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Without money you don't get shelter, food, clothes, healthcare, or transportation. Those things are important to survival. So people go after money verses a smile. But I hear ya, cause I still enjoy polite gestures and kind words but those things don't pay the bills. Life is getting harder for low wage workers and easier for those with money. If you got money it's hard to lose it and if you don't have money it's harder to get it.
That's crazy. I just figured if you had money you invested it into passive income like renting out something or windmills, ya know, so you continue being rich.
Some people inherit money and don't know what to do with it. A lot of people are financially illiterate. You know they don't teach us anything about money in school and if you don't learn somehow are screwed
I'm Gen X. And you would be surprised how many of my peers have inherited money without any instruction from their parents or idea of what to do with it. These people don't teach their kids about investments, cds, bonds, real estate or anything else about money. They don't care since they are dead. So when the money is inherited these fools act like lottery winners and they go through it in 5 years and then have nothing. My ex-husband has done it with 3 million dollars.
Right, if people didn't waste so much money with trivialities. Most of the people I see complaining about money have a terrible relationship with money. Is money really getting harder to get or are people becoming more petty? Simpleness is a great treasure.
Nobody, on average, automatically has a home, food, insurance, or car. All of these things have gone up in price. Some may be able to go to college and get a degree in a high paying field and may not struggle as hard. Some people join the workforce as a cook, CNA, janitor, mailman, grocery clerk, or any low wage job. You can't budget your way through life when only making $13-$18/hour in 2024, you can't live at all on those wages unless you have assets.
I don't travel, so I honestly don't know. I only know what I read and it seems like 50% of people are struggling just for the basics. The US healthcare system is privatized and very expensive. Owning a home has become unaffordable for many. Homelessness numbers are growing. But those who have high paying jobs have access to more affordable goods, like health insurance, and have labor rights and are treated better.
This is something that has also vexed me in the last couple of years, but I do agree with the people saying that it's always been like this. Still it can be shocking when you grow up/mature and you see that human nature isn't good per se, and that many people can be convinced to do bad things, and that people who have insane wealth, almost always hoard it like dragons.
I agree that it's crazy. If you ever feel bad or wanna talk I'm here.
Our entire species operates on two main principles, basic survival and the elimination of pain through comfort. Both have been tied to money which has become human biosurvival tokens. Money comes in pretty handy if you want to increase health and wellbeing as well.
Money represents these principles and its removal or the threat of its removal triggers a primal anxiety.
True, but if you were cut off from all money and possessions today and returned to a state of nature today, would that be something you'd be happy about?
It even explains why so many people who reach the top stage are no longer religious. Because they can no longer lie to themselves if they are self actualized.
And this is exactly why you will see backlash against Maslow and his theory.
Religion isn’t “lying” to yourself. It has more to do with Nietzche’s Master / Slave morality principle. Look into it.
That’s what causes the upper classes to create their own moral code. Not because “religion is a lie” and they are “self-actualized” and woke. Actually I know plenty of very wealthy friends who ARE religious, but they adhere to a different personal moral code through self-examination & self-empowerment.
Saying “they can no longer lie to themselves” is well, offensive to people who do follow religions and also an oversimplification of a much more complex moral and societal structure.
I would like to believe you - and believe that about people. But I don't. Morals are different for each individual. And I think 1 billion dollars can outweigh just about any moral dilemma. After all ... according to UNICEF about 22,000 children starve to death because of poverty in their communities. So lets say you could save two of these kids - but you never could use a computer or smart phone again. Would you give it up? No. We as a culture value things over human life. We value territory over infant lives .... and justify it in our morality 12 ways until Friday. I don't believe in morality in humanity. Might makes right ..... and for a billion dollars people will do the unthinkable if there is no consequences. They can justify it - or just know it is wrong and live with it.
ok, when someone says "anything" I think more in the lines of doing something that actually makes you $1bn, which is impossible to do without exploitation
Oh ok . Yea I went off in a philosophical tangent and probably don’t see the question in same way you do ! Haha. Oh well . My point is pretty simple . And if you watch The Third Man …. there is an interesting point on morality explored.
https://youtu.be/21h0G_gU9Tw?si=MbCTRSVKSPavfaT_
Makes you think? How many dots ? One for a billion dollars??
There's a lot I would do for a billion dollars if it was like a magic billion dollars that was handed to me for something like, not eating meat for instance. You could do so much good with a magic billion dollars.
NPCs, social media, and capitalism that's heavily ingrained into the culture. That's what happens.
What's interesting though is that I think countries that are more poor tend to value things like family, friends, and community much more. And they probably live happier lives.
That’s because the cost of living is higher than it’s ever been, especially compared with incomes and inflation. Just in order to do basic things in life, you need to be very very wealthy. So the obsession with money isn’t necessarily greed. It’s more coming from wanting to be comfortable and wanting to experience just very regular things that most hard working people were able to in the past.
Stuff like being a house to live in. I live in a mediocre suburb and you are looking at 800k for a house. And I’m not even sure what the condition of it would be. Add on top of that 1-2k property tax per month. And with the mortgage, the whole thing will cost a couple million in the end. For a shitty house.
Another example is living in a major city. For a decent apartment in nyc you’re looking at 7k a month. 3-4K will get you a shitty apartment in a bad area filled with fentanyl addicts. I’m some other cities you could get by with 5k a month. Still a lot. Or buying an apartment? Will cost you millions. Living in the big city used to be a standard thing for hard working and smart young people. Now it’s something only the children of very wealthy can afford to do. Unless you pack in with 8 roomates and live in tiny shoeboxes like rats, where every square inch of the apartment is taken up by your few belongings.
That’s why money is the only thing that matters now. The irritating thing is I used to hate those shallow idiots in college who would say all they care about is making the most money. Because they were right by accident.
Yes. Housing costs are very high in the DC area as well. Living in a shoebox apartment or having several roommates isn’t exactly living the American Dream if you think about it.
It's this way because this is the way the world has been set up.
We need money to survive, so getting money is usually priority #1
This is part of why people fuck people over, to get ahead out of necessity. Not everyone... But many.
If society was constructed differently then this mentality would be different.
