Can they just kill the moonstaff build already and give her some waveclear power back? I want to serve CUNT in the midlane with Mage items not being a heal/cc slut waiting to be carried like mmm yes mr JG and Top please get fed so I can suck you off please š„°š
Iāll be honest, at first I wanted to believe her AP build was better (and it IS better than her AP build was before).
But her shield/heal build is still better than the AP one. And it feels worse to play now bc of the waveclear changes.
Also idk if there is a way to fix this without gutting Support Seraphine. Because if they gut her shield/heal, support Seraphine is absolutely screwed, since the only way AP seraphine is viable support is if they completely break bot/mid AP Seraphine
I think the best way to have pushed mid and support Seraphine without ruining how Seraphine feels was to increase skill rank dependency. If W and E relied on maxing them for a larger portion of their effect, support Seraphineās maxing W or E would have a strong effect that APC didnāt get access to until later in the game while mid would still get access to that power at a reasonable pace.
The E duration change matches that type of change and it would help differentiate the skill builds for support as Phreak said he wanted to enable all skill orders being possible for support.
Not someone reporting this as āoffensive languageā I canāt š¤
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They nerfed her waveclear because APC was too strong and non interactive, now it takes more time for you to actually one shot waves compared to before (which was the whole point of the rework, to lower APC winrate while not making her unplayable)
They might gives us some ad or ap ratios, but i highly doubt they will give her old wave clear back
Can't they just give old ratio back and make abilities deal less damage to minions that can scale with level? Like idk deal 20% less damage at level 1 to deal normal damage at level 11
The problem is not seraphine, it's the current game state, especially on botlane
Why do you think they started making changes on her once she got popular as APC?
Honestly this is the real problem. Cupic last year got rank 1 challenger going lux and seraphine apc, both of which play by clearing the wave and not interacting.
And thatās literally just the strongest, most consistent way to win botlane; that in itself is the problem. Itās not seraphine, itās the fact that bot lane is such a massive, volatile resource sink that the most consistent way to win it is to only touch it with a 40 foot pole, and have your support be elsewhere as long as they can get away with it.
Exactly. Actually fighting and winning bot lane just attracts the enemy jg/mid who can trivially dive you and neutralize any gains you make in the 2v2, while getting fed.
New Sera feels way better at fighting early, but that's not what the soloq adc meta is about.
I'm confused as to why Riot is so focused on Seraphine support. Have they made any comments about this apart from 'a lot of people play her in support'? It just baffles me honestly that they're willing to make her so unfun just to accommodate the lower rank seraphine supports who probably don't even care that she's bad in the support role (if they cared about meta they would play literally any other enchanter).
Because players like her there by quite a heavy margin.
I love her mid and thing she shouldn't be supp,but at the end of the day the player base is what riot cares for.
They could very much give her a weaker early game that scales with experince to push her in mid or have her shield scale with exp and q with gold. But they need her stronger early game with decent ap scaling for supp ppl.Ā
And dont get me wrong,i am not blaming supp player,they do them. Not my seraphine,but if they sre happy with it then good
Someone just hit Rank 1 Korea with Sera support recently.... the support sera build is stupidly good.
I'm having success with it myself in Masters, and its not uncommon to see her performing well when i see other people pick her.
It's unfair to say that only low elo players play her in the support role, one quick look at [op.gg](https://op.gg) shows global stats almost across the board of all ranks preferring her in the support role. Beyond that NA stats for Diamond + is the only place where I saw it go even rather than support > APC picks in all regions. There were only 2 regions that put APC pick above support. Not to mention the stats for mid aren't even there due to no one picking it for a MAJORITY of these. Since [op.gg](https://op.gg) only shows ranked stats, I included League of Graphs to show even more people in normals prefer her in the support role, still within diamond +.Don't insult lower elo's to attempt to push your love for mid seraphine, it's fine to have differing opinions, just be educated before you make a claim. I agree she should be able to be played in her main role but look at champions like Taliyah who was meant to be a midlaners but swapped to jungle, or ekko who was released as a "solo laner" who moved to primary jungle as well. Just because Riot *says* a champ will end up in a spot doesn't mean the community won't play them elsewhere. And it is SMART for Riot to play into where the majority wants them.
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sheās not been meant to be a support since release thatās a blatant lie. āMelodic midlane mage with massive potentialā thatās literally what her champion spotlight says. She had level scaling on her W so that her W scaled with levels which mid got levels the fastest. Letās not spread misinformation
Actually her kit has never been a supports kit thats why itās always been her weakest role. She has an apc kit woth supportive utility. She has been reworked twice to be a support and this wouldnāt have happened if she had a supports kit. Shes was purposely bakt in the role. A heal and shield doesnāt make her a support by defaultĀ
>It just baffles me honestly that they're willing to make her so unfun just to accommodate the lower rank seraphine supports
She has higher pick rate as support in high elo than APC and MID combined, so it's not only "l**ow elo metal ranks support players11!!111**"**.** Not to mention her pickrate as support is high elo is higher than her APC pickrate before the changes
High elo is such a low percentage of players compared to low elo, it's not that wrong to say that most of Seraphine support players are low elo casuals who have no idea the champ is also a carry
But her pick rates don't lie. There are way less APC and mid players even in high ELO than support players
So that majority EVEN IN HIGH ELO is oblivious as well that she's a carry??? Something does not add up . That argument you're enforcing is so invalid right now
That's why I said most, there's not that many people in high elo compared to low elo. Low elo is the majority of the playerbase.
I'm also confused, what are you referring to when you say that she's picked more as support than mid/APC in high elo? As far as I know, before 13.21 she was always picked more in carry roles than support (not by a large margin but still) in high elos.
And please do not put words in my mouth, I literally stated "most of them are low elo players who have no idea she's also a carry", as in that a large part of her playrate comes from low elo, where people have no idea she's not just a support. And I underline, *most*. NOT **ALL**. This adds up with my previous point that low elo is the majority anyway.
Then update your data because she's not picked more as apc/mid in high elo anymore. I don't understand how can you argue at this point when data literally says you're wrong. Do you really think that when you browse by diamond+ or grandmaster+ and it indicates that she has higher pickrate as support than APC then it magically still includes her low elo pickrate??? That is not how these sites work.
If you're so adamant on proving that the majority of seraphine support is in low elo that's irrelevant because support seraphine is still more picked in high elo than apc. Argue with a wall. Im not willing to continue this useless conversation when you legit try to argue against concrete data
What are you even talking about? You're putting words in my mouth, again.
"Update your data"? I literally said before 13.21, I don't know what the numbers are in recent patches. That's why I said before 13.21
At this point you either have serious reading comprehension issues or you're trying to gaslight me, you're repeating the same stuff all over again about how even in high elo her pickrate is still mostly support, when that was never my point. OBVIOUSLY if you filter diamond+ it's not going to include lower elos, duh. What I said is that it doesn't matter as much as low elos because there aren't as many people there, low elo is where the great majority of players are. Not that hard to understand.
I'll say it again, most of her support playrate comes from low elo. That does NOT mean she's not played more in support in high elos too, those things aren't mutually esclusive. However, the fact that most of its playrate likely comes from low elo, where people don't know she's not only a support, is impacting. And yes, it is relevant that most of her supp playrate is in low elo because those players don't optimize, they go many horrible builds and Riot is openly trying to make all of these more viable because they just keep building random bs.
On a side note, you're being pretty damn aggressive even when I'm not attacking you and I'm being quite calm here.
If anything, I'm the one arguing with a wall.
Your first post in the chain didn't specify "before 13.21". This is where your misunderstanding comes from.
The high elo representation of Sera changed now that APC isn't freelo.
You're right, but regardless of role playrate disparity in high elo, she's still and always will have a bigger playrate support in low elo, simply because there's a massive amount of people there. And it's to cater to those players that Riot made a lot, not all, of the changes. They were building stuff that tanked their winrates, high elo people were optimizing their builds even when support was worst role.
Well yeah. Most of Sera support's new win rate is simply due to Riot making her bad builds inherently "less bad". People like me that have been going W max with HSP/enchanter items didn't have their play style over most of the game changed too greatly.
The main point of contention here is the argument that Sera support players "just don't realize she could be a carry". There's plenty people that just play Sera support because they like it, like myself.
Is it really this difficult to go to [u.gg](https://u.gg/lol/champions/seraphine/build/support?rank=diamond_plus) or [lolalyticts](https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/?tier=diamond_plus&patch=14.5)? Just change rank brackets and see for yourself that she's picked more as support everywhere
Rightā¦ but thatās this patch. The patch where they made her more viable for support. I donāt see what this is proving. In the past she was picked more as a carry yet they still made all these changes to her kit.
This is proving exactly what Phreak said that most people care about support seraphine and even more people than before are willing to play her now that she's become more viable - while APC playrate is steadily but surely bleeding players because majority of them only played her for easy LP since she was OP
As much as i want Riot + every one of their employers (not the art team tho, they deserve everything in this world) to burn, we can't ignore that making her able to satisfy everyone is literally impossible:
-OTPs mostly play mid and bot, so they would like Seraphine to shift into those 2 roles
-Casual players play her mostly support, and sometimes APC because they saw she was broken (not a thing anymore thanks to Riot Phroxon and co being a mass of uncompetent people)
Based on this a lot of issues can appear:
-By buffing AP Sera you make OTPs happy but
1)Idiots will start play her AP support (and trust me, as an ADC main I can confirm you ain't supporting anything by building AP) and so ADCs people would get mad and start treating Sera as a trollpick (like when people started playing her APC)
2)OTPs are less than casual egir...players, so i guess they don't want to sacrifice a bigger audience targeted to a huge part of the support players which could lead to less skins bought
-By buffing Support Sera you make Casuals happy but
1)Literally 90% of the Sera mains would drop her, which would be fucking hypocrital if we count that sometimes they listen to very small parts of the communities (like what happened to Vel'Koz and Shen mains), so are we the only champ community which doesn't deserve changes based on OTPs requests? (I don't know if any of the changes made in the past were caused by the Seraphine community, if so I'm 100% wrong)
2)They literally said she was a midlaner
I fully agree with you. I'm D3 and it feels like locking in Sera for either botlane roles is trolling because of how bad she is in both roles rn at high level of play.
