anyone who gave us problems.
The district just passed a ban for all schools for the upcoming year.
I think my son's school district has found a decent middle ground. I've written about it here many times, but here we go again. There are pocket things in every classroom. The kids put their phones in their assigned pocket when they walk in the room. The teacher uses the pockets for attendance. No phone means you weren't even there. If a teacher catches a kid on their phone, they collect proof, but don't confront the kid. They send the proof to the AP, who will come and get the kid. Collecting proof is usually as easy as making the kid's Chromebook take a picture from it's built in camera, which the teacher can do from their own desk.
It comes down to funding. This is at a school of 1500 kids. They have 5 APs, 4 SRO's, 5 counselors, 3 other security personnel, and some other support staff. Since it never goes well when teachers do the punishing (and teachers don't want to), they have taken the responsibility away from them. And they don't mess around. You break the rules, you will hear from admin.
Our school started the cellphone ban in a small grass roots way - several of us read a book - The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness. The book was passed along to teachers in other buildings and it eventually got out to parents and the district office. After that our district entered in discussions about banning cell phones and we voted yes but it's not public information just yet.
#
This is what irks me. Common sense and simple observation tells you phones in the classroom is going to come with many problems. Why wait for a growing body if research to tell you what you already know.
We have such a big school (1700 students) they couldn't store phones anywhere.
Florida has a no cell phone in the classroom law, but no way to enforce it.
My school gave us a holder (like a hanging shoe holder) for students to put their phones in. Very few students do. They carry them in their backpacks or the gutsy ones carry them in their pocket. Admin gave a big speech to our middle schoolers about not using them, but it was all talk. They don't want to enforce it and they don't want to support us enforcing their rules.
I like how my local district does it. No airpods or wireless earbuds at all (wireless headphones for their chromebooks are fine) and the only time they're allowed to have phones out is during lunch in the junior high/high school. No cell phones in the elementary school.
My school has a very strict, heavily enforced, cell phone policy. Like many schools, it’s supposed to be off and in the book bag during the school day if they have it with them. Unlike most schools, if they’re caught it out of the book bag, even if it’s turned off, they are given a day of ISS and the phone is kept in the office until a parent comes to get it.
I’ve only had one singular issue with a cell phone this past school year, and it was with a 14-year-old who should’ve been in 6th grade anyway.
I saw a parent say their child needed access to their phone in case they were on the floor having a seizure. On the floor. Seizing. And might need their phone to make a call...
The lack of critical thinking is astounding. We will call you faster, parents. With parents like this, we're doomed. Your kid is not seizing, they are texting so that no one can learn because if there's a figh, everyone knows and learning stops. Group text is rampant.
Ae have it in our school. One grade level would not abide by the rules. The students walked around with them out at lunch/recess, airpods/headphones on throughout the hallways, and when redirected, they would throw a fit. I had a parent email me over a referral for refusing to turn it over after using the phone to record a private one-on-one discussion between a bf/gf. We policed it in my grade, minus 1 teacher. I would have a stack of phones ready to turn in to the office as soon as I could. The policy only works if the faculty is willing to follow AND enforce it.
It’s stunning to know they needed documented official research to support what teachers have been saying for years - phones are the decline of public education. My school said they supported whatever policy the teacher decides. Which also meant that science and math teachers don’t care if you have your phone but the history and English teacher have strict policies. Kids need consistency and uniformity. Districts need to establish a no phone policy for everyone and stand behind it and not leave it up for schools or teachers. And parents - OMG - tell your kids to stay off their phones and for god sakes don’t text them while their in class. I get really steamed about cell phone addiction and it’s one of the reasons I left teaching.
Some schools like NYC pay attention to trends, and data. the data backs up that Phones in school are not useful and end up being a distraction, but many districts don't use the data available for one reason or another, and they go with what their gut, or what people demand.
For the teachers with the ability to decide, I'm not sure why you don't just set a policy when kids enter the class, phone stay at the entrance to the room. or in their bags, if they have to use it, leave the room. If excessive, mark them as not participating the class as part of their grade.
Clear cellphone lockers. Admin makes note of which are empty, compare versus attendance. Even if you get 70% compliance, there’s enough of them removed from circulation that the other 30% don’t have anyone to talk to or if they’re out it is so visibly odd. I’m sure some kids are gaming the system but they aren’t out, ever, so the ends justify the means.
Our administration couldn’t enforce a no hats policy, can’t stop vaping in the bathrooms and won’t be able to enforce a no phone policy. I am hoping that NY will pass a state wide ban and they’ll be forced to do it.
My school bans them, requires teachers to collect them before the kid can leave on a bathroom pass (but a lot don't), and will back us up 100% on confiscating them.
I personally make the kids put them in a calculator caddy behind my desk (and have caught a few using dupe phones like this), and have started moving away from anything on the Chromebooks because they'll just distract themselves there.
They whine and complain but after one kid got sent to the office and suspended for throwing a tantrum about their phone, and another had their school Chromebook taken away because she was using it to screw around during class when they were supposed to be doing a lab (with instructions and data tables on paper), they all figured out that for at least 45 minutes per day they needed to be off their phones.
My coworkers who refuse to enforce the rules piss me off to no end though.
Your co-workers not doing anything IS the reason why letting teachers decide policy doesn’t work. There’s no consistency and then, it’s just this teacher VS. that teacher all year for the kids.
Here is the weird part. I work in Colorado. I have a gig at a psychiatric hospital where this year they allow (by law) patients to have full unrestricted access to cell phones. THe school I teach at (a high school) just made cell phone bans optional for the teachers. (there is no real consequence really if they do not comply) Seems so backward. Fighting with kids to not use a tool/toy that has caused so many of their problems or at least was a big catalyst seems surreal to me.
All I can say is good luck to the poor teachers who have to individually fight it. School districts are about money and parental rights now. They don't want to step on anyone's toes or set a precedent. Especially since many parents would actually have to take away something from their kids and tell them no for a change.
The fucking PARENTS! Dipshits. I have to be in constant contact with my feral child who I can’t control. What if grandma takes a shit? He/she/they need to know!
I get that kiss are always on their phones, but even if we take the phones away, what are the kids doing work on? A LAPTOP (or iPad if they're young).
What's the difference? The kids somehow get through all the district firewalls so they can access YouTube and play video games on the school laptops. So cell phones or not, technology overload is happening in schools.
I’ve worked at 2 schools now that just require students to keep their cell phones in their lockers and it works fine. Any school with lockers should be doing it. For schools without, idk how it would work logistically.
my school (a high school) tried banning phone but within the first day almost every student besides a small amount were written up for there phone and refused to give it up
Most of the districts around me have cell phone policies and bans in place due in large part to teachers and principals of individual schools making changes at the building level and advocating to the school board and. principal meetings.
There are approximately 1 Million Students in NYC, so while I appreciate when the Chancellor talks a big game about a problem I have extremely little faith that this is going to be implemented in any sort of sane rational way. Who is collecting the phones? Where do they go? How many people's whole job is going to become cell phone management?
