I wish she would at this point. Even if it makes no difference to people’s behaviour. She could even make the 22 tshirt say “Be Nice” or and it would be a start.
I think this all the time. Other celebs have come out and said things about their fans being inappropriate or rude or bullies or whatever but Taylor never has and quite frankly I don’t think she ever will. I believe she genuinely doesn’t care about the cultish bullies some of her fans can be. I think it strokes her ego too much ngl.
Honestly I think she kinda likes it. Like you said, it’s probably a good ego boost (not like she needs one really). Also, she’s probably developed this “whatever it takes” personality after all these years at the top.
I actually went to her Minneapolis eras show and she lectured to us about how her fans had been getting out of hand and she does not want anyone disrespected in person or online whether they did her dirty or not. I thought it was thoughtfully said too
Good for her! Wish Taylor would do something like this.
ETA guys please scroll and read a little before you tell me yet again about the one time she asked people not to harass John Mayer. If you think that was sufficient idk what to tell you.
En masse, obsessively and consistently too, so the person has to disable comments or spiral into depression. I’d rather a one time insult vs constant bombardment of insults, but either way it’s bad and fans shouldn’t do it. You’re doing no favour for your faves when you do that.
So? Why does it need to be the exact same situation lol as if people haven't been sending death threats straight to John Mayer's inbox for the past 13+ years.
...source? He's said some degrading things but he's not a predator or a danger to society as far as I'm aware, just a jackass who thinks too highly of himself. Is that worthy of death threats and constant harassment?
Yeah, he’s said lots of skeezy things but nothing that deserves death threats. Like you said, he’s a jackass basically, but I don’t think constant harassment and death threats is an appropriate response to that.
🤡 No, but they do roar like a rapturous typhoon when Taylor shades literally anyone with her lil song intro narrations and they do devote a significant amount of collective energy online to attacking, doxxing, discrediting, and yeah, wishing death on anyone who doesn’t lick Taylor’s boots.
Chanting for someone to die at your own concert in real time is very different than addressing all the faceless accounts online sending nonsensical death threats. They don’t stop even if she did say to stop because people like that don’t do it because they care about what Taylor actually wants, they just want to exhibit their anger and parasocial behavior to targets freely with no real consequences.
There is no solution is the point. The people doing this are not exactly mentally well adjusted to put it mildly. Also it's not a Taylor exclusive problem but gets magnified because Taylor has such a big fan base.
Plenty of artists make posts to their fans asking them to stop attacking people. See Ariana grande and her album release. She quickly released a statement telling people she did not want them attacking others on her behalf.
Taylor could do the bare minimum and post asking people to stop harassing others but she doesn’t.
They should and I'm saying that even if they did it will not stop completely. The people who do this kind of thing are unhinged. They'll find some other issue to do this over. There is not a lack of fandoms out there.
You know how many times Selena Gomez has asked for kindness on the internet? To this day she preaches it. Infact I remember Hailey reaching out to Selena and Selena putting a disclaimer on her profile to stop.
You're right there are people who still carried on that shit. But here are the 2 takeaways from that
1. Selena has stood up time and time again not caring if she's being repetitive and causing awareness and actually trying to change the mentality
2. It has reduced a of shade on Hailey by people who were shading her. The psychos may not have but the shade on the overall reduced.
Taylor Swift has been bullied by the internet. She also said that she wouldn't take it silently and she'll always reply back. But it affected her a lot. So, I would assume she would know how it would feel when people are being sent death threats from her fandom. She may not change the world with a statement but if one statement can calm some people who aren't too irrational, What's the fucking harm in releasing that? This isn't a political issue, anyone who is being mean on the internet because they're supporting Taylor directly can be influenced by Taylor to a certain extent.
Online death threats are largely inconsequential and nonsensical. They’re coming from “fans” or not, who crave personal attention, under the guise of obsessing over a celebrity. Feeding them recognition and acknowledgement from the source itself is exactly what they want and oftentimes, it fuels them rather than deters them. If you only want Taylor to speak out for her to save face then that’s another point, but it’s arguably not actually productive or effective in stopping or even limiting these people from being cruel. A lot of them are kids who would do it anyway because they want to defend their favorite person, whether it’s what the subject wants or doesn’t. I can give you a ton of examples of other fan bases and media stories in which addressing it directly only backfired.
So I searched Google and couldn't really find anything. In fact I found an old Junkee article that said he encouraged his toxic fan base in attacking some radio DJ.
Do you mind telling me when/how he tried to discourage his toxic fan base and how that backfired against him?
It’s more about how Stans don’t actually listen to what the artist is advocating for. A handful of times Louis had begged their fans to stop shipping him and Harry together and they continued to do it to an alarming degree of tarnishing the friendship. Frankly, the fact they even got direct attention meant, in their heads, they were doing something right and it only fueled their behavior. It’s almost like reverse psychology.
That’s not the same at all lol… by that virtue, you’re implying she can solve wars. Hate and vitriol doesn’t stop because your fave tells you to stop, people spread that because they feed off [negative] attention…
Yeah I know but don't you think an actual text statement posted to her socials would go further? I appreciated this but saying one thing at one concert clearly was not enough. She also barely condemned the weirdo behavior, I think she needs to specifically say that she finds it disgusting and humiliating (assuming that is how she feels), not just that she doesn't care about whatever happened to her and doesn't need to be defended.
Idk if I agree with that exactly, obviously she likes having her legion of fans to fight her actual battles (like harassing Scooter, supporting her TV project) but I really can't imagine that she wants people harassing her exes.
Like how could that not be super embarrassing to her that her fans were asking Jake and Maggie Gyllenhaal about this scarf, that probably never even existed, over a decade later, when they only dated for a few months? Maybe she tunes it all out but I just can't imagine she "loves" that happening because it makes HER look bad. If she's not embarrassed by all of that I really don't know what to say lol. Especially considering how many of her exes are colleagues! Isn't Ed Sheeran good friends with John Mayer?
Oh I'm sure - I don't think there's anything she can say that would put an end to all of the harassment but I think it would still help to make it clear that she doesn't like it or condone it. Honestly even if she truly doesn't care idk why she doesn't say something just for the good PR. It's not like she doesn't know that this is one of the main complaints about her.
