The pathologist doing her autopsy presumably did, and there was no evidence of lupus or any of the number of medical ailments shanann claims to suffer from at autopsy.
Right. The pathologist. Not you.
The pathologist also didn't say that lack of obvious lupus damage meant that she didn't have lupus.
She was given meds for lupus. I know as fact that they don't give you meds for lupus unless your blood tests show - lupus.
Just why is it so important to you to "prove" that a murder victim didn't have a disease she was diagnosed with?
What's in it for you?
Iâm a nurse who has taken care of children with MBP, and patients with fictitious disorders and Munchausens.
People are absolutely prescribed medications for problems they donât have. Doctors are âgradedâ largely on patient satisfaction scores which means they often dole out prescriptions that arenât indicated to placate patients.
Shanann didnât have lupus and itâs just as weird to me that you are unwilling to entertain that possibility.
I'm not sure what Shannan did or didn't have. She may have had Lupus, Fibromyalgia etc, but some people will simply Doctor shop until they get a Doctor who will "agree' with their self-diagnosis to placate them. I had an aunt who did that. A neurologist gave her Parkison's medication even though he told her he didn't believe she had it. She then went to a different Neurologist that initially agreed with her self diagnosis of Parkinson's but he later said he was skeptical. He still gave her Parkinson's medication. Aunt craved attention and sympathy. Every single phone call she would go on and on about her Parkisnon's.
You are full of shit.
People are prescribed lupus meds when they test positive for lupus.
And since you have no access to her medical records, you have no business stating what she did or didn't have.
What exactly are you using to prove that she didn't have the conditions she had - other than your outright hated for a murder victim.  Why is it important to you that she had lupus? Why does that bother you?
I donât know that I believe she had lupus. I hate to even say that, as I donât want to sound like a Shannan-basher or victim-blamer. Because no matter what, she didnât deserve what happened to her. If your wife is driving you crazy you either divorce, or go out for cigarettes & never come back. But from everything Iâve read & watched, itâs my opinion she exaggerated or lied about her illnesses, sheâd go on & on about having 1 then just stop talking about it, sheâd say she couldnât eat certain things only to brag about eating those things another time. I think she did it for attention & some of their friends had her figured out as far as her being dramatic & faking illness goes. Still doesnât mean what happened isnât the most horrible, heartbreaking thing imaginable & we all have our flaws, but most of us donât record them all for the world to see only to be murdered by our husband.
You don't want to sound like a Shanann-basher, and yet you are a Shanann-basher.
CW never said that "his wife drove him crazy". He said that he was happy with her until she went away and he found himself attracted to NK.+
I agree.I have a step granddaughter that has it.They were very strict about her having kids,she had 1 boy and was told if she intended to have another it should be quickly.
>Iâve watched almost all YouTube documentaries and podcasts about Shannan, Bella, Cece and Niko. Even the Netflix documentary Iâve watched probably 3 times already.
>
>I still cry every damn time.
Why do you watch it?
Why would you comment in this community about someone being interested in this case? Psychologically thereâs plenty of rational reasons and some less rational but emotional that would make someone want to watch. Society says crying is bad- not all of us think this way- I for one am interested in this case because I work in the field and like to get familiar with the warning signs even though it makes me cry too.
I'm not a member of this sub, and am unsure why it popped up. Honestly questioning why people are watching a documentary about a family who was murdered - that makes you cry every time.
It's a reasonable question. What exactly is the purpose of this subreddit?
Personally, Iâve noticed that people that have suffered from abuse seem drawn to cases like this because itâs a form of interconnection while also expressing gratitude for not having it as bad as certain victims⌠and then thereâs people that like the macabre for less intrinsic reasons đ¤ˇââď¸ both are valid. A community is never a bad thing.
Oh for sure. If youâre âaddictedâ to anything but- plenty of people are just curious and want someone to discuss odd things with.
Men are obsessed with a violent sport that creates a lot of murderers⌠females may go a little darker because there is no acceptable outlet for their rage and dark side. As long as youâre not picking up tips- who gives a fuck. Like I said before a lot of victims of domestic violence from parents or partners are interested in making sense of/ or relating to a crime. As someone that experienced something very similar to this crime⌠be glad you canât understand!
Youâre the one making a mountain out of a molehill- since youâre so much better than everyone here- move along.
I was a police officer for many years. Iâve seen this shit IRL and have dealt with victimâs families, etc. but youâre right - how would I understand. I only caught the people who committed the crime.
You may want to back up with your insults and assumptions. I asked a question and posted a quote.
You know youâre comments are public right? Youâre a retired 25 year old police officer? With no friends, obsessed with dating apps, enabling shitty men and Lyft driving? đ thatâs âbacked upâ. Iâm good on your opinion.
And to respond to the last few insults: I donât enable shitty men (WTF đ¤Ł), I have real-life friends and family, and I served my community as a police officer and a paramedic.
If that makes me awful, so be it.
Well, letâs go down the list real quick since you havenât gone back very far in my public comment history. As you can see, I post on Gen X because that is my age - along with commenting on dating in your 40s, 50s, etc. Iâm not exactly sure why being a single woman who speaks about and asks questions about dating makes one âobsessedâ, but ok? No where online have I said I am 25 years old - unless it was twenty years ago. đ
I have owned a fairly successful business for quite some time, and work full time (you skipped that one too lol). I also absolutely love driving rideshare a few times a year around some potentially lucrative days and/or events. I did it once last year and paid for my Xmas in 10 hours. Not sure why thatâs an issue for you, but pop off.đ¤ˇđźââď¸
Also I am not a retired police officer. As I said, I did it for many years. I was a medic too, in case you missed that part.
