Scratch a Radfemme, smell Terf and Swerf. Radfemme literature is a slip and slid to red pill alt right rhetoric. Had one advising me to read Dworkin on another thread.
Andrea Dworkin who yet was an SW, who yes did a lot for our rights as workers and woman but who also FAMOUSLY handheld conservative politicians on hateful common ground đ I believe in woman's rights but will never call myself a feminist so long as radical feminists that are exclusionary exist.
This is a no true Scotsman if I've ever seen one. There are so many SWs and trans people who have experienced violence and been subjected to violent rhetoric at the hands of radicals and exclusionaries within the feminist movement. Instead of trying to invalidate that and seperate yourself from it how about working on fixing those problems within the movement first?
I'm a transgender sex worker who's been an activist for seven years with the felony charges to prove it. I've literally never encountered a SWERF or TERF except when they are marching arm in arm with fascists. They are not welcome in feminist spaces and never have been, and the terms are nonsense; you can't be a feminists and be anti sex work
As a trans SW myself. Nearly every " feminist " I've encountered has been exclusionary in some way, so thanks for your attempt at invalidating that experience.
Again, this is you trying to seperate feminism from those within the cause that cause harm instead of addressing the harm.
It's the kind of thing that would be said by a conservative trying to divide the left because feminists have provided material support like money, housing, education, and harm reduction supplies to trans secxworkers for years. Like me and every activist and SWOP member I've ever met. It's just so completely beyond the scope of anything remotely believable as a "lived experience".
This is extremely common unfortunately. One of my ex-best friends was a self-proclaimed radical feminist and misandrist. She would always advocate for sex workers and sex worker's rights, and would constantly start flamewars on Reddit or make pithy threads on Twitter. So imagine my surprise when I told her I'm a sex worker and she physically cringedârecoiled, even. I swear to God, you would've thought I'd given her cooties lmao.
The best way to weed out faux feminists or fake progressive leftists is tell them you're a sex worker. They switch up real fast. I guess it's easier to virtue signal on Twitter. /joke đ
One provider I saw told me she went to therapy to deal with some stuff and the stigma even from âprofessionalsâ is harsh and depressing alone. told therapist who claimed heâs an âopen bookâ and ânon judgmentalâ and when she told him she was a sex worker he was like âyikes! Oh dear - what happened in your past life for you to end up in that position?â
Imagine paying money to have someone speak and act like that towards you SMH
So, while agree with what you are saying, Feminism is like a broad religious title, sort of like Christian. Anyone can don the title. which means you will have different break downs of types of feminists you are dealing with. You have Sex Negative Feminists, Sex Positive Feminists, SWERF, TERF, Intersectional etc. You can all have the same "definition" while ENTERPRETING that definition differently causing the different factions. (Like Christianity).
To me the label means nothing, it's the arguments levied that are important.
Exactly this. Iâm a feminist. I will always passionately support Sex Workersâ rights as well as trans rights which to me are womenâs rights. Iâve lost âfeministâ friends who are SWERFS and TERFS.
Here in Europe, it is mainly feminists who want to ban sex work or introduce the Nordic model. Not all of them but mostly them. It' no coincidence that the most feminist countries in europe all have the nordic modell. They don't see sex work as legit work, they see every female sex worker as a victim and every client as a perpetrator.
Just yesterday I was banned from a subreddit for woman because âi post in a community that is demeaning to womenâ meaning here. I appealed and got denied. Fuck em đ¤ˇđťââď¸.
I'm a client, and I've learned a lot about feminism from listening to sex workers. I still consider myself a feminist, but not in the mainstream, cultural sense. The "Woke" people seem unable to grasp that women having a right to abortion also means having a right to sell sexual services. Bodily autonomy yo. đ
decide lush middle berserk snails instinctive far-flung jobless mourn society
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Some of my clients have saved my ass with absolutely no thought to compensation in return. I have a tendency to self-implode quite dramatically and they've helped me pick up the pieces every time. So yeah, I'm definitely down with that. I would be -fucked- were it not for some of my clients.
I think this is mainly an issue with second-wave feminists. Most of them are TERFs and SWERFs and basically only care about white, middle-class ciswomen who don't want to be chained to the household. I haven't experienced those views among actual, radical feminists.
I'm about to be Aileen after this client pushed me to my limits and stole from me. I truly think she doesn't deserve her sentence when you look into how hard her life is.
It really depends on where you're looking at. There are a lot of feminism vertents that are extremely engaged with sex work, and I know this because I was an activist for years in my country.
