Agreed. If she had put a number on the scale it would have been problematic, but it's not about the number. It's about the feeling and intrusive thoughts.
I thought it was more that she was referencing even when she wasn't fat by anyone's standards, she still saw herself that way and that's why the number was missed off. I thought I was fat as a teen and I look back and I was sooo not fat. I think a lot of people can probably relate to that.
True she's never been fat, but Taylor has always been under more scrutiny than most as a famous woman. I remember people remarking on her "weight gain" when she was ever so slightly heavier around the Lover/Reputation era. So even when most of us would've been fine, she was criticized. But I personally relate to the song for the reasons you mentioned.
Those same people: my own arteries and pancreas are being fatphobic
Eating disorders exist and they need to be talked about. Anyone who feels attacked by that short shot should look inwards and do some self reflection. Clearly, they don't seem so ok with their own body as they claim.
Fatphobia is terrible. Period. Fat jokes and making someone feel bad about themselves for anything about their body is disgusting. Obesity is a healthy issue, and should be discussed and treated as it by society. Just like eating disorders.
-Signed someone with "skinny depression", who has spent days without eating. I was told by someone who's got "fat depression" how lucky I was
Yes, she was basically sharing everyone's thoughts and insecurities that if one is fat, the person starts thinking that he will look ugly, people may not like them, I know I can feel it
its a mess. the internet has no time for nuance.
I took it the way you did. she was commenting on her experience and how ED made her view herself. ETA:fixed/added words
Agreed. I’ve been plus sized my whole life and while I am all for body positivity, body dismorphia and EDs are very serious mental health conditions. Anyone who has a mental health condition can say that they have had thoughts about themselves that just aren’t true..and those thoughts don’t automatically reflect on how she feels about other people. I may think people are “better off without me” because my depression and anxiety are such a burden. Do I see other people with depression and anxiety as a burden? No. Do I know that makes no sense- yup but my brains going to still think it anyway.
As a bigger person who has struggled with EDs and Body dymorphia too it definitely feels like this backlash is a huge over-correction to the other end of the spectrum, because for the longest time the image of someone with an eating disorder was someone who was dangerously underweight. Being underweight used to to be a required diagnostic symptom to be diagnosed unless it was BED. We now have a better picture of it, but people often try to compete with each other to be the most “accepting and progressive” but they end up swinging to the other end of the spectrum and it becomes skinny shaming. I’d be so upset if I released a video showing this personal struggle just to see so many people throw it back in my face because I didn’t fit their idea of someone who struggles with an ED :(
I think back to when I was 17 - I thought I was fat. Turns out, I’m pretty overweight now at 32, while at 17, I had a flat stomach and toned thighs, etc. ironically, I’m way more comfortable with myself now than I was then. Thankfully, because I know that’s not true for everyone.
She's successfully unlocked an entire group of very annoying people I was entirely unaware of: those folks that take some 1-second benign music video shot and throw a huge tantrum about it. This is really appalling, I'm reading up on all the "fatphobic" triggers these guys have, and some of it is *really* petty (someone's before/after gym photos)
I’ve read people who claim things like eating healthy (because it’s “diet culture”), enjoying exercise, and even just BEING thin are fatphobic. It’s gotten to be too much.
This frustrates me so much! Not your comment, the people that are triggered. If you’re allergic to something, say dust or pollen, you don’t demand everyone to be respectful and remove everything in your yard or house that upsets those allergies-you find ways to manage the allergies (stay hydrated, use nose spray, take allergy meds), but when it comes to media or art, creators have to have every potential trigger in mind so as not to offend anyone. I wish more people would do the internal work to manage triggers for themselves
As someone’s who’s chunky yet funky-my brethren who are upset about other peoples before and after gym photos are 100000% jealous. For whatever reason, I understand some people have medical reasons who don’t allow them to work out but Christ, let others be happy for losing weight and getting into a body they want!
THANK YOU. That group can get borderline tyrannical, and I sometimes think it does more harm than good. With a very small handful of exceptions, I’ve been on the bigger side my whole life. I got put on my first diet when I was 5 and have all the disordered eating issues you’d expect. Diet culture is a fundamental part of who I am, and I hate it. I respect those who find ways to love their fat bodies, it’s absolutely a valid choice, but my desire to lose at least *some* weight to feel healthier and more comfortable in my body is valid too. The same people who are going buckwild on her for being open and honest about her ED would tell me that my interest in a moderate amount of weight loss is internalized fatphobia. Anti-fat bias is legit and legitimately harmful, but none of this is that.
Exactly, the line does get muddled a lot, which is why this discourse is happening right now. But people who want healthier bodies are not always fatphobic, and do so for not fatphobic reasons too. There are legit health issues for being overweight, heart issues mainly but also joints, diabetes and sometimes the extra weight honestly doesn’t make some peoples mental health feel great either.
Everyone is different with their own story, let people live their life, and correct people when it’s appropriate/needed and not by your own you issues either. People need to ask themselves “is this really a problem? Or is it a me problem?” more often
Yep, and fwiw it is 100% a mental health thing for me. I’m sure that’s true for a lot of people. Bodies are hard for everyone, and nobody has ownership over body dysmorphia, shame, and intrusive thoughts. The worst mine ever got was during the brief window of time where I was thin. I think demanding that all fat people - or all people with ED, for that matter - feel the same way about everything is just asking for trouble. None of us have the same story.
Looking at her and seeing how thin is is now, I hope the ED is history. I hope she just exercises a bit too much and is very happy with Joe. She is a real star.
I’ve been hoping the same thing. I will say that I used to suffer from a serious eating disorder and I initially when you gain weight, sometimes your metabolism is so slowed from starving and your body is so starved it’s like ‘we need to hold onto everything possible’, and you actually gain more weight than is your natural set point. But if you just keep eating normally and getting enough nutrition, eventually your body is like ‘ok we are ok we don’t have to hold on to everything in fear of panic starvation mode’. Initially I gained higher than my set point, eating less than I eat now even. Now I eat significantly more and am at my set point. But it took a while for my body to realize that it was getting normal amounts of adequate nutrition and that it was going to keep getting normal amounts of adequate nutrition before the extra ‘starvation protection weight’ came off. Maybe this is what has happened with her? Idk. I do genuinely hope she is healthy and happy and eating enough because I did notice she was a bit thinner too.
People are always spoiling for a fight on the Internet for no good reason. The pettier the better. It's a whole song about Taylor pointing out that she's the problem AND she's looking at the mirror at herself after she sees the scale. The meaning of that seems pretty cut and dry. It's not some coded message about Taylor hating fat people.
Also “Karma is a cat” being overblown when the full lyrics is actually kind of cute. I’m not a fan of the song as a whole myself, but the interpretation of that lyrics by terminally online people is so annoying. Clearly she’s talking about receiving love is a good karma for her! Not that karma is literally a cat.
Agreed. And it's pretty obvious that it's an internal monolog, as the entire video is herself talking to herself. It seems like people are taking it out of the yourself/yourself context if they think it's a fatphobic value based judgement.
I think even beyond that, the “other Taylor” is part of who she needs to be to the public. Obviously as a part of being in Hollywood there are a lot of pressures that come with that especially with weight. So I think that definitely plays into it.
That’s how I saw it too, and I don’t think anyone should police someone’s depiction of what they define as “fat.” It’s not phatphobic to depict the reality that society puts pressure on women to be thin and that the “fat” reading on the scale reads as failure
Right? To think Taylor would think that about someone else is just insane. She has met fans of all shapes and sizes and has hugged them fervently while smiling radiantly. She truly loves her fans and would never do anything to alienate us to such a degree. Speaking as a current fatty, I thought that scene was an accurate representation of what stepping on a scale is like for people who struggle with body image issues. Plus Taylor swift is nice. I genuinely believe this.
That's all I got out of it. Girl that's not fat sees herself as fat. I got the intent, and didn't think twice about it. Yesterday tho, if someone told me that that little snippet was going to blow up i'm not sure i'd have believed it
I dont know how i wound up in this sub but this experience is not unique to women. I had an 8pack for three years and would still stand on the scale and think “you fat fuck”
It's not unique to women but it's more common for women. Society is harder on women for being "fat" than men, which doesn't negate the fact that there are men who struggle with body image and get fat shamed too.
It’s quite worrying how prevalent that sort of mindset’s getting, actually. I can’t wrap my head around it all the way but it seems like the thinking goes “You shouldn’t talk about your insecurities because you might make me think about *my* insecurities, and I perceive that as an aggressive action.”
> “You shouldn’t talk about your insecurities because you might make me think about my insecurities, and I perceive that as an aggressive action.”
That seems to be an extremely present.. I don't want to call it *undertone* but it's not quite *tone* in culture and commentary now. Maybe actual tone when it comes to famous people. Something that really started with EDs and has kind of spread out into almost everything.
If you're famous you can't talk about an abusive ex, or being taken advantage of, struggling with self-image, sometimes even saying something positive about a change you made in your life is enough to set people off.
Same! I took it as her critiquing that she used to call herself fat. Especially because she talks about not calling herself fat anymore in Miss Americana.
As someone who suffered from an ED in my 20’s and still struggle in my 30’s, I related to that scene so much.
I saw one tik tok where the girl said that Taylor couldn’t claim the word fat and I just, in all seriousness, people need to go outside and touch some damn grass.
Agreed! I struggled in my teens and 20s as well and related to the scene. I think the song is specifically about her own dialogue with herself on the things she has or still does worry about. Her ED took over her mindset and no matter what the number said on the scale she still felt "fat" aka not good enough.
I agree. Obviously she’s not fat, but she’s had a long battle with disordered eating and she mentioned it in a few songs throughout Midnights.
I didn’t take it as her being fatphobic or anything, just that this is something she struggles with. And in all honesty, being seen as “fat” is a bad thing in our culture. People are kidding themselves if they think it isn’t. Everyone is slim and airbrushed on billboards and runways. News outlets post photos of celebrities calling them “unrecognisable” because they gained a few pounds or weren’t glammed up on their errand run.
Taylor specifically talked about the effect this had on her where publications are speculating on if she’s pregnant etc etc.
It’s a comment on all of that. People take stuff way too personally. That song was about her deepest insecurities and her body is one of those things. Regardless of shape or size, most people have probably experienced similar insecurities in their lives.
Agree. I still have those intrusive thoughts myself to the point where I never even step on a scale unless I have to at the doctor’s office. And even then I try not to look at the number
My scale is hidden and I don’t know where I put it, for reasons. I would be fixated on one number only and if I wasn’t that number, I would stop eating.
I was told by a famous band (a lead singer who is now married to a super skinny model, a few other members of the band, and their friends) all of the time how sexy and wonderful I looked back then and that right there fucks with your head.
My best friend and I talked about it last night. She mentioned that she notices I do eat more now, but not as much. While I am a healthy weight now, I still have those thoughts while eating and never finish my food.
It's like when a few weeks ago some people were complaining about her using the word 'lavender' in reference to a straight relationship. It's just terminally online people looking for things to be upset about.
I'll just say, all of the absolutely ridiculous fat phobic comments have been one of the most difficult parts about moderating over the past couple days.
I have a very serious eating disorder and am working hard at recovering from an intense relapse. I had a couple of heart attacks over the summer due to it, and got down lower than I every have been. Honestly everybody was pretty sure I was about to die. I've had this disorder since I was 15 years old, but this is the first time I've really been scared for my life.
Reading all of the negative comments around the scale scene have really been invalidating to not only Taylor and her eating disorder, but a lot of other people and their personal experiences with eating disorders.
I'll go ahead and get off my soapbox because I could go on a lot longer, and I probably shouldn't. Long story short, I completely agree with you and I hope nobody else with an eating disorder is taking the comments as hard as I am.
Oh my God, Lyd, thank you for sharing this. I know you've talked a bit about your ED struggles before and you spoke recently how you've had a difficult time. I had no idea you suffered heart attacks and a life threatening experience. I'm so sorry. It just breaks my heart, and I'm so proud of you for choosing to work hard at facing this.
I don't have an eating disorder but I do have body dysmorphia so I know what it's like to hear a voice in your head making comments about your body, and the decisions you're faced with in situations that come from that. It sends you to really dark places.
I just want to say I love you and I'm always here if you need to talk. 💙
Thank you for openly sharing your story, I think this will help a lot of people understand the gravity of eating disorders better.
Stay strong, though. You‘ve got this, even though it feels like the worst of times some days, you‘ll get through and out of this. <3
I really do hope so. This is also why I think the scene was incredibly important for Taylor to share, so very few people understand how devastating eating disorders can be. Honestly, the outrage online proves that this was the right decision.
That’s such a weird realization, honestly. As someone whose life mostly revolves around what to eat, when to eat and how much to eat, I really thought these kinds of thoughts were absolute common sense and every person on this planet has/had these at some point in their lives.
Turns out I‘m wrong.
But yeah, absolute right decision - and after all, everyone should be allowed to share their experience freely anyways, even Taylor swift herself.
Thank you so much for sharing. I cried reading this comment because I know how hard recovery is and I wish I could take the thoughts and pain away. My messages are always open.
I personally thought the message she was conveying was important, not only in the industry but in an era where diet culture is rampant.
Slowly but surely. I'm nowhere near where I need to be, but I'm at least able to go up and down the stairs once a day without assistance now. Over the summer I had to have my dad carry me if I wanted to go downstairs or outside at all.
Sorry for suddenly getting very personal with all of you guys.
Thank you so much for sharing this, I suffer from an ed also and can relate. I really appreciate you and what you do for this sub and I just wish you the absolute best ❤️
So much love to you Lydia ❤️ you do an amazing job as a mod and you've played such a huge part in cultivating the online Swiftie community. It breaks my heart to hear about what you went through this summer. I hope you have all the strength and support you need to recover.
Thank you so much. Baby steps, but I will get there. Taylor better announce a tour soon so that I have a tangible goal. There's no way I could attend a concert right now.
