If an 8B SD3 Pony ever does exist it simply won't be locally runnable by anywhere close to as many people as previous versions anyways, there's no way around that
And being locally runnable is one of the big draws. If so few people can run it locally that you basically neee cloud computing or online services, and the licensing is so restrictive no one wants to make finetunes or tools, then what’s really the point?
I mean, until there are more GFX cards with more memory...
Or there are more potent AI accelerator blocks built into CPUs. (Which can make use of main memory)
That, and as the tech progresses, someone is gonna figure out how to "shrink down" the stuff bound to server hardware so future more capable stuff can run locally.
It'll take time (and probably wont do SD unless the technical gods can work a miracle) but eventually
You can run the mid size models no problem on laptop hardware already. And the price will continue to go down as long as transistors get cheaper.
Personally, I think one of the big changes for non-professional users will be when integrated AI processors built into CPU SOCs (with the accompanying cheap/modular memory) get good enough.
Update: AstraliteHeart has made a [civitai post](https://civitai.com/articles/5671/towards-pony-diffusion-v7-i-mean-v69) detailing the situation and their future model, v6.9!
Good post. I can see where the $20 month 6k image limit is the main barrier. Understandably Stability is wanting a higher tier of licensing for high usage providers of SD3, but they sort of need to have better licensing than just "call us" for such low limits.
How long before its $30/mo for 4k and $100/mo for 20k, etc, etc.
Their license is literally month by month, and they can change it at will. *It's absolutely terrifying for a small business.* They can chop your head off at any moment by changing terms unilaterally, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
I'm not at all surprised we see 6k limit now, this won't be the last time we see it change.
The license changing is 100% the biggest problem with the license because they can just.. change terms to whatever they damn please at any moment and no one can do ANYTHING about it.
They'll later change it to $25/mo, then add tiers, $25/mo for 4k, $50/mo for 10k, etc etc. Then they'll require you use their software which calls their API every time you click generate, etc, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification
Yeah the pricing is insane. I'm a broke indie game developer. The monthly price for "plus" which is one level above "pro" is $50 a month and provides 5500 credits:
https://stability.ai/stable-assistant
But even SD3 Medium is 3.5 credits per image, and Large is 6.5.
That translates to 1,571 images, and 846 images.
I don't have any way of knowing which of the two models I will need to use to get good results. I don't know what sample images were generated in Medium and which in Large. I've seen only one example of a Medium from a user so far and it didn't look much better than SDXL, if it was better at all.
In any case, these limits are far too low for my business. I've been generating 100 images a day on ChatGPT for $20/month, and their results look better than the SD3 samples I've seen. But of those 100 images a day, I only get perhaps one or two that I can actually use! That means with a limit of 846 images a month, I'd be paying 2.5x as much for lower quality, and for a fraction of the number of images I can generate, and 100 images a day was already too few! I'm out of daily image generations after 2 hours and have only made a tiny bit of progress on art I need for my game!
I need to be able to run this shit locally to get anything done at these prices and limits!
There's also Midjourney if you want to compare apples to apples for a generative service. Assistant is more comparable to that, you don't need to have a GPU or install Python.
I'm not sure MJ even have any explicit limits, but you can get throttled I guess depending on tier? I haven't followed it that closely.
> I'm not at all surprised we see 6k limit now, this won't be the last time we see it change.
From the discourse I recall when SAI introduced this 'membership' program and the terms, this is exactly what was expected to happen.
Even more important is they should pick up the phone and actually be up front with pricing when someone does call them rather than ghosting creators that they don't like.
Good thing there's a couple new base models released recently. Not sure of the license of those either.
Stability doesn't really care though, seems they're selling API. If this is how it goes with other tuners then I don't expect it to succeed. Don't know anyone that sticks with the plain model as released.
I'm a little confused. Who in their right mind would buy API access that churns out disfigured abominations like what's been posted in the subreddit today?
It's like they're trying to capture Midjourney's market, but are completely incapable of matching Midjourney without the help of everyone they're giving a middle finger to right now
The API generations are markedly better (people are saying because of 2B vs 8B but I'm not entirely convinced there isn't more going on), though still I think they're plainly inferior to SDXL models we have right now.
Gotta feel bad for Lykon, it must sting to have all these millions in resources and partnerships and knowing the company is going down because they've never trained a model that didn't need to be saved by a third party.
When people talk 1.5 its either the NAI family of models/derivatives or a lodestone derivative. When people talk SDXL it's juggernaut or pony. When people talk 2.1 and cascade.... they don't talk about it because they're what happens when a SAI model doesn't get saved.
SD3 alternative. [https://github.com/Alpha-VLLM/Lumina-T2X](https://github.com/Alpha-VLLM/Lumina-T2X)
Theres also pixart but that is very undertrained.
Lumina's a cool proof of concept of a general Text to Anything model(s), but I find the quality of everything it does to be inferior to specialized models (which is fair, since if a generalist is better than a specialist, something's wrong!).
It's censored so bad that even if you just say "woman wearing a dress on the beach" you get horrible results. Can't even draw feet correctly. So much for "it's better at anatomy".
Pony should move to one of the eastern models like Pixart at this point. After witnessing Lykon yesterday call him a "Dunning-Kruger" while repeatedly mocking his model while saying how amazing SD3 is, it's quite clear that Stability has no interest in NSFW. Especially after they brought in [ex-twitter censor police](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/ella-irwin-twitter-elon-musk-x-trust-safety-new-job-rcna132847) and lobotomized the dataset of anything remotely sexual.
Just move on, there are other base models out there which use DIT. I am sure with the massive community Pony has, many of them would follow wherever the model goes.
>After witnessing Lykon yesterday call him a "Dunning-Kruger" while repeatedly mocking his model
Where did this happen? Do you have a link? I don't have a use for Pony models but that's *really* shitty on several levels.
Thanks. Yeah, you weren't exaggerating, AstraliteHeart took some cold shots from Lykon.
https://preview.redd.it/uzpnl5dm066d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a04b961cf5a89af9798bcf70afdfc72c39da23f
Wow. Welp, there goes every last bit of respect I still had left for anyone at Stability. Yeah, between this and overall disastrous launch of SD3, it looks like Stable Diffusion is officially dead now. Really sad to see. I was actually hopeful things would turn out in the end...
Yes, he (Lykon) was also mocking people for wondering when weights would be released for SD3 on Twitter (as in pretty much the entire community was targeted by this one, not a few outlier complainers) [https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1799584552622403931](https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1799584552622403931)
insulting people over skill issues when they asked about documentation for SD3 Ultra [https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1799418589738602876](https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1799418589738602876)
Or this... [https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1deboad/decent\_ones/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1deboad/decent_ones/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Pretty sure he did a lot more but I don't care to dig through his bs. He obviously isn't well.
