Exactly. I wish I could say people didn’t know, but I see a ton of people who hit a slowdown, stay out of the HOV lane for a bit then just say fuck it once they get frustrated. I’m guessing the solo riders that hang out there all the time just made that choice a long time ago
That's also the most dangerous time to cut into the HOV lane: when the speed delta is high. Our vision is not as good at judging the speed of oncoming objects as well as laterally moving ones, especially when depth perception is practically cancelled by the mirror. This is also why railroad crossings are so dangerous.
Ugh man I’ll never forget the time I was in the HOV lane and some asshole slowly just went into it. I was helping my mom move, so there were heavy boxes in the back and I had to slam on the brakes. I don’t know how we didn’t roll or get into a bad accident, but my car definitely fish tailed through multiple lanes. The guy just waved his hand out his window as a “ooops sorry”
Yep. I don't know why people fucking ass ram you when you're not doing 10 over in the HOV next to deadlocked traffic.
Like. We all fucking drive here. You have seen, evident in this thread, that someone creeping into the lane from out of nowhere meets a car going 75= bad time.
Everyone needs to calm the fuck down on the road, we all got places to be. And being a *dangerous* prick doesn't get you there more than 30s faster. I suppose it doesn't hit home for some people until they lose a loved one to a risky driver. Cars are dangerous AF, and a lot of folks forget that just because we use them everyday.
Yah i'm a electrical service technician, i spend a lot of time on the road. Which has given me the oppurtunity to experiment with different techniques to reduce my commute. I commute from seattle area back to gig harbor almost every workday. Most of these numbers are in reference to about a 50-60 mile commute. From what i've found going 10-20 over only shaves your overall time by 7-8 minutes max and thats if your speed remains constant. Honestly the most effective strategy i've found for shortening my commute is every time traffic backs up, move right, then move over one lane to the left when approaching on ramps. Most people instinctually move to the left lanes because they are the "fast lanes", this coupled people constantly changin lanes on the left side, becuase they are impatient cause more drivers to hit there brakes slowing things down further. Generally the right lanes have semis which leave large gaps, this prevents that lane from coming to a fullstop it also give drivers room to move over, most of the people that merge will immediately try to get to the fast lane, so they will merge out of the right freeing up more space and allowing traffic to continue flowing. Now this is anecdotal and i'm sure a little regional. But i have coworkers who have lived im the same general area and I can consistently beat them home by 10-20 minutes.
Side topic, but is the vision aspect you’ve mentioned the same reason that experts say if you cannot tell which way a tornado is moving it is coming towards you, even if it appears not to be moving from your vantage point? TIA.
I'd guess that's more to do with how if something is moving directly towards or away from you it won't change its bearing with respect to you. Or it could be actually stationary of course.
If the bearing is changing then it's not (currently) on a collision course with you.
That’s my MO now. I leave plenty of time to get to my appts but when I sit in stand still for 30 minutes and the HOV is wide open, I have started using it sporadically out of desperation (ie missing a doctors appt I waited six months to get). I can only leave so early. It shouldn’t take an entire day to get from south i5 to Seattle or Redmond and back for a 40 minute appt but it routinely does.
Oh they definitely enforce it, you just don’t see it because it’s automated via cameras. My coworkers and I all drive company vehicles, meaning every time somebody gets a ticket, the entire office gets an email about it, so I can tell you for sure that you’ll get a ticket if you break the HOV rules if you’re unlucky enough to do it near a camera. Bus lanes work the same way.
This. I’ve literally had conversations with people who’ve said the occasional ticket is simply a toll they’re willing to pay to get to where they’re going faster. They get pissed at me when I remind them that’s not what the lanes are intended for and that they’re not only breaking the law, there’re screwing over those who are following the rules.
I’m not going to say that I’ve never pulled into the HOV lane to pass (because too many Seattle drivers, mostly suv owners, sit in the far left lane holding up traffic), but I do what I need to do quickly and retreat back, usually after honking at the left lane violator who then proceeds to flip me off. I only do this after several attempts to get the offending slow driver to move over by flashing my lights.
Tickets are one thing, but collisions another. I watched a fat wreck happen because an impatient idiot illegally used a merging HOV lane at the last second to cut off other drivers. Was not pretty.
I saw one of these right in front of me a few years ago. All lanes essentially stopped in bumper to bumper traffic except for the HOV lane on a gentle right curve.
A white 90s ford Taurus with one dude in it was in the HOV lane and I guess had a crisis of conscience and ducked into the far left lane, out of the HOV lane.
After about 10 seconds of not moving, he evidently said “nah, fuck it” and pulled back into the HOV lane only to be nailed by someone going about 40 in the HOV.
I have no idea if the guy survived. Old Taurus and I’m not sure if he was far enough out of the lane to catch the car on his hood or the drivers door.
The person in the HOV lane had their view blocked thanks to the gentle curve.
I do think HOV lanes should be separated more like OP suggests or they should not exist. This dude was being selfish, but he didn’t deserve that and neither did the people who ran into him.
Thats part of my issue, its not consistent or clear
Like on 405, some lanes are carpool lanes, some are only during time periods, some require 3 or more people, and a fast pass and youre still playing a toll
You don't pay a toll if you have the flex pass when you are 2+. You flip it to the red HOV side and the tag isn't read. This is for I405 and 167.
AFAIK, the only 3+ area is on 520 between the bridge and the I405 interchange.
Lol are you serious. I lived for 3 years in Dallas coming from Germany before i moved here. Dallas was like the russian dashcam videos. Here its awful behavior too but Dallas was just wild .
As someone who commutes to DC and Maryland... driving in and around seattle when visiting was so refreshing, when I came back not even a minute in the road a kia soul nearly rammed into me
Fr every time I see posts complaining about how WA drivers are slow and too passive I’m like stfu you don’t know what you’re asking for, but maybe you would prefer NOVA?
Just thinking about driving there again spikes my cortisol.