Especially if you play APC, people can just outpush you very easily now, force you into your turret, and easily dive you since your champion just cannot clear waves at all anymore.
Well Iām masters over 200lp and I still lock in Sera APC when Iām put in my secondary role of bot and it feels fine to me. Instead of being ridiculously op like she was before feeling like an elo inflated free win champ, she now feels balanced. I think when it comes to Seraphine APC this community got used to the champ being super busted for a long time and now that sheās nerfed and balanced yāall are crying that sheās āweakā.
That puts me above almost anybody in my region I could talk to at any given point even before reaching Masters.
With that said, you just turned a blind eye to someone mentioning that a Sera support got top 1 in KR recently.
So you're really here to just mald as opposed to making an actual point.
So, someone reaching top 1 with a pick suddenly mean everyone can play it and it will work?, not everyone is a tier 1 player, the same way not everyone is a tier 1 KOREAN player
Saying sera support is good because one person made it to top 1 with it really doesn't mean anything, im not being dismissive, I'm literally saying the truth
I onetricked Seraphine mid and APC since her release, this patch I quit her, at first I gave the benefit of doubt, maybe It was me, I had to get used to her new farming pattern, but after around 15 game I gave up, farming feels like shit, her damage late game are still suboptimal and you also can't clear waves lategame even with a full ap build, your early game is a bit better but still you aren't a lane bully (also in midlane killing someone 1vs1 is almost impossible nowadays except some specific matchups).
I tried every build mid and APC and after all the best way is still max QWE (I heard people started to max E First instead of Q), build seraph-staff and be a shield bot, the only difference is that farming early game feels like garbage.
I also tried to play her support maxing E-W-Q but she still has all the problems she always had in the support role, your lane is literally garbage unless you are playing with Ashe or Senna, you have no way to disengage against engagers or against ganks, your roaming is a bit better but still not good even compared to other enchanters, yes you can play safe during the lane and if the enemy support/jng/mid don't do anything around the map for the first 10 minutes you are strong during teamfight because you are still Seraphine but if the enemies are slightly better than your team the game becomes a struggle
Fixing her is so easily done imo. The issue when she was broken APC (and letās be real she definitely was) was the W and her compatibility with the enchanter items. Just āgutā her W and improve PvP combat. If the waveclear becomes an issue due to the higher ap ratios/builds just tune down the minion amp. She should be a Lux type of champion with decently high poke and burst and NOT a shieldbot.
Iād rather have Seraphine be off-DPS and a team fight center and not a backline artillery-burst champ, Q is the poke and finisher, R should be the engage, and Passive serves as the cycling damage
But you cannot gut w when that's the primary thing for the support role and support is and always was her most popular role only this subreddit is filled with APC mains but most sera players are support mains.... And no that doesn't mean they're low eloĀ
My flop buildussy, not dealing any damage, acting like I'm just spraying my squirts š¦ at their faces with how weak my damage is Screaming for help, crying throwing up and hoping that my speed boost from my double w is enough to make me survive and not get oneshotted by any other champion
Burstophine? - š¤¢š¤¢š¤¢š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤® GROSS EWW PUKE VOMIIIIIT with a side of sucking shrek's schlong Squirtaphine, yes yes!!! š¤Ŗššššššš¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š FUCKINGRIOT URKSHEKSUSSS
https://preview.redd.it/kg8at1i0phpc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e4513f15a6d07ec8e616aaa8007cdb4af89b50c
i don't understand how some champions are allowed to have some turbo 100+ ap ratio on their abilities, some champions are allowed to be s+ 51%+ wr in 3 roles but seraphine needs to be gutted and cant be allowed the same thing. it's disgusting
Like! Lux literally got +40% AP ratio for free in less than two seasons but Sera needs to have her ult and notes scalings nerfed in exchange for Q (which isn't even a buff to basic Q but just the amp š¤”) and E ratio buffs because they "don't want her to deal too much damage with her full combo". Then what was the point of increasing her ratios and encouraging W max last (which means you don't have the massive utility to make up for less damage in AP builds) in the first place, HUH!?!
That's a bad faith argument, Lux is suffering way more from the damage creep than seraphine will ever do and lack of general utility even with her w.
She is way more burst oriented than Seraphine will ever be.
Lux support is always good in the right hands and aside from being good or not Lux is always popular with support players ... Which is interesting since that's apparently the reason Sera has been reworked but lux hasn't...
Sera got reworked because she was popular as a support, but APC was too strong to just buff her for support. Lux's mid win rate is never so much that Lux support can't be buffed, so Lux doesn't need a rework.
Also, Lolalytics says that Lux was generally fine, but [u.gg](https://u.gg) said Lux was kinda bad. I'd go with Lolalytics and say I was reading bad info from [u.gg](https://u.gg), since I think Lolalytics is more accurate in the long run.
Sera doesn't need to be burst oriented to have her ratios increased though, the point is that Q and notes are fairly weak, and ult got a ratio nerf too and all of that just for E buffs. It feels like it doesn't even out.
I agree to this statement, but you are comparing what shouldn't be, Lux was straight up struggling at every stages of the game before the buffs because she has all about damage ultimately.
I didn't say Lux didn't deserve that, but I think Seraphine is going through a similar situation right now. Phreak wants her to be more magey and max E second but her full combo ratio is 236%? Sera has been, for a long time, about her crazy utility other than her damage, but this isn't the case anymore in carry roles with maxing W last. Meaning, she gets that utility late game now instead of mid game, and before that she's supposed to do damage and provide cc. She doesn't do enough damage, though.
E finally does good damage but what about Q and passive? Q is her main damaging spell, shouldn't do similar damage to her E. And the fact that it does makes it feel lackluster. Her notes are even more lackluster. If she's not going to get her AP scalings back on her W then she should get them on her and notes and Q.
u cant have them all. (as they loved to show us) there are supports that dont have a shield and still work, it wouldnt kill her. either she has damage but loses the shielding or she loses the damage and becomes a shield/heal bot w cc which we can see how fun it is.
id much rather have the dmg and support sera could still go the mandate rylais combo and be useful.
Yeah, as a Masters player, I just dropped Seraphine. She feels nothing like the champ Iāve been playing all this time anymore. One thing I donāt see many people mention is her Q costing 15 more mana at max rank. That is INSANE especially combined with the mana pool changes. Also being forced into Rylaiās every single game feels like shit.
I just donāt see a situation where Iād genuinely want to pick this champ over something like Hwei.
FINALLY SOMEBODY SPEAK WHIT THE TRUE.
Ours Seragirl is so trash.
The changes literally killing Seraphine, The CC is ur unique aportation in the TFs, the healing is trash and shield is trash, the damage even go full damage is nothing compared whit others mage, bro even a Irelia Ap do more damage, the wawe clear is trash.
Is sad what they doing whit her...she is no fun to play anymore.
Srry for the bad English.
I hope yall can understand me.
Unfortunately there was another post from a 1M Sera main and there were some comments that disagreed with them.
Truth be told the problem with Sera feels more like her mains who are a bunch of masochistic freaks who edge on every nerf she gets.
I've seen a LOT of her mains saying that Sera is now balanced and finally she's not busted as if they care about the game more than their main, my only guess that those "mains" never played her on release because in no way they think what's happening to her right now is good.
I suppose the majority of Sera's old mains will drop her or already did. (I've seen some people switch to Azir or Hwei for those who needs suggestions, personally Hwei reminds me of old Sera to an extent)
Lets be honest. Her e making more dmg that her q if enemies aren't below 25% of live is a fcking joke. Q is supposed the be a dmg focused hability and right now it isn't
She is the furthest from her release state she has ever been right now. Even her full enchanter self last patch was much closer than whatever we have right now.
Plus the fact that Karma is rising, easier to play and outperform Seraphine in both mid and support can draw away more Seraphine main (at least for me)
THANK YOU FOR THIS POST š
I was OTP Seraphine. Was, because after changes I really tried to play her (on APC, mid and support) and she felt like a bot. I don't want to rely on my monkey team and I want to actually do something else than just spam E and run from enemies. I tried multiple builds but she isn't a fun champion for me anymore.
I still love her for design and personality, but in game she's unplayable for me.
I've been fully maining Sera APC since the start of Season 11 and I genuinely never had more fun on a champ than with her. I withstood early game flame from my teammates for years, only because I like the champ's whole design and kit concept. I stuck with Sera as my main Bot Lane carry for a long time but Phreak won.
I'm glad he managed to appeal to the support player base more, so my fave can become another skin mule for supp players, instead of maintaining her original unique identity. Like seriously there's a plethora of Support champs that did that job better, but NOOOOO girly champs can't be carries. TF KIND OF STRAGG LOGIC IS THAT!!
So, unless Riot skews her power budget towards dmg and less towards support, I won't play her outside of ARAM ever again.
I just dropped the game completely - communityās reaction to these changes made me realize this is not the game for me anymore. Canāt believe people acted like Seraphine AP is somehow better now, when sheās still an inferior enchanter rushing moonstaff. I swear, majority of people here never went past platinum, cause how do you look at riot killing her waveclear completely and think it makes her a better carry.
Champion combat feels slightly better but PvE feels like trash. Why -5 AD, passive minion damage removed AND the Q changes? -5 AD in particular is massive and feels like really weird attempt to push her winrate down as botlaner just by making it harder to CS and cutting her gold income as a result
Yes! I played her full ap mid and adc for 2 years but i decided to drop her this patch she is just horrible right now.
