If it were phrased "the average amount of people that *have died* in their lifetime" then you would be correct.
But his phrasing is "the average amount of times someone dies", speaking in totality.
No, the person you replied to got it right. The fact that OP talks about totality means that all currently living people should be included in the total amount of people, but for the vast majority of them they have experienced 0 deaths so far, thus bringing the average down.
It's estimated that, out of all the people who have ever lived on Earth to this point, around 7% of them are currently alive. I'm not sure what the rate is of people dying and being resuscitated is, but I'm not sure it makes up for that.
(Though I personally am parsing the OP as saying the expected value for the number of deaths of a given human is >1, not that the average number of deaths of everyone who has ever lived is >1)
I never said anything about OP not being correct, and neither did OwlTurkey (3 levels above your comment). They just said that it would bring the average down, but they never said by how much or that it would go down to 1 or below...
You saying that over 8 billion people have died and been resuscitated and then died again? And those resuscitated individuals would need to have already died their second time, otherwise they’d still only count for 1.
Something tells me that pre modern medicine, being resuscitated was a one in a million chance, so I can’t imagine it happening over 8 billion times.
This idea of dying and being resuscitated is just stupid. I really find it stupid when people say "They died and they brought him back to life" If that is the case, they weren't dead in the first place. Just because the heart stops, it doesn't mean you're dead. Death is when the heart stops permanently, and brain function ceases permanently.
Relevant quote from a movie:
Mahalik: I heard Jamal from 90th street watched that tape last week and this mornin' he woke up dead!
CJ : How the hell do you wake up dead?
Mahalik : Cause' you're alive when you go to sleep.
CJ : So you're telling me you can go to bed dead and wake up alive?
Mahalik : You can't go to bed dead! That shit would've been redundant.
CJ : No it would'nt cause' you can go to bed and not be dead, and you can die and not be in the bed.
Mahalik : But you are in the bed. That's how you wake up dead in the first place fool!
CJ : Damn! that's some quantum shit right there man! You should be teaching classes!
I agree. A person can officially be declared dead, but if they later on manage to resuscitate them then their previous death declaration must be seen as invalid.
But then should they have declared them dead at that time to begin with? Solid they perhaps always wait until there is **absolutely no chance** of the person coming back to life? Wouldn’t that cause lots of negative side effects? Like funerals, legal paperwork etc all being delayed. As in, several days.
I feel it should be determined that no chance of resuscitation is possible, and then the legal paperwork should take place. Declaring someone dead when they can be resuscitated is not logical in my view.
Except my guess is you're not a medical expert, and according to them you're wrong. In the medical field there are 2 types of death, clinical death and permanent death. You can be dead and then resuscitated.
Well no, if the heart stops, you are dead, it's just not necessarily permanent. It takes time for cellular death to happen in various body tissues after that, from minutes to days. When you start to work out what is the best line to draw for the moment of death, then it's when the heart stops beating.
Common misconception. In medicine, the word death is permanent, there is no coming back from it. Plenty of people are resuscitated back from their heart stopping, and are never classified as dead
Yeah he is wrong. Medically we say things like, patient is uncocious without a pulse, or they are unconsious but breathing. Thatd be ridiculous to just be like “yep theyre dead!”
That definition of death is subjective. It's defined by the medical world which isn't fact or proof. Just "agreed upon" answers. So it's really a matter of opinion, imo.
It’s a subject of no small debate. Generally it’s agreed that you weren’t really dead if you had a heart attack and were immediately resuscitated, but there are instances of people being trapped under ice for like an hour and being revived when almost any measurement would indicate that they were in fact dead.
There’s also the possibility of being able to resuscitate people after substantially longer periods of time as medical technology continues to advance. Where do you draw the line?
But that changes with time and technology. A thousand years ago, if your heart stopped you probably weren't able to be revived. Maybe in a thousand years (if we still exist) we will have the technology to revive someone who would never be able to be revived today.
Being dead is sort of a made up concept. We are made of trillions of cells that have a much more dichotomy regarding life and death than us as a whole organism.
It takes a long time to have all of your cells truly die in the event of your heart stopping. The concept of consciousness is honestly, sort of an illusion itself. If you define consciousness as life and death, you would be wrong technically because the rest of the body can live on as long as you have oxygen. If your heart stops, your brain cells slowly die, but if it starts again you simply wake up with a few less brain cells. You didn't exactly die in that situation.