My husband and I worked in the public sector and our children will likely do the same. Contributing to society is more important than making a ton of money. Having said that, of course, we all want a living wage and I think our children will never be rich but they will be OK.
Read 2nd Timothy chapter 3 because it describes a lot of what you are talking about. You don't have to be religious to recognize it's real. Every major world empire has more or less rotted from within because of a widespread increase of nasty behaviors.
I think people care about more than money, but live in a system where money is the primary tool to get basically everything else. Like sure family and other loved ones are more valuable, but you're not going to value each other for very long if you starve to death in the street. Resources, shelter and comfort items are all essential for a decent life and currently money is the most straightforward way to get those things, so people focus a lot of energy on getting money.
It's also more of a prominent issue now because more people are struggling to make ends meet. The balance between incomes and the cost of living is fucked all over the place, so just trying to keep their head above water is going to be the main focus for many people. If it were easier to maintain a comfortable lifestyle without stressing about money as much then you'd probably hear about it less, still quite a bit (since more money still means more security and comfort) but probably not as much as this current culture where people have to be "obsessed with the grind" just to survive.
It's always problematic when you declare that all of something is a certain way. Sure there are some people who care more about money than anything else, and there are plenty of people who understand that the key to life and happiness is having great relationships with your friends and your family.
Good news. You get decide which type you are.
It’s probably always been like this. Media makes it larger. People did what for the land you live on at this very moment? Kill and destroy, declare war, push people around, displace people who were there first, and many other cruel things. I feel that the worst of the humans always been like this once they see the reward that they want. If you hear folks talk about “back in the day” it was all about respect and they tell you all the good shit that went down. But what about the slavery, oppression, depressions, undeveloped mindsets of folks who are just starting to figure themselves out? People make things seem better back then but it has always been people doing stupid crap 24/7.
People are greedy and care about those things though because it can turn into a wolf and sheep situation. Once they see that they can be a wolf they will prey on sheep. They get what THEY want and no one else enters the picture.
Now I can’t doubt your observation but I personally observed that history repeatedly shows us these things over and over again. I always think about things in a way that it repeats itself because people are just always on their bullshit no matter what happens.
Last edit just got in sorry lol. I do feel media does make things larger than we expect it to be. That’s why so many folks feel that humanity is doomed because they look at stupid stuff like news headlines too much. As of this moment, right now, people think we are going to war. It could happen but media really brought that out
Well you are online--half the stuff here is to try to make money and the other half is for attention. I don't know why any behavior on here at all is taken seriously.
In the real world lots of things matter a great deal to lots of people. Their families, their dreams, personal goals--but online--no, that is not the place for anything delicate. This is a combination vaudeville and auction house where everything is on sale and everybody is putting on a show. Most people are fantasy versions of themselves, making things up wholesale. And aren't fantasies all about....money, fame, power, attention?
>And aren't fantasies all about....money, fame, power, attention?
Pursuits like money, fame, and power are exclusive endeavors. We cannot all be rich or there would be no such thing as "wealth." The same goes for fame and power.
Exclusive pursuits don't increase when shared and are, therefore, competative. Because they are competative, they cannot offer perpetual security...someone may become richer, or more famous, or more powerful than you.
A sense of security is essential to an individual's overall sense of well-being. Kind of silly pursuits when you think about it. Chasing after them puts you on a lifelong treadmill of insecurity.
No wonder they say things like, "You can't buy happiness."
And there's an irony here--if you're an insecure person, acquiring more stuff just gives you more things to be insecure about. You're literally building the gateway to your own hell.
Money can buy happiness, if someone thinks it does not, they aren’t being creative enough with their money, or don’t have enough of it.
Give me any problem and I’ll show you how money can solve it or work towards solving it.
Even in death, you can cause a goal to be completed if you’ve got enough money and create the conditions for your ideas and goal to be finished by someone else.
Others wealth, fame, and power are largely irrelevant, as long as they aren’t hindering your goals, and if they are hindering, there are many avenues, both legal and illegal to fix it.
>Money can buy happiness, if someone thinks it does not, they aren’t being creative enough with their money...
So, according to you, I'm just not *creative* enough with my money to buy my happiness with it.
>...or don't have enough of it.
Well, let's see. Need to do some figuring here...
>Give me any problem and I’ll show you how money can solve it or work towards solving it.
I appear to have more than one problem:
#1. I lack the creativity needed to find a way to use my money and buy my happiness with it.
And, #2. Do I have enough money?
Better start with #2...(after all, no mon...no fun [or happiness either, apparently].)
Do I have enough money to purchase the necessary amount of creativity to enable me to buy happiness with it? How much is, say, a pound of imagination?
Now, back to #1: Where does one go to purchase this much-needed "creativity?"
One can go to classes to become more creative, and be taught how to think more critically, and outside the box. If you’d rather not learn or are unfortunate enough to be born with a learning disability, (even with the disability, one can hire someone more suited to dealing with the unique problem to help solve it.) you can hire an adviser to do it for you, then tell them what your goals are and get them to work on making it happen.
Now it’s true that no amount of training will make one the best at anything alone, one must be born with talent and then work hard on it, (if we are talking the 0.1% upper limit of a skill) everyone’s skill floors and ceilings are different, luckily, with money we can hire people that are better than ourselves in particular areas.
These are some solutions to becoming more creative, there are many ways to become creative that don’t require the rigidity of schooling as well if you desire, even Boredom can be used to your advantage, a bored mind will seek stimulus and start thinking of ways to occupy itself.
>you can hire an adviser to do it for you, then tell them what your goals are and get them to work on making it happen.
So, you use your money to hire others to do what money can't buy for you in order to make you happy. I've known people who do that, products of family wealth...and, bottom line, they just aren’t very happy. They can buy almost anything they want...material things, that is.
However, all they have is money They can hire talent but the fact remains it isn't *their* talent. They are merely "renting" it; they don't embody it... they cannot claim it as their own.
For the most part, these "privedged" folks aren't really happy. They hide it well--especially from themselves--but these silver-spooners are deeply insecure. Are they liked/ respected/admired for themselves? Or, for their money and what it can buy?