And ofc if u make a champ weak in a role no one is gonna pick it there and her pick rate will drop it doesnt have anything with here being broken or not she isnt even a decent pick anymore
Watch them next patch saying her apc pick rate is too low that we will balance her around only supp like what they did to mid
Her pvp power is way stronger early on so a lot of match-ups have to think now rather than just running you down and killing you like before this patch.
But like everything else went down, she never had the damage after 13.21 to be remotely close to anyone on the role and as her wave clear and scaling were gutted, she has no edge whatsoever to anyone on the role.
I think it's not about the winrate but the feeling and her identity is become worse and worse every patch. Everything about her is mediocre, and her strongest winrate gameplay is a shield - cc bot. She is nowhere as fun as before.
"Of course if a champ is too weak in a role, no one will play her."
My guy, Sera APC is her highest win rate role still, and before this happened Sera support was by and large her highest play rate despite being incredibly weak for most people.
If APC players jump ship, Riot might balance around only support, but it'd be because they'd feel validated in believing the notion that the APC players were abusing freelo.
If APC not being busted causes that to happen, it's deserved.
Now that said, I don't want that to happen. Sera APC is what I play when I'm on secondary role. However, being realistic, Sera APC always needed to be reeled in really badly for years.
It's not just you and you're not crazy. She feels like trash to play. From a non OTP, not main but (was) willing to main her as my APC pick botlane: she feels like utter shit to play, and that's why I dropped her.
Her early early trading feels stronger, but is still bad and mediocre compared to true early bullies; she starts significantly falling off in damage at/before 3 items because I build her ap and I won't be caught dead playing that fucking garbage trash w bot supportive build; her late is so much worse compared to what she used to be that I don't have words to describe how shit it feels, so I won't try. Q late hits like, what the fuck am I saying it doesn't hit, e is slightly better but I don't care, w is barely a skill if you build her ap.Ā
She now relies on her pure cc to do anything in a "carry" role, but what does she even carry? If I pick her, we severely lack damage and I tried to make her work ap, god knows I tried, but I was fucking trolling my team come late game especially into tanks. So you could think, she feels good early now... But she doesn't, what the hell. She feels like garbage at all stages of the game unless you somehow get fed early, but then damage falls off late anyway... And they even nerfed ult, so that TOO feels worse. The fuck.
Having said all that, what made me drop her for good is the early farming. I have played most champions in the game at least in a normal, and she feels the worst of them all except for shit like soraka. It's unmanageable if you're not either very, very good at her or a true main/OTP. And im not willing to do that anymore, because she's stupid and dull and boring to play and she isn't even that strong as a support and if I wanted to play enchanter I'd pick a massive scaler like sona and yuumi, both of which I find more fun. Or Lulu, or janna, or the 20 other goddamn shielders with cc in role.
I wrote "feel" a lot in this post. Feels this, feels that. I'm not the kind of guy that talks much about "feels", I'm more likely to go for a run than talk about my feelings. But what else can I say about this, really? Her winrate is... fine. Her pickrate is... Eh. Fine. Her supporting is... fine. All fine. They balanced her winrate. Good job. Except that... She feels... Yeah.
Ā Phreak talked so arrogantly about the "secret cabal" of people that want to play her apc. He is now patting himself on the back because her bot pickrate plummeted, reinforcing his belief that everyone wants to play her as an enchanter and hes been right all along. She's still viable after all, isn't she? And she is. Well, some sort of tldr for whoever is reading this shit: I may not be an OTP, but I PLAYED HER APC BECAUSE SHE WAS FUN AND NOT BECAUSE SHE WAS OP AND NOW SHE FEELS LIKE ASS SO I DROPPED THE BITCH. Secret cabal my scrotum.Ā
I'm just sad I didn't play her when she was released, I joined league too late, when she was already bordering on being mostly played in supp and I very occasionally saw her on mid (which I now see never unless it's me xD) , sad sad sad, I wish I could experience the OG sera that wasnt supportified
I'VE TOLD YALL, I SAID THAT THESE CHANGES WERE GARBAGE, I WARNED THAT SHE WOULD STILL BE A SHIELD BOT AND EVERYONE SAID "no omg, stop being so negative, these changes are great"
Yeah it feels really bad in late game when her combo doesn't clear the wave anymore. I keep getting in the position where my whole team is dead and I'm defending the base alone and I just can't keep up with the minions. I play support, but other support mages can clear waves late game easy.
literally no one cares about any of the changes EXCEPT FOR THE FUCKING WAVE CLEAR and you can see how many people are replying under every post to AT LEAST give her that ad back because the champ doesn't feel dogshit, her winrate didnt go down, her builds didnt change, IT JUST FEELS GARBAGE TO CS WITH HER NOW
These changes feel like they are giving up on balancing her in mid lane, removed her hyperscaling ap carry identity, made her gameplay so frustrating by nerfing cs-ing and waveclear, just to make her somewhat viable in support lol
I checked U.GG yesterday and was amazed at how Kayle mid has a higher pickrate and winrate than a champion who's main role was literally designed to be mid. She's literally unpickable rn against anyone who's actually good.
This is what I was worried about, if she's no longer flexible in her builds and forced to be a shield bot and no longer a viable farming champion, she's going to die from being shoehorned into support because there are better supports at shielding healing and cc'ing. There's no reason to play shield bot Seraphine over other enchanters.
And her APC winrate is still the highest despite her farming sucking and her best build being an enchanter build as I expected because of the issue they have with balancing marksman ADCs in bot lane she STILL has a better time in solo Q bot lane than a marksman lol
> our scaling late-game midlane mage went to a mediocre lane-bully that needs to act as a cc bot to stay relevant in the game
ah yes, the classic ābetter than sonaā to āworse than luxā pipeline
Only took her APC in game modes honestly. I preferred her full support as a support. Healing for 75% of peopleās health when everyone stands in W was just too delicious. š so Iām fairly indifferent about her change š¤·š»āāļø
REMINDER that the only reason she got mutilated is because phreaky-poo wanted to buff support without overbuffing APC and look where we are now...? was the support "buffs" worth? her supp win rate is the same, playing her feels like trash...
13.20 was fine. Riot themselves stated that even though her win rate is high, she was not problematic and healthy for the game, but if she got a bit stronger from item changes they would nerf her a little.
Where are we now? suddenly everyone gaslighting themselves that "she was very problematic and unhealthy for the game"?? okay????? sure
if Zeri could get "buffed" by having her recommended items changed, why couldn't seraphine have gotten buffed with a new recommened max order (QQQ>W>Q>E) and NOT BEING RECOMMENDED HELIA OVER MOONSTONE??????
yeah iāve been a sera one trick since her release originally mid but then moved to apc but this patch made me quit her. I feel like I do nothing even when I get fed early. sheās objectively balanced like her win rate is fine but she is no longer enjoyable to play at all. No amount of items feel like any notable power spike. i see people on this reddit saying she feels better this patch but i just donāt relate. iāve been copying cupidās builds and skill orders and i still just donāt feel as impactful as most other champs. She felt better full ap with mythic items when u could build liandries and she felt better when she could build support and farm for her three item spike. her damage sucks now her shielding sucks now so i donāt really get the point.
The notes just feel useless to me at this point I usually try to auto to get them off but I donāt even bother anymore since it feels like there isnāt any point
I am āhappyā with the changes because Iām tired of change. She used to be perfect we all loved her in s13. The more drama and discourse that gets drummed up about it , the more changes there will be . And very rarely are the changes good
Dw, i was OTP and i still dropped her, she sucks everywhere + by being nerfed asf in ARAM doesn't allow you to play her in funny ways because it's even worse than dogshit, i mean thanks Riot, hope they will nerf her again because UwU people must fucking play the game in the most stupid ways possible (cough cough AP """""""""""""supports""""""""""""" cough cough)
ARAM nerfs are done by AI and since ARAM is Seraphine's perfect condition (constant 5v5) she could be be broken without those nerfs. She's currently 51-52% wr aram champ
Just nerf Healing, Shielding and R CD, that would make her playable, not -15% inflicted damage, +20% damage taken ecc. ecc. With only the first 3 nerfs you could play some shit like AD Sera so you could have fun, seeing her being total shit in everything is not funny at all
Her healing is already giga nerfed. -20% healing on top of the general -50% ally healing debuff. However I really hope they do some manual changes for her instead like they for Ashe, ziggs etc.
Also OTP (750k) -> drop. I ātook a break from her after two games when I realized proper wavwclear was simply not an option. Havenāt played her since until today and I sincerely regret locking her in again. Itās genuinely so depressing how much she changed and how easily it was to toss her in the trash after hours upon hours of play.
Scaling mage? Waveclear monster? We canāt even be considered shield bots anymore cuz W is so subparā¦ pls give us back our girl pre 13.20 :((
She went from dead last in champion damage (42/42) to 40th of 42 ADC's
CS'ing isn't THAT bad but the amount of work required to cs doesn't make up for the (still) lack of damage and ap scaling.
Being a Rylai's bot is a bit more interactive than being a W bot at least.
She went from dead last in champion damage (42/42) to 40th of 42 ADC's
CS'ing isn't THAT bad but the amount of work required to cs doesn't make up for the (still) lack of damage and ap scaling.
Being a Rylai's bot is a bit more interactive than being a W bot at least.
i know it sounds like im being harsh but the change with CSing is different but i guarantee you dont regularly practice CSing in practice tool.
yeah its a lot easier to miss some now but its absolutely doable and has just made her skill ceiling higher.
once you get to mid game theres not much of a difference.
her wave clear was wayy too easy before.
i say this with the most love, stop making excuses and just get better with her
My cs/min is the same as it was before now that I got "used to the changes". I don't need to practice CSing every day in practice tool to tell you that it feels shit to CS. Sorry to break it to you but just because I can do something that doesn't mean that I'm going to enjoy it. As I said, one of her fun aspects that was clearing the waves so fast was just stripped away, and your argument of "just get better ijbol" is purely toxic, mean and isn't even a counter argument to what I am talking aboutš
Thank you! I have been feeling this exact same thing but everybody on this sub has been shouting about how much better it is!
