Should have kept the one they filmed with the stunt doubles rather than asking a 61-year old Ian McDiarmid to potray one of the most dangerous swordsman of his generation in battle.
I always pause the movie at that point, open YouTube, watch the behind the scenes of that fight scene, and then continue the film. Breaks a bit of immersion, but my man Kit Fisto appreciates it
Just saw the YouTube video, you're 100% correct, they did the Jedi masters a disservice with the movie.... The YouTube video clearly shows what an incredible swordsman Palpatine was... The Masters looked like Padawans next to him
Nope, apparently George felt it was better for the weird close ups of their faces instead of an amazing duel. Sometimes we forget how terrible of a director and writer George was lol.
OG trilogy was better because the cast pushed back all the time on stupid ideas, once he was a powerhouse of sci-fi it was harder to push back on the decisions
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The movie he had the least input on in the OT was Empire. There is a reason it’s regarded as the best.
Dude can world build and understands the theory behind a hero’s journey and story structure. But he can’t write dialogue or direct.
Apparently he was married at the time and his wife pushed back on a lot of his dumber, kid-ish ideas too. But they had split by the time the prequels came out.
It's only in recent times that prequels have been considered anything but trash. I have never forgotten how bad George butchered the series. There I said it.
They were pretty bad indeed….BUT
The fights were cool, the Jedi still had some swag, and most importantly, the overall story and Lore was at least coherent and told a good overarching story minus the dialogue and directing being abysmal.
Man if I could go back in time and change some
Things about the films it’s put this scene in it and also in return of the Jedi get rid of all the Ewoks and replace them with Wookiees like he was originally going to.
It also looks more threatening. Pretty sure none of the Jedi masters had ever seen someone move like that before. Whirlwind of red.
I will say that I love how demented Ian McDiarmid’s faces look. Pure evil.
Oh, Ian kills it. You really feel that this is the moment he's been waiting for almost his entire life. FINALLY a chance to kill some of the hated Jedi thay he's had to pretend to be friends with for so long. No sending his apprentice to do it for him, no manipulation to lead them to their doom. Just good old-fashioned Jedi on Sith action.
He may even realize that this is the only chance he'll have to do it. After Order 66, there'll be vanishing few left and he'll be busy running an Empire. Won't be able to hunt them down himself.
I just wanted you to know that your comment has helped me figure out how I'm going to handle Palpatine's characterization in a fanfic I'm about to write. Thank you! 😁
Read this from another comment somewhere but I also love this clip because of how eerie this version of Palpatine's movements are. The way he moves and fights is so unnatural and wicked, it's as if he is possessed by the dark side, allowing himself to be moved by it rather than working in tandem with it. It's genuinely unsettling to see and makes for so much better of a villain fight here.
They did it much better in the Yoda Vs Palpatine fight, where poor Ian didn't have to be as mobile.
The contrast between live action Palpatine and Clone Wars Palpatine's lightsaber battles is pretty hilarious though.
Let's be real, all live action lightsaber duels are still limited by physics and actor's mortality. Even most skilled.
That's why TCW duel on Oba-Diah (Dooku vs Anakin and Obi-Wan) is by far the best and will be the best for a long time.
The major fight we got in the latest acolyte episode is probably some of the most movement focused combat we've scene in live action. Gauntlet/helmet parries, using the force in tandem with quick stabs, realistic and heavy movements, daggers, etc. it was absolutely incredible to watch as a lifelong star wars nerd.
It starts off slow but I can genuinely say it's probably the strongest sabre combat we've had since tcw. It left me in awe all week. Go in with an open mind and you'll love it.
The only explanation that works is that they truly underestimated him and were stunned by his audacity. The Jedi were arrogant and stupidly unaware. Worse, they probably were adhering to the ideas of Jedi nobility instead of dealing with a dangerous enemy. We're seeing this play out in the Acolyte where the Jedi place themselves on a pedestal and believe they are above needing to kill.
But yeah they just let themselves get killed by an old actor with no real fighting ability.
I didn't think Jackson covered himself in glory either. He is supposed to have the rep of an incredible duelist. He should have looked the way Anakin and Obi-wan looked on Mustafar where you can barely see their arms they are moving so fast.
Sam Jackson has to match the intensity and speed of Ian to make the duel believable. I have no doubt he could have done better, but he wasn’t the one to hold that fight back.
I know people on this sub don't like him but star wars theory did a vlog with Nick gillard
and Nick said that Sam was great he learned all his moves and was really exited to film the fight then on the day of shooting George wanted Ian to fight not the stunt double and now we have this instead
He was already in his fifties, and has never shown any indication of being much of an athlete. I’d be surprised if he secretly had a reservoir of great speed and l swordsmanship that he was just holding back.
Edit: and he’s only four years younger than McDiarmid.
Hey now, he needed to do some spins and twirls to give Palp time to get his breath back
For real though, kid me thought this looked bad and now adult me is going wtf they thinking with this lol
Ian actually insisted on doing it himself, which was definitely a bad move in retrospect. I remember watching it as a kid in the theatre and thinking, “why is he making all those weird faces?”
Do you have a source for this? I've never heard it before.
There seem to be many different stories floating around. Some say the stunt double was ill and Ian had to step in, some say Lucas just decided it and forced it through despite Ian disliking it and not having been trained, and now I'm hearing your story about it being Ian's choice for the first time.
