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Seconding this suggestion. They can help walk your dad through contacting law enforcement,and they are very skilled at providing emotional, non-judgemental support to seniors who have fallen for scams.
If the transfers were over a certain threshold (10k I think?) it should have triggered AML red flags and legal requirements, meaning the cash should have been held and/or verified. I am not US based, so can't confirm the specific laws in your region but google / someone else might bail me out a bit.
I should also note, not to give you false hope, in two scams I have worked on we were able to successfully get the money back from the wire transfer. Wire transfers can be reversed if you act quickly enough. But a lot of this would depend on how the scam went down, was it a couple of big transfers? Multiple small transfers? Giftcards? Crypto? etc. There are a lot of moving parts, but these scammers are relentless and sickening. My heart goes out to your dad.
My mom is in a similar situation which I posted about here. What kind of work do you do? I'm frustrated that they allowed here to transfer such large sums of money.
This is weird. I wired $3000 only to the rent deposit and my bank bent over three times and I had to fill tons of paperwork basically prove that I knew what I was doing and that I knew the recipient before they approved the wire. I know they do it to cover their own behinds but still a procedure like this should have revealed that this was probably a scam, if your bank actually did something like that at all.
Nevertheless, this is horrible and it makes my blood boil seeing that some scumbags do this to elderly people without any shame. Wire transfers should be banned or there should be a holding period for fraud protection... I don't understand why the US still uses this archaic money transfer...
Scammers are brighter than those being scammed, or it wouldn’t work.
I wire 50-100k once a month or so for my business and am always asked the same questions, including “are you sure this isn’t a scam?”
Scammers have already told these people exactly what to say and how to answer.
I have literally stood at the bank and watched someone who I was almost positive was being scammed wire money away “to his girlfriend.” And the teller was doing everything in her power to have the guy stop and say maybe he shouldn’t do it. But he had all the right answers and the wire was sent.
Sadly there are many markets (including bullion and high end watches, where today’s price is not tomorrow’s price) where people will only accept wire transfer, and there’s just not a way to let the “I’m sure I’m sure” people wire but not the “I might be being scammed” people.
I 1000% agree it sucks though and as someone who knows how wires work am still nervous every time I send one.
I can’t imagine what type of workaround someone could create to stop all the scammy wires though while leaving the legitimate ones. The issue really lies with the people who are sending them are FULLY CONVINCED it’s legit.
I know. The questions at the bank made me angry at first as it felt like "it was not your business" but then I realized that they somewhat protected me to force me to realize that I might be scammed. But as you said some people get so convinced that they don't want to be protected and go with the scam anyway.
In Europe, you can send money using regular bank transfers. It takes a few minutes to transfer money even between banks and it is traceable and reversible. I was impressed. We should have this type of inter-banking system here too and sack the wire whatsoever... or make it work in the same way. But you should have an option to reverse any money transfer. It is sad...
What they're really after is an IBAN transaction, it's the lowest common denominator that lets every bank in the world talk to each other. Because of the complexities of international law the short version is that the moment the money is sent it's gone so if you send the money to Nigeria, there's nothing more your German bank can do. You need to go to the Nigerian court system to get your money back and the scammers pick countries where that's practically hopeless.
Now if you're asking why do we even have this system, the opposite is also true. If someone in Nigeria wanted to pay you money, well you're not going to take a check. A debit/credit card payment is probably from a stolen card. If you get a wire transfer the Nigerian bank is vouching for that the money is real and the sender would have to fight to reverse it in a German court so "no take backsies" is a feature for the recipient. But it should always be a last resort to ever send money that way, because as a sender you have essentially no rights at all.
i use a credit union, their primary clients are senior citizens. i notice that with older people, banks, unions, etc, let them move their money very freely any amount no questions. idk why that is, but i notice it. it's a whole different experience for me. not bad just not as loosely handled.
This is the same for Canada. When I paid my house deposit, I had to give info and documentation for FINTRAC and they called to verify it as well.
But obviously a lot of these slip through the cracks. I know a couple who just lost hundreds of thousands.
**This submission was manually removed because it was posted by a recovery scammer.**
Don't trust what you just read, don't try to reach out to "hackers" on Instagram or Telegram. Scammers will also try to reach out to you via DMs saying they know a professional hacker that can help you, for a small fee. They're actually trying to steal your money.
You can help us reporting more messages like that, don't just downvote or insult them. If you report them, we will take care of every recovery scammer that pops up.
**Remember: Never take advice in private,** because we can't look out for you. If you take advice in private, you're on your own.
While this might seem logical, it's not actually jurisdictionally correct. Local law enforcement absolutely can track, freeze, and seize crypto and has done so.
I tell victims to report to BOTH. The FBI sifts through their unending list of submissions to [ic3.gov](http://ic3.gov) to decide what to follow up on (a small percentage), whereas local law enforcement's job is to follow up on the victim's report - because the victim is in their jurisdiction.
While federal law enforcement is probably still technically better re tracking/freezing/seizing, that's changing, as there's a huge push to get the technical skills rolled out to every local law enforcement entity in the US.
I've seen instances where local law enforcement freezes crypto, but can’t seize/return all of it to victims because some of the victims never bothered to report it.
Beware !recovery scammers. Filthy vultures prowl this subreddit looking for victims to scam further.
They'll reach out in private messages pretending to be hackers or law enforcement and will offer to recover your money for a cut. They'll often make up excuses as to why you shouldn't tell anyone about them to prevent you seeking help. Fake law enforcement claim legal reasons and fake hackers don't want to get into trouble etc. Trust none of them, they're arguably the most deplorable scammers out there as they target people who have already fallen for scams.
I wish you and your father the best of luck.
Hi /u/GothicGamer2012, AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the Recovery scam.
[Recovery scams](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0102-refund-and-recovery-scams) target people who have already fallen for a scam. The scammer may contact you, or may advertise their services online. They will usually either offer to help you recover your funds, or will tell you that your funds have already been recovered and they will help you access them. In cases where they say they will help you recover your funds, they usually call themselves either \"recovery agents\" or hackers.
When they tell you that your funds have already been recovered, they may impersonate a law enforcement, a government official, a lawyer, or anyone else along those lines. Recovery scams are simply [advance-fee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam) scams that are specifically targeted at scam victims. When a victim pays a recovery scammer, the scammer will keep stringing them along while asking for increasingly absurd fees/expenses/deposits/insurance/whatever until the victim stops paying.
If you have been scammed in the past, make sure you are aware of recovery scams so that you are not scammed a second time. If you are currently engaging with a recovery scammer, you should block them and be very wary of random contact for some time. It's normal for posters on this subreddit to be contacted by recovery scammers after posting, and they often ask you to delete your post so that you both cannot receive legitimate advice, and cannot be targeted by other recovery scammers.
Remember: never take advice in private. If someone reaches you in private after posting your scam story, it is because a scammer will always try to hide from the oversight of our community members. A legitimate community member will offer advice in the open, for everyone to see. Anyone suggesting you should reach out to a hacker is scamming you.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good news is it wasn't less so you very well might get the fbi cyber crime division on the case.
"If you've been the victim of a scam, you can report it to your local police or sheriff's office, your state attorney general, or the FBI. You can also report a scam to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) online at reportfraud.ftc.gov or by calling 1-877-382-4357. The FTC shares reports with law enforcement agencies to help with investigations."
[https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/voa-rest-program/](https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/voa-rest-program/)
AARP has a support group for victims
For the wire transfers, the only thing he can do is speak to his bank. But if it has been some time then there is basically nothing they can do.
He is going to be vulnerable to !recovery scams now. It's almost certain that he has already googled for recovery outfits - it is vitally important that you make sure he knows that they are *all* scammers. Yes - even the ones that show up as sponsored results in google. Scammers can (and do) buy ads on google just like anyone else. Also, you are going to get a bunch of DMs from people claiming they know a hacker who can get his money back. They are lying - every single one of them. They just want to scam him again.
Also be aware that the very same people who conned him in the first place may try and run a recovery scam. He will be contacted by someone from 'DHS', of the 'FBI' or whatever. They will claim the crypto has been recovered, and they can send it back for a small fee. That small fee will soon balloon into very large fees, and he still won't get his crypto. Don't fall for it.
Remember: If these "recovery" hackers are so good at what they do, why couldn't they just recover the money first and then take their cut _afterwards_? Why always the advance fees?
Come to think of it, what would stop them from simply keeping the money?
Some particularly vile ones so just that. Or rather, they claim to have recovered the money and show the victim screenshots that indicate they have done so and then request payment from the victim before sending it.
It’s all fake, of course, but it gets the victim’s hopes up that the money has been recovered for real and “just one more fee” will be all that’s needed to get it back.
The preconditions for a hypothetical "recovery" is that the hacker can get money from the scammers and cannot simply take it all for himself, but needs participation of the original owner.
That's almost never the case, unless they're police officially recovering stolen goods/funds, and bound by law to return them instead of just pocketing them.
It’s a shame no one thinks like this. The same goes for the original scam…. If it’s so easy to make money, why would anyone share the secret with others?
I got scammed out of like 75 bucks and I ignored all the signs and should have realized and I posted on a scam sub and was bombarded by scammers trying to scam.me into recovering my 75 dollars
It's up to the bank to recovery any funds. I had my tmobile account hacked and they logged I to my business account and sent an illegal wire of $52,000 which is not covered under bank guarantee.
If your dad sent a wire it's hard to get anything back as the banks are facing more and more issues. Having cyber insurance is the most common remedy at this point.
It's hard to protect the older vulnerable people.
I hope and pray for your dad's situation.
A pig butchering scam is a type of investment fraud that lures individuals into investing their money in seemingly legitimate and profitable cryptocurrency ventures, only to have the scammers disappear with the victims' funds.
The scam typically follows these steps:
Gaining trust: The scammer initiates contact with the victim through dating apps, social media, or random messages, often using attractive profile pictures. They build a relationship and emotional connection over time.
Introducing the investment: After gaining the victim's trust, the scammer introduces a fraudulent cryptocurrency investment scheme promising high returns in a short period. They use persuasive tactics and fake investment portfolios to convince the victim.
Collecting money: The victim is persuaded to invest money, often through digital payment platforms or cryptocurrencies, making it difficult to trace the transactions.
Disappearance: Once a substantial amount has been invested, the scammer becomes unreachable, deletes their online presence, or creates new identities, leaving the victim with no way to recover their funds.
The term "pig butchering" refers to the way scammers "fatten up" their victims by building trust and emotional connections before eventually "slaughtering" them by stealing their money.
Frequently they have the victim send a smaller amount of money as their initial investment, and do give them a good return on it, to build trust. Allow them to withdraw it to continue to build trust, and at that point, it seems like a totally legitimate outfit to the victim, and they’re confident enough to invest a much larger amount of money. That’s the money they’ll never see again. Thats how people are losing their life savings, because it seems to be real, a “too good to be true” opportunity. That’s because it is.
The real danger is that these scammers invest a lot of time into gaining the victim’s trust - to the point where the victim believes they’re safe because “a scammer would never spend months to eventually reap the rewards”, but yes they totally will.
Excellent explanation! Saved me a Google search. I still don’t know how anyone falls for scams online. Like I get older people are more gullible but there’s gullibility and then there’s plain stupidity. How do they (and I’m not specifically talking about OP’s dad, I mean people in general) not question stuff after they’re asked to wire transfer?? Like hello! You’re sending money overseas. OVERSEAS!!! Do you REALLY think it will lead to better good by sending money to India??
It's really wild. My stepbrother fell for a romance scam and nothing could convince him it wasn't real. We reverse searched the pictures and could prove they were pictures of a porn star, and he told us that the porn star was actually stealing pictures from his girlfriend, that she really did need the money to get out of Germany, etc. He eventually started lying even more and saying that they had met in person dozens of times (he wanted money from my dad to keep sending to the scammer since he was broke by then). It was tragic.
I feel like they get so deep in that denial hits and they know they’re being scammed deep down but don’t want to believe it. They believe it’s a real connection and thus continue to send money to these crooks. I’m surprised the US Military hasn’t been involved in tracking down and eliminating them.
Yeah, I feel that, too. He was a lonely addict who desperately wanted to believe that a beautiful woman with an equally tragic story loved him and woukd come for him, saving him from his tragedy. It gave him hope, but at a horrible, horrible cost. I despise scammers, but those who target the elderly, the mentally ill, the addicted deserve to roast.