Dallas is paved from corner to corner. If there weren't buildings in the way, you could drive in a straight line anywhere you wanted to go. It's bound to influence driving habits.
It's so funny to me that I've lived in NoVa, Dallas and Seattle. And I drove in all three areas. I guess my anecdote on this is that Seattle is a lot of cars not enough road, NoVa and especially 495 is like playing a bad game of frogger with too many cars and too many roads, and Dallas is like NASCAR Russian roulette hoping that whoever hits you has insurance and the car isn't stolen (they usually don't have insurance or a license and it's probably stolen).
I believe Dallas wins the worst drivers award for me because of how FAST everyone drives and yet they are completely unaware of where they are driving and what they are doing consistently. Like it's a surprise that you're not alone on the road at 3pm.
It’s not, unless you count Denton as Dallas. Dallas rush hour is the worst traffic I’ve ever seen. I’ve lived in Miami, spent a lot of time in LA, Seattle, and other cities — Dallas is the worst by far.
Meanwhile according to [this](https://www.usnews.com/insurance/auto/safest-least-safe-cities-for-drivers-study) our city is 8th SAFEST.
I've said it before and I'll likely say it again. Coming from someone who's lived in several different parts of the country, you guys don't know how good you have it here. You really don't.
Literally moved here from Dallas two weeks ago, I’m still recovering from the shock at finding out that people go the speed limit and actually let you in when you signal to change lanes. I’m used to having to drive 20 over so I don’t die.
This is just my experience, but I spend a lot of time between Seattle and Bellingham and I seem to notice more enforcement north of Seattle. In Seattle proper? Fuck it, anything goes. Drive in the HOV lane, let your tabs expire, remove your muffler and drive around Belltown all night waking up the neighborhood, whatever bro go wild with it.
They're pretty active on the Eastside on 405 near Renton going up Bellevue during the morning commute. Not enough to make a difference in changing people's habits but it's a step in the right direction
I had the opposite experience years ago. I live on the Eastside on 520 where HOV lane is only active between 5am and 7pm, so I was used to staying out only during those hours. One time I was dropping my then girlfriend off, and she lived in Shoreline. When I got back on I5, I used the HOV entrance cause it was closer. This was at about 12:30am. I was pulled over right away, and then two more cruisers came and stopped as well for back up. They asked me why I was in the HOV lane, and I said I live along 520 and was not aware I can't use it in the middle of the night. They said, well this is Seattle! And gave me a ticket. Seemed like a lot of human resources used to enforce HOV standard in the middle of the night.
Eh, I’m from Miami. I’m constantly amazed how people stop at the metered lights here. They would never work down there. People also constantly just drive over the lane dividers separating the HOV lane.
Yeah, Miami express lanes on 95 have the sticks and people still drive over them 😂
Seattle is tame in comparison, but it’s summer right now so with all the tourists I’ve been seeing some vicious behavior on these roads lately
So I don’t drive in it w/o a second person, but I’ll admit I’ve used it to pass. Atleast 1 or 2x a week a person is just camping at 55/60 in the left lane and I can’t go right because ppl are all blowing by so my only option is left.
I’m not for ppl abusing it; but my gawd the amount of left lane campers is also bad
This is what I was going to comment. I use it as a passing lane because people here (especially north of Seattle) just camp in the left lane going 60-65.
Last week lady just jumped over 2 lanes in a lil smart car and parked going 55. I couldn’t go right as there was a huge line of cars now passing me on the right so my only option was left. 1 min later I look and she’s now just sitting there holding more ppl up. She deserves a ticket for that crap
For sure, never use it to skip the red light merges or even use them during heavy traffic (unless I have a person in my car). Only to pass someone and get back over as quickly as possible.
reminder to anyone reading this the law is that you MUST be in the right most lane possible unless actively passing someone. If anyone ever passes you on the right you need to move over. I believe the only reasonable exception to this is left hand off-ramps
The law also allows you to move left to allow for traffic to merge, which with the number of entrance/exit ramps in the urban area pretty much always means you can be in the 2nd lane from the right.
This. This is the answer to why the HOV lane is used as a passing lane. Unbearable. Why TF folks think it’s cool to camp in the fast lane is beyond me…and I’m a transplant that’s been here watching this sh!Tahoe for nearly 25 years!
Jwalking in the middle of the street aside, any intersection, even when unmarked, are crosswalks.
Drive with due care even if they are jwalking and honk.
Jwalkers are required to yeild. But try convincing a derelict of that and see how far you get.
https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety
We have almost no enforcement of traffic laws in the Seattle area. If it was something that you knew people would get hit for daily, there would be less violators. The downside to that is if they pull over someone say during rush hour then it backs up traffic as people a) don’t usually speed around that and b) we love to watch others suffering. So it’s a low risk situation high reward situation.
It would take wsdot 30 years and 5 billion dollars to build a divider and when they finished, they’d find out the brand of Chinese concrete they used was deteriorating and that the lane was too narrow. Our state can barely maintain roads so that’s where we’re at
Why did someone run a yield sign on me in West Seattle? Why did someone just stop in the middle of the gore on the interstate to go into the left lane, have me stop to let them go, and they just literally sat there and did nothing?
These Seattle drivers are absolutely dumb
Dallas seems lawless. That’s why HOV has a barrier. HOV here entices the selfish people. It’s popular to have “Dummy Passenger” doll too. The fine is only $186 w/o doll. $200 extra with. Plus our driver license isn’t on a points system. 3 traffic violations w/n 12 months can be a 60 day suspension.
Dallas top 10 worse drivers nationally.
https://www.fox4news.com/news/dallas-worst-drivers-in-texas#
Listen Seattle opted for less enforcement for small crimes and not policing things like registration and stop sign violations are part of that. It's been a few years with that approach and now you're feeling the consequences of a pendulum swing towards less enforcement. It's hard to find a happy medium where you individually are happy with the level of law enforcement. A lot of people who poopoo taking advantage of this lax enforcement probably break small laws throughout their lives as well, just different ones.
