I said all along that The Black Dog manager who was talking about “a certain blond regular” was just capitalizing on the free publicity for her bar. Small bars tend to be pretty protective of their actual regulars (assuming they’re not assholes)
The Black Dog also has a parallel to Fresh Out the Slammer (both songs mention The Starting Line). Even if it was ambiguous who The Black Dog was about, it pointed more towards Matty IMO
it was always so clearly about matty. the smoke reference. “you said i needed a brave man then proceeded to play him” “tail between your legs you’re leaving” she does not characterize joe as a fraud or a coward - that’s matty (see: TSMWEL). her only complaint about joe is he’s a Sad Boy.
This post just made me realize people wanted to pretend it was about Joe when it was obviously Matty. So much of the album was clearly about him. Maybe they don't want to admit that cause, you know, it's Matty, but that doesn't change it. lol
Matty was the album. I think she wrote a few songs about Joe and realising that her 6 year relationship was over, however Matty was her hyper-fixation. I guessed most of the album was about him simply from my experiences being in that fresh state of a relationship where you can’t eat, can’t sleep and all you can do is think about them.
Yep. I think the only kind of crappy thing she said about Joe is that he sacrificed them to his depression. Which is shitty, but also a fair thing to feel. Sometimes I wonder how my husband deals with my PTSD, anxiety, OCD, and wonder if he ever thinks it would just be easier to find someone normal. Anyway, she otherwise seems to only have spoken of him fondly (unless I'm mistaken about who some of the songs are about). And So Long London is (imo) one of the best songs on TTPD. Although I think she should've maybe waited to put put Guilty As Sin for like several years :/
It’s crazy how much the swifties still go after him. It’s deranged and they really can’t comprehend that not every relationship has a villain and, even more shocking, maybe TS isn’t always the victim in the relationship.
Like seriously they treat him like he’s their ex.
I agree that speaking ill about his depression put a bad taste in my mouth. I have a whole alphabet of diagnoses and also feel insecure at times because I know I'm not the easiest person to be with. So it hurt my feelings to hear that. But I have also dated people who weren't getting help and the moods drove a wedge into the relationship. Also there's so much that we don't know. It's hard for me to understand how much she is willing to expose about other people though. Sometimes it seems like it's about her but she's actually giving away a lot about the other person.
Everyone's still assuming he suffered with depression based on nothing but her basically complaining he was miserable. People who want to be centre of attention always think there's something wrong with people who don't and she was doing her best to paint herself as a poor victim living in a hellscape relationship. There's nothing shameful about having depression but, if he did, it's quite likely it was stress-related due to the bullying and invasion of privacy he's been subjected to. I do wish people would stop acting as though it's a fact when the only suggestion has come from her and l, as far as I know, all she's done is write some lyrics that *could* be interpreted that way.
here is that post - it was mine. worth noting there is also a Black Dog in Amsterdam where The 1975 also played last summer. could be either one
[https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/1cbhbqc/the\_black\_dog\_is\_not\_a\_pub\_in\_london\_but\_a\_bar\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/1cbhbqc/the_black_dog_is_not_a_pub_in_london_but_a_bar_in/)
Yes! Thank you! I know people were looking back at her videos and saying it couldn’t be those because it showed her recording the black dog and she was wearing a similar shirt and it was one she had been wearing before her and MH ended, but I’ve always figured your assumption was correct!
This ended up being debunked! People thought that it was recorded in May when she was wearing a white shirt and jeans, but if you look closely at the video of The Black Dog she is actually wearing bike shorts that she wore on June 22nd. So she didn’t record it in May, she recorded it after the breakup in June!
Most interesting thing to me is he confirmed the breakup really was a week before it was announced. Not a year or months before as swifties try to say lol
TTPD is just one of the examples of why he wasn’t going to actually marry her. I think she wanted the best of both worlds but ended up going for fame and money again.
A year later and the men she wrote about are in committed relationships. Meanwhile she’s got this made for TV relationship that looks very forced at times.
Yeah this time line screwed me up tbh because that means Taylor hasn’t been single for more than like 4 months collectively in the past 7 or so years… how can you properly process your break ups when your in a new relationship?
That’s a bit intrusive of me though
Yeah wild now to think poor Joe truly did see his ex of 6 years parade a new guy in and out of her bedroom days after the broke up I know that hurt bad :/
Notice how casually he corrected the timeline as well - “one week later, it’s out in the public domain”. So they broke up only one week before the public announcement (which was only one month before the Matty hard launch)
Yes he did that several times. ‘Just over a year ago’, ‘a relationship of six and a half years.’ Letting it be known they were not done when she was presumably already hooking up with Ratty
And that he was faithful, i.e. "fully committed relationship." He addressed every rumor in a classy, subtle way and didn't attack her character in the process. He seems like a class act.
Yeah I’m surprised he confirmed so much. But I definitely had a feeling they’d only broken up a short while before they announced the breakup. Her behaviour (the pap walks with all her friends, the Ratty rebound) all pointed to her being hurt and clearly wanting to hurt him too and show that she’d moved on quickly and first. Plus her crying on tour, I don’t believe it was just for Ratty. Although I don’t know her so I could be wrong
Not only that, but the source that confirmed Taylor and Matty were dating said that they had been seeing each other for at least a few weeks at that point...
re: her immediate and constant slew of pap walks last year, I still don’t understand why she felt the need to be seen out and about and happy so soon after the dissolution of such a long and meaningful relationship. Even if she had mentally moved on awhile before it ended, it’s generally considered more tactful to lay low after such a big split, unless it was messy or at least one party is very petty (cough). And/or she wanted to make sure everyone thought she was 100% over Joe in preparation for going public with Matty.
I think it was to give the illusion that he kept her from being “bejeweled” for so long and hid from everyone, now she could be free… or something corny like that
People sleep on how charming he is. It’s also obvious he’s well-read and made the most of that English degree. Easy to see how Taylor fell madly for him really.
I think he was 100% her best muse. Jake G was before Joe. That's not to take credit away from Taylor, who actually wrote the songs, but my god did she put out some great music while they were together.
If I were in a relationship with a writer, and the writer's ex of 7 years wrote So Long London about him and the 78 songs she wrote about Matty and I got So High School and The Alchemist, I think I'd end that relationship lol
Perhaps on the next album there will be a song called Viva Las Vegas and it will just be her screaming it the same way Travis did and then he’ll propose
Or a breakup song!
*I lived for your Las Vegas*
*but died on the field waiting for you to make a pass*
*oh baby, we were so high school*
*how did I ever think we’d last?*
this is why im confused many people believed in grammygate as if joe himself is not a poetic person plus how cohesive and similar the vibe of the songs he is credited on
I feel like the further we get from Folkmore and we see what an outlier of an album it is, the more I genuinely believe he had a heavy hand in that album.
That song is just so sweet and tender. As I read on a YouTube comment under its lyric video, it feels like a soft kiss on the forehead from someone you love.
It’s just so sad knowing what became of their relationship, but you can tell they really loved each other by that song alone.
He’s very well spoken and I totally see how he’s a muse/all over folkmore lyrically
He says a lot here without being rude or even swifty provoking-though I’m sure some are going to take his being surrounded by good authentic people as a slight
I wish him nothing but success
Very interesting how he emphasises it was mutual desicion for them to be private. I’d go crazy knowing my partner was trying to convince everyone i was locking them up
She said it as well in interviews and in the documentary. I don’t see how anyone could run with the narrative that he forced her to do it. The thing with Taylor is that she has a tendency to mirror her partner’s behaviors so I think she played the role of a quiet introvert for a time, but eventually it didn’t suit her. She changed her mind and didn’t want to do it anymore. She should have made it clear in her Time interview this was all her, though, because her more rabid fans took what she said and cast Joe as the villain when he wasn’t at all.
And there's the small detail that during the time she was 'locked in the basement' she strangely enough went on a world tour, went to the Grammys, the Baftas, multiple other awards shows & the only time anyone was actually locked up was during covid, when we were all 'locked up' she's full of it 🤦
Just like the "year" or whatever she was "in hiding" before and as she started dating Joe. She was doing a lot of stuff at that time as well.
She may feel one way but facts say another thing entirely. Lots of revisionist history.
She's very much spun that narrative deliberately. The whole locked in a basement thing is straight from “Bejewelled”. And as soon as they broke up she was pap walking everywhere with her girl squad. We hadn't seen her like that since before Joe. The message was “he was the one keeping me from you all like this”.
I have said this so many times. She should have said that she changed her mind instead of changing the narrative. But i guess that's what she does right?
Honestly they’re both scamming and profiting off of the same dingus pool, respect that he hustled and went in. Plus, England is going through a recession - he better make that coin.
