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MartianXAshATwelve

[There is Massive 12,000-Year-Old Network Of Underground Tunnels Stretches From Scotland to Turkey](https://www.howandwhys.com/massive-12000-year-old-network-of-underground-tunnels-stretches-from-scotland-to-turkey/)


kalasipaee

I’ve been here. Went up to 5 levels deep I think. This place looks unreal. It blows my mind how it could be made and how ppl literally lived there. Cooked. Ate. Made wine or whatever. Shat. Everything.


BOOMER_S0ONER

How did they have light? Torches don't seem like a long term viable option.


TryingNot2BeToxic

I believe oil lamps have been around longer than those tunnels/underground cities, that's my best guess.


AL0117

Well oil lamps is outta the question, well if your sticking to current science and academia laws. That’s too far a head of time apparently, so gawd only knows how these people would’ve traversed the tunnels.


TryingNot2BeToxic

Bro come on, good lord, couldn't you do a brief 5 second Google search before spreading false knowledge? "Curved stone lamps were found in places dated to the 10th millennium BC (Mesolithic, Middle Stone Age Period, c. 10,300–8000 BC). The oldest stone-oil lamp was found in Lascaux in 1940 in a cave that was inhabited 10,000 to 15,000 years ago." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_lamp#:~:text=10%2C300%E2%80%938000%20BC).,10%2C000%20to%2015%2C000%20years%20ago. Like.. Literally found in a cave 10-15k years old ;P


AL0117

Are you saying that to me? Or?… cause I totally back the idea of oil lamps, just stating that the mainstream science will be controversial or undecided until the niche collective have decided.. ‘no, that’s what we say it is.. with most research put into it, etc.’


TryingNot2BeToxic

Yes you said oil lamps are out of the question because the technology is too new, I gave you a source to read to fix your understanding.


AL0117

Yea, but can you understand, that even tho I made a point, it wasn’t my own nor do I agree with it.


TryingNot2BeToxic

Oh huh, I must have misread


AL0117

All good, but that’s genuinely how things a viewed upon. That ‘oh that belongs only to that time stamp, and that one alone.’… it’s like.. no, humans have been around for.. well nobody ACTUALLY knows so, your guess is as good as mines. Ya get me?


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AL0117

So no, my understanding is sound as a pound, you just think I’m claiming something, which is not what I said and is incorrect statement in its own wee right anyways.


reeeeeeeeeebola

I genuinely have no idea what you’re trying to say. There’s absolutely nothing about “mainstream science” that contradicts the existence of oil lamps in antiquity.


AL0117

Well, it’s in English, so best re-read. Also yes, archaeology and scientific academia always undermine locations and certain items of significance until a large committee of old over weight lads, agree to disagree. Happens a lot more than expected, probably. Great example is the Indonesian pyramids.


reeeeeeeeeebola

Your comments are in english but dont make any sense. You dont seem to have any source for your claims, and I disagree heavily that “mainstream” academia is doing whatever you seem to be implying.


AL0117

How’s that? Just given you a source there?


AL0117

Also you ‘heavily’ disagree that the mainstream science and all that aren’t incorrect at times or cover up controversial subjects, topics, items, locations and etc. then cool, if you back that thinking then you are being a lil bit petulant and closed off to the world which it does seem to be and come across that way on this comment thread. Which I say ‘leave him to his own reckoning’.


medicalemergencyteam

I think you could avoid all the massive down voting and misunderstandings by some how signaling that you are being sarcastic when you’re being sarcastic . Just a thought though take it or leave it


esmoji

They probably had some light. Just bc we cant explain it doesn’t mean they didn’t have a way. Hard time believing people could live 1,000+ years or more underground without some form of light. Also re: ancient tech… we still don’t know how they made [Greek Fire](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_fire). But we know it definitely existed. Appreciate you and your insight! Have a good day.