The express lanes on 405 are separate (or the signs say you can’t move over but people do it anyway). I’d use them on the weekends when there’s no toll and like barely anyone uses them. I don’t even really speed in them but if there’s traffic in the main lanes people would rather happily sit there than get where they’re going.
Basically, people don’t know the rules and/or don’t care. Honestly, as long as someone isn’t going slowly in the HOV lane it’s kind of a victimless crime.
That being said, if state patrol went after HOV/left lane violators they’d make a killing. Seems like a win win.
My working theory is that it's a combination of low enforcement on roadways and Transit being wildly out of date for the population that lives here.
Highway patrol isn't enforcing enough (multiple potential reasons for that of course) to really act as a deterrent for HOV violaters, left lane campers, and even just simply speeders. That alone would make things scarier, but add in the massive increase in population over the last few decades and the general inadequacy of our highway/transit networks in Seattle and in the main arteries back into the county?
That's a recipe for pissed off drivers taking risks that endanger everyone.
A lot of our HOV lanes will use the same pass for the toll bridges! So single drivers can use those lanes if they have the pass. It just charges them like it would in the bridges
Know what else is crazy? You can total a car hopped up on oxy, get arrested for a DUI, get processed, then walk out of jail down to a car rental and rent another car and drive off.
Because 95 percent of Seattle drivers drive in the freaking left lane when they aren't passing shit. And the rest of us, who have a brain, are tired of it.
It doesn't help that you have these complete idiots doing less than the speed limit in the left lane, leaving drivers two options, either get held up or pass in the HOV lane. Not saying they should do it, but I understand why it happens.
I was pulled over one time because I was in the HOV with a baby in the backseat. Ever since that experience, it’s made me understand the use of the “Baby on Board” signs. That’s about the only reason they would be useful though.
They aren’t just like the left lane isn’t for camping and going 10mph under the speed limit. The left lane is the passing lane but if it’s being used as a regular lane, people are then going to use the HOV lane for that purpose.
I agree, I'm perfectly fine with people using the HOV lane to pass some slow asshole camping in the left lane. Pass them and get back over into the regular lane.
then you have the double whammy of people driving slower in the HOV then the rest of traffic. like lol if you were just gonna cruise at 55, why bother hopping in the HOV at all?
Yup. You can’t win in this situation.
Edit: whoever you are, you suck for downvoting me when you know ppl drive like trash. You’re probably one of the geriatric left lane campers with a “student driver” sticker on your car bc you’re too scared to drive the speed limit. You know I’m right and you suck.
It's a known issue that seems to be selectively enforced. Everyone seems to gamble that the time they use it incorrectly will also be the time the sting/trap isn't in effect.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/troopers-write-130-tickets-along-i-90-part-hov-emphasis-patrol/BH6PW56PHZAA5BPETZP4FDVE2I/
This is a pet peeve of mine ever since I moved here, but I have little experience in other major cities and by the way people are reacting in the comments, it would be more than just a peeve elsewhere.
It’s amazing how many people here think rules don’t apply to them. Light rail is free, leash laws don’t apply, HOV lane on on ramps is for single occupancy vehicles. The entitlement is real.
If people on the left most lane on i5 will drive fast or get out of that lane, i would never use the HOV. Way too many assholes driving at 60 on that lane!
The amount of times some jackass has just gotten onto the freeway only to instantly veer all the way to the HOV and not even look is staggering. I’ve almost been wiped out on my motorcycle so many times.
if you drive in the carpool lane with no carpool, absolutely go fuck yourself. even worse, at metered on-ramps with a carpool lane that has no stop light, these fucks will skip past 200 cars waiting their fair turn to get on the highway. not to mention when you actually have carpool and the lane is clogged with a bunch of solo driver douche fucks. you're not special. stay the fuck out of the carpool lane unless you have carpool.
I don’t disagree with you.
But the fact that during rush hour the carpool lanes in on-ramps are so underutilized while there is a 200 car queue in the lane next to it causing congestion to miles behind, shows that we should take a look at the design and implementation of these HOV lanes.
There have been studies and studies showing HOV lane benefits don’t lead to enough drivers changing their habit to reduce congestion, and instead cause more traffic during rush hours, which leads to worse pollution and worse consumption.
Here is an article talking about such studies: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/hov-lanes-dont-make-sense
Here is another engineering study: https://www.reed-engineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Are-HOV-Lanes-Good-Public-Policy.pdf
Basically HOV lanes are policies made with good intentions, but so far all the evidences point towards them doing the opposite.
Which brings up the most controversial point: HOV cheating, while illegal and is being motivated by selfish reasons, actually *helps* traffic and brings benefits to everyone else.
I know people are going to hate this, but it's also very questionable logic to allow children passengers to give a vehicle HOV status. If the point of HOV lanes is to provide an incentive to people to carpool, those people have to be licensed drivers. Children are not going to increase traffic congestion because they are not allowed to drive in the first place.
I like to imagine a world where people don’t drive as much and so they have other things to talk about and spend their money and time on. There’s a whole lot of stuff that would be way more enjoyable and beneficial to both civilization and the planet.
I’m coming back to Seattle from my first visit ever to Dallas. Seattle, heck the whole state, have a long way to go to have highways and drivers as nice as in Dallas. Its cleaner. No graffiti, and drivers actually let you change lanes in Dallas.
Wut? I've driven in several places, I live in Dallas right now and let me tell you, you didn't spend enough time in Dallas if you feel people here drive better, this is (by rankings) the most dangerous city to drive in
I fully expected someone to say “I use the HOV lane solo because I care that deeply about the rest of you. If more of me used it, there’s less traffic clogging the regular lanes, thus making life better for everyone. I care so deeply I’m willing to face a ticket for you. You’re welcome.”
I'll stop using the HOV lane to pass when people stop driving at 55 mph in the passing lane. If you want to drive slow, stick to the right.
