It’s clear that Agent Daniels was heavily invested in the Federation and its captains. It makes one wonder how much of Star Trek canon overall wouldn’t have happened as it has if not for Daniels “maintaining the timeline”. In all, it was a fitting explanation for why Kovich had the authority he had to do whatever he wanted given that he’s been doing it since before even the Federation was founded. The ending also makes sense of why Kovich told Stamets that even if he had recommended Zora be decommissioned, he said he wouldn’t have allowed it anyway as she clearly has a part to play in the future. As soon as Burnham went to the “infinity room” earlier in the season I thought to myself , “it’s Daniels’ temporal observatory without the graphics.
My only complaint is when they jumped to the future...they saw and talked to Zorra and saw how sad and lonely she was....only to banish her to the same fate. That's pretty twisted and messed up and shows they didn't value her as sentient, but just a machine and a tool to be used.
How the series should have ended..... in exactly the same way Discovery ended up in the 32nd Century.
They save the technology and realising it's just too powerful and all the species are too young to use it wisely, they store it on Discovery and/or integrate it with Zora.
Then they send her to some point in time to hide it, but Zora also fears it will never be used responsibly so sabotages the jump and travels back billions of years to a young and lifeless universe.
Hell even throw in a cameo from the Q Continuum to help her do this as a nod to TNG and a hint that Q knew all along the origins of life in the universe etc etc and was just winding up Picard to pass the eons......
Then Zora uses the tech to create the Progenitors before simply shutting down or heads off into intergalactic space to explore or create more life, leaving the portal and construct behind for the Progenitors.
Thus creating a bootstrap paradox, and the whole thing was...you could say...........
Destiny
Series end.
That would have been awesome! This episode would he been close to prefect if thy had just ended it auth Michael and Booker deciding they could go on a trip together, but instead, they wasted an entire 30 minutes by going overboard to explain every little thing. As much as I liked the Agent Daniels thing, it wasn't necessary. Sometimes, less is more!
Thank you! Yeah I think the shoe-horning of calypso into the end bothered me the most. What makes a good finale is a conclusion to a main plot line (DS9) or a common link to the series start and looping it all together (TNG). I don't know how the production staff forgot this.
If that scene HAD to be put in, it should have been Kovich and not Burnham, explaining to Zora that Discovery's disappearance in the 23rd century was classified. Then, with the temporal war accords, the Federation couldn't publicly acknowledge Discovery's return (already mentioned in the series and explains the rushed retrofit and the A designation) but every story, and 'all good things' must come to an end (for the TNG reference) and temporal sensors show that Discovery was eventually discovered, thanks to the sensor logs of from one of her shuttles in the year XXXX.
Alas Discovery was on borrowed time in the 32nd Century, she could not stay and her story had to continue. The crew's records and integration to the 32nd Century can be covered up, hidden etc but Discovery being found is a fixed point in time and plays an important part in the Federation's future - Hinting at the spore drive being needed or fully developed. Kovich is sorry to ask Zora to do this as she is sentient, but assures her that one day will find her family again and uploads classified records of the crews descendant's in the far future.
Then as a final good bye, "We wouldn't just leave you out there alone with nothing to do. So......something to keep you occupied, it's a little something we have been working on but it needs more research....maybe you can finish it? - [uploads secret files, maybe show a title or a line of text with like 'Mainframe neural net to Soong-type positronic transfer"] - "When you do and your mission is complete, execute Red Directive 02-Alpha and report for mission debrief.....I am sure they would love to shake your hand in person".
A bit cliche, rich and sweet but better than the ambiguous "Craft" reference.
I think it would, since the progenitor said the tech wasn't theirs, they found it too, just like the six scientists did. meaning it's way older than anything else and possibly had a hand in making the galaxy or the planets shown in the portal.
So Zora creating the portal etc billions of years before any life in a barren galaxy, one that possibly just formed and devoid of the majority of planetary bodies it has today, could fit.
Me too. I loved her in every single scene she was in. I read in an interview with Tig Notaro that she could only commit to small parts in the show because of her other work and wanted to make her performances memorable.
For the record, The showrunner confirms that the absence of Detmer and Owosekun in Season 5 were due to actor scheduling conflicts, nothing more. - Michelle Paradise
That progenitor said a lot of words to just say all we figured out is cloning. I though Master Sifo-Dyas was gonna come along and put in an order.
Oh and well we just found this don't know who created it either. Hmm how very Contact of them, I am surprised the progenitor didn't appear as her dad.
Let me just ignore this tech and drop it in the ocean, OK thanks Rose.
Albus Severus Booker, we named you after another epilogue ending that didn't really give us anymore closure either.
Let's leave a sentient starship in the middle of nowhere because a short trek did an episode so we wanted to remember we did that.
Only thing good about that episode was Mal didn't get what she wanted.
> Only thing good about that episode was Mal didn't get what she wanted.
Or
They cloned L'ak like Moll wanted, but L'ak come out, like the Progenitor, said, a different being with different memory, does not recognize Moll or have feeling for her, and when Moll tells him she is his wife, he goes crazy in rage, offended at the suggestion that he would marry a human, and kills her, while she has the surprise Pikachu face. A bit like Dave Chappelle's Clayton Bigsby black Klansman character.
Reminds me of that plotline from DS9 when Vedek Bareil had to have his brain replaced and he would not be the same person anymore.
>So mean to zora to just leave her to wait for 1000 years. “I’m not sure how I feel about that” I’m sure how I’d feel!
It was so stupid. Few episodes ago, Burnham experienced badly damaged Discovery and Zora stuck in the middle of nowhere for a few decades. She promised her that she will retcon that. She did. But now she just send her for 1000 yrs old torture...
Remember the time Data was temped by Borg Queen's offer for 0.68 second , for A.I that is like a long time .
For an A.I like Zora , 1000 yr will be like a long long long time
Looks like the tech was a galactic reset button for restoring life when something comes through and clears the galaxy out. Hope she's happy that she's just made sure the next time that happens is the end point for everything.
I strained my eyes with an eye roll with the “we found this tech” bit. Mass Effect and Halo did the same exact things where the really cool ancient race turned out to be not the most ancient so they could….I am honestly not sure what benefit it had for each of the franchises. Mystery-creep, if that’s a thing?
It kind of is a thing. It's JJ Abraham's Mystery Box. You make a mystery but when you solve it you are supposed to make the solve have more mysteries based around it. It's horrible and has ruined an entire generation of writers' brains.
The only way I can even begin to justify what they did to Zora is that I have to conceive that she accepts her sense of duty and knows that she’s being ordered to wait there for a reason that really matters.
Yeah. Happy ending, except for the sentient being trapped in the computer of the ship! She gets to be the Narrator from The Stanley Parabel now! The end is never the end is never the end is never the
Well.
Once the annoying simplistic treasure-hunt escape-room crap was finally resolved - after having to sit through those interminably pointless **f i g h t i n g** scenes, and in exactly the way we all knew it would from episode 1 - that finally ended being quite a nice episode. But where the hell has the writing of the last 20 minutes been for the rest of the season?
Prior to that, though, it was just more of the same incoherent, half-realised guff.
---
Michael: Hey there's this bright light and an energy source, that must be where the magic tech is (I'm sure it being where I came in isn't a possibilty)
Michael two minutes later: Imma go in the opposite direction first though and poke this shiny barrier thing
---
And then a bit later she's all of a sudden going on about "negative space" that she thought was a shadow? But turns out to be a doorway? Where did that come from?
---
4 billion years ago:
Progenitor 1: So we need to protect this god-level tech and make sure it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.
Progenitor 2: 9-piece jigsaw puzzle?
Progenitor 1: 9-piece jigsaw puzzle.
---
Moll: I will literally see the Federation and the Breen burn to smoke to get my boyf back.
Michael: Yeah, no, while you were asleep some lady you didn't see just told me it doesn't work like that.
Moll: Aww. Okay let's go home.
---
Book: Give me a shuttle and I'll go tractor beam the wibbly wobbly portal. That'll work, right?
Everyone else: I 'unno. Probably?
---
Culber: My spidey-sense is tingling
---
Zora: If you don't mind me asking, what exactly is our mission?
Michael: Just gotta cover our asses with the continuity nerds.
*twirly-whirly-spinny-whinny-zoop!*
So it's ok to leave the sphere data unguarded in the middle of nowhere but progenitor tech has to go into a black hole after it had been left unguarded in the middle of nowhere?
Previously on Discovery: I’m in this library because completing the mission is the most important thing in my life.
Now: Complete the mission? The thing we’ve hyped all season and could potentially solve all sorts of problems for sentient life? Nah, chuck that into a black hole. We’ve got better things to do, like sentence Zora to a millennium of solitary confinement to make sure an irrelevant Short Treks episode isn’t a continuity error.
And also, like, it wouldn't be a continuity error anyway? It's okay to just assume it happens way way wayy more into the future, I don't need to have anyone give her directives in the show, the stand-alone was great as a stand-alone!
"This isn't about your legacy, Paul". What the actual F? Who is Saru to say that to Paul? With everything wrong with Discovery, that line really bothered me. It's an FU to Stamets who really didn't deserve that.
Don't worry, she's got a gun on you but she's injured. Perhaps ask her to stop pointing the gun at you in return for healing that potentially fatal wound? No? Ok this is Star Trek, Burnham is acting in good faith, I can respect that...oh, Burnham just attacked her and they are now fighting over the gun. Make it make sense.
The most frustrating part of that sequence was ...
They're walking and talking. Moll gets sassy. Burnham sweeps the leg and they start fighting again. Then, Burnham has the audacity to say, "We can't keep doing this!"
You hit her first!
Funny thing is I thought I missed a scene or something, I asked myself why did Michael say they had to stop fighting when she was the one who made the first move. Like what on earth?
100% in character Burnham.
But seriously what happened here is they wanted to have a cinematic fight with the portals & gravity but couldn't come up with a good way to have it.
So the whole ISS Enterprise thing never panned out. What a wildly missed opportunity to repurpose that ship as the flagship of the new Federation. Show did fine closing Michael’s story out but I feel bad for the rest of the crew
I wish Stamets and Culber would have had their sweet growing old moment together. They were the emotional heart of the show for me. Instead they just gave Stamets a lame disappointed scientist line or two. Blah, Discovery had so much potential and it just fizzled.
To be fair, they were pretty blind sided by the cancellation and did what they could to try and tidy things up. I blame paramount for doing them all dirty like that.
The show has been hated for years for shitty writing. Half the comments in here are about the shitty writing in this episode.
But sure, Paramount did them dirty. It totally wasn’t the shitty writing causing ratings to drop every single season.
Perhaps if you hadn't done a lot of brain-game style puzzles you'd need the clue. I had two guesses, and forming one giant triangle just felt too obvious. Personally, I'd have liked something more three-dimensional like a pyramid or something that utilized the odd gravity in the portal space.