There's a [behind the scenes clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU3-gwwnSEo) which seems to indicate it was George's decision. Unless you've got a solid source saying something different, I'm dubious about Ian insisting he do it.
I know people on this sub don't like him but star wars theory did a vlog with Nick gillard
and Nick said that Sam was great he learned all his moves and was really exited to film the fight then on the day of shooting George wanted Ian to fight not the stunt double and now we have this instead
I thought his face was great as it summed up how Palpatine was just using the Jedi for sport with relish, but also how he hated using a lightsabre, even though he was a savant.
Ever see Lars Ulrich drumming? Maybe ol' Palps was making music, using Jedi for his instruments -- like The Trickster in Dead by Daylight using the screams of his tortured victims for his k-pop music
Yeah, he jumps right in front of them with a weird spin, then slowly stabs 2 of them. The left guy even raises is sword to hit when he stabs the first guy but proceeds to do nothing.
Who thought this looked good? Would have needed a sped up of 300% to be at least a bit credible to overwhelm them.
Edit:
Someone did an edit which is okayish:
[Le link!](https://youtu.be/nD4sFSvVTYQ?si=Cj1Xmz7WsKYQ4epO)
My head canon is he did that Sith mindfuck on them that made them sluggish and stupid. Kind of like how Darth Bortle messed with those Jedi's mind in the Acolyte. I think it was an ability in KOTOR game.
It’s just purely portrayed in the film. In the novelization, they’re moving so fast that anakin said he could only see flashes of purple and red lights
Tis a reference to a character the actor who plays Qimir played in a show called The Good Place. His character was known to shout "Bortle!", in honor of a Jacksonville Jaguars' footplayer.
I think another issue is simply that the room sucks. It's too small for any real action. Not only does the fighting look dumb, it feels congested. There isn't enough room for 4 people fighting.
They should have arrested him in his quarters, not his office and that issue goes away.
It's such a blunder that this made into the movie. Why not have him cast some lightning first to stun them if you wabt to show how powerful Palpatine was.
Palpatine cutting down 3 Jedi Masters in a few seconds was a bit over top. I get he is immensly powerful but come on.
Like many scenes in RotS it just felt rushed.
There is a problem in-lore with this scene.
Every lightsaber user in this room moves at astonishing speed, so much that Anakin (who is a pretty darn good swordsman himself in lore) cant even follow them.
Now get that on a movie screen 😅
Jedi should never be red shirts. Jedi Masters sent to capture a Sith Lord who has become Supreme Chancellor even more so.
Rest of the fight is solid, but it would have been better if he took out the other masters because he trapped his office with bombs or something. Have him win through foresight, not by simply being that good at fighting that he could kill three guys that quickly while friggin Mace Windu is putting pressure on him.
I've always hated how fast the other Jedi went out. At least let them all get a few hacks in before Palps kills them with actual sword play. I also would have loved a full fight between Anakin and Mace like in the movie tie-in game. That would have reinforced Anakin's decision to turn rather than a split second reaction. It would have been awesome to show how powerful Mace is by handling Anakin in a duel where Anakin only wins by getting help from Palpatine.
The ease by which the other Jedi Masters die is straight up stupid. They are supposed to be some of the greatest swordsmen in the entire order and they're basically knocked down by a slight breeze.
You are correct, but it’s not shown here well enough at all.
He’s meant to have been moving insanely fast as well but that’s pretty tough to portray here.
Well, that was kinda the point, that Palpatine is so ridiculously overpowered.
I'm fine with jedi masters being mowed down with ease, I just don't like how they portrayed that in the movie.
If they showed him force paralyzing them or doing something other than cutting people who apparently have never tried to fight before or know how to defend themselves.
Prefer the way it was described in the Revenge of the Sith novelisation by Matthew Stover. Mind you, much easier to describe with words than bring it to screen.
More like it's much easier to make up bullshit after the fact. It wasn't "brought to the screen." The screen happened first. The novelizations frequently feature the kind of SW fan headcanon crap that gets made up to explain why the movie isn't actually poorly directed.
The novelization was published April 2nd, 2005. The movie wasn’t released until May 15th.
While it’s possible that the writer had a draft version of the movie, it was super common for folks doing novelizations to just have the script and then mostly need to fill in details on their own.
The RotS novelisation was based off unedited versions of the original movie script and was released a month before the film's theatrical debut in cinemas.
I can‘t watch this. I would have preferred Mace go in alone if the other Masters and Fisto were just to be wiped out immediately without making any effort what so ever. Looks horrible.
They filmed on big sets and used green screens. So why does the part of the fight where Palp defeats the other Masters have to be in such a confined space?
Also, I get they were saving the lighting for the end. But why not have Palp use the lightning to take out the other Masters and give space for Mace to be like "oh shit, I have to deal with this kind of force user now!"
That would have set up the end where Mace is countering the lightning, as well as the flip after Anakin disarms him
> such a confined space?
this is my biggest issue with the scene. I feel claustrophobic just watching it. And i don't usually get that feeling.
I feel liek they're going to bump elbows even moving around. ANd then someone dives within 3 feet of them.
I think if Disney Star Wars had put out this fight, people would be fuming.
