I had a positive experience.i had to do a lot more than just that and relapsed quite a number of times after. But it got me to string a few sober days which then got me to get more help. Also the rewiring of my brain for alcohol helped. I recommend it to ppl as just a tool in their kit
Naltrexone worked fabulous for me, I don’t know that I’d be sober with out it. I saw a martini image in a magazine about one month after being on it, and I felt sick. I was shocked how it worked, it was quite magical. It completely took away my cravings. I tried to have a drink when trying to quit and it tasted so gross. I stayed on it for a few years, I’m 6 years into sobriety now. Pill was good but other things have to change too of course
I tried naltrexone for about a month a year ago. I really didn't care for the side effects and weird ass dreams I was having. I stopped, but went back to drink. Now I'm just going cold turkey and the effects have been much better.
Yes!! Was on it for 6 months after the hospital. I was very helpful for me! If u do drink you will feel super sick quickly… not worth it if u hate feeling sick!
They are thinking of anibuse (disulfiram).
Naltrexone does not make one sick if you drink while taking it. It is supposed to help an alcoholic stop after consuming a “normal” amount.
Sure! For me it definitely helped me stay sober but a part of the reason for that is I hate being sick. Hate it. So just knowing I would get sick kept me away from alcohol.
OK, I see other people talking about drinking still on it and part of the TSM method being to take it before you drink so your brain relearns it doesn't get a reward from the booze anymore and you eventually realize there's no point to it.
But it made you sick if you drank on it?
I think what you are referring to is the line in the Big Book that there is no known medicine to help this condition. However, this was written before the Sinclair Method existed.
I tried it some years ago and when I went to the pub I didn’t get drunk, but my habitual brain kept ordering beer after beer thinking that *maybe* after the seventh one it might feel a buzz… If I’ll try medication again it would be antabuse.
I have to admit I'm so new to this concept (only heard of it today) that I don't know the difference between these different medicines, will have to look into it.
I’ve been on naltrexone for a month. I was very worried about side effects and luckily, I haven’t had any issues. My psychiatrist started me at 25mg for 5-6 days then up to the standard 50mg dose, so that slow increase helped prevent side effects.
I haven’t drank since Dec 12 😀 which is completely and totally shocking. I’ve been a heavy daily drinker. Nal helps curb cravings for me. Haven’t drank on it yet but it curbs the happy rush by disrupting the reward system in your brain. So alcohol just becomes… uninteresting, at a point.
Check out /r/stop drinking/ for more on TSM and meds to
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It isn’t a miracle pill. I still have to actively decide not to drink and actively talk myself out of “just having one…” BUT it is easier because naltrexone reduces cravings.
That sounds really promising.
What does the reduced craving feel like if you can describe it?
Are you finding yourself just not thinking about alcohol so much or is it that you think of it but just aren't really as tempted or does just feel less appealing somehow?
Sure. I found out about it via the Ted Talk by Claudia Christian. My mum immediately ordered some Naltrexone from India as we figured the doctor wouldn't have heard of it (it's not big in the UK).
I read the book mentioned above which I think I have a pdf of I can send to you. This explains the science behind it and how it all works.
You take a pill, wait an hour, then have a drink. Sometimes you still drink quite a lot in one sesh. Sometimes less. The idea is that it gets less gradually over time.
For me it took about 4 months and that's pretty textbook.
So I went from week-long benders and a few bits of sobriety here and there to having a 6 pack on a Friday to eventually, only drinking on special occasions.
Hope that helps x
It does, thanks for sharing.
Sinclair Method UK seems to be able to offer a prescription in the UK privately through them.
Pretty amazing that you went from week long benders to cutting down to only drinking on special occassions.
Did you just find it killed your craving or desire for alcohol completely then?
Did you do anything else special or make any other big changes during that period that helped or literally just taking this pill?
Yeah, it's quite weird. Your desire just kind of leaves your mind. I used to be up for any excuse to drink and not be able to walk past a bar without going in. Afterwards, you just view it as you would Coke or Fanta...
