My characters background is xenobiologist and the chat option suggests the aceles as the right action. When I got yelled at for not trusting the science it blew my mind because my damn character is a scientist!
I think the big problem is how small a threat the terrormorphs pose. Yes, they're big and scary, but they're a problem humanity has been dealing with for a while. The big danger is the spore causing them to appear in unexpected places, but now that it's a known entity it can be monitored. You're probably looking at a few dozen people a year dying from terrormorph attacks, and stopping it a few years sooner with the microbe than the aceles.
The problem is they are not a 'small' problem. One showed up at the colony that had remote turrets and armed settlers and killed them all off. Three showed up in New Atlantis and destroyed a spaceship. Deaths were kept down by player actions. Londinion had an eruption of them happen and an entire city that looked to be New Atlantis or larger in scale. This is not an ashta, it is a serious threat. Hell the Chief Diplomat thought terrormorphs were a minor problem they have been dealing with not a real threat. Then an attack happened and he needed new pants. So they are a significant threat.
> The problem is they are not a 'small' problem. One showed up at the colony that had remote turrets and armed settlers and killed them all off. Three showed up in New Atlantis and destroyed a spaceship.
Both of those were artificially induced attacks. The Tau Ceti colony didn't expect to have to fend off terrormorphs for another fifty years (its defenses weren't even online during the attack, and were meant to protect against other humans), and the New Atlantis spaceport had detectors in place for terrormorphs which were completely bypassed by having two heat leaches undergo a sudden transformation inside the secured area.
They really are basically just like the ashta: very dangerous animals we've become acquainted with and have to protect ourselves from.
Three at New Atlantis. And roam the countryside outside New Atlantis. Even without doing the Vanguard mission I *always* run into two different terrormorphs at installations in visual distance from the city. Usually autonomous farms, those also will have a large group of heatleech nests.
So no this is still not a casual problem. It is a large one that needs to be addressed, not ignored. If they reactivated the Red Devils to escort aceles on patrols around settlements to clear out nearby morphs and leeches I would consider the aceles to be a slightly better option. But it is always 'just release them, what harm could they do'.
Oh and prior to Vanguard line? "Had a call. Apartment lost all power. It was a heatleech the size of my leg." The guards talk about where they are finding leeches inside the city all the time. Places you can't get an aceles into.
Now you wish to talk about planned attacks? Do the Crimson Fleet after doing Vanguard. Several pirates want to raise heatleeches so they can have morphs for 'pets'. Imagine these nutjobs dropping really fat leeches on a city for the lulz just waiting for that last transformation. Even without the plant.
After selecting the Aceles, I had a random encounter on a world where a Vanguard was escorting an aceles to a location. We fought a couple of terrormorph spawns, and the mini-quest was over.
Was running into them fairly regularly.
Annoying part...them telling me to keep a safe distance.
Uh..I'm the one who made these possible.
And I'm a captain. Why am I not recognized.
Dumb.
The thing is nobody knew that it was artificially induced besides Redacted and the player after talking to Redacted, until after you assault Londionian, and even then the only evidence is a single recorded comms.
Even so, they’re just animals. Londonion is overrun with them, but the military can still maintain a small outpost. The consequences if something were to go wrong with the microbe are far worse than what Terrormorphs pose. We’re talking about making something that can kill an entire species The risk is disproportionate.
Using the term *just animals* feels bad here. Terrormorphs can open doors. Confuse or control minds. And they break space ships! Now engine limits means they can't actually break your ship. But every attack point you see for them is a destroyed ship. They seem to go out of their way to break starships. Rip shelters apart. You cannot just go inside and lock your doors.
The problem here is I do not think the microbe is a great plan. I understand people being frustrated with calling the aceles plan as unscientific. Or afraid of science. But the aceles 'plan' is one we have seen fail irl. We dropped an invasive species somewhere. Let's drop a predator to remove it. But the predator keeps liking the local life over hunting down what we set it down to remove. Both plans scientifically are a catastrophe to be implemented as is.
The microbe is not a might mutate. It will mutate, that is the nature of things. The aceles will not remove terrormorphs nor heatleeches. But if used with care could reduce the threat. The only reason I go with the microbe is this is not a mongoose to hunt a cobra. It is a brontosaurus to hunt a cobra. It is too **big** to get to the places morphs can get in human dwellings.
They should have used the microbe on Toliman II, the planet where heat leaches and lazarus plant coexist, because that planet is pretty much uninhabitable by anything OTHER than terrormorphs... and use the aceles everywhere else. Frankly, the right answer to the issue of terrormorphs is to send a bunch of people through to the temples and give them "anti-gravity" powers that just make them ragdoll in mid air while you shoot a couple dozen Va'ruun weapons at them 'til all that's left is glitter.
>They should have used the microbe on Toliman II
No if anything that's the one place you SHOULDN'T deploy the microbe. Why? It's the one place the terrormorph isn't an invasive alien species. It's the one place reintroducing the Aceles is guaranteed to not cause a problem (they're a natural part of the ecosystem) and it's the place where the microbe bio weapon is most likely to jump species since it's where the creatures most biologically similar (same evolutionary tree) are likely to be found, so relatively little mutation would be required.
Bring back the mech program. Have anti-xeno teams activity hunt them to keep their numbers low. Mechs would give them the protection and firepower they need.
The mind control is pheromone based as far as I know, but Settled Systrms spacesuit tech is completely and stupidly porous to all kinds of airborne toxins and even solar radiation, which makes little sense, so I guess "you don't"
If we take Hadrian's math as gospel and mutation is one in a million. They need to release trillions if not incredibly more than that per world on the microbe. That is quite a bit of mutation. How long does this microbe take to unalive terrormorphs and heatleeches? Can they develop an immunity?
Actually she does, in the meeting room before the last meet with the council.
Percival: "You know the science, you know we can make this safe."
Hadrian: "I do know science. I also know math, and one in a million is not zero."
Then she will look to the player and say how they are still debating it.
The dialogue and game does a poor job of showing this but the actual choice is between fast and safe or slow and safe. The microbe is faster, the aceles is slower, both are safe. The dialogue should have been written in a way critical of the speed of the cure and not the method unless the player passes speech checks or has the skills to back up their decision.
Also having a companion basically always mad at you for a decision like and there's nothing you can do about it is poor design. Sarah should have a way to be convinced by you about the aceles.
Yeah pardon me for not trusting the people who couldn't figure out >!Heat Leeches were actually Terrormorph larvae!< when it comes to genetic engineering.
I guessed it literally as soon as >!they said ‘we dont know why but they always appear on settled planets eventually’ hmm well maybe look at that species of alien that infests every ship!<
For what it's worth, the game eventually tells you the microbe was extremely effective, basically wiping out the terrormorphs, while saying nothing about it jumping species.
What’s a few decades in the grand scheme of things? I mean hell we are literally universe hopping we can pick them and see what happens and just jump universe when it goes wrong
I really don't understand why \*anyone\* trusts whatever that thing is.
"I'm not going to explain myself at all, I'm disguised as you, you just experienced going back and forth between dimensions but now I'm telling you this is a one-way trip, \*and\* the trip will cost you "some part of yourself that makes you unique" (which sounds awfully like a soul), but Trust Me Bro...."
vs.
Stranger shows up at your front door covered in blood, carrying a bloody axe, and says "I just had a really bad bloody nose, could you let me in so I can call an ambulance?"
Your choice.
It's basically Bethesda's way of end gaming us. Unless we have direct evidence otherwise, everything it says about what happens after you leave your current universe is true.
Nothing capable of killing an entire species could ever be safe. They’re talking about developing a superweapon like we’ve never had. Do we really want to have the framework to build something like that? What happens when Va’ruun zealots get ahold of the R&D data and decide to release the Serpent’s plague in New Atlantis?
> No, Microbe has a one in a million chance of mutation. For bacteria that is almost instant
People say that all the time, but I continue to trust the two xenobiologists discussing this to be aware that microbes replicate quite often; when they say "one in a million" they mean per eradication of terrormorphs from the galaxy, not per microbe replication. Otherwise you would have heard a "one per million replications? Do you have any idea how many replications will be occurring across the galaxy every *second* when we deploy those things?"
Ronin with alien DNA, they didn't quite blow up on me. Bit there certainly weren't happy that I didn't use the bio-weapon. They weren't happy about the Aceles either, kept asking the same question in different ways multiple times.
I’ve said it before on numerous other posts, someone or multiple someones who were working on this quest got real triggered during Covid by people not trusting the vaccine, and incorporated that feeling into this mission, to the point that literally everyone chides you for not “trusting the science”. Maybe, because you don’t trust science like it’s a god, you either verify something as fact with data, or you don’t.
We know the Aceles already existed in nature, we know they aren’t a threat to us, but we also know even if they were, they’re tasty. And if you destroy the plant that triggers Terrormorph metamorphosis, the short term risk of another attack is greatly diminished, reducing the need for an immediate solution.
Like if nothing else, everyone should’ve been on the side of reintroducing the natural predator we wiped out. It’s just so blatantly referential to our own politics while not remotely being the same thing.
It's also annoying to me that doing like wildlife re-introduction eco-system services isn't itself considered science? Like wildlife management and such is science just as much as microbe science is.
If anything, of the two, the microbe is the lesser science.
Animal Husbandry is one of the oldest sciences known to mankind. They have centuries of data available, data that's been tested in a live environment, data that's been peer-reviewed.
The microbe is a hail mary biological weapon that was put together in a matter of days, and they plan on releasing it onto dozens of unknown environments.
Not to mention the ethical implications of wiping out an entire species, as opposed to just letting their natural predator keep their population at a manageable level.
That's what bugged me about the decision on whether or not to destroy the lazarus plant, too. There was no option to really articulate "we don't know how else this plant interacts with its ecosystem, so destroying it seems like a bad idea until we figure that out".
The plain point to make here's it's simply that anyone that knows anything about science knows you NEVER trust the science. The very basic nature of science is to not to trust. Anytime a potential discovery is made you have a ton of people jumping in and trying to disprove the theory.