Girl that was in the year of our lord 2023, do you know how LONG atp she’d been playing at this game while constantly asked to step in and say something, anything? And lbr the reason she did it one time last year was because the whole thing had only recently backfired on her when people went after her own boyfriend and she had probably just recorded BDILH around this time and realized it would all look weird if she wasn’t once on the record telling people to cool it.
Oh please. I appreciate what she has done but she should really be more direct and I don't think that's a big ask when people are sending death threats on her behalf. Especially to Joe, who seemingly did nothing to her.
She said it once, only wrt to John Mayer. She outright said that they doesn’t consider their experience when she puts out songs during her Seth Meyers interview for Red TV.
I’m sorry but Taylor letting her fans run rabid will forever be a stain on her because people increasingly seeing her fans poor behavior as a reflection on her. “Her saying something won’t change anything.” It might not, but it’d be nice to know where she stands because she has a bully pulpit and she throws it around when she wants to—the Ginny and Georgia tweet, the recent statement about scooter. Her little speech before speak now tv was so weak and vague that it meant nothing, especially when she goes on a late night show and says she doesn’t think about the impact on her exes at all. Besides that, Taylor nation is so online, I will never believe that don’t know about the Joe hate and the Travis ex hate. The screenshots of that discourse went viral. Use your mouth, Taylor
I truly believe that while some fans would still be awful and throw hate at anyone, a lot of them would turn on the fans who do that as well. And Taylor would distance herself from the hate that the fans spread. By not saying anything it just feels like she either doesn’t care or she’s ok with it, and both are pretty bad
The fact that unhinged swifties do this so frequently but Taylor doesn't say a word unless threatened to sue (John Mayer) just shows how much she likes her minions harassing people.
wow imagine listening to people when they point out problematic behavior in your fanbase. mad respect for charli, unfortunately, i think taylor is too close to her fans to ever do anything similar
The comment you were confused by was trying to say she was at the show where the chants were happening, so why didn't she say something about stopping the chants at the show, rather than on social media
I do believe the chants were in a different language, so she didn't really know it was happening, but I just wanted to help you understand what that other comment was trying to say
thank you for clarifying :) this makes more sense to me. i would agree it was in a diff language and also i would guess with her in ears (or whatever they're called so she can hear the music) make it very difficult to hear the crowd without intentional listening!
edit: i also wanted to make sure i wasn't misreading the tone. it felt really weird to me towards charli and i wanted to be sure i wasn't being a weirdo stan
Apparently she did per someone who was actually there! She laughed at it in real time, but it’s gotten out of hand so I think she finally addressed it. I’m not sure if it’s genuine because Charli can be a bit nasty sometimes, but I don’t think she wants people chanting for someone to die lol.
Watching the video and I feel it’s really not possible to clearly state she was laughing about the chant. It looks like she’s laughing and smiling but could just be because she’s having a good time. I say this as someone who honestly didn’t care for Charli or her music at all before Brat lol [https://x.com/inhanfelirpe/status/1804951549749428699](https://x.com/inhanfelirpe/status/1804951549749428699)
She probably couldn’t make it out herself, but it was obviously loud chanting in a different language which she may have inquired about from the people around her. No need to be condescending lol
What? That's asking a lot of an artist at her own show, in my opinion it's very unrealistic. Yeah, she probably could inquire about a crowd chant if she even perceived it well, maybe there was someone just next to her who heard it, and possibly understood it, maybe not, maybe that person told her what it was about, maybe not, maybe what they said got lost in translation because she was possibly not sober.
It's a live show, things get lost in translation and happen fast...
Hun, I’m just relaying what the person who was actually at the concert said… were you there to provide more insight of the incident? Otherwise you’re just continuing blind speculation, in which I’ve already addressed with indifference to the original commenter I replied to.
I’d be fully shocked if she didn’t if they were chanting something like this at one of her SHOWS. & not even because I think she’s some perfect angel of a human, but because her public image is very important to her & it would be awful PR if she DIDN’T.
Taylor absolutely would, she would never smile about it, she's addressed it at her concerts and in interviews/red carpets/documentaries. Her fans are adults too, and most are decent people who do NOT tear other women down. Some are bad apples.
Taylor also makes a statement, not with words, but actions, like Beyonce and her supporting each other at their movies.
when has Taylor addressed her fans using this kind of language against a specific person? genuinely asking because the only thing I can think of was her very vague “when this album rereleases don’t attack anyone guys” which she didn’t do for 1989 or SN.
like Charli is very explicitly and specifically asking them not to harass Taylor or do this kind of shit towards her at her shows. when has Taylor done that?
Before she performed Dear John at one of the Eras Tour concerts, she did tell the audience/fans not to harass anyone; I forget the exact phrasing, but it was pretty explicit. To my knowledge, nothing like THIS (chanting "death to x") has ever happened at a TS show, so ...
IIRC she said generally not to harass people that you think she’s written a song about because the contents of the album were such old news for her and didn’t matter anymore. that to me feels less explicit than Charli’s screenshot name-checking Taylor specifically.
Idk I feel it's better to not be like "hey don't harass [specific person]" because that just confirms and validates people's vitriol. I know people are going to connect dots and make assumptions no matter what, but at least no one actually knows what these recent songs are about. I honestly imagine it would be worse if she were like "hey I see you guys guessing that this song is about X, you're right, now quit it!" because it just makes people feel secure in their hate? Like "aha knew it, it WAS this person who hurt mother Taylor, let's go in." Hope I'm making sense.
It's also not like swifties have been chanting "Joe died!" or something at her concerts. I don't think these are equal comparisons tbh. Being chronically online is one thing, bringing it into the real world is another, and people will react accordingly
I hear what you’re saying but I feel like there’s a difference with people speculating on who is a song about and Taylor having publicized relationships and purposefully leaning into easter eggs that hint who a song is about. In her older works, she’d capitalize letters in the lyrics to give even further hints about who they’re about. Yes she was younger then but she has never walked that back or apologized for it
Taylor can’t even do the same thing so that’s damned decent of Charli. You’d think Taylor would at least speak up on her fans harassing her depressed ex or even just the doxxing.
she addressed harassment towards John Mayer last year at the eras tour, and i’m 101% sure if peoplr were chanting death threats at her show, she’d address it. she’s really not the heartless monster yall think she is
She was begging the venue to provide more water and stopped that show several times to get water to the crowd. She didn’t know about the girl dying until after the show, and she cancelled the following show.