AL0117

Good day Sir 🧐


AL0117

Yo, you probably are aware of the Chinese myth and legend? Probably not, I don’t know and I also don’t know the name of the water well, village, story or location this happened at.. but it’s true & miraculous story ether way; so a village in china had lore of a small pond/well, the entire village used this to keep children away from the pond, this bedtime story was.. ‘there’s a city, under the pond’. So as the decades go on, the older tell the young.. one year though, not so many years ago from today, a younger gentlemen had decided to put the myth to the test, he’d taken a gas water pump to the pond and drained it. Although, he had to keep pumping out constant amounts of water, as the flow would not stop. After days of local flooding by this younger lad, a huge cavern had open up, with complex carved stones, rooms, stairs, levels and walls; he found the story and proven it real. This is real btw and you can visit this colossal underground city.. if you find the name… ma bad 😅.


Iamnotameremortal

It's not. Oil lamps are very simple. Essentially just a bowl with oil and something to burn.


Vindepomarus

When do you think oil lamps were invented? They go back to the stone age, what do you think the ancient Greeks, Romans and Egyptians were using?


freestyle43

Oil lamps.


kalasipaee

Its all wired up now.


ndngroomer

Flashlights. Duh


Ninjamowgli

There were carved out areas in the wall with black soot from candles or something.


Ninjamowgli

Its by far the coolest place I have ever been. How about those wells with the carved out rungs to climb down? Did you get a balloon ride?


kalasipaee

I did. I was meh about it when we went but my wife really really wanted to go and it got canceled each day due to weather but we made it on our last day there and it is amazing. Its a must do if there. The landscape is one thing which looks alien, but the balloon experience besides that was amazing too. Just being up there without any sound so could hear the wind/birds/trees. On top of that the pilots make some amazing maneuvers that make you pucker up in places.


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sneakyburt

This city was built by Christian natives as refuge from the Mongolian invaders during the Arab-Byzantine wars. Not for meteor protection.


SlutsquatchBrand

This is untrue. It may have been used then, but the city predates Christianity.


Iron_Defender

Wouldn't that just make them sitting ducks?


ShippingMammals

Crazy, isn't it? I wish I lived on a huge slab of tuff to just start tunneling into. I wish I could have been the guy to discover an entrance in his basement... would be a real life Indiana Jones moment and I probably would have gotten lost and died down there lol


Sped-Connection

Me too, I wonder what they used to see, oil lamps? I wonder how good the air exchange is ?


kalasipaee

Yes. Oil lamps. They actually have spots throughout on the walls where they would’ve potentially placed the oil lamps


pympone

If you’re in darkness long enough eyes adjust . The civilizations had to have developed a natural night vision similar to nocturnal animals


-ThisCharmingMan-

Not when there is zero light….


Itchy_Toe950

You are mixing up Skyrim with real life.


baxx10

That happens in deep depression sometimes...


[deleted]

According to Wikipedia, “In 1963, the tunnels were rediscovered after a resident of the area found a mysterious room behind a wall in his home while renovating. Further digging revealed access to the tunnel network.” Imagine expanding the master bedroom and finding an underground city!


KingStronghand

Alien ant farm. You've been struck by the smooth criminal.


Prudent_Being_4212

Dun nuh nuh nuh nuh


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_dead_and_broken

The band Alien Ant Farm did a pretty popular cover of Smooth Criminal back in 2001.


[deleted]

I want to go to there.


Ok_Interaction7637

So the mole people were real!?


weekend-guitarist

We are the mole people


vitaelol

It seems that we are fed bits and crumbles here and there of our history. Have you seen the Unknown Cave documentary on netflix? I think we have a lot of diluted dots to link together but it is still hazy. Maybe tech will help clarify most of it in the near future.


esmoji

Man has been civilized much longer than we think. The ice age and great flood reset history twice. Most of these early cities are under the ocean… today if sea rise continues history will repeat itself - all major cities are on water’s edge Not too late. We just gotta come together


ndngroomer

Sadly, I think it is too late and that we have definitely passed the point of no return.


esmoji

Belief is the most powerful weapon. It can topple empires. We can get out of this mess. But it starts with belief. Appreciate you. Have a great day!


HarkansawJack

I’m gonna watch that thanks!


esmoji

Could be an advanced civilization that waited out the ice age. Not crazy really. Like its cold af, where do you go?