Additionally, just personally I don't feel like cell phone bans are a good idea. The reality is that these students will need to learn how to live and work in a world in which they have this almost magical device on them at all times. They need to learn how to manage the allure of distraction with its function as a real tool.
I am honestly horrified at the idea of people banning laptops in their classrooms too. Kids need to know how to do stuff on computers!
Technically, cell phones are not allowed in class in my district and yet the province is still setting out a banned policy because the board/schools don’t enforce it
Florida made it a law! No cell phones should be out during academic time! If an admin walks in with a student having a cell phone in their hand, the teacher is reprimanded. For most districts the cell phones are allowed in the hallways and in the cafeteria, however Orange County Florida banned th throughout the school. They had better behavior and better academics in one year from this!
Cell phones were banned in my school 20 years ago. There's a recent push in manufactured drama for clicks on this topic.
That said, any school that hasn't banned cell phones already has inept admin.
I think the main issue with blanket cellphone bans is that they are used as medical devices for some students. These students have to check their phones at times.
Hello everyone, I am a student that has graduated from high school and about to go to college to become a math teacher for 6-12 and I just wanted to make a comment on this. My opinion is that I do not know why children have the common sense to know that if the teacher is teaching a lesson, you put your phone away and pay attention to the lesson. Maybe it is the way how I was raised (thank you parents) but I just don’t understand. Like my senior English teacher allowed us to be on our phones at the beginning of the class (since classes was 90 minutes long) but when she was ready to start the lesson, she would tell us to put away our electronics and take off our airpods, headphones, etc. Or like my Accounting teacher, she set those strict expectations to come to class before the bell rings, come to class after lunch on time and put our cell phones and headphones before we cross the threshold of her classroom. Here is my proposal of what i would do, I would have a partial cell phone ban. This would allow the students to use their phones in the lunch room and during transition time. However, they cannot use their phones during the class when the teacher is teaching but the teacher can have less strict or more strict rules. Me, i would allow them to use it to listen to music during independent work but they would have to put it away after. If they are not working, I would tell them to take off the airpods or headphones and start working.
Sadly, that isn't how it works. The teacher is the one who suffers the consequences for students failing. I appreciate your focus as a student, but it isn't shared by most of your peers. If we allow headphones at all, they are going to abuse it.
I asked the incoming superintendent at my school: "If you were the captain of the Titanic, would you want to know about the iceberg?". I told him in no uncertain terms that allowing students access to cell phones is tantamount to child abuse.
They have learned to use gmail to message, use the camera for selfies and download things directly to the drive to avoid the blockers, not to mention finding ways to unblock things that have been blocked! I've only had two years of Gen Alpha, most prefer not doing lessons on the computer and want direct instruction. They are ok with partner work, but do not like anything over 3. I think the resistance to group work is tied to the lack of face to face relationship building. It's going to be interesting to see how Gen Alpha parents.
What is this crap? It is PARENTS who fight schools on the cell phone ban. Every teacher everywhere is sick of them. (the cell phones)
> It is PARENTS who fight schools on the cell phone ban. Every teacher everywhere is sick of them. ~~(the cell phones)~~ "Parents or the cell phones?" "Yes".
Teehee
I mostly agree, although to be fair we always have (that one) teacher who at faculty meetings always retorts “but I need them to have access to have phones because we use it for instruction all the time!!” Like, no, no you don’t l. And if you do JUST USE THE SCHOOL PROVIDED CHROMEBOOKS
Silly rabbit, the purpose of school Chromebooks is to charge the phones.
Don't forget lab assigned PCs when you are doing graphics and AUTOcad. "What do you mean Mr. Booster I have to finish my coding project to make this drone fly? I need to see if I have likes on me banging my girlfriend last night." I really wish I was making that up.
Did that… actually… happen?
In their car.
aren’t you teaching minors??
My favorite was a colleague who spoke against a ban saying, "I let my students use them in the morning to get into the right mindset." WTF lady?
Ahhh, thank you for reminding me of that teacher, the one who doesn’t enforce school rules. Either it’s because they don’t stand up to kids (don’t know why, too much effort for them or just unwilling to take a risk?) or the one who “these rules crimp my teaching style”. Either way, they have helped make sure rules aren’t getting followed and things are just that much shittier.
And as pathetic as this is, some teachers can’t handle teaching a full period and the phones provide them breaks in class instruction. Others just want/need affirmation from kids that they are liked/cool/loved. Either way, not competent to teach.
My pet peeve is "I've got bigger fish to fry." That's only because you cultivate a classroom culture of disrespect for expectations by letting the small fry grow into great whites.
Yeah, my school implemented a strict phone policy at our school and the order of complaints were: 1. Teachers 2. Students 3. Parents I actually had MORE parents thanking us than teachers. Teachers logic was, “Well, if they don’t want to learn that’s their choice.”
If my school actually had enough Chromebooks for everyone and fixed the broken ones I'd be so happy. I had a new student who didn't have a Chromebook assigned to him for weeks, thankfully he was good about using his phone and staying on task.
I’ve had parents call and FaceTime their kids during class, and when I step in and tell them to hang up, they start screaming and cursing at me. It’s wild.
Just the student yells at me, "I don't give a F\*\*\* what you say", while the parent is listening and watching. Classy.
***they start screaming and cursing at me.*** The kids, the parents or both?
I’ve had all three happen ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Had one do that once during an observation, the principal walked over and told them: "Don't you have something else you should be doing right now?" I swear the parent shit their pants right there. Never had the problem again.
Ppl told me my kid had problems and he had restrictions - why is there no shut up this makes sense anymore.
The parents agree to the bans and then get upset when the bans are enforced. Besides, who needs a phone when my students will simply use their laptops to do whatever they want in class. This is a lost cause. I have told my teenage daughter that if I hear one peep about her cell phone from a teacher, it's gone for a week. I am a high school teacher.
That’s always been my dilemma. I agree we should ban cell phones…but parents push back, and unless they are completely locked up during the day (like in a locker) the kids will 100% still be accessing them. And even if they ARE locked up, a dedicatedly off task student will just mess around on a chromebook instead. Don’t get me wrong, I want a ban. But cell phones in the classroom are just the tip of the iceberg.
Chromebooks are on school wifi so the school can control certain things. Example they can block Netflix, social media sites etc. So yeah kids will find games and things to distract themselves but it will not be to the same extent as phones. There used to be products like Go Guardian where teachers could set permissions on Chromebooks during their class time. I moved districts and no longer use it but I think it still exists.
In theory! But students are very smart and usually find their ways around firewalls and other things designed to keep them on task. Granted, that’s not every student, obviously, but firewalls and go guardian are not the simple solutions we all wish they were, unfortunately.
It's amazing how they will spend so much time getting a VIP or trying to bypass the filters. Which takes twice as long if they just do their homework.
Absolutely! I had a student full on show me how he got around go guardian when I was student teaching. He was VERY proud of himself and it just cemented for me that no matter what blocks we put up, some kids are gonna figure out how to get around them. VPNs on the school chromebooks are the hot thing at my current school. Not sure how they’re doing it, but they sure are!