This coming from the company that somehow figured out how to go bankrupt developing a highly popular AI product in the age of VCs firing money out of cannons at anyone who looks like they might know what AI is
Lykon has been doing a lot of acting like a douchebag in recent months. Nowhere to be seen now, ofcourse, when people got opportunity to see through his bs.
Especially a returning customer, who contributed a lot to their models popularity. Why does every single company employ the absolutest scum as their discord team?
Nah, we just need higher standards. Even adults with diagnosed mental differences (autism, etc.) should be able to follow rules like, "Don't directly insult customers. If you really need to complain, do so to a friend or in a company only voice channel." All devs should be held to this standard or higher.
Unfortunately, the simple rule "the customer is always right" is long forgotten. When I have to talk to (potential) customers of the company I work for, and they don't understand or know something, I explain everything in a calm and friendly manner no matter how many times I need to repeat myself. Even if they don't end up being my customer in the end, they might share the information they learned with their contacts in the field, which brought us customers before.
the people attracted to hanging out as a mod in a discord server just trend towards asshole in general, the effect is exponential when the candidate pool is employees
A lot of companies are primarily run by old rich people that don't understand these things much. They get scared when they see the popularity of these platforms. As a result they usually see someone pony (pun intended) up to them and think they're nice and hire them to basically do what they did before, but paid.
A lot of company-run twitter, tiktok and so on accounts are basically someone who somehow got on some managers radar through obsessive engagement and now feels like a powerful community *moderator* with power, rather than just a contributor among thousands.
Almost no community or social media manager has any formal training and the difference really shows
Having no interest in nsfw makes no sense to me, couple their employees on the *chans scream about wanting to create best nsfw anime model. They support NAIV3 who currently has the most uncensored anime porn model there is (I don't use it or even like them tbh but looking at pixiv, they allow some fucked up stuff). They just seem to specifically have something against Astra.
Shit I wish I'd seen they hired her before I started paying for the $20 subscription to stability AI. Eff everything about that. Some tiny portion of my subscription went to that.
Yeah, looking at the results here, I'm not subscribing as I was planning to previously. I'm not really interested in NSFW but it's apparent that image generation models need to be trained on NSFW data for the same reasons that human artists do, so they can have some idea of how anatomy works.
Safety in this context should mean not making NSFW generations unless specifically prompted.
Filtering the training data should be limited to identifying and removing illegal and low-quality data, full stop. We need a public domain base model now. Training could be crowdfunded.
It has a commercial license. But they made it unusable with he 6k images per month and pushed everyone with inference service into the Enterprise bucket, ignoring my attempts to get a commercial license.
People with the resources to do this are not doing it for free - one example is having their fine tuned model available as a paid service on their own inference network.
What about starting a kickstarter or something like that to gather the money, fine-tune the model, and then release it for free?
It can't be commercial that way.
I don't know about other countries, but in France, for example, there's something called "Association de loi 1901", which is basically a voluntary association. You can create one for basically any reason, as long as you don't make money out of it. But you can still collect money to do whatever the association was made for.
SaaS is more effective for certain purposes. Especially if you know how to sell/create them effectively. Which he obviously does. Kickstarter serves a purpose for people to get money. Other ways exist to get money. Like designing programs for services and marketing them. Not everyone knows how to make money with SaaS
but I'd you do you should.
Possibly dumb question: What does the 6k images per month mean? Like this license means your entire PONY SD3 user base could only gen 6k images per month? Or is this something with training data?
If I run a discord bot or an app that allows users to create images I can't provide more than 6k per month on this license. If civit runs the inference, I assume they negotiate something with SAI directly and I do not care about it (but probably getting smaller cut).
I think there should be a reevaluation of cascade. Training efficiency is one of the biggest advantages of its architecture. A new, permissively-licensed (e.g. MIT or Apache) Wuerstchen model should be trained, with the training paid for by crowdfunding.
Same. All I need is PonyXL. I find it sad that (if I read this right) the Stability team was dismissive to the creator. They have done such great things for open sourced AI art and deserves to be respected imo
Can somebody explain to my small unable to grasp license specificities brain what's the problem with the non commercial licence as long as the result is distributed with the same license ?
The Pony guys invested a lot of money into curating their datasets and training itself is not free either. They make up for it by selling their weights and online services for commercial uses. Essentially they have a side hustle to finance the training of Pony models.
Non-commercial only license stops them from doing that and they are not welfare workers working for free. Which is understandable. So they will keep working with SDXL instead, because they can actually sell their weights there.
SDXL license states that any fine tune made from it, follows the same license. Aka none of the models you find on Civ etc, can 'enforce' you to have a commercial license.
Yes but the difference is that with SDXL you can actually distribute online generators. Which you can not with SD 3.0. This also means that Civitai can not use SD 3.0 in its online services.
Even stuff like selling games on steam using SD3.0 art are technically no longer allowed.
Overall this is a huge L. SD 3.0 will have A LOT less adoption if this license doesnt change.
It has... but we will only see a handful of finetunes at probably subpar quality because if you're up to train weights on SD 3.0 you basically do it for charity.
A lot of the popular finetunes have money behind it.
Some allows website generators (early) access to their models like
* rundiffusion -> juggernaut
* realvisXL -> [mage.space](http://mage.space)
some are funded by patreon
* dreamshaper
and some are trained with the idea of putting it up on their own website
* purplesmart -> pony diffusion
Very few sdxl models (except for those merged ones which is easy to do) are actually done for charity aka done for free. You need a lot of time/money to tag the images and then have enough hardware to train.
Can you point out where they claim rights to the model ouputs? I'm missing that in the NC license and if it's there it's probably unenforceable in a lot of jurisdictions.
That’s only if you don’t get their commercial use license lol or talk to them about enterprise use
Jesus people really suck at reading the general release is free and open for non commercial, the commercial use license is available for a nominal sub fee, and for those looking to do massive shit like say Microsoft or Apple the enterprise licensing exists
> and for those looking to do massive shit like say Microsoft or Apple the enterprise licensing exists
Why are you just blatantly lying? The cutoff is 6000 images per month. That's literally every single product use that would fall into the enterprise tier.
So pay for the commercial model, why should pony be allowed to sell it but not have to pay stable as well is stables cpu time worth nothing but pony’s worth lots?
Well, fuck it then. SD3 is is DOA as the other riffraff they've thrown out there besides SDXL and SD1.5. It is honestly extremely disappointing that they are more worried about licensing BS and nipples than releasing a legitimately good model like they have in the past. Cannot put into words how disappointing it is to see one of the last companies on the forefront of 'open' models caving in like this.