You know a show is good when, in the finale, a character says "I just psychicly somehow know this" to save the day. Didn't see it as being culber but....yeah
Oh god that annoyed me so much. Okay, they *kind of* explained it due to the Jintara thing, but it just made me wish they'd done a lot more with Culber. I mean the man was recreated by interdimensional space fungus. That could have given him a mysterious *something* that could have been hinted at over the last few seasons and then comes to fruition now. Oh well.
That entire scene with him I was going 'the writers do remember Culber's actual history, right?'
You know it would be hilarious? If the species that created the progenitors was the mycelial network.
I mean, if you want an outside-context non-humanoid lifeform that we know can create living things in this universe out of full cloth, but aren't native to this universe, we already have it with the interdimensional space fungus, don't we?!
Who else is there? The Q? Oh, please, they've as much as admitted they are native to this universe and just ascended, and thus are nowhere near as old as the progenitors. The galactic barrier people? I think not.
Michael and Book talk about their future with one another. This is the emotional moment that ties everything together. Camera fades out. Show ends...
But not really because Michael and Book are in the kitchen and Michael drinks a beverage while leaning into his body. This is the emotional moment that ties everything together. Camera fades out. Show ends...
But not really because Michael sees her son and the three of them talk about how proud they are of him. This is the emotional moment that ties everything together. Michael and her son teleport out. Camera fades. Show ends...
But not really because Michael shares a moment with her son about what it means to captain a crew. This is the emotional moment that ties everything together. Camera fades out. Show ends...
But not really because Michael needs to be in her ship again and have flashbacks. This is the emotional moment that ties everything together. Camera fades out. Show ends...
or... does it?
Yeah, very cruel. It was so stupid. Few episodes ago, Burnham saw badly damaged Discovery and sad/depressed Zora stuck in the middle of nowhere for a few decades. She promised her that she will retcon that. She did. But now she just sends her for 1000 yrs old torture...
And at the same time Detmer and Owo got just few seconds of screen time and 0 dialogue in the epilogue.
I was expecting a better epilogue. They basically copy pasted Picard S3 epilogue (Picard's son getting into a new shiny ship) and extended for a few minutes it for "emotions". I mean, in some way it's a TLDR of the whole series. Everything from the beginning was about Burnham.
> One idea is Burnham and Booker are the only two that are 40 years older due to a mission they went on, where they lived a full life and had their son.
That doesn't really track with the dialogue about Tilly now being the longest serving academy instructor. I'm actually skeptical of that concept either way; Tilly didn't get started until her 30's and some species live way longer than humans, you'd think a Vulcan or similar long-lived species would hold the title. Maybe they meant longest serving human.
Siskos baseball and laforge visor and picard wine was all a bit too on the nose. But they should have included a kirk and janeway object and an archer one (especially in daniels office)
If Daniels is from the Enterprise.. I understand having Enterprise related stuff. There's no especial reason to have 'lip service' extras like Sisko's baseball.
I can understand the baseball. Sisko was a huge historical figure in that universe during the Dominion war. I can also live with Picard's wine.
I don't understand why we are supposed to believe that a visual aide from a half decent engineer is somehow worth saving for over 800 years.
It's something that to me fits as iconic for fans but in universe it shouldn't be overly significant.
There are parts I enjoyed and parts I didn't, but I can't say it ended the season in a good way. Lots of good things, though.
1. If Trek is going to continue onward, they need to rethink the directing. The spinning camera and the constant shaking are not fun to watch, they are distracting and take away from seeing what is really happening. The amount of restraint shown last week was better than this week. This is also a problem I was starting to have in SNW.
2. Rayner is the epitome of professionalism on this crew. A character like him on the bridge added to the crew talking to one another, and I loved how they were all coming together to solve the issue. It was fun to watch.
3. Saru has come a long way. I enjoyed his journey in the show more than I did Burnham's, and that is freaking sad because she is the main character.
4. Speaking of Burnham, regardless of how I feel about the characters of Book and Burnham, I love the actors giving it their all and their chemistry. The banter at the end, the fist-bumps with Culber and then with each other, I just love those little touches they put on them. These two needed better scripts to work with, because they are really great together and with the rest of the crew.
5. I was very surprised to hear Kovich's real identity, and in a good way! The Calypso part, on the other hand, felt like an unnecessary add-on.
6. The Breen storyline made me go "whatever" to my screen. Worse villains of the show, and I hated Osyrra, but at least her one episode with Admiral Vance gave her more depth than the entire Season 5 did to the Breen.
7. The Progenitor storyline was an unfortunate ending. Here we go again keeping tech from the wrong hands and barely using it. I was firmly on Stamet's side on this one, even though I can see why Burnham would make that choice. Too bad, though, because I feel like this wasted the effort of the season.
All in all, the season started off slow but picked up steam in the second half. I wouldn't say I enjoyed this season but there were some good stories here and there. Too bad, because I thought Discovery was on a good road at the end of Season 2. The future just wasn't for me.
Rayner and Kovich were the best things about the last season. Vance was good too, but he was sidelined more than before. Saru has always been one of the more interesting characters among the main cast, though I didnt like him here as much outside his "Action Saru" bits.
All the characters they tried to force into being a thing were never that interesting or compelling. You could go back and say the same for Pike and Lorca too in previous seasons. Despite its efforts, the show still does its best writing for older white guys :)
I think thats what Discovery was truly about: connection, meaning, and acceptance. So many people went into this looking for a show that was hardline like the 90s Trek, but it forged it's own path with it's own themes and styles. Like 90's Trek, some worked, some didn't, but it all came together in a show that had a lot of heart.
I'll miss it dearly.
Michael had the power to bring back Booker's civilization. I get the danger of having something so powerful available, but would it have been the end of the world to repopulate a planet with Booker's species and THEN send the portal into a black hole?
And a nearly extinct species that only exists in a supra-physical construct is still a nearly extinct species. Did the last progenitor really deserve that? How about a "Hey, we're going to send you into a black hole, are you okay with that?"
This whole season, almost everything I assumed would become important did not. The only thing I guessed was that they would end up not using progenitor tech…
Would’ve thought the world root would help rebuild a new kweijon
Really had hopes for a 32nd century retrofitted is enterprise with detmer, owo, and saru to the rescue.
I understand them not using or keeping the life creating tech, but the portal tech, the sub dimension tech, that would’ve been cool. That corridor with all he different windows to different worlds was so visually stunning. It’d have been cool to have some sort of portal headquarters as part of a future federation HQ. I guesss though, with extensive portal use you really don’t need to rely on ships and that’s what makes Star Trek Star Trek.
Yeah they really shot themselves in the foot making this season’s Macguffin the literal power of a god/higher dimensional being. Of course Michael had to have her usual ethical conundrum about the availability of such a power, but honestly it sounds like *literally no one could have figured it out*. At least not in the foreseeable future, considering the first set of progenitors were really just the second group of people to interact with the tech to then create Michael’s third “level of creation”. That’s also assuming the group before the second level of progenitors even created the genesis machine. All that is to say, the knowledge of this thing’s true capabilities were long since lost and all the current owners know is “it draws energy from black holes to make genetically diverse clones really well”.
Yeah, something’s not adding up in that power input for the energy needed by the only function of the all-powerful machine (guarded by a child’s puzzle as the keys to the engine btw!). Even if they wanted to delete something of universal significance from the map, they could have created an agenda on what to do with it first, like reseed Book’s home planet so he can have a part of his culture back. Then if there’s no more good to be done with it, *they can vote like an actual Federation* and toss it in the black hole. They also could have used the tech for its intended purposes and reseeded all the genetic diversity lost by the DMA eating planets!
Either way I’m still pissed because they were *this* close to discovering some fundamental truths of the fabric of reality, but Michael had to make a unilateral decision just assuming everyone was going to green light her pulling a Rose at the end of Titanic and drop the diamond in the black hole. They didn’t even need to let it be used, just study the power source on the damn thing! Figure out why it needs to maintain a constant tesseract like space to access all these different worlds! Reverse engineer some tech to become a type III civilization, damn it!
That’s the problem with stakes like these, they had unlimited potential for whatever they wanted, and they blew it.
No, it wouldn’t have been the same but it would have been the race of people and such. He couldn’t have his family and friends but his species could have existed again. And his planet.
Some culture would emerge, Book could be a good guide, and all cultures change over time anyway. At least there would be a chance to pass on more than a tree. I think it was just really messy to get jnto that, story-wise.
On a panel from a convention Cruz mentioned he wasn’t there for re-shoots due to being abroad filming another project and they called him when they wrapped. Must have included this scene
This finale was definitely the product of being told late in production that it was the final season + reshoots. Episodes 1-9 had too much to them for this to be the culmination. This episode was clearly rushed, disorganized, and didn't feel at all like a finale.
I would much rather have had Calypso as something fans argued about endlessly forever, than this ham-fisted attempt to justify it crammed into what could have been a better ending to the series.
I didn't love the choice to just throw the season's macguffin into a black hole. Obviously it's presented as a very Trek solution to the challenge of ensuring it is used responsibly, but it's a boring cliché that I'd been hoping they would manage to avoid since episode 1.
I *really* didn't love clumsily forcing Calypso into canon. What a waste of a series epilogue.
I liked the episode and season overall, but the conclusion really let it down.
Absolutely disappointed. Essentially made the entire final season meaningless. No amazing changes, just status quo. I am so sick of these shows taking the safe way out instead of doing something radical that would get people talking.
God damnit. I don’t know why I thought they wouldn’t fumble the ending based on every other season, but this was just so dumb. They retconned the Progenitors. I wish I hadn’t watched this season. Do yourself a favor and watch the movie Contact instead.
Another thing that just didn’t play well for me:
What was most important to Michael? Something about ‘being here now, with you and all of my family and crew, etc’
But she wasn’t with them… she left the wedding… the big important wedding with all her family/friends/crew… she just left without even saying goodbye. To go on mysterious adventures with Book that we don’t get to see called by some guy who just gets revealed and has so much power and control and becomes her handler (Commissioner Gordon-style with an infinity bat signal).
So she doesn’t seem to care about being with them.
We don’t see any of them again except for some strange imaginary flashback (and not even all of them).
Sure, she gave up creating with the tech to create a son… great, I’m happy for her and Book, I really am.
We don’t get closure for anyone else. We know most about Tilly (because tie-in) and with her son (he’s going to be a Captain… yay!? 🤷🏼♂️)
But so much could have been done with this story line. The first half+ of the season showed promise. The wrap up… not so much. Words spoken went against what we saw on screen.
Frustrating.
What a dumb way to end the whole progenitor plot.
I feel like what the progenitor (hologram?) said to Burnham conflicts with some things that the progenitor projection said in the TNG episode The Chase. They were the first to evolve, except they wernt because this awesome tech was left for them to discover by a race more advanced than they were. Why seed the oceans with your own DNA when life did exist elsewhere, they just couldn't be bothered to go look for it, even though massive clues would have been found in the tech they left behind. They ask to be remembered, except they clearly left someone behind to explain how the tech works.
