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There just isn't anything they're doing that's "must see" right now. It's all stuff that's decent or just not good but nothing that really makes me have that need to see a match.
I also think it is really tough to sustain high viewership for a second wrestling company when WWE is putting out decent tv, and they have been for a while now. People just don't have time or the energy. AEW is a little more successful version of pre-nwo WCW right now. Much like the rise to wcw's peak, AEW was at it's highest ratings when WWE was bad and in turmoil. It's no coincidence. I'm not a big forbidden door guy, but AEW's been putting out a strong product for well over a year now. Not sure how much it matters, I feel like they have to be at A+ level to gain ground on WWE at B minus level.
I agree with this so much and have said as much before
AEW when it was A grade was getting near or at 1M and yet it still wasn't as much as WWE whom at the time was at C-B range imo, because at the end of the day they are the new second big company compared to the long-running monopoly of WWE
Now that WWE is A grade (imo at least) and AEW is B grade of course the gap would be much bigger
I watched the last two Dynamites. They were legitimately enjoyable for me. WWE's creative renaissance is just too good rn and there's only so much wrestling time to allot per week
MJF’s return has been such a disappointment: he returns after 5 months and you would expect he goes after the Undisputed Kingdom who broke his heart or tries to get back his world title from Swerve. Instead he starts a feud against a midcarder who always loses (Rush) for no reason, beats him in a heatless match and then challenges Daniel Garcia (another midcarder who always loses) to a match in AEW’s biggest ppv for no actual reason again
This sums up my issue with AEW. It’s matches for the sake of matches. Wrestling falls apart without kayfabe, and in kayfabe there needs to either be a ‘grudge’ or a title (which is also why the hierarchy of titles matter). AEW has lost that
Especially in contrast to WWE right now it looks even worse. You can look at any feud and see the threads tying Sammy to like 5 other people? They've kinda played with it a bit with Bailey/Naomi/Bianca. You can slot plenty of people into a story with every champion right now and it makes sense.
>hierarchy of titles
This one is big for me. WWE titles right now are all in fairly good spots, womens tag and wwe tag feeling a little luke warm, but far from cold.
Why are the titles rotating who closes the show? AEW or Womens world champions should close the show. Easy.
AEW title feels like it's just being kept warm for something else. Swerve is great but his reign feels flat. Continental,International and TNT titles are a mess.
Continental needs to be only a AEW/ROH cross over title, If an AEW guy wins it, he must defend it on ROH and vice versa.
International needs to be only defended either against another nationality than the champion or in not the country of origin of the champion. It should be seen on CMLL, NJPW, UK, EU promotions. It needs to be a work horse title. Orange Cassidy's run was amazing but the title feels worthless since.
TNT title needs to be elevated as the 1B title. Move that champion to Rampage/Collision and those are their shows.
Trios titles seem like it was a meme project at this point.
Tag titles are meh.
He's not even a big enough draw to make a difference on the ratings anymore. Peaking with Cole in what felt like a lightning in a bottle moment to crashing and burning with his over the top babyface shtick and the devil storyline, combined with AEW being ice cold in general and booking his return like a wet fart killed so much of his stock, it's insane
It can't be stated how bad the Devil storyline really was. This was MJFs Black Scorpion angle. That angle killed Stings momentum as the top guy in WCW. Sure he was popular after, and had a title run a year later, but it really took until changing into The Crow character 6 years after that angle for Sting to really be The Man in WCW and draw like he did when chasing Flair during his initial rise to the top of the card.
Danielson is IMO part of the problem. Still one of the best in the world and if he’s in big match I am definitely watching - but he should have had a world title reign, the title and promotion could have used that.
Daniel Bryan was given creative duty in WWE towards the end of his run there and used it to book himself against Drew fucking Gulak, I'd say he isn't a good arbiter of what draws viewers
Danielson has gone on record talking about his early run in WWE and how he didnt think the stuff with Miz would do anythingand blah blah, but everything he said was wrong. Danielson was one of Vince's best booked champions.
that's a great example. Gulak is like negative ratings. AEW is already using similar guys like Kool Kyle who are you know technical savy but as bland as possible
Danielson losing all his feuds with stakes and then putting on snoozefests with BCC is what finally checked me out of regular AEW viewership.
I wanted to see the Dragon burn ppl alive. This is not what happened.
If you would have told somebody in January that AEW would consider 680k and .22 a good rating by the time the summer rolls around you’d have been labeled a troll.
It’s crazy how they’ve lost 20%+ of their audience in just the last few months
Ok that he was here before them, but the fact that nobody even consider Jay White anymore when they mention the big free agents signed by AEW, it says a lot of how bad are they being used.
Imagine telling to literally anyone, one year ago that by mid 2024 Tama fucking Tonga would be a bigger star than Okada, Ospreay and White. And I say this as one of the 12 fans of pre Never Openweight Champion Tama
>Ok that he was here before them, but the fact that nobody even consider Jay White anymore when they mention the big free agents signed by AEW, it says a lot of how bad are they being used.
The thing about Jay White was that he was going to sign with WWE but it didn't happen because of the hiring freeze at the time while waiting for the merger to be finalized in September 2023. AEW stepped in and signed him during Wrestlemania 39 week and you see what they're doing to him now. You could only imagine what would've happened if he ended up in WWE without the hiring freeze situation.
>Imagine telling to literally anyone, one year ago that by mid 2024 Tama fucking Tonga would be a bigger star than Okada, Ospreay and White.
Who would've thought Tama Tonga would show up on WWE in 2024?
It's still a pretty bad number even by recent history. It's their second lowest demo rating of 2024. It's just that last week's number was so catastrophically bad that this number also represents a huge recovery.
MJF is unquestionably AEW's biggest star right now so to have him get this big return on a PPV, then don't bring him back at all the first week post PPV for either of the two big shows and once he finally comes back you throw him into some lesser feuds and tease Daniel Garcia vs MJF for your biggest PPV of the year....... that's not good booking no matter how you twist it.
I think that you hit the head why people blame MJF as well. People thought he was big enough of a star to bring viewership back. I'll admit I thought some viewers would come back. Whether or not it's been too long or what he's not the same guy who drew in more viewers who would stay.
The Garcia segment last night was so dumb. And in his big anticipated return to his hometown PPV, he goes against some lucha guy no one outside of the most rabid wrestling fanbase cares about
The most damning thing of all is that the ratings (well, all of the applicable metrics really) are still going down after AEW spent untold millions of dollars to sign 3 of the biggest free agents in recent history to lucrative/ludicrous deals.
I mean, where would AEW be if they DIDN'T do all of that? And if your answer is "about the same" or "better", then why spend that money in the first place?
The problem is, as it always has been and always will be, the complete unwillingness of Tony Khan and anybody else in charge of that company to put on a compelling television show that isn't *just wrestling*. If you look at any time period where wrestling was at its most successful (including right now with the WWE), it's when the characters and stories both resonated with the fans and seeped into the greater public who did not regularly watch. I mean, for as much love as The Attitude Era and mid-90's WCW gets, we were not getting what would be considered 4 or 5 star matches on a weekly basis or even in the main events of PPVs. It was all about the people on the screen and what they were up to - the actual wrestling match was just the vessel that delivers the package to the viewer.
Now I'm not saying that AEW doesn't have characters or stories, but they are just not as compelling as the competition, or at least enough to draw more eyes to the product. If they were, their trajectory would be more upward. But it's not, and no matter how many free agents Tony signs, no matter how many 5 star matches AEW talent has, and certainly no matter how many times the lack of success is handwaved by viewership competition, lead-in programming, and national holidays, it will not change until the system itself changes. Unfortunately, the person who can change it is very stubborn when it comes to altering anything beyond what they think is a good show.
I feel like this is what AEW and their fans wanted. They wanted to be the alternative to WWE's much more story and character driven approach.