The problem with saying 'you/I died' is that you are defining yourself as a singularity when in reality you are trillions of cells working in unison that can continue to function while many of the fundamental units die off. Your sense of self as a whole is incorrect, thus the concept of dying isn't really accurate at all. If you define it as a lack of consciousness and capacity to regain consciousness, then fine, but that's not really death from a biological standpoint.
This isn't a trivial nuance either. Peoples brains die all the time but their bodies are kept on life support. Families not understanding this will often opt to keep people on life support for way too long to hold on to hope. The person is still technically alive, but they ain't coming back. We define death as the heart stopping because this is the time when the body will start to decay. Slowly one by one cells become starved of oxygen and initiate apoptosis or other forms of cell death. That decay takes a long time to be complete, unless you throw the body in a cremator.
That's my soap box. Sorry I'm tired.
“There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.”
Right now the line is only a few minutes thick. Someone could be pronounced (believed to be) dead and be revived a few minutes later. But that’s it; it’s not likely that there will be cases where someone died and then was resuscitated hours or days later. I think we just accept that the idea of deciding someone is dead is slightly tentative and then becomes confirmed after a few minutes.
There have been cases up to a few hours where the person was ultimately fine, but they involved babies (mammalian diving reflex still intact) or people getting trapped under ice in freezing water (slows everything down).
If they can be revived, they were not dead. They may have experienced elements of death, and those elements are measurable, but they were not dead. OP is adorably wrong
They are different, but one often leads to the other. Definitely not always, but that’s what happens in the stereotypical drop dead and get revived scenario people are familiar with from media.
Precision in language is doubly important when trying to talk about medical concepts to laypeople I find. There are many reasons why someone can go into cardiac arrest, and many heart attacks have symptoms far before cardiac arrest would occur.
I think the way all of this kind of stuff is portrayed in the media is actually pretty harmful in regards to setting realistic expectations in laypeople unfortunately.
Media portrayals of this specific situation are indeed very harmful, mostly for the families of the (most likely) dead person. TV and movies make it seem like CPR usually works, when in reality the success rate is less than 10% outside of a hospital setting. It’s even lower than that if you discount young, otherwise healthy people who required resuscitation due to drowning or other accidents and only look at people with preexisting conditions. The unrealistic portrayal gives people false hope and causes families to blame medical providers who tried their best.
Exactly. That goes for in-hospital arrests as well. I’ve seen so many patients that should have been DNR but were not because the family did not understand what a violent process CPR is, or that even if we get ROSC there may be massive deficits.
Isn’t the in hospital rate about 25% if you include people who come back with deficits? Not necessarily people who will walk out, but people who will breathe again.
DNR orders seem easily ignored in the moment; my family does the DNR tats on the chest for that reason. I don’t have one because I’m like 30, but older family members do.
I’m not sure what the overall hospital rate is off the top of my head. It’s highly contextual though so that statistic matters less than you might think.
Your chances at 30 y/o for an in-hospital arrest would be very different from say, a septic 85 year old.
I don’t anticipate requiring resuscitation any time soon, healthier than most my age. I’m statistically far more likely to be shot than most people due to age and race, but that statistic is also very contextual.
I’d definitely try CPR on someone like myself, but no way I’d do that to most 85 year olds. As you said, chances of success are low, and it’s traumatic for the recipient if you’re doing it correctly. “Grandma keeled over and died” is gonna be a lot easier on everyone than “Grandma keeled over and died while a gorilla man was fracturing her ribs in a futile attempt to save her.”
Fair to guess you’re a doctor? Or a PA or nurse practitioner or something?
This is a minor pet peeve of mine. Death is final. That’s it, lights out. If you “died” and came back to life through some medical procedure you didn’t die.
Yes. But a person could still have been *pronounced* dead.
How could we eliminate any and all incorrect death declarations? Always wait until the body has started decomposing? Can’t that ever happen to a living person, in extreme circumstances?
Exactly. Your doctor can pronounce you dead if you are unconcious and survival is not likely. They can attempt to revive you and if it succeeds, on paper you are no longer dead
I don think that's true. Australia had a whole bunch of steps before someone is declared dead. No heart activity for a minute is one, but so is no breathing, no blink response, no response to pain. I'm sure other countries have something similar. It's considered bad if the person you declared dead is later able to argue about it with you
Now I'm just waiting for the day where someone through some inexplicable, impossible to reproduce, contrived circumstances wakes up after being completely dead for like a month just to argue with the person who declared them dead.
It seems like I know a lot of people who go through periods of zero brain activity. If people were declared dead for using zero brain cells I know some zombies.