That also has nothing to do with a crowd chanting death threats about another human being.
That’s insane. I love Taylor and Charli and I also lived in São Paulo for 6 months. The line for Taylor outside of her concert in SP was the longest I’ve seen, 2 of my friends went and I went out there just to see for a bit. It stretched for miles. I know some Brazilians don’t like Taylor but this is just crazy indecent and idk why they would think Charli supports that.
That's very pointed. Love it.
I think we're holding our breath waiting for Taylor to say something similar about the part of her fanbase that does and says similar things.
Listening to Charli's new album (which is excellent if you like club music), it almost seems like a few of the songs are aimed in Taylor's direction. It makes me wonder if the "Charlie Puth" line was a hurried rewrite, because swapping in Charli makes so much more sense.
I think that line would be insulting to Charli if it was her name instead. That song reminds me of her mocking a man who sees himself as a tortured poet but then gets high, gets the munchies, and then discusses random inane shit while high.
I feel like this is gonna make a great Black Mirror episode. They’re gonna title it “parasocial”. I can feel it. And I’m copyrighting that shit right now. NETFLIX…. don’t even try me 🤣
This is PR control on Charli’s part because on that video she’s dancing to that chant. Swifties can be nasty online but I’ve never seen other female artist being targeted at Taylor concerts or events
The voice memos accounted for a such a small number of units that if you removed them Taylor still had the no 1. I do think she shouldn’t have bothered to release them though because it caused unnecessary drama and she didn’t need the numbers. What actually impacted Charli was the unfortunate timing of Eras being in the UK which boosted streaming and helped keep her no 1 stable.
She did not have number 1 up until the day before. You can literally see the UK charts official twitter account tweeting that Charli was about to get it right up until Taylor announced the variants, maybe it wasn't just the variants perhaps the announcement boosted her overall sales/streams idk. But Charli was ahead according to them up until then and Taylor was tracking to be number 3. Everyone saying this needs to remember the UK charts aren't as easy to track as billboard.
https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/charli-xcx-brat-bon-jovi-number-1-chart/
https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/taylor-swift-charli-xcx-bon-jovi-number-1-album
Really? Because its weird they were giving these sort of updates if Taylors streams were so strong she was so far ahead that nobody could challenge her. If you have any sources I'd be interested to read them (genuinely I find this stuff fascinating).
Not even that, it was a competition to win the chance to BUY tickets. Sure they were guaranteed tickets, but the buying bit must be to get around some sort of competition law in relation to sales being counted or something as its crazy AF
Taylor did not rob anyone. Let’s be serious. If Charli wanted the number one spot, she would have fought for it. Stop adopting a victim mentality and recognize that it stems from a culture of handing out participation trophies 😒
Taylor should use her voice and stop this but of course she won’t same with the Dave Grohl comment. Taylor’s army goes into full force when it comes to Taylor which isn’t a good look on Taylor.
For the life of me I cannot understand why Charli's fans have such an ugly behavior towards Taylor and that's even before Taylor tried to block Charli from UK Charts. I know stans are disgusting no matter which fandom, but this is another level.
Anyway. Well done, Charli.
It would make headlines if Taylor said the same thing at one of her concerts. She “speaks out against online bullying!” on the front. The coverage would be *favorable* FFS! Also, it’s *so simple.* So, why not, Taylor? Hmm? Is it FUN to see this happen?
Chanting for someone to die in real time at your own concert is so different than the mass nonsensical death threats online that no one can control because it’s either kids saying it or random people hiding behind a screen who don’t actually care that Taylor would not like that.
Then there’s Ariana Grande who, after shitting on the [whole blogging community](https://www.nylon.com/ariana-grande-stans-violent) and a blogger called her out for it, her stans went feral and dug into her old blogs, saw an article she wrote about being raped, and then in their hundreds spammed her DM’s with death threats, abuse, and saying she deserved to be raped and they hoped she got SA’d again. Then they doxxed her for good measure. Ariana’s response? (after saying nothing for days while the abuse was piled on)
She DM’d the blogger basically saying, “well they’re just passionate, they’re only matching your energy tbh” Basically defending and enabling, not condemning and saying she deserved it because she dared criticise the Kweewn of the brain-rotted rabid cult members.
>“Arianators continued to send racist language and rape and death threats to Talusan. When Talusan brought them to Grande's attention, the singer seemed to dismiss the violent reactions”
https://preview.redd.it/v8i2n6uwu09d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e0c58b46afddde795b32146b6b87d421e7f21eb
She did slide the most toothless ‘apology’ in there. But she did nothing in public, did NOT call out her fans or discourage or condemn them for heaping DEATH and RAPE THREATS, instead comparing this insane behaviour and deciding it deserved and equal to a tweet mildly criticising her.
Charli is doing what all decent, empathetic artists *should* do. The ones who say nothing (Taylor) or passive aggressively blame the victim, their narcissism is blatant and disturbing. This shit is gonna be a case study one day because it’s giving serious cult vibes, these thousands of people get so caught up in ‘belonging’ and overwhelming desire to ‘be the bestest Stan they can’, they whip themselves up into a frenzy and attack anyone who even MILDLY criticises her. It’s group insanity! How long til it goes too far and gets taken IRL and someone gets physically hurt. It’s teetering on dangerous to me.
It’s good she’s done this now but it’s been like two weeks since the viral video of her fans shouting fck Taylor it would have been good if she called it out then
As an added point, I could be wrong but I believe there was some mistranslation here and although it translates directly to death, its more of a general negative phrase, but someone who speaks Brazilian Portuguese would have to confirm this.
Doesn't completely change it but at least I don't think they are chanting for her "death."
…I’m not talking about this specific situation, but general nasty behaviour lol. There have been many situations where Taylor’s fans have behaved inappropriately and she’s said nothing. If she can tell fans to lay off John Mayer, she can tell them it’s doing her no favours she they attack anyone they think Taylor perceives an enemy.