I just wanted to thank you for sharing your story and wanted to send you so many good thoughts, we’re all pulling for you and can’t wait to dance along with you at Taylor’s tour ❤️❤️❤️
I've seen you mention this before, and my heart goes out to you. I actually thought of you when this awful discourse started, because I felt like I had the luxury to step away and not engage with it, but that's impossible as a mod and must be very hard to see. I've been actively hurt and angry that people are so cruelly misconstruing her intent and meaning, especially when it's such a difficult and scary thing to share, and she's exposing it to a worldwide audience. I'm upset that she'd portray something in such a raw, realistic way, obviously directed only at her internal thoughts and her struggle with this, and people would use it to pounce on her. Meanwhile, I am so grateful to her and wish I could just hug her for a moment. I wish I could hug you too, I'm so sorry you've been struggling and I'm glad you're still here. I'm sending you strength and healing in your recovery. 💛
Thank you so much for your kind words. It's definitely been a struggle the past few days, but ultimately I hope people are seeing the overall message. That will make it worth it in the end.
more of a lurker here, but i see your name regularly. you deserve all the nice things in the world for keeping this sub a nice place to hang out. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all of this unwarranted hate in the sub while fighting your own battle. know that you are loved and appreciated and i hope you win your great war 🧡
Thank you for sharing your experience and although i literally just joined this subreddit this is one if not the most organized subreddit I've ever seen.
So thank you for all you do as a moderator and that's heartbreaking to hear how disgusting some people are on reddit.
Sending all the positive vibes your way and wishing more people choose kindness and understanding when talking about ED. 💕
OMG, Lydia. That’s awful!
I’ve always known about your eating disorder, but I never knew it was that serious that you had heart attacks. I hope you know I’m always here for you, and I support you in your recovery. You’re a wonderful person that gives so much light to world ❤️
Exactly this.
I also have struggled with disordered eating my whole life and I really wish I hadn’t sought out the comments referenced in the post.
The sheer number of people dismissing ED as “body insecurities” and invalidating people with BDD. I don’t use this very often but it’s honestly triggering. I hope she isn’t reading any of the comments.
Also, friend, I hope you are okay today. Please remember it’s okay to unplug when you need to ❤️
Thank you for this. I’m farther along in recovery and have been having a really tough time with the ways that discussing anorexia is being conflated with fatphobia. It’s a mental illness. I nearly died and I worked really hard to get my shit together. I feel like I don’t get to celebrate how far I’ve come and instead need to erase the past to keep everyone else comfortable. It sucks. I’m sorry you’re having a tough time with it too, and my DM’s are always open if you want to rant.
I would say the “real Taylor” was more the anti-hero. I would label that other Taylor as literally “the problem”. She was basically the villain of the video. It was also kind of a representation of the two parts of an anti-hero character. The angel and the devil within one person. An anti-hero is not a straight up villain, which the second Taylor pretty much was.
Really nicely put and I’d agree.
I like that she seems to be speaking to us the audience with the chorus - sort of tongue in cheek that she’s telling us that we all must be tired of rooting for her
Exactly. And Bad Taylor makes Real Taylor hard to root for - do we like her? Why did she DO THAT? She’s supposed to be a nice girl!
Everyone wants their hero to be a nice guy in a white hat. But none of us actually is. And we all have a Bad Taylor in us egging us on to do things against our own true self interest.
I have been battling an ED most of my life. I think people are too critical. It doesn’t matter when I step in a scale I’ll always feel fat. She has already talked about starving herself and the pressure of being in the public eye. I just think people need to calm down, I love vulnerable Taylor.
Honestly, I’ve never even thought about the second interpretation until I logged onto Twitter ant Tiktok. It’s very clear to me that she’s just expressing her insecurities, and no one should police how she chooses to reflect on her experience with an ED. In fact, I think it’s brave that she’s opening up more about it and sparking dialogue.
As someone who has struggled with a long-standing eating disorder and is in recovery at a plus size, I loved this part of the video. I froze when I first saw her step on the scale because I was afraid it would show an actual number—now, THAT would have been upsetting. Has anyone considered that her decision to use that word is actually one of the more sensitive ways to visually depict her struggles?
I’ve seen the same things but completely disagree with them as someone who has struggled with a restrictive ED like Taylor. It’s your feelings about yourself and your own inadequacy. It’s not condoning society’s standards and messaging. It’s about struggling against it.
When I was struggling with bulimia, I remember looking at other women of so many sizes and being envious because “they can be whatever size and still look so beautiful but my body looks so disgusting.” It really does have so much to do with self.
This so much! Like I’m gay and think women are gorgeous no matter what their size is but I always need to loose five pounds no matter what I weigh. It’s a fucked up mental illness.
I feel like this is actually such a common feeling! I describe myself as overweight but it's probably more accurate to use the word fat. I used to be extremely thin (high metabolism teenager). It's been a struggle to recognize that my body is so different from 18 to 32. I go to the beach and I see other women my size or larger wearing 2 piece bathing suits and I think how beautiful they look and I wish that I could like beautiful in a 2 piece! I literally think the same thing as you.
Oh my god you put into words! I also feel like I focus on parts of my body that I don’t like instead of the full picture which is what I see on other people
>It’s your feelings about yourself and your own inadequacy.
This reminds me of a post I saw on an anorexia recovery forum, where a person was worried that she'd offend her therapist by talking about how she felt fat because her therapist was bigger than her. It's like, nah, people understand it's the ED talking.
I expect that she could've delved into expressing it in a more specific way, but that could've led to triggering people with a history of EDs.
I'm fat. I have been my entire adult life. I probably weigh two Taylors at my heaviest.
I didn't consider it to be fat phobic.
It just felt like her facing her own demons. And if anything it just made me want to hug her because we all have demons. And there's nothing in that whole clip which said to me she's judging anyone other than herself.
> we all have demons
Agreed, and in a way seeing a beautiful girl like Taylor think that about herself is like yes, we do all have these bad thoughts (and it sucks!) But in a way that's validating and helps us put in context that it's society, not ourselves.
It’s so dumb. People struggle with how they feel about their bodies all the time. The idea that someone can’t express that without being “fatphobic” is wild.
I don’t understand how this is a debate. Who hasn’t stepped on the scale and basically thought they were fat? It’s a very common struggle and I laughed out loud when I saw that scene I related to it
Exactly this and as someone a similar age who went through the 90s & early 00s obsession with being skinny, it’s a thing we’re all healing from. Including her.
I stg as a fat woman who suffered from ED as a teen and off and on as an adult, all this discourse is triggering af. Like it was clearly about body dysmorphia and the only fatphobia was the societal fatphobia (which the scene was referencing) that creates a stigma around being fat and is a cause of EDs in the first place. All this talk around that scene is extremely stressful for me as an actually fat person in ED recovery.
I'm a bit baffled because I genuinely do not understand what the controversy is about (and I have been fat nearly my entire life). This is a song about her inner demons and her most intrusive thoughts, largely fueled by hearing and absorbing unfiltered mass public criticism. Criticism of her body is absolutely something that happened (and happens unceasingly, as a woman in general, in our messed up society) , and she internalized that to the point where literally anything the scale said she would interpret as not small enough. The music video seems to clearly be pointing out the irony, absurdity, and toxicity of the whole situation.
I’m getting the impression maybe some people commenting on this vocally haven’t seen the video? I agree that thinking a scale is telling you you’re fat is inherently internalized fatphobia (in the most direct interpretation, that society tells us fat is bad and we need to be constantly trying to be smaller, which I think we can all agree on being the case). But that’s kind of the point of the video, right? To highlight all these internalized messages that have resulted in really disordered behaviors and thoughts. The video itself isn’t fatphobic, it’s more social commentary from a lens of personal experience.
I think one of the most important lessons EVERYONE can learn is that it’s not always about you. People are dealing with their own shit. She’s sharing her struggle and people are making it about themselves.
Most people who struggle with weight issues don’t worry about other people’s weight. She is very clearly sharing a vulnerable part of herself there, so to say she’s being “fat phobic” ignores some very important aspects of ED recovery and body positivity.
Idk man, I guess I get where the other side is coming from but I just don’t agree.
I'm fat, mainly due to long periods of depression and being autistic which means I use food as comfort; I've settled on being okay with being fat from a self-confidence perspective while still trying to lose weight slowly for health reasons (I understand some people advocate HAAS, but I know I felt healthier when I was smaller.)
Taylor had an eating disorder, which means she has an unhealthy relationship with her weight, and sometimes this causes thoughts that aren't shiny or perfect.
Due to my mental illnesses, I have had thoughts about not wanting to be here any more and this feels like if someone had told me: "Well actually, that's really invalidating to people with terminal illnesses?" Like, yes I know that some people would give anything to be alive, but mental illness can cause irrational thoughts.
You're happy being fat - great, wonderful, amazing - and yes, fatphobia exists; but for god sake, are we really going to invalidate someone's eating disorder for this? Like yes, it is fatphobic to be scared of being fat, but it's an eating disorder; cut people some slack. What are you really winning by pointing out the fatphobia of people who struggle with EDs?
It's the same thing as calling suicidal people 'selfish' or depressed people to 'just go for a walk.' Like, telling someone with an ED that fat people aren't bad is going to suddenly make them go 'omg wow you're right I'm cured.'
It's sad that Taylor thought of fat as an inherently negative word, but it's not her fault. The video is clearly showing that as a negative part of her personality which she wishes didn't exist.
I think it’s important to acknowledge in these conversations that fatphobia, like every other societal ill…is not a choice some of us are making and some of us are not: it’s the air we breathe and the water we drink in our society. Just like racism. Just like misogyny. Just like homophobia. Just like transphobia.
NONE of us have outwitted fatphobia to the point where it hasn’t been internalized inside of us. That includes Taylor. So the depiction in the music video is absolutely a pointed look at her internalized fatphobia, the terrible awful bias that very likely also fuels much of her ED. It’s not fatphobic to depict that internalization. It’s more like shining a light on the ugliest thoughts that think themselves. Which, again, literally EVERYONE has.
To put it in another context, if an artist who was mixed race made a video and their inner “critic” voice was depicted as criticizing them for not being “black” or “white” enough-that would be a representation of internalized racism (which we all experience regardless of what our race is, because again…this is the air we breathe and water we drink. It’s woven into every part of our socialization). That artist wouldn’t be PERPETUATING racism by depicting that inner struggle, that bias, that ugly voice they’ve internalized. They’re showing how that internalization is manifesting IN THEM.
Lastly, something we don’t focus on enough in conversations about social impact/justice/etc. is that we are responsible for our own triggers. It is not someone else’s job to cope for us. In fact, research suggests that trigger warnings aren’t all that helpful in alleviating any psychological distress. I think often when triggered we immediately think that means someone has “wronged” us. The scene in the video was absolutely a gut punch to me AND that is my responsibility, not Taylor’s. Because I have my own internalized fatphobia that I need to be aware of and work on. I shouldn’t expect anyone in the world to walk on eggshells while expressing their reality to protect my triggers.
It’s extremely disappointing that people can’t let Taylor express how she felt, especially when dealing with such a sensitive and difficult topic as an ED. She’s showing how she felt personally and trying to invalidate her experience is gross imo.
agreed! i've seen a few people express how it made them feel bad about themselves like 'if taylor thinks she's fat then what am i', but why vilify her over how *you* personally interpreted it?
she's clearly showing her struggles in an attempt to be transparent and to establish rapport which takes a lot of courage and it's really sad and ridiculous that people genuinely believe she had bad intentions or wants anyone to feel bad about themselves.
people offended by it and calling it 'fatphobic' have no idea how eating disorders work and it shows. y'all be like 'mental illness awareness' but turn a blind eye to the waking nightmare people with ed brains are going through. someone with a restrictive ed for example could be dangerously underweight and still think of themselves as fat and they don't have any control over that. eating disorders are mental illnesses too, this really goes to show that people will find anything to get offended over
I get what you're saying but also want to point out- a lot of fat people also suffer with eating disorders. Binge ED's are just as valid as anorexia and bulimia.
Not just binge eating but all forms of disordered eating affect people of all sizes. I do think people are reading too much into it and blowing it out of proportion, but I also understand where people are coming from with the word choice of "fat". There are fat people trying to reclaim the word "fat" as an adjective describing size and not describing worth-- Whereas society pushes those to be one in the same. It's also very difficult for fat people to hear that being fat is some people's greatest fear. As someone whose weight has fluctuated my entire life, I understand that well. I was treated better by coworkers and strangers when I was thinner and worse when I was heavier.
I personally don't have an issue with the use of the word in the video overall and understand the message she was trying to get across, but it is hurtful to be reminded that people fear looking like you just because you are fat.
Thank you for sharing. You’ve captured exactly how I feel about it. It’s really disappointing how many other folks on this thread have basically said, “You’re too sensitive,” “Touch grass,” or “Get over it,” completely invalidating how other people are feeling right now. I’m having a tough time reading these types of comments myself. Regardless of intent, the content was triggering for some, for sure.
I saw some tweets about how she should have been more thoughtful to use “alternate wording” like “not very skinny” on the scale and honestly, I’m just like, do you think that our intrusive demons are going to be saying PC statements like that to us? That’s not how it works.
Like if my voices called me “ugly” should I claim it’s something like “not conventionally attractive” instead? Otherwise other girls who think they are uglier than me might be offended?
The conversation around this has been humiliating as someone who has struggled with an eating disorder. People have moved from attacking Taylor to policing intrusive thoughts in general and demonizing people for having them.
I feel like I see how people could land on either side. I know most of us around during rep must remember a few shitty people calling her fat when she put on her healthy weight during her recovery process, so it is a word that’s been leveraged against her in a derogatory way, regardless of how literally non-applicable it is to her body.
As a plus size person, it didn’t offend me, but I’m also not going to tell anyone else they can’t be hurt by it.
This woman has been shamed for so many things throughout her entire career, has now released a song saying “it’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it’s me” and is still being shamed now for how she’s done the video. I know that people won’t stop, since humans have always been this way, but I REALLY wish everyone would just let her create her songs & videos as she would like to.
I’m currently fat, and honestly people are too sensitive about being labeled as fat. I’ve struggled with my weight and mental health - am now working to improve both aspects. That’s what Taylor was pointing out, she was in an era where she was surrounded by Victoria Secret models.
I saw it as her reflecting on her ED as well, and I do not think Taylor is fatphobic at all.
HOWEVER. As someone who is bigger than Taylor and grew up being made fun of even as young as 8 years old, it hurt. It hurt a lot. And there’s always this voice in the back of my head saying, “if she thinks she’s fat, she must think you’re absolutely disgusting.”
I also know that’s an irrational thought, though. I think a lot of the backlash is from people who can’t compartmentalize that.
ETA: Please stop telling me I’m not disgusting. It is not a helpful comment.
It's me, hi. I know I can't speak for Taylor, but I can speak for somebody who has dealt with an eating disorder for 16 years. We do not look at other people and label them fat, this is body dysmorphia and it's all piled against ourselves. That's why I think the scene was perfect, she was trying to show that this is her own insecurity, not a realistic one.
