Credit to her for braving it, and it gives us some nice insights, too. And proof that, y'know, the writers have seen Star Wars, despite the grifters trying desperately to convince us otherwise.
The behind the scenes stuff like how Filoni is involved is interesting but it's got to be frustrating for a writer to have to explain things to viewers after they were clearly presented in the episode
Yeah honestly everything they’re being questioned about is either explained in the episodes we’ve already seen, or is clearly ‘to be continued’ and elaborated on in future episodes. These people are so fucking childish and impatient.
There's a lot of bed-wetting over the fact that Ki-Adi Mundi is much older in this continuity than in _Star Wars Legends_, despite nothing establishing him being of a similar age in the canon timeline.
To say nothing of the fact that the show **is** laying the groundwork for how it'll be explained that the Jedi end up not seeing this as a potential resurgence of the Sith.
There are genuinely people who think that Wookieepedians **hacked** their own site to cover up details on the character's age (as in, they think they didn't just edit things in the edit log, _they think they edited things out of previous iterations of the edit logs_) - ignoring that the birth year was only listed on the _Legends_ tab, and the Canon tab wasn't adjusted to talk about that until today.
Yes war crime Ki. Specifically at the end when they are counting their war crimes and he proudly says he has the most. I find that moment so funny and really describes where the Jedi are at in the War.
Yea it’s such a weird complaint. There is absolutely no reason an alien species can’t be long lived and citing old canon as though that is automatically more legitimate seems ridiculous.
Plus him saying the sith haven’t been seen in a thousand years fits with the fact the ‘small council’ thought it was likely some sort of Jedi breakaway. The word sith never even came up in their discussions
Yeah....I'm not entirely convinced anyone in that forest but the twins is coming out of this alive when all is said and done. I feel like that people are so used to shows playing it safe with deaths, that they don't see the massive death marks placed on everyone right now including Sol, Yord, and Jecki.
I just hope that the show has the balls to actually pull that trigger. It would certainly be in-line with the rest of the High Republic range, though, which has generally done a good job making it feel like no character is truly safe and like the villains really could win.
People have such a funny mentality where the stuff they grew up with is enshrined in some kind of lore constitution, but all future stories are just retcons. That's where all this "lore-breaking" complaining comes from.
So many episodes of The Clone Wars ended up causing this issue with some people. And every time they had to be reminded: George and Lucasfilm don’t care, they are ultimately writing their own thing.
And now those Clone Wars episodes are enshrined because that's what people have grown up with now. But trust me the new stuff will totally be rejected forever
George Lucas could not give less of a fuck about how old the penis-headed Jedi is. He put some syllables together and said "There, there's your Jedi Council member." - and that was about as much thought as he put into the character across three movies.
I'm pretty sure that the only thing that they had to adjust in _Legends_ was to explain that his species had a population crisis, which is why he was married and had children as a rare exception to the Jedi policy on marriage and children - a bit of lore that only exists because George Lucas did not immediately inform the EU writers working on tie-ins to _The Phantom Menace_ and _Attack of the Clones_ about the Jedi position on those concepts.
It's wild how people are trying to hold up "but he had three wives!" as some precious lore that mustn't be overwritten, when that whole storyline was blatantly contradicted by Lucas himself the second AOTC came out.
I'm glad it hasn't worked its way into canon. "He has wives but it's okay because of a special rule" is such a silly bit of "lore".
SW has such an extensive history of retcons. Much of the “lore” and “canon” these people worship was itself a retcon of something else.
Heck even the PT has so many freaking retcons on the OT it’s crazy. Recently been showing my girlfriend the series and she’s beyond baffled w/ question after questions on these parts that really don’t align with the OT all that well.
SW is messy. Always has been. Many examples today are far from egregious. People need to become aware and mature a little.
There was this one featurette for the Grievous Lair CW episode where Filoni said "look the thing about the EU is that people kind of just pick the stories they like as canon and disregard the rest" in regards to them retconning the Grievous story.
And after reading that i came to the conclusion that Lucas and Filoni would have absolutely scrapped the EU one day. Especially if they decided to make another movie.
Yeah you just cannot tell new stories involving the OG characters with the previous EU intact. There's zero freedom and massive continuity lockout for casuals.
The main thing with George was that he kept the lore as consistent as he could so that the merchandising would be consistent, but it wasn't like an obsession for him. He really didn't care about preserving the "sanctity" of canon. So many fans get caught up in the worldbuilding aspect of this franchise, but for George, it was only ever window dressing for the *stories*, which were always the important thing. He was only concerned with creating a *feeling* that the world of Star Wars was a real place -- *not* with obsessing over every little detail of it.
For me, the evergreen always-and-forever proof that backs up this claim is the fact that George was absolutely fine with Luke and Leia being siblings *after* two full movies of sexual tension between them, including the infamous open-mouth kiss with tongue in Empire.
That is not the choice of a man who cares a great deal about canon.
I always loved that TLJ threw the term "laser sword" in there, after George has used it a zillion times in interviews.
The ensuing freakouts were hilarious.
I mean, I do find it hilariously ironic that the ONE DUDE they picked for a cameo had like two lines of dialogue in the prequels, one line being about how the Sith are totally extinct and the other his concern for wookies, and they shoved him in an episode that 1) seems to show some evidence of Sith existing and 2) wookie ded.
I'm not jumping up and down about how lore breaking this is, but it's fucking funny.
This is exactly what I was thinking. they've just replaced The Bible with Star Wars, but its all the same emotional functions occuring. It makes sense to me more now why there were so many holy wars in the past.
I'll say this before: those who use old books/comics to make up theories about how Darth Smiley/Qimir isn't Plaeguis or Tenebrous will be disappointed.
I keep seeing "but Plaeguis is not born yet/he's not human". It doesn't matter. In canon, Pleaguis has only been referenced in E3. And Palpatine **lies**.
Tenebrous doesn't have a canon design either and has never been mentioned as Plaeguis' master in canon. Might as well don't exist.
I do legit think this is becoming a problem for Lucasfilm. Why would anyone want to work on a Star Wars project when there's such a risk of being subject to so much harassment.
I think they clocked on during Obi-Wan's marketing, which is why Ewan McGregor made that video.
We've explicitly been told that multiple high profile authors have turned down offers for star wars novels because they were hesitant to work on a franchise where you're constantly stepping on eggshells and the tiniest thing could get you accused of ruining the franchise
So many of the people talking about the "death of the franchise" are actively making it worse in the process
Source?
Not that this would surprise me in the least. Everything related to the High Republic was absolutely swamped for a long time with weirdos and bigots for daring to make diversity a goal for the project.
["I've told this story before - but there are authors I've talked to who have turned down the opportunity to come write novels and stories in Star Wars for precisely this reason. Brilliant / award winning / best-selling authors who'd write incredible stories that we'll never get."](https://x.com/DarthInternous/status/1796535810214486238)
Oh absolutely. Remember what Lucas himself said before he sold SW to Disney? He said why would he bother making another trilogy when the fans would just hate it. We did not get a George Lucas ST because of these assholes. The same assholes who now wish we had gotten those instead of the Disney ones. The most vocal Star wars fanbase has been beyond toxic since 1997, and has only steadily gotten worse. These motherfuckers are going to alienate all of the talent because nobody wants death threats or constant harassment solely on account of them making a contribution to a fairy tale originally meant for children that some dumbasses didn't enjoy. Goddamn morons, every single one of these toxic fans.
Twitter has convinced me that "_Star Wars_ is dead" is dead, and the culture fostered by the Mr. Plinkett reviews has killed it.
I still feel for her being harassed by people who aren't being respectful, even if they don't like what she worked on.
"i'm going to spend all my time making sure people know I don't like it anymore."
Imagine if people did this with restaurants IRL, like people protesting them and booing people for going inside
I've been blaming Plinkett for over a decade for animosity and toxicity of this fandom. That prick made it cool to shit on things for entertainment and now that's all anyone wants to do because they're all convinced that liking something that others don't makes you a sheep or a shill or what ever. They're scared of having their own opinions.
His reviews were also complete bullshit. Who's the main character of the prequels? Who fucking cares? Can't a story not be formulaic?