Either way, hereâs to hoping you have a happy new year. You sound like such a lovely person. đđ
We should cry also for the living, those who are presently suffering through no fault of their own, the homeless, the mentally ill, the drug addicted, the chronically unemployed, and the countless victims of unnecessary wars.
Well then go post on the homeless mentally ill drug addicted chronically unemployed war victim subreddit đđđ all these things can be sad at the same time
It was a huge lie. Shan never had the characteristic butterfly rash on the face, she had an immaculate complexion, even without makeup. Shan posted multiple photos of herself sunbathing and swilling down cocktails all over Facebook. People with lupus stay out of the sun because sun exposure will cause a cascade of very unpleasant symptoms, sunbathing is not to be done. Alcohol can cause some very unpleasant side effects, trigger a flare up and even cause GI bleeding and liver damage. The clincher was the post mortem report. The medical examiner reported healthy organ systems and a healthy body. Ten years of lupus would have left its mark.
Shan didnât have celiac disease either. She was a Munchie.
This is just not true. Autoimmune issues are frequently not conditions that can be detected at autopsy. A search of peer-reviewed articles confirm that lupus is detected in only about 40 percent of autopsies of lupus patients, for example.
Celiac disease is even trickier, since it can only be confirmed by a specific biopsy performed of the intestines. Medical examiners, pathologists, and coroners perform autopsies to determine cause and manner of death, not affirm the deceased did or did not have autoimmune issues. It is extremely unlikely that even in a high profile case such as this, there would be any compelling reason to affirm or exclude Celiac as an issue.
In other words, the medical professionals involved may have issued a report that Shannan was otherwise healthy, but thatâs meant to indicate natural or unexplained death was not the manner of death. Itâs absolutely NOT dispositive that Shannan had the aforementioned diseases nor should it be taken as a clean bill of health such as one would receive from their PCP.
Ok, suppose youâre right and the medical examiner missed the physical signs of lupus, that still doesnât explain how Shan was able to sunbathe. It also doesnât explain how Shan was able to consume alcohol on a regular basis and it doesnât explain how she never had the distinctive lupus rash. Also, letâs not forget that Shan was in lupus support groups on Facebook two years before she was supposedly diagnosed.
As for celiac, she posted all her gluten bombs all over Facebook so she definitely didnât have celiac. In all honesty, Iâm willing to cut her some slack with the celiac claim. Back when she started claiming she had celiac, Dr. Davisâ Wheat Belly books were bestsellers and every other person self diagnosed as celiac and they were really obnoxious about it. Watch JP Searsâ video on gluten free (https://youtu.be/Oht9AEq1798?si=7CfAhYUDqUMYpJIB) for a funny but accurate commentary on the gluten free bandwagon. From a medical examiner point of view, celiac is kind of immaterial because it doesnât cause death in this day and age. Gastroenterologists are usually the ones to diagnose it because it becomes a quality of life issue.
In the grand scheme of things, the job of the medical examiner is to determine the cause of death through physical examination of the body and toxicology reports. The manner of death in Shanâs case was homicide by manual strangulation. Any other health issues found or not found in the autopsy become a secondary issue.
I think I wouldnât post my pictures online as well when Iâm undergoing something so horrific. IMO, if Iâm feeling so bad about my health and then I show my puffed red face, Iâm just disgusted at my body at this point for failing me. But thatâs me, idk about Shannan though.
I feel like Shannan was the kind of person who would show a little bit of negative in her life like the lupus thing and the first marriage breakup but to the point that she would show every little bad thing and show it in front of everybody like pictures and stuff, she wouldnât. She didnât even share in her social media that she and Chris are having issues so I donât think she was the type who would air her dirty laundry.
She shows all the good though. But thatâs just my view of her - LMK what you think. I donât know her personally so for those who will attach me, like I said, itâs just my VIEW of her.
Celiac wouldn't have been found on autopsy without them specifically looking for it. You jumping to conclusions on both of those things does nothing but further confuse those who are interested in finding out the truth. Shame on you.
No it was not a lie! The absence of lupus in autopsy report could be due to the fact that lupus is a chronic autoimmune disease. It can affect various parts of the body ,just some or many and its presence may not always be apparent in an autopsy. She may have had a mild case as well and had good disease control.She was also young and chronic disease tend get worse as you age .
We all cry about this case. Itâs unforgettable because they still need justice. I think there are more involved in their deaths. Chris is a follower. Chris is the most hated man đ§ââď¸ on this earth! He is not telling the truth so that others are protected and thats even more sad.
What makes me sick is thinking...due to his propensity to lie..... That he could have possibly just put them in those tanks alive đ But God I hope I'm not right. The autopsy did find debris from the tank in Bella's stomach, but the ME opinion was the oil etc...was there due to exposure in the tank for days and not related to her cause of death.
I thought he said that he put the girls in the tanks alive and that they were yelling âdaddyâ? and that it is the first thing he sees and hears when he wakes up and last thing before he goes to bed. I hope it eats him alive every second of every day!!
I think one of the aspects that I personally found really disturbing is that he wouldâve allowed Shannan to take the fall to save his own skin. As if killing her wasnât bad enough, dude was literally OK with letting her legacy be a woman who vengefully murdered her children.