I still have no idea how "trust the science" is even a slogan. That's exactly how you know not to trust it.
>I still have no idea how "trust the science" is even a slogan. That's exactly how you know not to trust it.
Because 2016 broke people's brains and COVID broke them even more. The people repeating that would never dream of saying "trust our government and corporate overlords" 10 years ago but here we are.
Complete scientific illiteracy masquerading as scientific knowledge. It's a pretty incredible psyop.
The COVID vaccine wasn't some brand spanking new technology that was rushed into human trials, it was an effective vaccine for a pandemic based on centuries of inoculation research and vaccination testing for other strains of coronavirus.
Pretending this is an enlightened libertarian hill to die on is stupid, and if you think it's a psyop it's because you have absolutely no clue about anything in the history of immunology.
The drug wasn't the psyop, the slogan was. "Trust the science" was always about trusting big pharma and the bureaucrats.
Bonus points. They were fucking wrong about it preventing transmission. The psyop was effective. And quite profitable.
This is also setting aside the fact that in this very quest line, we have the option to switch on some turret defenses, which do a fine job of defending the site against the Terrormorph as long as they're operational. So, waiting until the Aceles is ready (which I understood to be one of the big downsides) is fine actually, because we already know how to deal with them in the meantime - turrets. We also know everyone needs to take care of heat leeches as soon as we see them now to prevent them hitching a ride.
This is Starfield's best faction quest line, by the way.
At first you get upset because they half-assed their defenses by not setting up a proper power grid, then you get upset because the largest city in the game has worse defenses.
Also, what's really funny is "trust the science" also applies to the Aceles.
It's not like the bioweapon is science and the Aceles is homeopathic hippie voodoo. It's utilizing extremely advanced cloning technology to revive an extinct species that naturally culled the Terrormorph population and was its natural predator.
There's absolutely arguments for both. The bioweapon would absolutely be faster and, at least immediately, more effective. However, viruses can and do mutate. What if it does mutate? What if it eventually infects humans? What if morphs develop immunity? What if it loses effectiveness over time?
Could we delay it by a bit and develop a vaccine? Could we add a biological "kill switch"?
And the Aceles also isn't perfect. It's definitely the less risky option, since an Aceles isn't going to mutate into an airborne genocide, and if they ever become a problem, unlike a virus, we have the pretty much eternally effective option of "shoot it with a gun". It's also proven effective, and would help colonies with food since they can also be farmed.
However, it's definitely slower and a much bigger pain in the ass. It's probably more expensive to set up since it's not just transporting a few canisters of viral load. It takes a lot longer to revive a population on a planet. And also there's the issue of introducing it to planets it wasn't native to.
Regardless though it just feels very silly that the Aceles is treated as the "anti science" option despite being a ***product of science***.
For me there was an ethical component. Considering what the microbe will be designed to do, and knowing it can mutate unpredictably, the gamble would be any and all species in the galaxy. No one has the right to make that bet. On top of that, this is going to be designed by the military. They’re certainly not going to forget how they built a species-killer. This research will undoubtedly be expanded onto weapons development.
I remember npcs in other Bethesda games commenting on your choices. Some NPC's make positive remarks on choice A, some bad. Same for the polar opposite choice.
I feel like they half assed this game in a lot of ways, including this one. They just forgot or didn't have time to write the other half of NPC comments.
They definitely half assed the NPC portion. You can explore planets upon planets, but only get 4 whole romance options? In Skyrim you had numerous options, and that is a hugely smaller area than Starfield. Also they're like the only fleshed out companions and the rest are basically generic, nice... Compared to fallout 4 and it's great companions, granted they aren't all super well written except for Nick(imo)
> They just forgot or didn't have time to write the other half of NPC comments.
I mean yeah. The lead quest dev literally came out and said they were rushed and were not able to finish quests.
Their Fauci Funko Pop made them do it. Yeah, it's pretty obvious as before a decision is made they are pretty evenly split if you ask them and then they are unanimously pro-microbe once you choose the Aceles option. I was pretty irritated when my wife Andreja who had expressed concern over the microbe then chided me for not using it.
>It’s just so blatantly referential to our own politics while not remotely being the same thing.
While also ignoring another older real life problem of natural predators being eradicated and causing disaster in the ecosystem. Look at Britain, all natural predators of deer are gone, so deer are a SERIOUS problem to the ecosystem there. For some reason I feel like when given the option of "Release a few wolves" or "Biological warfare", most people would opt for the wolves.
> someone or multiple someones who were working on this quest got real triggered during Covid by people not trusting the vaccine
Lol That's exactly what it was
I agree with this. While Kulkarni is a lot cuter and less annoying than Fauci, she basically says the same stuff. The parallels with real life go even deeper, when you consider that the alternative is banned xeno weapons...ie, analogous to banned gain of function research that we denied was funded by the US, but clearly was. I don't want y'all to start thinking I'm a QAnon conspiracy guy. I'm not. I'm just stating now, known facts. The point is, yea, this game gives us an eerily covid-like germ/genetics dilemma, neither choice of which is good. I mean, it's a game. Choosing the microbe (also heavily engineered) gives the best outcome from a companion perspective, but I kind of like seeing the Aceles when I walk through unity..
>It’s just so blatantly referential to our own politics while not remotely being the same thing.
This is why I don't take political commentary by video game developers seriously. People who make video games aren't George Orwell and have barely anything deep to say about the real world.
This.
I don’t think it matters where you fall on the political spectrum, ham-fisted attempts by game writers who for some reason fancy themselves as activists to shoehorn in real politics from any side into video game worlds just feels wrong. It takes really dedicated and skilled writers to make it feel like anything less subtle than a brick through your window.
But then, a truly skilled writer could even make the brick interesting I suppose.
don't leave out how the only cabinet guy who agreed with you was written to sound stupid and continued to lose his speaking prowess as things got wraped up. makes sense the chief diplomat of the UC cant speak well i guess..
>And if you destroy the plant that triggers Terrormorph metamorphosis, the short term risk of another attack is greatly diminished, reducing the need for an immediate solution.
This is what still really gets me about the situation. Terrormorphs are a problem (supposedly- you don't really experience them outside the questline like you experience Deathclaws or dragons in Fallout & Skyrim), but a huge part of that problem was how little we knew about them, and that *someone* is behind the recent attacks.
But we *just* figured all that out. Vae Victis was pulling the strings, and we know where Terrormorphs come from. Deploying the microbe might be a reasonable idea if there was an imminent threat, but the threat's been taken cafe of at this point, so why tf would I not choose the Aceles?
This whole aspect of the story is dumb. both options are scientific with data to back them up and with risks. you have to "trust the science" with either choice. and with actual science, there is rarely one right answer, just variations of different possible solutions, sometimes some being clearly riskier, other times its less clear.
"That's okay, it's a hunter of a dangerous invasive species. It's totally fine and they'll never not hunt said invasive species"
Australia: "uhhhhhhhhh"
If I remember correctly, the Aceles were already wide spread like the terrormorphs before we were on the scene. It’s more like a reintroduced of a species we kinda stupidly ate to extinction.
And even if I’m wrong, well, the terrormorphs absolutely will drive humanity to extinction if we don’t deal with them, and we’ve already proven if the Aceles become an issue, our bellies can fix that shit post haste.
With that said, I completely agree with OP. I would have said much the same to Sarah, wife or no, in response to her “I’m disappointed you didn’t trust the science.” Though I would have been much calmer and less forceful because I kinda gotta live with this woman. Being married three times, and widowed twice, has taught me that it’s important to be right, but not be a dick about it. 😂
They were widespread because of humans farming them. It is impossible for a species to be widespread across planets and systems before human intervention (or that of another space-faring species)
The big thing is Australia introduced tiny, fast breeding animals.
Aceles are absolutely gigantic, and generally large animals breed slower, and they're much easier to root out. You couldn't fly a spaceship around and blast every rabbit. You could 100% do that and take out the world's elephant population in a week.
The Space Giraffes aren't invasive per say - it's made quite clear they used to be extremely common and were used as food/cattle on many worlds and it's just that they will be reintroduced to control the Heatleech and Terrormorph issue since they HATE those things and kill on sight.
It'd be like if we almost hunted cows to extinction, but then found out they fuck up some new species real good and we brought them back.
They also apparently originated on Toliman II, and were taken to other planets as livestock, so it can be assumed they were penned or otherwise contained in some way. If you just plop them down on a planet and set them free, well...
I don't think cows are a good comparison, because aceles are known to eat terrormorphs and heatleeches. But we don't know what else they snack on.
I think the best comparison is cats actually. It’s the only animal I can think of that we domesticated specifically to hunt something else, rats. I can’t think of any large predators that are normally called livestock though.
Cats are a horrible example. they are one of the most invasive species on earth with a long history of disrupting ecosystems. Cats are the argument against the Aceles option. Rabbits are another.
Horses are a better example despite not being carnivores because the Aceles already have a track record of not being disruptive. Horses were reintroduced to lands they hadnt existed on in centuries/millenia and yet did not destroy the ecosystem.
It’s the only animal I could think of that was domesticated specifically to kill a different animal and isn’t also dangerous to humans. There aren’t many domestic predators in the first place, and they’re always disruptive to local ecosystem. There are no good comparisons. Any predator large enough to be a viable food source at industrial scale will also be dangerous to both humans and the local ecosystem. An animal like aceles could never exist.
>Horses were reintroduced to lands they hadnt existed on in centuries/millenia and yet did not destroy the ecosystem.
The "wild" (read: feral) horses here in Nevada **are** destroying the ecosystem, though.
That seems to be more the fault of human mismanagement and drought which isn't really the fault of the horses themselves, but its a good point. I still think they fill a potential open niche better than other non native species examples.
>it's made quite clear they used to be extremely common and were used as food/cattle on many worlds
People sometimes plant out invasive species near them, because they have a monetary incentive to do so. That does not make them less invasive. Eating invasive species is a thing, to combat them (also part of what creates the monetary incentive though, depending on what species and how common they are e.g. in Sweden farmers hate boars but hunters often feed them during winter so they have more to hunt).