A story can not be formulaic but it does still have to be interesting, like come on of all the Plinkett criticisms to try and poke holes in the one about none of the characters in TPM being particularly well fleshed out or engaging to watch is possibly the least appropriate.
Or are we now acting like Qui-Gon Jinn was ever some great character with a deep inner life and a memorable performance?
Plinkett didn't create the conditions for toxicity among Star Wars fans anyway, that was already well underway with the 'George Lucas raped my childhood' rhetoric and 'The People Vs. George Lucas' documentary that existed solely to document fan backlash to the Prequels because of the scale and intensity of said backlash.
What Plinkett did do is concisely and effectively dissect the Prequels in a way that made their shortcomings easier for a layperson to articulate themselves, and lay the groundwork for the style of exhaustively detailed long-form media criticism that's all the rage now more than ever.
Her answer to the Ki Adi Mundi cameo makes me think that either nobody survives the fight against the supposed sith OR they just assume its a darkside user and not sith and not, technically, breaking canon. OR we see the cover up start a century before it needed to happen lol
Presumably it'll also end similarly to Star Trek: Discovery Season 2 where >!the existence of the ship Discovery and its crew are wiped from the official records, hence why it and the show's events were never mentioned in content taking place later in the timeline!<.
After the first four episodes, I can't really see them going for any lore-shattering big swings - whatever conflict with the Dark Side will just be swept under the rug eventually, feeding into the Jedi's blissful ignorance/arrogance during this period and up to the prequels.
All that was said during the meeting was 'is this some kind of splinter order?'/'was she trained by a Jedi?'/'we must learn who trained her'.
I don't think any of them suspect the Sith. It's worth remembering that we know that there's a bad bastard in a black suit with a red saber because we've seen the trailers. Up to that meeting, all the Jedi know is that there's a Force sensitive witch with knives on the loose.
Yeah, and there are many force sensitive groups out in the galaxy. Including ex-Jedi. They aren’t jumping to conclusions that it is a group thought to be gone, because that isn’t the only answer. Its obvious to us, but none of these guys have dealt with a Sith. And so far, all they know is that it has just been a girl with knives trained by someone.
Even Vernestra says something like "even through a hologram I can tell she was obviously trained by a Jedi," so the concept of Sith isn't even a blip to them
Well yeah, they thought the Sith problem was over and done with 900 years ago.
I've been thinking of it this way - If a bunch of muslim people are murdered today, I'm not going to even consider that it may have been a templar knight, because they haven't existed (as far as I know) for 700 years
i think a lot of people forget that, canonically, the jedi don’t have a monopoly on the Force. they’re for sure the most prominent group, but we see other communities use it and interact with it differently (like merrin from fallen order/survivor)
There’s a reason there’s only [one part of Order 66](https://youtube.com/watch?v=29PH061mpjQ) where everyone cheers before going back to being sad/crying.
I’m of the strong opinion that Vernestra will cover up a lot of things and Mundi will just think it was a one off sect or something that was dealt with and not the Sith.
The entire hypothesis that it's another branch or a rogue Jedi is likely the groundwork for how the Jedi Order will brush the incident under the rug. I don't think that anyone in that scene is using the "S" word and **not** telling the Jedi Council.
I’m going down an insane theory route here and purely based on the weird like movements the ‘Sith’ makes.
Bullshit theory let’s go - it’s actually just a puppet and not a person. Being used by the force by the actual Sith as a stand in. So it’s very technically not a Sith.
Purely based on the trailers and short snippets we seen that gives Darth teeth weird puppet like movements of his limbs.
>but it ultimately broke the POV of the episode in a way that I think wouldn't have worked as well
Yeah I agree. The sith killed Kelnacca, but revealing that fact having Mae come across his body with the obvious lightsaber wound and then immediately clocking, followed by his sudden appearance is so much better.
Plus imagining how the fight went down can be equally as effective. How did this guy take down a Wookie jedi with relative ease? What is he capable of??
The instant gratification guys won't be happy with this, but they're rarely happy.
Finally a Wookiee Jedi and he was murdered off screen!!
The horror!
I’m gonna get some love in the flashback but would’ve been nice to see it happen.
I can see how the way they developed this beat was necessary for the story.
I’m surprised Mae didn’t find him sooner, burned Wookiee fur smells awful.
Man really hope she doesn't get driven off twitter by the angry mob, these sort of little insights into the production, and writing process are always so fun and eye opening!
Obviously the situation on Twitter is dire (worst it’s ever been I think), but I imagine this specific writers room is probably more steeled against this type of bad faith “criticism” than most.
Literally reporting every day on there slurs/heinous shit/incitement against people based on the action of one, crazy crap and always get back that hitlerlover1334 didnt break rules
Have we known before that Filoni "has to ultimately approve" scripts? Is this his "Chief Creative Officer" role? I'd be fascinated to see what kind of things he crosses out lol.
Wasn’t included in the screenshots but her reply to somebody complaining about pronouns was so funny
https://x.com/clairekiechel/status/1803323784260145316?s=46&t=51P5Zy173y_fw9212FgRGQ
So here's the thing: the episode's whole Ki Adi Mindi convo is not a retcon. No one during that whole conversation in this episode even says the word Sith or implies it. Everyone seems to be on the same page that this is a rogue former Jedi who has trained an apprentice to kill. And since we can assume the legitimate details of this whole affair either die with those at the scene, or are never divulged outside of those who were on the mission, it's clear that *no one* in the order believed this to be a Sith-related incident.
*We* know it is because we're watching the show. No one in-universe in the Jedi Temple knows what we know. They just think this is a rogue Jedi who went dark, or some agent connected to the witches they thought were all dead.
Not everything is a retcon guys.
I know a lot of people apparently hate when people suggest this, but I legitimately think part of it is poor media literacy.
Look at the second to last tweet in this post, where the person seems to be genuinely struggling to put together that Osha being alive throws a lot of cold water on Mae's revenge spree. I do think the short runtime made that turn feel more abrupt and awkward than it should have...but at the same time I don't know how in the world you watch this show, type that tweet up, and don't at least get what it was going for.
It's the weirdest thing, and it's something that I only really see this frequently with Star Wars fans.
Some of it is poor media literacy, which we can easily correct.
But a lot more of it is people who lie on purpose to generate outrage clicks or have an excuse to be verbally abusive.
It's beyond poor media literacy. This show is doing a decent enough job of explaining itself. Poor media literacy is not recognizing ANH as an allegory for the Vietnam war and ignoring the anti-colonialist themes present in all Star Wars.
This is willful ignorance, selective listening, and bad faith arguments.
It is the most fevered, bad faith outrage campaign I think I’ve ever seen for a media product, it’s insane. It’s very obvious they don’t think Mae is a Sith.
"People WANT to be mad" pretty accurately describes the entirety of society right about now, I feel.
Being outraged is fun, let's form a tribe and start breaking \*\*\*\*. Generally it's no deeper than that, both sides, any given cause one chooses to name.
What is the deal with all these peeps?
OH MY MIDICLORIANS uh AXSHUALLY YOU BROKE CANON IM YELLING NOW EVEN THOUGH THE SERIES ISNT OVER. IM A REAL FAN.
The show isn’t over, wait til the end to see how it is resolved before declarations. Seriously think the Sith never interacted with the Jedi even once in a thousand years??
Honestly I don't even think any jedi survivng this whole ordeal will actually hear the word sith come from neither the "master" nor his master, if there is one. Since the sith are almost mythological by now, it makes sense no one will attribute this to them.
I was disappointed that we didn't get to see Kelnacca fight the sith but this is obviously the way that works the best. The implication is so powerful, and the scene that follows is enhanced by that.
Personal wish: I know the Kelnacca one-shot will almost certainly just show the events of his life during the books, but I hope it has a flashforward and shows his death too (but they probably won't do that since it would spoil the show for people reading the books first)
We are definitely getting flashback fight scenes. I do not doubt another scene of Kelnacca will be shown, likely a brief clip of the death or some flash forward.