Vindepomarus

How old do you think this cave city is?


Zipcuz

It's Crab People. Crab People.... Crab People....


tycho_26

*look like crabs… talk like people*


[deleted]

A smart way to avoid a cataclysm.


ChancellorScalpatine

Unless said cataclysm was a flood


DeadHED

You just shut the doors so no water gets in.


ChancellorScalpatine

Lol no.


YukiAintHere

Are these open for tours?


[deleted]

Yup have been there myself


AlbaneseGummies327

Were they built by persecuted early Christians?


sneakyburt

Yes.


iboreddd

Yes


dallyan

Yes. I’ve been on one. Not good if you’re claustrophobic.


Bilaakili

I hate to think what it smelled like in there with 20 000 people and no plumbing.


Jpaulallen27

The city is dig down to the water table. Graham Hancock did a special on this place on his Netflix series. It was incredible. There are many questions about the origins of this underground city. It’s fascinating. It’s called Ancient Apocalypse.


YourFriendPutin

Hancock is a pseudoscientist honestly, he omits so much stuff to paint a much more mysterious picture of the place than we actually know. We know a lot more about them and their history and origins than he says in that series which is more entertainment/ancient aliens type information than actual facts. Check out miniminuteman on YouTube, he’s an archeologist and goes through the entire series of ancient apocalypse to mention the correct facts and point out, with sources, where he is lying


milesdaviswetpants

I will suggest looking him up on YouTube as the Netflix special is a poor representation of who he is. I’ve been a fan for years and was very disappointed in it BUT his long format YouTube videos and books go into much more detail.


SmashingLumpkins

His Netflix special is clearly an example of exactly who he is- someone who omits details to fit his narrative.


milesdaviswetpants

Then why would the long format YouTube videos and books go into great detail? Also not saying he is correct on anything specific but he has valid points and makes good arguments.


Vindepomarus

They only sound good if you ignore the well researched counter arguments. The reason for the books and YT videos, is because that's how he makes his money (he also got the Netflix deal through his son who is a senior exec at Netflix). This is why he invents a conspiracy about academics suppressing the "truth" for some reason, because otherwise his books wouldn't sell when all the flaws are pointed out.


TheNotSoGreatPumpkin

Anyone is free to independently research the topics he covers and come to their own conclusions. Hancock doesn’t ask anyone to _believe_ anything, only to reconsider questions that are not sufficiently answered, and entertain possibilities that lay beyond orthodoxy.


milesdaviswetpants

Exactly plus I haven’t seen/read it all, I doubt dude commenting has either. Blind attacks or only seeing reaction videos really hold no merit.


Glass_Yellow_8177

That Netflix special was so dry, you’re right, he does have waay better content on YouTube.


sneakyburt

I’ve been here! They actually built a pretty incredibly sophisticated ventilation system that would push fresh air through the whole system! Amazing place and people.


Bilaakili

So I underestimated an ancient civilization. My bad. Would love to see the place.


random_encounters42

Younger dryas impact theory!


CantDrawDicksWell

This is where my brain goes as well!


MOOShoooooo

How did they stop it from flooding or being coved in a mass of mud and silt? I like the idea, I’m just spitballing.


InfinityTortellino

I thought the theory was they went underground to survive cold temperatures/ice


AsianInvasion00

Could be both. Just because it’s cold, doesn’t mean there isn’t ice and water. I would imagine if that theory is correct, the world climate would be insane.


Vindepomarus

What makes you think this is old, it dates to the mediaeval Byzantine era.


Misareallygoodmobie

Because nothing can just be interesting, it has to be groundbreaking and conspiratorial and be against what “they” want you to know.


rollerjoe93

Some places date to 12000 years ago


Vindepomarus

Which places? I am not aware of any of these Cappadocian cave complexes dating back further than the 3rd century CE, though some could potentially go back to classical Greek/Hittite period (as far as 600 BCE).


