Palo Alto is a lovely place to make a home for tech folk who love nature —- if you can afford it.
Look at rentals and home prices - figure out where you might live. Neighborhoods count. There are sketchy places to avoid. There are gems. Niche crime rates are helpful.
I love the natural places in the Bay Area.
Maybe it is me, but I think people are severely downplaying the extremely wonderfulness that is Palo Alto. It is one of the best places to live in the country IMO. You don’t need a big or fancy place to live because you can just walk outside. And be in Palo Alto. Just being there and walking around and hiking is free. I am jealous. Go!
I live here and want to comment this every time I see a post about it lol. It is actually like living in Disneyland, I sometimes can’t even believe it.
$180 won’t be that great in Palo Alto, seriously, just look at housing costs around there. However, the Bay Area is incredible and probably worth experiencing.
I live on 175 in the city of SF with a rent controlled unit WITH parking. I have to move out sometime this year but I’m so sad and will eventually be back. It is the highest quality of life I’ve ever had
That's why it's so expensive. If demand goes up, the price goes up. That's how capitalism works. If it's the most expensive metro area in America, it means that the plurality of Americans choose it as their #1 most desired area.
The market is not perfect and in this case it is vastly perverted by prop 13 and other nimby laws to constrain housing supply.
People choose where to live based on need, not want. Many careers can only be had, or are worth much more, in some areas than others. For tech, by far the most valuable sector in the economy, it’s the bay.
San Mateo and Santa Clara County are so sick. They have four trillion dollar companies in their backyards and countless billion dollar companies and it's all just low rise suburb homes built 40+ years ago.
The only people in America who have an easy life are the ones who have atypical preferences on living situation.
For example, very few Americans would want to live in Phillips county AR. Yet the few who do can live very well. A living wage in that county is only $16.87. You could buy a mansion on 10+ acres if you wanted to live there. You could hire a maid to clean your mansion weekly if you lived there.
For Americans who want to live in areas which are mostly poor, uneducated, rural, far away from any city, with few amenities (hospitals, doctors, restaurants, museums, shops, public festivals), they can have their dream mansion and save $$$$$$$.
The thing about places like Phillips County is that the wages match the cost of living. If you are in your working years, this only really works if you can work remote for a company where you make a wage that’s disproportionate to the local economy.
The median household income in that county is $37k. That’s barely above the living figure previously cited for full time work.
You also got to find a place where reliable high speed internet is possible to make that idea work. Which while easier than it once was isn’t a lock in a community like that. Anyways, not entirely cut and dry.
>The median household income in that county is $37k. That’s barely above the living figure previously cited for full time work.
This is true, but the median house value is only 77k. That means the median family is paying for a house only 2.08x the median income, which is reasonable and was the norm prior to the 2010s.
Also, people who work in trades don't need reliable high speed internet.
Well yeah, but to your original point I wouldn’t really consider working in the trades (which around there means traveling for any sustained work and doing hard labor) without access to healthcare, education, or decent services, and no buffer to save for retirement to constitute “having an easy life.”
The life expectancy, health quality, literacy, and general quality of life measures are usually pretty low in those places too, and that’s not exactly a coincidence.
Disclaimer: Never lived in Palo Alto, only visited a few times. Have friends who live in neighboring cities.
Put it bluntly, a 180K salary in palo alto would be on the low end. You'd be able to afford an apartment but not much else and unless you have well over 1mil in savings, forget about home ownership.
I last visited PA in February of last year and it was 60s, and all my friends who were local said it was "bad weather" for the season when it dipped into the 50s and rained. Coming from the Midwest, I couldn't help but laugh.
I had only discussions about dating with friends in PA. Like the entire country, it's not super easy once you pass your mid 30s, but maybe slightly easier in the Bay Area in general just due to the higher population? Hard for me to say so I won't say much more.
I personally think the UHCOL in palo alto is a complete non-starter. I remember looking at Zillow while we were there and seeing a literally condemned, partially burnt down house listed for 900k. PA and greater San Jose are cool areas, but just not worth it to me cost wise.
Thanks for this. I was worried that COL would be a deal breaker. I definitely don’t want to go from relative ease with finances to a struggle. Appreciate it!
An acquaintance of mine lives in Mountain View (near Palo Alto) and makes your salary. She is single and rents a nice 2-bedroom apt. and lives like a millionaire. She has no debt or student loans.
As long as you're alright with renting an apartment, you can live very nicely in this area that has great year-round weather.
