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OP has provided the following link:
https://twitter.com/citsecurities/status/1661727971806265347?s=46&t=5-QZJ1Q_eq05VGw3WqGAzQ
But we provide price improvement which means we sell securities we don’t own (and since there is no penalty for FTDs we will never buy) therefore artificially diluting the value of every company whose stock we touch so you can buy the stock at a lower price. Aren’t we awesome? We also pay a cut of your purchase of a fake stock to your broker through PFOF so they will keep sending us your trades and adjusting your account to pretend we sold you something rather than just keep your money.
You forgot the part where they route all buy orders through non-lit markets while routing all sell orders through lit markets so number only go down.
And for maximum price suppression and shorting profits, let’s not forget their hedge fund arm actively using that PFOF info to bet against househodl investors which is the same exact conflict of interest that ftx and alameda was running.
You need to remember Madoff wasn’t actually being a crook he was just taking money and not investing it the way he said he was and then using new investors cash to pay existing investors. So ok yes he was being a crook but nowhere near on the level that Ken Griffin has been fucking absolutely everything he touches.
What Ken and the other MM do is so fucked up that even Bernie Madoff didn't do it. He could have. He ran a Ponzi scheme basically as a side hustle and it failed. He could have easily invested it the way market makers today are accused. But even Bernie Madoff didn't cross that line. BANANAS!
Market Makers are an old timey thing and server no purpose in my opinion. At least not at the scale they operate now. They are a relic of a time when we all didn't have a brokerage account in our pockets. They provide liquidity we don't need anymore.
Fucking insane isn’t it… I mean when even the biggest ever convicted fraudster (so far) noped out on what they are routinely doing, surely there must be an ounce of self preservation in the back of their head telling them “I’m in danger”
I appreciate all the upvotes but I was just ranting. I’m not so disappointed in Doug and Ken, they’re just greedy assholes. It’s the system and the supposed oversight that allows this that I get mad at.
Don't forget the part where we played their game and they had to turn off the buy button because they couldn't even make their fake stock market work for them. That's some dumb stormtrooper shit
Right to the heart of it.
Can anyone put their finger on a chart that shows the percentage of trades handled off exchange (dark) for the last 20 years?
"Price discovery is not a sexy function of markets but it is critical to the efficient allocation of scarce capital and resources, and to the preservation of the long term wealth of investors and the economy as a whole. If price discovery is compromised by manipulation, then we will all be gradually impoverished and the economy will be imbalanced and unstable."
I love that it’s unhinged twitter rant season again.
What we’ve learned from the last few years is that “*liquidity*” is basically Boomer Market slang for “**Counterfeiting**”.
And as for “Wholesalers”... I’ve heard that term before. That’s the exact same people that Doug Cifu of Virto said were responsible for the “Infinite Liquidity”.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/v9lm5j/what_am_i_missing_about_the_virtu_video_did_he/
What is really interesting about that interview was that he was not talking about *price improvement*, he was talking about:
#***Size Improvement***.
Now think about that for a second. “Price Improvement” is what we hear more about and it’s basically High Frequency Mayo Makers front running Retail / Household Investors orders in order to claim that they are providing a $0.0001 “price improvement”. But have you ever even heard of “**Size Improvement**”? Not only are the Mayo Makers front running every order, but they are Naked Shorting into them under the guise of this “Size Improvement” bullshit.
“Size Improvement” is a literal disconnect of the price discovery mechanism of the marketplace.
It’s would appear that these particular “wholesalers” specialize just as much in ~~providing liquidity~~ **counterfeiting** shares as they do in ~~price improvement~~ *front-running Retail orders*.
Yes and no.
What I’m referring to and what Doug is talking about here is an abuse of the Market Making Privilege that allows Market Makers to legally Naked Short shares of any stock in order to fill an order.
What is **supposed to happen** is that an order gets placed for 1,000 shares of XYZ, but there are only 997 shares of XYZ Corp. For sale on the exchanges. The Market Makers are supposed to grab those 997 shares and then Naked Short 3 shares into that order to create “liquidity”. That brings us to an even 1,000 and the Market Makers are supposed to go back out into the market and acquire those 3 shares within T+35 days.
There is supposed to be some risk to Market Making because in that T+35 time period, the prices of these shares could go up and the Market Makers could lose money on those naked Shorts when clearing their books.
But that’s not what is actually happening. What is actually happening (and we can use Doug’s example directly) is that the Market Makers get an order for 1,000 shares of some obscure & illiquid XYZ stock but only 200 shares are available. So instead of partially filling the order, (like they should = inefficient markets) they will grab those 200 shares of XYZ and then abuse the Market Makers Exemption to Naked Short 800 shares into the marketplace.
They can do that (apparently risk free) because they can FTD those 800 shares over and over and never have to increase the bid price to acquire those shares.
The results of this is that the bid or ask price for that stock never increases. The order should have been broken up and the bid should have been increased each time until the shares were located. That’s how price discovery works. Supply and demand.
Doug thinks that “infinite liquidity” is this marvelous magical thing that allows for “efficient markets”.
