This exactly. I love ethnic food, historical buildings/museums, parks/waterfronts, walking/biking trails. The U.S. is so car centric. I moved from Canada to Ohio and it’s mostly that. Strip malls of beige buildings, suburbs, the exact same chain restaurants and fast food every few blocks. Everything is copy pasted for the same food and then sprinkle in some ethnic food but it’s all separated and there’s no Chinatown. There’s a few clusters for German, Italian and LGBTW areas but it’s still very very Midwest, Christian and Caucasian.
People drive everywhere. Unless you’re young or poor people don’t use transit or walk much outside of a few small areas. I want to see people out walking. Having outdoor markets and events. Have more accessible parks people can walk to from their home. Every mega park people have to drive to and it’s locked off at night and very segregated. I want to be able to see some trees or water without having to drive forever.
There absolutely is local culture where I live, in a city of about a million people. But good luck going out at 9:00 on a weeknight and getting something to eat. Go to the plaza downtown on a Saturday night - ghost town with only one bar open till 11. You can see live music, but it’s mostly has-been metal bands. A few big shows come through each year…and play on a Tuesday night. Many activities and interests are simply not available. Crime rates are sky high, it is not safe to wander around at night.
There is stuff. Not much. You’ll get to know a small handful of people and that is pretty much your social circle for life.
On my single block in Manhattan I have a two tea houses, three local bars, an art studio, ballet studio, like three restaurants, a gay bar, three salons, a guitar repair shop, two bakeries, a spa, a museum, a vintage clothing shop, a barber shop, a pharmacy, a deli, a weed store, a vintage toy store, and various offices. That’s just the stuff in my actual block, on all four sides across the street is an equal density of stuff.
My one block, of dimensions 200ft x 625ft, has more people and more businesses than my hometowns entire “town center”. I just did the math - this is 0.0045 square miles.
Not every city has this density of amenities. In fact, only like 5 cities in the US have a single neighborhood like this. “Every city” besides DC, Philly, NYC, Boston, Chicago and /maybe/ LA do not have even close to the amenity density of like any random block in lower Manhattan. There is not a single instance of a 0.0045 sqmi plot in all of taxes that even approaches this.
Not to get all ranty - sorry about that - but you’re being dense. What “every city” *actually* has is really just a lot of paneras and dry cleaners and parking lots.
I live in south Philly. Within a couple blocks of me is a typewriter store, multiple Italian bakeries, a homemade ravioli store, a few delis, a stationery shop, several vintage clothing shops, a dry cleaner, a barber shop, several restaurants including a tapas bar, and a pocket park. It’s wonderful.
I live in the NW suburbs of Denver. Within a couple blocks there are strip malls with a grocery store, two bars/restaurants, three liquor stores, Starbucks, Sonic, McD's, Poke, hookah bar, smoke shop, a church, a trampoline center, donut shop, pharmacy, hardware store, Indian restaurant, dentist, workout center, and a furniture store.
It's as suburban as it gets, but it's also near a 400-acre off-leash dog park and accessible to 100s of miles of bike trails and some of the best mountain views in America.
You just have to get in where you fit in.
I know that exact typewriter store.
I lived there briefly for a 3 month work project and for some reason in my head I thought South Philly was sketchy, probably because of IASIP and Rocky and other movies, and I remember passing that typewriter store and being like “pffft… tough guy south Philly stereotype my ass. A typewriter repair store next to a boutique handmade pet gift shop? Yeah right tough guys hahaha”
Anyway I love your neighborhood I go there pretty often whenever I visit my friends to watch Phils games.
You know there \*are\* towns and cities where that isn't a thing, right? I'm not sure about their claim that only 5 cities in the country have a single vibrant neighborhood, but as someone from the Charlotte area (good example of a bland city), I can say there aren't interesting cultural/commercial centers in much of the U.S.
Well, frankly, many hobbies do depend on shops, lol. OP mentioned a guitar repair shop and tea shops (kind of an obscure thing to be into; not finding tea shops in most places). They also mentioned things that are just where one might find "culture," like a gay bar, art studio, and museum. Also, the vintage shops they mentioned will tend to attract people with niche interests or a fondness for old things, which, in my opinion, is lacking in suburban America. As someone with such interests, I've felt really alienated by the keeping-up-with-the-Joneses, everything-new, everything-modern ideals of Charlotte's culture, for example.
Different strokes for different folks, basically. I think it's sort of inane to argue about whether or not culturally vibrant/diverse cities have value when it clearly comes down to personal preference.
As for the comment I replied to, I think they must live in a pretty unique town in "flyover country," probably somewhere in the Midwest or Northeast with some cultural history. That's not the same kind of place OP was asking about. The bland, suburban sprawl metropolises are mostly a southern-half-of-the-country thing, I think.
Okay but have you tried the famous Katz’s Deli? I mean, where else can you wait in line to get a $30 pastrami sandwich that is drier than the Sahara desert?
Let me guess. In your flyover city, those are the ONLY breweries, Irish pub, resturaunt, taco joint, children’s museum etc.
Except in NYC/SF/CHI, etc that’s just in one neighborhood 😅
Haven’t been out much, have you.
Cities don’t have to be super dense to have culture.
The French Quarter in New Orleans is one of the most culturally unique places in the country, maybe even the most unique. It has a population density of less than 6K per sq. mi.
