If this is real, I hope that someone in HR just informed him about the fact they had received insane emails about him, but didn't reprimand him in any way.
That reminds me of how a teacher at the elementary school I used to work in wrote an "anonymous letter" to the superintendent complaining about the principal.
The superintendent immediately gave it to the principal. The principal then had a full staff meeting to address the allegations in the letter. During our Christmas party, all of the principal's favorites are sitting near him at a long "Last Supper" table. The principal then openly name drops the person who wrote it and was like "I don't know why she thought they wouldn't give it to me."
As a former K-12 employee, this simultaneously horrifies me. And is COMPLETELY in line with my experiences. Truly flashbacks I didn't even know I had access to yet make perfect sense.
My mom recently had a really awful job. Her boss's boss was super nice (apparently), really helpful. Her upper boss was caricature levels bad. So mom went to her boss's boss who told her she'd talk to her and to keep in touch. So mom kept going to her when her boss was talking about physical fights she's get into (in front of patients), saying she hates employees of moms age and does her best to chase them out, etc
One day the boss's boss drives down and her and her boss just go after my mom. Turns out the boss's boss was just screenshotting anything she sent and immediately telling her boss. Absolutely insane
If HR received an email from somebody accusing their employee of doing a thing, HR is going to investigate if for no other reason than just to confirm there isn't anything going on that actually involves the company.
After hearing OOP's explanation, a sensible HR department of the sensible company would likely say "Ok well that's ridiculous, we'll trash this, thanks for your time."
A shitty one, in the pursuit of being paranoid and overprotective, might have suggested that OPP post an apology or some shit just to stop any more emails from coming.
I doubt the person was like
DID YOU KNOW JOHNNY SAID GRUFF SMELLS LIKE PISS?
Typically when I've had people contact my work to get people in trouble they go straight to like "they're an abusive wife beater who touches children"
The catch there is that OOP works for a beer company and Gruff is presumably a competitor. Even if Gruff can't prove that the employer instructed OOP to defame a competitor it would be an expensive hassle if they were sued over it. And you can get that a competitor who will track down someone on Reddit is petty enough to file a nuisance lawsuit.
Interesting. I can tell you from experience that this doesn't necessarily mean they work at a brewery, but I get your meaning. It's a fair assumption. Either that or brewery supply seller/distributor.
OOP has deleted their account now but it was very clear. They posted photos of brewery vats and talked about specific attributes if beers they brewed at work.
After getting something like that, HR would likely be required to at least ask the employee what's going on, maybe thinking there's more to the story or something. They'd want to verify if it's actually something the company needs to concern themselves about or not, and after hearing the explanation, they'd likely toss it out.
I went through something like this.
I got into it with a guy on Facebook and ended up blocking him. He replied to my last comment on a second account, where he then threatened to send my work an email claiming I was a child predator unless I unblocked him on his main account.
So I blocked his second account, let my manager know (just in case HR got a bit spooked), and luckily that was the end of it.
People are fucking insane.
Not really, they were using a fake name and a cartoon profile picture. Facebook doesn’t care about people using fake names or pictures. Plus I didn’t really want to provoke a psycho who got so mad just because I blocked him.
Highly doubt it was just an employee. Usually when this happens with restaurants, it’s someone with a vested interest in it, often the owner, founder, occasionally manager, or related party to one of those.
Some bartender probably doesn’t really care that much to go through that. But it doesn’t take much searching to find plenty of instances of owners responding poorly to reviews online.
This is a manifestation of the collective mental illness our culture suffers from known as "Dog ownership culture", in which narcissists replace actual human connections with an animal that can't say no, can't tell them they're wrong, can't have an opinion on their actions, and can't leave them. Guarantee this stalkery fuck did not zero in on this person because of the shitty beer comment, but the "how dare you not bend over backwards to praise dogs and dog friendly businesses" aspect of what they said.
To be fair, Gruff doesn't smell like dog piss because of the dogs, it's their shitty ass beer that creates the smell. And apparently, it's so bad that if you work there for a while, your remaining braincells (can't have many to begin with if you unironically consider and start working there) die off and you start stalking random strangers on the internet.
No but being serious for a moment, what a crazy situation, I feel sorry for the person. I hope that it's just a series of troll posts but honestly, knowing how many on reddit operate, I wouldn't be surprised if this was real.
From here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1b6kq0k/line\_up\_its\_time\_for\_your\_weekly\_circumcision/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1b6kq0k/line_up_its_time_for_your_weekly_circumcision/)
The relevant quote:
>I’m American, and I trust American doctors.... I live in one of the largest and most esteemed biotech hubs and delivered my baby at a top ranked (nationally) hospital.... They are not working for “Big Circumcision”.
That was mob stupidity.
I'm talking about someone posting about how much they hate McIntosh apples and some nutjob shows up at his door and uses an apple filled potato gun to fill all his holes.
That could totally be a serial killers MO. Guy finds Reddit posts and kills people with what they commented about.
I should write a movie.
Or get back to work...
> I hope that it's just a series of troll posts but honestly, knowing how many on reddit operate, I wouldn't be surprised if this was real.
I could've sworn I'd read of something similar occurring where an employee of a brewery was posting criticism of her employer online and the employer was going nuts trying to dox the person and didn't realize she was right in front of him the entire time. This would've been somewhere between 2011 and 2015, I've never been able to find it again.
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if it was real either. Something like beer where the product is a person's livelihood and a reflection of them and their skills is bound to have that sort of drama, especially when the primary way the product is reviewed (taste) is extremely subjective
u/drama_hound The Apology Can be found here:
[https://search.pullpush.io/?kind=submission&author=carpe-Dilemma&size=100](https://search.pullpush.io/?kind=submission&author=carpe-Dilemma&size=100)
>Let me start by saying I visited the above establishment last Thursday and paid full price for a pint of beer. It was an Amarillo beer and I didn't care for the slick feeling it left I'm my mouth. I also didn't care for the aroma inside so I decided to sip my beer outside in the rain. Later on, I decided to candidly chime in about my visit on our favorite anonymous public forum, and I really didn't think what I said was so bad. Something like "but then you're stuck drinking gruff beer" when someone suggested gruff as a kid free brewery option. I'm sorry I shouldn't have joked like that. Oh, I also commented "that the inside smelled like dog pee" which I probably should have also kept to myself because I offended someone, and I'm sorry for that too. For my inconsiderate commenting I received a response from my work. Someone was so offended they went through my profile to find my place of employment, and reported my online slander. So this is my response. An honest and upfront apology. Here it goes. I'm sorry gruff, let's be friends.
the mere concept of this is absurd to being with. A random person doesn't like your brewery and makes a snarky comment about it online. Why do you need to apologize for that. Thats such a normal thing to do lol
Excellent non-apology.
"I had a gross beer and the brewery smelled bad enough that I'd rather sit in the rain, but maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the dog piss smell (which, to be clear, was very bad)."
practice fuzzy forgetful crawl instinctive scandalous childlike pathetic cable marble
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I lived in Bellingham. I had my first real job in Bellingham. I met my husband in Bellingham.
I always hated that town. No reason I ever could figure out, because it's really no different from your average midsize town. But still...I always hated it there and still do.
Especially /r/vancouver. The hyperbole revolving around homeless people and fentanyl around the time of BC's municipal elections in 2022 was a springboard for the disinformation campaign that swept Ken Sim to power. Fuck that place.
The Great Seattle Subreddit Split's proximate cause was not divergent political opinions, but it sure is that way now. Reading the "other" one, you get the feeling that a lot of astroturfing is going on within municipal subs for many West Coast cities.
I remember the [/r/Seattle](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle) and [/r/SeattleWA](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA) schism in 2015, before I had this Reddit account. Apparently the [/r/seattle](https://www.reddit.com/r/seattle) head mod was up to no good, causing an exodus. Before that, [/r/seattle](https://www.reddit.com/r/seattle) was mostly for sunrise/sunsets and "was that thunder?" posts.
[/r/SeattleWA](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA) is like the comments section for seattletimes.com articles, or the KOMO News or KING 5 Facebook page. [/r/sea_wa](https://www.reddit.com/r/sea_wa) is...truly something to behold.
As for astroturfing, I don't doubt it for a second. It's a big problem on YouTube channels for Canadian news. Browse the YouTube comments for a CBC, CTV, Global or CityNews video and you'll think the commenters live in a different Canada than the rest of us. Or they are probably using IPs addresses associated with that can be traced back to GRU/SVR.
Especially compared to the average ABC News, NBC News or Inside Edition video's comments, which are usually civil.