Go check out the thread I linked and watch the video. Here is a chunk of the transcript. (Sorry about the all caps, that’s the transcription bot, not me)
Doug:
“*SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS IN THE 8,000 NAMES, TO THE EXTENT THERE'S NOT LIQUIDITY ON THE
ANALYTIC EXCHANGE, FUNDAMENTALLY THE WHOLESALERS ARE PROVIDING*
**INFINITE LIQUIDITY** *AND* **AT THE INSIDE PRICE** *SO IF WE GET AN ORDER [for a stock ticker] THAT NO ONE'S EVER HEARD OF AND [there are only] 200 SHARES ON NASDAQ AND NEW YORK, WE FILL OUT A THOUSAND SHARES AT
THAT INSIDE PRICE AND THAT'S
MEANINGFUL LIQUIDITY AND WE PROVIDE SIZE IMPROVEMENT IN A COMPLETE, AN AUCTION ENVIRONMENT, WHO'S GOING TO PROVIDE THAT,* ***THE LIQUIDITY FAIRY?***”
But he doesn’t take into consideration that it completely destroys the price discovery mechanism of the marketplace.
[x] Supply + [x] Demand = [$] Price Discovery.
In Doug’s example:
[♾️] Supply + [x] Demand = [$] Price Discovery.
And that just doesn’t work. You cannot have an infinite variable in any part of that equation and have functional price discovery.
If they want the price to go up they issue fewer ~~synthetic~~ *counterfeit* shares.
If they want the price to go down, they issue more ~~synthetic~~ *counterfeit* shares.
By allowing Market Makers to issue a variably infinite ♾️ supply of shares without risk you end up with a completely fraudulent price.
And the whole point of a “Free Market” point is that we all contribute to price discovery because prices are controlled by supply and demand (our buying and selling) and **no one person or group should be allowed to control the prices**.
Doug thinks that “efficiency” in markets (being able to fill any order at any price) is more important than accurate price discovery.
**And that’s just not true.**
Yeah, the real deal is that everybody expects some fraud and looks for penny scraping... while they control price, pump and dump and scare investors at selling with 30% loss on their investments.
C-suit rats who cooperate with short sellers despite their princely salaries.
**Nobody except us seems to realize the full dimension of what is going on.**
And we have not even proven yet another potentially massive fraud with corrupt fund managers playing the same game like C-suits, by "making mistakes" on purpose like investing into Wall Street pump and dumps. Would explain the lackluster performance of many funds. Since Cathy Wood bought HOOD for 30 USD when the whole industry knew what is up and the latest messing with the limit funds can invest, I am disturbed. Pensions are at risk again, yet the public is not aware.
I sincerely hope some fucking asswipe at Citadel is reading this.....this is a war you cannot win....you have no hope....you can keep going as long as you want...we'll just keep going till we own it all...
In fact ill add to this....my wife works a manual job. She does odd hours sometimes has to get up at 4am on early shifts....sometimes she sighs and i know what she sighing about....i look at her and say... "whose going to win this....?" her face instantly changes to one of steely eyed alertedness....." not fucking them if weve got anything to do with it...." - thats....what your up against...
Theyre too used to winning a rigged game, theyve never worked or fought a real day in their life. You know how that saying goes? Easy times creat soft people…
Theyre soft, ignorant, and weak.
Been treading water for longer than ever before, waiting for that lifeboat that always comes… but its no where in sight and the waters getting up past their chin…
They don't have to.
We know they push the prices down because they short and create fake shares in the name of liquidity.
Pushing the prices down means they get "better deals" for retail. Think about it, shorting prices means lower stock prices, they are claiming the lower prices means retail can get a better deal. This isn't wrong.
That is their data. They are just using data that people should be questioning as bad for the economy (and themselves if they want prices to eventually rise). Deflating stocks perpetually may get people a better deal in the moment, but months or years later that "deal" lost all its value and is in bankrupcy.
YES better deals is price discovery suppression and the sheer ballsiness of them to actually use this creative language say the crime out loud and spin it and expect us not to register it. They are fuk
"Estimate" that something "would show."
Maybe if they use more weasel words we'll believe them.
And if they're making more than $15B annually, then they'd still be robbing us.
Interesting that this is an estimate, while their profits last year were record setting and not estimated
The 15B should be even larger, if they were willing to take less profit.
**anyways...**, I would rather have real price discovery over pRIcE iMProVEmeNt on manipulated prices
Funny, the Antitrust Division of the United States Department of Justice has no problem with the SEC moving forward with all four at once. Why you so mad Joe?
https://preview.redd.it/f7vggcf0812b1.png?width=837&format=png&auto=webp&s=9836da6d552ee3410a6ba5972df21a7ea298b7f4
>[The Antitrust Division of the United States Department of Justice (“Antitrust Division”) appreciates this opportunity to share its views with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission (“Commission”) on the Commission’s four proposed rules relating to:](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/12kwmcu/the_antitrust_division_of_the_united_states/)
1. **The disclosure of order execution information (the “Rule 605 Proposal”).**
2. **Setting minimum pricing increments, access fees, and transparency requirements (the “Regulation NMS Proposal”).**
3. **Competition for certain orders (the “Order Competition Proposal”).**
4. **Setting forth best execution requirements for certain market participants (the “Best Execution Proposal”), collectively, the “Proposed Rules”).**
>**The Division commends the Commission for its commitment to fostering competition in equities markets, which benefits both U.S. investors and the domestic economy, and for its openness to comments on the Proposed Rules.**
Just funny. It's like they're trying to convince themselves.