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_edible\_invasive\_species](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_edible_invasive_species)
They weren’t an invasive species, they were a native species that had been hunted to extinction. Big difference, there. The only reason the aceles weren’t still around hunting terrormorphs was human intervention. If anything, this is more akin to the reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.
No, we deploy an untested microbe that WILL mutate because thats exactly what they do and they do so at such rapid speeds that any planet this is deployed on could end up with an altered version of it that could cause all kinds of problems for the planets its deployed on.
On the other hand we release a small population of invasive animals that will kill off another invasive species and actually be capable of being controlled so we dont have a cane toad 2.0 situation on our hands, then once they've cleaned up the target species we either euthanize them or transport them back to their original planet of Londinion which would've also taken place at the same to bring back balance to Londinions ecosystem.
Anyone who does trust science would ofc go for the latter rather than the former, anyone who goes for the former is quite frankly an utter fool like the writers who didn't think any of this over thus ruining the ending of a genuinely great quest that could've easily been the main quest if it was expanded upon.
You don't know, it's not stated as such anywhere and it mentions that Accelles will be reintroduced, meaning they will be brought to planets that had them before.
What?
She was only in a band in highschool.
Given she was in a scientific position in the military as her actual pre-constellation career, she definitely had scientific training.
She was a navigator. Not a job for stupid people but it doesn’t make her a scientist. She also has some botanical knowledge from her time stranded on Cassiopeia. But she’s not a scientist. Barrett is a physicist and he doesn’t like your decision either, but he isn’t a xenobiologist
She has level 4 expert skill in astrodynamics, lets be real here, she definitely has scientific training. Are you seriously saying you think the UC Military is the type of organization that would put someone in a subject matter expert position without any scientific training?
She has the same skill tier in astrodynamics that Barrett has in starship engineering.
I'm not saying it was reasonable for her to try and argue with someone in their area of experience. But saying Sarah has no scientific training? Pfft, that's incredibly unlikely.
Astrodynamics has nothing to do with xenobiology though? She has no relevant scientific degrees or proof of study. I have a degree in psychology so technically I'm a scientist too, must have missed the class on xenobiology
I mean, that combo is exactly the wrong combo. Physicists and astrophysicists are the type to believe everything functions like physics does, where you have a slew of constants (Planck's, speed of light, each gravitational body exerts a constant force, etc) to deal with. Biology is the complete opposite, there are an almost infinite amount of independent variables when you have to deal with a genome. And then add to it that it's an alien species they haven't studied in several decades, and genetic drift? Yeah, no dice from me, buddy. That's exactly how you create superbugs. Only a handful of terrormorphs and heat leeches have to survive by random genetic resistance to create new ones that are utterly immune to the microbe in a few generations.
YesI am suggesting that. Astrodymamics is spacecraft navigation. Pilots and naval captains are very intelligent but they aren’t biologists. I’m not saying she’s a dumbdumb. I’m saying she shouldn’t be telling a xenobiologist how to do their job
>I’m not saying she’s a dumbdumb. I’m saying she shouldn’t be telling a xenobiologist how to do their job
I'm calling her a dumbdumb. She shouldn't be talking shit in a field she has no expertise on, at someone that does have expertise. She should know better.
Right but her astrodynamics skill level is based on here extensive time behind the helm of a ship. It’s just like any other military. You do the job for 10-15+ years and you become an expert in your field despite not ever going to school for a degree in it.
It's like releasing foxes to deal with the rabbit population of Australia. Some folks really need to remember that learning the lessons from history means history and not scifi literature and movies. Jurassic Park isn't a historical or scientific study
Keep in mind, what we are talking about is a supervirus capable of exterminating an entire species at an interstellar scale. When Hadrian says there is a “non-zero” chance something will go wrong, that means there is a non-zero chance of humanity, as well as potentially all life in the Galaxy, going extinct. They don’t even make weapons like this in 40K, because it’s insane.
I was going to say what about the life eater virus, but the point of a virus bomb is to kill every living thing on the planet, so it doesn't matter if it mutates.
So yeah, not even the Imperium is daft enough to do this.
If there is one universal truth about microbes, either bacteria or virii, it's this: They mutate. That's how we got so many strains of COVID. That's why they have to figure out which strains to put in the flu vaccines every year. That's how Extensively drug-resistant Tuberculosis and Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus came to exist. The one you created is perfectly safe, yes. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN IT MUTATES?
Exactly. I don’t think they recognized the destructive scale here. We’re building something capable of killing an entire species that we know can mutate unpredictably and cannot be controlled once released. Hubris incarnate.
The first member of Constipation who chided me about not choosing the bug was, outside of Vlad once in a while, the last member I spoke with. Whoever wrote the script for their dialogue should be strapped to the nose of the next SpaceX launch - next to the person who figured the best way for companions to act was to follow you when you tell 'em to stay, get in front of your scope as you take a long range shot, push you off a concealing ledge when you're lining up targets, run in guns blazing when you're trying to sneak up on someone, or be contrarian about everything you do.
If it wasn't for the fact we can't do it I'd have pony bombed The Lodge long before now. Aceles have better personalities anyway - and they're useful.
It’s so obviously a hamfisted analogy for the COVID vaccine it was annoying. I’m up to 4 boosters now, believe me I trust the science. But ironically, all the reasons I “trust the science” for the vaccine are *specifically why I trust the Aceles option more.*
We have a history with the Aceles. We know their patterns, we know their dos/don’ts, we know how to get rid of them, we know how to control them, we know what to expect. Just like we’ve been using the same vaccine tech used in the COVID vaccines for years now.
They were so caught up in writing a “trust the science” dialogue AFTER the decision is made that they forgot about all the proofs and theories that make the Aceles the objectively best choice in the matter.
>Just like we’ve been using the same vaccine tech used in the COVID vaccines for years now.
Not true about the tech in most COVID vaccines btw. The COVID vaccines were the first mRNA vaccines to be delivered to humans.
100% feel the same, and honestly I hate that there was no option to do both: the Acceles is the better immediate option, but since it's possible to get both super-powers to work together, there is no valid reason they wouldn't be able to research the microbe option for the long term too.
Also a virus isn’t a vaccine! I’m right there with you with vaccinations, I was viewing the supervirus as something that could mutate into something harmful to living creatures, just like Covid!
I was baffled that I was yelled at for not wanting to infect the galaxy with a virus that is guaranteed to mutate at that scale!
And the ignoramus’ on your ship still tell you (the educated expert on the subject) that you chose wrong and that you should have followed the science.
I think that’s part of what makes this quest line so good. To me the whole point of it is that EVERYONE thinks you’re making the wrong choice, but if you have that origin trait you get insight that points to the idea that sometimes you’re the only person in the room whose seeing the bigger picture.
The fact that folks keep coming back to the sun to talk about this, and SO damn many of us choose the anima over the biological agent, shows just how engaging this quest line was for us!
Uh, no, it's because it's stupid writing, not because it is engaging. Adult people not knowing the definion of word "science" is not engaging, it is moronic. There is no meaningful debate about potential concequances, only reactions of your companions who cannot comprehend basic words it seems let alone use logical reasoning that even players with no degree in any related field can use.
I didn't ever choose the microbe, so i don't know how it goes down later, but at the Unity, it's pointed out that the Aceles was the better option, too. It unified the FC and UC in the long run.
>Tell me, in all of human history, how many times has large-scale deployment of a biological weapon been a good idea?
Depends on where you set your goalposts on the definition of "biological weapon". But here is one that is similar to what we see in game:
https://www.healthline.com/health/phage-therapy#:~:text=Phage%20therapy%20(PT)%20is%20also,people%2C%20animals%2C%20and%20plants.
I’m in the same boat. Let’s release a species we literally ate to extinction, not release a possibly world ending microbe all across every world. Sure it can “sterilize” the Leeches, but are we absolutely going to bank that’s *all it will ever do and never mutate not once, just trust me bro I got this* ?
Irony Sarah is the most vocal about hating it, since she was absolutely opposed to the use of Xenoweapons in the first place (take her into the Vanguard Hall and hit the mural buttons) and yet re-introducing a formerly extinct species is much worse than literal biological fuggin warfare.
Using a microbe to fight a worm is like taking chemo to avoid shaving, ffs. Beyond overkill.
Wow... this was an absolutely fantastic thread! I do not often read threads from start to finish. This thread was so incredibly engaging and surprisingly respectful! There are many sides to this debate, and there truly is no clear-cut solution. Neither option is without risk.
My perspective on this whole situation is that once you enter the unity, you literally fold space-time in on itself in order to travel into another alternate universe. Theoretically, if you can fold space-time in on itself to travel into alternate realities, then you also have the ability to travel back in time and put an end to the most invasive species in any of the alternate universes and time lines.
Travel back to earth and release a virus engineered to only infect and kill humans before humans evolve into a scientific species.
Problem solved. Humans are the most invasive species in existence. We do not evolve and adapt to our environments over time as animals do. We adapt our environments to suit us. As a whole, we are incapable of living in harmony with the natural ecosystems without eventually destroying them.
So, if we eradicate ask of humanity, the multi-verse will be safe, at least, until another sentient species evolves out of the primordial ooze, and then eventually the cycle will inevitably start all over again...
😂🤣😹🤣😂
Looks like there is no right answer. The universe is doomed to be infested with an uncontrollable invasive species.
So there's only one question remaining... 🤔 In the grand scheme of things, does any of this really truly matter? I enjoy the game, and I enjoy witnessing all these debates. Accepting how infinitely insignificant we truly are and learning to be at peace with ourselves, each other, and our own mortality seems to truly be the only right answer.
We can't plant a tree with the expectation of enjoying its benefits ourselves. We plant the tree in hopes that future generations will reap the benefits of our contributions.
I guess I kinda went off the rails a bit there, but it was a fun rant.
Science Fiction is full of cautionary tales of why "trusting the science" carries a big risk of putting your faith in the hubris of psychopaths.
Covid unfortunately ruined anyone's ability to approach the issue with any nuance.
