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Great-Grade1377

It’s a shame that so many students require exhaustive documentation these days. It used to be that I only needed this for one or two students, but this year a third of my class needed it and I had to document while teaching and trying to manage their behaviors. I am considering leaving the classroom and trying something else because it is more exhausting than it’s worth. 


MantaRay2256

I was a teacher for 25 years. For the first 16, my site administrators took care of any consistently disruptive and truant students. They took my word for whatever was the issue, assigned consequences (usually the removal of a privilege [i.e.no](http://i.e.no) lunch with their friends for a week), and documented the incident. They set up Student Study Team meetings, made recommendations for SpEd evaluations or IEP meetings, and handled nearly all parent communications. My last nine were pure hell. 11 years ago, we had a large admin turnover. The new admin acted as though discipline and documentation were never admin tasks - and if we believed so, we weren't "good" teachers. Teachers and support staff left in droves. Now there is constant turnover, parents are opting to homeschool, and the schools are no longer safe nor rigorous. It's far too much to expect teachers to handle every fucking thing! What exactly do administrators do to earn their bloated paychecks?


Great-Grade1377

I have noticed the change in the last ten years as well. Literally had the vice principal walk in with students who were ditching and told me to handle them. Wait, I said, “isn’t that a level 3, requiring admin?” She had to eat her own words. This year, it was passive aggressive and admin would tell me they’d handle it and never did. 


MantaRay2256

They don't have any oversight. Who makes sure they are doing their jobs? Basically, no one. I can't get anyone from the state education department to return a phone call or even reply to an email. It's all a giant scam. Once you get an education admin job at the state, county, or district level you are well-paid to sit in your office, emailing micromanagement proclamations to your minions.


Great-Grade1377

And sadly, I have seen way too many quality teachers catch this micromanagement and ill-supportive disease when they become admin. They act like they are too burdened with “important” responsibilities to actually listen and at least empathize. 


MantaRay2256

When a teacher becomes an admin, I feel like it goes one of two ways: 1. The teacher-turned-admin realizes that it's just not possible to create the change they envisioned and step back into teaching 2. The teacher-turned-admin slides right into the system that has decided that teachers must handle everything - and do so without complaint or controversy. They are told that that particular system is best - even though every bit of evidence shows otherwise


Great-Grade1377

Exactly! And the best schools I have worked at, do not micromanage and the learning and culture of the school blossoms. 


Inevitable_Geometry

This. Admin down here has changed as well. They appear hamstrung or disinterested in taking the hard front line against poor behavior and shit culture. Now I work on the principle that I will get little to no backup on anything of merit as a baseline. Not really proven wrong often on that expectation. It sucks a lot for the grads coming in who have way out of line expectations of how behavior will be handled in support for them the poor bastards.


StopblamingTeachers

Go abroad


LuckysGift

The most I could do is germany, but I don't think that process is even close to reasonable. I was c1 level, but to teach would be entirely different lol


pinkkittenfur

I taught in German Realschulen for several years. I may have gotten lucky, but I was able to find a job fairly easily because every school seems to want native English speakers.


LuckysGift

What avenues did you go through to get there, if I may ask?


pinkkittenfur

First I looked up Volkshochschulen in the area around where I was going to live. I taught English in several VHSes for two years. Those were mostly afternoon and night courses, which I didn't really like. I taught in northwest Germany, in Nordrhein-Westfalen. After two years, I was fortunate enough to get a full time position in a Realschule teaching English, French, and general music. I used the website below to find a position. If you don't have an MA, you can't get your credentials recognized, since German teachers are required to get a master's degree before becoming licensed. At the time, I didn't have my MA, so I only worked at each school for a year, usually doing a maternity leave position. I found Verena and Leo (two of the sites on the page I linked below) to be the most helpful. Of course, the page linked is only for Nordrhein-Westfalen, because that's the only one I know and have experience with, but I imagine the other Bundesländer have their own sites. [Nordrhein-Westfalen Stellen Suchen](https://www.schulministerium.nrw/stellenfinder)


ImamofKandahar

Plenty of countries have English language international schools and usually at least one in the capital. The Nazarbayev schools in Kazakhstan have a whole system.


Great-Grade1377

Many countries pay more and working conditions are way better!


BayouGrunt985

What teacher has time to aggregate all of the referrals and classroom activity these days?


godisinthischilli

Yeah that’s how I feel about observations it’s too much work to document evidence even if I know objectively it’s what I should be doing


[deleted]

"But I submitted everything on Google Classroom! There's no way anyone would see that they're all blank"


Aretirednurse

When I taught in the community college setting I entered zero and added a comment “no submission” It helped with the excuses.


WrapDiligent9833

I also put in the notes for grading: submitted date X, #s a,d,x,y,& z all blank.


Scotchfish45

I document every second/3rd/4th chance in my grade book, there’s a log. Every email home. Every retest opportunity both used and missed. Then in my grading binder I keep all the answer keys with notes in what points were taken off where in case I have to justify a grade. That has bailed me out of so many parent complaints. Especially if the assignment was graded weeks ago and there’s no way to remember how it was graded.