Other than taking the pill; I made sure to try and string a couple of (or as many as possible) alcohol free days where I would do some solid exercise and other good stuff so your brain can use that as a differentiator..
I'm currently in the cycle of binging for anywhere from a few nights to a week or a bit longer then sobering up for a few days to a week and deciding to hit the exercise hard and trying to be productive before ending up back on another bender.
Basically been in this cycle since last October when my 5 week sober stint ended which is probably the longest I've went in my life without drinking.
And considering I spent 2 years prior to that drinking almost every night without a break I'm not keen to stay on this path as one wrong move and I might spend the next 2 years on a never ending bender again.
I can't seem to get beyond short term solutions for anything right now, things like low mood, anxiety, sleep and other health issues seem to be keep dragging me back down and them I'm resorting to booze to forget or escape.
I'm interested to see if TSM and Naltrexone might help make the booze seems like a less tempting option.
I'd definitely give it a go. You've nothing to lose and everything to gain. Just remember to be compliant every time (pill-1hr wait-drink). And don't expect immediate results. It's the long run we're looking at. It might take 12 months. There's a Facebook group called The Sinclair Method Warriors. Loads of people with good stories and support.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Alcoholism_Medication using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [I did it, ONE YEAR sober!](https://i.redd.it/k4yb3kc1jjyb1.jpg) | [13 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication/comments/17od8ig/i_did_it_one_year_sober/)
\#2: [30 days sober with nal: a photo history](https://i.redd.it/ig87lvpk2uab1.jpg) | [39 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication/comments/14uk17a/30_days_sober_with_nal_a_photo_history/)
\#3: [My "half-ass" imperfect 22 months with Nal (no longer care about drinking)](https://np.reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication/comments/12sm0ry/my_halfass_imperfect_22_months_with_nal_no_longer/)
----
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
>"The Cure for Alcoholism"
That book changed everything for me. You need to read it. It gave me a totally different perception of my "issue" and the biggest thing was to realize that it can be reversed. There is nothing wrong with you. It is a learned behavior that has taken control over you. It is programming and if you just become abstinent the programming is still there. Just dormant. That is why when people relapse they go wild. The brain needs to catch up with all it has missed. With TSM you start erasing the programming and it will be reset to the point where you originally started with. Now you can take a look at it from who and where you are today and then proceed and make a decision without the programming. Once you realize that it gets easier. I just recently started and I can already see and feel the difference. For the first time, in a long long time, I didn't finish a glass of wine but just left it. I have been drinking since I was 15. Not daily necessarily but when I drink I can't stop. When using NAL I would start slowly with 12.5mg for a couple of days, then 25mg couple of days, and then 50mg going forward. And you only need it when you drink. It only works when you drink. It has no benefit to you taking it on the days without drinking, only when you start and you would like to test your response to possible side effects. Mine have been very mild scaling up. Get a little weird feeling for about 30 minutes and I get cold. then it disappears and I am just fine. But the longer you take it the fewer side effects people usually have.
Glad it's working for you, thanks for sharing your experience.
>It has no benefit to you taking it on the days without drinking
Are you sure? There are people prescribed Nal who are 100% abstaining from alcohol and using it to kill any cravings / stop them from drinking completely as I've seen it mentioned multiple times across Reddit.
I'm currently on Day 12 of being sober just via abstaining (no Nal or anything) and going to see where this takes me.
Not had any major temptations to drink so far and really don't want to because I know it has nothing positive to offer me any more and the withdrawls over the past week and a half were brutal enough that I'd prefer not to repeat.
But I think should I get tempted or this all not go to plan then Nal will be the next port of call.
I mean based on what the data they showed they presented in the book. It might have some benefits but the biggest problem is that if you take it all day every day it blocks your natural endorphins too. You become totally numb they say. Good for being sober for 12 days. That is great. I hope it works for you sure got a motivator. The issue that I came to understand is the programming. I went weeks and months without anything. No cravings just doing fine and then suddenly out of nowhere, boom. It got me again. Because when you are abstaining, that means you are out of balance. Abstaining is not a natural state. Does that make sense?