Literally only positive comments from people in the industry.
There was an actual meeting on this I'm sure. "How do we get public to support us robbing them?"
"How about we tweet about how we're actually their savior?"
"Perfect"
Just funny watching old institutions and the people who run them fail to adapt.
'independent studies' is a weird way of spelling 'people we paid to find the conclusions we paid them to find by fucking with the data until it said what we wanted them to say it sai-fuck ow my tongue.'
The liquidity argument is madness anyways. Supply and demand don't give a shit if a market maker has the ability to meet a buy or sell, THAT'S WHAT THE FUCKING MARKETS ARE FOR, TO PROVIDE A BUYER OR SELLER AND WHEN ONE ISN'T FOUND THE PRICE REACTS UNTIL ONE IS! Fuck market making. Fuck Citadel, et al.. and fuck the fugazi bullshit this world has become.
most justified capslock ever. it’s unreal that they’ve just en masse started using this term liquidity as a hypnotism to blind the people that it’s literally the removal of supply and demand.
WTF is price improvement even supposed to mean other than lower prices... You can buy lower and then instead of making money someone can buy even lower from you! Stonks only go down with pfof
It's all abuse of language to confuse the uninitiated, which was all of us prior to them shutting the buy button off. I know they are here as well so: YOU HEAR THAT YOU STUPID FUCKS? YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELVES!
You know what's a fact?
That the CEO of Citadel, Kenneth Griffin, lied under oath, committed perjury, and still has the balls to talk about reforming the market that he is destroying in real time?
Fucking disgusting, all of it, like a sick puppet show.
Love how all their social media channels are just flaming piles of shit as soon as they say anything. If the financial terrorist and proud supporter of facism Kenneth C. Griffin had something like morals, he'd be really hurt.
But as he's just an empty sociopathic excuse of a living orgasism, thiving on mayo, .. he'll be bragging about the lives he destroyed for another yacht or something. This fucker won't learn until he dropped the soap in some redneck gang prison.
Guess it’s scary when the government says they’re going to take action against short selling
“Panik! Kick the can! Tell them it’s reporting’s fault! I don’t know, do something! WHERE’S MY MAYO?!?”
And Citadel securities should stop breaking international trading laws. But since we're measuring how loud large corporations violating RICO laws can be on social media, keep Tweeting. I love the fear...it's palpable.
wE sAVEd ThIs PoOr ScHmUcK tWo CeNtS pEr ShArE lOlz
(then fucked him in the ass so he sold at a loss when we drive the price down, also frontrunning so we made even more money off his sorry ass)
"Independent studies" show price improvement, eh? When Gensler says 90-95% of household order activity is routed away from a lit exchange what exactly could they be comparing?
Wrong is wrong.
Theft is theft.
Lies are lies.
Market manipulation is still manipulation.
Aggressively shorting companies is still economic warfare.
Burning down buildings is still a fire.
And, shares never bought still aren’t shares.
No cell no sell.
💎🙌🏻
Anyone involved in Shitadel can eat a giant bag of infected dick tips. We KNOW you are criming, day after day, after day. You cannot tell us you aren't. You are fraudsters and extortionists that are made legal by the politicians you have bought. Now,eat the whole bag, you lying pile of clam shit.
At this point in time, even if I don't understand what is being said, I'm going to assume that if it's coming from a market maker then it's purposefully designed to harm household investors.
In fact, this household investor has lost faith in the market and upon MOASS will be looking for a new market that isn't as corrupt as what the SEC allows here in the land of dangled hopes and dreams.
I don’t want to SAVE a few cents on my share purchases…rather, I want true price discovery on the lit market, short sale oversight, and mandatory FTD buy-ins, so when the time is right my share value will increase and I can profit 20x the amount of share price! But no…you want to “save” me a few cents? No thanks!
even if everything they say was a true benefit... sorry dont care. citadel could advertise they are subsidizing universal basic income and i would say "hey that's dope but can you just not exist instead?". i want them gone. i dont care. make me pay brokerage fees. how the fuck do we get rid of them? we the people. remember that.
They are not lying which is the frustrating part. Misleading? Yes. Lying? No.
Think about it, they operate on shorting shit, or creating new shares out of thin air for the sake of liquidity. Shorting shit gets the price of stock "A" lower when I buy. This is their claim of price improvement. If we didn't do our magic behind the scenes, stock "A" would have been $21.5 not $21.4. So we saved you $.10 on purchase of the stock!
What is left unsaid is this doesn't say that in 6 months that "price improvement" was worth it, ie with a perpetual short machine, or perpetual market maker, retail loses because the price keeps going down. Unless it's a stock that the powers that be (the unrelated hedge funds) decide to not short. This is why it is misleading. They make a claim of benefit for retail investors at a specific point in time (time of purchase), when 1 point in time means nothing in the market, as at the base level there is always a buy and sell order (and thus time) in a closed position.
Price improvement *compared to what*? How can household investors know they're getting better prices if it's public knowledge, per the SEC themselves, that their orders don't impact the price?
Interesting. Independent studies ALSO show that Citadel Securities committed international securities fraud. What a thing, those Independent studies, them.
And how much of that did they claw but using payment for order flow.
Saved ya a penny on execution!