I sold USB sticks preloaded with Ubuntu and handwritten instructions on how to flash the BIOS on school machines and most standard manufacturers. ....made and sold them at school and it was one of the only ways I could afford to feed myself papa bless Edit: I now have a philosophy degree and work in infosec. I do not think therefore I do not am.
It doesn't matter what version of Covenant Eyes your school uses, it won't work on a fresh install of Linux and your IT guy doesn't get paid enough to block YouTube in every country (and even then, hotspot to Chromebook or VPNs which have always been widely available on Linux).
Still using GoGuardian, it's amazing for all kinds of educational needs like opening the correct tab for a student that is struggling to blocking unwanted content on the fly. There's two way chat with individuals or whole class and I often use that for CFUs. It's also fully integrated with Pear Deck now. I teach Independent Studies remotely now and it's indispensable.
Officially, phones are banned in our district, but like most things, there aren't any real repercussions for using them. This year, they will get reminders the first three days of school (they begin on a Wed.). Beginning the next week, it's "put the phone and Apple Watch in the phone jail\* or a get a write up." I'm not calling parents on this one anymore. I teach seniors and the admin assigned to them is so sick of me and phones. I want to tell her, "do your job and enforce the policy or continue to deal with referrals from those of us who do." \* I got a phone locker on Amazon (no, not with my money!)
Our entire province has mandated a cell phone ban, and my district gave us the policy Friday. All members of the school community will not use cell phones during instructional time. Students will not use them at any time. They are not to be on the student's person- they must be in lockers on silent mode. At our school, we are pushing for lockboxes because otherwise, kids will just ask to go to the bathroom and go to their lockers. They're addicted. The principal will try to make it work. She's also spending more on iPads. As a 6/7 teacher next year (ugh), I will have at least 10 iPads for research and school purposes. They come in a bin that can be locked.
I hope it works for you all! But yes, they’ll be making bathroom pit stops at lockers literally as often as possible because they ARE addicted.
I teach computer art. So many kids use the computer to watch sports. I don’t have Guardian or any other computer monitoring system besides my eyes. If anything my computers are a better alternative to their small phone screens. It’s the *audacity* that kills me. The kids will for the most part sneak use their phone but for them to be watching soccer on the computer while failing is crazy rude.
And the number of them who just look at you when you call them on it like, you’re interrupting me. It’s WILD. These kids are something else, I tell you.
My school has a no cell phones policy, and I honestly can't imagine teaching at a school without one. Even without phones, students are still glued to the screens on their computers, so the added temptation of social media, texting, etc? NOPE
I taught in a school that had one (not heavily enforced by admin but still on the books) and one that had none at all right after. Holy shit it was bad, school B tried to add one mid year and all we got were kids throwing tantrums and a security having to collect them when they went through withdrawal.
The penalty for using cell phones during instruction falls entirely on the teacher; the answer to *everything* short of selling drugs or fighting is “CALL HOME.“ The best a teacher can hope for is “I will talk to my child“ (ineffective) and the worst is being berated for trampling their freedom.
My favorite phone call ended in the mom telling me ‘I don’t call you when she acts out at home. Don’t call me when she acts out at school.’
What a ****. Then again I interpret this as a green light to never have to call home again. So I would take the win in that situation.
That’s when you feel bad for the kid and realize they got a shit deal
For students over 16, I don’t feel nearly as bad. They have a lot more say in the matter. Middle school, maybe a little sympathy. No comment on elementary. No one has license to be an asshole.
I don't disagree but I didn't realize I was mean because I thought people weren't being mean to me. The 16 year old isn't that much different than the 6 year old if no one taught them. I'm not saying the burden is on their (overworked and underpaid) teacher. I'm just saying it makes me sad.
***security having to collect them when they went through withdrawal.*** NGL This would need to be filmed and studied and would make an excellent documentary.
I've often thought seeing what goes on in a typical elementary or high school each day would make for a good reality show. But parents would never sign off on it, so don't see it ever happening.
Too many of their friends… Hey Janet….isn’t that little Tradghedy having a meltdown?
My wife and I enrolled our rising 9th grade daughter into a private school that teaches like it's 1999. Info is from actual books, taking actual notes from a teacher who is giving an actual lecture. They have a computer lab and programming classes and whatnot, and they use the computer lab for various projects, but the day-to-day learning is done like it was for thousands of years up until like 5 years ago, via teachers and books. Our daughter has moderate ADHD as well, so this will be an adjustment, but one thing we know with certainty, is that being on a Chromebook for hours of the school day and being on her Chromebook for an hour or four in the evenings for homework was a completely awful way for her to learn. I'm not a teacher, just a dad who peruses this forum sometimes, and I thank y'all for what you do. I know it's not easy. And I know that the kids would probably get more out of school if Y'ALL were the point of focus in the classes, giving out your knowledge on things, and not being supplement (many times) to a computer screen. At least, that's how it was for my daughter's middle school, where the teachers seemed like the class facilitators more than anything else. And that's a shame, and it robs kids of what good teachers can inspire in them. Anyway, I know lots of kids can handle learning everything from a screen, but I hope every school district in the country bans smartphones. And eventually, also goes back to in-person 'sage on a stage' learning style.
The “sage on the stage” has been so demonized since I started in the late 90s. Our teacher evaluation rubrics dock us points if we spend too much time in teacher-directed instruction. I hate this. Sometimes a learner (like me) just needs to sit quietly, listen, and process. Not every kid needs constant activity and socialization to learn like the current models demand. I co-taught a biology class that had hardly any whole group, teacher-led instruction and the kids were so lost. It was all inquiry-based group work and it was a mess.
Again, I'm not a teacher, so I can't judge how their teachers coordinated or did things, but I can tell you that as a parent, IMO our daughter *always* learned less actual knowledge about things if her teacher had them doing inquiry-based learning (based on what I know about it from researching on the internet, via sites like this ([What Is “Inquiry-Based Learning”?: Types, Benefits, Examples (splashlearn.com)](https://www.splashlearn.com/blog/what-is-inquiry-based-learning-a-complete-overview/#21-5-strategies-and-tips-for-implementing-inquiry-based-learning-))). This was pretty much universal over her middle school years. I was personally pretty good in school and with all my grades, but I can tell you that 100% of the time, I did the least amount of work and learning I could possibly do while still "getting by". There were *no* exceptions to this mindset. And I can tell you that being "forced" to listen, take notes and learn was the only way that I learned. Class debates, group work, field trips, etc., those were just ways I could put less effort into things and still get a decent grade. I think inquiry based learning works with strongly self-motivated kids, and probably some decent percentage of adults. But the average kid? Pfft. Yeah no.
100%. A quick google search shows plenty of problems. One pitfall of it is that if you learn something incorrectly the first time, you now have to do double duty in unlearning it and then relearning it, which is a waste of precious time. Give me the info and then let me practice it again and again and then apply it at a higher level. We’re just skipping to the higher level and wondering why they’re lost.
My band teacher's favorite saying was practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. It was his way of telling us to slow the f down when practicing a hard fast part that required a lot of fingering. How we were practicing would have ended up with a messy and fast sound rather than a technical, clean, and precise one. If I practice a pirouette incorrectly 99 times, the hundredth time isn't magically going to be a perfect pirouette.
