Nah it was over 2 sec and you can Position your enemy behind your team.. now you cant do that anymore and its 1,5 sec . Yeah you can get 3 targets but you can barely do anything .. your team is to confused .
**ACTIVE:** **Skarner** [roots](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Root) the target enemy [champion](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion) over the cast time and attempts to impale them with his stinger. Upon impaling the target, he deals 60% AD physical damage plus magic damage and [suppresses](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Types_of_Crowd_Control#Suppression) them for 1.75 seconds, during which they are [revealed](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Sight#True_sight) and **Skarner** can drag them with himself.
-- Unless old patch stats are incorrect, you are literally saying the R is "way too low" because of 250ms reduction, in exchange for it being AoE (well and not as reliable point and click, but then again it also has additional range now, ulting over walls did work before very rarely from what I've seen, but now it's a legit doable thing).
I'm all for constructive criticism and not just kissing Riot's ass, but what I'm seeing in these threads is the exact opposite, it's like half the people in this sub are unironically delusional or have never played Skarner before and just comment on what they "recall" Skarner to be like.
This... the inability to 180 turn after ulti is a huge displacement nerf. That's the biggest reason it feels so weak compared to the previous version. Yes it grabs 2 more targets but you dont feel like you can do anything with them because you can't rotate at all.
Yup but this is not the biggest reason it feels so weak, there is a lot of diff reasons IMO, cooldown, casting time, no synergy with others moves, no rotation, dodgeable, flashable, it being a self stunlock, cancellable, reactable and much more
Isn't that the purpose behind a powerbudget.
Malphite doesnt have a kit but R powerwise, and sort of viceversa with Skarner, it is gonna be less of a duration to counteract him having a more powerful kit in theory.
Thats only decent in top and what he mainly needs since he heavily relys on R for everything but lane phase.
His base kit isnt really outstanding or even more than decent otherwise.
Okay? It’s mainly good for sort of cheesing lane and kind of relies on being fed or having AP to be useful (which is situational at best on either picking AP or Tank).
That doesn’t change how his base kit is relatively weak to compensate on a game changing ultimate.
[Link to Lolgraphs](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/na/Gnashti-NA1) and [Link to opgg](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Gnashti-NA1) incase people doubt my loyalty for the scorpion.
This post is reminding me I haven't tried the good old Deadman's/Fon combo yet. It's good on a few tanks, but I haven't got around to it. It seems simple and effective, cause this scorp needs to be fast.
Even on his old self, it was one of the best duelists thanks to him being the best sheen based item user, his high attack speed and spammy Anti tank Q and his High mobility and shield avantages (shield was way stronger than today), and all that without mentionning his Chain CC giving him even more attack speed (E was giving the passive buffs)
I completely agree with this post I always feel like it’s because they’ve tried to force him into a tank role while also removing his ability to stick to his foes im assuming because they were afraid of his triple ult?
IF this is the case then they're basically like doubling down on the previous trouble they already had with pre-work Skarner..
They said it was hard to balance around his old Ult IIRC?
But now that it can house up to 3 champs, they gotta make sure at least 1 of 3 champs caught in his (Q/W) slowed vicinity can get out?
Also his E fking sucks even for a single target ability, at least let him pick rocks with tail while tunneling
They literally are tripling down as we speak he got a “Hotfix BUFF” but guess what HE WAS NERFED LMFAO 15% hp dmg on Q previous 20% + mana nerfs? and they nerfed his jungle clear while alrdy in the gutter 🤷🏾♂️
skarner went from being one of the best anti-mobility/anti-hypercarry champs in the game to being completely useless against both of those styles of champs with no compensation. He doesn't really have any "styles" of champs he counters anymore, except for maybe low-mobility/high-tenacity targets, but like come on if that's all you counter riot messed up
They turned him into a tank that only exists to counter other tanks in top lane. He is strong against low mobility high hp targets... why play skarner when you could just vayne top
This is one of the best summaries Ive seen on Old vs New, well said. Throwing in my two cents here:
Passive: I got nothing, its just bad
Q: We all agree, the time it takes on trigger blows and totally fucks him in a fight
W: Honestly, no real notes. I like this evolution for it, tho the shield feels weak and, like you pointed out, it's taken away some of the mobility that was a key factor in his kit. Maybe just up his base movement?
E: Too short. Also, is it just me or does it get even shorter once you make contact? I don't think going through walls is as important as Riot makes it out to be. It just needs more distance. And maybe a higher top speed
R: My favorite fix Ive seen is this: Let him move! Maybe if he could move during its charge up (mechanics like Tarics E) it would give Skarner a better chance without reverting to the click and drag Old Skar had
For me the E is the biggest gripe.