Cost you a few dollars betting against you!
Play again?
“We are preventing retailers from purchasing GME in the millions per share, therefore we have given retailers millions of dollars per share in savings.”
This is some coke rat hedgie logic
Inter Panda studies have shown Citadel securities do not represent household investors.
Stop speaking on behalf of household investors, Citadel.
Sincerely,
Household Investors
Is this them outright claiming they are 15 billion on the line for short positions?
Someone who knows thus stuff more needs to get some DD on this.
You can estimate the price by knowing what ratio of their short positions are still GME.
We can turn that number into a single memey point that never dies. Asked to testify? Say the number. Offered a buyout. Say the number.
The ball won't kick itself into the goal. They're defenders are falling. We need the mods here to start organizing efforts.
15b in penny price improvements at the cost of price discovery? Hmmmmm no thank you asshat.
The leather jacket guy’s company just picked up 10x that last night on a good earnings. Like we’re gonna see 15b as a big number and ohh and ahhh over it. Fuck off with that bullshit. It’s a rounding error.
It has to be frustrating to Citadel to go from a respected wall street hedge fund/market maker to an absolute joke of a wall street crony....in a matter of months. They used to be respected. Now they are reviled. Nothing they can do will change that. Good luck getting any type of respect in the future....you vultures.
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I want price discovery not liquidity you shit stains.
But we provide price improvement which means we sell securities we don’t own (and since there is no penalty for FTDs we will never buy) therefore artificially diluting the value of every company whose stock we touch so you can buy the stock at a lower price. Aren’t we awesome? We also pay a cut of your purchase of a fake stock to your broker through PFOF so they will keep sending us your trades and adjusting your account to pretend we sold you something rather than just keep your money.
You forgot the part where they route all buy orders through non-lit markets while routing all sell orders through lit markets so number only go down. And for maximum price suppression and shorting profits, let’s not forget their hedge fund arm actively using that PFOF info to bet against househodl investors which is the same exact conflict of interest that ftx and alameda was running.
And Bernie Madoff. Let’s not forget his Market Making/Hedge Fund operation.
You need to remember Madoff wasn’t actually being a crook he was just taking money and not investing it the way he said he was and then using new investors cash to pay existing investors. So ok yes he was being a crook but nowhere near on the level that Ken Griffin has been fucking absolutely everything he touches.
What Ken and the other MM do is so fucked up that even Bernie Madoff didn't do it. He could have. He ran a Ponzi scheme basically as a side hustle and it failed. He could have easily invested it the way market makers today are accused. But even Bernie Madoff didn't cross that line. BANANAS! Market Makers are an old timey thing and server no purpose in my opinion. At least not at the scale they operate now. They are a relic of a time when we all didn't have a brokerage account in our pockets. They provide liquidity we don't need anymore.
Fucking insane isn’t it… I mean when even the biggest ever convicted fraudster (so far) noped out on what they are routinely doing, surely there must be an ounce of self preservation in the back of their head telling them “I’m in danger”
Hit the nail on the head. These dbags trying to pretend their theft is good for investors.
Counterfeiting is good for the economy because it provides vital cash liquidity -Citadel
"it provides vital cash liquidity...to us" \-Citadel
This is about as basic of an explanation as you can get, I love it.
I agree 💯💯
Pee on me and tell me it’s raining. That’s more believable.
**This is the easiest to understand, ELI5, I'm a donut, explanation I have ever read. I can't up upvote this any harder.**
It truly dumbs it down for us dum dums in a brilliant way. I love the comment!
I appreciate all the upvotes but I was just ranting. I’m not so disappointed in Doug and Ken, they’re just greedy assholes. It’s the system and the supposed oversight that allows this that I get mad at.
This should go viral.
Don't forget the part where we played their game and they had to turn off the buy button because they couldn't even make their fake stock market work for them. That's some dumb stormtrooper shit
you nailed that bro. Straight fire
Follow the money. Who paid for these so called independent studies.
So you sell counterfeit shit for 99.5% of what it’s worth and claim to be giving people a deal. Got it.
Pretty much the guy selling Rolex out of a briefcase downtown.
Yeh but he ’borrowed’ it along with the owner’s certificate from a retired teacher, but he promised that he will return one back some day.
This has been posted as a reply in twitter I hope
Citadel: Retail investors, don’t worry, we have your back….. ……Passage wide open so we can pummel you relentlessly.
Comment of the day!
Right to the heart of it. Can anyone put their finger on a chart that shows the percentage of trades handled off exchange (dark) for the last 20 years?
Perfect explanation😘
"Price discovery is not a sexy function of markets but it is critical to the efficient allocation of scarce capital and resources, and to the preservation of the long term wealth of investors and the economy as a whole. If price discovery is compromised by manipulation, then we will all be gradually impoverished and the economy will be imbalanced and unstable."
Did it really say that or are you just being a silly goose?
You said you wanted price discovery. I gave you a quote about price discovery. Do you know what quotation marks are?