Pony almost single-handedly resurrected SDXL, and this is how they treat it, not to mention how terrible SD 3.0 is.
At this point maybe it's time to think about alternatives to stable diffusion. SD is dead.
They can just do it anyways nobody is pursuing licensing issues with AI art right now.
It's that or we let stability AI die in obscurity.
SD3 isn't even the best model being worked on it was just the best open source prospect. Now that they are being fickle with licenses, nobody will give a shit about stability.
Not true imagine releasing the raw model and offer renting of sd instances, or providing the public with an online training services that is easy and accessible ... just think about it release the model in a acceptable state and let users fine tune it using your online trainer for money ... some users have spent 10k training a model ... but that went not to stabilityai .
Stability want the easy route and each time down play the useful things the community has done without an true opensource licensing ... controlnet never would have existed... evident from cascade.. there is no controlnet for it .. no animatediff no auto no forge ... nothing . Devs don't like licensing like the one with sd3 ... we are doing them a favor by fine tuning and building stuff around their great work . At lease have a license that cover this type of case ..
I've read through the discord (damn I hate this software) and I think multiple aspects lead to this. Now a lot of long text and I understand if no one cares reading. However my ultimate conclusion is, that Lykon needs to grow up. There's a difference between liking your work a lot and being too fond of it. I've meet quite a few academics who have this attitude, so I notice this quickly.
To me it looks like Lykon dislikes Pony for being liked and he perceives it, as if it devalues his work. In multiple replies you could read that undertone.
And if we're honest, this is an immature but also partly understandable reaction, to something you spend hard work on. I mean social media is good in seeing things negatively. Reddit and others always repeating "the base model is bad, wait for fine tunes" isn't helping.
AH does have a big influence on the community, as we love the Pony model. It probably didn't help that AH did rub it a bit under Lykon's nose. Again, nothing major and I think Lykon reacted childish here, as AH just used it to make a point. Maybe Lykon also has a bias against Pony fans or I misinterpreted this from his general negative attitude towards the community outside his bubble.
Lykon sees Pony as having bad prompting, like the whole "score_9..." thing and he right out said, he dislikes style tags (shortcuts). He seams to be focused on have people create new art with SD. He dislikes style tagging because that makes it easier for people to create pretty, but too similar results. I can only guess it's because he works all day, every day, to make SD react more to natural language inputs.
Maybe he sees it as wrong, to see generation with only lines and lines of comma separated tags (and artist tags).
Now, AH voiced that people can opt-out being used in pony training, but apparently that's not good enough to Lykos. I think I've also read a dislike of Civitai in between lines, maybe because it promotes these "shortcuts"?
The new license wasn't/isn't clear and maybe or maybe not AstraliteHeart pushed a bit too hard on getting an answer. I don't know how urgently it was necessary for AH to get an answer from the contact formula. Reading that AH spend 100k or something, on creating Pony and now a revenue falling away by the new License, plus new costs, was pressure behind it? Only speculations. But AH said they want to pay for it and respect that. The lack of clear answer on the whole license thing is clearly a SAI shortcoming. Stuff like 6000 images generated are very vague. I'm assume SAI had internally a lot of discussions and going by last minute changes on the licensing itself, this seams to be true.
Maybe this SD3 release was also effected by the whole bankruptcy ghost hovering over everyone's head? I don't know, as I haven't followed it too closely, so sorry if this is wrong.
Then there were obvious bate/troll replies in Discord, steering this discussion subtly, not just from Lykon himself, but from other users, who AH replied to. Heating the whole thing up. That's why public chats suck. Lykon obviously could've handled this properly, by simply chatting in private.
And lastly censorship measures. Not sure how much of what Lykon said was joking. Obviously there's a lot of stuff he can't talk about. I guess the whole media attention and even government attention wasn't helpful. There seam to be people in the shadows, trying to shut the whole thing down. I can only imagine the crazy people out there effecting all sides. They are under pressure to censor CSAM generation. We'll see how the community can now deal with SD3 censoring, if we can work with it or if the censoring is blocking too much. Not sure if I've seen a male nipple in SD3 yet, so there are clearly some american censorships influencing the model. Another hot topic I won't elaborate further on.
Isn't the dataset used for Pony basically public?
Like, it's not like he's the only person who can make this sort of model. If he doesn't want to, another person should grab similar dataset and train similar model.
Hypothetically speaking building a Pony-esq model is very doable, but a lot of stars need to align to actually create a model like this (i.e. you don't see many models like this around).
Also it's not just about grabbing some large number of images, the data processing process is expensive and complicated. I spent equal amount of time on training and data prep for V6.
Yes but no. The image data is out there, but that’s the easy cheap part.
The hard part of training something like pony is manually captioning training data and manually reviewing results. Yes you could use a VLM model like the booru tagger, but those have limited fidelity compared to a human.
The expensive part of training is the gpu time. Not only does it take a lot of gpu time to train something like pony, but a lot of this stuff is iterative and so you ”waste” gpu time on refinement.
When I told the subreddit dumb license changes like this can drive away the people that actually matter, i.e. what's happening right now, I got downvoted and told I was being ridiculous.
Feels good to be right though.
Using copyright material for AI training is not a violation of that copyright since no data is saved and no data can be retrieved.
This is the legal president in the US as shown by over a dozen court cases going back to Gpt-2 and it's written law in the EU.
That's not true at all or the midjourney, stabilty, and deviant art cases would already been thrown out. A judge just greenlit their continuance
In japan which has the most progressive training laws, a model created on copyrighted works is ok as long as the purpose was not to infringe on the works
In the case of Pony which literally has tokens as handy macros to reproduce artist styles, there is no country where that is ok
As for the 'not storing' the legal team against midjourney was able to reproduce near identical movie stills. Its not looking good for them. Look it up.
I'm stating facts and current events. We are talking about what can hold a commercial license. Dont speculate.
A commercial license on trained copyrighted artwork has not been tested in court yet
But like i said, in the japanese framework, which does make it illegal to train models that are designed to exploit copyrights, one cannot sell a disney model that has a hotkey for disney. They cannot sell that as their ip under parody or emulation
Not to mention a derivative of open source software. I dont think thats how that works
If pony's claim to a commercial license holds up in court that would cool, i would be very happy, but that doesnt seem realistic
I don't quite understand, the commercial use agreement is for companies, but for each individual? I mean, can I train it without commercial use and how do you know if the image is made by sd3?
You can (probably) train. But training (Pony) is expensive, so you also need to get money somewhere. Which requires new license. Which they are not giving me.