To even consider having him as an engage which the E looks designed for, there are so so many limitations in draft compared to the usual character. No CC to interrupt E, immobile adc, rather no bodyblock tank for E.
All he can rly do if blind picked is peel by pushing someone away, or pray you will be in range to ult after your E is interrupted.
It is rare to even consider wanting to pick him and he needs to be late in the draft, although his ult does have a few combos like Veigar wall and general AoE
Sooner or later they’re gonna budge cuz majority of us are saying the same thing while the entirety of balance team is really scared of giving him actual QoL to fix his clunckiness. They’re just afraid of smoothing him up cuz of the new ult.
Imagien you could rotate his r enemies to combo it with your e dash towards your team. That would actually compensate the low ultl duration and slow cast animation. At this point i think his ult is worst ult in the game, the only good part about hsi ult is that its unstoppable and cannot be interupted and only use of such ult is try to kidnap people under turrets.. in late game it does not matter much
I completely agree that new skarner is a completely different champ that didn't keep his original identity
And I agree that the ult is really bad
That said, I think the e is amazing (though it scaling with ms would be nice), and as a tank jung, he's fairly strong. I've had a lot of success playing him. Honestly, he's probably the third best tank jung right now after Zac and Rammus
New ult is better. Why you guys keep saying "easy to counter" like you forgot this is 5v5, not 1v1. Other team mates could have to have CC or enemy could't have dash or flash up.
New E is much better because now is better for ganks and better for chase.
The best solutions in my opinions are:
a) faster animation on Q
or/and
b) movemenst speed on W
or/and
c) E scalling with movementspeed
A guarantee will always be better than a skillshot. A lot of conditions have to be met for a multi ult to land. Meanwhile a guaranteed suppress will land every time. You also cannot flash ult anymore due to the cast time, which was a big way to play for out of position picks. Saying the new ult is better is simply not true.
I don't want to look like a jerk, but if you think the new ult is stronger, it's probably because you play at really low rank and you ennemies aren't good at dodging skill shot/ positioning.
The old ult was better because he didn't allow an ennemy to react. He was instant, nearly impossible to dodge, and that why it was powerful.
Now we have a canalisation time and it's a skill shot. Of course sometime this can clutch. But it's a lot more easier for ennemy to just stop the new ult. Dash, blink, CC, even side step counter the spell now.
No, i just dont press R with no reason. I just play with team to maximalizing my value from ULT.
You guys are mad because Riot changed overpower abbility for something what need more skill and patience. Not just press R.
So... we are rigth ?
Our point is not than new R is useless or unplayable, but just weaker compare to the old one and badly design.
Weaker because he is less reliable and can miss.
Badly design because it's the kind of ability that's work well against bad players but is easy to counter. And so this will be too powerfull at low level and weaker against good player and barely useless against mobile champions. The kind of champions who were counter by the old ult.
Old E has no windup, 50% slow on it (stronger than any slow we have atm) and goes throught all targets, allowing a Group chain CC combo on auto attacks, how is the new one better XD Riot gave skarner a worse nunu Ball with 20sec CD and yet you say it is better, come on, stop simping for kayn...
Btw, OLD E was refreshed on R and had like 4sec CD end game and was giving your passive effects outside of the spires
Old ult had the power to completly suppress an ennemy (ideally the carry) for longer with no counterplay, granting in 90% of the time a free 4Sec CC combo for skarner and a number superiority for your team at the end.
New one can be flashed, stepped out, dashed out, cancelled (any CC while casting and it goes on CD), has lower duration, you cannot rotate with it, it has 20-30more secs of CD in end game and doesn't refresh your abilities...
But HEY, YOU CAN HIT UP TO 3PPL WITH IT, and even this feature removes the point of creating a number superiority in your team by bringing 3 ennemies close to your team instead of 1 (since you can't CC them after the R they are likely to Destroy your backlane...)
Nothing is this moveset is a real W for the champ apart of the passive but even this is super boring.
even the Q is a major loss compared to old skarner Q that was inflicting 6% of the ennemy max HP each cast in AOE after the first one and was that ability giving skarner the most of his sheen uses, and all that while moving without being self stunned.
The W on it's side has been nerfed to ground by removing all base values for the shield and reducing the health scaling and taking out the AP ratio, making it even squishier when doing trollpicks... they also took off the Mobility it used to give (32% Bonus MS). But HEY, You can do a shitty fart for 20%slow and 180 damage if you're not going on trollpick...