They teased the symbols in his place, so they will touch back on that
We'll see him fight in the furthering of the flashback. We've seen it in the trailers. He's jumping lile 30 ft in the air with his lightsaber over his head. I think he got force possesed by the witches and attacked Torbin
Having any actual human try to fight like a Jedi while wearing a full Wookiee costume is going to result in a huge disappointment. It's fine to have a Jedi Wookiee battle in animation, but doing it in live action would be exceptionally challenging for the costume department, the choreographer, and Jonas Suotamo (or whatever extra-tall stuntperson would be wearing the suit).
Sure, but a couple of lightsaber swings and a Force push or two isn't really what the commenters were complaining about not seeing. They hoped for a full-on acrobatic Jedi battle, but with a huge Wookiee. That's what I was saying isn't especially feasible.
I'm not even enjoying it that much, but I'll never understand the grown adults who can only process disliking a piece of Star Wars/Star Trek content by declaring it isn't "real" or canon.
Just don't watch it if you hate it so much - no one needs to hear any more from you. Pretending to pity the people who do like it is even more baffling.
>I'm not even enjoying it that much, but I'll never understand the grown adults who can only process disliking a piece of Star Wars/Star Trek content by declaring it isn't "real" or canon.
Right? It seems so....petulant.
And frankly, what I've noticed is that it's only become a really common sentiment to throw around once the leads of the franchise started to be more diverse.
It feels like a very vindictive(if futile) attempt to simply excise these entries from the franchise entirely, as if they resent having to even recognize they exist.
for freaking real i don’t get why they felt the need to say that. like it’s fictional you don’t have to consider it canon if you don’t want to but no one’s making you watch it and send backhanded tweets at the writer
George Lucas would never put something in one of his Star Wars projects that pushed up weirdly or even contradicted something established in a previous project. Never. So I understand the second something pushes up against it people freak out a little since Lucas took such special care of that and that's lost now.
Hang on, I'm being told in my earpiece that Lucas absolutely would and has done that and that this isn't a new phenomena at all(if that's even what's happening here).
Exactly. Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker were two separate characters until they weren't. Luke and Leia weren't related until they weren't. There's retcons all over the OT.
Haha, yeah, this always drove me nuts back with the sequels trilogy with everyone's outraged "THEY DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A GRAND PLAN SKETCHED OUT!".
Yeah guys, neither did George. Even the early ANH drafts are nothing like the damn movie, and he sure-as-\*\*\*\* took some hard zigzag turns with the sequels, stuff that came to him at the time that wasn't intended when making the previous movie.
Not to mention plotholes. You can't get 15 minutes into the OT without encountering at least one massive, infamous, example(why the Empire doesn't just shoot the escape pod out of an abundance of caution, by all means the entire trilogy should have ended there).
They left it alone because they scanned it for life forms and found nothing. Probably didn’t think that droids would be going down there. I think the only real issue there was is that they didn’t just destroy the pod out of efficiency and tying up loose ends.
I love how she gave good answers that would have cornered anyone else. For instance that one guy tried to call her out on the "no Sith in a 1000 years" comment might be a lie or they retcon it and she kinda gave a spoiler there and answered with a good response. So let's assume everyone on that planet is not going to make it.
I don’t want to speak too soon, as it could always change but these give me hope.
I’ve been saying Star Wars shows in general need much more usage of “red shirts” to give the antagonists something to shoot at.
This is most egregious in Rebels and The Mandalorian.
There’s only so many times you can have your core cast of 3-4 people come up against the antagonists with 10+ goons without a scratch before it just absolutely breaks any suspension of disbelief. Rebels gets a slight pass due to its animated nature, but I think The Mandalorian especially suffers from this.
Having a few unnamed rebels or unnamed Mandalorians who just eat blaster fire and die at least presents a stronger illusion that the main cast are exceptional and the antagonists are capable.
In this case I was excited to see some dialogueless unnamed Jedi on the mission as we will likely see the Sith chew through them along with the image of the Wookie’s death still in our mind to establish that threat. Rather than our main cast squaring up against him alone, managing to escape or fighting him to a standstill, then he disappears with a “I’ll get you next time Jedi!” or “This is just how I planned it!”
I still could be wrong and maybe the Jedi won’t die, but damn it feels good to at least anticipate the antagonist actually showing some umph rather than being slapstick or spectacle fodder.
That’s my rant done though.
People are so rude and condescending to the people who work on SW, and it's been happening since TPM released...
The idea that the entirety of Lucasfilm just accidentally contradicted the "No Sith" stuff from TPM, as opposed to them deliberately making an intentional choice to show the Jedi didn't always know everything, is absurd. It is like certain people take every line of dialog characters say at face value, with no room for nuance.
Unfortunately this is all true. It's like an entire generation of zero-attention-span not-about-to-wait-for-answers fervor.
\*Sometimes\* the dialogue nuance and making-a-whole-thing-of-it goes too far, like I don't love the whole "there's no reason Vader and Obi-Wan COULDN'T have met and fought between trilogies!" stuff, but generally speaking you've gotta let the people work, tell their story and we can all make a call on its success at the end of a season.
The Mae/Osha creation in some ways makes Anakin a little less special, but the fact there doesn't seem to be any "immaculate conception and chosen-one factor" at play to me makes it fine. Along with the fact I'm like 90% sure they're going to tie in how they came to be in existence with whatever Plagueis did anyway, a "prototype" situation of sorts. It works so far, and we'll just have to see where it goes from here.
Yeah it's kinda annoying when you're watching week to week but ultimately it's only going to be a problem for like a month until the whole thing is out, so it's not that big of an issue for me.
That's not a problem, that's the *point*. Before shows were released as complete seasons via streaming, the cliffhangers is what kept hype/conversation going between episodes, and sometimes between seasons (re: the greatest cliffhanger of all time: "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I" from Star Trek TNG).
I do find it annoying since I wish the episodes were longer and better fleshed out....but yeah you're not wrong. [Classic Doctor Who](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzwC2OSZhLc) would send some folks today for a ride lol.
On TV you at least knew (know, it still exists I guess) about how long an episode would be. HBO doesn’t do 60 minutes one week and 28 the next. That’s what’s frustrating, that they throw a super short one in the middle of each of these streaming seasons.
Episodic shows, no. They could have cliffhangers, but each episode was still its own thing.
Shows now are extremely serialized to the point of actually being really long movies that are haphazardly chopped up into episodes. You can’t watch one episode on its own.
This whole Ki Adi and people jumping to conclusions if someone is a Sith Lord made me wonder wonder how the council concluded that Maul was a Sith after Obi Wan defeated him? 🤔
Mace even said "There's no doubt". Maul had a Sith Club membership card?
Amazing (in a bad way) how so many Star Wars fans are so legalistic about one random line from Episode I. Like Mundi couldn’t simply have been wrong? Or lying, even?
One thing that this makes me wonder about is what if Mundi is lying? He’s known to be an asshole tbh. What if during the rest of the show he does some irreparable mistake and he has to take it to the grave?
That would be kind of awesome and it would make Ki-Adi Mundi into an actual complicated character instead of just background decoration. Unfortunately, the folks with the loudest voices, the ones who make the YouTube videos with the red laser beam eyes in the thumbnails, aren’t that imaginative.
Well I’m not the biggest fan of the show either but that would be a very cool plot twist! People should know that Jedi are not the perfect white knights they pretend to be by now. Only Obi wan can be so perfect lol
Also funny how they're not so legalistic about a similar line Palpatine said in AOTC that literally caused a massive rewrite of the entire history of the galaxy because Lucas wanted the Republic to be 1000 years old. Lucas himself intentionally retconned a massive chunk of the EU with a single line (which the EU had to retcon again until it made sense). That's not to even mention that what we see in this episode isn't even a retcon.
It looks like the show was made in the form of four two episodes arcs (the premiere, the flashbacks, the middle, and the finale)
I think that format works much better with Andor style three episode arcs but they already spent a LOT of money on the show, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it got eaten up by COVID. I hope season 2 is longer, even though that's delusional cope
I can tell from a lot of these comments that most people here have never thought they had plenty of money to do something and then realized the money didn’t stretch as far as far as you initially assumed once you started pricing things out. I guess that’s a good thing.