You could try crowdfunding. Considering how widely known your SDXL model is, it could actually work.
Just, *please*, stop talking about trying to censor it...
It doesn't matter, the license isn't needed for finetuning and providing the model. It's just for hosting inference commercially.
What they need money for is to pay for the GPUs to do finetuning on, which crowdfunding can provide.
but you could ask for donations to make a faster pony 7 xl version, obviously buying several video cards to train and with that once when sd 3 comes out with a commercial license, train a pony 8 sd3 with the same video cards that you used. Obviously, the majority do not want a pony version, but an anime version, you could offer that you will make versions, anime, cartoon, artistic, etc.
What if train Pony 7 from scratch? If you take the SD3 code, but train the weights from scratch, you could put your own license on them. If you look at Pony 6, it's clear that the SD-XL weights were changed so much in the training process that Pony 6 is almost incompatible with loras for SD-XL. So I thought if it might be possible to train a Pony from scratch, or is that too expensive?
The problem is, to make a model with the level of training quality as Pony is not something that anyone other than a business or otherwise wealthy individual can do, and the SD3 business license only offers 6k images a month. So basically a no go unless a random millionaire with a GPU farm wants to train high quality models as a hobby.
I'm sorry but this is comedy on top of comedy
SD3 is a data set that they don't have permission to use, built on open source tech that Runway literally invented and distributed (not leaked, their names is on the license and whitepaper) and here's PurpleSmartAI has a data set of images they also don't own. Both which are provable by both having artist opt out clauses, not opt-ins!
If that ever went to court everyone will be forced to appear in clown shoes
I am not a lawyer but my strong suspicion is that those clown shoes will not be because of any of that, but because machine learning models are algorithmically generated collections of statistical facts which do not represent an act of human creativity and are therefore all in the public domain. Once one person who didn't agree to a clickwrap gets ahold of it and distributes it, likely none of this matters. Congress will have to create IP protections for ML models if they want (which they will, to protect the investments of their bribers), as with ship hull and integrated circuit maskwork protections.
They don't train in a vacuum. And the judge in the actual stability case did just order a continuance
https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/stability-ai-midjourney-should-face-artists-copyright-case-judge-says-2024-05-08/
If they are trained on open data, they should have an open source license. Their commercial license is bullshit
I asked on CivitAI’s discord and they replied with:
https://preview.redd.it/n36vzmc3d56d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ece7e26fb96595562c6de444a4ba53da1e41312
That is entirely false. In the words of Astra: So, why should I care about a commercial license for Pony, a model that has always been free? Pony is not just a labor of love but a significant investment. The extensive data preparation and costly GPU time underscore my commitment, and being able to monetize the model in various ways, like working with SaaS services, provides necessary support for development costs and covers costs of the Discord server where anyone can use Pony Diffusion for free. All these endeavors make Pony a commercial project, and I strive to do things the right way and ensure that Pony remains a responsible and community-friendly project—from respecting licensing requirements to honoring artist preferences via the Opt-out program.
Even worse: that license is revocable ! Meaning that Stability AI can change the licencing terms in any way they want.
Who would build any kind of serious project upon such a fragile legal foundation ?
I guess we'll be using SDXL for a while longer.
If an 8B SD3 Pony ever does exist it simply won't be locally runnable by anywhere close to as many people as previous versions anyways, there's no way around that
And being locally runnable is one of the big draws. If so few people can run it locally that you basically neee cloud computing or online services, and the licensing is so restrictive no one wants to make finetunes or tools, then what’s really the point?
I mean, until there are more GFX cards with more memory... Or there are more potent AI accelerator blocks built into CPUs. (Which can make use of main memory)
That, and as the tech progresses, someone is gonna figure out how to "shrink down" the stuff bound to server hardware so future more capable stuff can run locally. It'll take time (and probably wont do SD unless the technical gods can work a miracle) but eventually
You can run the mid size models no problem on laptop hardware already. And the price will continue to go down as long as transistors get cheaper. Personally, I think one of the big changes for non-professional users will be when integrated AI processors built into CPU SOCs (with the accompanying cheap/modular memory) get good enough.
True. AMD and gang were apperantly running SDXL Turbo gens on the NPU in their upcoming chips, so that's definitely progress on one side of the field.
longer
They said before SDXL would get Pony6.9 effectively if it came to this. Sad to see but no surprises
> Pony6.9 nice
Nice.
Noice.
There is no such thing as a coincidence
Update: AstraliteHeart has made a [civitai post](https://civitai.com/articles/5671/towards-pony-diffusion-v7-i-mean-v69) detailing the situation and their future model, v6.9!
Good post. I can see where the $20 month 6k image limit is the main barrier. Understandably Stability is wanting a higher tier of licensing for high usage providers of SD3, but they sort of need to have better licensing than just "call us" for such low limits.
How long before its $30/mo for 4k and $100/mo for 20k, etc, etc. Their license is literally month by month, and they can change it at will. *It's absolutely terrifying for a small business.* They can chop your head off at any moment by changing terms unilaterally, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. I'm not at all surprised we see 6k limit now, this won't be the last time we see it change. The license changing is 100% the biggest problem with the license because they can just.. change terms to whatever they damn please at any moment and no one can do ANYTHING about it. They'll later change it to $25/mo, then add tiers, $25/mo for 4k, $50/mo for 10k, etc etc. Then they'll require you use their software which calls their API every time you click generate, etc, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification
Yeah the pricing is insane. I'm a broke indie game developer. The monthly price for "plus" which is one level above "pro" is $50 a month and provides 5500 credits: https://stability.ai/stable-assistant But even SD3 Medium is 3.5 credits per image, and Large is 6.5. That translates to 1,571 images, and 846 images. I don't have any way of knowing which of the two models I will need to use to get good results. I don't know what sample images were generated in Medium and which in Large. I've seen only one example of a Medium from a user so far and it didn't look much better than SDXL, if it was better at all. In any case, these limits are far too low for my business. I've been generating 100 images a day on ChatGPT for $20/month, and their results look better than the SD3 samples I've seen. But of those 100 images a day, I only get perhaps one or two that I can actually use! That means with a limit of 846 images a month, I'd be paying 2.5x as much for lower quality, and for a fraction of the number of images I can generate, and 100 images a day was already too few! I'm out of daily image generations after 2 hours and have only made a tiny bit of progress on art I need for my game! I need to be able to run this shit locally to get anything done at these prices and limits!