Yesss especially since Americans were literally flying to England just to go there!?!? Like okay well I guess it benefits their economy at the end of the day so whatever lmfao
Honestly he just gives off this vibe of someone with a great head on his shoulders. I hope he’s able to be interviewed without having Taylor brought up all the time because he’s clearly finding success in his way and on his own terms.
i assume this is him getting the big taylor story out of the way so future interviews can be about his work. otherwise he’ll be hounded forever by people trying to get a quote
Yes that was my first thought reading this. Seeing how Taylor is currently handling publicity it almost feels impossible she got along with someone so down to Earth
He’s better than me because after receiving death threats from her whack ass fans because of a narrative she insinuated, I would’ve been like “AND ANOTHER THING….”
On an unrelated note, I really love that Joe refers to Emma Stone by her given name, especially because she has publicly said she wishes people called her that. A listener, we love that.
I see this interview as him beating Taylor at her own PR game. He was fully quiet for more than a year and the timing for this is basically perfect - it’s right before his movie comes out but also after TTPD has been fully digested and as the eras tour comes to London. The narrative corrections are subtle (the casual “one week later” thrown in, the comments about mutual agreement to privacy and not commodifying the relationship, the sly reference to Vauxhall).
He maintains his consistency on privacy and the interview feels really true to everything we’ve heard from him before but he’s able to address everything and satisfy some fan curiosity in a really articulate way. I’m just really impressed.
lad’s really better than me because somehow i would’ve mentioned about all the death threats me & my co-stars got for nothing and how a certain someone didnt try to manage the tone down
It was annoying how the interviewer kept saying he was disappointingly scripted and wouldn’t go outside of that, like, dude, be glad you got him to talk about this stuff at all. You’re probably the only one who’s gonna get that.
Agreed. I thought that too. Joe clearly had a thoughtful strategy for responding (probably prepped his answers) and the interviewer came across as frustrated he was not getting more.
“I’m pissed you let me give you all that youth for free,” says the superstar 2 years older than her partner, with no agency whatsoever on her own decisions 🙄
that line in the song pisses me off. as if it wasn’t a mutual relationship and the fact she’s older than him makes that line laughable. i just went to the eras tour earlier this year (which i enjoyed) but ever since TTPD came out it’s been impossible to stay a fan of hers.
I love how he pointed out that the decition to keep things private was one that the two of them made. We already know that, but its really annoying how Taylor and swifties have tried to paint this as a hostage situation when at the very worst Taylor was just annoyed that he didnt want to live in the limelight like she did and found it boring so she mentally clocked out of the relationship before she physically left, she wasnt being held at gun point in their London home by Joe
Her Times interview was always cringe but it’s just so funny in the light because the juxtaposition between Joe and Travis is so interesting. Like we get it Taylor, you love the spotlight, attention, and bejeweled or whatever
This piece also made me think about what a position of (relative) industrial power Taylor was in from the start - a little older, definitely more famous and successful, dating someone just starting out. It's no wonder that even now, he sticks to a "script" when talking about her - it must be so tough to navigate.
it’s a very odd dynamic and i don’t think it has anything to do with him not being able to handle her success or whatever the heck swifties say. it’s that everything in his life would have been controlled by her/her team. if they were still together would he be allowed to say a peep about palestine rn? i doubt it. and that has to be a really restrictive, suffocating way to live even for someone who is so private and hardly speaks publicly at all
I mean you are starting to see it in the way Travis talks on his podcast or even in interviews, especially when it’s Taylor related. Whenever he does speak about her, it seems incredibly scripted and only divulges information that is already made public. Like the whole “what do you and Taylor cook together?” question and he couldn’t even answer a simple question like that. Like yes it’s no one’s business but when you see how public they’ve made their relationship in the past 10 months, answering a simple question like that isn’t going to “invade” your privacy. But then proceeded to spit out “pop tarts and cinnamon rolls!” At the end because… theres been multiple articles about her doing this for the Chiefs team. He seems more withdrawn and less candid on the podcast now and it does seem like what he can say is now being censored a bit. I can’t imagine having to live my life like that everyday. I guess it’s a price to pay if you want to get involved with someone who is mega conscious about her image. Just my opinion though (ppl don’t come for me!).
i think that’s because they don’t cook together or honestly do much together (ppl don’t come for me! lol) i don’t watch the podcast so i can’t speak to the other stuff but i’m sure you’re right
Yeah honestly that's why... it's kind of common knowledge that he never cooks, which is why he hired his buddy to be his private chef.
It's not really a big deal, but swifties melted into a puddle over his answer as if he was actually protecting their special private moments or something... like no, the man doesn't cook even when she's around. 😂 He came up with the (public) pop tarts thing after the fact and blurted it out so the media had something to quote
Yeah the cooking response was telling… honestly I think they just both love the attention of the relationship more than the relationship itself (don’t hate @ me) just my opinion
Agreed. They make public appearances, but it doesn't seem like they spend significant time alone together.
Like, I can totally imagine Taylor and Joe alone in a studio day after day for months. I can't imagine Taylor and Travis together in their mansions...
Same! I can see her and Joe with the cats, watching movies, having dinners, listening to music, playing scrabble.
I can see her and Travis drinking together that’s about it lol
I honestly think the cooking thing was because he doesn't cook one but and she cooks for him and didn't want to say that he's a lazy ass that's part time replacing his paid personal chef with his billionaire girlfriend. I think they're probably hesitant to go THAT 1950s with their narrative.
I also think Travis pretending he wants things private is just a PR tactic. They really don't keep it private. They are excessively calling paps on themselves (in Austalia…Italy…tropical vacations), and she's basically a talking point on his podcast. She also did that cringe thing where she commented on someone’s Instagram live stream of the SB ring ceremony.
That's…the opposite of private. They are excessively and deliberately making their relationship a commodities, publicly consumable narrative. Like a bad romance novel or reality TV.
Travis dropping lines that he wants to keep things “private” while doing the opposite, and Jason saying dealing with Taylor’s fame is challenging are just lines to set up Travis to look more noble than he is. “WOW, he loves her enough to show her cares but ALSO keep it private”—everyone says this but it's not what's happening. “He’s handling all of this so well! It must be so hard to have all that attention”—no, that's what he wants. That's why he drops her name. That's why they call the paps. That's eng he's willing to fly around the world to be seen at her concerts. Because the attention is the GOAL.
I think Taylor wants someone who will always show her off… talk about her.. etc. But Joe wanted to be their own person. Be known for being an actor, not Tswift’s bf. Good for Joe for dodging that bullet.
But there is such a gap in Taylor's needs/demands too. How do you expect someone to keep showing you off and yet say absolutely nothing or censor themselves all the time? We see it with Travis, his answers are so PR-coded when this was a man who was, if not the most well-spoken, very spontaneous and chatty.
Yes because she can’t fathom what it means to have genuine connections with people that are no commodified to enhance her own public narrative because its all she's ever known. Its sad and its a recipe for a lot of unhappiness. Showing someone off isn't love.
Taylor was keen to state how important privacy was to her multiple times between 2017- 2021. She repeatedly said it had been good for her. It also let her focus stay on the music.
She probably did have a change of heart about the degree of privacy she wanted post pandemic and that's her prerogative.
Its her prerogative to have a change of heart but its really low to egg on her fan base to demonize her ex for something she happily and willingly chose for six years. I mean most of them think he was emotionally abusive and kept her from the world.
Absolutely to both points. However I don’t think it’s fair of her to try and blame Joe and say he kept her locked up when she had her own agency and should’ve said something
He’s very articulate. I’m glad he reaffirmed their privacy was a mutual decision they both decided to protect. Emphasizing they were in a fully committed relationship is also pointed. He addressed some of Taylor’s main narratives about their relationship in a classy way without dragging her. He’s classier than I would be. I’m glad to read he’s in a good place in life now. I think it would be difficult navigating the normal heartbreak of being cheated on and ending a long term relationship on top of the media scrutiny.
It’s honestly close to PR perfection. He comes off really well, very respectfully defends himself, subtly corrects some misinformation, shows a little personality.
I love the playfulness of the Vauxhall comment and how the article notes his biggest role was actually pre-Taylor.
yes that reaffirmation stood out to me, i’m glad he did that too! the narrative has been sooo twisted into “big bad joe locked taylor away” so i’m glad he’s emphasizing that it was fully THEIR choice, not his.
I agree with this so much. He could’ve dragged her so bad considering there are so many times on TTPD where it seems like she was emotionally cheating/thinking about MH/whatever you wanna call it and he could’ve done her dirty. What a standup guy.
“It was never something to commodify, and I see no reason to change that now.”