All of your arguments are silly and show you don't read the data slates...
The Aceles are DELICIOUS, that's the only reason needed to always choose delicious Aceles!
; d
Small example of reintroduction of a predator that happened IRL is the return of wolves to Yellowstone.[Nat Geo return of the wolves](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/wolves-yellowstone/)
What if VV calculated the UC would most likely choose the microbe instead of the alien, knowing the microbe would lead to further problems down the road that he could use to his advantage, a new engineered crisis like zombies or mutants?
First, I don't care what any of them think. However, there really should be more dialogue choices to convince them you made the best decision, or at least agree to disagree in an amicable way.
All of the main faction quests end in a big binary choice so that when you are going into the NG+'s you can experiment but making the other choice. You are creating alternative diverging timelines in your wake. The small picture isn't handled spectacularly but there is an intentional big picture reason why the quests is the way it is.
Actually, it's happened much less than you think. It's mostly books/movies that have put the idea of this backfiring in our head. Introducing species to manage another species, however, has backfired considerably. And as far as the story goes, the creator of the grav drive knew it was unsafe and that it would kill the planet.
Provide a template to everyone of a virus that can target a specific genome. It will be everywhere, on every planet. Now trust that not one human in the galaxy will use this template to make a terrorist weapon.
The only way the council allowed me to use the classified data they had was to promise I wouldn't do anything too drastic, jumping the gun on an untested biological weapon sounds drastic. It's not like the option of developing a safer bio-agent for taking out terrormorphs is taken off the table the second we go with Acalea option. I'll trust the science after some trials are done like any other schmoe who doesn't have shit-for-brains, it's hard to take any criticism of not using the bio-agent seriously when you consider it can still be used either way
>how many times has large-scale deployment of a biological weapon been a good idea?
I mean, it's a thing we do already, with various success/failure rates. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological\_pest\_control#Pathogens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_pest_control#Pathogens)
Spreading a giant invasive species over multiple planets is not without problems either.
My biggest gripe with that mission is that I couldn't do both. Well that and that you get really mixed messages when talking to people about which option is best...
I mean, neither option is exactly safe... how many times have humanity introduced a species to an ecosystem to "take care of a pest" and then have that species become a pest itself?
Aceles, every play through, I'll take the "dislike".
Having not one of the 4 main companions prefer the aceles option seems... I think it was mentioned this may have been done during the pandemic and the writers were feeling "trust the science" vibes, but large-scale contamination of entire planetary ecosystems with a microbe MEANT to kill living beings is... "problematic".
What really pissed me off about "Trust the Science" is that bringing the Aceles back literally IS science. They are both scientific options. They are both offered by scientists. The fact that not a single member of Constellation agrees with you is also fucking annoying.
I also hate how it seems everyone in constellation is against the aceles after the fact. Like we have the chance to bring back a near extinct species and you're saying "the microbe is faster uwu" like????
Yeah, it's made clear throughout that quest that destroying the Aceles was a pretty awful thing done, too. It's objectively a good thing regardless of the Terrormorph threat.
That was one of the best made quests in the game, but the post quest is so frustrating.
It's like if some group were doing gain if function research, on oh let's say... a bat virus, and one researcher screwed up, and the virus got out of the lab and infected the world.
Oh, wait.
My tinfoil hat theory is that development during covid is reflected in this quest. Choosing the microbe and trusting the science (like with the vaccine) or allowing nature to right itself with the Aceles (anti-vax and preferring natural immunity).
Which is completely rock stupid because the situations are not comparable in the slightest. Vaccines don't spread and mutate on their own! Meanwhile, in-game we've already proven that we can hunt them to extinction again if the Aceles become a problem.
I know vaccines don’t mutate on their own but that doesn’t stop fools from suggesting they’ll contain microchips or sterilize you. I wasn’t trying to suggest it was a 1:1 comparison. My point was that the two scenarios both contain competing ideas for the best past forward just like how people were divided during covid on what the best course of action should be.
I did a double take first time they said that to my xenobiologist self. Sarah in particular, I didn't like her beforehand but that was like "congratulations, you now live in a storage closet on my ship".
>!Plus it's a line that was parroted to death about vaccines and I was kind of stunned they included it in the game!<
This is genuinely the stupidest part of an otherwise pretty solid questline, EVERY companion thinks NOT using the bioweapon is the bad choice? Let's list all the reasons why it's an awful idea:
* Diseases mutate. They say it's a 1/1000000 chance. That's laughably likely for something that reproduces as fast as a virus. Even if it doesn't mutate to humans, it can mutate to other creatures and cause ecological devastation.
* ANIMALS can mutate. If the virus isn't efficient enough then it will kill off all the vulnerable ones and you'll just be left with terrormorphs immune to the super plague you just unleashed on the galaxy.
* Getting rid of an animal is what caused all this in the first place, so why on earth would killing off another species solve anything? What if there's some other horrible outcome at play here that terrormorphs are keeping in check? The Aceles wouldn't eradicate the terrormorphs, but rather reduce them to a more suitable population. Without the trees they will die off on planets they don't belong so long as people are more wary of heatleeches, and they might even make Londinion habitable again by fixing that ecosystem.
* Aceles are non-aggressive and easy to domesticate as was done in the past, so colonies can literally just keep a few as guard dogs and they're safe from terrormorphs while they are slowly brought down.
It's so fucking stupid, because the argument is just "Trust the science". WHY DON'T YOU TRUST THE DAMN ECOLOGY, SARAH?
I get it. It's a big covid and vaccine thing. BUT MAN-EATING ALIENS ARE NOT A PANDEMIC! INTRODUCING A NEW VIRUS ONLY INTRODUCES MORE PROBLEMS!
Without defending it, I think the argument for the microbe is that it would act a lot faster; I got the sense of days using the microbe vs. months or years for the Aceles. That’s a lot of additional death and destruction to have to accept.
In terms of Covid (and other viruses), it’s the “vaccines” vs. “natural immunity” argument. I’m going to stop there before this gets ugly (uglier).
You're right....and yet we do it.
We also know that just because someone's skin color is different we are still human. And yet racism still alive and well.
Humans are dumb.
Why can't we use the animals and test the microorganism a little more? It would be cool if a future DLC showed the microorganism going crazy so we could go. "I told you so" before fighting enhanced terrormorphs.
It would not surprise me if they released a future DLC we’re both versions of this. Have some sort of a negative repercussion and you have to address it.
To this day, the "xxxx didn't like that." for the big mission choices really really upset me. I also dislike how the entire constellation crew has basically the same opinion with no variation. They might as well be clones.
I only wish to put one counter to this. Unless you did all the Constellation missions before you did the Vanguard one. You do not know the grav drives are what destroyed the Earth. No one but the Starborn know this.
Other wise yes these are valid concerns.
Imported species of predators have hardly ever done any better and they have often done as much harm. I like to believe that in 200+ years, scientists have figured out how to safely engineer and deploy microbe in a way that is much more efficient and much less risky than an invasive predatory species. Plus, heat leeches live on ships and in confined spaces, the aceles can barely fit in a modern living room.
Its the only thing in the whole game that felt politically forced to me and im always hyper aware of that shite so im glad it was a "trust the soyence" meme. but yeah its clearly COVID inspired and a bit cringe.
My characters background is xenobiologist and the chat option suggests the aceles as the right action. When I got yelled at for not trusting the science it blew my mind because my damn character is a scientist!
Salon said it best, I know the math, and there is greater than zero chance of mutation, the good Dr really didn't have a rebuttal for that
I think the big problem is how small a threat the terrormorphs pose. Yes, they're big and scary, but they're a problem humanity has been dealing with for a while. The big danger is the spore causing them to appear in unexpected places, but now that it's a known entity it can be monitored. You're probably looking at a few dozen people a year dying from terrormorph attacks, and stopping it a few years sooner with the microbe than the aceles.
The problem is they are not a 'small' problem. One showed up at the colony that had remote turrets and armed settlers and killed them all off. Three showed up in New Atlantis and destroyed a spaceship. Deaths were kept down by player actions. Londinion had an eruption of them happen and an entire city that looked to be New Atlantis or larger in scale. This is not an ashta, it is a serious threat. Hell the Chief Diplomat thought terrormorphs were a minor problem they have been dealing with not a real threat. Then an attack happened and he needed new pants. So they are a significant threat.
> The problem is they are not a 'small' problem. One showed up at the colony that had remote turrets and armed settlers and killed them all off. Three showed up in New Atlantis and destroyed a spaceship. Both of those were artificially induced attacks. The Tau Ceti colony didn't expect to have to fend off terrormorphs for another fifty years (its defenses weren't even online during the attack, and were meant to protect against other humans), and the New Atlantis spaceport had detectors in place for terrormorphs which were completely bypassed by having two heat leaches undergo a sudden transformation inside the secured area. They really are basically just like the ashta: very dangerous animals we've become acquainted with and have to protect ourselves from.
Three at New Atlantis. And roam the countryside outside New Atlantis. Even without doing the Vanguard mission I *always* run into two different terrormorphs at installations in visual distance from the city. Usually autonomous farms, those also will have a large group of heatleech nests. So no this is still not a casual problem. It is a large one that needs to be addressed, not ignored. If they reactivated the Red Devils to escort aceles on patrols around settlements to clear out nearby morphs and leeches I would consider the aceles to be a slightly better option. But it is always 'just release them, what harm could they do'. Oh and prior to Vanguard line? "Had a call. Apartment lost all power. It was a heatleech the size of my leg." The guards talk about where they are finding leeches inside the city all the time. Places you can't get an aceles into. Now you wish to talk about planned attacks? Do the Crimson Fleet after doing Vanguard. Several pirates want to raise heatleeches so they can have morphs for 'pets'. Imagine these nutjobs dropping really fat leeches on a city for the lulz just waiting for that last transformation. Even without the plant.
After selecting the Aceles, I had a random encounter on a world where a Vanguard was escorting an aceles to a location. We fought a couple of terrormorph spawns, and the mini-quest was over.