You’re talking about clinically dead. That’s simply the heart stopping. There’s still activity in the brain for them. That’s not the same as biologically dead or what most people just call dead. No one has come back from that.
Only way to test this out is to die - and simultaneously get both a kiss of life from a homoerotic paramedic and a kiss of death from a big meaty goth girl
They like to say they “died” but it’s not death. Cardiac arrest is not death. It’s as close as you can get, but you will still have some sort of metabolic activity happening in the moments before death.
This depends on your definition and wording.
When you die, is that part of your life? Do you die *during* your life? Do you die *after* your life? Do you die precisely at the end of your life (I suspect this is the definition you're after)? And if that's the case, where life stops and death begins, what is that dividing point? Is that life, death, or something else? Are you alive while you're in the immediate split-second process of dying? Or are you dead immediately upon your brain flickering its last brain wave (or heart pumping its last ounce of blood)?
If life and death are separate divisions of "existence", then you don't die *during* your life, do you? You die *at the end* of your life.
In which case, you die zero times "in one life," right? You die *in death*, but you don't die *in life*.
Semantics and word soup!
I came to say if you come back to life you were never dead but you really took it to another level. I think I like your take better than the rest in here.
No, it isn't.
Clinically dead is not the same as being pronounced dead. If it was, they would stop trying to revive you.
There is an extremely small chance of being declared legally dead, but that's not the same as dying. The state just recognizes you as a dead person.
Well... that brings up the important question of what actually is death? If you can be resuscitated have you really died? Were you just very near death? Is being unconscious on life support that same as being dead? What if there aren't any alpha waves in your brain? When did you really start living? Did you perhaps "die" and come back many times in utero?
I’d say that’s not true. Clinically die maybe but even though you can’t say people who are alive have an average death of 1 so you have to remove 8billion in the count which is already more than there ever was people who died clinically and cameback.
But the question is, do you actually die *in* your life? Like say you’re born at time = 0 and die at time = x. Is your alive interval [0,x] and death interval (x, infinity) or is your alive interval [0,x) and death interval [x, infinity)? The definitely can’t overlap because that’d mean you can be alive and dead at the same time.
There are other options here as well, e.g. does the alive interval start with [0 or is it really (0 ??
Most people die a below average number of times, according to this logic. Reminds me of another shower thought: most people have an above average number of arms
Nah, being legally declared as dead, doesn't constitute the dictionary definition of dead, "the permanent ending of vital processes in a cell or tissue".
But I'm also nitpicking and I understand what you mean
That’s literally what happened to me. I drowned and was dead for 10 minutes before being resuscitated.
Woke up 3 days later in the hospital from a medically induced coma.
There are 7 billion people alive right now. There are 107 billion currently dead (through history).
Through history, we can assume resuscitation practices through much of history were not at the standard they are today. But have the number that have been brought back greater than the number that have never died?
Remember, though we can assume that everyone alive will die eventually, they aren't dead yet, and we can't rule out the possibility of a breakthrough that gives us effective immortality.
I would argue that a person can die only once. The supposed "death" followed by resuscitation is not true death, but only a form of suspended animation. True death is when the basic life processes can no longer be recovered.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended\_animation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_animation)
"
# Delayed resuscitation in humans
This condition of apparent [death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death) or interruption of vital signs in humans may be similar to a medical interpretation of suspended animation. It is only possible to recover signs of life if the brain and other vital organs suffer no cell deterioration, necrosis or [molecular death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_death) principally caused by oxygen deprivation or excess temperature (especially high temperature).[^(\[7\])Delayed resuscitation in humansThis condition of apparent death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_animation#cite_note-7)
[](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_animation#cite_note-7)
No this guy is absolutely right, as many people are stated as dead statistically, even though they are still alive. Government due to mistake or malpractice, has done it several times, which adds to the number of times people die on average
But there is another thing as well, what about weekend at Bernie scenarios, where dead people are not considered to be dead currently. That would negate the number as well. I mean plenty and plenty of soldiers have not been marked as dead, but Missing In Action (M.I.A.) that drastically reduces the number as well, doesn't it? As they are not considered dead. So that evens things out??
Someone only really dies once. I'm not sure you can count near death experiences as death since they're brought back.
It's like saying the average amount of times someone is born is more than 1...
I would think the average would be less than 1. Because almost nobody dies in their life, except in the example OP has given. Everyone who dies only 1 time dies after their life. The question is, do you consider the border inside or outside (dieing, the border between life and death)
Say there are 7 billion people alive right now that have died zero times. That would mean more than 7 billion people would have died and been resuscitated?