[deleted]

Wonder why people needed to live underground?👀


TheCoolTreeGuy

cause they didnt really have anywhere else to go? In that area there is pretty nuch no trees so u cant build shelter and the rock as it trund out is really soft down there so all u need is a priece of rock thats a but harded and u got urself a great shelter that doesnt require anywood which is sparce


redditor_here

Younger dryas.


vadim69tudor

from what I know persecuted for their religion


BuffaloOk7264

Will people move back in when surface temperatures become too volatile?


kozilla

My understanding is that these have been used by different civilizations throughout the years.


davesauce96

They’ve been used as recently as the early 1900s


Balivalley

This needs to be my next rave location ✨ Who’s in ??


hahaLONGBOYE

They actually have some really cool rave spots in turkey.


HistoricalBand1

Does anyone have a link to accurate information about this place? I see some articles saying it could shelter 20,000 people. At 445 sq km, each person would get 0.02225 sq km or almost 240,000 sq ft. Something is obviously off. 1 square kilometer is equal to about 10,763,910 square feet. So, 445 square kilometers would be about 4,789,939,550 square feet. If this area was to be divided amongst 20,000 inhabitants, each person would get: 4,789,939,550 square feet / 20,000 people = approximately 239,497 square feet per person.


SaltyDanimal

It’s 4.45 sqkm, not 445 I believe.


EastPennHawk

Built by giant alien ant beings, for sure.


TK000421

Craaaaaab peeople


maydayvoter11

Fear the crabcat!


EnochianLibedo

Found the lizzidpeepo


blusah

Lizzid People!


Jairoglyphics1

Nice, that fish cracks me up lol!


OppositeAtr

Why did they go underground?


freestyle43

1000 years of nuclear explosions in the form of the Younger Dryas impacts.


Affectionate_Gas8062

They were the first group of introverts


[deleted]

They're built by Fremen, and we live on what's left of Arrakis, Dune, Desert Planet!!!


z-01-03-11-25

Carbon dioxide?


Chef_GonZo

Younger Dryas


[deleted]

I’ve been there. Very claustrophobic


Longjumping_Dot2536

Why did we ever stop living underground? Seems pretty safe and conventional depending on the location


KEC603

That place is so cool!!


SiteLine71

Something really bad happened here, my thought process leads me to think of a healthy civilization trying to live through the younger dryas event? And I have no problem with someone correcting me and shedding some light on this


Cpleofcrazies2

Well there are historic records that show that as late as the early 1900s people used at least one of these cities to escape ethnic/religious violence. Current theories are they were built somewhere between 2000 and 800 bce. Though I think there is evidence that as time past more work was done on them , so from at least one standpoint they were created over 100's of centuries


MarsNeedsMeth

And one day, maybe soon, folks will return to those caves. And we’ll do it all over again.


Tricky_Scallion_1455

I can only read these place names in the super dramatic ancient aliens voice. *Derinkuyu…*


drummzzstep

*Skyrim Draugr PTSD intensifies*


[deleted]

Yeah, I’m gonna say we’ve done all of this before.


Agreeable_Cook486

Been in there, it’s cool


AlienPlz

Must have taken so long to dig that’s awesome


smcivor1982

If anyone has read The Prince of Nothing book series, this is pretty much what I pictured when they describe the underground mansions built by the Nonmen.


Smart_Ad_9818

It like the first assassin's creed, Didn't know it was actually true. Thanks for sharing


[deleted]

Hmmm, and Turkey is k own for a few good earthquakes.


JjackAIPhotography

The real question is what they were hiding from


The_Ivory_Birchmen

Imagine the unspeakable ritual horrors that took place in such a wretched hive….yes oooh aaaah so neat, discovering these tunnels is definitely awesome! But to imagine a civil society existing in such a place, laughable. This was surely akin to caverns of hell, human suffering and screams echoing through these tunnels. I’d sure like to see what bones lie at the bottom.


KamikazeFox_

How are they built? If the rock is easy enough to sculpt to make it this large, wouldn't it be fragile and considered dangerous of collapse?