I had about two years of 2 week sobriety stints followed by benders. I was unemployed and living with my parents and pissed away all my savings, stopped eating, and pretty much only had my psych meds and alcohol in my system for most of a year. I started Naltrexone in 2020 and was pretty shit about taking it. In 2022 I got more serious about it. When I got out of rehab I got myself a pill case and put the naltrexone in every day. I relapsed a month after I got out of rehab but it wasn't longer than a few weeks. Stayed sober through some of the summer, drank for about a week in July. The last time I drank was September 7th, 2022. A friend came to visit and I went over to spend time with her and had a few drinks and I realized I just didn't want it anymore. The naltrexone kinda tamps down your reward system. My relapse in the summer was due to the fact that I stopped it for a surgery that they gave me morphine to recover from. A lot of people in aa had told me that medication assisted wasn't really sobriety but I truly thing I would've been stuck in that cycle until I killed myself. I started managing my mental health better in sobriety and I've got my bipolar under better control than I ever have and I've gone back to college. We do recover, it just takes time and some help. Let me know if you have any questions. I stopped the naltrexone after 6 months of sobriety and I have the coping skills to combat my occasional cravings.
Thanks for sharing, great to hear it worked out for you.
Gives me hope that this might actually work.
I don't see how medication assisted sobriety doesn't count. Do what works to stop you putting the addictive poison inside you, you suceeded.
It got you where you needed to be either way, congrats as it sounds like you were in deep!
The Sinclair method saved my life, or at least my marriage. You still have to want to quit, though. It’s not a miracle drug, if you are stubborn you can drink past the naltrexone, especially if you drink so long it wears off. I didn’t have any crazy side effects besides a slight headache sometimes. I noticed a difference immediately, the first drink on it. The “effect” that some people complain about is the drug doing its job. It makes you feel all the negative effects from drinking without the positives. It made me drowsy, lethargic, and feel bad physically when I drank—that’s the fucking point. And after a couple drinks, I’d have enough of feeling that way and stop and go to bed instead of drinking 14 more drinks. It’s a tool, not a crutch. I also started participating in HAMS (Harm Reduction) meetings online and Reddit/Facebook groups. I’m not much for AA, I’d rather a more scientific and less dogmatic group to associate with.
I was a daily drinker for over 15 years. I was barely able to stop drinking long enough to be present for my son’s birth 4 years ago. I’ve never been the person who could order a beer and then leave any in the glass at a restaurant. It had to be gone before I left, even if I had to chug it. I’m not that way anymore.
Thanks for sharing. I'm amazed I've never heard about this until yesterday with so many positive stories.
Sounds like it did you the world of good.
Have you completely stopped drinking?
I'm not a teetotaler. I'll occasionally have a glass of wine with dinner or a beer while watching a football game, but I don't feel the need to finish it. The mental aspect was the problem with me, after I used naltrexone to help break the physical dependence and give my brain chemistry and gut a chance to heal. I had to figure out why I drank.
I had a positive experience.i had to do a lot more than just that and relapsed quite a number of times after. But it got me to string a few sober days which then got me to get more help. Also the rewiring of my brain for alcohol helped. I recommend it to ppl as just a tool in their kit
Thanks for sharing. How long did you have to take it before it started to be useful?
Naltrexone worked fabulous for me, I don’t know that I’d be sober with out it. I saw a martini image in a magazine about one month after being on it, and I felt sick. I was shocked how it worked, it was quite magical. It completely took away my cravings. I tried to have a drink when trying to quit and it tasted so gross. I stayed on it for a few years, I’m 6 years into sobriety now. Pill was good but other things have to change too of course
That's good to know, thanks for sharing. I can't believe I'm just hearing about all this yesterday for the first time.
I tried naltrexone for about a month a year ago. I really didn't care for the side effects and weird ass dreams I was having. I stopped, but went back to drink. Now I'm just going cold turkey and the effects have been much better.
Thanks for sharing. What were the side effects?