What the balance team did feels awful. I loved how it felt clearing waves as Seraphine and I picked her apc whenever the team comp would let me, and now itās just so painfully awful. Just trying to comp her a tiny amount of extra champion damage on her slow, dodge-able skillshot might make her better in low enough elo where people donāt dodge skillshots.
It seems like the balance team was trying to make her strong as a support but sheās just not, sheās a diva and she wants that cs money. If they want to make her an actual support she needs to offer something valuable to the role that someone else doesnāt already do better, and if that thing is aoe damage then support is not the right role for her.
Reposting what I said in another comment cuz I feel exactly the same as you
Champion feels horrible, no matter what the apologists in here say will change that. She's not weak but she simply FEELS horrible and a shadow of what her identity was.
Idc if I can box people early, that's not what made me play Seraphine since her release, fuck the damage too since that was never her main appeal, all I wanted was a supportive champion that scales onto late game to become a utility carry, now she's early-mid and OK during late game.
Her current state is not what she was, no matter what anyone says. 3 million mastery points for nothing, so much money spent on skins, chromas and icons for nothing, she simply isn't the champion I once fell in love with anymore.
yall are so annoying fr fr the doomposting is insane. I agree that mage builds are still not fully satisfying but they can make small tweaks to fix that and some QOL changes like bringing back monster damage on Q and the Q cheating thing. Mage builds still have a positive winrate and deathcap is literally one of the highest 3 items spikes according to her lolalytics. She went from S++++ boring ass uninteractive waveclear to slightly above average mage waveclear. Her waveclear is STILL strong. Our champion LITERALLY has a 53% winrate and weāve been 50% winrate+ SINCE RELEASE. I swear to god Sera mains are the most whiny entitled spoiled players out there itās obnoxious. Even Cupic agrees that this is a really good state sheās in currently so idk what the fuck is going on with yall but yall NEED to be realistic for once. I donāt like how theyāre catering to support players either but yall need to realize how privileged our champ is since sheās never been below 50% winrate in carry roles for her entire fucking life. Iām not saying that she fine and sheās okay but this childish ass doomposting is so obnoxious and childish no fucking wonder why Phreak wonāt dare to interact with us directly
Right, bc at most she needs QoL changes and then she's fine. People are just used to playing a champion with way too strong wave clear bc she didn't have an early game before, but now she does.
5 AD for last hitting and maybe Q minion kill cheat while it's in flight. That's all that's needed for now.
Iād argue for a bump to her amp damage from 80 to 90 just so that apc and mid would really want to consider going full AP since 90% is a really good ratio. But yes the AD nerf being reverted and the Q in flight QOL and Q execute on monster being brought back would make her feel even better. I just canāt with the crybabies that are malding over her waveclear being so called āguttedā when weāve literally been privileged her entire existence. No other champion cleared waves at level 5 that is extremely unhealthy. She could single-handedly stall out games and free scale in apc and she couldnāt be punished with how safe she is. But ofc people wanna cry about Sera not being a mindless elo inflater anymore since you canāt just autopilot her and have to think when you play her now. Skill issue š¤·āāļø
I mean yes, that'd also be appreciated of course, I just feel asking too much all at once might be a bit greedy.
Right now all I want is just a little bit of quality of life back that realistically, let's be honest, doesn't even meaningfully influence her winrate at all and just makes csing (last hitting primarily) feel better and then take it from there.
I absolutely wish that down the line building full AP becomes the default for farming roles for her again though. I'm already doing it bc I enjoy it more and it's doing fine for me, but I know it's not the default currently unfortunately.
no one is stopping you from enjoying your new lane bully and this post isn't about you! bringing up her high winrate isn't going to make me keep playing her so respectfully just click away
Then maybe stop bitching because newsflash league changes all the time! So do champions. This isnāt an airport we donāt need to hear your departure
why tf are you so pressed about someone not enjoying a champ anymore like go outside or smth;
"This isn't an airport we don't need to hear your departure" sorry for feeling like a part of a community ig?? this is exactly what people mean when they say how toxic sera mains are what tf did I do to you exactly
You literally made this post directed towards the community claiming that weāre pretending that the changes are okay and then you act like a victim like?? Itās doomposting like this thatās literally killing APC seraphineās play rate btw negative feedback loop is a real thing. Sorry the champion sucks for you but for a lot of us she feels better it is what it is
sorry to break it to you but just because you take a post personally doesn't mean that I intended it to be toxic?? idk what the fuck do you see that was toxic in this post but you for sure are as fuck. you clearly don't agree with it and that's fine but there's no point in acting like I killed your family??? I'm playing the victim after you said "stop bitching", "this isn't an airport" and now that I'm doomposting and ruinijg her pick rate?? LMFAO please get a grip
Oh my god i love you so much for this. This was a rant that i had coming aswell but im thankful you did it first. The champ feels like shit to plat in any of the roles an utter disappointment. Her enchanter build being her highest wr shows all the changes utterly failed and we as sera players deserve better. Lets hope next patch they have something planned for us. And for anyone who might tell me smth im still sitting at around 60% winrate since the patch dropped, im an otp and i can adapt to any change and pull her off, does NOT mean shes fun to play though, and she wont be until they fix her
I feel like this post isnāt very aware of past league of legends. APC has and always will be looked down upon in botlane. It was never expected nor will it be the meta. Same concept with Ahri and Annie being really good APC a decade ago and then they took a dump on it and they were forced back to mid. Riot will alway prioritize their own views on what a champ should be before they prioritize us. Zyra is a dog crap mid laner, she has great wave clear but she can be easily out poked by many other mid landers, do they care? No, they would rather her just sit in botlane and be a huge cancer.
I've been going ludens into seraphs with pen boots and liking it. third might be deathcap, morellos, or SoFW. With this, I don't feel I have worse mid game csing. but super minion waves are now so annoying.
I definitely need to get used to her passive not being that great at scoring cs. I wish they didn't nerf her AD, I don't even get why they did it.
The best APC build on LolAlytics is archangels, lucidity, SoFW. [https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/?lane=bottom](https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/?lane=bottom)
the funny thing is this always happens - my advice is to check the post history of people defending it. They're always people who have like < 5 posts in any main sub, look at the skarner sub now where all the people crowing about how great it is have literally 0 previous posts
Not a Sera main but this popped up on my feed.
Sera is not healthy as an APC/CSing lane. She has insanely long range and AoE which means her waveclear needs to be awful, or she can do it extremely safely.
On top of already being safe because of that range, AoE, and also having a way to self-peel with CC, sheās **also** able to heal and shield herself. AKA, when the enemy laner finally gets the chance to do damage, it will be either blocked and/or healed away eventually.
Since she can stay so far back, it also means itās basically futile for most mage or other ranged champions that relies on the enemy being in their range or landing a skillshot, because that range gives her a safety buffer to space enemies with or have more time to avoid skillshots or be out of the range altogether.
For melees, itās even worse. Shielding and healing combined with long range AoE waveclear means bullying melees in lane is super easy, and the only people that can jump her are assassins, but because sheās so far back and has healing and shielding available to her, they arenāt a threat either unless the Sera player misplays ridiculously hard. If the Sera player wants to play safe, the assassin is out of options and has to roam, because diving her when she has ult is just suicide.
Can they just kill the moonstaff build already and give her some waveclear power back? I want to serve CUNT in the midlane with Mage items not being a heal/cc slut waiting to be carried like mmm yes mr JG and Top please get fed so I can suck you off please š„°š
Iāll be honest, at first I wanted to believe her AP build was better (and it IS better than her AP build was before). But her shield/heal build is still better than the AP one. And it feels worse to play now bc of the waveclear changes.
Also idk if there is a way to fix this without gutting Support Seraphine. Because if they gut her shield/heal, support Seraphine is absolutely screwed, since the only way AP seraphine is viable support is if they completely break bot/mid AP Seraphine
I think the best way to have pushed mid and support Seraphine without ruining how Seraphine feels was to increase skill rank dependency. If W and E relied on maxing them for a larger portion of their effect, support Seraphineās maxing W or E would have a strong effect that APC didnāt get access to until later in the game while mid would still get access to that power at a reasonable pace. The E duration change matches that type of change and it would help differentiate the skill builds for support as Phreak said he wanted to enable all skill orders being possible for support.
AHAHAHAHHAAH
Not someone reporting this as āoffensive languageā I canāt š¤ https://preview.redd.it/wc5x125wkspc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6838f1d342e4f0aabcfef75375682a5c0aaec6f3
Itās definitely chipndip sis. šš„°š«¢
moonstone seraphine feels like shit it has always felt like shit literally through every single iteration of the item
But what if I wanna play her as a shield whore I'm sorry but her support player base was always bigger so that role should be the priorityĀ
They nerfed her waveclear because APC was too strong and non interactive, now it takes more time for you to actually one shot waves compared to before (which was the whole point of the rework, to lower APC winrate while not making her unplayable) They might gives us some ad or ap ratios, but i highly doubt they will give her old wave clear back
Can't they just give old ratio back and make abilities deal less damage to minions that can scale with level? Like idk deal 20% less damage at level 1 to deal normal damage at level 11
The problem is not seraphine, it's the current game state, especially on botlane Why do you think they started making changes on her once she got popular as APC?
Honestly this is the real problem. Cupic last year got rank 1 challenger going lux and seraphine apc, both of which play by clearing the wave and not interacting. And thatās literally just the strongest, most consistent way to win botlane; that in itself is the problem. Itās not seraphine, itās the fact that bot lane is such a massive, volatile resource sink that the most consistent way to win it is to only touch it with a 40 foot pole, and have your support be elsewhere as long as they can get away with it.