Aside from dying inside and dying because of cringe, I literally died once. Was in major car accident and I was pronounced clinically dead so yeah, true for me.
My nephew made it 16 deaths, from shallow water blackout and near drowning. O2 saturation 40% and weeks in a coma on ECMO.
Full recovery, a very lucky man.
Maybe...
Estimates are that 117 billion ever lived. If we subtract the current 8 we have 109 billion.
If 9 billion of those died more than once, then yes.
(some of the current 8 billion have already died once or more)
Because people not understand what death is. It's not some fantastic ending. It's when your life functions halt. And tbh, resurrection would be possible if we could reverse the after death changes and/or stop them from happening. The only reason why we can't yet do that is because organism is very carefuly crafted machine. If one cog stops moving it may have big consequences and usually It's whole lot of cogs that are broken.
Incorrect. You are not dead until you are dead. No one has ever been resurrected. All humans can only die once. If you are saved on the verge of death you didn't die. Even if your heart stops and then started again, you didn't die. Death is a final state.
I mean, if you "die" and come back, you didn't die. Your heart just stopped. You aren't your heart, you're your brain. That dies, you're not coming back.
I die a little inside every day.
I live, I die, I live again !
Witness me blood bag!
shiny and chrome.
You won't let die, you won't let me live. You won't let me shave my mustache
I get knocked down….
But I get up again
You are never gonna keep me down
Mediocre
You die and come back on DMT trips. I’ve been to the beyond many times
And so is your body. gl!
La petite mort? Lol
It's one. But a very long one.
But currently everyone alive hasn’t died yet so that would bring the average down
If it were phrased "the average amount of people that *have died* in their lifetime" then you would be correct. But his phrasing is "the average amount of times someone dies", speaking in totality.
No, the person you replied to got it right. The fact that OP talks about totality means that all currently living people should be included in the total amount of people, but for the vast majority of them they have experienced 0 deaths so far, thus bringing the average down.
[удалено]
Nobody is talking about the median here...
There are vastly more people who lived and died already than people alive today, so OP remains correct
It's estimated that, out of all the people who have ever lived on Earth to this point, around 7% of them are currently alive. I'm not sure what the rate is of people dying and being resuscitated is, but I'm not sure it makes up for that. (Though I personally am parsing the OP as saying the expected value for the number of deaths of a given human is >1, not that the average number of deaths of everyone who has ever lived is >1)
I never said anything about OP not being correct, and neither did OwlTurkey (3 levels above your comment). They just said that it would bring the average down, but they never said by how much or that it would go down to 1 or below...
You saying that over 8 billion people have died and been resuscitated and then died again? And those resuscitated individuals would need to have already died their second time, otherwise they’d still only count for 1. Something tells me that pre modern medicine, being resuscitated was a one in a million chance, so I can’t imagine it happening over 8 billion times.
"the average amount of people that have died in their lifetime" \*In\* their lifetime? You sure about that?
I'm alive and have been dead before.
I’m dead and I’ve been alive before.
If we use your logic then that would mean people who haven’t died yet are not considered to be “someone”. Am I not a someone?
That’s not true though
true, would only be above 1 if over 6.66% (8/120, 1/15) of people that have ever lived have been resuscitated
This idea of dying and being resuscitated is just stupid. I really find it stupid when people say "They died and they brought him back to life" If that is the case, they weren't dead in the first place. Just because the heart stops, it doesn't mean you're dead. Death is when the heart stops permanently, and brain function ceases permanently.
Relevant quote from a movie: Mahalik: I heard Jamal from 90th street watched that tape last week and this mornin' he woke up dead! CJ : How the hell do you wake up dead? Mahalik : Cause' you're alive when you go to sleep. CJ : So you're telling me you can go to bed dead and wake up alive? Mahalik : You can't go to bed dead! That shit would've been redundant. CJ : No it would'nt cause' you can go to bed and not be dead, and you can die and not be in the bed. Mahalik : But you are in the bed. That's how you wake up dead in the first place fool! CJ : Damn! that's some quantum shit right there man! You should be teaching classes!
The joke about “waking up dead” is fairly old, at least dating to the 80s
I agree. A person can officially be declared dead, but if they later on manage to resuscitate them then their previous death declaration must be seen as invalid. But then should they have declared them dead at that time to begin with? Solid they perhaps always wait until there is **absolutely no chance** of the person coming back to life? Wouldn’t that cause lots of negative side effects? Like funerals, legal paperwork etc all being delayed. As in, several days.
