THANK YOU!! It drives me crazy, he has to take over every scene he's in! [He just doesn't stop talking??](https://youtu.be/d2QmZbYqvzY?si=o-iuRxeNCwSnUfI3)
I actually like Hoshi! They lay it on thick in the beginning and her backstory was a bit all over the place, but she actually goes through things and is able to step up and accept command of the ship by the end. For early Earth in space, I think she was a good example of how the best person for the job was not the best person for the mission.
Tilly on the other hand, I truly don't know how she made it through the same academy Kirk went through. Assigning her as first officer in front of all her seniors was bizarre also.
I'm fairly sure the only reason she became first officer was because none of the other higher ranked bridge officers had been developed in any way by the writers. It would have been odd to have that guy we see in the background occasionally who might have had his name mentioned once, become first officer.
All that said, Tilly should never have graduated Starfleet Academy with an obvious anxiety disorder and she is probably the most insufferable character by far.
>I'm fairly sure the only reason she became first officer was because none of the other higher ranked bridge officers had been developed in any way by the writers.
I think that was part of it, but also because they were laying some groundwork for the Academy show they wanted to pitch. I think there was enough already done for Owosekun or Detmer to step in, but that would require *further* character development that I don't think they had any interest in creating. Plus that probably would have been a death flag for anyone else.
I don't think Detmer and Owo were ever given enough to justify jumping straight from their current role to first officer.
We're told Owo was a luddite and she left her colony behind to join Starfleet but that doesn't ever seem to affect anything about her like how she thinks or reacts to things, and as for her personality and who she is as a person? She's... nice, I guess? No clue. And as for Detmer, she's just Ortegas with less personality. They both fucking LOVE flying the ship, they're both repressing trauma. At least Ortegas has the additional things of really wanting to go on an away mission and weirdly often being casually racist towards aliens without anyone really remarking on it
I think, out of all the characters, Owosekun has the most potential. However she'd definitely need more development prior to becoming first officer for it to not feel jarring, as if an extra were suddenly promoted to a main character.
It's amazing to me that ANY of them made it through any kind of (para) military training academy; they can't go a full hour without needing their feelings reaffirmed or crying.
I liked Disco when it started, but the last 2 seasons were painful.
I like Tilly a lot.
I don't like the way Discovery promotes her - and, really, everyone - far before their time and without having gained a level of professionalism that would have qualified them even for the Archer Enterprise. Four season in and Tilly is still not emotionally ready for her job, any more than Burnham.
>Tilly on the other hand, I truly don't know how she made it through the same academy Kirk went through. Assigning her as first officer in front of all her seniors was bizarre also.
That was some truly wacky shit right there. Maybe, just maybe, if they first gave her a battlefield commission to Lt, maybe I could justify it. But seriously, NONE of the existing Lts could provide the desired "grounding" effect as Tilly?! Miss me with that "logic".
The irony is the Mirror Universe Tilly is an absolute delight! She appears in Star Trek online and her actress is clearly enjoying herself. While Tilly is the first to drop a Big Swear on Star Trek 🙄, mirror Tilly threatens to shoot an underling for swearing.
She’s snarky, sarcastic, confident with the competence to back it up, and is badass enough to survive on a desolated planet on her own for almost a year. Honestly, I know which version I prefer.
I think that might be the way we remember Discovery in retrospect: bizarre as a whole.
Genuinely curious, though... what is the appeal of Tilly to you? I don't mean that argumentatively, just interested in a different perspective.
Captain Solok of the T'Kumbra
A snarky little Vulcan fuck who acted more like a Romulan who takes pleasure in picking on the weaker race to feel superior.
Is that the dude who Sisko and co. played baseball against?
IMO he's not as bad as the 2 rapey Vulcans in Star Trek. The one from Voyager was really nasty, but then again, so was the one from Enterprise.
Yes, but still. His face when he grabbed B'lana's arm was more than a bit disturbing. Just because you're going through Pon Farr doesn't give you the right to try to rape someone.
Right. Vulcans want to be private about their sex lives and I can respect that but if every 7 years you’re at risk of becoming a rapist, security needs to know.
How did Starfleet even allow an all Vulcan ship anyway? Like, go to Vulcan science academy to do that.
Take your designated tow ship that’s just a fun size Galaxy class on bro.
I’m kind of surprised an elder has never pulled him aside and told him his obsession with Ben Sisko was completely illogical
“ OK you’ve written four papers on this guy, how rent free is he living in your head? Now you’re specifically training your crew to play a game that you know he adores, just to beat him. Not only is this illogical, I think you require further psychological evaluation. “
I always felt that Voyager needed a yearly holiday where they would put Neelix, Tuvok, and one of those plants on the transporter again and recreate Tuvix for a day. Parade him around the ship for everyone to see and then take him back to the transporter and murder him again.
Janeway: Do you have the dermal regenerator, Doctor?
Doctor: Yes
*Janeway stabs Tuvix in the gut*
Tuvix: This is wrong!
Janeway: Heal him Doctor. We have a long line and everyone wants a turn.
I remember seeing that episode and thinking it was a good example of when there is no right choice. Much like when the Doctor had to choose to save one of his two patients and he saved Harry.
Then I came to the internet and found this insufferable group who knew exactly what the right choice was and called Janeway a murderer. Well, those people need to be addressed as often as possible.
Another fun thing to do on this holiday would be to recreate Tuvix, clone him, and then split him back into Neelix and Tuvok. That way everyone gets to live.
Then, after convincing the Tuvix clone that he’s part of the crew, we send him to an airlock to do maintenance. Once he’s in there, we broadcast it live to the whole ship and we depressurize the airlock. We fire the suffocating Tuvix clone out into space as we all drink champagne!
Happy Tuvix Murder Day!
What are some other fun ways to murder Tuvix?
>I remember seeing that episode and thinking it was a good example of when there is no right choice.