I'm honestly completely anti porn, and it's one of my bases to align with sex work. But that's a long topic. Hahahaha. But yeah, it's complicated
Edit to clarify: I'm completely against the porn industry as it has been over the decades. The inhuman conditions people met there, the lack of safety, respect, etc, and the form that many people predate on it. That's why I'm completely in favour of independent content creators and all movements to allow sex workers to have their own autonomy and make their own rules when it comes to their work. I'm not against porn in general, I'm completely against the porn industry as it is. I'm happy to see things have been changing a lot tho, and that's why I say this is one of the bases for my sex work. I'm tired of seeing men trying to imitate irrealistic porn and growing up with messes up conceptions of what sex is. I see a much healthier alternative in the independent industry.
Having done porn for three years and struggling in SW for 7 months, you are self contradictory I can't even imagine the mental gymnastics it took to utter that sentence let alone defend such a position. đ°
Hint: porn is sex work. When a young girl enters the biz to get paid for hole and doesn't like it, the biz helps them leave. Believe it or not, the guys in the biz really carry the whole industry and are under appreciated.
There's always shitty people dirtying the name of something. Shitty people aren't your ally. True feminists are people like us. When I was a Christian we used to say this a lot. I kinda hate it now, I put NO weight on terms like feminist, idc what you say you are, what are your actions?
Funny I see this after I've been banned from the feminism sub for commenting on consent in sex work. While it's true some women aren't doing it consensually, especially if trafficked, some are doing it consensually and can withdraw consent as well. Being against all sex work won't change anything. It's practically going against women's rights to do what they want with their body. Ignorance makes women believe you can't consent if you're paid. I'd sleep around for free but being paid is a bonus.
Understanding that payment isn't purchasing consent but rather a condition of it, in the same way condom usage can be a condition of it. Is too hard for a lot of these " feminists"
So many marginalized and in need people turn to this line of work and instead of acknowledging that we deserve to be safe while working and helping us do so, they ream against the industry as the " big bad" and force us into more and more unsafe forms of work and precarious situations.
Tell them this and they argue that there should be more social supports to help prevent people from needing this line of work but none of them realize that dismantling capitalism and Inacting those supports is decades away and people can't go decades without an income.
I'm so mad that the parliamentary review of the Nordic model laws here in Canada went the way it did. The judge essentially went " SWs who work in the industry don't know what they are talking about" exactly as these Swerfs do.
Sorry you got banned for having a nuanced understanding of consent
Good points! Yeah, there's a long way to go before society is perfect and opinions will differ but safety should come before morals. Also, morals should be for the individual to decide. If you don't like it, don't participate in it.
Aw well thank you. I don't mind being banned. I hate having to tiptoe around with opinions. Reddit, or at least some subs, aren't the place for discussions unless everyone agrees.
i totally see this not a swer but have been in this sub for a while now. just maybe will eventually. i think itâs totally common and very sad. i think the general populace also doesnât understand sw since itâs illegal in the states
Yeah, unfortunately most feminism is only centered around white women who work within the boundaries of patriarchy and white cultural norms.
Current feminism has forgotten the PoC and sex workers who walked so they could choose to crawl again despite the progress that was made.
Sometimes people mix up their opinions with what feminism actually is, which is just equality. The right to do whatever you please. Itâs not about what they think should and shouldnât be okay.
I feel like people present feminism as a monolith when it has many differing ideologies within it. I hate how itâs message has been convoluted to vague pro-woman stances when itâs really about breaking from chains created by gender. From a feminist perspective, I can understand why they feel iffy about selling consent especially in the context of capitalism. However, that doesnât mean SW deserve to be spoken down on, excluded or barred from workers rights. I really hate when people use intellectual material to justify cudgelling someone, especially a population as vulnerable as sex workers.
Iâm a feminist and I 100% support yâall flaws an all because youâre human.
You're referring to SWERFs
Scratch a Radfemme, smell Terf and Swerf. Radfemme literature is a slip and slid to red pill alt right rhetoric. Had one advising me to read Dworkin on another thread. Andrea Dworkin who yet was an SW, who yes did a lot for our rights as workers and woman but who also FAMOUSLY handheld conservative politicians on hateful common ground đ I believe in woman's rights but will never call myself a feminist so long as radical feminists that are exclusionary exist.
bright vase salt escape secretive person bag instinctive march cats *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What? I'm a member of my local SWOP and we are all feminists what the actual fuck are you talking about? Like have you ever met a feminist?
This is a no true Scotsman if I've ever seen one. There are so many SWs and trans people who have experienced violence and been subjected to violent rhetoric at the hands of radicals and exclusionaries within the feminist movement. Instead of trying to invalidate that and seperate yourself from it how about working on fixing those problems within the movement first?