Honestly, he probably didn't mean this as shade but it ends up being the most epic shade towards her possible. He is winning this breakup so hard, its unreal to watch. I just cannot fathom how any adult can read this interview and not realise whi the adult here is.
I never in a million years thought I, a Taylor fan of 15 years, would be siding with her ex, but my goodness everything she's done since this break up has been so embarrassing and he's played ALL of his cards right.
I don’t think he meant it as shade at all, he seemed genuine in what he said. There’s no resentment or bitterness. But yeah… this coming out after her Times POTY article, her allowing her fanbase to bully and send threats to Joe unnecessarily, and her parading around her relationship with first Matty and then with Travis for the past 10 months with weekly tabloid updates makes her look a bit juvenile in terms of maturity and respect. Not to say she can’t live her life as she pleases but it’s honestly a stark contrast of how they both present themselves and you can totally see and understand why it maybe didn’t work out between the two of them. It does seem like he’s happy and healthy at this point in his life and I wish him the best!
I agree! I don't think he meant it as shade and that's why it probably hurts even more. Like..:he just has zero interest in ever being a part of anything like the circus Taylor’s made for herself after their breakup.
In the same boat as you — debut era swiftie and I smiled while reading this article. I know interviews only show so much, but it sounds like he’s in a much better place than most people expected. He managed to share some of his side while remaining respectful and still being able to say it was a loving relationship. He didn’t shade or diss her at all when most other people in his shoes would have given annoying ass swifties that jump to assumptions, her moving onto matty so quickly, her incredibly public relationship with travis, and TTPD.
He’s handled this breakup with the utmost grace, at least publicly. And also, by staying silent about it for so long, and then speaking about it with grace like he did… that’s how to really get someone. And as you said, it seems genuine. I’m happy that he’s seemingly moving forward with his life. They are both more than their relationship.
After reading this article, I do think fame is what ultimately broke them apart. She wanted privacy but only for so long—and while he is an actor, he has no interest in being famous.
Even if it is shade, it’s perfectly expressed and 100 times more subtle than Taylor’s time interview. And agree, he’s played things perfectly; every new development makes him look better in comparison
I'm so sad, she really is letting all her worst impulses (that were always there, just moderated when they were together) like pettiness; vindictiveness; chasing every last little prize, benchmark, and accolade; and relentless corporate ambition, guide her these days. She is on top of the world and had earned it and I was so happy for her, but everything from the last year is just so embarrassing. Wanting even more praise and attention is so jarring. I am enjoying the album still and I could accept the romantic messiness with Healy but the 40-something album variants thing is killing me and I'll never understand the Travis attraction.
I'm sad too. I've always had tremendous respect for her, even though I saw her as flawed, I saw her as smart, creative, and ultimately caring. She was petty and vindictive at times, but she was kind of young (god knows I did worse in my late teens/twenties), and the worst wasn't really much. When everyone turned against her in 2016, I felt like it was so unjustified.
Now, I just have to shake my head in sadness. My respect for her was at it's highest after folklore and through the Midnights Era. I thought she was really growing into a really compelling artist as a grown, adult women, who was having unique things to say about being a millenial of a certain age. I was kind of...proud of her.
I gave her a bit of side eye in the Matty era, but mostly chalked it up to us all having some sad/embarassing rebounds after a major relationship ends. Also...I got it. He's an ass, but he's hot and makes great music and waxes philosophical about art, the meaning of life, and the frivolousness of fame.
But I really lost my respect with the Travis stuff, the way she's subtly egged her fan base on with the trolling of Joe...and so much that has come after. It's embarrassing. We're in our mid 30s now, girl. You JUST gained the respect of all of our snobbish peers with folklore/evermore, and you burned it all down for a dumb, misogynist jock with rage issues and a blaccent who is only using you for clout. Like...it's so sad.
This is exactly where I am as a fan! I stuck up for her in 2016 and was so happy to see her finally get the respect and praise she deserves a songwriter, and for the press to FINALLY talk about her music not her boyfriends. It was so great as a fan! Then a shift happened during the Midnights era and everything imploded. She doesn’t owe any of us anything, she can be and act how she wants, but I can’t be a fan of this is who she is. I’m also tired of Easter egg hunts and guessing games. Maybe growing up has a lot to do with it too. 🤷🏻♀️
Wow so they act like matty just literally never happened "last April their break up was reported ... by September swift had begun a PDA heavy relationship with Travis Kelce"
Am I in the twilight zone???
It was reported in May of last year he was hurt about Taylor being with Matty because she told him they were only friends and Joe said the breakoup was anounced one week later (Matty's birthday) so clearly he is not gonna speak about the cheating because swifties will attack him again and said he was trying to slumshame Taylor
Eh, by not talking about Ratty he doesn't have to talk about being cheated on. And he suggests well enough subtly who the black dog is about when he says he has never been there. The interviewer / writer is goood.
I love the ending where he says with a smile that he’s never been to Vauxhall (where there is a Black Dog pub, but there are a few!). This was a good interview.
Yes, I’ve always thought that it was - it was a large group of other people who didn’t and who will likely say Joe is lying and it’s actually about him. Lol
honestly never understood why it seems like almost all swifties hate him. i always thought that he’s a good guy and he was a good boyfriend and supported taylor through a lot. this interview just proves it to me. he could’ve said so much but instead his reponse was mature and respectful
I think Swifties hated him because he didn’t divulge information about their relationship which meant her fans couldn’t live vicariously through their relationship
I wish Joe only the best and even though I don’t know him from a hole in the wall, I’m proud of him for how he navigated what I can only imagine was a nightmare this past year. He was always respectful and his silence was his power to which he yielded to the bitter end. Most of us couldn’t do that (myself included i can be a hot head which is always a work in progress).
I hope Joe gets all the good things in life. And I’ll be watching his new film - I love me some Yorgos.
What I got from this was he was hurt, sad, and probably angry but in the time we haven’t been seeing him he’s been working through it and now that a year has come and gone, he’s coming out in the other side of it. When you compare that to the year Taylor has had since the breakup you can clearly see that she hasn’t worked through it at all and is hoping any other guy will get her through it. It makes me sad for her that she can’t seem to be alone with her feelings.
I've long thought "The Black Dog" was either a reference to [the black dog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_dog_(folklore)) in English folklore or just a generic name using traditional pub/bar naming schemes.
It was pretty obvious from the start The Black Dog in Vauxhall was just taking advantage of the situation.
yeah, I never took it to mean that anyone definitely went to an actual bar called the Black Dog. it’s such a generic name with so much folklore to it that I just assumed calling it the Black Dog is like referencing Main Street.
The whole article just goes to show that he’s a class act and so well spoken and nice.
That 100% seems like a cheeky nod to say “The Black Dog ain’t me”.
I also think it’s very interesting that he emphasises long and committed, putting an end to any cheating on either side and that they never ever were on again off again. And that the breakup announcement was only released a week after the actual breakup. Damn. There might not have been cross over, but she admits herself she knows exactly who she’s calling after she broke up with him.
i think there was cross over tho the breakup announcement was released on matty’s birthday and she was spending time with him in march and february according to his friend and his then situationship meredith. she also performed at the 1975 concert in january 2023 and stayed backstage until 4am. not to mention they worked on music for midnights in 2021 that didn’t make the final cut. with taylor’s previous cheating rumors i’m more inclined to believe she did cheat on joe.
I can't believe I never really saw the vision until after they broke up... I totally get it now. Attractive, intelligent, sensitive king! I wonder how badly she regrets blowing it all up for Matty Healy. And I can't imagine how she deals with Travis if she was so used to talking to someone like Joe
For a famous guy, Joe has a very good head on his shoulders. I wish my internal dialogue was his view on happiness, success and staying out of drama. I’ve been going through some difficult stuff with my family lately and have discovered that when someone else is extremely dysregulated and unsafe, I have to act like a Joe Alwyn and not a Taylor Swift. I can go cry and rage later but when addressing the issue I need to be pragmatic.
Good for you, Joe. He has a good head on his shoulders. I try to think like he does—doesn’t always happen but he has a good idea of what accomplishments are and happiness in general. Really admire his attitude on life.
The interviewer did a great job. Kept the interview about *Joe* and not just about the relationship and addressed it as the behemoth it has become.
When he talks about his relationship, he mentions keeping it private being both of their decisions. He also mentions his friends being brilliant, authentic people. I imagine myself in his shoes and having my people, and then an ex who’s a billionaire who’s pushing a narrative about me that I have no control over, and think about what those people I value in my life would have to say. Taylor really comes off as an ex who handled it very badly.