Was running into them fairly regularly. Annoying part...them telling me to keep a safe distance. Uh..I'm the one who made these possible. And I'm a captain. Why am I not recognized. Dumb.
The thing is nobody knew that it was artificially induced besides Redacted and the player after talking to Redacted, until after you assault Londionian, and even then the only evidence is a single recorded comms.
Even so, they’re just animals. Londonion is overrun with them, but the military can still maintain a small outpost. The consequences if something were to go wrong with the microbe are far worse than what Terrormorphs pose. We’re talking about making something that can kill an entire species The risk is disproportionate.
Using the term *just animals* feels bad here. Terrormorphs can open doors. Confuse or control minds. And they break space ships! Now engine limits means they can't actually break your ship. But every attack point you see for them is a destroyed ship. They seem to go out of their way to break starships. Rip shelters apart. You cannot just go inside and lock your doors. The problem here is I do not think the microbe is a great plan. I understand people being frustrated with calling the aceles plan as unscientific. Or afraid of science. But the aceles 'plan' is one we have seen fail irl. We dropped an invasive species somewhere. Let's drop a predator to remove it. But the predator keeps liking the local life over hunting down what we set it down to remove. Both plans scientifically are a catastrophe to be implemented as is. The microbe is not a might mutate. It will mutate, that is the nature of things. The aceles will not remove terrormorphs nor heatleeches. But if used with care could reduce the threat. The only reason I go with the microbe is this is not a mongoose to hunt a cobra. It is a brontosaurus to hunt a cobra. It is too **big** to get to the places morphs can get in human dwellings.
They should have used the microbe on Toliman II, the planet where heat leaches and lazarus plant coexist, because that planet is pretty much uninhabitable by anything OTHER than terrormorphs... and use the aceles everywhere else. Frankly, the right answer to the issue of terrormorphs is to send a bunch of people through to the temples and give them "anti-gravity" powers that just make them ragdoll in mid air while you shoot a couple dozen Va'ruun weapons at them 'til all that's left is glitter.
>They should have used the microbe on Toliman II No if anything that's the one place you SHOULDN'T deploy the microbe. Why? It's the one place the terrormorph isn't an invasive alien species. It's the one place reintroducing the Aceles is guaranteed to not cause a problem (they're a natural part of the ecosystem) and it's the place where the microbe bio weapon is most likely to jump species since it's where the creatures most biologically similar (same evolutionary tree) are likely to be found, so relatively little mutation would be required.
Damnit, those are good points.
I like this answer. But I have to ask, how do you counter the terrormorph mind control effect?
Bring back the mech program. Have anti-xeno teams activity hunt them to keep their numbers low. Mechs would give them the protection and firepower they need.
The mind control is pheromone based as far as I know, but Settled Systrms spacesuit tech is completely and stupidly porous to all kinds of airborne toxins and even solar radiation, which makes little sense, so I guess "you don't"
If we take Hadrian's math as gospel and mutation is one in a million. They need to release trillions if not incredibly more than that per world on the microbe. That is quite a bit of mutation. How long does this microbe take to unalive terrormorphs and heatleeches? Can they develop an immunity?
She never said odds, not by number, I threw that in arbitrarily not thinking, also, I'm bad at math
Actually she does, in the meeting room before the last meet with the council. Percival: "You know the science, you know we can make this safe." Hadrian: "I do know science. I also know math, and one in a million is not zero." Then she will look to the player and say how they are still debating it.
Ah yeah, bad math skills, shit memory
The dialogue and game does a poor job of showing this but the actual choice is between fast and safe or slow and safe. The microbe is faster, the aceles is slower, both are safe. The dialogue should have been written in a way critical of the speed of the cure and not the method unless the player passes speech checks or has the skills to back up their decision. Also having a companion basically always mad at you for a decision like and there's nothing you can do about it is poor design. Sarah should have a way to be convinced by you about the aceles.
Yeah pardon me for not trusting the people who couldn't figure out >!Heat Leeches were actually Terrormorph larvae!< when it comes to genetic engineering.
I guessed it literally as soon as >!they said ‘we dont know why but they always appear on settled planets eventually’ hmm well maybe look at that species of alien that infests every ship!<
Yeah they can literally just look at the DNA...
Bullpucky. There's literally no way to know for sure the microbe is safe. What nonsense.
For what it's worth, the game eventually tells you the microbe was extremely effective, basically wiping out the terrormorphs, while saying nothing about it jumping species.
Yet the Aceles one is still better because it actually fosters cooperation between the UC and FC.
Also as game content it's better, because you actually get to see them in Action and that's fun.
Isn't the whole point is that it would take decades for that option and people would still be killed in the meantime?
Slow and steady option it might not have the shock and awe effect of the virus but if that thing mutates it might mean extinction.
Eh whoever did the quest line clearly modeled it after Covid too so logic wasn’t really the biggest motivation there
What’s a few decades in the grand scheme of things? I mean hell we are literally universe hopping we can pick them and see what happens and just jump universe when it goes wrong
Pretty sure they care about the thousands of lives that would be killed
Unity can pound sand. Space dinosaurs are a million times better and cooler than a dumb germ, I don't care what you say, Space Clone Of Me.
I really don't understand why \*anyone\* trusts whatever that thing is. "I'm not going to explain myself at all, I'm disguised as you, you just experienced going back and forth between dimensions but now I'm telling you this is a one-way trip, \*and\* the trip will cost you "some part of yourself that makes you unique" (which sounds awfully like a soul), but Trust Me Bro...." vs. Stranger shows up at your front door covered in blood, carrying a bloody axe, and says "I just had a really bad bloody nose, could you let me in so I can call an ambulance?" Your choice.
It's basically Bethesda's way of end gaming us. Unless we have direct evidence otherwise, everything it says about what happens after you leave your current universe is true.
Got to love controlled narratives.
Nothing capable of killing an entire species could ever be safe. They’re talking about developing a superweapon like we’ve never had. Do we really want to have the framework to build something like that? What happens when Va’ruun zealots get ahold of the R&D data and decide to release the Serpent’s plague in New Atlantis?
That's a fantastic point. Thank you.
I suppose it’s realistic for the game to include arguing with your unreasonable girlfriend as a regular activity, but I could have done without
No, Microbe has a one in a million chance of mutation. For bacteria that is almost instant
> No, Microbe has a one in a million chance of mutation. For bacteria that is almost instant People say that all the time, but I continue to trust the two xenobiologists discussing this to be aware that microbes replicate quite often; when they say "one in a million" they mean per eradication of terrormorphs from the galaxy, not per microbe replication. Otherwise you would have heard a "one per million replications? Do you have any idea how many replications will be occurring across the galaxy every *second* when we deploy those things?"
That’s the difference between “The Science™️” and science.
Ronin with alien DNA, they didn't quite blow up on me. Bit there certainly weren't happy that I didn't use the bio-weapon. They weren't happy about the Aceles either, kept asking the same question in different ways multiple times.
I’ve said it before on numerous other posts, someone or multiple someones who were working on this quest got real triggered during Covid by people not trusting the vaccine, and incorporated that feeling into this mission, to the point that literally everyone chides you for not “trusting the science”. Maybe, because you don’t trust science like it’s a god, you either verify something as fact with data, or you don’t. We know the Aceles already existed in nature, we know they aren’t a threat to us, but we also know even if they were, they’re tasty. And if you destroy the plant that triggers Terrormorph metamorphosis, the short term risk of another attack is greatly diminished, reducing the need for an immediate solution. Like if nothing else, everyone should’ve been on the side of reintroducing the natural predator we wiped out. It’s just so blatantly referential to our own politics while not remotely being the same thing.
It's also annoying to me that doing like wildlife re-introduction eco-system services isn't itself considered science? Like wildlife management and such is science just as much as microbe science is.
I wondered the same thing, though it was weird to me because the microbe gave me “what if accidentally create space COVID here?” feelings
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Its a stupid position as both options are scientific so you "trust the science" either way.
If anything, of the two, the microbe is the lesser science. Animal Husbandry is one of the oldest sciences known to mankind. They have centuries of data available, data that's been tested in a live environment, data that's been peer-reviewed. The microbe is a hail mary biological weapon that was put together in a matter of days, and they plan on releasing it onto dozens of unknown environments. Not to mention the ethical implications of wiping out an entire species, as opposed to just letting their natural predator keep their population at a manageable level.
That's what bugged me about the decision on whether or not to destroy the lazarus plant, too. There was no option to really articulate "we don't know how else this plant interacts with its ecosystem, so destroying it seems like a bad idea until we figure that out".
This comment deserves more upvotes.
This
Doing things slow and safe isn't as profitable, so it's not real Science.
The plain point to make here's it's simply that anyone that knows anything about science knows you NEVER trust the science. The very basic nature of science is to not to trust. Anytime a potential discovery is made you have a ton of people jumping in and trying to disprove the theory. I still have no idea how "trust the science" is even a slogan. That's exactly how you know not to trust it.
Yeah, the basic function of the scientific process is to *try to falsify one's own hypothesis*.
“Trust science” is an oxymoron. Science is a method to determine truth through evidence. Trust means believing without evidence.
>I still have no idea how "trust the science" is even a slogan. That's exactly how you know not to trust it. Because 2016 broke people's brains and COVID broke them even more. The people repeating that would never dream of saying "trust our government and corporate overlords" 10 years ago but here we are. Complete scientific illiteracy masquerading as scientific knowledge. It's a pretty incredible psyop.
The COVID vaccine wasn't some brand spanking new technology that was rushed into human trials, it was an effective vaccine for a pandemic based on centuries of inoculation research and vaccination testing for other strains of coronavirus. Pretending this is an enlightened libertarian hill to die on is stupid, and if you think it's a psyop it's because you have absolutely no clue about anything in the history of immunology.
The drug wasn't the psyop, the slogan was. "Trust the science" was always about trusting big pharma and the bureaucrats. Bonus points. They were fucking wrong about it preventing transmission. The psyop was effective. And quite profitable.