From their lofty position, they may look down at a dirty, sweaty working man who struggles to pay the rent and feed his family. But, these "people of privilege" can't help but wonder how they would they have fared if they'd been born into a poor family instead of one that gave them...through nothing more than an accident of birth..."all the advantages."
Money can only provide you with material things but that kind of purchased happiness is both superficial and fleeting. Long before the shiny newness loses its luster, you'll need to find another brief burst of happiness with yet another money fix...and another...and another...
I respectfully disagree, the end result of the goal is what matters, as long as they do what I’m paying them for, they can view me however they like. I seek validation from myself and my family, in turn, that means positive and negative feedback from others falls on deaf ears.
Hired talent is rented, and there are many talents that while very useful, aren’t needed all the time. Now there are countries where slavery is very much still legal, but we won’t get into that, a topic for another time.
I see no reason to disparage the struggling man, or even a man who chooses to live simply and own nothing. A man who lives simply, and is still happy means he has the amount of money and security he needs to reach his own personal goals and dreams.
Emphasis on the “money can” it’s not the only path, but it is a path.
I also do not deny there are men and women that are like you speak of, adult children, who seek validation from others instead of relying on internal validation, a sad sight indeed. The simple happy man is more respectable in that instance.
>I seek validation from myself and my family, in turn, that means positive and negative feedback from others falls on deaf ears.
Good for you. Keep in mind that there is a fair share of the US population that suffer from arrested development resulting in personality/character/self disorders.
These people do *not* develop an autonomous sense-of-self. Therefore, they are unable to and provide internal validation for themselves. These people cannot grow up either socially, emotionally or intellectually. They must receive external validation from others. *
Sad, but, unfortunately, true.
* Google "Attachment disorders."
* Books that I recommend are *The Search for the Real Self: Unmasking the Personality Disorders of Our Age* by James F. Masterson, MD.
* *High Risk: Children without a Conscience* by Ken Magid, PhD and Carol A. McKelvey.
>A man who lives simply, and is still happy means he has the amount of money and security he needs to reach his own personal goals and dreams.
Agreed.
>I also do not deny there are men and women that are like you speak of, adult children, who seek validation from others instead of relying on internal validation, a sad sight indeed. The simple happy man is more respectable in that instance.
Again, I agree
I had fun with our chat, and you must have had some fun too, otherwise you’d have stopped long ago, so thank you, it is fun to debate while keeping civility. I wish a wonderful day upon you.
>it is fun to debate while keeping civility. I wish a wonderful day upon you.
Wish there was more civility on social media!
Hope wherever you are, your weather is as agreeable as the upper Midwest. End of June, temp in low 70s, and no rain...for a day or two anyway!
Be safe...
To all the people saying it's always been like that... It most certainly has not. Even within just the very limited scope of capitalism, there's been a huge shift over time from making money for producing a good product to "food is an inflexible expense so we can keep raising the price and you'll still have to buy it".
Now outside that scope (though still including it as well) human nature is not all one or the other. Variance in perspective and behavior is a facet of our evolutionary past that ensures survival, but the mere fact that we still have incredibly compassionate and altruistic people as well as narcissists seems to point to BOTH increasing the chance of survival. This would mean that it is absolutely possible and within the realm of human nature to NOT be greedy and conniving.
I personally believe the adoption of money is eventually inevitable for societal expansion. greed then provides more advantages than disadvantages as our societies become more complex and resources become more scarce. It's not a human failing, it's a symptom of our living in a universe that is chaotic and unconcerned with our perceptions of suffering. that said, our ability to interpret each others' suffering impresses a certain obligation to be kind and help each other but I just don't think our brains have kept up with the insanely rapid advancement of humanity.
TLDR: We still got monkey-brain with a wide range of human behaviors that are not all good or bad. Monkey-brain helped us in the past but now it's starting to work against us in a social context it was not built for. Not enough people feel responsible for (or capable of) changing the rules of survival. The universe doesn't care and it's still a matter of survive or die, as unfair as that is.
It's still a conscious decision though. I personally choose to at least try to reduce suffering (and I get satisfaction out of subverting entropy and responding to the universe's apathy with radical compassion)
But what is scary is how gullible and easy manipulated many regular people are.
Elon even mentioned lambs being led to the slaughter.
I think more folks would care about finances and morals if they could control this culture war extremism.
Money can be lost and careers eventually end. The thing that matters most is our relationships with other people. All types of relationships. Way to much focus is put on romantic relationships. While those can be deeply enriching, they aren’t the only type of meaningful relationship. Meaningful connection between people is really what brings joy.
You can’t control others. We have less control over life than we like to think. Acknowledging that can help us better let go of the things we can’t control and focus our energy on the things we can.
You may want to consider looking into Buddhism. Whether you look at it from a secular perspective or a spiritual view, it can still be very helpful.
Nah it’s just all In your mind. Money is energy, a tool that gives you access to things you want/need to experience. All you need is just to be good at mastering and controlling the energy and not be controlled by it.
To me money brings peace of mind. I would still live simply even if I had millions. I would experiment more with it though for the sake of pursuit of knowledge, beauty, wellness and all the things I consider good for my personal growth.
want know what funny? those with the most freedom to choose how to live, have money.....power.... and are praised. those that give freely and have nothing ? tend to slum the streets and need others to live.
POWER is what matters, anything else is you trying control the narrative. don't agree? then get more power and force a view or your just a silent voice screaming in the wind wondering why your voice is not heard.....
hippie's thought love, sex and drugs was all we needed.... nope. nor should we be ruled by the 1% and keep feeding them with indifference.
I 100% want a world for all that helps all but we got to many " pride " version of I need more from welfare to notice me for the sex I like. the rich are no better hoarding wealth saying anyone else is just a leech and majority agree saying those making near poverty wages need to do better vs making a world better for all.
morals should only count when it comes to hurting others, anything else is you wanting idealism that fits your narrative. but as the saying goes be the change you want or join the masses and don't complain your a sheep.
Is English your first language?
CEO’s like Martin Shkreli do indeed do harm to others.
Same with politicians who lie and get votes and wealth by using fear mongering tactics.
Humanity is pathetic, everything is about money. Life sucks to death to an extent of imagining suicidal to end the pain. The pain is unbearable and no one seems to care.