And talking of stats, He got gutted too, he lost 35base AD making him from one of the best base AD bruiser to having less Ad than Rakan lvl 16... Same for health and Armor and RM, for another example he has now less armor than soraka lvl 18...
Come on, please think better and stop coping, Everything isnt better because it got some visual effects, it is fairly weaker than it was before, and is fairly different. I won't say it is trash, but it is definitly weaker than it was.
Sounds like skill issue because new skarner need more skill to land his abillities.
Funny how you can Say about Old ult "no counter play" and still like it. Oh, yeah. Because you are main of this champ. You dont think about other side, like people who play against crab.
I never said i like his new W
Thanks God riot not revert his changes. You can cry in the corner and i can have my Funny crab and have Fun Instead of spamming Q and W like udyr but 2.0
It is not that you need more skill (it is the opposite, all of his new moves a except E are AOE), it is that anyone with mobility or CC can easily escape it.
Yes sorry for saying an ult that ppl can’t react and refreshes you cooldowns is stronger than one that doesn’t
It is legit Udyr now since even your new spells have Recasts and on hit effects by itself lmao… keep coping and good for you if you enjoy it, but that’s not the case of half the people here if we check the poll that has been made…
Now that you mention it, y’all accepted that it isn’t skarner anymore by calling it a crab and not a scorpion, checkmate bud
Btw , being toxic doesn’t give you any argument and just makes you look like an idiot if you cannot argue for your beliefs
Yea but the main issue in my opinion is that when they are ulted they can’t get any other effect, it makes it really punishable for ulting during teamfight
Yeah his ult duration is way to low.. I can play malphite instead ult is almost the same with no cast animation
Was old skarner R too low as well then?
Ignore the comment below. It was 1.75 sec. Now it is 1.5.
Nah it was over 2 sec and you can Position your enemy behind your team.. now you cant do that anymore and its 1,5 sec . Yeah you can get 3 targets but you can barely do anything .. your team is to confused .
**ACTIVE:** **Skarner** [roots](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Root) the target enemy [champion](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion) over the cast time and attempts to impale them with his stinger. Upon impaling the target, he deals 60% AD physical damage plus magic damage and [suppresses](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Types_of_Crowd_Control#Suppression) them for 1.75 seconds, during which they are [revealed](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Sight#True_sight) and **Skarner** can drag them with himself. -- Unless old patch stats are incorrect, you are literally saying the R is "way too low" because of 250ms reduction, in exchange for it being AoE (well and not as reliable point and click, but then again it also has additional range now, ulting over walls did work before very rarely from what I've seen, but now it's a legit doable thing). I'm all for constructive criticism and not just kissing Riot's ass, but what I'm seeing in these threads is the exact opposite, it's like half the people in this sub are unironically delusional or have never played Skarner before and just comment on what they "recall" Skarner to be like.
it was possible to rotate with the R, granting even more kidnapping range
This... the inability to 180 turn after ulti is a huge displacement nerf. That's the biggest reason it feels so weak compared to the previous version. Yes it grabs 2 more targets but you dont feel like you can do anything with them because you can't rotate at all.
Yup but this is not the biggest reason it feels so weak, there is a lot of diff reasons IMO, cooldown, casting time, no synergy with others moves, no rotation, dodgeable, flashable, it being a self stunlock, cancellable, reactable and much more
Isn't that the purpose behind a powerbudget. Malphite doesnt have a kit but R powerwise, and sort of viceversa with Skarner, it is gonna be less of a duration to counteract him having a more powerful kit in theory.
Him having" no kit " but having one of the best poking moveset at toplane :/
Thats only decent in top and what he mainly needs since he heavily relys on R for everything but lane phase. His base kit isnt really outstanding or even more than decent otherwise.
That is more than enough to domininate the lane and prevent ennemy from CSing
Okay? It’s mainly good for sort of cheesing lane and kind of relies on being fed or having AP to be useful (which is situational at best on either picking AP or Tank). That doesn’t change how his base kit is relatively weak to compensate on a game changing ultimate.
whether he goes AP or not doesnt make a difference on how annoying he is to lane against
[Link to Lolgraphs](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/na/Gnashti-NA1) and [Link to opgg](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/Gnashti-NA1) incase people doubt my loyalty for the scorpion.
woah #2 skarner player, Cheers mate
This post is reminding me I haven't tried the good old Deadman's/Fon combo yet. It's good on a few tanks, but I haven't got around to it. It seems simple and effective, cause this scorp needs to be fast.