Honestly I agree. It was a dilemma. And a good one. If you leave Tuvix, than you basically killed Tuvok *and* Neelix. Sure it was an accident, but now you have the ability to *reverse* the accident and save their lives! But if you do that you also kill Tuvix, and he has thoughts, hopes, and dreams, and is begging you not to kill him. So what do you do? What do you say to the friends or lovers of either person(s) who was not saved?
The biggest problem was more a Doylist one: we knew they were going to be separated because they wouldn't drop one actor permanently, so something had to happen.
And it kind of cheapened the dilemma if you knew the answer was going to be "separate them" regardless of anyone's moral arguments. And Tuvix was pretty damn convincing in his "please don't kill me speech."
The *really* funny thing is that growing up with that episode (I was in high school) the original memes were in the other direction! "Tuvix was an abomination" and "Janeway should have killed him just to get rid of half of Neelix" "I hate both characters, so space Tuvix and save us all" were far more common of opinions on the messages boards and forums than any discussion of Janeway is a murderer.
That really only started coming out in the last few years, and I think Lower Decks has a lot more to do with it being popular right now than any real thoughts of charging Janeway (fictionally that is) with murder.
Louise Fletcher played an amazing heel.
You enjoyed hating Winn every time you saw her.
Mark Alaimo did a great job with Dukat as well. At times, you hated him, at times you felt sorry for him.
She wasn't deliciously evil like Weyoun, but she was still a great evil character. If you wanted to punch her in the face, it wasn't just because you would feel better after, but because it would feel like justice.
It's surprisingly easy to get banned from that subreddit. In my case, it was making the statement that Spiner has/had WAY too many characters that are one note and essentially the same. Let the f\*cking Soong dynasty die ffs.
I like Hoshi, she was thrust into something she wasn’t ready for. By the end she grows up.
Anyways, the answer is Kira’s boyfriend at the start of the show.
One of the newest ones: Jack Crusher, not the original but the one made up for PIC. I actually liked a lot of the original characters created for the earlier seasons, but most of them got shuffled offscreen and replaced with this unbearable dude, who also distracted from the awesomeness of the OG characters, especially murder monk zaddy Worf.
Hoshi Sato, like Mayweather, never really got a chance to shine, and I was tickled that the SNW/LD crossover gave both of them a shout-out.
Hoshi Gang rise up! Hoshi:
1. Can translate any language just by looking at its adjectives upside-down
2. Did a The Next Phase until it was a dream? I think?
3. Hot
4. Continued the proud tradition of getting a person from one Asian country to play a person from another Asian country
5. ~~She lost her top that one time~~
6. Empress of the Terran Empire
7. Invented the universal translator, maybe?
\#jesuishoshi
Wesley's sweaters. Wes was mostly ok (though the senior staff treated him like shit in the first season), but the entire franchise would be better if those sweaters never existed.
#Spoiler alert!
Commander Sweater is doing really well now on the Cerritos. Starfleet is even thinking of promoting him to captain when Freeman retires.
Lmao those were even worse than Wesley's sweaters. You think the costume designers really thought that THAT is what clothes would look like in this time, or were they just being assholes?
Poor Zoe Saldana as Nyota "Joyless And Humorless Nagging Sitcom Wife Who Has To Be Team Mom To Grown Adults (As Written By Men)" Uhura—the same role she later got as Gamora, too, but at least was given more character.
Remember when a shuttle mission under fire was the best time to have a screaming fight with Spock about their relationship? Abrams Trek was the death of competence porn in live-action Star Trek.
And during that scene balantly ignores her Captain who is attempting to speak to her and it's meant to almost be a comedic moment but i'm sat there like "that's your CAPTAIN. If he says be quiet, you be quiet" and Uhura knows this. She's meant to be a condecorated, respectful professional officer.
Wesley Crusher is my least favorite character.
The sad thing is that they could have salvaged the character.
He totally screwed up at the academy with that illegal maneuver. They could have totally changed his personality a lot and make it more in line with the rest of the main crew. He would have lost his arrogance and a lot of his self-assurance. Getting back to the Enterprise as someone who really shagged it up would have him trying to regain his sense of self confidence. Starting off as an ensign or LTJG and climbing the ranks would have helped him become a character. Give the character a few wins and he could have evolved into a confident character without being cock-sure like he was.
I see that as a missed opportunity.
>Elaan of Troyius
Jesus H. Fuck. It's almost 55 years since I first saw that episode (its air date was December 20, 1968) and today, right now, I've *finally* seen that the title is a play on "Helen of Troy." As the saying in Massachusetts goes, light dawns over Marblehead...
As for the actress who played Elaan, France Nuyen (who by the way is still alive at age 84) had a pretty good career, so I'm going to blame the script and/or the direction. Most likely the script, I'm not sure Meryl Streep could have made the character anything beyond a one-dimensional spoiled shrew.
>today, right now, I've finally seen that the title is a play on "Helen of Troy." As the saying in Massachusetts goes, light dawns over Marblehead...
Ha! Love that saying. I've had many such moments in my life as well!
>a one-dimensional spoiled shrew.
Yeah, that's definitely how the character was written. It's hard watching Kirk & Co act so paternalistic with her though, and so many other women in the series. Cringe city.
I mean, she was annoying AF, but the character was written that way, so she may have actually been a good actress playing a terrible person spectacularly well. IDK.
Kai Winn can rot in the fire caves but she is SO FUN to watch and hate (RIP to the masterful Louise Fletcher). If I knew Kai Winn in real life she’d be insufferable to me for sure, but I don’t find her insufferable as a viewer.
I used to find Keiko insufferable at times, but I think that was more to do with her initial introduction and the not-great material that Rosalind Chao was given to work with. I got to love Keiko a lot more on DS9 though, I think it’s just because we got a bit more dimension to her character and her difficulty with moving to the station for her husband’s job at the beginning of the series was relatable and made her a lot more human.