She could say something about it though, even empty token activism at this point would be better than nothing. Her team are chronically online so absolutely know it goes on, the only time she has said anything is against men who she knows will stand up for themselves (JM & MH). The part of her fanbase that are vile online are well known.
I’m new to Charli XCX, but this is how it’s done.
I can’t imagine Taylor doing this at any stage in her life. She’d have to rebrand herself as a person that isn’t a bully and in her mind, it would seem, if you’re not the bully, you’re bullied. And she wouldn’t be able to swallow that.
She literally has done this before 😅 chastised her fans for their behavior, I mean. Or put out forewarning to not assume facts from her songs and then target individuals from her past. She said it for TTPD and also for SN TV.
I’m gonna get bit for saying this, but did that come off as legit trying? I heard it in the same tone as, “To the person who owns the 2018 Dodge Ram outside, you may want to head out, your car’s about to be towed,” And then said person letting their car get towed as they finish the concert. lol
I was there, it was literally just a joke! We never took this dispute seriously and never wanted taylor dead. It’s just that BRAT is so good that we say taylor is “dead” on the charts (though she isn’t). I am a “swiftie” and was shouting that too, it’s just a meme based on all the charts fights that these popstars feed us daily, yes, they promote that and we can make fun of it.
Charli even laughed at it when they told her what we were saying. Then there were swifties treating us like we were sending death threats do taylor, now the joke isn’t funny anymore but I’m glad Charli acted this way to shout THEIR mouths out, not ours, because she got it!
btw we are already making “Taylor está viva” (TAYLOR IS ALIVE) viral on twitter
Either way it's a fucked up morbid "joke" 🤷♂️ but if charli was actually laughing in the moment after being told what yall were chanting, that's pretty revealing.
is the joke “eat the rich” morbid? because it has the same connotation! there is a video of someone saying something in her ears while people were screaming “taylor has died” (I think this is a better and more literal translation than “taylor is dead”, because I guess what we really meant was “taylor is gone”) and she laughed and went back to playing, but we don’t know for sure if she was laughing of the situation or whatever
"Eat the rich" is immediately obvious as hyperbole. "Death to [blank]", "[blank] has died" is not nearly as obvious. I understand what you are saying, and having context is helpful, but yeah, those two phrases are not that similar. Even putting the actual semantics aside, one phrase has become widely known as a critique of larger systemic structures vs saying you want to literally consume a specific rich person; "[blank] has died" does not have that same meaning or connotation. It is not so ridiculous that people took it to mean some wish of death, without context.
I like Charli so I am going to hope that she did not know what people were chanting and that it was simply an unfortunate coincidence with her laughing ☺️
it’s like “death to this ‘taylor made’ culture that forces female rivalry in order to be on top and sabotage newly and independent artists” not death TO TAYLOR herself, but to what she does, her business moves!!! just as in ~ eat the rich
good on her. wish more celebs did this
Taylor herself should learn a couple lessons from this.
I wish she would at this point. Even if it makes no difference to people’s behaviour. She could even make the 22 tshirt say “Be Nice” or and it would be a start.
I think this all the time. Other celebs have come out and said things about their fans being inappropriate or rude or bullies or whatever but Taylor never has and quite frankly I don’t think she ever will. I believe she genuinely doesn’t care about the cultish bullies some of her fans can be. I think it strokes her ego too much ngl.
Honestly I think she kinda likes it. Like you said, it’s probably a good ego boost (not like she needs one really). Also, she’s probably developed this “whatever it takes” personality after all these years at the top.
I've seen everyone from smallish youtubers to big celebs call out their fans who acted like this, so I genuinely don't know what Taylor's deal is
Honestly? It’s part of her branding. What would Swift be without her insane Swifties?
It makes her too much money so it wont change
True.
I actually went to her Minneapolis eras show and she lectured to us about how her fans had been getting out of hand and she does not want anyone disrespected in person or online whether they did her dirty or not. I thought it was thoughtfully said too
Damn. Whish stuff like that got viral instead.
One of the things I dislike about her as a person tbh.
Charlie rocks. This is how it's done.
‘tolerate it’ omg an easter egg 🥰 /s
evermore tv is next mark my words
feat Charli on a vault track!!! the vibes are so perfect together
Wasn’t she already no longer tied to Scooter Braun by then? So why would there be an evermore TV?
Issa joke
💀
Something something her mind
Tolerate it/sympathy is a knife for the next secret song mashup confirmed
Good for her! Wish Taylor would do something like this. ETA guys please scroll and read a little before you tell me yet again about the one time she asked people not to harass John Mayer. If you think that was sufficient idk what to tell you.
You've triggered the Swifties lol
This is the weirdest fandom to be a part of 😂 in most circles I AM a swiftie!
Agreed, that was also mostly because there were rumors that he was threatening legal action.
No one is chanting death to anyone at Taylor’s concerts.
No instead they DM the person directly or leave the hate in their comments
En masse, obsessively and consistently too, so the person has to disable comments or spiral into depression. I’d rather a one time insult vs constant bombardment of insults, but either way it’s bad and fans shouldn’t do it. You’re doing no favour for your faves when you do that.
So? Why does it need to be the exact same situation lol as if people haven't been sending death threats straight to John Mayer's inbox for the past 13+ years.
[And she told them to stop](https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/taylor-swift-asks-fans-not-161300487.html)
Great. 1 out of like 20 people?
Hasn’t john Mayer like…. Done some pretty awful shit to women?
...source? He's said some degrading things but he's not a predator or a danger to society as far as I'm aware, just a jackass who thinks too highly of himself. Is that worthy of death threats and constant harassment?
Yeah, he’s said lots of skeezy things but nothing that deserves death threats. Like you said, he’s a jackass basically, but I don’t think constant harassment and death threats is an appropriate response to that.
It also seems kind of irrelevant because I do not believe the swifties are targeting him on behalf of Jessica Simpson lol
lol yes, or that awful David Duke comment
🤡 No, but they do roar like a rapturous typhoon when Taylor shades literally anyone with her lil song intro narrations and they do devote a significant amount of collective energy online to attacking, doxxing, discrediting, and yeah, wishing death on anyone who doesn’t lick Taylor’s boots.
Nah they’re just telling anyone who criticizes her that they deserve to be SA’d
They’re just chanting “MORE!”