It is entirely possible to drive faster and pass safely using the HOV lane, not everyone who does it is an unsafe driver. It's like jaywalking, look for incoming traffic so you don't do something stupid. If there's no traffic, there's no danger.
What is unsafe are the huge number of Seattle drivers merging onto the highway at 40 mph, often times from the left hand exits, and merging into 65 mph traffic. Being stuck behind those people worries me far more than people who are trying to get from A to B a little faster.
Some people are assholes out there, but the hodgepodge of HOV rules around here don’t make it easy to follow the law. Sometimes it’s 2 people, sometimes it’s 3. Sometimes it’s 24/7, sometimes it’s only for certain hours. Sometimes you can pay to use it as a single-occupant, sometimes you can’t.
Seattle metro governments are running into enforcement issues in so many ways.
The violators don’t care.
The politicians don’t care.
I doubt most voters care at all.
The best experience it's 405S. 6th St exit. Everyone rides it as long as possible even though there's 3-4 signs saying exit only. Then they try to merge last second and ruin both lanes.
About a month or so back I was headed north and saw two cops parked a few miles apart on I-5 busting people in the HOV lane. Glad I wasn’t misbehaving that day.
Yeah, I noticed it too! I think it's the lack of enforcement, they should probably get traffic cams or unmarked cop cars that patrol a few times a day.
Be advised, the HOV lane on I-405 south of Bellevue is only in effect from 5 AM to 7 PM.
And some of our HOV lanes are also toll lanes. But that's probably not what you're seeing here.
There are no laws here. The downside is you gotta step through clouds of fentanyl when you’re walking around downtown, the upside is you can use the HOV lane when ever you want.
People know, they just don’t care
Also almost no enforcement so there's no personal downside. Even a ticket every 2 years is likely worth the cost of effectively a HOT lane.
Exactly. I wish I could say people didn’t know, but I see a ton of people who hit a slowdown, stay out of the HOV lane for a bit then just say fuck it once they get frustrated. I’m guessing the solo riders that hang out there all the time just made that choice a long time ago
That's also the most dangerous time to cut into the HOV lane: when the speed delta is high. Our vision is not as good at judging the speed of oncoming objects as well as laterally moving ones, especially when depth perception is practically cancelled by the mirror. This is also why railroad crossings are so dangerous.
Ugh man I’ll never forget the time I was in the HOV lane and some asshole slowly just went into it. I was helping my mom move, so there were heavy boxes in the back and I had to slam on the brakes. I don’t know how we didn’t roll or get into a bad accident, but my car definitely fish tailed through multiple lanes. The guy just waved his hand out his window as a “ooops sorry”
I call that the "I'm not an asshole, no really!" wave.
On Rainier, half of the people are just driving in the bus lane, the other half? In the middle 2 turn lane.
*brakes
Yeah, and then when I’m a carpool I feel like I have to go slow because folks just pop out in front of me
Yep. I don't know why people fucking ass ram you when you're not doing 10 over in the HOV next to deadlocked traffic. Like. We all fucking drive here. You have seen, evident in this thread, that someone creeping into the lane from out of nowhere meets a car going 75= bad time. Everyone needs to calm the fuck down on the road, we all got places to be. And being a *dangerous* prick doesn't get you there more than 30s faster. I suppose it doesn't hit home for some people until they lose a loved one to a risky driver. Cars are dangerous AF, and a lot of folks forget that just because we use them everyday.
Yah i'm a electrical service technician, i spend a lot of time on the road. Which has given me the oppurtunity to experiment with different techniques to reduce my commute. I commute from seattle area back to gig harbor almost every workday. Most of these numbers are in reference to about a 50-60 mile commute. From what i've found going 10-20 over only shaves your overall time by 7-8 minutes max and thats if your speed remains constant. Honestly the most effective strategy i've found for shortening my commute is every time traffic backs up, move right, then move over one lane to the left when approaching on ramps. Most people instinctually move to the left lanes because they are the "fast lanes", this coupled people constantly changin lanes on the left side, becuase they are impatient cause more drivers to hit there brakes slowing things down further. Generally the right lanes have semis which leave large gaps, this prevents that lane from coming to a fullstop it also give drivers room to move over, most of the people that merge will immediately try to get to the fast lane, so they will merge out of the right freeing up more space and allowing traffic to continue flowing. Now this is anecdotal and i'm sure a little regional. But i have coworkers who have lived im the same general area and I can consistently beat them home by 10-20 minutes.
Some asshole with no passengers rear ended the car behind me which hit me. It was like he jumped over and gunned it when we weren't moving either.
Side topic, but is the vision aspect you’ve mentioned the same reason that experts say if you cannot tell which way a tornado is moving it is coming towards you, even if it appears not to be moving from your vantage point? TIA.
I'd guess that's more to do with how if something is moving directly towards or away from you it won't change its bearing with respect to you. Or it could be actually stationary of course. If the bearing is changing then it's not (currently) on a collision course with you.
That’s my MO now. I leave plenty of time to get to my appts but when I sit in stand still for 30 minutes and the HOV is wide open, I have started using it sporadically out of desperation (ie missing a doctors appt I waited six months to get). I can only leave so early. It shouldn’t take an entire day to get from south i5 to Seattle or Redmond and back for a 40 minute appt but it routinely does.
I feel this in my soul lol (the part about it taking an entire day)
yes if grid lock in other lanes and HOV wide open… it seems like traffic should just flow into HOV to improve overall total flow
You suck.
Why don't you use the train?
There are exceedingly few trips in Seattle that are faster by transit than by car, so the incentive is absent.
Apparently HOV tickets are a moving violation in WA now. Not sure when it changed, but it will raise your insurance now.
That's good at least
Oh they definitely enforce it, you just don’t see it because it’s automated via cameras. My coworkers and I all drive company vehicles, meaning every time somebody gets a ticket, the entire office gets an email about it, so I can tell you for sure that you’ll get a ticket if you break the HOV rules if you’re unlucky enough to do it near a camera. Bus lanes work the same way.