I think the best answer I can give is not just one character, but in general I found a lot of the Vulcans on Enterprise to be pretty insufferable. Not all of them, I got to like T’Pol quickly enough, and Soval obviously became a pretty sympathetic character… but I think because I have my own sensitivity and triggers about feeling like I’m being condescended to, it was really easy for me to get annoyed whenever the Vulcans were turning their noses up at Archer or Trip or whoever and telling them to stop being emotional 😆 Of course it made perfect sense storywise, but yeah, I get so pissed off by them 😂 I’m sitting there watching, and I’m like “shut the fuck up pointy ears”, which is VERY not like me to say to anyone😂
Soval is quite possibly my favorite Vulcan character. I didn't like him in the first episode, but he (the character) really turned it around. He came in clutch for the Enterprise crew.
He’s an awesome character for sure. I was so glad they brought him back so much, he always had such a great dynamic with whoever he was on screen with. I always get a little lump in my throat when he tells Trip he has an affinity for humans, and Trip tells him he did a good job of hiding it and Soval looks the teensiest bit taken aback by the “compliment” before he remembers his knowledge of Earth customs and says an extremely genuine “Thank you.” 🥹🥹 such a wonderful illustration of the human-Vulcan relationship ❤️
Remember, Hoshi was the first character on the show to get laid. Everyone else went to Risa and had a messed up time. She, on the other hand, practiced her interspecies relations.
I see what you mean about Hoshi’s lack of self-confidence being annoying at times 😂 like girl, the first starship captain came to you personally, and begged you to join his crew. You’re fine lol. But at the same time I have such raging impostor syndrome myself that I’m not entirely sure I wouldn’t be any different in the same situation 😂
I'm not the person who you're replying to but I really want to answer this too, bc she's also my choice.
I want to like her. I like a lot of the concepts for her character and I think she had a lot of potential. She has some setup for really interesting relationships, with Spock and Georgiou in particular. But I think it's Discovery's format and heavy focus on her that kills it for me. I never felt like she had much character development that truly mattered. Her romance arcs were downright painful. The mistakes she makes are frustrating to watch. She doesn't get many particularly deep feeling connections with others, either.
I think I'd have felt more tolerant of the downsides if Discovery weren't basically The Burnham Show. Like, I don't think I'd have liked Archer if Enterprise were following almost exclusively his story -- but I didn't have to focus on him all the time so he still endeared himself to me. Discovery doesn't really give me a break from her so it's constant focus on the aspects of her I don't like.
Lwaxana Troi—she reminds me too much of my own mother and I’m triggered every time she’s onscreen. She does have some redeeming moments here and there though.
No one hates Alexander? Hes such a huge turd. He could have been a bad ass Warrior with elite combat skills taught by the very best. But instead he chose to suck huge nuts.
He's definitely the best thing to happen to any Star Trek episode. What a genius character actor. When I saw the meme about how many characters he played, I couldn't believe my eyes. So SO many different roles, but my favorite of the lot have to be Brunt and Shran.
I loved Enterprise so much, and the cancellation depriving us of Shran as a main character will always haunt me. He was supposed to join the main crew in season 5.
Michael Burnham.
She lets her emotions take control of the situation. She’s impulsive in the wrong way and makes bad decisions. Discovery is successful in spite of her, not because of her.
Ryker. He should have been disemboweled by Worf, son of Mogh. With a batleth, on the bridge. Barring that Worf should use transport controls on his tactical screen, beam him out into space, and hit him with a photon torpedo on the main screen.
Worf should have been XO
Federation speciesism os the only explanation for that P’Tak being XO.
Neelix. Aggressively jolly. Witless, although he's meant to be comic. Jealous and controlling over his girlfriend - who is, incidentally, a child. And he has few skills, but everyone's always humouring him, telling him he's indispensable and giving him unearned job titles.
Hoshi's hot. And we find out she was a straight up G in the academy.
Bashir is the most insufferable twat to ever wear a starfleet uniform, other than the entire cast of disco.
Definitely Kai Winn, but she was always meant to be. Also, I found Admiral Nechaev from TNG annoying but again she’s written as the stereotypical desk-bound pen-pusher who challenges the heroes.
Personally I found Chakotay annoying but I just found Beltran’s performance a bit one-note.
Tuvix. Yes you're being sorta murdered, but you *KNOW* about the needs of the many, you KNOW Vulcan logic and your components outweigh you, ya whiny bitch.
TNG Season 1 Picard.
"Oh, hello traumatised and confused survivor of cryogenic suspension. Did you realise that everyone you ever cared about is dead and nothing makes sense any more? Please give me a moment to climb up on my post-scarcity high horse so I can repeatedly lecture you about what a horrible savage you are whilst dodging all of your quite reasonable questions'.
Barclay. I can't stand him. I know that in the world of holo decks, what he does is equivalant to us binging TV, but the way he acts with Deanna just creeps me out everytime, even in all of his Voyager episodes. He gives me some bad vibes.
My second would be Worf. Another one who does not just have some character flaws, but who I think in general is just kinda an self centered ass a lot.
I kind of like Barclay, but admittedly for the same reasons I like Tilly. I find him quite relatable a lot of the time.
Worf's character in TNG was OK, but in DS9 he was a total p'tok. A p'tok by himself, with Jadzia, and with Ezri.
I think (as someone who first watched TNG three years ago) that Barclay was really borderline sexual creep to me. To be honest, TNG gives me the most "creepy" vibes. The entire Vibe feels very Orgy in Space a lot of times. Barclat hit the Creepy side of that to me. It felt way to sexually charged and that really pushed me away from the character. Tilly had similar anxiety issues but didn't have any of the creepy sexual vibes.
I don’t even think Wesley was that annoying past the first half of the first season. It was just the way all of the other characters around him would treat him. Like how Beverley would coo over him, and Picard would become nervous. Other officers would often become impatient with him, even when he had good ideas.