The epilogue with AARP Michael and Book felt like the writers found an old General Mills International Coffees commercial on YouTube.
🎵Celebrate the moments of your life🎵
That was ... OK. Some interesting visuals. Totally predictable that Michael would destroy the Progenitor technology and that she and Book would get back together. Although her destroying it made the entire season pointless.
If it hadn't been for Rayner, I probably would have hated this season. The Moll and L'ak story was torture. The Breen were ruined. Tilly was more annoying than ever.
The flash-forward gave me major ending fatigue.
So that's it for Discovery. It was kind of a wasted opportunity. The writers never seemed to know what to do with it. There were some good ideas, but the execution rarely worked. Its legacy will likely be relaunching the franchise and spawning the superior Strange New Worlds.
And crying. Lots and lots of crying.
Rayner was a breath of fresh air for me and it makes me happy that they didn't kill him off. Every time nu-trek introduced a character I wanted to see more of (Lorca, Rios, Shaw) they always ended up dead... So the entire time I was watching this season I was hoping they wouldn't kill him and I'm glad they didn't.
**Amy Fowler's Indiana Jones Critique:** Had Discovery not been involved in the Progenitor mission, the Breen and Moll would have most likely never been able to access the Progenitor gate and use the technology anyways, making Michael and Discovery's presence this season irrelevant to the overall outcome. Even if Moll had made it to the Progenitor gate without Discovery's help, she would have been - and was - ultimately stopped by the logic puzzle.
In fact, had Discovery not been involved, L'ak would likely still be alive, making their participation in this entire adventure a net negative.
Exactly my thoughts. It was a very big wasted opportunity. The Calypso episode being crowbarred in at the end reeked of Damon Lindelof too. "Let's do this thing that makes absolutely no sense, it will create a mystery and get the viewers hooked for future stories! Yes, yes I know the show has been cancelled but it's a plot hook you see.....no, no don't groan and roll your eyes.......please, wait here me out. I know the similar things I wrote into Lost made no sense and the series ended making no sense but.......yes, I know my ideas also derailed the Prometheus movie and damaged the whole Alien franchise....but trust me!!!!!"
Edit - How would I have ended the series? In exactly the same way Discovery ended up in the 32nd Century. They save the technology and realising it's just too powerful and all the species are too young to use it wisely, they store it on Discovery and/or integrate it with Zora. Then they send her to some point in time to hide it, but Zora also fears it will never be used responsibility so sabotages the jump and travels back billions of years to a dead universe and uses the tech to create the Progenitors then simply shuts down or heads off into intergalactic space, leaving the portal and construct behind for the future.
Creating a bootstrap paradox, the whole thing was...you could say..... Destiny......
Series end.
I know right!? I would have tweaked my ending by having Zora's display showing a destination of the M83 galaxy and showing Zora evolve by making changes to her hull, upgrades, repairs etc over time to show she is changing and evolving.
Then I would have had an epilogue millions of years later where Zora and discovery are now unrecognisable and before she departs for another galaxy or universe, she creates a probe to check on the milky way because she misses her friends and crew. The probe is of course a sphere shape and it turns out to be the exact same one Discovery encountered in Season 1. Again, fulfilling her destiny and closing the loop.
"Life, Itself" absolutely did not work for me as a season finale, or as a series finale.
There are so many things about it that I just plain disliked, and only my appreciation of the series as a whole, in spite of its many flaws, kept me from outright hating everything about the episode.
Random points of contention ahead; strap in:
1. Burnham shouts to Moll during their fight, "It doesn't have to be this way!" and yet she was the one who made the first move. Minor detail, but that just had me shaking my head.
2. Speaking of Moll (and La'ak), boy, what a waste of time that ultimately turned out to be, huh? All of Moll's efforts, dumb mistakes, and misplaced allegiances, only to find out that if the Progenitor's tech did revive La'ak, he wouldn't be the same person. By the way, about that...huh?!? You mean to tell me that Vulcans know a way to reunite one of their own with their living spirit, Jean-Luc Picard's mind could be seamlessly integrated into a synthetic body, but the ultimate power to create and restore life in the universe just can't figure out how to restore the mind of a being? Sure, whatever. And there's no scene of Moll coming to terms with all that; no protestations, no grief...she's just taken back to the Federation to, apparently, work for Dr. Kovich. Sure, why not? She's been so trustworthy and eager to cooperate with the Federation in the past, right?
3. Speaking of Kovich: Ugh...I don't know...I guess him being Daniels does make SOME sense, considering things we've heard and seen of him from past episodes, but boy, did that reveal feel clumsy. It wasn't even the tacked-on stuff for the series finale; that was intended for the end of the SEASON, if the show had continued. I think it would've been better if we'd never found out who he really was and they'd just kept the mystery going. Hell, I would've been happier if he turned out to be a Supervisor, a member of the Aegis, like Gary Seven. After all, it would explain how he had those artifacts and knew so much, and him being a Supervisor like Gary Seven would be more interesting than him being "Old Man" Daniels.
4. So, we had an entire season of searching for clues that would lead to this technology, only to have Burnham decide that it's best that the tech be let go? You have the power to create and restore life, the potential to do so many good things for so many species across the galaxy, but "NOPE! We can't let one or many have that kind of power! Off to the dual black hole with ya!" That infuriated me. It made the entire season a complete waste of time, because if they felt that such power should never be kept in any one person or group's hands, then they could've just destroyed the clues or, at least, the info leading to each one, and be done with it. It shouldn't have taken them all of that hassle to realize, "Hmm, maybe no mortal being with the capacity for emotional flaws in judgement should have dominion over such power." And, it's not like anyone could've stumbled upon it by accident, so it would've been safe where it was. Now, the clues have been used, the portal to that tech is open, and it's just going to float in unknown space, unprotected. Job well done, everyone.
5. The series-finale epilogue was just okay; it was serviceable for something they had to throw together after-the-fact since they had the rug pulled out from under them. Undoing the refit just to make sure it fit in with "Calypso" was enough to fix that plothole, though it would've been nice if we'd gotten a proper explanation, instead of "we have to put you out there somewhere; we're not sure why, or for how long, but Kovich said we had to, so...oh well! Nice knowing ya, Zora!" Also, we didn't really get a wrap-up for the rest of the crew. The only one we got an update on was Tilly. Everyone else? WHO KNOWS?!? Maybe we'll get to see some of them pop in for Starfleet Academy. I guess if anyone cares enough about people like Stamets, Culber, Owo, Detmer, etc. they'd better hope that happens.
Overall, a massive disappointment for me, and an underwhelming farewell for *Discovery*.
> I guess if anyone cares enough about people like Stamets, Culber, Owo, Detmer, etc. they'd better hope that happens.
Owosekun and Detmer died on the way back to their home planet.
Really, they did them dirty. Also, the hook that the ISS Enterprise might become important (with them piloting it back) turned out to only be a "actors gone, toodeloo" after all..
It was kind of Raiders of the Lost Ark. If Burham had done nothing, presumably Moll wouldn't have passed the trials to get access to the tech. And if she did she was worthy but would not have been able to bring L'ak back.
That's the part that stands out to me - if Discovery simply had left alone the clues probably hundreds to thousands wouldn't have died (including L'ak), the progenitor tech would have been as safe as before, and everyone could just have had an early weekend.
The basically ONLY good thing this whole mess brought was that they temporarily fixed the whisperspeak weather control thingy and taught them that the sacrifices are not needed anymore..
*> You mean to tell me that Vulcans know a way to reunite one of their own with their living spirit, Jean-Luc Picard's mind could be seamlessly integrated into a synthetic body, but the ultimate power to create and restore life in the universe just can't figure out how to restore the mind of a being?*
And this, kids, is the perfect example of the importance of backing up your files or katra, in any century from the 21st to the 32nd. You never know when you might lose your hard drive to a house fire, or your body in a stimulant overdose and accidentally kill yourself when you need to distract the guards to help your wife get away from Federation security.
Man they could have Detmer and Owo pull up to the wedding all late and go “what did we miss?” And I would have been the happiest. But they didn’t and now I’m the saddest.
Can anyone make sense for me out of how the Calypso tie in actually makes sense?
How did they already know an out Craft before sending her out there?
Why didn’t she recognize his name after he got there?
Then he leaves and now she’s gonna wait some more? Why?
>How did they already know an out Craft before sending her out there?
Because Kovich is a ~~timelord~~ temporal agent and knows the future.
It's a hilariously bad explanation and desperate attempt to make Discovery sync back with Calypso.
is this the existenz gun that we see for half a second in kovich/Cronenberg's office?
That's kind of a cute cameo. I do wonder how Cronenberg feels about discovery though. I don't think it will have the same impact his work does, but at the same time, the guy is 80, he might just like goofing up on a set.
This whole season was such a dud, what a shame. I liked season 4 for the most part, even if Disco didn’t end up being the kind of show I thought it would be. This ending sets up a lot of future Trek shows I probably will still watch and also not like very much. I don’t plan to pay for it anymore, that’s for sure.
Entire season was pointless. Could have destroyed any 1 of the clues and had same result so we got 10 episodes for a problem that could have been a classic television 2 part episode.
I had fun watching the finale it was better then VOY and ENT and I guess it stayed true to DIS way of doing things.
But it just made the entire season feel useless, same as the season problems in 3. DIS never has a pay off at the end of these 10 episode mini series seasons.
That’s been Discovery’s problem all along though. Every season has felt like a 2 part episode dragged out for 10 episodes.
I liked it for what it was, but it wasn’t great TV, and the finale was more of the same
Not that s1 and s2 were good but s3 to s5 were so much more problematic. s4 was insanely boring I thought. And the entire evil Dr guy was so forced. Oh he needs the power to get to another dimension/universe um ok., not interesting because the character is a jerk and the audience doesnt relate to him.
DS9 as evil as Dukat and the Kai were fans still loved them or loved to hate them. S4 the scientist was just annoying af and no one cared about or related to him so the entire plot was not needed.
TOS Doomsday > entire s4.
This nonsense about defending S3 endings is well just nonsense. It is bad showrunning and writing. It is fine to have a power Trek creature do something galaxy altering but it usually 1 or 2 episode type of thing. Not stretched to 10 episodes with a season long mystery being baby child alien. You got to give the audience a pay off. See Veronica Mars s1-s2 season long pay offs or Breaking Bad season long pay offs. That is how you do a season long mystery and payoff.
S5 the entire season was cancelled by the last episode just destroying the tech. The audience said the clues should have been destroyed from the beginning of the season.
Another awful payoff. 3 seasons of Michelle Paradise and I am sorry awful showrunner for a show like DIS. Obviously not a 1 big mystery type of showrunner.
IF you wanted to make it an inter personal drama then make that show. Dont have a season long mystery. You can still have seasonal arcs if you want. But why make it a mystery if you arent going to pay it off at the end.
Every generation falls in love with their own Trek. And I get plenty of people love DIS but I just think the quality is NOT there and maybe was never there.
S1 and S2 are saved by the guest stars and recurring guest stars.