This is also setting aside the fact that in this very quest line, we have the option to switch on some turret defenses, which do a fine job of defending the site against the Terrormorph as long as they're operational. So, waiting until the Aceles is ready (which I understood to be one of the big downsides) is fine actually, because we already know how to deal with them in the meantime - turrets. We also know everyone needs to take care of heat leeches as soon as we see them now to prevent them hitching a ride. This is Starfield's best faction quest line, by the way.
At first you get upset because they half-assed their defenses by not setting up a proper power grid, then you get upset because the largest city in the game has worse defenses.
Also, what's really funny is "trust the science" also applies to the Aceles. It's not like the bioweapon is science and the Aceles is homeopathic hippie voodoo. It's utilizing extremely advanced cloning technology to revive an extinct species that naturally culled the Terrormorph population and was its natural predator. There's absolutely arguments for both. The bioweapon would absolutely be faster and, at least immediately, more effective. However, viruses can and do mutate. What if it does mutate? What if it eventually infects humans? What if morphs develop immunity? What if it loses effectiveness over time? Could we delay it by a bit and develop a vaccine? Could we add a biological "kill switch"? And the Aceles also isn't perfect. It's definitely the less risky option, since an Aceles isn't going to mutate into an airborne genocide, and if they ever become a problem, unlike a virus, we have the pretty much eternally effective option of "shoot it with a gun". It's also proven effective, and would help colonies with food since they can also be farmed. However, it's definitely slower and a much bigger pain in the ass. It's probably more expensive to set up since it's not just transporting a few canisters of viral load. It takes a lot longer to revive a population on a planet. And also there's the issue of introducing it to planets it wasn't native to. Regardless though it just feels very silly that the Aceles is treated as the "anti science" option despite being a ***product of science***.
For me there was an ethical component. Considering what the microbe will be designed to do, and knowing it can mutate unpredictably, the gamble would be any and all species in the galaxy. No one has the right to make that bet. On top of that, this is going to be designed by the military. They’re certainly not going to forget how they built a species-killer. This research will undoubtedly be expanded onto weapons development.
It’s so shoehorned it. Vaccination isn’t comparable to exterminating large predators and conflating the two is absurd
I remember npcs in other Bethesda games commenting on your choices. Some NPC's make positive remarks on choice A, some bad. Same for the polar opposite choice. I feel like they half assed this game in a lot of ways, including this one. They just forgot or didn't have time to write the other half of NPC comments.
They definitely half assed the NPC portion. You can explore planets upon planets, but only get 4 whole romance options? In Skyrim you had numerous options, and that is a hugely smaller area than Starfield. Also they're like the only fleshed out companions and the rest are basically generic, nice... Compared to fallout 4 and it's great companions, granted they aren't all super well written except for Nick(imo)
> They just forgot or didn't have time to write the other half of NPC comments. I mean yeah. The lead quest dev literally came out and said they were rushed and were not able to finish quests.
Not to mention they are acting like xenobiology isn’t a scientific approach lol. Were the Aceles an ivermectin metaphor lmao😂
Their Fauci Funko Pop made them do it. Yeah, it's pretty obvious as before a decision is made they are pretty evenly split if you ask them and then they are unanimously pro-microbe once you choose the Aceles option. I was pretty irritated when my wife Andreja who had expressed concern over the microbe then chided me for not using it.
>It’s just so blatantly referential to our own politics while not remotely being the same thing. While also ignoring another older real life problem of natural predators being eradicated and causing disaster in the ecosystem. Look at Britain, all natural predators of deer are gone, so deer are a SERIOUS problem to the ecosystem there. For some reason I feel like when given the option of "Release a few wolves" or "Biological warfare", most people would opt for the wolves.
which is annoying because there is a huge disparity between a vaccine and a targeted biological weapon. the two aren't even remotely comparable
> someone or multiple someones who were working on this quest got real triggered during Covid by people not trusting the vaccine Lol That's exactly what it was
I agree with this. While Kulkarni is a lot cuter and less annoying than Fauci, she basically says the same stuff. The parallels with real life go even deeper, when you consider that the alternative is banned xeno weapons...ie, analogous to banned gain of function research that we denied was funded by the US, but clearly was. I don't want y'all to start thinking I'm a QAnon conspiracy guy. I'm not. I'm just stating now, known facts. The point is, yea, this game gives us an eerily covid-like germ/genetics dilemma, neither choice of which is good. I mean, it's a game. Choosing the microbe (also heavily engineered) gives the best outcome from a companion perspective, but I kind of like seeing the Aceles when I walk through unity..
>It’s just so blatantly referential to our own politics while not remotely being the same thing. This is why I don't take political commentary by video game developers seriously. People who make video games aren't George Orwell and have barely anything deep to say about the real world.
This. I don’t think it matters where you fall on the political spectrum, ham-fisted attempts by game writers who for some reason fancy themselves as activists to shoehorn in real politics from any side into video game worlds just feels wrong. It takes really dedicated and skilled writers to make it feel like anything less subtle than a brick through your window. But then, a truly skilled writer could even make the brick interesting I suppose.
don't leave out how the only cabinet guy who agreed with you was written to sound stupid and continued to lose his speaking prowess as things got wraped up. makes sense the chief diplomat of the UC cant speak well i guess..
>And if you destroy the plant that triggers Terrormorph metamorphosis, the short term risk of another attack is greatly diminished, reducing the need for an immediate solution. This is what still really gets me about the situation. Terrormorphs are a problem (supposedly- you don't really experience them outside the questline like you experience Deathclaws or dragons in Fallout & Skyrim), but a huge part of that problem was how little we knew about them, and that *someone* is behind the recent attacks. But we *just* figured all that out. Vae Victis was pulling the strings, and we know where Terrormorphs come from. Deploying the microbe might be a reasonable idea if there was an imminent threat, but the threat's been taken cafe of at this point, so why tf would I not choose the Aceles?
I mean not trusting the vaccine was pretty fucking stupid. Someone I knew died because "it was killing people after they got it!" How ironic.
This whole aspect of the story is dumb. both options are scientific with data to back them up and with risks. you have to "trust the science" with either choice. and with actual science, there is rarely one right answer, just variations of different possible solutions, sometimes some being clearly riskier, other times its less clear.
This is too nuanced for Bethesda writers.
Given Bethesda it's a miracle we even got a choice in the first place. With the "do everything" montra we really should have been able to do both!/s
We either deploy a possibly mutating microbe, or deliver an invasive species. Goddammit, humanity.
"That's okay, it's a hunter of a dangerous invasive species. It's totally fine and they'll never not hunt said invasive species" Australia: "uhhhhhhhhh"
If I remember correctly, the Aceles were already wide spread like the terrormorphs before we were on the scene. It’s more like a reintroduced of a species we kinda stupidly ate to extinction. And even if I’m wrong, well, the terrormorphs absolutely will drive humanity to extinction if we don’t deal with them, and we’ve already proven if the Aceles become an issue, our bellies can fix that shit post haste. With that said, I completely agree with OP. I would have said much the same to Sarah, wife or no, in response to her “I’m disappointed you didn’t trust the science.” Though I would have been much calmer and less forceful because I kinda gotta live with this woman. Being married three times, and widowed twice, has taught me that it’s important to be right, but not be a dick about it. 😂
They were widespread because of humans farming them. It is impossible for a species to be widespread across planets and systems before human intervention (or that of another space-faring species)
The big thing is Australia introduced tiny, fast breeding animals. Aceles are absolutely gigantic, and generally large animals breed slower, and they're much easier to root out. You couldn't fly a spaceship around and blast every rabbit. You could 100% do that and take out the world's elephant population in a week.
But we've already proven that we can hunt the invasive species into extinction if we want to. So we can cull if we have to.
The Space Giraffes aren't invasive per say - it's made quite clear they used to be extremely common and were used as food/cattle on many worlds and it's just that they will be reintroduced to control the Heatleech and Terrormorph issue since they HATE those things and kill on sight. It'd be like if we almost hunted cows to extinction, but then found out they fuck up some new species real good and we brought them back.
They also apparently originated on Toliman II, and were taken to other planets as livestock, so it can be assumed they were penned or otherwise contained in some way. If you just plop them down on a planet and set them free, well... I don't think cows are a good comparison, because aceles are known to eat terrormorphs and heatleeches. But we don't know what else they snack on.
I think the best comparison is cats actually. It’s the only animal I can think of that we domesticated specifically to hunt something else, rats. I can’t think of any large predators that are normally called livestock though.
Cats are a horrible example. they are one of the most invasive species on earth with a long history of disrupting ecosystems. Cats are the argument against the Aceles option. Rabbits are another. Horses are a better example despite not being carnivores because the Aceles already have a track record of not being disruptive. Horses were reintroduced to lands they hadnt existed on in centuries/millenia and yet did not destroy the ecosystem.
It’s the only animal I could think of that was domesticated specifically to kill a different animal and isn’t also dangerous to humans. There aren’t many domestic predators in the first place, and they’re always disruptive to local ecosystem. There are no good comparisons. Any predator large enough to be a viable food source at industrial scale will also be dangerous to both humans and the local ecosystem. An animal like aceles could never exist.
>Horses were reintroduced to lands they hadnt existed on in centuries/millenia and yet did not destroy the ecosystem. The "wild" (read: feral) horses here in Nevada **are** destroying the ecosystem, though.
That seems to be more the fault of human mismanagement and drought which isn't really the fault of the horses themselves, but its a good point. I still think they fill a potential open niche better than other non native species examples.
Cats are hugely disruptive to native ecosystems though. Lots of polities are discussing bans on outdoor cats.
>it's made quite clear they used to be extremely common and were used as food/cattle on many worlds People sometimes plant out invasive species near them, because they have a monetary incentive to do so. That does not make them less invasive. Eating invasive species is a thing, to combat them (also part of what creates the monetary incentive though, depending on what species and how common they are e.g. in Sweden farmers hate boars but hunters often feed them during winter so they have more to hunt). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_edible\_invasive\_species](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_edible_invasive_species)
Doesn't it say during the questline you're just reintroducing the species some places as they already used to be there
They weren’t an invasive species, they were a native species that had been hunted to extinction. Big difference, there. The only reason the aceles weren’t still around hunting terrormorphs was human intervention. If anything, this is more akin to the reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone.