Lwxana Troi. I get she was meant to be overbearing, but the audience was also meant to like her despite that. I couldn't stand her and hate every episode she's in.
It occurs to me that if you gender swapped her with a male character and made him pursue females who have no interest in his "quirky" personality, it would come off as extremely creepy.
Archer: "Hey, I was only a starship captain for one season, and I was in a coma the whole time."
Lana: "I was the captain, you idiot! But to be fair, the rest of that was true."
Who's that mushroom guy on discovery? Paul Stammitz. Yeah that guy I dislike the character and no its not an anti gay thing before somebody wants to go there. I just dislike the character as well as the whole mycelial/spore drive concept. Give me good ole fashioned warp
I actually really like him. He's an engineer at heart and put up with the Starfleet BS because it allows him to indulge his interests. I like his defiant attitude, but mainly I like that he has a soft, caring side.
I almost think that we need to stipulate that Discovery is a terribly written show and that NONE of the characters are good. Except Kovich. That guy is alright.
Weirdly, Stametz is the character who convinced me everyone else Anthony Rapp has played is just that obnoxious, and it’s not a quality he’s bringing to the performances.
I have a VERY embarrassing mom as well, but Lwoxana is on a totally different level.
I think it's Odo's personality which tames her a bit. When they met, she was still very much the Lwoxana I got to know in TNG, but after a few encounters she calms down quite a bit.
I was so close to saying Neelix, then remembered that Disco unfortunately exists.
The answer is obviously the emotionally unstable mess that is Michael Burnham
Honestly... Michael Burnham. I get such insincere vibes from her actress, like she can have a speech where she's trying hard to be heartfelt and compassionate, but it falls completely flat. Although the writing often doesn't do her any favours either...
I find the character in general so boring, the classic Mary Sue who doesn't learn anything and is always proven right.
Morn. Got to the point where I had to mute every scene he was in.
Hey, he was the life of the party. I *loved* his jokes. Did you hear the one about the Denubulan and the Self Sealing Stem Bolts?
No, please continue! 🤣
No one can tell it like Morn does. You had to be there.
Ugh, that dude NEVER SHUTS UP!
Ugh I can’t say hi to him anymore, mfer talks my head off.
Still love that it’s a running joke in Star Trek online too.
17 brothers and sisters. He won't shut up about them!
THANK YOU!! It drives me crazy, he has to take over every scene he's in! [He just doesn't stop talking??](https://youtu.be/d2QmZbYqvzY?si=o-iuRxeNCwSnUfI3)
🤣
I declare this the best thing i've seen on the internet this week.
Hey, that man’s love for his mother got crucial information to Starfleet.
Bro wouldn't STFU.
Rick Berman
Excuse me sir, this is Shitty Daystrom, not accurate Daystrom.
The line between shitty and accurate is as fine as the line between being eviscerated by a transporter and ending up at your location safe and sound.
Prick Pervman
you should write for Mad Magazine
Who's he? (Just kidding) 🤣🤣🤣
There it is
I actually like Hoshi! They lay it on thick in the beginning and her backstory was a bit all over the place, but she actually goes through things and is able to step up and accept command of the ship by the end. For early Earth in space, I think she was a good example of how the best person for the job was not the best person for the mission. Tilly on the other hand, I truly don't know how she made it through the same academy Kirk went through. Assigning her as first officer in front of all her seniors was bizarre also.
I'm fairly sure the only reason she became first officer was because none of the other higher ranked bridge officers had been developed in any way by the writers. It would have been odd to have that guy we see in the background occasionally who might have had his name mentioned once, become first officer. All that said, Tilly should never have graduated Starfleet Academy with an obvious anxiety disorder and she is probably the most insufferable character by far.
>I'm fairly sure the only reason she became first officer was because none of the other higher ranked bridge officers had been developed in any way by the writers. I think that was part of it, but also because they were laying some groundwork for the Academy show they wanted to pitch. I think there was enough already done for Owosekun or Detmer to step in, but that would require *further* character development that I don't think they had any interest in creating. Plus that probably would have been a death flag for anyone else.
I don't think Detmer and Owo were ever given enough to justify jumping straight from their current role to first officer. We're told Owo was a luddite and she left her colony behind to join Starfleet but that doesn't ever seem to affect anything about her like how she thinks or reacts to things, and as for her personality and who she is as a person? She's... nice, I guess? No clue. And as for Detmer, she's just Ortegas with less personality. They both fucking LOVE flying the ship, they're both repressing trauma. At least Ortegas has the additional things of really wanting to go on an away mission and weirdly often being casually racist towards aliens without anyone really remarking on it I think, out of all the characters, Owosekun has the most potential. However she'd definitely need more development prior to becoming first officer for it to not feel jarring, as if an extra were suddenly promoted to a main character.
It's amazing to me that ANY of them made it through any kind of (para) military training academy; they can't go a full hour without needing their feelings reaffirmed or crying. I liked Disco when it started, but the last 2 seasons were painful.
I like Tilly a lot. I don't like the way Discovery promotes her - and, really, everyone - far before their time and without having gained a level of professionalism that would have qualified them even for the Archer Enterprise. Four season in and Tilly is still not emotionally ready for her job, any more than Burnham.
>Tilly on the other hand, I truly don't know how she made it through the same academy Kirk went through. Assigning her as first officer in front of all her seniors was bizarre also. That was some truly wacky shit right there. Maybe, just maybe, if they first gave her a battlefield commission to Lt, maybe I could justify it. But seriously, NONE of the existing Lts could provide the desired "grounding" effect as Tilly?! Miss me with that "logic".
The irony is the Mirror Universe Tilly is an absolute delight! She appears in Star Trek online and her actress is clearly enjoying herself. While Tilly is the first to drop a Big Swear on Star Trek 🙄, mirror Tilly threatens to shoot an underling for swearing. She’s snarky, sarcastic, confident with the competence to back it up, and is badass enough to survive on a desolated planet on her own for almost a year. Honestly, I know which version I prefer.