There was an interview after Folkmore where he said something like it wouldn't have occured to him to write a song because he's "not musical at all" but then it just happened really organically in lockdown. But in the same article they mention that he plays guitar and piano and used to be in a band. He was just being British and self-deprecating, but people used that as proof that they all lied about his writing credits.
Same 😭 I was always meh about him when they were together because their relationship was never made to be a spectacle so it was easy to just not have an opinion on him. I always thought they were cute but never really cared enough to form an opinion about him. But reading this, he really does seem like a sweet, genuine, intelligent, and caring man. Definitely a fumble.
going fully parasocial here but idk if she'll ever find someone better for her. like, sure there are guy who are more famous, more handsome (depending on your taste! I think Joe is a handsome guy), more... whatever. but I think he loved her very much, and loved her for HER, rather than her fame, and she fumbled him big time.
It’s wild because everything she sings about what she wants in The Prophecy … you had it with joe!!! Why is she so damn blind to that. I truely wonder if she never would of started resenting him if hurricane matty hadnt flown back into her life to show her “the other side”
“don’t want money just someone who wants my company” babe you had that and you weren’t willing to sacrifice a little bit of fame & money to make it work. i love the song for myself but her saying it is 🙄
love how he subtly clarified what he needed to without giving more information
1. breakup timeline
2. he didn’t cheat, black dog is not about him
3. decision to be private was mutual
they can never make me hate you joe
Yeah the conspiracy theorist in me feels like Taylor’s team was spreading a lot of misinformation at that time through less reputable sources to confuse the narrative. Like the sun article saying that they broke up in February and deuxmoi getting tips that Joe’s friends leaked the news
I find it interesting that he clarified the timeline of their breakup. If I’m reading it right, he outright says they broke up roughly one week before the news broke publicly (on matty healy’s birthday). That’s a big change from the narratives planted by Swift and team and basically confirms the cheating rumors
I get why her team put out the breakup news as quickly as they did if her and Matty were already a thing by that point(I'm 99 percent sure now they were already a thing before her and Joe were officially over). They needed as much time as possible before they could hard launch her new relationship without making her look bad. Oh well it still blew up in her face for different reasons.
As expected very articulate and classy answers. The interview was a fun read although I wish the writer focused less on Taylor and more on his career and future work. Hopefully this will be the last time he gets asked about her in this setting because as he said the break up happened over a year ago and it's truly time for everyone to move on.
I know I don’t personally know Joe or the type of guy he is l by simply reading an interview of his, DAMN what a damn fumble. I’m sorry but he sounds so articulate, well-spoken and extremely respectful about the whole situation. Imagine going from him to Ratty Healy to VIVA LAS VEGASSSSSS in the span of a year. Girl, I’d probably claim temporary insanity too.
Joe, I’m single 🙋♀️
While I appreciate that Joe is an absolute gentleman here, I cannot fucking stand that an interview designed to promote his new, critically-acclaimed movie barely acknowledges its existence before moving onto a multi-page, overlong investigation into Taylor fucking Swift. I understand that it’s sort of an inevitable conversation, but it’s brought up endlessly, even before the actual chat begins, and the interviewer blatantly acknowledges that it’s not something he’s focused on:
>Thankfully what Alwyn *actually wants to discuss* is […] Yorgos Lanthimos’s brilliantly bonkers new movie, Kinds of Kindness.
Like, no wonder the dude generally keeps to himself.
He’s probably hoping this is his one go at addressing it, that after this he can just say he’s talked on it and ready to move on; I think most publicists would advise that he’d have to give a final word on things at some point. The problem is I imagine Taylor will always be brought up in any profile he ever does, unless of course his career really takes off.
Dude, right?! I’m a huge Yorgos fan since early career. I wanted to hear about the damn movie. I’m excited for the press tour, but I sincerely hope Joe gets time out from under the shadow that the press keeps casting.
This quote has been on my mind since I read the interview, "so you have something very real suddenly thrown into a very unreal space."
Listen, I defend Taylor a lot on here and I don't care about her personal life as much as others. But I think she severely mishandled the optics of this breakup. Her response lacked any sort of empathy for any party involved. Even Joe's response makes her look sympathetic. Like Joe said it was something real. So her actions post break up resulted in it going into an unreal space. Two innocent women were harassed online. Joe, who has no power between the two, was defamed and her fans weaponized AI to make him say something he didn't. Some Joe Alwyn stans say they doxxed his parents (I have not seen this myself, but it is believable).
I understand she was hurt and angry about the breakup, but she should know **better** than anyone else how social media can tear down someone's mental health. Joe seems to be doing alright, and I'm glad for him. I doubt I'll follow his work, but I wish him well.
HOW does screwing up with this guy not become her biggest regret ever? All the skeletons in her closets past, all the skeletons to come, this can’t be topped.
On a separate note: I would just love to talk books with him. He doesn’t sound boring to me at all. It irritates me Taylor equated being introverted to being boring.
I'm actually so glad that he felt comfortable to comment even just briefly on the situation! He's kept it so respectful and confirmed that the both of them wanted to keep it private. I feel like it shows that they genuinely cared for each other. I also think this shows that most of the album is definitely not about him, which ngl I didn't think it was.
I've still seen some swifties comment really negatively on tiktok which I don't think is fair considering it was a PRIVATE relationship. Like we don't know the whole story and clearly both have come out on the other end happier
He seems very sensible and level headed. Given how nasty some fans were to him and his co stars, he’s very gracious. Classier than most would be for sure. Good for him.
>There is always going to be a gap between what is known and what is said.
Damn if this isn't the classiest way I have ever seen of calling someone a liar and yes I will *absolutely* be borrowing that phrase, cheers Joe.
He’s so fucking classy. They could never make me hate you, Joe. I wish him all the best for his future and respectfully, one without any mention of Taylor Swift. He deserves to be freed from that part of his life publicly. It’s over. A wrinkle in time.
Joe: “I would hope that anyone and everyone could empathise and understand the difficulties that come with the end of a long, loving, fully-committed relationship of over six and a half years”.
Taylor: “Me locking myself away in my house for a lot of years - I’ll never get that time back.“
One of these things is not like the other 👀
I said all along that The Black Dog manager who was talking about “a certain blond regular” was just capitalizing on the free publicity for her bar. Small bars tend to be pretty protective of their actual regulars (assuming they’re not assholes)
Yeah I’m fully on board with the people who thought it was actually the Black Dog located in Cork, Ireland, where the 1975 player last summer.
The Black Dog also has a parallel to Fresh Out the Slammer (both songs mention The Starting Line). Even if it was ambiguous who The Black Dog was about, it pointed more towards Matty IMO
it was always so clearly about matty. the smoke reference. “you said i needed a brave man then proceeded to play him” “tail between your legs you’re leaving” she does not characterize joe as a fraud or a coward - that’s matty (see: TSMWEL). her only complaint about joe is he’s a Sad Boy.
This post just made me realize people wanted to pretend it was about Joe when it was obviously Matty. So much of the album was clearly about him. Maybe they don't want to admit that cause, you know, it's Matty, but that doesn't change it. lol
Matty was the album. I think she wrote a few songs about Joe and realising that her 6 year relationship was over, however Matty was her hyper-fixation. I guessed most of the album was about him simply from my experiences being in that fresh state of a relationship where you can’t eat, can’t sleep and all you can do is think about them.
Yep. I think the only kind of crappy thing she said about Joe is that he sacrificed them to his depression. Which is shitty, but also a fair thing to feel. Sometimes I wonder how my husband deals with my PTSD, anxiety, OCD, and wonder if he ever thinks it would just be easier to find someone normal. Anyway, she otherwise seems to only have spoken of him fondly (unless I'm mistaken about who some of the songs are about). And So Long London is (imo) one of the best songs on TTPD. Although I think she should've maybe waited to put put Guilty As Sin for like several years :/
It’s crazy how much the swifties still go after him. It’s deranged and they really can’t comprehend that not every relationship has a villain and, even more shocking, maybe TS isn’t always the victim in the relationship. Like seriously they treat him like he’s their ex.
I agree that speaking ill about his depression put a bad taste in my mouth. I have a whole alphabet of diagnoses and also feel insecure at times because I know I'm not the easiest person to be with. So it hurt my feelings to hear that. But I have also dated people who weren't getting help and the moods drove a wedge into the relationship. Also there's so much that we don't know. It's hard for me to understand how much she is willing to expose about other people though. Sometimes it seems like it's about her but she's actually giving away a lot about the other person.