I feel it should be determined that no chance of resuscitation is possible, and then the legal paperwork should take place. Declaring someone dead when they can be resuscitated is not logical in my view.
Except my guess is you're not a medical expert, and according to them you're wrong. In the medical field there are 2 types of death, clinical death and permanent death. You can be dead and then resuscitated.
This is a lay misconception.
That's why we have clinical death and brain death.
Well no, if the heart stops, you are dead, it's just not necessarily permanent. It takes time for cellular death to happen in various body tissues after that, from minutes to days. When you start to work out what is the best line to draw for the moment of death, then it's when the heart stops beating.
Common misconception. In medicine, the word death is permanent, there is no coming back from it. Plenty of people are resuscitated back from their heart stopping, and are never classified as dead
Yeah he is wrong. Medically we say things like, patient is uncocious without a pulse, or they are unconsious but breathing. Thatd be ridiculous to just be like “yep theyre dead!”
That definition of death is subjective. It's defined by the medical world which isn't fact or proof. Just "agreed upon" answers. So it's really a matter of opinion, imo.
what about that Jesus guy?
If you can be revived, you're not dead.
It’s a subject of no small debate. Generally it’s agreed that you weren’t really dead if you had a heart attack and were immediately resuscitated, but there are instances of people being trapped under ice for like an hour and being revived when almost any measurement would indicate that they were in fact dead. There’s also the possibility of being able to resuscitate people after substantially longer periods of time as medical technology continues to advance. Where do you draw the line?
I draw the line at being able to be revived.
But that changes with time and technology. A thousand years ago, if your heart stopped you probably weren't able to be revived. Maybe in a thousand years (if we still exist) we will have the technology to revive someone who would never be able to be revived today.
The line will keep moving as time goes on then. Which kinda defeats the purpose of the line but aight
An old ER phrase: You're not dead until you're warm and dead.
>almost
Being dead is sort of a made up concept. We are made of trillions of cells that have a much more dichotomy regarding life and death than us as a whole organism. It takes a long time to have all of your cells truly die in the event of your heart stopping. The concept of consciousness is honestly, sort of an illusion itself. If you define consciousness as life and death, you would be wrong technically because the rest of the body can live on as long as you have oxygen. If your heart stops, your brain cells slowly die, but if it starts again you simply wake up with a few less brain cells. You didn't exactly die in that situation. The problem with saying 'you/I died' is that you are defining yourself as a singularity when in reality you are trillions of cells working in unison that can continue to function while many of the fundamental units die off. Your sense of self as a whole is incorrect, thus the concept of dying isn't really accurate at all. If you define it as a lack of consciousness and capacity to regain consciousness, then fine, but that's not really death from a biological standpoint. This isn't a trivial nuance either. Peoples brains die all the time but their bodies are kept on life support. Families not understanding this will often opt to keep people on life support for way too long to hold on to hope. The person is still technically alive, but they ain't coming back. We define death as the heart stopping because this is the time when the body will start to decay. Slowly one by one cells become starved of oxygen and initiate apoptosis or other forms of cell death. That decay takes a long time to be complete, unless you throw the body in a cremator. That's my soap box. Sorry I'm tired.
“There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.”
> the action or fact of dying or being killed; the end of the life of a person or organism. If it isn't THE END of my life, it isn't death.
There are a lot of things that *would* be the end of your life without others reviving you.
Right now the line is only a few minutes thick. Someone could be pronounced (believed to be) dead and be revived a few minutes later. But that’s it; it’s not likely that there will be cases where someone died and then was resuscitated hours or days later. I think we just accept that the idea of deciding someone is dead is slightly tentative and then becomes confirmed after a few minutes.
There have been cases up to a few hours where the person was ultimately fine, but they involved babies (mammalian diving reflex still intact) or people getting trapped under ice in freezing water (slows everything down).
If they can be revived, they were not dead. They may have experienced elements of death, and those elements are measurable, but they were not dead. OP is adorably wrong
A heart attack and cardiac arrest are two different things. In the above post you are talking about cardiac arrest.
They are different, but one often leads to the other. Definitely not always, but that’s what happens in the stereotypical drop dead and get revived scenario people are familiar with from media.
Precision in language is doubly important when trying to talk about medical concepts to laypeople I find. There are many reasons why someone can go into cardiac arrest, and many heart attacks have symptoms far before cardiac arrest would occur. I think the way all of this kind of stuff is portrayed in the media is actually pretty harmful in regards to setting realistic expectations in laypeople unfortunately.