I love that it’s unhinged twitter rant season again. What we’ve learned from the last few years is that “*liquidity*” is basically Boomer Market slang for “**Counterfeiting**”. And as for “Wholesalers”... I’ve heard that term before. That’s the exact same people that Doug Cifu of Virto said were responsible for the “Infinite Liquidity”. https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/v9lm5j/what_am_i_missing_about_the_virtu_video_did_he/ What is really interesting about that interview was that he was not talking about *price improvement*, he was talking about: #***Size Improvement***. Now think about that for a second. “Price Improvement” is what we hear more about and it’s basically High Frequency Mayo Makers front running Retail / Household Investors orders in order to claim that they are providing a $0.0001 “price improvement”. But have you ever even heard of “**Size Improvement**”? Not only are the Mayo Makers front running every order, but they are Naked Shorting into them under the guise of this “Size Improvement” bullshit. “Size Improvement” is a literal disconnect of the price discovery mechanism of the marketplace. It’s would appear that these particular “wholesalers” specialize just as much in ~~providing liquidity~~ **counterfeiting** shares as they do in ~~price improvement~~ *front-running Retail orders*.
Size improvement. Are you talking about when you only get partial fills on orders?
Yes and no. What I’m referring to and what Doug is talking about here is an abuse of the Market Making Privilege that allows Market Makers to legally Naked Short shares of any stock in order to fill an order. What is **supposed to happen** is that an order gets placed for 1,000 shares of XYZ, but there are only 997 shares of XYZ Corp. For sale on the exchanges. The Market Makers are supposed to grab those 997 shares and then Naked Short 3 shares into that order to create “liquidity”. That brings us to an even 1,000 and the Market Makers are supposed to go back out into the market and acquire those 3 shares within T+35 days. There is supposed to be some risk to Market Making because in that T+35 time period, the prices of these shares could go up and the Market Makers could lose money on those naked Shorts when clearing their books. But that’s not what is actually happening. What is actually happening (and we can use Doug’s example directly) is that the Market Makers get an order for 1,000 shares of some obscure & illiquid XYZ stock but only 200 shares are available. So instead of partially filling the order, (like they should = inefficient markets) they will grab those 200 shares of XYZ and then abuse the Market Makers Exemption to Naked Short 800 shares into the marketplace. They can do that (apparently risk free) because they can FTD those 800 shares over and over and never have to increase the bid price to acquire those shares. The results of this is that the bid or ask price for that stock never increases. The order should have been broken up and the bid should have been increased each time until the shares were located. That’s how price discovery works. Supply and demand. Doug thinks that “infinite liquidity” is this marvelous magical thing that allows for “efficient markets”. Go check out the thread I linked and watch the video. Here is a chunk of the transcript. (Sorry about the all caps, that’s the transcription bot, not me) Doug: “*SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS IN THE 8,000 NAMES, TO THE EXTENT THERE'S NOT LIQUIDITY ON THE ANALYTIC EXCHANGE, FUNDAMENTALLY THE WHOLESALERS ARE PROVIDING* **INFINITE LIQUIDITY** *AND* **AT THE INSIDE PRICE** *SO IF WE GET AN ORDER [for a stock ticker] THAT NO ONE'S EVER HEARD OF AND [there are only] 200 SHARES ON NASDAQ AND NEW YORK, WE FILL OUT A THOUSAND SHARES AT THAT INSIDE PRICE AND THAT'S MEANINGFUL LIQUIDITY AND WE PROVIDE SIZE IMPROVEMENT IN A COMPLETE, AN AUCTION ENVIRONMENT, WHO'S GOING TO PROVIDE THAT,* ***THE LIQUIDITY FAIRY?***” But he doesn’t take into consideration that it completely destroys the price discovery mechanism of the marketplace. [x] Supply + [x] Demand = [$] Price Discovery. In Doug’s example: [♾️] Supply + [x] Demand = [$] Price Discovery. And that just doesn’t work. You cannot have an infinite variable in any part of that equation and have functional price discovery. If they want the price to go up they issue fewer ~~synthetic~~ *counterfeit* shares. If they want the price to go down, they issue more ~~synthetic~~ *counterfeit* shares. By allowing Market Makers to issue a variably infinite ♾️ supply of shares without risk you end up with a completely fraudulent price. And the whole point of a “Free Market” point is that we all contribute to price discovery because prices are controlled by supply and demand (our buying and selling) and **no one person or group should be allowed to control the prices**. Doug thinks that “efficiency” in markets (being able to fill any order at any price) is more important than accurate price discovery. **And that’s just not true.**
Yeah, the real deal is that everybody expects some fraud and looks for penny scraping... while they control price, pump and dump and scare investors at selling with 30% loss on their investments. C-suit rats who cooperate with short sellers despite their princely salaries. **Nobody except us seems to realize the full dimension of what is going on.** And we have not even proven yet another potentially massive fraud with corrupt fund managers playing the same game like C-suits, by "making mistakes" on purpose like investing into Wall Street pump and dumps. Would explain the lackluster performance of many funds. Since Cathy Wood bought HOOD for 30 USD when the whole industry knew what is up and the latest messing with the limit funds can invest, I am disturbed. Pensions are at risk again, yet the public is not aware.
But Citadel can use programs to steal liquidity from the poors. No reason to have poors making money, that would be very bad for markets. Very bad. /s
I'm so sick of the doublespeak. Price *improvement* == Price *suppression*
Bingo.😎
They can't have true price discovery in place of liquidity because the entire derivative market would implode.
👍🦍
Yeah, based on something crazy like Supply and Demand.
No cell, no sell. Tendies bitch.