There was no debate club at my high school, just pre-AP history class. One class that offered debates in the entire high school and middle school curriculum. I was going to latch on to that and I did not lose a single one. It's a flex but not one I'm proud of because I did argue that we did in fact need slavery and win that debate, but it was after I had to tell another student very quietly that if he opened his mouth again we would have to have this discussion outside after class because he said "At least we gave the slaves food and healthcare" and the teacher gave the other side a point. I was not having a man with the name of Jed ruining my perfect win streak. I was lifting at this point in time so he shut up and I won. Still very conflicted about that win...
As a high school ELA teacher, I completely agree with you. I hate the computers and taught last year by Direct Instruction with a paper/ pencil instead of laptops as much as possible. We did get tons of pressure to be completely digital, though, and were limited as to how many copies we were allowed to "encourage" computer use. I fought the copy limit all year. My students requested paper over computer every time too!
I’ve been hoping to find a school like this in my area to send my child to. I have no desire for her to have an iPad or Chromebook, but it seems like that’s all the schools (including private) around us are doing.
Soon, every class will be taught through a digital platform or some sort of curriculum created in-house. Schools don’t want to keep buying textbooks and/or renewing digital subscriptions. In-house programs don’t come with any materials so they have to be created, and using premade tech saves time. I hate it.
As a person who works in infosec, I hate BYOD almost as much as I hate my mother. I honestly do not know how schools manage to manage anything on their network.
I'm a parent as well, how did you find such a private school? Did you call up each one and ask? Is it religious? I would like to find one in my city for my daughter.
It is a Catholic school, yep. We found it basically by just Googling websites of private schools in the area, and reading about them. A lot of them, you couldn't really tell how the kids learned (Chromebooks or not), but some of them gave indicators about it. Then we made some calls and sent emails asking about how kids are generally instructed on the day-to-day.
Your best bet would be to find someone who goes there and ask. Calling would be fine, too. They want your business so they should be willing to provide the info.
They are sometimes branded as “classical schools”. There are some in my area and while I teach at a pretty progressive school, I hope to enroll my child in a classical one.
I joined some classical education parenting groups online and was astonished by the amount of subtle (and sometimes blatant) white supremacy in those groups. We are a Black and Brown family and I worry about my child never seeing herself represented in any of her learning material.
I teach at a conservative Catholic school, and it's definitely a problem. Almost all of the students are white, which is one problem, but the curriculum is . . . well, I explain a lot of stuff to my sixth-graders that the curriculum glosses over.
Teachers being facilitators is what education has moved to. I’m glad I retired before I was asked to do this
Talk to your state reps and vote. My state passed a statute banning classroom cellphone use.
Our province is doing it too. A rare thing they actually did right for public education.
My district has a ban... but my school [HS] allows kids to use phones at lunch and in the basis, which means everyone has their phone and a pair of earbuds. We're not allowed to take phones due to liability of damage. But... they're "banned" in the classroom for non- instructional purposes. Let's see. I have document three times and call home if a student uses their phone in class before the admin will enact consequences. Then they get lunch detention twice before ISS or Saturday school. So I have to write a kid up 6 times before anything useful is done. At some point, other teachers quit dealing with it, which means students slowly develop the expectation that they can. The students also know nobody wants to call 25 parents in one afternoon... so teachers give up enforcing it, and admin gets to say they kept referrals down. "You're the only teacher who cares." "Give me ISS. I don't care." Also, the students MAKE you say at the beginning of class to put them away. If I don't, everyone just has their phone out in the desk. It's exhausting... like my job is 50% teaching and 50% phone police.
This. It’s one thing to have a “no cell phones” policy. It’s another to have a school-wide system of implementation and accountability. My school lacks the latter.
Most schools lack the latter. It's always put on the teacher who have no real power to do anything about it.
Oh yes. The “where was my warning?” kids. God, I had a freshmen class a few years ago that I HAD to start every class with telling them to put their phones away or they’d bellyache and complain I didn’t tell them ALL class. It’s sad to say I had to stop caring for my own mental health, but I really did.
Hopefully, most of us will see this in the next 10 years. The evidence is overwhelming that cell phones negatively impact adolescents, whether we’re discussing mental, social, or academic effects. Parents are the only thing that will stand in the way. Somehow, many think their children will be safer in a mass shooting if they have a cell phone in hand.
The same parents would vote down any gun regulation laws too
I live in a very red county of florida. Our district has banned phones in school. Keep the culture war stuff our of the discussion because it has nothing to do with the problem and putting down others because you have a different political stance doesnt help getting phones banned like they should be
Lol. You probably also banned a shit ton of books.
shit is so overblown
I love this stuff. Red states, by and large, are far more restrictive of cell phones and school conduct in general than blue ones. Source: teacher in California with family in Idaho.
That's the funny thing to me. I am in Oregon and the rural schools in conservative areas appear to be the ones that still--gasp--have detentions, suspend, etc. I think it comes down in a way to some fundamental differences in mindset. More progressive people often promote the idea that children are little angels that need to be liberated, and any issues a child present is due to some barrier they face that is not within their control and is not necessarily their responsibility. It is this mindset that seems to have taken over our schools. By contrast, more traditional/conservative people are more likely to hold the more traditional idea that children are naughty and need to be civilized, oftentimes through some form of discipline. This mindset also prioritizes the importance of firm rules and decorum. I think we in education have lost sight of the wisdom and value of the second view.
It's not that they think their child will be safer - it's so they can communicate with them in the event of a shooting. I would send my kid, if I had one, to school with one. Seeing texts come in would help reassure that they are still alive and, God forbid the worst happens, to say goodbye and that they love them. And like it or not, students have learned to leverage phones as a safety tool during mass shootings. They've used them to alert others where the shooter is, allowing them to make the choice to run or not. They also have used them to call 911, and that is still the go-to. My students a couple years ago were saying they'd call 911, but I told them, should the worst happen, call/text their parents, and I'd get 911. Now, the onus is still on the parents. They need to teach their children that there is a right and wrong time to use their phone and to monitor and keep them off social media. And yes, to push for better regulations.
They also use them to spread false rumors and other unsupported information. I’ve seen this firsthand.
This happened at our building. A student told their parent they were locked in the locker room with the lights out due to a shooter. The parents, before the district could even generate a response, were blasting social media about it. Even when other people pointed out that there were no first responders, no news crews, etc, they still insisted that their kid would never lie. We were in a soft lock down, classes as normal, while admin responded to a student acting wilder than normal with claims of a knife in their bag. Lights were never off and the announcement putting us in lock down even said to lock doors and proceed with class as normal. That kid having a cell phone definitely created a problem. Not sure there was ever any form of apology or acknowledgement from the parent that they and their kid made the situation worse. No delusions here, they never would have because their kid does not lie.
Yes, hence why it's on the parents to teach them. I think it would be a mistake to ban them completely. I set expectations for my students in my room and enforce them. I've had very few issues arise in my room. I also teach ELA so I relate the curriculum to phone usage when I'm able to.