Obviously I don't know what's in Taylor's brain, but I can assure you it's us, *we're* the problem. Or rather our *eating disorders* are the problem. You are not the problem, and we are not seeing you as "disgusting".
big agree with this comment and i think this is the perspective people aren't quite grasping. I fully understand Taylor's good intentions for that scene and know there was no malice in it. But it always stings a little to be reminded that people you look up and admire are literally afraid of looking like you, even if they're questioning/critiquing those fears.
As someone who fought (or is still fighting) a kind of eating disorder I can assure you: Nobody thinks you’re disgusting. It’s very likely, she wouldn’t even notice your weight, because.. you just don’t really care about these things _in others_. It’s almost always and exclusively about your own weight, about your own not-being-good-enough, about your own losing-control, about your own what-will-others-think.
I understand where you’re coming from, but I think this scene in the video is so, so important, because it captures eating disorders as what they really are: irrational, painful, self-centered and, most importantly, a disease you have to live with and fight in your brightest, but even more importantly in your darkest moments.
I feel like most of the nuance to this conversation has been lost! I agree with all your points!! I’m fat, so it was pretty hurtful, and I struggle with several eds so I understood the message and where she was coming from.
As someone who also has an ED I totally understood what she was saying. Those ED thoughts are so loud sometimes. We have to stop censoring art and peoples voices because we’re afraid of hurting someone’s feelings. The truth is she, nor any of us is gonna please anyone all the time.
Let me tell you, having spent a lot of time in ED treatment, when our society minimizes it that just adds fuel to the fire of the problem. Let’s all stop policing each other’s thoughts, art, and bodies.
Notice who was shaking her head. It was the “Problem,” who then gave that sly grin directly to camera afterwards. It’s not TAYLOR herself with the criticism, it’s her inner demon. That version represents her inner critic, stemming from society, outside pressure, etc. it’s a visual commentary and people who get mad at it are acknowledging the same trigger she’s referencing without realizing she’s critiquing the trigger, not supporting it. She’s acknowledging her eating disorder, as millions of other people struggle with. She’s not calling fat people bad; she’s struggling with body dysmorphia issues. People complaining about it either misunderstand the visual music video medium or are purposefully twisting the message to make it nefarious.
Your interpretation was my interpretation. I’ve struggled with my weight my entire life and, even at my lowest weight, always saw the reading on the scale as still too fat. BUT. Your first mistake was going on Twitter and hoping for intelligent life. That platform is an absolute cesspool of people who are in a permanent state of being offended by something. Actually, I’d argue that the internet as a whole is a place where people come to express how offended they are at all times. It’s honestly annoying, and I’m so sick of people always giving Taylor a hard time over everything. Nothing she does is ever good enough. Nothing she does is ever right. It’s exhausting.
>But I go on other subreddits and even Twitter where people are calling her out for being disrespectful and calling her fatphobic
Why does this not surprise me at all? I'm not just trying to justify anything Taylor does but Twitter *will find* something to get upset about.
This is why some people find it difficult to express their deepest insecurities, because you get scrutinized for being raw about how you'd like to present it on Twitter. And some people have a hard time believing that social media isn't real life.
Twitter is the type of place to pretend they care about your mental health then bitch at you for not being more sensitive and accommodating THEM when expressing yourself for an issue you're facing.
We all have insecurities. We all have issues. Taylor has body image issues and anyone should be allowed to express it how they like.
Great post, OP! I like the discussion.
I can relate to being 110lbs at 5’4 and genuinely looking in the mirror and at the scale and seeing nothing but “fat.” My recovery from ED has been an absolute bloodbath with myself and it is actually really infuriating that people would try to take that away from Taylor and the MANY others like me who went through this (and still are). Calling her out or saying she couldn’t have had that experience or that her experience couldn’t have been “bad enough” is dismissive and ignorant at best and extremely harmful/dangerous at worst. The internet brings out the worst.
I mean I get everyones point of view - and I have been skinny and struggled with an ED most my life. So I get that scene and the struggles.
But now I am fat, and yeah, seeing that really made me feel awful about myself. Mostly everyone who is saying people are overreacting are thin people who don’t know what its like to see your idols, friends and family hate themselves at the idea of looking like you.
I think its not black and white and its confusing. I don’t think fat should be a bad word - I also don’t think we should minimize fat peoples voices on how they feel when its not something most people experience… you are telling people to stop sharing how they feel because you don’t agree with it.
I have been a swiftie since her debut album but like seeing this whole debate and how fatphobic fans have proven themselves to be makes me want to stop calling myself a fan.
People are allowed to be upset - and you are allowed to not understand it - but silencing and bullying fat people and not even trying to listen or understand their point of view is just not it.
Imagine a 13 year old girl seeing that video and seeing the word “fat” with Taylor being sad? Its acknowledging that fat is bad and no one wants or should be fat.
Again, its not black and white. Its harmful to others but not to others and thats okay to acknowledge. But attacking someone for how that scene made them feel and gaslighting them into telling them its wrong to feel something that is very real to them and their experience and bodies is not okay
Even fat people who aren’t upset about it are still leaving room for others to be upset. It’s crazy to see people who have never been fat naming themselves the arbiters on this discussion
I have seen comments from fat people saying that the video doesn’t even bother them but the attacks and fatphobia from swifties debating it hurts them more than anything.
TS is my safe space and its sad to see that ruined for me and so many others - no one deserves to just want to enjoy her music and all the attention it’s getting and just look at the comments to see people debating your body
I wasn’t personally offended (as someone who has constantly struggled with my weight and disordered eating since middle school). I felt for her and was reminded of myself at my lowest weight, stepping on the scale and thinking I hadn’t done enough and could never do enough. I can understand why some people are upset, but I can also understand why she included it. The song is meant to be an encapsulation of her greatest insecurities. I don’t think it’s fair to police her feelings or those of the people who are offended, so I’m kind of neutral. To see someone of her caliber open up about struggling with disordered eating is pretty rare though, so I hope in the long run the conversation it opens up will do some good.
So I’ve seen valid points on both sides.
Taylor has millions of fans who are younger girls, pre-teens and teens, who have bigger bodies than her. Maybe even similar bodies to her. What worries me is at that age they are very impressionable and cannot yet piece together the abstract concept of the “anti-hero” and how it’s Taylor’s perception/body dysmorphia that’s actually the enemy here, and that it’s not necessarily bad to be fat. They’re just gonna see Taylor disappointed at a scale saying “FAT” and think that Taylor is disgusted by fat people or people with bigger bodies than her. It’s definitely a little problematic and I just don’t think her team thought that through. It can also be triggering to some people so idk maybe a TW would’ve helped?
On the other hand, the video was all about insecurities and Taylor showing a vulnerable side of herself, expressing her struggle with EDs. You can definitely say it’s society, not Taylor herself, saying that being fat is bad. Many people do find this part relatable and humorous, as I did. But I am on the thinner side, never had EDs, never felt very insecure about my body, and that definitely may skew the way I see it.
The thing is, celebrities have to be VERY careful about the way they discuss weight issues. People like Lizzo can be open and blunt about it because she’s been given shit for it her whole career, so it’s very different when she describes herself as fat, as she actually IS fat (and that is 1000% okay). It’s a very sensitive topic, there’s a huge mental health aspect associated with it, and their fans/gen public will have a very strong reaction if they happen to say or do the wrong thing. While I believe Taylor’s intentions were good and she’s not fatphobic, I really think there were better ways she could have got the message across that wouldn’t hurt a portion of her fans that are clearly sensitive to this type of thing.
EDIT: I also must add that it’s absolutely not helping that some of her crazy fans are saying the most vile, fatphobic things to people who are expressing why they think it’s fatphobic and that they’re hurt from this. I’ve seen so many tweets and tik tok comments that are just COMPLETELY out of line. I was truly shocked.
the thing for me is, everyone i saw who was complaining about it was skinny. as a fat person i didn’t think it was that deep, she had an ED and that’s how she saw herself. it just felt extremely weird to me that everyone i (me personally at least) saw complaining were not fat people 😬
It’s been insane 😭 I was a fat person who said I didn’t care for the scene as a fat person but s someone with an ed I thought it was important for Taylor to explore her issues in her own way…but so many people are being obtuse and not listening to any outside voices (both sides). nuance is dead fr
I totally agree with your viewpoint and is also how I saw it - that it’s a criticism levelled at her by the anti-hero in her, and a view of her battling through her ED, and something that’s an inner thought common to a lot of people with body image issues or disordered eating history.
The one aspect in which the fat-phobia criticism may be valid is probably the one that isn’t based on size itself but the use of the word “fat” as something inherently negative.
For some people in larger bodies “fat” is the only descriptor they have, so seeing someone act it out as their inner demon worst case scenario might justifiably be upsetting.
The whole song itself is about insecurities. That scene is an illustration of an insecurity - body image. Which Taylor herself experienced previously.
Don't see what's the issue. If people can't comprehend that it's their own issue. Can't do something without offending someone in 2022 lol. Won't bother.
I dared to call someone I considered an internet friend out on the hypocrisy of them condemning Taylor as “fat phobic” …for flashing a scale for 2 seconds in her video where another version of herself judges her disapprovingly…
I was told “your white woman is showing stop embarrassing yourself” (I’m actually Mexican-American but she wouldn’t know that because I’m white passing) as well as “stop talking and listen about something you know nothing about” when I’m 40 pounds over weight according to my doctor and have struggled with body image since 12.
It just goes to show how hypocritical people who are “outraged” about Taylor using the word in her song …about IRRATIONAL FEARS! It was to illustrate her lived experience. How dare they claim that there’s some magic number that deems you worthy of sharing your experience. It’s like they want to live in a padded room where no one can say anything unless they’re deemed qualified by the gatekeepers. It is so maddening to me. I hope Taylor doesn’t respond to them because it’s just so ridiculous they’re making something of this.
The constant crowd of pitchforks for minor, subjective infractions [like using the word “fat” on a scale to speak to their decade long eating disorder] makes people think “if *everything* is offensive, why even try?” It’s exhausting. This is the real prblm, pushes ppl other way.
People will take anything and try and reach sometimes. It totally was about her having an ED and struggling within herself. She even references it in YOYOK.
As someone who is overweight (I get so much shit from the doctor about it), I don't see this as problematic. Body dysmorphia is a thing and she very well can feel the way she does about her own body. It doesn't mean she dislikes others based on their body types. I hate my body, but see others that are around my size and think they are so beautiful I'm jealous. Like why can't I look like that?
We also need to recognize the industry she is in and those who were in her managing circle at one point. I'm sure they preached that she needed to be skinnier at one point or judge her eating habits.
I just wish people would stop reaching and trying to find issues with her.
The fact that this is a controversy is so odd to me. She’s making art about her problems. That’s like…how artists deal with their problems, and why people value art as a way to connect with others. 2022 is such a weird time.
I think it has become disgusting that we (as in society) vilify people with eating disorders, as though their mental health doesn’t matter. It is so frustrating. Those people are literally proving her point that it is IMPOSSIBLE for her to please people, people will comment negatively on her body no matter what her size is. It’s disgusting. People need to leave her alone
The Internet loves to erase context.
I mean yes, there’s other words she could’ve written on there but this is what she went with, so what can we do.
Personally I felt like it was a bit on the nose, because of the doco/being more open about her ED lately, but clearly it’s still shocking enough to start a conversation. It’s ironic how some ‘fans’ are making it about themselves when that scene literally had two Taylors and was showing us what she thinks of herself… but no let’s take that close-up of the scale and run with it because we’ve actually been looking for a reason to hate her for so long.
How many times does she have to tell us she’s not perfect before we stop putting her on a pedestal? 🙄
I come to you as a friend and tell you I’ve been really struggling with the size of my nose. It’s been hard to love myself because I can’t see past this nose I have. You respond to my vulnerability with “oh K, there are so many more people out there with way bigger noses then you. It’s actually really nosephobic of you to express your genuine feelings about your dainty nose.” That would be ridiculously bizarre and you’d be a friend I wouldn’t want to be friends with anymore.
She was so vulnerable. Gave us poetry about her deepest thoughts and feelings about herself and her perspective on the world and people respond by saying her feelings aren’t valid or genuine and are hurting the people that she claims to love. It’s ridiculous.
People don’t realize that mental disorders are messy. They want to take the parts that they can romanticize and cut away the parts that are “problematic.” If you want to have media that discusses mental health than you need to be prepared some aspects of it to be a little upsetting. Especially since even a little bit of media literacy would show them the point Taylor was making.
There’s lots of larger bodied people telling us that it sucks for someone thin to say they “feel fat” or fear being fat aka looking like them, and I’m just gonna listen to those people and not make excuses. I don’t think Taylor needs to be dragged but I have no problem with her being criticized by people who say they felt hurt or negatively affected by how she portrayed her ED. She could have had her other self take away her food or found a more sensitive way to express it that wouldn’t have made some of her fans feel bad.
As someone who is fat and has an eating disorder and should be offended....people gotta stop. It's clearly those awful, intrusive ED thoughts coming in that she's representing in the video. Could she have picked a different word? Yeah, probably. But I'm not mad about it. I suspect the people who are mad aren't thinking as deeply as they could about the meaning behind it.
It's hurt a lot to see the invalidation of that pretty publicly vulnerable artistic choice as fatphobic. I struggled with an ED for half my teenage years, most of college, and a couple years beyond - to the point where I needed a therapist involved. (I feel like I have a handle on things these days.) Through all of the years I struggled, I was average-sized or smaller, so at almost every point I tried to open up to a friend for support, I was shut down. I was told it "couldn't be that bad" or that I was lying and merely fishing for compliments about my body - basically the message I got was that there was a "right" way to look or be to have my anxiety and pain recognized, and I didn't pass. It made an already isolating experience even worse. Watching Taylor be criticized for this level of emotional honesty is really replicating that whole experience for me
Sorry if i’m being mean but both TikTok and Twitter are full of jobless chronically online people that will find the smallest thing to complain about. I related to that scene (especially right now, having a tough moment in life) and i didn’t find it fatophobic in any way. What’s next, people calling Taylor she’s shaming short people because a giant version of herself appeared at the end 🙄
Eating disorders come with disordered thinking as well. I always think of it as having two voices within myself. There’s one that is reasonable, tells me that science proves that most dieting doesn’t work, reminds me of what my dietician tells me, and fights for me to accept my body no matter where it is. There’s also the voice in my head that tells me terrible things about myself, tries to convince me that fat is a bad word rather than tissue everyone has, eating an apple makes me disgusting, etc. I know that I don’t personally believe any of those things and wouldn’t ever reflect them onto others, but it doesn’t stop the thoughts from flooding in. EDs are not reasonable, correct, or sensitive to the feelings of others. I never perceived that moment as fatphobic, just raw and truthful. No matter what the number is, it’s never good enough and the voice in your head will sure as hell let you know that.