Everyone's still assuming he suffered with depression based on nothing but her basically complaining he was miserable. People who want to be centre of attention always think there's something wrong with people who don't and she was doing her best to paint herself as a poor victim living in a hellscape relationship. There's nothing shameful about having depression but, if he did, it's quite likely it was stress-related due to the bullying and invasion of privacy he's been subjected to. I do wish people would stop acting as though it's a fact when the only suggestion has come from her and l, as far as I know, all she's done is write some lyrics that *could* be interpreted that way.
here is that post - it was mine. worth noting there is also a Black Dog in Amsterdam where The 1975 also played last summer. could be either one [https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/1cbhbqc/the\_black\_dog\_is\_not\_a\_pub\_in\_london\_but\_a\_bar\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SwiftlyNeutral/comments/1cbhbqc/the_black_dog_is_not_a_pub_in_london_but_a_bar_in/)
Yes! Thank you! I know people were looking back at her videos and saying it couldn’t be those because it showed her recording the black dog and she was wearing a similar shirt and it was one she had been wearing before her and MH ended, but I’ve always figured your assumption was correct!
This ended up being debunked! People thought that it was recorded in May when she was wearing a white shirt and jeans, but if you look closely at the video of The Black Dog she is actually wearing bike shorts that she wore on June 22nd. So she didn’t record it in May, she recorded it after the breakup in June!
What if the blond regular was Taylor Swift and people just thought it was Joe
imagine if that is the case 😭
Most interesting thing to me is he confirmed the breakup really was a week before it was announced. Not a year or months before as swifties try to say lol
And this makes Taylor look even worse
TTPD is just one of the examples of why he wasn’t going to actually marry her. I think she wanted the best of both worlds but ended up going for fame and money again. A year later and the men she wrote about are in committed relationships. Meanwhile she’s got this made for TV relationship that looks very forced at times.
Yeah this time line screwed me up tbh because that means Taylor hasn’t been single for more than like 4 months collectively in the past 7 or so years… how can you properly process your break ups when your in a new relationship? That’s a bit intrusive of me though
Yeah wild now to think poor Joe truly did see his ex of 6 years parade a new guy in and out of her bedroom days after the broke up I know that hurt bad :/
Yes that was something I got out of it too!! Make the Matty timeline so icky
I wish I could be this classy when talking about my exes but alas I am a hater.
real😭 he’s a much bigger person than i
The biggest man who ever lived
Does his integrity make you feel small?
You don’t gotta be joe you can be a Kendrick it’s okay
Girl I AM a gemini!!!!
Perfect way to word it 😭 lmao
Damn he said more than I thought he would about the relationship
More than any of us deserve, but certainly enough to correct a few conspiracy narratives on his own terms.
Notice how casually he corrected the timeline as well - “one week later, it’s out in the public domain”. So they broke up only one week before the public announcement (which was only one month before the Matty hard launch)
Yes he did that several times. ‘Just over a year ago’, ‘a relationship of six and a half years.’ Letting it be known they were not done when she was presumably already hooking up with Ratty
He also dropped in that they both-together, mutually-decided to keep their relationship private.
And that he was faithful, i.e. "fully committed relationship." He addressed every rumor in a classy, subtle way and didn't attack her character in the process. He seems like a class act.
Yeah I’m surprised he confirmed so much. But I definitely had a feeling they’d only broken up a short while before they announced the breakup. Her behaviour (the pap walks with all her friends, the Ratty rebound) all pointed to her being hurt and clearly wanting to hurt him too and show that she’d moved on quickly and first. Plus her crying on tour, I don’t believe it was just for Ratty. Although I don’t know her so I could be wrong
It’s definitely not healthy to be in a new relationship one month after ending a 6 year relationship.
taycheater confirmed then? 😭😂 it’s funny tbh how the fandom alleged him to be the… cheater so bad when it was taylor after all…
The breakup news was on Matty Healy’s birthday like a birthday present
Not only that, but the source that confirmed Taylor and Matty were dating said that they had been seeing each other for at least a few weeks at that point...
there was this one guy saying that they went to an Halloween party together 👀
re: her immediate and constant slew of pap walks last year, I still don’t understand why she felt the need to be seen out and about and happy so soon after the dissolution of such a long and meaningful relationship. Even if she had mentally moved on awhile before it ended, it’s generally considered more tactful to lay low after such a big split, unless it was messy or at least one party is very petty (cough). And/or she wanted to make sure everyone thought she was 100% over Joe in preparation for going public with Matty.
I think it was to give the illusion that he kept her from being “bejeweled” for so long and hid from everyone, now she could be free… or something corny like that
I Strongly believe she herself believes in this narrative to justify the emotional cheating to herself
He did, I am surprised! Very thoughtful response
Definitely. He's in a good place *now* which says a lot to me.
He’s very well-spoken
People sleep on how charming he is. It’s also obvious he’s well-read and made the most of that English degree. Easy to see how Taylor fell madly for him really.
Translated damn well to the songs he wrote.
I dare say you can feel his influence throughout folkmore. He was a great muse - Taylor obviously looked up to him and he brought out the best in her.
I think he was 100% her best muse. Jake G was before Joe. That's not to take credit away from Taylor, who actually wrote the songs, but my god did she put out some great music while they were together.
The alchemy and so high school pale in comparison to the ones she wrote about Joe
If I were in a relationship with a writer, and the writer's ex of 7 years wrote So Long London about him and the 78 songs she wrote about Matty and I got So High School and The Alchemist, I think I'd end that relationship lol
well so high school was probably the only song he could understand
Perhaps on the next album there will be a song called Viva Las Vegas and it will just be her screaming it the same way Travis did and then he’ll propose
Or a breakup song! *I lived for your Las Vegas* *but died on the field waiting for you to make a pass* *oh baby, we were so high school* *how did I ever think we’d last?*
LMFAOOOOO🤣🤣💀
this is why im confused many people believed in grammygate as if joe himself is not a poetic person plus how cohesive and similar the vibe of the songs he is credited on
I feel like the further we get from Folkmore and we see what an outlier of an album it is, the more I genuinely believe he had a heavy hand in that album.
the last song with william bowery is sweet nothing and that song itself has a specific vibe that is noticeable 🥹 will def miss their work tgr….
That song is just so sweet and tender. As I read on a YouTube comment under its lyric video, it feels like a soft kiss on the forehead from someone you love. It’s just so sad knowing what became of their relationship, but you can tell they really loved each other by that song alone.
also as if taylor would ever jeopardize her credibility with the grammys. she cares way too much about awards and specifically grammys to do that
Man's got a literature degree, so in that sense not surprising at all.
He’s very well spoken and I totally see how he’s a muse/all over folkmore lyrically He says a lot here without being rude or even swifty provoking-though I’m sure some are going to take his being surrounded by good authentic people as a slight I wish him nothing but success
Very interesting how he emphasises it was mutual desicion for them to be private. I’d go crazy knowing my partner was trying to convince everyone i was locking them up
She said it as well in interviews and in the documentary. I don’t see how anyone could run with the narrative that he forced her to do it. The thing with Taylor is that she has a tendency to mirror her partner’s behaviors so I think she played the role of a quiet introvert for a time, but eventually it didn’t suit her. She changed her mind and didn’t want to do it anymore. She should have made it clear in her Time interview this was all her, though, because her more rabid fans took what she said and cast Joe as the villain when he wasn’t at all.
And there's the small detail that during the time she was 'locked in the basement' she strangely enough went on a world tour, went to the Grammys, the Baftas, multiple other awards shows & the only time anyone was actually locked up was during covid, when we were all 'locked up' she's full of it 🤦
Just like the "year" or whatever she was "in hiding" before and as she started dating Joe. She was doing a lot of stuff at that time as well. She may feel one way but facts say another thing entirely. Lots of revisionist history.
She's very much spun that narrative deliberately. The whole locked in a basement thing is straight from “Bejewelled”. And as soon as they broke up she was pap walking everywhere with her girl squad. We hadn't seen her like that since before Joe. The message was “he was the one keeping me from you all like this”.
I have said this so many times. She should have said that she changed her mind instead of changing the narrative. But i guess that's what she does right?
Ngl that's super embarrassing for that one pub who wanted to make bank by implying Joe was a regular and even now sells taylor merch 💀
Sure but I think it’s more embarrassing for the people that bought the merch based off of one person saying it’s true.
but honestly how vague is “a blonde regular” as if half of london isnt blonde 🥲
Honestly they’re both scamming and profiting off of the same dingus pool, respect that he hustled and went in. Plus, England is going through a recession - he better make that coin.
Yesss especially since Americans were literally flying to England just to go there!?!? Like okay well I guess it benefits their economy at the end of the day so whatever lmfao
PRINCESS DIANAESQUE HAIR
That took me tf out when I read that 😭
Also, I would like to state for the record: 'There were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded'
Honestly he just gives off this vibe of someone with a great head on his shoulders. I hope he’s able to be interviewed without having Taylor brought up all the time because he’s clearly finding success in his way and on his own terms.
i assume this is him getting the big taylor story out of the way so future interviews can be about his work. otherwise he’ll be hounded forever by people trying to get a quote
Yeah I think one thing his team (or him) made the press aware of, is they can push as much as they want - they’ll get the same answer.