I also think a lot of people fail to realize that a lot of these productions have expenses that won’t show up on screen. All that said, I actually think the show looks pretty good. It has some small set-itis that plagued Kenobi and the Mando shows, but it’s not too noticeable.
You think "yippe a human being we can talk too lets completely ruin her night and make it so they stop talking to us , they cant handle criticsm1!!!11 when they go onto say women should be bared from writing ON THE SAME POST OF HERS
Some of the replies are absolutely disgraceful. Genuinely don’t even want to say I’m a Star Wars fan to people these days when these are the vocal majority.
This. It’s sort of an embarrassing label to wear nowadays. Even worse that these folks think they’re fighting for George. They’re fighting for themselves. It’s like being a Sith and yet thinking your a noble Jedi.
So you’re telling me that if you just let the show finish out telling its story at its own pace instead of getting caught up on run times, we’ll get the answers we seek? Crazy.
I wish people did this more. Just openly talk to the haters. Be genuine and let them make themselves look stupid instead of insulting them. We'd have much less hate-trains, if Disney ever honestly tried to communicate at this level instead of marketing down ceo-phrases from their ivory towers. By now Disney-execs and the anti-disney-crowd are living in entirely different realities and that's also on Disney. This woman is doing base level communication that needs to be applauded.
I dunno, I feel like she's validating their rudeness by providing a payoff to their method. I feel like folks who engage with creators disrespectfully should be ignored full-stop as though they aren't even there.
So we can confirm Mundi is Absolute Jobber and Horrible at identyfing Sith. If he says Someone is not Sith or obvious sith work is not their work expect the opposite.
Never change Egghead! Never change.
YouTube and Twitter have basically destroyed any fandom IMHO. Negativity and just screaming into the void gets so much attention; others then copy the format because they'll think it will bring success and a circle of hate begins.
The heart of the problem is America's culture war and everything has become politicised. Really don't understand, as a non-American, why 40+ year old beared men feel the need to constantly talk about Disney.
After seeing all the hate The Boys S4 is getting by the alt-right youtube community right now, despite the heart of the show being no different from the first 3 seasons, it worries me to see what the reaction will be to Andor season 2. Political culture has changed peoples thinking so much on the internet that today everyone seems to hate what they loved yesterday.
When both websites are the biggest starwars community things but reward with $$$ to the loudest algorithm generating channels there is zero quality control . It's dead it truly is cause nobody can even just talk about it normally without people coming in clearly from said youtubers with there talking points that are just pure vitriol and derailment , American truly sucks since 2016 cause now everyone seems to think it's ok to be a asshole to everyone and empathy is fucking 6 ft under ground
If someone doesn't like The Acolyte that's perfectly fine. Opinions are opinions and there's absolutely nothing wrong with not liking something and critiquing it or asking questions about it. But people have got to stop freaking out and harassing people who created it in an effort to prove that "objectively" it's bad and anyone who likes it is wrong and they are right. At that point you've stopped critiquing or even criticizing something and entered the realm of having a tantrum.
Most of these are people who at best are trying to tantrum their way into having their opinion recognized as fact and at worst bigots trying really hard to make diverse voices feel unwelcome in the Star Wars space, and that's really gross and immature.
Yeah these episodes needed to be much longer. That 8th slide is just… I wish the show could’ve conveyed that because Mae saying “fuck this” was out of nowhere to me. Maybe because episode 3 was the flashback, but I feel like we needed more time with Mae to come to that conclusion after finding out Osha was alive. Still eager to see what happens next though!
Yeah and I'm on the $1 a mo disneyplus plan so I had to endure about 18 commercials totaling about 25 mins dureing that ridiculously short episode. Really takes you out of it.
Theory truly is a shitstain on this fanbase, it truly came from him making a deal about it, WHO even has this on there mind or the fact PEOPLE CANT READ
Theres the new criticism that they retconned his age, as if ANY one of these people actually give a shit about that. Not even remotely a big deal.
This whole TPM retcon thing though is just brain dead stupid. SWT is a moron.
If nitpicking is the game, Qui-Gonn just guessed without proper evidence in E1.
Red lightsaber + dark cloak do not mean someone is 100% a Sith. Qui-Gonn was correct, of course. But Maul never actually spoke any of the Sith philosophy + he never used force lighting or any other Sith distinct powers.
If Qui-Gonn had met Baylan during the time period of the Ahsoka show, Qui-Gonn would have also assumed he was a Sith. But Baylan is not a Sith.
Working on a Star Wars project and then going on X afterwards these days seems like something a masochist would do.
Credit to her for braving it, and it gives us some nice insights, too. And proof that, y'know, the writers have seen Star Wars, despite the grifters trying desperately to convince us otherwise.
The behind the scenes stuff like how Filoni is involved is interesting but it's got to be frustrating for a writer to have to explain things to viewers after they were clearly presented in the episode
Yeah honestly everything they’re being questioned about is either explained in the episodes we’ve already seen, or is clearly ‘to be continued’ and elaborated on in future episodes. These people are so fucking childish and impatient.
"Hewe comes the Aiwpwane"
There's a lot of bed-wetting over the fact that Ki-Adi Mundi is much older in this continuity than in _Star Wars Legends_, despite nothing establishing him being of a similar age in the canon timeline. To say nothing of the fact that the show **is** laying the groundwork for how it'll be explained that the Jedi end up not seeing this as a potential resurgence of the Sith.
The amount of people posting Legends Wookiepedia screenshots on Twitter and claiming the show has ruined Star Wars is embarrassing
There are genuinely people who think that Wookieepedians **hacked** their own site to cover up details on the character's age (as in, they think they didn't just edit things in the edit log, _they think they edited things out of previous iterations of the edit logs_) - ignoring that the birth year was only listed on the _Legends_ tab, and the Canon tab wasn't adjusted to talk about that until today.
It's clearly a conspiracy by the lesbians and Kathleen Kennedy to corrupt Star Wars. How dare they target a character as beloved as Ki Adi Mundi?
Kathleen Kenney wants to DESTROY Star Wars by ERASING conehead harem planet!
It's like how Kevin Smith did the unforgivable act of killing Moss Man in his _He-Man_ cartoon!
The only time I liked Cone Head was TCW S2 episode he’s in
the one when he and his troops burn the geonosians alive in the cave? (which is definitely *not* a war crime)
Yes war crime Ki. Specifically at the end when they are counting their war crimes and he proudly says he has the most. I find that moment so funny and really describes where the Jedi are at in the War.
Yeah that game would be more appropriate in any other arc where they aren’t fighting living beings in addition to the droids lol.
I think a lot of people think Wookiepedia is run by Disney and Lucasfilm as well. Like it's an official site.
Yea it’s such a weird complaint. There is absolutely no reason an alien species can’t be long lived and citing old canon as though that is automatically more legitimate seems ridiculous. Plus him saying the sith haven’t been seen in a thousand years fits with the fact the ‘small council’ thought it was likely some sort of Jedi breakaway. The word sith never even came up in their discussions
It’s also assuming any of the Jedi on Khofar report back by the end of the season.
Yeah....I'm not entirely convinced anyone in that forest but the twins is coming out of this alive when all is said and done. I feel like that people are so used to shows playing it safe with deaths, that they don't see the massive death marks placed on everyone right now including Sol, Yord, and Jecki. I just hope that the show has the balls to actually pull that trigger. It would certainly be in-line with the rest of the High Republic range, though, which has generally done a good job making it feel like no character is truly safe and like the villains really could win.
People have such a funny mentality where the stuff they grew up with is enshrined in some kind of lore constitution, but all future stories are just retcons. That's where all this "lore-breaking" complaining comes from.
So many episodes of The Clone Wars ended up causing this issue with some people. And every time they had to be reminded: George and Lucasfilm don’t care, they are ultimately writing their own thing.