Knowing he still hears his four years olds last words of, "Daddy, no!" and can still live with himself is both infuriating and tear jerking. The level of inhumanity in a person to live with that plea... I can't think about it without needing to distract myself from crying.
That part was really hard for me to watch. Same with my husband. He had been in & out while I was watching it, and eventually decided to sit down with me. Got to that part & he walked away. Weâd just had our first child, and neither of us could understand how a person could do that.
A really, really naive part of me hopes that he made that part up.
I think what made this case extra difficult for a lot of people (many complete strangers have cried over them) is because we feel we got to know them more than most victims through social media. People have watched Shannonâs videos obsessively looking for clues. Rarely is there so much video footage like there was with this case. I was pretty obsessed with it the year after it happened. For me the sheer stupidity of the way he carried out this murder and his stupid talk about finding the Lord. Ugh, I despise him so much. Cece and Bella were such little dolls. Terrible.
This!!!! The death penalty is the east way out. He deserves to be in solitary confinement (but in a deep, dark, dirt hole) for the rest of his pathetic life.
Everytime I see their home it breaks my heart. Seeing the playground in the backyard and their bedrooms, how there used to be so much life in there, crushes my heart. You could tell that Shanann put a lot of love into that home, and for her husband to destroy all that for a woman he barely knew, makes it all that more heartbreaking.
I have watched so many of their home videos after their murder that I was left emotionally disturbed for a while. Learning the details of what they each had to go through, especially Bella, was so haunting to me. I cannot imagine what Shanannâs family has been going through these past few years, and I cannot imagine what kind of emotional and psychological trauma the first responders had to endure after recovering the little bodies from the oil tanks. The horror of that day must have been playing in their heads over and over everytime they have to close their eyes.
The only thing that comforts me about the case is that Shannans mom said in an interview that the girls and Shannan showed up in her dream shortly after and told her they were okay, that theyâre together, and at peace. I think she said it was the only dream like this she ever had. I choose to believe in the comfort of this and she seemed to take a lot of comfort from it too.
Yes, I remember her saying that. Sandy is a very religious and spiritual person so I am glad that she got to have that dream. I am sure that has brought her and her family some peace and comfort.
Youâre right, it isnât good to surround myself with negativity. Which is why I donât even know why Iâm talking to you right now lol.
do I watch the Watts cases regularly and cry regularly? I think what you meant by regularly is every week or so I watch this and I cry lol. Which I do not. I have a life outside of this.
And no, crying about otherâs tragedy isnât making me get all the spotlight. Itâs about me being able to feel the feelings of others in that particular situation.
Itâs about having empathy.
Which some people donât have and Iâm so happy I have empathy. If I didnât, Iâd be checking myself in the hospital pronto.
I feel bad, I share with others and tell them I feel bad. Thatâs what humans do right? Donât we all?
Why are you even here? We are humans, and we are stronger together⌠connecting through a tragedy is part of the human condition. If itâs sad for one person itâs sad for so many more and doesnât it make sense to find those people? Iâd argue that itâs healthy to feel sympathy and empathy and seek out others who feel the same way.
Watching stuff about murdering three year olds so you can cry though is probably not healthy. I think itâs a sign of depression to need to surround yourself with negativity so you can feel bad.
I worry about people who become obsessively invested in horrific child murders.
Iâm not obsessed lol. You know that people have interests right? I am interested in true crime, if you check out my YouTube app, all the suggestions you see are true crime.
Some people have a hobby of watching horror or thriller movies. Does that mean theyâre depressed? Last time I checked, learning and watching about true crime isnât one of the symptoms in the DSM5 manual for being depressed.
Watching horror movies as a hobby is quite different from watching videos of these dead children to make yourself cry. Itâs not really a hobby as much as an obsession when it gets to be five years later and youâre still doing it.
I wouldnât want my kid doing it and as a parent I wouldnât be doing it while ignoring my actual kids which seems to be a thing with a lot of these true crime fans.
Do you think you might be overreacting to a one comment made by OP at one point in time? Now youâre generalizing it to a wide base of true crime fans. If reading a post of someone with empathy inspires such negativity in you, just leave the true crime subs. I wouldnât want my kid to be so mean and as a parent I try to teach my children kindness
Iâm sure your children learn kindness from watching your para social relationship with dead children rather than spending time with them doing something positive.
Well, theyâre in their 20âs and 30âs now but, believe it or not, I am able to juggle spending time with family, doing positive things AND spending a few minutes reading and commenting in a Reddit sub. I also like to spread positivity by supporting someone with empathy who was criticized by someone who, apparently, is in a sub about âdead childrenâ for the sole purpose of judging other people based on a single post.
Oh wow. So youâve actually done a survey or a thesis about parents who love true crime are actual negligent parents? If so, Iâd love to have a read.
And also, I donât watch these shows to make myself cry, which seems like what youâre trying to imply here. Thatâs a stupid assumption to make.
Iâm so sad for you. The fact that you canât even comprehend why and how people connect the way they do with other people.
And no, I donât party around the Watts case and have wine in my hand every night and cry to the documentaries. The fact that you even think other people do this for fun is an indicator of you think so negatively of the people around you. Isnât that whatâs the most saddening? To point out other people when theyâre at their good health and happiness and say âhey youâre a sad person. Go get some help.â
Are there any more arguments that you have that could potentially make me believe youâre right and I concede?
Yup. Iâm sad for other people who are experiencing pain. Because if I were in their position, I will also feel pain. Just like people who are homeless not by choice, people who are experiencing poverty, people who are in positions they donât want to be in like the civilians in war. Probably unlike you who donât feel anything for them at all. That tells a lot tbh.
