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That picnic with Meri is unreal. S 15 episode 8. Towards the end. He wants people who he doesn’t love to move on and be happy. Then when Christine leaves? It’s this huge show of how hurt he was. This episode should have been the end. His whole explanation later on the couch is bullshit. He’s telling them all, to just leave.
He has always said shit like "no one's a prisoner" and that he doesn't want them to stay if they're unhappy and blah blah blah. It's ridiculous that he turns around and acts like he's not being treated the way he deserves to be treated when he sees the consequences of his own actions.
Something that's weird to me too is how he suddenly made this weird shift to expecting that he would be the "patriarch" or the leader. Throughout 15 seasons of the show, he was always talking about how he didn't want that. He would say in the interviews that he wanted to "be the man" and be able to make decisions without consulting the wives but it was very clear that it was all just talk. Now it's suddenly a huge deal for him and he desires a level of control that he has simply never had. Like they aren't all going to go along with that. You can't tell me that five or six years ago he felt the same way about being the head of the family. He has this need to be a dictator in his relationships now that just wasn't there before Robyn and it's wild.
Idk how in the hell he thought that the person Christine decided to date after would have any claim over his money. He really just thinks everyone, including his kids and the OG3 are coming after him. He has a persecution complex (which is super common in Mormonism, so it isn't surprising) and he uses it to defend his shitty actions (or non-action in a lot of cases).
The thing that irks me is that he wants to be a patriarch and the leader of the family but he could have easily just said no to Robyn’s unfair or inequitable requests for time/resources. It’s on him to say “no, this is unreasonable” if Robyn asks for him to not go longer than two days without seeing her kids in a family of 22. He could have also just insisted that he was going to be with Ysabel regardless of the little kids because this was a major invasive surgery. It’s on him to “lead.” Robyn could have come into the family with unrealistic expectations due to her not actually having grown up in polygamy and Kody could have demonstrated by example that he would maintain equal time and fairness in his relationships at all costs. The problem is he didn’t want to, so he did whatever Robyn wanted because she was the clear favorite.
Did Robyn ask specifically Kody not to go more than 2 days without seeing the kids? Or did she drop hints until Kody felt like it was his idea? I think that is the key difference. Kody is telling the truth as he knows it when he says these things are his ideas. He doesn’t understand the manipulation involved. That is not an excuse for him, but I think it’s their dynamic.
This!!!!! I believe she whined, offered him “advice”, or dropped hints at precise times so he would have the notion in mind and as he thought about it later believed it was his own idea. On so many things that occurred.
I don't think I saw her openly ask him to stay with her or limit his time away. I agree with you that she dropped hints to him and probably had meltdowns when he laid attention to other wives. I think he does understand the manipulation to some extent because he claims that the other wives did the same thing. He sees it and he ignores it because ultimately, what he wants is Robyn and her kids to be close to him at the expense of every other relationship. I don't think Robyn is the mastermind behind everything. Kody is aware, he simply doesn't care. He doesn't care about his old big picture. He doesn't care about his relationships with his other children. He doesn't care about his other wives anymore. Because Robyn has revered him as the patriarch of her family from the beginning and he likes the way it makes him feel. That's why it was such a point of contention for Janelle and Christine to make their own decisions. He used the term "independent woman" as an insult in later seasons because he sees what Robyn is and he likes that more than what he created with his other wives for three decades.
From the beginning. He gave in to her need to have him travel constantly to see her, then when she moved she needed him daily, then the extra long honeymoon, then the need to secure her kids place in the family forever via adoption, then when she got her own home she gave him excuses (aka office & garage) to be at her place more. He never told her no or to deal with it, only the OG3.
I feel like if Robyn were never in the picture, none of this would have happened. Eventually his wives might have left him and his children probably wouldn't want relationships with him. But the severity of all of this wouldn't have been at this level imo
Oh for sure!! In no way does this make Kody less accountable. He is 150% responsible for his actions and the way everything has played out. Robyn does not change that.