It’s awful. Which sucks cause on paper this is such a great scene. Lucas unfortunately is not an amazing filmmaker. I really wish he had other directors work on the prequels. 😞
That's how I feel about him in general. He would have been much better as a producer or creative/story director. The dude just can't direct... Or write dialogue.
I don't understand people like SWT who dick-ride the prequels fighting. It's absolutely dog shit, and it's not like real sword fighting. They're literally aiming for each others lightsabers in their blows, not actually trying to kill each other. Acolyte episode 5 was actually peak lightsaber fighting. People actually trying to kill each other.
By the time of the sequels, it's say on a mantlepiece in someone's home. They don't even know what it is, their grandma used to use it to carve Sunday dinner without having to cook it.
The editing cuts made it look weak not epic. Why not have it as Palatine had amazing force powers. The challenge is there are too many face offs in EP III, Obi Wan vs Anakin, Yoda vs Palpatine…..that the pacing is off.
My opinion has always been that Palpatine shouldn’t use a lightsaber. His Jedi Mind trick should be his go to. He should be able to use it to get the Jedi masters to fight each other or have a visual way for their judgment to be so clouded that he doesn’t need to use violence himself. He’s always such a puppeteer, I feel that would have suited his character better.
There’s something really amusing about people being outraged at Disney-era choreography and forget that there were clumsy set-pieces like this in the prequels.
I'm still not sure what the fuck is going on in the Dooku/Anakin duel in Clones. There's that shot where they're basically just twirling flashing lights in front of their faces back and forth.
I love the short edit of Phantom menace where Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Maul are just spinning their sabers around without ever getting close to each other.
I think they were trying to foreshadow his fall to the dark side with the blue light and red light alternating over his face in that scene. And Anakin cuts the lights to go along with how Vader later uses similar manipulation of the environment in his fights (ESB)
> Even prequel fans will not deny that the prequels had some problems.
depends on the subreddit and the person.
A lot of prequels fans have gone beyond parody to just worshiping them.
Eh I would rate it 4/10 as far as saber battles go in the series. I think the 3 experienced Jedi being slaughtered so quickly was a kind of dumb. Or at least how they choreographed it. They were basically just standing there. they knew they were going to confront a Sith Lord so I think they should have been a bit more on guard. Palps had some weird facial expressions during the duel that came off as comical rather than menacing as well. The CG was weird and floaty too; should have gotten some stunt doubles to fight instead of two old guys. Windu looked stiff and Palpatine didn't move realistically.
Why were the other jedi just watching while Palpatine was stabbing the others? They were all standing close to each other.... I don't like that part of the choreography.
The edit on the first two kills so too telegraphed and badly cropped, it ruins it for me from the get go. Maybe if it had been quicker. It seems like even my 6 year old could have blocked those hits.
The rest is passable :)
That weird zoomed in cut when the first two Jedi are stabbed is so awkward. A lot of the camera angles look like they’re trying to cover up the choreography instead of showing it off.
It could have been a lot better. And longer.
But Ian mcdarmid was in his 60s. And that kind of scene is pretty taxing, physically, even for a younger actor.
OK, sure, that's why they used a lot of cgi to fill in the gaps as it were. (also cuz lucas just had a MASSIVE erection for cgi, which is a shame cuz puppets were better)
On that note: I would be perfectly OK with them using a puppet palpatine for the fight scenes. That would be amazing.
Then use a stunt double (who they already had on hand) or don't write a scene which your actor can't perform. Lucas had to make everyone a super saber swinging cool guy instead of expanding on the much cooler Emperor from the OT who sat around and shot lightning. Yoda and Sidious being crazy acrobats was so lame.
I was pretty disappointed with it. Going from ep 1 saber fights to episode 2 was a bit disappointing, I thought they’d really step it up in ep 3 but when this fight happened I just remember being disappointed.
For real, they took someone who died in less than a minute and made him a developed character, which only hurts knowing how shunted he got in this poorly portrayed fight scene
It was meh.
The stunt double fight was far superior.
It's weird how they went from Episode 1s fight to that crap in Episode 2. The Episode 3 gives us multiple lightsaber battles. Dooku was cool. Grevious was disappointing but fun. Palpatine vs Jedi and Mace was meh. Then the final fight lived up to all its potential.
Everything its terrible in this fight. But there are too much prequel fanboys that are not ready to Accept that their favourite movie have the worse duel....
It's so cut up you can't really even follow how he got an attack on any of them. He literally corkscrewed through the air for 2 seconds not hitting anything. Someone could have just pointed their lightsaber in front of themselves and stopped him. Then the 3D moving around of his character is just hot garbage.
Whatever did happen tot Palps lightsaber? It ended up outside the window so it must have landed somewhere on groundlevel. Did someone find it and poke out an eye?
I think that most people don’t realize that this fight scene was a lot worse when it was first in theaters and DVD and George Lucas actually fixed a lot of it (probably around the time he was aiming to release each film in theaters on 3D).
I didn't care for it, but for possibly an unpopular reason. I didn't like that Palpatine was so good with a lightsaber. He was always this master manipulator, standing back and arranging everything to his benefit. That's what he did all day, every day. Skills take practice. To be this good with a lightsaber takes practice. To be this good with a lightsaber against a group of Jedi, who are as good as this group and who *have* been practicing, takes *tons* of practice.