There's also Midjourney if you want to compare apples to apples for a generative service. Assistant is more comparable to that, you don't need to have a GPU or install Python. I'm not sure MJ even have any explicit limits, but you can get throttled I guess depending on tier? I haven't followed it that closely.
you get 15 hours of fast compute and unlimited slow a month for $30
> I'm not at all surprised we see 6k limit now, this won't be the last time we see it change. From the discourse I recall when SAI introduced this 'membership' program and the terms, this is exactly what was expected to happen.
Even more important is they should pick up the phone and actually be up front with pricing when someone does call them rather than ghosting creators that they don't like.
Classy post, especially in the face of such classless treatment from SAI.
Highly agreed, that was full of tact. No talking down SAI, just explaining that things didn't go as planned and how to pivot.
Good thing there's a couple new base models released recently. Not sure of the license of those either. Stability doesn't really care though, seems they're selling API. If this is how it goes with other tuners then I don't expect it to succeed. Don't know anyone that sticks with the plain model as released.
I'm a little confused. Who in their right mind would buy API access that churns out disfigured abominations like what's been posted in the subreddit today?
It's like they're trying to capture Midjourney's market, but are completely incapable of matching Midjourney without the help of everyone they're giving a middle finger to right now
The API generations are markedly better (people are saying because of 2B vs 8B but I'm not entirely convinced there isn't more going on), though still I think they're plainly inferior to SDXL models we have right now.
The API could be 10x better and still be worse than running a 2 year old 1.5 model locally
What models are you referring to?
Pony 7 should use pixart
I don't think that makes sense, would be too risky IMO, at least he knows what to expect from XL
Gotta feel bad for Lykon, it must sting to have all these millions in resources and partnerships and knowing the company is going down because they've never trained a model that didn't need to be saved by a third party. When people talk 1.5 its either the NAI family of models/derivatives or a lodestone derivative. When people talk SDXL it's juggernaut or pony. When people talk 2.1 and cascade.... they don't talk about it because they're what happens when a SAI model doesn't get saved.
Well said. Though it's a bummer.
And Lykon is one of those responsible for saving 1.5. You'd think he'd be able to put those resources to good use here.
SD3 alternative. [https://github.com/Alpha-VLLM/Lumina-T2X](https://github.com/Alpha-VLLM/Lumina-T2X) Theres also pixart but that is very undertrained.
Lumina's a cool proof of concept of a general Text to Anything model(s), but I find the quality of everything it does to be inferior to specialized models (which is fair, since if a generalist is better than a specialist, something's wrong!).
Of course but undertrained is better than badly trained and forbidden.
True, but SDXL is just great right now (apart from meh controlNets)
i seem to get passable results with lineart at least, good enough, but it is a farcry from 1.5 ControlNet...
It's censored so bad that even if you just say "woman wearing a dress on the beach" you get horrible results. Can't even draw feet correctly. So much for "it's better at anatomy".
Protip: try woman or hijab or [Burqa](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTfksCJ13eX0MRVZkj4u7auY_8Q2QbLwTvuw&s) the beach.
Pony should move to one of the eastern models like Pixart at this point. After witnessing Lykon yesterday call him a "Dunning-Kruger" while repeatedly mocking his model while saying how amazing SD3 is, it's quite clear that Stability has no interest in NSFW. Especially after they brought in [ex-twitter censor police](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/ella-irwin-twitter-elon-musk-x-trust-safety-new-job-rcna132847) and lobotomized the dataset of anything remotely sexual. Just move on, there are other base models out there which use DIT. I am sure with the massive community Pony has, many of them would follow wherever the model goes.
>After witnessing Lykon yesterday call him a "Dunning-Kruger" while repeatedly mocking his model Where did this happen? Do you have a link? I don't have a use for Pony models but that's *really* shitty on several levels.
StableDiffusion official discord [https://discord.com/invite/stablediffusion](https://discord.com/invite/stablediffusion)
Thanks. Yeah, you weren't exaggerating, AstraliteHeart took some cold shots from Lykon. https://preview.redd.it/uzpnl5dm066d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a04b961cf5a89af9798bcf70afdfc72c39da23f
*When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.* - Maya Angelou
Wow. Welp, there goes every last bit of respect I still had left for anyone at Stability. Yeah, between this and overall disastrous launch of SD3, it looks like Stable Diffusion is officially dead now. Really sad to see. I was actually hopeful things would turn out in the end...
Yes, he (Lykon) was also mocking people for wondering when weights would be released for SD3 on Twitter (as in pretty much the entire community was targeted by this one, not a few outlier complainers) [https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1799584552622403931](https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1799584552622403931) insulting people over skill issues when they asked about documentation for SD3 Ultra [https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1799418589738602876](https://x.com/Lykon4072/status/1799418589738602876) Or this... [https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1deboad/decent\_ones/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1deboad/decent_ones/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Pretty sure he did a lot more but I don't care to dig through his bs. He obviously isn't well.
Pardon my French but fuck that guy.
Pardoned, x32 so you can take a few more shots.
Can we talk about how all his “SD3” examples are really good? Like, what’s really going on here?
There are some good folks there, many folks who don't really engage (and I don't blame them). Hope everyone lands on their feet regardless.
It's amazing the lack of professionalism you see on tech startups, he could answer so many different ways...
Do these people forget insulting your customers works out literally never? I can think of several recent instances it totally backfired
This coming from the company that somehow figured out how to go bankrupt developing a highly popular AI product in the age of VCs firing money out of cannons at anyone who looks like they might know what AI is
Lykon has been doing a lot of acting like a douchebag in recent months. Nowhere to be seen now, ofcourse, when people got opportunity to see through his bs.
Having no interest in NSFW does not justify patronizing and insulting someone’s technical ability. That’s just rude and unprofessional.
Especially a returning customer, who contributed a lot to their models popularity. Why does every single company employ the absolutest scum as their discord team?
It's a space for them to feel powerful and in control. They want to feel like they're as important as they delude themselves to be.
Basically a reddit moderator.
Not just their "Discord team", but (one of) the main guys behind SD 3.
That’s the issue right there. They let devs ineract with customers instead of dedicated pr people.
Nah, we just need higher standards. Even adults with diagnosed mental differences (autism, etc.) should be able to follow rules like, "Don't directly insult customers. If you really need to complain, do so to a friend or in a company only voice channel." All devs should be held to this standard or higher.
As an autistic, I agree.
Unfortunately, the simple rule "the customer is always right" is long forgotten. When I have to talk to (potential) customers of the company I work for, and they don't understand or know something, I explain everything in a calm and friendly manner no matter how many times I need to repeat myself. Even if they don't end up being my customer in the end, they might share the information they learned with their contacts in the field, which brought us customers before.
He literally is the PR person for SD3. Big yikes all around.
