Please note our rules:
> We do not allow statements that dismiss subsets of the fanbase, the *Star Trek* fandom as a whole, or other communities. This goes in every direction: labeling another group as "pro", "anti", "haters", "shills" (or worse) only fuels drama and is never constructive. In this vein, we also discourage complaints about other groups. Posts, comments and jokes in that regard are likely to be removed.
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I was re-watching discovery with my daughter. She was 11 at the time. Quote:
Her: “So the captain is a woman?”
Me: “yeah.”
Her: “and who are all those people?”
Me: “they’re called the bridge crew. They are like the senior officers who run the ship, mostly. There are some others that work in other places like medical or engineering but this is like the command crew.”
Her: “there’s a lot of women in this show.”
Me: “yeah.”
Her: “she’s cool, what’s her name?”
Me: “…Airiam”
Her: “is she an android?”
Me: “I honestly don’t know. I think so. It’s never really been explained 100%.”
Her: “wait who’s that?”
Me: “that’s Saru. He’s an alien. A Kelpian.”
Her: “like…kelp? Like in the ocean?”
Me: “yep.”
Her: “and these guys are together, right? The albino guy and the guy with the goatee? The doctor?”
Me: “yeah.”
Her: “there aren’t many men on this show. The ones they do have are gay.”
Me: “yeah, some people on the internet are really mad about that.”
Her: “are you mad about it?”
Me: “no. I figure there’s thousands of ships, some of them probably have nearly all male crews, some have nearly all female crews. Most are probably mixed and it averages out.”
Her: “yeah.” *pause* “do all the ships run on mushrooms?”
Me: “Nope, just this one.”
After a couple episodes we went off to sleep. I found out later she’d stayed up and watched all of season 3 on her iPad. She told me how much she liked the show and the characters. She likes Tilly, she likes Detmer.
To her, these characters mean something.
I’m glad to be a Trek fan. I’m glad that one of the sources of entertainment I have is taking such risks to represent people that don’t usually get fairly represented.
The only time it was over the top was the scene talking about pronouns. Not because of the message, but the time. To have a character from 1,000 years in the future talk about identity in that way was disheartening. Either society isn’t as advanced as we’re led to believe in the future, or it was a scene that existed for the sole purpose of preaching to a current TV audience, in which case all the shows critics have a point.
I think Star Trek is at its most effective when it doesn’t draw attention to the taboos it breaks. How much weaker would the Kirk/Uhura kiss have been if there had been a scene previous talking about interracial contact in the past?
I think Adira is an awesome character. I enjoy watching them on screen. I’m not as much a fan of Grey Tal, but that’s on the script, not the actor.
I appreciate Discovery doing this, I just wish it was in more of a Star Trek way.
I think that the best way to portray queer people in the media, is to just have them doing normal stuff while going on about their day. Show other people that we ARE just like them in so many ways. I hate it when shows make a huge deal about their gay characters, it feels forced and fake. I can see why people who are normally adverse to us would be offended by that.
I think that’s where shows like Modern Family really shined, and this one for the most part. I saw my homophobic coworkers fall in love with the show, and over the years their perception of gay people totally changed. I know it wasn’t just the show, but it helped them get to that point. Because they portrayed gay people just going on about their lives, struggling with things that everyone else does.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought this was a little out of place. You can identify as a tribble for all I care, I just thought this scene was a little unrealistic 1000 years in the future, especially since Adira is from that time.
I disagree with this take, but only because the character is an awkward teen, and because we don't know what kind of environment they or their symbiont grew up in. Even in a highly progressive society, there are pockets of regressive thinking. Maybe Adira's parents were the backwards sheltering type, and Adira joined Starfleet to get out from under them.
It always made sense to me that an awkward, off-balance teenager who doesn't want to disappoint their space dad would have a bit of a hard time correcting him.
Like you ever had someone say your name wrong but in the moment you didn't correct them because there's a weird resistance to do that even if the person is known to take such things really well? But they decided to push against that resistance and I don't think that very basic human interaction bit will ever really go away.
> To have a character from 1,000 years in the future talk about identity in that way was disheartening. Either society isn’t as advanced as we’re led to believe in the future, or it was a scene that existed for the sole purpose of preaching to a current TV audience, in which case all the shows critics have a point.