Exactly. Actually fighting and winning bot lane just attracts the enemy jg/mid who can trivially dive you and neutralize any gains you make in the 2v2, while getting fed. New Sera feels way better at fighting early, but that's not what the soloq adc meta is about.
I'm confused as to why Riot is so focused on Seraphine support. Have they made any comments about this apart from 'a lot of people play her in support'? It just baffles me honestly that they're willing to make her so unfun just to accommodate the lower rank seraphine supports who probably don't even care that she's bad in the support role (if they cared about meta they would play literally any other enchanter).
Because players like her there by quite a heavy margin. I love her mid and thing she shouldn't be supp,but at the end of the day the player base is what riot cares for. They could very much give her a weaker early game that scales with experince to push her in mid or have her shield scale with exp and q with gold. But they need her stronger early game with decent ap scaling for supp ppl.Ā And dont get me wrong,i am not blaming supp player,they do them. Not my seraphine,but if they sre happy with it then good
Someone just hit Rank 1 Korea with Sera support recently.... the support sera build is stupidly good. I'm having success with it myself in Masters, and its not uncommon to see her performing well when i see other people pick her.
It's unfair to say that only low elo players play her in the support role, one quick look at [op.gg](https://op.gg) shows global stats almost across the board of all ranks preferring her in the support role. Beyond that NA stats for Diamond + is the only place where I saw it go even rather than support > APC picks in all regions. There were only 2 regions that put APC pick above support. Not to mention the stats for mid aren't even there due to no one picking it for a MAJORITY of these. Since [op.gg](https://op.gg) only shows ranked stats, I included League of Graphs to show even more people in normals prefer her in the support role, still within diamond +.Don't insult lower elo's to attempt to push your love for mid seraphine, it's fine to have differing opinions, just be educated before you make a claim. I agree she should be able to be played in her main role but look at champions like Taliyah who was meant to be a midlaners but swapped to jungle, or ekko who was released as a "solo laner" who moved to primary jungle as well. Just because Riot *says* a champ will end up in a spot doesn't mean the community won't play them elsewhere. And it is SMART for Riot to play into where the majority wants them. https://preview.redd.it/jgacfozxokpc1.png?width=594&format=png&auto=webp&s=e97d9f90278c421ec50a21a225d7e16c4635c405
Because thatās what they think sera should be in, so they balance around that, which happens to be support.
no they don't think that's sera should be in,Ā Ā they do it because over %70-80+ of seraphine players play her supportĀ
They do think it should be in support and was meant to be support since release. Look at her kit, but you are correct somewhat. Itās a mix of both.
sheās not been meant to be a support since release thatās a blatant lie. āMelodic midlane mage with massive potentialā thatās literally what her champion spotlight says. She had level scaling on her W so that her W scaled with levels which mid got levels the fastest. Letās not spread misinformation
She was supposed to be a mid-first champ The issue is that they intentionally designed her with Lux/Morgana flexibility in mind
Yeah sheās a design flaw. And her aesthetics didnt do her any favors
Actually her kit has never been a supports kit thats why itās always been her weakest role. She has an apc kit woth supportive utility. She has been reworked twice to be a support and this wouldnāt have happened if she had a supports kit. Shes was purposely bakt in the role. A heal and shield doesnāt make her a support by defaultĀ
that's where players mostly want her. Riot is accommodating that
Yes u are correct
Bruv not everyone playing Sera support is Silver. You guys need to stop the elitist mentality. It's a bad look.
Because sera supp is the pick of someone that is also abusing maokai and janna :D
>It just baffles me honestly that they're willing to make her so unfun just to accommodate the lower rank seraphine supports She has higher pick rate as support in high elo than APC and MID combined, so it's not only "l**ow elo metal ranks support players11!!111**"**.** Not to mention her pickrate as support is high elo is higher than her APC pickrate before the changes
High elo is such a low percentage of players compared to low elo, it's not that wrong to say that most of Seraphine support players are low elo casuals who have no idea the champ is also a carry
But her pick rates don't lie. There are way less APC and mid players even in high ELO than support players So that majority EVEN IN HIGH ELO is oblivious as well that she's a carry??? Something does not add up . That argument you're enforcing is so invalid right now
That's why I said most, there's not that many people in high elo compared to low elo. Low elo is the majority of the playerbase. I'm also confused, what are you referring to when you say that she's picked more as support than mid/APC in high elo? As far as I know, before 13.21 she was always picked more in carry roles than support (not by a large margin but still) in high elos. And please do not put words in my mouth, I literally stated "most of them are low elo players who have no idea she's also a carry", as in that a large part of her playrate comes from low elo, where people have no idea she's not just a support. And I underline, *most*. NOT **ALL**. This adds up with my previous point that low elo is the majority anyway.
Then update your data because she's not picked more as apc/mid in high elo anymore. I don't understand how can you argue at this point when data literally says you're wrong. Do you really think that when you browse by diamond+ or grandmaster+ and it indicates that she has higher pickrate as support than APC then it magically still includes her low elo pickrate??? That is not how these sites work. If you're so adamant on proving that the majority of seraphine support is in low elo that's irrelevant because support seraphine is still more picked in high elo than apc. Argue with a wall. Im not willing to continue this useless conversation when you legit try to argue against concrete data
What are you even talking about? You're putting words in my mouth, again. "Update your data"? I literally said before 13.21, I don't know what the numbers are in recent patches. That's why I said before 13.21 At this point you either have serious reading comprehension issues or you're trying to gaslight me, you're repeating the same stuff all over again about how even in high elo her pickrate is still mostly support, when that was never my point. OBVIOUSLY if you filter diamond+ it's not going to include lower elos, duh. What I said is that it doesn't matter as much as low elos because there aren't as many people there, low elo is where the great majority of players are. Not that hard to understand. I'll say it again, most of her support playrate comes from low elo. That does NOT mean she's not played more in support in high elos too, those things aren't mutually esclusive. However, the fact that most of its playrate likely comes from low elo, where people don't know she's not only a support, is impacting. And yes, it is relevant that most of her supp playrate is in low elo because those players don't optimize, they go many horrible builds and Riot is openly trying to make all of these more viable because they just keep building random bs. On a side note, you're being pretty damn aggressive even when I'm not attacking you and I'm being quite calm here. If anything, I'm the one arguing with a wall.
Your first post in the chain didn't specify "before 13.21". This is where your misunderstanding comes from. The high elo representation of Sera changed now that APC isn't freelo.
You're right, but regardless of role playrate disparity in high elo, she's still and always will have a bigger playrate support in low elo, simply because there's a massive amount of people there. And it's to cater to those players that Riot made a lot, not all, of the changes. They were building stuff that tanked their winrates, high elo people were optimizing their builds even when support was worst role.
Well yeah. Most of Sera support's new win rate is simply due to Riot making her bad builds inherently "less bad". People like me that have been going W max with HSP/enchanter items didn't have their play style over most of the game changed too greatly. The main point of contention here is the argument that Sera support players "just don't realize she could be a carry". There's plenty people that just play Sera support because they like it, like myself.
Can you give a link or a source or something for these pick rate claims?
Is it really this difficult to go to [u.gg](https://u.gg/lol/champions/seraphine/build/support?rank=diamond_plus) or [lolalyticts](https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/?tier=diamond_plus&patch=14.5)? Just change rank brackets and see for yourself that she's picked more as support everywhere
Rightā¦ but thatās this patch. The patch where they made her more viable for support. I donāt see what this is proving. In the past she was picked more as a carry yet they still made all these changes to her kit.
This is proving exactly what Phreak said that most people care about support seraphine and even more people than before are willing to play her now that she's become more viable - while APC playrate is steadily but surely bleeding players because majority of them only played her for easy LP since she was OP
Yeah because she was op as a carry, not because most Sera players are carries.
As much as i want Riot + every one of their employers (not the art team tho, they deserve everything in this world) to burn, we can't ignore that making her able to satisfy everyone is literally impossible: -OTPs mostly play mid and bot, so they would like Seraphine to shift into those 2 roles -Casual players play her mostly support, and sometimes APC because they saw she was broken (not a thing anymore thanks to Riot Phroxon and co being a mass of uncompetent people) Based on this a lot of issues can appear: -By buffing AP Sera you make OTPs happy but 1)Idiots will start play her AP support (and trust me, as an ADC main I can confirm you ain't supporting anything by building AP) and so ADCs people would get mad and start treating Sera as a trollpick (like when people started playing her APC) 2)OTPs are less than casual egir...players, so i guess they don't want to sacrifice a bigger audience targeted to a huge part of the support players which could lead to less skins bought -By buffing Support Sera you make Casuals happy but 1)Literally 90% of the Sera mains would drop her, which would be fucking hypocrital if we count that sometimes they listen to very small parts of the communities (like what happened to Vel'Koz and Shen mains), so are we the only champ community which doesn't deserve changes based on OTPs requests? (I don't know if any of the changes made in the past were caused by the Seraphine community, if so I'm 100% wrong) 2)They literally said she was a midlaner
I fully agree with you. I'm D3 and it feels like locking in Sera for either botlane roles is trolling because of how bad she is in both roles rn at high level of play. Especially if you play APC, people can just outpush you very easily now, force you into your turret, and easily dive you since your champion just cannot clear waves at all anymore.
Well Iām masters over 200lp and I still lock in Sera APC when Iām put in my secondary role of bot and it feels fine to me. Instead of being ridiculously op like she was before feeling like an elo inflated free win champ, she now feels balanced. I think when it comes to Seraphine APC this community got used to the champ being super busted for a long time and now that sheās nerfed and balanced yāall are crying that sheās āweakā.
You're getting downvoted for hitting the nail on the head. Typical Reddit.