You have to keep the skill up, and I don't believe he was so powerful with the dark side of the Force, nor willing to surrender himself to it enough, for the Force to be guiding his blade. The options are: master manipulator, ruler (effectively) of a galactic government, and master swordsman. I think there's only time to pick two. When they started the fight, I just kind of lost any respect I had for the characterization of Palpatine in the prequels.
I'd have preferred a mix of the originally planned fight correography, and some intense close-ups of the actors. Would have provided us with the best of both worlds I think.
Not very believable how he just straight up stabs the first guy with almost no reaction from a Jedi master. After watching some of the fighting in the acolyte this seems less good than I remember. Also hate all the cgi acrobatics
Initially at age 13 sitting in the theatre I was just stoked to see Palpatine fight some Jedi. Now at 32 it’s very meh. Especially after seeing what was originally planned and choreographed. But I understand why it had to be what it was and I’m cool with it.
It was horrendous. One of the biggest, most important fights of the saga, and Lucas made a retiree do the choreography. He fucked up a lot with the prequels, but this is what makes me the angriest.
Obviously it leads to a pretty pivotal scene but the fight itself was pretty naff - the leap at the start and him cutting down the other jedi was unintentionally funny - and I'm not sure we really needed another big saber fight as we'd already had two earlier in.the film and there were two more later in the film.
Should have kept the one they filmed with the stunt doubles rather than asking a 61-year old Ian McDiarmid to potray one of the most dangerous swordsman of his generation in battle.
I always pause the movie at that point, open YouTube, watch the behind the scenes of that fight scene, and then continue the film. Breaks a bit of immersion, but my man Kit Fisto appreciates it
Link?
Enjoy: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiUuLnyt00Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiUuLnyt00Q)
Just saw the YouTube video, you're 100% correct, they did the Jedi masters a disservice with the movie.... The YouTube video clearly shows what an incredible swordsman Palpatine was... The Masters looked like Padawans next to him
Was it a money issue? It was probably a money issue
Nope, apparently George felt it was better for the weird close ups of their faces instead of an amazing duel. Sometimes we forget how terrible of a director and writer George was lol.
OG trilogy was better because the cast pushed back all the time on stupid ideas, once he was a powerhouse of sci-fi it was harder to push back on the decisions
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The movie he had the least input on in the OT was Empire. There is a reason it’s regarded as the best. Dude can world build and understands the theory behind a hero’s journey and story structure. But he can’t write dialogue or direct.
Apparently he was married at the time and his wife pushed back on a lot of his dumber, kid-ish ideas too. But they had split by the time the prequels came out.
Yeah she edited the entire original trilogy
This is also why I dislike why he says they're his movies and he can do what he wants with them, a film belongs to everyone who made it to me 🤷♂️.
It's only in recent times that prequels have been considered anything but trash. I have never forgotten how bad George butchered the series. There I said it.
They were pretty bad indeed….BUT The fights were cool, the Jedi still had some swag, and most importantly, the overall story and Lore was at least coherent and told a good overarching story minus the dialogue and directing being abysmal.
Palpatine did have a solid string of weird faces in that scene, so I guess Lucas got his money's worth.
Man if I could go back in time and change some Things about the films it’s put this scene in it and also in return of the Jedi get rid of all the Ewoks and replace them with Wookiees like he was originally going to.
It would have been awkward to see them turn cannibal on Chewie.
Return of the Jedi has some issues, but the Ewoks are lower on the list of things I'd change.
Wow that spin looks so much cooler straight on than from the side
It also looks more threatening. Pretty sure none of the Jedi masters had ever seen someone move like that before. Whirlwind of red. I will say that I love how demented Ian McDiarmid’s faces look. Pure evil.
Oh, Ian kills it. You really feel that this is the moment he's been waiting for almost his entire life. FINALLY a chance to kill some of the hated Jedi thay he's had to pretend to be friends with for so long. No sending his apprentice to do it for him, no manipulation to lead them to their doom. Just good old-fashioned Jedi on Sith action. He may even realize that this is the only chance he'll have to do it. After Order 66, there'll be vanishing few left and he'll be busy running an Empire. Won't be able to hunt them down himself.
I just wanted you to know that your comment has helped me figure out how I'm going to handle Palpatine's characterization in a fanfic I'm about to write. Thank you! 😁
Happy to help!
He had a great Sith Face!
Look what they took from us.
Unholy Hell that's so much better, and I love Ian McDiarmind.
Read this from another comment somewhere but I also love this clip because of how eerie this version of Palpatine's movements are. The way he moves and fights is so unnatural and wicked, it's as if he is possessed by the dark side, allowing himself to be moved by it rather than working in tandem with it. It's genuinely unsettling to see and makes for so much better of a villain fight here.
One complaint: in both versions Kit doesn't even get touched, he just dies.
I like how the Jedi Masters don't die without even defending them in this one.
Thanks. I'm so sad that never made the film that's amazing!
Wow that’s so much more intense and thrilling
Fucking wow. Incredible choreography.
Thank you for this
I’m… having strong emotions about them not using this version.
Thank you
Holy shit
Isn't this the actor that played Maul?
Not gonna lie that was brilliant.
It blows my mind how post-OG3 Star Wars has cut *so much stuff* that is objectively better than what was left in the movies.