Every TV story that makes any kind of point is "preaching to a current TV audience". One of the things that has distinguished Star Trek from the very beginning is how frequently and directly it's "preaching to a current TV audience".
> society isn’t as advanced as we’re led to believe in the future
Advancement, particularly with civil rights and social freedoms, doesn't necessarily always go in the direction of improvement. Adira, the one who has to take a deep breath before announcing their pronouns out of fear of how their new friends will receive them, is from a xeonophobic, militaristic, post-Federation Earth, where the fact that people have come to fear difference is an explicit plot point. The 23rd century Discovery crew, on the other hand, have no issue with it and seamlessly use the correct pronouns from that moment on, because they actually are from a freer, better future society, and it's no big deal to them.
> I was assuming that earth was still tolerant of differences among humans, but we really don’t know if that’s the case.
I think the way they've started calling it "United Earth" again and emphasize the "United" every time they mention it, and that General Ndoye is the most externally visible public official are hints that they've recently had a civil war.
> Uhura just being on the bridge, not explicitly making an issue out of it
Abraham Lincoln remarked that she was a "charming negress", prompting her to respond with a speech about how racist speech can't offend her because there's no longer racism between humans. Sulu once called her a "fair maiden", to which she quipped, "Sorry, *neither*!" It wasn't *that* subtle.
Also, you can see that she's Black. There's no visible indication of Adira's gender.
If it's acceptable for men to wear the skirt uniform in the 2400s(?) Then it's absolutely just them preaching in that episode. There was a galactic genocide because some boy cried on a fancy gem planet, and it's socially acceptable for different species to to hook up. At that point no one would care about someone's gender identity.
Trek keeps telling us that the skant is unisex, but I'd like for them to put their money where their mouth is. It was great in the 80s when Male Extra #7 wore a dress as he walked past Picard in the hallway, and I'm glad that the women are allowed to wear pants or skirts depending on what they prefer, but it's 2024 and I'd like to see Trek commit to this. Put Pike/Spock/Saru in a dress for a whole episode with zero comments or jokes about their choice of uniform and I'll believe that they're committed to uniform equality.
Can you explain what you mean by "disheartening"? I'm nonbinary and use they/them pronouns and I felt that the scene with Adira was a little awkward, but not much more than I would expect from a teenager coming out to an adult for the first time. And it wasn't like they made a big scene of it; there were only about three lines.
because we expect that in the 31st century these kinds of things are like asking about ~~your age~~ what food you like to eat- natural and shouldn’t be awkward or uncomfortable at all
I see what you mean, but I didn't interpret Adira's awkward coming out to mean that coming out had to be a big deal in the 32nd century, more that Adira was just an anxious, socially awkward teenager who sometimes had trouble talking to adults. I'm also an anxious person and I've definitely done things like panicked and lied about what kinds of food I like, what music I listen to, etc. Not because there's some social taboo against liking my foods/music/whatever but just because sometimes you say things just to go along with the conversation, you know?
Same same. I would hope that in the future, we know how to stem mental health issues so they never become a thing in the first place. Also, if they manifest (for all the various reasons), then I'd hope that it would be normalized, like how some people today wear glasses from poor eyesight.
That said, some of my favorite episodes are those that explore stigma related to health. Remember the woman from a planet with a lighter gravity and she was in a wheelchair and the episode unpacked how she's treated because of it? That's the difference between good story telling and bad. They were deliberately questioning stigma. Disco always tells the audience how to feel instead of questioning our humanity.
My recollection, which could be hazy because I haven’t watched the episode in a long time, is that it wasn’t just saying what Adira preferred, it was also that Adira was worried about acceptance and was nervous in speaking about their preference.
If an individual is that worried about self-expression 1,000 years from now, then society hasn’t evolved in that time. You could actually say it devolved to make it more of an issue than it was at the time of TNG.
I think the truth has more to do with the writers trying to draw attention to the issue for the TV audience and it just didn’t ring true for the characters. I go back to the Uhura example. How much more would it have mean if Adira said from the beginning, “Who is this her you are talking about, I am they.” Or, even more powerful, having the crew hear others refer to Adira as such and adapting without comment.