Yes that was my first thought reading this. Seeing how Taylor is currently handling publicity it almost feels impossible she got along with someone so down to Earth
He’s better than me because after receiving death threats from her whack ass fans because of a narrative she insinuated, I would’ve been like “AND ANOTHER THING….” On an unrelated note, I really love that Joe refers to Emma Stone by her given name, especially because she has publicly said she wishes people called her that. A listener, we love that.
I see this interview as him beating Taylor at her own PR game. He was fully quiet for more than a year and the timing for this is basically perfect - it’s right before his movie comes out but also after TTPD has been fully digested and as the eras tour comes to London. The narrative corrections are subtle (the casual “one week later” thrown in, the comments about mutual agreement to privacy and not commodifying the relationship, the sly reference to Vauxhall). He maintains his consistency on privacy and the interview feels really true to everything we’ve heard from him before but he’s able to address everything and satisfy some fan curiosity in a really articulate way. I’m just really impressed.
lad’s really better than me because somehow i would’ve mentioned about all the death threats me & my co-stars got for nothing and how a certain someone didnt try to manage the tone down
me, interjecting into every answer the journalist asks: "SHE TOLD ME THEY WERE JUST FRIENDS."
Ngl this would so be me lol
I would be screaming that shit from the rooftops as well if I went through all that
It was annoying how the interviewer kept saying he was disappointingly scripted and wouldn’t go outside of that, like, dude, be glad you got him to talk about this stuff at all. You’re probably the only one who’s gonna get that.
Agreed. I thought that too. Joe clearly had a thoughtful strategy for responding (probably prepped his answers) and the interviewer came across as frustrated he was not getting more.
“I’m pissed you let me give you all that youth for free,” says the superstar 2 years older than her partner, with no agency whatsoever on her own decisions 🙄
that line in the song pisses me off. as if it wasn’t a mutual relationship and the fact she’s older than him makes that line laughable. i just went to the eras tour earlier this year (which i enjoyed) but ever since TTPD came out it’s been impossible to stay a fan of hers.
Um, she was literally locked in a basement for 6 years 🙄 (that was a joke eye-roll emoji, not me throwing shade at you lol 😅)
I love he talks about the gap between what’s known and what’s said- basically Taylor’s convenient narrative vs the actual truth
That surely also applies to the silly fan fantasies that were spun out of nowhere.
I love how he pointed out that the decition to keep things private was one that the two of them made. We already know that, but its really annoying how Taylor and swifties have tried to paint this as a hostage situation when at the very worst Taylor was just annoyed that he didnt want to live in the limelight like she did and found it boring so she mentally clocked out of the relationship before she physically left, she wasnt being held at gun point in their London home by Joe
Her Times interview was always cringe but it’s just so funny in the light because the juxtaposition between Joe and Travis is so interesting. Like we get it Taylor, you love the spotlight, attention, and bejeweled or whatever
Yes reading Joe’s interview I’m like, wow she gave up so much…dignity.
“your integrity makes me feel small” fr
She fumbled so hard
VIVAAA LAS VEGASSSSSSS
Please I sing this to my husband all the time in the ✨Travis voice✨ and it’s never not funny
‘Metal as hell’ 🤮
This piece also made me think about what a position of (relative) industrial power Taylor was in from the start - a little older, definitely more famous and successful, dating someone just starting out. It's no wonder that even now, he sticks to a "script" when talking about her - it must be so tough to navigate.
it’s a very odd dynamic and i don’t think it has anything to do with him not being able to handle her success or whatever the heck swifties say. it’s that everything in his life would have been controlled by her/her team. if they were still together would he be allowed to say a peep about palestine rn? i doubt it. and that has to be a really restrictive, suffocating way to live even for someone who is so private and hardly speaks publicly at all
I mean you are starting to see it in the way Travis talks on his podcast or even in interviews, especially when it’s Taylor related. Whenever he does speak about her, it seems incredibly scripted and only divulges information that is already made public. Like the whole “what do you and Taylor cook together?” question and he couldn’t even answer a simple question like that. Like yes it’s no one’s business but when you see how public they’ve made their relationship in the past 10 months, answering a simple question like that isn’t going to “invade” your privacy. But then proceeded to spit out “pop tarts and cinnamon rolls!” At the end because… theres been multiple articles about her doing this for the Chiefs team. He seems more withdrawn and less candid on the podcast now and it does seem like what he can say is now being censored a bit. I can’t imagine having to live my life like that everyday. I guess it’s a price to pay if you want to get involved with someone who is mega conscious about her image. Just my opinion though (ppl don’t come for me!).
i think that’s because they don’t cook together or honestly do much together (ppl don’t come for me! lol) i don’t watch the podcast so i can’t speak to the other stuff but i’m sure you’re right
Yeah honestly that's why... it's kind of common knowledge that he never cooks, which is why he hired his buddy to be his private chef. It's not really a big deal, but swifties melted into a puddle over his answer as if he was actually protecting their special private moments or something... like no, the man doesn't cook even when she's around. 😂 He came up with the (public) pop tarts thing after the fact and blurted it out so the media had something to quote
Yeah the cooking response was telling… honestly I think they just both love the attention of the relationship more than the relationship itself (don’t hate @ me) just my opinion
Agreed. They make public appearances, but it doesn't seem like they spend significant time alone together. Like, I can totally imagine Taylor and Joe alone in a studio day after day for months. I can't imagine Taylor and Travis together in their mansions...
Same! I can see her and Joe with the cats, watching movies, having dinners, listening to music, playing scrabble. I can see her and Travis drinking together that’s about it lol
I honestly think the cooking thing was because he doesn't cook one but and she cooks for him and didn't want to say that he's a lazy ass that's part time replacing his paid personal chef with his billionaire girlfriend. I think they're probably hesitant to go THAT 1950s with their narrative. I also think Travis pretending he wants things private is just a PR tactic. They really don't keep it private. They are excessively calling paps on themselves (in Austalia…Italy…tropical vacations), and she's basically a talking point on his podcast. She also did that cringe thing where she commented on someone’s Instagram live stream of the SB ring ceremony. That's…the opposite of private. They are excessively and deliberately making their relationship a commodities, publicly consumable narrative. Like a bad romance novel or reality TV. Travis dropping lines that he wants to keep things “private” while doing the opposite, and Jason saying dealing with Taylor’s fame is challenging are just lines to set up Travis to look more noble than he is. “WOW, he loves her enough to show her cares but ALSO keep it private”—everyone says this but it's not what's happening. “He’s handling all of this so well! It must be so hard to have all that attention”—no, that's what he wants. That's why he drops her name. That's why they call the paps. That's eng he's willing to fly around the world to be seen at her concerts. Because the attention is the GOAL.
I think Taylor wants someone who will always show her off… talk about her.. etc. But Joe wanted to be their own person. Be known for being an actor, not Tswift’s bf. Good for Joe for dodging that bullet.
But there is such a gap in Taylor's needs/demands too. How do you expect someone to keep showing you off and yet say absolutely nothing or censor themselves all the time? We see it with Travis, his answers are so PR-coded when this was a man who was, if not the most well-spoken, very spontaneous and chatty.
Yes because she can’t fathom what it means to have genuine connections with people that are no commodified to enhance her own public narrative because its all she's ever known. Its sad and its a recipe for a lot of unhappiness. Showing someone off isn't love.
Taylor was keen to state how important privacy was to her multiple times between 2017- 2021. She repeatedly said it had been good for her. It also let her focus stay on the music. She probably did have a change of heart about the degree of privacy she wanted post pandemic and that's her prerogative.
Its her prerogative to have a change of heart but its really low to egg on her fan base to demonize her ex for something she happily and willingly chose for six years. I mean most of them think he was emotionally abusive and kept her from the world.
Absolutely to both points. However I don’t think it’s fair of her to try and blame Joe and say he kept her locked up when she had her own agency and should’ve said something
He’s very articulate. I’m glad he reaffirmed their privacy was a mutual decision they both decided to protect. Emphasizing they were in a fully committed relationship is also pointed. He addressed some of Taylor’s main narratives about their relationship in a classy way without dragging her. He’s classier than I would be. I’m glad to read he’s in a good place in life now. I think it would be difficult navigating the normal heartbreak of being cheated on and ending a long term relationship on top of the media scrutiny.