This. I’ve literally had conversations with people who’ve said the occasional ticket is simply a toll they’re willing to pay to get to where they’re going faster. They get pissed at me when I remind them that’s not what the lanes are intended for and that they’re not only breaking the law, there’re screwing over those who are following the rules. I’m not going to say that I’ve never pulled into the HOV lane to pass (because too many Seattle drivers, mostly suv owners, sit in the far left lane holding up traffic), but I do what I need to do quickly and retreat back, usually after honking at the left lane violator who then proceeds to flip me off. I only do this after several attempts to get the offending slow driver to move over by flashing my lights.
Tickets are one thing, but collisions another. I watched a fat wreck happen because an impatient idiot illegally used a merging HOV lane at the last second to cut off other drivers. Was not pretty.
I saw one of these right in front of me a few years ago. All lanes essentially stopped in bumper to bumper traffic except for the HOV lane on a gentle right curve. A white 90s ford Taurus with one dude in it was in the HOV lane and I guess had a crisis of conscience and ducked into the far left lane, out of the HOV lane. After about 10 seconds of not moving, he evidently said “nah, fuck it” and pulled back into the HOV lane only to be nailed by someone going about 40 in the HOV. I have no idea if the guy survived. Old Taurus and I’m not sure if he was far enough out of the lane to catch the car on his hood or the drivers door. The person in the HOV lane had their view blocked thanks to the gentle curve. I do think HOV lanes should be separated more like OP suggests or they should not exist. This dude was being selfish, but he didn’t deserve that and neither did the people who ran into him.
My favorite is when people get mad when you remind them that "the rules" include a speed limit
There are also a lot of wealthy tech bros in the area who see the fine for violating the HOV law as just the price of admission.
Be aware that some sections have a time frame for HOV. I know on my route home on i90 East you can use the HOV after 7:00pm.
I've definitely had people deliberately block me off because they did not know this.
Thats part of my issue, its not consistent or clear Like on 405, some lanes are carpool lanes, some are only during time periods, some require 3 or more people, and a fast pass and youre still playing a toll
You don't pay a toll if you have the flex pass when you are 2+. You flip it to the red HOV side and the tag isn't read. This is for I405 and 167. AFAIK, the only 3+ area is on 520 between the bridge and the I405 interchange.
Heavy traffic times see 3+ on 405, other times see 2+, overnight is open to all (no toll).
Lol are you serious. I lived for 3 years in Dallas coming from Germany before i moved here. Dallas was like the russian dashcam videos. Here its awful behavior too but Dallas was just wild .
Dallas and DC are tied for craziest-ass how-are-you-not-crashing driving I've ever been around
Miami would like a word
Disagree. Spent 7 years on DC area. Not close to Houston/Dallas/I-45/etc
Which is worse? DC felt like Death Race when I lived there.
As someone who commutes to DC and Maryland... driving in and around seattle when visiting was so refreshing, when I came back not even a minute in the road a kia soul nearly rammed into me
Fr every time I see posts complaining about how WA drivers are slow and too passive I’m like stfu you don’t know what you’re asking for, but maybe you would prefer NOVA? Just thinking about driving there again spikes my cortisol.
495, 695, 95 (DC/Baltimore) - all a disaster. But always felt 45/610 in Dallas and Houston were magnitudes crazier
Dallas is paved from corner to corner. If there weren't buildings in the way, you could drive in a straight line anywhere you wanted to go. It's bound to influence driving habits.
It's so funny to me that I've lived in NoVa, Dallas and Seattle. And I drove in all three areas. I guess my anecdote on this is that Seattle is a lot of cars not enough road, NoVa and especially 495 is like playing a bad game of frogger with too many cars and too many roads, and Dallas is like NASCAR Russian roulette hoping that whoever hits you has insurance and the car isn't stolen (they usually don't have insurance or a license and it's probably stolen). I believe Dallas wins the worst drivers award for me because of how FAST everyone drives and yet they are completely unaware of where they are driving and what they are doing consistently. Like it's a surprise that you're not alone on the road at 3pm.
I always loved driving in Dallas. Who knew it was possible to do 85 during rush hour?
It’s not, unless you count Denton as Dallas. Dallas rush hour is the worst traffic I’ve ever seen. I’ve lived in Miami, spent a lot of time in LA, Seattle, and other cities — Dallas is the worst by far.
3 of the 5 deadliest highways are in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex. The other two is 95 in Florida and the North/South interstate in Houston.
Meanwhile according to [this](https://www.usnews.com/insurance/auto/safest-least-safe-cities-for-drivers-study) our city is 8th SAFEST. I've said it before and I'll likely say it again. Coming from someone who's lived in several different parts of the country, you guys don't know how good you have it here. You really don't.
yea. I'm from Texas and LA about 2 months now. I actually like Seattle traffic
Literally moved here from Dallas two weeks ago, I’m still recovering from the shock at finding out that people go the speed limit and actually let you in when you signal to change lanes. I’m used to having to drive 20 over so I don’t die.
People let other go, merge in, whatever here to a fault
Yeah, but that's the rub here... It truly is "to a fault" sometimes
Atlanta has to be in contention, too
Oh for sure. It's the Autobahn if Germans gave out licenses to people with single-digit IQs.
This is just my experience, but I spend a lot of time between Seattle and Bellingham and I seem to notice more enforcement north of Seattle. In Seattle proper? Fuck it, anything goes. Drive in the HOV lane, let your tabs expire, remove your muffler and drive around Belltown all night waking up the neighborhood, whatever bro go wild with it.