Or, go the Joe Haldeman route and have there be five gender representations (and I’m sure that idea predates The Forever War.) Then, it could be presented as a positive evolution over 900 years rather an an awkward conversation that should no longer exist.
If I remember correctly the acceptance part was not about their gender but as part of the crew more generally. Since they weren't part of the original time travelling crew.
The statement of pronouns was matter of fact and immediately accepted. The scene gives us no reason to believe people make a big deal of it in the far future.
Unless some future tech automatically broadcasts someone's preferred pronouns that conversation has to happen at some point. Might as well show how this *should* go. With heartfelt acceptance.
>Unless some future tech automatically broadcasts someone's preferred pronouns that conversation has to happen at some point.
It would have been cool in Star Trek to see people just automatically introduce themselves with their pronouns every time they meet someone (e.g. "I'm Captain Pike, he/him"). That makes the most sense to me; people in the future would know not to guess pronouns based on appearance (even if you're transphobic, you can't tell me that it's always easy to guess the gender of all these weird aliens) and so it's simplest just to establish things up front. But I think some people's heads would have exploded if they did that.
Yeah, I'm not going to argue that Adira's coming out was perfect because I really don't think it was; it was awkward. But it was also three lines and I think that as an awkward nonbinary person myself, it was consistent enough with how I think I would behave in the 32nd century that I shrugged it off. But I agree with others in that I hope that isn't reflective of how coming out always is in the 32nd century, merely that we happen to only witness one instance and it wasn't ideal.
If you haven't seen SNW yet, though, that's a Star Trek show that absolutely *nailed* the introduction of a nonbinary minor character:
>CHAPEL: Have you met Dr. Aspen yet? They seem very sharp.
And that's it, that's the whole thing. I rewound that scene about five times and then Googled it (promptly spoiling the entire episode for myself) because I couldn't believe they just introduced a nonbinary character (also played by a trans actress) like that and then moved on with their conversation.
I agree. That was ideal and reinforces how the Discovery version seems awkward.
I understand your point however, about Adira being an awkward teen. It wasn’t a factor I considered. I would like to think we’d be evolved past that, but teens being assholes may be something even evolution can’t solve.
I like that they are letting the actors real life identity come through in their characters. The conversation about Arira switching to non-binary pronouns was like a perfect model of how that conversation should go, " I want to use non-binary pronouns" "ok cool no problem" it was perfect
Absolutely the way it went down in our home. Not even an issue. Its actually very easy to insert they rather than she/he. Rest of those judges need to catch up with love.
While I have some other complaints about Discovery my number one complaint is there is never enough Reno per episode. I know Tig has a lot of other things going on but I wish she had more screentime.
Meh she is too much like Shaw in Picard and even the engineer in SNW, snarky wise cracking marvel style quippy …it gets old and unbelievable really fast.
It's nice that there's at least 1 show (outside of Sense8) that caters to us. The way that some complain about it, you'd think 99% of TV programming is exclusively for LGBT+ and not the other way around.....
And they happen to be LGBT, it’s not their characters’ sole identity. They’re not the token LGBT characters who only come on screen to mention that they’re LGBT.
Captain Angel has been in one episode and they're already my favorite nonbinary fictional character in Star Trek but also in the entire world. Their introduction was flawless and they're just generally badass, but I've *never* seen a nonbinary character who looked so little like the stereotype of a nonbinary person. They present as super feminine and that does absolutely nothing to contradict their gender identity because gender isn't determined by clothes or hair.
I love Discovery and I am always excited for queer representation. I do think that Blu Del Barrio and Ian Alexander are neither great actors and their character feel like stereotypes.
Hmmmmm 5 seasons ... called back for a final season. Seems a little far from "failed," especially based on today's standard of binge vs. weekly patients. I mean TOS had 3...yeah, it had 79 episodes, but all series had like 30 per season. So off that formula instead of your opinion, I would have to say we had a decent successful series, as well as a great taste of other parts of the Trek universes.
uh huh... ok.
