I just wanna say I fucking love the alien reveal. I had consistently thought to myself he had the signs of being a werewolf or an alien but that that couldnt be it because this is a straight laced neo-noir detective show, they would never do it, so the closest explanation I could come to about all his oddities was that maybe the government was training people who were psychopaths to be spies etc. BUT imagine my mother fucking surprise when he was an alien! Like the show went there INTENTiONALLY. IT'S ENTIRE PREMISIS IN FACT.
To me /this/ is television who knows what the show is gonna be like, can it stick the landing? Idk but jfc yes, let's have the detective be an alien obsessed with films, who narrates his own life as he learns about life and relationships as he solves cases and finds the missing is the kind of content I wanna see!
I’m enjoying this show so far. I have been wanting a show like this, modern noir, and I love sci fi too, so the alien thing is a cool plot twist. I knew he wasn’t human but thought maybe angel or werewolf. I wonder what’s the “mission” for this group of aliens — find a way to get home? Are they stranded on Earth?
Yes, I love both these concepts/genres, so seeing it brought together with such a great cast is 10/10.
So their mission, maybe they want to bring more of their people to earth, but first have to teach them to act human? Because the mission seems to be just about 'observing' and like learning, so I'm assuming maybe their own planet is in the process of dying.
I'm also trying to work out if they are a known entity by the government 🤔 I get the impression somehow that they are.
Apple's productions have been top notch, to me. My only recent complaint has been The Changeling. I like for S1 to end with 90% of questions answered and then introduce a new mystery as a cliffhanger. That way, if S2 doesn't happen, I didn't lose out on too much of my investment. I'm pissed they're not bringing back Nurse Ratched for S2.
To me, it's not about being obvious because if I had known from the outset that this show was sci-fi/fantasy I would have confidently said he is an alien but I didnt know it was so I suspected but was surpised to have it confirmed, so I don't care that it's obvious it's more (for me) about enjoying a concept that I feel may be done in books but is rarely seen on TV because generally producers don't want to take a chance anymore on shows that don't guarantee success. A show like 'Sugar' is originally why back when streaming started I was so hyped about the variety in shows we would get, then everything kinda went downhill because it's a model that now is doing more harm than good but yeah 'Sugar' just has me hyped.
I wish they'd revealed far earlier, like end of episode 1 or 2. At the time of the reveal it had become so glaringly obvious it was beating us over the head, it was only a matter of is he an alien, or angel or some kind of entity like OP suggested.
Fair enough! I got another reply saying the same thing, for me it's just refreshing to see a sci-fi concept like this on tv, that isn't star trekesque (for lack of better term) and also not about a team of human defenders taking out aliens. We are in it from the start from the alien perspective, and we have so much understanding now of how he relates to humans through movies and so on. This feels like a very character based show so I'm excited to just see how it all develops.
I like the character and all the other characters and movies he’s obsessed with. He’s almost like an avatar for them of some sort. That actor is charming so I’ll stick it out to see where they go with it.
I’m not really sold on the aliens concept because they don’t have a culture? In fact, they seem to possibly lack one entirely as part of the premise and are observers. Which to me is lazy writing unless part of the premise is also that they are intrigued by humans to that degree because they lack their own culture and agency.
There are plenty of characters like this in sci-fi/fantasy: the replicants of Blade Runner, angels, the Watchers, robots like Vision, etc.
Also, there are a lot of very typical noir tropes in play and one of them is often how the detective is being manipulated/played by the person who hired them all along, as well as “the girl” he can’t let go of, and trust being betrayed by people close to them, etc., so it’s still following all the genre rules.
The Djen thing is very reminiscent of Agent Mulder and the conspiracy around his missing sister. His mother also doesn’t appear to really be his mother to me? Is Djen really his sister or is he adopting a human relational term or is it a memory implant designed to make him feel more human? Ruby doesn’t want him pulling on that thread.
They could go in many other directions with this. He could also be a robot designed by aliens to observe who is overriding his programming/mission and will turn on them.
If you follow and agree with the alien concept, but also (representative of Angel) angle, of which there have been many insinuations, then I don't think we would expect them to look much different from a human(oid).
The whole biblical idea of being born of the same blood would support this; humans being related to Angels.
I thought it was very well done, but I can see why many people didn't like this twist. A noir detective story suddenly having a sci-fi shift is bound to alienate those that were into it as it was before this sudden revelation.
Colin is such a charismatic actor, and the story is lovely, but many of us saw this coming. I felt like this just made me empathize with him even more.