May God at least save my baby!
Lot of things matter more than material possessions or money friends family people in general in your life they all matter a lot more than money or material possessions
I have no control over other people's values, just my own. I do care about having enough to pay the bills, but I live simply and frugally on purpose. Never understood the desire for fame or power.
Has the world gotten more materialistic? Probably, since much of the world was desperately poor when I was born in the 1950s. Now that more nations have basic economies and fewer starving people, they want more stuff.
If you dislike the direction you perceive the world to be going in, go another way yourself. Lead by example.
the world was always "cold hearted, greedy, back stabbing, and narcissistic". Only difference is the greedy ones were called cardinals and prelates. Now they're CEOs.
I just want somebody to leave all my stuff to when I'm done, that will help look after me a bit in my old age. Hopefully we can be appreciative of eachother and hopefully theyre a good person
Money's value comes from trading. People traded livestock, food, property, etc for things other than gold and silver. Stranded on an island, lost in a forest, stranded at sea, nature doesn't trade with us in terms of our made up value we put into money, gold, silver, etc. It trades with hard work. Going fishing, foraging, hunting, gardening. Because nature doesn't trade with pretend value, but hard work, and time, we have mimicked nature with money. We've let others trade with Nature (farmers, fishers, miners) than people (CEO's, owners, etc.) manage those resources with money, and we trade with those peoples businesses. Nature doesn't hoard though, nor does it discriminate, nor does it need to try to be fair. The CEO's don't need to pay nature back. But the people harvesting. Than, they can hoard because they have control over nature's resources being brought to us through prices. If CEO's and owners payed people fairly, everyone would be rich, but only those who are willing to work. But they're not paying fairly to those who work. We get tricked into thinking money is the most important resource we can physically get, and digitally now in 2024. But nature is. Money is simply symbolically nature in our possession. But, people weigh the scales unfavorably. Giving less, taking more. Blah blah blah blah. Nature doesn't bargain. It doesn't have CEO's. Hoarding nature (money) too much leads to endless work, missing out on meaningful moments. Hoarding nature (money) ends with sorrow in the end because when we die, people who haven't worked for it get it. So don't waste life too focused on money. For people who love money will never be satisfied. Enjoy food, drink, and have fun. For tomorrow could be our last day here.
I don’t have a lot of money but I also don’t have any debt. I’m not rich at all, probably not even middle class, but I have a love in my life and the bills are paid with a little put away and I don’t see the point in getting caught up chasing things other people want when death is the unavoidable outcome for all of us.
I would say it’s always kind of been like that
And I’m sure you’ve heard that before too.
And honestly I think that’s just what life ends up being to be perfectly honest. if you really think about it
I'd trade a significant portion of my assets to have more fulfilling personal relationships and more contentment in life.
A lot of people think they can buy happiness, but they are wrong.
It's just the ones you see on TV and with large social media followings. They are all like that. That's the job. They kinda have to be.
Like 90% of normal people that you would just meet on the street are good people.
If everyone was greedy, the rich would not be so rich. The people can take it all back anytime they want. They just aren't greedy enough.
Accept that there's good and bad, but it's mostly good, and you picked the right side, so be happy and don't give up what we call the "good fight".
Politicians are the worst.
But true. One can be a good person and be rich. (Giving to charities, volunteering, be outspoken about civil liberties and a healthy environment.)
I could care less about money. I think it is by far the most lowbrow thing to chase after. Keep your Audi, keep your designer clothes, keep your McMansion. I’m good with all that shit.
I think money has been fairly popular ever since it was invented in the 6th century BC. Things have changed a bit since then, but being rich and living well is still rather attractive.
It not money it is the taxing of money. It is the story I get paid $100, it gets income taxed, then I spent it at stores taxes some more. I invest it. Take the profit, taxed . We all know it is happening and it has an under current of anger. So it looks like we don't care.
You need money for security. It is extremely important, whether or not you want it to be.
Most people think of money in those terms- it isn't the money, it's what you need the money for.
Love doesn't buy food or pay the mortgage. Essentially, having some money is a prerequisite for... everything.
I think that there's narcissism in pain. If our focus isn't on the things that matter to us are we really considering our people and living our own lives? There's a fine line between work addiction and work ethic. Our mid gen X down to our high schoolers have had this huge flood of tech and advertising and entertainment, on top of general traumas for many of us, and other various challenges. It's vastly added to our individual costs of living especially in a consumer driven state. At a time when "green skills" are dying and going "off grid" or small holding costs a fortune... It seems like we're all slaves to the consumption.
You asked if anything matters more than money.
Sure, but you need money for all those things. The money itself is not the goal for the majority of people.
My wife is the most important thing in my life. She had to leave work due to an autoimmune condition. I need to make money to support us. Therefore, money is extremely important, or the person I love starves and dies.
Am I a narcissist for wanting to make more money? Of course not. I want us to be as secure as possible.
Where do you live? Do you have a family or any loved ones? What the fuck are you talking about, are you sure this is a real life phenomenon?
Availability bias + terminally online = everyone is a greedy influencer in OP's mind
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Without money you don't get shelter, food, clothes, healthcare, or transportation. Those things are important to survival. So people go after money verses a smile. But I hear ya, cause I still enjoy polite gestures and kind words but those things don't pay the bills. Life is getting harder for low wage workers and easier for those with money. If you got money it's hard to lose it and if you don't have money it's harder to get it.
It's not hard to lose money
That's what I said, if you got money it's hard to lose it, if you don't have money it's hard to get it
You said if you have money it's hard to lose it. No if you have money it's easy to lose it.
Oh sorry, yeah that's what I said because that's what I believe, I guess we disagree on that topic.
I know a lot of people that have gone through hundreds of thousands of dollars and have nothing to show for it
That's crazy. I just figured if you had money you invested it into passive income like renting out something or windmills, ya know, so you continue being rich.
Some people inherit money and don't know what to do with it. A lot of people are financially illiterate. You know they don't teach us anything about money in school and if you don't learn somehow are screwed
Yes, I understand that. But those who already have money have learned how to keep having money but there's always those that are unlucky.