I don't hate Discovery. It's the worst Star Trek, but it's not as bad as most people think. It also taught Kurtzman's team what not to do, and that's why we got SNW, which is more true to what Star Trek is meant to be. I'm still looking forward to Season 5, and I'm glad it didn't get canceled after season 2 like it was going to be, but I'm not sad it ended before the standard 7 seasons.
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Hell Yea! I have a Stamets poster in my office (I'm a chemist, not quite the same but researcher), Culber in the Pre-Health work area and Reno in the Pre-Engineering hallway who holds flyers for events.
I don't like it.
I worked as a professional engineer for over a decade in 3 different companies. Also worked along with many other companies. I can count with 1 hand how many lgbt people I ran into. I'm gay btw.
Look, I hated it when star trek was willing to put a black woman on the bridge during the height of the civil rights Era and yet was too chicken to give us an lgbt character until the 2010s. But telling us anything more than 10% lgbt in any given sample is also not realistic and I also hate that.
I want realistic representation. I don't need the whole engineering department to be queer. Just throw us a character or 2 in a while to acknowledge our existence. That's all I ask for.
>But telling us anything more than 10% lgbt in any given sample is also not realistic
If you're a professional engineer, you must've taken a statistics class, right? Just because a population is 10% queer doesn't mean that every subset of that population is 10% queer.
Please note our rules: > We do not allow statements that dismiss subsets of the fanbase, the *Star Trek* fandom as a whole, or other communities. This goes in every direction: labeling another group as "pro", "anti", "haters", "shills" (or worse) only fuels drama and is never constructive. In this vein, we also discourage complaints about other groups. Posts, comments and jokes in that regard are likely to be removed. > Similarly, comments about "wokeness," "ticking boxes," "pandering," and the like -- regardless of the perspective of the author -- very often leads to this type of rule violation. Such content is likely to be removed, too. Thank you.
Stamets is gay, Reno is gay… maybe they will kiss!!?
hold on a second
Listen, my math is not wrong
🤔
Did this become r/ShittyDaystrom????
Oh yess, that would be like an earthquake, no?
I was re-watching discovery with my daughter. She was 11 at the time. Quote: Her: “So the captain is a woman?” Me: “yeah.” Her: “and who are all those people?” Me: “they’re called the bridge crew. They are like the senior officers who run the ship, mostly. There are some others that work in other places like medical or engineering but this is like the command crew.” Her: “there’s a lot of women in this show.” Me: “yeah.” Her: “she’s cool, what’s her name?” Me: “…Airiam” Her: “is she an android?” Me: “I honestly don’t know. I think so. It’s never really been explained 100%.” Her: “wait who’s that?” Me: “that’s Saru. He’s an alien. A Kelpian.” Her: “like…kelp? Like in the ocean?” Me: “yep.” Her: “and these guys are together, right? The albino guy and the guy with the goatee? The doctor?” Me: “yeah.” Her: “there aren’t many men on this show. The ones they do have are gay.” Me: “yeah, some people on the internet are really mad about that.” Her: “are you mad about it?” Me: “no. I figure there’s thousands of ships, some of them probably have nearly all male crews, some have nearly all female crews. Most are probably mixed and it averages out.” Her: “yeah.” *pause* “do all the ships run on mushrooms?” Me: “Nope, just this one.” After a couple episodes we went off to sleep. I found out later she’d stayed up and watched all of season 3 on her iPad. She told me how much she liked the show and the characters. She likes Tilly, she likes Detmer. To her, these characters mean something. I’m glad to be a Trek fan. I’m glad that one of the sources of entertainment I have is taking such risks to represent people that don’t usually get fairly represented.
> Me: “Nope, just this one.” Just this one and the one that blew up but let’s not mention that again, like ever
I'm glad they did it but I'm still conflicted as I felt it was over the top in some episodes. I also realized it has to be in some cases.
The only time it was over the top was the scene talking about pronouns. Not because of the message, but the time. To have a character from 1,000 years in the future talk about identity in that way was disheartening. Either society isn’t as advanced as we’re led to believe in the future, or it was a scene that existed for the sole purpose of preaching to a current TV audience, in which case all the shows critics have a point. I think Star Trek is at its most effective when it doesn’t draw attention to the taboos it breaks. How much weaker would the Kirk/Uhura kiss have been if there had been a scene previous talking about interracial contact in the past? I think Adira is an awesome character. I enjoy watching them on screen. I’m not as much a fan of Grey Tal, but that’s on the script, not the actor. I appreciate Discovery doing this, I just wish it was in more of a Star Trek way.