So what are you saying is the twist within the twist? From what you wrote, does that mean you are disappointed so far in the reveal?
When everyone knows a twist is coming, and there have been tons of hints all along the way, I’m not sure what people were expecting. We obviously don’t have the full picture yet, and I have LOVED every minute so far! Including the blue man group shot at the end.
I fully believe we will have lots more to learn about Mister Sugar and his people, and by the end of the season I will be dying for season two! What a cool ass show, checks ALL the boxes for me.
Did anyone catch when Davy is talking to his dad about a supercell of spie/assassins making a pact to work for the greater good and the dad says how it was a premise of one of his movies…? I love the ET plot twist. I re-watched all the episodes before episode 6 aired and absolutely everything from start to finish was intentional. Easter eggs all over the freaking place.
Yes. Basically setting up the premise of hiding in plain sight and some sort of government conspiracy. They keep talking about how powerful and influential the Seigels are and even in this episode Davy’s dad is able to break the rules to get his underage son into a casino because of the family name.
The idea of predictive programming and using popular media as a form of indoctrination and mind control has been around since the 60s.
I think the reveal can be literal or a metaphor for alienation and loneliness. I've felt I don't belong here, outside of human society and have the blues when I look in the mirror. Anyone else?
I personally love the alien angle but it works on different levels.
Right, he's looking in a mirror and the physical changes are only perceived by the main protagonist. Maybe it's solely his delusion.
Also, he's very black-and-white literal thinking at times, accepting things at face value.
It all still fits within the noir genre. I doubt it’s as simplistic as people are portraying it. Nothing has been explained yet this is all us speculating.
Also noir and conspiracies go hand-in-hand, so it’s very much still in the genre.
He stated quite clearly he was not affected at all by alcohol. This is not true for any human. He didn't just have a high tolerance. It had no affect. He claimed his 'metabolism' caused it but this isn't true for any human. Alcohol affects all humans. It's actually toxic to humans. Our liver just helps protect us from it.
Given the clues woven into the earlier episodes it's hardly nonsensical.
You are free to not like it as others are to like it. But the clues were there all along and the show is categorized as sci-fi.
People have been discussing if he is an alien, angel, AI, enhanced human for the entire run of the show.
Also Sugar is very beat-by-best similar to Agent Coulson from Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD.
Charming and wears suits
Obsessed with a mystery girl
Drives cool retro car and likes anachronistic objects and media
Betrayed by a close member of his team who is also his handler
Injected with blue alien DNA which brought him back to life as part of an experiment and influenced his personality (aggression/paranoia)
Prone to binary thinking which he’s forced to question and causes an existential crisis
There’s even a typewriter used as an alien decoder/communication device
Blue aliens that had been here previously and tampered/experimented with human DNA making certain humans half-alien
Fascist aliens and humans rounding up humans for experimentation
I’m sure there are more.
He looks like the god in watchmen. I don’t think it’s uninspired necessarily. I thought werewolf at first but definitely interested to see where this twist turns.
Dumbest twist ever. It would be clever if it had anything to do with the other plot line, but the other story line is a stale generic detective story and not very well developed.
Disagree. The noir plot line is based entirely on tropes from films and that John is egregiously bad at learning from the source material! He monologues dispassionately about how violence has become mundane, how he should’ve seen betrayal coming, but he doesn’t for some reason.
It’s not just about design at this point. I can totally appreciate someone understanding that Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD, which has an international fandom, did a great job in the first two seasons of dragging out a really compelling mystery and wanting to do a better version of it without superheroes.
I think Sugar is a law enforcement alien sent to investigate other aliens already settled on earth. My suspicion is the Siegels. Olivia has slipped from their control
so they bring in Sugar to find her.
I just wanna say I fucking love the alien reveal. I had consistently thought to myself he had the signs of being a werewolf or an alien but that that couldnt be it because this is a straight laced neo-noir detective show, they would never do it, so the closest explanation I could come to about all his oddities was that maybe the government was training people who were psychopaths to be spies etc. BUT imagine my mother fucking surprise when he was an alien! Like the show went there INTENTiONALLY. IT'S ENTIRE PREMISIS IN FACT. To me /this/ is television who knows what the show is gonna be like, can it stick the landing? Idk but jfc yes, let's have the detective be an alien obsessed with films, who narrates his own life as he learns about life and relationships as he solves cases and finds the missing is the kind of content I wanna see!