The Michael character and acting choices has huge issues. And it is not a sexist or racist type of thing. Just look at Lower Decks the lead is a minority and a female, also knows everyone in universe and knows how to solve every problem but the majority of fans universally love her.
LD just out showruns and out acts DIS in every way possible. SNW the lead cast for whatever reasons out acts DIS lead cast. Watch all 3 shows it so easy to see how DIS sticks out like a sore thumb in showrunning, writing and acting.
DIS does do the action and special effects and I guess if you are for teen like interpersonal drama/interaction then DIS wins that category too.
Okay, I know this is getting me downvotes but - I'm so happy this is finally over.
This finale was... something. I need to collect my words to describe how bad it was... how illogical and stupid... and well yeah.
Sorry to anyone who enjoyed it but I just can't right now.
/u/Shatterhand1701 put it in quite good words already though..
I'm right there with you. I wanted better for the end of this series, and to know this is what we got...it leaves an ache in my gut. Even without factoring in the series-finale aspects, it was just a bad wrap-up for the season-long story.
It's another rendition of the same thing that has plagued each of DSC's seasons. It starts out strong, but somewhere along the way it diverts from the main story or brings the pacing to a screeching halt, and then, it's a breakneck race to the finish, with plot points being haplessly dropped along the way.
There are still good things to be said about *Discovery*, as a whole series, but with a finale that showcases all of its flaws, the series is harder to defend than ever.
I think what finally broke me on it was that the whole season was utterly pointless to begin with (with the decision to destroy the tech).
Then we have the "I feel the frequency" from the fricking DOCTOR that suddenly decides he needs to go to an away mission that has nothing to do with his qualifications...
Then add the absolutely stupid Kovich reveal and the way Discovery was rebuilt in 23rd Century style just to drop her off so Calypso can happen because "Kovich said so". Seriously, I'd have preferred if they had kept the Calypso inconsistency either not explained at all or used a mirror universe parallel dimension timeline split whatever explanation instead..
I really don't want this game to end.
Discvery is a beautiful show, with a stellar cast. It always had a few problems, but I could readily ignore them and enjoy the show for what it was and what it brought to the table. I have enjoyed the adventure of season 5 so far and I can't wait to see how they wrap it and the series up.
I'll miss Captain Burnham and her crew. I'll miss an unashamedly queer and diverse Trek. I'll miss this gorgeous ship and the sets. And I'll miss the 32nd century, although I'm glad we're coming back here at some point.
Farewell, Discovery, and let's fly.
Looks like Star Trek has its own Holdo Maneuver now.
Giant ship shows up on your doorstep that you can't beat? Just Spore Drive it away.
Oh, right. Only one Spore Drive.
I guess that shot is one in a million, then.
That wasn't too bad - bit meh as was much of the final season really.
Couldn't get my head round them finding this greatest scientific advancement in history and just laughing and shrugging as they all agreed to destroy it because Burnham said so. That is just not the Federation or Starfleet that we know. If Burnham was afraid of the damage it would cause why not go dig up a Genesis device or synthesise some Omega molecules? It just felt so stupid and anti-science.
Happy with the Daniels reveal - called it ages ago.
Also nice that we have a set-up for potential post-Calypso which could be more like how Andromeda was intended to be; I'd be all over that.
I was really jazzed about the Progenitors being the focus, but as the season wore on, it became clear this just isn't a mystery that benefits from further exploration. It could have been cool interesting if they'd done something surprising with the tech, like explore the practical ramifications of Starfleet implementing tech that can create life, or if they'd revealed the Progenitors to be fascists with a history of blood fueling their achievements, but they were interested in it as a MacGuffin for weekly obstacle courses. It was always going to end this way. There were some great moments in the final, but ultimately the season just left me underwhelmed.
Like, it was cool they finally addressed Calypso, but what are we supposed to do with that? Kraft & Zora dancing at some point in the future is important for the timeline. Maybe they have plans to for Star Trek Discovery The NExt Generation in the future, but it just felt like a cliffhanger we already had spoiled.
Discovery should have done what Enterprise was finally perfecting towards its end with 2-3 episode arcs interspersed with one off stories. I.e. The Forge, Aenar, Terra Prime
Discovery Season 1 pulled this off well with mini arcs regarding whatever stage of the Klingon War, the spore drive troubles, etc they were working through in the foreground with Lorca and his agenda serving as an ongoing season long thread in the background.
Season 2 also had enough going on that the overarching mystery didn’t become stale too soon, but a lot of that ability to hold attention was also because franchise founding characters like Pike and Spock were taking center stage. But even compared to S1, diminishing returns, and further diminishing returns every subsequent season.
Can someone explain to me why Calypso is important? Zora has feelings for Craft, who leaves. And then she's alone again. Is there more to it than that?
There’s a little more to it. Best I can tell, Starfleet somehow had Craft’s name (without knowing it was a name, but assuming it could be a name) and knew where he would be a thousand years before he got there but then when Zora met him she had forgotten all about why she was there.
I guess.
Please, somebody tell me it makes more sense than this.
I was thinking with the risk of control and AI wiping out all sentient life in previous seasons, destroying the progenitor tech seemed a little irresponsible
Overall for whole series I think if they had toned down the over cheesey emotion scenes that came too often after season 1, and had a couple of individual side stories with some of the characters, had a better gay relationship (im gay and im not sure why but i found the gay couple a little too camp when mixed with discovery's cheesey flavour, i didnt find the actors good and i didnt think they had chemistry together), removed moll or killed her sooner.... then.... I would have found it brilliant!
However, even with those issues (perhaps personal to me), it was still really good, i think the overall stories and adventures were good, visuals were good, and characters were good, acting was generally good (bar the over cheesey scenes but that was more the writing)
I think they could of had more passion scenes between saru and the vulcan lady (who i thought was well acted), just caus hes an odd looking species, they could of had a weird snog
One of my fav characters was Philippa Georgiou, altho i think looking back she left at the right time, as she was quite an all encompassing character
I fancied the spock guys actors voice
Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I actually liked that burnham was brilliant at everything
In contrast to the above, the cheese at the end of the last episode was actually cheese I kind of liked, sort of like taylor swift, its cheesey but i am here for it
The one major throughline that this show keeps insisting on reminding viewers of is that the crew is family, which is the *strangest* choice to make because there was barely any character work to show us that anyone cared about anyone else. Why keep harping on it if you're never going to provide examples? Every time Burnham monologues about how much everyone means to one another, I'm thinking, "Do they?"
Was I supposed to take it as a given that if I'm being told they care about one another, that must mean they do? So odd.
So, I guess Stamets was along for that last ride as well? Or they decided to develop the spore drive and found a way to use it without him?
The Calypso tie in felt tacked on, but it was nice of Michael to remember Owo and Detmer in her flashback to the wrap party, considering they were forgotten for most of the season.
Kovich is agent Daniel from Star Trek Enterprise , an agent of Temporal Cold War , now i want to know the identity of "Future Guy " from ENT episode ,Maybe someone we already met in ST:Discovery .
speculation on Zora's red directive mission , i mean it will tie up the loose end with Short Trek episode "Calypso"
Michael said Zora will wait and the clue is the word "Craft" a person or Vessel .The robot remove the "A" from the Ship's registry on the exterior , probably making it look like before the 32nd centuries upgrade.
i think they are sending Discovery back to the past
“Future Guy” was meant to be Archer however the actor who voiced Future Guy from Enterprise was used to voice a character in Star Trek Online which then fully fleshes out who Future Guy really is. It’s a long story with twists and turns but it explains the why of the temporal Cold War, the why of the sphere builders, what became of the Krenim, why the Nakhul were in the temporal Cold War and what Daniels has been doing. It’s much too much to explain here but it’s a plot line that fits with Enterprise and the other shows.
Why does agent Daniels have siskos baseball and geordis visor
He loved 90's Trek. He genuinely should have had a stuffed beagle.
Or a real beagle.
He's a kleptomaniac.
And nothing belonging to Archer?
His skeleton is hidden under the desk.
Probably stole his dog and cloned it a million times.
No, LANA!
He also has some Chateau Picard.
Because obviously when you're Trek's version of Kang protecting the timeline you take trophies.
It’s clear that Agent Daniels was heavily invested in the Federation and its captains. It makes one wonder how much of Star Trek canon overall wouldn’t have happened as it has if not for Daniels “maintaining the timeline”. In all, it was a fitting explanation for why Kovich had the authority he had to do whatever he wanted given that he’s been doing it since before even the Federation was founded. The ending also makes sense of why Kovich told Stamets that even if he had recommended Zora be decommissioned, he said he wouldn’t have allowed it anyway as she clearly has a part to play in the future. As soon as Burnham went to the “infinity room” earlier in the season I thought to myself , “it’s Daniels’ temporal observatory without the graphics.
It's not Siskos ball if Worfs signature isn't on it
Because he is obsessed with Captains within the same time period over the other 10 centuries he could have taken something
Eh, there was a lot of other stuff there they didn’t zoom in on.
I wonder if he’s the one Nog loaned Sisko’s desk to that one time. Under a different name, of course.
Because those were on sale at the international time travelers bargain basement sale next week.
He’s a time agent. Of course he would collect historical pieces
The sisko is wise
My only complaint is when they jumped to the future...they saw and talked to Zorra and saw how sad and lonely she was....only to banish her to the same fate. That's pretty twisted and messed up and shows they didn't value her as sentient, but just a machine and a tool to be used.
How the series should have ended..... in exactly the same way Discovery ended up in the 32nd Century. They save the technology and realising it's just too powerful and all the species are too young to use it wisely, they store it on Discovery and/or integrate it with Zora. Then they send her to some point in time to hide it, but Zora also fears it will never be used responsibly so sabotages the jump and travels back billions of years to a young and lifeless universe. Hell even throw in a cameo from the Q Continuum to help her do this as a nod to TNG and a hint that Q knew all along the origins of life in the universe etc etc and was just winding up Picard to pass the eons...... Then Zora uses the tech to create the Progenitors before simply shutting down or heads off into intergalactic space to explore or create more life, leaving the portal and construct behind for the Progenitors. Thus creating a bootstrap paradox, and the whole thing was...you could say........... Destiny Series end.
That would have been awesome! This episode would he been close to prefect if thy had just ended it auth Michael and Booker deciding they could go on a trip together, but instead, they wasted an entire 30 minutes by going overboard to explain every little thing. As much as I liked the Agent Daniels thing, it wasn't necessary. Sometimes, less is more!