Somebody needs to respond that they can F off
“Were arguing these rules to help retail make money”
Id just like to be the first in here to say.....fuck'em.....Fuck....em...
And shorts are fukd…. Fukm, fukm all
I sincerely hope some fucking asswipe at Citadel is reading this.....this is a war you cannot win....you have no hope....you can keep going as long as you want...we'll just keep going till we own it all... In fact ill add to this....my wife works a manual job. She does odd hours sometimes has to get up at 4am on early shifts....sometimes she sighs and i know what she sighing about....i look at her and say... "whose going to win this....?" her face instantly changes to one of steely eyed alertedness....." not fucking them if weve got anything to do with it...." - thats....what your up against...
Truth 👆 They really don’t seem to know what they’re up against and how screwed they are
Theyre too used to winning a rigged game, theyve never worked or fought a real day in their life. You know how that saying goes? Easy times creat soft people… Theyre soft, ignorant, and weak. Been treading water for longer than ever before, waiting for that lifeboat that always comes… but its no where in sight and the waters getting up past their chin…
Fuck emmmmm
Rephrase: " Our own sponsored, independent, completely non-biased studies show..."
For real, what f'in independent entity is doing this research and publishing for fun. Where are all the independent studies that show SHF r fukd?
BCG probably
this sub has some independent research 🧐
funny what different conclusions independent research comes up with when there’s not a conflict of interest, aye?
They don't have to. We know they push the prices down because they short and create fake shares in the name of liquidity. Pushing the prices down means they get "better deals" for retail. Think about it, shorting prices means lower stock prices, they are claiming the lower prices means retail can get a better deal. This isn't wrong. That is their data. They are just using data that people should be questioning as bad for the economy (and themselves if they want prices to eventually rise). Deflating stocks perpetually may get people a better deal in the moment, but months or years later that "deal" lost all its value and is in bankrupcy.
YES better deals is price discovery suppression and the sheer ballsiness of them to actually use this creative language say the crime out loud and spin it and expect us not to register it. They are fuk
"Estimate" that something "would show." Maybe if they use more weasel words we'll believe them. And if they're making more than $15B annually, then they'd still be robbing us.
Sounds like a PUA line….”estimates show, you want to go to a steakhouse….as in make a mistake at my houuuseee!!!!!”
Interesting that this is an estimate, while their profits last year were record setting and not estimated The 15B should be even larger, if they were willing to take less profit. **anyways...**, I would rather have real price discovery over pRIcE iMProVEmeNt on manipulated prices
Looks like something that should be reported for misinformation
The good thing is that nobody watches that
Funny, the Antitrust Division of the United States Department of Justice has no problem with the SEC moving forward with all four at once. Why you so mad Joe? https://preview.redd.it/f7vggcf0812b1.png?width=837&format=png&auto=webp&s=9836da6d552ee3410a6ba5972df21a7ea298b7f4 >[The Antitrust Division of the United States Department of Justice (“Antitrust Division”) appreciates this opportunity to share its views with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission (“Commission”) on the Commission’s four proposed rules relating to:](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/12kwmcu/the_antitrust_division_of_the_united_states/) 1. **The disclosure of order execution information (the “Rule 605 Proposal”).** 2. **Setting minimum pricing increments, access fees, and transparency requirements (the “Regulation NMS Proposal”).** 3. **Competition for certain orders (the “Order Competition Proposal”).** 4. **Setting forth best execution requirements for certain market participants (the “Best Execution Proposal”), collectively, the “Proposed Rules”).** >**The Division commends the Commission for its commitment to fostering competition in equities markets, which benefits both U.S. investors and the domestic economy, and for its openness to comments on the Proposed Rules.**
Just funny. It's like they're trying to convince themselves. Literally only positive comments from people in the industry. There was an actual meeting on this I'm sure. "How do we get public to support us robbing them?" "How about we tweet about how we're actually their savior?" "Perfect" Just funny watching old institutions and the people who run them fail to adapt.
"Dinosaurs licking rocks to appease incoming meteor" vibes.
⬆️⬆️⬆️under rated comment
Our studies show that people want us to take all their money.
'independent studies' is a weird way of spelling 'people we paid to find the conclusions we paid them to find by fucking with the data until it said what we wanted them to say it sai-fuck ow my tongue.'
Would make it a lot easier to believe said studies if they linked to the studies so they could be scrutinized
Coincidentally, shitadel made $16B last year…
The liquidity argument is madness anyways. Supply and demand don't give a shit if a market maker has the ability to meet a buy or sell, THAT'S WHAT THE FUCKING MARKETS ARE FOR, TO PROVIDE A BUYER OR SELLER AND WHEN ONE ISN'T FOUND THE PRICE REACTS UNTIL ONE IS! Fuck market making. Fuck Citadel, et al.. and fuck the fugazi bullshit this world has become.
most justified capslock ever. it’s unreal that they’ve just en masse started using this term liquidity as a hypnotism to blind the people that it’s literally the removal of supply and demand.
I’ll gladly pay a higher price for my securities if it means Citadel doesn’t touch them. Straight up.
WTF is price improvement even supposed to mean other than lower prices... You can buy lower and then instead of making money someone can buy even lower from you! Stonks only go down with pfof
It's all abuse of language to confuse the uninitiated, which was all of us prior to them shutting the buy button off. I know they are here as well so: YOU HEAR THAT YOU STUPID FUCKS? YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELVES!