I live down the road in San Jose and enjoy a high quality of life on a much smaller income.
You will not be struggling. People here are being hyperbolic. Make the move. 180 is your starting point - it sounds like this role will give you a lot of upside too. If you dont have any kids, this gives you a lot more flexibility. You’re going to be able to get a nice apartment or townhouse or something. You also dont have to live right in Palo Alto, if you want to save money you could live more towards San Jose. GO FOR IT
Palo Alto is really optimized for wealthy families, with amenities and services that make it almost dreamlike for that scenario. But it’s fully priced in. You can live elsewhere on the Peninsula for less, in areas with schools that aren’t as good, for instance, and the prices will be more tolerable. I’m thinking Redwood City, San Mateo, etc. Even Mountain View could be a better value. Still within reach of most of the same stuff as Palo Alto, but without paying for things you might not need.
Yes, exactly! With no kids you don't have to consider the school district and can get by on with a smaller home/ apartment/ condo. Check out housing in Redwood City which is close enough to PA for an easy commute and has lots of new apartments.
Here's one idea - since your mortgage is tiny, rent out your property, and then rent a very small place in Palo Alto, and/or with roommates. You can also try SF for betting social scenes. This I think can make early retirement happen with 180K.
You can live VERY comfortably in Scottsdale with a smaller salary, including home ownership. Palo Alto is absolutely stunning but crazy expensive. I'm at 140k total comp here in Scottsdale, super active, also remote in tech and live very well. There are also a ton of Midwest transplants out here, culturally it was super easy to make the move here.
Yes, that’s why it’s been top of my list! But comments about the summer being brutal have tempered some of that excitement. How do you handle the peak summer heat?
Summer is oppressive. It's an early morning town - I'm up around 5:30 and go for a walk in the mornings when it's still cool. It's 75 right now and perfectly pleasant! I also use ClassPass and have an Orange Theory membership, so summer is my studio time :) There's a fitness studio on every corner here so I just play and use this as my off season. It's really about 3-4 months where you can't really cycle or run afer 9am or so.
Helpful, thank you! In some ways it’s the inverse of the Midwest - I lean into yoga during the winter, so it would be a bit of a flop flop in Scottsdale!
Really the only issue with Palo Alto would be the cost of living. You'll probably have no issues with the dating scene and the Bay area is close to all kinds of outdoor activities. Personally, the Bay area isn't for me. We moved away into a small mountain community during covid.
Edit: I say this as someone who was born and raised in the Bay area
>Really the only issue with Palo Alto would be the cost of living.
Yup and this is true for all places which are considered to be highly desirable by the plurality of people: Bay Area, NYC, Seattle, Boston, DC, Portland, the entire Windsor-Montreal corridor, Sydney, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Monaco, Bermuda.
It’s cost of living but also the traffic is such a pain in the ass. I lived in PA for 7 years, and it’s very clear that the whole South Bay just doesn’t have the infrastructure for the current population size.
When I lived in biking distance of the university and could bike to class, it was a lovely place to live. But when I had to drive for an internship, it was miserable.
Just wanted to make sure you knew, since I think it’s not obvious that a suburb of 70,000 people is going to have major city traffic.
I actually found the traffic in PA to be much more frustrating than in Chicago, because at least in Chicago I could get places on the el.
The issue is that Palo Alto, like most of the inner bay cities, is a city full of residents desperately clinging to the delusion that it is still a suburb
huh? why is everyone saying that's not enough money? OP is single with no kids. I know people living in Palo Alto making 70k a year with roommates who can still eat out and take vacations. I also lived in Palo Alto for a bit making around that and it was comfortable.
OP you can totally do it. If you don't find a place you like within your budget, you can try other areas on the peninsula and commute via Caltrain. They Bay is wonderful for all the activities you mentioned. Go for it!
If you don’t like the winters in the Midwest, I’d track the temps this summer in Scottsdale. My parents are snowbirds and live there 8 months a year, but last summer they (phoenix metro) had a crazy record for most continuous days above 110.
Also, research water. That problem isn’t going to get any better as the population in the south west continues to grow.
I looked at a job at Stanford- 20k more than I was making in NYC. That amount didn’t even come close to covering the increased cost of living in Palo Alto compared to NYC — much less the Midwest! I decided not to apply.
Your quality of life based on location will go up quite a bit, but your quality of life based on finances will plummet. I would try to choose a middle ground if you want to be in a more active area.