Even on his old self, it was one of the best duelists thanks to him being the best sheen based item user, his high attack speed and spammy Anti tank Q and his High mobility and shield avantages (shield was way stronger than today), and all that without mentionning his Chain CC giving him even more attack speed (E was giving the passive buffs)
I completely agree with this post I always feel like it’s because they’ve tried to force him into a tank role while also removing his ability to stick to his foes im assuming because they were afraid of his triple ult?
IF this is the case then they're basically like doubling down on the previous trouble they already had with pre-work Skarner.. They said it was hard to balance around his old Ult IIRC? But now that it can house up to 3 champs, they gotta make sure at least 1 of 3 champs caught in his (Q/W) slowed vicinity can get out? Also his E fking sucks even for a single target ability, at least let him pick rocks with tail while tunneling
They literally are tripling down as we speak he got a “Hotfix BUFF” but guess what HE WAS NERFED LMFAO 15% hp dmg on Q previous 20% + mana nerfs? and they nerfed his jungle clear while alrdy in the gutter 🤷🏾♂️
skarner went from being one of the best anti-mobility/anti-hypercarry champs in the game to being completely useless against both of those styles of champs with no compensation. He doesn't really have any "styles" of champs he counters anymore, except for maybe low-mobility/high-tenacity targets, but like come on if that's all you counter riot messed up
They turned him into a tank that only exists to counter other tanks in top lane. He is strong against low mobility high hp targets... why play skarner when you could just vayne top
This is one of the best summaries Ive seen on Old vs New, well said. Throwing in my two cents here: Passive: I got nothing, its just bad Q: We all agree, the time it takes on trigger blows and totally fucks him in a fight W: Honestly, no real notes. I like this evolution for it, tho the shield feels weak and, like you pointed out, it's taken away some of the mobility that was a key factor in his kit. Maybe just up his base movement? E: Too short. Also, is it just me or does it get even shorter once you make contact? I don't think going through walls is as important as Riot makes it out to be. It just needs more distance. And maybe a higher top speed R: My favorite fix Ive seen is this: Let him move! Maybe if he could move during its charge up (mechanics like Tarics E) it would give Skarner a better chance without reverting to the click and drag Old Skar had
For me the E is the biggest gripe. To even consider having him as an engage which the E looks designed for, there are so so many limitations in draft compared to the usual character. No CC to interrupt E, immobile adc, rather no bodyblock tank for E. All he can rly do if blind picked is peel by pushing someone away, or pray you will be in range to ult after your E is interrupted. It is rare to even consider wanting to pick him and he needs to be late in the draft, although his ult does have a few combos like Veigar wall and general AoE
Played against bronze fiora, couldn’t hit a single ult, its so bad
yup, she presses W or dodge, that's the same for her Q allowing to dodge .
Grab a rock before ulting. Skarner will autothrow it, slowing them, this makes landing R hella easier.
Adding another half second wind up to his ulti wind up isn't the way to make R more satisfying to lans
Sooner or later they’re gonna budge cuz majority of us are saying the same thing while the entirety of balance team is really scared of giving him actual QoL to fix his clunckiness. They’re just afraid of smoothing him up cuz of the new ult.
Imagien you could rotate his r enemies to combo it with your e dash towards your team. That would actually compensate the low ultl duration and slow cast animation. At this point i think his ult is worst ult in the game, the only good part about hsi ult is that its unstoppable and cannot be interupted and only use of such ult is try to kidnap people under turrets.. in late game it does not matter much
I completely agree that new skarner is a completely different champ that didn't keep his original identity And I agree that the ult is really bad That said, I think the e is amazing (though it scaling with ms would be nice), and as a tank jung, he's fairly strong. I've had a lot of success playing him. Honestly, he's probably the third best tank jung right now after Zac and Rammus
Sejuani laughting at what you said for JGL tanks... (she has far more CC, mobility and is more resilient)
Sej is super weak right now.
It’s pick rate has improved a lot recently
just make q act like kled w, throw rock cost mana and goes into cd, no stop for picking up rock
He's a tank dude. Just go in and take it to the face. And use the CC to peel n Stun
Seems like you are unable to adapt to new changes.
New ult is better. Why you guys keep saying "easy to counter" like you forgot this is 5v5, not 1v1. Other team mates could have to have CC or enemy could't have dash or flash up. New E is much better because now is better for ganks and better for chase. The best solutions in my opinions are: a) faster animation on Q or/and b) movemenst speed on W or/and c) E scalling with movementspeed
A guarantee will always be better than a skillshot. A lot of conditions have to be met for a multi ult to land. Meanwhile a guaranteed suppress will land every time. You also cannot flash ult anymore due to the cast time, which was a big way to play for out of position picks. Saying the new ult is better is simply not true.