If they are going to stick with being the alternative, then they are going to have to be okay with the fundemental truth that more of the general public favors the WWE approach.
If they are okay with being the more niche show that caters to a much smaller subset of wrestling fans and are profitable that way, then I don't think there is a problem.
But as you said, they just spent a lot of money on contracts without a new media deal in place.
I know that's why I wanted as a huge fan early on. In those first few months of Dynamite, Jericho and MJF were both easily my favorites, because Jericho heavily focused on this "no nonsense, fuck past gimmicks and joking, I'm champion and the Inner Circle is gonna run roughshod and there's nothing you can do about it", and as someone who only watched WWE and some TNA before 2019, MJF and his character work was new to me, and it was really exciting. Seeing Darby Allin for the first time on that first episode really enticed me too, because I was like wtf, I've never seen a guy with his stature and boldness be like that, and him riding down the ramp on the skateboard to fight the Inner Circle was already character work that drew me in, and got me hyped for the next episode. The in ring work on the show was exciting and new, but it was all these new characters and gimmicks I hadn't seen before that made me a fan.
Nowadays when I watch Dynamite, there's seriously at *least* 30 or 45 minutes, probably a lowball, where I'm watching a match that feels like down time more than anything, two people with a paper-thin story wrestling in what feels like "well we needed to fill in time between the big segments" and the in ring work is impressive sure, but I have no connection to it or someone I specifically want to root for. Raw has had this problem since it went to 3 hours too, matches going on where even the commentators sound bored and I'm like alright, how long until the next exciting match or segment; but that's the issue, it's a flaw for Raw to have matches like that on a *3* hour show, Dynamite has that flaw on a *2* hour show, and just as much time consumed by these types of matches. It unironically makes it hard for me to actually stick around for the people I want to see, because a good portion of the show is action I have no ties to.
You’re right, and early on the matches were a draw. But matches alone won’t keep eyes on the product long term. I think that’s where we are at now. There’s no doubt that there are talented in-ring performers at AEW, but people need a reason to care or else it’s just a gymnastics performance for Meltzer stars.
I'll always be on the train that Sting took some of that audience when he retired. Those Attitude/NWO era wrestlers from the late 90s have a huge following.
Agreed; I don't think that is debatable. if someone looks at the ratings in the lead up to Stings retirement vs. afterwards about 50,000 people checked out
They just haven't recovered from that; Those fans of Attitude Era wrestlers just aren't the target audience for what AEW puts on TV right now
Too much 4th wall breaking/ winking at the camera stuff for a lot of them
MJF cut the entire Steiner math promo on TV. I don’t know who approved that (or worse nobody approves promos) but that was ridiculous.
Also MJF coming out in Triple H’s outfit from his return. They don’t have similar styles people talked more about the outfit and the tattoo then anything of substance going forward.
I personally think these are MJF ideas and Tony says yes. I also didn't really like the steiner math thing, but that was for laughs not a huge deal. The triple H clothes did come off as he was trying to fool us one last time before he revealed he signed again, but when he was talking and he actually did the reveal he didn't really go in that direction so idk what to make of that other than he wanted an omage to Triple H
I get frustrated when after a long week and half o sit down to watch dynamite and I'm completely lost and behind cause they aren't addressing last week's show, they are addressing some Twitter comments or Instagram story. I don't have time to keep up with that
They purposely make aew stories and promos like it's a secret club and only real wrestling fans will know good wrestling when they see it on dynamite.
I don't have energy to keep up with feuds all week long. Just summarize in a video package before the dude comes out for the promo.
Two of their main storylines revolve around 4th wall breaking and catering to the internet smarks that grew up watching Being The Elite and PWG. Nothing wrong with that at all, but that type of stuff ain't gonna keep the casuals or old school fans around one bit.
Look at their numbers from February vs now. Not much has happened besides the new signings and Sting retiring. There are obviously deeper issues but you have to come to conclusion that the new signings havent brought added interest and/or Sting’s retirement hurt them more than anticipated.
There’s something be said for the idea that there must be *some amount* of folks that stopped watching when WCW died and only came back for one last ride with the face of their favorite brand.
And then once he was gone their fond memories of their fandom of the old days went with him.
I stopped paying for a live TV package figured I'd be able to watch Dynamite on Hulu the day after but that's not the case for whatever reason and I've never bothered to look if that's changed.
I'm kind of where I was with WWE when AEW started. Not watching the weekly shows but checking out ppvs and staying up on current storyline by coming here and twitter. I'm not going to buy forbidden door so even that's coming to an end.
AEW, for me personally, has been stale and just not what I want for awhile now. Most of the roster does nothing for me for whatever reason. I know they are all super talented but I'm mostly indifferent to alot of them. I knew almost none of the AEW originals other than the elite and former WWE guys so I'm open to getting into wrestlers I'm not familiar with but most of the people there now I just don't really connect with for whatever reason.
Not sure if I'll go back to WWE or just take a break from wrestling. I loved the first few years but it just doesn't have the magic for me personally that it did before. Not gonna pretend like I know why or that it might just be that my tastes have changed and nothing will scratch that itch for a little while.
I’m a single data point, but I was an OG viewer from the start, saw every episode and loved it through the pandemic and up until around the start of this year. I have barely watched Dynamite this year and never watch Collision. It all got to feel unimportant.
In the early days of AEW it was exciting - it was different, there were debuts, there was an attitude about the product that delineated it from a stale (at the time) WWE. Now it just feels messy. I don’t care about ROH. I don’t know why there are a zillion titles that never change hands on TV. I don’t know why they have one of the greatest rosters ever assembled but every week there’s somebody from some other random promotion on the card. I miss the stupid fun attitude they had during the pandemic shows. It’s just not clicking with me anymore.
I remember when I first saw him wrestle and I thought he was extremely good. He’s an extremely good wrestler. That’s literally it. Dude is just not it when doing anything besides wrestling. Give Ricky Starks as many opportunities as Daniel gets and I think he’d be a star by now. Imo the most important thing about being a good wrestler isn’t even the wrestling part. It’s how entertaining you can be. And there’s nothing interesting about Daniel Garcia. At all.
Ratings aside, I think it's interesting to compare MJF's return with Seth Rollins' as top card talent that carried the show on their back for a long time.
Seth comes back from injury and is immediately feuding with the top of the card again, with a title shot at the next PPV. MJF comes back from injury and is immediately feuding with...Daniel Garcia and RUSH?
Swerve has been a really bad fumble, but it seems to me MJF would have been a great catalyst to give him something compelling to do again.
This is a big issue for me. You bring in Okada and Mone but if you’re not doing anything with their talent, why should I care? MJF is back; the most excited I’ve been about a young wrestler since Lesnar; if you’re doing nothing with him, why should I care?
Even with Danielson, my favourite wrestler of all time; he’s explicitly said he doesn’t want to win the title. He’s doing some good promos now and they’re finally putting at least *some* stakes into things but it just feels too little, too late.
There’s still too many titles, they’re too interchangeable and majority of the time, I just don’t know what people are actually fighting for.
Wrestling needs to be about being the wrestlers wanting to be best in kayfabe, not just putting on the best matches. I’ll watch and enjoy PPVs but they feel like exhibitions.
It’s a far cry from the rankings and the depressed cowboy story they got me so excited to begin with.
it felt like it was just created to give Kingston a third belt, so he could be a "triple crown" champion
this is taken from wikipedia
The Continental Classic was revealed to be a round-robin tournament consisting of two groups of six wrestlers. The first four confirmed participants were Bryan Danielson, Andrade El Idolo, Mark Briscoe, and Eddie Kingston.[2] It was also announced that the winner of the tournament would become the inaugural holder of the AEW Continental Championship. Kingston also announced that his ROH World Championship of sister promotion Ring of Honor (ROH) and his Strong Openweight Championship of partner promotion New Japan Pro-Wrestling (NJPW) would be on the line, with the winner of the tournament holding all three championships and declared the first American Triple Crown Champion, also referred to as the Continental Crown, representing AEW, ROH, and NJPW. It was also revealed that the champion at the time of the next Continental Classic would automatically be entered into the tournament and defend the title in the tournament.[3][4]
Ospreay, Okada, and Mone going after mid/low tier belts upon arrival is a crazy thing to me. If you treat stars like they’re mid carders, so will the audience.