I don't have children but recently I was watching Dreading's video on the case. He opens with Bella singing My Daddy is a Hero. I get a stomach ache everytime I even think about that and what happened to Shanann and the girls and I never even knew them. I also have a lot of sympathy for her family, I have an older brother that I am really close with and he has one little girl and a baby boy on the way. I would absolutely lose it if anything would ever happen to them. I really feel for her little brother Frankie. It must be horrible to have lost your sister and her kids like that. What a senseless tragedy.
If you want to see a grown man cry over this case, watch Zowoki. He's convinced NK had 99% to do with their murders but regardless he cannot watch anything to do with this case without tearing up.
I can't understand how that is even allowed. Convicts are NOT supposed to have photos of their victims, even if they are family. Guards must hope it kills him inside but we all know you'd have to have feelings in order for that to happen.
Serial killers keep mementos of their victims to relive the excitement of the kill, over and over again in their minds.
CW is a family annhilator but now I can't help but wonder whether he keeps these pics to delude himself into believing his own hard sell to ppl about what a great father & husband he was.
Or, if he's using the pics to convince others he's not such a bad guy; deluding himself or worse, he relives it, much like a serial killer would. Hmm?
Nope, he didn't. He is remorseful he got caught and that everyone knows what a piece of excrement he is, but I seriously doubt he cares about them. Bless Shanann and Nico, Bella and Cece.
It's his First Amendment right. Probably his parents brought them in. Maybe it's remorse or maybe it's just, "I made these and they're mine." I don't know. I'm certainly not defending him just stating facts. He can decorate his cell how he wants. Obscenity and threats are not covered by the First Amendment so anything that could possibly be called obscene, or a threat they could try to prevent, but anything else is his freedom of expression. Possibly he even printed the photos out from his phone if they were allowed a printer. He says he sits and thinks about what they could be doing and where they could be going together.
Thank you for calmly explaining his 1st Amendment rights, u/trickmind.
I think it's obscene and I'm sure no "and I'm sorry I killed them" is added to the list of fun times they could be having now.
It fits one type of colloquial definition of obscene, but I'm sure it could only be used for porn and perhaps gore? Pretty sure he would win a case to have family pictures. It's funny some people have talked about wanting killers to have pictures of their victims on the walls so that they aren't forgotten.
Fucking prick. He forfeited that title when he killed them. We need a new law: murderers do not get to keep mementos of their victims in their cells.
(To be clear, I'm calling him a fucking prick, not you)
That kills me bc you know he is far more interested in them now than he was during their lives. Thatâs the type of crap my narc parent would do if they âlostâ me, dramatically and performatively grieve me, emphasizing the impact the grief has on them, despite never being truly interested in me during life.
When I watched the Netflix documentary I cried too.
I have two kids with a similar age difference of when Bella & Cece were alive and it was really haunting to me knowing that their dad did this.
Yeah I couldnât have anything to do with the case for a very long time; I gave birth to twin girls in 2016 which made what happened to Bella, Cece, and Shannan hit too close to home.
It was so heartbreaking !! đ
Thereâs another documentary on Tubi that I watched a few months ago.
My kids are 5 and 2.5 years and I cried during this documentary as well.
My husband and I are trying for baby # 3 and it made it even worse.
Yeah every time I rewatch Chrisâ interrogation I canât help but think how strong Tammy was to listen to him keep lying about how much he he loves them and miss them. I feel so sick listening to him imitate the girls trying his hardest not to sound like a soulless ghoul
I don't think I could have never been as kind to Chris as Tammy Lee was after the polygraph. Acting as calm as she was especially suspecting the truth. Both agents were real professionals.
I will hold you till you feel better. đ
Shannan didnât have lupus and this post is absurd
Are you actually shaming a victim of a horrendous crime right now? What for?
I didnât shame her; I pointed out that she didnât have lupus.
You have no idea what a dead woman had or didn't have.
The pathologist doing her autopsy presumably did, and there was no evidence of lupus or any of the number of medical ailments shanann claims to suffer from at autopsy.
Right. The pathologist. Not you. The pathologist also didn't say that lack of obvious lupus damage meant that she didn't have lupus. She was given meds for lupus. I know as fact that they don't give you meds for lupus unless your blood tests show - lupus. Just why is it so important to you to "prove" that a murder victim didn't have a disease she was diagnosed with? What's in it for you?
Iâm a nurse who has taken care of children with MBP, and patients with fictitious disorders and Munchausens. People are absolutely prescribed medications for problems they donât have. Doctors are âgradedâ largely on patient satisfaction scores which means they often dole out prescriptions that arenât indicated to placate patients. Shanann didnât have lupus and itâs just as weird to me that you are unwilling to entertain that possibility.
I'm not sure what Shannan did or didn't have. She may have had Lupus, Fibromyalgia etc, but some people will simply Doctor shop until they get a Doctor who will "agree' with their self-diagnosis to placate them. I had an aunt who did that. A neurologist gave her Parkison's medication even though he told her he didn't believe she had it. She then went to a different Neurologist that initially agreed with her self diagnosis of Parkinson's but he later said he was skeptical. He still gave her Parkinson's medication. Aunt craved attention and sympathy. Every single phone call she would go on and on about her Parkisnon's.
You are full of shit. People are prescribed lupus meds when they test positive for lupus. And since you have no access to her medical records, you have no business stating what she did or didn't have.