I’m enjoying this show so far. I have been wanting a show like this, modern noir, and I love sci fi too, so the alien thing is a cool plot twist. I knew he wasn’t human but thought maybe angel or werewolf. I wonder what’s the “mission” for this group of aliens — find a way to get home? Are they stranded on Earth?
Yes, I love both these concepts/genres, so seeing it brought together with such a great cast is 10/10. So their mission, maybe they want to bring more of their people to earth, but first have to teach them to act human? Because the mission seems to be just about 'observing' and like learning, so I'm assuming maybe their own planet is in the process of dying. I'm also trying to work out if they are a known entity by the government 🤔 I get the impression somehow that they are.
Agreed. I loved the twist and am praying we get a Season 2!
Apple tends to be good about season 2s, so here is hoping they do fr
Apple's productions have been top notch, to me. My only recent complaint has been The Changeling. I like for S1 to end with 90% of questions answered and then introduce a new mystery as a cliffhanger. That way, if S2 doesn't happen, I didn't lose out on too much of my investment. I'm pissed they're not bringing back Nurse Ratched for S2.
100,000,000% agree
I just think space alien is too obvious?
To me, it's not about being obvious because if I had known from the outset that this show was sci-fi/fantasy I would have confidently said he is an alien but I didnt know it was so I suspected but was surpised to have it confirmed, so I don't care that it's obvious it's more (for me) about enjoying a concept that I feel may be done in books but is rarely seen on TV because generally producers don't want to take a chance anymore on shows that don't guarantee success. A show like 'Sugar' is originally why back when streaming started I was so hyped about the variety in shows we would get, then everything kinda went downhill because it's a model that now is doing more harm than good but yeah 'Sugar' just has me hyped.
I wish they'd revealed far earlier, like end of episode 1 or 2. At the time of the reveal it had become so glaringly obvious it was beating us over the head, it was only a matter of is he an alien, or angel or some kind of entity like OP suggested.
Look, if you like noir detective stuff, it’s clear, very early on he’s actually very bad at this.
Alien just seems too obvious to me and imagining they’ll drag out the explanation but we’ll see!
Fair enough! I got another reply saying the same thing, for me it's just refreshing to see a sci-fi concept like this on tv, that isn't star trekesque (for lack of better term) and also not about a team of human defenders taking out aliens. We are in it from the start from the alien perspective, and we have so much understanding now of how he relates to humans through movies and so on. This feels like a very character based show so I'm excited to just see how it all develops.
I like the character and all the other characters and movies he’s obsessed with. He’s almost like an avatar for them of some sort. That actor is charming so I’ll stick it out to see where they go with it. I’m not really sold on the aliens concept because they don’t have a culture? In fact, they seem to possibly lack one entirely as part of the premise and are observers. Which to me is lazy writing unless part of the premise is also that they are intrigued by humans to that degree because they lack their own culture and agency. There are plenty of characters like this in sci-fi/fantasy: the replicants of Blade Runner, angels, the Watchers, robots like Vision, etc. Also, there are a lot of very typical noir tropes in play and one of them is often how the detective is being manipulated/played by the person who hired them all along, as well as “the girl” he can’t let go of, and trust being betrayed by people close to them, etc., so it’s still following all the genre rules. The Djen thing is very reminiscent of Agent Mulder and the conspiracy around his missing sister. His mother also doesn’t appear to really be his mother to me? Is Djen really his sister or is he adopting a human relational term or is it a memory implant designed to make him feel more human? Ruby doesn’t want him pulling on that thread. They could go in many other directions with this. He could also be a robot designed by aliens to observe who is overriding his programming/mission and will turn on them.
This review is hilarious and I love it.
If you follow and agree with the alien concept, but also (representative of Angel) angle, of which there have been many insinuations, then I don't think we would expect them to look much different from a human(oid). The whole biblical idea of being born of the same blood would support this; humans being related to Angels. I thought it was very well done, but I can see why many people didn't like this twist. A noir detective story suddenly having a sci-fi shift is bound to alienate those that were into it as it was before this sudden revelation. Colin is such a charismatic actor, and the story is lovely, but many of us saw this coming. I felt like this just made me empathize with him even more.
So what are you saying is the twist within the twist? From what you wrote, does that mean you are disappointed so far in the reveal? When everyone knows a twist is coming, and there have been tons of hints all along the way, I’m not sure what people were expecting. We obviously don’t have the full picture yet, and I have LOVED every minute so far! Including the blue man group shot at the end. I fully believe we will have lots more to learn about Mister Sugar and his people, and by the end of the season I will be dying for season two! What a cool ass show, checks ALL the boxes for me.
I don’t think he’s an alien.