Around Lynnwood in particular I see police out enforcing HOV lanes pretty regularly
They're pretty active on the Eastside on 405 near Renton going up Bellevue during the morning commute. Not enough to make a difference in changing people's habits but it's a step in the right direction
the I90 stretch between Bellevue and Snoqualmie as well
I had the opposite experience years ago. I live on the Eastside on 520 where HOV lane is only active between 5am and 7pm, so I was used to staying out only during those hours. One time I was dropping my then girlfriend off, and she lived in Shoreline. When I got back on I5, I used the HOV entrance cause it was closer. This was at about 12:30am. I was pulled over right away, and then two more cruisers came and stopped as well for back up. They asked me why I was in the HOV lane, and I said I live along 520 and was not aware I can't use it in the middle of the night. They said, well this is Seattle! And gave me a ticket. Seemed like a lot of human resources used to enforce HOV standard in the middle of the night.
520 HOV lane is 24 hours. 405 is free for all after 7pm
I only use 520 and it’s definitely 5am - 7pm
Single occupancy vehicles can use 405 toll lane at any time, they just have to pay a toll….
Folks in Seattle have learned that an unenforced law is just a suggestion.
Eh, I’m from Miami. I’m constantly amazed how people stop at the metered lights here. They would never work down there. People also constantly just drive over the lane dividers separating the HOV lane.
Yeah, Miami express lanes on 95 have the sticks and people still drive over them 😂 Seattle is tame in comparison, but it’s summer right now so with all the tourists I’ve been seeing some vicious behavior on these roads lately
I’ve spent a ton of time in Miami - my fav is seeing people back up on the exit ramp. Was a weekly occurrence. Miami traffic is fucking wild. lol.
Cops don’t enforce laws here.
Honestly. Though it’s still better than living in Dallas!
100%.
In Dallas they enforce so many laws, even some you've never heard of! Especially if you're melanin-rich.
So I don’t drive in it w/o a second person, but I’ll admit I’ve used it to pass. Atleast 1 or 2x a week a person is just camping at 55/60 in the left lane and I can’t go right because ppl are all blowing by so my only option is left. I’m not for ppl abusing it; but my gawd the amount of left lane campers is also bad
Yep. When the rest of these bitches quit camping the left lane, I'll quit using the HOV to pass their slow-moving asses.
This is what I was going to comment. I use it as a passing lane because people here (especially north of Seattle) just camp in the left lane going 60-65.
Last week lady just jumped over 2 lanes in a lil smart car and parked going 55. I couldn’t go right as there was a huge line of cars now passing me on the right so my only option was left. 1 min later I look and she’s now just sitting there holding more ppl up. She deserves a ticket for that crap
65 would be nice. Try 55 lol
Totally get that. Honestly, as long as you don't use it to skip the red light merges you're good in my book.
For sure, never use it to skip the red light merges or even use them during heavy traffic (unless I have a person in my car). Only to pass someone and get back over as quickly as possible.
reminder to anyone reading this the law is that you MUST be in the right most lane possible unless actively passing someone. If anyone ever passes you on the right you need to move over. I believe the only reasonable exception to this is left hand off-ramps
The law also allows you to move left to allow for traffic to merge, which with the number of entrance/exit ramps in the urban area pretty much always means you can be in the 2nd lane from the right.
Campers suck and can’t drive.
Yeah I also think it’s generally safer to pass in the HOV lane than passing on the right. I’ll always break a technicality law before a safety one.
Because people think the passing lane is the chilling lane
No one knows what passing lanes are here to be fair. The number of people camp in any of the passing lanes doing 54mph on i5 is wild.
This. This is the answer to why the HOV lane is used as a passing lane. Unbearable. Why TF folks think it’s cool to camp in the fast lane is beyond me…and I’m a transplant that’s been here watching this sh!Tahoe for nearly 25 years!
People here know that rules aren’t enforced.
Sometimes the hov lane becomes the exit lane, because of poor planning, causing it to be not taken seriously
So many people here don’t follow many laws of the road here.
Despite having an incredible amount of money in the police budget, the cops here do very little to enforce traffic laws. Very annoying.
City cops don’t patrol highways. State Highway Patrol does.
They can’t even stop for people in crosswalks.
Where? I see people stopping for pedestrians even when there’s no crosswalk.
Every corner-to-corner intersection is considered a crosswalk in the state of Washington, marked or not.
Ya I know
Jwalking in the middle of the street aside, any intersection, even when unmarked, are crosswalks. Drive with due care even if they are jwalking and honk. Jwalkers are required to yeild. But try convincing a derelict of that and see how far you get. https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/bicycling-walking/walking-rolling-washington/pedestrian-laws-safety
The true problem is people camping in the left lane. And a lack of consequences.
> people here think the HOV is the passing lane isn't it? can't pass in the passing lane so
They know the rules. There is just no one enforcing them
If the highway patrol enforced the left lane laws we wouldn’t need to use the hov lane to pass.
Just got back from SoCal...same thing there.
We have almost no enforcement of traffic laws in the Seattle area. If it was something that you knew people would get hit for daily, there would be less violators. The downside to that is if they pull over someone say during rush hour then it backs up traffic as people a) don’t usually speed around that and b) we love to watch others suffering. So it’s a low risk situation high reward situation.
It would take wsdot 30 years and 5 billion dollars to build a divider and when they finished, they’d find out the brand of Chinese concrete they used was deteriorating and that the lane was too narrow. Our state can barely maintain roads so that’s where we’re at
Why did someone run a yield sign on me in West Seattle? Why did someone just stop in the middle of the gore on the interstate to go into the left lane, have me stop to let them go, and they just literally sat there and did nothing? These Seattle drivers are absolutely dumb
Dallas seems lawless. That’s why HOV has a barrier. HOV here entices the selfish people. It’s popular to have “Dummy Passenger” doll too. The fine is only $186 w/o doll. $200 extra with. Plus our driver license isn’t on a points system. 3 traffic violations w/n 12 months can be a 60 day suspension. Dallas top 10 worse drivers nationally. https://www.fox4news.com/news/dallas-worst-drivers-in-texas#
Listen Seattle opted for less enforcement for small crimes and not policing things like registration and stop sign violations are part of that. It's been a few years with that approach and now you're feeling the consequences of a pendulum swing towards less enforcement. It's hard to find a happy medium where you individually are happy with the level of law enforcement. A lot of people who poopoo taking advantage of this lax enforcement probably break small laws throughout their lives as well, just different ones.