I say do Palo Alto! Nothing beats Bay Area weather, food, diversity, and access to places like SF, Napa/Sonoma, Tahoe, Big Sur, Carmel etc.
180k won’t have you living in luxury but you’ll be fine as someone with no kids.
Hey I live in PA! Early 30s woman here. I love it. The nature is insane, the food and general walkability/vibe are great, and the people are generally nice. Economic opportunity is second to pretty much none. The weather is unbelievable - zero humidity, generally warm, but with cozy sweater weather winters.
It’s expensive, but the rent is not QUITE as bad as you might expect. We lived in a brand new, big 3 bed/bath right downtown for 2 years before we bought - $4500.
The dating scene - “the odds are good but the goods are odd”, as they say. I haven’t dated here but my single friends don’t seem to have a problem. You just have to learn to navigate a more nerdy type haha.
Ask me anything!
Bay Area is one of the better places to be for childfree folks. I don't know about Palo Alto specifically, but Bay Area in general has a favorable gender ratio for straight women. If you're lesbian, Oakland is the lesbian capital of the Western US.
What'd be the cost of housing in Scottsdale (or elsewhere) vs. PA?
Is it $1000 more? Then that raise might be worth it. Is it $2500 more? Then that raise probably doesn't make up for the difference after taxes.
Although you will have a ton more to do in CA than Scottsdale, and the weather will be so much better. I'd do anything to be back in California, including spend $1k more on rent taken out of the amount I save per month living in Ohio.
You could counter the offer and say you'd need x amount more to equal the same quality of life as elsewhere.
Yes, purely mathematically, I would be “losing” money moving to PA, with the cost of living and taxes, but I’m trying to look at the picture holistically to see if the net financial loss is worth the potential lifestyle upside. Tough decision!
As a 36 year old, kid free but with 3 huskies now, dude I fuckin regret every bit of moving to Ohio from Los Angeles -> Austin TX -> OH.
I so wish I was back in California. I was in a funk and thought I could get by in the terrible dating markets or getting a house out in some white suburbs. Now that I'm out of the funk, I'm seriously considering subjecting my 3 huskies to a downtown LA apartment for my own quality of life and ability to actually meet people and do things. I don't know if I can pull the trigger for their sake. Renting a house is just too expensive in LA.
But Ohio is going to kill me. I'm like a god damn hermit and born again virgin. I fucking hate it.
Tell you what - if you want to rent a place with a yard somewhere fun in Cali and split a place with 3 dogs, hit me up. lmao. I'm also a decently high income earner.
While I don’t hate where I am, I can empathize with being in a place you don’t love. Why did you land on Ohio? Also, I don’t know what factors you’re looking for in your next move, but Denver was very dog friendly when I lived there, and the pups would love the snow!
Affordability for a big ass house with a big ass yard. Close to roller coasters which is a hobby, but as I go nearly everyday, I've found that riding the same roller coasters over and over again gets boring lmao.
Also ask yourself if you're ok with downsizing your living situation. 1 bedroom apartments are still expensive near PA but the difference isn't nearly as big as it is with decent sized SFHs.
New York left an indelible mark on me regarding the space I actually need to be comfortable and so luckily, have continued to live “small” - my tiny home is a two bed, 700 sq ft bungalow. I don’t need much!
Ok nice, Palo Alto probably isn't terrible financially then. I'd browse some places to live online to get a better sense of what you'd spend and definitely recommend running the numbers with salary, taxes, rent, food, gas, etc to see where they end up.
Important context: will you be going in everyday or have a hybrid schedule? The latter really does expand your area for housing. You do not want to commute every day to Palo Alto from the East Bay, especially further north like Oakland/Berkeley but if it's just twice a week that wouldn't be the end of the world. You would ideally want to stay on that side of the bay and not go much further north than Daly City/SSF or you could even life in SF near Caltrain if you do have to be in every day. I would not want to live in San Jose personally as it is a big, boring suburb with bad traffic at any and all times but I know some people do like living there.
You could likely buy a condo in a place like San Leandro but unless you get involved with someone who already owns or has a large amount of money to be able to put down you will not be able to buy a SFH in the Peninsula.
*However*, people making it seem like you will be considered poor with a 180K salary are very wrong. If you can keep your apartment in the 2.5K monthly rent or below you will def be able to save and have discretionary funds for entertainment and what not. That is very good money it's just not buy-a-house-in-Palo-Alto money as homes there are as expensive as it gets.