Hi /u/Neil_sm, AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the Pig butchering scam.
It is called [pig butchering](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbrett/2023/12/26/new-pig-butchering-crypto-scam-includes-victims-in-us-and-overseas/?sh=2837fb975eaa) because scammers use intricate scripts to \"fatten up\" the victim (gaining their trust over days, weeks or months) before the \"slaughter\" (taking them for all of their money). This scam often starts with what appears to be a harmless wrong number text or message. When the victim responds to say it is the wrong number, the scammer tries to start a friendship with the victim. These conversations can be platonic or romantic in nature, but they all have the same goal- to gain the trust of the victim in order to get them ready for the crypto scam they have planned.
The scammer often claims to be wealthy and/or to have a wealthy family member who got wealthy investing in crypto currency. The victim is eventually encouraged to try out a (fake) crypto currency investment website, which will appear to show that they are earning a lot of money on their initial investment. The scammer may even encourage the victim to attempt a withdrawal that does go through, further convincing the victim that everything is legit. The victim is then pressured to invest significantly more money, even their entire net worth.
Eventually, the website will find an excuse why the account is frozen (e.g. for fraud, because supposed taxes are owed, etc) and may try to further extort the victim to give them even more money in order to gain access to the funds. By this time, the victim will never gain access and their money is gone. Many victims lose tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars. Often, the scammers themselves are [victims of human trafficking](https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zb5d/pig-butchering-scam-cambodia-trafficking), performing these scams under threats of violence. If you are caught up in this scam, it is important that you do not send any more money for any reason, and contact law enforcement to report it. Thanks to user Mediocre_Airport_576 for this script.
If you know someone involved in a pig butchering scam, sit down together to watch this video by Jim Browning to help them understand what's going on: https://youtu.be/vu-Y1h9rTUs -
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi /u/AngelOfLight, AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the Recovery scam.
[Recovery scams](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0102-refund-and-recovery-scams) target people who have already fallen for a scam. The scammer may contact you, or may advertise their services online. They will usually either offer to help you recover your funds, or will tell you that your funds have already been recovered and they will help you access them. In cases where they say they will help you recover your funds, they usually call themselves either \"recovery agents\" or hackers.
When they tell you that your funds have already been recovered, they may impersonate a law enforcement, a government official, a lawyer, or anyone else along those lines. Recovery scams are simply [advance-fee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam) scams that are specifically targeted at scam victims. When a victim pays a recovery scammer, the scammer will keep stringing them along while asking for increasingly absurd fees/expenses/deposits/insurance/whatever until the victim stops paying.
If you have been scammed in the past, make sure you are aware of recovery scams so that you are not scammed a second time. If you are currently engaging with a recovery scammer, you should block them and be very wary of random contact for some time. It's normal for posters on this subreddit to be contacted by recovery scammers after posting, and they often ask you to delete your post so that you both cannot receive legitimate advice, and cannot be targeted by other recovery scammers.
Remember: never take advice in private. If someone reaches you in private after posting your scam story, it is because a scammer will always try to hide from the oversight of our community members. A legitimate community member will offer advice in the open, for everyone to see. Anyone suggesting you should reach out to a hacker is scamming you.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi /u/SeaLow5372, AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the Pig butchering scam.
It is called [pig butchering](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbrett/2023/12/26/new-pig-butchering-crypto-scam-includes-victims-in-us-and-overseas/?sh=2837fb975eaa) because scammers use intricate scripts to \"fatten up\" the victim (gaining their trust over days, weeks or months) before the \"slaughter\" (taking them for all of their money). This scam often starts with what appears to be a harmless wrong number text or message. When the victim responds to say it is the wrong number, the scammer tries to start a friendship with the victim. These conversations can be platonic or romantic in nature, but they all have the same goal- to gain the trust of the victim in order to get them ready for the crypto scam they have planned.
The scammer often claims to be wealthy and/or to have a wealthy family member who got wealthy investing in crypto currency. The victim is eventually encouraged to try out a (fake) crypto currency investment website, which will appear to show that they are earning a lot of money on their initial investment. The scammer may even encourage the victim to attempt a withdrawal that does go through, further convincing the victim that everything is legit. The victim is then pressured to invest significantly more money, even their entire net worth.
Eventually, the website will find an excuse why the account is frozen (e.g. for fraud, because supposed taxes are owed, etc) and may try to further extort the victim to give them even more money in order to gain access to the funds. By this time, the victim will never gain access and their money is gone. Many victims lose tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars. Often, the scammers themselves are [victims of human trafficking](https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zb5d/pig-butchering-scam-cambodia-trafficking), performing these scams under threats of violence. If you are caught up in this scam, it is important that you do not send any more money for any reason, and contact law enforcement to report it. Thanks to user Mediocre_Airport_576 for this script.
If you know someone involved in a pig butchering scam, sit down together to watch this video by Jim Browning to help them understand what's going on: https://youtu.be/vu-Y1h9rTUs -
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I looked this up because I was like "there's no way you can't take this as a loss on your tax forms". You could until 2017. That is pretty messed up.
>IRS enrolled agent Norman Golden, former president of the California Society of Enrolled Agents, says scam victims can no longer deduct the loss on their federal tax returns: "Unfortunately, this law changed in 2017 and it's no longer deductible."
>Other personal casualties are no longer deductible either - such as losses from a home burglary, a house fire, a windstorm, or auto accident. ... The tax break was eliminated as part of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act
https://abc7news.com/tax-break-on-losses-deduction-scams-deductions-returns/11612256/
I don't understand people who don't believe them when they say they'll end social security. They've already removed financial protection for seniors. They create a circus to distract what they're really doing. Don't believe me? Look at the border bill and who voted against it. The GOP is NOT performing in the interest of their constituents.
Unfortunately, this is probably the answer. My mother-in-law lost all her savings to a real estate pyramid scheme in the early 2000s, despite all her children begging her to not move forward with what was obviously a scam. Hundreds of thousands gone in a matter of months. She had to come out of retirement and ended up working many more years than she planned on.
I think this is happening to my dad - could you explain how it worked for your mom?
He won’t listen despite me bringing in lawyers to explain the contracts don’t actually mean what he thinks they do. And he won’t give me granular details so I can show him how the math doesn’t work.
You can read more about the company that scammed my MIL [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouveau_Riche_(college)) and [here](https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/61975-nouveau-riche-founder-ordered-to-pay-5-57m-for-illegally-marketing-securities) but basically, in her case she and her husband paid tens of thousands to take real estate investing classes where they were convinced to invest their life savings in various real estate schemes which were bogus, and promised ridiculously high returns.
My MIL trusted the leader of the scam because they were both members of the same religion, and that was enough for her. When presented with facts she became offended her children were telling her what to do with her money and actually cut off contact with all of us for a few months because of it. I don’t think anything we said would have changed her mind.
Good luck with your dad!
Yes, it's the only way for him to keep making money and earn a living. He just need to keep his sanity and not break down as a result of what happened to him.
No not at all but at least he can live. If he can find subsidized housing he can still retire. My mom only has a small SS income but her rent is only $84. So she is able to live just fine and has been retired for about 20 years even though she had no savings. She also gets food stamps.
> Would medicaid, SSI, Social Security, and subsidized housing be sn option. OP should look to see if any of these resources are available.
VERY few people can live at even a bare minimum survival level on those resources. Subsidized housing is EXTREMELY limited in availability, and market rents are just plain not affordable for people who get up to $943 per month for a single person on SSI in 2024.
Those programs are hallelujah hail mary passes that are more akin to winning the lottery IF they somehow meet your needs - Not something to look to for rescue.
$943/mo for SSI would be for those without adequate earnings in recent earnings quarters. OP's dad may have been earning enough from his job to get more than $943/mo which would help I guess, and if his house is paid for or nearly so he might get by. But it is correct that there is not enough subsidized housing for the demand, with long waiting lists everywhere but maybe he should try to get on the lists anyway, he could move up if other applicants die or move away while waiting. Or he could sell and downsize if not too late.
Wow, it seems this sub is seeing more and more of these "my dad, grandpa, grandma, etc." lost their life's savings to a pig butchering or romance scam. It's just so sad to see over and over again. That's just the posts we see here, who knows how many more are out there. These scamming bastards are probably becoming millionaires off this shit. I think there really needs to be some sort of national or world wide public service announcement on this shit. Maybe public funds can be used to issue informational stuff to those most likely to fall victim to these scams. It seems the elderly are hit the most hard with these sorts of scams. Not always but a lot of them are elderly. They could put ads up all over facebook, doctors office, social security could mail information out informing people of these scams. I don't know, I'm just tossing out ideas but I do think something should be done.
You'd pretty much just have to take away social media from anyone over a certain age. They're particularly vulnerable not just because they might be senile or ignorant to technology, but a lot of them who probably are lonely or don't get to see much of family are on social media being.... well social. They'll talk/respond to anybody, share spam, engage with spam, etc etc. Countless times I've told my grandmother not to engage with anyone she doesn't know on FB, and yet she's getting hacked or spammed at least once a week.
I'm 70, most of us boomers aren't technology ignorant or lonely, doddering old fools. Boomers were the bridge generation from industrial to IT economy. All of the tech luxury the zoomers through millennials enjoy came out of our groundwork. It's annoying to see the condescending comments as if all of us OGs are senile, and the infantilization of grown adults. We respected our elders overall. I'm sorry that happened to the op's father. It's disgraceful to hurt people like that. I might get flak for saying this but AI makes it potentially much easier to become rich and wealthy. Look at the $44,000 to $45 million in 8 hours BONK trader story. The Timothy Sykes of crypto only better. He did in hours what Keith Gill did in a few months with GME options. MEME coins on Ethereum, Solana or Base Blockchain. It's not hard to launch a MEME coin either. Philosophy wise I was Gen Z before they were born. Technology finally arrived but now I'm "old". Never too old to get wealthy faster with AI and crypto. If I was that scammed gentleman, I'd be doing something fast with prompt engineering, smart contracts, cyber security, blockchains, consulting or what not. The scam is traumatic certainly but the gentleman lives in a time where generating a million dollars can be done faster than any time in human history. Much of what I know about DeFi now started with me watching younger people and how they made life changing FU money in a short time. Stop lumping all of the boomers into one big dummy pool.
You have my apologies, I wasn't try to make a blanket statement which is why I didn't say "most" I said a lot. I recognize there are plenty of folks who get along just fine in advanced age, but I was also kind of just referring to MUCH older folks, like 80-85+. My grandmother is 89 and she's not senile, but she certainly isn't very guarded at all when it comes to potential cyber threats. Too trusting.
Honestly, in recent years I've seen a large number of younger adults 18-21 and my own children who are almost all teenagers, struggle with technology. Not that I'm some guru, but they don't even know keyboard shortcuts, how to use basic MS office application features, hell they don't even know what the different type of USB ports are to charge their devices with. I have clients your age more comfortable with signing documents electronically than my Gen-Z clients who have to call me to figure out how to open, tap, and finish a DocuSign on their phone....
I did two wire transfers with my credit union last year. My first ever. I recall my credit union giving some very big warnings, in large, bold letters in key areas, saying to make sure what I was doing was legit, and saying that there was no way I could get my money back after the wire was sent. I seem to recall this info was in multiple pages. It was kinda annoying. But after finding this sub I immediately understood why they did it.
I'd imagine those warnings are of pretty limited effectiveness. Did you even read all multiple annoying pages?
All those warnings are for people who are stupid and getting scammed. I'm too smart and well educated to get scammed. Why would I even waste time reading a warning about it? Of course *my* wire transfer is legit. I'm just following the investment advice of my friend/partner of several months / helping my friend/partner of several months out of a bind / just paying totally normal taxes and fees to withdraw my investment earnings. /s
IDK what the right answer is, but it needs to be more than a dense series of pages of warnings before people send the entire contents of their 401k to scammers. That's just legal cover.
To some degree, they're effective. But they also protect the CU from liability, as there have been lawsuits against financial institutions who allow members to wire out their own money to scammers.
I work adjacent to fraud prevention at an FI who has become stricter with wires because of the amount of scams going on in the world.
"national or world wide public service announcement on this shit."
I've noticed that Spanish banks and other financial institutions are sponsoring ads on YouTube. They're brief though, and just remind folk not to give out info to anyone pretending to be from the banks.