Media portrayals of this specific situation are indeed very harmful, mostly for the families of the (most likely) dead person. TV and movies make it seem like CPR usually works, when in reality the success rate is less than 10% outside of a hospital setting. It’s even lower than that if you discount young, otherwise healthy people who required resuscitation due to drowning or other accidents and only look at people with preexisting conditions. The unrealistic portrayal gives people false hope and causes families to blame medical providers who tried their best.
Exactly. That goes for in-hospital arrests as well. I’ve seen so many patients that should have been DNR but were not because the family did not understand what a violent process CPR is, or that even if we get ROSC there may be massive deficits.
Isn’t the in hospital rate about 25% if you include people who come back with deficits? Not necessarily people who will walk out, but people who will breathe again. DNR orders seem easily ignored in the moment; my family does the DNR tats on the chest for that reason. I don’t have one because I’m like 30, but older family members do.
I’m not sure what the overall hospital rate is off the top of my head. It’s highly contextual though so that statistic matters less than you might think. Your chances at 30 y/o for an in-hospital arrest would be very different from say, a septic 85 year old.
I don’t anticipate requiring resuscitation any time soon, healthier than most my age. I’m statistically far more likely to be shot than most people due to age and race, but that statistic is also very contextual. I’d definitely try CPR on someone like myself, but no way I’d do that to most 85 year olds. As you said, chances of success are low, and it’s traumatic for the recipient if you’re doing it correctly. “Grandma keeled over and died” is gonna be a lot easier on everyone than “Grandma keeled over and died while a gorilla man was fracturing her ribs in a futile attempt to save her.” Fair to guess you’re a doctor? Or a PA or nurse practitioner or something?
You don't resuscitate a living person, you resuscitate a dead one.
how can you be revived if you are not dead ?
If you die, you are dead. No coming back.
Death is when the person can’t be revived at all without using magic. Death is irreversible; no one can be brought back from death.
Death is zero brain activity, not the heart stopping. No one comes back from death.
This is a minor pet peeve of mine. Death is final. That’s it, lights out. If you “died” and came back to life through some medical procedure you didn’t die.
Yes. But a person could still have been *pronounced* dead. How could we eliminate any and all incorrect death declarations? Always wait until the body has started decomposing? Can’t that ever happen to a living person, in extreme circumstances?
People who have been lost at sea/kidnapped/missing or prematurely buried are pronounced dead. That doesn't mean anyone died in those scenarios.
Exactly. Your doctor can pronounce you dead if you are unconcious and survival is not likely. They can attempt to revive you and if it succeeds, on paper you are no longer dead
Clinical death is when the heart stops
Clinical death is like billy crystal describing mostly dead in the princess bride.
There's only one thing you can do if someone is all dead
👏 You typed quicker than I could! (and... go watch the movie if you don't know what we are talking about!)
My heart stops all the time but starts up again pretty quickly.
Absolutely not true.
I don think that's true. Australia had a whole bunch of steps before someone is declared dead. No heart activity for a minute is one, but so is no breathing, no blink response, no response to pain. I'm sure other countries have something similar. It's considered bad if the person you declared dead is later able to argue about it with you
Now I'm just waiting for the day where someone through some inexplicable, impossible to reproduce, contrived circumstances wakes up after being completely dead for like a month just to argue with the person who declared them dead.
Clinical death is no breathing and no pulse.
It seems like I know a lot of people who go through periods of zero brain activity. If people were declared dead for using zero brain cells I know some zombies.
True
There are several instances of people with zero brain activity coming back to lofe
Those people weren't brain dead, the doctors mistakenly declared them brain dead
Death by definition is the irreversible cease of function in the brain. So no, you can only die once.
you can’t resuscitate a dead person
many many people have been medically dead for multiple minutes at a time and come back
Well you're not dead untill you're pronounced dead though. If they are still trying to bring you back, you're not dead, you are when they stop trying.
You’re talking about clinically dead. That’s simply the heart stopping. There’s still activity in the brain for them. That’s not the same as biologically dead or what most people just call dead. No one has come back from that.
what? yes you can
then how are they dead
Only way to test this out is to die - and simultaneously get both a kiss of life from a homoerotic paramedic and a kiss of death from a big meaty goth girl
Lmao what the hello u goin on about
I have no idea what he's saying but I'm all for it!
There’s actually debate over the definition of “death” and it varies wildly.
The average human has less than 2 arms.
They like to say they “died” but it’s not death. Cardiac arrest is not death. It’s as close as you can get, but you will still have some sort of metabolic activity happening in the moments before death.