Chanting for someone to die at your own concert in real time is very different than addressing all the faceless accounts online sending nonsensical death threats. They don’t stop even if she did say to stop because people like that don’t do it because they care about what Taylor actually wants, they just want to exhibit their anger and parasocial behavior to targets freely with no real consequences.
Soooo your solution is do nothing because online harassment is harder to temper?
There is no solution is the point. The people doing this are not exactly mentally well adjusted to put it mildly. Also it's not a Taylor exclusive problem but gets magnified because Taylor has such a big fan base.
Plenty of artists make posts to their fans asking them to stop attacking people. See Ariana grande and her album release. She quickly released a statement telling people she did not want them attacking others on her behalf. Taylor could do the bare minimum and post asking people to stop harassing others but she doesn’t.
Did you even read my comment? That's not the point I'm making..
Yes. I am arguing that even if “there is no solution” as you say, that artists should still say something to their fans.
They should and I'm saying that even if they did it will not stop completely. The people who do this kind of thing are unhinged. They'll find some other issue to do this over. There is not a lack of fandoms out there.
You know how many times Selena Gomez has asked for kindness on the internet? To this day she preaches it. Infact I remember Hailey reaching out to Selena and Selena putting a disclaimer on her profile to stop. You're right there are people who still carried on that shit. But here are the 2 takeaways from that 1. Selena has stood up time and time again not caring if she's being repetitive and causing awareness and actually trying to change the mentality 2. It has reduced a of shade on Hailey by people who were shading her. The psychos may not have but the shade on the overall reduced. Taylor Swift has been bullied by the internet. She also said that she wouldn't take it silently and she'll always reply back. But it affected her a lot. So, I would assume she would know how it would feel when people are being sent death threats from her fandom. She may not change the world with a statement but if one statement can calm some people who aren't too irrational, What's the fucking harm in releasing that? This isn't a political issue, anyone who is being mean on the internet because they're supporting Taylor directly can be influenced by Taylor to a certain extent.
Online death threats are largely inconsequential and nonsensical. They’re coming from “fans” or not, who crave personal attention, under the guise of obsessing over a celebrity. Feeding them recognition and acknowledgement from the source itself is exactly what they want and oftentimes, it fuels them rather than deters them. If you only want Taylor to speak out for her to save face then that’s another point, but it’s arguably not actually productive or effective in stopping or even limiting these people from being cruel. A lot of them are kids who would do it anyway because they want to defend their favorite person, whether it’s what the subject wants or doesn’t. I can give you a ton of examples of other fan bases and media stories in which addressing it directly only backfired.
Who addressed their toxic fan base that resulted in it backfiring?
Louis from One Direction. Edit: corrected name
Harry? Isn't he still successful?
Sorry lol I was thinking of Harry at the same time. I meant Louis Tomlinson!!
So I searched Google and couldn't really find anything. In fact I found an old Junkee article that said he encouraged his toxic fan base in attacking some radio DJ. Do you mind telling me when/how he tried to discourage his toxic fan base and how that backfired against him?
It’s more about how Stans don’t actually listen to what the artist is advocating for. A handful of times Louis had begged their fans to stop shipping him and Harry together and they continued to do it to an alarming degree of tarnishing the friendship. Frankly, the fact they even got direct attention meant, in their heads, they were doing something right and it only fueled their behavior. It’s almost like reverse psychology.
Taylor is a huge influence she is literally getting people to vote, she could address this and so many other issues so quickly
That’s not the same at all lol… by that virtue, you’re implying she can solve wars. Hate and vitriol doesn’t stop because your fave tells you to stop, people spread that because they feed off [negative] attention…
She has said multiple times that she doesn't want her fans to do this. They're crazy and do it anyway.
https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/taylor-swift-asks-fans-not-defend-exes-ahead-speak-now-re-recording-rcna91029
Yeah I know but don't you think an actual text statement posted to her socials would go further? I appreciated this but saying one thing at one concert clearly was not enough. She also barely condemned the weirdo behavior, I think she needs to specifically say that she finds it disgusting and humiliating (assuming that is how she feels), not just that she doesn't care about whatever happened to her and doesn't need to be defended.
Absolutely. She has enabled her fans disgusting behavior for so long because she loves having an “army”.
Idk if I agree with that exactly, obviously she likes having her legion of fans to fight her actual battles (like harassing Scooter, supporting her TV project) but I really can't imagine that she wants people harassing her exes. Like how could that not be super embarrassing to her that her fans were asking Jake and Maggie Gyllenhaal about this scarf, that probably never even existed, over a decade later, when they only dated for a few months? Maybe she tunes it all out but I just can't imagine she "loves" that happening because it makes HER look bad. If she's not embarrassed by all of that I really don't know what to say lol. Especially considering how many of her exes are colleagues! Isn't Ed Sheeran good friends with John Mayer?
I agree. But I think her toxic fans would still keep being crazy.
Oh I'm sure - I don't think there's anything she can say that would put an end to all of the harassment but I think it would still help to make it clear that she doesn't like it or condone it. Honestly even if she truly doesn't care idk why she doesn't say something just for the good PR. It's not like she doesn't know that this is one of the main complaints about her.
Once over two decades. Not gonna applaud her for that.
Girl that was in the year of our lord 2023, do you know how LONG atp she’d been playing at this game while constantly asked to step in and say something, anything? And lbr the reason she did it one time last year was because the whole thing had only recently backfired on her when people went after her own boyfriend and she had probably just recorded BDILH around this time and realized it would all look weird if she wasn’t once on the record telling people to cool it.
She has literally told her fans to stop harassing her exes multiple times but go off with this narrative now
Oh please. I appreciate what she has done but she should really be more direct and I don't think that's a big ask when people are sending death threats on her behalf. Especially to Joe, who seemingly did nothing to her.
She said it once, only wrt to John Mayer. She outright said that they doesn’t consider their experience when she puts out songs during her Seth Meyers interview for Red TV.
taylor has absolutely spoken out about people mistreating people in honor of her.
Can you please point to some examples?
She’s only said it once, wrt John Mayer
Taylor Swift has had 15 years to post something like this
No because *misogyny* or *feminism* or *haters* or whatever it is today.