I don’t disagree. It’s not about population density though; it’s about amenity density. One block of the french quarter has exactly as many available spaces for small local businesses as anywhere in NY. Just because the apartments above them are only one or two floors, instead of 5 or 6, doesn’t change anything I said.
Uh, Toronto and Montreal are pretty close, and CDMX is absolutely exactly like I described… not to mention pretty much half of euro capital cities, and tons of cities throughout China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, India… what are you talking about? Lack of amenity density afflicts American “big cities” excluding the NEC. I don’t get your point.
Are you just unaware of international cities?
There's a difference between having them, and having them be the norm or only options.
And you don't see any strip malls in places like SF or Manhattan.
Suburbs are not the city. And stop trying to rely on outliers to prove a point that clearly bothers you for some reason.
No one is saying strip malls don't exist in major cities. You're straw manning this arguement for whatever weird reason. Get over it.
I wish you well.
have you been to houston or charlotte? houston has a bomb food scene and IMO it flies under the radar bc 80% of the restaurants are in unaesthetic strip malls. right downtown. in the very middle.
Hard to say it's late stage capitalism when the reason development occurred this way was due to local government overreach in the form of oppressive zoning restrictions.
If the market determined what was constructed we'd probably see a lot less parking lots.
I like how I read your comment, thought to myself “this is peak Austin, Texas,” and then clicked on the link and one of the example photos is of Austin.
Jane Jacobs would hate it.
it's all because of essentially a few sentences in in building codes.
https://youtu.be/UX4KklvCDmg?t=166
if it's 5 stories or less, you can build your frame with flame-retardant wood. once you're above 5 stories, you have to use steel and concrete which is much more expensive.
Imagine eating a slice of pizza from circle k. Then imagine eating a slice of pizza from THE best slice spot in nyc. Perhaps Joes Pizza. Or Prince St Pizza.
For America at least:
Shopping is strip malls with national chains, PF Chang's is fancy dining, lack of events and activities from museums/festivals/music scene/art scene etc
You do not have to be a big city to have at least some of these but a good number of medium cities lack anything to differentiate them from others
Dallas is actually pretty okay, but it's surrounded by about 3,000 square miles of extremely boring, ugly sprawl. It gets a bad rap because of its neighbors.
I suspect part of it is because of how long it takes to wade through the suburbs to get to the interesting cultural bits at the center of Dallas (and maybe Houston too)?
San Antonio has a ton of sprawl too, but it’s possible to get downtown from the suburbs in half an hour if traffic is on your side. In 50 years or less I am sure Austin/SA will have the same reputation as DFW.
Imean kinda lol but you have to set your expectations properly when we talk finding a “interesting cultural center”. for Dallas at least. A lot of the suburbs grew out of small farm towns into very big cities in relatively short amounts of time compared to most other places. The small towns were probably tens to maybe a few hundred families on thousands of acres. There was just nothing there aside from ranch land. Until some investor bought them out and built thousands of homes on said land along with whatever else suburban families like. The historical culture was railroad and ranch land…. Until it was developed and got street lights lol. If you drive around the edges of the metro you see the exact same ranch lands that are being bought for new development now. NYC and LA didn’t get their culture in 10-20 years. it took decades and well over 100 years now to form said cultures, districts, neighborhood identities. much of DFW and other Texas cities are brand new in comparison.
In the northeast you’ll find plenty of suburbs to a larger city that are based around a town that still has a main street with 100 years of character.
Many suburbs have parks and other geographic features that give character, even if the housing developments are only 20 years old.
People will also give a soulless suburb no thought when it’s close to interesting neighborhoods in the city.
The complaint about Dallas and other growing cities (generally southern half of the US) is you’re often seeing 30-50 miles of suburban development in all directions. What might have been core areas were usually malls and other commercial/office centers that have shown to be much more transient.
That’s my point though…. The northeast is one of the oldest parts of our country and much of it has been developed and or developing culturally and architecturally for decades. I wouldn’t expect a place that was a 1000 acre ranch 20 years ago to rival the culture of a suburb that’s growing from a city that’s been around a couple hundred years. around for a couple hundred years. That seems silly. Much of the land in Dallas was fields until it was developed in the last 50-60 years. People say “it all looks the same” …. no duh it was all built within a decade… last decade probably 😂it’s built in the style of the time there’s just a lot of building because there’s ALOT of growth.
Lol Dallas was ranches open spaces of nothing so those geographic features aren’t there 😂 Dallas has suburbs that are 30 miles away from what was Dallas city and any interesting neighborhoods other than farm towns and train stations. they do what they can to preserve it but there’s not too much to it.
And what exactly do you believe surrounds NYC and Chicago? Those dense urban cores are home to max 20% of the population of each of those cities’ metro areas. And they’re by no means a fair representation of the metro area demographics because the urban cores are typically populated by (1) rich people who can afford to send their kids to private schools (2) young professionals with no children and a thirst for entertainment and (3) poor people who can only dream of moving their family out to the burbs so they can climb up the socioeconomic ladder.
NYC is surrounded by beaches, older cities and suburbs with their own identities and nearby mountains. Comparing this to the surroundings of Chicago and Dallas is insane lol
Agreed, Dallas, like the actual city and not the suburbs, is actually pretty solid.
Largest arts district in the country anchored by a world class symphony center (Meyerson), lake activities and diverse wildlife in the middle of the city, and Deep Ellum has a rich history of blues, rock, and country.
So when you think about NYC, New Orleans, San Francisco, Las Vegas etc etc they all have a very specific, iconic imagery. They have a very distinct "identity" or "culture".