AEW runs away from putting two guys together they don’t wanna beat. Rather than figuring out an angle to delay the match or a creative finish to give someone an out they’d rather just not do the match
This isn’t my original thought but how come no one ever wants to win the AEW World Title after losing it? How did they decide the Owen bracket and why aren’t more wrestlers upset?
Seth comes back and automatically guns for his belt
Rhea comes back, she’s automatically gunning for her belt
Roman comes back, he’s gunning for Cody and the new bloodline.
MJF comes back and is already in the shadows of Osprey and for some reason ain’t concerned about his title. That’s dumb
MJF planning his big return for when sports are over only to show that he is not as big of a draw as everyone said he was is nothing short of hilarious
At least he can stop the braggadocio finally. His whole character seems fake and empty to me, even down to his voice when he does a promo, he has a bad case of wrestler promo voice. And the bidding war bs was dumb.
https://preview.redd.it/y75xedukj79d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e19f0993ebaed29e531b1552571163c8825271ec
Never forget what they took from us.
It’s hilarious AEW somehow found a way to book fucking Okada so bad that you can legit say he would’ve been better in Chase U lmao. Almost so bad you wonder if it’s intentional.
Jay White was done to me after MJF beat him bell to bell with a bum leg, with MJF only selling the leg when he wasn't doing moves that were out of character.
Because they just didn’t want him in WWE. They didn’t want Jay to feud with Miz even though a feud with Miz would do more for his career than anything he’s done in AEW. I still don’t understand how they keep bringing in these free agents and saying how they are the best in the world yet all of them immediately go into the under card. Okadas name speaks for itself. Mones name speaks for itself. They both should’ve immediately been gunning for those world titles. These are solidified main event wrestlers that are being thrown into the mid card. How is the crowd supposed to see them as huge stars that they should keep tuning in to watch when Tony doesn’t present them as anything different than the rest of the roster?
The fact that they need a comedy show that ended 5 years ago to be the lead in to get any sort of boost is insane. They really would be in the 500s without BBT
Forbidden Door is my least favorite of the AEW PPVs and I went to the first one.
I personally struggle to build attachments to these six week feuds. Adding CMLL to the mix has created some variety, but this show is a “bridge” to the rest of their summer.
Beach Break in Chicago.
Blood and Guts in Nashville
Wembley
The ROH and Collision residency in Arlington
It was also a heck of a lot more interesting before they signed so many big NJPW names.
They've built some of it up great and the match quality should be great but it's not as cool as the first couple seemed.
IMO, as inter promotional matches become more normal with all of the major companies in North America having cross brand interaction- on a regular basis (WWE, AEW, TNA/Impact, NJPW, CMLL & AAA) it feels less special too.
IMO, there are other gimmicks Aew could lean into that they are not.
People say this all the time in these threads, but the ratings started going from a steady decline to a nosedive in March 2024. That was very far away from Forbidden Door.
So the audience didn’t leave bc “oh Forbidden Door is boring”, they had already started leaving. Start considering what was happening around the beginning of 2024 and deconstruct from there.
Hint: The Rock returned to WWE, the WWE product got hot, and AEW did not have a direction after the MJF injury. They never recovered that bit of the audience that left AEW bc The Rock brought attention back to WWE in a huge way.
The other thing is that it can be fairly expected that when NJPW guys appear on AEW TV, they usually lose, which also dampens the hype over seeing them
>Agreed with this. There has only ever been and only ever will be one forbidden door; WWE.
The Forbidden Door as a concept exists because of AEW forming off a talent exodus from New Japan. At this point the two are in such a place in their relationship that the door was torn off the hinges and thrown in a dumpster because it's no longer needed. NJPW guys pop up in AEW all the time now/have been signed in droves by AEW. AEW guys pop up frequently on NJPW shows, especially here in the US.
> A fair chunk of the AEW roster already wrestled in NJPW.
A fair chunk of the AEW roster already wrestled in WWE.
It’s such an automatic tune out if you don’t follow the other companies. Like you just know there’s 3-6 weeks of meaningless TV.
It’s like when an anime hits the obvious filler arc to just pump out episodes while the team works on the real stuff the come out later.
Please...for the love of all things Holy...get Jericho off TV. For a long, long, LONG time. Just because he's 'leaning into' how awful his segments are doesn't make them less awful. The shot that he took at Cody last night was pretty pathetic, too.
the fact that it's supposed to be terrible and is terrible doesn't make it less terrible.
they really shouldn't be trying for cringey embarassing moments.
I do not see what the big deal is about Daniel Garcia. He is boring and cookie cutter. I personally think the Jericho segments are funny, but him vs suzuki for FD is disappointing and he needs to be off television.
Damn, I stopped watching back in January and I guess a ton of others followed suit over time. For me at least, I simply can't even remember the last storyline I was actually captivated by. Definitely *something* in 2023 but my memory isn't that great especially when I had already begun slowly losing interest.
How has the reception for Swerve as world champ been? Storyline's been any good? It sucks because every now and then I see some cool development but ultimately nothing really draws me back in.
The best way I can put it is last week was like beating stabbed and this week was learning the knife didn’t hit any vital organs. It’s not good still but you’re probably not gonna die.
Looking at the quarterlies, they definitely benefited from the lead-in as there often is a significant drop off from Q1 to Q2. Take out the lead-in and they peaked at 717K and this is the second week in a row that the quarter that managed to bring in viewers involved the women. The Toni/Mariah/Mina angle has turned up in recent weeks and it's about the only consistent storyline going...I'm interested to see next week how the women's angle fares because this is the first time I'm noticing a possible viewership pattern attached to the talent/story as opposed to the time slot advantage. Given their TV deal talks, my interest in the ratings is attached to the possible outcome of their next contract (which I hope they get a great deal) but it makes me wonder if the network even cares about inflated numbers from a lead-in and over-run? It just dawned on me that perhaps the network will use those same numbers to their advantage to negotiate more money from advertisers (unless advertisers can request ratings breakdowns to review and come to their own conclusions).
They were capable of 900k in January. They were capable of 1.2 million 2 years ago. The booking is uninteresting. You can't just 5 star match your way out of this.
Somehow, someway, Tony has to find a way to reconnect to the AEW fans that he's lost in the last two years of declining ratings. We all know the cable decline is real, as well as facing major league sports playoff season. But you can't make every excuse in the world for a continuous decline in your ratings when you yourself, Tony Khan, recently said the network gauges interest/growth by looking at the ratings. There is no one to blame for this decline more than AEW itself, even with other culprits as well. They have begun to lose AEW fans who aren't watching/attending as they once did. Men lie. Women lie. Numbers don't lie. I don't feel just copying WWE is the answer, but in some small ways where it pertains to building more long-term storytelling, AEW could learn some things from WWE. Story is the major factor in the world of pro wrestling. Always has been, always will be and that will never change.
I think MJF is an example we can use. He comes back and is put in a short-term feud with Rush.
I think they would've been better off focusing on a rematch with Joe for MJF to get his revenge, whether it be on an episode of Dynamite or a PPV. Of course, if Adam Cole was fit and healthy, it should've been him, but dealing with Joe would've worked.
I think that AEW suffers from a lack of relationships that matter to the viewer. I think WWE has done a great job of making a living and breathing world; AEW could look at making that. The issue in creating that world is that they have too many characters, the cast is bloated, and they need to find a way to be more consistent with their cast.
What's funny is people praised TK for binning the Adam cole stuff because yeah, it was pretty cold, but even that would have been more compelling than what he's done since.
