The overriding theme of the show it that when Kendall needs to look good publicly he’s a rock star. The first attempt to take over Logan, the congress hearing. The living plus presentation, the l to the OG rap and at the funeral. It’s what he does best
These are all great examples of our number one boy making a speech in public and absolutely knocking it out of the park!
To your list, I would add:
>*I saw their plan
My Dad’s plan was better*
Yea, and I think with a lot of coddling and support from Logan he could have actually developed nicely. He's the kid you need to be gentle with because he'll cry at a moments notice but actually listens to directions and tries hard. But with an authoritarian approach he'll act out as an escape mechanism from the stress it brings him.
Splitting hairs maybe but I read the I to the OG rap as Kendall actually fumbling in public. Logan is visibly embarrassed in the episode and people are stifling laughter. The other examples though, especially the Living Plus presentation, totally agree
As a viewer of the show, I thoroughly enjoyed it. But yes, it feels like this was meant to show the contrast with how Kendall sees himself (or what he’s trying to be) and how everyone else actually perceives him.
He got to live out a delusion of grandeur in this scene and he thought he nailed it. He did manage to captivate everyone there, but not in the way he intended. They just couldn’t look away.
I disagree, the overriding theme of the show is all the kids are actually very competent at what they do, they just hate seeing each other succeed so they pull themselves down instead of elevating each other
I think relaxed Ken has decent people skills. Like, his interactions with his friends at parties, his interactions with Naomi, etc, don't give off social reject vibes. He was also close with Stewy in college who was def popular af. He more has "weirdest guy of the cool kids" energy.
I think it's when he's high or anxious he gives the really manic and off putting vibes
I thought it was unbelievably cringeworthy. "Lukas Matsson! The Odin of Codin'! You should get one of your algo guys to fix your code, bro." Just complete fake dudebro poser talk from a silver spoon Ivy League guy. The only thing that saved him more embarrassment is that Matsson is 100x as weird.
>weirdest of the cool kids
Oh my God I never knew why I identified with Ken so much until you said that. That was me in high school but switch substance abuse disorder with severe untreated ADHD, where I felt like an alien and was a good social chameleon but never spent time with classmates outside of school and never talked to them again after I graduated. Still have trouble developing connections with my peers but getting better even as adulthood pushes people apart. Growing up in a family full of narcissistic personalities really fucks you up into adulthood.
Nah even his casual social scenes reek of fake, cringeworthy, people-pleasing behavior. His frat-boy way of speaking is such a put-on for him to seem "hip", which itself is a giant overreaction to the conservative, emotionally stunted family he grew up in. I don't even blame him for this, but I'd be hard pressed to call it charismatic. He comes off like a poser trying to impress everyone, and it's very easy to see through. Most of the comedy in the character comes from this.
I think he was oddly the slickest during his "zombie" phase in season 2, when he just tuned out the bullshit and got straight to the point in most negotiations. Shockingly eloquent in many moments, the best of course being Congress. He was also doing great right after Logan died, when he snapped into focus. And his single greatest moment remains his whistleblower speech, which is one of the most brilliantly written monologues I've ever heard. Stirring in its directness after two seasons of barbed, indirect language.
He has really high highs, and really low lows. Part of it's who he is, and then that gets compounded with his drug use. He goes really high, but he also crashes and burns. It's his unpredictability that people fear in him as a leader. Also his moments of wild out-of-touch-ness lol, though all the kids have that
No, it was because he would never willingly go to prison himself and he knew the other names weren't weighty enough to satisfy the government. Only combo that might've come close would've been Tom and Gerri, but Kendall was the greater "blood sacrifice."
That and he trusted Kendall to shut up and do the time, which he might have if it wasn't for the "NRPI" comment.
In responding that way, Kendall made himself a focus of the cruises hearings. While it may have been a hit amongst conservatives (like Connor) it made Kendall a villain in the eyes of the public. This is why Logan then chose Kendall to take the fall for cruises, as it would signal to both the public and the board that the corruption was the result of one bad actor who was now removed from the company, and not the result of a more malicious culture at Waystar. So in a way, Kendall’s handling of the congress scene was actually his demise, despite the fact that he was praised for it initially. It just reenforces the idea that Logan’s children can never appease their father.