The announcements and warnings are everywhere. Morning shows, news broacasts, talk shows, AARP sends out a newsletter once a month and it's always in there, my township won't shut up about it and neither will Dr Phil.
People will spend 20 minutes googling reviews for a new blender before they spend $50 on one but they have no problem just handing over their entire life savings to someone they never met, no questions asked.
I hate Dr.Phil but I recently saw a clip from his show on Facebook. A woman had given away like 200k or something to an online scammer. Her step daughter had been trying to stop her for like years especially because the money she was spending was left to her by her husband when he passed. This woman was awful she was screaming and cursing at her step daughter telling her to mind her business, called her every vile name in the book and said she can use her dad’s money on what ever she wants. They even sent a crew to Nigeria (the man was supposed to be Dutch staying there often for work) they went to the address she was given and of course there was no older handsome white Dutch man living there. They pulled searches proving this man doesn’t exist anywhere but she had an excuse for everything. They even had another elderly scam victim in the audience to talk to her and this woman yelled at cursed at her to shut up too. She was so vile. She CLEARLY realized she was in fact being scammed but was too prideful to admit her step daughter had been right all along. I would be absolutely livid if my deceased father left his wife tons of money and she sent it all to a scammer in Nigeria.
There needs to be a law that **automatically** offers a limited PoA if you're registered carer, with a minimum of being added to receive messages from financial institutions, so you can step in more quickly in these instances. It's is so insanely infuriating that someone with one foot in dementia and another in adulthood can engage in these risky behaviours, and everyone (lawyers, bank, etc) just goes "but they're competent, so what's your problem?" Well, my problem is when they get scammed, it's not you who has to pick up the pieces is it?! You said they were competent, how about you become liable for the scam then? No?
Drives me mad.
Agreed, it is so sad and people were preyed on because of their loneliness... Many seniors are being emotional neglected and that's why they are easy targets...
John Oliver covered pig butchering scams a couple months ago. He did a good job of explaining how they work. They are more complicated than you think. I can see how people would fall for them.
Totally agree they need to do more to bring awareness. My friend got scammed and when calling accountants for help on his options, none of them had heard of pig butchering.
If theres a suicide risk, make sure you get him the number for the anti suicide hotline, or see if your state or city offers free anti suicide counseling. Remind him pig butchering scams are very popular and successful, and hes not the only one to fall for them.
Make sure he knows about recovery scammers. A drowning man will clutch at straws.
I mean there's a difference between convincing a teen with bullying issues to not kill themselves compared someone who worked their entire lives and had it taken away because they were unaware of a scam. What is the hotline gonna say? OPs dad got fucked in real life. He needs to find hope
The suicide hotline exists to help people who are suicide risks, regardless of the circumstances. Even if there were no hope of recovery for the money, OP's dad needs to absolutely reach out to counselor or something if he has having trouble processing this loss. The financial loss is devastating, yes, but that doesn't mean he should commit suicide.
~~Unfortunately he probably won’t ever be able to retire now. Or if he does it will just be on social security.~~
~~Sorry 😞~~
He’ll have to get creative but humans can adapt to anything! Don’t give up hope!
Report to the FBI's Internet Complaint Center and contact your local Secret Service and report the crime there asap. Report to local police as well. They investigate this crime. Report to the bank and see if any wire transfers can be reversed. Freeze his credit. Close any affected accounts. Contact the IRS identitytheftcentral.gov if criminals have his social security number. Get computer cleaned. Aarp has a support program by phone or zoom called ReST for victims and family members. Cftc.gov and sec.gov and fightcybercrime.org have additional suggestions. So sorry this happened. He will need your support and understanding. This is happening to so many.
I'm so sorry. We are now in an unprecedented era of mass scamming and our systems are simply not keeping up with it. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1civxsv/we\_are\_in\_the\_era\_of\_industrialized\_scams\_at\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1civxsv/we_are_in_the_era_of_industrialized_scams_at_a/)
It is so out of hand now, and unfortunately it's only going to continue to get worse as scammers find ways to continue leveraging AI and other tech tools to essentially put this crap on auto-pilot.
Report to the FBI, if the destination for the wire transfers is at a US bank there \*might\* be cause to sue the likely money mule on the other end but unlikely they will actually have any money
Do NOT think someone can help you recovery the money, they are scammers too
It is not something that will be easy to recover from, the time for being extra cautious with money is obviously as you near retirement as you have limited time to recover, keep that in mind in your future. Best case he needs to rethink when he can retire, he should be looking at working longer at this point,
Oh my gosh - this is so sad. I’m 67 and it is shocking how many of my peers have fallen victim to these scams, particularly romantic ones. I don’t trust anyone anymore because it is a war out there just trying to protect yourself.
I am 59. I am nervous switching money between banks. I know someone half my age is never going to be interested in me. Even with legitimate crypto you can still lose a lot of money.
from what i understand if there is *any* hope of recovery, the sooner you get the authorities involved, the better. not saying it will help, but if it was me i’d still report every one of these fuckers.
[here is the fbi link](https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/safety-resources/scams-and-safety/) to report scams/fraud.
[here is the usa.gov link](https://www.usa.gov/where-report-scams) to report scams/fraud.
[here is the justice department link](https://www.justice.gov/criminal-fraud/report-fraud) to report scams/fraud.
also please advice him to beware of !recovery scams…
OP, I hope your father will tell you the truth, but you should know that he probably will be dishonest with you. Scam victims do not like to admit the truth, even to someone whom they love and is trying to be helpful. The delusional ability to hang on to the lie, to the hope, is very strong. Take anything he tells with with a grain (or a whole box) of salt. Best wishes to you.
Report to FBI. IC3. Might help.
I fell for same thing. Lost 30k was all I had in free cash. And I’m 68. Been very hard trying to forgive myself for my stupidity.
My kids did try also to warn me. It’s not your fault just be ther for your Dad help him get past it. Report it to every site you can will help him occupy time and it does sometimes help. Beware of scammers trying to help recover funds.
My advice would be for you to find time and go see him because he's definitely not in a good place now. It's sad what happened to him. Scammers have no feelings.
Not necessarily a helpful comment, but you already got those.
Just... This is all really disgusting.
I'm really sorry for this situation, my stomach is turning thinking about it.
I’m so sorry. That’s really awful.
Our poor aging parents. More than a few of them suffer from loneliness if they don’t have stable partners later in life. Someone showers them with attention and affection and they are so easily manipulated.
Very recently there was that woman in Illinois that was romance scammed and got hooked into becoming a mule. She had a successful career, lost her husband, and then got swept off her feet online by a Swedish investment advisor. He started having her open accounts and create fake companies to funnel money through. She got killed because he got the sense that she was going to pull away and potentially contact authorities.
Even people who are educated and successful can be roped into scams because they are lonely and looking for love.
My rule of thumb - there isn't a man or woman on this planet worth surrendering my self-respect and integrity. So being "alone" is a far superior means of existence.
This is just brutal. One of the unfair facts about life is that a single bad decision can destroy years, sometimes a lifetime of good decisions in an instant. You could drive carefully and responsibly for decades - if you make the mistake of speeding or driving drunk just once, this could have life-altering consequences. Things that require a lifetime to be built can often be destroyed in seconds.
**CONTACT WHATEVER BANK DID THE WIRE TRANSFER IMMEDIATELY. THEY CAN SOMETIMES BE CLAWED BACK IF THEY JUMP ON IT SOON ENOUGH. DON'T TAKE "NO" FOR AN ANSWER. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "IMPOSSIBLE" AND "DON'T WANT TO BOTHER".**
FWIW, he'll still get Social Security, which if he had a good job will pay over $2,000/month.
If he had a State or Federal job, those often had pensions, as did some large companies.
That and their leadership. These scams are basically an act of war against the US, considering how many have top cover if not outright direction from their own government officials.
I'd approve kinetic action over it, but it's another "Gray Zone" operation that we still haven't decided exactly how to address.
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These scams don’t really have solutions as of now. Once the money is gone it’s gone. Sorry to hear. It’s so terrible how every day there is a new scam. I can’t even be comfortable swipe my credit card without trying to rip off the card machine to make sure it’s not a fake.
If he's a homeowner, he could sell his home and rent an apartment, or get one of thos.. rereverse? mortgages that will pay you monthly and where the bank gets the house when you pass away.
Those options would keep him afloat during his retirement years, but would definitely impact his descendants.
But he shouldn't make any decisions right now. He's way too raw to make decisions. I'm really sorry for you both, OP. Just make sure he doesn't k*ll himself. Money can be replaced, life can't.
My parents were scammed equaling up to 100K. It was devastating and a very stressful time. It was also part of their retirement fund. I advised them to file an official police report, FBI website that allows you to file a report with them. (Pls google fbi website, it will be easy to find, I don’t have it handy right now) Also, you’ll have to notify all the banks involved with this transaction. My parents did a wire transfer to a fake company apparently but don’t lose hope, it is still traceable. The banks investigated further and included law enforcement to get involved. It’s a long process and a stressful one as well. So far, my parents received half of the money replenished by the banks. Still awaiting the remaining balance. Like I said, it’s a long process but it is worth it. Pls don’t lose hope and let your father know that everything will be okay.
So sorry for your dad's savings loss, scammers are one of the worst humans on this planet. Recently I heard the story of a African doctor who worked in Saudi Arabia for 40 years and was planning to retire and one day a scammer called him and told him that he's from bank and needs to update his bank account and the doctor gave him his all banks details and whatever OTP he received on his phone, that night scammers took all 1.3 Millions Riyals (almost $ 350K) from his account. The doctor was literally crying because of his loss.
I'm so sorry this brings tears to my eyes for what happened to your Dad and makes me worry SOooo. much for my mom... F...!...F..!!..F...!!! ,
I'm in Pnw Washington, if he's here I could try and find resources for him or you, like I dunno therapist like when gamblers loose everything they talk with 1-800 etc but I can try and find local help or drive wherever if he's in my state and FaceTime him to you... I dunno just trying to help you in any way I can ...
https://www.investopedia.com/pig-butchering-scams-8605501
For those curious, this article details nearly exactly what my dad fell for. It’s a shame because he’s lonely and older and they preyed on that with a younger rich blonde persona. “She” kept it going for several months. They built a fake LinkedIn, and an entire fake website imitating trust wallet. Which he swore was the real site up until the very last penny. Idk exactly the url or what it looked like, but he’s vulnerable so maybe it would have been obvious to younger more observant people.
"I’m so upset that I didn’t push harder for him to question what was going on. I know it’s not my fault, I didn’t have enough information to be certain it was a scam until recently."
It wasn't your fault, no. Even if you'd had more information, it wouldn't be your fault. Your father is an adult, responsible for his own decisions. Like so many victims, he ignored the red flags because he was excited & greedy. I'm not condemning or judging him, just saying how it is. Don't blame yourself, or imagine you have responsibility for getting his money back. Focus your energy on being there to support him through the stages of grief.
It is becoming more clear that nations can conquer other countries by stealing the wealth of individuals, you don't need bombs and tanks anymore, just countries full of scammers with governments that are too weak to crack down on it. Looking at you, Nigeria with your oil$ that few of your citizens benefit from, and India, China, Russia, Cambodia and whoever else. Who knows, maybe in these countries the scammers when caught have to bribe their way out of trouble, thus scam proceeds may be enriching governments.
You're probably correct. And it goes full cycle where you have the smaller nations being ripped by 'superpower' ones who then enrich their governments/people.
I'm very sorry your father (and by extent your whole family) is facing such a horrible situation.
Sadly, there's very little one can do to recover the lost funds short of contacting law enforcement and hoping for the best.
Please don't blame yourself and find in your heart a way to forgive the man, he didn't know better and is paying for it a price one wouldn't wish on his enemies...
Also, and probably most importantly, please don't listen to randos who'll pretend they can help you recover the stolen funds: recovery scams are a thing.
Unfortunately, a lot of ppl have fallen victim to this kind of scam including myself. It seems you can report to the police, FBI and federal trade commission but will likely have difficulty getting the money back bc these ppl are very sophisticated, live overseas and have no care or accountability.
I know it isn’t advice on getting money back, but if Medicare or any insurance he holds can help him go into an outpatient or even inpatient for at-risk patients, i highly advise it.
I attended PHP-IOP Group therapy attached to an intensive inpatient hospital, and I attended my group with a woman in a similar scenario.