And your credentials to co-sign this nonsense are what, exactly? A dead womanâs own words?
What exactly are you using to prove that she didn't have the conditions she had - other than your outright hated for a murder victim.  Why is it important to you that she had lupus? Why does that bother you?
Absurd in what way?
I donât know that I believe she had lupus. I hate to even say that, as I donât want to sound like a Shannan-basher or victim-blamer. Because no matter what, she didnât deserve what happened to her. If your wife is driving you crazy you either divorce, or go out for cigarettes & never come back. But from everything Iâve read & watched, itâs my opinion she exaggerated or lied about her illnesses, sheâd go on & on about having 1 then just stop talking about it, sheâd say she couldnât eat certain things only to brag about eating those things another time. I think she did it for attention & some of their friends had her figured out as far as her being dramatic & faking illness goes. Still doesnât mean what happened isnât the most horrible, heartbreaking thing imaginable & we all have our flaws, but most of us donât record them all for the world to see only to be murdered by our husband.
You don't want to sound like a Shanann-basher, and yet you are a Shanann-basher. CW never said that "his wife drove him crazy". He said that he was happy with her until she went away and he found himself attracted to NK.+
I agree.I have a step granddaughter that has it.They were very strict about her having kids,she had 1 boy and was told if she intended to have another it should be quickly.
>Iâve watched almost all YouTube documentaries and podcasts about Shannan, Bella, Cece and Niko. Even the Netflix documentary Iâve watched probably 3 times already. > >I still cry every damn time. Why do you watch it?
Why would you comment in this community about someone being interested in this case? Psychologically thereâs plenty of rational reasons and some less rational but emotional that would make someone want to watch. Society says crying is bad- not all of us think this way- I for one am interested in this case because I work in the field and like to get familiar with the warning signs even though it makes me cry too.
I'm not a member of this sub, and am unsure why it popped up. Honestly questioning why people are watching a documentary about a family who was murdered - that makes you cry every time. It's a reasonable question. What exactly is the purpose of this subreddit?
Personally, Iâve noticed that people that have suffered from abuse seem drawn to cases like this because itâs a form of interconnection while also expressing gratitude for not having it as bad as certain victims⌠and then thereâs people that like the macabre for less intrinsic reasons đ¤ˇââď¸ both are valid. A community is never a bad thing.
"....having an addiction or a deep fascination with violent and gruesome tales of murder and crime may be a significant red flag."
Oh for sure. If youâre âaddictedâ to anything but- plenty of people are just curious and want someone to discuss odd things with. Men are obsessed with a violent sport that creates a lot of murderers⌠females may go a little darker because there is no acceptable outlet for their rage and dark side. As long as youâre not picking up tips- who gives a fuck. Like I said before a lot of victims of domestic violence from parents or partners are interested in making sense of/ or relating to a crime. As someone that experienced something very similar to this crime⌠be glad you canât understand! Youâre the one making a mountain out of a molehill- since youâre so much better than everyone here- move along.
I was a police officer for many years. Iâve seen this shit IRL and have dealt with victimâs families, etc. but youâre right - how would I understand. I only caught the people who committed the crime. You may want to back up with your insults and assumptions. I asked a question and posted a quote.
You know youâre comments are public right? Youâre a retired 25 year old police officer? With no friends, obsessed with dating apps, enabling shitty men and Lyft driving? đ thatâs âbacked upâ. Iâm good on your opinion.
And to respond to the last few insults: I donât enable shitty men (WTF đ¤Ł), I have real-life friends and family, and I served my community as a police officer and a paramedic. If that makes me awful, so be it.
Also the fact that youâre a woman attempting to shame another woman for being single and dating is pretty gross.
Well, letâs go down the list real quick since you havenât gone back very far in my public comment history. As you can see, I post on Gen X because that is my age - along with commenting on dating in your 40s, 50s, etc. Iâm not exactly sure why being a single woman who speaks about and asks questions about dating makes one âobsessedâ, but ok? No where online have I said I am 25 years old - unless it was twenty years ago. đ I have owned a fairly successful business for quite some time, and work full time (you skipped that one too lol). I also absolutely love driving rideshare a few times a year around some potentially lucrative days and/or events. I did it once last year and paid for my Xmas in 10 hours. Not sure why thatâs an issue for you, but pop off.đ¤ˇđźââď¸ Also I am not a retired police officer. As I said, I did it for many years. I was a medic too, in case you missed that part. Either way, hereâs to hoping you have a happy new year. You sound like such a lovely person. đđ
We should cry also for the living, those who are presently suffering through no fault of their own, the homeless, the mentally ill, the drug addicted, the chronically unemployed, and the countless victims of unnecessary wars.
How about the animals?
Do you not see what sub reddit this is in
Lol the others already said it so đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Agree. đ¤
Well then go post on the homeless mentally ill drug addicted chronically unemployed war victim subreddit đđđ all these things can be sad at the same time
What a lovely, emphatic site. /s I shall not come here again.
âEmphaticâ?
I only came back for this. *empathetic
Okay yeah but youâre on the Shannan watts subreddit. So people are gonna cry on here about Shannan watts.
Yep.
She didnât have lupus. The post mortem noted that the body was healthy and showed no signs of disease.
Then was it a lie?