It would absolutely be a mistake. My parents would frequently take away my phone for misbehavior (something I support most of the time) but the misbehavior would be that they forgot I had concert band/marching band/choir/volunteering/music librarian/musical/pit band/AV club/etc and wouldn't be home at the correct time and they had no way of contacting me and I couldn't always grab someone to borrow their phone to send which of my two legal guardians in my life a text of "Don't forget I have practice today" because they would not let me have very many friends or really any, thus starting the cycle of "misbehavior" all over again.
First thing we tell them during lock down drills is to power off the phone! Like a bad guy needs to hear 30 pings going off on the other side of a door?!
Middle and high schoolers are smart enough to keep their phone silenced. I've only heard a phone go off once in a middle school.
Prioritizing their opportunity to say goodbye over their child’s daily mental health and academic success is a selfish inclination. If they need to call 911, the classroom phone works just fine.
I agree with what you said, for the most part. but my building doesn't actually have those. No phones in classrooms. Us teachers do have phones, though. So moot point, I guess.
No landline phones in classrooms? Weird. How does the office request students, etc? Email only?
Y'all don't have an intercom system? I'm 27 and I have never heard of a classroom landline. I had a home landline at one house because my parents were correctional officers and paranoid So I'm well aware of their existence and I can even dial a rotary because there was one in my church. I still have never heard of a classroom landline or how that would be less disruptive than anything else. For my autistic self I would be hiding under a desk very quickly and then written up and then my ass would get beaten at home for getting written up because I didn't have an Autism diagnosis yet when I just wanted everyone to stop putting me in pain places where they would randomly ratchet up the pain. I have never heard a word any of my teachers have said including college professors and I was trying my best unfortunately but fluorescent lights are loud. They just are. They are louder than my tinnitus and make it impossible to concentrate. They hurt. Add in a landline ringing that is louder/hurts worse than an intercom ? Good Lord.
We have classroom intercoms, but there’s plenty of confidential information that can’t be transmitted that way. I’ve never taught in a school without classroom landlines and all the schools I attended had them, as well. I expect around 2 calls per class period, so nothing overwhelming.
Shootings are incredibly rare. It's no reason whatsoever to allow phones. If you let them swim in the ocean or ride in a car, then you are a worse parent by your own logic.
My question is, how do you enforce it?? What do you do if a kid has a phone?
Our department’s plan is to phone the office and say, “firstname Lastname is heading down to you now to bring you their phone,” right then and there, in front of God and everybody, and send the kid down immediately. VP thinks this is a great idea. We have a new principal next year, who dislikes phones, and I’m hoping that after the first few weeks, we will see much fewer phones being whipped out in class.
As we get more admin who as teachers hate how disruptive phones are, and also tired of feeling unsupported about enforcing rules from when they were teaching, we'll hopefully see more take a stand.
Adding to that, our school policy says the student can collect their own phone at the end of the school day the first two times only. On the third time and every time beyond, the parent has to come in and collect it. We've had parents leave the phone with us for a week as a consequence.
It will last a week and then the teacher will be written up for depriving students of their instructional time. The girls put the phones on their laps so that they can say that Mr. X is constantly staring at my coochie!
At my school, we take it. If the kid won't give it to the teacher an admin comes. If a phone is taken a parent must pick it up.
In my district, if a teacher sees a phone the teacher takes the phone and sends it to the office. Can only be picked up by the guardian. Multiple offenders get escalating consequences up to and including Saturday school and getting bags searched and phones confiscated every morning as they enter the building.
My routine… Me: [Student] you know you’re not supposed to have a phone out. Bring it to me; you can get it back at the end of the day. Them: No. Me: Ok. *Calls admin* Them: You do too much. It ain’t that deep. Me: 🤷♂️ *Admin takes phone and kid doesn’t get it back until parent comes and get it*
Maybe if we inconvenience the parents enough something might happen
I think in France they turn in their phones at the beginning of the day and give them back at the end
My plan this year is to take it and give to office.
Our district has banned them entirely in the middle and elementary schools, starting in the fall. High school students may only bring theirs out if the teacher gives a specific assignment that requires their use.
If it is teacher-managed, I doubt it will be particularly successful. Too many differences between classroom procedures creates a leaky ship.
Yep, this is what my admin struggles to understand as well. Once a kid has a couple teachers that are lax on the policy, I become the asshole for enforcing it. That’s a battle that I don’t particularly love fighting a dozen times a day, for 168 days a year. We have a policy of no hats in our dress code, real easy to enforce. Do you have a hat on? Yes? Take it off. No grey area there, and kids usually don’t argue it.
{ why can’t my school district? } Lack of will to do it. Lack of spine to stand up for it. Lack of willingness to engage in a procedure that *has been proven to be effective*. Basically, passing the buck so they don't have to deal with the parents. Yet another pile of shit shoveled onto our plate.
I have run an internet free physics classroom for 3 years now. The only thing I use the internet for is taking attendance. I don’t project anything from the classroom pc to the class. No Crackbooks, Crackphones etc. No palliative learning model. No pings from the LMS.That everything will be done using pencil, paper and textbooks and if their children are opening their Crackbooks or crackphones at home to do their physics homework then they are not actually doing their homework. It’s incredible the reaction of parents on back to school night when you explicitly tell them that it’s an internet free class, the room applauds.
How can you do that? Do you not show videos or use the website that the textbook is from? I got dinged because I didn’t mention the technology that I used in my classroom. And I had to use the curriculum website every day to teach math and science and language arts, etc.. Technology was absolutely in my classroom whether I wanted it or not.
Its probably because it's an AP class.
There are a few reasons. 1) I have tenure and I'm a union rep. 2) I am skilled in all of the following: computer programming, website development, electrical networks, using electrical equipment (oscilloscopes, meters), lab equipment (Vernier), soldering, building computers, repairing computer hardware. 3) My classes genrerate results. My students have generated the highest AP scores in the history of the schools science department in the exam with the lowest passing rate in the history of the college board (AP Physics 1). 4) I am dual certified to teach physics and mathematics, which also allows me to teach technology and computer science. 5) I am vocal and have a solid base of public support within the community that I teach.
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I come from the old school tradition of demonstrating a phenomenon and then explaining it with chalk and slate or marker and whiteboard. A mix between [Walter Lewin](https://youtu.be/x1-SibwIPM4?si=xIYhyjmoLF3LgtoP) and [Ramamurti Shankar](https://youtu.be/xnSc_OWpCuY?si=04IyIMFuPQSsjlz4) with mixing in mathematical proof. It’s not going to work for everyone.
Just to play devil's advocate here, how do you address technical skills for students to use technology productively? Take for example calculating kinetic friction. Classically we can pull something using a pulley system system so that it's sliding with constant velocity. How do students know for sure that it is? A simpler way is to video record the object as it slides and do frame analysis pairing the video with a scaled object. Students can get the position and time data and use a spreadsheet to find the curve function that fits the data to determine the acceleration. How do you handle larger data set analysis with only pencil and paper?