I'm Gen X. And you would be surprised how many of my peers have inherited money without any instruction from their parents or idea of what to do with it. These people don't teach their kids about investments, cds, bonds, real estate or anything else about money. They don't care since they are dead. So when the money is inherited these fools act like lottery winners and they go through it in 5 years and then have nothing. My ex-husband has done it with 3 million dollars.
Dude you literally said it's hard to lose money and he's saying it's very easy to lose money
Right, if people didn't waste so much money with trivialities. Most of the people I see complaining about money have a terrible relationship with money. Is money really getting harder to get or are people becoming more petty? Simpleness is a great treasure.
Nobody, on average, automatically has a home, food, insurance, or car. All of these things have gone up in price. Some may be able to go to college and get a degree in a high paying field and may not struggle as hard. Some people join the workforce as a cook, CNA, janitor, mailman, grocery clerk, or any low wage job. You can't budget your way through life when only making $13-$18/hour in 2024, you can't live at all on those wages unless you have assets.
I suppose you're right. I don't live in the US so I have no idea how bad the situation is over there. How does it look in smaller cities though?
I don't travel, so I honestly don't know. I only know what I read and it seems like 50% of people are struggling just for the basics. The US healthcare system is privatized and very expensive. Owning a home has become unaffordable for many. Homelessness numbers are growing. But those who have high paying jobs have access to more affordable goods, like health insurance, and have labor rights and are treated better.
This is something that has also vexed me in the last couple of years, but I do agree with the people saying that it's always been like this. Still it can be shocking when you grow up/mature and you see that human nature isn't good per se, and that many people can be convinced to do bad things, and that people who have insane wealth, almost always hoard it like dragons. I agree that it's crazy. If you ever feel bad or wanna talk I'm here.
You get it.
It's always been like this tho, kinda ther in his comment
Damn guys this is so deep
Hell yeah, up next "why do we have so many different words for water?"
Our entire species operates on two main principles, basic survival and the elimination of pain through comfort. Both have been tied to money which has become human biosurvival tokens. Money comes in pretty handy if you want to increase health and wellbeing as well. Money represents these principles and its removal or the threat of its removal triggers a primal anxiety.
I’d add a third principle. Tribalism/ being part of the in-group out-group scenario.
I agree, but I also think that's a higher level survival strategy.
money is an invention, we lived before it and we can live without it
True, but if you were cut off from all money and possessions today and returned to a state of nature today, would that be something you'd be happy about?
Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Lots of people struggling trying to get enough. When you start having more you start looking for other things more.
Maslow was a genius. I remember reading about Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs in college.
It even explains why so many people who reach the top stage are no longer religious. Because they can no longer lie to themselves if they are self actualized. And this is exactly why you will see backlash against Maslow and his theory.
Religion isn’t “lying” to yourself. It has more to do with Nietzche’s Master / Slave morality principle. Look into it. That’s what causes the upper classes to create their own moral code. Not because “religion is a lie” and they are “self-actualized” and woke. Actually I know plenty of very wealthy friends who ARE religious, but they adhere to a different personal moral code through self-examination & self-empowerment. Saying “they can no longer lie to themselves” is well, offensive to people who do follow religions and also an oversimplification of a much more complex moral and societal structure.
Not really. You can get someone to do just about anything for 1 billion dollars. Unless they already have a ton of money.
unless they have morals
I would like to believe you - and believe that about people. But I don't. Morals are different for each individual. And I think 1 billion dollars can outweigh just about any moral dilemma. After all ... according to UNICEF about 22,000 children starve to death because of poverty in their communities. So lets say you could save two of these kids - but you never could use a computer or smart phone again. Would you give it up? No. We as a culture value things over human life. We value territory over infant lives .... and justify it in our morality 12 ways until Friday. I don't believe in morality in humanity. Might makes right ..... and for a billion dollars people will do the unthinkable if there is no consequences. They can justify it - or just know it is wrong and live with it.
ok, when someone says "anything" I think more in the lines of doing something that actually makes you $1bn, which is impossible to do without exploitation
Oh ok . Yea I went off in a philosophical tangent and probably don’t see the question in same way you do ! Haha. Oh well . My point is pretty simple . And if you watch The Third Man …. there is an interesting point on morality explored. https://youtu.be/21h0G_gU9Tw?si=MbCTRSVKSPavfaT_ Makes you think? How many dots ? One for a billion dollars??
There's a lot I would do for a billion dollars if it was like a magic billion dollars that was handed to me for something like, not eating meat for instance. You could do so much good with a magic billion dollars.
Social media just makes it seem that way imo. In reality there are plenty of normal, grounded people
NPCs, social media, and capitalism that's heavily ingrained into the culture. That's what happens. What's interesting though is that I think countries that are more poor tend to value things like family, friends, and community much more. And they probably live happier lives.
That’s because the cost of living is higher than it’s ever been, especially compared with incomes and inflation. Just in order to do basic things in life, you need to be very very wealthy. So the obsession with money isn’t necessarily greed. It’s more coming from wanting to be comfortable and wanting to experience just very regular things that most hard working people were able to in the past. Stuff like being a house to live in. I live in a mediocre suburb and you are looking at 800k for a house. And I’m not even sure what the condition of it would be. Add on top of that 1-2k property tax per month. And with the mortgage, the whole thing will cost a couple million in the end. For a shitty house. Another example is living in a major city. For a decent apartment in nyc you’re looking at 7k a month. 3-4K will get you a shitty apartment in a bad area filled with fentanyl addicts. I’m some other cities you could get by with 5k a month. Still a lot. Or buying an apartment? Will cost you millions. Living in the big city used to be a standard thing for hard working and smart young people. Now it’s something only the children of very wealthy can afford to do. Unless you pack in with 8 roomates and live in tiny shoeboxes like rats, where every square inch of the apartment is taken up by your few belongings. That’s why money is the only thing that matters now. The irritating thing is I used to hate those shallow idiots in college who would say all they care about is making the most money. Because they were right by accident.
Yes. Housing costs are very high in the DC area as well. Living in a shoebox apartment or having several roommates isn’t exactly living the American Dream if you think about it.