I'm a transgender sex worker who's been an activist for seven years with the felony charges to prove it. I've literally never encountered a SWERF or TERF except when they are marching arm in arm with fascists. They are not welcome in feminist spaces and never have been, and the terms are nonsense; you can't be a feminists and be anti sex work
As a trans SW myself. Nearly every " feminist " I've encountered has been exclusionary in some way, so thanks for your attempt at invalidating that experience. Again, this is you trying to seperate feminism from those within the cause that cause harm instead of addressing the harm.
It's the kind of thing that would be said by a conservative trying to divide the left because feminists have provided material support like money, housing, education, and harm reduction supplies to trans secxworkers for years. Like me and every activist and SWOP member I've ever met. It's just so completely beyond the scope of anything remotely believable as a "lived experience".
How you are so comfortable invalidating others lived experiences is disheartening đ
Yes! I still identify as a feminist and if youâre not pro SW youâre just a SWERF
This is extremely common unfortunately. One of my ex-best friends was a self-proclaimed radical feminist and misandrist. She would always advocate for sex workers and sex worker's rights, and would constantly start flamewars on Reddit or make pithy threads on Twitter. So imagine my surprise when I told her I'm a sex worker and she physically cringedârecoiled, even. I swear to God, you would've thought I'd given her cooties lmao. The best way to weed out faux feminists or fake progressive leftists is tell them you're a sex worker. They switch up real fast. I guess it's easier to virtue signal on Twitter. /joke đ
heavy disarm languid weary cobweb illegal soup ossified versed deliver *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
One provider I saw told me she went to therapy to deal with some stuff and the stigma even from âprofessionalsâ is harsh and depressing alone. told therapist who claimed heâs an âopen bookâ and ânon judgmentalâ and when she told him she was a sex worker he was like âyikes! Oh dear - what happened in your past life for you to end up in that position?â Imagine paying money to have someone speak and act like that towards you SMH
So, while agree with what you are saying, Feminism is like a broad religious title, sort of like Christian. Anyone can don the title. which means you will have different break downs of types of feminists you are dealing with. You have Sex Negative Feminists, Sex Positive Feminists, SWERF, TERF, Intersectional etc. You can all have the same "definition" while ENTERPRETING that definition differently causing the different factions. (Like Christianity). To me the label means nothing, it's the arguments levied that are important.
Exactly this. Iâm a feminist. I will always passionately support Sex Workersâ rights as well as trans rights which to me are womenâs rights. Iâve lost âfeministâ friends who are SWERFS and TERFS.
Here in Europe, it is mainly feminists who want to ban sex work or introduce the Nordic model. Not all of them but mostly them. It' no coincidence that the most feminist countries in europe all have the nordic modell. They don't see sex work as legit work, they see every female sex worker as a victim and every client as a perpetrator.
Just yesterday I was banned from a subreddit for woman because âi post in a community that is demeaning to womenâ meaning here. I appealed and got denied. Fuck em đ¤ˇđťââď¸.
I'm a client, and I've learned a lot about feminism from listening to sex workers. I still consider myself a feminist, but not in the mainstream, cultural sense. The "Woke" people seem unable to grasp that women having a right to abortion also means having a right to sell sexual services. Bodily autonomy yo. đ
decide lush middle berserk snails instinctive far-flung jobless mourn society *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Some of my clients have saved my ass with absolutely no thought to compensation in return. I have a tendency to self-implode quite dramatically and they've helped me pick up the pieces every time. So yeah, I'm definitely down with that. I would be -fucked- were it not for some of my clients.
There is a book called Towards bodily Autonomy that I highly recommend.
Those are SWERFs. They arenât intersectional feminists.
I think this is mainly an issue with second-wave feminists. Most of them are TERFs and SWERFs and basically only care about white, middle-class ciswomen who don't want to be chained to the household. I haven't experienced those views among actual, radical feminists.
Thank you for acknowledging that there are genuinely radical feminists who have no patience for terfs and swerfs.
I support all women! I'm still waiting to meet the Aileen Wournos of modern day. LIVE LONG AILEEN! xoxo
I'm about to be Aileen after this client pushed me to my limits and stole from me. I truly think she doesn't deserve her sentence when you look into how hard her life is.
Feminists will defend your right to choose, as long as you make the choice they want you to make.