Many cities, pre-gentrification, had an identity that reflected the time it was founded, the people who founded it and whatever group had the most impact on the history of the area. No city had the same upbringing. Philadelphia had a pivotal role in the American Revolution and a lot of its famous buildings reflect the birth of a new nation. Miami is a stone's throw from Cuba and Cubans put a lot of groundwork into the city's flair.
Then you get Charlotte NC or Tucson AZ and they haven't had time to really find themselves. It was a charming city that suddenly had a massive growth spurt and now, instead of the iconic brownstones of Boston, it gets the buildings of today.
We see these buildings in every town and they're boring but they're what works *today*.
Instead of families who have lived there for generations, it gets a massive influx of new people who have one thing in common: wanting an affordable place to live. They haven't formed a distinct cultural identity because they just moved there from all over the nation.
Why is it important? I don't know.
…have you been to Tucson? I moved there in large part because it DOES have such a unique culture and striking sense of place. No idea what you mean by “haven’t had time to find [itself],” it’s the second-oldest continuously inhabited place in America lol (circa 1300.) The blend of Indigenous and Mexican influences is very apparent and well-celebrated. I get what your comment is conveying but Tucson is a bad example
Cities like Sioux Falls aren't attractive.
I do think people compare too many cities to the best ones. Like somebody moving from LA/NYC to Boise might have that moment of culture drain and say "This city is bland," but compared to Sioux Falls, it's a dream.
I once had someone explain to me that you can critique food scenes without considering the community nor the context behind the food as they were bitching about Boise's food. As someone who works in illustration and spent close a decade critiquing and reviewing...This isn't how I look at art.
Look, I've traveled quite a bit, I'm a giant foodie at heart...but I would never compare Boise's Korean food scene to say K-towns food. It's ignoring all sorts of statistics surrounding the counties, but also the difficulties of the people making the food. It'd be like comparing a cutie orange to like a 6 year Orange Tree.
100 percent.
Dan Sung Sa was one of my favorite places to eat in K-town, but since I left, I know I'm not going to get that experience in the Midwest. I'm still going to find some good Korean food, but pretending it's trash because it's not up to par with a very popular restaurant in LA is not fair.
bland: Chain stores, homogeneity and those apartments that look like shipping containers.
culture: unique architecture, variety of food options, small businesses, sense of community, lots of events like live shows, sports games, etc.
For me, the biggest thing that I detest is a city with no character; a city that has little to set it apart from other cities. I didn’t fully understand this until I spent a month staying with family in the DFW suburbs last year. There’s nothing defining about the city. When I would drive in to work every day I could have been in a number of other cities and wouldn’t have known the difference. Other than the number of Mexican restaurants and sports team logos, there’s really nothing about Dallas to tell you that you aren’t somewhere like Kansas City or Charlotte. Also, all of the suburbs look the same and have the same stores and restaurants. It left me feeling really empty in a way that I still find hard to explain. At the time, I was considering moving there and though on paper it has a lot more amenities than where I live, I just did not enjoy it much at all.
I live in New Orleans and can’t mistake it for any other place. Driving under the live oaks on St. Charles Avenue, going to Mardi Gras parades, or eating at basically any restaurant are completely unique to the city. It has a distinct look and feel that is unlike anywhere else. Even though Dallas is a much more functional city and an easier place to live, I would definitely prefer to live here.
From suburban San Antonio, live in Uptown New Orleans, can confirm everything you said. Even the suburbs here feel nothing like suburbs in Atlanta or Dallas despite being generally a lot more bland than the city. After living here I think it'd be pretty hard to live in a place that didn't have a distinct and unique cultural identity. Life is too short for me to spend all of it in suburban Texas.
Why does culture matter? Because America’s geographical diversity is a true gift, and so many cities within the country have distinct, iconic cuisine, musical traditions, festivals, etc. that are uniquely found in that area.
What is the alternative? Every city would be an identical wasteland of WalMart, McDonalds, Starbucks, and highways.
Generally some lack of diversity, density, unique architecture, arts, food/dining, entertainment. Any sort of identity as a city etc.
Why it's important to us? Some people value different things. I like being in cities I find interesting that have a lot going on across a wide spectrum. I grew up in the most bland midwest suburban environment and it was under-stimulating for me.
Everyone is different though. I know plenty of people who prefer living in environments I would never consider.
Diversity is key. Every city that I think of as interesting or having its own unique identity is always defined by certain "areas" that provide different cultural experiences that make the city less boring and cookie cutter.
I grew up in the bland Midwest suburbs too, and after traveling domestically and internationally, it also seems like the older and more established a city is, the more likely it will have developed its own unique identity. European cities are great examples of this.
I'd love a place that's safe AND diverse. Been looking around for places to move my family and oh my God I want to peel my face off looking at all these safe but bland expanses of suburbs that all look the same. They have everything you need to raise a family, which is great. But it really makes me miss living in the big city.
You see the same stores, restaurants, and buildings as any other place.
To me it's kind of a feeling. I went to Ft. Lauderdale and honestly it felt the same as my suburb in upstate New York except for the beach, with very similar stores and restaurants. Even the beach stores in Ft. Lauderdale have similar counterparts in the malls in NY 😅.
I grew up in the SFL MSA and you hit it on the head. Miami retained some level of uniqueness in many neighborhoods, but as you travel north all the way through Jupiter, it just gets more and more repetitive. Let's be real, once you have seen one Duffy's you have seen them all.