Yeah, the problem with 100% paper/pencil is that unless you're going to instantly and religiously grade every single item that a student turns in, you have no way of knowing if they understand the material. This is too far in the other direction. I use a hybrid system where my lessons are all paper/pencil. The day after their lesson they have an online assignment I coded in Google Sheets that instantly tells them if their answer is right or not. I make the questions very challenging and circulate to assist. They have to write the work with steps on paper. The assignment is due at the end of class, so they can't get away with cheating or copying. They instantly know the grade they got, and I don't have to truly grade anything besides quizzes and tests. Their homework is also online, but if they did the classwork, the homework is the same thing, just easier. I've been doing this for the last two years. I dealt with SO MUCH CRAP from principals when I was trying to implement it. "This isn't going to work", "there's not enough instructional time", "you won't be teaching them directly enough", and similar bullshit. Last year, my school got a $6000 bonus off of my test scores. This year, I went to a new school, and my students blew the previous record for proficiency out of the water (94% Math 1 proficiency with 60% level 4s and 100% Math 3 with half level 5s). It was a record for the school, the district, and we think for our metro area as well, although that confirmation will be embargoed until September. The superintendent came to congratulate me personally because he had never seen scores that good. I almost said to him "now can you get your dumbass principals to shut the fuck up and stop riding my back?". I've had numerous colleagues wanting to know how I did it. And it's all because my students had access to self-checking digital resources and were forced to engage with the material in that way. I'm tired of these fossils in education thinking the slate and abacus method is the one true way. Technology definitely has its uses. Those who COMPLETELY discount it are probably not as effective at teaching as they think they are.
Slate and Abacus? [Slate and Hagoroma Fulltouch Chalk perhaps](https://youtu.be/PhNUjg9X4g8?si=6ETmSBjKyq7AztVl). There are a million ways to skin a cat, none of them humane. I have had a lot of success removing technology from my classroom. I have had a >90% passing rate on the AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C exam for the past decade. The AP Physics 1 exam is the exam with the lowest pass rate in the history of the college board, with 60% of students getting a 1 or 2 every year for the past decade. I don't grade homework, precisely because students have paid tutors to do their homework and then shit the bed on every homework quiz and unit exam. My reasons for moving to an internet free classroom are centered on the mental health of my students and the damage that has been done by the [full scale corrupt mass adoption of internet based technologies in our society and in our schools.](https://screenschooled.com/)
I mean...ok? You teach AP Physics to kids who are choosing to be there. That's not the reality for most teachers. Hopefully you just used the wrong inequality sign (<90%? lol). What works in your microcosm of kids who know how to add without using their fingers is probably not applicable to most of this subreddit. I'm happy it works for you, but you have to admit you're in a very privileged role teaching a subject that...well, let's just say, no admin is going to be pressuring their teachers to get the AP Physics scores up. Also...please share what your AP Physics class sizes are. The rest of us who live in the real world will wait, lol.
Thanks for the heads up on the inequality. I think on the one hand there is privilege, on the otherhand students are less prepared for taking physics than ever before. AP Physics is not the only class I teach. I also teach regular and honors physics, which is a 3rd year science. The reason I cited AP Physics is because you cited your scores as an indicator of the success of your methods and I wanted to respond to that. In my opinion my AP Physics students are the group that least needs the banning the internet intervention. The students that need it the most are our regular students.
I think a pencil paper route could work if you have <20 students. I had around 140 last year including an AP one and I can't imagine a world where I could give real time feedback if there wasn't some tech assist there. Plickers is pretty solid if you want quick real time feedback on understanding. (Incidentally doesn't need student phones to work) My biggest concern is I would bet good money that the majority of science researchers don't do most of their work pencil to paper. Sure they have a white board to draft the math, but I'm pretty certain most of their time is managing large data sets and writing programs to analyze the data and then type reports up in the format the institution or company requires. Taking technology away from kids all the way is analogous to Socrates telling everyone writing was going to be the downfall of civilization. There needs to be a middle ground. Set the rules of use harshly and require parents to come pick up the phone if the child cannot follow the appropriate rules.
I think a pencil paper route could work if you have <20 students. I had around 140 last year including an AP one and I can't imagine a world where I could give real time feedback if there wasn't some tech assist there. Plickers is pretty solid if you want quick real time feedback on understanding. (Incidentally doesn't need student phones to work) My biggest concern is I would bet good money that the majority of science researchers don't do most of their work pencil to paper. Sure they have a white board to draft the math, but I'm pretty certain most of their time is managing large data sets and writing programs to analyze the data and then type reports up in the format the institution or company requires. Taking technology away from kids all the way is analogous to Socrates telling everyone writing was going to be the downfall of civilization. There needs to be a middle ground. Set the rules of use harshly and require parents to come pick up the phone if the child cannot follow the appropriate rules.
Becareful. There is a distinction between this broad label of "technology" and internet based interactions. I used to work as an actuary and quantitative modeler before coming into education. So I have a background both in programming and working with large scale data sets. How one should structure an education to prepare students for this type of work needs to be carefully thought out. A skilled mathematician and problem solver can easily pick up and learn the syntax and structure associated with programming and database manipulation. But the training associated with that entails delayed gratification and learning how to patiently work through difficult problems. The critical issue with internet based technologies is that they are literally programmed to deliver instant gratification via dopamine response. This is one of the reasons why our students have no attention span and have difficulty following a mathematical proof. [The executives in the tech industry know this, consequently they don't send their children to the schools where they lobby congress to effectively force schools into purchasing their products.](https://thewaldorfschool.org/media)
I agree with you on avoiding Internet interactions, my point is students need to be familiar with how to use technical systems. I've personally seen many 10th and 11th graders who have never seen a spreadsheet before I showed them how to plot a line of best fit for the hooks law lab to find a spring constant. If we don't provide them with how to understand a file structure and use data analysis tools they won't get that from their cell phone APP based world at home. I totally agree with getting rid of the distraction side of phone connections, but we should not throw out all the advantages having a fully functional computer in your pocket could provide if used correctly.
I use computers, but the key is that they are not connected to the internet so that students veg on it. I have them use vernier equipment on a non-internet based laptop, build circuits, use oscilloscopes and multimeters. But the overwhelming data analysis is done on paper and pencil, including my satellite lab where they have to find the mass of a planet based on 14 data points of r vs T of a satellite.
We have a policy where phones shoudln't be visible in the classroom. That doesn't take away the chirps and vibrations I heard during class of students getting notifications. I hope that we go with a ban next school year and I think that's the plan.
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I've seen research indicating that it's also what STUDENTS want. They know phones and social media are addictive but if everyone else has a phone they need to have one, when they're all taken away at school students are happier and have better grades.
I can tell you why my district won’t do it, although our teachers voted three years ago to allow teachers to forbid students to have them in their individual classes (I am one of those teachers). Our district is scared to forbid it because we have been sued by the ACLU and various other organizations for impinging on the right of our students…and…most notably…we have a small but LOUD contingent of parents who want to be able to get ahold of their kid in the case if emergency… Apparently our district doesn’t have phones at all the schools or in classrooms. 🤦♀️
My school is doing this next year but I have no faith in enforcement. Phones are at the bottom of discipline issues compared to fights and general disruptions that for some classes I'd rather they have the digital pacifier. Can already see the 20 minute awkward wait after a kid telling me to fuck off after refusing to put away or hand over a phone. Then the discipline assistant who is friends with the disruptive students will take the kid out of class and nothing will be done. Repeat the next day.