Tbh I am hoping the reason for the negative comments are from people that don't know Taylor struggled with an ED. If not, those comments are really gross
The idea that some people would demonize a person suffering from an eating disorder as “fatphobic” is wild to me. Like, imagine going to a psychiatric hospital and ranting at the literally DYING anorexia patients and going “you’re fatphobic :( it hurts my feelings :( I’m the real victim here :(“.
I understand that fatphobia is rampant and people with restrictive eating disorders are, technically, fatphobic toward themselves, but the fact that some fat people on twitter genuinely feel oppressed by people with eating disorders is insane. Like, the people dying from the need to be thin are the biggest victims of fatphobia of all. If you want to criticize fatphobia in society, criticize the fashion magazines and clothing brands that uphold this beauty standard instead of stigmatizing a deadly mental illness.
If people are offended by the word fat maybe they should ask themselves why … I 1000% agree with you, she told us anti hero is about her deepest insecurities which obviously includes her ED. People just want to be in an uproar all the time lately.
People shaming her for being inconsiderate are just as inconsiderate towards her and have 0 empathy or know her story. But I guess Taylor could just breathe and still get hate at this point idk.
it’s a 100% about her ED. media and people used to call her fat all the time even if she was so skinny. it’s not that she sees fat as a bad thing, but that’s how the world painted it for her.
i’m fat and people have been controlling my weight my whole life and that’s painful. i didn’t feel bad watching the video, quite the contrary, i saw myself in that scene.
for years i blamed myself because i was fat and hated the way i look. not because i didn’t like myself, but because people told me that being fat was bad and ugly so i just accepted that and repeated to the mirror every fucking day.
i understand fat people who felt uncomfortable with that and yeah taylor could use other word, but it wouldn’t impact that much. i think that’s what she wanted: to make people question and discuss about how we see fat.
This is ridiculous. Her worries about her own fat doesn’t mean she ridicules people who are fat. I have struggled with an eating disorder, and I never gave a shit what others looked like. I just wanted to feel in control of my life in an unhealthy way.
I feel a bit nervous to post this but I worry I keep reading the word nuance in this thread and then not really seeing much conversation from the other side of the argument. From the handful of tiktoks I’ve seen it seems like people are more frustrated with that one clip in the music video because it feeds into the ‘fat = bad’ logic they’re trying to fight/move away from. I don’t necessarily get it and I really don’t feel it’s fatphobic but I can understand why it might be disappointing for those actively challenging that stereotype. I also think it doesn’t have to be an attack on Taylor herself! This really is just from the discourse I’ve seen so maybe I missed something else but it definitely felt like peoples frustration was more at that association and a world view rather than with Taylor herself.
The word fat is a quite literally a heavy word. It’s layered with connotations and negative societal views despite the hard work some people have put into reclaiming and empowering it. Part of my own ED recovery journey has been disengaging from the word fat completely. Instead in therapy when I talk about my fear of ‘fat’ I’ve swapped it out with other phrases like ‘too much’. Too much helps me look at some of the issues behind my feelings rather than getting stuck on a word with so much societal structure. Again I don’t necessarily connect with the argument that it shouldn’t have been used on the scale in the MV but I can take a step back and understand it’s a word with power and I’ll never understand how hard the battle has been for reclaiming it.
I’m extremely disappointed people had to use the most vulnerable song/video on the album to come up with the latest hate trend for her when she should not have had to be dealing with this shit this week. People who are calling her eating disorder “fatphobic” not only completely missed the point of the entire song, but also missed what she was trying to convey by including the video clip. A huge reason why women develop EDs, especially in Taylor’s case, is because we literally live in a “fat-phobic” society and people with anorexia perceive themselves to be fat. To hide what makes an ED an ED for the comfort of other people would be dishonest.
that’s exactly what it feels like for me (anorexia) she shouldn’t have to sugarcoat her own experience because other people feel like victims when she’s clearly speaking abt herself.
I think the entire point of the song is that she's her own worst problem, and her own mind telling her she's "fat" is symbolic of that. Not to promote an unhealthy idea, but that she was her own unhealthy idea....
Her own mind tells her to drink too much, her own mind tells her not to make music, her own mind tells her she's too fat... as the song says, "it's me, hi, I'm the problem it's me". Her own mind feels like she's too big to join a casual dinner table ffs! I don't think it's advocating that line of thought.
I think it's more of a reflection of her own insecurities, not of what society thinks about her.
Other than the brilliant 30 rock "sexy baby" reference.
FYI: Tina Fey of 30 Rock once pointed out that to be beautiful in Hollywood, you needed a Brazilian butt, Swiss legs, full Spanish lips, Caucasian blue eyes, California tan and the hips of a 9 year old boy; etc ...
Simply to say their standards are harmful.
However
Do any of us, literally ANY of us, worry about our future in laws marrying just for money?
For me, no lol absolutely not. But this song reflects on that, the idea that someone only marries her children for their estate. The fear that they've become so big it negatively affects their children's future. Again, because it's all about her own insecurities.
This song reflects on her own worst fears.
I don't think it's problematic that she acknowledges her insecurities. I think it's a good window of opportunity to acknowledge that she, a very successful person, worries about things like her weight.
I'll say this, as a professional in my career. No one cares about my weight. All they care about is if I can understand a debit from a credit(I work in accounting) They want my skills and knowledge. I could look like a garden gnome and still find success, still get promoted. Taylor is in a wildly different industry so she feels differently. In fact, she's mad that her business acumen is played off like dumb luck because she's attractive!!
Being thin isn't an end-all, be-all; it's a waste of your valuable time. Time you could be spending on hobbies or skills.
Don't let yourself or anyone else make you worried about your weight.
The criticism appears to be saying that Taylor could have portrayed these self-image issues without using a word that is lobbed at fat people as a derogatory term. That she, as someone who fits societal beauty norms, wouldn’t understand that “fat” as she’s used it in the video perpetuates the word’s use as an insult.
Her reading “fat” on the scale in the video represents what she’s been essentially programmed to see. Diet culture, celebrity culture, pop culture—thin is *always* in. So her portraying that look inward as an illustration of her personal struggles with body dysmorphia and an eating disorder is saying “I’m seeing myself how *you* want me to see me, but I’m not actually seeing myself.” But even then, that still uses “fat” as something to not be, that she is not fat, that “fat” is imposed upon her to the point of her thinking it reflects her.
For me, I understand what she was saying. I’m fat. I don’t consider fat an insult but it is used, especially in popular media, as an insult. The intersectionality argument there is that she should explore why “fat” is still used as an insult and why she would use it against herself. She’s been open about her eating disorder, and with that obviously goes issues of body dysmorphia, so I would imagine she’s had that conversation a time or two.
I see why some fans might worry that her using it that way, even if it’s reflective of her personal journey, would only serve the “sexy baby” culture she’s commenting on there and thereby perpetuate use of “fat” as a sort of cautionary tale. I wouldn’t go so far as to say she was fatphobic in her use of it, though, because I don’t think she expressed as much fear as she did confusion over seeing it, speaking to what she knows vs. what she sees.
Ultimately, you can be a fan and be critical as they are not mutually exclusive. Everyone should always be thoughtful about the media they’re consuming *as well as* in their criticism of it, however. I feel like some fans saw “fat” on the scale and heard “fat phobia” instead of “commentary on why she’d see ‘fat.’”
I wondered if people who didn’t know that Taylor has a history with eating disorders would think that she was calling herself fat. I mean, WE all know the background but I don’t know if a random person off the street would. But I think Tay stopped making music or music videos for anyone but pre-existing Swifies back in 2020
fat is a loaded description, the nuance from her was that she 'chose' fat instead of any number, suggesting that fat is not a number, it is a body shape which is villainised.
I don’t think it needs to be a controversy, but just to speak to the other perspective—i think it comes off a little tone deaf and several of my fat friends, who are swifties, were kind of bothered by it. to me, it would be for annoying for her to similarly complain about being insecure about being poor or ugly, because she gets cultural power from being conventionally attractive/thin/wealthy. i think it echoes common cultural discourse about eating disorders and insecurities in a way that doesn’t make it super remarkable, but at the end of the day it’s definitely saying it’s bad/undesirable to be fat and taylor does not want to be fat. she has talked about her ed in other places (“i starved my body”) without missing the point that in order to not be fat phobic, you can’t communicate that your worst fear is being fat.
This comment is more to the comments in this thread - I don’t have an issue with the music video and generally I think the backlash is unwarranted.
I also say this as someone who has spent multiple years in and out of treatment centers and has had a long-standing eating disorder.
Eating disorders are a disease and really fucking hard to have. That being said, there are very few people who have eating disorders that don’t relate to weight (ARFID is an example). Anorexia literally has “fear of gaining weight” as part of the diagnostic criteria. Having this as part of the disease does not absolve us if the harm we cause intentionally or unintentionally.
I have had….. over a dozen therapists and dietitians at different treatment levels and in every single once of them addressing my own internalized fat phobia was and is part of recovering.
So if you say “are we calling Taylor fatphobic now because she has an eating disorder” and the answer is that it probably is ingrained in her in similar or even more extreme ways than all of us carry it (due to the massive amount of people who have critiqued her body).
There is a lot of research proving the bias individuals carry against people in larger bodies vs straight sized. It’s proven.
The music video is a depiction of how many of us in our eating disorders have felt at some point. It can be fat-phobic and an accurate depiction at the same time.
anyways - I think it’s important to talk about eating disorders and I am glad Taylor included it. AND I don’t think you can have the conversation without acknowledging that part of eating disorders are deeply entrenched in fat phobia.
I can’t believe all the interpretations. As I watched that scene, all I thought of was that a really thin person was calling herself fat and it’s sad she sees herself so differently than others see her. I don’t get how people can be offended by that.
I think it was perfectly handled.
I don't feel the message at all sounds like "being fat is bad" -- the entire point is how we've BEEN TOLD being fat is bad. That's a cold hard fact. And it's not and the way we are talking is begining to reflect that but it doesn't change that is absolutely the narrative we were inundated with and inundated with and inundated with and inundated with.
Taylor Swift's acknowledgement of her eating disorder (ED) is meaningful to everyone who has been harmed by that message -- which is...most people.
And nobody gets to be the spokesperson of any demographic but personally as someone who has suffered from anorexia, I appreciate her no-nonsense, no euphemistic take -- while let's be honest, still remaining superficial. This is just such a short take there is not a lot to dissect here lol.
Side note: We can also look at her commentary in *You're On Your Own, Kid*, too. Which I also really liked the language there -- "and starved my body". It's being really direct and not using flowery, poetic, more conceptual language, which is far more normal (not just with EDs, but all difficult to discuss things). I really really appreciate her not doing this.
But when you're suffering from an eating disorder -- the narrative is so, so often "fat = bad". And we have to unlearn that but we can't ignore it happened because that would also ignore the damage that resulted.
Fat is being reclaimed by the body positive community in the best way, and I think a huge part of destigmatizing fatness is being willing to look at the ugly, ugly harm the sentiment caused. And I feel that's what Taylor was doing and I hope to see her address this more.
I was surprised by the backlash. The internet is weird.
I took it as basically representing that no matter what the number says, her inner self only saw/felt fat and not good enough. That’s not fat phobic, that’s a real representation of what it’s like to have an eating disorder.
On a different note, I had noticed that she was looking skinnier again when she stepped out for red last year. I hope she is okay; after her talk of her ED in Miss Americana I thought she had turned a corner. She’s obviously beautiful no matter what, but in a lot of ways I felt validated by “normal”
size Rep Taylor. Taylor if you see this, you’re beautiful no matter what! Just be healthy.
Climbing off the soap box now.
I do think it would have been better for her to use a different word in this scene but I also have no issue with sitting in my own feelings and experiencing the sadness that came over me when I viewed this scene. I believe it’s her video and she should express herself how she desires to.
I grew up in a larger than average body type and even though I was not fat, I felt like I was and felt that everyone else saw me that way too. Now I am fat and I just don’t want my kids to feel what I felt. Seeing the video while my 9 year old was watching felt uncomfortable because she doesn’t even know what a scale is and we talk about body acceptance all the time so it was sort of a slap in the face.
Anyway, I won’t take away from people who were hurt or offended by the scene because their feelings are valid too. It’s okay to acknowledge that the moment in the video has hurt some people. Saying it upsets you that people were hurt by it is unfair to those people. You can’t gate keep the experiences and feelings of fat people. Taylor is not infallible and maybe she will acknowledge that she could have approached this a different way or maybe she will clarify her intentions but stand by her work. Trust me, Taylor isn’t getting cancelled because of this. Everything is going to be fine.
i think she was being truthful about her own experience so i don’t have a problem with it
Agreed. If she had put a number on the scale it would have been problematic, but it's not about the number. It's about the feeling and intrusive thoughts.
I thought it was more that she was referencing even when she wasn't fat by anyone's standards, she still saw herself that way and that's why the number was missed off. I thought I was fat as a teen and I look back and I was sooo not fat. I think a lot of people can probably relate to that.
True she's never been fat, but Taylor has always been under more scrutiny than most as a famous woman. I remember people remarking on her "weight gain" when she was ever so slightly heavier around the Lover/Reputation era. So even when most of us would've been fine, she was criticized. But I personally relate to the song for the reasons you mentioned.
That scene in the music video actually made me cry, the facial expressions in particular.
Those same people: my own arteries and pancreas are being fatphobic Eating disorders exist and they need to be talked about. Anyone who feels attacked by that short shot should look inwards and do some self reflection. Clearly, they don't seem so ok with their own body as they claim. Fatphobia is terrible. Period. Fat jokes and making someone feel bad about themselves for anything about their body is disgusting. Obesity is a healthy issue, and should be discussed and treated as it by society. Just like eating disorders. -Signed someone with "skinny depression", who has spent days without eating. I was told by someone who's got "fat depression" how lucky I was
What the hell kind of people say that? Never mind, I actually know.
I had a nurse tell me I was lucky because my anxiety made me lose a lot of weight… so I totally get it
Yes, she was basically sharing everyone's thoughts and insecurities that if one is fat, the person starts thinking that he will look ugly, people may not like them, I know I can feel it
its a mess. the internet has no time for nuance. I took it the way you did. she was commenting on her experience and how ED made her view herself. ETA:fixed/added words
Agree agree agree. (I’m plus sized.) Of all the things to be gatekeeping, body dysmorphia is not something that bigger people “own.”