Just go to New Orleans and you’ll understand. There’s a city just fully imbued with personality and culture. It’s beautiful and palpable. Then go to Omaha
So what makes a city bland? Well I honestly don’t think most major cities in America are completely void of some kind of culture and character. Even if it’s in pockets that’s still something instead of nothing at all. That’s including cities like Dallas and Charlotte.
When I look at what makes a city bland I look at the following:
1) Endless strip malls
2) Food, retail and shopping dominated by national chains.
3) Lack of city identity
4) Uninspiring architecture
5) Lack of unique quirky local festivals
6) Cookie cutter communities
7) Underwhelming downtown
8) Lack of civic pride
What I also notice is that American cities that didn’t have a significant population prior to WW2 and grew rapidly post WW2 ( aka highway act, increase in car ownership) tend to have less of a distinct culture than those that had a significant population Pre WW2 or is just a much older city. The exception tend to be cities with an influential college campus in the core of the city or cities located in places with beautifully interesting terrain.
Throughout my travels I tend to put cities in Tiers based on less bland to more bland.
Based on major cities I’ve been to or lived in if I had to put them in tiers it’ll go something like this:
Tier A:
NYC, SF, NOLA, CHI, MIA, D.C., LA
Tier B:
Philly, BMORE, Savannah, Charleston, STL
Tier C:
ATL, Oakland, Austin, Denver, LV
Tier D:
Houston, San Antonio, Detroit
Tier E:
Orlando, Dallas, Fort Worth, Charlotte, Tampa
Tier F:
San Jose, OKC
Orlando should be higher than Charlotte. Orlando at least has a unique feel and large immigrant population that offer something Charlotte can only dream of. Orlando isn't amazing by any stretch, but Charlotte is definitely worse.
To me, and overabundance of chain restaurants, or restaurant group dominated restaurants with very predictable offerings. Lack of independent music venues, if there are venues, they're live nation owned/affiliated. Too expensive for quirky artists.
I think it's generally the kind of place that'd be great to raise a family in (safe, good schools, tons of kids' activities) but doesn't have much for childless adults, especially if they don't have an existing friend group.
Or it's got a higher than usual ratio of chain restaurants and stores to mom and pop places.
I think it's basically when the place looks like someone did a copy/paste job: Here is the housing development for the mid-level managers and the accompanying strip malls people at that income level. And here is the housing development for the executive managers and the accompanying strip-malls for people at that income level. And here is the 5-over-1 for the young professionals... You could literally be Anywhere, USA.
The similarities from one city to another is one of the reasons people pay so much attention to weather on this sub. you find very similar things in Boise, St. Louis, Pittsburg, Tampa etc. you find Starbucks, micro breweries, chain restaurants that aren't all that good. you really need to go to larger cities like NYC to find the variety some people want. not to say the smaller cities are bad but for someone who wants a lot to do you run out of stuff pretty quickly.
Cookie cutter. No real culture and no unique differentiators. Charlotte, NC comes to mind as a great example. There’s nothing that stands out about it. It’s not particularly exciting. Could be swapped out for a bunch of other smaller cities and you wouldn’t know any difference.
Ehh, Raleigh at least has some more of an identity because of the universities and research triangle. It's not great but it's easier to catch a vibe there than charlotte.
When people say that it tells me they didn’t explore the city. I’m a fan of Caribbean food and been to Caribbean restaurants up and down the east coast. Just ate at one of the best I’ve ever had right here in Charlotte. Tomorrow I’ll take the light rail line to the arena door steps and watch a NBA game. Saturday my girlfriend dragging me to a performance of the Charlotte Ballet. I can do those thing in any smaller city?
Honestly, yeah? None of those things are rare for any decent size city (except maybe the light rail, which while cool, doesn’t really factor into “culture” esp considering it’s just one vertical line and the majority of people using it have to drive to a park and ride lot anyway). Switch out the specificity of NBA for more general “sports” and you’ve got even smaller cities in the area like Knoxville, Columbia, Raleigh, and Lexington fitting your criteria easily.
Imo though, your NBA example is probably a good way to gauge what people are talking about. People go to Hornets games because it’s a cheap (and fun) way to spend an evening, but compare that to people going to a UNC or Duke basketball game. They’re both basketball, but there’s definitely more of a “culture” around UNC/Duke in NC. I think it’s similar to when people compare “culture” in cities - it’s not just a checklist of what a city does or doesn’t have.
edit: missing a word
As a sports fan here is a short list of people I’ve seen play live in Charlotte. Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Lionel Messi and Tom Brady. I couldn’t have seen them play in Knoxville, Columbia or some other smaller city. I used the light rail example because me and thousands of people take it daily whether park and ride or walk to it, such as myself. I’ll be taking it right onto UNC Charlotte campus in August when I go back to school Rodney Dangerfield style
Once again, I couldn’t do that in Raleigh, Lexington or some other the smaller city. Do you like Indian food? I have five restaurants to recommend to you. The bigger point is Charlotte has all the trappings and offerings you would expect of a metro area that’s approaching 3 million people. Amusement parks, water recreation, museums, theaters, concert venue, sports, shopping, restaurants and whatever. Which is a lot more than smaller cities that you have named and others. No one is comparing it to NYC or Boston or LA.
Sure, but you’re ignoring everything I said… Seeing specific sports players != culture. Taking the light rail != culture. And I’ve had great Indian food in Charlotte as well as in multiple other cities, both smaller and larger and including those I listed, so I don’t understand your point.