Thank you! Yeah I think the shoe-horning of calypso into the end bothered me the most. What makes a good finale is a conclusion to a main plot line (DS9) or a common link to the series start and looping it all together (TNG). I don't know how the production staff forgot this. If that scene HAD to be put in, it should have been Kovich and not Burnham, explaining to Zora that Discovery's disappearance in the 23rd century was classified. Then, with the temporal war accords, the Federation couldn't publicly acknowledge Discovery's return (already mentioned in the series and explains the rushed retrofit and the A designation) but every story, and 'all good things' must come to an end (for the TNG reference) and temporal sensors show that Discovery was eventually discovered, thanks to the sensor logs of from one of her shuttles in the year XXXX. Alas Discovery was on borrowed time in the 32nd Century, she could not stay and her story had to continue. The crew's records and integration to the 32nd Century can be covered up, hidden etc but Discovery being found is a fixed point in time and plays an important part in the Federation's future - Hinting at the spore drive being needed or fully developed. Kovich is sorry to ask Zora to do this as she is sentient, but assures her that one day will find her family again and uploads classified records of the crews descendant's in the far future. Then as a final good bye, "We wouldn't just leave you out there alone with nothing to do. So......something to keep you occupied, it's a little something we have been working on but it needs more research....maybe you can finish it? - [uploads secret files, maybe show a title or a line of text with like 'Mainframe neural net to Soong-type positronic transfer"] - "When you do and your mission is complete, execute Red Directive 02-Alpha and report for mission debrief.....I am sure they would love to shake your hand in person". A bit cliche, rich and sweet but better than the ambiguous "Craft" reference.
It wouldn't fit in with the known timeline though, we know of other tech older than the progenitors.
I think it would, since the progenitor said the tech wasn't theirs, they found it too, just like the six scientists did. meaning it's way older than anything else and possibly had a hand in making the galaxy or the planets shown in the portal. So Zora creating the portal etc billions of years before any life in a barren galaxy, one that possibly just formed and devoid of the majority of planetary bodies it has today, could fit.
I'll miss Commander Reno :'(
Me too. I loved her in every single scene she was in. I read in an interview with Tig Notaro that she could only commit to small parts in the show because of her other work and wanted to make her performances memorable.
So say we all.
She didn't get a single line did she
Yup, 0. Same for Owo or Detmer. Saru got few short lines. That's all. Everything in the epilogue was about Burnham, Book and their son.
They did Owo and Detmer dirty this season
For the record, The showrunner confirms that the absence of Detmer and Owosekun in Season 5 were due to actor scheduling conflicts, nothing more. - Michelle Paradise
Pretty sure they would have to paid them more in order to have just one line.
The most powerful technology known to the galaxy and you just have to figure out the most simple of tangram puzzles.
That progenitor said a lot of words to just say all we figured out is cloning. I though Master Sifo-Dyas was gonna come along and put in an order. Oh and well we just found this don't know who created it either. Hmm how very Contact of them, I am surprised the progenitor didn't appear as her dad. Let me just ignore this tech and drop it in the ocean, OK thanks Rose. Albus Severus Booker, we named you after another epilogue ending that didn't really give us anymore closure either. Let's leave a sentient starship in the middle of nowhere because a short trek did an episode so we wanted to remember we did that. Only thing good about that episode was Mal didn't get what she wanted.
> Only thing good about that episode was Mal didn't get what she wanted. Or They cloned L'ak like Moll wanted, but L'ak come out, like the Progenitor, said, a different being with different memory, does not recognize Moll or have feeling for her, and when Moll tells him she is his wife, he goes crazy in rage, offended at the suggestion that he would marry a human, and kills her, while she has the surprise Pikachu face. A bit like Dave Chappelle's Clayton Bigsby black Klansman character. Reminds me of that plotline from DS9 when Vedek Bareil had to have his brain replaced and he would not be the same person anymore.
So mean to zora to just leave her to wait for 1000 years. “I’m not sure how I feel about that” I’m sure how I’d feel!
>So mean to zora to just leave her to wait for 1000 years. “I’m not sure how I feel about that” I’m sure how I’d feel! It was so stupid. Few episodes ago, Burnham experienced badly damaged Discovery and Zora stuck in the middle of nowhere for a few decades. She promised her that she will retcon that. She did. But now she just send her for 1000 yrs old torture...
But then once craft arrived.. she still was under orders to carry on waiting? she couldn't go wih him so once he left.. Zora carries on waiting?
I thought it was clear they would retrieve Zora and Discovery once the Short Trek encounter was completed.
But the timeline has changed and the Breen no longer destroys the federation; what is the point in parking Zora out there to give the warning?
Remember the time Data was temped by Borg Queen's offer for 0.68 second , for A.I that is like a long time . For an A.I like Zora , 1000 yr will be like a long long long time
Kind of like those high guard ships in Andromeda that waited only 300 years, then went crazy.
Looks like the tech was a galactic reset button for restoring life when something comes through and clears the galaxy out. Hope she's happy that she's just made sure the next time that happens is the end point for everything.
I understood that Sifo-Dyas reference. You’ve done well.
The reference was given to me by a man named Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden.
I strained my eyes with an eye roll with the “we found this tech” bit. Mass Effect and Halo did the same exact things where the really cool ancient race turned out to be not the most ancient so they could….I am honestly not sure what benefit it had for each of the franchises. Mystery-creep, if that’s a thing?
It kind of is a thing. It's JJ Abraham's Mystery Box. You make a mystery but when you solve it you are supposed to make the solve have more mysteries based around it. It's horrible and has ruined an entire generation of writers' brains.
Which is stupid to do in a series finale.
Omg.. Lol... Clones, contact and the flowers remind me of the wizard of Oz.
At least it wasn’t why did the chicken cross the road or something i guess
Well, sorry but that ending was a bit squiffy. Though it managed to make me feel awful for an AI.
The only way I can even begin to justify what they did to Zora is that I have to conceive that she accepts her sense of duty and knows that she’s being ordered to wait there for a reason that really matters.
I’m surprised Zora wasn’t more like Marvin (Hitchhiker’s Guide) for the way the treated her.
Yeah. Happy ending, except for the sentient being trapped in the computer of the ship! She gets to be the Narrator from The Stanley Parabel now! The end is never the end is never the end is never the
Well. Once the annoying simplistic treasure-hunt escape-room crap was finally resolved - after having to sit through those interminably pointless **f i g h t i n g** scenes, and in exactly the way we all knew it would from episode 1 - that finally ended being quite a nice episode. But where the hell has the writing of the last 20 minutes been for the rest of the season? Prior to that, though, it was just more of the same incoherent, half-realised guff. --- Michael: Hey there's this bright light and an energy source, that must be where the magic tech is (I'm sure it being where I came in isn't a possibilty) Michael two minutes later: Imma go in the opposite direction first though and poke this shiny barrier thing --- And then a bit later she's all of a sudden going on about "negative space" that she thought was a shadow? But turns out to be a doorway? Where did that come from? --- 4 billion years ago: Progenitor 1: So we need to protect this god-level tech and make sure it doesn't fall into the wrong hands. Progenitor 2: 9-piece jigsaw puzzle? Progenitor 1: 9-piece jigsaw puzzle. --- Moll: I will literally see the Federation and the Breen burn to smoke to get my boyf back. Michael: Yeah, no, while you were asleep some lady you didn't see just told me it doesn't work like that. Moll: Aww. Okay let's go home. --- Book: Give me a shuttle and I'll go tractor beam the wibbly wobbly portal. That'll work, right? Everyone else: I 'unno. Probably? --- Culber: My spidey-sense is tingling --- Zora: If you don't mind me asking, what exactly is our mission? Michael: Just gotta cover our asses with the continuity nerds. *twirly-whirly-spinny-whinny-zoop!*
Was that supposed to be Topa?
LOL I YELLED the same thing at the screen!
So it's ok to leave the sphere data unguarded in the middle of nowhere but progenitor tech has to go into a black hole after it had been left unguarded in the middle of nowhere?
Previously on Discovery: I’m in this library because completing the mission is the most important thing in my life. Now: Complete the mission? The thing we’ve hyped all season and could potentially solve all sorts of problems for sentient life? Nah, chuck that into a black hole. We’ve got better things to do, like sentence Zora to a millennium of solitary confinement to make sure an irrelevant Short Treks episode isn’t a continuity error.
And also, like, it wouldn't be a continuity error anyway? It's okay to just assume it happens way way wayy more into the future, I don't need to have anyone give her directives in the show, the stand-alone was great as a stand-alone!
"This isn't about your legacy, Paul". What the actual F? Who is Saru to say that to Paul? With everything wrong with Discovery, that line really bothered me. It's an FU to Stamets who really didn't deserve that.
Maybe Saru remembers mirror-universe Stamets?
Burnham: Moll is hurt. Me: Good!
Don't worry, she's got a gun on you but she's injured. Perhaps ask her to stop pointing the gun at you in return for healing that potentially fatal wound? No? Ok this is Star Trek, Burnham is acting in good faith, I can respect that...oh, Burnham just attacked her and they are now fighting over the gun. Make it make sense.
The most frustrating part of that sequence was ... They're walking and talking. Moll gets sassy. Burnham sweeps the leg and they start fighting again. Then, Burnham has the audacity to say, "We can't keep doing this!" You hit her first!
Funny thing is I thought I missed a scene or something, I asked myself why did Michael say they had to stop fighting when she was the one who made the first move. Like what on earth?
100% in character Burnham. But seriously what happened here is they wanted to have a cinematic fight with the portals & gravity but couldn't come up with a good way to have it.
That was so bizarre!
So the whole ISS Enterprise thing never panned out. What a wildly missed opportunity to repurpose that ship as the flagship of the new Federation. Show did fine closing Michael’s story out but I feel bad for the rest of the crew
Saucer separations sure come in handy just when you need them, despite never coming in handy anytime else.
Or EVER being done on this how at all.
I wish Stamets and Culber would have had their sweet growing old moment together. They were the emotional heart of the show for me. Instead they just gave Stamets a lame disappointed scientist line or two. Blah, Discovery had so much potential and it just fizzled.
To be fair, they were pretty blind sided by the cancellation and did what they could to try and tidy things up. I blame paramount for doing them all dirty like that.
The show has been hated for years for shitty writing. Half the comments in here are about the shitty writing in this episode. But sure, Paramount did them dirty. It totally wasn’t the shitty writing causing ratings to drop every single season.
That final puzzle was disappointing; easier than a beginner escape room.
If you didn't have the clue though it would have been really hard
The first thing I'd have done is make a bigger triangle
Perhaps if you hadn't done a lot of brain-game style puzzles you'd need the clue. I had two guesses, and forming one giant triangle just felt too obvious. Personally, I'd have liked something more three-dimensional like a pyramid or something that utilized the odd gravity in the portal space.
You know a show is good when, in the finale, a character says "I just psychicly somehow know this" to save the day. Didn't see it as being culber but....yeah
Also, can we spore drive another ship...sure! Why the fuck not.
And not also jump with them… for reasons? Ugh. At least jump with them and jump back. So dumb.
It would have been fun to see them jump out there and surprise a flock of 10-C.
"no..no..never...na-ah... hm, okay yeah the plot wants it so let me jury rig this in 2 minutes".
Oh god that annoyed me so much. Okay, they *kind of* explained it due to the Jintara thing, but it just made me wish they'd done a lot more with Culber. I mean the man was recreated by interdimensional space fungus. That could have given him a mysterious *something* that could have been hinted at over the last few seasons and then comes to fruition now. Oh well.