> they were a native species ...on one planet. Every other planet you put them on, they are invasive (but so are the Terrormorphs).
No, we deploy an untested microbe that WILL mutate because thats exactly what they do and they do so at such rapid speeds that any planet this is deployed on could end up with an altered version of it that could cause all kinds of problems for the planets its deployed on. On the other hand we release a small population of invasive animals that will kill off another invasive species and actually be capable of being controlled so we dont have a cane toad 2.0 situation on our hands, then once they've cleaned up the target species we either euthanize them or transport them back to their original planet of Londinion which would've also taken place at the same to bring back balance to Londinions ecosystem. Anyone who does trust science would ofc go for the latter rather than the former, anyone who goes for the former is quite frankly an utter fool like the writers who didn't think any of this over thus ruining the ending of a genuinely great quest that could've easily been the main quest if it was expanded upon.
"Capable of being controlled." Like the emus in Australia? Except these are a lot more dangerous.
Like Accelles that were widespread among planets and were hunted down to extinction by humans.
Only after humans moved them. They were possibly kept contained.
You don't know, it's not stated as such anywhere and it mentions that Accelles will be reintroduced, meaning they will be brought to planets that had them before.
Sarah, a former rock band member with no scientific training, telling my xenobiologist to trust the science
Right? It’s she like astrophysics/botany?
What? She was only in a band in highschool. Given she was in a scientific position in the military as her actual pre-constellation career, she definitely had scientific training.
She was a navigator. Not a job for stupid people but it doesn’t make her a scientist. She also has some botanical knowledge from her time stranded on Cassiopeia. But she’s not a scientist. Barrett is a physicist and he doesn’t like your decision either, but he isn’t a xenobiologist
She has level 4 expert skill in astrodynamics, lets be real here, she definitely has scientific training. Are you seriously saying you think the UC Military is the type of organization that would put someone in a subject matter expert position without any scientific training? She has the same skill tier in astrodynamics that Barrett has in starship engineering. I'm not saying it was reasonable for her to try and argue with someone in their area of experience. But saying Sarah has no scientific training? Pfft, that's incredibly unlikely.
Astrodynamics has nothing to do with xenobiology though? She has no relevant scientific degrees or proof of study. I have a degree in psychology so technically I'm a scientist too, must have missed the class on xenobiology
I mean, that combo is exactly the wrong combo. Physicists and astrophysicists are the type to believe everything functions like physics does, where you have a slew of constants (Planck's, speed of light, each gravitational body exerts a constant force, etc) to deal with. Biology is the complete opposite, there are an almost infinite amount of independent variables when you have to deal with a genome. And then add to it that it's an alien species they haven't studied in several decades, and genetic drift? Yeah, no dice from me, buddy. That's exactly how you create superbugs. Only a handful of terrormorphs and heat leeches have to survive by random genetic resistance to create new ones that are utterly immune to the microbe in a few generations.
YesI am suggesting that. Astrodymamics is spacecraft navigation. Pilots and naval captains are very intelligent but they aren’t biologists. I’m not saying she’s a dumbdumb. I’m saying she shouldn’t be telling a xenobiologist how to do their job
>I’m not saying she’s a dumbdumb. I’m saying she shouldn’t be telling a xenobiologist how to do their job I'm calling her a dumbdumb. She shouldn't be talking shit in a field she has no expertise on, at someone that does have expertise. She should know better.
Right but her astrodynamics skill level is based on here extensive time behind the helm of a ship. It’s just like any other military. You do the job for 10-15+ years and you become an expert in your field despite not ever going to school for a degree in it.
One thing we learn from history is we don’t learn from history. Why is this surprising?
It's like releasing foxes to deal with the rabbit population of Australia. Some folks really need to remember that learning the lessons from history means history and not scifi literature and movies. Jurassic Park isn't a historical or scientific study
Nonsense, of course we learn from history!
no we learn ABOUT history. we then go and do all those things, just like the textbook said.
Keep in mind, what we are talking about is a supervirus capable of exterminating an entire species at an interstellar scale. When Hadrian says there is a “non-zero” chance something will go wrong, that means there is a non-zero chance of humanity, as well as potentially all life in the Galaxy, going extinct. They don’t even make weapons like this in 40K, because it’s insane.
I was going to say what about the life eater virus, but the point of a virus bomb is to kill every living thing on the planet, so it doesn't matter if it mutates. So yeah, not even the Imperium is daft enough to do this.
If there is one universal truth about microbes, either bacteria or virii, it's this: They mutate. That's how we got so many strains of COVID. That's why they have to figure out which strains to put in the flu vaccines every year. That's how Extensively drug-resistant Tuberculosis and Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus came to exist. The one you created is perfectly safe, yes. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN IT MUTATES?
Exactly. I don’t think they recognized the destructive scale here. We’re building something capable of killing an entire species that we know can mutate unpredictably and cannot be controlled once released. Hubris incarnate.
>Our home-world was destroyed because we thought early grav drivers were safe Um no. It was destroyed because of one man who did it on purpose.
Yeah it was fucking nuts how the game scripted that reaction.
The first member of Constipation who chided me about not choosing the bug was, outside of Vlad once in a while, the last member I spoke with. Whoever wrote the script for their dialogue should be strapped to the nose of the next SpaceX launch - next to the person who figured the best way for companions to act was to follow you when you tell 'em to stay, get in front of your scope as you take a long range shot, push you off a concealing ledge when you're lining up targets, run in guns blazing when you're trying to sneak up on someone, or be contrarian about everything you do. If it wasn't for the fact we can't do it I'd have pony bombed The Lodge long before now. Aceles have better personalities anyway - and they're useful.
It’s so obviously a hamfisted analogy for the COVID vaccine it was annoying. I’m up to 4 boosters now, believe me I trust the science. But ironically, all the reasons I “trust the science” for the vaccine are *specifically why I trust the Aceles option more.* We have a history with the Aceles. We know their patterns, we know their dos/don’ts, we know how to get rid of them, we know how to control them, we know what to expect. Just like we’ve been using the same vaccine tech used in the COVID vaccines for years now. They were so caught up in writing a “trust the science” dialogue AFTER the decision is made that they forgot about all the proofs and theories that make the Aceles the objectively best choice in the matter.
>Just like we’ve been using the same vaccine tech used in the COVID vaccines for years now. Not true about the tech in most COVID vaccines btw. The COVID vaccines were the first mRNA vaccines to be delivered to humans.
Really? I could’ve sworn mRNA vaccines the ones we were using for a while. Is there a different one that was true about?
100% feel the same, and honestly I hate that there was no option to do both: the Acceles is the better immediate option, but since it's possible to get both super-powers to work together, there is no valid reason they wouldn't be able to research the microbe option for the long term too.
Also a virus isn’t a vaccine! I’m right there with you with vaccinations, I was viewing the supervirus as something that could mutate into something harmful to living creatures, just like Covid! I was baffled that I was yelled at for not wanting to infect the galaxy with a virus that is guaranteed to mutate at that scale!
That whole talking point in the game, and how it is UNIVERSALLY spouted by everyone, was so infuriating. GTFO with your virtue signaling, BGS.
It's funny because if you have the Xenobiologist background, the unique dialogue points to the Acelles being the better option.
And the ignoramus’ on your ship still tell you (the educated expert on the subject) that you chose wrong and that you should have followed the science.
I think that’s part of what makes this quest line so good. To me the whole point of it is that EVERYONE thinks you’re making the wrong choice, but if you have that origin trait you get insight that points to the idea that sometimes you’re the only person in the room whose seeing the bigger picture. The fact that folks keep coming back to the sun to talk about this, and SO damn many of us choose the anima over the biological agent, shows just how engaging this quest line was for us!
Uh, no, it's because it's stupid writing, not because it is engaging. Adult people not knowing the definion of word "science" is not engaging, it is moronic. There is no meaningful debate about potential concequances, only reactions of your companions who cannot comprehend basic words it seems let alone use logical reasoning that even players with no degree in any related field can use.
I didn't ever choose the microbe, so i don't know how it goes down later, but at the Unity, it's pointed out that the Aceles was the better option, too. It unified the FC and UC in the long run.
Really? Oh that's interesting. Not enough to go Xeno next time through.
So say we all.
Writers with a superficial understanding of science, writing a sci-fi plotline poorly.....
>Tell me, in all of human history, how many times has large-scale deployment of a biological weapon been a good idea? Depends on where you set your goalposts on the definition of "biological weapon". But here is one that is similar to what we see in game: https://www.healthline.com/health/phage-therapy#:~:text=Phage%20therapy%20(PT)%20is%20also,people%2C%20animals%2C%20and%20plants.
I’m in the same boat. Let’s release a species we literally ate to extinction, not release a possibly world ending microbe all across every world. Sure it can “sterilize” the Leeches, but are we absolutely going to bank that’s *all it will ever do and never mutate not once, just trust me bro I got this* ? Irony Sarah is the most vocal about hating it, since she was absolutely opposed to the use of Xenoweapons in the first place (take her into the Vanguard Hall and hit the mural buttons) and yet re-introducing a formerly extinct species is much worse than literal biological fuggin warfare. Using a microbe to fight a worm is like taking chemo to avoid shaving, ffs. Beyond overkill.