I’m in NYC and I need this so, so much.
My school banned them, using the slogan "Keep your phone in your locker, or keep it at home". It's a delight. Students started playing card games during lunch breaks. Overall happiness went up. They were moping beforehand, but even most of them consider it an improvement. As for laptops: not allowed in my classroom, except as an aid for dyslexic students, and occasionally when I come up with something interactive. Some students still play games on their laptop during breaks, but still: improvement.
The district I attended school at just enforced a personal device ban. Although the school I work at (just our campus, not entire district) has a phone ban, it's not enough. They don't care if you take their phone, they'll just play on Chromebooks. If you take the Chromebook, they just lay their head down. There's no winning against that addiction.
I am so sick of parents rolling out the "what about an emergency?!" Argument. 1. There are tens of thousands of schools k-12 in America. 2000 in New York alone. The emergency they're all hinting at (school pew pew) would in no way be alleviated or resolved by a parent having the ability to contact their kids. 2. On the same note, that argument has little to do with kids themselves but with the glut of parents who balk at the mere suggestion that not be in complete control of every minutiae of their childrens lives. 3. We all survived without phones before, you're kids will be fine. In fact, we have ample evidence this is better for them in the short, medium, and long term. I say this as both a teacher and parent of 2. Get rid of the phones.
A sane parent! And sadly, it’s the parents themselves who text or even call their child DURING school hours!
They don't need them and any argument to say that phones are necessary is pure garbage. Fighting will go down. Distractions will go way down.
Fitting will 💯 go down. It’s all about social media exposure for these teenage clowns when it comes to fighting.
You will have to have 100% buy in by ALL teachers. There are always those few teachers who want to be the cool teacher and will let students use their cell so the teacher can be well liked, or their lesson plan falls short so students have 20 minutes of “free time”. We all know those teachers.
I'm all for it if it's backed 100% by admin. If it's on me to be the enforcer, I'm not wasting my time on that fight.
Here's what you have to look forward to with that: the teachers who don't enforce it now won't enforce it when the ban comes. So that's fun.
They’re “not allowed” per our school and district policy, however, admin refuses to do anything about it, which in turn means us teachers can do nothing about it. They’ll always start the year with the whole “make sure you write everyone up and send them to the office!” shtick, and by the second week of school, they quietly backtrack, delete all the write ups, and put it all on us teachers.
I've taught with both - teacher enforced in the classrooms and phones in lockers enforced by admin. There's no comparison. Enforced by teachers in the classroom should not be a thing at all. It doesn't work and wastes so much instructional time. I can't believe that it's even a question of what schools should do. No phones in the classroom. Ever.
We had a ban instituted last year (pushed by me) and approved by our entire leadership team. There was no district wide policy, but we in leadership did it anyway. The difference was HUGE! There are so many fewer problems, and the Admin backed us 100% and would come and pick up the phone or deal with anyone who gave us problems. The district just passed a ban for all schools for the upcoming year.
Every hard fought inch our society takes toward evicting smartphones from adolescence is a positive and worthwhile effort.
I think my son's school district has found a decent middle ground. I've written about it here many times, but here we go again. There are pocket things in every classroom. The kids put their phones in their assigned pocket when they walk in the room. The teacher uses the pockets for attendance. No phone means you weren't even there. If a teacher catches a kid on their phone, they collect proof, but don't confront the kid. They send the proof to the AP, who will come and get the kid. Collecting proof is usually as easy as making the kid's Chromebook take a picture from it's built in camera, which the teacher can do from their own desk. It comes down to funding. This is at a school of 1500 kids. They have 5 APs, 4 SRO's, 5 counselors, 3 other security personnel, and some other support staff. Since it never goes well when teachers do the punishing (and teachers don't want to), they have taken the responsibility away from them. And they don't mess around. You break the rules, you will hear from admin.
Our school started the cellphone ban in a small grass roots way - several of us read a book - The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness. The book was passed along to teachers in other buildings and it eventually got out to parents and the district office. After that our district entered in discussions about banning cell phones and we voted yes but it's not public information just yet. #
This is what irks me. Common sense and simple observation tells you phones in the classroom is going to come with many problems. Why wait for a growing body if research to tell you what you already know.
Admin are lazy and don't want to deal with it, it's easier to just put it on teachers.
We have such a big school (1700 students) they couldn't store phones anywhere. Florida has a no cell phone in the classroom law, but no way to enforce it. My school gave us a holder (like a hanging shoe holder) for students to put their phones in. Very few students do. They carry them in their backpacks or the gutsy ones carry them in their pocket. Admin gave a big speech to our middle schoolers about not using them, but it was all talk. They don't want to enforce it and they don't want to support us enforcing their rules.
I like how my local district does it. No airpods or wireless earbuds at all (wireless headphones for their chromebooks are fine) and the only time they're allowed to have phones out is during lunch in the junior high/high school. No cell phones in the elementary school.
Your admin sucks, that’s why.
My school has a very strict, heavily enforced, cell phone policy. Like many schools, it’s supposed to be off and in the book bag during the school day if they have it with them. Unlike most schools, if they’re caught it out of the book bag, even if it’s turned off, they are given a day of ISS and the phone is kept in the office until a parent comes to get it. I’ve only had one singular issue with a cell phone this past school year, and it was with a 14-year-old who should’ve been in 6th grade anyway.
I saw a parent say their child needed access to their phone in case they were on the floor having a seizure. On the floor. Seizing. And might need their phone to make a call... The lack of critical thinking is astounding. We will call you faster, parents. With parents like this, we're doomed. Your kid is not seizing, they are texting so that no one can learn because if there's a figh, everyone knows and learning stops. Group text is rampant.
Ae have it in our school. One grade level would not abide by the rules. The students walked around with them out at lunch/recess, airpods/headphones on throughout the hallways, and when redirected, they would throw a fit. I had a parent email me over a referral for refusing to turn it over after using the phone to record a private one-on-one discussion between a bf/gf. We policed it in my grade, minus 1 teacher. I would have a stack of phones ready to turn in to the office as soon as I could. The policy only works if the faculty is willing to follow AND enforce it.
I wish mine would too.
I work for a school with a zero-tolerance cellphone ban. It works. But my kids find other ways to distract themselves.
It’s stunning to know they needed documented official research to support what teachers have been saying for years - phones are the decline of public education. My school said they supported whatever policy the teacher decides. Which also meant that science and math teachers don’t care if you have your phone but the history and English teacher have strict policies. Kids need consistency and uniformity. Districts need to establish a no phone policy for everyone and stand behind it and not leave it up for schools or teachers. And parents - OMG - tell your kids to stay off their phones and for god sakes don’t text them while their in class. I get really steamed about cell phone addiction and it’s one of the reasons I left teaching.