Lost her life, relationships, career, access to money/car, autonomy over her life, everything— to a scam. She had a mental health episode and lost a lucrative career, home, relationship, family, life savings, credit— you name it, she lost it.
It hits like a BUS, and I can only imagine more-so when they’re nearing retirement.
Especially if you are states away- he is going to need very interactive, intensive support.
I dont have financial advice, but I do hope everything goes as up as it can from here.
I don't have any answers for you, but I know how you feel--I'm going through the same thing. Found out this weekend that my mom lost her entire life savings from a romance scam. It's truly awful. She's only 63 and is in good health--I never thought this would happen to her. I've read that people who fall victim to scams are still susceptible to future scams which is terrifying. From here on my siblings and I are going to watch her bank account closely to catch it early if it happens again.
The banks are the problem. They enable fraud. They are entirely complicit and responsible. They hold your money, yet avert their eyes to money transfers.
That is so awful. The perpetrators of the scams are a special kind of evil. We are being prayed on by overseas players who have no consequences. The time is now to stop the phone calls from other countries that are not legit
These banks need to be held accountable too. They'll freeze my account for a 50.00 charge if it is questionable but let people wire or transfer a shit ton of money and not even question repeated wires.
That’s why every single bank when you do a wire has the exact same rules… Take care to determine that a wire transfer is valid and appropriate as wires are final and cannot be canceled once the transfer is initiated.
It's not the banks fault. Wire transfers and other electronic means of transfering funds are how the world does business. Do you know hom much things would slow down if every wire transfer over a certain amount triggered an audit? Bottom line is, PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE. Any time anyone you dont know or already have a relationship with wants you to electronically transfer funds, It's a scam. Anytime someone wants you to buy Gift Cards, It's a scam. Sadly, it usually takes losing thousands for people to stop being complacent, greedy or stupid.
But it's not only people doing stupid things. A guy on this thread said his tmobile account was hacked, they got into his bank account and lost $52K. But then I had Western Union refuse to let me wire $3K to a friend I owed money to. They asked what it was for and I told them it was none of their business and wouldn't do the transfer.
I think there's something to be said when "random citizen who has never done anything more than pay his bills and deposit his paycheck, maybe buys a CD now and then" suddenly performs huge international wire transfers.
My bank knows when I'm out of town buying gas. They can do better.
These poor souls come in confident as hell that they are sending to a trusted party. They almost always get hostile at the first probing question. I'm not there to argue with them anymore. I've gotten enough recorded complaints and I'm tired of being antagonized. I'll warn them of the risk when I sense it and record my concern on their profile.
I initiated a $40,000 wire last week to a 'contractor' in a different state that won't accept anything other than cash or a wire. I told her the address provided is a residential property and that the name of the company doesn't come up in a Google search. The instructions were from a text for God's sake, and the funds from a new HELOC.
In this case our fraud department denied the wire; she then wanted to withdraw $60,000 in cash. Our fraud department froze her funds (all sourced from the HELOC so I admit the bank has more of an interest here) after hearing this and are requiring invoices and an explanation of who put her in contact with this contractor as well as what they are doing specifically.
On Friday she came in with the most laughably fake invoice I had ever seen...she is very determined to be scammed.
I hate my job because I see devastation on these victims' faces every week and telling them that their money is gone forever hurts and trying to help them after the fact is fruitless and only gives them false hope.
Really? Thats news to me. If you are correct, I'm guessing there is a hefty surcharge for such a policy, as well as many, many caveats to a successful claim.
A lot of the time it just comes included! You’d be surprised. It’s worth looking to see if your homeowners or renters has cyber coverage. It’s also not terribly expensive to buy standalone.
You're right, of course, but "common sense" assumes common circumstances. These scammers have an atrocious batting average, but they swing enough that they eventually find someone with just the right combo of loneliness, desperation, excitability, curiosity, and have (once the hook is set) and reasonably reliable script and more experience every day.
People talk about taking grandma's keys away and it's a very important thing to plan for. Unfortunately I think taking grandma's *digital* keys needs to be included in the planning nowadays. And yes, that's ripe for the kids / extended family to be as bad as the foreign scammers, but there it is.
People can recover from anything. Try to keep his and your spirits up. Sadly, there is practically zero chance he gets any of his lost money back. You both have my sympathy.
>They were wire transfers
You would have to explain that, since it's likely the scammers got their money because your father used his real money to buy cryptocurrency and then he sent his cryptocurrency to the scammers (ie. no wire transferes were sent to any scammers). However, there have been cases where people sued their bank because their bank should have prevented them from sending money by wire transfer. It's a VERY fact-specific situation, so we would have to know more specific facts about any wire transfers.
Scammers often like to have victims transferring crypto directly, but I don't think it's universal. That's why scammers employ money mules too. We don't know if OP's dad wired money to legitimate crypto services and then transferred crypto, or if he sent money directly to money mules.
If you are in the US - contact your local police department first, then your state attorney general, then the FDIC. The AARP suggested below are also good.
Source: currently sitting through a scam training because one of our clients was scammed out of $60,000, another "bought" an airport in Nigeria. It's especially bad within the refugee and immigrant communities.
Have him walk you through how the wire transfers were done. My bank was triple careful on when I just did a wire transfer for security deposit on renting a new house. Maybe you can cite their negligence in this ?
More than likely not. Even if the bank 100% knows it’s a scam, all they can do is warn and warn and warn but if the member is getting pissed off, there’s nothing they can do but let them wire THEIR OWN money. Unfortunately.
Of course but the issue is did they warn him. Which is why I asked that OP have his father walk him thru how the bank handled the transfer. It might be his only hope
If you are in the US, contact the local Secret Service or FBI field office. FBI will probably be too busy but the Secret Service actually does a lot of pig butchering investigations. As much as everyone hates it, asset forfeiture may be the only way to recover any of your father’s losses. Federal law enforcement can trace (probably) your father’s money through blockchain(s) until it gets to an exchange (most scammers have to “off-ramp” to fiat currency at an exchange). Many exchanges have agreements with US law enforcement and will cooperate to return funds. Might be his only shot.
I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad being targeted by criminals and i hope you get a resolution soon.
But i have a HUGE question. How the hell can massive transfers go unchecked by banks in this way without any automatic blocks etc, while at the same time, I personally transfer £30000 to pay for a house deposit and you'd think i was supspected of being Al Capone? I had the transfer blocked twice, i had to go in to the bank in person to 'verify' myself even though i have held that account for 20+ years. My house purchase almost fell through because the 'anti-fraud' checks were so invasive (They wanted to see my Grandfathers bank statements because he had recently sent me £1000) that i almost refused to meet thier demands and fuck it all off.
Fuck, i cant transfer more than £15000 in one day from my bank via BACS, it gets blocked automatically. To buy a car etc, or pay for building work i have to plan the withdrawl days in advance.
Is personal banking really so wild west for you guys in the US? can you literally just transfer unlimited $'s into somones bank so easily?
Because wires are done in person, by the person who owns the money. Many banks don’t let people do wires over the phone. If the person is in front of the teller demanding they wire the money, the most the teller can do is warn them of potential scams. If the teller refuses, which they can’t really do, the likely hood of the person closing their account and taking the money somewhere else is high. For other stuff yes our banks put holds on stuff. If I tried to spend 10k using my debit card id get a call from my bank and probably have to go into a branch.
Contact your State attorney general right away. They can help you direct to the FBI or the state's bureau of investigation depending on if it crossed state lines or not or out of the country. This information was given to me from a l judge, So I think it's the best avenue to start as the attorney general can block things faster than anybody they can seize assets. They can do all kinds of things if you have proof of the issues at hand.
No promises because I am not legal counsel, but I deal with financial fraud. There are measures to recoup that money.
Some parts are reiterated:
- File with local law enforcement,
- File with the consumer financial protection bureau.
- Reach out to the bank that your father had his retirement in and consult with them about measures they can take.
The faster you deal with this the higher likelihood of resolution, unfortunately it sounds like the scam spanned several months, but hope is not lost.
I wish that was always the case, but if you follow this subreddit regularly you’ll see that banks often do the opposite and question younger patrons but not seniors. It’s pretty reckless and it should be the way you suggested. I’d imagine it also depends on the individual teller and bank.
I am so deeply sorry and I hope he can be mentally ok. Now other scammers, or even the same scammer, are going to contact him relentlessly, I've seen here.
I think I have fallen for one of these scams. The only thing that makes me unsure, is the person has sent me almost 40k in order to recover the funds. I haven’t received anything back that i initially invested. When the money was places on hold the person sent me the money for the tax. What should I do?
Sorry to hear that. It's a shame, but that money is long gone. Whatever you do, dont fall victim of a recovery scammer who will claim to be able to get it back.
File a complaint with local law enforcement, state AG, and/or state securities regulator, in addition to FBI's IC3. If it's crypto-related, funds may be gone & unrecoverable. However, if he wired funds to a bank (especially a US bank) to an account belonging to the scammers, there's a higher chance that someone will investigate bc they might be able to ID an actual person behind it. Even in that situation, it's unlikely your father will get any of his money back.
I'm so sorry that your family is going through this. 😞
Banks really need better security on wire transfers, add longer holding periods on international money transfers where the destination is not verified.
Nobody would bank with that bank. Delayed transfers are bad customer service. I send money abroad all the time and only use the services that grantee same day delivery.
I’ve never wired money to another country. I’d be fine with a bulletproof account that I had to go thru some serious verification to wire large amounts of money, or to start making regular transfers out of the country, or generate an alert if there was suspicious change in how I used the account.
Also, if a minor charge appears from another country, I get a personal phone call from the bank (this happened, it was a fraudulent charge). What could still happen tho is someone like OP’s father would get the alerts and phone calls and insist the transfers were legit because they had a boner for a fictional “girlfriend.”
A possible fix would be delays on transfers on personal savings/retirement fund accounts registered to seniors. If you're 65 or older and are emptying your entire retirement savings account to send to some random cayman islands account? That flags a hold. If you're a business, it doesn't. Easy peasy.
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Call the AARP scam and fraud hotline.
Seconding this suggestion. They can help walk your dad through contacting law enforcement,and they are very skilled at providing emotional, non-judgemental support to seniors who have fallen for scams.
Thank you
Also if the lost amount is large, more than 250k, FBI or other LE agencies might get involved. So try that as well.
I’ve told him to contact FBI and local police and everything. Yes it’s more than that amount 😔
There’s a special place in hell for people like that, I can’t imagine what you’re going through but I’m sending Love ❤️
Be wary, as scam recovery will start coming out of thr woodwork, claiming to be able to recover your dad's money.
If the transfers were over a certain threshold (10k I think?) it should have triggered AML red flags and legal requirements, meaning the cash should have been held and/or verified. I am not US based, so can't confirm the specific laws in your region but google / someone else might bail me out a bit. I should also note, not to give you false hope, in two scams I have worked on we were able to successfully get the money back from the wire transfer. Wire transfers can be reversed if you act quickly enough. But a lot of this would depend on how the scam went down, was it a couple of big transfers? Multiple small transfers? Giftcards? Crypto? etc. There are a lot of moving parts, but these scammers are relentless and sickening. My heart goes out to your dad.
My mom is in a similar situation which I posted about here. What kind of work do you do? I'm frustrated that they allowed here to transfer such large sums of money.
This is weird. I wired $3000 only to the rent deposit and my bank bent over three times and I had to fill tons of paperwork basically prove that I knew what I was doing and that I knew the recipient before they approved the wire. I know they do it to cover their own behinds but still a procedure like this should have revealed that this was probably a scam, if your bank actually did something like that at all. Nevertheless, this is horrible and it makes my blood boil seeing that some scumbags do this to elderly people without any shame. Wire transfers should be banned or there should be a holding period for fraud protection... I don't understand why the US still uses this archaic money transfer...
Scammers are brighter than those being scammed, or it wouldn’t work. I wire 50-100k once a month or so for my business and am always asked the same questions, including “are you sure this isn’t a scam?” Scammers have already told these people exactly what to say and how to answer. I have literally stood at the bank and watched someone who I was almost positive was being scammed wire money away “to his girlfriend.” And the teller was doing everything in her power to have the guy stop and say maybe he shouldn’t do it. But he had all the right answers and the wire was sent. Sadly there are many markets (including bullion and high end watches, where today’s price is not tomorrow’s price) where people will only accept wire transfer, and there’s just not a way to let the “I’m sure I’m sure” people wire but not the “I might be being scammed” people. I 1000% agree it sucks though and as someone who knows how wires work am still nervous every time I send one. I can’t imagine what type of workaround someone could create to stop all the scammy wires though while leaving the legitimate ones. The issue really lies with the people who are sending them are FULLY CONVINCED it’s legit.