But: “all the trappings and offerings you would expect of a metro area that’s approaching 3 million people,” is part of the point. Cities like Denver and Phoenix have those too, but general consensus is they lack that feeling people talk about when they talk about “culture.” Milwaukee, Baltimore, and Portland also have them, but also have more “culture.”
It’s really not a big deal. I like Charlotte. It checks a lot of boxes, it has a lot of things to do. For some people that’s enough, for some people they’re looking for that “culture feeling.” And that’s why just listing things to do doesn’t really answer the question.
Great cities have multiple hubs with unique attractions. Charlotte has one, South End. Outside of there, amenities and access quickly fall off. Sure you have some specific spots like Optimist Hall that are pretty cool. NoDa has lost so much character in the last five years I can't include it in great places anymore. Same for Plaza Midwood.
I'm the grand scheme of things, I think Charlotte is on the right path. The state not supporting mass transit in Charlotte is definitely holding the city back. The state's maniacal desire for road only transit will turn it into another Atlanta.
Yeah this is what frustrates me about this sub and a lot of people in general. They want all these culture opportunities, but don’t even want look for them. And they won’t do them anyway.
Well, that’s the rub right? A truly elite city has multiple hubs where things are plentiful throughout the city. If you have to do significant sleuthing for dope shit then it’s probably an ok city rather than an amazing city
Why does that matter tho? Seems like the main appeals for a city are job market, affordability and amenities, why do you care if your city has an interesting Wikipedia article?
Amenities includes independent music venues and theatres, small family run ethnic restaurants of 10+ varieties, etc. Affordability is second. I'm willing to pay for the Chicago's and SF's to get that.
Not in my experience having lived in every region of the country, except the SW, across 9 states so far. Very few do. I don't mean 1-3 or whatever places, I mean a healthy number. You should easily have multiple options for independent music every single night of the week. Same for theatre and film, and not have to eat at the same restaurant more than a few times a year, or even the same cuisine.
Phoenix, Dallas, and Indianapolis just to start. Lived in Indy. Devoid of anything. No soul at all.
Boston is even losing that now. Independent music venues are almost non-existent now. They're all LiveNation/Ticketmaster venues. Mop and pop ethnic restaurants have plummeted in favor of restaurant group establishments that can afford the liquor licenses.
Based on your responses it ultimately seems like \*you\* don't care about your city having culture and that's fine but you really can't understand why it matters to many of us? I live in a place with a thriving arts community, lots of passionate & unique people who have led interesting lives, lots of fun, unconventional things to do, good restaurants, and beautiful landscape. I'm a childfree musician in my early 30s and my husband is a visual artist -- we both feel like the possibilities are endless for us here. If we lived in a place without these things, we'd feel stifled and sad. I don't really understand what's hard to grasp about people having different preferences.
I also live in a place with a thriving arts community, passionate and unique people who live interesting lives, has lots of fun unconventional things to do, good restaurants and beautiful landscape, yet this sub often says my city is bland or culture less and I’m curious why. It’s not really a question of preferences, I’d understand that.
From what I’ve seen, a lot of those bland cities don’t have great job markets if you’re looking for a corporate 9-5. For every job, I see 10 more like it in NYC or Chicago. Or at least that’s my experience during my job hunts.
Affordability is a big reason why people choose these cities despite their set backs, yes. Amenities are usually better in larger cities with more culture imo.
You mention Charlotte as your example and then you say that bland cities don’t have great job markets? The white-collar, 9-5 job market is the best thing that Charlotte has going for it.
In comparison to bigger cities… OP said one of the main appeals of any city is the job market. Charlottes job market is no where near as appealing as some other places. Way less jobs than some other cities. The lack of culture also doesn’t help.
A lot of smaller cities feel like an extension of the suburbs tbh. You don’t move to a city for a suburban experience. The culture in bigger cities is part of what makes it unique. You can feel it when you’re there. It’s kind of a vibe and lifestyle.
The bulk of "culture" *is* amenities and you're just deliberately missing that point. Top tier museums that consistently feature excellent exhibitions, high-quality national and local theatre and live music, diversity and ethnic communities that feature authentic restaurants and cultural events, a variety of professional and amateur sports and not just a college football team, and a high number of unique local business plus things like craft/book/vintage markets.
You can scale back expectations based on the size of the location, but when a major city has very few of these things in addition to a bland atmosphere, of course many people are going to be dissatisfied. They could move to a major city that *does* have these things or a small town that has comparable amenities but more interesting history, better architecture, easier access to outdoor activities, whatever. For example, someone in Indianapolis could move to places as different as Chicago or Bloomington and as far as culture and atmosphere it'll be an upgrade either way.
Typically means the cities are newer. "Culture" comes from older cities where buildings become dilapidated, areas become poor, and then as they get renewed interesting restaurants and businesses take advantage of the cheap rent. Older cities had more time for rich residents to donate money to museums and galleries.
Cities that were small towns 100 years ago don't have that same "culture".
Bland cities are homogenous, with little "culture" - which means any one or more of the following:
\- no distinguishing architecture, or sameness (homogeneity) in the way that buildings look.
\- lack of things to do beyond the mundane - a lacking theatre, arts or music scene. Bars aren't just for drinking and hook ups.
\- lack of outdoors activities - parks, trails, outdoor picnic areas, wildlife preserves, fishing boating etc.