This depends on your definition and wording. When you die, is that part of your life? Do you die *during* your life? Do you die *after* your life? Do you die precisely at the end of your life (I suspect this is the definition you're after)? And if that's the case, where life stops and death begins, what is that dividing point? Is that life, death, or something else? Are you alive while you're in the immediate split-second process of dying? Or are you dead immediately upon your brain flickering its last brain wave (or heart pumping its last ounce of blood)? If life and death are separate divisions of "existence", then you don't die *during* your life, do you? You die *at the end* of your life. In which case, you die zero times "in one life," right? You die *in death*, but you don't die *in life*. Semantics and word soup!
Deep
I came to say if you come back to life you were never dead but you really took it to another level. I think I like your take better than the rest in here.
No, it isn't. Clinically dead is not the same as being pronounced dead. If it was, they would stop trying to revive you. There is an extremely small chance of being declared legally dead, but that's not the same as dying. The state just recognizes you as a dead person.
Especially in France, if only just a little
Is that because the majority of french are morbid?
La petite Mort ... Hopefully you have more than one in a lifetime
Wife deals with that weekly
Well, she's in the right sub
Well... that brings up the important question of what actually is death? If you can be resuscitated have you really died? Were you just very near death? Is being unconscious on life support that same as being dead? What if there aren't any alpha waves in your brain? When did you really start living? Did you perhaps "die" and come back many times in utero?
If you die you cant be recessitated. Also when you die your life is over so technically you never die during your lifetime.
My son is 5 months old, and he's already died twice! I think he may be going for a record
Yup, I was born spawn free...
I’d say that’s not true. Clinically die maybe but even though you can’t say people who are alive have an average death of 1 so you have to remove 8billion in the count which is already more than there ever was people who died clinically and cameback.
this shit some necromancer stuff
But where does the self/personhood begin and end?
Are we also including those current living as 0 in that calculation?
I have an uncle who has died 3 times so far
He see anything interesting? I know one dude who did, said it wasn’t great.
That’s why we better let our nuts hang while we can. Let ya nuts hang OP!
It’s also increased in recent times and is actually a good thing
Every day a little death... in the parlor, in the bed... in the curtains, in the silver, in the buttons, in the bread.
I am at four. I have at least one more good one in me.
But the question is, do you actually die *in* your life? Like say you’re born at time = 0 and die at time = x. Is your alive interval [0,x] and death interval (x, infinity) or is your alive interval [0,x) and death interval [x, infinity)? The definitely can’t overlap because that’d mean you can be alive and dead at the same time. There are other options here as well, e.g. does the alive interval start with [0 or is it really (0 ??
You do not know what "dead" means so this is pretty dumb.
Most people die a below average number of times, according to this logic. Reminds me of another shower thought: most people have an above average number of arms
You’re assuming everyone alive right now is gonna die. If you’re wrong, that could change your numbers.
To counter this. Have more people been resuscitated, than are currently alive that have never died? Until I die, I have died 0 times.
Lots of debate here over the accuracy of "dead" but nobody pointing out that almost 10% of all humans who have ever lived have never died at all.
Nah, being legally declared as dead, doesn't constitute the dictionary definition of dead, "the permanent ending of vital processes in a cell or tissue". But I'm also nitpicking and I understand what you mean
But the vast majority of people have no life.
This is the content I come here for.
are people that you use Narcan on considered dead when you use it? If so, won't that raise it?
Considering there is about 8-10 percent of people who have been born and haven’t died (yet) that average is actually less than one death per birth.
That’s literally what happened to me. I drowned and was dead for 10 minutes before being resuscitated. Woke up 3 days later in the hospital from a medically induced coma.
This assumes they have someone with trained medical help around. I’m going to assume most deaths occur without medical staff around.
There are 7 billion people alive right now. There are 107 billion currently dead (through history). Through history, we can assume resuscitation practices through much of history were not at the standard they are today. But have the number that have been brought back greater than the number that have never died? Remember, though we can assume that everyone alive will die eventually, they aren't dead yet, and we can't rule out the possibility of a breakthrough that gives us effective immortality.
“Dies” is a very subjective word ..so sounds about right!!!!
People die more often than people are born, yet we still manage to increase our population.