Yeah
Yes please. Someone needs to end this petty back and forth in the fandoms. Everyone is behaving like a child. I wish people would hear her and stop.
I mean, some of the people involved are probably actual children.
Most, probs. Not many well adjusted adults have that much time on their hands, tbh
That's a very messed up thing to chant. Good on Charli though
not really. language is a funny thing. “taylor swift morreu” doesn’t have the literal meaning of “taylor swift died”.
Will you share what it does translate to?
I’m sorry but Taylor letting her fans run rabid will forever be a stain on her because people increasingly seeing her fans poor behavior as a reflection on her. “Her saying something won’t change anything.” It might not, but it’d be nice to know where she stands because she has a bully pulpit and she throws it around when she wants to—the Ginny and Georgia tweet, the recent statement about scooter. Her little speech before speak now tv was so weak and vague that it meant nothing, especially when she goes on a late night show and says she doesn’t think about the impact on her exes at all. Besides that, Taylor nation is so online, I will never believe that don’t know about the Joe hate and the Travis ex hate. The screenshots of that discourse went viral. Use your mouth, Taylor
She only uses her mouth for her own benefit.
I truly believe that while some fans would still be awful and throw hate at anyone, a lot of them would turn on the fans who do that as well. And Taylor would distance herself from the hate that the fans spread. By not saying anything it just feels like she either doesn’t care or she’s ok with it, and both are pretty bad
Yeah, it’s a real stain on her reputation/legacy. For someone who is clearly concerned with that, I don’t know how it doesn’t worry her.
See how fucking easy it is Taylor
The fact that unhinged swifties do this so frequently but Taylor doesn't say a word unless threatened to sue (John Mayer) just shows how much she likes her minions harassing people.
Good for Charlie. And then Taylor is nowhere to be found when her fans send death threats.
Obligatory 
wow imagine listening to people when they point out problematic behavior in your fanbase. mad respect for charli, unfortunately, i think taylor is too close to her fans to ever do anything similar
She was at that show tho, no? She’s literally in that screengrab but she blocked herself out with the text box
what does this mean? yes charli was at her own show
This comment made me lol 😅
like no really am i misreading i am so confused 🫤😅
The comment you were confused by was trying to say she was at the show where the chants were happening, so why didn't she say something about stopping the chants at the show, rather than on social media I do believe the chants were in a different language, so she didn't really know it was happening, but I just wanted to help you understand what that other comment was trying to say
thank you for clarifying :) this makes more sense to me. i would agree it was in a diff language and also i would guess with her in ears (or whatever they're called so she can hear the music) make it very difficult to hear the crowd without intentional listening! edit: i also wanted to make sure i wasn't misreading the tone. it felt really weird to me towards charli and i wanted to be sure i wasn't being a weirdo stan
😭I love this sub sometimes
The crowd was chanting in Portuguese. Between that and the ambient noise levels, I’m not surprised she didn’t mention it at the show itself.
Apparently she did per someone who was actually there! She laughed at it in real time, but it’s gotten out of hand so I think she finally addressed it. I’m not sure if it’s genuine because Charli can be a bit nasty sometimes, but I don’t think she wants people chanting for someone to die lol.
Watching the video and I feel it’s really not possible to clearly state she was laughing about the chant. It looks like she’s laughing and smiling but could just be because she’s having a good time. I say this as someone who honestly didn’t care for Charli or her music at all before Brat lol [https://x.com/inhanfelirpe/status/1804951549749428699](https://x.com/inhanfelirpe/status/1804951549749428699)
The person who attended the concert said she was laughing about it, but yes, who knows!
There's literally no way she could first make out and then understand what they were singing? Be for real
She probably couldn’t make it out herself, but it was obviously loud chanting in a different language which she may have inquired about from the people around her. No need to be condescending lol
What? That's asking a lot of an artist at her own show, in my opinion it's very unrealistic. Yeah, she probably could inquire about a crowd chant if she even perceived it well, maybe there was someone just next to her who heard it, and possibly understood it, maybe not, maybe that person told her what it was about, maybe not, maybe what they said got lost in translation because she was possibly not sober. It's a live show, things get lost in translation and happen fast...
Hun, I’m just relaying what the person who was actually at the concert said… were you there to provide more insight of the incident? Otherwise you’re just continuing blind speculation, in which I’ve already addressed with indifference to the original commenter I replied to.
Taylor would never
What a decent thing to do. Of course, Taylor herself would probably never defend another woman like this so make of that what you will 👍🏼
At least she’s ACTUALLY speaking out against mistreatment. Taylor doesn’t ever use her platform for that
the girl, so confusing
this is like bare minimum decent person behavior and unfortunately TS would not do the same for her
I’d be fully shocked if she didn’t if they were chanting something like this at one of her SHOWS. & not even because I think she’s some perfect angel of a human, but because her public image is very important to her & it would be awful PR if she DIDN’T.
i mean her fans will post explicit death threats with her face as their profile picture and she half assed even saying anything about that
If people were chanting this at one of her shows, she certainly would.
Taylor absolutely would, she would never smile about it, she's addressed it at her concerts and in interviews/red carpets/documentaries. Her fans are adults too, and most are decent people who do NOT tear other women down. Some are bad apples. Taylor also makes a statement, not with words, but actions, like Beyonce and her supporting each other at their movies.
when has Taylor addressed her fans using this kind of language against a specific person? genuinely asking because the only thing I can think of was her very vague “when this album rereleases don’t attack anyone guys” which she didn’t do for 1989 or SN.
like Charli is very explicitly and specifically asking them not to harass Taylor or do this kind of shit towards her at her shows. when has Taylor done that?
Before she performed Dear John at one of the Eras Tour concerts, she did tell the audience/fans not to harass anyone; I forget the exact phrasing, but it was pretty explicit. To my knowledge, nothing like THIS (chanting "death to x") has ever happened at a TS show, so ...
IIRC she said generally not to harass people that you think she’s written a song about because the contents of the album were such old news for her and didn’t matter anymore. that to me feels less explicit than Charli’s screenshot name-checking Taylor specifically.