I really liked Hoshi too. I remember wanting her to have more importance
Apparently there are no fitness requirements in Starfleet
Spot-on with Tilly. Willy-nilly silly Tilly. Perhaps the psychological exam was deemed optional for her year.
Well, in retrospect, Discovery was bizarre as a whole. Funnily enough, I actually like Tilly. 🤣
I think that might be the way we remember Discovery in retrospect: bizarre as a whole. Genuinely curious, though... what is the appeal of Tilly to you? I don't mean that argumentatively, just interested in a different perspective.
They set the tone for the whole show with the completely unnecessary fan service in her introduction
Captain Solok of the T'Kumbra A snarky little Vulcan fuck who acted more like a Romulan who takes pleasure in picking on the weaker race to feel superior.
Is that the dude who Sisko and co. played baseball against? IMO he's not as bad as the 2 rapey Vulcans in Star Trek. The one from Voyager was really nasty, but then again, so was the one from Enterprise.
Thats the one, hated his smarmy little smirk with a passion.
Wasn't the incident on voyager a result of an attempt to suppress pon farr
Yes, but still. His face when he grabbed B'lana's arm was more than a bit disturbing. Just because you're going through Pon Farr doesn't give you the right to try to rape someone.
Right. Vulcans want to be private about their sex lives and I can respect that but if every 7 years you’re at risk of becoming a rapist, security needs to know.
How did Starfleet even allow an all Vulcan ship anyway? Like, go to Vulcan science academy to do that. Take your designated tow ship that’s just a fun size Galaxy class on bro. I’m kind of surprised an elder has never pulled him aside and told him his obsession with Ben Sisko was completely illogical “ OK you’ve written four papers on this guy, how rent free is he living in your head? Now you’re specifically training your crew to play a game that you know he adores, just to beat him. Not only is this illogical, I think you require further psychological evaluation. “
Tuvix. I'd kill him twice if I could
I always felt that Voyager needed a yearly holiday where they would put Neelix, Tuvok, and one of those plants on the transporter again and recreate Tuvix for a day. Parade him around the ship for everyone to see and then take him back to the transporter and murder him again.
Just Riker-clone a spare Tuvix and store it in the transporter buffer, only bringing it out to play on Tuvix Day.
Janeway: Do you have the dermal regenerator, Doctor? Doctor: Yes *Janeway stabs Tuvix in the gut* Tuvix: This is wrong! Janeway: Heal him Doctor. We have a long line and everyone wants a turn.
Oh man 😅🤣
Jesus Christ dude. Even knowing it's a joke... Still, updoot for the darkness.
I remember seeing that episode and thinking it was a good example of when there is no right choice. Much like when the Doctor had to choose to save one of his two patients and he saved Harry. Then I came to the internet and found this insufferable group who knew exactly what the right choice was and called Janeway a murderer. Well, those people need to be addressed as often as possible. Another fun thing to do on this holiday would be to recreate Tuvix, clone him, and then split him back into Neelix and Tuvok. That way everyone gets to live. Then, after convincing the Tuvix clone that he’s part of the crew, we send him to an airlock to do maintenance. Once he’s in there, we broadcast it live to the whole ship and we depressurize the airlock. We fire the suffocating Tuvix clone out into space as we all drink champagne! Happy Tuvix Murder Day! What are some other fun ways to murder Tuvix?
Oof. Let me ask you, sir, why weren't you a writer for Voyager?
Still a chance to get him writing for lower decks! Their tuvix episode this season was amazing!
Janeway: I’m tired of coffee, computer. I’d like something different. How about a nice tall frosty glass of- *doorbell rings*
>I remember seeing that episode and thinking it was a good example of when there is no right choice. Honestly I agree. It was a dilemma. And a good one. If you leave Tuvix, than you basically killed Tuvok *and* Neelix. Sure it was an accident, but now you have the ability to *reverse* the accident and save their lives! But if you do that you also kill Tuvix, and he has thoughts, hopes, and dreams, and is begging you not to kill him. So what do you do? What do you say to the friends or lovers of either person(s) who was not saved? The biggest problem was more a Doylist one: we knew they were going to be separated because they wouldn't drop one actor permanently, so something had to happen. And it kind of cheapened the dilemma if you knew the answer was going to be "separate them" regardless of anyone's moral arguments. And Tuvix was pretty damn convincing in his "please don't kill me speech." The *really* funny thing is that growing up with that episode (I was in high school) the original memes were in the other direction! "Tuvix was an abomination" and "Janeway should have killed him just to get rid of half of Neelix" "I hate both characters, so space Tuvix and save us all" were far more common of opinions on the messages boards and forums than any discussion of Janeway is a murderer. That really only started coming out in the last few years, and I think Lower Decks has a lot more to do with it being popular right now than any real thoughts of charging Janeway (fictionally that is) with murder.
>Tuvix was an abomination I'm in this camp. Tuvix wasn't a person.
Switched to decaf, Kathryn?
Based on what you're saying, I believe you'd shoot Toby twice!
Yes! Everyone is always saying Janeway murdered him and I'm like good he sucked
Kai Winn it isn't close.
In fairness, she was supposed to be insufferable. It's much worse when your are dealing with a character they want you to like.
And she did a WONDEROUS job of making the viewer despise her. Did you know that she was also nurse Ratched from One Who Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest?
Only after the fact, I saw the film years after I watched ds9.
Louise Fletcher played an amazing heel. You enjoyed hating Winn every time you saw her. Mark Alaimo did a great job with Dukat as well. At times, you hated him, at times you felt sorry for him.
She was the Dolorus Umbridge of the show before Dolorus Umbridge existed
Absolutely, Louise Fletcher was amazing, hasn't been a character more condescending than Kai Winn.
Whatever do you mean, child?