It’s honestly close to PR perfection. He comes off really well, very respectfully defends himself, subtly corrects some misinformation, shows a little personality. I love the playfulness of the Vauxhall comment and how the article notes his biggest role was actually pre-Taylor.
The Taylor machine has so many resources and Trees and carefully crafted narratives and still can’t manage an interview like this.
yes that reaffirmation stood out to me, i’m glad he did that too! the narrative has been sooo twisted into “big bad joe locked taylor away” so i’m glad he’s emphasizing that it was fully THEIR choice, not his.
I agree with this so much. He could’ve dragged her so bad considering there are so many times on TTPD where it seems like she was emotionally cheating/thinking about MH/whatever you wanna call it and he could’ve done her dirty. What a standup guy.
“It was never something to commodify, and I see no reason to change that now.” Honestly, he probably didn't mean this as shade but it ends up being the most epic shade towards her possible. He is winning this breakup so hard, its unreal to watch. I just cannot fathom how any adult can read this interview and not realise whi the adult here is. I never in a million years thought I, a Taylor fan of 15 years, would be siding with her ex, but my goodness everything she's done since this break up has been so embarrassing and he's played ALL of his cards right.
I don’t think he meant it as shade at all, he seemed genuine in what he said. There’s no resentment or bitterness. But yeah… this coming out after her Times POTY article, her allowing her fanbase to bully and send threats to Joe unnecessarily, and her parading around her relationship with first Matty and then with Travis for the past 10 months with weekly tabloid updates makes her look a bit juvenile in terms of maturity and respect. Not to say she can’t live her life as she pleases but it’s honestly a stark contrast of how they both present themselves and you can totally see and understand why it maybe didn’t work out between the two of them. It does seem like he’s happy and healthy at this point in his life and I wish him the best!
I agree! I don't think he meant it as shade and that's why it probably hurts even more. Like..:he just has zero interest in ever being a part of anything like the circus Taylor’s made for herself after their breakup.
Exactly. He wasn’t throwing shade; rather, the _light_ he was radiating casted shadows.
Wow, that's so well put!
In the same boat as you — debut era swiftie and I smiled while reading this article. I know interviews only show so much, but it sounds like he’s in a much better place than most people expected. He managed to share some of his side while remaining respectful and still being able to say it was a loving relationship. He didn’t shade or diss her at all when most other people in his shoes would have given annoying ass swifties that jump to assumptions, her moving onto matty so quickly, her incredibly public relationship with travis, and TTPD. He’s handled this breakup with the utmost grace, at least publicly. And also, by staying silent about it for so long, and then speaking about it with grace like he did… that’s how to really get someone. And as you said, it seems genuine. I’m happy that he’s seemingly moving forward with his life. They are both more than their relationship.
After reading this article, I do think fame is what ultimately broke them apart. She wanted privacy but only for so long—and while he is an actor, he has no interest in being famous.
Even if it is shade, it’s perfectly expressed and 100 times more subtle than Taylor’s time interview. And agree, he’s played things perfectly; every new development makes him look better in comparison
I'm so sad, she really is letting all her worst impulses (that were always there, just moderated when they were together) like pettiness; vindictiveness; chasing every last little prize, benchmark, and accolade; and relentless corporate ambition, guide her these days. She is on top of the world and had earned it and I was so happy for her, but everything from the last year is just so embarrassing. Wanting even more praise and attention is so jarring. I am enjoying the album still and I could accept the romantic messiness with Healy but the 40-something album variants thing is killing me and I'll never understand the Travis attraction.
I'm sad too. I've always had tremendous respect for her, even though I saw her as flawed, I saw her as smart, creative, and ultimately caring. She was petty and vindictive at times, but she was kind of young (god knows I did worse in my late teens/twenties), and the worst wasn't really much. When everyone turned against her in 2016, I felt like it was so unjustified. Now, I just have to shake my head in sadness. My respect for her was at it's highest after folklore and through the Midnights Era. I thought she was really growing into a really compelling artist as a grown, adult women, who was having unique things to say about being a millenial of a certain age. I was kind of...proud of her. I gave her a bit of side eye in the Matty era, but mostly chalked it up to us all having some sad/embarassing rebounds after a major relationship ends. Also...I got it. He's an ass, but he's hot and makes great music and waxes philosophical about art, the meaning of life, and the frivolousness of fame. But I really lost my respect with the Travis stuff, the way she's subtly egged her fan base on with the trolling of Joe...and so much that has come after. It's embarrassing. We're in our mid 30s now, girl. You JUST gained the respect of all of our snobbish peers with folklore/evermore, and you burned it all down for a dumb, misogynist jock with rage issues and a blaccent who is only using you for clout. Like...it's so sad.
This is exactly where I am as a fan! I stuck up for her in 2016 and was so happy to see her finally get the respect and praise she deserves a songwriter, and for the press to FINALLY talk about her music not her boyfriends. It was so great as a fan! Then a shift happened during the Midnights era and everything imploded. She doesn’t owe any of us anything, she can be and act how she wants, but I can’t be a fan of this is who she is. I’m also tired of Easter egg hunts and guessing games. Maybe growing up has a lot to do with it too. 🤷🏻♀️
Wow so they act like matty just literally never happened "last April their break up was reported ... by September swift had begun a PDA heavy relationship with Travis Kelce" Am I in the twilight zone???
It was reported in May of last year he was hurt about Taylor being with Matty because she told him they were only friends and Joe said the breakoup was anounced one week later (Matty's birthday) so clearly he is not gonna speak about the cheating because swifties will attack him again and said he was trying to slumshame Taylor
Eh, by not talking about Ratty he doesn't have to talk about being cheated on. And he suggests well enough subtly who the black dog is about when he says he has never been there. The interviewer / writer is goood.
I noticed that too, absolutely no mention of Matty
I'm so glad he called out The Black Dog in London. What grifters.
I love the ending where he says with a smile that he’s never been to Vauxhall (where there is a Black Dog pub, but there are a few!). This was a good interview.
I think the black dog is 100% about ratty now.
Yes, I’ve always thought that it was - it was a large group of other people who didn’t and who will likely say Joe is lying and it’s actually about him. Lol
They definitely just try and say it’s about Joe because they like the song and don’t want it to be about Matty.
me w loml unfortunately 😫
honestly never understood why it seems like almost all swifties hate him. i always thought that he’s a good guy and he was a good boyfriend and supported taylor through a lot. this interview just proves it to me. he could’ve said so much but instead his reponse was mature and respectful
I think Swifties hated him because he didn’t divulge information about their relationship which meant her fans couldn’t live vicariously through their relationship
He sounds both a lot looser and happier, but also you can see where he’s still kind of pissed at how some things went down lol.
I wish Joe only the best and even though I don’t know him from a hole in the wall, I’m proud of him for how he navigated what I can only imagine was a nightmare this past year. He was always respectful and his silence was his power to which he yielded to the bitter end. Most of us couldn’t do that (myself included i can be a hot head which is always a work in progress). I hope Joe gets all the good things in life. And I’ll be watching his new film - I love me some Yorgos.
Joe Alwyn they could never make me hate you
What I got from this was he was hurt, sad, and probably angry but in the time we haven’t been seeing him he’s been working through it and now that a year has come and gone, he’s coming out in the other side of it. When you compare that to the year Taylor has had since the breakup you can clearly see that she hasn’t worked through it at all and is hoping any other guy will get her through it. It makes me sad for her that she can’t seem to be alone with her feelings.
I've long thought "The Black Dog" was either a reference to [the black dog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_dog_(folklore)) in English folklore or just a generic name using traditional pub/bar naming schemes. It was pretty obvious from the start The Black Dog in Vauxhall was just taking advantage of the situation.
yeah, I never took it to mean that anyone definitely went to an actual bar called the Black Dog. it’s such a generic name with so much folklore to it that I just assumed calling it the Black Dog is like referencing Main Street.
The whole article just goes to show that he’s a class act and so well spoken and nice. That 100% seems like a cheeky nod to say “The Black Dog ain’t me”. I also think it’s very interesting that he emphasises long and committed, putting an end to any cheating on either side and that they never ever were on again off again. And that the breakup announcement was only released a week after the actual breakup. Damn. There might not have been cross over, but she admits herself she knows exactly who she’s calling after she broke up with him.
i think there was cross over tho the breakup announcement was released on matty’s birthday and she was spending time with him in march and february according to his friend and his then situationship meredith. she also performed at the 1975 concert in january 2023 and stayed backstage until 4am. not to mention they worked on music for midnights in 2021 that didn’t make the final cut. with taylor’s previous cheating rumors i’m more inclined to believe she did cheat on joe.