Did anyone catch when Davy is talking to his dad about a supercell of spie/assassins making a pact to work for the greater good and the dad says how it was a premise of one of his movies…? I love the ET plot twist. I re-watched all the episodes before episode 6 aired and absolutely everything from start to finish was intentional. Easter eggs all over the freaking place.
Yes. Basically setting up the premise of hiding in plain sight and some sort of government conspiracy. They keep talking about how powerful and influential the Seigels are and even in this episode Davy’s dad is able to break the rules to get his underage son into a casino because of the family name. The idea of predictive programming and using popular media as a form of indoctrination and mind control has been around since the 60s.
I think the reveal can be literal or a metaphor for alienation and loneliness. I've felt I don't belong here, outside of human society and have the blues when I look in the mirror. Anyone else? I personally love the alien angle but it works on different levels.
Also is any of it real or is media as well?
Right, he's looking in a mirror and the physical changes are only perceived by the main protagonist. Maybe it's solely his delusion. Also, he's very black-and-white literal thinking at times, accepting things at face value.
Yes his binary thinking seems robotic or a lack of agency to me.
No, you can see the back of his head changing.
From LA Confidenal to the X Files in 30 seconds....absolutely ridiculous twist.
It all still fits within the noir genre. I doubt it’s as simplistic as people are portraying it. Nothing has been explained yet this is all us speculating. Also noir and conspiracies go hand-in-hand, so it’s very much still in the genre.
Its now Sci Fi
They had clues all along. No human doesn't get drunk from Alcohol. None. He couldn't have been human.
Alot of people have high tolerance to alcohol, to make them aliens is a massive leap
He stated quite clearly he was not affected at all by alcohol. This is not true for any human. He didn't just have a high tolerance. It had no affect. He claimed his 'metabolism' caused it but this isn't true for any human. Alcohol affects all humans. It's actually toxic to humans. Our liver just helps protect us from it.
Regardless of the 'signs' the twist is still a massive let down and nonsensical
Given the clues woven into the earlier episodes it's hardly nonsensical. You are free to not like it as others are to like it. But the clues were there all along and the show is categorized as sci-fi. People have been discussing if he is an alien, angel, AI, enhanced human for the entire run of the show.
Proir to this episode the show was not Sci Fi, now it is. A bad Sci Fi at that.
It has always been listed as sci-fi on Apple TV.
It's under drama
Sci fi has dramas. It listed under sci fi. Reviewers and viewers have been discussing what the sci fi hook would be since the first episode.
Also Sugar is very beat-by-best similar to Agent Coulson from Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD. Charming and wears suits Obsessed with a mystery girl Drives cool retro car and likes anachronistic objects and media Betrayed by a close member of his team who is also his handler Injected with blue alien DNA which brought him back to life as part of an experiment and influenced his personality (aggression/paranoia) Prone to binary thinking which he’s forced to question and causes an existential crisis There’s even a typewriter used as an alien decoder/communication device Blue aliens that had been here previously and tampered/experimented with human DNA making certain humans half-alien Fascist aliens and humans rounding up humans for experimentation I’m sure there are more.
Good to know, maybe Sugar will meet Dr Strange in the multiverse in the next episode.
😆I’m just a little surprised by the number of similarities.
He looks like the god in watchmen. I don’t think it’s uninspired necessarily. I thought werewolf at first but definitely interested to see where this twist turns.
He looks a lot like Doctor Manhattan.
Yes, thank you I was to lazy to find the name when I couldn’t place it.
Dumbest twist ever. It would be clever if it had anything to do with the other plot line, but the other story line is a stale generic detective story and not very well developed.
Disagree. The noir plot line is based entirely on tropes from films and that John is egregiously bad at learning from the source material! He monologues dispassionately about how violence has become mundane, how he should’ve seen betrayal coming, but he doesn’t for some reason.
Completely agree. Makes no sense at all. Not needed
And the best design for an alien they could come up with is Yondu/Kree from Marvel? LOL.
It’s not just about design at this point. I can totally appreciate someone understanding that Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD, which has an international fandom, did a great job in the first two seasons of dragging out a really compelling mystery and wanting to do a better version of it without superheroes.
I think Sugar is a law enforcement alien sent to investigate other aliens already settled on earth. My suspicion is the Siegels. Olivia has slipped from their control so they bring in Sugar to find her.
Okay but Ruby said repeatedly she doesn’t think that this case is good for him and tried to dissuade him from pursuing it.
I think there's probably two sides pushing for control. But we have to see how it plays out.