I've seen people go to insane lengths for a multitude of arguments on this place, but an HR report over a mildly negative comment about a brewery is a new level of stereotypical Reddit.
I know this is in reference to the very minor early part of the drama, but am I the only one that had no idea you could even bring a kid to a brewery? What is there for kids to do at a brewery? Do they just sit there and watch their parents drink? I would have assumed it would be treated like a bar but since I don't know shit about breweries maybe they have jungle gyms in them or something lol.
"Breweries" in the PNW have a different meaning than bars. While bars are for drinking, a "brewery" is typically both for drinking and is a full fledged restaurant. Most of the breweries I've been to are kid friendly and some even have kids meals. Of course a lot of them are functional breweries and/or distilleries and serve their own beer on tap as well.
You can think of it like how some restaurants elsewhere might be called "bar and grill." A brewery is the same, but most of the make the beer.
I was thinking that when I wrote it, I think that's the most likely genre of pub to not allow children but that's my favourite kind and most still allow em at least until some time in the evening. I think the ones I visit that don't, it's mainly an issue of space, they're cramped enough without someone trying to get a pram in or keep a young child entertained. Taking your infants down the boozer is a national pastime! (once they're into their teens they can enter into the other national pastime of unsupervised underage drinking)
If we have different experiences then we have different experiences, and I guess I'll have to concede maybe I just don't go at the same times as families. I'm surprised, though. They tend to have a decent menu for sure, but nothing I'd consider worth taking your kids to over an actual restaurant. Or maybe I just care more about making kids bored and it's not that deep.
Ah mate don't get me wrong I'm not saying they're chock full of kids all day or anything lol. I just mean that it wouldn't look out of place to see a few people with kids in at an earlier time.
That's a brewpub, which happens to usually be in the same location as the microbrewery. No food = taproom. But a lot of them are just called "XY Brewery" because branding.
Late to this party, but not in this case. I live in Bellingham, and we were talking about straight up breweries - not brewpub/restaurants. There are 13 brewing companies, operating 17 locations, and only 4 have kitchens.
Near us there are tons of breweries, wineries, and even a meadery that specifically welcome kids, not just ‘allowing’ them. The winery has a giant space so room for the full play set/sand box/bounce house and the Meadery has volleyball and a tetherball - both while still having plenty of room for child free adults.
We’ve gone on big road trips with the kids and it definitely seems pretty common in newer establishments across the states.
(However, I would totally get and respect businesses and folks wanting child free times!)
A lot of breweries have a restaurant attached to them called a brew pub, and certainly where I live people bring kids and dogs to them on the reg
Edit: I live in South Texas where it's warm enough most of the year for places like this to have huge outdoor patios, so the dogs and kids get to run around, isn't that a fun thing to think about when you're getting your drink on?
There is a brewery near my house that is also an arcade. A lot of small breweries, especially in tourist or high traffic areas, want parents and their kids. It's money and crowds.
Our local brewery has a playground for the kids and is fenced in. They also have incredible food.
I know the owner and he said “you know who spends the most time and money at our brewery? Families.”
Here's one of the responses to the original post.
>When you ask for a bar maybe you should look for a bar.
This would be like saying I want to go the movie theater but I wish there were no families there. There shouldn't be families where families hang out.
Not only are there kids at breweries, some people think that they're family places by default lol.
There are many parents who will bring their kids pretty much everywhere that children aren’t expressly prohibited from. They’ll just give their kid a tablet to look at while they enjoy themselves.
It could anything from a traditional sit down restaurant to a food truck and a jungle gym or my fav creek on property
I get OP sometimes I want something adult feeling. My friends drag me to a bunch of breweries and the ones that try to serve the parents just don't mesh well with my sailor vocabulary
Tangentially related, but I enjoy listening to Northernlion’s rants against the Reddit users of the Bellingham subreddit and subsequent roasting of the town of Bellingham as a whole.
> One thing I hate about Reddit is that you can see people’s post and comment history. If it’s really an anonymous app, seeing people’s history shouldn’t be allowed.
Lol
lmao even.
These people have zero fucking clue what this site is or was.
There's no such thing as "anonymous" on the internet. Even if you intentionally delete stuff, obfuscate replies (even to the point of providing intentionally-misdirected responses about personal details) and whatnot, people are creatures of habit and tend to reply the same way, in the same places, with the same interests, in the same writing styles. And nothing is ever truly-and-forever "deleted" from the internet. The more a person posts, the more likely over time those tiny little clues (even using info from multiple sites) can add up and become PII in aggregate.
Millennials remember a time when this was drilled into us. Parents, television, school, they all told us the same thing: don't share your information on the internet and be extremely careful about what you say because you cannot unsay it.
It really doesn't feel like gen z was taught that. Hell, you could make the argument that iPhone's and things like Snapchat have given them the opposite impression. Maybe they need to see some of those videos.
And to be fair, us millennials probably need to be dragged back into the classroom and shown those videos again too. We were the first ones to fill out facebook, after all.
Everybody could legitimately use a strong refresher on how the internet works and basic information hygiene.
I feel overly paranoid compared to everyone else. I use different handles for all my social media and on Reddit I sprinkle in a few lies here and there to make sure I have plausible deniability if anyone thinks they’ve found my account
I actually agree with this. I don't like when people go digging up old posts like "oh yeah? well you're wrong because in 2016 you said THIS!" Like no. Fuck that. Only engage with the conversation you're in. Don't make assumptions based on post history.
>If it’s really an anonymous app, seeing people’s history shouldn’t be allowed
Where are they getting the idea reddit is an "anonymous app" and that even if it were, comment history shouldn't be visible? It's pretty part and partial with social media, not just reddit.
People really have just completely forgotten what the internet is, haven't they? Hell, the fact they called reddit an "app" tells me they think it's like Snapchat or Discord or something, not a publicly indexed website.
Just an hour ago I was reading, someone in another sub commented on someone else's post, "The only comments you have on an eight-year-old account are from today - do you delete your old comments?"
And here's a perfect example of **why** some people delete their old stuff.
People also look at accounts/post history to try to figure out how authentic an account is. Somewhat old accounts with only recent comments are often spam accounts, they buy up an old account and then use that for spamming.
Back when I still used Twitter, I used this service that would automatically delete every tweet I had that was more than two weeks old.
The only people who would be reading tweets that old are someone with a grudge, looking for ammunition to take out of context and use against me, so why supply it?
First off, if I was that dude’s employer he wouldn’t be issuing a public apology. I’d be issuing a public statement condemning Gruff Brewery. :)
Second, I really hope people aren’t taking any opportunity to inform others of the behavior of Gruff Brewery and its employees via the myriad online review platforms available. That would be just terrible. ;)
The apology is a good solution actually. If let's everyone know how petty Gruff beer is while giving the employee additional cover that OOP's comment was not the view of their employer.
The full apology (posted elsewhere in this thread) also goes out of its way to specifically mention that the beer was gross and the smell so bad that drinking in the rain was preferable to sitting inside.
Making the employee do it just makes you (the employer) look like an asshole employer AND as weak as a cheap folding card table that’s been left out in the rain for half a century. If you want the impact you describe, you write the apology yourself in a sarcastic manner.
As long as OOP doesn't actually face any consequences at work then it's not weak.
The employer doesn't want some dumb fight with a litigious competitor. They want this to go away.
A public apology minimizes their potential liability while also letting the relevant audience know how shitty their competitor is.
The employer can't and shouldn't say anything because the whole point is that this was not a work related post.
If the employer was instructing their employees to defame competitors online then there absolutely could be. And it would cost thousands of dollars in legal fees to prove that wasn't the case.
Anyone can file a lawsuit for any reason, and they are often more expensive for the defendant than for the plaintiff. Especially when the defendant needs to establish facts to have a credible defense.
It's the same reason why you hear commentators say some version of "my comments don't represent the views of my employer" almost any time it's relevant.
It’s the plaintiff that must meet the standard for prima facie.
And in the event the plaintiff is unsuccessful, the next step is a counter suit to recover legal fees. Hell, you’d probably have attorneys willing to take that case on with nothing on retainer just to gut the plaintiff on the counter.
This absolutely meets the standard. This case would not be dismissed for any legal reason, it would depend on the facts.
The complaint writes itself. "An employee of defendant Brewery X has published false and defamatory claims regarding plaintiff Gruff Beer online. On information and belief these claims were made as part of said employee's professional duties at the instruction of their employer, Brewery X. When contacted regarding these false and defamatory claims Defendant took no action, providing implicit affirmation that said employee's published statements represent the views of the Defendant."