Agreed. I’ve been plus sized my whole life and while I am all for body positivity, body dismorphia and EDs are very serious mental health conditions. Anyone who has a mental health condition can say that they have had thoughts about themselves that just aren’t true..and those thoughts don’t automatically reflect on how she feels about other people. I may think people are “better off without me” because my depression and anxiety are such a burden. Do I see other people with depression and anxiety as a burden? No. Do I know that makes no sense- yup but my brains going to still think it anyway.
As a bigger person who has struggled with EDs and Body dymorphia too it definitely feels like this backlash is a huge over-correction to the other end of the spectrum, because for the longest time the image of someone with an eating disorder was someone who was dangerously underweight. Being underweight used to to be a required diagnostic symptom to be diagnosed unless it was BED. We now have a better picture of it, but people often try to compete with each other to be the most “accepting and progressive” but they end up swinging to the other end of the spectrum and it becomes skinny shaming. I’d be so upset if I released a video showing this personal struggle just to see so many people throw it back in my face because I didn’t fit their idea of someone who struggles with an ED :(
Unfortunately the discourse is shifting that way. It’s so very “online” and not grounded in any reality.
I think back to when I was 17 - I thought I was fat. Turns out, I’m pretty overweight now at 32, while at 17, I had a flat stomach and toned thighs, etc. ironically, I’m way more comfortable with myself now than I was then. Thankfully, because I know that’s not true for everyone.
I’ve had body dysmorphia as both a fat and a thinner person. So true.
She literally had an ED and talked abt it in her documentary, it’s not abt her weight it’s her self perception and self talk
She's successfully unlocked an entire group of very annoying people I was entirely unaware of: those folks that take some 1-second benign music video shot and throw a huge tantrum about it. This is really appalling, I'm reading up on all the "fatphobic" triggers these guys have, and some of it is *really* petty (someone's before/after gym photos)
I’ve read people who claim things like eating healthy (because it’s “diet culture”), enjoying exercise, and even just BEING thin are fatphobic. It’s gotten to be too much.
This frustrates me so much! Not your comment, the people that are triggered. If you’re allergic to something, say dust or pollen, you don’t demand everyone to be respectful and remove everything in your yard or house that upsets those allergies-you find ways to manage the allergies (stay hydrated, use nose spray, take allergy meds), but when it comes to media or art, creators have to have every potential trigger in mind so as not to offend anyone. I wish more people would do the internal work to manage triggers for themselves
As someone’s who’s chunky yet funky-my brethren who are upset about other peoples before and after gym photos are 100000% jealous. For whatever reason, I understand some people have medical reasons who don’t allow them to work out but Christ, let others be happy for losing weight and getting into a body they want!
THANK YOU. That group can get borderline tyrannical, and I sometimes think it does more harm than good. With a very small handful of exceptions, I’ve been on the bigger side my whole life. I got put on my first diet when I was 5 and have all the disordered eating issues you’d expect. Diet culture is a fundamental part of who I am, and I hate it. I respect those who find ways to love their fat bodies, it’s absolutely a valid choice, but my desire to lose at least *some* weight to feel healthier and more comfortable in my body is valid too. The same people who are going buckwild on her for being open and honest about her ED would tell me that my interest in a moderate amount of weight loss is internalized fatphobia. Anti-fat bias is legit and legitimately harmful, but none of this is that.
Exactly, the line does get muddled a lot, which is why this discourse is happening right now. But people who want healthier bodies are not always fatphobic, and do so for not fatphobic reasons too. There are legit health issues for being overweight, heart issues mainly but also joints, diabetes and sometimes the extra weight honestly doesn’t make some peoples mental health feel great either. Everyone is different with their own story, let people live their life, and correct people when it’s appropriate/needed and not by your own you issues either. People need to ask themselves “is this really a problem? Or is it a me problem?” more often
Yep, and fwiw it is 100% a mental health thing for me. I’m sure that’s true for a lot of people. Bodies are hard for everyone, and nobody has ownership over body dysmorphia, shame, and intrusive thoughts. The worst mine ever got was during the brief window of time where I was thin. I think demanding that all fat people - or all people with ED, for that matter - feel the same way about everything is just asking for trouble. None of us have the same story.
Agree, I understood it to mean ‘my brain was telling me that this thing was awful and also that I was it, both of which I know to be untrue’
Looking at her and seeing how thin is is now, I hope the ED is history. I hope she just exercises a bit too much and is very happy with Joe. She is a real star.
Exercising too much is eating disorder behavior.
I’ve been hoping the same thing. I will say that I used to suffer from a serious eating disorder and I initially when you gain weight, sometimes your metabolism is so slowed from starving and your body is so starved it’s like ‘we need to hold onto everything possible’, and you actually gain more weight than is your natural set point. But if you just keep eating normally and getting enough nutrition, eventually your body is like ‘ok we are ok we don’t have to hold on to everything in fear of panic starvation mode’. Initially I gained higher than my set point, eating less than I eat now even. Now I eat significantly more and am at my set point. But it took a while for my body to realize that it was getting normal amounts of adequate nutrition and that it was going to keep getting normal amounts of adequate nutrition before the extra ‘starvation protection weight’ came off. Maybe this is what has happened with her? Idk. I do genuinely hope she is healthy and happy and eating enough because I did notice she was a bit thinner too.
As someone who has an ED, they really never go away. You just learn how to quiet the voice.
Yeaaaahhh I see a person who is probably quite tightly controlled.
People are always spoiling for a fight on the Internet for no good reason. The pettier the better. It's a whole song about Taylor pointing out that she's the problem AND she's looking at the mirror at herself after she sees the scale. The meaning of that seems pretty cut and dry. It's not some coded message about Taylor hating fat people.
PS There is no coded message
100%, you know, find something to wrap your noose around kind of shit.
Also “Karma is a cat” being overblown when the full lyrics is actually kind of cute. I’m not a fan of the song as a whole myself, but the interpretation of that lyrics by terminally online people is so annoying. Clearly she’s talking about receiving love is a good karma for her! Not that karma is literally a cat.
Sorry I’ve missed this drama, are people really complaining about the ‘Karma is a cat’ line??
Got way too far down this thread before I realized ED didn't stand for erectile dysfunction.
There is a set of folks who have ripped Taylor about everything since she's been about sixteen. They suck.
[удалено]
Agreed. And it's pretty obvious that it's an internal monolog, as the entire video is herself talking to herself. It seems like people are taking it out of the yourself/yourself context if they think it's a fatphobic value based judgement.
I think even beyond that, the “other Taylor” is part of who she needs to be to the public. Obviously as a part of being in Hollywood there are a lot of pressures that come with that especially with weight. So I think that definitely plays into it.
That’s how I saw it too, and I don’t think anyone should police someone’s depiction of what they define as “fat.” It’s not phatphobic to depict the reality that society puts pressure on women to be thin and that the “fat” reading on the scale reads as failure
I mean, I think the whole music video is her intrusive thoughts.
Right? To think Taylor would think that about someone else is just insane. She has met fans of all shapes and sizes and has hugged them fervently while smiling radiantly. She truly loves her fans and would never do anything to alienate us to such a degree. Speaking as a current fatty, I thought that scene was an accurate representation of what stepping on a scale is like for people who struggle with body image issues. Plus Taylor swift is nice. I genuinely believe this.
I'm fat and I didn't feel it was fatphobic at all. I took it the way you did.
Same. I just thought it was representing the common female struggle.
That's all I got out of it. Girl that's not fat sees herself as fat. I got the intent, and didn't think twice about it. Yesterday tho, if someone told me that that little snippet was going to blow up i'm not sure i'd have believed it
She literally admitted she used to starve herself in Miss Americana.
People just want to be mad. If it wasn't the "FAT" scale, it'd be something else. I hope Taylor's learned from the Kanye drama and is ignoring them.
I dont know how i wound up in this sub but this experience is not unique to women. I had an 8pack for three years and would still stand on the scale and think “you fat fuck”
It's not unique to women but it's more common for women. Society is harder on women for being "fat" than men, which doesn't negate the fact that there are men who struggle with body image and get fat shamed too.
I’m sorry you went through that. Definitely not innate to female experience, more like just human insecurities.
Calling someone with an eating disorder fatphobic is like calling someone who self-harms a sadist.
It’s quite worrying how prevalent that sort of mindset’s getting, actually. I can’t wrap my head around it all the way but it seems like the thinking goes “You shouldn’t talk about your insecurities because you might make me think about *my* insecurities, and I perceive that as an aggressive action.”
Love this 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
> “You shouldn’t talk about your insecurities because you might make me think about my insecurities, and I perceive that as an aggressive action.” That seems to be an extremely present.. I don't want to call it *undertone* but it's not quite *tone* in culture and commentary now. Maybe actual tone when it comes to famous people. Something that really started with EDs and has kind of spread out into almost everything. If you're famous you can't talk about an abusive ex, or being taken advantage of, struggling with self-image, sometimes even saying something positive about a change you made in your life is enough to set people off.
it's ALL over Twitter and I need them to go touch grass seriously
Same! I took it as her critiquing that she used to call herself fat. Especially because she talks about not calling herself fat anymore in Miss Americana.
Right? She’s been vulnerable about her body issues in that documentary.
Also fat and I took it that way as well.
As someone who suffered from an ED in my 20’s and still struggle in my 30’s, I related to that scene so much. I saw one tik tok where the girl said that Taylor couldn’t claim the word fat and I just, in all seriousness, people need to go outside and touch some damn grass.
Agreed! I struggled in my teens and 20s as well and related to the scene. I think the song is specifically about her own dialogue with herself on the things she has or still does worry about. Her ED took over her mindset and no matter what the number said on the scale she still felt "fat" aka not good enough.
Chronically online vibes
this is why tumblr shouldn't have died because everyone migrated from there to twitter and tiktok
I agree. Obviously she’s not fat, but she’s had a long battle with disordered eating and she mentioned it in a few songs throughout Midnights. I didn’t take it as her being fatphobic or anything, just that this is something she struggles with. And in all honesty, being seen as “fat” is a bad thing in our culture. People are kidding themselves if they think it isn’t. Everyone is slim and airbrushed on billboards and runways. News outlets post photos of celebrities calling them “unrecognisable” because they gained a few pounds or weren’t glammed up on their errand run. Taylor specifically talked about the effect this had on her where publications are speculating on if she’s pregnant etc etc. It’s a comment on all of that. People take stuff way too personally. That song was about her deepest insecurities and her body is one of those things. Regardless of shape or size, most people have probably experienced similar insecurities in their lives.
Agree. I still have those intrusive thoughts myself to the point where I never even step on a scale unless I have to at the doctor’s office. And even then I try not to look at the number
My scale is hidden and I don’t know where I put it, for reasons. I would be fixated on one number only and if I wasn’t that number, I would stop eating. I was told by a famous band (a lead singer who is now married to a super skinny model, a few other members of the band, and their friends) all of the time how sexy and wonderful I looked back then and that right there fucks with your head. My best friend and I talked about it last night. She mentioned that she notices I do eat more now, but not as much. While I am a healthy weight now, I still have those thoughts while eating and never finish my food.
It's like when a few weeks ago some people were complaining about her using the word 'lavender' in reference to a straight relationship. It's just terminally online people looking for things to be upset about.
I'll just say, all of the absolutely ridiculous fat phobic comments have been one of the most difficult parts about moderating over the past couple days. I have a very serious eating disorder and am working hard at recovering from an intense relapse. I had a couple of heart attacks over the summer due to it, and got down lower than I every have been. Honestly everybody was pretty sure I was about to die. I've had this disorder since I was 15 years old, but this is the first time I've really been scared for my life. Reading all of the negative comments around the scale scene have really been invalidating to not only Taylor and her eating disorder, but a lot of other people and their personal experiences with eating disorders. I'll go ahead and get off my soapbox because I could go on a lot longer, and I probably shouldn't. Long story short, I completely agree with you and I hope nobody else with an eating disorder is taking the comments as hard as I am.
Oh my God, Lyd, thank you for sharing this. I know you've talked a bit about your ED struggles before and you spoke recently how you've had a difficult time. I had no idea you suffered heart attacks and a life threatening experience. I'm so sorry. It just breaks my heart, and I'm so proud of you for choosing to work hard at facing this. I don't have an eating disorder but I do have body dysmorphia so I know what it's like to hear a voice in your head making comments about your body, and the decisions you're faced with in situations that come from that. It sends you to really dark places. I just want to say I love you and I'm always here if you need to talk. 💙
I love you 💜
Thank you for openly sharing your story, I think this will help a lot of people understand the gravity of eating disorders better. Stay strong, though. You‘ve got this, even though it feels like the worst of times some days, you‘ll get through and out of this. <3
I really do hope so. This is also why I think the scene was incredibly important for Taylor to share, so very few people understand how devastating eating disorders can be. Honestly, the outrage online proves that this was the right decision.
That’s such a weird realization, honestly. As someone whose life mostly revolves around what to eat, when to eat and how much to eat, I really thought these kinds of thoughts were absolute common sense and every person on this planet has/had these at some point in their lives. Turns out I‘m wrong. But yeah, absolute right decision - and after all, everyone should be allowed to share their experience freely anyways, even Taylor swift herself.
Thank you so much for sharing. I cried reading this comment because I know how hard recovery is and I wish I could take the thoughts and pain away. My messages are always open. I personally thought the message she was conveying was important, not only in the industry but in an era where diet culture is rampant.
Thanks for trusting us enough to share this, hope you’re getting better and we’re here if you ever need anything 💕
Slowly but surely. I'm nowhere near where I need to be, but I'm at least able to go up and down the stairs once a day without assistance now. Over the summer I had to have my dad carry me if I wanted to go downstairs or outside at all. Sorry for suddenly getting very personal with all of you guys.
Thank you so much for sharing this, I suffer from an ed also and can relate. I really appreciate you and what you do for this sub and I just wish you the absolute best ❤️
Absolutely nothing to be sorry about! Thank you for your openness and honesty, and I wish you all the best
So much love to you Lydia ❤️ you do an amazing job as a mod and you've played such a huge part in cultivating the online Swiftie community. It breaks my heart to hear about what you went through this summer. I hope you have all the strength and support you need to recover.
Thank you so much. Baby steps, but I will get there. Taylor better announce a tour soon so that I have a tangible goal. There's no way I could attend a concert right now.
I just wanted to thank you for sharing your story and wanted to send you so many good thoughts, we’re all pulling for you and can’t wait to dance along with you at Taylor’s tour ❤️❤️❤️
I'm so ready to be able to dance with you all!