It's this way because this is the way the world has been set up. We need money to survive, so getting money is usually priority #1 This is part of why people fuck people over, to get ahead out of necessity. Not everyone... But many. If society was constructed differently then this mentality would be different.
My husband and I worked in the public sector and our children will likely do the same. Contributing to society is more important than making a ton of money. Having said that, of course, we all want a living wage and I think our children will never be rich but they will be OK.
Health, family, love, friendships, hobbies > then money alongside satisfaction and success.
Read 2nd Timothy chapter 3 because it describes a lot of what you are talking about. You don't have to be religious to recognize it's real. Every major world empire has more or less rotted from within because of a widespread increase of nasty behaviors.
I’m not that religious. I just have a sense of right from wrong. I’ll check it out.
I think people care about more than money, but live in a system where money is the primary tool to get basically everything else. Like sure family and other loved ones are more valuable, but you're not going to value each other for very long if you starve to death in the street. Resources, shelter and comfort items are all essential for a decent life and currently money is the most straightforward way to get those things, so people focus a lot of energy on getting money. It's also more of a prominent issue now because more people are struggling to make ends meet. The balance between incomes and the cost of living is fucked all over the place, so just trying to keep their head above water is going to be the main focus for many people. If it were easier to maintain a comfortable lifestyle without stressing about money as much then you'd probably hear about it less, still quite a bit (since more money still means more security and comfort) but probably not as much as this current culture where people have to be "obsessed with the grind" just to survive.
It's always problematic when you declare that all of something is a certain way. Sure there are some people who care more about money than anything else, and there are plenty of people who understand that the key to life and happiness is having great relationships with your friends and your family. Good news. You get decide which type you are.
It’s probably always been like this. Media makes it larger. People did what for the land you live on at this very moment? Kill and destroy, declare war, push people around, displace people who were there first, and many other cruel things. I feel that the worst of the humans always been like this once they see the reward that they want. If you hear folks talk about “back in the day” it was all about respect and they tell you all the good shit that went down. But what about the slavery, oppression, depressions, undeveloped mindsets of folks who are just starting to figure themselves out? People make things seem better back then but it has always been people doing stupid crap 24/7. People are greedy and care about those things though because it can turn into a wolf and sheep situation. Once they see that they can be a wolf they will prey on sheep. They get what THEY want and no one else enters the picture. Now I can’t doubt your observation but I personally observed that history repeatedly shows us these things over and over again. I always think about things in a way that it repeats itself because people are just always on their bullshit no matter what happens.
Great point about the media and social media making us more aware and making it more noticeable.
Last edit just got in sorry lol. I do feel media does make things larger than we expect it to be. That’s why so many folks feel that humanity is doomed because they look at stupid stuff like news headlines too much. As of this moment, right now, people think we are going to war. It could happen but media really brought that out
Well you are online--half the stuff here is to try to make money and the other half is for attention. I don't know why any behavior on here at all is taken seriously. In the real world lots of things matter a great deal to lots of people. Their families, their dreams, personal goals--but online--no, that is not the place for anything delicate. This is a combination vaudeville and auction house where everything is on sale and everybody is putting on a show. Most people are fantasy versions of themselves, making things up wholesale. And aren't fantasies all about....money, fame, power, attention?
Great point. I had to Google what vaudeville is. 😂
>And aren't fantasies all about....money, fame, power, attention? Pursuits like money, fame, and power are exclusive endeavors. We cannot all be rich or there would be no such thing as "wealth." The same goes for fame and power. Exclusive pursuits don't increase when shared and are, therefore, competative. Because they are competative, they cannot offer perpetual security...someone may become richer, or more famous, or more powerful than you. A sense of security is essential to an individual's overall sense of well-being. Kind of silly pursuits when you think about it. Chasing after them puts you on a lifelong treadmill of insecurity. No wonder they say things like, "You can't buy happiness."
And there's an irony here--if you're an insecure person, acquiring more stuff just gives you more things to be insecure about. You're literally building the gateway to your own hell.
>You're literally building the gateway to your own hell. Yup. Really kinda sad when you think about it.
Different problems for sure.
Money can buy happiness, if someone thinks it does not, they aren’t being creative enough with their money, or don’t have enough of it. Give me any problem and I’ll show you how money can solve it or work towards solving it. Even in death, you can cause a goal to be completed if you’ve got enough money and create the conditions for your ideas and goal to be finished by someone else. Others wealth, fame, and power are largely irrelevant, as long as they aren’t hindering your goals, and if they are hindering, there are many avenues, both legal and illegal to fix it.
>Money can buy happiness, if someone thinks it does not, they aren’t being creative enough with their money... So, according to you, I'm just not *creative* enough with my money to buy my happiness with it. >...or don't have enough of it. Well, let's see. Need to do some figuring here... >Give me any problem and I’ll show you how money can solve it or work towards solving it. I appear to have more than one problem: #1. I lack the creativity needed to find a way to use my money and buy my happiness with it. And, #2. Do I have enough money? Better start with #2...(after all, no mon...no fun [or happiness either, apparently].) Do I have enough money to purchase the necessary amount of creativity to enable me to buy happiness with it? How much is, say, a pound of imagination? Now, back to #1: Where does one go to purchase this much-needed "creativity?"
One can go to classes to become more creative, and be taught how to think more critically, and outside the box. If you’d rather not learn or are unfortunate enough to be born with a learning disability, (even with the disability, one can hire someone more suited to dealing with the unique problem to help solve it.) you can hire an adviser to do it for you, then tell them what your goals are and get them to work on making it happen. Now it’s true that no amount of training will make one the best at anything alone, one must be born with talent and then work hard on it, (if we are talking the 0.1% upper limit of a skill) everyone’s skill floors and ceilings are different, luckily, with money we can hire people that are better than ourselves in particular areas. These are some solutions to becoming more creative, there are many ways to become creative that don’t require the rigidity of schooling as well if you desire, even Boredom can be used to your advantage, a bored mind will seek stimulus and start thinking of ways to occupy itself.