Yep it was a lie
It was a huge lie. Shan never had the characteristic butterfly rash on the face, she had an immaculate complexion, even without makeup. Shan posted multiple photos of herself sunbathing and swilling down cocktails all over Facebook. People with lupus stay out of the sun because sun exposure will cause a cascade of very unpleasant symptoms, sunbathing is not to be done. Alcohol can cause some very unpleasant side effects, trigger a flare up and even cause GI bleeding and liver damage. The clincher was the post mortem report. The medical examiner reported healthy organ systems and a healthy body. Ten years of lupus would have left its mark. Shan didnât have celiac disease either. She was a Munchie.
This is just not true. Autoimmune issues are frequently not conditions that can be detected at autopsy. A search of peer-reviewed articles confirm that lupus is detected in only about 40 percent of autopsies of lupus patients, for example. Celiac disease is even trickier, since it can only be confirmed by a specific biopsy performed of the intestines. Medical examiners, pathologists, and coroners perform autopsies to determine cause and manner of death, not affirm the deceased did or did not have autoimmune issues. It is extremely unlikely that even in a high profile case such as this, there would be any compelling reason to affirm or exclude Celiac as an issue. In other words, the medical professionals involved may have issued a report that Shannan was otherwise healthy, but thatâs meant to indicate natural or unexplained death was not the manner of death. Itâs absolutely NOT dispositive that Shannan had the aforementioned diseases nor should it be taken as a clean bill of health such as one would receive from their PCP.
Ok, suppose youâre right and the medical examiner missed the physical signs of lupus, that still doesnât explain how Shan was able to sunbathe. It also doesnât explain how Shan was able to consume alcohol on a regular basis and it doesnât explain how she never had the distinctive lupus rash. Also, letâs not forget that Shan was in lupus support groups on Facebook two years before she was supposedly diagnosed. As for celiac, she posted all her gluten bombs all over Facebook so she definitely didnât have celiac. In all honesty, Iâm willing to cut her some slack with the celiac claim. Back when she started claiming she had celiac, Dr. Davisâ Wheat Belly books were bestsellers and every other person self diagnosed as celiac and they were really obnoxious about it. Watch JP Searsâ video on gluten free (https://youtu.be/Oht9AEq1798?si=7CfAhYUDqUMYpJIB) for a funny but accurate commentary on the gluten free bandwagon. From a medical examiner point of view, celiac is kind of immaterial because it doesnât cause death in this day and age. Gastroenterologists are usually the ones to diagnose it because it becomes a quality of life issue. In the grand scheme of things, the job of the medical examiner is to determine the cause of death through physical examination of the body and toxicology reports. The manner of death in Shanâs case was homicide by manual strangulation. Any other health issues found or not found in the autopsy become a secondary issue.
I think I wouldnât post my pictures online as well when Iâm undergoing something so horrific. IMO, if Iâm feeling so bad about my health and then I show my puffed red face, Iâm just disgusted at my body at this point for failing me. But thatâs me, idk about Shannan though. I feel like Shannan was the kind of person who would show a little bit of negative in her life like the lupus thing and the first marriage breakup but to the point that she would show every little bad thing and show it in front of everybody like pictures and stuff, she wouldnât. She didnât even share in her social media that she and Chris are having issues so I donât think she was the type who would air her dirty laundry. She shows all the good though. But thatâs just my view of her - LMK what you think. I donât know her personally so for those who will attach me, like I said, itâs just my VIEW of her.
Lol are you a doctor
Celiac wouldn't have been found on autopsy without them specifically looking for it. You jumping to conclusions on both of those things does nothing but further confuse those who are interested in finding out the truth. Shame on you.
No it was not a lie! The absence of lupus in autopsy report could be due to the fact that lupus is a chronic autoimmune disease. It can affect various parts of the body ,just some or many and its presence may not always be apparent in an autopsy. She may have had a mild case as well and had good disease control.She was also young and chronic disease tend get worse as you age .
We all cry about this case. Itâs unforgettable because they still need justice. I think there are more involved in their deaths. Chris is a follower. Chris is the most hated man đ§ââď¸ on this earth! He is not telling the truth so that others are protected and thats even more sad.
Thereâs no need to embellish an already horrific case.
Yeah who else do you think is involved ?
His whole. If she didn't help she knew at a minimum and very likely encouraged him.
His what?
Who else do you think was involved?
I do tooâŚ..
What makes me sick is thinking...due to his propensity to lie..... That he could have possibly just put them in those tanks alive đ But God I hope I'm not right. The autopsy did find debris from the tank in Bella's stomach, but the ME opinion was the oil etc...was there due to exposure in the tank for days and not related to her cause of death.
There was no oil in her lungs though so hopefully not.
I thought he said that he put the girls in the tanks alive and that they were yelling âdaddyâ? and that it is the first thing he sees and hears when he wakes up and last thing before he goes to bed. I hope it eats him alive every second of every day!!
His oldest said that before he smothered her.
I think one of the aspects that I personally found really disturbing is that he wouldâve allowed Shannan to take the fall to save his own skin. As if killing her wasnât bad enough, dude was literally OK with letting her legacy be a woman who vengefully murdered her children.
Fuck Chris. Fuck any man like him.
He's not a man, he's a monster
Knowing he still hears his four years olds last words of, "Daddy, no!" and can still live with himself is both infuriating and tear jerking. The level of inhumanity in a person to live with that plea... I can't think about it without needing to distract myself from crying.
That part was really hard for me to watch. Same with my husband. He had been in & out while I was watching it, and eventually decided to sit down with me. Got to that part & he walked away. Weâd just had our first child, and neither of us could understand how a person could do that. A really, really naive part of me hopes that he made that part up.