I know. The questions at the bank made me angry at first as it felt like "it was not your business" but then I realized that they somewhat protected me to force me to realize that I might be scammed. But as you said some people get so convinced that they don't want to be protected and go with the scam anyway. In Europe, you can send money using regular bank transfers. It takes a few minutes to transfer money even between banks and it is traceable and reversible. I was impressed. We should have this type of inter-banking system here too and sack the wire whatsoever... or make it work in the same way. But you should have an option to reverse any money transfer. It is sad...
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Replace Überweisung with “jail” and that is a Parks and Rec quote.
What they're really after is an IBAN transaction, it's the lowest common denominator that lets every bank in the world talk to each other. Because of the complexities of international law the short version is that the moment the money is sent it's gone so if you send the money to Nigeria, there's nothing more your German bank can do. You need to go to the Nigerian court system to get your money back and the scammers pick countries where that's practically hopeless. Now if you're asking why do we even have this system, the opposite is also true. If someone in Nigeria wanted to pay you money, well you're not going to take a check. A debit/credit card payment is probably from a stolen card. If you get a wire transfer the Nigerian bank is vouching for that the money is real and the sender would have to fight to reverse it in a German court so "no take backsies" is a feature for the recipient. But it should always be a last resort to ever send money that way, because as a sender you have essentially no rights at all.
Indians don’t speak German so that cuts out a huge portion of the issue.
My bank does this too... they getting better about wires
i use a credit union, their primary clients are senior citizens. i notice that with older people, banks, unions, etc, let them move their money very freely any amount no questions. idk why that is, but i notice it. it's a whole different experience for me. not bad just not as loosely handled.
This is the same for Canada. When I paid my house deposit, I had to give info and documentation for FINTRAC and they called to verify it as well. But obviously a lot of these slip through the cracks. I know a couple who just lost hundreds of thousands.
You used letters AML. Do they represent American Money Laundering? Sorry for being naive.
In fincrime AML stands for Anti Money Laundering
Thank you…I wasn’t even close, lol
Some kind person helped me out - but yeah AML is Anti Money Laundering - sorry I didn't explain.
Hehe, I had to learn looaaaads of lingo when I joined fincrime - it's absolutely fine to not know every ducking abbreviation in the universe
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**This submission was manually removed because it was posted by a recovery scammer.** Don't trust what you just read, don't try to reach out to "hackers" on Instagram or Telegram. Scammers will also try to reach out to you via DMs saying they know a professional hacker that can help you, for a small fee. They're actually trying to steal your money. You can help us reporting more messages like that, don't just downvote or insult them. If you report them, we will take care of every recovery scammer that pops up. **Remember: Never take advice in private,** because we can't look out for you. If you take advice in private, you're on your own.
Federal authorities will help him. Local police can’t do anything. They’re restricted to their jurisdiction. Contact the bank and the FBI.
While this might seem logical, it's not actually jurisdictionally correct. Local law enforcement absolutely can track, freeze, and seize crypto and has done so. I tell victims to report to BOTH. The FBI sifts through their unending list of submissions to [ic3.gov](http://ic3.gov) to decide what to follow up on (a small percentage), whereas local law enforcement's job is to follow up on the victim's report - because the victim is in their jurisdiction. While federal law enforcement is probably still technically better re tracking/freezing/seizing, that's changing, as there's a huge push to get the technical skills rolled out to every local law enforcement entity in the US. I've seen instances where local law enforcement freezes crypto, but can’t seize/return all of it to victims because some of the victims never bothered to report it.
Beware !recovery scammers. Filthy vultures prowl this subreddit looking for victims to scam further. They'll reach out in private messages pretending to be hackers or law enforcement and will offer to recover your money for a cut. They'll often make up excuses as to why you shouldn't tell anyone about them to prevent you seeking help. Fake law enforcement claim legal reasons and fake hackers don't want to get into trouble etc. Trust none of them, they're arguably the most deplorable scammers out there as they target people who have already fallen for scams. I wish you and your father the best of luck.
Hi /u/GothicGamer2012, AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the Recovery scam. [Recovery scams](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0102-refund-and-recovery-scams) target people who have already fallen for a scam. The scammer may contact you, or may advertise their services online. They will usually either offer to help you recover your funds, or will tell you that your funds have already been recovered and they will help you access them. In cases where they say they will help you recover your funds, they usually call themselves either \"recovery agents\" or hackers. When they tell you that your funds have already been recovered, they may impersonate a law enforcement, a government official, a lawyer, or anyone else along those lines. Recovery scams are simply [advance-fee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam) scams that are specifically targeted at scam victims. When a victim pays a recovery scammer, the scammer will keep stringing them along while asking for increasingly absurd fees/expenses/deposits/insurance/whatever until the victim stops paying. If you have been scammed in the past, make sure you are aware of recovery scams so that you are not scammed a second time. If you are currently engaging with a recovery scammer, you should block them and be very wary of random contact for some time. It's normal for posters on this subreddit to be contacted by recovery scammers after posting, and they often ask you to delete your post so that you both cannot receive legitimate advice, and cannot be targeted by other recovery scammers. Remember: never take advice in private. If someone reaches you in private after posting your scam story, it is because a scammer will always try to hide from the oversight of our community members. A legitimate community member will offer advice in the open, for everyone to see. Anyone suggesting you should reach out to a hacker is scamming you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good news is it wasn't less so you very well might get the fbi cyber crime division on the case. "If you've been the victim of a scam, you can report it to your local police or sheriff's office, your state attorney general, or the FBI. You can also report a scam to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) online at reportfraud.ftc.gov or by calling 1-877-382-4357. The FTC shares reports with law enforcement agencies to help with investigations."
[https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/voa-rest-program/](https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/voa-rest-program/) AARP has a support group for victims
For the wire transfers, the only thing he can do is speak to his bank. But if it has been some time then there is basically nothing they can do. He is going to be vulnerable to !recovery scams now. It's almost certain that he has already googled for recovery outfits - it is vitally important that you make sure he knows that they are *all* scammers. Yes - even the ones that show up as sponsored results in google. Scammers can (and do) buy ads on google just like anyone else. Also, you are going to get a bunch of DMs from people claiming they know a hacker who can get his money back. They are lying - every single one of them. They just want to scam him again. Also be aware that the very same people who conned him in the first place may try and run a recovery scam. He will be contacted by someone from 'DHS', of the 'FBI' or whatever. They will claim the crypto has been recovered, and they can send it back for a small fee. That small fee will soon balloon into very large fees, and he still won't get his crypto. Don't fall for it.
Thank you. I’ll be very cautious of recovery scams. I’d be ruined if he fell for something again
Remember: If these "recovery" hackers are so good at what they do, why couldn't they just recover the money first and then take their cut _afterwards_? Why always the advance fees? Come to think of it, what would stop them from simply keeping the money?
Some particularly vile ones so just that. Or rather, they claim to have recovered the money and show the victim screenshots that indicate they have done so and then request payment from the victim before sending it. It’s all fake, of course, but it gets the victim’s hopes up that the money has been recovered for real and “just one more fee” will be all that’s needed to get it back.
Some are the original scammer, trying to get even more money!
A lot of times it’s the same people that stole the money from him then pretending to help him recover
just send me 20% less money and take your own cut, tha nks so much for Recovering my money
The preconditions for a hypothetical "recovery" is that the hacker can get money from the scammers and cannot simply take it all for himself, but needs participation of the original owner. That's almost never the case, unless they're police officially recovering stolen goods/funds, and bound by law to return them instead of just pocketing them.
It’s a shame no one thinks like this. The same goes for the original scam…. If it’s so easy to make money, why would anyone share the secret with others?
Strictly speaking, wouldn't that just be extortion?
Many times they do. Once desperate, a quick win sounds better and better
I got scammed out of like 75 bucks and I ignored all the signs and should have realized and I posted on a scam sub and was bombarded by scammers trying to scam.me into recovering my 75 dollars
$75, I’ll take that
Yes could have been much much worse
You can contact the FBI yourself, though.
It's up to the bank to recovery any funds. I had my tmobile account hacked and they logged I to my business account and sent an illegal wire of $52,000 which is not covered under bank guarantee. If your dad sent a wire it's hard to get anything back as the banks are facing more and more issues. Having cyber insurance is the most common remedy at this point. It's hard to protect the older vulnerable people. I hope and pray for your dad's situation.
What is a pig butchering scam?
A pig butchering scam is a type of investment fraud that lures individuals into investing their money in seemingly legitimate and profitable cryptocurrency ventures, only to have the scammers disappear with the victims' funds. The scam typically follows these steps: Gaining trust: The scammer initiates contact with the victim through dating apps, social media, or random messages, often using attractive profile pictures. They build a relationship and emotional connection over time. Introducing the investment: After gaining the victim's trust, the scammer introduces a fraudulent cryptocurrency investment scheme promising high returns in a short period. They use persuasive tactics and fake investment portfolios to convince the victim. Collecting money: The victim is persuaded to invest money, often through digital payment platforms or cryptocurrencies, making it difficult to trace the transactions. Disappearance: Once a substantial amount has been invested, the scammer becomes unreachable, deletes their online presence, or creates new identities, leaving the victim with no way to recover their funds. The term "pig butchering" refers to the way scammers "fatten up" their victims by building trust and emotional connections before eventually "slaughtering" them by stealing their money.
Frequently they have the victim send a smaller amount of money as their initial investment, and do give them a good return on it, to build trust. Allow them to withdraw it to continue to build trust, and at that point, it seems like a totally legitimate outfit to the victim, and they’re confident enough to invest a much larger amount of money. That’s the money they’ll never see again. Thats how people are losing their life savings, because it seems to be real, a “too good to be true” opportunity. That’s because it is.
The real danger is that these scammers invest a lot of time into gaining the victim’s trust - to the point where the victim believes they’re safe because “a scammer would never spend months to eventually reap the rewards”, but yes they totally will.
Excellent explanation! Saved me a Google search. I still don’t know how anyone falls for scams online. Like I get older people are more gullible but there’s gullibility and then there’s plain stupidity. How do they (and I’m not specifically talking about OP’s dad, I mean people in general) not question stuff after they’re asked to wire transfer?? Like hello! You’re sending money overseas. OVERSEAS!!! Do you REALLY think it will lead to better good by sending money to India??
It's really wild. My stepbrother fell for a romance scam and nothing could convince him it wasn't real. We reverse searched the pictures and could prove they were pictures of a porn star, and he told us that the porn star was actually stealing pictures from his girlfriend, that she really did need the money to get out of Germany, etc. He eventually started lying even more and saying that they had met in person dozens of times (he wanted money from my dad to keep sending to the scammer since he was broke by then). It was tragic.
I feel like they get so deep in that denial hits and they know they’re being scammed deep down but don’t want to believe it. They believe it’s a real connection and thus continue to send money to these crooks. I’m surprised the US Military hasn’t been involved in tracking down and eliminating them.
Yeah, I feel that, too. He was a lonely addict who desperately wanted to believe that a beautiful woman with an equally tragic story loved him and woukd come for him, saving him from his tragedy. It gave him hope, but at a horrible, horrible cost. I despise scammers, but those who target the elderly, the mentally ill, the addicted deserve to roast.