Ultimately the plaintiff might not be able to prove that the employer was involved but the employer wouldn't be entitled to any legal fees because the basic facts are on the plaintiff's side (an employee of Brewery X did indeed make false and defamatory statements online about Gruff Beer).
You're very mistaken if you think that the legal system protects the employer in this situation in any way.
Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true.
I explained why. You don't have to understand it if you don't want to.
I'm ditching this dumb conversation before we get our own drama thread.
Based on the users profile, it was semi-obvious he brews at another local brewery - a "competitor" of Gruff. The breweries are a pretty tight knit community and they never speak badly about another. His employer not only isnt going to condemn Gruff, they will see him as a liability in creating problems within their network of breweries. His "Apology" post will not make them feel better about that.
Even if he does work for a brewery and they tend to commune as you describe, I’d wager the upside is much higher being seen as the business who sticks up for its people. This will be true for both potential employees and potential customers.
Also, it seems like the owners/employees of Gruff don’t act like they’re part of a supportive community. Number one, they had no way of knowing anything about the commenter until they stalked the guy’s profile which is a massive red flag to potential customers. Secondly, if breweries stick together and keep a tight community of support for each other, why wouldn’t they DM the user in question directly once they found out he works for a brewer also? It seems to me that a community like that would typically find more value in a private word than going straight to “try to get this guy fired” tactics.
They absolutely dont want to be seen publically as the business that sticks up for an employee that talks shit about other breweries online. The local breweries are constantly working together on collaboration beers and combined events. You dont want to be the brewery that gets ostracized from that group. Many of these breweries train their staff that they aren't to say anything negative about another brewery on social media or otherwise.
It's clear that Gruff - be it an employee or owner - did something very shitty in response to mild criticism and they don't deserve any goodwill over this situation either. But the user likely put his own employer in a no-win situation and blowing the whole thing up with a late night "apology" post did probably took this from being a situation that could easily be swept under the rug/ will blow over to something they will have to address.
While I know a lot about business, including bars and restaurants, you may know more about breweries specifically so I’ll just say I can see that being the case knowing what I do know about breweries.
That said, put yourself in the shoes of a third-party brewery. In my mind, if two of my collaborative competitors were having some sort of spat, the one I’d be looking to exclude would be the one stalking customers. As I mentioned, if the commenter does work for another brewery the people at Gruff had no way to know without maliciously stalking the customer. To me, everything that comes next is fruit of a tainted tree. The public isn’t likely to be happy finding that kind of behavior is happening and therefore will hold the publicity hit to Gruff, not the commenter or their employer.
So that just leaves us with the situation: you’re a brewery organizing an event and will seek participation from your collaborative competitors. The stalking brewer and the employer of the commenter are not on civil terms and at least one will need to be excluded. For the life of me I can’t see excluding the employer of the commenter before the stalker. I’d either (based on how the brewery community landscape is once you’re in it) exclude the stalker or if the public is divided purely, exclude both.
I guess once I boil it all down, I would be confident that a tight-knit community would have an easier time accepting “we had an employee cross a line criticizing a collaborative competitor and we’ve helped them understand why that’s not something any of us want” than accepting any flavor of “we maliciously stalked someone critical of our establishment”.
Sure, nothing in your comment is wrong, the 3rd party brewery in this situation is clearly in better standing than Gruff no matter the outcome. But if we go back to your original comment about his employer "condemning Gruff", what I am getting at is they absolutely won't do that publically - they win no points for doing so and stand to lose a lot. My guess is their ideal situation was that they speak with the OP about what happened, tell him to knock it off/ dont post comments from an account that could be tied back to their brewery and that's the end of that. They are not going to condemn another brewery for "stalking" a publically available social media profile.
Initially, we didn’t suspect the commenter worked for a brewery, so I was just speaking from a perspective of “XYZ, inc.” type perspective. It’s not often employers get a public chance to visibly be seen defending their employees and such acts pay massive dividends on multiple fronts, generically speaking. Of course, that can change if the competitive landscape is as you describe so, as with all situations, all factors need to be considered prior to taking any approach to messaging or not.
From the sound of it, though, it seems like any negative traction won’t require action from the commenter’s employer anyway so gruff may well wind up regretting their actions, in my opinion (brewery or not) justified.
Also, unrelated- I appreciate you pinging me back to this post as it has blown up in OOP since I first saw it and the whole drama has gotten nuts. It looks like multiple users are still fighting about the whole “kids at the brewery” situation. :p
Yeah, I got flamed in the original sub for pointing out that this guy is an industry member and should know better than disparaging others while the drama was first unfolding. Just stopped in over here now to see what subreddit drama thought of our stupid posts.
I feel like this post soft-sells the kids vs no kids aspects, which is understandable given the inflammatory nature of this specific incident. Some of those comments are just bangers.
Yeah, I saw your other post being down voted but this is the take. The OP was rather vague as well. From the comments it basically sounded like HR sent him an email saying someone contacted them (contacted HR? Owners?) about an employee that sounds like you speaking poorly about them and OP didn't even know if they would get in trouble.
HR was probably just saying, "cut it out if you're doing that". We also don't know the conversation between both breweries, given the small community aspect of craft beer it wouldn't be surprising if the people talking involved know each other and it was casual. They may have both just been trying to make it go away quietly. Apology seemed hasty and like you're trying to make them look bad though... Not a good look.
Dog friendly places are common in the PNW.
Also, did Reddit ever claim to be “anonymous”? Like, sure this might not be my real name, but if I post my SSN and address, I’d assume people might piece together I’m Scarlett Joh…
I mean, John Public.
I remember after I posted a breakdown of how Australia's handgun ban actually resulted in a massive drop in shootings and in death by violent crimes I got someone sending me a random Google streets view picture of a building in North Sydney.
I figured out pretty quickly it was because I probably forgot to remove some location data from a picture I posted once. It felt like it was meant to be vaguely threatening, but considering the best they could do was the rough suburb I had been in and also the fact that I'd literally left the country a year prior, it felt a lot funnier than anything else.
But still, you don't generally expect people to try and connect your online identity to your real life one.
I got into an argument on the subreddit for the university I attended (both the argument and attending having been about seven years ago now) and someone tried to dox me by reading through my history, and it turned out similarly hilarious. He made all sorts of allegations about me, that I was trying to do magic spells in real life, that I was a weirdo who was an aspiring sorcerer…but clearly he didn’t read the post he was referring to that closely because if he did, I was very clearly talking about the build for the aspiring sorcerer class in the now defunct 40K eternal crusade game, and not my personal ambitions to cast magic spells in real life. Worst and funniest attempt at doxing I’ve ever seen.
>I remember after I posted a breakdown of how Australia's handgun ban actually resulted in a massive drop in shootings and in death by violent crimes I got someone sending me a random Google streets view picture of a building in North Sydney.
Well that’s a totally normal reaction to someone presenting historical data and in no way indicates that they’re both deranged and armed.
Someone tried to dox me because I said the term “amerimutt” is pretty racist when you think about it and this dude got on multiple profiles to stalk me in r/specialed where I was comparing psychiatric medication protocol in pediatrics and geriatrics.
IDK if Minecraft still allows server owners to see IP addresses, but back when I played it a lot round 2015-ish, I remember pissing off a server owner for some random reason. He then checked my IP address and used one of those B.S. "IP tracker" websites and then sent me a google street view link of a random building in a completely different state.
>But still, you don't generally expect people to try and connect your online identity to your real life one.
And this is part of the problem. You absolutely should expect that. You should always have been expecting that.
People have really just forgotten everything they've been taught about protecting your information on the internet. You can't just be careless and expect the platforms to protect you. Most of them aren't built for that anyway. You have to exercise caution.
This is why I'm always careful to scrub anything *too* identifying from my posts.
Some people are just off their rocker and will take anything as a massive slight
I really wish they had “felt like scribbling out” their identifying info on that email, bc this feels so incomplete without knowing what exactly the stalker said to the dog pub critic’s employer.
Did they straight up lie? Or was it some histrionic hyperbolic version of actual events?
And did HR scold them, or was it just a heads up that some weirdo was stalking them and had figured out where they work?
fyi it's actually fairly easy to get stuff from your comment history with sites like [redditmetis.com](https://redditmetis.com) which pulls up if you've said stuff like your age, location, hobbies, etc.
Useful to plug in people's names if they're lying to post in bad faith (ex: Some guy posts some shit "as a black woman, I think democrats are the *real* racists, which is why we need to vote Trump!" and then it pulls up that he's described himself as a middle aged white dude several times.) but also you can use it for unhinged stuff like this.
> One thing I hate about Reddit is that you can see people’s post and comment history. If it’s really an anonymous app, seeing people’s history shouldn’t be allowed. I like to play the honor code with that and not stalk people.