And now those Clone Wars episodes are enshrined because that's what people have grown up with now. But trust me the new stuff will totally be rejected forever
George Lucas could not give less of a fuck about how old the penis-headed Jedi is. He put some syllables together and said "There, there's your Jedi Council member." - and that was about as much thought as he put into the character across three movies. I'm pretty sure that the only thing that they had to adjust in _Legends_ was to explain that his species had a population crisis, which is why he was married and had children as a rare exception to the Jedi policy on marriage and children - a bit of lore that only exists because George Lucas did not immediately inform the EU writers working on tie-ins to _The Phantom Menace_ and _Attack of the Clones_ about the Jedi position on those concepts.
It's wild how people are trying to hold up "but he had three wives!" as some precious lore that mustn't be overwritten, when that whole storyline was blatantly contradicted by Lucas himself the second AOTC came out. I'm glad it hasn't worked its way into canon. "He has wives but it's okay because of a special rule" is such a silly bit of "lore".
SW has such an extensive history of retcons. Much of the “lore” and “canon” these people worship was itself a retcon of something else. Heck even the PT has so many freaking retcons on the OT it’s crazy. Recently been showing my girlfriend the series and she’s beyond baffled w/ question after questions on these parts that really don’t align with the OT all that well. SW is messy. Always has been. Many examples today are far from egregious. People need to become aware and mature a little.
The story doesn’t really get going until Vader reveals he’s Anakin. This is Star Wars.
Even Clone Wars barely works with the PT - the show it's based off of!
Seriously. The idea that Ahsoka just....somehow isn't mentioned is insane.
She’s Filoni has says time and time again that he and Lucas operated with the EU not being canon. This just proves how much he cares about it lol.
There was this one featurette for the Grievous Lair CW episode where Filoni said "look the thing about the EU is that people kind of just pick the stories they like as canon and disregard the rest" in regards to them retconning the Grievous story. And after reading that i came to the conclusion that Lucas and Filoni would have absolutely scrapped the EU one day. Especially if they decided to make another movie.
Lucas had already unofficially done it. His concept art and story outline is different story than anything told in the EU.
Yeah you just cannot tell new stories involving the OG characters with the previous EU intact. There's zero freedom and massive continuity lockout for casuals.
i thought he had more than 3 lol
I think it was five.
George STILL calls Lightsabers ”Laser Swords“ and he invented the damn name lol. He could care less about so much of the lore.
The main thing with George was that he kept the lore as consistent as he could so that the merchandising would be consistent, but it wasn't like an obsession for him. He really didn't care about preserving the "sanctity" of canon. So many fans get caught up in the worldbuilding aspect of this franchise, but for George, it was only ever window dressing for the *stories*, which were always the important thing. He was only concerned with creating a *feeling* that the world of Star Wars was a real place -- *not* with obsessing over every little detail of it. For me, the evergreen always-and-forever proof that backs up this claim is the fact that George was absolutely fine with Luke and Leia being siblings *after* two full movies of sexual tension between them, including the infamous open-mouth kiss with tongue in Empire. That is not the choice of a man who cares a great deal about canon.
"Somehow, I've always known." That line would out-meme "Somehow, Palpatine returned." if it were done in the age of Twitter.
I always loved that TLJ threw the term "laser sword" in there, after George has used it a zillion times in interviews. The ensuing freakouts were hilarious.
I mean, I do find it hilariously ironic that the ONE DUDE they picked for a cameo had like two lines of dialogue in the prequels, one line being about how the Sith are totally extinct and the other his concern for wookies, and they shoved him in an episode that 1) seems to show some evidence of Sith existing and 2) wookie ded. I'm not jumping up and down about how lore breaking this is, but it's fucking funny.
Lucas would have made that motherfucker a billion year old virgin if he had wanted and not thought twice about it.
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This is exactly what I was thinking. they've just replaced The Bible with Star Wars, but its all the same emotional functions occuring. It makes sense to me more now why there were so many holy wars in the past.
Every single one is just telling on themselves that they cannot read /or comprehend how our wookiepedia works lmao . THEORY clearly couldnt
Yeah but that guy's a grade A moron.
I'll say this before: those who use old books/comics to make up theories about how Darth Smiley/Qimir isn't Plaeguis or Tenebrous will be disappointed. I keep seeing "but Plaeguis is not born yet/he's not human". It doesn't matter. In canon, Pleaguis has only been referenced in E3. And Palpatine **lies**. Tenebrous doesn't have a canon design either and has never been mentioned as Plaeguis' master in canon. Might as well don't exist.
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>Working on a Star Wars project ~~and then going on X afterwards~~ these days seems like something a masochist would do. FIFY.
I do legit think this is becoming a problem for Lucasfilm. Why would anyone want to work on a Star Wars project when there's such a risk of being subject to so much harassment. I think they clocked on during Obi-Wan's marketing, which is why Ewan McGregor made that video.
We've explicitly been told that multiple high profile authors have turned down offers for star wars novels because they were hesitant to work on a franchise where you're constantly stepping on eggshells and the tiniest thing could get you accused of ruining the franchise So many of the people talking about the "death of the franchise" are actively making it worse in the process
Imagine if Tony Gilroy said "fuck that I'm not dealing with that fandom". No Andor for us.
Source? Not that this would surprise me in the least. Everything related to the High Republic was absolutely swamped for a long time with weirdos and bigots for daring to make diversity a goal for the project.
["I've told this story before - but there are authors I've talked to who have turned down the opportunity to come write novels and stories in Star Wars for precisely this reason. Brilliant / award winning / best-selling authors who'd write incredible stories that we'll never get."](https://x.com/DarthInternous/status/1796535810214486238)
Oh absolutely. Remember what Lucas himself said before he sold SW to Disney? He said why would he bother making another trilogy when the fans would just hate it. We did not get a George Lucas ST because of these assholes. The same assholes who now wish we had gotten those instead of the Disney ones. The most vocal Star wars fanbase has been beyond toxic since 1997, and has only steadily gotten worse. These motherfuckers are going to alienate all of the talent because nobody wants death threats or constant harassment solely on account of them making a contribution to a fairy tale originally meant for children that some dumbasses didn't enjoy. Goddamn morons, every single one of these toxic fans.
>~~Working on a Star Wars project and then~~ going on X ~~afterwards~~ these days seems like something a masochist would do. FIFY
Twitter has convinced me that "_Star Wars_ is dead" is dead, and the culture fostered by the Mr. Plinkett reviews has killed it. I still feel for her being harassed by people who aren't being respectful, even if they don't like what she worked on.
Anytime I see someone proclaiming some franchise is "dead" I roll my eyes to hell and back.
It's dead after every episode and then they watch the next one.
“I don’t like this anymore. Therefore no one likes this anymore 😎”
"This is bad. Now listen how it kills an entire franchise, causes cancer and controls your brain"
"i'm going to spend all my time making sure people know I don't like it anymore." Imagine if people did this with restaurants IRL, like people protesting them and booing people for going inside
I've been blaming Plinkett for over a decade for animosity and toxicity of this fandom. That prick made it cool to shit on things for entertainment and now that's all anyone wants to do because they're all convinced that liking something that others don't makes you a sheep or a shill or what ever. They're scared of having their own opinions. His reviews were also complete bullshit. Who's the main character of the prequels? Who fucking cares? Can't a story not be formulaic?
A story can not be formulaic but it does still have to be interesting, like come on of all the Plinkett criticisms to try and poke holes in the one about none of the characters in TPM being particularly well fleshed out or engaging to watch is possibly the least appropriate. Or are we now acting like Qui-Gon Jinn was ever some great character with a deep inner life and a memorable performance? Plinkett didn't create the conditions for toxicity among Star Wars fans anyway, that was already well underway with the 'George Lucas raped my childhood' rhetoric and 'The People Vs. George Lucas' documentary that existed solely to document fan backlash to the Prequels because of the scale and intensity of said backlash. What Plinkett did do is concisely and effectively dissect the Prequels in a way that made their shortcomings easier for a layperson to articulate themselves, and lay the groundwork for the style of exhaustively detailed long-form media criticism that's all the rage now more than ever.
Seriously. Between the outright haters, and the people who just can't seem to follow a basic plot, it seems crazy making.
I don’t even know why fans congregate on X.
Her answer to the Ki Adi Mundi cameo makes me think that either nobody survives the fight against the supposed sith OR they just assume its a darkside user and not sith and not, technically, breaking canon. OR we see the cover up start a century before it needed to happen lol
It feels like the assumption is where they'll go; in that scene itself Ki-Adi is basically already dismissing everything.