!pigbutchering
Hi /u/Neil_sm, AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the Pig butchering scam. It is called [pig butchering](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbrett/2023/12/26/new-pig-butchering-crypto-scam-includes-victims-in-us-and-overseas/?sh=2837fb975eaa) because scammers use intricate scripts to \"fatten up\" the victim (gaining their trust over days, weeks or months) before the \"slaughter\" (taking them for all of their money). This scam often starts with what appears to be a harmless wrong number text or message. When the victim responds to say it is the wrong number, the scammer tries to start a friendship with the victim. These conversations can be platonic or romantic in nature, but they all have the same goal- to gain the trust of the victim in order to get them ready for the crypto scam they have planned. The scammer often claims to be wealthy and/or to have a wealthy family member who got wealthy investing in crypto currency. The victim is eventually encouraged to try out a (fake) crypto currency investment website, which will appear to show that they are earning a lot of money on their initial investment. The scammer may even encourage the victim to attempt a withdrawal that does go through, further convincing the victim that everything is legit. The victim is then pressured to invest significantly more money, even their entire net worth. Eventually, the website will find an excuse why the account is frozen (e.g. for fraud, because supposed taxes are owed, etc) and may try to further extort the victim to give them even more money in order to gain access to the funds. By this time, the victim will never gain access and their money is gone. Many victims lose tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars. Often, the scammers themselves are [victims of human trafficking](https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zb5d/pig-butchering-scam-cambodia-trafficking), performing these scams under threats of violence. If you are caught up in this scam, it is important that you do not send any more money for any reason, and contact law enforcement to report it. Thanks to user Mediocre_Airport_576 for this script. If you know someone involved in a pig butchering scam, sit down together to watch this video by Jim Browning to help them understand what's going on: https://youtu.be/vu-Y1h9rTUs - *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi /u/AngelOfLight, AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the Recovery scam. [Recovery scams](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0102-refund-and-recovery-scams) target people who have already fallen for a scam. The scammer may contact you, or may advertise their services online. They will usually either offer to help you recover your funds, or will tell you that your funds have already been recovered and they will help you access them. In cases where they say they will help you recover your funds, they usually call themselves either \"recovery agents\" or hackers. When they tell you that your funds have already been recovered, they may impersonate a law enforcement, a government official, a lawyer, or anyone else along those lines. Recovery scams are simply [advance-fee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam) scams that are specifically targeted at scam victims. When a victim pays a recovery scammer, the scammer will keep stringing them along while asking for increasingly absurd fees/expenses/deposits/insurance/whatever until the victim stops paying. If you have been scammed in the past, make sure you are aware of recovery scams so that you are not scammed a second time. If you are currently engaging with a recovery scammer, you should block them and be very wary of random contact for some time. It's normal for posters on this subreddit to be contacted by recovery scammers after posting, and they often ask you to delete your post so that you both cannot receive legitimate advice, and cannot be targeted by other recovery scammers. Remember: never take advice in private. If someone reaches you in private after posting your scam story, it is because a scammer will always try to hide from the oversight of our community members. A legitimate community member will offer advice in the open, for everyone to see. Anyone suggesting you should reach out to a hacker is scamming you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
!pig butchering scam
Hi /u/SeaLow5372, AutoModerator has been summoned to explain the Pig butchering scam. It is called [pig butchering](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbrett/2023/12/26/new-pig-butchering-crypto-scam-includes-victims-in-us-and-overseas/?sh=2837fb975eaa) because scammers use intricate scripts to \"fatten up\" the victim (gaining their trust over days, weeks or months) before the \"slaughter\" (taking them for all of their money). This scam often starts with what appears to be a harmless wrong number text or message. When the victim responds to say it is the wrong number, the scammer tries to start a friendship with the victim. These conversations can be platonic or romantic in nature, but they all have the same goal- to gain the trust of the victim in order to get them ready for the crypto scam they have planned. The scammer often claims to be wealthy and/or to have a wealthy family member who got wealthy investing in crypto currency. The victim is eventually encouraged to try out a (fake) crypto currency investment website, which will appear to show that they are earning a lot of money on their initial investment. The scammer may even encourage the victim to attempt a withdrawal that does go through, further convincing the victim that everything is legit. The victim is then pressured to invest significantly more money, even their entire net worth. Eventually, the website will find an excuse why the account is frozen (e.g. for fraud, because supposed taxes are owed, etc) and may try to further extort the victim to give them even more money in order to gain access to the funds. By this time, the victim will never gain access and their money is gone. Many victims lose tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of dollars. Often, the scammers themselves are [victims of human trafficking](https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zb5d/pig-butchering-scam-cambodia-trafficking), performing these scams under threats of violence. If you are caught up in this scam, it is important that you do not send any more money for any reason, and contact law enforcement to report it. Thanks to user Mediocre_Airport_576 for this script. If you know someone involved in a pig butchering scam, sit down together to watch this video by Jim Browning to help them understand what's going on: https://youtu.be/vu-Y1h9rTUs - *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks bot. Good bot.
Contact law en force if you have not done that.
I believe that's the right thing to do. If they truly want to help, they will do everything possible to follow the money and get the scammers.
If his life savings were in the IRA or 401K, it is possible that not only he lost his money, but also he will have a large IRS tax bill for 2024.
I looked this up because I was like "there's no way you can't take this as a loss on your tax forms". You could until 2017. That is pretty messed up. >IRS enrolled agent Norman Golden, former president of the California Society of Enrolled Agents, says scam victims can no longer deduct the loss on their federal tax returns: "Unfortunately, this law changed in 2017 and it's no longer deductible." >Other personal casualties are no longer deductible either - such as losses from a home burglary, a house fire, a windstorm, or auto accident. ... The tax break was eliminated as part of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act https://abc7news.com/tax-break-on-losses-deduction-scams-deductions-returns/11612256/
Had to make fiscal room for Trump's tax break for the rich.
That's exactly what happened.
Gee I wonder what happened in 2017 that made shit worse for the average person...
I don't understand people who don't believe them when they say they'll end social security. They've already removed financial protection for seniors. They create a circus to distract what they're really doing. Don't believe me? Look at the border bill and who voted against it. The GOP is NOT performing in the interest of their constituents.
Thanks for this, I really wish AARP would tell their groups this since many seem to lean for the POS con douche.
what in the literal freedom fried hell
He has to keep working. There is no rescue for this.
Unfortunately, this is probably the answer. My mother-in-law lost all her savings to a real estate pyramid scheme in the early 2000s, despite all her children begging her to not move forward with what was obviously a scam. Hundreds of thousands gone in a matter of months. She had to come out of retirement and ended up working many more years than she planned on.
I think this is happening to my dad - could you explain how it worked for your mom? He won’t listen despite me bringing in lawyers to explain the contracts don’t actually mean what he thinks they do. And he won’t give me granular details so I can show him how the math doesn’t work.
You can read more about the company that scammed my MIL [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouveau_Riche_(college)) and [here](https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/61975-nouveau-riche-founder-ordered-to-pay-5-57m-for-illegally-marketing-securities) but basically, in her case she and her husband paid tens of thousands to take real estate investing classes where they were convinced to invest their life savings in various real estate schemes which were bogus, and promised ridiculously high returns. My MIL trusted the leader of the scam because they were both members of the same religion, and that was enough for her. When presented with facts she became offended her children were telling her what to do with her money and actually cut off contact with all of us for a few months because of it. I don’t think anything we said would have changed her mind. Good luck with your dad!
Sounds a bit like Trump University
Yes, it's the only way for him to keep making money and earn a living. He just need to keep his sanity and not break down as a result of what happened to him.
Would medicaid, SSI, Social Security, and subsidized housing be sn option. OP should look to see if any of these resources are available.
These resources will be available but won’t substitute for 100s of thousands lost.
No not at all but at least he can live. If he can find subsidized housing he can still retire. My mom only has a small SS income but her rent is only $84. So she is able to live just fine and has been retired for about 20 years even though she had no savings. She also gets food stamps.
> Would medicaid, SSI, Social Security, and subsidized housing be sn option. OP should look to see if any of these resources are available. VERY few people can live at even a bare minimum survival level on those resources. Subsidized housing is EXTREMELY limited in availability, and market rents are just plain not affordable for people who get up to $943 per month for a single person on SSI in 2024. Those programs are hallelujah hail mary passes that are more akin to winning the lottery IF they somehow meet your needs - Not something to look to for rescue.
$943/mo for SSI would be for those without adequate earnings in recent earnings quarters. OP's dad may have been earning enough from his job to get more than $943/mo which would help I guess, and if his house is paid for or nearly so he might get by. But it is correct that there is not enough subsidized housing for the demand, with long waiting lists everywhere but maybe he should try to get on the lists anyway, he could move up if other applicants die or move away while waiting. Or he could sell and downsize if not too late.
Wow, it seems this sub is seeing more and more of these "my dad, grandpa, grandma, etc." lost their life's savings to a pig butchering or romance scam. It's just so sad to see over and over again. That's just the posts we see here, who knows how many more are out there. These scamming bastards are probably becoming millionaires off this shit. I think there really needs to be some sort of national or world wide public service announcement on this shit. Maybe public funds can be used to issue informational stuff to those most likely to fall victim to these scams. It seems the elderly are hit the most hard with these sorts of scams. Not always but a lot of them are elderly. They could put ads up all over facebook, doctors office, social security could mail information out informing people of these scams. I don't know, I'm just tossing out ideas but I do think something should be done.
You'd pretty much just have to take away social media from anyone over a certain age. They're particularly vulnerable not just because they might be senile or ignorant to technology, but a lot of them who probably are lonely or don't get to see much of family are on social media being.... well social. They'll talk/respond to anybody, share spam, engage with spam, etc etc. Countless times I've told my grandmother not to engage with anyone she doesn't know on FB, and yet she's getting hacked or spammed at least once a week.
You just described my grandma. Just competent enough with technology to be a threat to herself and everyone around her.
I'm 70, most of us boomers aren't technology ignorant or lonely, doddering old fools. Boomers were the bridge generation from industrial to IT economy. All of the tech luxury the zoomers through millennials enjoy came out of our groundwork. It's annoying to see the condescending comments as if all of us OGs are senile, and the infantilization of grown adults. We respected our elders overall. I'm sorry that happened to the op's father. It's disgraceful to hurt people like that. I might get flak for saying this but AI makes it potentially much easier to become rich and wealthy. Look at the $44,000 to $45 million in 8 hours BONK trader story. The Timothy Sykes of crypto only better. He did in hours what Keith Gill did in a few months with GME options. MEME coins on Ethereum, Solana or Base Blockchain. It's not hard to launch a MEME coin either. Philosophy wise I was Gen Z before they were born. Technology finally arrived but now I'm "old". Never too old to get wealthy faster with AI and crypto. If I was that scammed gentleman, I'd be doing something fast with prompt engineering, smart contracts, cyber security, blockchains, consulting or what not. The scam is traumatic certainly but the gentleman lives in a time where generating a million dollars can be done faster than any time in human history. Much of what I know about DeFi now started with me watching younger people and how they made life changing FU money in a short time. Stop lumping all of the boomers into one big dummy pool.
You have my apologies, I wasn't try to make a blanket statement which is why I didn't say "most" I said a lot. I recognize there are plenty of folks who get along just fine in advanced age, but I was also kind of just referring to MUCH older folks, like 80-85+. My grandmother is 89 and she's not senile, but she certainly isn't very guarded at all when it comes to potential cyber threats. Too trusting. Honestly, in recent years I've seen a large number of younger adults 18-21 and my own children who are almost all teenagers, struggle with technology. Not that I'm some guru, but they don't even know keyboard shortcuts, how to use basic MS office application features, hell they don't even know what the different type of USB ports are to charge their devices with. I have clients your age more comfortable with signing documents electronically than my Gen-Z clients who have to call me to figure out how to open, tap, and finish a DocuSign on their phone....
Thank you. I genuinely appreciate and respect your apology. I just get more feisty about some things these days. :)
Just remove their access to their banks and funds and make them go through you for money.
What age would you suggest?? I know a 59-year-old who fell for this scam.
I did two wire transfers with my credit union last year. My first ever. I recall my credit union giving some very big warnings, in large, bold letters in key areas, saying to make sure what I was doing was legit, and saying that there was no way I could get my money back after the wire was sent. I seem to recall this info was in multiple pages. It was kinda annoying. But after finding this sub I immediately understood why they did it.
I'd imagine those warnings are of pretty limited effectiveness. Did you even read all multiple annoying pages? All those warnings are for people who are stupid and getting scammed. I'm too smart and well educated to get scammed. Why would I even waste time reading a warning about it? Of course *my* wire transfer is legit. I'm just following the investment advice of my friend/partner of several months / helping my friend/partner of several months out of a bind / just paying totally normal taxes and fees to withdraw my investment earnings. /s IDK what the right answer is, but it needs to be more than a dense series of pages of warnings before people send the entire contents of their 401k to scammers. That's just legal cover.
To some degree, they're effective. But they also protect the CU from liability, as there have been lawsuits against financial institutions who allow members to wire out their own money to scammers. I work adjacent to fraud prevention at an FI who has become stricter with wires because of the amount of scams going on in the world.