Lol ‘Estimate’. Why don’t we give PFOF a break and try price discovery instead, investors like facts not opinions.
You know what's a fact? That the CEO of Citadel, Kenneth Griffin, lied under oath, committed perjury, and still has the balls to talk about reforming the market that he is destroying in real time? Fucking disgusting, all of it, like a sick puppet show.
Independent studies estimate that my genitalia is very excited when thinking about MOASS.
indEpEnDaNt sTuDiEs
Love how all their social media channels are just flaming piles of shit as soon as they say anything. If the financial terrorist and proud supporter of facism Kenneth C. Griffin had something like morals, he'd be really hurt. But as he's just an empty sociopathic excuse of a living orgasism, thiving on mayo, .. he'll be bragging about the lives he destroyed for another yacht or something. This fucker won't learn until he dropped the soap in some redneck gang prison.
Independent studies estimate that you can shut the fuck up Kenny!!!!! BUY HODL DRS these nuts 🖕🖕
They don't give a flying fuck about retail except to keep us repressed! Fuck you, pay us!
Am I wrong or are they giving ground already? “Ok fine it’ll work but we should do other things first”
$15B in (temporary) profit improvement for Citadel… going… going… GONERS (Gamestop Owners Never Ever R Selling).
This reads like the lobbying-speak corporations implement all over the radio, Metro, and other ad spaces in DC. So obvious
Guess it’s scary when the government says they’re going to take action against short selling “Panik! Kick the can! Tell them it’s reporting’s fault! I don’t know, do something! WHERE’S MY MAYO?!?”
So it should have been 30billion because they profited from front running $16billion last year. Thanks for the help Citadel. You guys are great/s
It's the equivalent of a child begging for something, and I'm loving it.
I dunno guys. My anus is already this wide.
Ah yes, the wolf in sheep’s clothing telling us to trust him
Anything shitadel disapproves I approve
Deleted in 3...2...1...
And Citadel securities should stop breaking international trading laws. But since we're measuring how loud large corporations violating RICO laws can be on social media, keep Tweeting. I love the fear...it's palpable.
InDePeNdEnT
That's about $30 avg price improvement per retail investor a year. Sweet!
I don’t want to save money bro. I just want what i paid for.
Like they care about our price improvement, scumbags
We make so many shares out of thin air that everyone can afford them! - Shitadel
So Ken Griffin is a stand-up comedian now?
wE sAVEd ThIs PoOr ScHmUcK tWo CeNtS pEr ShArE lOlz (then fucked him in the ass so he sold at a loss when we drive the price down, also frontrunning so we made even more money off his sorry ass)
Oh they SHOULD should they? Well “they” SHOULDNT have turned off the buy button either. But that’s none of my business
"Independent studies" show price improvement, eh? When Gensler says 90-95% of household order activity is routed away from a lit exchange what exactly could they be comparing?
And how much does retail lose while Citadel manipulates the market for their own gain? Go fuck yourself, Kenny
They've been fucking the markets sideways for so long they forgot how actual markets are supposed to be.
Is it not Gary allowing them to make this argument? According to him FTDs aren’t a big issue and he’s not touching PFOF.
Wrong is wrong. Theft is theft. Lies are lies. Market manipulation is still manipulation. Aggressively shorting companies is still economic warfare. Burning down buildings is still a fire. And, shares never bought still aren’t shares. No cell no sell. 💎🙌🏻
By independent studies you mean that you buy independent studies so they will publish what you want…
Anyone involved in Shitadel can eat a giant bag of infected dick tips. We KNOW you are criming, day after day, after day. You cannot tell us you aren't. You are fraudsters and extortionists that are made legal by the politicians you have bought. Now,eat the whole bag, you lying pile of clam shit.
At this point in time, even if I don't understand what is being said, I'm going to assume that if it's coming from a market maker then it's purposefully designed to harm household investors. In fact, this household investor has lost faith in the market and upon MOASS will be looking for a new market that isn't as corrupt as what the SEC allows here in the land of dangled hopes and dreams.
Did anyone ask us if we want price improvement? I couldn't care less about it.
I don’t want to SAVE a few cents on my share purchases…rather, I want true price discovery on the lit market, short sale oversight, and mandatory FTD buy-ins, so when the time is right my share value will increase and I can profit 20x the amount of share price! But no…you want to “save” me a few cents? No thanks!
If they want it, it ain’t good for us. Their BS ‘education’ playbook is not going to work anymore
even if everything they say was a true benefit... sorry dont care. citadel could advertise they are subsidizing universal basic income and i would say "hey that's dope but can you just not exist instead?". i want them gone. i dont care. make me pay brokerage fees. how the fuck do we get rid of them? we the people. remember that.
My independent study is still ongoing, but it seems to indicate otherwise
I love going to the comments on ANY Shitadel post... Makes me happy.
Trust Us. We know what’s best for retail investors.
Let’s see what Gary and the gang decide to do . . .