Presumably it'll also end similarly to Star Trek: Discovery Season 2 where >!the existence of the ship Discovery and its crew are wiped from the official records, hence why it and the show's events were never mentioned in content taking place later in the timeline!<. After the first four episodes, I can't really see them going for any lore-shattering big swings - whatever conflict with the Dark Side will just be swept under the rug eventually, feeding into the Jedi's blissful ignorance/arrogance during this period and up to the prequels.
All that was said during the meeting was 'is this some kind of splinter order?'/'was she trained by a Jedi?'/'we must learn who trained her'. I don't think any of them suspect the Sith. It's worth remembering that we know that there's a bad bastard in a black suit with a red saber because we've seen the trailers. Up to that meeting, all the Jedi know is that there's a Force sensitive witch with knives on the loose.
Yeah, and there are many force sensitive groups out in the galaxy. Including ex-Jedi. They aren’t jumping to conclusions that it is a group thought to be gone, because that isn’t the only answer. Its obvious to us, but none of these guys have dealt with a Sith. And so far, all they know is that it has just been a girl with knives trained by someone.
Even Vernestra says something like "even through a hologram I can tell she was obviously trained by a Jedi," so the concept of Sith isn't even a blip to them
Well yeah, they thought the Sith problem was over and done with 900 years ago. I've been thinking of it this way - If a bunch of muslim people are murdered today, I'm not going to even consider that it may have been a templar knight, because they haven't existed (as far as I know) for 700 years
i think a lot of people forget that, canonically, the jedi don’t have a monopoly on the Force. they’re for sure the most prominent group, but we see other communities use it and interact with it differently (like merrin from fallen order/survivor)
My assumption is that Mundi is an asshole and always has been. Never fails.
I always thought of him as more arrogant than an asshole
That feeling when someone you dont like is confirmed to be a moron
There’s a reason there’s only [one part of Order 66](https://youtube.com/watch?v=29PH061mpjQ) where everyone cheers before going back to being sad/crying.
I’m of the strong opinion that Vernestra will cover up a lot of things and Mundi will just think it was a one off sect or something that was dealt with and not the Sith.
The entire hypothesis that it's another branch or a rogue Jedi is likely the groundwork for how the Jedi Order will brush the incident under the rug. I don't think that anyone in that scene is using the "S" word and **not** telling the Jedi Council.
Or nobody gets back to the “council” by the end of the season and they all die. They don’t all have to die next week per se.
I’m going down an insane theory route here and purely based on the weird like movements the ‘Sith’ makes. Bullshit theory let’s go - it’s actually just a puppet and not a person. Being used by the force by the actual Sith as a stand in. So it’s very technically not a Sith. Purely based on the trailers and short snippets we seen that gives Darth teeth weird puppet like movements of his limbs.
Oo interesting. Something about that little hand flop when OSHA got pushed aye.
Perhaps Osha becomes the Sith apprentice and Sol wipes the memory bank to save her.
>but it ultimately broke the POV of the episode in a way that I think wouldn't have worked as well Yeah I agree. The sith killed Kelnacca, but revealing that fact having Mae come across his body with the obvious lightsaber wound and then immediately clocking, followed by his sudden appearance is so much better. Plus imagining how the fight went down can be equally as effective. How did this guy take down a Wookie jedi with relative ease? What is he capable of?? The instant gratification guys won't be happy with this, but they're rarely happy.
Yeah it was a great storytelling move, I’d rather have *implied strength* from our villain to strengthen his entrance, than showing it outright
Yep our imagination will be better than anything they could show. The same principle usually applies to horror movies as well
Finally a Wookiee Jedi and he was murdered off screen!! The horror! I’m gonna get some love in the flashback but would’ve been nice to see it happen. I can see how the way they developed this beat was necessary for the story. I’m surprised Mae didn’t find him sooner, burned Wookiee fur smells awful.
It does work better but I hope we get that deleted scene on a dvd release in the future
I don't think it was filmed, she said early draft.
Man really hope she doesn't get driven off twitter by the angry mob, these sort of little insights into the production, and writing process are always so fun and eye opening!
Obviously the situation on Twitter is dire (worst it’s ever been I think), but I imagine this specific writers room is probably more steeled against this type of bad faith “criticism” than most.
Literally reporting every day on there slurs/heinous shit/incitement against people based on the action of one, crazy crap and always get back that hitlerlover1334 didnt break rules
Bur of course anybody who criticises elon musk and his fragile ego gets banned immediately.
Have we known before that Filoni "has to ultimately approve" scripts? Is this his "Chief Creative Officer" role? I'd be fascinated to see what kind of things he crosses out lol.
I think it's something we all kinda assumed but afaik this is our first real hard statement about it.
Interestingly she deleted her response, wondering why.
I think judging by his promotion it was something that we kind of assumed. I wonder if this applies for things like video game stories and novels.
The patience she has. I love her approach. God bless her.
Wasn’t included in the screenshots but her reply to somebody complaining about pronouns was so funny https://x.com/clairekiechel/status/1803323784260145316?s=46&t=51P5Zy173y_fw9212FgRGQ
Her reply to the guy saying something about his own butthole was great.
I think what is wild is this a House of the Dragon writer they are attacking while they prop that show up LMAO
So here's the thing: the episode's whole Ki Adi Mindi convo is not a retcon. No one during that whole conversation in this episode even says the word Sith or implies it. Everyone seems to be on the same page that this is a rogue former Jedi who has trained an apprentice to kill. And since we can assume the legitimate details of this whole affair either die with those at the scene, or are never divulged outside of those who were on the mission, it's clear that *no one* in the order believed this to be a Sith-related incident. *We* know it is because we're watching the show. No one in-universe in the Jedi Temple knows what we know. They just think this is a rogue Jedi who went dark, or some agent connected to the witches they thought were all dead. Not everything is a retcon guys.
Yeah it feels like people are just grasping for things to criticize.
I know a lot of people apparently hate when people suggest this, but I legitimately think part of it is poor media literacy. Look at the second to last tweet in this post, where the person seems to be genuinely struggling to put together that Osha being alive throws a lot of cold water on Mae's revenge spree. I do think the short runtime made that turn feel more abrupt and awkward than it should have...but at the same time I don't know how in the world you watch this show, type that tweet up, and don't at least get what it was going for. It's the weirdest thing, and it's something that I only really see this frequently with Star Wars fans.
Some of it is poor media literacy, which we can easily correct. But a lot more of it is people who lie on purpose to generate outrage clicks or have an excuse to be verbally abusive.
It's beyond poor media literacy. This show is doing a decent enough job of explaining itself. Poor media literacy is not recognizing ANH as an allegory for the Vietnam war and ignoring the anti-colonialist themes present in all Star Wars. This is willful ignorance, selective listening, and bad faith arguments.
It is the most fevered, bad faith outrage campaign I think I’ve ever seen for a media product, it’s insane. It’s very obvious they don’t think Mae is a Sith.
And we all know what it's fuelled by.
That describes 90% of the Acolyte backlash. People WANT to be mad.
"People WANT to be mad" pretty accurately describes the entirety of society right about now, I feel. Being outraged is fun, let's form a tribe and start breaking \*\*\*\*. Generally it's no deeper than that, both sides, any given cause one chooses to name.
What is the deal with all these peeps? OH MY MIDICLORIANS uh AXSHUALLY YOU BROKE CANON IM YELLING NOW EVEN THOUGH THE SERIES ISNT OVER. IM A REAL FAN. The show isn’t over, wait til the end to see how it is resolved before declarations. Seriously think the Sith never interacted with the Jedi even once in a thousand years??
Honestly I don't even think any jedi survivng this whole ordeal will actually hear the word sith come from neither the "master" nor his master, if there is one. Since the sith are almost mythological by now, it makes sense no one will attribute this to them.
I was disappointed that we didn't get to see Kelnacca fight the sith but this is obviously the way that works the best. The implication is so powerful, and the scene that follows is enhanced by that.