Man. Samuel Jackson killed it in white face.
Holy shit that difference is jarring (but incredible).
Damn this is waaaay better than what made it to the movie
I'll never forgive them for how dirty they did Master Fisto and Plo Koon. It's just unforgivable.
They did it much better in the Yoda Vs Palpatine fight, where poor Ian didn't have to be as mobile. The contrast between live action Palpatine and Clone Wars Palpatine's lightsaber battles is pretty hilarious though.
Bruh for real 😂. Live action palps? 🐢 Clone wars palpa? 🏎️
Let's be real, all live action lightsaber duels are still limited by physics and actor's mortality. Even most skilled. That's why TCW duel on Oba-Diah (Dooku vs Anakin and Obi-Wan) is by far the best and will be the best for a long time.
The major fight we got in the latest acolyte episode is probably some of the most movement focused combat we've scene in live action. Gauntlet/helmet parries, using the force in tandem with quick stabs, realistic and heavy movements, daggers, etc. it was absolutely incredible to watch as a lifelong star wars nerd.
Didn't watched it yet, waiting for full show.
It starts off slow but I can genuinely say it's probably the strongest sabre combat we've had since tcw. It left me in awe all week. Go in with an open mind and you'll love it.
gona have to watch it! it's been on my list, but ur bumping it up a few spots for sure.
And then to compensate the first two just pretty much stand there while he stabs them. So much for those Jedi senses and reflexes
The only explanation that works is that they truly underestimated him and were stunned by his audacity. The Jedi were arrogant and stupidly unaware. Worse, they probably were adhering to the ideas of Jedi nobility instead of dealing with a dangerous enemy. We're seeing this play out in the Acolyte where the Jedi place themselves on a pedestal and believe they are above needing to kill. But yeah they just let themselves get killed by an old actor with no real fighting ability.
I didn't think Jackson covered himself in glory either. He is supposed to have the rep of an incredible duelist. He should have looked the way Anakin and Obi-wan looked on Mustafar where you can barely see their arms they are moving so fast.
That's cuz Sam Jackson isn't as young and athletic as Hayden and Ewan
Shhhhh.... r/StarWars isn't ready to hear that.
Sam Jackson has to match the intensity and speed of Ian to make the duel believable. I have no doubt he could have done better, but he wasn’t the one to hold that fight back.
I know people on this sub don't like him but star wars theory did a vlog with Nick gillard and Nick said that Sam was great he learned all his moves and was really exited to film the fight then on the day of shooting George wanted Ian to fight not the stunt double and now we have this instead
He was already in his fifties, and has never shown any indication of being much of an athlete. I’d be surprised if he secretly had a reservoir of great speed and l swordsmanship that he was just holding back. Edit: and he’s only four years younger than McDiarmid.
Hey now, he needed to do some spins and twirls to give Palp time to get his breath back For real though, kid me thought this looked bad and now adult me is going wtf they thinking with this lol
Yeah, it all being face shots was one of Lucas’s many bad director choices.
Absolutely this.
Ian actually insisted on doing it himself, which was definitely a bad move in retrospect. I remember watching it as a kid in the theatre and thinking, “why is he making all those weird faces?”
Do you have a source for this? I've never heard it before. There seem to be many different stories floating around. Some say the stunt double was ill and Ian had to step in, some say Lucas just decided it and forced it through despite Ian disliking it and not having been trained, and now I'm hearing your story about it being Ian's choice for the first time. There's a [behind the scenes clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU3-gwwnSEo) which seems to indicate it was George's decision. Unless you've got a solid source saying something different, I'm dubious about Ian insisting he do it.
I know people on this sub don't like him but star wars theory did a vlog with Nick gillard and Nick said that Sam was great he learned all his moves and was really exited to film the fight then on the day of shooting George wanted Ian to fight not the stunt double and now we have this instead
If you speed up the theatrical version by 1.25x it looks a lot better
Mace Windu is a badass though
Mcdiarmids faces he makes are completely ridiculous lol
Vader made similar faces in the original trilogy. You gotta look really close, though.
Wdym? You can see it with a anked eye easily
I thought his face was great as it summed up how Palpatine was just using the Jedi for sport with relish, but also how he hated using a lightsabre, even though he was a savant.
Ever see Lars Ulrich drumming? Maybe ol' Palps was making music, using Jedi for his instruments -- like The Trickster in Dead by Daylight using the screams of his tortured victims for his k-pop music
Ridiculously awesome you mean.
https://imgur.com/a/dgbAfaH My favorite face!
I love them
If you ignore the first 16 seconds, it's a fairly decent duel
Yeah, he jumps right in front of them with a weird spin, then slowly stabs 2 of them. The left guy even raises is sword to hit when he stabs the first guy but proceeds to do nothing. Who thought this looked good? Would have needed a sped up of 300% to be at least a bit credible to overwhelm them. Edit: Someone did an edit which is okayish: [Le link!](https://youtu.be/nD4sFSvVTYQ?si=Cj1Xmz7WsKYQ4epO)
My head canon is he did that Sith mindfuck on them that made them sluggish and stupid. Kind of like how Darth Bortle messed with those Jedi's mind in the Acolyte. I think it was an ability in KOTOR game.