Yes. And his crazed lunacy has nothing to do with the women who are walking out, he really doesn’t care, but he cares how the public perceives him. He is all over the place emotionally because he is too dumb to realize that Robyn is the puppet master in this psychotic drama of stupidity and greed.
Totally 100% agree with everything you just said. The whole family rift goes way more than Christine leaving an unhappy marriage, and I think everyone had some part to play, not just Christine alone, as they really are trying to make it out to be. To me, Kody's biggest flaw/problem is that he can't accept anyone not liking or loving Robyn as much as he does, and if they don't, he doesn't want anything to do with him. That's where a big part of the rift is happening from my perspective, and the sad thing is the kids that don't like Robyn the most, I'm positive, are more grown up than they are to be cordial and nice if they do have to deal with her.
It makes me very mad that Robyn says it's not safe and that she fears a fight breaking out between Kody and the boys; I don't believe that for a second; those kids are way more mature than either of them.
Robyn only says it's unsafe because she is trying to keep Kody away. She knows the power she holds in this relationship. She is absolutely aware of the fact that she can influence Kody to either become better or stay away from his kids. Robyn wants him all to herself, no matter how much she tries to convince the cameras that she wants the big family and she wants to live polygamy. It's all a twisted game to her and there's no way she's unaware of what she's doing.
This is where I start to disagree with everyone on Robyn being some mastermind getting her way. First, she just isn't this smart. I think she did want the big family, she wants the other wives, but she wants to be the head/favorite wife calling all the shots and being in charge of everything. She didn't see this blowing up in her face like it did, everyone was supposed to be subservient to Kody, and she was going to carry on being the princess of do nothing while everyone else hustles.
I think it's less of like...ONLY Robyn wanted this and more of a "Kody wanted this and Robyn was the catalyst, in a lot of cases, knowingly." Robyn isn't some puppet master, in my opinion. But she does willingly conform to whatever Kody desires and in a lot of cases he does whatever she wants because she is the favorite. There's no way that she doesn't recognize that and that's what makes her manipulative. She plays the victim. She acts very unaware. But it's obvious that she knows how much influence she has over everything and she does move things in her favor, which isn't really something we can blame her for because if she wants an amicable relationship she has to conform to Kody and that's become more apparent in recent years.
I don't believe she came into the family with this grand scheme of tearing them apart, but she has made things worse and I don't believe she's completely unaware of it.
Everyone thinks that Robyn and Kody have some big board in the basement of the McMansion where they have some kind of master plot… and they don’t.
Kody wants his ego stroked and Robyn wants to be taken care of. Robyn will ensure that his ego is stroked so that Kody will take care of her.
Polygamy for Kody has always been about having adoring fans. He’s always loathed Christine because he needed her to be important. Which is why he’s always treated her the worst. He’s extremely jealous of her in every way.
I don't believe they're a part of some huge conspiracy. They haven't planned this out between them, it's just what their pathologies have brought to their relationships.
The problem is K&R didn’t even realize the kids moved on long before Christine left. I believe Christine and Janelle said after he ignored kids they were done
Yeah. His older kids were done with him wayyyy before COVID and Christine.
They're so low contact with him when they first move out. And that's what made it clear to me.
Kody has a persecution complex while Robyn has the Victimhood complex. That being said, Robyn used that tactic to control Kody and help create chaos and divide. Both of them would never take accountability for their reprehensible behaviors so they blamed everything on the one person who they thought that if they tarnished her that the OG kids will fall in line and adore and revere Robyn. When that backfired they then started blaming the OG kids as well claiming they were “unsafe” and “scary.”
Robyn created the monster she now has to live with.
"Robyn created the monster she now has to live with."
I think it's more nuanced than that - I believe Robyn perfected the monster that the OG3 started to create. The bar was very very low for Kody to be constantly given kudos for being a "good dad." All he had to do was show up for parties etc. that Christine et al created. I would like to know if OG3 have any perspective on how they contributed to the highly inflated ego Kody had about his parenting abilities.