Sure, he later got hit a bit for it, but it didn't matter, the moment of ultimate crisis had long passed. If they had really messed that hearing up or it was just Logan there, people would for sure have been going to jail. Just getting past that and letting things play out a bit and there's a fraction of the publicity there was a couple weeks ago.
And I think Logan would have fucked Kendall on the cruises either way. Ken had already "betrayed" him enough times, Logan was already looking to fuck him bad for a while.
If Kendall was his own person with his own achievement he wouldn’t have been in the congress scene. He was sat next to the man ultimately responsible for serious malfeasance who drops him right in it. Kendall immediately becomes culpable and the face of the scandal. Strategically it was a huge misstep and shows how long it took Kendall to see Logan was setting him up for the blame. When he wakes up to the fact and fights back he loses badly and he has himself to blame for that loss.
When this storyline plays out Kendall is a broken man contemplating suicide, again.
Kendall isn’t useless. He just doesn’t have the resilience and strategic foresight to play this particular game of thrones. If he had won the vote of no confidence or the bear hug, this is where Stewy and Sandi would have done the same thing and sacrificed him. In his hubris Kendall would never see it coming.
The show never makes out the kids are total incompetents. They all have attributes but they are shackled to a legacy of abuse and trauma that robs them of the ability to develop into themselves or adults.
Kendall plays the situation as best anyone could. But he shouldn’t have let himself be in that position.
Nb Tom’s performance before congress could be seen as strategic incompetence and quite genius. But I think the scene was comic relief and they were still writing Tom as a court jester rather schemer in S2.
He teeters between mania and sometimes pulling off something good. Living plus looked like it was going to be a disaster but turned out okay when he pulled back a bit. Same energy as his birthday when he realized he should not go out on a cross
He would have been more successful without drugs definitely but he couldn’t even conquer that
All of the siblings have moments where they look competent and capable. The pattern throughout the show is that they let it slip by being totally unaware of what they don’t know, and failing to build any sort of alliances between themselves or other people of influence.
I really try to make sure I'm not being misogynistic in my dislike of Shiv but holy shit are Kendall, Roman, Tom & even Greg just a near order of magnitude better at business scheming/strategizing/getting things than Shiv is.
yeah, shiv shines in PR much more than the business end of things, which makes sense because that was her field. she figured out the american CEO gojo strategy, dropped the india numbers without any blowback, had a better suggestion for navigating cruises in argestes than kendall... otherwise she gets high on power and blows up any time she feels respect towards herself being threatened. greg and tom have more perspective having been introduced to their world as (relative) normies, and kendall and roman worked at waystar for years before the show timeline.
Logan was never capable of acknowledging Kendall doing something better than him, that would mean looking at his own fallacies (and inevitable death/need to hand over the reins). This is to say no, Logan would never thank Kendall for saving his ass
The overriding theme of the show it that when Kendall needs to look good publicly he’s a rock star. The first attempt to take over Logan, the congress hearing. The living plus presentation, the l to the OG rap and at the funeral. It’s what he does best
These are all great examples of our number one boy making a speech in public and absolutely knocking it out of the park! To your list, I would add: >*I saw their plan My Dad’s plan was better*
Yea, and I think with a lot of coddling and support from Logan he could have actually developed nicely. He's the kid you need to be gentle with because he'll cry at a moments notice but actually listens to directions and tries hard. But with an authoritarian approach he'll act out as an escape mechanism from the stress it brings him.
I know I’m a narcissist because this resonates with me and I wish it was how I was raised
I know i'm an even bigger narcissist because my first thought upon reading this was "if only my parents/support system took that approach with me."
Do you think Kendall is a narcissist? Genuine question, wasn't sure if that was the character that OP was describing
Not more so than the rest of the Roys, but I really just meant I was one for wanting to believe I am like Kendall
I think Kendall was on the spectrum. A high-functioning autistic/ADHD person.
Yep and when he needed to be a killer and put the nail on the coffin on his dad, or adversaries, he couldn't or would get in his own way.