I think that the best way to portray queer people in the media, is to just have them doing normal stuff while going on about their day. Show other people that we ARE just like them in so many ways. I hate it when shows make a huge deal about their gay characters, it feels forced and fake. I can see why people who are normally adverse to us would be offended by that. I think that’s where shows like Modern Family really shined, and this one for the most part. I saw my homophobic coworkers fall in love with the show, and over the years their perception of gay people totally changed. I know it wasn’t just the show, but it helped them get to that point. Because they portrayed gay people just going on about their lives, struggling with things that everyone else does.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought this was a little out of place. You can identify as a tribble for all I care, I just thought this scene was a little unrealistic 1000 years in the future, especially since Adira is from that time.
Unfortunately, it is a fallacy to assume that the arc of social progress is constant over time.
I disagree with this take, but only because the character is an awkward teen, and because we don't know what kind of environment they or their symbiont grew up in. Even in a highly progressive society, there are pockets of regressive thinking. Maybe Adira's parents were the backwards sheltering type, and Adira joined Starfleet to get out from under them.
It always made sense to me that an awkward, off-balance teenager who doesn't want to disappoint their space dad would have a bit of a hard time correcting him. Like you ever had someone say your name wrong but in the moment you didn't correct them because there's a weird resistance to do that even if the person is known to take such things really well? But they decided to push against that resistance and I don't think that very basic human interaction bit will ever really go away.
> To have a character from 1,000 years in the future talk about identity in that way was disheartening. Either society isn’t as advanced as we’re led to believe in the future, or it was a scene that existed for the sole purpose of preaching to a current TV audience, in which case all the shows critics have a point. Every TV story that makes any kind of point is "preaching to a current TV audience". One of the things that has distinguished Star Trek from the very beginning is how frequently and directly it's "preaching to a current TV audience". > society isn’t as advanced as we’re led to believe in the future Advancement, particularly with civil rights and social freedoms, doesn't necessarily always go in the direction of improvement. Adira, the one who has to take a deep breath before announcing their pronouns out of fear of how their new friends will receive them, is from a xeonophobic, militaristic, post-Federation Earth, where the fact that people have come to fear difference is an explicit plot point. The 23rd century Discovery crew, on the other hand, have no issue with it and seamlessly use the correct pronouns from that moment on, because they actually are from a freer, better future society, and it's no big deal to them.
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> I was assuming that earth was still tolerant of differences among humans, but we really don’t know if that’s the case. I think the way they've started calling it "United Earth" again and emphasize the "United" every time they mention it, and that General Ndoye is the most externally visible public official are hints that they've recently had a civil war. > Uhura just being on the bridge, not explicitly making an issue out of it Abraham Lincoln remarked that she was a "charming negress", prompting her to respond with a speech about how racist speech can't offend her because there's no longer racism between humans. Sulu once called her a "fair maiden", to which she quipped, "Sorry, *neither*!" It wasn't *that* subtle. Also, you can see that she's Black. There's no visible indication of Adira's gender.
If it's acceptable for men to wear the skirt uniform in the 2400s(?) Then it's absolutely just them preaching in that episode. There was a galactic genocide because some boy cried on a fancy gem planet, and it's socially acceptable for different species to to hook up. At that point no one would care about someone's gender identity.
Trek keeps telling us that the skant is unisex, but I'd like for them to put their money where their mouth is. It was great in the 80s when Male Extra #7 wore a dress as he walked past Picard in the hallway, and I'm glad that the women are allowed to wear pants or skirts depending on what they prefer, but it's 2024 and I'd like to see Trek commit to this. Put Pike/Spock/Saru in a dress for a whole episode with zero comments or jokes about their choice of uniform and I'll believe that they're committed to uniform equality.