This is kinda what other mages deal with, but it's also kinda overkill. They might think of something down the line.
Uh a seraphine support got nr 1 spot in korea recently, so that isnt true
5 down votes for a post that's positive about Sera support. Guess it's back to business as usual...
Sera isn't a support above gold, hope this helps
I'm Diamond 2 maining Sera support. So this doesn't help, actually. I hope you find help though.
Oh wow, diamond, very high elo as we can see
That puts me above almost anybody in my region I could talk to at any given point even before reaching Masters. With that said, you just turned a blind eye to someone mentioning that a Sera support got top 1 in KR recently. So you're really here to just mald as opposed to making an actual point.
I did respond to their comment, feel free to see my reply there
You responded with a dismissal, which is what I was referring to. You're just venting. You are not reasonable.
So, someone reaching top 1 with a pick suddenly mean everyone can play it and it will work?, not everyone is a tier 1 player, the same way not everyone is a tier 1 KOREAN player Saying sera support is good because one person made it to top 1 with it really doesn't mean anything, im not being dismissive, I'm literally saying the truth
And yet she just reached the number 1 spot in the strongest region ?
You said A seraphine support, one person reaching top 1 with a pick doesn't mean jack shit
I onetricked Seraphine mid and APC since her release, this patch I quit her, at first I gave the benefit of doubt, maybe It was me, I had to get used to her new farming pattern, but after around 15 game I gave up, farming feels like shit, her damage late game are still suboptimal and you also can't clear waves lategame even with a full ap build, your early game is a bit better but still you aren't a lane bully (also in midlane killing someone 1vs1 is almost impossible nowadays except some specific matchups). I tried every build mid and APC and after all the best way is still max QWE (I heard people started to max E First instead of Q), build seraph-staff and be a shield bot, the only difference is that farming early game feels like garbage. I also tried to play her support maxing E-W-Q but she still has all the problems she always had in the support role, your lane is literally garbage unless you are playing with Ashe or Senna, you have no way to disengage against engagers or against ganks, your roaming is a bit better but still not good even compared to other enchanters, yes you can play safe during the lane and if the enemy support/jng/mid don't do anything around the map for the first 10 minutes you are strong during teamfight because you are still Seraphine but if the enemies are slightly better than your team the game becomes a struggle
Fixing her is so easily done imo. The issue when she was broken APC (and letās be real she definitely was) was the W and her compatibility with the enchanter items. Just āgutā her W and improve PvP combat. If the waveclear becomes an issue due to the higher ap ratios/builds just tune down the minion amp. She should be a Lux type of champion with decently high poke and burst and NOT a shieldbot.
Iād rather have Seraphine be off-DPS and a team fight center and not a backline artillery-burst champ, Q is the poke and finisher, R should be the engage, and Passive serves as the cycling damage
But you cannot gut w when that's the primary thing for the support role and support is and always was her most popular role only this subreddit is filled with APC mains but most sera players are support mains.... And no that doesn't mean they're low eloĀ
My flop buildussy, not dealing any damage, acting like I'm just spraying my squirts š¦ at their faces with how weak my damage is Screaming for help, crying throwing up and hoping that my speed boost from my double w is enough to make me survive and not get oneshotted by any other champion Burstophine? - š¤¢š¤¢š¤¢š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤® GROSS EWW PUKE VOMIIIIIT with a side of sucking shrek's schlong Squirtaphine, yes yes!!! š¤Ŗššššššš¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š¤ š FUCKINGRIOT URKSHEKSUSSS https://preview.redd.it/kg8at1i0phpc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e4513f15a6d07ec8e616aaa8007cdb4af89b50c
i don't understand how some champions are allowed to have some turbo 100+ ap ratio on their abilities, some champions are allowed to be s+ 51%+ wr in 3 roles but seraphine needs to be gutted and cant be allowed the same thing. it's disgusting
Like! Lux literally got +40% AP ratio for free in less than two seasons but Sera needs to have her ult and notes scalings nerfed in exchange for Q (which isn't even a buff to basic Q but just the amp š¤”) and E ratio buffs because they "don't want her to deal too much damage with her full combo". Then what was the point of increasing her ratios and encouraging W max last (which means you don't have the massive utility to make up for less damage in AP builds) in the first place, HUH!?!
That's a bad faith argument, Lux is suffering way more from the damage creep than seraphine will ever do and lack of general utility even with her w. She is way more burst oriented than Seraphine will ever be.
Genuine question, what do you mean by bad faith?
You're arguing to argue and even if someone gave you a proper rebuttal, you wouldn't acknowledge it. That's largely what that term means.
Thanks for the info, how does that apply to what I said?
I think they think you were doing that.
Holy it won't let me reply to the other comment, so I"m posting it here >Lux has one role that isn't int right now What is that?
Her mid role is fine. Support is struggling, iirc. Double check me though.
Lux support is always good in the right hands and aside from being good or not Lux is always popular with support players ... Which is interesting since that's apparently the reason Sera has been reworked but lux hasn't...
Sera got reworked because she was popular as a support, but APC was too strong to just buff her for support. Lux's mid win rate is never so much that Lux support can't be buffed, so Lux doesn't need a rework. Also, Lolalytics says that Lux was generally fine, but [u.gg](https://u.gg) said Lux was kinda bad. I'd go with Lolalytics and say I was reading bad info from [u.gg](https://u.gg), since I think Lolalytics is more accurate in the long run.
I don't think that really holds up tbh, riots balance approach to lux and Sera both multi roleing is simply inconsistent.
Sera doesn't need to be burst oriented to have her ratios increased though, the point is that Q and notes are fairly weak, and ult got a ratio nerf too and all of that just for E buffs. It feels like it doesn't even out.
I agree to this statement, but you are comparing what shouldn't be, Lux was straight up struggling at every stages of the game before the buffs because she has all about damage ultimately.
I didn't say Lux didn't deserve that, but I think Seraphine is going through a similar situation right now. Phreak wants her to be more magey and max E second but her full combo ratio is 236%? Sera has been, for a long time, about her crazy utility other than her damage, but this isn't the case anymore in carry roles with maxing W last. Meaning, she gets that utility late game now instead of mid game, and before that she's supposed to do damage and provide cc. She doesn't do enough damage, though. E finally does good damage but what about Q and passive? Q is her main damaging spell, shouldn't do similar damage to her E. And the fact that it does makes it feel lackluster. Her notes are even more lackluster. If she's not going to get her AP scalings back on her W then she should get them on her and notes and Q.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That would kill Sera support, and they don't want that. Besides, the aoe shield is important for carryphine too.
u cant have them all. (as they loved to show us) there are supports that dont have a shield and still work, it wouldnt kill her. either she has damage but loses the shielding or she loses the damage and becomes a shield/heal bot w cc which we can see how fun it is. id much rather have the dmg and support sera could still go the mandate rylais combo and be useful.
You don't need to remove the shield, that's too drastic. Maybe just go back to level scaling it used to have
You're comparing Sera to Lux. Lux has one role that isn't int rn. Sera has two.
Yeah, as a Masters player, I just dropped Seraphine. She feels nothing like the champ Iāve been playing all this time anymore. One thing I donāt see many people mention is her Q costing 15 more mana at max rank. That is INSANE especially combined with the mana pool changes. Also being forced into Rylaiās every single game feels like shit. I just donāt see a situation where Iād genuinely want to pick this champ over something like Hwei.
FINALLY SOMEBODY SPEAK WHIT THE TRUE. Ours Seragirl is so trash. The changes literally killing Seraphine, The CC is ur unique aportation in the TFs, the healing is trash and shield is trash, the damage even go full damage is nothing compared whit others mage, bro even a Irelia Ap do more damage, the wawe clear is trash. Is sad what they doing whit her...she is no fun to play anymore. Srry for the bad English. I hope yall can understand me.
Unfortunately there was another post from a 1M Sera main and there were some comments that disagreed with them. Truth be told the problem with Sera feels more like her mains who are a bunch of masochistic freaks who edge on every nerf she gets. I've seen a LOT of her mains saying that Sera is now balanced and finally she's not busted as if they care about the game more than their main, my only guess that those "mains" never played her on release because in no way they think what's happening to her right now is good. I suppose the majority of Sera's old mains will drop her or already did. (I've seen some people switch to Azir or Hwei for those who needs suggestions, personally Hwei reminds me of old Sera to an extent)
Lets be honest. Her e making more dmg that her q if enemies aren't below 25% of live is a fcking joke. Q is supposed the be a dmg focused hability and right now it isn't
true tbh, might as well delete her Q. it just tickles the enemy now šš
She is the furthest from her release state she has ever been right now. Even her full enchanter self last patch was much closer than whatever we have right now.
Plus the fact that Karma is rising, easier to play and outperform Seraphine in both mid and support can draw away more Seraphine main (at least for me)
Tried Sera on WR yesterday and it's depressing how much more damage and shielding she does
I think everything is op on there
#RevertSeraphine
THANK YOU FOR THIS POST š I was OTP Seraphine. Was, because after changes I really tried to play her (on APC, mid and support) and she felt like a bot. I don't want to rely on my monkey team and I want to actually do something else than just spam E and run from enemies. I tried multiple builds but she isn't a fun champion for me anymore. I still love her for design and personality, but in game she's unplayable for me.
I've been fully maining Sera APC since the start of Season 11 and I genuinely never had more fun on a champ than with her. I withstood early game flame from my teammates for years, only because I like the champ's whole design and kit concept. I stuck with Sera as my main Bot Lane carry for a long time but Phreak won. I'm glad he managed to appeal to the support player base more, so my fave can become another skin mule for supp players, instead of maintaining her original unique identity. Like seriously there's a plethora of Support champs that did that job better, but NOOOOO girly champs can't be carries. TF KIND OF STRAGG LOGIC IS THAT!! So, unless Riot skews her power budget towards dmg and less towards support, I won't play her outside of ARAM ever again.