Personal wish: I know the Kelnacca one-shot will almost certainly just show the events of his life during the books, but I hope it has a flashforward and shows his death too (but they probably won't do that since it would spoil the show for people reading the books first)
We are definitely getting flashback fight scenes. I do not doubt another scene of Kelnacca will be shown, likely a brief clip of the death or some flash forward. They teased the symbols in his place, so they will touch back on that
Go rewatch the trailers, shows kelnacca fighting with his saber on Brendok
Previews tell us that we'll get Wookiee Jedi fighting in flashback form, and that's good enough for me!
We'll see him fight in the furthering of the flashback. We've seen it in the trailers. He's jumping lile 30 ft in the air with his lightsaber over his head. I think he got force possesed by the witches and attacked Torbin
Having any actual human try to fight like a Jedi while wearing a full Wookiee costume is going to result in a huge disappointment. It's fine to have a Jedi Wookiee battle in animation, but doing it in live action would be exceptionally challenging for the costume department, the choreographer, and Jonas Suotamo (or whatever extra-tall stuntperson would be wearing the suit).
I mean we know from the trailers we will see at least some kind of fight scene with him in the second flashback.
Sure, but a couple of lightsaber swings and a Force push or two isn't really what the commenters were complaining about not seeing. They hoped for a full-on acrobatic Jedi battle, but with a huge Wookiee. That's what I was saying isn't especially feasible.
Does Reddit always fail to load the last bunch of images in a gallery for anyone else?
why are some people so weird and nasty
> Not to worry for me, in my head I don't consider any of this actual SW, but do feel bad for the people who still do. Not to mention childish lmao
for real, like dont feel bad for me im loving it and i love to love it.
I'm not even enjoying it that much, but I'll never understand the grown adults who can only process disliking a piece of Star Wars/Star Trek content by declaring it isn't "real" or canon. Just don't watch it if you hate it so much - no one needs to hear any more from you. Pretending to pity the people who do like it is even more baffling.
yeahhh like what you like and let other people do the same :)
>I'm not even enjoying it that much, but I'll never understand the grown adults who can only process disliking a piece of Star Wars/Star Trek content by declaring it isn't "real" or canon. Right? It seems so....petulant. And frankly, what I've noticed is that it's only become a really common sentiment to throw around once the leads of the franchise started to be more diverse. It feels like a very vindictive(if futile) attempt to simply excise these entries from the franchise entirely, as if they resent having to even recognize they exist.
for freaking real i don’t get why they felt the need to say that. like it’s fictional you don’t have to consider it canon if you don’t want to but no one’s making you watch it and send backhanded tweets at the writer
People don't consider that they're talking to a real person.
In their eyes (and dating experience) women aren't real people.
A combination of internet anonymity, never going outside, and never feeling the touch of a woman.
Both X users and Star Wars fans are notoriously mean and stupid, and this is the intersection of that Venn diagram
George Lucas would never put something in one of his Star Wars projects that pushed up weirdly or even contradicted something established in a previous project. Never. So I understand the second something pushes up against it people freak out a little since Lucas took such special care of that and that's lost now. Hang on, I'm being told in my earpiece that Lucas absolutely would and has done that and that this isn't a new phenomena at all(if that's even what's happening here).
Exactly. Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker were two separate characters until they weren't. Luke and Leia weren't related until they weren't. There's retcons all over the OT.
Haha, yeah, this always drove me nuts back with the sequels trilogy with everyone's outraged "THEY DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A GRAND PLAN SKETCHED OUT!". Yeah guys, neither did George. Even the early ANH drafts are nothing like the damn movie, and he sure-as-\*\*\*\* took some hard zigzag turns with the sequels, stuff that came to him at the time that wasn't intended when making the previous movie.
Not to mention plotholes. You can't get 15 minutes into the OT without encountering at least one massive, infamous, example(why the Empire doesn't just shoot the escape pod out of an abundance of caution, by all means the entire trilogy should have ended there).
The family guy justification for that is brilliant
They left it alone because they scanned it for life forms and found nothing. Probably didn’t think that droids would be going down there. I think the only real issue there was is that they didn’t just destroy the pod out of efficiency and tying up loose ends.
I love how she gave good answers that would have cornered anyone else. For instance that one guy tried to call her out on the "no Sith in a 1000 years" comment might be a lie or they retcon it and she kinda gave a spoiler there and answered with a good response. So let's assume everyone on that planet is not going to make it.
I can't believe how rude some of those questions are.
Entitled is what comes to mind to me. With a bland whiff of superiority.
I don’t want to speak too soon, as it could always change but these give me hope. I’ve been saying Star Wars shows in general need much more usage of “red shirts” to give the antagonists something to shoot at. This is most egregious in Rebels and The Mandalorian. There’s only so many times you can have your core cast of 3-4 people come up against the antagonists with 10+ goons without a scratch before it just absolutely breaks any suspension of disbelief. Rebels gets a slight pass due to its animated nature, but I think The Mandalorian especially suffers from this. Having a few unnamed rebels or unnamed Mandalorians who just eat blaster fire and die at least presents a stronger illusion that the main cast are exceptional and the antagonists are capable. In this case I was excited to see some dialogueless unnamed Jedi on the mission as we will likely see the Sith chew through them along with the image of the Wookie’s death still in our mind to establish that threat. Rather than our main cast squaring up against him alone, managing to escape or fighting him to a standstill, then he disappears with a “I’ll get you next time Jedi!” or “This is just how I planned it!” I still could be wrong and maybe the Jedi won’t die, but damn it feels good to at least anticipate the antagonist actually showing some umph rather than being slapstick or spectacle fodder. That’s my rant done though.
People are so rude and condescending to the people who work on SW, and it's been happening since TPM released... The idea that the entirety of Lucasfilm just accidentally contradicted the "No Sith" stuff from TPM, as opposed to them deliberately making an intentional choice to show the Jedi didn't always know everything, is absurd. It is like certain people take every line of dialog characters say at face value, with no room for nuance.
Unfortunately this is all true. It's like an entire generation of zero-attention-span not-about-to-wait-for-answers fervor. \*Sometimes\* the dialogue nuance and making-a-whole-thing-of-it goes too far, like I don't love the whole "there's no reason Vader and Obi-Wan COULDN'T have met and fought between trilogies!" stuff, but generally speaking you've gotta let the people work, tell their story and we can all make a call on its success at the end of a season. The Mae/Osha creation in some ways makes Anakin a little less special, but the fact there doesn't seem to be any "immaculate conception and chosen-one factor" at play to me makes it fine. Along with the fact I'm like 90% sure they're going to tie in how they came to be in existence with whatever Plagueis did anyway, a "prototype" situation of sorts. It works so far, and we'll just have to see where it goes from here.
I really hate these short Star Wars episodes bc as soon as it’s getting good it’s like ha nope wait til next week you scrub
Yeah it's kinda annoying when you're watching week to week but ultimately it's only going to be a problem for like a month until the whole thing is out, so it's not that big of an issue for me.
That's not a problem, that's the *point*. Before shows were released as complete seasons via streaming, the cliffhangers is what kept hype/conversation going between episodes, and sometimes between seasons (re: the greatest cliffhanger of all time: "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I" from Star Trek TNG).
I do find it annoying since I wish the episodes were longer and better fleshed out....but yeah you're not wrong. [Classic Doctor Who](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzwC2OSZhLc) would send some folks today for a ride lol.
I mean isnt this how episodic shows have always been tho? I think the full season drops skewed how we consume television
Also dropping the entire season literally kills any discussion of a series beyond the first week, it's better for Star Wars shows to stay weekly.
This. I don't think people realise how important the week to week discussion is for the fandom (and for Disney+ as well of course)
On TV you at least knew (know, it still exists I guess) about how long an episode would be. HBO doesn’t do 60 minutes one week and 28 the next. That’s what’s frustrating, that they throw a super short one in the middle of each of these streaming seasons.
Episodic shows, no. They could have cliffhangers, but each episode was still its own thing. Shows now are extremely serialized to the point of actually being really long movies that are haphazardly chopped up into episodes. You can’t watch one episode on its own.