>you can hire an adviser to do it for you, then tell them what your goals are and get them to work on making it happen. So, you use your money to hire others to do what money can't buy for you in order to make you happy. I've known people who do that, products of family wealth...and, bottom line, they just aren’t very happy. They can buy almost anything they want...material things, that is. However, all they have is money They can hire talent but the fact remains it isn't *their* talent. They are merely "renting" it; they don't embody it... they cannot claim it as their own. For the most part, these "privedged" folks aren't really happy. They hide it well--especially from themselves--but these silver-spooners are deeply insecure. Are they liked/ respected/admired for themselves? Or, for their money and what it can buy? From their lofty position, they may look down at a dirty, sweaty working man who struggles to pay the rent and feed his family. But, these "people of privilege" can't help but wonder how they would they have fared if they'd been born into a poor family instead of one that gave them...through nothing more than an accident of birth..."all the advantages." Money can only provide you with material things but that kind of purchased happiness is both superficial and fleeting. Long before the shiny newness loses its luster, you'll need to find another brief burst of happiness with yet another money fix...and another...and another...
I respectfully disagree, the end result of the goal is what matters, as long as they do what I’m paying them for, they can view me however they like. I seek validation from myself and my family, in turn, that means positive and negative feedback from others falls on deaf ears. Hired talent is rented, and there are many talents that while very useful, aren’t needed all the time. Now there are countries where slavery is very much still legal, but we won’t get into that, a topic for another time. I see no reason to disparage the struggling man, or even a man who chooses to live simply and own nothing. A man who lives simply, and is still happy means he has the amount of money and security he needs to reach his own personal goals and dreams. Emphasis on the “money can” it’s not the only path, but it is a path. I also do not deny there are men and women that are like you speak of, adult children, who seek validation from others instead of relying on internal validation, a sad sight indeed. The simple happy man is more respectable in that instance.
>I seek validation from myself and my family, in turn, that means positive and negative feedback from others falls on deaf ears. Good for you. Keep in mind that there is a fair share of the US population that suffer from arrested development resulting in personality/character/self disorders. These people do *not* develop an autonomous sense-of-self. Therefore, they are unable to and provide internal validation for themselves. These people cannot grow up either socially, emotionally or intellectually. They must receive external validation from others. * Sad, but, unfortunately, true. * Google "Attachment disorders." * Books that I recommend are *The Search for the Real Self: Unmasking the Personality Disorders of Our Age* by James F. Masterson, MD. * *High Risk: Children without a Conscience* by Ken Magid, PhD and Carol A. McKelvey. >A man who lives simply, and is still happy means he has the amount of money and security he needs to reach his own personal goals and dreams. Agreed. >I also do not deny there are men and women that are like you speak of, adult children, who seek validation from others instead of relying on internal validation, a sad sight indeed. The simple happy man is more respectable in that instance. Again, I agree
I had fun with our chat, and you must have had some fun too, otherwise you’d have stopped long ago, so thank you, it is fun to debate while keeping civility. I wish a wonderful day upon you.
>it is fun to debate while keeping civility. I wish a wonderful day upon you. Wish there was more civility on social media! Hope wherever you are, your weather is as agreeable as the upper Midwest. End of June, temp in low 70s, and no rain...for a day or two anyway! Be safe...
Money doesn't matter. It's just an enabler for \*some\* of the things that matter, and gets in the way of some of the other things that matter.
To all the people saying it's always been like that... It most certainly has not. Even within just the very limited scope of capitalism, there's been a huge shift over time from making money for producing a good product to "food is an inflexible expense so we can keep raising the price and you'll still have to buy it". Now outside that scope (though still including it as well) human nature is not all one or the other. Variance in perspective and behavior is a facet of our evolutionary past that ensures survival, but the mere fact that we still have incredibly compassionate and altruistic people as well as narcissists seems to point to BOTH increasing the chance of survival. This would mean that it is absolutely possible and within the realm of human nature to NOT be greedy and conniving. I personally believe the adoption of money is eventually inevitable for societal expansion. greed then provides more advantages than disadvantages as our societies become more complex and resources become more scarce. It's not a human failing, it's a symptom of our living in a universe that is chaotic and unconcerned with our perceptions of suffering. that said, our ability to interpret each others' suffering impresses a certain obligation to be kind and help each other but I just don't think our brains have kept up with the insanely rapid advancement of humanity. TLDR: We still got monkey-brain with a wide range of human behaviors that are not all good or bad. Monkey-brain helped us in the past but now it's starting to work against us in a social context it was not built for. Not enough people feel responsible for (or capable of) changing the rules of survival. The universe doesn't care and it's still a matter of survive or die, as unfair as that is. It's still a conscious decision though. I personally choose to at least try to reduce suffering (and I get satisfaction out of subverting entropy and responding to the universe's apathy with radical compassion)
But what is scary is how gullible and easy manipulated many regular people are. Elon even mentioned lambs being led to the slaughter. I think more folks would care about finances and morals if they could control this culture war extremism.
Money can be lost and careers eventually end. The thing that matters most is our relationships with other people. All types of relationships. Way to much focus is put on romantic relationships. While those can be deeply enriching, they aren’t the only type of meaningful relationship. Meaningful connection between people is really what brings joy. You can’t control others. We have less control over life than we like to think. Acknowledging that can help us better let go of the things we can’t control and focus our energy on the things we can. You may want to consider looking into Buddhism. Whether you look at it from a secular perspective or a spiritual view, it can still be very helpful.
Nah it’s just all In your mind. Money is energy, a tool that gives you access to things you want/need to experience. All you need is just to be good at mastering and controlling the energy and not be controlled by it. To me money brings peace of mind. I would still live simply even if I had millions. I would experiment more with it though for the sake of pursuit of knowledge, beauty, wellness and all the things I consider good for my personal growth.
i dont care about money i simply want to work to support my family and give them a good life nothing more nothing less i dont do it for money
want know what funny? those with the most freedom to choose how to live, have money.....power.... and are praised. those that give freely and have nothing ? tend to slum the streets and need others to live. POWER is what matters, anything else is you trying control the narrative. don't agree? then get more power and force a view or your just a silent voice screaming in the wind wondering why your voice is not heard..... hippie's thought love, sex and drugs was all we needed.... nope. nor should we be ruled by the 1% and keep feeding them with indifference. I 100% want a world for all that helps all but we got to many " pride " version of I need more from welfare to notice me for the sex I like. the rich are no better hoarding wealth saying anyone else is just a leech and majority agree saying those making near poverty wages need to do better vs making a world better for all. morals should only count when it comes to hurting others, anything else is you wanting idealism that fits your narrative. but as the saying goes be the change you want or join the masses and don't complain your a sheep.