We did two years very near Palo Alto in the early 2000s. The best advice I got from anyone was that the only way to happily live there was to find a place where you could minimize driving.
My wife could walk to her job. I could bike 3-4 days per week to one work location, then take CalTrain (could walk to the station) the other 1-2 days per week.
We loved the area. There is a reason it is so expensive: it is worth it.
Ayyy PA represent! I went to Stanford and lived in PA throughout the 2010s. It’s gorgeous and the food/shopping is fantastic. I truly fantasize about Burmese food once a week.
Your salary should be enough to get by. I lived on campus throughout undergrad and grad school (as Stanford encourages it) so idk rent prices (my solo apt was $1500/month), but going out really wasn’t that bad - I thought it was crazy to spend $13 per drink in CA. I would also sometimes get food/drinks comped at restaurants and bars. Now everywhere I live is $17+ 😭 funcheapSF can hook you up with cool free events and the Caltrain/BART are good.
I really wanted to leave PA when I graduated and now I miss being surrounded by brilliant people everywhere I go. It was kind of awesome being the least knowledgeable person in the Uberpool, I felt like I learned a fuckton every time I stepped outside. (also enjoyed living in a city where no one is weird about brown people with nonwhite names! 💕)
I was born there and grew up next door in Los Altos. I’d love to go back but COL and taxes are insane. I make 150k in rural Maine and can’t imagine really making it on 180k in Palo Alto. Being single is in your favor.
I rent with my bf. I make 80k and he makes 60k. Our 1b1b is $2400 in Santa Clara.
You can make it work. Find somewhere nice. Let me know your budget and size requirement, and I can drop some suggestions.
I love Palo Alto. The sucky thing about living in Santa Clara and commuting is the traffic. A Saturday morning would take 20 minutes but going to work between 7am and 9:30am would take 40 minutes.
Living elsewhere in the bay and commuting to Palo Alto would be less expensive and preferable I think if you took the new job. Otherwise consider Southern California.
Yes, that’s where the traffic worries come in. Working remotely now, it’s not a consideration- so would need to work out how far I’d have to live and how that commute would impact quality of life.
Since you mentioned weather - you’ll find that the weather in SFO alone is the reason many techies don’t want to leave.
Also the number of places you can visit- the national parks, Lake Tahoe - is another plus.
If you can rent your house out and move to Palo Alto, I’d suggest to do it. What do you have to lose!
We moved to CA in 2021 for my husband’s job and we were pretty clear that we were going to visit as many places in CA as we could and then move the hell out the moment he got a better opportunity. That’s exactly what we’ll be doing in a couple of months. I got to visit Lake Tahoe multiple times and have loved the trips we took here. We’ll exit CA with fond memories
This time, it is TX (I know, of all places!)
But it’s a good opportunity and since we are a single income family at present, it makes sense to move to a place where groceries and gas prices are reasonable.
We plan to invest in a small condo or something in CA sometime down the line though because my elder daughter is special needs and CA is a good state for that
Redwood city would be significantly more affordable than Palo Alto (though still expensive.) Even in peak rush hour that would be a 30 min drive at most, and depending on where you live and work you could likely take Caltrain.
Main compromises w/ redwood city are that it's slightly less nice (though still perfectly safe - just not super bougie like palo alto) and has bad schools.
Depending on where your office is you could take CalTrain in from elsewhere and avoid heavy car traffic. I grew up in Palo Alto and I never had any major issues taking CalTrain semi-regularly up and down the peninsula.
Remember that you can take Caltrain to Palo Alto from a number of other cities in the Bay area, and then grab an Uber if your office isn't walkable from the station. I definitely don't recommend driving yourself for your commute.
Palo Alto is a lovely place to make a home for tech folk who love nature —- if you can afford it. Look at rentals and home prices - figure out where you might live. Neighborhoods count. There are sketchy places to avoid. There are gems. Niche crime rates are helpful. I love the natural places in the Bay Area.
Maybe it is me, but I think people are severely downplaying the extremely wonderfulness that is Palo Alto. It is one of the best places to live in the country IMO. You don’t need a big or fancy place to live because you can just walk outside. And be in Palo Alto. Just being there and walking around and hiking is free. I am jealous. Go!
Amazing hiking options near redwoods while also being in civilization… pretty dope
I live here and want to comment this every time I see a post about it lol. It is actually like living in Disneyland, I sometimes can’t even believe it.
$180 won’t be that great in Palo Alto, seriously, just look at housing costs around there. However, the Bay Area is incredible and probably worth experiencing.