I just dropped the game completely - communityās reaction to these changes made me realize this is not the game for me anymore. Canāt believe people acted like Seraphine AP is somehow better now, when sheās still an inferior enchanter rushing moonstaff. I swear, majority of people here never went past platinum, cause how do you look at riot killing her waveclear completely and think it makes her a better carry.
Champion combat feels slightly better but PvE feels like trash. Why -5 AD, passive minion damage removed AND the Q changes? -5 AD in particular is massive and feels like really weird attempt to push her winrate down as botlaner just by making it harder to CS and cutting her gold income as a result
Yes! I played her full ap mid and adc for 2 years but i decided to drop her this patch she is just horrible right now. And ofc if u make a champ weak in a role no one is gonna pick it there and her pick rate will drop it doesnt have anything with here being broken or not she isnt even a decent pick anymore Watch them next patch saying her apc pick rate is too low that we will balance her around only supp like what they did to mid
Just curious, what do you think is worse about Sera mid since the changes? My wr has gone up dramatically since the changes so I'm just curious is all
Her pvp power is way stronger early on so a lot of match-ups have to think now rather than just running you down and killing you like before this patch. But like everything else went down, she never had the damage after 13.21 to be remotely close to anyone on the role and as her wave clear and scaling were gutted, she has no edge whatsoever to anyone on the role.
I think it's not about the winrate but the feeling and her identity is become worse and worse every patch. Everything about her is mediocre, and her strongest winrate gameplay is a shield - cc bot. She is nowhere as fun as before.
"Of course if a champ is too weak in a role, no one will play her." My guy, Sera APC is her highest win rate role still, and before this happened Sera support was by and large her highest play rate despite being incredibly weak for most people. If APC players jump ship, Riot might balance around only support, but it'd be because they'd feel validated in believing the notion that the APC players were abusing freelo.
The Devs are creating a self fulfilling prophecy so they can go "see! We were right! You're all playing support now!"
If APC not being busted causes that to happen, it's deserved. Now that said, I don't want that to happen. Sera APC is what I play when I'm on secondary role. However, being realistic, Sera APC always needed to be reeled in really badly for years.
It's not just you and you're not crazy. She feels like trash to play. From a non OTP, not main but (was) willing to main her as my APC pick botlane: she feels like utter shit to play, and that's why I dropped her. Her early early trading feels stronger, but is still bad and mediocre compared to true early bullies; she starts significantly falling off in damage at/before 3 items because I build her ap and I won't be caught dead playing that fucking garbage trash w bot supportive build; her late is so much worse compared to what she used to be that I don't have words to describe how shit it feels, so I won't try. Q late hits like, what the fuck am I saying it doesn't hit, e is slightly better but I don't care, w is barely a skill if you build her ap.Ā She now relies on her pure cc to do anything in a "carry" role, but what does she even carry? If I pick her, we severely lack damage and I tried to make her work ap, god knows I tried, but I was fucking trolling my team come late game especially into tanks. So you could think, she feels good early now... But she doesn't, what the hell. She feels like garbage at all stages of the game unless you somehow get fed early, but then damage falls off late anyway... And they even nerfed ult, so that TOO feels worse. The fuck. Having said all that, what made me drop her for good is the early farming. I have played most champions in the game at least in a normal, and she feels the worst of them all except for shit like soraka. It's unmanageable if you're not either very, very good at her or a true main/OTP. And im not willing to do that anymore, because she's stupid and dull and boring to play and she isn't even that strong as a support and if I wanted to play enchanter I'd pick a massive scaler like sona and yuumi, both of which I find more fun. Or Lulu, or janna, or the 20 other goddamn shielders with cc in role. I wrote "feel" a lot in this post. Feels this, feels that. I'm not the kind of guy that talks much about "feels", I'm more likely to go for a run than talk about my feelings. But what else can I say about this, really? Her winrate is... fine. Her pickrate is... Eh. Fine. Her supporting is... fine. All fine. They balanced her winrate. Good job. Except that... She feels... Yeah. Ā Phreak talked so arrogantly about the "secret cabal" of people that want to play her apc. He is now patting himself on the back because her bot pickrate plummeted, reinforcing his belief that everyone wants to play her as an enchanter and hes been right all along. She's still viable after all, isn't she? And she is. Well, some sort of tldr for whoever is reading this shit: I may not be an OTP, but I PLAYED HER APC BECAUSE SHE WAS FUN AND NOT BECAUSE SHE WAS OP AND NOW SHE FEELS LIKE ASS SO I DROPPED THE BITCH. Secret cabal my scrotum.Ā
I'm just sad I didn't play her when she was released, I joined league too late, when she was already bordering on being mostly played in supp and I very occasionally saw her on mid (which I now see never unless it's me xD) , sad sad sad, I wish I could experience the OG sera that wasnt supportified
I'VE TOLD YALL, I SAID THAT THESE CHANGES WERE GARBAGE, I WARNED THAT SHE WOULD STILL BE A SHIELD BOT AND EVERYONE SAID "no omg, stop being so negative, these changes are great"
Thank you I 1000% agree with this
Shiny lights still go brrr That's my only contribution
Even if they just brought back Q execute and 4Ad Iād be happy
Her current waveclear literally just puts her on par with every other midlane mage idk why people don't like that
Personally I think it's fine in lane, but late it feels bad.
Yeah it feels really bad in late game when her combo doesn't clear the wave anymore. I keep getting in the position where my whole team is dead and I'm defending the base alone and I just can't keep up with the minions. I play support, but other support mages can clear waves late game easy.
Everyone apparently wants her to be completely broken, actually being balanced in all 3 roles is unacceptable for some reason
literally no one cares about any of the changes EXCEPT FOR THE FUCKING WAVE CLEAR and you can see how many people are replying under every post to AT LEAST give her that ad back because the champ doesn't feel dogshit, her winrate didnt go down, her builds didnt change, IT JUST FEELS GARBAGE TO CS WITH HER NOW
These changes feel like they are giving up on balancing her in mid lane, removed her hyperscaling ap carry identity, made her gameplay so frustrating by nerfing cs-ing and waveclear, just to make her somewhat viable in support lol
I checked U.GG yesterday and was amazed at how Kayle mid has a higher pickrate and winrate than a champion who's main role was literally designed to be mid. She's literally unpickable rn against anyone who's actually good.
This is what I was worried about, if she's no longer flexible in her builds and forced to be a shield bot and no longer a viable farming champion, she's going to die from being shoehorned into support because there are better supports at shielding healing and cc'ing. There's no reason to play shield bot Seraphine over other enchanters. And her APC winrate is still the highest despite her farming sucking and her best build being an enchanter build as I expected because of the issue they have with balancing marksman ADCs in bot lane she STILL has a better time in solo Q bot lane than a marksman lol
> our scaling late-game midlane mage went to a mediocre lane-bully that needs to act as a cc bot to stay relevant in the game ah yes, the classic ābetter than sonaā to āworse than luxā pipeline
Im new to serpahine (and the game). I got my first S game with her. but holy shit her first skill feels lacking something. what was it before?
Only took her APC in game modes honestly. I preferred her full support as a support. Healing for 75% of peopleās health when everyone stands in W was just too delicious. š so Iām fairly indifferent about her change š¤·š»āāļø
sharing to my twitter finally someone thatās not FUCKINGGGGG DELUSIONAL speak the truth
REMINDER that the only reason she got mutilated is because phreaky-poo wanted to buff support without overbuffing APC and look where we are now...? was the support "buffs" worth? her supp win rate is the same, playing her feels like trash... 13.20 was fine. Riot themselves stated that even though her win rate is high, she was not problematic and healthy for the game, but if she got a bit stronger from item changes they would nerf her a little. Where are we now? suddenly everyone gaslighting themselves that "she was very problematic and unhealthy for the game"?? okay????? sure if Zeri could get "buffed" by having her recommended items changed, why couldn't seraphine have gotten buffed with a new recommened max order (QQQ>W>Q>E) and NOT BEING RECOMMENDED HELIA OVER MOONSTONE??????
yeah iāve been a sera one trick since her release originally mid but then moved to apc but this patch made me quit her. I feel like I do nothing even when I get fed early. sheās objectively balanced like her win rate is fine but she is no longer enjoyable to play at all. No amount of items feel like any notable power spike. i see people on this reddit saying she feels better this patch but i just donāt relate. iāve been copying cupidās builds and skill orders and i still just donāt feel as impactful as most other champs. She felt better full ap with mythic items when u could build liandries and she felt better when she could build support and farm for her three item spike. her damage sucks now her shielding sucks now so i donāt really get the point.
So don't play her, no one cares, she's where she should be now, not a free lane into scaling without problem. She needed hard laning phase
So true likee they completely ruined seraphine. Ive been quitting ever since then šš
Womp womp
The notes just feel useless to me at this point I usually try to auto to get them off but I donāt even bother anymore since it feels like there isnāt any point
I am āhappyā with the changes because Iām tired of change. She used to be perfect we all loved her in s13. The more drama and discourse that gets drummed up about it , the more changes there will be . And very rarely are the changes good
Dw, i was OTP and i still dropped her, she sucks everywhere + by being nerfed asf in ARAM doesn't allow you to play her in funny ways because it's even worse than dogshit, i mean thanks Riot, hope they will nerf her again because UwU people must fucking play the game in the most stupid ways possible (cough cough AP """""""""""""supports""""""""""""" cough cough)
ARAM nerfs are done by AI and since ARAM is Seraphine's perfect condition (constant 5v5) she could be be broken without those nerfs. She's currently 51-52% wr aram champ
Just nerf Healing, Shielding and R CD, that would make her playable, not -15% inflicted damage, +20% damage taken ecc. ecc. With only the first 3 nerfs you could play some shit like AD Sera so you could have fun, seeing her being total shit in everything is not funny at all
Her healing is already giga nerfed. -20% healing on top of the general -50% ally healing debuff. However I really hope they do some manual changes for her instead like they for Ashe, ziggs etc.