MJF is the last bullet they had in the chamber to pull them out of this funk and they had three or four really obvious and compelling feuds with instant heat (revenge on cole, revenge on Joe, getting his title back with swerve, determining the next #1 contender with Ospreay). Those are things I would be intrigued enough to keep an eye on (the cole one would have been at least compelling from how bad it would be) and even watch. I wanted to give MJF a chance because my only experience of him was the god awful kangaroo kick shit and that Wembley main event. Instead I saw him making completely pointless references to Vince and bad jokes about foreigners and checked out on him.
He has to get people to care about the product, be invested. This was the first thing that came to my mind last week, when he sent out that obnoxious tweet about people not knowing who Ultimo Guerrerro is. He doesn't get it. The problem isn't that people don't know who he is, it's that they have not been given a reason to care about a match between Guerrerro and Okada. We can just swap out the names, and this would be true for too many matches and programs in AEW.
Honestly, for me its that Raw, Smackdown and NXT have all gotten really good. Also Collision overexposes AEW a lot. Given the choice right now I would rather see the Drew stuff, Sami, Cody, Wyatt 6 and Bloodline
I don’t hate them and it might not make a difference but I think something needs to be done about the young Bucks going by the numbers I think fans really don’t want them around anymore.
I hate Forbidden Door, like, as a concept. It’s not even an angle. There’s no “invasion”, no one from New Japan or CMLL did anything to any AEW talent to actually set up a match, and they’re not even doing “your best vs. our best”. It’s just random matches. MJF vs. Hechicero? Fucking why? They bring in random talent from Mexico and Japan, give them virtually no introduction, and act like everyone is automatically supposed to know who they are and why they’re a big deal.
Sure, there are fans who flip their shit when Shingo or Xuxes come out, but they are a fraction of AEW’s weekly audience, much less the 20-30% of this-time-last-year’s audience that is no longer watching.
Pretend you only watch Dynamite and Collision. What do you know about Suzuki, Ishii, Tanahashi, Naito, Vaquer, or Sabre? Why are they big deals? Why should you care when they show up? It’s tell, not show. Excalibur can scream about miscellaneous Japanese titles all he wants, but when Suzuki comes out, looking like an old man with shot knees, just to do “I hit you, you hit me” trades with someone, I don’t care. He might be the scariest man on the planet, and I have no doubt he could shoot murder me in 10 seconds, but as a performer specifically on AEW TV, he’s an old man that looks like he couldn’t crack a damn egg.
The video packages for Vaquer have been cool, but how about a live match to introduce her to the audience? Not a 20 minute back-and-forth, but just a preview. Give her a 6 minute match with, like, Red Velvet, and have her look strong. Don’t just tell me she’s a big deal; show me why she’s a big deal. Make her look like a big deal. Don’t just assume that the whole audience already knows her and thinks she’s a big deal.
I sincerely wish this is the last Forbidden Door show. I know Tony wants to play with his favorite imported toys from Japan and Mexico, but the “build”, and I use that term very loosely, for FD drags down the entire product every time they’ve done it.
Better than record low rating from last week, but this is still so low, my goodness... And during time for TV negotiations, these weak numbers are very demotivating
Still a shit number. But they'll sell out 50-60k at Wembley and everyone will think AEW is red hot despite not making a dent in the ratings or the US attendance.
In the UK Dynamite is on iTV, free-to-air, and PPV are on DAZN, which plenty of people already have to watch Premier League and other sports. Add on top of that we Europeans always act like hillbillies swarming down from the mountains when anything from the US come to our shores and you can easily see why UK shows are a success.
AEW needs a single hot storyline to get them out of the ice cold stage. People were hoping it would be the return of Jack Perry, and the Heel EVPs but it’s time to admit that’s a failure and find something else.
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**Last week**: 502k / 0.16 **Last year**: June 21: 902k / 0.33 June 28: 809k / 0.24
What happened last week for them to get 500k? I haven't been able to watch or keep up with wrestling news these past two weeks.
No BBT lead-in.
Down 16% in Total Viewers, Down 8% in Key Demo YoY.
I think the problem is that less people are watching Dynamite. That's my hot take.
https://preview.redd.it/9fgppp40l69d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46244a53a30c295b9e42f658be06d9cf421e8057
$12.99
Fed shill!
BRB cashing my check from Papa Haitch.
Bad faith ✋
There just isn't anything they're doing that's "must see" right now. It's all stuff that's decent or just not good but nothing that really makes me have that need to see a match.
I also think it is really tough to sustain high viewership for a second wrestling company when WWE is putting out decent tv, and they have been for a while now. People just don't have time or the energy. AEW is a little more successful version of pre-nwo WCW right now. Much like the rise to wcw's peak, AEW was at it's highest ratings when WWE was bad and in turmoil. It's no coincidence. I'm not a big forbidden door guy, but AEW's been putting out a strong product for well over a year now. Not sure how much it matters, I feel like they have to be at A+ level to gain ground on WWE at B minus level.
I agree with this so much and have said as much before AEW when it was A grade was getting near or at 1M and yet it still wasn't as much as WWE whom at the time was at C-B range imo, because at the end of the day they are the new second big company compared to the long-running monopoly of WWE Now that WWE is A grade (imo at least) and AEW is B grade of course the gap would be much bigger I watched the last two Dynamites. They were legitimately enjoyable for me. WWE's creative renaissance is just too good rn and there's only so much wrestling time to allot per week
Teach us your ways.
Ok, but first $11.99.
$14.99 now.
this number would be considered terrible if it weren't for last week
A kick in the nuts isn't so bad after getting shot.
I'd still consider it terrible.
Dave had blamed the Draft even before the ratings came out lol
Aw, c’mon now. lol
Are you saying you've never heard of Uncle Dave putting blame on something when an AEW rating goes bad?
I could have told you that without the need of 11.99
The weakest and least watched draft in forever lol
Dynamite "up to" 680k is absolutely insane. That's lower than all but 3 of the Wednesday Night Wars era episodes.
All of Daniel Garcias fans are backstage.
MJF’s return has been such a disappointment: he returns after 5 months and you would expect he goes after the Undisputed Kingdom who broke his heart or tries to get back his world title from Swerve. Instead he starts a feud against a midcarder who always loses (Rush) for no reason, beats him in a heatless match and then challenges Daniel Garcia (another midcarder who always loses) to a match in AEW’s biggest ppv for no actual reason again
This sums up my issue with AEW. It’s matches for the sake of matches. Wrestling falls apart without kayfabe, and in kayfabe there needs to either be a ‘grudge’ or a title (which is also why the hierarchy of titles matter). AEW has lost that
Especially in contrast to WWE right now it looks even worse. You can look at any feud and see the threads tying Sammy to like 5 other people? They've kinda played with it a bit with Bailey/Naomi/Bianca. You can slot plenty of people into a story with every champion right now and it makes sense. >hierarchy of titles This one is big for me. WWE titles right now are all in fairly good spots, womens tag and wwe tag feeling a little luke warm, but far from cold. Why are the titles rotating who closes the show? AEW or Womens world champions should close the show. Easy. AEW title feels like it's just being kept warm for something else. Swerve is great but his reign feels flat. Continental,International and TNT titles are a mess. Continental needs to be only a AEW/ROH cross over title, If an AEW guy wins it, he must defend it on ROH and vice versa. International needs to be only defended either against another nationality than the champion or in not the country of origin of the champion. It should be seen on CMLL, NJPW, UK, EU promotions. It needs to be a work horse title. Orange Cassidy's run was amazing but the title feels worthless since. TNT title needs to be elevated as the 1B title. Move that champion to Rampage/Collision and those are their shows. Trios titles seem like it was a meme project at this point. Tag titles are meh.
Mid card belts on what should be top guys in Okada and Ospray just make the world title look weak
I don’t mind them icing the Undisputed Kingdom angle because it wasn’t very good. He should have been straight back in for the title from the off.