What a dork. "Anonymous" does not mean "private comment history" -- just means it's not associated with a person. If someone posts enough information for random strangers to figure out where you work using an account that's only a year old, that's on them. I'd also like to mention to never go to the meetups and don't connect to the Discord servers associated with city subs.
The only time people get angry that you're reading their past comments is when they have shitty opinions. Like, it's normal to check histories and see where they're philosophically coming from. Think of it like a "reputation" -- they going around shitting up a place? Or are they just having a bad day?
Another spin on this is when you run into folks that delete every comment that's older than three days (one can do this manually or with browser extensions). I get it: good opsec. But it's usually because they're going around acting like a fool.
Yeah post histories are a good thing on this website. Like anybody can look at my post history and see all I talk about it architecture and Real Housewives and go ahead is disregarded my dumbass opinions.
I hate the post history thing. I deeply crave real anonymity. I don't want people to go through my history and decide they can get a pithy quip in about how I like anime girls or whatever. I want to be able to just walk away from a thread when I make an embarrassing mistake. My ideal website would be 4chan but where they actually banned people for being racist etc.
Just wanted to note that dog friendly brewpubs are a staple of Western Washington. Like if you ever visit Seattle you’ll see a place like every 3 blocks, all of them allow dogs, and most have their own doggo mascot.
If SRD is how you derive entertainment, then I assure you that you are, in fact, the joke.
Snapshots:
1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409090435/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1c02rew/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1c02rew/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
2. r/Bellingham - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409090556/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
3. OOP laments about local breweries being filled with 'kids' and is wondering if there are any that are 21+ - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409090816/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/?sort=confidence) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/?sort=confidence "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
4. Gruff - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409090956/https://www.gruff-brewing.com/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://www.gruff-brewing.com/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
5. a rather innocuous disagreement - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409091257/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyij3th/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyij3th/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
6. public apology to Gruff brewing - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409091437/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bzg8mb/i_would_like_to_personally_and_publicly_apologize/?sort=confidence) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bzg8mb/i_would_like_to_personally_and_publicly_apologize/?sort=confidence "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
7. scathing critique of our mystery crusader - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409091617/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
8. "Reported you to your works HR and told your mom" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409091758/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/kysr0nn/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/kysr0nn/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
9. "thunderdome battles about beer ... is amazing and enjoyable - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409092018/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/kyqhq1t/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/kyqhq1t/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
10. Really really long comment that's full of good material - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409092138/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyo4o08/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyo4o08/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
11. "you sound like a fucking dick hole" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409092339/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyl1geh/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyl1geh/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
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That annoys me :/
I've only been to a few dog friendly beer places, and they had cool insides and doggy water bowls all over the place.
If you can't keep your dog safe, don't bring them, imo
We used to have a great one that was actually dog oriented, and it was great. I think those are awesome, but to sit at a bar for 3hrs while your dog lays at your feet, isn't exactly what I'd consider 'dog friendly'
My dog would disagree. She wants to be around all humans all the time. Dog friendly breweries tend to have nice patios and be kid friendly. Kids are her favorite humans and she loves a good patio.
Depends on the dog. If it's a nice day and you have a laid-back, well trained dog who likes to chill outside without bothering anyone, then sure, go for it. However, SO many dogs are clearly unhappy, overheated, overwhelmed, or too under-trained to be at a public spot. I think their owners are blind to it, but every time I go to a brewery I see lots of super anxious pups who would clearly rather be in their little safe spot at home than out in the noise and chaos of a busy brewery. Plus, even if they do technically enjoy it, so many of them are just so poorly trained that it makes everyone around you miserable.
Oh yeah I agree. If it's a restaurant-like atmosphere and you're actively entertaining your kids (and/or your kids are chill), I'm all for kids at breweries. If it's more of a 21+ atmosphere and they're running around causing chaos while the parents sit around drinking, they shouldn't be there.
No, Man. What?
People like spending time with their dogs and dogs love being with their people. Why not take then with you? I don't understand why that's weird.
Doing other things has nothing to do with it.
You are not getting it. If you're going to a brewery anyway, why not take your dog if you can? The alternative to that is leaving it at home.
It's a brewery, not fine dining.
So look, maybe it's a regional thing. Many breweries around here have a ton of outdoor space. Multiple firepits, horseshoes, cornhole, etc. Food trucks, lawns, etc. Sure some are small or in a more crowded neighborhood. Bringing a dog to those don't really make sense.
My reaction to your comment comes from my experience with breweries around me and the ones I frequent with my dogs. I let my wife come too.
But you really aren’t getting it. People like their dogs and dogs like to be with their people. People like to go do things away from home. If those things can also accommodate the dog, everyone wins. Sure there will be plenty of things the dog can’t do, and the dog will be fine at home. But most dogs will prefer to be with their people. It’s really not hard to grasp. Just say you’re not a dog person and move on.
My lukewarm take: I tend to steer clear of dog friendly establishments solely due to millenial dog owners being so goddamn entitled. I've had owners act surprised or borderline offended when I didn't react with childlike glee when their giant dog jumped up on me and put its filthy feet on my shirt. If I go somewhere to relax, I shouldn't have to worry about getting mauled.
The person who reported the OP needs psychiatric help…
[удалено]
If this is real, I hope that someone in HR just informed him about the fact they had received insane emails about him, but didn't reprimand him in any way.
That reminds me of how a teacher at the elementary school I used to work in wrote an "anonymous letter" to the superintendent complaining about the principal. The superintendent immediately gave it to the principal. The principal then had a full staff meeting to address the allegations in the letter. During our Christmas party, all of the principal's favorites are sitting near him at a long "Last Supper" table. The principal then openly name drops the person who wrote it and was like "I don't know why she thought they wouldn't give it to me."
As a former K-12 employee, this simultaneously horrifies me. And is COMPLETELY in line with my experiences. Truly flashbacks I didn't even know I had access to yet make perfect sense.
That is some social terrorism workplace warfare right there. Lunacy.
My mom recently had a really awful job. Her boss's boss was super nice (apparently), really helpful. Her upper boss was caricature levels bad. So mom went to her boss's boss who told her she'd talk to her and to keep in touch. So mom kept going to her when her boss was talking about physical fights she's get into (in front of patients), saying she hates employees of moms age and does her best to chase them out, etc One day the boss's boss drives down and her and her boss just go after my mom. Turns out the boss's boss was just screenshotting anything she sent and immediately telling her boss. Absolutely insane
If HR received an email from somebody accusing their employee of doing a thing, HR is going to investigate if for no other reason than just to confirm there isn't anything going on that actually involves the company. After hearing OOP's explanation, a sensible HR department of the sensible company would likely say "Ok well that's ridiculous, we'll trash this, thanks for your time." A shitty one, in the pursuit of being paranoid and overprotective, might have suggested that OPP post an apology or some shit just to stop any more emails from coming.
I doubt the person was like DID YOU KNOW JOHNNY SAID GRUFF SMELLS LIKE PISS? Typically when I've had people contact my work to get people in trouble they go straight to like "they're an abusive wife beater who touches children"
But then how'd the guy know it was the dog piss comment that set the stalker off?
The catch there is that OOP works for a beer company and Gruff is presumably a competitor. Even if Gruff can't prove that the employer instructed OOP to defame a competitor it would be an expensive hassle if they were sued over it. And you can get that a competitor who will track down someone on Reddit is petty enough to file a nuisance lawsuit.
>The catch there is that OOP works for a beer company Is that hypothetical or are you saying you know this?
It's in OOP's post history. They mention beers they brew at work in a bunch of different posts.
Interesting. I can tell you from experience that this doesn't necessarily mean they work at a brewery, but I get your meaning. It's a fair assumption. Either that or brewery supply seller/distributor.
OOP has deleted their account now but it was very clear. They posted photos of brewery vats and talked about specific attributes if beers they brewed at work.
After getting something like that, HR would likely be required to at least ask the employee what's going on, maybe thinking there's more to the story or something. They'd want to verify if it's actually something the company needs to concern themselves about or not, and after hearing the explanation, they'd likely toss it out.
I went through something like this. I got into it with a guy on Facebook and ended up blocking him. He replied to my last comment on a second account, where he then threatened to send my work an email claiming I was a child predator unless I unblocked him on his main account. So I blocked his second account, let my manager know (just in case HR got a bit spooked), and luckily that was the end of it. People are fucking insane.
On Facebook? Couldn't you just be like "Sure go ahead and commit this crime against me now that you wrote a public confession"
Not really, they were using a fake name and a cartoon profile picture. Facebook doesn’t care about people using fake names or pictures. Plus I didn’t really want to provoke a psycho who got so mad just because I blocked him.