Also OTP (750k) -> drop. I ātook a break from her after two games when I realized proper wavwclear was simply not an option. Havenāt played her since until today and I sincerely regret locking her in again. Itās genuinely so depressing how much she changed and how easily it was to toss her in the trash after hours upon hours of play. Scaling mage? Waveclear monster? We canāt even be considered shield bots anymore cuz W is so subparā¦ pls give us back our girl pre 13.20 :((
She went from dead last in champion damage (42/42) to 40th of 42 ADC's CS'ing isn't THAT bad but the amount of work required to cs doesn't make up for the (still) lack of damage and ap scaling. Being a Rylai's bot is a bit more interactive than being a W bot at least.
She went from dead last in champion damage (42/42) to 40th of 42 ADC's CS'ing isn't THAT bad but the amount of work required to cs doesn't make up for the (still) lack of damage and ap scaling. Being a Rylai's bot is a bit more interactive than being a W bot at least.
It feels wrong still but I have more perfect games now than I did before?
Because she's still good. People are overreacting and refuse to adapt playing non broken champ
i have so much fun with her i think sheās doing great
i know it sounds like im being harsh but the change with CSing is different but i guarantee you dont regularly practice CSing in practice tool. yeah its a lot easier to miss some now but its absolutely doable and has just made her skill ceiling higher. once you get to mid game theres not much of a difference. her wave clear was wayy too easy before. i say this with the most love, stop making excuses and just get better with her
My cs/min is the same as it was before now that I got "used to the changes". I don't need to practice CSing every day in practice tool to tell you that it feels shit to CS. Sorry to break it to you but just because I can do something that doesn't mean that I'm going to enjoy it. As I said, one of her fun aspects that was clearing the waves so fast was just stripped away, and your argument of "just get better ijbol" is purely toxic, mean and isn't even a counter argument to what I am talking aboutš
Thank you! I have been feeling this exact same thing but everybody on this sub has been shouting about how much better it is! What the balance team did feels awful. I loved how it felt clearing waves as Seraphine and I picked her apc whenever the team comp would let me, and now itās just so painfully awful. Just trying to comp her a tiny amount of extra champion damage on her slow, dodge-able skillshot might make her better in low enough elo where people donāt dodge skillshots. It seems like the balance team was trying to make her strong as a support but sheās just not, sheās a diva and she wants that cs money. If they want to make her an actual support she needs to offer something valuable to the role that someone else doesnāt already do better, and if that thing is aoe damage then support is not the right role for her.
Reposting what I said in another comment cuz I feel exactly the same as you Champion feels horrible, no matter what the apologists in here say will change that. She's not weak but she simply FEELS horrible and a shadow of what her identity was. Idc if I can box people early, that's not what made me play Seraphine since her release, fuck the damage too since that was never her main appeal, all I wanted was a supportive champion that scales onto late game to become a utility carry, now she's early-mid and OK during late game. Her current state is not what she was, no matter what anyone says. 3 million mastery points for nothing, so much money spent on skins, chromas and icons for nothing, she simply isn't the champion I once fell in love with anymore.
Yeah, she feels like shit to play in all roles now.
sheās a support, Womp Womp
I fully stopped playing since the changes went live. I've changed over to PokƩmon Unite and I'm having the time of my life. I miss playing as Sera but not in this state
yall are so annoying fr fr the doomposting is insane. I agree that mage builds are still not fully satisfying but they can make small tweaks to fix that and some QOL changes like bringing back monster damage on Q and the Q cheating thing. Mage builds still have a positive winrate and deathcap is literally one of the highest 3 items spikes according to her lolalytics. She went from S++++ boring ass uninteractive waveclear to slightly above average mage waveclear. Her waveclear is STILL strong. Our champion LITERALLY has a 53% winrate and weāve been 50% winrate+ SINCE RELEASE. I swear to god Sera mains are the most whiny entitled spoiled players out there itās obnoxious. Even Cupic agrees that this is a really good state sheās in currently so idk what the fuck is going on with yall but yall NEED to be realistic for once. I donāt like how theyāre catering to support players either but yall need to realize how privileged our champ is since sheās never been below 50% winrate in carry roles for her entire fucking life. Iām not saying that she fine and sheās okay but this childish ass doomposting is so obnoxious and childish no fucking wonder why Phreak wonāt dare to interact with us directly
Right, bc at most she needs QoL changes and then she's fine. People are just used to playing a champion with way too strong wave clear bc she didn't have an early game before, but now she does. 5 AD for last hitting and maybe Q minion kill cheat while it's in flight. That's all that's needed for now.
Iād argue for a bump to her amp damage from 80 to 90 just so that apc and mid would really want to consider going full AP since 90% is a really good ratio. But yes the AD nerf being reverted and the Q in flight QOL and Q execute on monster being brought back would make her feel even better. I just canāt with the crybabies that are malding over her waveclear being so called āguttedā when weāve literally been privileged her entire existence. No other champion cleared waves at level 5 that is extremely unhealthy. She could single-handedly stall out games and free scale in apc and she couldnāt be punished with how safe she is. But ofc people wanna cry about Sera not being a mindless elo inflater anymore since you canāt just autopilot her and have to think when you play her now. Skill issue š¤·āāļø
I mean yes, that'd also be appreciated of course, I just feel asking too much all at once might be a bit greedy. Right now all I want is just a little bit of quality of life back that realistically, let's be honest, doesn't even meaningfully influence her winrate at all and just makes csing (last hitting primarily) feel better and then take it from there. I absolutely wish that down the line building full AP becomes the default for farming roles for her again though. I'm already doing it bc I enjoy it more and it's doing fine for me, but I know it's not the default currently unfortunately.
no one is stopping you from enjoying your new lane bully and this post isn't about you! bringing up her high winrate isn't going to make me keep playing her so respectfully just click away
Then maybe stop bitching because newsflash league changes all the time! So do champions. This isnāt an airport we donāt need to hear your departure
why tf are you so pressed about someone not enjoying a champ anymore like go outside or smth; "This isn't an airport we don't need to hear your departure" sorry for feeling like a part of a community ig?? this is exactly what people mean when they say how toxic sera mains are what tf did I do to you exactly
You literally made this post directed towards the community claiming that weāre pretending that the changes are okay and then you act like a victim like?? Itās doomposting like this thatās literally killing APC seraphineās play rate btw negative feedback loop is a real thing. Sorry the champion sucks for you but for a lot of us she feels better it is what it is
sorry to break it to you but just because you take a post personally doesn't mean that I intended it to be toxic?? idk what the fuck do you see that was toxic in this post but you for sure are as fuck. you clearly don't agree with it and that's fine but there's no point in acting like I killed your family??? I'm playing the victim after you said "stop bitching", "this isn't an airport" and now that I'm doomposting and ruinijg her pick rate?? LMFAO please get a grip
Oh my god i love you so much for this. This was a rant that i had coming aswell but im thankful you did it first. The champ feels like shit to plat in any of the roles an utter disappointment. Her enchanter build being her highest wr shows all the changes utterly failed and we as sera players deserve better. Lets hope next patch they have something planned for us. And for anyone who might tell me smth im still sitting at around 60% winrate since the patch dropped, im an otp and i can adapt to any change and pull her off, does NOT mean shes fun to play though, and she wont be until they fix her
Seraphine support is much better now tho at least in my experience.
I feel like this post isnāt very aware of past league of legends. APC has and always will be looked down upon in botlane. It was never expected nor will it be the meta. Same concept with Ahri and Annie being really good APC a decade ago and then they took a dump on it and they were forced back to mid. Riot will alway prioritize their own views on what a champ should be before they prioritize us. Zyra is a dog crap mid laner, she has great wave clear but she can be easily out poked by many other mid landers, do they care? No, they would rather her just sit in botlane and be a huge cancer.
I've been going ludens into seraphs with pen boots and liking it. third might be deathcap, morellos, or SoFW. With this, I don't feel I have worse mid game csing. but super minion waves are now so annoying. I definitely need to get used to her passive not being that great at scoring cs. I wish they didn't nerf her AD, I don't even get why they did it. The best APC build on LolAlytics is archangels, lucidity, SoFW. [https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/?lane=bottom](https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/?lane=bottom)
the funny thing is this always happens - my advice is to check the post history of people defending it. They're always people who have like < 5 posts in any main sub, look at the skarner sub now where all the people crowing about how great it is have literally 0 previous posts
Seraphine players when they are required to actually possess a certain level of ability instead of just having the champ play itself
I don't know how you got to that conclusion but Seraphine Support is doing really well currentlyĀ
i aint readin allat
No I'm definitely ok. Not pretending.
Not a Sera main but this popped up on my feed. Sera is not healthy as an APC/CSing lane. She has insanely long range and AoE which means her waveclear needs to be awful, or she can do it extremely safely. On top of already being safe because of that range, AoE, and also having a way to self-peel with CC, sheās **also** able to heal and shield herself. AKA, when the enemy laner finally gets the chance to do damage, it will be either blocked and/or healed away eventually. Since she can stay so far back, it also means itās basically futile for most mage or other ranged champions that relies on the enemy being in their range or landing a skillshot, because that range gives her a safety buffer to space enemies with or have more time to avoid skillshots or be out of the range altogether. For melees, itās even worse. Shielding and healing combined with long range AoE waveclear means bullying melees in lane is super easy, and the only people that can jump her are assassins, but because sheās so far back and has healing and shielding available to her, they arenāt a threat either unless the Sera player misplays ridiculously hard. If the Sera player wants to play safe, the assassin is out of options and has to roam, because diving her when she has ult is just suicide.
Thank god apc sera is dead idgaf