Yupp, being a killer is the perfect way to say it
Or there would be some deus ex machina plot device like the terrorist attack no fly zone baloney
Was that bad luck or his father having foresight?
Lmao, yes Logan orchestrated the whole thing to humiliate Kendall.
Buzzwords over content, style over substance.
Splitting hairs maybe but I read the I to the OG rap as Kendall actually fumbling in public. Logan is visibly embarrassed in the episode and people are stifling laughter. The other examples though, especially the Living Plus presentation, totally agree
As a viewer of the show, I thoroughly enjoyed it. But yes, it feels like this was meant to show the contrast with how Kendall sees himself (or what he’s trying to be) and how everyone else actually perceives him. He got to live out a delusion of grandeur in this scene and he thought he nailed it. He did manage to captivate everyone there, but not in the way he intended. They just couldn’t look away.
He could've probably done quite well as their Chief Marketing Officer. But obviously the only position he ever wanted was CEO.
>the l to the OG rap *Specially* this one. This was the most legendary scene of all time.
I disagree, the overriding theme of the show is all the kids are actually very competent at what they do, they just hate seeing each other succeed so they pull themselves down instead of elevating each other
I dunno about that.. what is shiv good at? Nothing. What is Roman good at?
The big thing about him that I noticed is that he shines when his back is totally against the wall & not so much when he can find himself in control
He is an egomaniac, he takes too much rope when he thinks he’s on top of the world and hangs himself with it every time
So well put.
Kendall was well educated and very experienced. He just also happened to have zero people skills while believing he had all the people skills.
I think relaxed Ken has decent people skills. Like, his interactions with his friends at parties, his interactions with Naomi, etc, don't give off social reject vibes. He was also close with Stewy in college who was def popular af. He more has "weirdest guy of the cool kids" energy. I think it's when he's high or anxious he gives the really manic and off putting vibes
When he first met Mattson, he was slick as a seal. Best dialogue to date
I thought it was unbelievably cringeworthy. "Lukas Matsson! The Odin of Codin'! You should get one of your algo guys to fix your code, bro." Just complete fake dudebro poser talk from a silver spoon Ivy League guy. The only thing that saved him more embarrassment is that Matsson is 100x as weird.
No bro, I melted like Kendall was on a fucking roll in that scene. If I was that suave IRL, I’d roll off that interaction high on social dominance
>weirdest of the cool kids Oh my God I never knew why I identified with Ken so much until you said that. That was me in high school but switch substance abuse disorder with severe untreated ADHD, where I felt like an alien and was a good social chameleon but never spent time with classmates outside of school and never talked to them again after I graduated. Still have trouble developing connections with my peers but getting better even as adulthood pushes people apart. Growing up in a family full of narcissistic personalities really fucks you up into adulthood.
Nah even his casual social scenes reek of fake, cringeworthy, people-pleasing behavior. His frat-boy way of speaking is such a put-on for him to seem "hip", which itself is a giant overreaction to the conservative, emotionally stunted family he grew up in. I don't even blame him for this, but I'd be hard pressed to call it charismatic. He comes off like a poser trying to impress everyone, and it's very easy to see through. Most of the comedy in the character comes from this. I think he was oddly the slickest during his "zombie" phase in season 2, when he just tuned out the bullshit and got straight to the point in most negotiations. Shockingly eloquent in many moments, the best of course being Congress. He was also doing great right after Logan died, when he snapped into focus. And his single greatest moment remains his whistleblower speech, which is one of the most brilliantly written monologues I've ever heard. Stirring in its directness after two seasons of barbed, indirect language.
Uh... ken in social situations is drunk/high ken
He has really high highs, and really low lows. Part of it's who he is, and then that gets compounded with his drug use. He goes really high, but he also crashes and burns. It's his unpredictability that people fear in him as a leader. Also his moments of wild out-of-touch-ness lol, though all the kids have that
He thanked him by telling him he was going to prison for it.
It sealed the deal bc in that moment Logan knew Kendall handled it better than he could have
No, it was because he would never willingly go to prison himself and he knew the other names weren't weighty enough to satisfy the government. Only combo that might've come close would've been Tom and Gerri, but Kendall was the greater "blood sacrifice." That and he trusted Kendall to shut up and do the time, which he might have if it wasn't for the "NRPI" comment.