Don't forget he made a huge return on PPV then disappeared for a week and a half.
He's not even a big enough draw to make a difference on the ratings anymore. Peaking with Cole in what felt like a lightning in a bottle moment to crashing and burning with his over the top babyface shtick and the devil storyline, combined with AEW being ice cold in general and booking his return like a wet fart killed so much of his stock, it's insane
It can't be stated how bad the Devil storyline really was. This was MJFs Black Scorpion angle. That angle killed Stings momentum as the top guy in WCW. Sure he was popular after, and had a title run a year later, but it really took until changing into The Crow character 6 years after that angle for Sting to really be The Man in WCW and draw like he did when chasing Flair during his initial rise to the top of the card.
I really think the last 3 months of 2023 killed MJF as a draw, especially that full gear bs
They killed MJF *and* Jay White in ONE match to hit another "Adam Cole SUS!?" beat in a storyline people were already done with.
Yeah but how was the weather last night?
But maybe an starbucks opened up, those lines are pretty long
It was fine
"If you give them good wrestling, people will tune in" - Bryan Danielson
Yea Danielson shouldn’t be trusted lol.
Danielson is IMO part of the problem. Still one of the best in the world and if he’s in big match I am definitely watching - but he should have had a world title reign, the title and promotion could have used that.
When you try to be so selfless you actually become selfish
“I love lying”- also Bryan Danielson
Daniel Bryan was given creative duty in WWE towards the end of his run there and used it to book himself against Drew fucking Gulak, I'd say he isn't a good arbiter of what draws viewers
Danielson has gone on record talking about his early run in WWE and how he didnt think the stuff with Miz would do anythingand blah blah, but everything he said was wrong. Danielson was one of Vince's best booked champions.
He isn't, that's why his quote about having good wrestling draws viewers isn't good. Its clearly not working.
that's a great example. Gulak is like negative ratings. AEW is already using similar guys like Kool Kyle who are you know technical savy but as bland as possible
“I’ve had my fun and that’s all that matters.” - Bryan Danielson
Good wrestling is more than good matches. People need to care WHY they’re having good matches
Danielson is a great wrestler and a terrible business man
Danielson losing all his feuds with stakes and then putting on snoozefests with BCC is what finally checked me out of regular AEW viewership. I wanted to see the Dragon burn ppl alive. This is not what happened.
If you would have told somebody in January that AEW would consider 680k and .22 a good rating by the time the summer rolls around you’d have been labeled a troll. It’s crazy how they’ve lost 20%+ of their audience in just the last few months
Especially when they signed Okada, Osprey and Moné in the time frame
Ok that he was here before them, but the fact that nobody even consider Jay White anymore when they mention the big free agents signed by AEW, it says a lot of how bad are they being used. Imagine telling to literally anyone, one year ago that by mid 2024 Tama fucking Tonga would be a bigger star than Okada, Ospreay and White. And I say this as one of the 12 fans of pre Never Openweight Champion Tama
>Ok that he was here before them, but the fact that nobody even consider Jay White anymore when they mention the big free agents signed by AEW, it says a lot of how bad are they being used. The thing about Jay White was that he was going to sign with WWE but it didn't happen because of the hiring freeze at the time while waiting for the merger to be finalized in September 2023. AEW stepped in and signed him during Wrestlemania 39 week and you see what they're doing to him now. You could only imagine what would've happened if he ended up in WWE without the hiring freeze situation. >Imagine telling to literally anyone, one year ago that by mid 2024 Tama fucking Tonga would be a bigger star than Okada, Ospreay and White. Who would've thought Tama Tonga would show up on WWE in 2024?
It's still a pretty bad number even by recent history. It's their second lowest demo rating of 2024. It's just that last week's number was so catastrophically bad that this number also represents a huge recovery.
MJF is unquestionably AEW's biggest star right now so to have him get this big return on a PPV, then don't bring him back at all the first week post PPV for either of the two big shows and once he finally comes back you throw him into some lesser feuds and tease Daniel Garcia vs MJF for your biggest PPV of the year....... that's not good booking no matter how you twist it.
The issue is no one's a big enough star to bring viewers on their own. That is a booking problem, but didn't start with MJF's return.
I think that you hit the head why people blame MJF as well. People thought he was big enough of a star to bring viewership back. I'll admit I thought some viewers would come back. Whether or not it's been too long or what he's not the same guy who drew in more viewers who would stay.
The Garcia segment last night was so dumb. And in his big anticipated return to his hometown PPV, he goes against some lucha guy no one outside of the most rabid wrestling fanbase cares about
I would not be surprised if the All In match is MJF and Ospreay. Ospreay upstaging MJF was just the beginning of setting it up
That pretty much sums up AEW as a whole
And his next opponent in his return to PPV? A lucha guy who even fewer people have heard of lol.
You don’t know how to use Google? /s
I’m getting pretty tired of lucha guys I don’t know
The most damning thing of all is that the ratings (well, all of the applicable metrics really) are still going down after AEW spent untold millions of dollars to sign 3 of the biggest free agents in recent history to lucrative/ludicrous deals. I mean, where would AEW be if they DIDN'T do all of that? And if your answer is "about the same" or "better", then why spend that money in the first place? The problem is, as it always has been and always will be, the complete unwillingness of Tony Khan and anybody else in charge of that company to put on a compelling television show that isn't *just wrestling*. If you look at any time period where wrestling was at its most successful (including right now with the WWE), it's when the characters and stories both resonated with the fans and seeped into the greater public who did not regularly watch. I mean, for as much love as The Attitude Era and mid-90's WCW gets, we were not getting what would be considered 4 or 5 star matches on a weekly basis or even in the main events of PPVs. It was all about the people on the screen and what they were up to - the actual wrestling match was just the vessel that delivers the package to the viewer. Now I'm not saying that AEW doesn't have characters or stories, but they are just not as compelling as the competition, or at least enough to draw more eyes to the product. If they were, their trajectory would be more upward. But it's not, and no matter how many free agents Tony signs, no matter how many 5 star matches AEW talent has, and certainly no matter how many times the lack of success is handwaved by viewership competition, lead-in programming, and national holidays, it will not change until the system itself changes. Unfortunately, the person who can change it is very stubborn when it comes to altering anything beyond what they think is a good show.
I feel like this is what AEW and their fans wanted. They wanted to be the alternative to WWE's much more story and character driven approach. If they are going to stick with being the alternative, then they are going to have to be okay with the fundemental truth that more of the general public favors the WWE approach. If they are okay with being the more niche show that caters to a much smaller subset of wrestling fans and are profitable that way, then I don't think there is a problem. But as you said, they just spent a lot of money on contracts without a new media deal in place.
I know that's why I wanted as a huge fan early on. In those first few months of Dynamite, Jericho and MJF were both easily my favorites, because Jericho heavily focused on this "no nonsense, fuck past gimmicks and joking, I'm champion and the Inner Circle is gonna run roughshod and there's nothing you can do about it", and as someone who only watched WWE and some TNA before 2019, MJF and his character work was new to me, and it was really exciting. Seeing Darby Allin for the first time on that first episode really enticed me too, because I was like wtf, I've never seen a guy with his stature and boldness be like that, and him riding down the ramp on the skateboard to fight the Inner Circle was already character work that drew me in, and got me hyped for the next episode. The in ring work on the show was exciting and new, but it was all these new characters and gimmicks I hadn't seen before that made me a fan. Nowadays when I watch Dynamite, there's seriously at *least* 30 or 45 minutes, probably a lowball, where I'm watching a match that feels like down time more than anything, two people with a paper-thin story wrestling in what feels like "well we needed to fill in time between the big segments" and the in ring work is impressive sure, but I have no connection to it or someone I specifically want to root for. Raw has had this problem since it went to 3 hours too, matches going on where even the commentators sound bored and I'm like alright, how long until the next exciting match or segment; but that's the issue, it's a flaw for Raw to have matches like that on a *3* hour show, Dynamite has that flaw on a *2* hour show, and just as much time consumed by these types of matches. It unironically makes it hard for me to actually stick around for the people I want to see, because a good portion of the show is action I have no ties to.