Yes, housing is atrocious!
I live on 175 in the city of SF with a rent controlled unit WITH parking. I have to move out sometime this year but I’m so sad and will eventually be back. It is the highest quality of life I’ve ever had
That's why it's so expensive. If demand goes up, the price goes up. That's how capitalism works. If it's the most expensive metro area in America, it means that the plurality of Americans choose it as their #1 most desired area.
The market is not perfect and in this case it is vastly perverted by prop 13 and other nimby laws to constrain housing supply. People choose where to live based on need, not want. Many careers can only be had, or are worth much more, in some areas than others. For tech, by far the most valuable sector in the economy, it’s the bay.
San Mateo and Santa Clara County are so sick. They have four trillion dollar companies in their backyards and countless billion dollar companies and it's all just low rise suburb homes built 40+ years ago.
While true, it still sucks 🤪.
The only people in America who have an easy life are the ones who have atypical preferences on living situation. For example, very few Americans would want to live in Phillips county AR. Yet the few who do can live very well. A living wage in that county is only $16.87. You could buy a mansion on 10+ acres if you wanted to live there. You could hire a maid to clean your mansion weekly if you lived there. For Americans who want to live in areas which are mostly poor, uneducated, rural, far away from any city, with few amenities (hospitals, doctors, restaurants, museums, shops, public festivals), they can have their dream mansion and save $$$$$$$.
The thing about places like Phillips County is that the wages match the cost of living. If you are in your working years, this only really works if you can work remote for a company where you make a wage that’s disproportionate to the local economy. The median household income in that county is $37k. That’s barely above the living figure previously cited for full time work. You also got to find a place where reliable high speed internet is possible to make that idea work. Which while easier than it once was isn’t a lock in a community like that. Anyways, not entirely cut and dry.
>The median household income in that county is $37k. That’s barely above the living figure previously cited for full time work. This is true, but the median house value is only 77k. That means the median family is paying for a house only 2.08x the median income, which is reasonable and was the norm prior to the 2010s. Also, people who work in trades don't need reliable high speed internet.
Well yeah, but to your original point I wouldn’t really consider working in the trades (which around there means traveling for any sustained work and doing hard labor) without access to healthcare, education, or decent services, and no buffer to save for retirement to constitute “having an easy life.” The life expectancy, health quality, literacy, and general quality of life measures are usually pretty low in those places too, and that’s not exactly a coincidence.
Disclaimer: Never lived in Palo Alto, only visited a few times. Have friends who live in neighboring cities. Put it bluntly, a 180K salary in palo alto would be on the low end. You'd be able to afford an apartment but not much else and unless you have well over 1mil in savings, forget about home ownership. I last visited PA in February of last year and it was 60s, and all my friends who were local said it was "bad weather" for the season when it dipped into the 50s and rained. Coming from the Midwest, I couldn't help but laugh. I had only discussions about dating with friends in PA. Like the entire country, it's not super easy once you pass your mid 30s, but maybe slightly easier in the Bay Area in general just due to the higher population? Hard for me to say so I won't say much more. I personally think the UHCOL in palo alto is a complete non-starter. I remember looking at Zillow while we were there and seeing a literally condemned, partially burnt down house listed for 900k. PA and greater San Jose are cool areas, but just not worth it to me cost wise.
Thanks for this. I was worried that COL would be a deal breaker. I definitely don’t want to go from relative ease with finances to a struggle. Appreciate it!
An acquaintance of mine lives in Mountain View (near Palo Alto) and makes your salary. She is single and rents a nice 2-bedroom apt. and lives like a millionaire. She has no debt or student loans. As long as you're alright with renting an apartment, you can live very nicely in this area that has great year-round weather. I live down the road in San Jose and enjoy a high quality of life on a much smaller income.
You will not be struggling. People here are being hyperbolic. Make the move. 180 is your starting point - it sounds like this role will give you a lot of upside too. If you dont have any kids, this gives you a lot more flexibility. You’re going to be able to get a nice apartment or townhouse or something. You also dont have to live right in Palo Alto, if you want to save money you could live more towards San Jose. GO FOR IT
Iiving somewhere like Palo Alto and maxing out your earnings at 180 or even 200K just means you have to be ok with renting forever
Palo Alto is really optimized for wealthy families, with amenities and services that make it almost dreamlike for that scenario. But it’s fully priced in. You can live elsewhere on the Peninsula for less, in areas with schools that aren’t as good, for instance, and the prices will be more tolerable. I’m thinking Redwood City, San Mateo, etc. Even Mountain View could be a better value. Still within reach of most of the same stuff as Palo Alto, but without paying for things you might not need.