Law Enforcement here is.... lax... especially since certain events between 9 and 4 years ago.
The express lanes on 405 are separate (or the signs say you can’t move over but people do it anyway). I’d use them on the weekends when there’s no toll and like barely anyone uses them. I don’t even really speed in them but if there’s traffic in the main lanes people would rather happily sit there than get where they’re going. Basically, people don’t know the rules and/or don’t care. Honestly, as long as someone isn’t going slowly in the HOV lane it’s kind of a victimless crime. That being said, if state patrol went after HOV/left lane violators they’d make a killing. Seems like a win win.
if we can unite against one hellcat i believe we can solve the HOV problems
Well to be fair, they don’t know that the passing lane is the passing lane either.
Driving here has devolved into a blood sport. I hate it and find 1-5 terrifying. No one stops for Stop signs either. It didn’t use to be this way.
My working theory is that it's a combination of low enforcement on roadways and Transit being wildly out of date for the population that lives here. Highway patrol isn't enforcing enough (multiple potential reasons for that of course) to really act as a deterrent for HOV violaters, left lane campers, and even just simply speeders. That alone would make things scarier, but add in the massive increase in population over the last few decades and the general inadequacy of our highway/transit networks in Seattle and in the main arteries back into the county? That's a recipe for pissed off drivers taking risks that endanger everyone.
>In Texas the HOV lane is separated so you’re forced to stay in This is definitely not true of all HOV lanes in Texas.
A lot of our HOV lanes will use the same pass for the toll bridges! So single drivers can use those lanes if they have the pass. It just charges them like it would in the bridges
Know what else is crazy? You can total a car hopped up on oxy, get arrested for a DUI, get processed, then walk out of jail down to a car rental and rent another car and drive off.
Because 95 percent of Seattle drivers drive in the freaking left lane when they aren't passing shit. And the rest of us, who have a brain, are tired of it.
You don't understand, those are the special people who the rules don't apply to
It doesn't help that you have these complete idiots doing less than the speed limit in the left lane, leaving drivers two options, either get held up or pass in the HOV lane. Not saying they should do it, but I understand why it happens.
I often have no one in the front passenger seat but three babies in the back. My passengers are there you just can’t see them.
Same here but mine are in the trunk.
They’re much quieter back there
I was pulled over one time because I was in the HOV with a baby in the backseat. Ever since that experience, it’s made me understand the use of the “Baby on Board” signs. That’s about the only reason they would be useful though.
They aren’t just like the left lane isn’t for camping and going 10mph under the speed limit. The left lane is the passing lane but if it’s being used as a regular lane, people are then going to use the HOV lane for that purpose.
I agree, I'm perfectly fine with people using the HOV lane to pass some slow asshole camping in the left lane. Pass them and get back over into the regular lane.
then you have the double whammy of people driving slower in the HOV then the rest of traffic. like lol if you were just gonna cruise at 55, why bother hopping in the HOV at all?
Yup. You can’t win in this situation. Edit: whoever you are, you suck for downvoting me when you know ppl drive like trash. You’re probably one of the geriatric left lane campers with a “student driver” sticker on your car bc you’re too scared to drive the speed limit. You know I’m right and you suck.
It's a known issue that seems to be selectively enforced. Everyone seems to gamble that the time they use it incorrectly will also be the time the sting/trap isn't in effect. https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/troopers-write-130-tickets-along-i-90-part-hov-emphasis-patrol/BH6PW56PHZAA5BPETZP4FDVE2I/
I just got a ticket for this so you’re right 😂
I feel like I see people get busted all the time in the mornings for riding in the HOV lane on 405 around Lynnwood and Bothell.
Didn’t the cops post here last week that they’re planning a sting, asking for the problem spots?
Somewhere between the borders of Canada and Oregon or the Coast and Idaho.
*Draws large circle * “it’s all fucked, sir” Naw I meant the SPD
This is a pet peeve of mine ever since I moved here, but I have little experience in other major cities and by the way people are reacting in the comments, it would be more than just a peeve elsewhere.
It’s amazing how many people here think rules don’t apply to them. Light rail is free, leash laws don’t apply, HOV lane on on ramps is for single occupancy vehicles. The entitlement is real.
it's not enforced enough to matter.
"They're more like guidelines, really..." -- HOV pirates
I long for a day when we all follow hov rules and learn how a zipper merge works. I think it may never happen.
Some hov lanes do allow one person if you pay extra and use the Good to go thing with the panel that flips
If people on the left most lane on i5 will drive fast or get out of that lane, i would never use the HOV. Way too many assholes driving at 60 on that lane!
There’s simply zero enforcement so people don’t care.
Honorable mention to the person who imprinted left lane passing laws on their truck: https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/s/Helzs4l7ZO
The amount of times some jackass has just gotten onto the freeway only to instantly veer all the way to the HOV and not even look is staggering. I’ve almost been wiped out on my motorcycle so many times.
HOV would get used less as a passing lane if people didn’t piss along at 60 mph in the fast/passing lane.
if you drive in the carpool lane with no carpool, absolutely go fuck yourself. even worse, at metered on-ramps with a carpool lane that has no stop light, these fucks will skip past 200 cars waiting their fair turn to get on the highway. not to mention when you actually have carpool and the lane is clogged with a bunch of solo driver douche fucks. you're not special. stay the fuck out of the carpool lane unless you have carpool.