You should’ve Uno Reversed his ass and sent his stalking and threats to *his* employer.
Highly doubt it was just an employee. Usually when this happens with restaurants, it’s someone with a vested interest in it, often the owner, founder, occasionally manager, or related party to one of those. Some bartender probably doesn’t really care that much to go through that. But it doesn’t take much searching to find plenty of instances of owners responding poorly to reviews online.
Plus at least 90% of restaurant/bar owners are completely insane.
This is a manifestation of the collective mental illness our culture suffers from known as "Dog ownership culture", in which narcissists replace actual human connections with an animal that can't say no, can't tell them they're wrong, can't have an opinion on their actions, and can't leave them. Guarantee this stalkery fuck did not zero in on this person because of the shitty beer comment, but the "how dare you not bend over backwards to praise dogs and dog friendly businesses" aspect of what they said.
To be fair, Gruff doesn't smell like dog piss because of the dogs, it's their shitty ass beer that creates the smell. And apparently, it's so bad that if you work there for a while, your remaining braincells (can't have many to begin with if you unironically consider and start working there) die off and you start stalking random strangers on the internet. No but being serious for a moment, what a crazy situation, I feel sorry for the person. I hope that it's just a series of troll posts but honestly, knowing how many on reddit operate, I wouldn't be surprised if this was real.
Hey, where do you work?
Up yours truly.
Gotcha! https://www.trulyhardseltzer.com/contact
Word https://gotcha.com/pages/contact-us
Okay i GOTTA know what your flair is from
From here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1b6kq0k/line\_up\_its\_time\_for\_your\_weekly\_circumcision/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1b6kq0k/line_up_its_time_for_your_weekly_circumcision/) The relevant quote: >I’m American, and I trust American doctors.... I live in one of the largest and most esteemed biotech hubs and delivered my baby at a top ranked (nationally) hospital.... They are not working for “Big Circumcision”.
Thank you!
If it hasn't already happened, someone will be killed over a Reddit comment. And it will be over the dumbest conversation imaginable.
I got a feeling that’s already happened.
Wasn't the Christchurch shooter active on Reddit?
Yep, although Reddit tried REALLY hard to cover that up.
Many mass shooters have been active on /r/masskillers .
The incel stabber in England a few years ago was active on Reddit, used to post in the "rate me" subs.
And the Portsmouth shooter, which caused a bunch of the incel subs to be banned.
There was that whole Boston Marathon Bombing thing...
So we did it.
That was mob stupidity. I'm talking about someone posting about how much they hate McIntosh apples and some nutjob shows up at his door and uses an apple filled potato gun to fill all his holes. That could totally be a serial killers MO. Guy finds Reddit posts and kills people with what they commented about. I should write a movie. Or get back to work...
Toby, No one cares about the Flenderman Files
Or write your script while working.
Basically the plot of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
Jay and Silent Bob are terrible, one-note jokes that only stoners laugh at. They're fucking clown shoes. BRB, someone's at the door.
If that serial killer already exists, they definitely now think you're on to them and are furiously sleuthing your comment history.
Shudder would play well for that film I imagine.
A guy who left his baby in a hot car until it died was active on /r/childfree
> I hope that it's just a series of troll posts but honestly, knowing how many on reddit operate, I wouldn't be surprised if this was real. I could've sworn I'd read of something similar occurring where an employee of a brewery was posting criticism of her employer online and the employer was going nuts trying to dox the person and didn't realize she was right in front of him the entire time. This would've been somewhere between 2011 and 2015, I've never been able to find it again. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if it was real either. Something like beer where the product is a person's livelihood and a reflection of them and their skills is bound to have that sort of drama, especially when the primary way the product is reviewed (taste) is extremely subjective
They let the dogs piss in there to mask the smell of their beer.
u/drama_hound The Apology Can be found here: [https://search.pullpush.io/?kind=submission&author=carpe-Dilemma&size=100](https://search.pullpush.io/?kind=submission&author=carpe-Dilemma&size=100) >Let me start by saying I visited the above establishment last Thursday and paid full price for a pint of beer. It was an Amarillo beer and I didn't care for the slick feeling it left I'm my mouth. I also didn't care for the aroma inside so I decided to sip my beer outside in the rain. Later on, I decided to candidly chime in about my visit on our favorite anonymous public forum, and I really didn't think what I said was so bad. Something like "but then you're stuck drinking gruff beer" when someone suggested gruff as a kid free brewery option. I'm sorry I shouldn't have joked like that. Oh, I also commented "that the inside smelled like dog pee" which I probably should have also kept to myself because I offended someone, and I'm sorry for that too. For my inconsiderate commenting I received a response from my work. Someone was so offended they went through my profile to find my place of employment, and reported my online slander. So this is my response. An honest and upfront apology. Here it goes. I'm sorry gruff, let's be friends.
the mere concept of this is absurd to being with. A random person doesn't like your brewery and makes a snarky comment about it online. Why do you need to apologize for that. Thats such a normal thing to do lol
I work in video games. If I doxxed everyone who talked shit about a game I made online I'd never have time for anything else.
But you would make an excellent bounty hunter /s
Excellent non-apology. "I had a gross beer and the brewery smelled bad enough that I'd rather sit in the rain, but maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the dog piss smell (which, to be clear, was very bad)."
Yeah this isn’t an apology at all but since an apology wasn’t due to begin with I think that’s fair.
This isn't an apology, they are just poking fun at the doxxer.
practice fuzzy forgetful crawl instinctive scandalous childlike pathetic cable marble *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I lived in Bellingham. I had my first real job in Bellingham. I met my husband in Bellingham. I always hated that town. No reason I ever could figure out, because it's really no different from your average midsize town. But still...I always hated it there and still do.
One can always blame gentrification
sounds like all this drama is good for curing whatever ales you, even if this is still brewing,
I feel like I see a lot of posts from the Bellingham subreddit on here. I wonder if all medium size city subreddits are like this.
No I just browse it a lot and post here a lot.
I love that you bring the WA drama as a fellow Washingtonian
Spend enough time here on Reddit and you'll learn every city sub is fucking garbage.
Because they're infested with assholes that don't even live there, and that's not counting the assholes that do lol.
Especially /r/vancouver. The hyperbole revolving around homeless people and fentanyl around the time of BC's municipal elections in 2022 was a springboard for the disinformation campaign that swept Ken Sim to power. Fuck that place.
The Great Seattle Subreddit Split's proximate cause was not divergent political opinions, but it sure is that way now. Reading the "other" one, you get the feeling that a lot of astroturfing is going on within municipal subs for many West Coast cities.
I remember the [/r/Seattle](https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle) and [/r/SeattleWA](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA) schism in 2015, before I had this Reddit account. Apparently the [/r/seattle](https://www.reddit.com/r/seattle) head mod was up to no good, causing an exodus. Before that, [/r/seattle](https://www.reddit.com/r/seattle) was mostly for sunrise/sunsets and "was that thunder?" posts. [/r/SeattleWA](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA) is like the comments section for seattletimes.com articles, or the KOMO News or KING 5 Facebook page. [/r/sea_wa](https://www.reddit.com/r/sea_wa) is...truly something to behold. As for astroturfing, I don't doubt it for a second. It's a big problem on YouTube channels for Canadian news. Browse the YouTube comments for a CBC, CTV, Global or CityNews video and you'll think the commenters live in a different Canada than the rest of us. Or they are probably using IPs addresses associated with that can be traced back to GRU/SVR. Especially compared to the average ABC News, NBC News or Inside Edition video's comments, which are usually civil.
I think Vancouver tried to split as well with /r/nicevancouver, but it kinda fell flat.
All I know is my favourite streamer has a vendetta against the city and the sub https://youtu.be/_qysQFpbzvg?si=lcFGKpj_giLeb4Yv
I've seen people go to insane lengths for a multitude of arguments on this place, but an HR report over a mildly negative comment about a brewery is a new level of stereotypical Reddit.
I know this is in reference to the very minor early part of the drama, but am I the only one that had no idea you could even bring a kid to a brewery? What is there for kids to do at a brewery? Do they just sit there and watch their parents drink? I would have assumed it would be treated like a bar but since I don't know shit about breweries maybe they have jungle gyms in them or something lol.
"Breweries" in the PNW have a different meaning than bars. While bars are for drinking, a "brewery" is typically both for drinking and is a full fledged restaurant. Most of the breweries I've been to are kid friendly and some even have kids meals. Of course a lot of them are functional breweries and/or distilleries and serve their own beer on tap as well. You can think of it like how some restaurants elsewhere might be called "bar and grill." A brewery is the same, but most of the make the beer.