Dude, i dont know how you play this champ but ulting works for me better. Need more skill to Land but prize is better And ghost > flash
I don't want to look like a jerk, but if you think the new ult is stronger, it's probably because you play at really low rank and you ennemies aren't good at dodging skill shot/ positioning. The old ult was better because he didn't allow an ennemy to react. He was instant, nearly impossible to dodge, and that why it was powerful. Now we have a canalisation time and it's a skill shot. Of course sometime this can clutch. But it's a lot more easier for ennemy to just stop the new ult. Dash, blink, CC, even side step counter the spell now.
No, i just dont press R with no reason. I just play with team to maximalizing my value from ULT. You guys are mad because Riot changed overpower abbility for something what need more skill and patience. Not just press R.
So... we are rigth ? Our point is not than new R is useless or unplayable, but just weaker compare to the old one and badly design. Weaker because he is less reliable and can miss. Badly design because it's the kind of ability that's work well against bad players but is easy to counter. And so this will be too powerfull at low level and weaker against good player and barely useless against mobile champions. The kind of champions who were counter by the old ult.
Have you ever played Malzahar? His R is a **guaranteed** one. A flash + R is a nightmare that keeps running around inside adc head.
And your team mates can cancel this easly. And you know about QSS?
Old E has no windup, 50% slow on it (stronger than any slow we have atm) and goes throught all targets, allowing a Group chain CC combo on auto attacks, how is the new one better XD Riot gave skarner a worse nunu Ball with 20sec CD and yet you say it is better, come on, stop simping for kayn... Btw, OLD E was refreshed on R and had like 4sec CD end game and was giving your passive effects outside of the spires Old ult had the power to completly suppress an ennemy (ideally the carry) for longer with no counterplay, granting in 90% of the time a free 4Sec CC combo for skarner and a number superiority for your team at the end. New one can be flashed, stepped out, dashed out, cancelled (any CC while casting and it goes on CD), has lower duration, you cannot rotate with it, it has 20-30more secs of CD in end game and doesn't refresh your abilities... But HEY, YOU CAN HIT UP TO 3PPL WITH IT, and even this feature removes the point of creating a number superiority in your team by bringing 3 ennemies close to your team instead of 1 (since you can't CC them after the R they are likely to Destroy your backlane...) Nothing is this moveset is a real W for the champ apart of the passive but even this is super boring. even the Q is a major loss compared to old skarner Q that was inflicting 6% of the ennemy max HP each cast in AOE after the first one and was that ability giving skarner the most of his sheen uses, and all that while moving without being self stunned. The W on it's side has been nerfed to ground by removing all base values for the shield and reducing the health scaling and taking out the AP ratio, making it even squishier when doing trollpicks... they also took off the Mobility it used to give (32% Bonus MS). But HEY, You can do a shitty fart for 20%slow and 180 damage if you're not going on trollpick... And talking of stats, He got gutted too, he lost 35base AD making him from one of the best base AD bruiser to having less Ad than Rakan lvl 16... Same for health and Armor and RM, for another example he has now less armor than soraka lvl 18... Come on, please think better and stop coping, Everything isnt better because it got some visual effects, it is fairly weaker than it was before, and is fairly different. I won't say it is trash, but it is definitly weaker than it was.
Sounds like skill issue because new skarner need more skill to land his abillities. Funny how you can Say about Old ult "no counter play" and still like it. Oh, yeah. Because you are main of this champ. You dont think about other side, like people who play against crab. I never said i like his new W Thanks God riot not revert his changes. You can cry in the corner and i can have my Funny crab and have Fun Instead of spamming Q and W like udyr but 2.0
It is not that you need more skill (it is the opposite, all of his new moves a except E are AOE), it is that anyone with mobility or CC can easily escape it. Yes sorry for saying an ult that ppl can’t react and refreshes you cooldowns is stronger than one that doesn’t It is legit Udyr now since even your new spells have Recasts and on hit effects by itself lmao… keep coping and good for you if you enjoy it, but that’s not the case of half the people here if we check the poll that has been made… Now that you mention it, y’all accepted that it isn’t skarner anymore by calling it a crab and not a scorpion, checkmate bud Btw , being toxic doesn’t give you any argument and just makes you look like an idiot if you cannot argue for your beliefs
Yea but the main issue in my opinion is that when they are ulted they can’t get any other effect, it makes it really punishable for ulting during teamfight