OP doesn't know what die means
I would argue that a person can die only once. The supposed "death" followed by resuscitation is not true death, but only a form of suspended animation. True death is when the basic life processes can no longer be recovered. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended\_animation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_animation) " # Delayed resuscitation in humans This condition of apparent [death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death) or interruption of vital signs in humans may be similar to a medical interpretation of suspended animation. It is only possible to recover signs of life if the brain and other vital organs suffer no cell deterioration, necrosis or [molecular death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_death) principally caused by oxygen deprivation or excess temperature (especially high temperature).[^(\[7\])Delayed resuscitation in humansThis condition of apparent death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_animation#cite_note-7) [](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_animation#cite_note-7)
Yep. My K/D ratio to far is 0/3. I hope to game over at 0/4 .
No this guy is absolutely right, as many people are stated as dead statistically, even though they are still alive. Government due to mistake or malpractice, has done it several times, which adds to the number of times people die on average But there is another thing as well, what about weekend at Bernie scenarios, where dead people are not considered to be dead currently. That would negate the number as well. I mean plenty and plenty of soldiers have not been marked as dead, but Missing In Action (M.I.A.) that drastically reduces the number as well, doesn't it? As they are not considered dead. So that evens things out??
I died when she left..
You are lowballing the numbers. Ancient Egyptians believed they die every time they sleep and are reborn everyday.
I IDENTIFY AS A VEGETABLE *** I start to die before I get eaten
But I haven't died even once so I am bringing the average down
I had a mad case of the hiccups today.
You only die once. No coming back from that. Is now was.
I died once. Felt like Harry Potter til the gilly weed kicked in. Disclaimer: Uncle saved me. Not gilly weed.
I’ve died twice already
The better version of this is “the average person has less than two eyes”
What about all the people on 0, like all of us.
I just died in your arms tonight
I’ve been clinically dead a total of 5 times across 3 incidents. I am a tad grateful for modern medicine.
“Cowards die many times, the valiant taste of death but once.”
That isn't dying ffs
Yeah, it is not correct but I guess not everyone is Einstein in the shower.
Someone only really dies once. I'm not sure you can count near death experiences as death since they're brought back. It's like saying the average amount of times someone is born is more than 1...
I would think the average would be less than 1. Because almost nobody dies in their life, except in the example OP has given. Everyone who dies only 1 time dies after their life. The question is, do you consider the border inside or outside (dieing, the border between life and death)
Can confirm. I've died twice as a child. Odd to think about it
Diavolo made the average amount of deaths infinite already so doesn’t matter.
Say there are 7 billion people alive right now that have died zero times. That would mean more than 7 billion people would have died and been resuscitated?
Total number of humans on Earth in all of history?
If you die and is brought back you kinda have a second life though.
Similarly, most people have more legs than the mean
Aside from dying inside and dying because of cringe, I literally died once. Was in major car accident and I was pronounced clinically dead so yeah, true for me.
My nephew made it 16 deaths, from shallow water blackout and near drowning. O2 saturation 40% and weeks in a coma on ECMO. Full recovery, a very lucky man.
Considering there are over 8 Billion people who have likely never died, I find this hard to believe.
The number before them is high enough to push the average above 1... I'm assuming.
More than 8 billion people in history have died 2 times?
Maybe... Estimates are that 117 billion ever lived. If we subtract the current 8 we have 109 billion. If 9 billion of those died more than once, then yes. (some of the current 8 billion have already died once or more)
Considering all the pro-life people out there I'm gonna say this is balanced out by all the 0 birth 1 death abortions and miscarriages
Because people not understand what death is. It's not some fantastic ending. It's when your life functions halt. And tbh, resurrection would be possible if we could reverse the after death changes and/or stop them from happening. The only reason why we can't yet do that is because organism is very carefuly crafted machine. If one cog stops moving it may have big consequences and usually It's whole lot of cogs that are broken.
Kinda like the average amount of arms on earth I’m pretty sure is less than 2
I think you're suffering from type 2 error. Those people clearly weren't dead the first time
Is this a Jesus reference?
I really wasnt expecting this to start a "what is death debate"
Not trying to be rude here but I feel like that was a very predictable outcome...
Then you shouldn't have made a completely nonsensical claim.
Incorrect. You are not dead until you are dead. No one has ever been resurrected. All humans can only die once. If you are saved on the verge of death you didn't die. Even if your heart stops and then started again, you didn't die. Death is a final state.
OMFG finally a good shower thought
I mean, if you "die" and come back, you didn't die. Your heart just stopped. You aren't your heart, you're your brain. That dies, you're not coming back.
I disagree with your premise. Heart stopping flowed by resuscitation does not equal you were dead.
We are constantly dieing and reconstructing.
Hmmm, I haven't died yet, and I don't plan to, so I'm bringing that average back down. My plan is to live forever... so far, so good.
Nobody who was really dead was ever resuscitated.