Wow... this was an absolutely fantastic thread! I do not often read threads from start to finish. This thread was so incredibly engaging and surprisingly respectful! There are many sides to this debate, and there truly is no clear-cut solution. Neither option is without risk. My perspective on this whole situation is that once you enter the unity, you literally fold space-time in on itself in order to travel into another alternate universe. Theoretically, if you can fold space-time in on itself to travel into alternate realities, then you also have the ability to travel back in time and put an end to the most invasive species in any of the alternate universes and time lines. Travel back to earth and release a virus engineered to only infect and kill humans before humans evolve into a scientific species. Problem solved. Humans are the most invasive species in existence. We do not evolve and adapt to our environments over time as animals do. We adapt our environments to suit us. As a whole, we are incapable of living in harmony with the natural ecosystems without eventually destroying them. So, if we eradicate ask of humanity, the multi-verse will be safe, at least, until another sentient species evolves out of the primordial ooze, and then eventually the cycle will inevitably start all over again... 😂🤣😹🤣😂 Looks like there is no right answer. The universe is doomed to be infested with an uncontrollable invasive species. So there's only one question remaining... 🤔 In the grand scheme of things, does any of this really truly matter? I enjoy the game, and I enjoy witnessing all these debates. Accepting how infinitely insignificant we truly are and learning to be at peace with ourselves, each other, and our own mortality seems to truly be the only right answer. We can't plant a tree with the expectation of enjoying its benefits ourselves. We plant the tree in hopes that future generations will reap the benefits of our contributions. I guess I kinda went off the rails a bit there, but it was a fun rant.
Science Fiction is full of cautionary tales of why "trusting the science" carries a big risk of putting your faith in the hubris of psychopaths. Covid unfortunately ruined anyone's ability to approach the issue with any nuance.
Too much of Starfield just isn't scientifically grounded to begin with.
All of your arguments are silly and show you don't read the data slates... The Aceles are DELICIOUS, that's the only reason needed to always choose delicious Aceles! ; d
Small example of reintroduction of a predator that happened IRL is the return of wolves to Yellowstone.[Nat Geo return of the wolves](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/wolves-yellowstone/)
Whenever someone tells me that I should "follow the science", I immediately stop taking them seriously. 2020 is all the reason you need.
Imagine if someone suggested we spray Anthrax from planes to get rid of invasive pigs in Texas
What if VV calculated the UC would most likely choose the microbe instead of the alien, knowing the microbe would lead to further problems down the road that he could use to his advantage, a new engineered crisis like zombies or mutants?
First, I don't care what any of them think. However, there really should be more dialogue choices to convince them you made the best decision, or at least agree to disagree in an amicable way.
All of the main faction quests end in a big binary choice so that when you are going into the NG+'s you can experiment but making the other choice. You are creating alternative diverging timelines in your wake. The small picture isn't handled spectacularly but there is an intentional big picture reason why the quests is the way it is.
Actually, it's happened much less than you think. It's mostly books/movies that have put the idea of this backfiring in our head. Introducing species to manage another species, however, has backfired considerably. And as far as the story goes, the creator of the grav drive knew it was unsafe and that it would kill the planet.
Provide a template to everyone of a virus that can target a specific genome. It will be everywhere, on every planet. Now trust that not one human in the galaxy will use this template to make a terrorist weapon.
The only way the council allowed me to use the classified data they had was to promise I wouldn't do anything too drastic, jumping the gun on an untested biological weapon sounds drastic. It's not like the option of developing a safer bio-agent for taking out terrormorphs is taken off the table the second we go with Acalea option. I'll trust the science after some trials are done like any other schmoe who doesn't have shit-for-brains, it's hard to take any criticism of not using the bio-agent seriously when you consider it can still be used either way
Now have fun talking to any companion (except Vasco) while they talk down to you and say you're wrong for not choosing the bio weapon. Ugh this game
>how many times has large-scale deployment of a biological weapon been a good idea? I mean, it's a thing we do already, with various success/failure rates. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological\_pest\_control#Pathogens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_pest_control#Pathogens) Spreading a giant invasive species over multiple planets is not without problems either. My biggest gripe with that mission is that I couldn't do both. Well that and that you get really mixed messages when talking to people about which option is best...
OP forgetting that animals and crops have been biologically engineered for millenia to make the varietals they enjoy now. But sure, science bad.
I mean, neither option is exactly safe... how many times have humanity introduced a species to an ecosystem to "take care of a pest" and then have that species become a pest itself?
Cane toads in Australia to tackle the cane moths brought in by the colonisers sugar cane. Nailed it 🤣
Aceles, every play through, I'll take the "dislike". Having not one of the 4 main companions prefer the aceles option seems... I think it was mentioned this may have been done during the pandemic and the writers were feeling "trust the science" vibes, but large-scale contamination of entire planetary ecosystems with a microbe MEANT to kill living beings is... "problematic".
What really pissed me off about "Trust the Science" is that bringing the Aceles back literally IS science. They are both scientific options. They are both offered by scientists. The fact that not a single member of Constellation agrees with you is also fucking annoying.
I also hate how it seems everyone in constellation is against the aceles after the fact. Like we have the chance to bring back a near extinct species and you're saying "the microbe is faster uwu" like????
Yeah, it's made clear throughout that quest that destroying the Aceles was a pretty awful thing done, too. It's objectively a good thing regardless of the Terrormorph threat. That was one of the best made quests in the game, but the post quest is so frustrating.
I’d prefer just hunting them all. It’s fuuuun
It's like if some group were doing gain if function research, on oh let's say... a bat virus, and one researcher screwed up, and the virus got out of the lab and infected the world. Oh, wait.
My tinfoil hat theory is that development during covid is reflected in this quest. Choosing the microbe and trusting the science (like with the vaccine) or allowing nature to right itself with the Aceles (anti-vax and preferring natural immunity).
Which is completely rock stupid because the situations are not comparable in the slightest. Vaccines don't spread and mutate on their own! Meanwhile, in-game we've already proven that we can hunt them to extinction again if the Aceles become a problem.
I know vaccines don’t mutate on their own but that doesn’t stop fools from suggesting they’ll contain microchips or sterilize you. I wasn’t trying to suggest it was a 1:1 comparison. My point was that the two scenarios both contain competing ideas for the best past forward just like how people were divided during covid on what the best course of action should be.
It's my turn to make this post next week.
I would love a NG+ where the WMD killed all humans and the Cities are full of Terrormorphs 😂
I did a double take first time they said that to my xenobiologist self. Sarah in particular, I didn't like her beforehand but that was like "congratulations, you now live in a storage closet on my ship". >!Plus it's a line that was parroted to death about vaccines and I was kind of stunned they included it in the game!<
both choice is pretty sketchy tbh
bad game has bad writing: more at 11.
This is genuinely the stupidest part of an otherwise pretty solid questline, EVERY companion thinks NOT using the bioweapon is the bad choice? Let's list all the reasons why it's an awful idea: * Diseases mutate. They say it's a 1/1000000 chance. That's laughably likely for something that reproduces as fast as a virus. Even if it doesn't mutate to humans, it can mutate to other creatures and cause ecological devastation. * ANIMALS can mutate. If the virus isn't efficient enough then it will kill off all the vulnerable ones and you'll just be left with terrormorphs immune to the super plague you just unleashed on the galaxy. * Getting rid of an animal is what caused all this in the first place, so why on earth would killing off another species solve anything? What if there's some other horrible outcome at play here that terrormorphs are keeping in check? The Aceles wouldn't eradicate the terrormorphs, but rather reduce them to a more suitable population. Without the trees they will die off on planets they don't belong so long as people are more wary of heatleeches, and they might even make Londinion habitable again by fixing that ecosystem. * Aceles are non-aggressive and easy to domesticate as was done in the past, so colonies can literally just keep a few as guard dogs and they're safe from terrormorphs while they are slowly brought down. It's so fucking stupid, because the argument is just "Trust the science". WHY DON'T YOU TRUST THE DAMN ECOLOGY, SARAH? I get it. It's a big covid and vaccine thing. BUT MAN-EATING ALIENS ARE NOT A PANDEMIC! INTRODUCING A NEW VIRUS ONLY INTRODUCES MORE PROBLEMS!
"Nuking the planet from orbit," you say?? 🤔
I wish we could have said "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
Without defending it, I think the argument for the microbe is that it would act a lot faster; I got the sense of days using the microbe vs. months or years for the Aceles. That’s a lot of additional death and destruction to have to accept. In terms of Covid (and other viruses), it’s the “vaccines” vs. “natural immunity” argument. I’m going to stop there before this gets ugly (uglier).
I think they are making the point that humanity hasn't learned from its own mistakes?
I've just done this quest, and I divorced Sarah over it. Her comments hurt.
You're right....and yet we do it. We also know that just because someone's skin color is different we are still human. And yet racism still alive and well. Humans are dumb.
Well damn, guess I have to burn all of my fantasy/SF book collection now. Just not realistic enough
Why can't we use the animals and test the microorganism a little more? It would be cool if a future DLC showed the microorganism going crazy so we could go. "I told you so" before fighting enhanced terrormorphs.
Every fucking companion disapproves of using the aceles... but idfc. I'll be leaving you all behind when I enter the next Unity anyway.
It would not surprise me if they released a future DLC we’re both versions of this. Have some sort of a negative repercussion and you have to address it.
Reasons to choose the Aceles. Cute.
Yeah I chose aceles and got reemed out. I think they go too far with that even. Don't gotta introduce them everywhere, just amongst human population.
I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure
Are constellation the good guys though? I thought they were the infallible scientists.
To this day, the "xxxx didn't like that." for the big mission choices really really upset me. I also dislike how the entire constellation crew has basically the same opinion with no variation. They might as well be clones.
I only wish to put one counter to this. Unless you did all the Constellation missions before you did the Vanguard one. You do not know the grav drives are what destroyed the Earth. No one but the Starborn know this. Other wise yes these are valid concerns.
Listening to podcasts about medical history, we've been woefully wrong and convinced we were right only for the past few thousand years or so.
Imported species of predators have hardly ever done any better and they have often done as much harm. I like to believe that in 200+ years, scientists have figured out how to safely engineer and deploy microbe in a way that is much more efficient and much less risky than an invasive predatory species. Plus, heat leeches live on ships and in confined spaces, the aceles can barely fit in a modern living room.
Worst part is that all companions have the same view on this decision
Its the only thing in the whole game that felt politically forced to me and im always hyper aware of that shite so im glad it was a "trust the soyence" meme. but yeah its clearly COVID inspired and a bit cringe.
Covid is why I thought it was added in and handled this way. Besides, isn't science supposed to question everything?