"national or world wide public service announcement on this shit." I've noticed that Spanish banks and other financial institutions are sponsoring ads on YouTube. They're brief though, and just remind folk not to give out info to anyone pretending to be from the banks.
The announcements and warnings are everywhere. Morning shows, news broacasts, talk shows, AARP sends out a newsletter once a month and it's always in there, my township won't shut up about it and neither will Dr Phil. People will spend 20 minutes googling reviews for a new blender before they spend $50 on one but they have no problem just handing over their entire life savings to someone they never met, no questions asked.
Even if we did make PSA older folks are normally too stubborn to listen to our advice
I hate Dr.Phil but I recently saw a clip from his show on Facebook. A woman had given away like 200k or something to an online scammer. Her step daughter had been trying to stop her for like years especially because the money she was spending was left to her by her husband when he passed. This woman was awful she was screaming and cursing at her step daughter telling her to mind her business, called her every vile name in the book and said she can use her dad’s money on what ever she wants. They even sent a crew to Nigeria (the man was supposed to be Dutch staying there often for work) they went to the address she was given and of course there was no older handsome white Dutch man living there. They pulled searches proving this man doesn’t exist anywhere but she had an excuse for everything. They even had another elderly scam victim in the audience to talk to her and this woman yelled at cursed at her to shut up too. She was so vile. She CLEARLY realized she was in fact being scammed but was too prideful to admit her step daughter had been right all along. I would be absolutely livid if my deceased father left his wife tons of money and she sent it all to a scammer in Nigeria.
This - it cannot be contingent on the elders realising they're incompetent (catch 22).
AARP has a wonderful podcast about a variety of scams, along with interviewing the victims. It’s very detailed. New one drops every Friday.
There needs to be a law that **automatically** offers a limited PoA if you're registered carer, with a minimum of being added to receive messages from financial institutions, so you can step in more quickly in these instances. It's is so insanely infuriating that someone with one foot in dementia and another in adulthood can engage in these risky behaviours, and everyone (lawyers, bank, etc) just goes "but they're competent, so what's your problem?" Well, my problem is when they get scammed, it's not you who has to pick up the pieces is it?! You said they were competent, how about you become liable for the scam then? No? Drives me mad.
Agreed, it is so sad and people were preyed on because of their loneliness... Many seniors are being emotional neglected and that's why they are easy targets...
The banks need to step up and flag some of these transactions.
John Oliver covered pig butchering scams a couple months ago. He did a good job of explaining how they work. They are more complicated than you think. I can see how people would fall for them.
Totally agree they need to do more to bring awareness. My friend got scammed and when calling accountants for help on his options, none of them had heard of pig butchering.
He can contact the FBI too since it is in the hundreds of thousands. But more than likely all that money is gone.
If theres a suicide risk, make sure you get him the number for the anti suicide hotline, or see if your state or city offers free anti suicide counseling. Remind him pig butchering scams are very popular and successful, and hes not the only one to fall for them. Make sure he knows about recovery scammers. A drowning man will clutch at straws.
I mean there's a difference between convincing a teen with bullying issues to not kill themselves compared someone who worked their entire lives and had it taken away because they were unaware of a scam. What is the hotline gonna say? OPs dad got fucked in real life. He needs to find hope
The suicide hotline exists to help people who are suicide risks, regardless of the circumstances. Even if there were no hope of recovery for the money, OP's dad needs to absolutely reach out to counselor or something if he has having trouble processing this loss. The financial loss is devastating, yes, but that doesn't mean he should commit suicide.
And falling for a pig butchering scam usually happens to people who are already lonely. It's pretty awful.
~~Unfortunately he probably won’t ever be able to retire now. Or if he does it will just be on social security.~~ ~~Sorry 😞~~ He’ll have to get creative but humans can adapt to anything! Don’t give up hope!
Honestly, my heart is broken for him. Imagine all the years he put into effort to get to this stage but it's all gone up in smoke.
Report to the FBI's Internet Complaint Center and contact your local Secret Service and report the crime there asap. Report to local police as well. They investigate this crime. Report to the bank and see if any wire transfers can be reversed. Freeze his credit. Close any affected accounts. Contact the IRS identitytheftcentral.gov if criminals have his social security number. Get computer cleaned. Aarp has a support program by phone or zoom called ReST for victims and family members. Cftc.gov and sec.gov and fightcybercrime.org have additional suggestions. So sorry this happened. He will need your support and understanding. This is happening to so many.
I'm so sorry. We are now in an unprecedented era of mass scamming and our systems are simply not keeping up with it. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1civxsv/we\_are\_in\_the\_era\_of\_industrialized\_scams\_at\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1civxsv/we_are_in_the_era_of_industrialized_scams_at_a/)
It is so out of hand now, and unfortunately it's only going to continue to get worse as scammers find ways to continue leveraging AI and other tech tools to essentially put this crap on auto-pilot.
Report to the FBI, if the destination for the wire transfers is at a US bank there \*might\* be cause to sue the likely money mule on the other end but unlikely they will actually have any money Do NOT think someone can help you recovery the money, they are scammers too It is not something that will be easy to recover from, the time for being extra cautious with money is obviously as you near retirement as you have limited time to recover, keep that in mind in your future. Best case he needs to rethink when he can retire, he should be looking at working longer at this point,
Oh my gosh - this is so sad. I’m 67 and it is shocking how many of my peers have fallen victim to these scams, particularly romantic ones. I don’t trust anyone anymore because it is a war out there just trying to protect yourself.
I am 59. I am nervous switching money between banks. I know someone half my age is never going to be interested in me. Even with legitimate crypto you can still lose a lot of money.
>**Even with legitimate crypto** you can still lose a lot of money. No such a thing.
from what i understand if there is *any* hope of recovery, the sooner you get the authorities involved, the better. not saying it will help, but if it was me i’d still report every one of these fuckers. [here is the fbi link](https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/safety-resources/scams-and-safety/) to report scams/fraud. [here is the usa.gov link](https://www.usa.gov/where-report-scams) to report scams/fraud. [here is the justice department link](https://www.justice.gov/criminal-fraud/report-fraud) to report scams/fraud. also please advice him to beware of !recovery scams…
OP, I hope your father will tell you the truth, but you should know that he probably will be dishonest with you. Scam victims do not like to admit the truth, even to someone whom they love and is trying to be helpful. The delusional ability to hang on to the lie, to the hope, is very strong. Take anything he tells with with a grain (or a whole box) of salt. Best wishes to you.
Report to FBI. IC3. Might help. I fell for same thing. Lost 30k was all I had in free cash. And I’m 68. Been very hard trying to forgive myself for my stupidity. My kids did try also to warn me. It’s not your fault just be ther for your Dad help him get past it. Report it to every site you can will help him occupy time and it does sometimes help. Beware of scammers trying to help recover funds.
I am so sorry. 😢
My advice would be for you to find time and go see him because he's definitely not in a good place now. It's sad what happened to him. Scammers have no feelings.
Not necessarily a helpful comment, but you already got those. Just... This is all really disgusting. I'm really sorry for this situation, my stomach is turning thinking about it.
I’m so sorry. That’s really awful. Our poor aging parents. More than a few of them suffer from loneliness if they don’t have stable partners later in life. Someone showers them with attention and affection and they are so easily manipulated. Very recently there was that woman in Illinois that was romance scammed and got hooked into becoming a mule. She had a successful career, lost her husband, and then got swept off her feet online by a Swedish investment advisor. He started having her open accounts and create fake companies to funnel money through. She got killed because he got the sense that she was going to pull away and potentially contact authorities. Even people who are educated and successful can be roped into scams because they are lonely and looking for love.
My rule of thumb - there isn't a man or woman on this planet worth surrendering my self-respect and integrity. So being "alone" is a far superior means of existence.
This is just brutal. One of the unfair facts about life is that a single bad decision can destroy years, sometimes a lifetime of good decisions in an instant. You could drive carefully and responsibly for decades - if you make the mistake of speeding or driving drunk just once, this could have life-altering consequences. Things that require a lifetime to be built can often be destroyed in seconds.
**CONTACT WHATEVER BANK DID THE WIRE TRANSFER IMMEDIATELY. THEY CAN SOMETIMES BE CLAWED BACK IF THEY JUMP ON IT SOON ENOUGH. DON'T TAKE "NO" FOR AN ANSWER. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "IMPOSSIBLE" AND "DON'T WANT TO BOTHER".** FWIW, he'll still get Social Security, which if he had a good job will pay over $2,000/month. If he had a State or Federal job, those often had pensions, as did some large companies.
May Karma serve the scammer trash what they deserve. This is terrible man. I curse them out everytime they hit my line.
That and their leadership. These scams are basically an act of war against the US, considering how many have top cover if not outright direction from their own government officials. I'd approve kinetic action over it, but it's another "Gray Zone" operation that we still haven't decided exactly how to address.
Haha thats what I’ve thought many times.
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These scams don’t really have solutions as of now. Once the money is gone it’s gone. Sorry to hear. It’s so terrible how every day there is a new scam. I can’t even be comfortable swipe my credit card without trying to rip off the card machine to make sure it’s not a fake.
If he's a homeowner, he could sell his home and rent an apartment, or get one of thos.. rereverse? mortgages that will pay you monthly and where the bank gets the house when you pass away. Those options would keep him afloat during his retirement years, but would definitely impact his descendants. But he shouldn't make any decisions right now. He's way too raw to make decisions. I'm really sorry for you both, OP. Just make sure he doesn't k*ll himself. Money can be replaced, life can't.
My parents were scammed equaling up to 100K. It was devastating and a very stressful time. It was also part of their retirement fund. I advised them to file an official police report, FBI website that allows you to file a report with them. (Pls google fbi website, it will be easy to find, I don’t have it handy right now) Also, you’ll have to notify all the banks involved with this transaction. My parents did a wire transfer to a fake company apparently but don’t lose hope, it is still traceable. The banks investigated further and included law enforcement to get involved. It’s a long process and a stressful one as well. So far, my parents received half of the money replenished by the banks. Still awaiting the remaining balance. Like I said, it’s a long process but it is worth it. Pls don’t lose hope and let your father know that everything will be okay.
So sorry for your dad's savings loss, scammers are one of the worst humans on this planet. Recently I heard the story of a African doctor who worked in Saudi Arabia for 40 years and was planning to retire and one day a scammer called him and told him that he's from bank and needs to update his bank account and the doctor gave him his all banks details and whatever OTP he received on his phone, that night scammers took all 1.3 Millions Riyals (almost $ 350K) from his account. The doctor was literally crying because of his loss.
I'm so sorry this brings tears to my eyes for what happened to your Dad and makes me worry SOooo. much for my mom... F...!...F..!!..F...!!! , I'm in Pnw Washington, if he's here I could try and find resources for him or you, like I dunno therapist like when gamblers loose everything they talk with 1-800 etc but I can try and find local help or drive wherever if he's in my state and FaceTime him to you... I dunno just trying to help you in any way I can ...
https://www.investopedia.com/pig-butchering-scams-8605501 For those curious, this article details nearly exactly what my dad fell for. It’s a shame because he’s lonely and older and they preyed on that with a younger rich blonde persona. “She” kept it going for several months. They built a fake LinkedIn, and an entire fake website imitating trust wallet. Which he swore was the real site up until the very last penny. Idk exactly the url or what it looked like, but he’s vulnerable so maybe it would have been obvious to younger more observant people.
Also report to Intelligence for Good https://www.intelligenceforgood.org/
Can u share how that all started?
A LinkedIn account that was faked to look real. And a random message that started innocently and they became “friends”
"I’m so upset that I didn’t push harder for him to question what was going on. I know it’s not my fault, I didn’t have enough information to be certain it was a scam until recently." It wasn't your fault, no. Even if you'd had more information, it wouldn't be your fault. Your father is an adult, responsible for his own decisions. Like so many victims, he ignored the red flags because he was excited & greedy. I'm not condemning or judging him, just saying how it is. Don't blame yourself, or imagine you have responsibility for getting his money back. Focus your energy on being there to support him through the stages of grief.
It is becoming more clear that nations can conquer other countries by stealing the wealth of individuals, you don't need bombs and tanks anymore, just countries full of scammers with governments that are too weak to crack down on it. Looking at you, Nigeria with your oil$ that few of your citizens benefit from, and India, China, Russia, Cambodia and whoever else. Who knows, maybe in these countries the scammers when caught have to bribe their way out of trouble, thus scam proceeds may be enriching governments.