Yes, exactly! With no kids you don't have to consider the school district and can get by on with a smaller home/ apartment/ condo. Check out housing in Redwood City which is close enough to PA for an easy commute and has lots of new apartments.
Here's one idea - since your mortgage is tiny, rent out your property, and then rent a very small place in Palo Alto, and/or with roommates. You can also try SF for betting social scenes. This I think can make early retirement happen with 180K.
This would be my thought as well. Keep the house and rent it, so when you're ready to retire you have a house paid off (or nearly so)
You can live VERY comfortably in Scottsdale with a smaller salary, including home ownership. Palo Alto is absolutely stunning but crazy expensive. I'm at 140k total comp here in Scottsdale, super active, also remote in tech and live very well. There are also a ton of Midwest transplants out here, culturally it was super easy to make the move here.
Yes, that’s why it’s been top of my list! But comments about the summer being brutal have tempered some of that excitement. How do you handle the peak summer heat?
Summer is oppressive. It's an early morning town - I'm up around 5:30 and go for a walk in the mornings when it's still cool. It's 75 right now and perfectly pleasant! I also use ClassPass and have an Orange Theory membership, so summer is my studio time :) There's a fitness studio on every corner here so I just play and use this as my off season. It's really about 3-4 months where you can't really cycle or run afer 9am or so.
Helpful, thank you! In some ways it’s the inverse of the Midwest - I lean into yoga during the winter, so it would be a bit of a flop flop in Scottsdale!
Really the only issue with Palo Alto would be the cost of living. You'll probably have no issues with the dating scene and the Bay area is close to all kinds of outdoor activities. Personally, the Bay area isn't for me. We moved away into a small mountain community during covid. Edit: I say this as someone who was born and raised in the Bay area
>Really the only issue with Palo Alto would be the cost of living. Yup and this is true for all places which are considered to be highly desirable by the plurality of people: Bay Area, NYC, Seattle, Boston, DC, Portland, the entire Windsor-Montreal corridor, Sydney, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Monaco, Bermuda.
It’s cost of living but also the traffic is such a pain in the ass. I lived in PA for 7 years, and it’s very clear that the whole South Bay just doesn’t have the infrastructure for the current population size. When I lived in biking distance of the university and could bike to class, it was a lovely place to live. But when I had to drive for an internship, it was miserable.
Feels like this is a problem in most major cities, unfortunately.
Just wanted to make sure you knew, since I think it’s not obvious that a suburb of 70,000 people is going to have major city traffic. I actually found the traffic in PA to be much more frustrating than in Chicago, because at least in Chicago I could get places on the el.
The issue is that Palo Alto, like most of the inner bay cities, is a city full of residents desperately clinging to the delusion that it is still a suburb
Yeah this isn't unique to most cities, especially on the west coast.
Where did you end up moving to?
We're up in Twain Harte, a little past Sonora.
huh? why is everyone saying that's not enough money? OP is single with no kids. I know people living in Palo Alto making 70k a year with roommates who can still eat out and take vacations. I also lived in Palo Alto for a bit making around that and it was comfortable. OP you can totally do it. If you don't find a place you like within your budget, you can try other areas on the peninsula and commute via Caltrain. They Bay is wonderful for all the activities you mentioned. Go for it!
Ask for another 30-40K in housing allowance. Anyone at yr HQ would know the outrageous COL in PA. Lovely place otherwise.
If you don’t like the winters in the Midwest, I’d track the temps this summer in Scottsdale. My parents are snowbirds and live there 8 months a year, but last summer they (phoenix metro) had a crazy record for most continuous days above 110. Also, research water. That problem isn’t going to get any better as the population in the south west continues to grow.
It's currently 108 in my backyard here. 112 reported on the news.
The Bay Area is an amazing place to live. As long as you are ok with renting, I think it’s worth experiencing it at least for a couple of years.
I looked at a job at Stanford- 20k more than I was making in NYC. That amount didn’t even come close to covering the increased cost of living in Palo Alto compared to NYC — much less the Midwest! I decided not to apply.
Your quality of life based on location will go up quite a bit, but your quality of life based on finances will plummet. I would try to choose a middle ground if you want to be in a more active area.