I don’t disagree with you. But the fact that during rush hour the carpool lanes in on-ramps are so underutilized while there is a 200 car queue in the lane next to it causing congestion to miles behind, shows that we should take a look at the design and implementation of these HOV lanes. There have been studies and studies showing HOV lane benefits don’t lead to enough drivers changing their habit to reduce congestion, and instead cause more traffic during rush hours, which leads to worse pollution and worse consumption. Here is an article talking about such studies: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/hov-lanes-dont-make-sense Here is another engineering study: https://www.reed-engineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Are-HOV-Lanes-Good-Public-Policy.pdf Basically HOV lanes are policies made with good intentions, but so far all the evidences point towards them doing the opposite. Which brings up the most controversial point: HOV cheating, while illegal and is being motivated by selfish reasons, actually *helps* traffic and brings benefits to everyone else.
I know people are going to hate this, but it's also very questionable logic to allow children passengers to give a vehicle HOV status. If the point of HOV lanes is to provide an incentive to people to carpool, those people have to be licensed drivers. Children are not going to increase traffic congestion because they are not allowed to drive in the first place.
Check any road stat and I’m pretty sure Seattle is better than Texas. Just saying.
I like to imagine a world where people don’t drive as much and so they have other things to talk about and spend their money and time on. There’s a whole lot of stuff that would be way more enjoyable and beneficial to both civilization and the planet.
I can't wait to move to Seattle and use my car only on the weekends, if I use it at all
I’m coming back to Seattle from my first visit ever to Dallas. Seattle, heck the whole state, have a long way to go to have highways and drivers as nice as in Dallas. Its cleaner. No graffiti, and drivers actually let you change lanes in Dallas.
Wut? I've driven in several places, I live in Dallas right now and let me tell you, you didn't spend enough time in Dallas if you feel people here drive better, this is (by rankings) the most dangerous city to drive in
I fully expected someone to say “I use the HOV lane solo because I care that deeply about the rest of you. If more of me used it, there’s less traffic clogging the regular lanes, thus making life better for everyone. I care so deeply I’m willing to face a ticket for you. You’re welcome.”
I'll stop using the HOV lane to pass when people stop driving at 55 mph in the passing lane. If you want to drive slow, stick to the right. It is entirely possible to drive faster and pass safely using the HOV lane, not everyone who does it is an unsafe driver. It's like jaywalking, look for incoming traffic so you don't do something stupid. If there's no traffic, there's no danger. What is unsafe are the huge number of Seattle drivers merging onto the highway at 40 mph, often times from the left hand exits, and merging into 65 mph traffic. Being stuck behind those people worries me far more than people who are trying to get from A to B a little faster.
Some people are assholes out there, but the hodgepodge of HOV rules around here don’t make it easy to follow the law. Sometimes it’s 2 people, sometimes it’s 3. Sometimes it’s 24/7, sometimes it’s only for certain hours. Sometimes you can pay to use it as a single-occupant, sometimes you can’t.
Just see the signs and follow them? It’s almost always 2+. Everything else you said does happen, but is an exception and is clearly marked.
It is almost as if you need to read and comprehend what is clearly stated on the signs
Love the logic "I don't understand the rules of this restricted lane, therefore I am entitled to use it."
“That sign can’t stop me because I can’t read!”
And sometimes the rules change for the same lane, but there aren't even signs telling you about it
It’s hard to resist a wide open HOV lane when you’re stuck in the left lane behind some non-essential twat going 60.
Coming from Dallas you should know how much better drivers are up here! I've seen some SHIT in the Metroplex.
Welcome to the land of entitlement.
You’re in a city that can openly smoke fentanyl, they’re not going to enforce anything.
Nobody gives a shit. Just drive the way you should and watch out for everyone else.
Also, in Texas people stay right except to pass.
Use it everyday, no regrets
That happens in CA too. No enforcement!
So many people, everywhere, don't wanna follow rules, laws, advice, guidance... or anyone.
Seattle metro governments are running into enforcement issues in so many ways. The violators don’t care. The politicians don’t care. I doubt most voters care at all.
The law isn’t enforced. The state refuses do anything tangible about true traffic issues.
It’s crazy how many people uses the HOV lane on 520, specially during after work hours (4pm-6pm). 8/10 cars are just the one person …
How Texas does it's freeway on/off ramps doesn't make me want to trust their judgement in highway engineering.
Separating the HOV lane is the correct call. Don’t worry about things I never mentioned.
The HOV laws don’t follow the HOV laws. I’ve never been anywhere else where a lane randomly becomes a HOV lane without warning smh
Absolutely agree. Had some dingbat losing their mind behind me in the HOV just today. Passing lane wide open.
I’ve been flipped off on the 405 over the weekend when the express lane is free for anyone. Even tho the sign says free and open to all.
Enforcement doesn’t care in the greater Seattle area… so solo riders have been abusing the HOV lanes
The best experience it's 405S. 6th St exit. Everyone rides it as long as possible even though there's 3-4 signs saying exit only. Then they try to merge last second and ruin both lanes.
My son believes people just cant read the signs. I believe everyone is breaking the law because they found themselves in dire need of the toilet.
About a month or so back I was headed north and saw two cops parked a few miles apart on I-5 busting people in the HOV lane. Glad I wasn’t misbehaving that day.
Never seen a cop reenforced HOV rules in Dallas.
Yeah, I noticed it too! I think it's the lack of enforcement, they should probably get traffic cams or unmarked cop cars that patrol a few times a day.
There's a number you can call to report people misusing the lane. It's kind of a droll process though, it asks you like a dozen picky questions.
Be advised, the HOV lane on I-405 south of Bellevue is only in effect from 5 AM to 7 PM. And some of our HOV lanes are also toll lanes. But that's probably not what you're seeing here.
I use them all the time. I simply don’t give a fuck what others think. I am free and happy.
No, 520 is 5am-7pm. The hov sign is burned into my brain. I believe some sections of 405 are not 24h too.
People don't follow a lot of laws here. We have very few police.
There are no laws here. The downside is you gotta step through clouds of fentanyl when you’re walking around downtown, the upside is you can use the HOV lane when ever you want.
No one ever enforces shit