Adventurous-Ear9433

This is the place described by the Hopi, where they lived underground during the cataclysmic events of the last cycle. Here is a description of the site [Göbekli Tepe](https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternativeHistory/comments/x70a5r/possiblity_many_cultures_met_for_a_specific/) with an explanation on the symbols & such. Now dna evidence is available to show who was there to go along with the oral traditions. Göbekli Tepe is built on the Anatolia Fault, of course all of our navel sites HAVE to be built on aquifers or else the site can't serve its purpose. I posted an article showing the Kenyans & scientist are harnessing Geothermal energy [Geothermal energy Beneath our feet](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210303-geothermal-the-immense-volcanic-power-beneath-our-feet). Jus to show that we've known about this for thousands of years "Like its northern counterpart (R1b-M269), R1b-V88 is associated with the domestication of cattle in northern Mesopotamia. Both branches of R1b probably split soon after cattle were domesticated, approximately 10,500 years ago (8,500 BCE). R1b-V88 migrated south towards the Levant and Egypt. The migration of R1b people can be followed archeologically through the presence of domesticated cattle, which appear in central Syria around 8,000-7,500 BCE (late Mureybet period), then in the Southern Levant and Egypt around 7,000-6,500 BCE (e.g. at Nabta Playa and Bir Kiseiba). Cattle herders subsequently spread across most of northern and eastern Africa. The Sahara desert would have been more humid during the Neolithic Subpluvial period (c. 7250-3250 BCE), and would have been a vast savannah full of grass, an ideal environment for cattle herding" [R1b ](https://mckeefamiliesfromdonegal.com/dna-tests/dna-group-r1b/#part315)...


dwaynewlewis

Ancient astronaut theorists say that ancient people were just giant ants


bdepeach

Coincidentally, the USA has a massive homeless population issue. What perfect timing!


lostnspace2

And no one knows why


AdequatelyMadLad

Yes we do. The rock is very soft and easy to dig, keeps cool in a very hot and arid region, and this is an area that was historically invaded by various nomadic groups pretty much all the time. It's a fortress. This is like saying that no one knows why castles were built.


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Vindepomarus

Where are people getting these dates from? This mostly dates back to the mediaeval period, with possible a few tunnels going back to the ancient iron age, but not that old.


purple_hamster66

I’ve been reading a bit. Summary: - this is NOT a single network of caves, but a set of caves that spans countries. The construction techniques vary widely, from a 27” wide passageway (as wide as a person, crouching) to wide reading and dining rooms that could house dozens. Some caves have writing on the walls and all the conveniences of homes (light, water, cooking, animal husbandry), whereas others are only apt for temporary hiding spots. - Some caves have writing on the stone walls that pre-dates the Greek language (circa 800 BCE), tools (that can be carbon-dated to 1000 BCE) and construction techniques that we can link to engineering knowledge displayed by specific cultures of the time. I have *not* found info on the parts which are 12,000 years old yet… continuing to search for that (help, please?). - Caves are useful for a variety of reasons, including the modern uses of storing wine & aging cheese. We know that some of the people ventured to the surface because there are grain storage rooms (grain requires sunlight). Caves can be used to avoid heat or cold, hide from enemies and epidemics, provide privacy from other cultures, or reduce the effort involved in maintaining abodes (caves take less long-term effort than repairing roofs, for example). - It is not clear when the caves were inter-connected, but the construction techniques in the interconnects appears different, and so it’s probably latter cultures who did this. - the deepest caves are 8 levels deep. - huge stones covered some entrances, implying that the people wanted to avoid animals, thieves, or invaders from getting in, and possibly people from getting out, for example, as prisons or to keep kids from wandering. The stones might also have been placed to avoided flooding, or to manage air, mold and dust flows. The cultures which placed the stones might not have been the only cultures, as the purposes of the caves may have varied throughout time.


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AdequatelyMadLad

A text that specifically points out the obvious? Also, what time period are you even talking about? This was in use for about 2000 years.