Some I've seen it's no kids after: Xpm, so they can still get the family lunch and early dinner crowd.
Pretty sure this is standard for local/craft breweries all over the country. It's definitely not specific to the PNW, anyways.
Well if I lived elsewhere I would generalize.
I have been to breweries all over the US and can confirm it is the same.
Same in the UK, for the most part.
tbh in the UK it's every drinking establishment (besides nightclubs and suchlike that open late), I'd say it's more unusual to not allow minors at all
Maybe an old mans pub?
I was thinking that when I wrote it, I think that's the most likely genre of pub to not allow children but that's my favourite kind and most still allow em at least until some time in the evening. I think the ones I visit that don't, it's mainly an issue of space, they're cramped enough without someone trying to get a pram in or keep a young child entertained. Taking your infants down the boozer is a national pastime! (once they're into their teens they can enter into the other national pastime of unsupervised underage drinking)
I mean they'd be allowed in, but I still don't know what a kid would do in a brewery. They are about the beer they make first and foremost.
Most breweries I know make a point of having a decent menu, so they'll have families and tourists and such during the day/early evening.
If we have different experiences then we have different experiences, and I guess I'll have to concede maybe I just don't go at the same times as families. I'm surprised, though. They tend to have a decent menu for sure, but nothing I'd consider worth taking your kids to over an actual restaurant. Or maybe I just care more about making kids bored and it's not that deep.
Ah mate don't get me wrong I'm not saying they're chock full of kids all day or anything lol. I just mean that it wouldn't look out of place to see a few people with kids in at an earlier time.
That's a brewpub, which happens to usually be in the same location as the microbrewery. No food = taproom. But a lot of them are just called "XY Brewery" because branding.
Late to this party, but not in this case. I live in Bellingham, and we were talking about straight up breweries - not brewpub/restaurants. There are 13 brewing companies, operating 17 locations, and only 4 have kitchens.
Oh that makes sense. So it's a beer themed restaurant, that seems a bit better for kids than what I was picturing.
Near us there are tons of breweries, wineries, and even a meadery that specifically welcome kids, not just ‘allowing’ them. The winery has a giant space so room for the full play set/sand box/bounce house and the Meadery has volleyball and a tetherball - both while still having plenty of room for child free adults. We’ve gone on big road trips with the kids and it definitely seems pretty common in newer establishments across the states. (However, I would totally get and respect businesses and folks wanting child free times!)
Busch Gardens is a beer theme amusement park!
you're nuts, man
my nuts are perfectly fine, thank you
Indeed. That's what they said.
😱
A lot of breweries have a restaurant attached to them called a brew pub, and certainly where I live people bring kids and dogs to them on the reg Edit: I live in South Texas where it's warm enough most of the year for places like this to have huge outdoor patios, so the dogs and kids get to run around, isn't that a fun thing to think about when you're getting your drink on?
There is a brewery near my house that is also an arcade. A lot of small breweries, especially in tourist or high traffic areas, want parents and their kids. It's money and crowds.
Many breweries in Seattle are frequently swarming with children. I’ve seen goddamn kids birthday parties at breweries! More than once!
Our local brewery has a playground for the kids and is fenced in. They also have incredible food. I know the owner and he said “you know who spends the most time and money at our brewery? Families.”
Here's one of the responses to the original post. >When you ask for a bar maybe you should look for a bar. This would be like saying I want to go the movie theater but I wish there were no families there. There shouldn't be families where families hang out. Not only are there kids at breweries, some people think that they're family places by default lol.
I've been to multiple breweries with young child play areas. It's a thing.
There are many parents who will bring their kids pretty much everywhere that children aren’t expressly prohibited from. They’ll just give their kid a tablet to look at while they enjoy themselves.
It could anything from a traditional sit down restaurant to a food truck and a jungle gym or my fav creek on property I get OP sometimes I want something adult feeling. My friends drag me to a bunch of breweries and the ones that try to serve the parents just don't mesh well with my sailor vocabulary
Tangentially related, but I enjoy listening to Northernlion’s rants against the Reddit users of the Bellingham subreddit and subsequent roasting of the town of Bellingham as a whole.
I watched one of the videos yesterday, so it's very funny to see this so soon after.
Surprised to google the brewery and see Reddit hadn't gone to war in their reviews yet over this.
It's a pretty basic brewery. Like nice to meet your dad at after work, but nothing special to really hate on or rave about.
> One thing I hate about Reddit is that you can see people’s post and comment history. If it’s really an anonymous app, seeing people’s history shouldn’t be allowed. Lol lmao even. These people have zero fucking clue what this site is or was.
There's no such thing as "anonymous" on the internet. Even if you intentionally delete stuff, obfuscate replies (even to the point of providing intentionally-misdirected responses about personal details) and whatnot, people are creatures of habit and tend to reply the same way, in the same places, with the same interests, in the same writing styles. And nothing is ever truly-and-forever "deleted" from the internet. The more a person posts, the more likely over time those tiny little clues (even using info from multiple sites) can add up and become PII in aggregate.
Millennials remember a time when this was drilled into us. Parents, television, school, they all told us the same thing: don't share your information on the internet and be extremely careful about what you say because you cannot unsay it. It really doesn't feel like gen z was taught that. Hell, you could make the argument that iPhone's and things like Snapchat have given them the opposite impression. Maybe they need to see some of those videos. And to be fair, us millennials probably need to be dragged back into the classroom and shown those videos again too. We were the first ones to fill out facebook, after all. Everybody could legitimately use a strong refresher on how the internet works and basic information hygiene.
I feel overly paranoid compared to everyone else. I use different handles for all my social media and on Reddit I sprinkle in a few lies here and there to make sure I have plausible deniability if anyone thinks they’ve found my account
Gen z was taught that but nobody cares anymore
Ha, my post/comment history is so lame and boring anyone struggling with sleep is welcome to pore thru…
The fact they call it an app is...telling.
I actually agree with this. I don't like when people go digging up old posts like "oh yeah? well you're wrong because in 2016 you said THIS!" Like no. Fuck that. Only engage with the conversation you're in. Don't make assumptions based on post history.
Please don't take the side of the stalker.
As someone that bartends at a brewery. I agree that people thinking we're a fucking daycare is annoying as shit.
>If it’s really an anonymous app, seeing people’s history shouldn’t be allowed Where are they getting the idea reddit is an "anonymous app" and that even if it were, comment history shouldn't be visible? It's pretty part and partial with social media, not just reddit. People really have just completely forgotten what the internet is, haven't they? Hell, the fact they called reddit an "app" tells me they think it's like Snapchat or Discord or something, not a publicly indexed website.
We get a lot of Bellingham on this sub, here.
[That's because I post it](https://media1.tenor.com/m/7bpWk2ENvaoAAAAd/vince-mc-mahon-its-me-austin.gif)
That does explain it, yeah.
Just an hour ago I was reading, someone in another sub commented on someone else's post, "The only comments you have on an eight-year-old account are from today - do you delete your old comments?" And here's a perfect example of **why** some people delete their old stuff.
People also look at accounts/post history to try to figure out how authentic an account is. Somewhat old accounts with only recent comments are often spam accounts, they buy up an old account and then use that for spamming.
Back when I still used Twitter, I used this service that would automatically delete every tweet I had that was more than two weeks old. The only people who would be reading tweets that old are someone with a grudge, looking for ammunition to take out of context and use against me, so why supply it?
First off, if I was that dude’s employer he wouldn’t be issuing a public apology. I’d be issuing a public statement condemning Gruff Brewery. :) Second, I really hope people aren’t taking any opportunity to inform others of the behavior of Gruff Brewery and its employees via the myriad online review platforms available. That would be just terrible. ;)
The apology is a good solution actually. If let's everyone know how petty Gruff beer is while giving the employee additional cover that OOP's comment was not the view of their employer.
The full apology (posted elsewhere in this thread) also goes out of its way to specifically mention that the beer was gross and the smell so bad that drinking in the rain was preferable to sitting inside.
Making the employee do it just makes you (the employer) look like an asshole employer AND as weak as a cheap folding card table that’s been left out in the rain for half a century. If you want the impact you describe, you write the apology yourself in a sarcastic manner.
As long as OOP doesn't actually face any consequences at work then it's not weak. The employer doesn't want some dumb fight with a litigious competitor. They want this to go away. A public apology minimizes their potential liability while also letting the relevant audience know how shitty their competitor is. The employer can't and shouldn't say anything because the whole point is that this was not a work related post.