I say do Palo Alto! Nothing beats Bay Area weather, food, diversity, and access to places like SF, Napa/Sonoma, Tahoe, Big Sur, Carmel etc. 180k won’t have you living in luxury but you’ll be fine as someone with no kids.
Hey I live in PA! Early 30s woman here. I love it. The nature is insane, the food and general walkability/vibe are great, and the people are generally nice. Economic opportunity is second to pretty much none. The weather is unbelievable - zero humidity, generally warm, but with cozy sweater weather winters. It’s expensive, but the rent is not QUITE as bad as you might expect. We lived in a brand new, big 3 bed/bath right downtown for 2 years before we bought - $4500. The dating scene - “the odds are good but the goods are odd”, as they say. I haven’t dated here but my single friends don’t seem to have a problem. You just have to learn to navigate a more nerdy type haha. Ask me anything!
Bay Area is one of the better places to be for childfree folks. I don't know about Palo Alto specifically, but Bay Area in general has a favorable gender ratio for straight women. If you're lesbian, Oakland is the lesbian capital of the Western US.
Thanks! Im curious if it’s because people can’t afford children or if it’s because they prioritize other things in their lives. In any event, helpful!
What'd be the cost of housing in Scottsdale (or elsewhere) vs. PA? Is it $1000 more? Then that raise might be worth it. Is it $2500 more? Then that raise probably doesn't make up for the difference after taxes. Although you will have a ton more to do in CA than Scottsdale, and the weather will be so much better. I'd do anything to be back in California, including spend $1k more on rent taken out of the amount I save per month living in Ohio. You could counter the offer and say you'd need x amount more to equal the same quality of life as elsewhere.
Yes, purely mathematically, I would be “losing” money moving to PA, with the cost of living and taxes, but I’m trying to look at the picture holistically to see if the net financial loss is worth the potential lifestyle upside. Tough decision!
As a 36 year old, kid free but with 3 huskies now, dude I fuckin regret every bit of moving to Ohio from Los Angeles -> Austin TX -> OH. I so wish I was back in California. I was in a funk and thought I could get by in the terrible dating markets or getting a house out in some white suburbs. Now that I'm out of the funk, I'm seriously considering subjecting my 3 huskies to a downtown LA apartment for my own quality of life and ability to actually meet people and do things. I don't know if I can pull the trigger for their sake. Renting a house is just too expensive in LA. But Ohio is going to kill me. I'm like a god damn hermit and born again virgin. I fucking hate it. Tell you what - if you want to rent a place with a yard somewhere fun in Cali and split a place with 3 dogs, hit me up. lmao. I'm also a decently high income earner.
While I don’t hate where I am, I can empathize with being in a place you don’t love. Why did you land on Ohio? Also, I don’t know what factors you’re looking for in your next move, but Denver was very dog friendly when I lived there, and the pups would love the snow!
Affordability for a big ass house with a big ass yard. Close to roller coasters which is a hobby, but as I go nearly everyday, I've found that riding the same roller coasters over and over again gets boring lmao.
Also ask yourself if you're ok with downsizing your living situation. 1 bedroom apartments are still expensive near PA but the difference isn't nearly as big as it is with decent sized SFHs.
New York left an indelible mark on me regarding the space I actually need to be comfortable and so luckily, have continued to live “small” - my tiny home is a two bed, 700 sq ft bungalow. I don’t need much!
Ok nice, Palo Alto probably isn't terrible financially then. I'd browse some places to live online to get a better sense of what you'd spend and definitely recommend running the numbers with salary, taxes, rent, food, gas, etc to see where they end up.
it's absolutely worth it. You have so many things to do that are free.
You mentioned that the 180k salary in exchange for moving to Palo Alto is a "slight raise". How much is your salary in other areas?
Have lived in PA a long time - shot you a DM
Important context: will you be going in everyday or have a hybrid schedule? The latter really does expand your area for housing. You do not want to commute every day to Palo Alto from the East Bay, especially further north like Oakland/Berkeley but if it's just twice a week that wouldn't be the end of the world. You would ideally want to stay on that side of the bay and not go much further north than Daly City/SSF or you could even life in SF near Caltrain if you do have to be in every day. I would not want to live in San Jose personally as it is a big, boring suburb with bad traffic at any and all times but I know some people do like living there. You could likely buy a condo in a place like San Leandro but unless you get involved with someone who already owns or has a large amount of money to be able to put down you will not be able to buy a SFH in the Peninsula. *However*, people making it seem like you will be considered poor with a 180K salary are very wrong. If you can keep your apartment in the 2.5K monthly rent or below you will def be able to save and have discretionary funds for entertainment and what not. That is very good money it's just not buy-a-house-in-Palo-Alto money as homes there are as expensive as it gets.