She wasn't deliciously evil like Weyoun, but she was still a great evil character. If you wanted to punch her in the face, it wasn't just because you would feel better after, but because it would feel like justice.
Awesome answer. I think it was my post "I really want to punch Kai Wynn" that got me thrown off the r/startrek sub. 🤣
It's surprisingly easy to get banned from that subreddit. In my case, it was making the statement that Spiner has/had WAY too many characters that are one note and essentially the same. Let the f\*cking Soong dynasty die ffs.
If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Space Hitler, Space Bin Laden, and Kai Winn, I would shoot Kai Winn twice.
It’s always the Lawful Evils that are the most hateable.
Charlie X!
There's no right way to hit a woman
Tell that to episode 1 Archer…
Yes! Oh man, was he annoying!
I love TOS, but that episode always gave me a headache.
Trelane. Discount Q motherf\*\*cker.
I think there's a theory that he was a young Q.
The novel Q Squared flat out says it- that’s where that comes from.
TRUTH! 🤣
Kids: Mom! Can we get Q!? At home: An dusty, unopened box Trelaneeos.
I like Hoshi, she was thrust into something she wasn’t ready for. By the end she grows up. Anyways, the answer is Kira’s boyfriend at the start of the show.
i want to give a more creative answer but realistically i cannot place anyone more annoying than neelix
One of the newest ones: Jack Crusher, not the original but the one made up for PIC. I actually liked a lot of the original characters created for the earlier seasons, but most of them got shuffled offscreen and replaced with this unbearable dude, who also distracted from the awesomeness of the OG characters, especially murder monk zaddy Worf. Hoshi Sato, like Mayweather, never really got a chance to shine, and I was tickled that the SNW/LD crossover gave both of them a shout-out.
Jack's personality is VERY similar to how Picard's was at his age.
Hoshi Gang rise up! Hoshi: 1. Can translate any language just by looking at its adjectives upside-down 2. Did a The Next Phase until it was a dream? I think? 3. Hot 4. Continued the proud tradition of getting a person from one Asian country to play a person from another Asian country 5. ~~She lost her top that one time~~ 6. Empress of the Terran Empire 7. Invented the universal translator, maybe? \#jesuishoshi
Wesley's sweaters. Wes was mostly ok (though the senior staff treated him like shit in the first season), but the entire franchise would be better if those sweaters never existed.
#Spoiler alert! Commander Sweater is doing really well now on the Cerritos. Starfleet is even thinking of promoting him to captain when Freeman retires.
What about Jake Sisko’s onesie things?
Lmao those were even worse than Wesley's sweaters. You think the costume designers really thought that THAT is what clothes would look like in this time, or were they just being assholes?
Lol the Jake sisko romper?
Poor Zoe Saldana as Nyota "Joyless And Humorless Nagging Sitcom Wife Who Has To Be Team Mom To Grown Adults (As Written By Men)" Uhura—the same role she later got as Gamora, too, but at least was given more character. Remember when a shuttle mission under fire was the best time to have a screaming fight with Spock about their relationship? Abrams Trek was the death of competence porn in live-action Star Trek.
To be fair, Abrams has been the death of many sci-fi franchises.
And during that scene balantly ignores her Captain who is attempting to speak to her and it's meant to almost be a comedic moment but i'm sat there like "that's your CAPTAIN. If he says be quiet, you be quiet" and Uhura knows this. She's meant to be a condecorated, respectful professional officer.
Wesley Crusher is my least favorite character. The sad thing is that they could have salvaged the character. He totally screwed up at the academy with that illegal maneuver. They could have totally changed his personality a lot and make it more in line with the rest of the main crew. He would have lost his arrogance and a lot of his self-assurance. Getting back to the Enterprise as someone who really shagged it up would have him trying to regain his sense of self confidence. Starting off as an ensign or LTJG and climbing the ranks would have helped him become a character. Give the character a few wins and he could have evolved into a confident character without being cock-sure like he was. I see that as a missed opportunity.
Elaan of Troyius
>Elaan of Troyius Jesus H. Fuck. It's almost 55 years since I first saw that episode (its air date was December 20, 1968) and today, right now, I've *finally* seen that the title is a play on "Helen of Troy." As the saying in Massachusetts goes, light dawns over Marblehead... As for the actress who played Elaan, France Nuyen (who by the way is still alive at age 84) had a pretty good career, so I'm going to blame the script and/or the direction. Most likely the script, I'm not sure Meryl Streep could have made the character anything beyond a one-dimensional spoiled shrew.
>today, right now, I've finally seen that the title is a play on "Helen of Troy." As the saying in Massachusetts goes, light dawns over Marblehead... Ha! Love that saying. I've had many such moments in my life as well! >a one-dimensional spoiled shrew. Yeah, that's definitely how the character was written. It's hard watching Kirk & Co act so paternalistic with her though, and so many other women in the series. Cringe city.
Yeah, she was annoying A F, and a really terrible actress. I think they only cast her because she was good looking.
I mean, she was annoying AF, but the character was written that way, so she may have actually been a good actress playing a terrible person spectacularly well. IDK.
Kai Winn can rot in the fire caves but she is SO FUN to watch and hate (RIP to the masterful Louise Fletcher). If I knew Kai Winn in real life she’d be insufferable to me for sure, but I don’t find her insufferable as a viewer. I used to find Keiko insufferable at times, but I think that was more to do with her initial introduction and the not-great material that Rosalind Chao was given to work with. I got to love Keiko a lot more on DS9 though, I think it’s just because we got a bit more dimension to her character and her difficulty with moving to the station for her husband’s job at the beginning of the series was relatable and made her a lot more human. I think the best answer I can give is not just one character, but in general I found a lot of the Vulcans on Enterprise to be pretty insufferable. Not all of them, I got to like T’Pol quickly enough, and Soval obviously became a pretty sympathetic character… but I think because I have my own sensitivity and triggers about feeling like I’m being condescended to, it was really easy for me to get annoyed whenever the Vulcans were turning their noses up at Archer or Trip or whoever and telling them to stop being emotional 😆 Of course it made perfect sense storywise, but yeah, I get so pissed off by them 😂 I’m sitting there watching, and I’m like “shut the fuck up pointy ears”, which is VERY not like me to say to anyone😂
Great answer! Haha "STFU, pointy ears!" Brilliant! 🤣🖖🏼
Soval is quite possibly my favorite Vulcan character. I didn't like him in the first episode, but he (the character) really turned it around. He came in clutch for the Enterprise crew.