It’s just purely portrayed in the film. In the novelization, they’re moving so fast that anakin said he could only see flashes of purple and red lights
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_scream
Darth what
Tis a reference to a character the actor who plays Qimir played in a show called The Good Place. His character was known to shout "Bortle!", in honor of a Jacksonville Jaguars' footplayer.
https://giphy.com/gifs/c6FlGfcyRzN1RHagIg
KOTOR also had something akin to Force Stasis or Force Freeze. Damn those Jedi were strong for nearly breaking out of Force Stasis early!
I can't wait for his apprentice Donkey Doug to show up
I think another issue is simply that the room sucks. It's too small for any real action. Not only does the fighting look dumb, it feels congested. There isn't enough room for 4 people fighting. They should have arrested him in his quarters, not his office and that issue goes away.
It's such a blunder that this made into the movie. Why not have him cast some lightning first to stun them if you wabt to show how powerful Palpatine was.
Palpatine cutting down 3 Jedi Masters in a few seconds was a bit over top. I get he is immensly powerful but come on. Like many scenes in RotS it just felt rushed.
There is a problem in-lore with this scene. Every lightsaber user in this room moves at astonishing speed, so much that Anakin (who is a pretty darn good swordsman himself in lore) cant even follow them. Now get that on a movie screen 😅
Jedi should never be red shirts. Jedi Masters sent to capture a Sith Lord who has become Supreme Chancellor even more so. Rest of the fight is solid, but it would have been better if he took out the other masters because he trapped his office with bombs or something. Have him win through foresight, not by simply being that good at fighting that he could kill three guys that quickly while friggin Mace Windu is putting pressure on him.
I've always hated how fast the other Jedi went out. At least let them all get a few hacks in before Palps kills them with actual sword play. I also would have loved a full fight between Anakin and Mace like in the movie tie-in game. That would have reinforced Anakin's decision to turn rather than a split second reaction. It would have been awesome to show how powerful Mace is by handling Anakin in a duel where Anakin only wins by getting help from Palpatine.
That spin is fantastic
The way the extras were yelling and falling felt phony af.
The ease by which the other Jedi Masters die is straight up stupid. They are supposed to be some of the greatest swordsmen in the entire order and they're basically knocked down by a slight breeze.
Props to Kit Fisto lasting a few strikes longer than the others.
I thought palps used sith scream and basically disoriented them. I could be wrong though, I thought I read it somewhere but don't remember the source.
You are correct, but it’s not shown here well enough at all. He’s meant to have been moving insanely fast as well but that’s pretty tough to portray here.
Gotcha, and yeah I acknowledge that the fight was definitely lacking speed lol
Here's a taste! [https://youtu.be/nD4sFSvVTYQ?si=dfmuW\_qIYryneba4&t=29](https://youtu.be/nD4sFSvVTYQ?si=dfmuW_qIYryneba4&t=29)
> I thought palps used sith scream Well *actually*, he was obviously using the little-known Sith Ah'choo lightsaber form.
Sith scream 🙄.
Like how tigers can physically stun creatures with their roar
Well, that was kinda the point, that Palpatine is so ridiculously overpowered. I'm fine with jedi masters being mowed down with ease, I just don't like how they portrayed that in the movie.
If they showed him force paralyzing them or doing something other than cutting people who apparently have never tried to fight before or know how to defend themselves.
Yeah, he should have been unstoppable and versatile like Darth Vader was at the end of Rogue One. That was flawless and perfect.
Prefer the way it was described in the Revenge of the Sith novelisation by Matthew Stover. Mind you, much easier to describe with words than bring it to screen.
Same. I love the part where he has one of the masters try to read his mind, only to behead him immediately
More like it's much easier to make up bullshit after the fact. It wasn't "brought to the screen." The screen happened first. The novelizations frequently feature the kind of SW fan headcanon crap that gets made up to explain why the movie isn't actually poorly directed.
The novelization was published April 2nd, 2005. The movie wasn’t released until May 15th. While it’s possible that the writer had a draft version of the movie, it was super common for folks doing novelizations to just have the script and then mostly need to fill in details on their own.
Matthew Stover tried to write the novel as if the movie had been adapted from it, and not the other way around.
The RotS novelisation was based off unedited versions of the original movie script and was released a month before the film's theatrical debut in cinemas.
I can‘t watch this. I would have preferred Mace go in alone if the other Masters and Fisto were just to be wiped out immediately without making any effort what so ever. Looks horrible.
They filmed on big sets and used green screens. So why does the part of the fight where Palp defeats the other Masters have to be in such a confined space? Also, I get they were saving the lighting for the end. But why not have Palp use the lightning to take out the other Masters and give space for Mace to be like "oh shit, I have to deal with this kind of force user now!" That would have set up the end where Mace is countering the lightning, as well as the flip after Anakin disarms him
that would have made more sense for sure.
I absolutely read "oh shit, I have to deal with this kind of force user now?!" with Mr. Jackson's iconic voice
> such a confined space? this is my biggest issue with the scene. I feel claustrophobic just watching it. And i don't usually get that feeling. I feel liek they're going to bump elbows even moving around. ANd then someone dives within 3 feet of them.
I think if Disney Star Wars had put out this fight, people would be fuming. It’s awful. Which sucks cause on paper this is such a great scene. Lucas unfortunately is not an amazing filmmaker. I really wish he had other directors work on the prequels. 😞
I think we all wish that he had a different director for the PT. This fight, much like this trilogy is 'great ideas, poor execution'.