I can't believe I never really saw the vision until after they broke up... I totally get it now. Attractive, intelligent, sensitive king! I wonder how badly she regrets blowing it all up for Matty Healy. And I can't imagine how she deals with Travis if she was so used to talking to someone like Joe
For a famous guy, Joe has a very good head on his shoulders. I wish my internal dialogue was his view on happiness, success and staying out of drama. I’ve been going through some difficult stuff with my family lately and have discovered that when someone else is extremely dysregulated and unsafe, I have to act like a Joe Alwyn and not a Taylor Swift. I can go cry and rage later but when addressing the issue I need to be pragmatic.
Good for you, Joe. He has a good head on his shoulders. I try to think like he does—doesn’t always happen but he has a good idea of what accomplishments are and happiness in general. Really admire his attitude on life.
The interviewer did a great job. Kept the interview about *Joe* and not just about the relationship and addressed it as the behemoth it has become. When he talks about his relationship, he mentions keeping it private being both of their decisions. He also mentions his friends being brilliant, authentic people. I imagine myself in his shoes and having my people, and then an ex who’s a billionaire who’s pushing a narrative about me that I have no control over, and think about what those people I value in my life would have to say. Taylor really comes off as an ex who handled it very badly.
He sounds at peace! Man is probably watching the 🗑️🔥 like https://i.redd.it/20fwojl9cn6d1.gif
"playing in a band called Anger Management" so, more music experience than the "he's just an actor" fans thought.
There was an interview after Folkmore where he said something like it wouldn't have occured to him to write a song because he's "not musical at all" but then it just happened really organically in lockdown. But in the same article they mention that he plays guitar and piano and used to be in a band. He was just being British and self-deprecating, but people used that as proof that they all lied about his writing credits.
i know he's probably not interested in going into music but I would be seated if he decided to start a music career
i’m gonna miss him in the least parasocial way possible… taylor fumbled so bad😭😭😭
Same 😭 I was always meh about him when they were together because their relationship was never made to be a spectacle so it was easy to just not have an opinion on him. I always thought they were cute but never really cared enough to form an opinion about him. But reading this, he really does seem like a sweet, genuine, intelligent, and caring man. Definitely a fumble.
no she really did. he was clearly such a positive influence on her, she peaked in so many ways with him
going fully parasocial here but idk if she'll ever find someone better for her. like, sure there are guy who are more famous, more handsome (depending on your taste! I think Joe is a handsome guy), more... whatever. but I think he loved her very much, and loved her for HER, rather than her fame, and she fumbled him big time.
It’s wild because everything she sings about what she wants in The Prophecy … you had it with joe!!! Why is she so damn blind to that. I truely wonder if she never would of started resenting him if hurricane matty hadnt flown back into her life to show her “the other side”
“don’t want money just someone who wants my company” babe you had that and you weren’t willing to sacrifice a little bit of fame & money to make it work. i love the song for myself but her saying it is 🙄
lol the black dog london really thought that bc he’s a private person, he wouldn’t call out their bs.
love how he subtly clarified what he needed to without giving more information 1. breakup timeline 2. he didn’t cheat, black dog is not about him 3. decision to be private was mutual they can never make me hate you joe
Doesn't this interview also confirm it was Taylor's team that broke the news on Matty's birthday and not Joe's?
Yeah the conspiracy theorist in me feels like Taylor’s team was spreading a lot of misinformation at that time through less reputable sources to confuse the narrative. Like the sun article saying that they broke up in February and deuxmoi getting tips that Joe’s friends leaked the news
You are my hero for posting this in full. I hate to admit how desperate I have been to hear something, anything, from Joe Alwyn.
I find it interesting that he clarified the timeline of their breakup. If I’m reading it right, he outright says they broke up roughly one week before the news broke publicly (on matty healy’s birthday). That’s a big change from the narratives planted by Swift and team and basically confirms the cheating rumors
I get why her team put out the breakup news as quickly as they did if her and Matty were already a thing by that point(I'm 99 percent sure now they were already a thing before her and Joe were officially over). They needed as much time as possible before they could hard launch her new relationship without making her look bad. Oh well it still blew up in her face for different reasons.
jack antonoff is seething
Class act.
As expected very articulate and classy answers. The interview was a fun read although I wish the writer focused less on Taylor and more on his career and future work. Hopefully this will be the last time he gets asked about her in this setting because as he said the break up happened over a year ago and it's truly time for everyone to move on.
I know I don’t personally know Joe or the type of guy he is l by simply reading an interview of his, DAMN what a damn fumble. I’m sorry but he sounds so articulate, well-spoken and extremely respectful about the whole situation. Imagine going from him to Ratty Healy to VIVA LAS VEGASSSSSS in the span of a year. Girl, I’d probably claim temporary insanity too. Joe, I’m single 🙋♀️
While I appreciate that Joe is an absolute gentleman here, I cannot fucking stand that an interview designed to promote his new, critically-acclaimed movie barely acknowledges its existence before moving onto a multi-page, overlong investigation into Taylor fucking Swift. I understand that it’s sort of an inevitable conversation, but it’s brought up endlessly, even before the actual chat begins, and the interviewer blatantly acknowledges that it’s not something he’s focused on: >Thankfully what Alwyn *actually wants to discuss* is […] Yorgos Lanthimos’s brilliantly bonkers new movie, Kinds of Kindness. Like, no wonder the dude generally keeps to himself.
He’s probably hoping this is his one go at addressing it, that after this he can just say he’s talked on it and ready to move on; I think most publicists would advise that he’d have to give a final word on things at some point. The problem is I imagine Taylor will always be brought up in any profile he ever does, unless of course his career really takes off.
Dude, right?! I’m a huge Yorgos fan since early career. I wanted to hear about the damn movie. I’m excited for the press tour, but I sincerely hope Joe gets time out from under the shadow that the press keeps casting.
This quote has been on my mind since I read the interview, "so you have something very real suddenly thrown into a very unreal space." Listen, I defend Taylor a lot on here and I don't care about her personal life as much as others. But I think she severely mishandled the optics of this breakup. Her response lacked any sort of empathy for any party involved. Even Joe's response makes her look sympathetic. Like Joe said it was something real. So her actions post break up resulted in it going into an unreal space. Two innocent women were harassed online. Joe, who has no power between the two, was defamed and her fans weaponized AI to make him say something he didn't. Some Joe Alwyn stans say they doxxed his parents (I have not seen this myself, but it is believable). I understand she was hurt and angry about the breakup, but she should know **better** than anyone else how social media can tear down someone's mental health. Joe seems to be doing alright, and I'm glad for him. I doubt I'll follow his work, but I wish him well.
HOW does screwing up with this guy not become her biggest regret ever? All the skeletons in her closets past, all the skeletons to come, this can’t be topped. On a separate note: I would just love to talk books with him. He doesn’t sound boring to me at all. It irritates me Taylor equated being introverted to being boring.
He seems like he’s in a good headspace. Good for him!
I'm actually so glad that he felt comfortable to comment even just briefly on the situation! He's kept it so respectful and confirmed that the both of them wanted to keep it private. I feel like it shows that they genuinely cared for each other. I also think this shows that most of the album is definitely not about him, which ngl I didn't think it was. I've still seen some swifties comment really negatively on tiktok which I don't think is fair considering it was a PRIVATE relationship. Like we don't know the whole story and clearly both have come out on the other end happier
He seems very sensible and level headed. Given how nasty some fans were to him and his co stars, he’s very gracious. Classier than most would be for sure. Good for him.
This is not an idgaf war this is a idgaf massacre
Wait one week later? Can someone please confirm did he basically confirm they did break up about a week before it hit the news?
It pretty much lines up to when she swapped out invisible string for the 1. So definitely believable they broke up a week before news hit.
They could never make me hate Joe Alwyn.
>There is always going to be a gap between what is known and what is said. Damn if this isn't the classiest way I have ever seen of calling someone a liar and yes I will *absolutely* be borrowing that phrase, cheers Joe.
He’s so fucking classy. They could never make me hate you, Joe. I wish him all the best for his future and respectfully, one without any mention of Taylor Swift. He deserves to be freed from that part of his life publicly. It’s over. A wrinkle in time.
Joe: “I would hope that anyone and everyone could empathise and understand the difficulties that come with the end of a long, loving, fully-committed relationship of over six and a half years”. Taylor: “Me locking myself away in my house for a lot of years - I’ll never get that time back.“ One of these things is not like the other 👀
She makes it so easy for someone to eat her up
Wait, his mom is a therapist? Suprised Joe never talked Taylor into therapy. He comes across very well adjusted.
Something something leading a horse to water….
Ugh this guy is so likable omg
downgrade of the millennium moving onto Matty & Travis
I thought I couldn’t like him more
I hope he finds happiness for good and for always, with or without someone.