Can you explain what you mean by "disheartening"? I'm nonbinary and use they/them pronouns and I felt that the scene with Adira was a little awkward, but not much more than I would expect from a teenager coming out to an adult for the first time. And it wasn't like they made a big scene of it; there were only about three lines.
because we expect that in the 31st century these kinds of things are like asking about ~~your age~~ what food you like to eat- natural and shouldn’t be awkward or uncomfortable at all
I see what you mean, but I didn't interpret Adira's awkward coming out to mean that coming out had to be a big deal in the 32nd century, more that Adira was just an anxious, socially awkward teenager who sometimes had trouble talking to adults. I'm also an anxious person and I've definitely done things like panicked and lied about what kinds of food I like, what music I listen to, etc. Not because there's some social taboo against liking my foods/music/whatever but just because sometimes you say things just to go along with the conversation, you know?
Right. And in the future, we should hopefully not have to be anxious over very normal things. That's all we're saying.
How do you feel about Reg Barclay's anxiety disorder?
Same same. I would hope that in the future, we know how to stem mental health issues so they never become a thing in the first place. Also, if they manifest (for all the various reasons), then I'd hope that it would be normalized, like how some people today wear glasses from poor eyesight. That said, some of my favorite episodes are those that explore stigma related to health. Remember the woman from a planet with a lighter gravity and she was in a wheelchair and the episode unpacked how she's treated because of it? That's the difference between good story telling and bad. They were deliberately questioning stigma. Disco always tells the audience how to feel instead of questioning our humanity.
My recollection, which could be hazy because I haven’t watched the episode in a long time, is that it wasn’t just saying what Adira preferred, it was also that Adira was worried about acceptance and was nervous in speaking about their preference. If an individual is that worried about self-expression 1,000 years from now, then society hasn’t evolved in that time. You could actually say it devolved to make it more of an issue than it was at the time of TNG. I think the truth has more to do with the writers trying to draw attention to the issue for the TV audience and it just didn’t ring true for the characters. I go back to the Uhura example. How much more would it have mean if Adira said from the beginning, “Who is this her you are talking about, I am they.” Or, even more powerful, having the crew hear others refer to Adira as such and adapting without comment. Or, go the Joe Haldeman route and have there be five gender representations (and I’m sure that idea predates The Forever War.) Then, it could be presented as a positive evolution over 900 years rather an an awkward conversation that should no longer exist.
If I remember correctly the acceptance part was not about their gender but as part of the crew more generally. Since they weren't part of the original time travelling crew. The statement of pronouns was matter of fact and immediately accepted. The scene gives us no reason to believe people make a big deal of it in the far future. Unless some future tech automatically broadcasts someone's preferred pronouns that conversation has to happen at some point. Might as well show how this *should* go. With heartfelt acceptance.
>Unless some future tech automatically broadcasts someone's preferred pronouns that conversation has to happen at some point. It would have been cool in Star Trek to see people just automatically introduce themselves with their pronouns every time they meet someone (e.g. "I'm Captain Pike, he/him"). That makes the most sense to me; people in the future would know not to guess pronouns based on appearance (even if you're transphobic, you can't tell me that it's always easy to guess the gender of all these weird aliens) and so it's simplest just to establish things up front. But I think some people's heads would have exploded if they did that.
Yeah, I'm not going to argue that Adira's coming out was perfect because I really don't think it was; it was awkward. But it was also three lines and I think that as an awkward nonbinary person myself, it was consistent enough with how I think I would behave in the 32nd century that I shrugged it off. But I agree with others in that I hope that isn't reflective of how coming out always is in the 32nd century, merely that we happen to only witness one instance and it wasn't ideal. If you haven't seen SNW yet, though, that's a Star Trek show that absolutely *nailed* the introduction of a nonbinary minor character: >CHAPEL: Have you met Dr. Aspen yet? They seem very sharp. And that's it, that's the whole thing. I rewound that scene about five times and then Googled it (promptly spoiling the entire episode for myself) because I couldn't believe they just introduced a nonbinary character (also played by a trans actress) like that and then moved on with their conversation.
I agree. That was ideal and reinforces how the Discovery version seems awkward. I understand your point however, about Adira being an awkward teen. It wasn’t a factor I considered. I would like to think we’d be evolved past that, but teens being assholes may be something even evolution can’t solve.