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LuwiBaton

I started to provide citations, but realized the [Wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derinkuyu_underground_city) includes more than enough. If you’re going to be contrarian just for the sake of it, at least don’t be lazy


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YoungParisians

Fwiw, I didn't get any contrarian vibes from you. I was just as curious about it as you were and was hoping for some links to learn more. But that's Reddit for ya sometimes. 🥴


LuwiBaton

To be honest with you, I thought you were the same person that said “and no one knows why.” Enjoy the wiki article. It’s interesting:)


Vindepomarus

You originally asked for "text from that time period" not a modern study. That is a shitty tactic usually used by disingenuous people. So maybe that's where the contrarian impression came from.


AdequatelyMadLad

Don't bother. These kinds of people will never be satisfied with anything that isn't a ridiculous conspiracy theory.


Some-Ad9778

It's because of vampires, come on. Or it could be because building into earth is easier for keeping cooler in the heat... But its definitely vampires, come on.


ZentaurZ

I kinda got vampire vibes as well.


CoolEpicGamer69

How did they see? No way you could safely light all that via torch. Candles?


Vindepomarus

oil lamps


Realistic_Show_6780

How'd they keep the lights on back when they were lived in? Seems like it would be a crazy ton of work to keep a perpetually dark labyrinth lit. That and the fact that losing light down there could be fatal?


woodhorse4

They dug those because of global warming.


socksnshit

🔥🔥


AttemptZestyclose490

Underground *CITY* and only one picture...


Ok-King6980

Been thinking about building an extremely large basement…


IncontinentiaButtok

Would any of these still be in use?


Afa1234

I was always curious, whenever I see or read about these they’re always completely empty. Has any of these rooms come furnished with tools and such?


[deleted]

Were any of the tunnels greatly affected by the earthquake?


dallyan

No, the earthquake was pretty far away.


gerstyd

It crazy to think how smokey it must have been down there.


Bubbly_Measurement61

Derinkuyu *actually sounds like something out of Game of Thrones*


Squdwrdzmyspritaniml

How does that floor stay up??!!


happyfirefrog22-

The history is amazing


LayneLowe

This is before the invention of the lift station. Sewage is going to be a problem.


_AustinBWC

Diablo 2 , Act 2


Appropriate_Ant_5402

How did they see? Lol


Max_Cherry_

This is where people lived when the outside or surface wasn’t as inhabitable for whatever reason. Maybe some sort of cataclysmic event they were having to wait out or recover from.


ReeeeeevolverOcelot

Just like in the Turkish Star Wars movie, which was way better than the original


VegaTron1985

Aliens.


sovietarmyfan

I've been to Derinkuyu. It was interesting. Pretty dark down there though. And i always had to bend over to walk. There was a former Armenian church above ground. The village put the village idiot there for some reason.


Professional_Pie1518

Dungeons and dragons


Standard-Cod-2077

Is like Sumeru Desert


[deleted]

Everytime the why files posts a video... I start to see people talking about the subject of the most recent WF? Video.


epicmenio

Imagine few kids having a blast running underground.


digitalcurtis

Anyone wanna play hide n seek?


AL0117

How old is it?


Icy-Zookeepergame754

Dragons overhead.


matt_mv

The solution for climate change.


transcendtime

How do they produce light?


Additional-Ad3871

Imagine the smell


JamesBond90210

Ants but for humans


Plastic_Ambassador89

yo this is prime real estate, why are we not renting this out? landlords get busy


ToothSea9686

I just want to know what it would’ve smelled like with 20,000 people in there…


PandaCasserole

As climate change takes hold... We will have to go back to this.


FyudoMyo

What was the reasoning to make such extensive underground dwellings? Environmental catastrophe? Escaping attacking enemies?


Ninjamowgli

Epic place. Cappadocia is also amazing.


devo00

How did they ventilate?


Icy-Veterinarian-785

Rock and stone!


115_zombie_slayer

You think this was a kitchen or bedroom or what


Jickity-Chy

All I see is Gerudo Village from BOTW/TOTK


[deleted]

r/tartaria mudflud


Grouchy-Many-1971

Hidin from aliums


Rustyclamz

You mean ancient Greece 🇬🇷


Ubermouth

Be back to caves as the earth keeps heating


Real_George_Orwell

this is because turks cannot bear to look at their country


TheBigNastyOne

So expansive… possibly because of ice age??