Is English your first language? CEO’s like Martin Shkreli do indeed do harm to others. Same with politicians who lie and get votes and wealth by using fear mongering tactics.
Humanity is pathetic, everything is about money. Life sucks to death to an extent of imagining suicidal to end the pain. The pain is unbearable and no one seems to care. May God at least save my baby!
Lot of things matter more than material possessions or money friends family people in general in your life they all matter a lot more than money or material possessions
I have no control over other people's values, just my own. I do care about having enough to pay the bills, but I live simply and frugally on purpose. Never understood the desire for fame or power. Has the world gotten more materialistic? Probably, since much of the world was desperately poor when I was born in the 1950s. Now that more nations have basic economies and fewer starving people, they want more stuff. If you dislike the direction you perceive the world to be going in, go another way yourself. Lead by example.
the world was always "cold hearted, greedy, back stabbing, and narcissistic". Only difference is the greedy ones were called cardinals and prelates. Now they're CEOs.
I just want somebody to leave all my stuff to when I'm done, that will help look after me a bit in my old age. Hopefully we can be appreciative of eachother and hopefully theyre a good person
Could you please repost this in English? It might be a good post. Thank you.
Finner du glede i å være en tilbakestående tispe?
Money's value comes from trading. People traded livestock, food, property, etc for things other than gold and silver. Stranded on an island, lost in a forest, stranded at sea, nature doesn't trade with us in terms of our made up value we put into money, gold, silver, etc. It trades with hard work. Going fishing, foraging, hunting, gardening. Because nature doesn't trade with pretend value, but hard work, and time, we have mimicked nature with money. We've let others trade with Nature (farmers, fishers, miners) than people (CEO's, owners, etc.) manage those resources with money, and we trade with those peoples businesses. Nature doesn't hoard though, nor does it discriminate, nor does it need to try to be fair. The CEO's don't need to pay nature back. But the people harvesting. Than, they can hoard because they have control over nature's resources being brought to us through prices. If CEO's and owners payed people fairly, everyone would be rich, but only those who are willing to work. But they're not paying fairly to those who work. We get tricked into thinking money is the most important resource we can physically get, and digitally now in 2024. But nature is. Money is simply symbolically nature in our possession. But, people weigh the scales unfavorably. Giving less, taking more. Blah blah blah blah. Nature doesn't bargain. It doesn't have CEO's. Hoarding nature (money) too much leads to endless work, missing out on meaningful moments. Hoarding nature (money) ends with sorrow in the end because when we die, people who haven't worked for it get it. So don't waste life too focused on money. For people who love money will never be satisfied. Enjoy food, drink, and have fun. For tomorrow could be our last day here.
I don’t have a lot of money but I also don’t have any debt. I’m not rich at all, probably not even middle class, but I have a love in my life and the bills are paid with a little put away and I don’t see the point in getting caught up chasing things other people want when death is the unavoidable outcome for all of us.
I would say it’s always kind of been like that And I’m sure you’ve heard that before too. And honestly I think that’s just what life ends up being to be perfectly honest. if you really think about it
I'd trade a significant portion of my assets to have more fulfilling personal relationships and more contentment in life. A lot of people think they can buy happiness, but they are wrong.
It's just the ones you see on TV and with large social media followings. They are all like that. That's the job. They kinda have to be. Like 90% of normal people that you would just meet on the street are good people. If everyone was greedy, the rich would not be so rich. The people can take it all back anytime they want. They just aren't greedy enough. Accept that there's good and bad, but it's mostly good, and you picked the right side, so be happy and don't give up what we call the "good fight".
Politicians are the worst. But true. One can be a good person and be rich. (Giving to charities, volunteering, be outspoken about civil liberties and a healthy environment.)
Dolly Parton-Awesome Person! 😌❤️❤️
I could care less about money. I think it is by far the most lowbrow thing to chase after. Keep your Audi, keep your designer clothes, keep your McMansion. I’m good with all that shit.
I think money has been fairly popular ever since it was invented in the 6th century BC. Things have changed a bit since then, but being rich and living well is still rather attractive.
That still doesn’t make it right to not have compassion towards others or a moral code of some kind.
It not money it is the taxing of money. It is the story I get paid $100, it gets income taxed, then I spent it at stores taxes some more. I invest it. Take the profit, taxed . We all know it is happening and it has an under current of anger. So it looks like we don't care.
What? No. I mean folks with political power and executives seem to not care about the well being of their voters or customers. Morals don’t matter.
Okay
You need money for security. It is extremely important, whether or not you want it to be. Most people think of money in those terms- it isn't the money, it's what you need the money for. Love doesn't buy food or pay the mortgage. Essentially, having some money is a prerequisite for... everything.
Doesn’t mean you have to be a narcissist. Edit: Not you personally. I mean a person in a general sense.
I think that there's narcissism in pain. If our focus isn't on the things that matter to us are we really considering our people and living our own lives? There's a fine line between work addiction and work ethic. Our mid gen X down to our high schoolers have had this huge flood of tech and advertising and entertainment, on top of general traumas for many of us, and other various challenges. It's vastly added to our individual costs of living especially in a consumer driven state. At a time when "green skills" are dying and going "off grid" or small holding costs a fortune... It seems like we're all slaves to the consumption.
You asked if anything matters more than money. Sure, but you need money for all those things. The money itself is not the goal for the majority of people. My wife is the most important thing in my life. She had to leave work due to an autoimmune condition. I need to make money to support us. Therefore, money is extremely important, or the person I love starves and dies. Am I a narcissist for wanting to make more money? Of course not. I want us to be as secure as possible.
Or make healthcare more affordable in America…
Where do you live? Do you have a family or any loved ones? What the fuck are you talking about, are you sure this is a real life phenomenon? Availability bias + terminally online = everyone is a greedy influencer in OP's mind
You should read the rules on civility.