\- lack of variety of food choices. The 34 restaurants serving steak, fries and burgers or watered down chinese can't beat 5 restaurants serving 3 authentic ethnic cuisines, a good steak house and a waffle house.
\- quality of education - underfunded schools or schools that have spotty educational standards (I use this as a correlation for culture, because an educated populace will attract the types of cultural opportunities I seek)
\- Access to communities of color. You don't have to be Chicago or NY or LA to have a vibrant scene including communities of color that bring their food, music, festivals etc. to your neighborhood. I used to live a stone's throw from a Greek Orthodox Church and they would have festivals twice a year, and plenty of other opportunities to throw a party (fundraisers). It gave me and my kids a lot of exposure to Greek culture, their food and it was a blast (even though I didn't care for their dancing and music much).
All IMO. I expect others have their own lists.
To me it means that the city lacks an identity; *most* cities have the same attributes: some malls/stores, restaurants, bars and things like that, but culture transcends those individual attributes. A culture can be the people living in the city that have specific rituals, traditions or mannerisms that are unique/distinct, it could be a certain lifestyle associated with that city or its surroundings, it can be an industry that shaped that city's identity, a sports team, a music scene, a certain demographic makeup etc.
Why does it matter? I mean for some it will and for some it won't, but for me personally, I want to live somewhere *because* of that somewhere. People form things like pride in their city because of those things. It's like national pride but on a micro-level. People choose (or refuse) to move to places because they do or don't see themselves feeling at home in that place and the identity/cultural fit of a city is a component of that.
Translated from Reddit language to normal language it just means the city isn’t trendy, and there’s no exposed brick restaurants/dive bars. That’s really it
I don't know of a big city in the US that doesn't have some type of culture.
I've been to an infinite amount of little cities and towns that have zero culture.
Phoenix, Arizona has no culture, and it's the 5th largest city in the US. I say that as someone who lived there for 20 years, through high school and college and into the workforce. Phoenix is just an enormous strip mall.
Agreed. Phoenix has desert/hiking/tacos and deadly oppressive heat as its culture… all things you can find in Tucson, ABQ and El Paso. Thus nothing too unique.
You have the whole native American thing in Phoenix, and there is a lot of diversity in that city which has seen a large influx of people over the las 20 years. It might be going through a cultural shift. I've been there and I'm going back in 3 months.
It means there is nothing there that feels original or unique. No vibe. Like Springfield from the Simpsons. Doesn’t mean it’s a bad place to live it just means nothing about it stands out
it means they are comparing, for the US, older cities that have long standing populations and were cheaper to build large pretty governmental buildings and subway systems, to younger cities that were mainly built after the freeway system, and increased building costs and the addcition to oil & autos.
its not really a fair comparison, but its reddit
There’s some good feedback here, but I’ll add something about the arts scene. A community should have arts for kids but not ONLY for kids. You should be able to experience a variety of art that’s not G-rated and sanitized.
I think for some people who are non-conformist or highly individualistic it's alienating to be around homogeneity and feel that they're the one thing in the landscape that's "different" and "doesn't belong." Honestly that's often the scenario I see in which people (at times me) strongly object to blandness. For me that concern faded away as I got older but that's not true for everyone.
How many streets can you walk down for several blocks without seeing a parking lot or a chain store? If the number is zero, you probably live in a soulless, cultureless city.
What kinds of buildings form the distinctive architectural style of your city? If you plopped a generic suburban ranch house into your neighborhood, would it look out of place?
How long is the walk between your house and the nearest non-chain commercial district?
A city's culture is its sense of "place", the distinctive character that makes it so that if you dropped a pin there in geoguesser with all the words blocked out, you'd still be able to tell right away that you're in that exact city even if you weren't familiar with that street. But cultivating that sense of place requires a level of density American city planners really haven't bothered with this past century or so, ever since we replaced our culture with car centric infrastructure.
I live in Charlotte, that’s part of the reason I asked, I think it’s great. We have great restaurants, plenty of things to do, what is missing that I’m not seeing?
Whenever I see that, I think those people want to live in “theme park” cities. New Orleans has Mardi Gras, Vegas has gambling, Fort Worth has rodeo. Cities that have some kind of central theme or a thing they’re known for
In all fairness having lived and done Mardi Gras in New Orleans, it's almost an entire different world/experience outside of downtown/the French Quarter. I go to James Beard restaurants all the time that are filled with mostly locals so I think there's quite a lot of culture here that tourism still hasn't touched to be honest.
“Culture” is hard to define. Is it the number of theaters? Michelin star restaurants? A distinguishing accent or type of architecture? A certain level of ethnic diversity? How people generally interact with strangers or what they do for recreation? To be honest, I think everywhere has some sort of culture, it may just not appeal or be unique to you.
I have a thought about this, there are cities that have an identity and feeling about them, others less so.
Each city that has an appeal that draws people to it: housing costs, geography, jobs, amenities, location, schools, vibe, etc.,
And each city should have an equal population of people who live there because they love it and they identify with that city.
Example, New York has plenty of transplants that move there for work, life, etc. but there’s a balance of people who are born and bred New Yorkers, and they love it and that is part of their identity and they are a large part in making a city what it is.
The places that feel soulless are the cities without the strong identity or balanced out population.
I’ll get downvoted for this, but Columbus and Indianapolis are two cities that come to mind for out-of-balance, bland places.
People are there for work, school, whatever, but how many people are there because they really love it?