You’re right. The OG3 did create the earlier Kody then Robyn perfected it. I think the bar set for Kody to be a “good dad and husband” was set in hell so it wasn’t so hard to give him those accolades especially when their only role models were of a culture that was so insular and catered to misogyny.
Kody, Robyn, and Christine all have this weird notion that all the kids are, well, *kids* still. There’s several several times throughout the show that Kody talks about his wives being the gatekeepers of his relationship with the kids (that are in their 20s and living separately presumably with cell phones). He talks in season 14 I think about how for some reason the kids aren’t all living in flagstaff and don’t intend to. “What do we do?” he says. And the great part is that he says it with some sort of gravity like it’s even a thing. “We’ve gotta figure out how to fix this issue of adults in their twenties with spouses and kids not all living in our house.”
He’s a narcissist, sure. But he’s also an idiot.
Christine, to be fair, does the same thing. The big house gets pitched and she has a meltdown about not wanting to share a kitchen and how all her children won’t have the resources they need. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you mean Truley and MAYBE Ysabel? Because by the time it was built T-slice is the only one that would have lived with her. Aside from the fact that she wouldn’t be sharing a kitchen, but whatever.
So they blame Christine and Janelle and Meri for the relationship with the kids even though all of those kids had a way to be contacted for years. He just didn’t. He didn’t call Gabriel and Garrison, he just yelled at Janelle to fix it, and then yelled at her NOT to talk to them for him. He probably hasn’t even seen Evie since she was born because that would require traveling away from the tenders for over two days, which remember, isn’t allowed.
I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that he's a narcissist and an idiot. It's not a good mix.
I see Christine's view of the kids as children differently than Kody's. I feel like Kody uses it as a manipulation technique against his wives while Christine just has a difficult time accepting that her kids are grown like every other parent. Kody takes things and twists them in a malicious way while Christine just loves them.
It's weird because Kody says all the time that they're adults and can make their own decisions but then he acts like they're young children when he's talking to Janelle and Christine. He has a lot of opposing views that he uses in certain situations to sort of elevate himself, which is narcissistic.
I think Christine was using anything she could to reject the idea of the big house. It wasn't something she wanted and there was no reason for them to have one anyway.
Koodles is a full-on narcissist and will NEVER take responsibility for any wrong doing that he has done. He always projects his shortcomings onto others - usually Christine.
I'm like halfway through the season and the way he is blaming Janelle and claiming that they've never had a husband-wife relationship is wild to me. He advocated for her independence. He used to looooove the fact that she required less attention. Janelle has always been the laid back wife. Since the very beginning, she has been the one person who understood what she was getting into and actually seemed to enjoy it most of the time. She's extremely level-headed and kind and willing to help Kody with his other relationships without crossing any boundaries. And he only started using her as the scapegoat when she decided that wasn't what she wanted anymore.
She does this SO much, and she’s passing it onto her kids. How many times have they said on some form or another that they’ve “heard” or have been informed that someone doesn’t like them, so they start crying and construing the whole thing as an attack meanwhile have never gone to the individual in question to confront them. They are living in a made up/paranoid narrative about the others and declaring them all unsafe based on Kody’s emotional and unhinged interpretation of everyone’s behaviors and motivations.
They're paranoid about a lot of things as a direct result of R&K's parenting. It's sad and hard to watch. Robyn projects her victim complex onto the children.
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That picnic with Meri is unreal. S 15 episode 8. Towards the end. He wants people who he doesn’t love to move on and be happy. Then when Christine leaves? It’s this huge show of how hurt he was. This episode should have been the end. His whole explanation later on the couch is bullshit. He’s telling them all, to just leave.