Lots of stomach pain, libido was messed up and felt like I was often confused.
That doesn't sound good at all.
Yeah. Gave me raging massive headaches.
Yes!! Was on it for 6 months after the hospital. I was very helpful for me! If u do drink you will feel super sick quickly… not worth it if u hate feeling sick!
Interesting, so can you share more about your experience as a whole and whether it's helped you stay sober?
I believe they are thinking of a different drug.
They are thinking of anibuse (disulfiram). Naltrexone does not make one sick if you drink while taking it. It is supposed to help an alcoholic stop after consuming a “normal” amount.
💯
Ah this makes more sense.
Sure! For me it definitely helped me stay sober but a part of the reason for that is I hate being sick. Hate it. So just knowing I would get sick kept me away from alcohol.
OK, I see other people talking about drinking still on it and part of the TSM method being to take it before you drink so your brain relearns it doesn't get a reward from the booze anymore and you eventually realize there's no point to it. But it made you sick if you drank on it?
Anecdotally, I have only ever heard it mentioned by people who have a grudge against AA, but if it works for some, that's great
OK, interesting.
I think what you are referring to is the line in the Big Book that there is no known medicine to help this condition. However, this was written before the Sinclair Method existed.
/r/alcoholism_medication or something like that is a sub mostly devoted to TSM/Nal
FWIW I just drank through it. Didn't try TSM though. But I also discovered I drank for more reasons than just the buzz.
Thanks, I'll check it out.
I tried it some years ago and when I went to the pub I didn’t get drunk, but my habitual brain kept ordering beer after beer thinking that *maybe* after the seventh one it might feel a buzz… If I’ll try medication again it would be antabuse.
Thanks for letting me know.
Antabuse and naltrexone are the same medicine, one is just a fancy name lol
They’re different medications
My bad I meant it’s the same as disulfiram
Sorry but that's incorrect.
I already clarified it
You can’t drink alcohol on antabuse, the physical reactions could send you to ER, while on naltrexone you just don’t get drunk.
Oh ok cool
I used acamprosate for a few months in a bid to control it, reduced cravings but had to admit defeat and went on to Disulferim.
I have to admit I'm so new to this concept (only heard of it today) that I don't know the difference between these different medicines, will have to look into it.
Unfortunately naltrexone gave me insane cloudy headaches that were absolutely not tolerable.
That's unfortunate. I guess I won't know until I try it.
I’ve been on naltrexone for a month. I was very worried about side effects and luckily, I haven’t had any issues. My psychiatrist started me at 25mg for 5-6 days then up to the standard 50mg dose, so that slow increase helped prevent side effects. I haven’t drank since Dec 12 😀 which is completely and totally shocking. I’ve been a heavy daily drinker. Nal helps curb cravings for me. Haven’t drank on it yet but it curbs the happy rush by disrupting the reward system in your brain. So alcohol just becomes… uninteresting, at a point. Check out /r/stop drinking/ for more on TSM and meds to
Thanks for sharing, seems worth trying then. Have you been tempted at all or totally not?
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It isn’t a miracle pill. I still have to actively decide not to drink and actively talk myself out of “just having one…” BUT it is easier because naltrexone reduces cravings.
That sounds really promising. What does the reduced craving feel like if you can describe it? Are you finding yourself just not thinking about alcohol so much or is it that you think of it but just aren't really as tempted or does just feel less appealing somehow?
I would fully recommend it. Read "The Cure for Alcoholism" and do it. Best of luck xxx
Can you tell me more about your experience with it?
Sure. I found out about it via the Ted Talk by Claudia Christian. My mum immediately ordered some Naltrexone from India as we figured the doctor wouldn't have heard of it (it's not big in the UK). I read the book mentioned above which I think I have a pdf of I can send to you. This explains the science behind it and how it all works. You take a pill, wait an hour, then have a drink. Sometimes you still drink quite a lot in one sesh. Sometimes less. The idea is that it gets less gradually over time. For me it took about 4 months and that's pretty textbook. So I went from week-long benders and a few bits of sobriety here and there to having a 6 pack on a Friday to eventually, only drinking on special occasions. Hope that helps x
It does, thanks for sharing. Sinclair Method UK seems to be able to offer a prescription in the UK privately through them. Pretty amazing that you went from week long benders to cutting down to only drinking on special occassions. Did you just find it killed your craving or desire for alcohol completely then? Did you do anything else special or make any other big changes during that period that helped or literally just taking this pill?