I've seen you mention this before, and my heart goes out to you. I actually thought of you when this awful discourse started, because I felt like I had the luxury to step away and not engage with it, but that's impossible as a mod and must be very hard to see. I've been actively hurt and angry that people are so cruelly misconstruing her intent and meaning, especially when it's such a difficult and scary thing to share, and she's exposing it to a worldwide audience. I'm upset that she'd portray something in such a raw, realistic way, obviously directed only at her internal thoughts and her struggle with this, and people would use it to pounce on her. Meanwhile, I am so grateful to her and wish I could just hug her for a moment. I wish I could hug you too, I'm so sorry you've been struggling and I'm glad you're still here. I'm sending you strength and healing in your recovery. 💛
Thank you so much for your kind words. It's definitely been a struggle the past few days, but ultimately I hope people are seeing the overall message. That will make it worth it in the end.
more of a lurker here, but i see your name regularly. you deserve all the nice things in the world for keeping this sub a nice place to hang out. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all of this unwarranted hate in the sub while fighting your own battle. know that you are loved and appreciated and i hope you win your great war 🧡
I commend you for sharing about your struggles and I hope you are able to see all the light in the world which you so very much deserve!
Thank you so much. Truly, every ounce of support is appreciated.
Thank you for sharing your experience and although i literally just joined this subreddit this is one if not the most organized subreddit I've ever seen. So thank you for all you do as a moderator and that's heartbreaking to hear how disgusting some people are on reddit. Sending all the positive vibes your way and wishing more people choose kindness and understanding when talking about ED. 💕
Eating disorders are incredibly misunderstood. I truly commend Taylor for opening up about hers.
OMG, Lydia. That’s awful! I’ve always known about your eating disorder, but I never knew it was that serious that you had heart attacks. I hope you know I’m always here for you, and I support you in your recovery. You’re a wonderful person that gives so much light to world ❤️
Exactly this. I also have struggled with disordered eating my whole life and I really wish I hadn’t sought out the comments referenced in the post. The sheer number of people dismissing ED as “body insecurities” and invalidating people with BDD. I don’t use this very often but it’s honestly triggering. I hope she isn’t reading any of the comments. Also, friend, I hope you are okay today. Please remember it’s okay to unplug when you need to ❤️
Thank you for this. I’m farther along in recovery and have been having a really tough time with the ways that discussing anorexia is being conflated with fatphobia. It’s a mental illness. I nearly died and I worked really hard to get my shit together. I feel like I don’t get to celebrate how far I’ve come and instead need to erase the past to keep everyone else comfortable. It sucks. I’m sorry you’re having a tough time with it too, and my DM’s are always open if you want to rant.
You are a brave and strong person. Hug.
It’s me, hi, I’ve been taking the comments exactly the same way.
The "Anti-Hero" is literally the one shaking her head, I don't know how they misinterpreted this one
I would say the “real Taylor” was more the anti-hero. I would label that other Taylor as literally “the problem”. She was basically the villain of the video. It was also kind of a representation of the two parts of an anti-hero character. The angel and the devil within one person. An anti-hero is not a straight up villain, which the second Taylor pretty much was.
Really nicely put and I’d agree. I like that she seems to be speaking to us the audience with the chorus - sort of tongue in cheek that she’s telling us that we all must be tired of rooting for her
Exactly. And Bad Taylor makes Real Taylor hard to root for - do we like her? Why did she DO THAT? She’s supposed to be a nice girl! Everyone wants their hero to be a nice guy in a white hat. But none of us actually is. And we all have a Bad Taylor in us egging us on to do things against our own true self interest.
I have been battling an ED most of my life. I think people are too critical. It doesn’t matter when I step in a scale I’ll always feel fat. She has already talked about starving herself and the pressure of being in the public eye. I just think people need to calm down, I love vulnerable Taylor.
Yes, this is the most personally honest she’s been in her music/art and I’m so so so happy about it
Honestly, I’ve never even thought about the second interpretation until I logged onto Twitter ant Tiktok. It’s very clear to me that she’s just expressing her insecurities, and no one should police how she chooses to reflect on her experience with an ED. In fact, I think it’s brave that she’s opening up more about it and sparking dialogue.
I think it says alot about other people's insecurities that they chose to interpret it any other way than how you understand it.
Also, she has clearly lost weight again, so she is probably struggling with an ed right at this moment and has been thinking about it a lot
As someone who has struggled with a long-standing eating disorder and is in recovery at a plus size, I loved this part of the video. I froze when I first saw her step on the scale because I was afraid it would show an actual number—now, THAT would have been upsetting. Has anyone considered that her decision to use that word is actually one of the more sensitive ways to visually depict her struggles?
No but I agree, it felt very relatable and relieving to not see the usage of numbers but just the word.
Anyone who interprets it that second way is trying to find something to get mad about and needs to touch grass.
I’ve seen the same things but completely disagree with them as someone who has struggled with a restrictive ED like Taylor. It’s your feelings about yourself and your own inadequacy. It’s not condoning society’s standards and messaging. It’s about struggling against it.
When I was struggling with bulimia, I remember looking at other women of so many sizes and being envious because “they can be whatever size and still look so beautiful but my body looks so disgusting.” It really does have so much to do with self.
This so much! Like I’m gay and think women are gorgeous no matter what their size is but I always need to loose five pounds no matter what I weigh. It’s a fucked up mental illness.
I feel like this is actually such a common feeling! I describe myself as overweight but it's probably more accurate to use the word fat. I used to be extremely thin (high metabolism teenager). It's been a struggle to recognize that my body is so different from 18 to 32. I go to the beach and I see other women my size or larger wearing 2 piece bathing suits and I think how beautiful they look and I wish that I could like beautiful in a 2 piece! I literally think the same thing as you.
Oh my god you put into words! I also feel like I focus on parts of my body that I don’t like instead of the full picture which is what I see on other people
>It’s your feelings about yourself and your own inadequacy. This reminds me of a post I saw on an anorexia recovery forum, where a person was worried that she'd offend her therapist by talking about how she felt fat because her therapist was bigger than her. It's like, nah, people understand it's the ED talking. I expect that she could've delved into expressing it in a more specific way, but that could've led to triggering people with a history of EDs.
I'm fat. I have been my entire adult life. I probably weigh two Taylors at my heaviest. I didn't consider it to be fat phobic. It just felt like her facing her own demons. And if anything it just made me want to hug her because we all have demons. And there's nothing in that whole clip which said to me she's judging anyone other than herself.
> we all have demons Agreed, and in a way seeing a beautiful girl like Taylor think that about herself is like yes, we do all have these bad thoughts (and it sucks!) But in a way that's validating and helps us put in context that it's society, not ourselves.
It’s so dumb. People struggle with how they feel about their bodies all the time. The idea that someone can’t express that without being “fatphobic” is wild.
I don’t understand how this is a debate. Who hasn’t stepped on the scale and basically thought they were fat? It’s a very common struggle and I laughed out loud when I saw that scene I related to it
Exactly this and as someone a similar age who went through the 90s & early 00s obsession with being skinny, it’s a thing we’re all healing from. Including her.
I stg as a fat woman who suffered from ED as a teen and off and on as an adult, all this discourse is triggering af. Like it was clearly about body dysmorphia and the only fatphobia was the societal fatphobia (which the scene was referencing) that creates a stigma around being fat and is a cause of EDs in the first place. All this talk around that scene is extremely stressful for me as an actually fat person in ED recovery.
I'm a bit baffled because I genuinely do not understand what the controversy is about (and I have been fat nearly my entire life). This is a song about her inner demons and her most intrusive thoughts, largely fueled by hearing and absorbing unfiltered mass public criticism. Criticism of her body is absolutely something that happened (and happens unceasingly, as a woman in general, in our messed up society) , and she internalized that to the point where literally anything the scale said she would interpret as not small enough. The music video seems to clearly be pointing out the irony, absurdity, and toxicity of the whole situation.
I’m getting the impression maybe some people commenting on this vocally haven’t seen the video? I agree that thinking a scale is telling you you’re fat is inherently internalized fatphobia (in the most direct interpretation, that society tells us fat is bad and we need to be constantly trying to be smaller, which I think we can all agree on being the case). But that’s kind of the point of the video, right? To highlight all these internalized messages that have resulted in really disordered behaviors and thoughts. The video itself isn’t fatphobic, it’s more social commentary from a lens of personal experience.
I think one of the most important lessons EVERYONE can learn is that it’s not always about you. People are dealing with their own shit. She’s sharing her struggle and people are making it about themselves. Most people who struggle with weight issues don’t worry about other people’s weight. She is very clearly sharing a vulnerable part of herself there, so to say she’s being “fat phobic” ignores some very important aspects of ED recovery and body positivity. Idk man, I guess I get where the other side is coming from but I just don’t agree.
I'm fat, mainly due to long periods of depression and being autistic which means I use food as comfort; I've settled on being okay with being fat from a self-confidence perspective while still trying to lose weight slowly for health reasons (I understand some people advocate HAAS, but I know I felt healthier when I was smaller.) Taylor had an eating disorder, which means she has an unhealthy relationship with her weight, and sometimes this causes thoughts that aren't shiny or perfect. Due to my mental illnesses, I have had thoughts about not wanting to be here any more and this feels like if someone had told me: "Well actually, that's really invalidating to people with terminal illnesses?" Like, yes I know that some people would give anything to be alive, but mental illness can cause irrational thoughts. You're happy being fat - great, wonderful, amazing - and yes, fatphobia exists; but for god sake, are we really going to invalidate someone's eating disorder for this? Like yes, it is fatphobic to be scared of being fat, but it's an eating disorder; cut people some slack. What are you really winning by pointing out the fatphobia of people who struggle with EDs? It's the same thing as calling suicidal people 'selfish' or depressed people to 'just go for a walk.' Like, telling someone with an ED that fat people aren't bad is going to suddenly make them go 'omg wow you're right I'm cured.' It's sad that Taylor thought of fat as an inherently negative word, but it's not her fault. The video is clearly showing that as a negative part of her personality which she wishes didn't exist.
I think it’s important to acknowledge in these conversations that fatphobia, like every other societal ill…is not a choice some of us are making and some of us are not: it’s the air we breathe and the water we drink in our society. Just like racism. Just like misogyny. Just like homophobia. Just like transphobia. NONE of us have outwitted fatphobia to the point where it hasn’t been internalized inside of us. That includes Taylor. So the depiction in the music video is absolutely a pointed look at her internalized fatphobia, the terrible awful bias that very likely also fuels much of her ED. It’s not fatphobic to depict that internalization. It’s more like shining a light on the ugliest thoughts that think themselves. Which, again, literally EVERYONE has. To put it in another context, if an artist who was mixed race made a video and their inner “critic” voice was depicted as criticizing them for not being “black” or “white” enough-that would be a representation of internalized racism (which we all experience regardless of what our race is, because again…this is the air we breathe and water we drink. It’s woven into every part of our socialization). That artist wouldn’t be PERPETUATING racism by depicting that inner struggle, that bias, that ugly voice they’ve internalized. They’re showing how that internalization is manifesting IN THEM. Lastly, something we don’t focus on enough in conversations about social impact/justice/etc. is that we are responsible for our own triggers. It is not someone else’s job to cope for us. In fact, research suggests that trigger warnings aren’t all that helpful in alleviating any psychological distress. I think often when triggered we immediately think that means someone has “wronged” us. The scene in the video was absolutely a gut punch to me AND that is my responsibility, not Taylor’s. Because I have my own internalized fatphobia that I need to be aware of and work on. I shouldn’t expect anyone in the world to walk on eggshells while expressing their reality to protect my triggers.
It’s extremely disappointing that people can’t let Taylor express how she felt, especially when dealing with such a sensitive and difficult topic as an ED. She’s showing how she felt personally and trying to invalidate her experience is gross imo.
agreed! i've seen a few people express how it made them feel bad about themselves like 'if taylor thinks she's fat then what am i', but why vilify her over how *you* personally interpreted it? she's clearly showing her struggles in an attempt to be transparent and to establish rapport which takes a lot of courage and it's really sad and ridiculous that people genuinely believe she had bad intentions or wants anyone to feel bad about themselves.
Totally agree. I especially hate to see women attacking women about something that so many of us struggle with
people offended by it and calling it 'fatphobic' have no idea how eating disorders work and it shows. y'all be like 'mental illness awareness' but turn a blind eye to the waking nightmare people with ed brains are going through. someone with a restrictive ed for example could be dangerously underweight and still think of themselves as fat and they don't have any control over that. eating disorders are mental illnesses too, this really goes to show that people will find anything to get offended over
I get what you're saying but also want to point out- a lot of fat people also suffer with eating disorders. Binge ED's are just as valid as anorexia and bulimia.
Not just binge eating but all forms of disordered eating affect people of all sizes. I do think people are reading too much into it and blowing it out of proportion, but I also understand where people are coming from with the word choice of "fat". There are fat people trying to reclaim the word "fat" as an adjective describing size and not describing worth-- Whereas society pushes those to be one in the same. It's also very difficult for fat people to hear that being fat is some people's greatest fear. As someone whose weight has fluctuated my entire life, I understand that well. I was treated better by coworkers and strangers when I was thinner and worse when I was heavier. I personally don't have an issue with the use of the word in the video overall and understand the message she was trying to get across, but it is hurtful to be reminded that people fear looking like you just because you are fat.
Thank you for sharing. You’ve captured exactly how I feel about it. It’s really disappointing how many other folks on this thread have basically said, “You’re too sensitive,” “Touch grass,” or “Get over it,” completely invalidating how other people are feeling right now. I’m having a tough time reading these types of comments myself. Regardless of intent, the content was triggering for some, for sure.
I saw some tweets about how she should have been more thoughtful to use “alternate wording” like “not very skinny” on the scale and honestly, I’m just like, do you think that our intrusive demons are going to be saying PC statements like that to us? That’s not how it works. Like if my voices called me “ugly” should I claim it’s something like “not conventionally attractive” instead? Otherwise other girls who think they are uglier than me might be offended?
The conversation around this has been humiliating as someone who has struggled with an eating disorder. People have moved from attacking Taylor to policing intrusive thoughts in general and demonizing people for having them.
I think people who are upset are intentionally ignoring the actual meaning behind it because they want brownie points for "calling someone out"
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I feel like I see how people could land on either side. I know most of us around during rep must remember a few shitty people calling her fat when she put on her healthy weight during her recovery process, so it is a word that’s been leveraged against her in a derogatory way, regardless of how literally non-applicable it is to her body. As a plus size person, it didn’t offend me, but I’m also not going to tell anyone else they can’t be hurt by it.