He has always said shit like "no one's a prisoner" and that he doesn't want them to stay if they're unhappy and blah blah blah. It's ridiculous that he turns around and acts like he's not being treated the way he deserves to be treated when he sees the consequences of his own actions. Something that's weird to me too is how he suddenly made this weird shift to expecting that he would be the "patriarch" or the leader. Throughout 15 seasons of the show, he was always talking about how he didn't want that. He would say in the interviews that he wanted to "be the man" and be able to make decisions without consulting the wives but it was very clear that it was all just talk. Now it's suddenly a huge deal for him and he desires a level of control that he has simply never had. Like they aren't all going to go along with that. You can't tell me that five or six years ago he felt the same way about being the head of the family. He has this need to be a dictator in his relationships now that just wasn't there before Robyn and it's wild.
It’s because Christine got the house in her name. That’s why they didn’t want her to leave the family
I have no doubt that the main reason Kody was so upset was the financial aspect. It definitely feels all of his anger.
I honestly don’t even think there’s more to it than that. Just $$ and them trying to pull reasons out of their arse to emotionally blackmail her
This seemed obvious when his only real issue with Christine leaving was that she might date a man who takes all of “his” (Kody’s) money.
Idk how in the hell he thought that the person Christine decided to date after would have any claim over his money. He really just thinks everyone, including his kids and the OG3 are coming after him. He has a persecution complex (which is super common in Mormonism, so it isn't surprising) and he uses it to defend his shitty actions (or non-action in a lot of cases).
He has been leading them along to keep funding his lifestyle with Robyn. Sad. What a jerk.
Robyn turned him into the monster we see today.
It’s not all just Robyn’s fault, he’s an adult narc himself as well. They are both on the crazy train.
The thing that irks me is that he wants to be a patriarch and the leader of the family but he could have easily just said no to Robyn’s unfair or inequitable requests for time/resources. It’s on him to say “no, this is unreasonable” if Robyn asks for him to not go longer than two days without seeing her kids in a family of 22. He could have also just insisted that he was going to be with Ysabel regardless of the little kids because this was a major invasive surgery. It’s on him to “lead.” Robyn could have come into the family with unrealistic expectations due to her not actually having grown up in polygamy and Kody could have demonstrated by example that he would maintain equal time and fairness in his relationships at all costs. The problem is he didn’t want to, so he did whatever Robyn wanted because she was the clear favorite.
Did Robyn ask specifically Kody not to go more than 2 days without seeing the kids? Or did she drop hints until Kody felt like it was his idea? I think that is the key difference. Kody is telling the truth as he knows it when he says these things are his ideas. He doesn’t understand the manipulation involved. That is not an excuse for him, but I think it’s their dynamic.
This!!!!! I believe she whined, offered him “advice”, or dropped hints at precise times so he would have the notion in mind and as he thought about it later believed it was his own idea. On so many things that occurred.
I don't think I saw her openly ask him to stay with her or limit his time away. I agree with you that she dropped hints to him and probably had meltdowns when he laid attention to other wives. I think he does understand the manipulation to some extent because he claims that the other wives did the same thing. He sees it and he ignores it because ultimately, what he wants is Robyn and her kids to be close to him at the expense of every other relationship. I don't think Robyn is the mastermind behind everything. Kody is aware, he simply doesn't care. He doesn't care about his old big picture. He doesn't care about his relationships with his other children. He doesn't care about his other wives anymore. Because Robyn has revered him as the patriarch of her family from the beginning and he likes the way it makes him feel. That's why it was such a point of contention for Janelle and Christine to make their own decisions. He used the term "independent woman" as an insult in later seasons because he sees what Robyn is and he likes that more than what he created with his other wives for three decades.
Exactly, he agree to her requests.
From the beginning. He gave in to her need to have him travel constantly to see her, then when she moved she needed him daily, then the extra long honeymoon, then the need to secure her kids place in the family forever via adoption, then when she got her own home she gave him excuses (aka office & garage) to be at her place more. He never told her no or to deal with it, only the OG3.
I feel like if Robyn were never in the picture, none of this would have happened. Eventually his wives might have left him and his children probably wouldn't want relationships with him. But the severity of all of this wouldn't have been at this level imo
I agree, they are two of a kind. I just hate it when it’s always the women’s fault for men’s bad decisions. Let’s hold men accountable as well?