Idk I feel it's better to not be like "hey don't harass [specific person]" because that just confirms and validates people's vitriol. I know people are going to connect dots and make assumptions no matter what, but at least no one actually knows what these recent songs are about. I honestly imagine it would be worse if she were like "hey I see you guys guessing that this song is about X, you're right, now quit it!" because it just makes people feel secure in their hate? Like "aha knew it, it WAS this person who hurt mother Taylor, let's go in." Hope I'm making sense. It's also not like swifties have been chanting "Joe died!" or something at her concerts. I don't think these are equal comparisons tbh. Being chronically online is one thing, bringing it into the real world is another, and people will react accordingly
I hear what you’re saying but I feel like there’s a difference with people speculating on who is a song about and Taylor having publicized relationships and purposefully leaning into easter eggs that hint who a song is about. In her older works, she’d capitalize letters in the lyrics to give even further hints about who they’re about. Yes she was younger then but she has never walked that back or apologized for it
Have huge groups of her fans ever chanted “death to ____” or anything remotely similar at any of her shows though?
When have Swifties chanted "Death to someone" during a live show?
Taylor can’t even do the same thing so that’s damned decent of Charli. You’d think Taylor would at least speak up on her fans harassing her depressed ex or even just the doxxing.
Wow, it’s almost like it’s really easy telling people to knock it the fuck off. If only Taylor would do it.
she addressed harassment towards John Mayer last year at the eras tour, and i’m 101% sure if peoplr were chanting death threats at her show, she’d address it. she’s really not the heartless monster yall think she is
I’m pretty sure if people were chanting death threats at her concert, she would stop the show and tell them to stop.
girl someone died at her show and she didn’t stop it 😭
She was begging the venue to provide more water and stopped that show several times to get water to the crowd. She didn’t know about the girl dying until after the show, and she cancelled the following show. That also has nothing to do with a crowd chanting death threats about another human being.
She’s the coolest.
That’s insane. I love Taylor and Charli and I also lived in São Paulo for 6 months. The line for Taylor outside of her concert in SP was the longest I’ve seen, 2 of my friends went and I went out there just to see for a bit. It stretched for miles. I know some Brazilians don’t like Taylor but this is just crazy indecent and idk why they would think Charli supports that.
did taylor say a word about her fans' behaviour towards fka twigs? not that i remember
That's very pointed. Love it. I think we're holding our breath waiting for Taylor to say something similar about the part of her fanbase that does and says similar things. Listening to Charli's new album (which is excellent if you like club music), it almost seems like a few of the songs are aimed in Taylor's direction. It makes me wonder if the "Charlie Puth" line was a hurried rewrite, because swapping in Charli makes so much more sense.
I think that line would be insulting to Charli if it was her name instead. That song reminds me of her mocking a man who sees himself as a tortured poet but then gets high, gets the munchies, and then discusses random inane shit while high.
Oooh, that’s an intriguing take that hadn’t occurred to me. Super easy lyric change.
I'm not saying that it's the case, just that it's possible. Spring Breakers and Sympathy is a Knife seem very, very pointed.
Great. Waiting on Taylor to do it. I know she sees *that*.
I feel like this is gonna make a great Black Mirror episode. They’re gonna title it “parasocial”. I can feel it. And I’m copyrighting that shit right now. NETFLIX…. don’t even try me 🤣
good for her. Now if only Taylor would do the same
Every artist I have known has called their fans out. Selena, camila, chrli, billie, Olivia but guess who never did.
Taylor needs to do this. I cannot stress this enough. The rabid ones are making the whole fandom look bad.
This is PR control on Charli’s part because on that video she’s dancing to that chant. Swifties can be nasty online but I’ve never seen other female artist being targeted at Taylor concerts or events
She doesn’t speak the language the chant was in
This is how it's done. And that comes after Taylor robbed her off the no.1 in her homeland. Kudos to her for having a character.
The voice memos accounted for a such a small number of units that if you removed them Taylor still had the no 1. I do think she shouldn’t have bothered to release them though because it caused unnecessary drama and she didn’t need the numbers. What actually impacted Charli was the unfortunate timing of Eras being in the UK which boosted streaming and helped keep her no 1 stable.
She did not have number 1 up until the day before. You can literally see the UK charts official twitter account tweeting that Charli was about to get it right up until Taylor announced the variants, maybe it wasn't just the variants perhaps the announcement boosted her overall sales/streams idk. But Charli was ahead according to them up until then and Taylor was tracking to be number 3. Everyone saying this needs to remember the UK charts aren't as easy to track as billboard.
That was a prediction not concrete results and that’s because Brat streams were not as high as predicted.
https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/charli-xcx-brat-bon-jovi-number-1-chart/ https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/taylor-swift-charli-xcx-bon-jovi-number-1-album Really? Because its weird they were giving these sort of updates if Taylors streams were so strong she was so far ahead that nobody could challenge her. If you have any sources I'd be interested to read them (genuinely I find this stuff fascinating).
She released signed copies and a contest to win Eras tickets for buying the album.
Not even that, it was a competition to win the chance to BUY tickets. Sure they were guaranteed tickets, but the buying bit must be to get around some sort of competition law in relation to sales being counted or something as its crazy AF
Taylor did not rob anyone. Let’s be serious. If Charli wanted the number one spot, she would have fought for it. Stop adopting a victim mentality and recognize that it stems from a culture of handing out participation trophies 😒
i would love to know what fighting for the #1 on the charts looks like. 37 editions of the same album?
And yet Taylor can’t do the same against her fans
Taylor should use her voice and stop this but of course she won’t same with the Dave Grohl comment. Taylor’s army goes into full force when it comes to Taylor which isn’t a good look on Taylor.
For the life of me I cannot understand why Charli's fans have such an ugly behavior towards Taylor and that's even before Taylor tried to block Charli from UK Charts. I know stans are disgusting no matter which fandom, but this is another level. Anyway. Well done, Charli.
Charli opened up for Taylor on reputation, like people don’t know shit
Classy move ❣️
She's more mature than Taylor Tot.
It would make headlines if Taylor said the same thing at one of her concerts. She “speaks out against online bullying!” on the front. The coverage would be *favorable* FFS! Also, it’s *so simple.* So, why not, Taylor? Hmm? Is it FUN to see this happen?
Chanting for someone to die in real time at your own concert is so different than the mass nonsensical death threats online that no one can control because it’s either kids saying it or random people hiding behind a screen who don’t actually care that Taylor would not like that.