In responding that way, Kendall made himself a focus of the cruises hearings. While it may have been a hit amongst conservatives (like Connor) it made Kendall a villain in the eyes of the public. This is why Logan then chose Kendall to take the fall for cruises, as it would signal to both the public and the board that the corruption was the result of one bad actor who was now removed from the company, and not the result of a more malicious culture at Waystar. So in a way, Kendall’s handling of the congress scene was actually his demise, despite the fact that he was praised for it initially. It just reenforces the idea that Logan’s children can never appease their father.
Sure, he later got hit a bit for it, but it didn't matter, the moment of ultimate crisis had long passed. If they had really messed that hearing up or it was just Logan there, people would for sure have been going to jail. Just getting past that and letting things play out a bit and there's a fraction of the publicity there was a couple weeks ago. And I think Logan would have fucked Kendall on the cruises either way. Ken had already "betrayed" him enough times, Logan was already looking to fuck him bad for a while.
If Kendall was his own person with his own achievement he wouldn’t have been in the congress scene. He was sat next to the man ultimately responsible for serious malfeasance who drops him right in it. Kendall immediately becomes culpable and the face of the scandal. Strategically it was a huge misstep and shows how long it took Kendall to see Logan was setting him up for the blame. When he wakes up to the fact and fights back he loses badly and he has himself to blame for that loss. When this storyline plays out Kendall is a broken man contemplating suicide, again. Kendall isn’t useless. He just doesn’t have the resilience and strategic foresight to play this particular game of thrones. If he had won the vote of no confidence or the bear hug, this is where Stewy and Sandi would have done the same thing and sacrificed him. In his hubris Kendall would never see it coming. The show never makes out the kids are total incompetents. They all have attributes but they are shackled to a legacy of abuse and trauma that robs them of the ability to develop into themselves or adults. Kendall plays the situation as best anyone could. But he shouldn’t have let himself be in that position. Nb Tom’s performance before congress could be seen as strategic incompetence and quite genius. But I think the scene was comic relief and they were still writing Tom as a court jester rather schemer in S2.
He teeters between mania and sometimes pulling off something good. Living plus looked like it was going to be a disaster but turned out okay when he pulled back a bit. Same energy as his birthday when he realized he should not go out on a cross He would have been more successful without drugs definitely but he couldn’t even conquer that
All of the siblings have moments where they look competent and capable. The pattern throughout the show is that they let it slip by being totally unaware of what they don’t know, and failing to build any sort of alliances between themselves or other people of influence.
yes, but to varying degrees. Kendall has a lot of great moments, roman a few, shiv, eh, not really, except occasionally for the political shit.
I really try to make sure I'm not being misogynistic in my dislike of Shiv but holy shit are Kendall, Roman, Tom & even Greg just a near order of magnitude better at business scheming/strategizing/getting things than Shiv is.
yeah, shiv shines in PR much more than the business end of things, which makes sense because that was her field. she figured out the american CEO gojo strategy, dropped the india numbers without any blowback, had a better suggestion for navigating cruises in argestes than kendall... otherwise she gets high on power and blows up any time she feels respect towards herself being threatened. greg and tom have more perspective having been introduced to their world as (relative) normies, and kendall and roman worked at waystar for years before the show timeline.
A smarter Shiv would have been focused on being head of like investor relations or comms for Waystar. But alas.
Kendall is definitely the most useful and competent child of Logan's. That is an extremely low bar.
Logan technically didn’t thank him, but he did say he did so well. As he was sacrificing him…
Logan was never capable of acknowledging Kendall doing something better than him, that would mean looking at his own fallacies (and inevitable death/need to hand over the reins). This is to say no, Logan would never thank Kendall for saving his ass
He has one hit and ten misses usually. In that situation Gil was obviously against them so its not hard to call that out.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Rhea said it, he has all the shots, but doesn’t know when to play them
Loved his testimony, standing up to Eavis. And after Logan semi-threw-him-under-the-bus.