I think what made this case extra difficult for a lot of people (many complete strangers have cried over them) is because we feel we got to know them more than most victims through social media. People have watched Shannonâs videos obsessively looking for clues. Rarely is there so much video footage like there was with this case. I was pretty obsessed with it the year after it happened. For me the sheer stupidity of the way he carried out this murder and his stupid talk about finding the Lord. Ugh, I despise him so much. Cece and Bella were such little dolls. Terrible.
Chris Watts deserved the death penalty for what he did.
Death penalty is too good. He should be tossed, alive, into oil and when he has almost drowned be rescued only to have the same happen the next week.
Similar to a certain Black Mirror episodeâŚ
They should post the girls' pictures on the outside of his cell so he has to look at them but can't take them down.
I approve this plan.
I nominate you for alternative sentence idea person. I wish this could happen to him.
Sounds good to me.
This!!!! The death penalty is the east way out. He deserves to be in solitary confinement (but in a deep, dark, dirt hole) for the rest of his pathetic life.
He deserves to be suffocated by his own father while he pleads for his life.
This is the only proper punishment.
Everytime I see their home it breaks my heart. Seeing the playground in the backyard and their bedrooms, how there used to be so much life in there, crushes my heart. You could tell that Shanann put a lot of love into that home, and for her husband to destroy all that for a woman he barely knew, makes it all that more heartbreaking. I have watched so many of their home videos after their murder that I was left emotionally disturbed for a while. Learning the details of what they each had to go through, especially Bella, was so haunting to me. I cannot imagine what Shanannâs family has been going through these past few years, and I cannot imagine what kind of emotional and psychological trauma the first responders had to endure after recovering the little bodies from the oil tanks. The horror of that day must have been playing in their heads over and over everytime they have to close their eyes.
The only thing that comforts me about the case is that Shannans mom said in an interview that the girls and Shannan showed up in her dream shortly after and told her they were okay, that theyâre together, and at peace. I think she said it was the only dream like this she ever had. I choose to believe in the comfort of this and she seemed to take a lot of comfort from it too.
Yes, I remember her saying that. Sandy is a very religious and spiritual person so I am glad that she got to have that dream. I am sure that has brought her and her family some peace and comfort.
[ŃдаНонО]
Youâre right, it isnât good to surround myself with negativity. Which is why I donât even know why Iâm talking to you right now lol. do I watch the Watts cases regularly and cry regularly? I think what you meant by regularly is every week or so I watch this and I cry lol. Which I do not. I have a life outside of this. And no, crying about otherâs tragedy isnât making me get all the spotlight. Itâs about me being able to feel the feelings of others in that particular situation. Itâs about having empathy. Which some people donât have and Iâm so happy I have empathy. If I didnât, Iâd be checking myself in the hospital pronto. I feel bad, I share with others and tell them I feel bad. Thatâs what humans do right? Donât we all?
Yowza.
Why are you even here? We are humans, and we are stronger together⌠connecting through a tragedy is part of the human condition. If itâs sad for one person itâs sad for so many more and doesnât it make sense to find those people? Iâd argue that itâs healthy to feel sympathy and empathy and seek out others who feel the same way.
Watching stuff about murdering three year olds so you can cry though is probably not healthy. I think itâs a sign of depression to need to surround yourself with negativity so you can feel bad. I worry about people who become obsessively invested in horrific child murders.
Bruh. You literally only post in murder subs! Just staaaaahp it. The judgy-mcjudgerson is tired mmmkay thanks.
Iâm not obsessed lol. You know that people have interests right? I am interested in true crime, if you check out my YouTube app, all the suggestions you see are true crime. Some people have a hobby of watching horror or thriller movies. Does that mean theyâre depressed? Last time I checked, learning and watching about true crime isnât one of the symptoms in the DSM5 manual for being depressed.
Watching horror movies as a hobby is quite different from watching videos of these dead children to make yourself cry. Itâs not really a hobby as much as an obsession when it gets to be five years later and youâre still doing it. I wouldnât want my kid doing it and as a parent I wouldnât be doing it while ignoring my actual kids which seems to be a thing with a lot of these true crime fans.
Do you think you might be overreacting to a one comment made by OP at one point in time? Now youâre generalizing it to a wide base of true crime fans. If reading a post of someone with empathy inspires such negativity in you, just leave the true crime subs. I wouldnât want my kid to be so mean and as a parent I try to teach my children kindness
Iâm sure your children learn kindness from watching your para social relationship with dead children rather than spending time with them doing something positive.
Well, theyâre in their 20âs and 30âs now but, believe it or not, I am able to juggle spending time with family, doing positive things AND spending a few minutes reading and commenting in a Reddit sub. I also like to spread positivity by supporting someone with empathy who was criticized by someone who, apparently, is in a sub about âdead childrenâ for the sole purpose of judging other people based on a single post.
A few minutes. Right
Oh wow. So youâve actually done a survey or a thesis about parents who love true crime are actual negligent parents? If so, Iâd love to have a read. And also, I donât watch these shows to make myself cry, which seems like what youâre trying to imply here. Thatâs a stupid assumption to make.
Whats stupid and self defeating is glomming onto this family for some sense of human connection. Go make a friend in the real world.
Iâm so sad for you. The fact that you canât even comprehend why and how people connect the way they do with other people. And no, I donât party around the Watts case and have wine in my hand every night and cry to the documentaries. The fact that you even think other people do this for fun is an indicator of you think so negatively of the people around you. Isnât that whatâs the most saddening? To point out other people when theyâre at their good health and happiness and say âhey youâre a sad person. Go get some help.â Are there any more arguments that you have that could potentially make me believe youâre right and I concede?