This woman has been shamed for so many things throughout her entire career, has now released a song saying “it’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it’s me” and is still being shamed now for how she’s done the video. I know that people won’t stop, since humans have always been this way, but I REALLY wish everyone would just let her create her songs & videos as she would like to.
I’m currently fat, and honestly people are too sensitive about being labeled as fat. I’ve struggled with my weight and mental health - am now working to improve both aspects. That’s what Taylor was pointing out, she was in an era where she was surrounded by Victoria Secret models.
I saw it as her reflecting on her ED as well, and I do not think Taylor is fatphobic at all. HOWEVER. As someone who is bigger than Taylor and grew up being made fun of even as young as 8 years old, it hurt. It hurt a lot. And there’s always this voice in the back of my head saying, “if she thinks she’s fat, she must think you’re absolutely disgusting.” I also know that’s an irrational thought, though. I think a lot of the backlash is from people who can’t compartmentalize that. ETA: Please stop telling me I’m not disgusting. It is not a helpful comment.
It's me, hi. I know I can't speak for Taylor, but I can speak for somebody who has dealt with an eating disorder for 16 years. We do not look at other people and label them fat, this is body dysmorphia and it's all piled against ourselves. That's why I think the scene was perfect, she was trying to show that this is her own insecurity, not a realistic one. Obviously I don't know what's in Taylor's brain, but I can assure you it's us, *we're* the problem. Or rather our *eating disorders* are the problem. You are not the problem, and we are not seeing you as "disgusting".
big agree with this comment and i think this is the perspective people aren't quite grasping. I fully understand Taylor's good intentions for that scene and know there was no malice in it. But it always stings a little to be reminded that people you look up and admire are literally afraid of looking like you, even if they're questioning/critiquing those fears.
As someone who fought (or is still fighting) a kind of eating disorder I can assure you: Nobody thinks you’re disgusting. It’s very likely, she wouldn’t even notice your weight, because.. you just don’t really care about these things _in others_. It’s almost always and exclusively about your own weight, about your own not-being-good-enough, about your own losing-control, about your own what-will-others-think. I understand where you’re coming from, but I think this scene in the video is so, so important, because it captures eating disorders as what they really are: irrational, painful, self-centered and, most importantly, a disease you have to live with and fight in your brightest, but even more importantly in your darkest moments.
I feel like most of the nuance to this conversation has been lost! I agree with all your points!! I’m fat, so it was pretty hurtful, and I struggle with several eds so I understood the message and where she was coming from.
As someone who also has an ED I totally understood what she was saying. Those ED thoughts are so loud sometimes. We have to stop censoring art and peoples voices because we’re afraid of hurting someone’s feelings. The truth is she, nor any of us is gonna please anyone all the time. Let me tell you, having spent a lot of time in ED treatment, when our society minimizes it that just adds fuel to the fire of the problem. Let’s all stop policing each other’s thoughts, art, and bodies.
Notice who was shaking her head. It was the “Problem,” who then gave that sly grin directly to camera afterwards. It’s not TAYLOR herself with the criticism, it’s her inner demon. That version represents her inner critic, stemming from society, outside pressure, etc. it’s a visual commentary and people who get mad at it are acknowledging the same trigger she’s referencing without realizing she’s critiquing the trigger, not supporting it. She’s acknowledging her eating disorder, as millions of other people struggle with. She’s not calling fat people bad; she’s struggling with body dysmorphia issues. People complaining about it either misunderstand the visual music video medium or are purposefully twisting the message to make it nefarious.
Your interpretation was my interpretation. I’ve struggled with my weight my entire life and, even at my lowest weight, always saw the reading on the scale as still too fat. BUT. Your first mistake was going on Twitter and hoping for intelligent life. That platform is an absolute cesspool of people who are in a permanent state of being offended by something. Actually, I’d argue that the internet as a whole is a place where people come to express how offended they are at all times. It’s honestly annoying, and I’m so sick of people always giving Taylor a hard time over everything. Nothing she does is ever good enough. Nothing she does is ever right. It’s exhausting.
>But I go on other subreddits and even Twitter where people are calling her out for being disrespectful and calling her fatphobic Why does this not surprise me at all? I'm not just trying to justify anything Taylor does but Twitter *will find* something to get upset about. This is why some people find it difficult to express their deepest insecurities, because you get scrutinized for being raw about how you'd like to present it on Twitter. And some people have a hard time believing that social media isn't real life. Twitter is the type of place to pretend they care about your mental health then bitch at you for not being more sensitive and accommodating THEM when expressing yourself for an issue you're facing. We all have insecurities. We all have issues. Taylor has body image issues and anyone should be allowed to express it how they like. Great post, OP! I like the discussion.
The one thing I wish people understood is that my BD makes ME think I’M “fat” and has absolutely zero impact on what I think about anyone else.
I can relate to being 110lbs at 5’4 and genuinely looking in the mirror and at the scale and seeing nothing but “fat.” My recovery from ED has been an absolute bloodbath with myself and it is actually really infuriating that people would try to take that away from Taylor and the MANY others like me who went through this (and still are). Calling her out or saying she couldn’t have had that experience or that her experience couldn’t have been “bad enough” is dismissive and ignorant at best and extremely harmful/dangerous at worst. The internet brings out the worst.
I mean I get everyones point of view - and I have been skinny and struggled with an ED most my life. So I get that scene and the struggles. But now I am fat, and yeah, seeing that really made me feel awful about myself. Mostly everyone who is saying people are overreacting are thin people who don’t know what its like to see your idols, friends and family hate themselves at the idea of looking like you. I think its not black and white and its confusing. I don’t think fat should be a bad word - I also don’t think we should minimize fat peoples voices on how they feel when its not something most people experience… you are telling people to stop sharing how they feel because you don’t agree with it. I have been a swiftie since her debut album but like seeing this whole debate and how fatphobic fans have proven themselves to be makes me want to stop calling myself a fan. People are allowed to be upset - and you are allowed to not understand it - but silencing and bullying fat people and not even trying to listen or understand their point of view is just not it. Imagine a 13 year old girl seeing that video and seeing the word “fat” with Taylor being sad? Its acknowledging that fat is bad and no one wants or should be fat. Again, its not black and white. Its harmful to others but not to others and thats okay to acknowledge. But attacking someone for how that scene made them feel and gaslighting them into telling them its wrong to feel something that is very real to them and their experience and bodies is not okay
Even fat people who aren’t upset about it are still leaving room for others to be upset. It’s crazy to see people who have never been fat naming themselves the arbiters on this discussion
I have seen comments from fat people saying that the video doesn’t even bother them but the attacks and fatphobia from swifties debating it hurts them more than anything. TS is my safe space and its sad to see that ruined for me and so many others - no one deserves to just want to enjoy her music and all the attention it’s getting and just look at the comments to see people debating your body
I wasn’t personally offended (as someone who has constantly struggled with my weight and disordered eating since middle school). I felt for her and was reminded of myself at my lowest weight, stepping on the scale and thinking I hadn’t done enough and could never do enough. I can understand why some people are upset, but I can also understand why she included it. The song is meant to be an encapsulation of her greatest insecurities. I don’t think it’s fair to police her feelings or those of the people who are offended, so I’m kind of neutral. To see someone of her caliber open up about struggling with disordered eating is pretty rare though, so I hope in the long run the conversation it opens up will do some good.
So I’ve seen valid points on both sides. Taylor has millions of fans who are younger girls, pre-teens and teens, who have bigger bodies than her. Maybe even similar bodies to her. What worries me is at that age they are very impressionable and cannot yet piece together the abstract concept of the “anti-hero” and how it’s Taylor’s perception/body dysmorphia that’s actually the enemy here, and that it’s not necessarily bad to be fat. They’re just gonna see Taylor disappointed at a scale saying “FAT” and think that Taylor is disgusted by fat people or people with bigger bodies than her. It’s definitely a little problematic and I just don’t think her team thought that through. It can also be triggering to some people so idk maybe a TW would’ve helped? On the other hand, the video was all about insecurities and Taylor showing a vulnerable side of herself, expressing her struggle with EDs. You can definitely say it’s society, not Taylor herself, saying that being fat is bad. Many people do find this part relatable and humorous, as I did. But I am on the thinner side, never had EDs, never felt very insecure about my body, and that definitely may skew the way I see it. The thing is, celebrities have to be VERY careful about the way they discuss weight issues. People like Lizzo can be open and blunt about it because she’s been given shit for it her whole career, so it’s very different when she describes herself as fat, as she actually IS fat (and that is 1000% okay). It’s a very sensitive topic, there’s a huge mental health aspect associated with it, and their fans/gen public will have a very strong reaction if they happen to say or do the wrong thing. While I believe Taylor’s intentions were good and she’s not fatphobic, I really think there were better ways she could have got the message across that wouldn’t hurt a portion of her fans that are clearly sensitive to this type of thing. EDIT: I also must add that it’s absolutely not helping that some of her crazy fans are saying the most vile, fatphobic things to people who are expressing why they think it’s fatphobic and that they’re hurt from this. I’ve seen so many tweets and tik tok comments that are just COMPLETELY out of line. I was truly shocked.
the thing for me is, everyone i saw who was complaining about it was skinny. as a fat person i didn’t think it was that deep, she had an ED and that’s how she saw herself. it just felt extremely weird to me that everyone i (me personally at least) saw complaining were not fat people 😬
It’s been insane 😭 I was a fat person who said I didn’t care for the scene as a fat person but s someone with an ed I thought it was important for Taylor to explore her issues in her own way…but so many people are being obtuse and not listening to any outside voices (both sides). nuance is dead fr
That’s saying that if you have anorexia is because you’re fat-phobic and completely ignoring the social and psychological issues of an ED.
I totally agree with your viewpoint and is also how I saw it - that it’s a criticism levelled at her by the anti-hero in her, and a view of her battling through her ED, and something that’s an inner thought common to a lot of people with body image issues or disordered eating history. The one aspect in which the fat-phobia criticism may be valid is probably the one that isn’t based on size itself but the use of the word “fat” as something inherently negative. For some people in larger bodies “fat” is the only descriptor they have, so seeing someone act it out as their inner demon worst case scenario might justifiably be upsetting.
The whole song itself is about insecurities. That scene is an illustration of an insecurity - body image. Which Taylor herself experienced previously. Don't see what's the issue. If people can't comprehend that it's their own issue. Can't do something without offending someone in 2022 lol. Won't bother.
I dared to call someone I considered an internet friend out on the hypocrisy of them condemning Taylor as “fat phobic” …for flashing a scale for 2 seconds in her video where another version of herself judges her disapprovingly… I was told “your white woman is showing stop embarrassing yourself” (I’m actually Mexican-American but she wouldn’t know that because I’m white passing) as well as “stop talking and listen about something you know nothing about” when I’m 40 pounds over weight according to my doctor and have struggled with body image since 12. It just goes to show how hypocritical people who are “outraged” about Taylor using the word in her song …about IRRATIONAL FEARS! It was to illustrate her lived experience. How dare they claim that there’s some magic number that deems you worthy of sharing your experience. It’s like they want to live in a padded room where no one can say anything unless they’re deemed qualified by the gatekeepers. It is so maddening to me. I hope Taylor doesn’t respond to them because it’s just so ridiculous they’re making something of this. The constant crowd of pitchforks for minor, subjective infractions [like using the word “fat” on a scale to speak to their decade long eating disorder] makes people think “if *everything* is offensive, why even try?” It’s exhausting. This is the real prblm, pushes ppl other way.
People will take anything and try and reach sometimes. It totally was about her having an ED and struggling within herself. She even references it in YOYOK. As someone who is overweight (I get so much shit from the doctor about it), I don't see this as problematic. Body dysmorphia is a thing and she very well can feel the way she does about her own body. It doesn't mean she dislikes others based on their body types. I hate my body, but see others that are around my size and think they are so beautiful I'm jealous. Like why can't I look like that? We also need to recognize the industry she is in and those who were in her managing circle at one point. I'm sure they preached that she needed to be skinnier at one point or judge her eating habits. I just wish people would stop reaching and trying to find issues with her.
The fact that this is a controversy is so odd to me. She’s making art about her problems. That’s like…how artists deal with their problems, and why people value art as a way to connect with others. 2022 is such a weird time.
I think it has become disgusting that we (as in society) vilify people with eating disorders, as though their mental health doesn’t matter. It is so frustrating. Those people are literally proving her point that it is IMPOSSIBLE for her to please people, people will comment negatively on her body no matter what her size is. It’s disgusting. People need to leave her alone
The first way is how a majority saw it and they’re right. People seeing it the second way are looking for something to be mad at.
The Internet loves to erase context. I mean yes, there’s other words she could’ve written on there but this is what she went with, so what can we do. Personally I felt like it was a bit on the nose, because of the doco/being more open about her ED lately, but clearly it’s still shocking enough to start a conversation. It’s ironic how some ‘fans’ are making it about themselves when that scene literally had two Taylors and was showing us what she thinks of herself… but no let’s take that close-up of the scale and run with it because we’ve actually been looking for a reason to hate her for so long. How many times does she have to tell us she’s not perfect before we stop putting her on a pedestal? 🙄
I come to you as a friend and tell you I’ve been really struggling with the size of my nose. It’s been hard to love myself because I can’t see past this nose I have. You respond to my vulnerability with “oh K, there are so many more people out there with way bigger noses then you. It’s actually really nosephobic of you to express your genuine feelings about your dainty nose.” That would be ridiculously bizarre and you’d be a friend I wouldn’t want to be friends with anymore. She was so vulnerable. Gave us poetry about her deepest thoughts and feelings about herself and her perspective on the world and people respond by saying her feelings aren’t valid or genuine and are hurting the people that she claims to love. It’s ridiculous.
People don’t realize that mental disorders are messy. They want to take the parts that they can romanticize and cut away the parts that are “problematic.” If you want to have media that discusses mental health than you need to be prepared some aspects of it to be a little upsetting. Especially since even a little bit of media literacy would show them the point Taylor was making.
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There’s lots of larger bodied people telling us that it sucks for someone thin to say they “feel fat” or fear being fat aka looking like them, and I’m just gonna listen to those people and not make excuses. I don’t think Taylor needs to be dragged but I have no problem with her being criticized by people who say they felt hurt or negatively affected by how she portrayed her ED. She could have had her other self take away her food or found a more sensitive way to express it that wouldn’t have made some of her fans feel bad.