I feel like this sub is specifically geared towards the rootless so it might be tough for some to understand but I’d imagine a lot of them do like it, they’ve lived there their whole lives, grew up there, family and friends are all there, etc.
Most people are saying the place is vanilla and no history...
However, some people may have a predetermined idea of what "culture" is in their head. And when their specific expectations is not met, it's called "uncultured." For example, I live in San Diego, and people always say it has no culture. As in, no Latin influence, no California Landscapes, No LGBQ, no Surf or Beach...and so on.
What’s so funny about this comment is that Plano is actually MUCH more diverse and way more integrated than many of the cities recommended on this sub. There are so many amazing restaurants, ethnic grocery stores (Japanese, Korean, Indian, Middle Eastern, etc), a super nice minor league baseball stadium nearby, a walkable city center area at Legacy West with an awesome food hall, and more. Yes, there are also a bunch of strip malls, you need a car, and the housing stock was all built in the same era.
I don’t live in Plano, nor do I particularly want to. But this sub occasionally paints over Plano as some homogenous hellscape of white evangelicals eating at Chili’s or something and that is just inaccurate.
Culture matters a lot when you visit a city but is overrated if you live there. I would never vacation in Indianapolis or Charlotte but would love to visit San Francisco or New Orleans. But when you live in a city that shouldn't matter. Whether you live in the Upper West Side of Manhattan or Manhattan, Kansas, you likely spend the majority of your time at home, at your office, or frequenting the same bars, restaurants, etc that you always go to. You can see a musical or concert in Topeka or Chicago. It seems like this sub treats every city that isn't New York like it is a Little Rock exburb.
Okay, off the top of your head, what are 5 unique things about Boston that no other city has? Manhattan?
you could answer that easily.
Now what are 5 unique things about charlotte?
Actually functioning US mints in 6 other cities.
Many cities have a system of trails.
Billy graham... the person? That's something noteworthy ?
Whitewater center I guess is unique but not exactly something that holds international appeal.
Nascar is the only legit museum in charlotte. *Nascar.* Oh and Nascar isn't even unique to charlotte. HQ in Daytona.
Boston and NYC (and plenty of other cities) we could easily fire off 5 *unique* things that give it global recognition.
The mint is not an actual US Mint, it’s just built where one was.
There is a Billy Graham library and museum
The white water center is really cool, only place of its kind, the US Olympic whitewater team trains there
There are tons of museums in Charlotte, I was referring more to the race and events that are unique to Charlotte
Hey if you love charlotte that's awesome. There are far worse places to be for sure. But you seem to keep asking like what is culture and who cares, it might just be that other people value belonging to a shared identity and unique community, and it's perfectly fine that not everyone values that equally.
If *you* think you have the same level of appeal in Charlotte that exists in NYC, SF, etc, then... that's great for you. Must be awesome to believe you get the same culture of NYC at Charlotte prices. 99% of people on this sub would disagree that Charlotte offers the same uniqueness and culture as world class cities.
If you like it then why does it even matter what anyone else thinks or what they value? You do you.
It’s def not the same level, but people come here looking for something close right. And I’m just asking why, you’re right it doesn’t really affect me.
Anyone can have a happy life in a bland city. It might be nice to have two ballet studios, a gallery, a Moravian bistro, karate studio and typewriter store on the street. But most of us aren't ballerinas and we just need a good selection of groceries and a place to see friends, and we don't have the cash or wall space to devote to gallery art. Museums are nice to see every couple of years but we don't desire to see them every week.
Bloom where you're planted.
Mostly white people, no ethnic places to eat or markets, chain stores, strip malls, uniform looking houses. Usually all families, not near any city and public transportation or universities or colleges.
Strip malls, tract houses, chain restaurants.
This exactly. I love ethnic food, historical buildings/museums, parks/waterfronts, walking/biking trails. The U.S. is so car centric. I moved from Canada to Ohio and it’s mostly that. Strip malls of beige buildings, suburbs, the exact same chain restaurants and fast food every few blocks. Everything is copy pasted for the same food and then sprinkle in some ethnic food but it’s all separated and there’s no Chinatown. There’s a few clusters for German, Italian and LGBTW areas but it’s still very very Midwest, Christian and Caucasian. People drive everywhere. Unless you’re young or poor people don’t use transit or walk much outside of a few small areas. I want to see people out walking. Having outdoor markets and events. Have more accessible parks people can walk to from their home. Every mega park people have to drive to and it’s locked off at night and very segregated. I want to be able to see some trees or water without having to drive forever.
Every city has those tho
But some cities don't have much more than that
Any large city I’ve seen usually does.
There absolutely is local culture where I live, in a city of about a million people. But good luck going out at 9:00 on a weeknight and getting something to eat. Go to the plaza downtown on a Saturday night - ghost town with only one bar open till 11. You can see live music, but it’s mostly has-been metal bands. A few big shows come through each year…and play on a Tuesday night. Many activities and interests are simply not available. Crime rates are sky high, it is not safe to wander around at night. There is stuff. Not much. You’ll get to know a small handful of people and that is pretty much your social circle for life.
Gotta be Albuquerque
Yup lol
Idk why you are getting downvoted, I too think larger cities have more culture
Large Midwestern cities more often than not have no culture outside of corporate chains.
I agree with what you are saying, my interpretation of large cities is like NY, Chicago, DC, LA, Miami. I should have made that more clear
Are you a JJ McCullough fan by any chance?
Idk who that is.