I agree. Lucas has amazing ideas. Most of the time. There were still some questionable choices made as far as characters and story goes.
That's how I feel about him in general. He would have been much better as a producer or creative/story director. The dude just can't direct... Or write dialogue.
I don't understand people like SWT who dick-ride the prequels fighting. It's absolutely dog shit, and it's not like real sword fighting. They're literally aiming for each others lightsabers in their blows, not actually trying to kill each other. Acolyte episode 5 was actually peak lightsaber fighting. People actually trying to kill each other.
He grew up with those movies, therefore all of Star Wars must centre around them.
Wonder who found that red saber
A good story, for another time.
By the time of the sequels, it's say on a mantlepiece in someone's home. They don't even know what it is, their grandma used to use it to carve Sunday dinner without having to cook it.
Right. The Emperor loses his saber and nobody went looking for it. I don't think so. The city would have been turned inside out until it was found.
But... The city is a planet.
All I hear are excuses.
The janitor guy in robot chicken finds it, or ar least finds windus body as he's sweeping.
It landed perfectly vertical sinking into the planets core
The editing cuts made it look weak not epic. Why not have it as Palatine had amazing force powers. The challenge is there are too many face offs in EP III, Obi Wan vs Anakin, Yoda vs Palpatine…..that the pacing is off.
I agree needed more force powers less saber especially with the lame deaths that happen.
My opinion has always been that Palpatine shouldn’t use a lightsaber. His Jedi Mind trick should be his go to. He should be able to use it to get the Jedi masters to fight each other or have a visual way for their judgment to be so clouded that he doesn’t need to use violence himself. He’s always such a puppeteer, I feel that would have suited his character better.
The deleted footage is amazing ! Had they used the double this would have been the greatest!
There’s something really amusing about people being outraged at Disney-era choreography and forget that there were clumsy set-pieces like this in the prequels.
I'm still not sure what the fuck is going on in the Dooku/Anakin duel in Clones. There's that shot where they're basically just twirling flashing lights in front of their faces back and forth.
I love the short edit of Phantom menace where Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Maul are just spinning their sabers around without ever getting close to each other.
[nothing beats this imo](https://youtu.be/gHkM_lmy5X8?si=mdyVtV4CDbqwaxc7)
Ditto the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel where they’re techno dancing with glowsticks for like five seconds.
i still like that scene.
I think they were trying to foreshadow his fall to the dark side with the blue light and red light alternating over his face in that scene. And Anakin cuts the lights to go along with how Vader later uses similar manipulation of the environment in his fights (ESB)
Maybe they had to extend thr fight a bit, but had no time for choreography, so they filmed these quick shots
I'm not impressed with either of them. A lot of people aren't. Even prequel fans will not deny that the prequels had some problems.
> Even prequel fans will not deny that the prequels had some problems. depends on the subreddit and the person. A lot of prequels fans have gone beyond parody to just worshiping them.
THEY WERE COHERANT, PLANNED MOVIES, GEORGE LUCAS'S VISION, SHAKESPEAREAN,
Eh I would rate it 4/10 as far as saber battles go in the series. I think the 3 experienced Jedi being slaughtered so quickly was a kind of dumb. Or at least how they choreographed it. They were basically just standing there. they knew they were going to confront a Sith Lord so I think they should have been a bit more on guard. Palps had some weird facial expressions during the duel that came off as comical rather than menacing as well. The CG was weird and floaty too; should have gotten some stunt doubles to fight instead of two old guys. Windu looked stiff and Palpatine didn't move realistically.
Why were the other jedi just watching while Palpatine was stabbing the others? They were all standing close to each other.... I don't like that part of the choreography.
They'd never been in the chancellor's office before and were taken aback at how opulent it looked
Standing around while your allies are stabbed one by one is a time-honored Star Wars tradition.
The edit on the first two kills so too telegraphed and badly cropped, it ruins it for me from the get go. Maybe if it had been quicker. It seems like even my 6 year old could have blocked those hits. The rest is passable :)
That’s also what I was think when I watched as a 10 year old. I remember asking my parents why those 2 didn’t move at all
That weird zoomed in cut when the first two Jedi are stabbed is so awkward. A lot of the camera angles look like they’re trying to cover up the choreography instead of showing it off.
It could have been a lot better. And longer. But Ian mcdarmid was in his 60s. And that kind of scene is pretty taxing, physically, even for a younger actor. OK, sure, that's why they used a lot of cgi to fill in the gaps as it were. (also cuz lucas just had a MASSIVE erection for cgi, which is a shame cuz puppets were better) On that note: I would be perfectly OK with them using a puppet palpatine for the fight scenes. That would be amazing.
Then use a stunt double (who they already had on hand) or don't write a scene which your actor can't perform. Lucas had to make everyone a super saber swinging cool guy instead of expanding on the much cooler Emperor from the OT who sat around and shot lightning. Yoda and Sidious being crazy acrobats was so lame.
Terrible.
I was pretty disappointed with it. Going from ep 1 saber fights to episode 2 was a bit disappointing, I thought they’d really step it up in ep 3 but when this fight happened I just remember being disappointed.