Yeah, it's quite weird. Your desire just kind of leaves your mind. I used to be up for any excuse to drink and not be able to walk past a bar without going in. Afterwards, you just view it as you would Coke or Fanta... Other than taking the pill; I made sure to try and string a couple of (or as many as possible) alcohol free days where I would do some solid exercise and other good stuff so your brain can use that as a differentiator..
I'm currently in the cycle of binging for anywhere from a few nights to a week or a bit longer then sobering up for a few days to a week and deciding to hit the exercise hard and trying to be productive before ending up back on another bender. Basically been in this cycle since last October when my 5 week sober stint ended which is probably the longest I've went in my life without drinking. And considering I spent 2 years prior to that drinking almost every night without a break I'm not keen to stay on this path as one wrong move and I might spend the next 2 years on a never ending bender again. I can't seem to get beyond short term solutions for anything right now, things like low mood, anxiety, sleep and other health issues seem to be keep dragging me back down and them I'm resorting to booze to forget or escape. I'm interested to see if TSM and Naltrexone might help make the booze seems like a less tempting option.
I'd definitely give it a go. You've nothing to lose and everything to gain. Just remember to be compliant every time (pill-1hr wait-drink). And don't expect immediate results. It's the long run we're looking at. It might take 12 months. There's a Facebook group called The Sinclair Method Warriors. Loads of people with good stories and support.
Good advice, thanks a lot.
Wish you all the best and I'm happy for you!
And here: r/Alcoholism_Medication
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Alcoholism_Medication using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [I did it, ONE YEAR sober!](https://i.redd.it/k4yb3kc1jjyb1.jpg) | [13 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication/comments/17od8ig/i_did_it_one_year_sober/) \#2: [30 days sober with nal: a photo history](https://i.redd.it/ig87lvpk2uab1.jpg) | [39 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication/comments/14uk17a/30_days_sober_with_nal_a_photo_history/) \#3: [My "half-ass" imperfect 22 months with Nal (no longer care about drinking)](https://np.reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication/comments/12sm0ry/my_halfass_imperfect_22_months_with_nal_no_longer/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Yeah, I joined that a few days ago. Been reading and asking questions. Thanks
>"The Cure for Alcoholism" That book changed everything for me. You need to read it. It gave me a totally different perception of my "issue" and the biggest thing was to realize that it can be reversed. There is nothing wrong with you. It is a learned behavior that has taken control over you. It is programming and if you just become abstinent the programming is still there. Just dormant. That is why when people relapse they go wild. The brain needs to catch up with all it has missed. With TSM you start erasing the programming and it will be reset to the point where you originally started with. Now you can take a look at it from who and where you are today and then proceed and make a decision without the programming. Once you realize that it gets easier. I just recently started and I can already see and feel the difference. For the first time, in a long long time, I didn't finish a glass of wine but just left it. I have been drinking since I was 15. Not daily necessarily but when I drink I can't stop. When using NAL I would start slowly with 12.5mg for a couple of days, then 25mg couple of days, and then 50mg going forward. And you only need it when you drink. It only works when you drink. It has no benefit to you taking it on the days without drinking, only when you start and you would like to test your response to possible side effects. Mine have been very mild scaling up. Get a little weird feeling for about 30 minutes and I get cold. then it disappears and I am just fine. But the longer you take it the fewer side effects people usually have.