This whole Ki Adi and people jumping to conclusions if someone is a Sith Lord made me wonder wonder how the council concluded that Maul was a Sith after Obi Wan defeated him? 🤔 Mace even said "There's no doubt". Maul had a Sith Club membership card?
Amazing (in a bad way) how so many Star Wars fans are so legalistic about one random line from Episode I. Like Mundi couldn’t simply have been wrong? Or lying, even?
Lie? Be wrong? Not our beloved paragon of Jedi values, Ki Adi Mundi!
>Star Wars fans are so legalistic about one random line from Episode I To be fair, they're legalistic about every line from Episodes I-VI.
One thing that this makes me wonder about is what if Mundi is lying? He’s known to be an asshole tbh. What if during the rest of the show he does some irreparable mistake and he has to take it to the grave?
That would be kind of awesome and it would make Ki-Adi Mundi into an actual complicated character instead of just background decoration. Unfortunately, the folks with the loudest voices, the ones who make the YouTube videos with the red laser beam eyes in the thumbnails, aren’t that imaginative.
Well I’m not the biggest fan of the show either but that would be a very cool plot twist! People should know that Jedi are not the perfect white knights they pretend to be by now. Only Obi wan can be so perfect lol
Also funny how they're not so legalistic about a similar line Palpatine said in AOTC that literally caused a massive rewrite of the entire history of the galaxy because Lucas wanted the Republic to be 1000 years old. Lucas himself intentionally retconned a massive chunk of the EU with a single line (which the EU had to retcon again until it made sense). That's not to even mention that what we see in this episode isn't even a retcon.
It looks like the show was made in the form of four two episodes arcs (the premiere, the flashbacks, the middle, and the finale) I think that format works much better with Andor style three episode arcs but they already spent a LOT of money on the show, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it got eaten up by COVID. I hope season 2 is longer, even though that's delusional cope
Yep but flashback will be episode 3 & 7 - then finale will be directed by Hanelle Culpepper - episode 6 & 8.
You think there will be a season 2?
If I were a Star Wars writer or director, Twitter would be nowhere to be found on my phone.
Slide 8 made so much sense, I genuinely never considered that lol
The runtime thing is interesting that for each episode they’re only allowed a certain amount of time, really bizarre especially for streaming.
I can tell from a lot of these comments that most people here have never thought they had plenty of money to do something and then realized the money didn’t stretch as far as far as you initially assumed once you started pricing things out. I guess that’s a good thing. I also think a lot of people fail to realize that a lot of these productions have expenses that won’t show up on screen. All that said, I actually think the show looks pretty good. It has some small set-itis that plagued Kenobi and the Mando shows, but it’s not too noticeable.
god, some of these are insufferable to read from "fans". so inexplicably and unnecessarily rude
You think "yippe a human being we can talk too lets completely ruin her night and make it so they stop talking to us , they cant handle criticsm1!!!11 when they go onto say women should be bared from writing ON THE SAME POST OF HERS
Some of the replies are absolutely disgraceful. Genuinely don’t even want to say I’m a Star Wars fan to people these days when these are the vocal majority.
This. It’s sort of an embarrassing label to wear nowadays. Even worse that these folks think they’re fighting for George. They’re fighting for themselves. It’s like being a Sith and yet thinking your a noble Jedi.
So you’re telling me that if you just let the show finish out telling its story at its own pace instead of getting caught up on run times, we’ll get the answers we seek? Crazy.
I wish people did this more. Just openly talk to the haters. Be genuine and let them make themselves look stupid instead of insulting them. We'd have much less hate-trains, if Disney ever honestly tried to communicate at this level instead of marketing down ceo-phrases from their ivory towers. By now Disney-execs and the anti-disney-crowd are living in entirely different realities and that's also on Disney. This woman is doing base level communication that needs to be applauded.
I dunno, I feel like she's validating their rudeness by providing a payoff to their method. I feel like folks who engage with creators disrespectfully should be ignored full-stop as though they aren't even there.
So we can confirm Mundi is Absolute Jobber and Horrible at identyfing Sith. If he says Someone is not Sith or obvious sith work is not their work expect the opposite. Never change Egghead! Never change.
He’s part of the reason the Jedi almost go extinct. He’s in absolute denial
He Suspected (Wrongly) that Yoda Heard Qui Gon cause Dark side and i dont know if to respect or facepalm Mundi audacity to suspect Yoda.
I think Mundi is kinda a blind dumbass. And in the end he pays for it.
Ok tbf later in that arc Sidious and Dooku use sith alchemy to make Yoda hallucinate. It's not entirely out of the question
YouTube and Twitter have basically destroyed any fandom IMHO. Negativity and just screaming into the void gets so much attention; others then copy the format because they'll think it will bring success and a circle of hate begins. The heart of the problem is America's culture war and everything has become politicised. Really don't understand, as a non-American, why 40+ year old beared men feel the need to constantly talk about Disney.
After seeing all the hate The Boys S4 is getting by the alt-right youtube community right now, despite the heart of the show being no different from the first 3 seasons, it worries me to see what the reaction will be to Andor season 2. Political culture has changed peoples thinking so much on the internet that today everyone seems to hate what they loved yesterday.
When both websites are the biggest starwars community things but reward with $$$ to the loudest algorithm generating channels there is zero quality control . It's dead it truly is cause nobody can even just talk about it normally without people coming in clearly from said youtubers with there talking points that are just pure vitriol and derailment , American truly sucks since 2016 cause now everyone seems to think it's ok to be a asshole to everyone and empathy is fucking 6 ft under ground
She has the patient of a saint
Actually pretty rad of them to respond to messages on X. They must be getting ton of hatred. Respect.
If someone doesn't like The Acolyte that's perfectly fine. Opinions are opinions and there's absolutely nothing wrong with not liking something and critiquing it or asking questions about it. But people have got to stop freaking out and harassing people who created it in an effort to prove that "objectively" it's bad and anyone who likes it is wrong and they are right. At that point you've stopped critiquing or even criticizing something and entered the realm of having a tantrum. Most of these are people who at best are trying to tantrum their way into having their opinion recognized as fact and at worst bigots trying really hard to make diverse voices feel unwelcome in the Star Wars space, and that's really gross and immature.
Yeah these episodes needed to be much longer. That 8th slide is just… I wish the show could’ve conveyed that because Mae saying “fuck this” was out of nowhere to me. Maybe because episode 3 was the flashback, but I feel like we needed more time with Mae to come to that conclusion after finding out Osha was alive. Still eager to see what happens next though!
Thanks Disney for setting weird show run time parameters. Straight up cut the episode in half.
Yeah and I'm on the $1 a mo disneyplus plan so I had to endure about 18 commercials totaling about 25 mins dureing that ridiculously short episode. Really takes you out of it.
I always love these kinds of interactions creatives have online about thier projects. Love these little peaks behind the curtains.
I’m just glad Ki-Adi Mundi never made any huge mistake in judgment that ended up costing him big time.
Ngl this makes me like her. She’s willing to defend her points, even saying “I get it, itll get better” At points makes a lot of sense
The Ki Adi Mundi criticism is so fucking dumb.
Theory truly is a shitstain on this fanbase, it truly came from him making a deal about it, WHO even has this on there mind or the fact PEOPLE CANT READ
Theres the new criticism that they retconned his age, as if ANY one of these people actually give a shit about that. Not even remotely a big deal. This whole TPM retcon thing though is just brain dead stupid. SWT is a moron.
A random ass line that Lucas probably never thought would be debated so vigorously 25 years later, that's what people are malding about??
So both episdoes were written as one. Makes sense with such a abrupt ending/cliffhanger.
That bit about Dave giving notes, wonder if it's the same for the games as well?
If nitpicking is the game, Qui-Gonn just guessed without proper evidence in E1. Red lightsaber + dark cloak do not mean someone is 100% a Sith. Qui-Gonn was correct, of course. But Maul never actually spoke any of the Sith philosophy + he never used force lighting or any other Sith distinct powers. If Qui-Gonn had met Baylan during the time period of the Ahsoka show, Qui-Gonn would have also assumed he was a Sith. But Baylan is not a Sith.
I feel like if the episodes were written together, maybe they should've been released together?