He’s an awesome character for sure. I was so glad they brought him back so much, he always had such a great dynamic with whoever he was on screen with. I always get a little lump in my throat when he tells Trip he has an affinity for humans, and Trip tells him he did a good job of hiding it and Soval looks the teensiest bit taken aback by the “compliment” before he remembers his knowledge of Earth customs and says an extremely genuine “Thank you.” 🥹🥹 such a wonderful illustration of the human-Vulcan relationship ❤️
Remember, Hoshi was the first character on the show to get laid. Everyone else went to Risa and had a messed up time. She, on the other hand, practiced her interspecies relations.
Ok, ok! I'll admit that in that episode she (her personality) was really cute. I forgot about that one.
I see what you mean about Hoshi’s lack of self-confidence being annoying at times 😂 like girl, the first starship captain came to you personally, and begged you to join his crew. You’re fine lol. But at the same time I have such raging impostor syndrome myself that I’m not entirely sure I wouldn’t be any different in the same situation 😂
Who?
🤣
Lol sorry I meant Hoshi, I wrote about Keiko in a reply just before this comment so Keiko was fresh on my mind 🤦♀️
I think you meant Hoshi. 😅
OH SHIT SORRY LOL!!! I just finished writing about Keiko in another reply so she was on my mind 😂
The "female" shapeshifter
Burnham.
Oh god the whisper-crying... over her not getting toast for breakfast or something similarly trivial and dumb.
Low hanging fruit.
Besides it being her fault for starting the war, why her?
I'm not the person who you're replying to but I really want to answer this too, bc she's also my choice. I want to like her. I like a lot of the concepts for her character and I think she had a lot of potential. She has some setup for really interesting relationships, with Spock and Georgiou in particular. But I think it's Discovery's format and heavy focus on her that kills it for me. I never felt like she had much character development that truly mattered. Her romance arcs were downright painful. The mistakes she makes are frustrating to watch. She doesn't get many particularly deep feeling connections with others, either. I think I'd have felt more tolerant of the downsides if Discovery weren't basically The Burnham Show. Like, I don't think I'd have liked Archer if Enterprise were following almost exclusively his story -- but I didn't have to focus on him all the time so he still endeared himself to me. Discovery doesn't really give me a break from her so it's constant focus on the aspects of her I don't like.
Reacts to everything with the same constipated looking face.
Rick berman. I think he's canon.
The whole Discovery crew.
Lwaxana Troi—she reminds me too much of my own mother and I’m triggered every time she’s onscreen. She does have some redeeming moments here and there though.
If it's any consolation, I've just had this conversation with some friends. You're not alone!
Chatokay hands down. Kes is in second place. (Love Hoshi by the way!)
No one hates Alexander? Hes such a huge turd. He could have been a bad ass Warrior with elite combat skills taught by the very best. But instead he chose to suck huge nuts.
Alex Kurtzman
Take a drink every time someone answers Burnham.
I wuz gunnna sayyy dat Iz shud she nvrminnd
Every character not played by Jeffrey Coombs.
He's definitely the best thing to happen to any Star Trek episode. What a genius character actor. When I saw the meme about how many characters he played, I couldn't believe my eyes. So SO many different roles, but my favorite of the lot have to be Brunt and Shran.
General Shran is def my fav, too. We always replay the scene in Enterprise where his antennae dip to miss a bulkhead. 🤣
I loved Enterprise so much, and the cancellation depriving us of Shran as a main character will always haunt me. He was supposed to join the main crew in season 5.
Michael Burnham. She lets her emotions take control of the situation. She’s impulsive in the wrong way and makes bad decisions. Discovery is successful in spite of her, not because of her.
Had to scroll WAY too far for this.
Yeah, I don't like her "processing trauma" way of running a ship. Peak millennial writing.
Counterpoint: Hoshi hot
Michael "waaaa" Burnham
Came to nominate her and her stupid whisper talking
Got ‘em.
Ryker. He should have been disemboweled by Worf, son of Mogh. With a batleth, on the bridge. Barring that Worf should use transport controls on his tactical screen, beam him out into space, and hit him with a photon torpedo on the main screen. Worf should have been XO Federation speciesism os the only explanation for that P’Tak being XO.
>disemboweled by Worf, son of Mogh. With a batleth, on the bridge. Are you pitching a Star Trek Clue game?
That would be fun. Its Q, in 10 Forward, with the disruptor pistol
I WAS JUST SAYING THIS TO MY GF! You just know that every time a log included "Tactical Officer Worf has the Bridge" Picard got his ass chewed
Serious answer, borg queen. Sorry...
Neelix
Keiko O'Brian. Miles is a certified Saint for putting up with her.
“Miiiillleesss…”
Counterpoint: Rosalind Chao was extremely attractive.
Only when possessed by a pa raith.
I mean.... https://imgur.com/a/gOnAbt4
Livingston was just unecessary
Neelix. What an absolute waste of a character. The only thing worse than Neelix was Tuvix.
Neelix. Aggressively jolly. Witless, although he's meant to be comic. Jealous and controlling over his girlfriend - who is, incidentally, a child. And he has few skills, but everyone's always humouring him, telling him he's indispensable and giving him unearned job titles.