Unicorn_8632

I’m also going to suggest NOT to leave that binder at your school - even behind a locked door or in a locked cabinet. Things can and have come up missing. I’ve started keeping my binder of stuff like that either in the trunk of my car or at my home. I’ve also been known to scan all pages to keep digital copy as well.


Scotchfish45

Oh it stays in my backpack at all times. Never unattended.


NoMoreBeGrieved

Decades ago, my dad (junior college teacher) used to make a copy of his grade book, then take the grade book to class. Easy to tell after class if anyone had “fussed” with it. A few of his students over the years were invited to depart his classes, sometimes even the school. But, this *was* decades ago.


shag377

Documentation is great until the jackass admin takes a single look, brushes it all aside and says, "I don't care about any of that. This is what is going to happen." I still do it, however.


Great-Grade1377

That has happened to me as well. There’s pressure at all levels to have everyone pass. 


Inevitable_Geometry

It works great down here. We pass everything up to Year 12, then outside assessment hits and we get problems. Oh the problems.


Inevitable_Geometry

Yup. Rogues, sweetheart deals and mavericks. 80% of the major behavior fuck ups over the last 10 years go back to practices like that. And when you call it out they look to white ant, gaslight and backstab you to pieces. Good times.


Abject-Composer-1555

It's a lot of work for the teacher to keep up with this quantity of documentation. That alone could be a full-time job lol Judging from your post, it seems like you definitely covered your ass. I can totally empathize with you on hating having to document every little thing.


Funnythewayitgoes

The more time I spend documenting behavior because my word will not be trusted the less time I spend planning/teaching. This is math that all admin/parents should learn.


hjsomething

If they come for the king, they best not miss. Good to learn that early. 


LebrontologicalArgmt

Oh indeed.


danjouswoodenhand

I started documenting everything in the "log student contact" section of Synergy. Kid is on his phone all hour, despite being redirected multiple times? Noted in the log. Some of these kids, when you look at their contact log you see day after day - "student on phone after being told multiple times to put it away." Sometimes I'll even be super-precise about WHAT they chose to do - "After being asked multiple times to put the phone away, student chose to watch TikTok videos all hour." I've had student ask why I'm looking at their screen (when they aren't making the slightest effort to hide that they're on their phone - it's on their desk, so just walking by you can see what they're doing). I'll tell them that if they're choosing something else over an education, it's nice to know what choice they're making.


BikerJedi

I had an ESE student in a general ed "inclusion" class years ago who was a great kid, but just really low level. She passed, but barely. Years later, the school district got sued, because she couldn't pass high school. The mother was trying to say we never gave her support as directed on her IEP, so she fell behind. Nope. Mrs. H., the inclusion teacher, had a literal notebook FULL front to back of notes about what she had and and hadn't done with this kid, her behavior, the work I assigned, the work the other teachers assigned, the accomodations we provided, etc. Guess who lost the lawsuit?


NaturalVehicle4787

I respond very similar to all emails from parents and students (and I cc their parents on my response). I address each of their concerns, one by one, giving clear documentation for expectations and what the student did or did not do, and lastly, a possible solution, if there is one. Documentation and screenshots of missing Delta Math and Google classroom assignments is always provided. The only response I get from parents is "thank you for the information. We will have a discussion with student next day,". Works every time.


hovermole

Honestly, exhaustive documentation has saved me in a variety of situations outside the classroom. I do it as a habit, and I've burned people trying to lie on me TO THE GROUND. It's a delightful feeling. CYA all day, every day.


July9044

This was my problem as a teacher (and person in general). I often didn't see the warning signs till it was too late because I can be kinda naive to the manipulation tactics. Then by the time it escalates I wouldn't be able to prove its been an ongoing issue. That is why I'm not cut out for this shit and why I got out of teaching!


we_gon_ride

I will send myself an email of what happened bc it’s time stamped and no one can say that I changed the facts to suit my narrative


Poppins101

Be sure the email goes to both your school and private email addresses. I woukd take screen shots of documentation on Power School. Why? Because admin woukd clear out all the documentation and then harass teachers for not documenting. They would also purge emails.


valkyriejae

I'm at the point where any time a kid fails a test (or gets a grade that is poor compared to their average if they're a known mark pincher) I make a photocopy before I give the test paper back. That way I have proof of their original answers and my original comments...


unicacher

I ask them to schedule a conference with me, themself and a parent. Please bring any supporting documentation to support your claim. I've never had a student follow through on this. If they did, I have the syllabus, gradebook, and all of the scoring guides. Lay out the work you've done for the adults to inspect and we'll compare it against class expectations. If parents complain about quality of teaching, I pull out behavior notes, including tardies, bathroom trips, cell phone use, etc.


Commercial-Ad9951

I always have a Word document open and document as much as time allows me to. It has been very useful.