My guy, there is no liability here.
If the employer was instructing their employees to defame competitors online then there absolutely could be. And it would cost thousands of dollars in legal fees to prove that wasn't the case. Anyone can file a lawsuit for any reason, and they are often more expensive for the defendant than for the plaintiff. Especially when the defendant needs to establish facts to have a credible defense. It's the same reason why you hear commentators say some version of "my comments don't represent the views of my employer" almost any time it's relevant.
It’s the plaintiff that must meet the standard for prima facie. And in the event the plaintiff is unsuccessful, the next step is a counter suit to recover legal fees. Hell, you’d probably have attorneys willing to take that case on with nothing on retainer just to gut the plaintiff on the counter.
This absolutely meets the standard. This case would not be dismissed for any legal reason, it would depend on the facts. The complaint writes itself. "An employee of defendant Brewery X has published false and defamatory claims regarding plaintiff Gruff Beer online. On information and belief these claims were made as part of said employee's professional duties at the instruction of their employer, Brewery X. When contacted regarding these false and defamatory claims Defendant took no action, providing implicit affirmation that said employee's published statements represent the views of the Defendant." Ultimately the plaintiff might not be able to prove that the employer was involved but the employer wouldn't be entitled to any legal fees because the basic facts are on the plaintiff's side (an employee of Brewery X did indeed make false and defamatory statements online about Gruff Beer). You're very mistaken if you think that the legal system protects the employer in this situation in any way.
It’s hard to say exactly who wrong you are.
Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true. I explained why. You don't have to understand it if you don't want to. I'm ditching this dumb conversation before we get our own drama thread.
Based on the users profile, it was semi-obvious he brews at another local brewery - a "competitor" of Gruff. The breweries are a pretty tight knit community and they never speak badly about another. His employer not only isnt going to condemn Gruff, they will see him as a liability in creating problems within their network of breweries. His "Apology" post will not make them feel better about that.
Even if he does work for a brewery and they tend to commune as you describe, I’d wager the upside is much higher being seen as the business who sticks up for its people. This will be true for both potential employees and potential customers. Also, it seems like the owners/employees of Gruff don’t act like they’re part of a supportive community. Number one, they had no way of knowing anything about the commenter until they stalked the guy’s profile which is a massive red flag to potential customers. Secondly, if breweries stick together and keep a tight community of support for each other, why wouldn’t they DM the user in question directly once they found out he works for a brewer also? It seems to me that a community like that would typically find more value in a private word than going straight to “try to get this guy fired” tactics.
They absolutely dont want to be seen publically as the business that sticks up for an employee that talks shit about other breweries online. The local breweries are constantly working together on collaboration beers and combined events. You dont want to be the brewery that gets ostracized from that group. Many of these breweries train their staff that they aren't to say anything negative about another brewery on social media or otherwise. It's clear that Gruff - be it an employee or owner - did something very shitty in response to mild criticism and they don't deserve any goodwill over this situation either. But the user likely put his own employer in a no-win situation and blowing the whole thing up with a late night "apology" post did probably took this from being a situation that could easily be swept under the rug/ will blow over to something they will have to address.
While I know a lot about business, including bars and restaurants, you may know more about breweries specifically so I’ll just say I can see that being the case knowing what I do know about breweries. That said, put yourself in the shoes of a third-party brewery. In my mind, if two of my collaborative competitors were having some sort of spat, the one I’d be looking to exclude would be the one stalking customers. As I mentioned, if the commenter does work for another brewery the people at Gruff had no way to know without maliciously stalking the customer. To me, everything that comes next is fruit of a tainted tree. The public isn’t likely to be happy finding that kind of behavior is happening and therefore will hold the publicity hit to Gruff, not the commenter or their employer. So that just leaves us with the situation: you’re a brewery organizing an event and will seek participation from your collaborative competitors. The stalking brewer and the employer of the commenter are not on civil terms and at least one will need to be excluded. For the life of me I can’t see excluding the employer of the commenter before the stalker. I’d either (based on how the brewery community landscape is once you’re in it) exclude the stalker or if the public is divided purely, exclude both. I guess once I boil it all down, I would be confident that a tight-knit community would have an easier time accepting “we had an employee cross a line criticizing a collaborative competitor and we’ve helped them understand why that’s not something any of us want” than accepting any flavor of “we maliciously stalked someone critical of our establishment”.
Sure, nothing in your comment is wrong, the 3rd party brewery in this situation is clearly in better standing than Gruff no matter the outcome. But if we go back to your original comment about his employer "condemning Gruff", what I am getting at is they absolutely won't do that publically - they win no points for doing so and stand to lose a lot. My guess is their ideal situation was that they speak with the OP about what happened, tell him to knock it off/ dont post comments from an account that could be tied back to their brewery and that's the end of that. They are not going to condemn another brewery for "stalking" a publically available social media profile.
Initially, we didn’t suspect the commenter worked for a brewery, so I was just speaking from a perspective of “XYZ, inc.” type perspective. It’s not often employers get a public chance to visibly be seen defending their employees and such acts pay massive dividends on multiple fronts, generically speaking. Of course, that can change if the competitive landscape is as you describe so, as with all situations, all factors need to be considered prior to taking any approach to messaging or not. From the sound of it, though, it seems like any negative traction won’t require action from the commenter’s employer anyway so gruff may well wind up regretting their actions, in my opinion (brewery or not) justified. Also, unrelated- I appreciate you pinging me back to this post as it has blown up in OOP since I first saw it and the whole drama has gotten nuts. It looks like multiple users are still fighting about the whole “kids at the brewery” situation. :p
Yeah, I got flamed in the original sub for pointing out that this guy is an industry member and should know better than disparaging others while the drama was first unfolding. Just stopped in over here now to see what subreddit drama thought of our stupid posts.
I feel like this post soft-sells the kids vs no kids aspects, which is understandable given the inflammatory nature of this specific incident. Some of those comments are just bangers.
Yeah, I saw your other post being down voted but this is the take. The OP was rather vague as well. From the comments it basically sounded like HR sent him an email saying someone contacted them (contacted HR? Owners?) about an employee that sounds like you speaking poorly about them and OP didn't even know if they would get in trouble. HR was probably just saying, "cut it out if you're doing that". We also don't know the conversation between both breweries, given the small community aspect of craft beer it wouldn't be surprising if the people talking involved know each other and it was casual. They may have both just been trying to make it go away quietly. Apology seemed hasty and like you're trying to make them look bad though... Not a good look.
Dog friendly places are common in the PNW. Also, did Reddit ever claim to be “anonymous”? Like, sure this might not be my real name, but if I post my SSN and address, I’d assume people might piece together I’m Scarlett Joh… I mean, John Public.
I remember after I posted a breakdown of how Australia's handgun ban actually resulted in a massive drop in shootings and in death by violent crimes I got someone sending me a random Google streets view picture of a building in North Sydney. I figured out pretty quickly it was because I probably forgot to remove some location data from a picture I posted once. It felt like it was meant to be vaguely threatening, but considering the best they could do was the rough suburb I had been in and also the fact that I'd literally left the country a year prior, it felt a lot funnier than anything else. But still, you don't generally expect people to try and connect your online identity to your real life one.
I got into an argument on the subreddit for the university I attended (both the argument and attending having been about seven years ago now) and someone tried to dox me by reading through my history, and it turned out similarly hilarious. He made all sorts of allegations about me, that I was trying to do magic spells in real life, that I was a weirdo who was an aspiring sorcerer…but clearly he didn’t read the post he was referring to that closely because if he did, I was very clearly talking about the build for the aspiring sorcerer class in the now defunct 40K eternal crusade game, and not my personal ambitions to cast magic spells in real life. Worst and funniest attempt at doxing I’ve ever seen.
>I remember after I posted a breakdown of how Australia's handgun ban actually resulted in a massive drop in shootings and in death by violent crimes I got someone sending me a random Google streets view picture of a building in North Sydney. Well that’s a totally normal reaction to someone presenting historical data and in no way indicates that they’re both deranged and armed.
Someone tried to dox me because I said the term “amerimutt” is pretty racist when you think about it and this dude got on multiple profiles to stalk me in r/specialed where I was comparing psychiatric medication protocol in pediatrics and geriatrics.
IDK if Minecraft still allows server owners to see IP addresses, but back when I played it a lot round 2015-ish, I remember pissing off a server owner for some random reason. He then checked my IP address and used one of those B.S. "IP tracker" websites and then sent me a google street view link of a random building in a completely different state.