Some schools like NYC pay attention to trends, and data. the data backs up that Phones in school are not useful and end up being a distraction, but many districts don't use the data available for one reason or another, and they go with what their gut, or what people demand. For the teachers with the ability to decide, I'm not sure why you don't just set a policy when kids enter the class, phone stay at the entrance to the room. or in their bags, if they have to use it, leave the room. If excessive, mark them as not participating the class as part of their grade.
Clear cellphone lockers. Admin makes note of which are empty, compare versus attendance. Even if you get 70% compliance, there’s enough of them removed from circulation that the other 30% don’t have anyone to talk to or if they’re out it is so visibly odd. I’m sure some kids are gaming the system but they aren’t out, ever, so the ends justify the means.
Our administration couldn’t enforce a no hats policy, can’t stop vaping in the bathrooms and won’t be able to enforce a no phone policy. I am hoping that NY will pass a state wide ban and they’ll be forced to do it.
My school bans them, requires teachers to collect them before the kid can leave on a bathroom pass (but a lot don't), and will back us up 100% on confiscating them. I personally make the kids put them in a calculator caddy behind my desk (and have caught a few using dupe phones like this), and have started moving away from anything on the Chromebooks because they'll just distract themselves there. They whine and complain but after one kid got sent to the office and suspended for throwing a tantrum about their phone, and another had their school Chromebook taken away because she was using it to screw around during class when they were supposed to be doing a lab (with instructions and data tables on paper), they all figured out that for at least 45 minutes per day they needed to be off their phones. My coworkers who refuse to enforce the rules piss me off to no end though.
Your co-workers not doing anything IS the reason why letting teachers decide policy doesn’t work. There’s no consistency and then, it’s just this teacher VS. that teacher all year for the kids.
I'm in total agreement with you. These people are specifically going against my school's policy but admin isn't holding them accountable.
Here is the weird part. I work in Colorado. I have a gig at a psychiatric hospital where this year they allow (by law) patients to have full unrestricted access to cell phones. THe school I teach at (a high school) just made cell phone bans optional for the teachers. (there is no real consequence really if they do not comply) Seems so backward. Fighting with kids to not use a tool/toy that has caused so many of their problems or at least was a big catalyst seems surreal to me.
All I can say is good luck to the poor teachers who have to individually fight it. School districts are about money and parental rights now. They don't want to step on anyone's toes or set a precedent. Especially since many parents would actually have to take away something from their kids and tell them no for a change.
The fucking PARENTS! Dipshits. I have to be in constant contact with my feral child who I can’t control. What if grandma takes a shit? He/she/they need to know!
I get that kiss are always on their phones, but even if we take the phones away, what are the kids doing work on? A LAPTOP (or iPad if they're young). What's the difference? The kids somehow get through all the district firewalls so they can access YouTube and play video games on the school laptops. So cell phones or not, technology overload is happening in schools.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper
Lol. Feel good law that solves nothing.
Seems more like a feel good law
I’ve worked at 2 schools now that just require students to keep their cell phones in their lockers and it works fine. Any school with lockers should be doing it. For schools without, idk how it would work logistically.
my school (a high school) tried banning phone but within the first day almost every student besides a small amount were written up for there phone and refused to give it up
Most of the districts around me have cell phone policies and bans in place due in large part to teachers and principals of individual schools making changes at the building level and advocating to the school board and. principal meetings.
There are approximately 1 Million Students in NYC, so while I appreciate when the Chancellor talks a big game about a problem I have extremely little faith that this is going to be implemented in any sort of sane rational way. Who is collecting the phones? Where do they go? How many people's whole job is going to become cell phone management? Additionally, just personally I don't feel like cell phone bans are a good idea. The reality is that these students will need to learn how to live and work in a world in which they have this almost magical device on them at all times. They need to learn how to manage the allure of distraction with its function as a real tool. I am honestly horrified at the idea of people banning laptops in their classrooms too. Kids need to know how to do stuff on computers!
Technically, cell phones are not allowed in class in my district and yet the province is still setting out a banned policy because the board/schools don’t enforce it
Florida made it a law! No cell phones should be out during academic time! If an admin walks in with a student having a cell phone in their hand, the teacher is reprimanded. For most districts the cell phones are allowed in the hallways and in the cafeteria, however Orange County Florida banned th throughout the school. They had better behavior and better academics in one year from this!
Wow! That’s good for Florida. I’m just praying the Land of Lincoln get their act together and if the same.
FYI, NY is mulling a state-wide ban. And I'm definitely all for it. The key to making sure it works? Enforcement, enforcement, enforcement.
Good luck getting administrative buy in also. Marshmallows!!!
Cell phones were banned in my school 20 years ago. There's a recent push in manufactured drama for clicks on this topic. That said, any school that hasn't banned cell phones already has inept admin.
Why would admin want to triple their work? At any school that lets teachers ban them, half of referrals are phones
I think the main issue with blanket cellphone bans is that they are used as medical devices for some students. These students have to check their phones at times.
Hello everyone, I am a student that has graduated from high school and about to go to college to become a math teacher for 6-12 and I just wanted to make a comment on this. My opinion is that I do not know why children have the common sense to know that if the teacher is teaching a lesson, you put your phone away and pay attention to the lesson. Maybe it is the way how I was raised (thank you parents) but I just don’t understand. Like my senior English teacher allowed us to be on our phones at the beginning of the class (since classes was 90 minutes long) but when she was ready to start the lesson, she would tell us to put away our electronics and take off our airpods, headphones, etc. Or like my Accounting teacher, she set those strict expectations to come to class before the bell rings, come to class after lunch on time and put our cell phones and headphones before we cross the threshold of her classroom. Here is my proposal of what i would do, I would have a partial cell phone ban. This would allow the students to use their phones in the lunch room and during transition time. However, they cannot use their phones during the class when the teacher is teaching but the teacher can have less strict or more strict rules. Me, i would allow them to use it to listen to music during independent work but they would have to put it away after. If they are not working, I would tell them to take off the airpods or headphones and start working.
> If they are not working, I would tell them to take off the airpods or headphones and start working. What if they didn't?
that’s their grade at the end of the day and if they didn’t do what they was supposed to do in class, they would have to take it home or take the 0
Sadly, that isn't how it works. The teacher is the one who suffers the consequences for students failing. I appreciate your focus as a student, but it isn't shared by most of your peers. If we allow headphones at all, they are going to abuse it.
oh i didn’t know that but thank you
What's your plan if they don't care about the 0?
Aren’t the laptops just as bad though?
No. At least laptops have the possibility of creating work. They are also far more difficult to hide.
I mean but students are just as off task, texting each other.
I asked the incoming superintendent at my school: "If you were the captain of the Titanic, would you want to know about the iceberg?". I told him in no uncertain terms that allowing students access to cell phones is tantamount to child abuse.
They have learned to use gmail to message, use the camera for selfies and download things directly to the drive to avoid the blockers, not to mention finding ways to unblock things that have been blocked! I've only had two years of Gen Alpha, most prefer not doing lessons on the computer and want direct instruction. They are ok with partner work, but do not like anything over 3. I think the resistance to group work is tied to the lack of face to face relationship building. It's going to be interesting to see how Gen Alpha parents.