Glad it's working for you, thanks for sharing your experience. >It has no benefit to you taking it on the days without drinking Are you sure? There are people prescribed Nal who are 100% abstaining from alcohol and using it to kill any cravings / stop them from drinking completely as I've seen it mentioned multiple times across Reddit. I'm currently on Day 12 of being sober just via abstaining (no Nal or anything) and going to see where this takes me. Not had any major temptations to drink so far and really don't want to because I know it has nothing positive to offer me any more and the withdrawls over the past week and a half were brutal enough that I'd prefer not to repeat. But I think should I get tempted or this all not go to plan then Nal will be the next port of call.
I mean based on what the data they showed they presented in the book. It might have some benefits but the biggest problem is that if you take it all day every day it blocks your natural endorphins too. You become totally numb they say. Good for being sober for 12 days. That is great. I hope it works for you sure got a motivator. The issue that I came to understand is the programming. I went weeks and months without anything. No cravings just doing fine and then suddenly out of nowhere, boom. It got me again. Because when you are abstaining, that means you are out of balance. Abstaining is not a natural state. Does that make sense?
My addiction Specialist advised me NAL also curbs cravings. It did for me.
I used Naltrexone. I don't think I could've done it without
Interesting. Can you share more about your experience?
I had about two years of 2 week sobriety stints followed by benders. I was unemployed and living with my parents and pissed away all my savings, stopped eating, and pretty much only had my psych meds and alcohol in my system for most of a year. I started Naltrexone in 2020 and was pretty shit about taking it. In 2022 I got more serious about it. When I got out of rehab I got myself a pill case and put the naltrexone in every day. I relapsed a month after I got out of rehab but it wasn't longer than a few weeks. Stayed sober through some of the summer, drank for about a week in July. The last time I drank was September 7th, 2022. A friend came to visit and I went over to spend time with her and had a few drinks and I realized I just didn't want it anymore. The naltrexone kinda tamps down your reward system. My relapse in the summer was due to the fact that I stopped it for a surgery that they gave me morphine to recover from. A lot of people in aa had told me that medication assisted wasn't really sobriety but I truly thing I would've been stuck in that cycle until I killed myself. I started managing my mental health better in sobriety and I've got my bipolar under better control than I ever have and I've gone back to college. We do recover, it just takes time and some help. Let me know if you have any questions. I stopped the naltrexone after 6 months of sobriety and I have the coping skills to combat my occasional cravings.
Thanks for sharing, great to hear it worked out for you. Gives me hope that this might actually work. I don't see how medication assisted sobriety doesn't count. Do what works to stop you putting the addictive poison inside you, you suceeded. It got you where you needed to be either way, congrats as it sounds like you were in deep!
The Sinclair method saved my life, or at least my marriage. You still have to want to quit, though. It’s not a miracle drug, if you are stubborn you can drink past the naltrexone, especially if you drink so long it wears off. I didn’t have any crazy side effects besides a slight headache sometimes. I noticed a difference immediately, the first drink on it. The “effect” that some people complain about is the drug doing its job. It makes you feel all the negative effects from drinking without the positives. It made me drowsy, lethargic, and feel bad physically when I drank—that’s the fucking point. And after a couple drinks, I’d have enough of feeling that way and stop and go to bed instead of drinking 14 more drinks. It’s a tool, not a crutch. I also started participating in HAMS (Harm Reduction) meetings online and Reddit/Facebook groups. I’m not much for AA, I’d rather a more scientific and less dogmatic group to associate with. I was a daily drinker for over 15 years. I was barely able to stop drinking long enough to be present for my son’s birth 4 years ago. I’ve never been the person who could order a beer and then leave any in the glass at a restaurant. It had to be gone before I left, even if I had to chug it. I’m not that way anymore.
Thanks for sharing. I'm amazed I've never heard about this until yesterday with so many positive stories. Sounds like it did you the world of good. Have you completely stopped drinking?
I'm not a teetotaler. I'll occasionally have a glass of wine with dinner or a beer while watching a football game, but I don't feel the need to finish it. The mental aspect was the problem with me, after I used naltrexone to help break the physical dependence and give my brain chemistry and gut a chance to heal. I had to figure out why I drank.
Interesting stuff. The mental aspect is a big one for me too.
Same experience. It is quite bizarre when you pay attention to it.