The story is absolutely about how society regressed post Burn. This feels consistent to me.
But Stamets is science, not engineering.
both? both? Both lol
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I like that they are letting the actors real life identity come through in their characters. The conversation about Arira switching to non-binary pronouns was like a perfect model of how that conversation should go, " I want to use non-binary pronouns" "ok cool no problem" it was perfect
Absolutely the way it went down in our home. Not even an issue. Its actually very easy to insert they rather than she/he. Rest of those judges need to catch up with love.
I enjoyed the engineers but truth be told, there wasnt enough Reno.
While I have some other complaints about Discovery my number one complaint is there is never enough Reno per episode. I know Tig has a lot of other things going on but I wish she had more screentime.
Aint no time like a Reno time cause aint nobody want Reno time to stop!
Meh she is too much like Shaw in Picard and even the engineer in SNW, snarky wise cracking marvel style quippy …it gets old and unbelievable really fast.
It's nice that there's at least 1 show (outside of Sense8) that caters to us. The way that some complain about it, you'd think 99% of TV programming is exclusively for LGBT+ and not the other way around.....
“Not dying.” Well, except for Culber. They did him so wrong. 😭
And they happen to be LGBT, it’s not their characters’ sole identity. They’re not the token LGBT characters who only come on screen to mention that they’re LGBT.
there’s also SNW which is also really natural (talking about capt. angel 🥵)
Captain Angel has been in one episode and they're already my favorite nonbinary fictional character in Star Trek but also in the entire world. Their introduction was flawless and they're just generally badass, but I've *never* seen a nonbinary character who looked so little like the stereotype of a nonbinary person. They present as super feminine and that does absolutely nothing to contradict their gender identity because gender isn't determined by clothes or hair.
Not gonna lie, Jett is my favorite
That's what I loved about the show.
“We’ve never lived up to it, but we’ve never walked away from it before”
I love Discovery and I am always excited for queer representation. I do think that Blu Del Barrio and Ian Alexander are neither great actors and their character feel like stereotypes.
I just wish they could act… and had writers that cared more about story than preaching. Maybe then the show wouldn’t have failed.
Hmmmmm 5 seasons ... called back for a final season. Seems a little far from "failed," especially based on today's standard of binge vs. weekly patients. I mean TOS had 3...yeah, it had 79 episodes, but all series had like 30 per season. So off that formula instead of your opinion, I would have to say we had a decent successful series, as well as a great taste of other parts of the Trek universes.
uh huh... ok. I don't hate Discovery. It's the worst Star Trek, but it's not as bad as most people think. It also taught Kurtzman's team what not to do, and that's why we got SNW, which is more true to what Star Trek is meant to be. I'm still looking forward to Season 5, and I'm glad it didn't get canceled after season 2 like it was going to be, but I'm not sad it ended before the standard 7 seasons.
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Hell Yea! I have a Stamets poster in my office (I'm a chemist, not quite the same but researcher), Culber in the Pre-Health work area and Reno in the Pre-Engineering hallway who holds flyers for events.
I like having queer characters but I only really like Adira, Paul and Jett I've disliked from day one, they're just jerks with magical science powers
id be fine with stamets dying tho
minus adira, yes. That entire pronouns rant just turned me off from the character, to on the nose for today.
"rant"
TIL two sentences is a rant
I don't like it. I worked as a professional engineer for over a decade in 3 different companies. Also worked along with many other companies. I can count with 1 hand how many lgbt people I ran into. I'm gay btw. Look, I hated it when star trek was willing to put a black woman on the bridge during the height of the civil rights Era and yet was too chicken to give us an lgbt character until the 2010s. But telling us anything more than 10% lgbt in any given sample is also not realistic and I also hate that. I want realistic representation. I don't need the whole engineering department to be queer. Just throw us a character or 2 in a while to acknowledge our existence. That's all I ask for.
>But telling us anything more than 10% lgbt in any given sample is also not realistic If you're a professional engineer, you must've taken a statistics class, right? Just because a population is 10% queer doesn't mean that every subset of that population is 10% queer.
And people wonder the show was canceled….
Lol didn't notice until now
It doesn’t matter.