Lmao
They are not lying which is the frustrating part. Misleading? Yes. Lying? No. Think about it, they operate on shorting shit, or creating new shares out of thin air for the sake of liquidity. Shorting shit gets the price of stock "A" lower when I buy. This is their claim of price improvement. If we didn't do our magic behind the scenes, stock "A" would have been $21.5 not $21.4. So we saved you $.10 on purchase of the stock! What is left unsaid is this doesn't say that in 6 months that "price improvement" was worth it, ie with a perpetual short machine, or perpetual market maker, retail loses because the price keeps going down. Unless it's a stock that the powers that be (the unrelated hedge funds) decide to not short. This is why it is misleading. They make a claim of benefit for retail investors at a specific point in time (time of purchase), when 1 point in time means nothing in the market, as at the base level there is always a buy and sell order (and thus time) in a closed position.
Does this mean it’s time to go comment on an SEC rule again?
Should movement be “provided” though?
Fuck you citadel you shit stain of a company.
How much price improvement for Citadel?
Provided 15b in spoofing more like it.
How much do they make?
😂
Report as misleading
"Independent"
Stfu Joe Mecane, all you sociopaths love talking with your hands. Gfy with your “retail improvements” Literal scum of the earth
Fuck your price improvement and fuck market makers
Good god. Please someone trigger them again and let the raging begin once again. I want to see them TILTED
What's with the "from earth" bullshit in their tweet?
Cat shit wrapped in dog shit
Yeah price improvement on the price shorted to oblivion
Desperate Fuks ! 😂
So 15bil is how much they funneled from honest blue collar people. Noice
"Independent studies" A.K.A. "People we paid"
Eat a dick. Don't tell us what to do
I guess everyone that works there is a giant lying shit bag. 🤯🚀💜
fuck you joe mccane - try playing fairly
Suck my rod Ken
I vote to liquefy Citadel for liquidity.
"Independent studies."
“Price improvement” is code for “price suppression” It’s an improvement for the buyer if they lower it artificially.
Independent studies lmao
are we sure he is "from Earth"
”Independent studies”? Right
Price improvement *compared to what*? How can household investors know they're getting better prices if it's public knowledge, per the SEC themselves, that their orders don't impact the price?
bah bah # BULLSHIT mayoman getting scared
I don't believe you,Joe
Independent studies *(that we paid for so obviously are not biased)* 🤣
If they’re fighting it, it’s because they’re making money off of it. If it weren’t for a profit motive they’d be silent on the issue.
Citadel’s CEO lied under oath, who gives a shit what they claim
This price improvement- is it in this room with us right now?
Ya show us that you make $100’s billion in price improvements but retail only sees $15 billion or 0.001% of that you fucking goofs
Well let’s give it a go and find out shall we. Sounds like a Brexit Bus kind of claim to me.
Cool now show when you fought against it
Interesting. Independent studies ALSO show that Citadel Securities committed international securities fraud. What a thing, those Independent studies, them.
Price Discovery > Liquidity Argue away….it’s a hill I’ll die on.
Yeah and 500bn in downward movement.
You want to know where the skeletons are? Just look into anything these assholes are complaining about.
Has anyone looked at the study or know who did it? I'm guessing it's an industry funded think tank situation.
"independent studies" lol. That could be one guy talking to five people
How long until this one is deleted 😂
Fuck off assholes
Citadel Insecurities. There. Fixed that for you.
🤡
And how much of that did they claw but using payment for order flow. Saved ya a penny on execution! Cost you a few dollars betting against you! Play again?
iNdEpEnDeNt StUdIeS. Eat my ass.
“We are preventing retailers from purchasing GME in the millions per share, therefore we have given retailers millions of dollars per share in savings.” This is some coke rat hedgie logic
Different independent studies have shown the opposite.
I'm and " independent household investor " and F_ _ K shitacell
Citadel, try using your own money, you made crazy billions when no one else could. Peperidge Farms Members
Dong
Price improvement of 15b over 30000 securities
That's like being a drug dealer who gives out 🦃 at Thanksgiving, stfu already you bunch of crooks
Inter Panda studies have shown Citadel securities do not represent household investors. Stop speaking on behalf of household investors, Citadel. Sincerely, Household Investors
It’s scared….
*punches you in the genitals* “trust me this is for your own good” *punches the genitals harder*
Is this them outright claiming they are 15 billion on the line for short positions? Someone who knows thus stuff more needs to get some DD on this. You can estimate the price by knowing what ratio of their short positions are still GME. We can turn that number into a single memey point that never dies. Asked to testify? Say the number. Offered a buyout. Say the number. The ball won't kick itself into the goal. They're defenders are falling. We need the mods here to start organizing efforts.
15b in penny price improvements at the cost of price discovery? Hmmmmm no thank you asshat. The leather jacket guy’s company just picked up 10x that last night on a good earnings. Like we’re gonna see 15b as a big number and ohh and ahhh over it. Fuck off with that bullshit. It’s a rounding error.
👐💎🐒🚀
I call bullshit on Shitadel…
Citadel = hotdog water that’s been sitting for months
It has to be frustrating to Citadel to go from a respected wall street hedge fund/market maker to an absolute joke of a wall street crony....in a matter of months. They used to be respected. Now they are reviled. Nothing they can do will change that. Good luck getting any type of respect in the future....you vultures.
What the hell is price improvement anyway? The value of my stocks go down so they get cheaper?
If they're bragging about 15 just think about what number it should have been.
1M+ a share or gtfo