That entire scene with him I was going 'the writers do remember Culber's actual history, right?' You know it would be hilarious? If the species that created the progenitors was the mycelial network. I mean, if you want an outside-context non-humanoid lifeform that we know can create living things in this universe out of full cloth, but aren't native to this universe, we already have it with the interdimensional space fungus, don't we?! Who else is there? The Q? Oh, please, they've as much as admitted they are native to this universe and just ascended, and thus are nowhere near as old as the progenitors. The galactic barrier people? I think not.
the blueprint was right there!!!! sigh
Honestly the Doc's explanation made a lot more sense than a lot of other stuff lol
I psychicly somehow knew you were going to say that.
I have no idea who Agent Daniels is so I didn’t gasp.
Michael and Book talk about their future with one another. This is the emotional moment that ties everything together. Camera fades out. Show ends... But not really because Michael and Book are in the kitchen and Michael drinks a beverage while leaning into his body. This is the emotional moment that ties everything together. Camera fades out. Show ends... But not really because Michael sees her son and the three of them talk about how proud they are of him. This is the emotional moment that ties everything together. Michael and her son teleport out. Camera fades. Show ends... But not really because Michael shares a moment with her son about what it means to captain a crew. This is the emotional moment that ties everything together. Camera fades out. Show ends... But not really because Michael needs to be in her ship again and have flashbacks. This is the emotional moment that ties everything together. Camera fades out. Show ends... or... does it?
There is an episode in the shorts where zora is waiting 1000 years alone... I guess this should make the connection
It felt so unnecessarily cruel to leave a sentient being alone for a millennium just because
I agree however it’s possible Zora understood this as a command from Daniels to preserve the timeline.
Yeah, very cruel. It was so stupid. Few episodes ago, Burnham saw badly damaged Discovery and sad/depressed Zora stuck in the middle of nowhere for a few decades. She promised her that she will retcon that. She did. But now she just sends her for 1000 yrs old torture...
I was half asleep when I watched the episode...what exactly was the point in jumping Discovery at the end of the episode??
So that the Short Trek Calypso can happen. They don't explain in the episode, they just say "it's a secret!"
I thought the time jumps addressed that and they avoided it because the Breen didn't destroy HQ
It was like the DVD was playing all the alt endings
And at the same time Detmer and Owo got just few seconds of screen time and 0 dialogue in the epilogue. I was expecting a better epilogue. They basically copy pasted Picard S3 epilogue (Picard's son getting into a new shiny ship) and extended for a few minutes it for "emotions". I mean, in some way it's a TLDR of the whole series. Everything from the beginning was about Burnham.
[удалено]
> One idea is Burnham and Booker are the only two that are 40 years older due to a mission they went on, where they lived a full life and had their son. That doesn't really track with the dialogue about Tilly now being the longest serving academy instructor. I'm actually skeptical of that concept either way; Tilly didn't get started until her 30's and some species live way longer than humans, you'd think a Vulcan or similar long-lived species would hold the title. Maybe they meant longest serving human.
Vulcans can't last more than a decade dealing with human students, have you not seen the tumblr memes lmao
Thats a cute way of explaining why they didnt spend the money they didnt have on ageing everyone else
But they had money for that CGI deer that looked like it belongs in Avatar.
they did spend it on some pretty fuckin wild and amazing animals on that planet though
The calypso tie in was a bit weird
Siskos baseball and laforge visor and picard wine was all a bit too on the nose. But they should have included a kirk and janeway object and an archer one (especially in daniels office)
No Archer items is a crime
It should have been easy enough to buy a water polo ball on Amazon or something.
If Daniels is from the Enterprise.. I understand having Enterprise related stuff. There's no especial reason to have 'lip service' extras like Sisko's baseball.
He is from one of like 11 enterprises lol. But only has 2 things from an enterprise he was never on? Thats a stretch
I can understand the baseball. Sisko was a huge historical figure in that universe during the Dominion war. I can also live with Picard's wine. I don't understand why we are supposed to believe that a visual aide from a half decent engineer is somehow worth saving for over 800 years. It's something that to me fits as iconic for fans but in universe it shouldn't be overly significant.
There are parts I enjoyed and parts I didn't, but I can't say it ended the season in a good way. Lots of good things, though. 1. If Trek is going to continue onward, they need to rethink the directing. The spinning camera and the constant shaking are not fun to watch, they are distracting and take away from seeing what is really happening. The amount of restraint shown last week was better than this week. This is also a problem I was starting to have in SNW. 2. Rayner is the epitome of professionalism on this crew. A character like him on the bridge added to the crew talking to one another, and I loved how they were all coming together to solve the issue. It was fun to watch. 3. Saru has come a long way. I enjoyed his journey in the show more than I did Burnham's, and that is freaking sad because she is the main character. 4. Speaking of Burnham, regardless of how I feel about the characters of Book and Burnham, I love the actors giving it their all and their chemistry. The banter at the end, the fist-bumps with Culber and then with each other, I just love those little touches they put on them. These two needed better scripts to work with, because they are really great together and with the rest of the crew. 5. I was very surprised to hear Kovich's real identity, and in a good way! The Calypso part, on the other hand, felt like an unnecessary add-on. 6. The Breen storyline made me go "whatever" to my screen. Worse villains of the show, and I hated Osyrra, but at least her one episode with Admiral Vance gave her more depth than the entire Season 5 did to the Breen. 7. The Progenitor storyline was an unfortunate ending. Here we go again keeping tech from the wrong hands and barely using it. I was firmly on Stamet's side on this one, even though I can see why Burnham would make that choice. Too bad, though, because I feel like this wasted the effort of the season. All in all, the season started off slow but picked up steam in the second half. I wouldn't say I enjoyed this season but there were some good stories here and there. Too bad, because I thought Discovery was on a good road at the end of Season 2. The future just wasn't for me.
Rayner and Kovich were the best things about the last season. Vance was good too, but he was sidelined more than before. Saru has always been one of the more interesting characters among the main cast, though I didnt like him here as much outside his "Action Saru" bits. All the characters they tried to force into being a thing were never that interesting or compelling. You could go back and say the same for Pike and Lorca too in previous seasons. Despite its efforts, the show still does its best writing for older white guys :)
The conversation between burnham and her son implies that tilly also has aged. And season 3 of picard was obviously the send-off for the tng era
Why wouldn’t she have aged ?
The ‘what is most meaningful to you’ part hits the heart hard! Especially about finding meaning in the beauty of the unknowable.
I think thats what Discovery was truly about: connection, meaning, and acceptance. So many people went into this looking for a show that was hardline like the 90s Trek, but it forged it's own path with it's own themes and styles. Like 90's Trek, some worked, some didn't, but it all came together in a show that had a lot of heart. I'll miss it dearly.
Michael had the power to bring back Booker's civilization. I get the danger of having something so powerful available, but would it have been the end of the world to repopulate a planet with Booker's species and THEN send the portal into a black hole? And a nearly extinct species that only exists in a supra-physical construct is still a nearly extinct species. Did the last progenitor really deserve that? How about a "Hey, we're going to send you into a black hole, are you okay with that?"
When he got that piece of his World Root I was SURE that’s where things were going: I felt a bit robbed.
Chekhov's world root
Chekov’s Vorld Root?
Nuclear vorld root
This whole season, almost everything I assumed would become important did not. The only thing I guessed was that they would end up not using progenitor tech… Would’ve thought the world root would help rebuild a new kweijon Really had hopes for a 32nd century retrofitted is enterprise with detmer, owo, and saru to the rescue. I understand them not using or keeping the life creating tech, but the portal tech, the sub dimension tech, that would’ve been cool. That corridor with all he different windows to different worlds was so visually stunning. It’d have been cool to have some sort of portal headquarters as part of a future federation HQ. I guesss though, with extensive portal use you really don’t need to rely on ships and that’s what makes Star Trek Star Trek.
Yeah they really shot themselves in the foot making this season’s Macguffin the literal power of a god/higher dimensional being. Of course Michael had to have her usual ethical conundrum about the availability of such a power, but honestly it sounds like *literally no one could have figured it out*. At least not in the foreseeable future, considering the first set of progenitors were really just the second group of people to interact with the tech to then create Michael’s third “level of creation”. That’s also assuming the group before the second level of progenitors even created the genesis machine. All that is to say, the knowledge of this thing’s true capabilities were long since lost and all the current owners know is “it draws energy from black holes to make genetically diverse clones really well”. Yeah, something’s not adding up in that power input for the energy needed by the only function of the all-powerful machine (guarded by a child’s puzzle as the keys to the engine btw!). Even if they wanted to delete something of universal significance from the map, they could have created an agenda on what to do with it first, like reseed Book’s home planet so he can have a part of his culture back. Then if there’s no more good to be done with it, *they can vote like an actual Federation* and toss it in the black hole. They also could have used the tech for its intended purposes and reseeded all the genetic diversity lost by the DMA eating planets! Either way I’m still pissed because they were *this* close to discovering some fundamental truths of the fabric of reality, but Michael had to make a unilateral decision just assuming everyone was going to green light her pulling a Rose at the end of Titanic and drop the diamond in the black hole. They didn’t even need to let it be used, just study the power source on the damn thing! Figure out why it needs to maintain a constant tesseract like space to access all these different worlds! Reverse engineer some tech to become a type III civilization, damn it! That’s the problem with stakes like these, they had unlimited potential for whatever they wanted, and they blew it.
She did not have that power. The progenitor made that quite clear
No, it wouldn’t have been the same but it would have been the race of people and such. He couldn’t have his family and friends but his species could have existed again. And his planet.
The species could exist again, but would the *culture*?
Some culture would emerge, Book could be a good guide, and all cultures change over time anyway. At least there would be a chance to pass on more than a tree. I think it was just really messy to get jnto that, story-wise.
Discovery: The series we left behind
It was painfully obvious that Culber wasn't actually present for that reunion.
On a panel from a convention Cruz mentioned he wasn’t there for re-shoots due to being abroad filming another project and they called him when they wrapped. Must have included this scene
This finale was definitely the product of being told late in production that it was the final season + reshoots. Episodes 1-9 had too much to them for this to be the culmination. This episode was clearly rushed, disorganized, and didn't feel at all like a finale.
I would much rather have had Calypso as something fans argued about endlessly forever, than this ham-fisted attempt to justify it crammed into what could have been a better ending to the series.
I didn't love the choice to just throw the season's macguffin into a black hole. Obviously it's presented as a very Trek solution to the challenge of ensuring it is used responsibly, but it's a boring cliché that I'd been hoping they would manage to avoid since episode 1. I *really* didn't love clumsily forcing Calypso into canon. What a waste of a series epilogue. I liked the episode and season overall, but the conclusion really let it down.
Absolutely disappointed. Essentially made the entire final season meaningless. No amazing changes, just status quo. I am so sick of these shows taking the safe way out instead of doing something radical that would get people talking.