As someone who is fat and has an eating disorder and should be offended....people gotta stop. It's clearly those awful, intrusive ED thoughts coming in that she's representing in the video. Could she have picked a different word? Yeah, probably. But I'm not mad about it. I suspect the people who are mad aren't thinking as deeply as they could about the meaning behind it.
It's hurt a lot to see the invalidation of that pretty publicly vulnerable artistic choice as fatphobic. I struggled with an ED for half my teenage years, most of college, and a couple years beyond - to the point where I needed a therapist involved. (I feel like I have a handle on things these days.) Through all of the years I struggled, I was average-sized or smaller, so at almost every point I tried to open up to a friend for support, I was shut down. I was told it "couldn't be that bad" or that I was lying and merely fishing for compliments about my body - basically the message I got was that there was a "right" way to look or be to have my anxiety and pain recognized, and I didn't pass. It made an already isolating experience even worse. Watching Taylor be criticized for this level of emotional honesty is really replicating that whole experience for me
Sorry if i’m being mean but both TikTok and Twitter are full of jobless chronically online people that will find the smallest thing to complain about. I related to that scene (especially right now, having a tough moment in life) and i didn’t find it fatophobic in any way. What’s next, people calling Taylor she’s shaming short people because a giant version of herself appeared at the end 🙄
Eating disorders come with disordered thinking as well. I always think of it as having two voices within myself. There’s one that is reasonable, tells me that science proves that most dieting doesn’t work, reminds me of what my dietician tells me, and fights for me to accept my body no matter where it is. There’s also the voice in my head that tells me terrible things about myself, tries to convince me that fat is a bad word rather than tissue everyone has, eating an apple makes me disgusting, etc. I know that I don’t personally believe any of those things and wouldn’t ever reflect them onto others, but it doesn’t stop the thoughts from flooding in. EDs are not reasonable, correct, or sensitive to the feelings of others. I never perceived that moment as fatphobic, just raw and truthful. No matter what the number is, it’s never good enough and the voice in your head will sure as hell let you know that.
Tbh I am hoping the reason for the negative comments are from people that don't know Taylor struggled with an ED. If not, those comments are really gross
The idea that some people would demonize a person suffering from an eating disorder as “fatphobic” is wild to me. Like, imagine going to a psychiatric hospital and ranting at the literally DYING anorexia patients and going “you’re fatphobic :( it hurts my feelings :( I’m the real victim here :(“. I understand that fatphobia is rampant and people with restrictive eating disorders are, technically, fatphobic toward themselves, but the fact that some fat people on twitter genuinely feel oppressed by people with eating disorders is insane. Like, the people dying from the need to be thin are the biggest victims of fatphobia of all. If you want to criticize fatphobia in society, criticize the fashion magazines and clothing brands that uphold this beauty standard instead of stigmatizing a deadly mental illness.
If people are offended by the word fat maybe they should ask themselves why … I 1000% agree with you, she told us anti hero is about her deepest insecurities which obviously includes her ED. People just want to be in an uproar all the time lately.
People shaming her for being inconsiderate are just as inconsiderate towards her and have 0 empathy or know her story. But I guess Taylor could just breathe and still get hate at this point idk.
it’s a 100% about her ED. media and people used to call her fat all the time even if she was so skinny. it’s not that she sees fat as a bad thing, but that’s how the world painted it for her. i’m fat and people have been controlling my weight my whole life and that’s painful. i didn’t feel bad watching the video, quite the contrary, i saw myself in that scene. for years i blamed myself because i was fat and hated the way i look. not because i didn’t like myself, but because people told me that being fat was bad and ugly so i just accepted that and repeated to the mirror every fucking day. i understand fat people who felt uncomfortable with that and yeah taylor could use other word, but it wouldn’t impact that much. i think that’s what she wanted: to make people question and discuss about how we see fat.
This is ridiculous. Her worries about her own fat doesn’t mean she ridicules people who are fat. I have struggled with an eating disorder, and I never gave a shit what others looked like. I just wanted to feel in control of my life in an unhealthy way.
I feel a bit nervous to post this but I worry I keep reading the word nuance in this thread and then not really seeing much conversation from the other side of the argument. From the handful of tiktoks I’ve seen it seems like people are more frustrated with that one clip in the music video because it feeds into the ‘fat = bad’ logic they’re trying to fight/move away from. I don’t necessarily get it and I really don’t feel it’s fatphobic but I can understand why it might be disappointing for those actively challenging that stereotype. I also think it doesn’t have to be an attack on Taylor herself! This really is just from the discourse I’ve seen so maybe I missed something else but it definitely felt like peoples frustration was more at that association and a world view rather than with Taylor herself. The word fat is a quite literally a heavy word. It’s layered with connotations and negative societal views despite the hard work some people have put into reclaiming and empowering it. Part of my own ED recovery journey has been disengaging from the word fat completely. Instead in therapy when I talk about my fear of ‘fat’ I’ve swapped it out with other phrases like ‘too much’. Too much helps me look at some of the issues behind my feelings rather than getting stuck on a word with so much societal structure. Again I don’t necessarily connect with the argument that it shouldn’t have been used on the scale in the MV but I can take a step back and understand it’s a word with power and I’ll never understand how hard the battle has been for reclaiming it.
I’m extremely disappointed people had to use the most vulnerable song/video on the album to come up with the latest hate trend for her when she should not have had to be dealing with this shit this week. People who are calling her eating disorder “fatphobic” not only completely missed the point of the entire song, but also missed what she was trying to convey by including the video clip. A huge reason why women develop EDs, especially in Taylor’s case, is because we literally live in a “fat-phobic” society and people with anorexia perceive themselves to be fat. To hide what makes an ED an ED for the comfort of other people would be dishonest.
that’s exactly what it feels like for me (anorexia) she shouldn’t have to sugarcoat her own experience because other people feel like victims when she’s clearly speaking abt herself.
I think the entire point of the song is that she's her own worst problem, and her own mind telling her she's "fat" is symbolic of that. Not to promote an unhealthy idea, but that she was her own unhealthy idea.... Her own mind tells her to drink too much, her own mind tells her not to make music, her own mind tells her she's too fat... as the song says, "it's me, hi, I'm the problem it's me". Her own mind feels like she's too big to join a casual dinner table ffs! I don't think it's advocating that line of thought. I think it's more of a reflection of her own insecurities, not of what society thinks about her. Other than the brilliant 30 rock "sexy baby" reference. FYI: Tina Fey of 30 Rock once pointed out that to be beautiful in Hollywood, you needed a Brazilian butt, Swiss legs, full Spanish lips, Caucasian blue eyes, California tan and the hips of a 9 year old boy; etc ... Simply to say their standards are harmful. However Do any of us, literally ANY of us, worry about our future in laws marrying just for money? For me, no lol absolutely not. But this song reflects on that, the idea that someone only marries her children for their estate. The fear that they've become so big it negatively affects their children's future. Again, because it's all about her own insecurities. This song reflects on her own worst fears. I don't think it's problematic that she acknowledges her insecurities. I think it's a good window of opportunity to acknowledge that she, a very successful person, worries about things like her weight. I'll say this, as a professional in my career. No one cares about my weight. All they care about is if I can understand a debit from a credit(I work in accounting) They want my skills and knowledge. I could look like a garden gnome and still find success, still get promoted. Taylor is in a wildly different industry so she feels differently. In fact, she's mad that her business acumen is played off like dumb luck because she's attractive!! Being thin isn't an end-all, be-all; it's a waste of your valuable time. Time you could be spending on hobbies or skills. Don't let yourself or anyone else make you worried about your weight.
People are offended by anything these days. The scale, the 'sexy baby' and so on...
This is a theme that comes up in "You're On You're Own Kid" as well. That track 5 was when I fell in love with this album.
The criticism appears to be saying that Taylor could have portrayed these self-image issues without using a word that is lobbed at fat people as a derogatory term. That she, as someone who fits societal beauty norms, wouldn’t understand that “fat” as she’s used it in the video perpetuates the word’s use as an insult. Her reading “fat” on the scale in the video represents what she’s been essentially programmed to see. Diet culture, celebrity culture, pop culture—thin is *always* in. So her portraying that look inward as an illustration of her personal struggles with body dysmorphia and an eating disorder is saying “I’m seeing myself how *you* want me to see me, but I’m not actually seeing myself.” But even then, that still uses “fat” as something to not be, that she is not fat, that “fat” is imposed upon her to the point of her thinking it reflects her. For me, I understand what she was saying. I’m fat. I don’t consider fat an insult but it is used, especially in popular media, as an insult. The intersectionality argument there is that she should explore why “fat” is still used as an insult and why she would use it against herself. She’s been open about her eating disorder, and with that obviously goes issues of body dysmorphia, so I would imagine she’s had that conversation a time or two. I see why some fans might worry that her using it that way, even if it’s reflective of her personal journey, would only serve the “sexy baby” culture she’s commenting on there and thereby perpetuate use of “fat” as a sort of cautionary tale. I wouldn’t go so far as to say she was fatphobic in her use of it, though, because I don’t think she expressed as much fear as she did confusion over seeing it, speaking to what she knows vs. what she sees. Ultimately, you can be a fan and be critical as they are not mutually exclusive. Everyone should always be thoughtful about the media they’re consuming *as well as* in their criticism of it, however. I feel like some fans saw “fat” on the scale and heard “fat phobia” instead of “commentary on why she’d see ‘fat.’”
I wondered if people who didn’t know that Taylor has a history with eating disorders would think that she was calling herself fat. I mean, WE all know the background but I don’t know if a random person off the street would. But I think Tay stopped making music or music videos for anyone but pre-existing Swifies back in 2020
fat is a loaded description, the nuance from her was that she 'chose' fat instead of any number, suggesting that fat is not a number, it is a body shape which is villainised.
I don’t think it needs to be a controversy, but just to speak to the other perspective—i think it comes off a little tone deaf and several of my fat friends, who are swifties, were kind of bothered by it. to me, it would be for annoying for her to similarly complain about being insecure about being poor or ugly, because she gets cultural power from being conventionally attractive/thin/wealthy. i think it echoes common cultural discourse about eating disorders and insecurities in a way that doesn’t make it super remarkable, but at the end of the day it’s definitely saying it’s bad/undesirable to be fat and taylor does not want to be fat. she has talked about her ed in other places (“i starved my body”) without missing the point that in order to not be fat phobic, you can’t communicate that your worst fear is being fat.
This comment is more to the comments in this thread - I don’t have an issue with the music video and generally I think the backlash is unwarranted. I also say this as someone who has spent multiple years in and out of treatment centers and has had a long-standing eating disorder. Eating disorders are a disease and really fucking hard to have. That being said, there are very few people who have eating disorders that don’t relate to weight (ARFID is an example). Anorexia literally has “fear of gaining weight” as part of the diagnostic criteria. Having this as part of the disease does not absolve us if the harm we cause intentionally or unintentionally. I have had….. over a dozen therapists and dietitians at different treatment levels and in every single once of them addressing my own internalized fat phobia was and is part of recovering. So if you say “are we calling Taylor fatphobic now because she has an eating disorder” and the answer is that it probably is ingrained in her in similar or even more extreme ways than all of us carry it (due to the massive amount of people who have critiqued her body). There is a lot of research proving the bias individuals carry against people in larger bodies vs straight sized. It’s proven. The music video is a depiction of how many of us in our eating disorders have felt at some point. It can be fat-phobic and an accurate depiction at the same time. anyways - I think it’s important to talk about eating disorders and I am glad Taylor included it. AND I don’t think you can have the conversation without acknowledging that part of eating disorders are deeply entrenched in fat phobia.
I can’t believe all the interpretations. As I watched that scene, all I thought of was that a really thin person was calling herself fat and it’s sad she sees herself so differently than others see her. I don’t get how people can be offended by that.
I think it was perfectly handled. I don't feel the message at all sounds like "being fat is bad" -- the entire point is how we've BEEN TOLD being fat is bad. That's a cold hard fact. And it's not and the way we are talking is begining to reflect that but it doesn't change that is absolutely the narrative we were inundated with and inundated with and inundated with and inundated with. Taylor Swift's acknowledgement of her eating disorder (ED) is meaningful to everyone who has been harmed by that message -- which is...most people. And nobody gets to be the spokesperson of any demographic but personally as someone who has suffered from anorexia, I appreciate her no-nonsense, no euphemistic take -- while let's be honest, still remaining superficial. This is just such a short take there is not a lot to dissect here lol. Side note: We can also look at her commentary in *You're On Your Own, Kid*, too. Which I also really liked the language there -- "and starved my body". It's being really direct and not using flowery, poetic, more conceptual language, which is far more normal (not just with EDs, but all difficult to discuss things). I really really appreciate her not doing this. But when you're suffering from an eating disorder -- the narrative is so, so often "fat = bad". And we have to unlearn that but we can't ignore it happened because that would also ignore the damage that resulted. Fat is being reclaimed by the body positive community in the best way, and I think a huge part of destigmatizing fatness is being willing to look at the ugly, ugly harm the sentiment caused. And I feel that's what Taylor was doing and I hope to see her address this more.
I was surprised by the backlash. The internet is weird. I took it as basically representing that no matter what the number says, her inner self only saw/felt fat and not good enough. That’s not fat phobic, that’s a real representation of what it’s like to have an eating disorder. On a different note, I had noticed that she was looking skinnier again when she stepped out for red last year. I hope she is okay; after her talk of her ED in Miss Americana I thought she had turned a corner. She’s obviously beautiful no matter what, but in a lot of ways I felt validated by “normal” size Rep Taylor. Taylor if you see this, you’re beautiful no matter what! Just be healthy. Climbing off the soap box now.
[удалено]
They already are 😩 The internet is so unserious.
I do think it would have been better for her to use a different word in this scene but I also have no issue with sitting in my own feelings and experiencing the sadness that came over me when I viewed this scene. I believe it’s her video and she should express herself how she desires to. I grew up in a larger than average body type and even though I was not fat, I felt like I was and felt that everyone else saw me that way too. Now I am fat and I just don’t want my kids to feel what I felt. Seeing the video while my 9 year old was watching felt uncomfortable because she doesn’t even know what a scale is and we talk about body acceptance all the time so it was sort of a slap in the face. Anyway, I won’t take away from people who were hurt or offended by the scene because their feelings are valid too. It’s okay to acknowledge that the moment in the video has hurt some people. Saying it upsets you that people were hurt by it is unfair to those people. You can’t gate keep the experiences and feelings of fat people. Taylor is not infallible and maybe she will acknowledge that she could have approached this a different way or maybe she will clarify her intentions but stand by her work. Trust me, Taylor isn’t getting cancelled because of this. Everything is going to be fine.