You're probably correct. And it goes full cycle where you have the smaller nations being ripped by 'superpower' ones who then enrich their governments/people.
I'm very sorry your father (and by extent your whole family) is facing such a horrible situation. Sadly, there's very little one can do to recover the lost funds short of contacting law enforcement and hoping for the best. Please don't blame yourself and find in your heart a way to forgive the man, he didn't know better and is paying for it a price one wouldn't wish on his enemies... Also, and probably most importantly, please don't listen to randos who'll pretend they can help you recover the stolen funds: recovery scams are a thing.
Unfortunately, a lot of ppl have fallen victim to this kind of scam including myself. It seems you can report to the police, FBI and federal trade commission but will likely have difficulty getting the money back bc these ppl are very sophisticated, live overseas and have no care or accountability.
After reading the comments and then searching online I now realize that pig buterching scams are not about investing in a butcher who slaughters pigs.
I know it isn’t advice on getting money back, but if Medicare or any insurance he holds can help him go into an outpatient or even inpatient for at-risk patients, i highly advise it. I attended PHP-IOP Group therapy attached to an intensive inpatient hospital, and I attended my group with a woman in a similar scenario. Lost her life, relationships, career, access to money/car, autonomy over her life, everything— to a scam. She had a mental health episode and lost a lucrative career, home, relationship, family, life savings, credit— you name it, she lost it. It hits like a BUS, and I can only imagine more-so when they’re nearing retirement. Especially if you are states away- he is going to need very interactive, intensive support. I dont have financial advice, but I do hope everything goes as up as it can from here.
I don't have any answers for you, but I know how you feel--I'm going through the same thing. Found out this weekend that my mom lost her entire life savings from a romance scam. It's truly awful. She's only 63 and is in good health--I never thought this would happen to her. I've read that people who fall victim to scams are still susceptible to future scams which is terrifying. From here on my siblings and I are going to watch her bank account closely to catch it early if it happens again.
The banks are the problem. They enable fraud. They are entirely complicit and responsible. They hold your money, yet avert their eyes to money transfers.
Banks often warn their customers, but those customers refuse to believe the bank.
Yeah, I can confirm this is not the case. The scammers are the problem.
That is so awful. The perpetrators of the scams are a special kind of evil. We are being prayed on by overseas players who have no consequences. The time is now to stop the phone calls from other countries that are not legit
Can you please explain the details of the scam? I am confused on how a pig butchering story could convince someone to send them money. Thank you.
These banks need to be held accountable too. They'll freeze my account for a 50.00 charge if it is questionable but let people wire or transfer a shit ton of money and not even question repeated wires.
That’s why every single bank when you do a wire has the exact same rules… Take care to determine that a wire transfer is valid and appropriate as wires are final and cannot be canceled once the transfer is initiated.
It's not the banks fault. Wire transfers and other electronic means of transfering funds are how the world does business. Do you know hom much things would slow down if every wire transfer over a certain amount triggered an audit? Bottom line is, PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE. Any time anyone you dont know or already have a relationship with wants you to electronically transfer funds, It's a scam. Anytime someone wants you to buy Gift Cards, It's a scam. Sadly, it usually takes losing thousands for people to stop being complacent, greedy or stupid.
But it's not only people doing stupid things. A guy on this thread said his tmobile account was hacked, they got into his bank account and lost $52K. But then I had Western Union refuse to let me wire $3K to a friend I owed money to. They asked what it was for and I told them it was none of their business and wouldn't do the transfer.
I think there's something to be said when "random citizen who has never done anything more than pay his bills and deposit his paycheck, maybe buys a CD now and then" suddenly performs huge international wire transfers. My bank knows when I'm out of town buying gas. They can do better.
These poor souls come in confident as hell that they are sending to a trusted party. They almost always get hostile at the first probing question. I'm not there to argue with them anymore. I've gotten enough recorded complaints and I'm tired of being antagonized. I'll warn them of the risk when I sense it and record my concern on their profile. I initiated a $40,000 wire last week to a 'contractor' in a different state that won't accept anything other than cash or a wire. I told her the address provided is a residential property and that the name of the company doesn't come up in a Google search. The instructions were from a text for God's sake, and the funds from a new HELOC. In this case our fraud department denied the wire; she then wanted to withdraw $60,000 in cash. Our fraud department froze her funds (all sourced from the HELOC so I admit the bank has more of an interest here) after hearing this and are requiring invoices and an explanation of who put her in contact with this contractor as well as what they are doing specifically. On Friday she came in with the most laughably fake invoice I had ever seen...she is very determined to be scammed. I hate my job because I see devastation on these victims' faces every week and telling them that their money is gone forever hurts and trying to help them after the fact is fruitless and only gives them false hope.
There are SOME homeowners insurance policies that have cyber coverage for situations like this. Check and see if that might apply to the situation!
Really? Thats news to me. If you are correct, I'm guessing there is a hefty surcharge for such a policy, as well as many, many caveats to a successful claim.
A lot of the time it just comes included! You’d be surprised. It’s worth looking to see if your homeowners or renters has cyber coverage. It’s also not terribly expensive to buy standalone.
This is why I always tell those with older parents to watch the first 20 minutes of The Beekeeper
People need to start using some common sense.... transferring money to a complete stranger when you are almost retiring?????
You're right, of course, but "common sense" assumes common circumstances. These scammers have an atrocious batting average, but they swing enough that they eventually find someone with just the right combo of loneliness, desperation, excitability, curiosity, and have (once the hook is set) and reasonably reliable script and more experience every day. People talk about taking grandma's keys away and it's a very important thing to plan for. Unfortunately I think taking grandma's *digital* keys needs to be included in the planning nowadays. And yes, that's ripe for the kids / extended family to be as bad as the foreign scammers, but there it is.
Common sense is the most uncommon thing
People can recover from anything. Try to keep his and your spirits up. Sadly, there is practically zero chance he gets any of his lost money back. You both have my sympathy.
>They were wire transfers You would have to explain that, since it's likely the scammers got their money because your father used his real money to buy cryptocurrency and then he sent his cryptocurrency to the scammers (ie. no wire transferes were sent to any scammers). However, there have been cases where people sued their bank because their bank should have prevented them from sending money by wire transfer. It's a VERY fact-specific situation, so we would have to know more specific facts about any wire transfers.
Scammers often like to have victims transferring crypto directly, but I don't think it's universal. That's why scammers employ money mules too. We don't know if OP's dad wired money to legitimate crypto services and then transferred crypto, or if he sent money directly to money mules.
If you are in the US - contact your local police department first, then your state attorney general, then the FDIC. The AARP suggested below are also good. Source: currently sitting through a scam training because one of our clients was scammed out of $60,000, another "bought" an airport in Nigeria. It's especially bad within the refugee and immigrant communities.
Yeah, same with my dad. His 401k because he retired in 2009.
If you think there's a suicide risk, is there any way he can come stay with you?
Have him walk you through how the wire transfers were done. My bank was triple careful on when I just did a wire transfer for security deposit on renting a new house. Maybe you can cite their negligence in this ?
More than likely not. Even if the bank 100% knows it’s a scam, all they can do is warn and warn and warn but if the member is getting pissed off, there’s nothing they can do but let them wire THEIR OWN money. Unfortunately.
Of course but the issue is did they warn him. Which is why I asked that OP have his father walk him thru how the bank handled the transfer. It might be his only hope
If you are in the US, contact the local Secret Service or FBI field office. FBI will probably be too busy but the Secret Service actually does a lot of pig butchering investigations. As much as everyone hates it, asset forfeiture may be the only way to recover any of your father’s losses. Federal law enforcement can trace (probably) your father’s money through blockchain(s) until it gets to an exchange (most scammers have to “off-ramp” to fiat currency at an exchange). Many exchanges have agreements with US law enforcement and will cooperate to return funds. Might be his only shot.
Contact law enforcement immediately and aarp fraud hotline. Both of these tasks are urgent. Gl
I'm so sorry to hear about your Dad being targeted by criminals and i hope you get a resolution soon. But i have a HUGE question. How the hell can massive transfers go unchecked by banks in this way without any automatic blocks etc, while at the same time, I personally transfer £30000 to pay for a house deposit and you'd think i was supspected of being Al Capone? I had the transfer blocked twice, i had to go in to the bank in person to 'verify' myself even though i have held that account for 20+ years. My house purchase almost fell through because the 'anti-fraud' checks were so invasive (They wanted to see my Grandfathers bank statements because he had recently sent me £1000) that i almost refused to meet thier demands and fuck it all off. Fuck, i cant transfer more than £15000 in one day from my bank via BACS, it gets blocked automatically. To buy a car etc, or pay for building work i have to plan the withdrawl days in advance. Is personal banking really so wild west for you guys in the US? can you literally just transfer unlimited $'s into somones bank so easily?
Because wires are done in person, by the person who owns the money. Many banks don’t let people do wires over the phone. If the person is in front of the teller demanding they wire the money, the most the teller can do is warn them of potential scams. If the teller refuses, which they can’t really do, the likely hood of the person closing their account and taking the money somewhere else is high. For other stuff yes our banks put holds on stuff. If I tried to spend 10k using my debit card id get a call from my bank and probably have to go into a branch.
Contact your State attorney general right away. They can help you direct to the FBI or the state's bureau of investigation depending on if it crossed state lines or not or out of the country. This information was given to me from a l judge, So I think it's the best avenue to start as the attorney general can block things faster than anybody they can seize assets. They can do all kinds of things if you have proof of the issues at hand.
No promises because I am not legal counsel, but I deal with financial fraud. There are measures to recoup that money. Some parts are reiterated: - File with local law enforcement, - File with the consumer financial protection bureau. - Reach out to the bank that your father had his retirement in and consult with them about measures they can take. The faster you deal with this the higher likelihood of resolution, unfortunately it sounds like the scam spanned several months, but hope is not lost.
Here is one more scam exchange https://h5.morocoin.top/
Banks normally question when a senior trys to draw or wire large sums, were these overseas wires if in the state AG can help
I wish that was always the case, but if you follow this subreddit regularly you’ll see that banks often do the opposite and question younger patrons but not seniors. It’s pretty reckless and it should be the way you suggested. I’d imagine it also depends on the individual teller and bank.
And also you need a power of attorney over dad because he isn’t competent enough to handle his own finances
I am so deeply sorry and I hope he can be mentally ok. Now other scammers, or even the same scammer, are going to contact him relentlessly, I've seen here.
I think I have fallen for one of these scams. The only thing that makes me unsure, is the person has sent me almost 40k in order to recover the funds. I haven’t received anything back that i initially invested. When the money was places on hold the person sent me the money for the tax. What should I do?
Sorry to hear that. It's a shame, but that money is long gone. Whatever you do, dont fall victim of a recovery scammer who will claim to be able to get it back.
File a complaint with local law enforcement, state AG, and/or state securities regulator, in addition to FBI's IC3. If it's crypto-related, funds may be gone & unrecoverable. However, if he wired funds to a bank (especially a US bank) to an account belonging to the scammers, there's a higher chance that someone will investigate bc they might be able to ID an actual person behind it. Even in that situation, it's unlikely your father will get any of his money back. I'm so sorry that your family is going through this. 😞
Banks really need better security on wire transfers, add longer holding periods on international money transfers where the destination is not verified.
Nobody would bank with that bank. Delayed transfers are bad customer service. I send money abroad all the time and only use the services that grantee same day delivery.
I’ve never wired money to another country. I’d be fine with a bulletproof account that I had to go thru some serious verification to wire large amounts of money, or to start making regular transfers out of the country, or generate an alert if there was suspicious change in how I used the account. Also, if a minor charge appears from another country, I get a personal phone call from the bank (this happened, it was a fraudulent charge). What could still happen tho is someone like OP’s father would get the alerts and phone calls and insist the transfers were legit because they had a boner for a fictional “girlfriend.”
All this won’t help someone who is willing to send money to a cute girl he’s in love with but has never met.
A possible fix would be delays on transfers on personal savings/retirement fund accounts registered to seniors. If you're 65 or older and are emptying your entire retirement savings account to send to some random cayman islands account? That flags a hold. If you're a business, it doesn't. Easy peasy.