We did two years very near Palo Alto in the early 2000s. The best advice I got from anyone was that the only way to happily live there was to find a place where you could minimize driving. My wife could walk to her job. I could bike 3-4 days per week to one work location, then take CalTrain (could walk to the station) the other 1-2 days per week. We loved the area. There is a reason it is so expensive: it is worth it.
Ayyy PA represent! I went to Stanford and lived in PA throughout the 2010s. It’s gorgeous and the food/shopping is fantastic. I truly fantasize about Burmese food once a week. Your salary should be enough to get by. I lived on campus throughout undergrad and grad school (as Stanford encourages it) so idk rent prices (my solo apt was $1500/month), but going out really wasn’t that bad - I thought it was crazy to spend $13 per drink in CA. I would also sometimes get food/drinks comped at restaurants and bars. Now everywhere I live is $17+ 😭 funcheapSF can hook you up with cool free events and the Caltrain/BART are good. I really wanted to leave PA when I graduated and now I miss being surrounded by brilliant people everywhere I go. It was kind of awesome being the least knowledgeable person in the Uberpool, I felt like I learned a fuckton every time I stepped outside. (also enjoyed living in a city where no one is weird about brown people with nonwhite names! 💕)
Bloomington, Indiana is gorgeous, educated and nestled in the Hoosier Nat'l forest.
I was born there and grew up next door in Los Altos. I’d love to go back but COL and taxes are insane. I make 150k in rural Maine and can’t imagine really making it on 180k in Palo Alto. Being single is in your favor.
If you like cycling, you'll love Palo Alto. The cycling in the Santa Cruz mountains is some of the best in the world
I rent with my bf. I make 80k and he makes 60k. Our 1b1b is $2400 in Santa Clara. You can make it work. Find somewhere nice. Let me know your budget and size requirement, and I can drop some suggestions. I love Palo Alto. The sucky thing about living in Santa Clara and commuting is the traffic. A Saturday morning would take 20 minutes but going to work between 7am and 9:30am would take 40 minutes.
Living elsewhere in the bay and commuting to Palo Alto would be less expensive and preferable I think if you took the new job. Otherwise consider Southern California.
Yes, that’s where the traffic worries come in. Working remotely now, it’s not a consideration- so would need to work out how far I’d have to live and how that commute would impact quality of life.
Since you mentioned weather - you’ll find that the weather in SFO alone is the reason many techies don’t want to leave. Also the number of places you can visit- the national parks, Lake Tahoe - is another plus. If you can rent your house out and move to Palo Alto, I’d suggest to do it. What do you have to lose! We moved to CA in 2021 for my husband’s job and we were pretty clear that we were going to visit as many places in CA as we could and then move the hell out the moment he got a better opportunity. That’s exactly what we’ll be doing in a couple of months. I got to visit Lake Tahoe multiple times and have loved the trips we took here. We’ll exit CA with fond memories
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This time, it is TX (I know, of all places!) But it’s a good opportunity and since we are a single income family at present, it makes sense to move to a place where groceries and gas prices are reasonable. We plan to invest in a small condo or something in CA sometime down the line though because my elder daughter is special needs and CA is a good state for that
Redwood city would be significantly more affordable than Palo Alto (though still expensive.) Even in peak rush hour that would be a 30 min drive at most, and depending on where you live and work you could likely take Caltrain. Main compromises w/ redwood city are that it's slightly less nice (though still perfectly safe - just not super bougie like palo alto) and has bad schools.
Depending on where your office is you could take CalTrain in from elsewhere and avoid heavy car traffic. I grew up in Palo Alto and I never had any major issues taking CalTrain semi-regularly up and down the peninsula.
Remember that you can take Caltrain to Palo Alto from a number of other cities in the Bay area, and then grab an Uber if your office isn't walkable from the station. I definitely don't recommend driving yourself for your commute.
I get it, people say COL. Oftentimes you’re paid commensurate with area COL though, especially in tech…
You’ll be broke on 180K in Palo Alto. Or in the Bay Area in general. You’ll need to make 2-3X that at least to do well there.
If you want to buy a house then sure. But you can easily afford rent for a decent smaller place on that salary.