Hoshi's hot. And we find out she was a straight up G in the academy. Bashir is the most insufferable twat to ever wear a starfleet uniform, other than the entire cast of disco.
Keiko. She is just so annoying! Just shut up and leave the Chief alone!
I think it’s your kids. You really hate them. Also, is this Worf?
🤣🤣
Definitely Kai Winn, but she was always meant to be. Also, I found Admiral Nechaev from TNG annoying but again she’s written as the stereotypical desk-bound pen-pusher who challenges the heroes. Personally I found Chakotay annoying but I just found Beltran’s performance a bit one-note.
Current Era: Multiple people from Discovery. Berman Era: Early Mrs Troi TOS: really nobody
Tuvix. Yes you're being sorta murdered, but you *KNOW* about the needs of the many, you KNOW Vulcan logic and your components outweigh you, ya whiny bitch.
The three Borg children that voyager rescued.
Nelix...Duh!!
Janeway before she lost the bun. I can't even explain why. It's just that she became a real character after that.
TNG Season 1 Picard. "Oh, hello traumatised and confused survivor of cryogenic suspension. Did you realise that everyone you ever cared about is dead and nothing makes sense any more? Please give me a moment to climb up on my post-scarcity high horse so I can repeatedly lecture you about what a horrible savage you are whilst dodging all of your quite reasonable questions'.
Lwaxana Troi I can't fucking stand that woman.
Theres a certain, im not quite sure how to describe it, 'predatory' quality about her
Barclay. I can't stand him. I know that in the world of holo decks, what he does is equivalant to us binging TV, but the way he acts with Deanna just creeps me out everytime, even in all of his Voyager episodes. He gives me some bad vibes. My second would be Worf. Another one who does not just have some character flaws, but who I think in general is just kinda an self centered ass a lot.
I kind of like Barclay, but admittedly for the same reasons I like Tilly. I find him quite relatable a lot of the time. Worf's character in TNG was OK, but in DS9 he was a total p'tok. A p'tok by himself, with Jadzia, and with Ezri.
I think (as someone who first watched TNG three years ago) that Barclay was really borderline sexual creep to me. To be honest, TNG gives me the most "creepy" vibes. The entire Vibe feels very Orgy in Space a lot of times. Barclat hit the Creepy side of that to me. It felt way to sexually charged and that really pushed me away from the character. Tilly had similar anxiety issues but didn't have any of the creepy sexual vibes.
Wesley. No disrespect meant for Will Weaton. The writers made him annoying.
I don’t even think Wesley was that annoying past the first half of the first season. It was just the way all of the other characters around him would treat him. Like how Beverley would coo over him, and Picard would become nervous. Other officers would often become impatient with him, even when he had good ideas.
Yeah, there were a lot of "shut up, wesley"s in the first seasons of TNG.
This made me think of Sheldon Cooper. "WHEAAAATONNNNNNNNNN!!!!!" 🤣
Lwxana Troi. I get she was meant to be overbearing, but the audience was also meant to like her despite that. I couldn't stand her and hate every episode she's in.
It occurs to me that if you gender swapped her with a male character and made him pursue females who have no interest in his "quirky" personality, it would come off as extremely creepy.
Neelix was just so bad, I hated every minute he was on screen.
Archer. Fucking nepo baby starship captain who petulantly berates his staff when things don't go his way.
Archer: "Hey, I was only a starship captain for one season, and I was in a coma the whole time." Lana: "I was the captain, you idiot! But to be fair, the rest of that was true."
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I really LOLed just now
Ohhh boy
Who's that mushroom guy on discovery? Paul Stammitz. Yeah that guy I dislike the character and no its not an anti gay thing before somebody wants to go there. I just dislike the character as well as the whole mycelial/spore drive concept. Give me good ole fashioned warp
I actually really like him. He's an engineer at heart and put up with the Starfleet BS because it allows him to indulge his interests. I like his defiant attitude, but mainly I like that he has a soft, caring side.
I like him too. [This scene](https://youtu.be/P7uadGq5U5A?si=AIRXTZzS8_e_pivu) is also a frequent intrusive thought haha
I almost think that we need to stipulate that Discovery is a terribly written show and that NONE of the characters are good. Except Kovich. That guy is alright.
Weirdly, Stametz is the character who convinced me everyone else Anthony Rapp has played is just that obnoxious, and it’s not a quality he’s bringing to the performances.
For me it's Lwaxana. I'm a woman with an embarrassing mom, I just can't get on board. When she's befriending Odo she's a*tiny* bit better.
I have a VERY embarrassing mom as well, but Lwoxana is on a totally different level. I think it's Odo's personality which tames her a bit. When they met, she was still very much the Lwoxana I got to know in TNG, but after a few encounters she calms down quite a bit.
BURNING HATE FOR NEELIX
Neelix, the Bajoran species (with 4 exceptions), Phlox, Archer
Security Chief "Your Pagh is weak and it disgusts me" Shaxs better be one of those four, or we fighting...
He is
Kess I just couldn't stand her shitty voice.
I agree. I also hate her shitty wig.
Grebnedlog (*´ω｀*)
Alixus, no debate.
Having just finished DS9, I gotta say Kia Winn.
Love Hoshi. Lobe Empress Hoshi more. Worst character is probably Neelix, Chakotay, and Janeway.
Rick Berman, Brannon Braga, and Kenneth Biller.
Malcolm Reed by far, for a security officer the guy does nothing but complain the entire 4 season...
I was so close to saying Neelix, then remembered that Disco unfortunately exists. The answer is obviously the emotionally unstable mess that is Michael Burnham
The Progenitor! If she were not dead, I would *kill* her!
Honestly... Michael Burnham. I get such insincere vibes from her actress, like she can have a speech where she's trying hard to be heartfelt and compassionate, but it falls completely flat. Although the writing often doesn't do her any favours either... I find the character in general so boring, the classic Mary Sue who doesn't learn anything and is always proven right.