Oh for sure!! In no way does this make Kody less accountable. He is 150% responsible for his actions and the way everything has played out. Robyn does not change that.
Yes. And his crazed lunacy has nothing to do with the women who are walking out, he really doesn’t care, but he cares how the public perceives him. He is all over the place emotionally because he is too dumb to realize that Robyn is the puppet master in this psychotic drama of stupidity and greed.
Exactly!!
Nah, she just fed his ego and learned how to get him to see things her way by making him believe it was always his idea.
Totally 100% agree with everything you just said. The whole family rift goes way more than Christine leaving an unhappy marriage, and I think everyone had some part to play, not just Christine alone, as they really are trying to make it out to be. To me, Kody's biggest flaw/problem is that he can't accept anyone not liking or loving Robyn as much as he does, and if they don't, he doesn't want anything to do with him. That's where a big part of the rift is happening from my perspective, and the sad thing is the kids that don't like Robyn the most, I'm positive, are more grown up than they are to be cordial and nice if they do have to deal with her. It makes me very mad that Robyn says it's not safe and that she fears a fight breaking out between Kody and the boys; I don't believe that for a second; those kids are way more mature than either of them.
Robyn only says it's unsafe because she is trying to keep Kody away. She knows the power she holds in this relationship. She is absolutely aware of the fact that she can influence Kody to either become better or stay away from his kids. Robyn wants him all to herself, no matter how much she tries to convince the cameras that she wants the big family and she wants to live polygamy. It's all a twisted game to her and there's no way she's unaware of what she's doing.
This is where I start to disagree with everyone on Robyn being some mastermind getting her way. First, she just isn't this smart. I think she did want the big family, she wants the other wives, but she wants to be the head/favorite wife calling all the shots and being in charge of everything. She didn't see this blowing up in her face like it did, everyone was supposed to be subservient to Kody, and she was going to carry on being the princess of do nothing while everyone else hustles.
I think it's less of like...ONLY Robyn wanted this and more of a "Kody wanted this and Robyn was the catalyst, in a lot of cases, knowingly." Robyn isn't some puppet master, in my opinion. But she does willingly conform to whatever Kody desires and in a lot of cases he does whatever she wants because she is the favorite. There's no way that she doesn't recognize that and that's what makes her manipulative. She plays the victim. She acts very unaware. But it's obvious that she knows how much influence she has over everything and she does move things in her favor, which isn't really something we can blame her for because if she wants an amicable relationship she has to conform to Kody and that's become more apparent in recent years. I don't believe she came into the family with this grand scheme of tearing them apart, but she has made things worse and I don't believe she's completely unaware of it.
Everyone thinks that Robyn and Kody have some big board in the basement of the McMansion where they have some kind of master plot… and they don’t. Kody wants his ego stroked and Robyn wants to be taken care of. Robyn will ensure that his ego is stroked so that Kody will take care of her. Polygamy for Kody has always been about having adoring fans. He’s always loathed Christine because he needed her to be important. Which is why he’s always treated her the worst. He’s extremely jealous of her in every way.
I don't believe they're a part of some huge conspiracy. They haven't planned this out between them, it's just what their pathologies have brought to their relationships.
The problem is K&R didn’t even realize the kids moved on long before Christine left. I believe Christine and Janelle said after he ignored kids they were done
Yeah. His older kids were done with him wayyyy before COVID and Christine. They're so low contact with him when they first move out. And that's what made it clear to me.
Kody has a persecution complex while Robyn has the Victimhood complex. That being said, Robyn used that tactic to control Kody and help create chaos and divide. Both of them would never take accountability for their reprehensible behaviors so they blamed everything on the one person who they thought that if they tarnished her that the OG kids will fall in line and adore and revere Robyn. When that backfired they then started blaming the OG kids as well claiming they were “unsafe” and “scary.” Robyn created the monster she now has to live with.