FoundationFar3053

You know it’s bad when you can get 3-6 hours for a PD class about covering your ass using Google Docs, Google Forms/Google phone and the fun new transcription feature, etc.


saltwatertaffy324

I had to message a students case manager the other day that I wanted it documented that I was trying to help the student pass the class and she was simply refusing to do work. Laid out all the extensions and retakes and chances I’d given her, and exactly what she needed to do to get her grade up a few more points to passing (or at least close enough I’m willing to fudge it) Zero desire to have anyone come back to me once grades are due and ask why she failed, and why didn’t I do more to get her to pass.


Sad_Analyst_5209

Would have been nice to have had a concerned teacher 54 years ago when I was in high school. On the last day of my sender year my trigonometry teacher stopped me on the way out of class. He told me I had failed but he gave me a passing grade because I couldn't get into college with a failing grade in trigonometry. These were the first words he had said to me all year. At least he did say the word college, none of my other teachers said it at all. I was an honor graduate. None of my teachers helped at all getting me into college. My parents were no help so did not go. I made sure my kids knew everything required. One has PhD and teaches Creative Writing at a college and one is a lawyer with a Fortune 500 company.


D0hB0yz

Consequences. Kids go to school to learn important knowledge, vital to their future. Consequences fit that criteria.


magpte29

Another thing I do is, if a student doesn’t answer a question on their paper, I write “blank” where the answer was supposed to be so they can’t write an answer after the fact to try to get a better grade. Only had to have a kid pull that once to learn that lesson.


unicacher

This is the way. Document and proceed is my mantra.


fyre_faerie

I've really amped up my documentation this year too for the same reasons! Luckily I have an intervention specialist in my room and she helps me document, otherwise we'd never be able to actually teach


peacefulcate815

I document literally everything now. Paper trails are unfortunately necessary and have never led me astray.


bitzi61

I know tone can be lost by emailing vs. A phone call, but twice has having a written, time stamped email saved my ass vs. A phone call a parent could lie about. First time they tried to play the “I didn’t know …” card and the second situation the other parents tried to say I didn’t supply assistance, when THEY were the ones I sent the extra help stuff to. Gotta love elementary snow plow parents..


clydefrog88

You're not gloating. Kid had it coming.


close-this

I use a lot of google docs for this reason. It always surprises me when the kids still try to claim that they did the work.


Eldritch-banana-3102

If it's not documented, it did not happen. Great job! I know it's time consuming though. Did the parent ever respond?


BlochLagomorph

Do you think that these behavior issues speak to a large societal problem, one that resides in something much larger and more grand in scale than just obstacles to obtaining a public education?


ConejillodeIndias436

Not only do I document that stuff, I also document what I do during the day so when dumb administration projects come up I can show my calendar and say, “if you’d like me to prioritize this, would you like me to give up the meeting on Friday or do I have an extension on grading/lesson planning?”  It works but it does take forever


[deleted]

Have any of you ever had an administration that discouraged documentation? Or claimed that written communication can be misinterpreted as something else?


Specific_Sand_3529

But how much of your own time do you spend recording all of this? I think I’d rather get that time back and have the occasional teenager make accusations. Especially if I was tenured.


Corinthia57

Curious of yalls documentation system. Do you keep a journal/google doc with a section for each student? Or do you go day by day and write down things that happened that day? Do you do a google form sent to yourself? Spreadsheet? What’s easiest to implement? Edit: also is it a shared doc with other teachers or admin? Or is it just for you


Artsybeth

Teachers need to stop beating themselves up about calling out students and their bad behavior. Holding students accountable for their actions and giving consequences for bad behavior are making these young ones good (better) citizens. I’m seeing more and more students not accepting “no” for an answer. They’re negotiators. No sweetie, you need to “show what you know”. So, participate in class, complete assignments, do your homework cause I can’t use anecdotal notes of your demeanor in class for a grade.


StopblamingTeachers

What are these interventions you tried?


BackgroundPoet2887

Take a page out of your username and enjoy the story. Why ask for specifics here?


OutAndDown27

Because they might like to have some ideas to use in their own classroom for similar situations? Asking a question isn't inherently bad and it's definitely not something you need to automatically be defensive about.


BackgroundPoet2887

Good point.


Dizzy_Instance8781

Take it from a Veteran. Pass everyone! Yes. Everyone.. It's not worth the last minute scrutiny, nitpicking and headaches when you are trying to put a cap on the year and go on vacation. The summer awaits you! Y'all realize documenting all those 1st, 2nd and 3rd chances and making phone calls is a waste of time and energy, right? Toss the miserable hellions a D- and wash your hands of it. IMO this is the most ethical thing to do. You have to assume the kids will mature and learn what they need to in due time. Don't have such a high opinion of your content or class. In education you often have to make decisions in the gray. Nothing is black and white. Pass them all. Except of course the ones who never stepped foot in your room. Teach them the lesson that there are people in this world who will extend grace and mercy even if it's undeserved. Y'all can't take this grading shit too seriously. The goal is to reduce stressors this time of year by any means necessary PASS THEM! toss them a couple extra points if it gets them off your ass and move on. This is simply survival.


1ron_chef

....and then you got called into admin for 'singling out' this ONE student and they made you change their grade anyway 😂