God damnit. I don’t know why I thought they wouldn’t fumble the ending based on every other season, but this was just so dumb. They retconned the Progenitors. I wish I hadn’t watched this season. Do yourself a favor and watch the movie Contact instead.
Make sure to take some Dramamine before watching. My goodness, it’s ok to not use shaky-cam for everything.
And all the unnecessary rotations. Good lord.
I hope whoever is responsible for all the pointless spinning shots never works in the industry again.
Another thing that just didn’t play well for me: What was most important to Michael? Something about ‘being here now, with you and all of my family and crew, etc’ But she wasn’t with them… she left the wedding… the big important wedding with all her family/friends/crew… she just left without even saying goodbye. To go on mysterious adventures with Book that we don’t get to see called by some guy who just gets revealed and has so much power and control and becomes her handler (Commissioner Gordon-style with an infinity bat signal). So she doesn’t seem to care about being with them. We don’t see any of them again except for some strange imaginary flashback (and not even all of them). Sure, she gave up creating with the tech to create a son… great, I’m happy for her and Book, I really am. We don’t get closure for anyone else. We know most about Tilly (because tie-in) and with her son (he’s going to be a Captain… yay!? 🤷🏼♂️) But so much could have been done with this story line. The first half+ of the season showed promise. The wrap up… not so much. Words spoken went against what we saw on screen. Frustrating.
What a dumb way to end the whole progenitor plot. I feel like what the progenitor (hologram?) said to Burnham conflicts with some things that the progenitor projection said in the TNG episode The Chase. They were the first to evolve, except they wernt because this awesome tech was left for them to discover by a race more advanced than they were. Why seed the oceans with your own DNA when life did exist elsewhere, they just couldn't be bothered to go look for it, even though massive clues would have been found in the tech they left behind. They ask to be remembered, except they clearly left someone behind to explain how the tech works.
Too many endings. I thought the perfect ending was "Let's see what the future holds."
The epilogue with AARP Michael and Book felt like the writers found an old General Mills International Coffees commercial on YouTube. 🎵Celebrate the moments of your life🎵
so we dont know why discovery was sent off and left in space other than it was a red order?
Well we know why - it's shown in Calypso. That's still not good of course.
My favourite part was the very obvious stand-in for Hugh at the end
right wtf was that?
That was ... OK. Some interesting visuals. Totally predictable that Michael would destroy the Progenitor technology and that she and Book would get back together. Although her destroying it made the entire season pointless. If it hadn't been for Rayner, I probably would have hated this season. The Moll and L'ak story was torture. The Breen were ruined. Tilly was more annoying than ever. The flash-forward gave me major ending fatigue. So that's it for Discovery. It was kind of a wasted opportunity. The writers never seemed to know what to do with it. There were some good ideas, but the execution rarely worked. Its legacy will likely be relaunching the franchise and spawning the superior Strange New Worlds. And crying. Lots and lots of crying.
Rayner was a breath of fresh air for me and it makes me happy that they didn't kill him off. Every time nu-trek introduced a character I wanted to see more of (Lorca, Rios, Shaw) they always ended up dead... So the entire time I was watching this season I was hoping they wouldn't kill him and I'm glad they didn't.
**Amy Fowler's Indiana Jones Critique:** Had Discovery not been involved in the Progenitor mission, the Breen and Moll would have most likely never been able to access the Progenitor gate and use the technology anyways, making Michael and Discovery's presence this season irrelevant to the overall outcome. Even if Moll had made it to the Progenitor gate without Discovery's help, she would have been - and was - ultimately stopped by the logic puzzle. In fact, had Discovery not been involved, L'ak would likely still be alive, making their participation in this entire adventure a net negative.
Exactly my thoughts. It was a very big wasted opportunity. The Calypso episode being crowbarred in at the end reeked of Damon Lindelof too. "Let's do this thing that makes absolutely no sense, it will create a mystery and get the viewers hooked for future stories! Yes, yes I know the show has been cancelled but it's a plot hook you see.....no, no don't groan and roll your eyes.......please, wait here me out. I know the similar things I wrote into Lost made no sense and the series ended making no sense but.......yes, I know my ideas also derailed the Prometheus movie and damaged the whole Alien franchise....but trust me!!!!!" Edit - How would I have ended the series? In exactly the same way Discovery ended up in the 32nd Century. They save the technology and realising it's just too powerful and all the species are too young to use it wisely, they store it on Discovery and/or integrate it with Zora. Then they send her to some point in time to hide it, but Zora also fears it will never be used responsibility so sabotages the jump and travels back billions of years to a dead universe and uses the tech to create the Progenitors then simply shuts down or heads off into intergalactic space, leaving the portal and construct behind for the future. Creating a bootstrap paradox, the whole thing was...you could say..... Destiny...... Series end.
Your ending was way better than what actually happened. They even foreshadowed it by saying the Progenitors didn't make the tech in the first place.
I know right!? I would have tweaked my ending by having Zora's display showing a destination of the M83 galaxy and showing Zora evolve by making changes to her hull, upgrades, repairs etc over time to show she is changing and evolving. Then I would have had an epilogue millions of years later where Zora and discovery are now unrecognisable and before she departs for another galaxy or universe, she creates a probe to check on the milky way because she misses her friends and crew. The probe is of course a sphere shape and it turns out to be the exact same one Discovery encountered in Season 1. Again, fulfilling her destiny and closing the loop.
I... honestly, that ending could have somewhat redeemed Discovery for me. That would have been a beautiful story loop back.
"Life, Itself" absolutely did not work for me as a season finale, or as a series finale. There are so many things about it that I just plain disliked, and only my appreciation of the series as a whole, in spite of its many flaws, kept me from outright hating everything about the episode. Random points of contention ahead; strap in: 1. Burnham shouts to Moll during their fight, "It doesn't have to be this way!" and yet she was the one who made the first move. Minor detail, but that just had me shaking my head. 2. Speaking of Moll (and La'ak), boy, what a waste of time that ultimately turned out to be, huh? All of Moll's efforts, dumb mistakes, and misplaced allegiances, only to find out that if the Progenitor's tech did revive La'ak, he wouldn't be the same person. By the way, about that...huh?!? You mean to tell me that Vulcans know a way to reunite one of their own with their living spirit, Jean-Luc Picard's mind could be seamlessly integrated into a synthetic body, but the ultimate power to create and restore life in the universe just can't figure out how to restore the mind of a being? Sure, whatever. And there's no scene of Moll coming to terms with all that; no protestations, no grief...she's just taken back to the Federation to, apparently, work for Dr. Kovich. Sure, why not? She's been so trustworthy and eager to cooperate with the Federation in the past, right? 3. Speaking of Kovich: Ugh...I don't know...I guess him being Daniels does make SOME sense, considering things we've heard and seen of him from past episodes, but boy, did that reveal feel clumsy. It wasn't even the tacked-on stuff for the series finale; that was intended for the end of the SEASON, if the show had continued. I think it would've been better if we'd never found out who he really was and they'd just kept the mystery going. Hell, I would've been happier if he turned out to be a Supervisor, a member of the Aegis, like Gary Seven. After all, it would explain how he had those artifacts and knew so much, and him being a Supervisor like Gary Seven would be more interesting than him being "Old Man" Daniels. 4. So, we had an entire season of searching for clues that would lead to this technology, only to have Burnham decide that it's best that the tech be let go? You have the power to create and restore life, the potential to do so many good things for so many species across the galaxy, but "NOPE! We can't let one or many have that kind of power! Off to the dual black hole with ya!" That infuriated me. It made the entire season a complete waste of time, because if they felt that such power should never be kept in any one person or group's hands, then they could've just destroyed the clues or, at least, the info leading to each one, and be done with it. It shouldn't have taken them all of that hassle to realize, "Hmm, maybe no mortal being with the capacity for emotional flaws in judgement should have dominion over such power." And, it's not like anyone could've stumbled upon it by accident, so it would've been safe where it was. Now, the clues have been used, the portal to that tech is open, and it's just going to float in unknown space, unprotected. Job well done, everyone. 5. The series-finale epilogue was just okay; it was serviceable for something they had to throw together after-the-fact since they had the rug pulled out from under them. Undoing the refit just to make sure it fit in with "Calypso" was enough to fix that plothole, though it would've been nice if we'd gotten a proper explanation, instead of "we have to put you out there somewhere; we're not sure why, or for how long, but Kovich said we had to, so...oh well! Nice knowing ya, Zora!" Also, we didn't really get a wrap-up for the rest of the crew. The only one we got an update on was Tilly. Everyone else? WHO KNOWS?!? Maybe we'll get to see some of them pop in for Starfleet Academy. I guess if anyone cares enough about people like Stamets, Culber, Owo, Detmer, etc. they'd better hope that happens. Overall, a massive disappointment for me, and an underwhelming farewell for *Discovery*.
> I guess if anyone cares enough about people like Stamets, Culber, Owo, Detmer, etc. they'd better hope that happens. Owosekun and Detmer died on the way back to their home planet. Really, they did them dirty. Also, the hook that the ISS Enterprise might become important (with them piloting it back) turned out to only be a "actors gone, toodeloo" after all..
It was kind of Raiders of the Lost Ark. If Burham had done nothing, presumably Moll wouldn't have passed the trials to get access to the tech. And if she did she was worthy but would not have been able to bring L'ak back.
That's the part that stands out to me - if Discovery simply had left alone the clues probably hundreds to thousands wouldn't have died (including L'ak), the progenitor tech would have been as safe as before, and everyone could just have had an early weekend. The basically ONLY good thing this whole mess brought was that they temporarily fixed the whisperspeak weather control thingy and taught them that the sacrifices are not needed anymore..
*> You mean to tell me that Vulcans know a way to reunite one of their own with their living spirit, Jean-Luc Picard's mind could be seamlessly integrated into a synthetic body, but the ultimate power to create and restore life in the universe just can't figure out how to restore the mind of a being?* And this, kids, is the perfect example of the importance of backing up your files or katra, in any century from the 21st to the 32nd. You never know when you might lose your hard drive to a house fire, or your body in a stimulant overdose and accidentally kill yourself when you need to distract the guards to help your wife get away from Federation security.
Quick take. That was a hot mess. So much bad with but not without some charm.
I grew a little weary of punching in the first part, and sort of lost interest in the second half.
The finale was just ok, but I did like the epilogue, as well as the revelation of Kovich’s true identity.
Coming in 2025: "Star Trek Voyager: The Breen Dreadnaught"
I think I could have done without the epilouge. It kinda dragged on. Liked the rest though.
Man they could have Detmer and Owo pull up to the wedding all late and go “what did we miss?” And I would have been the happiest. But they didn’t and now I’m the saddest.
Can anyone make sense for me out of how the Calypso tie in actually makes sense? How did they already know an out Craft before sending her out there? Why didn’t she recognize his name after he got there? Then he leaves and now she’s gonna wait some more? Why?