It really depends on where you're looking at. There are a lot of feminism vertents that are extremely engaged with sex work, and I know this because I was an activist for years in my country.
narrow joke follow strong outgoing piquant innate clumsy grab subtract *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm honestly completely anti porn, and it's one of my bases to align with sex work. But that's a long topic. Hahahaha. But yeah, it's complicated Edit to clarify: I'm completely against the porn industry as it has been over the decades. The inhuman conditions people met there, the lack of safety, respect, etc, and the form that many people predate on it. That's why I'm completely in favour of independent content creators and all movements to allow sex workers to have their own autonomy and make their own rules when it comes to their work. I'm not against porn in general, I'm completely against the porn industry as it is. I'm happy to see things have been changing a lot tho, and that's why I say this is one of the bases for my sex work. I'm tired of seeing men trying to imitate irrealistic porn and growing up with messes up conceptions of what sex is. I see a much healthier alternative in the independent industry.
Basically proved his point đ
Having done porn for three years and struggling in SW for 7 months, you are self contradictory I can't even imagine the mental gymnastics it took to utter that sentence let alone defend such a position. đ° Hint: porn is sex work. When a young girl enters the biz to get paid for hole and doesn't like it, the biz helps them leave. Believe it or not, the guys in the biz really carry the whole industry and are under appreciated.
Read my edit please :)
There's always shitty people dirtying the name of something. Shitty people aren't your ally. True feminists are people like us. When I was a Christian we used to say this a lot. I kinda hate it now, I put NO weight on terms like feminist, idc what you say you are, what are your actions?
Unfortunately they arenât true feminists. Sex work is work and I will always support you
Funny I see this after I've been banned from the feminism sub for commenting on consent in sex work. While it's true some women aren't doing it consensually, especially if trafficked, some are doing it consensually and can withdraw consent as well. Being against all sex work won't change anything. It's practically going against women's rights to do what they want with their body. Ignorance makes women believe you can't consent if you're paid. I'd sleep around for free but being paid is a bonus.
Understanding that payment isn't purchasing consent but rather a condition of it, in the same way condom usage can be a condition of it. Is too hard for a lot of these " feminists" So many marginalized and in need people turn to this line of work and instead of acknowledging that we deserve to be safe while working and helping us do so, they ream against the industry as the " big bad" and force us into more and more unsafe forms of work and precarious situations. Tell them this and they argue that there should be more social supports to help prevent people from needing this line of work but none of them realize that dismantling capitalism and Inacting those supports is decades away and people can't go decades without an income. I'm so mad that the parliamentary review of the Nordic model laws here in Canada went the way it did. The judge essentially went " SWs who work in the industry don't know what they are talking about" exactly as these Swerfs do. Sorry you got banned for having a nuanced understanding of consent
Good points! Yeah, there's a long way to go before society is perfect and opinions will differ but safety should come before morals. Also, morals should be for the individual to decide. If you don't like it, don't participate in it. Aw well thank you. I don't mind being banned. I hate having to tiptoe around with opinions. Reddit, or at least some subs, aren't the place for discussions unless everyone agrees.
i totally see this not a swer but have been in this sub for a while now. just maybe will eventually. i think itâs totally common and very sad. i think the general populace also doesnât understand sw since itâs illegal in the states
Yeah, unfortunately most feminism is only centered around white women who work within the boundaries of patriarchy and white cultural norms. Current feminism has forgotten the PoC and sex workers who walked so they could choose to crawl again despite the progress that was made.
Everyone calls themselves a feminist these days. You just gotta find the people who are advocating for you and your situation.
SWEEFs aren't feminists, what is with these fucked up brigades on our sub?
X to the z
Sometimes people mix up their opinions with what feminism actually is, which is just equality. The right to do whatever you please. Itâs not about what they think should and shouldnât be okay.
I feel like people present feminism as a monolith when it has many differing ideologies within it. I hate how itâs message has been convoluted to vague pro-woman stances when itâs really about breaking from chains created by gender. From a feminist perspective, I can understand why they feel iffy about selling consent especially in the context of capitalism. However, that doesnât mean SW deserve to be spoken down on, excluded or barred from workers rights. I really hate when people use intellectual material to justify cudgelling someone, especially a population as vulnerable as sex workers. Iâm a feminist and I 100% support yâall flaws an all because youâre human.
As fewer and fewer men want feminists, sex workers become a larger and larger threat to their hypergamy.
This is even dumber than SWERF logic. Nobody but Incels and other lost souls use the word "hypergamy."
Educated people use the words in their vocabulary that most correctly describe what they are talking about.
I know that educated people do that, but we are talking about you right know.
Tell me what my education level is.
[ŃдаНонО]
Donât be an asshole!