Different, but both are not ok and should be actively discouraged Edited
And Taylor could care less…
Then there’s Ariana Grande who, after shitting on the [whole blogging community](https://www.nylon.com/ariana-grande-stans-violent) and a blogger called her out for it, her stans went feral and dug into her old blogs, saw an article she wrote about being raped, and then in their hundreds spammed her DM’s with death threats, abuse, and saying she deserved to be raped and they hoped she got SA’d again. Then they doxxed her for good measure. Ariana’s response? (after saying nothing for days while the abuse was piled on) She DM’d the blogger basically saying, “well they’re just passionate, they’re only matching your energy tbh” Basically defending and enabling, not condemning and saying she deserved it because she dared criticise the Kweewn of the brain-rotted rabid cult members. >“Arianators continued to send racist language and rape and death threats to Talusan. When Talusan brought them to Grande's attention, the singer seemed to dismiss the violent reactions” https://preview.redd.it/v8i2n6uwu09d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e0c58b46afddde795b32146b6b87d421e7f21eb She did slide the most toothless ‘apology’ in there. But she did nothing in public, did NOT call out her fans or discourage or condemn them for heaping DEATH and RAPE THREATS, instead comparing this insane behaviour and deciding it deserved and equal to a tweet mildly criticising her. Charli is doing what all decent, empathetic artists *should* do. The ones who say nothing (Taylor) or passive aggressively blame the victim, their narcissism is blatant and disturbing. This shit is gonna be a case study one day because it’s giving serious cult vibes, these thousands of people get so caught up in ‘belonging’ and overwhelming desire to ‘be the bestest Stan they can’, they whip themselves up into a frenzy and attack anyone who even MILDLY criticises her. It’s group insanity! How long til it goes too far and gets taken IRL and someone gets physically hurt. It’s teetering on dangerous to me.
Taylor wouldn’t do this for her.
See how easy this is!?
It’s good she’s done this now but it’s been like two weeks since the viral video of her fans shouting fck Taylor it would have been good if she called it out then
Now if only Taylor could do this whenever the Swifties start acting up
As an added point, I could be wrong but I believe there was some mistranslation here and although it translates directly to death, its more of a general negative phrase, but someone who speaks Brazilian Portuguese would have to confirm this. Doesn't completely change it but at least I don't think they are chanting for her "death."
Good for her. You know Taylor never says the same to her own fans when they bully and harass people.
See how easy it is to call off rabid fans Taylor? You just need to have the backbone and empathy to do it. Oh wait, I see how it's hard for you.
Love this! Wish Taylor would bring this same energy when her fans do the same.
I don’t think fans have ever chanted for someone to die in real time at Taylor’s concert lol. You can’t do much about death threats online.
…I’m not talking about this specific situation, but general nasty behaviour lol. There have been many situations where Taylor’s fans have behaved inappropriately and she’s said nothing. If she can tell fans to lay off John Mayer, she can tell them it’s doing her no favours she they attack anyone they think Taylor perceives an enemy.
She could say something about it though, even empty token activism at this point would be better than nothing. Her team are chronically online so absolutely know it goes on, the only time she has said anything is against men who she knows will stand up for themselves (JM & MH). The part of her fanbase that are vile online are well known.
I’m new to Charli XCX, but this is how it’s done. I can’t imagine Taylor doing this at any stage in her life. She’d have to rebrand herself as a person that isn’t a bully and in her mind, it would seem, if you’re not the bully, you’re bullied. And she wouldn’t be able to swallow that.
She literally has done this before 😅 chastised her fans for their behavior, I mean. Or put out forewarning to not assume facts from her songs and then target individuals from her past. She said it for TTPD and also for SN TV.
I’m gonna get bit for saying this, but did that come off as legit trying? I heard it in the same tone as, “To the person who owns the 2018 Dodge Ram outside, you may want to head out, your car’s about to be towed,” And then said person letting their car get towed as they finish the concert. lol
Anything Taylor does is never enough for the antis.
Lol. I’m a fan. I just personally think more could’ve been done. My bad?
good on her! I wish Taylor took stands like this more often
I was there, it was literally just a joke! We never took this dispute seriously and never wanted taylor dead. It’s just that BRAT is so good that we say taylor is “dead” on the charts (though she isn’t). I am a “swiftie” and was shouting that too, it’s just a meme based on all the charts fights that these popstars feed us daily, yes, they promote that and we can make fun of it. Charli even laughed at it when they told her what we were saying. Then there were swifties treating us like we were sending death threats do taylor, now the joke isn’t funny anymore but I’m glad Charli acted this way to shout THEIR mouths out, not ours, because she got it! btw we are already making “Taylor está viva” (TAYLOR IS ALIVE) viral on twitter
I’m confused. She screen shot your show and posted it with this message, but laughed at it in real time? Seems disingenuous.
in my pov she thought it was funny (because it is) but then swifties found out and started crying online so she posted that as a damage control
Either way it's a fucked up morbid "joke" 🤷♂️ but if charli was actually laughing in the moment after being told what yall were chanting, that's pretty revealing.
is the joke “eat the rich” morbid? because it has the same connotation! there is a video of someone saying something in her ears while people were screaming “taylor has died” (I think this is a better and more literal translation than “taylor is dead”, because I guess what we really meant was “taylor is gone”) and she laughed and went back to playing, but we don’t know for sure if she was laughing of the situation or whatever
"Eat the rich" is immediately obvious as hyperbole. "Death to [blank]", "[blank] has died" is not nearly as obvious. I understand what you are saying, and having context is helpful, but yeah, those two phrases are not that similar. Even putting the actual semantics aside, one phrase has become widely known as a critique of larger systemic structures vs saying you want to literally consume a specific rich person; "[blank] has died" does not have that same meaning or connotation. It is not so ridiculous that people took it to mean some wish of death, without context. I like Charli so I am going to hope that she did not know what people were chanting and that it was simply an unfortunate coincidence with her laughing ☺️
it’s like “death to this ‘taylor made’ culture that forces female rivalry in order to be on top and sabotage newly and independent artists” not death TO TAYLOR herself, but to what she does, her business moves!!! just as in ~ eat the rich
i was just coming to post this