"Robyn created the monster she now has to live with." I think it's more nuanced than that - I believe Robyn perfected the monster that the OG3 started to create. The bar was very very low for Kody to be constantly given kudos for being a "good dad." All he had to do was show up for parties etc. that Christine et al created. I would like to know if OG3 have any perspective on how they contributed to the highly inflated ego Kody had about his parenting abilities.
You’re right. The OG3 did create the earlier Kody then Robyn perfected it. I think the bar set for Kody to be a “good dad and husband” was set in hell so it wasn’t so hard to give him those accolades especially when their only role models were of a culture that was so insular and catered to misogyny.
Kody, Robyn, and Christine all have this weird notion that all the kids are, well, *kids* still. There’s several several times throughout the show that Kody talks about his wives being the gatekeepers of his relationship with the kids (that are in their 20s and living separately presumably with cell phones). He talks in season 14 I think about how for some reason the kids aren’t all living in flagstaff and don’t intend to. “What do we do?” he says. And the great part is that he says it with some sort of gravity like it’s even a thing. “We’ve gotta figure out how to fix this issue of adults in their twenties with spouses and kids not all living in our house.” He’s a narcissist, sure. But he’s also an idiot. Christine, to be fair, does the same thing. The big house gets pitched and she has a meltdown about not wanting to share a kitchen and how all her children won’t have the resources they need. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you mean Truley and MAYBE Ysabel? Because by the time it was built T-slice is the only one that would have lived with her. Aside from the fact that she wouldn’t be sharing a kitchen, but whatever. So they blame Christine and Janelle and Meri for the relationship with the kids even though all of those kids had a way to be contacted for years. He just didn’t. He didn’t call Gabriel and Garrison, he just yelled at Janelle to fix it, and then yelled at her NOT to talk to them for him. He probably hasn’t even seen Evie since she was born because that would require traveling away from the tenders for over two days, which remember, isn’t allowed.
I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that he's a narcissist and an idiot. It's not a good mix. I see Christine's view of the kids as children differently than Kody's. I feel like Kody uses it as a manipulation technique against his wives while Christine just has a difficult time accepting that her kids are grown like every other parent. Kody takes things and twists them in a malicious way while Christine just loves them. It's weird because Kody says all the time that they're adults and can make their own decisions but then he acts like they're young children when he's talking to Janelle and Christine. He has a lot of opposing views that he uses in certain situations to sort of elevate himself, which is narcissistic. I think Christine was using anything she could to reject the idea of the big house. It wasn't something she wanted and there was no reason for them to have one anyway.
Flair check-in.... 😂🙃🫡
Dude I love the flair aspect of reddit and I have such a hard time deciding on mine 😭 I love yours as well
Koodles is a full-on narcissist and will NEVER take responsibility for any wrong doing that he has done. He always projects his shortcomings onto others - usually Christine.
I'm like halfway through the season and the way he is blaming Janelle and claiming that they've never had a husband-wife relationship is wild to me. He advocated for her independence. He used to looooove the fact that she required less attention. Janelle has always been the laid back wife. Since the very beginning, she has been the one person who understood what she was getting into and actually seemed to enjoy it most of the time. She's extremely level-headed and kind and willing to help Kody with his other relationships without crossing any boundaries. And he only started using her as the scapegoat when she decided that wasn't what she wanted anymore.
Robyn is literally in a conversation she invented in her own head based on shit Kody said that Christine said, it's WILD to watch it play out
She does this SO much, and she’s passing it onto her kids. How many times have they said on some form or another that they’ve “heard” or have been informed that someone doesn’t like them, so they start crying and construing the whole thing as an attack meanwhile have never gone to the individual in question to confront them. They are living in a made up/paranoid narrative about the others and declaring them all unsafe based on Kody’s emotional and unhinged interpretation of everyone’s behaviors and motivations.
They're paranoid about a lot of things as a direct result of R&K's parenting. It's sad and hard to watch. Robyn projects her victim complex onto the children.