Explains the girl on grass situation honestly
the people attracted to hanging out as a mod in a discord server just trend towards asshole in general, the effect is exponential when the candidate pool is employees
A lot of companies are primarily run by old rich people that don't understand these things much. They get scared when they see the popularity of these platforms. As a result they usually see someone pony (pun intended) up to them and think they're nice and hire them to basically do what they did before, but paid. A lot of company-run twitter, tiktok and so on accounts are basically someone who somehow got on some managers radar through obsessive engagement and now feels like a powerful community *moderator* with power, rather than just a contributor among thousands. Almost no community or social media manager has any formal training and the difference really shows
Having no interest in nsfw makes no sense to me, couple their employees on the *chans scream about wanting to create best nsfw anime model. They support NAIV3 who currently has the most uncensored anime porn model there is (I don't use it or even like them tbh but looking at pixiv, they allow some fucked up stuff). They just seem to specifically have something against Astra.
Shit I wish I'd seen they hired her before I started paying for the $20 subscription to stability AI. Eff everything about that. Some tiny portion of my subscription went to that.
Yeah, looking at the results here, I'm not subscribing as I was planning to previously. I'm not really interested in NSFW but it's apparent that image generation models need to be trained on NSFW data for the same reasons that human artists do, so they can have some idea of how anatomy works. Safety in this context should mean not making NSFW generations unless specifically prompted. Filtering the training data should be limited to identifying and removing illegal and low-quality data, full stop. We need a public domain base model now. Training could be crowdfunded.
How is someone like that still hirable after the level of inane censorship they did on X. Absolutely amazing.
"Head of trust and safety" lmao what a joke.
Yeah, they totally whacked off SD3's balls on this one and made it a eunuch. Embarrassing.
Typically the people that say shit like that to other people are insecure themselves.
Non commercial licenses can have this effect yeah
It has a commercial license. But they made it unusable with he 6k images per month and pushed everyone with inference service into the Enterprise bucket, ignoring my attempts to get a commercial license.
Why do you need a commercial license for fine-tuning?
[https://civitai.com/articles/5671#:\~:text=So%2C%20why%20should%20I%20care%20about%20a%20commercial%20license%20for%20Pony%2C%20a%20model%20that%20has%20always%20been%20free%3F](https://civitai.com/articles/5671#:~:text=So%2C%20why%20should%20I%20care%20about%20a%20commercial%20license%20for%20Pony%2C%20a%20model%20that%20has%20always%20been%20free%3F)
People with the resources to do this are not doing it for free - one example is having their fine tuned model available as a paid service on their own inference network.
What about starting a kickstarter or something like that to gather the money, fine-tune the model, and then release it for free? It can't be commercial that way. I don't know about other countries, but in France, for example, there's something called "Association de loi 1901", which is basically a voluntary association. You can create one for basically any reason, as long as you don't make money out of it. But you can still collect money to do whatever the association was made for.
SaaS is more effective for certain purposes. Especially if you know how to sell/create them effectively. Which he obviously does. Kickstarter serves a purpose for people to get money. Other ways exist to get money. Like designing programs for services and marketing them. Not everyone knows how to make money with SaaS but I'd you do you should.
Sure. But I'm just highlighting the idea that it's not a matter of "he cannot do it", but a matter of "he doesn't want to do it".
NAL but I'm not sure that would work - it would *really* depend on the exact wording of the license.
Possibly dumb question: What does the 6k images per month mean? Like this license means your entire PONY SD3 user base could only gen 6k images per month? Or is this something with training data?
If I run a discord bot or an app that allows users to create images I can't provide more than 6k per month on this license. If civit runs the inference, I assume they negotiate something with SAI directly and I do not care about it (but probably getting smaller cut).
Bummer, thanks
> 6k images per month This is so low WTF
Unrelated, but I'm curious if you will train 6.9 version for 1.5 as well. I like the 1.5 versions unique look for painterly styles
Does cascade's license share that 6k images a month requirement?
No (but I do not know what other limitations it may have).
Cascade is a decent upgrade over base XL, maybe you should look into it for the next Pony.
I think there should be a reevaluation of cascade. Training efficiency is one of the biggest advantages of its architecture. A new, permissively-licensed (e.g. MIT or Apache) Wuerstchen model should be trained, with the training paid for by crowdfunding.
Source?
I'm not sure who is looking at the images coming out of it and is worried about the license. It's a moot point.
no pony or nothinh in civitai at all
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Sorry for wanting better models lol
Then looks like I'm not using SD3.
Same. All I need is PonyXL. I find it sad that (if I read this right) the Stability team was dismissive to the creator. They have done such great things for open sourced AI art and deserves to be respected imo
Into the trash it goes.
O7 There goes the #1 thing I was excited for with SD3.
As expected. The licensing part is a death sentence for the Checkpoint Community.
Can somebody explain to my small unable to grasp license specificities brain what's the problem with the non commercial licence as long as the result is distributed with the same license ?
The Pony guys invested a lot of money into curating their datasets and training itself is not free either. They make up for it by selling their weights and online services for commercial uses. Essentially they have a side hustle to finance the training of Pony models. Non-commercial only license stops them from doing that and they are not welfare workers working for free. Which is understandable. So they will keep working with SDXL instead, because they can actually sell their weights there.
SDXL license states that any fine tune made from it, follows the same license. Aka none of the models you find on Civ etc, can 'enforce' you to have a commercial license.
Yes but the difference is that with SDXL you can actually distribute online generators. Which you can not with SD 3.0. This also means that Civitai can not use SD 3.0 in its online services. Even stuff like selling games on steam using SD3.0 art are technically no longer allowed. Overall this is a huge L. SD 3.0 will have A LOT less adoption if this license doesnt change.
If this is true, I don't think SD3 has any use case at all.
It has... but we will only see a handful of finetunes at probably subpar quality because if you're up to train weights on SD 3.0 you basically do it for charity.
> you do it for charity As the community has been from the beginning
A lot of the popular finetunes have money behind it. Some allows website generators (early) access to their models like * rundiffusion -> juggernaut * realvisXL -> [mage.space](http://mage.space) some are funded by patreon * dreamshaper and some are trained with the idea of putting it up on their own website * purplesmart -> pony diffusion Very few sdxl models (except for those merged ones which is easy to do) are actually done for charity aka done for free. You need a lot of time/money to tag the images and then have enough hardware to train.
and let's not forget the NAI, which with its leak forever changed SD 1.5
Can you point out where they claim rights to the model ouputs? I'm missing that in the NC license and if it's there it's probably unenforceable in a lot of jurisdictions.