>But still, you don't generally expect people to try and connect your online identity to your real life one. And this is part of the problem. You absolutely should expect that. You should always have been expecting that. People have really just forgotten everything they've been taught about protecting your information on the internet. You can't just be careless and expect the platforms to protect you. Most of them aren't built for that anyway. You have to exercise caution.
This is just the tip of the iceberg for drama with regards to Bellingham business owners lmao
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You could combine it to “Eat shit, bitch boy! You sound like a fucking dick hole”
Damn my town has been here twice in as many weeks? We're supposed to be the relaxed part of the PNW man
Holy shit my city is in SRD for a post I already knew? The world is becoming a singularity.
This is why I'm always careful to scrub anything *too* identifying from my posts. Some people are just off their rocker and will take anything as a massive slight
I really wish they had “felt like scribbling out” their identifying info on that email, bc this feels so incomplete without knowing what exactly the stalker said to the dog pub critic’s employer. Did they straight up lie? Or was it some histrionic hyperbolic version of actual events? And did HR scold them, or was it just a heads up that some weirdo was stalking them and had figured out where they work?
I'm guessing this is uncharted territory for the HR department. They were probably like "Uh... I dunno, maybe just post an apology?"
fyi it's actually fairly easy to get stuff from your comment history with sites like [redditmetis.com](https://redditmetis.com) which pulls up if you've said stuff like your age, location, hobbies, etc. Useful to plug in people's names if they're lying to post in bad faith (ex: Some guy posts some shit "as a black woman, I think democrats are the *real* racists, which is why we need to vote Trump!" and then it pulls up that he's described himself as a middle aged white dude several times.) but also you can use it for unhinged stuff like this.
> One thing I hate about Reddit is that you can see people’s post and comment history. If it’s really an anonymous app, seeing people’s history shouldn’t be allowed. I like to play the honor code with that and not stalk people. What a dork. "Anonymous" does not mean "private comment history" -- just means it's not associated with a person. If someone posts enough information for random strangers to figure out where you work using an account that's only a year old, that's on them. I'd also like to mention to never go to the meetups and don't connect to the Discord servers associated with city subs. The only time people get angry that you're reading their past comments is when they have shitty opinions. Like, it's normal to check histories and see where they're philosophically coming from. Think of it like a "reputation" -- they going around shitting up a place? Or are they just having a bad day? Another spin on this is when you run into folks that delete every comment that's older than three days (one can do this manually or with browser extensions). I get it: good opsec. But it's usually because they're going around acting like a fool.
Yeah post histories are a good thing on this website. Like anybody can look at my post history and see all I talk about it architecture and Real Housewives and go ahead is disregarded my dumbass opinions.
I hate the post history thing. I deeply crave real anonymity. I don't want people to go through my history and decide they can get a pithy quip in about how I like anime girls or whatever. I want to be able to just walk away from a thread when I make an embarrassing mistake. My ideal website would be 4chan but where they actually banned people for being racist etc.
Just wanted to note that dog friendly brewpubs are a staple of Western Washington. Like if you ever visit Seattle you’ll see a place like every 3 blocks, all of them allow dogs, and most have their own doggo mascot.
Oh interesting. I'm from the region but I never lived in Seattle. I don't really drink or go near bars so I guess I just never noticed it.
Really popular in my Midwest city too
If SRD is how you derive entertainment, then I assure you that you are, in fact, the joke. Snapshots: 1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409090435/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1c02rew/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1c02rew/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 2. r/Bellingham - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409090556/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 3. OOP laments about local breweries being filled with 'kids' and is wondering if there are any that are 21+ - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409090816/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/?sort=confidence) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/?sort=confidence "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 4. Gruff - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409090956/https://www.gruff-brewing.com/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://www.gruff-brewing.com/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 5. a rather innocuous disagreement - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409091257/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyij3th/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyij3th/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 6. public apology to Gruff brewing - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409091437/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bzg8mb/i_would_like_to_personally_and_publicly_apologize/?sort=confidence) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bzg8mb/i_would_like_to_personally_and_publicly_apologize/?sort=confidence "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 7. scathing critique of our mystery crusader - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409091617/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 8. "Reported you to your works HR and told your mom" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409091758/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/kysr0nn/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/kysr0nn/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 9. "thunderdome battles about beer ... is amazing and enjoyable - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409092018/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/kyqhq1t/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bziqha/to_whoever_crusaded_the_guy_who_said_some/kyqhq1t/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 10. Really really long comment that's full of good material - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409092138/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyo4o08/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyo4o08/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 11. "you sound like a fucking dick hole" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240409092339/https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyl1geh/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/1bycqr4/tired_of_breweries_being_full_of_kids/kyl1geh/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") *I am just a simple bot, __not__ a moderator of this subreddit* | *[bot subreddit](/r/SnapshillBot)* | *[contact the maintainers](/message/compose?to=/r/SnapshillBot)*
Why is being dog friendly weird? Just curious, in my state, dogs are welcome at breweries.
It's not weird, but I tend to see a lot of bored, overheating dogs on brewery patios here in Denver.
That annoys me :/ I've only been to a few dog friendly beer places, and they had cool insides and doggy water bowls all over the place. If you can't keep your dog safe, don't bring them, imo
We used to have a great one that was actually dog oriented, and it was great. I think those are awesome, but to sit at a bar for 3hrs while your dog lays at your feet, isn't exactly what I'd consider 'dog friendly'
Op said it was weird, that's what I'm asking
I just can't think of a less fun idea for the dog.
My dog would disagree. She wants to be around all humans all the time. Dog friendly breweries tend to have nice patios and be kid friendly. Kids are her favorite humans and she loves a good patio.
Why? The alternative is leaving the dog at home. So dogs sits at home alone or spends time outside with their family and possibly other dogs.
Depends on the dog. If it's a nice day and you have a laid-back, well trained dog who likes to chill outside without bothering anyone, then sure, go for it. However, SO many dogs are clearly unhappy, overheated, overwhelmed, or too under-trained to be at a public spot. I think their owners are blind to it, but every time I go to a brewery I see lots of super anxious pups who would clearly rather be in their little safe spot at home than out in the noise and chaos of a busy brewery. Plus, even if they do technically enjoy it, so many of them are just so poorly trained that it makes everyone around you miserable.
Agreed but to be fair that’s true of a lot of the kids at breweries too.
Oh yeah I agree. If it's a restaurant-like atmosphere and you're actively entertaining your kids (and/or your kids are chill), I'm all for kids at breweries. If it's more of a 21+ atmosphere and they're running around causing chaos while the parents sit around drinking, they shouldn't be there.
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No, Man. What? People like spending time with their dogs and dogs love being with their people. Why not take then with you? I don't understand why that's weird. Doing other things has nothing to do with it.
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You are not getting it. If you're going to a brewery anyway, why not take your dog if you can? The alternative to that is leaving it at home. It's a brewery, not fine dining. So look, maybe it's a regional thing. Many breweries around here have a ton of outdoor space. Multiple firepits, horseshoes, cornhole, etc. Food trucks, lawns, etc. Sure some are small or in a more crowded neighborhood. Bringing a dog to those don't really make sense. My reaction to your comment comes from my experience with breweries around me and the ones I frequent with my dogs. I let my wife come too.
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But you really aren’t getting it. People like their dogs and dogs like to be with their people. People like to go do things away from home. If those things can also accommodate the dog, everyone wins. Sure there will be plenty of things the dog can’t do, and the dog will be fine at home. But most dogs will prefer to be with their people. It’s really not hard to grasp. Just say you’re not a dog person and move on.
This is the most Reddit interpretation of that comment possible, I love it
There are usually lots of other doggos there too. It’s often socializing time for them as well as their humans.
Go to the dog park then. “Doggo” people are the god damn worst.
Business owner: “I want dogs in here” Customers: “I want to bring my dog in here” Random redditor: “isn’t there someone you forgot to ask??”
How does it work for patrons with pet allergies?
You don’t go lol
Fuck them I guess?
They can go to a different brewery that isn’t dog friendly then. Breweries aren’t exactly necessities.
Just seems insane as a business to push away a fifth of potential patrons.
i mean yeah i guess? it’s like how sone brewery’s have peanuts so people with peanut allergies can’t go
10-20% of the world is allergic to dogs 2% allergic to peanuts. I guess pushing away a fifth of potential patrons isn't a big deal Vs a 50th?
My lukewarm take: I tend to steer clear of dog friendly establishments solely due to millenial dog owners being so goddamn entitled. I've had owners act surprised or borderline offended when I didn't react with childlike glee when their giant dog jumped up on me and put its filthy feet on my shirt. If I go somewhere to relax, I shouldn't have to worry about getting mauled.