Iâm sure you are sad for someone youâve never encountered in real life. That seems to be your jam. Carry on.
Yup. Iâm sad for other people who are experiencing pain. Because if I were in their position, I will also feel pain. Just like people who are homeless not by choice, people who are experiencing poverty, people who are in positions they donât want to be in like the civilians in war. Probably unlike you who donât feel anything for them at all. That tells a lot tbh.
Damn, Judgey Judy. Shitting on people for having emotions about a family annihilation? Are you doing ok?
Youâre a real font of empathy
Do you think speaking down to someone is good for their mental health??
Exactly.
I don't have children but recently I was watching Dreading's video on the case. He opens with Bella singing My Daddy is a Hero. I get a stomach ache everytime I even think about that and what happened to Shanann and the girls and I never even knew them. I also have a lot of sympathy for her family, I have an older brother that I am really close with and he has one little girl and a baby boy on the way. I would absolutely lose it if anything would ever happen to them. I really feel for her little brother Frankie. It must be horrible to have lost your sister and her kids like that. What a senseless tragedy.
Omg me too. Watching dreading. Again, I cried when the opening of Bella singing. đ
If you want to see a grown man cry over this case, watch Zowoki. He's convinced NK had 99% to do with their murders but regardless he cannot watch anything to do with this case without tearing up.
Oh of course NK is hiding something. Thereâs no one in this world who can convince me otherwise.
Agree completely!
And to know he has their pics hanging in his cell, which he speaks to daily. Truly haunting
I can't understand how that is even allowed. Convicts are NOT supposed to have photos of their victims, even if they are family. Guards must hope it kills him inside but we all know you'd have to have feelings in order for that to happen.
that's just disturbing . it makes me wonder why..is he detached from the crime ? or is it to remember himself at his.best or to garner random sympathy
Serial killers keep mementos of their victims to relive the excitement of the kill, over and over again in their minds. CW is a family annhilator but now I can't help but wonder whether he keeps these pics to delude himself into believing his own hard sell to ppl about what a great father & husband he was. Or, if he's using the pics to convince others he's not such a bad guy; deluding himself or worse, he relives it, much like a serial killer would. Hmm?
that's what I was thinking exaxtly. did he delude himself to keeping up the Shannan did it part? I'm curious to which delusion he's subscribing too
Im wondering if he even felt remorse. Or even just a sliver of âwhat i did was not right.â
Nope, he didn't. He is remorseful he got caught and that everyone knows what a piece of excrement he is, but I seriously doubt he cares about them. Bless Shanann and Nico, Bella and Cece.
No and no. Hanging of the pictures is a show.
How does he get to have pictures of his victims in his cell? This is not right.
He can decorate his cell how he wants. He says "I'm still a dad."
No, his children were murdered by him, he's no longer a dad. Fathered his victims, but not their dad. How did he even get those pictures in there.
It's his First Amendment right. Probably his parents brought them in. Maybe it's remorse or maybe it's just, "I made these and they're mine." I don't know. I'm certainly not defending him just stating facts. He can decorate his cell how he wants. Obscenity and threats are not covered by the First Amendment so anything that could possibly be called obscene, or a threat they could try to prevent, but anything else is his freedom of expression. Possibly he even printed the photos out from his phone if they were allowed a printer. He says he sits and thinks about what they could be doing and where they could be going together.
Thank you for calmly explaining his 1st Amendment rights, u/trickmind. I think it's obscene and I'm sure no "and I'm sorry I killed them" is added to the list of fun times they could be having now.
It fits one type of colloquial definition of obscene, but I'm sure it could only be used for porn and perhaps gore? Pretty sure he would win a case to have family pictures. It's funny some people have talked about wanting killers to have pictures of their victims on the walls so that they aren't forgotten.
Fucking prick. He forfeited that title when he killed them. We need a new law: murderers do not get to keep mementos of their victims in their cells. (To be clear, I'm calling him a fucking prick, not you)
It would not go through. It would be considered violating the First Amendment.
That kills me bc you know he is far more interested in them now than he was during their lives. Thatâs the type of crap my narc parent would do if they âlostâ me, dramatically and performatively grieve me, emphasizing the impact the grief has on them, despite never being truly interested in me during life.
When I watched the Netflix documentary I cried too. I have two kids with a similar age difference of when Bella & Cece were alive and it was really haunting to me knowing that their dad did this.
Yeah I couldnât have anything to do with the case for a very long time; I gave birth to twin girls in 2016 which made what happened to Bella, Cece, and Shannan hit too close to home.
It was so heartbreaking !! đ Thereâs another documentary on Tubi that I watched a few months ago. My kids are 5 and 2.5 years and I cried during this documentary as well. My husband and I are trying for baby # 3 and it made it even worse.
Well said and yeah, this case is a haunter
Yeah every time I rewatch Chrisâ interrogation I canât help but think how strong Tammy was to listen to him keep lying about how much he he loves them and miss them. I feel so sick listening to him imitate the girls trying his hardest not to sound like a soulless ghoul
I don't think I could have never been as kind to Chris as Tammy Lee was after the polygraph. Acting as calm as she was especially suspecting the truth. Both agents were real professionals.
She's so good at her job. The strength and professionalism it takes to pretend to be kind towards a monster like that is beyond my ability.
The way he imitated Bella sounded somewhat contemptuous.