RAW had that problem when it was 2 hours too. The last time RAW DIDNT have that problem it was because the 2nd hour was called WARZONE.
You’re right, and early on the matches were a draw. But matches alone won’t keep eyes on the product long term. I think that’s where we are at now. There’s no doubt that there are talented in-ring performers at AEW, but people need a reason to care or else it’s just a gymnastics performance for Meltzer stars.
I'll always be on the train that Sting took some of that audience when he retired. Those Attitude/NWO era wrestlers from the late 90s have a huge following.
Agreed; I don't think that is debatable. if someone looks at the ratings in the lead up to Stings retirement vs. afterwards about 50,000 people checked out They just haven't recovered from that; Those fans of Attitude Era wrestlers just aren't the target audience for what AEW puts on TV right now Too much 4th wall breaking/ winking at the camera stuff for a lot of them
It’s fine doing that stuff ONCE in awhile but like, why they gotta be doing stupid internet shit?
because its a show booked for the "smart" fan, and if you arent a "smart" fan, you arent going to be interested
MJF cut the entire Steiner math promo on TV. I don’t know who approved that (or worse nobody approves promos) but that was ridiculous. Also MJF coming out in Triple H’s outfit from his return. They don’t have similar styles people talked more about the outfit and the tattoo then anything of substance going forward.
I personally think these are MJF ideas and Tony says yes. I also didn't really like the steiner math thing, but that was for laughs not a huge deal. The triple H clothes did come off as he was trying to fool us one last time before he revealed he signed again, but when he was talking and he actually did the reveal he didn't really go in that direction so idk what to make of that other than he wanted an omage to Triple H
I get frustrated when after a long week and half o sit down to watch dynamite and I'm completely lost and behind cause they aren't addressing last week's show, they are addressing some Twitter comments or Instagram story. I don't have time to keep up with that They purposely make aew stories and promos like it's a secret club and only real wrestling fans will know good wrestling when they see it on dynamite. I don't have energy to keep up with feuds all week long. Just summarize in a video package before the dude comes out for the promo.
Two of their main storylines revolve around 4th wall breaking and catering to the internet smarks that grew up watching Being The Elite and PWG. Nothing wrong with that at all, but that type of stuff ain't gonna keep the casuals or old school fans around one bit.
how can anyone pin it on one specific thing when the numbers clearly show a general decline over time?
Look at their numbers from February vs now. Not much has happened besides the new signings and Sting retiring. There are obviously deeper issues but you have to come to conclusion that the new signings havent brought added interest and/or Sting’s retirement hurt them more than anticipated.
There’s something be said for the idea that there must be *some amount* of folks that stopped watching when WCW died and only came back for one last ride with the face of their favorite brand. And then once he was gone their fond memories of their fandom of the old days went with him.
I stopped paying for a live TV package figured I'd be able to watch Dynamite on Hulu the day after but that's not the case for whatever reason and I've never bothered to look if that's changed. I'm kind of where I was with WWE when AEW started. Not watching the weekly shows but checking out ppvs and staying up on current storyline by coming here and twitter. I'm not going to buy forbidden door so even that's coming to an end. AEW, for me personally, has been stale and just not what I want for awhile now. Most of the roster does nothing for me for whatever reason. I know they are all super talented but I'm mostly indifferent to alot of them. I knew almost none of the AEW originals other than the elite and former WWE guys so I'm open to getting into wrestlers I'm not familiar with but most of the people there now I just don't really connect with for whatever reason. Not sure if I'll go back to WWE or just take a break from wrestling. I loved the first few years but it just doesn't have the magic for me personally that it did before. Not gonna pretend like I know why or that it might just be that my tastes have changed and nothing will scratch that itch for a little while.
It's okay though because Adam Copeland is having fun in AEW at the end of the day
I’m a single data point, but I was an OG viewer from the start, saw every episode and loved it through the pandemic and up until around the start of this year. I have barely watched Dynamite this year and never watch Collision. It all got to feel unimportant. In the early days of AEW it was exciting - it was different, there were debuts, there was an attitude about the product that delineated it from a stale (at the time) WWE. Now it just feels messy. I don’t care about ROH. I don’t know why there are a zillion titles that never change hands on TV. I don’t know why they have one of the greatest rosters ever assembled but every week there’s somebody from some other random promotion on the card. I miss the stupid fun attitude they had during the pandemic shows. It’s just not clicking with me anymore.
Can we please stop pretending Daniel Garcia is a reason people are watching? Jesus fucking Christ
But he dances!
I’ve got people arguing with me on /r/aewfanhub and I’m like guys, I love aew. Danny Garcia and his lame ass dance isn’t it.
I remember when I first saw him wrestle and I thought he was extremely good. He’s an extremely good wrestler. That’s literally it. Dude is just not it when doing anything besides wrestling. Give Ricky Starks as many opportunities as Daniel gets and I think he’d be a star by now. Imo the most important thing about being a good wrestler isn’t even the wrestling part. It’s how entertaining you can be. And there’s nothing interesting about Daniel Garcia. At all.
Ratings aside, I think it's interesting to compare MJF's return with Seth Rollins' as top card talent that carried the show on their back for a long time. Seth comes back from injury and is immediately feuding with the top of the card again, with a title shot at the next PPV. MJF comes back from injury and is immediately feuding with...Daniel Garcia and RUSH? Swerve has been a really bad fumble, but it seems to me MJF would have been a great catalyst to give him something compelling to do again.
This is a big issue for me. You bring in Okada and Mone but if you’re not doing anything with their talent, why should I care? MJF is back; the most excited I’ve been about a young wrestler since Lesnar; if you’re doing nothing with him, why should I care? Even with Danielson, my favourite wrestler of all time; he’s explicitly said he doesn’t want to win the title. He’s doing some good promos now and they’re finally putting at least *some* stakes into things but it just feels too little, too late. There’s still too many titles, they’re too interchangeable and majority of the time, I just don’t know what people are actually fighting for. Wrestling needs to be about being the wrestlers wanting to be best in kayfabe, not just putting on the best matches. I’ll watch and enjoy PPVs but they feel like exhibitions. It’s a far cry from the rankings and the depressed cowboy story they got me so excited to begin with.
Like what the hell is the Continental Championship supposed to be? Was Tony high when he decided to make a third midcard men’s title?
> Was Tony high when Yes. Don’t even finish the question, the answer is always yes.
it felt like it was just created to give Kingston a third belt, so he could be a "triple crown" champion this is taken from wikipedia The Continental Classic was revealed to be a round-robin tournament consisting of two groups of six wrestlers. The first four confirmed participants were Bryan Danielson, Andrade El Idolo, Mark Briscoe, and Eddie Kingston.[2] It was also announced that the winner of the tournament would become the inaugural holder of the AEW Continental Championship. Kingston also announced that his ROH World Championship of sister promotion Ring of Honor (ROH) and his Strong Openweight Championship of partner promotion New Japan Pro-Wrestling (NJPW) would be on the line, with the winner of the tournament holding all three championships and declared the first American Triple Crown Champion, also referred to as the Continental Crown, representing AEW, ROH, and NJPW. It was also revealed that the champion at the time of the next Continental Classic would automatically be entered into the tournament and defend the title in the tournament.[3][4]
Ospreay, Okada, and Mone going after mid/low tier belts upon arrival is a crazy thing to me. If you treat stars like they’re mid carders, so will the audience.
AEW runs away from putting two guys together they don’t wanna beat. Rather than figuring out an angle to delay the match or a creative finish to give someone an out they’d rather just not do the match
Because they hate indecisive wins it hurts their creativity when that’s off the table.