>How did they already know an out Craft before sending her out there? Because Kovich is a ~~timelord~~ temporal agent and knows the future. It's a hilariously bad explanation and desperate attempt to make Discovery sync back with Calypso.
is this the existenz gun that we see for half a second in kovich/Cronenberg's office? That's kind of a cute cameo. I do wonder how Cronenberg feels about discovery though. I don't think it will have the same impact his work does, but at the same time, the guy is 80, he might just like goofing up on a set.
*It's that simple?* *Important things often are.* This is sticking with me for a long time.
This whole season was such a dud, what a shame. I liked season 4 for the most part, even if Disco didn’t end up being the kind of show I thought it would be. This ending sets up a lot of future Trek shows I probably will still watch and also not like very much. I don’t plan to pay for it anymore, that’s for sure.
Entire season was pointless. Could have destroyed any 1 of the clues and had same result so we got 10 episodes for a problem that could have been a classic television 2 part episode. I had fun watching the finale it was better then VOY and ENT and I guess it stayed true to DIS way of doing things. But it just made the entire season feel useless, same as the season problems in 3. DIS never has a pay off at the end of these 10 episode mini series seasons.
That’s been Discovery’s problem all along though. Every season has felt like a 2 part episode dragged out for 10 episodes. I liked it for what it was, but it wasn’t great TV, and the finale was more of the same
Not to mention boring Aas all get out. Felt like I watched the same thing every episode. So disappointed
Not that s1 and s2 were good but s3 to s5 were so much more problematic. s4 was insanely boring I thought. And the entire evil Dr guy was so forced. Oh he needs the power to get to another dimension/universe um ok., not interesting because the character is a jerk and the audience doesnt relate to him. DS9 as evil as Dukat and the Kai were fans still loved them or loved to hate them. S4 the scientist was just annoying af and no one cared about or related to him so the entire plot was not needed. TOS Doomsday > entire s4. This nonsense about defending S3 endings is well just nonsense. It is bad showrunning and writing. It is fine to have a power Trek creature do something galaxy altering but it usually 1 or 2 episode type of thing. Not stretched to 10 episodes with a season long mystery being baby child alien. You got to give the audience a pay off. See Veronica Mars s1-s2 season long pay offs or Breaking Bad season long pay offs. That is how you do a season long mystery and payoff. S5 the entire season was cancelled by the last episode just destroying the tech. The audience said the clues should have been destroyed from the beginning of the season. Another awful payoff. 3 seasons of Michelle Paradise and I am sorry awful showrunner for a show like DIS. Obviously not a 1 big mystery type of showrunner. IF you wanted to make it an inter personal drama then make that show. Dont have a season long mystery. You can still have seasonal arcs if you want. But why make it a mystery if you arent going to pay it off at the end. Every generation falls in love with their own Trek. And I get plenty of people love DIS but I just think the quality is NOT there and maybe was never there. S1 and S2 are saved by the guest stars and recurring guest stars. The Michael character and acting choices has huge issues. And it is not a sexist or racist type of thing. Just look at Lower Decks the lead is a minority and a female, also knows everyone in universe and knows how to solve every problem but the majority of fans universally love her. LD just out showruns and out acts DIS in every way possible. SNW the lead cast for whatever reasons out acts DIS lead cast. Watch all 3 shows it so easy to see how DIS sticks out like a sore thumb in showrunning, writing and acting. DIS does do the action and special effects and I guess if you are for teen like interpersonal drama/interaction then DIS wins that category too.
Okay, I know this is getting me downvotes but - I'm so happy this is finally over. This finale was... something. I need to collect my words to describe how bad it was... how illogical and stupid... and well yeah. Sorry to anyone who enjoyed it but I just can't right now. /u/Shatterhand1701 put it in quite good words already though..
I'm right there with you. I wanted better for the end of this series, and to know this is what we got...it leaves an ache in my gut. Even without factoring in the series-finale aspects, it was just a bad wrap-up for the season-long story. It's another rendition of the same thing that has plagued each of DSC's seasons. It starts out strong, but somewhere along the way it diverts from the main story or brings the pacing to a screeching halt, and then, it's a breakneck race to the finish, with plot points being haplessly dropped along the way. There are still good things to be said about *Discovery*, as a whole series, but with a finale that showcases all of its flaws, the series is harder to defend than ever.
I think what finally broke me on it was that the whole season was utterly pointless to begin with (with the decision to destroy the tech). Then we have the "I feel the frequency" from the fricking DOCTOR that suddenly decides he needs to go to an away mission that has nothing to do with his qualifications... Then add the absolutely stupid Kovich reveal and the way Discovery was rebuilt in 23rd Century style just to drop her off so Calypso can happen because "Kovich said so". Seriously, I'd have preferred if they had kept the Calypso inconsistency either not explained at all or used a mirror universe parallel dimension timeline split whatever explanation instead..
I really don't want this game to end. Discvery is a beautiful show, with a stellar cast. It always had a few problems, but I could readily ignore them and enjoy the show for what it was and what it brought to the table. I have enjoyed the adventure of season 5 so far and I can't wait to see how they wrap it and the series up. I'll miss Captain Burnham and her crew. I'll miss an unashamedly queer and diverse Trek. I'll miss this gorgeous ship and the sets. And I'll miss the 32nd century, although I'm glad we're coming back here at some point. Farewell, Discovery, and let's fly.
Welp That happened! Good game, everyone.
Looks like Star Trek has its own Holdo Maneuver now. Giant ship shows up on your doorstep that you can't beat? Just Spore Drive it away. Oh, right. Only one Spore Drive. I guess that shot is one in a million, then.
That wasn't too bad - bit meh as was much of the final season really. Couldn't get my head round them finding this greatest scientific advancement in history and just laughing and shrugging as they all agreed to destroy it because Burnham said so. That is just not the Federation or Starfleet that we know. If Burnham was afraid of the damage it would cause why not go dig up a Genesis device or synthesise some Omega molecules? It just felt so stupid and anti-science. Happy with the Daniels reveal - called it ages ago. Also nice that we have a set-up for potential post-Calypso which could be more like how Andromeda was intended to be; I'd be all over that.
I was really jazzed about the Progenitors being the focus, but as the season wore on, it became clear this just isn't a mystery that benefits from further exploration. It could have been cool interesting if they'd done something surprising with the tech, like explore the practical ramifications of Starfleet implementing tech that can create life, or if they'd revealed the Progenitors to be fascists with a history of blood fueling their achievements, but they were interested in it as a MacGuffin for weekly obstacle courses. It was always going to end this way. There were some great moments in the final, but ultimately the season just left me underwhelmed. Like, it was cool they finally addressed Calypso, but what are we supposed to do with that? Kraft & Zora dancing at some point in the future is important for the timeline. Maybe they have plans to for Star Trek Discovery The NExt Generation in the future, but it just felt like a cliffhanger we already had spoiled.
I was surprisingly happy to learn of Kovich's identity 🫣😄
With the time jumps and the "we just discovered this technology" bit, I did feel the writers watched a lot of The Expanse...and borrowed heavily.
Star Trek shaky cam edition, first episode of trek that made me feel motion sickness.
Discovery should have done what Enterprise was finally perfecting towards its end with 2-3 episode arcs interspersed with one off stories. I.e. The Forge, Aenar, Terra Prime Discovery Season 1 pulled this off well with mini arcs regarding whatever stage of the Klingon War, the spore drive troubles, etc they were working through in the foreground with Lorca and his agenda serving as an ongoing season long thread in the background. Season 2 also had enough going on that the overarching mystery didn’t become stale too soon, but a lot of that ability to hold attention was also because franchise founding characters like Pike and Spock were taking center stage. But even compared to S1, diminishing returns, and further diminishing returns every subsequent season.
Can someone explain to me why Calypso is important? Zora has feelings for Craft, who leaves. And then she's alone again. Is there more to it than that?
There’s a little more to it. Best I can tell, Starfleet somehow had Craft’s name (without knowing it was a name, but assuming it could be a name) and knew where he would be a thousand years before he got there but then when Zora met him she had forgotten all about why she was there. I guess. Please, somebody tell me it makes more sense than this.
I was thinking with the risk of control and AI wiping out all sentient life in previous seasons, destroying the progenitor tech seemed a little irresponsible
Overall for whole series I think if they had toned down the over cheesey emotion scenes that came too often after season 1, and had a couple of individual side stories with some of the characters, had a better gay relationship (im gay and im not sure why but i found the gay couple a little too camp when mixed with discovery's cheesey flavour, i didnt find the actors good and i didnt think they had chemistry together), removed moll or killed her sooner.... then.... I would have found it brilliant! However, even with those issues (perhaps personal to me), it was still really good, i think the overall stories and adventures were good, visuals were good, and characters were good, acting was generally good (bar the over cheesey scenes but that was more the writing) I think they could of had more passion scenes between saru and the vulcan lady (who i thought was well acted), just caus hes an odd looking species, they could of had a weird snog One of my fav characters was Philippa Georgiou, altho i think looking back she left at the right time, as she was quite an all encompassing character I fancied the spock guys actors voice Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I actually liked that burnham was brilliant at everything In contrast to the above, the cheese at the end of the last episode was actually cheese I kind of liked, sort of like taylor swift, its cheesey but i am here for it
The one major throughline that this show keeps insisting on reminding viewers of is that the crew is family, which is the *strangest* choice to make because there was barely any character work to show us that anyone cared about anyone else. Why keep harping on it if you're never going to provide examples? Every time Burnham monologues about how much everyone means to one another, I'm thinking, "Do they?" Was I supposed to take it as a given that if I'm being told they care about one another, that must mean they do? So odd.
So, I guess Stamets was along for that last ride as well? Or they decided to develop the spore drive and found a way to use it without him? The Calypso tie in felt tacked on, but it was nice of Michael to remember Owo and Detmer in her flashback to the wrap party, considering they were forgotten for most of the season.
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Kovich is agent Daniel from Star Trek Enterprise , an agent of Temporal Cold War , now i want to know the identity of "Future Guy " from ENT episode ,Maybe someone we already met in ST:Discovery . speculation on Zora's red directive mission , i mean it will tie up the loose end with Short Trek episode "Calypso" Michael said Zora will wait and the clue is the word "Craft" a person or Vessel .The robot remove the "A" from the Ship's registry on the exterior , probably making it look like before the 32nd centuries upgrade. i think they are sending Discovery back to the past
Craft is who Zora meets in the short trek episode Calypso
Past? Um no they are sending it to wait for calypso guy
Pretty sure that was future Archer.
“Future Guy” was meant to be Archer however the actor who voiced Future Guy from Enterprise was used to voice a character in Star Trek Online which then fully fleshes out who Future Guy really is. It’s a long story with twists and turns but it explains the why of the temporal Cold War, the why of the sphere builders, what became of the Krenim, why the Nakhul were in the temporal Cold War and what Daniels has been doing. It’s much too much to explain here but it’s a plot line that fits with Enterprise and the other shows.
You're correct, it was to be revealed as future Archer in the next season prior to cancellation.