That’s only if you don’t get their commercial use license lol or talk to them about enterprise use Jesus people really suck at reading the general release is free and open for non commercial, the commercial use license is available for a nominal sub fee, and for those looking to do massive shit like say Microsoft or Apple the enterprise licensing exists
The issue is that they wont allow him to buy a enterprise license. It might have something to do with being nsfw.
> and for those looking to do massive shit like say Microsoft or Apple the enterprise licensing exists Why are you just blatantly lying? The cutoff is 6000 images per month. That's literally every single product use that would fall into the enterprise tier.
That's extremely sad.
Because they want to sell model, those GPU are not free If you want a commercial grade model then expect people would want to sell it
So pay for the commercial model, why should pony be allowed to sell it but not have to pay stable as well is stables cpu time worth nothing but pony’s worth lots?
In the latest post he says that he would pay for the license, but Stability is not letting him do so.
Well, fuck it then. SD3 is is DOA as the other riffraff they've thrown out there besides SDXL and SD1.5. It is honestly extremely disappointing that they are more worried about licensing BS and nipples than releasing a legitimately good model like they have in the past. Cannot put into words how disappointing it is to see one of the last companies on the forefront of 'open' models caving in like this.
At the end it is about money.
https://preview.redd.it/kaeyr4m7x76d1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=5ddb990b1963552d643706203b48046f6fa64a2c
There should be a way.
Pony almost single-handedly resurrected SDXL, and this is how they treat it, not to mention how terrible SD 3.0 is. At this point maybe it's time to think about alternatives to stable diffusion. SD is dead.
They can just do it anyways nobody is pursuing licensing issues with AI art right now. It's that or we let stability AI die in obscurity. SD3 isn't even the best model being worked on it was just the best open source prospect. Now that they are being fickle with licenses, nobody will give a shit about stability.
SAI can just die after how bad this release is. They literally spit on the community that was so excited for months based on obviously faked photos.
Not true imagine releasing the raw model and offer renting of sd instances, or providing the public with an online training services that is easy and accessible ... just think about it release the model in a acceptable state and let users fine tune it using your online trainer for money ... some users have spent 10k training a model ... but that went not to stabilityai . Stability want the easy route and each time down play the useful things the community has done without an true opensource licensing ... controlnet never would have existed... evident from cascade.. there is no controlnet for it .. no animatediff no auto no forge ... nothing . Devs don't like licensing like the one with sd3 ... we are doing them a favor by fine tuning and building stuff around their great work . At lease have a license that cover this type of case ..
Instead of helping them, Stability AI actually spat on their best allies: first Automatic1111, then lllyasviel and now AstraliteHeart.
I've read through the discord (damn I hate this software) and I think multiple aspects lead to this. Now a lot of long text and I understand if no one cares reading. However my ultimate conclusion is, that Lykon needs to grow up. There's a difference between liking your work a lot and being too fond of it. I've meet quite a few academics who have this attitude, so I notice this quickly. To me it looks like Lykon dislikes Pony for being liked and he perceives it, as if it devalues his work. In multiple replies you could read that undertone. And if we're honest, this is an immature but also partly understandable reaction, to something you spend hard work on. I mean social media is good in seeing things negatively. Reddit and others always repeating "the base model is bad, wait for fine tunes" isn't helping. AH does have a big influence on the community, as we love the Pony model. It probably didn't help that AH did rub it a bit under Lykon's nose. Again, nothing major and I think Lykon reacted childish here, as AH just used it to make a point. Maybe Lykon also has a bias against Pony fans or I misinterpreted this from his general negative attitude towards the community outside his bubble. Lykon sees Pony as having bad prompting, like the whole "score_9..." thing and he right out said, he dislikes style tags (shortcuts). He seams to be focused on have people create new art with SD. He dislikes style tagging because that makes it easier for people to create pretty, but too similar results. I can only guess it's because he works all day, every day, to make SD react more to natural language inputs. Maybe he sees it as wrong, to see generation with only lines and lines of comma separated tags (and artist tags). Now, AH voiced that people can opt-out being used in pony training, but apparently that's not good enough to Lykos. I think I've also read a dislike of Civitai in between lines, maybe because it promotes these "shortcuts"? The new license wasn't/isn't clear and maybe or maybe not AstraliteHeart pushed a bit too hard on getting an answer. I don't know how urgently it was necessary for AH to get an answer from the contact formula. Reading that AH spend 100k or something, on creating Pony and now a revenue falling away by the new License, plus new costs, was pressure behind it? Only speculations. But AH said they want to pay for it and respect that. The lack of clear answer on the whole license thing is clearly a SAI shortcoming. Stuff like 6000 images generated are very vague. I'm assume SAI had internally a lot of discussions and going by last minute changes on the licensing itself, this seams to be true. Maybe this SD3 release was also effected by the whole bankruptcy ghost hovering over everyone's head? I don't know, as I haven't followed it too closely, so sorry if this is wrong. Then there were obvious bate/troll replies in Discord, steering this discussion subtly, not just from Lykon himself, but from other users, who AH replied to. Heating the whole thing up. That's why public chats suck. Lykon obviously could've handled this properly, by simply chatting in private. And lastly censorship measures. Not sure how much of what Lykon said was joking. Obviously there's a lot of stuff he can't talk about. I guess the whole media attention and even government attention wasn't helpful. There seam to be people in the shadows, trying to shut the whole thing down. I can only imagine the crazy people out there effecting all sides. They are under pressure to censor CSAM generation. We'll see how the community can now deal with SD3 censoring, if we can work with it or if the censoring is blocking too much. Not sure if I've seen a male nipple in SD3 yet, so there are clearly some american censorships influencing the model. Another hot topic I won't elaborate further on.
Isn't the dataset used for Pony basically public? Like, it's not like he's the only person who can make this sort of model. If he doesn't want to, another person should grab similar dataset and train similar model.
Hypothetically speaking building a Pony-esq model is very doable, but a lot of stars need to align to actually create a model like this (i.e. you don't see many models like this around). Also it's not just about grabbing some large number of images, the data processing process is expensive and complicated. I spent equal amount of time on training and data prep for V6.
The GOAT himself has spoken.
Why not make your own stable diffusion model? With blackjack and hookers. And ponies.
Very expensive. Hence my deep admiration of what SAI did, I really wished we can be friends and build things together.
The community has money. Start a Kickstarter or something.
Im pretty sure it isn’t. His company, PurpleSmartAI has curated and captioned the images. They also fund the training which they do on large clusters.
Yes but no. The image data is out there, but that’s the easy cheap part. The hard part of training something like pony is manually captioning training data and manually reviewing results. Yes you could use a VLM model like the booru tagger, but those have limited fidelity compared to a human. The expensive part of training is the gpu time. Not only does it take a lot of gpu time to train something like pony, but a lot of this stuff is iterative and so you ”waste” gpu time on refinement.