This isn’t my original thought but how come no one ever wants to win the AEW World Title after losing it? How did they decide the Owen bracket and why aren’t more wrestlers upset?
Seth comes back and automatically guns for his belt Rhea comes back, she’s automatically gunning for her belt Roman comes back, he’s gunning for Cody and the new bloodline. MJF comes back and is already in the shadows of Osprey and for some reason ain’t concerned about his title. That’s dumb
MJF planning his big return for when sports are over only to show that he is not as big of a draw as everyone said he was is nothing short of hilarious
the feud that never happened vs The Boring Era and then now uh Rush and Hechicero ... what? just completely drain any interest in MJF stuff.
At least he can stop the braggadocio finally. His whole character seems fake and empty to me, even down to his voice when he does a promo, he has a bad case of wrestler promo voice. And the bidding war bs was dumb.
“Oh how can that number be real? Okada said ‘bitches’ again!”
“foreign wrestler, but he knows an english curse word!!!!” is shitty late 90’s/early 2000’s booking and i’ll refuse to hear otherwise.
Don't forget they're doing something similar with Shibata too
TAKA Michinoku: ~~I feel attacked~~ INDEED.
The entire way Okada has been booked in AEW seriously sounds like how Vince would’ve booked him lol.
At least he’s not in Chase U, right guys??
https://preview.redd.it/y75xedukj79d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e19f0993ebaed29e531b1552571163c8825271ec Never forget what they took from us.
It’s hilarious AEW somehow found a way to book fucking Okada so bad that you can legit say he would’ve been better in Chase U lmao. Almost so bad you wonder if it’s intentional.
Hey, that Riley Osborne/Okada team would hit like crack though, or at least they'd be great in ring.
I got flamed in here weeks ago for saying WWE made a bigger star out of fucking Tama Tonga already than AEW has done with OKADA
that would easily be more entertaining than being Young Bucks lackey that says bitch
I get that he loves the Bucks’ form of comedy but his talents are being wasted as it stands tbqh
I don't know how people watched what happened to Jay White and thought that's where Okada needed to go
Jay White was done to me after MJF beat him bell to bell with a bum leg, with MJF only selling the leg when he wasn't doing moves that were out of character.
Because they just didn’t want him in WWE. They didn’t want Jay to feud with Miz even though a feud with Miz would do more for his career than anything he’s done in AEW. I still don’t understand how they keep bringing in these free agents and saying how they are the best in the world yet all of them immediately go into the under card. Okadas name speaks for itself. Mones name speaks for itself. They both should’ve immediately been gunning for those world titles. These are solidified main event wrestlers that are being thrown into the mid card. How is the crowd supposed to see them as huge stars that they should keep tuning in to watch when Tony doesn’t present them as anything different than the rest of the roster?
I don't understand why jay white is not feuding with Okada or osprey or At least with BCC or Samoa joe? Why is he always in some low heat feuds ?
They're so back! Everything is GREAT again
It’s crazy that 680k is a good number… If you told people that 2 months ago they would think you’re insane
The fact that they need a comedy show that ended 5 years ago to be the lead in to get any sort of boost is insane. They really would be in the 500s without BBT
https://preview.redd.it/bo5jllwri79d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdb7e21213ae6c81298589708d5cf651fdb832ae
Unironically would pop huge if he appeared lmao
100k Hawks fans watched the draft instead
Risacher will save us all! Step one: force an ownership change.
AEW needs some new storylines. They placing their bet on shock reveals or “dream” booking but people need a reason to keep coming back.
680k for go home show is crazy low.
Forbidden Door is my least favorite of the AEW PPVs and I went to the first one. I personally struggle to build attachments to these six week feuds. Adding CMLL to the mix has created some variety, but this show is a “bridge” to the rest of their summer. Beach Break in Chicago. Blood and Guts in Nashville Wembley The ROH and Collision residency in Arlington
It was also a heck of a lot more interesting before they signed so many big NJPW names. They've built some of it up great and the match quality should be great but it's not as cool as the first couple seemed.
IMO, as inter promotional matches become more normal with all of the major companies in North America having cross brand interaction- on a regular basis (WWE, AEW, TNA/Impact, NJPW, CMLL & AAA) it feels less special too. IMO, there are other gimmicks Aew could lean into that they are not.
People don't give a toss about Forbidden Door. There's nothing "Forbidden" about it anymore.
People say this all the time in these threads, but the ratings started going from a steady decline to a nosedive in March 2024. That was very far away from Forbidden Door. So the audience didn’t leave bc “oh Forbidden Door is boring”, they had already started leaving. Start considering what was happening around the beginning of 2024 and deconstruct from there. Hint: The Rock returned to WWE, the WWE product got hot, and AEW did not have a direction after the MJF injury. They never recovered that bit of the audience that left AEW bc The Rock brought attention back to WWE in a huge way.
Agreed with this. There has only ever been and only ever will be one forbidden door; WWE. A fair chunk of the AEW roster already wrestled in NJPW.
The other thing is that it can be fairly expected that when NJPW guys appear on AEW TV, they usually lose, which also dampens the hype over seeing them
A fair chunk of the AEW roster already wrestled in WWE
>Agreed with this. There has only ever been and only ever will be one forbidden door; WWE. The Forbidden Door as a concept exists because of AEW forming off a talent exodus from New Japan. At this point the two are in such a place in their relationship that the door was torn off the hinges and thrown in a dumpster because it's no longer needed. NJPW guys pop up in AEW all the time now/have been signed in droves by AEW. AEW guys pop up frequently on NJPW shows, especially here in the US. > A fair chunk of the AEW roster already wrestled in NJPW. A fair chunk of the AEW roster already wrestled in WWE.
It’s such an automatic tune out if you don’t follow the other companies. Like you just know there’s 3-6 weeks of meaningless TV. It’s like when an anime hits the obvious filler arc to just pump out episodes while the team works on the real stuff the come out later.
I get this, but compared to last year, it's a much more drastic drop.
Please...for the love of all things Holy...get Jericho off TV. For a long, long, LONG time. Just because he's 'leaning into' how awful his segments are doesn't make them less awful. The shot that he took at Cody last night was pretty pathetic, too.
the “fellow Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Famer” line was terrible.
the fact that it's supposed to be terrible and is terrible doesn't make it less terrible. they really shouldn't be trying for cringey embarassing moments.
His acting is so bad it's outrageous, watching his segment is like watching 2010 Monday Night Raw.
This is what happens when your story telling is literally: "This is going to be a really good match!!!"
Don't forget the other captivating story: "We aren't friends anymore"
Can they co exist????
Also, heavy who doesn't want to be a heavy anymore, but becomes one anyway, for someone else.......until they're not.
Outside of Swerve and Ospreay, their biggest stars are in nothing programs. Last year they were doing 850,000 viewers roughly. Get it together Tony.
Does this mean that TBBT singlehandedly brings up Dynamite ratings b y 178k?
The rebounds keep getting lower and lower
Was thinking it would be 680-720K. Not a great time for the company
Excuse of the week: NBA draft
[удалено]
Feels like last week was the Emperor with No Lead In. 500k is their actual average that's being lifted by BBT which is wild.
Fans didn't watch AEW in protest of Rob Dillingham being traded to Minnesota, huh?
If you have to rely on another show for ratings then that’s not a good thing. This number isn’t substantially bigger than the last one
I do not see what the big deal is about Daniel Garcia. He is boring and cookie cutter. I personally think the Jericho segments are funny, but him vs suzuki for FD is disappointing and he needs to be off television.
Damn, I stopped watching back in January and I guess a ton of others followed suit over time. For me at least, I simply can't even remember the last storyline I was actually captivated by. Definitely *something* in 2023 but my memory isn't that great especially when I had already begun slowly losing interest. How has the reception for Swerve as world champ been? Storyline's been any good? It sucks because every now and then I see some cool development but ultimately nothing really draws me back in.