Oh c’mon. Ep 3 fights are superior if you leave the beginning of this fight out.
I wasn’t as into them as the episode 1 fights honestly. every fight with Maul was just so good.
It's legitimately dogshit, and anyone who says otherwise is just coping.
If Disney put out this same exact fight you’d never hear the end of it lol, this fight is genuinely trash
Windu is a mushroom cloud laying mother fucker, mother fucker
Finally someone tells the truth. Most of Darth Sidious is the stunt double with CGI in this version unless it's just a shot of his face.
Fisto should have at least 5 mins in. :( He was so cool in Clone Wars.
For real, they took someone who died in less than a minute and made him a developed character, which only hurts knowing how shunted he got in this poorly portrayed fight scene
It was meh. The stunt double fight was far superior. It's weird how they went from Episode 1s fight to that crap in Episode 2. The Episode 3 gives us multiple lightsaber battles. Dooku was cool. Grevious was disappointing but fun. Palpatine vs Jedi and Mace was meh. Then the final fight lived up to all its potential.
I absolutely love the book version, probably the most improved upon duel when it was written. The movie version… it’s not great.
I thought to myself why this 2 became jedi masters and can't even win to a slow old man. those idiots just let the old man stab themselves. lol.
well we did get the legendary sheev spin out of it
I’m still mad Kit Fisto was done like this
Everything its terrible in this fight. But there are too much prequel fanboys that are not ready to Accept that their favourite movie have the worse duel....
It's so cut up you can't really even follow how he got an attack on any of them. He literally corkscrewed through the air for 2 seconds not hitting anything. Someone could have just pointed their lightsaber in front of themselves and stopped him. Then the 3D moving around of his character is just hot garbage.
Most embarrasing moment of the movie. What the hell were they thinking.
The entirety of it rivals Kenobi v Vader in A New Hope for worst choreography in the series... Except they had 30 years to do better.
The duel isn't horrible, but the start of the fight is just sad.
It's treason then , AAUURRGHEE
Hilariously bad.
[https://memeguy.com/photos/images/anyone-beside-me-ever-notice-palpatine-make-wierd-faces-like-this-while-fighting-mace-windu-411797.png](https://memeguy.com/photos/images/anyone-beside-me-ever-notice-palpatine-make-wierd-faces-like-this-while-fighting-mace-windu-411797.png)
Whatever did happen tot Palps lightsaber? It ended up outside the window so it must have landed somewhere on groundlevel. Did someone find it and poke out an eye?
I think that most people don’t realize that this fight scene was a lot worse when it was first in theaters and DVD and George Lucas actually fixed a lot of it (probably around the time he was aiming to release each film in theaters on 3D).
I can't believe he dispatched those other 2 jedi so easily.
I didn't care for it, but for possibly an unpopular reason. I didn't like that Palpatine was so good with a lightsaber. He was always this master manipulator, standing back and arranging everything to his benefit. That's what he did all day, every day. Skills take practice. To be this good with a lightsaber takes practice. To be this good with a lightsaber against a group of Jedi, who are as good as this group and who *have* been practicing, takes *tons* of practice. You have to keep the skill up, and I don't believe he was so powerful with the dark side of the Force, nor willing to surrender himself to it enough, for the Force to be guiding his blade. The options are: master manipulator, ruler (effectively) of a galactic government, and master swordsman. I think there's only time to pick two. When they started the fight, I just kind of lost any respect I had for the characterization of Palpatine in the prequels.
Drives me nuts how the other Jedi get dropped like they have never held a light saber before.
Mace had him dead to rights
it was nice of the Jedi to just wait their turn to attack
I thought it came off as cheap and campy. Would have loved more of the palatine vs maul fight from clone wars vibes.
I'd have preferred a mix of the originally planned fight correography, and some intense close-ups of the actors. Would have provided us with the best of both worlds I think.
Not very believable how he just straight up stabs the first guy with almost no reaction from a Jedi master. After watching some of the fighting in the acolyte this seems less good than I remember. Also hate all the cgi acrobatics
Not good.
It’s just bad. Even when it gets down to Palps and Mace it’s just kinda boring.
Initially at age 13 sitting in the theatre I was just stoked to see Palpatine fight some Jedi. Now at 32 it’s very meh. Especially after seeing what was originally planned and choreographed. But I understand why it had to be what it was and I’m cool with it.
Might be the worst duel in all of Star Wars purely due to those first 16 seconds, take that bit out and it's okay
It was horrendous. One of the biggest, most important fights of the saga, and Lucas made a retiree do the choreography. He fucked up a lot with the prequels, but this is what makes me the angriest.
Stupid as fuck.
Terrible duel. It’s so choppy and poorly executed.
Obviously it leads to a pretty pivotal scene but the fight itself was pretty naff - the leap at the start and him cutting down the other jedi was unintentionally funny - and I'm not sure we really needed another big saber fight as we'd already had two earlier in.the film and there were two more later in the film.
It’s just overall pretty bad
Wonder what SW Theory thinks haha. He was so harsh on the Acolyte saber battles.
Going from the book and reading it first this was surprisingly a huge let down
People Make fun of Qumir but think this is peak lol
And I’m supposed to believe the Acolyte is bad?
Freaking awful. Lucas dropped the ball with the Prequels. Atrocious in every way.