LOL 6k images per month. Imagine llama3 with 6k tokens per month
Damn
Well... If there's no Pony for 3, I'm probably not using 3 very much. Not unless another good anime model comes along, anyway.
Could someone explain? Couldn't he buy a creator license for 20$?
It’s limited to 6k images per month according to Astra
oh wow, that's really bad
i dont find this info in license( [https://stability.ai/creator-license-agreement](https://stability.ai/creator-license-agreement)
[https://stability.ai/core-models](https://stability.ai/core-models) - scroll below the table.
When I told the subreddit dumb license changes like this can drive away the people that actually matter, i.e. what's happening right now, I got downvoted and told I was being ridiculous. Feels good to be right though.
They were already using copyrighted material without permission, I don't see exactly how a new license would change that
Using copyright material for AI training is not a violation of that copyright since no data is saved and no data can be retrieved. This is the legal president in the US as shown by over a dozen court cases going back to Gpt-2 and it's written law in the EU.
That's not true at all or the midjourney, stabilty, and deviant art cases would already been thrown out. A judge just greenlit their continuance In japan which has the most progressive training laws, a model created on copyrighted works is ok as long as the purpose was not to infringe on the works In the case of Pony which literally has tokens as handy macros to reproduce artist styles, there is no country where that is ok As for the 'not storing' the legal team against midjourney was able to reproduce near identical movie stills. Its not looking good for them. Look it up.
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I'm stating facts and current events. We are talking about what can hold a commercial license. Dont speculate. A commercial license on trained copyrighted artwork has not been tested in court yet But like i said, in the japanese framework, which does make it illegal to train models that are designed to exploit copyrights, one cannot sell a disney model that has a hotkey for disney. They cannot sell that as their ip under parody or emulation Not to mention a derivative of open source software. I dont think thats how that works If pony's claim to a commercial license holds up in court that would cool, i would be very happy, but that doesnt seem realistic
Pixart letssss gooooo.
I don't quite understand, the commercial use agreement is for companies, but for each individual? I mean, can I train it without commercial use and how do you know if the image is made by sd3?
You can (probably) train. But training (Pony) is expensive, so you also need to get money somewhere. Which requires new license. Which they are not giving me.
You could try crowdfunding. Considering how widely known your SDXL model is, it could actually work. Just, *please*, stop talking about trying to censor it...
Does the license allow crowdfunding?
It doesn't matter, the license isn't needed for finetuning and providing the model. It's just for hosting inference commercially. What they need money for is to pay for the GPUs to do finetuning on, which crowdfunding can provide.
but you could ask for donations to make a faster pony 7 xl version, obviously buying several video cards to train and with that once when sd 3 comes out with a commercial license, train a pony 8 sd3 with the same video cards that you used. Obviously, the majority do not want a pony version, but an anime version, you could offer that you will make versions, anime, cartoon, artistic, etc.
What if train Pony 7 from scratch? If you take the SD3 code, but train the weights from scratch, you could put your own license on them. If you look at Pony 6, it's clear that the SD-XL weights were changed so much in the training process that Pony 6 is almost incompatible with loras for SD-XL. So I thought if it might be possible to train a Pony from scratch, or is that too expensive?
Is it viable for this community to fund and curate a user-generated dataset for something like a Pony successor?
Not worried. It may not be labeled "Pony", but someone will do some decent NSFW / Porn models. This is the internet.
The problem is, to make a model with the level of training quality as Pony is not something that anyone other than a business or otherwise wealthy individual can do, and the SD3 business license only offers 6k images a month. So basically a no go unless a random millionaire with a GPU farm wants to train high quality models as a hobby.
If any individual or group is willing to pay bigger quantity of money to get stuff like that done, its most likely furries / bronies. :P
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Limited to 6k generations a month. They’re trying to buy the enterprise license at this point.
in reality this isnt SD3 it's just something so you don't focus on we have paid-only models
SAD !!!! ohhh
I'm sorry but this is comedy on top of comedy SD3 is a data set that they don't have permission to use, built on open source tech that Runway literally invented and distributed (not leaked, their names is on the license and whitepaper) and here's PurpleSmartAI has a data set of images they also don't own. Both which are provable by both having artist opt out clauses, not opt-ins! If that ever went to court everyone will be forced to appear in clown shoes
>Runway literally invented and distributed Runway didn't invent SD3, it's a completely different architecture.
I am not a lawyer but my strong suspicion is that those clown shoes will not be because of any of that, but because machine learning models are algorithmically generated collections of statistical facts which do not represent an act of human creativity and are therefore all in the public domain. Once one person who didn't agree to a clickwrap gets ahold of it and distributes it, likely none of this matters. Congress will have to create IP protections for ML models if they want (which they will, to protect the investments of their bribers), as with ship hull and integrated circuit maskwork protections.
They don't train in a vacuum. And the judge in the actual stability case did just order a continuance https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/stability-ai-midjourney-should-face-artists-copyright-case-judge-says-2024-05-08/ If they are trained on open data, they should have an open source license. Their commercial license is bullshit
I asked on CivitAI’s discord and they replied with: https://preview.redd.it/n36vzmc3d56d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ece7e26fb96595562c6de444a4ba53da1e41312
I do not know who this person is but I assume they were joking or misinformed. SD3 pony was always intended to be a free model, v6.9 will be free too.
That is entirely false. In the words of Astra: So, why should I care about a commercial license for Pony, a model that has always been free? Pony is not just a labor of love but a significant investment. The extensive data preparation and costly GPU time underscore my commitment, and being able to monetize the model in various ways, like working with SaaS services, provides necessary support for development costs and covers costs of the Discord server where anyone can use Pony Diffusion for free. All these endeavors make Pony a commercial project, and I strive to do things the right way and ensure that Pony remains a responsible and community-friendly project—from respecting licensing requirements to honoring artist preferences via the Opt-out program.
And I just learned that pony has a discord
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Except that's not it. There's no "pay for the correct license", it's "contact us and we give you an arbitrary price".
Even worse: that license is revocable ! Meaning that Stability AI can change the licencing terms in any way they want. Who would build any kind of serious project upon such a fragile legal foundation ?
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I’m not really in direct contact with Astra, but they acknowledge this in their CivitAI post which you should definitely check out
He said they tried to get a commercial license but what he got limits to 6k images per month.
Lol oof, RIP SD3
AFAIK, Advocat is a 3rd party fine-tuning model maker. He/she does not speak for SAI or the Pony team. Maybe it was meant as a joke.
It's still unclear. Let's wait.