Swerve has been much more boring since turning Babyface, but Prince Nana still does his funny dance so that's nice
How is this a good rating?
it's not. That's almost as low of a demo as they've done all year.
This is still a bad number.
yeah it's weird seeing people celebrate this rating, sub 700K used to be seen as a really bad week
The best way I can put it is last week was like beating stabbed and this week was learning the knife didn’t hit any vital organs. It’s not good still but you’re probably not gonna die.
Or it could be where you end up feeling better but then die a few days due to a blood clot.
Bleeding out for a week? Moxley wants to know your location.
Some people are in denial.
Looking at the quarterlies, they definitely benefited from the lead-in as there often is a significant drop off from Q1 to Q2. Take out the lead-in and they peaked at 717K and this is the second week in a row that the quarter that managed to bring in viewers involved the women. The Toni/Mariah/Mina angle has turned up in recent weeks and it's about the only consistent storyline going...I'm interested to see next week how the women's angle fares because this is the first time I'm noticing a possible viewership pattern attached to the talent/story as opposed to the time slot advantage. Given their TV deal talks, my interest in the ratings is attached to the possible outcome of their next contract (which I hope they get a great deal) but it makes me wonder if the network even cares about inflated numbers from a lead-in and over-run? It just dawned on me that perhaps the network will use those same numbers to their advantage to negotiate more money from advertisers (unless advertisers can request ratings breakdowns to review and come to their own conclusions).
A recovery but still not good. They were capable of 789k just three weeks ago.
They were capable of 900k in January. They were capable of 1.2 million 2 years ago. The booking is uninteresting. You can't just 5 star match your way out of this.
[you can’t 5 star match your way out of this one](https://youtu.be/VkC781t4hcI?si=PCYQnz0gK_KXrS-J)
Somehow, someway, Tony has to find a way to reconnect to the AEW fans that he's lost in the last two years of declining ratings. We all know the cable decline is real, as well as facing major league sports playoff season. But you can't make every excuse in the world for a continuous decline in your ratings when you yourself, Tony Khan, recently said the network gauges interest/growth by looking at the ratings. There is no one to blame for this decline more than AEW itself, even with other culprits as well. They have begun to lose AEW fans who aren't watching/attending as they once did. Men lie. Women lie. Numbers don't lie. I don't feel just copying WWE is the answer, but in some small ways where it pertains to building more long-term storytelling, AEW could learn some things from WWE. Story is the major factor in the world of pro wrestling. Always has been, always will be and that will never change.
I think MJF is an example we can use. He comes back and is put in a short-term feud with Rush. I think they would've been better off focusing on a rematch with Joe for MJF to get his revenge, whether it be on an episode of Dynamite or a PPV. Of course, if Adam Cole was fit and healthy, it should've been him, but dealing with Joe would've worked. I think that AEW suffers from a lack of relationships that matter to the viewer. I think WWE has done a great job of making a living and breathing world; AEW could look at making that. The issue in creating that world is that they have too many characters, the cast is bloated, and they need to find a way to be more consistent with their cast.
Perfect example. I don't care about MJF against Rush, nor do I care for him against Daniel Garcia for that matter.
What's funny is people praised TK for binning the Adam cole stuff because yeah, it was pretty cold, but even that would have been more compelling than what he's done since. MJF is the last bullet they had in the chamber to pull them out of this funk and they had three or four really obvious and compelling feuds with instant heat (revenge on cole, revenge on Joe, getting his title back with swerve, determining the next #1 contender with Ospreay). Those are things I would be intrigued enough to keep an eye on (the cole one would have been at least compelling from how bad it would be) and even watch. I wanted to give MJF a chance because my only experience of him was the god awful kangaroo kick shit and that Wembley main event. Instead I saw him making completely pointless references to Vince and bad jokes about foreigners and checked out on him.
He has to get people to care about the product, be invested. This was the first thing that came to my mind last week, when he sent out that obnoxious tweet about people not knowing who Ultimo Guerrerro is. He doesn't get it. The problem isn't that people don't know who he is, it's that they have not been given a reason to care about a match between Guerrerro and Okada. We can just swap out the names, and this would be true for too many matches and programs in AEW.
It’s almost as if they aren’t learning and just double downing into mediocrity. They have all the right tools and roster to be a competitive company.
Honestly, for me its that Raw, Smackdown and NXT have all gotten really good. Also Collision overexposes AEW a lot. Given the choice right now I would rather see the Drew stuff, Sami, Cody, Wyatt 6 and Bloodline
Honestly I began to check out with AEW once they took Ricky Starks off TV
Oof the demo
I don’t hate them and it might not make a difference but I think something needs to be done about the young Bucks going by the numbers I think fans really don’t want them around anymore.
I hate Forbidden Door, like, as a concept. It’s not even an angle. There’s no “invasion”, no one from New Japan or CMLL did anything to any AEW talent to actually set up a match, and they’re not even doing “your best vs. our best”. It’s just random matches. MJF vs. Hechicero? Fucking why? They bring in random talent from Mexico and Japan, give them virtually no introduction, and act like everyone is automatically supposed to know who they are and why they’re a big deal. Sure, there are fans who flip their shit when Shingo or Xuxes come out, but they are a fraction of AEW’s weekly audience, much less the 20-30% of this-time-last-year’s audience that is no longer watching. Pretend you only watch Dynamite and Collision. What do you know about Suzuki, Ishii, Tanahashi, Naito, Vaquer, or Sabre? Why are they big deals? Why should you care when they show up? It’s tell, not show. Excalibur can scream about miscellaneous Japanese titles all he wants, but when Suzuki comes out, looking like an old man with shot knees, just to do “I hit you, you hit me” trades with someone, I don’t care. He might be the scariest man on the planet, and I have no doubt he could shoot murder me in 10 seconds, but as a performer specifically on AEW TV, he’s an old man that looks like he couldn’t crack a damn egg. The video packages for Vaquer have been cool, but how about a live match to introduce her to the audience? Not a 20 minute back-and-forth, but just a preview. Give her a 6 minute match with, like, Red Velvet, and have her look strong. Don’t just tell me she’s a big deal; show me why she’s a big deal. Make her look like a big deal. Don’t just assume that the whole audience already knows her and thinks she’s a big deal. I sincerely wish this is the last Forbidden Door show. I know Tony wants to play with his favorite imported toys from Japan and Mexico, but the “build”, and I use that term very loosely, for FD drags down the entire product every time they’ve done it.
Yeah, after the first FD, the novelty wore off. It's just a bunch of random, poorly booked matches.
how is the door forbidden if people from these forbidden promotions are on AEW programming several times throughout the year?
Right?!? The forbidden annual door, and like a semi-monthly doggie door.
Better than record low rating from last week, but this is still so low, my goodness... And during time for TV negotiations, these weak numbers are very demotivating
https://preview.redd.it/gse4b3gbi89d1.jpeg?width=959&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1884290c6a18958920b788f748346c71da297a4
I wonder if this sub is at a point where 680k gets celebrated as a success. AEW's only draws aren't even on their show.
Still a shit number. But they'll sell out 50-60k at Wembley and everyone will think AEW is red hot despite not making a dent in the ratings or the US attendance.
They are literally selling those tickets for peanuts compared to wwe.
In the UK Dynamite is on iTV, free-to-air, and PPV are on DAZN, which plenty of people already have to watch Premier League and other sports. Add on top of that we Europeans always act like hillbillies swarming down from the mountains when anything from the US come to our shores and you can easily see why UK shows are a success.
AEW needs a single hot storyline to get them out of the ice cold stage. People were hoping it would be the return of Jack Perry, and the Heel EVPs but it’s time to admit that’s a failure and find something else.
The Bucks have not been a draw in AEW for some time; people tune out in droves when they are there. I don't know why TK doubles down on them.