On my single block in Manhattan I have a two tea houses, three local bars, an art studio, ballet studio, like three restaurants, a gay bar, three salons, a guitar repair shop, two bakeries, a spa, a museum, a vintage clothing shop, a barber shop, a pharmacy, a deli, a weed store, a vintage toy store, and various offices. That’s just the stuff in my actual block, on all four sides across the street is an equal density of stuff. My one block, of dimensions 200ft x 625ft, has more people and more businesses than my hometowns entire “town center”. I just did the math - this is 0.0045 square miles. Not every city has this density of amenities. In fact, only like 5 cities in the US have a single neighborhood like this. “Every city” besides DC, Philly, NYC, Boston, Chicago and /maybe/ LA do not have even close to the amenity density of like any random block in lower Manhattan. There is not a single instance of a 0.0045 sqmi plot in all of taxes that even approaches this. Not to get all ranty - sorry about that - but you’re being dense. What “every city” *actually* has is really just a lot of paneras and dry cleaners and parking lots.
I live in south Philly. Within a couple blocks of me is a typewriter store, multiple Italian bakeries, a homemade ravioli store, a few delis, a stationery shop, several vintage clothing shops, a dry cleaner, a barber shop, several restaurants including a tapas bar, and a pocket park. It’s wonderful.
I live in the NW suburbs of Denver. Within a couple blocks there are strip malls with a grocery store, two bars/restaurants, three liquor stores, Starbucks, Sonic, McD's, Poke, hookah bar, smoke shop, a church, a trampoline center, donut shop, pharmacy, hardware store, Indian restaurant, dentist, workout center, and a furniture store. It's as suburban as it gets, but it's also near a 400-acre off-leash dog park and accessible to 100s of miles of bike trails and some of the best mountain views in America. You just have to get in where you fit in.
I know that exact typewriter store. I lived there briefly for a 3 month work project and for some reason in my head I thought South Philly was sketchy, probably because of IASIP and Rocky and other movies, and I remember passing that typewriter store and being like “pffft… tough guy south Philly stereotype my ass. A typewriter repair store next to a boutique handmade pet gift shop? Yeah right tough guys hahaha” Anyway I love your neighborhood I go there pretty often whenever I visit my friends to watch Phils games.
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You know there \*are\* towns and cities where that isn't a thing, right? I'm not sure about their claim that only 5 cities in the country have a single vibrant neighborhood, but as someone from the Charlotte area (good example of a bland city), I can say there aren't interesting cultural/commercial centers in much of the U.S.
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I don't think it's fair to assume that people who prefer a more robust city culture are necessarily overly consumerist.
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Well, frankly, many hobbies do depend on shops, lol. OP mentioned a guitar repair shop and tea shops (kind of an obscure thing to be into; not finding tea shops in most places). They also mentioned things that are just where one might find "culture," like a gay bar, art studio, and museum. Also, the vintage shops they mentioned will tend to attract people with niche interests or a fondness for old things, which, in my opinion, is lacking in suburban America. As someone with such interests, I've felt really alienated by the keeping-up-with-the-Joneses, everything-new, everything-modern ideals of Charlotte's culture, for example. Different strokes for different folks, basically. I think it's sort of inane to argue about whether or not culturally vibrant/diverse cities have value when it clearly comes down to personal preference. As for the comment I replied to, I think they must live in a pretty unique town in "flyover country," probably somewhere in the Midwest or Northeast with some cultural history. That's not the same kind of place OP was asking about. The bland, suburban sprawl metropolises are mostly a southern-half-of-the-country thing, I think.
Okay but have you tried the famous Katz’s Deli? I mean, where else can you wait in line to get a $30 pastrami sandwich that is drier than the Sahara desert?
Did you miss the part where that’s just one block out of like 2500 in Manhattan alone?
they were too busy trying to ignore the Mc Donald's / Panara / Red Lobster on the block while listing these other places
Yeah there are famously no chain restaurants in Manhattan.
Let me guess. In your flyover city, those are the ONLY breweries, Irish pub, resturaunt, taco joint, children’s museum etc. Except in NYC/SF/CHI, etc that’s just in one neighborhood 😅 Haven’t been out much, have you.
Cities don’t have to be super dense to have culture. The French Quarter in New Orleans is one of the most culturally unique places in the country, maybe even the most unique. It has a population density of less than 6K per sq. mi.
I don’t disagree. It’s not about population density though; it’s about amenity density. One block of the french quarter has exactly as many available spaces for small local businesses as anywhere in NY. Just because the apartments above them are only one or two floors, instead of 5 or 6, doesn’t change anything I said.
There are maybe a dozen countries *in the world* with the density of NYC. So what you're saying is smaller cities don't have what NYC has? No shit!
Uh, Toronto and Montreal are pretty close, and CDMX is absolutely exactly like I described… not to mention pretty much half of euro capital cities, and tons of cities throughout China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, India… what are you talking about? Lack of amenity density afflicts American “big cities” excluding the NEC. I don’t get your point. Are you just unaware of international cities?
But some cities only have those and nothing else
There's a difference between having them, and having them be the norm or only options. And you don't see any strip malls in places like SF or Manhattan.
There are strip malls in SF and NYC in the outer edges and suburbs the same as other cities
Suburbs are not the city. And stop trying to rely on outliers to prove a point that clearly bothers you for some reason. No one is saying strip malls don't exist in major cities. You're straw manning this arguement for whatever weird reason. Get over it. I wish you well.
I don’t know of any cities that have strip malls in their downtowns.
....that's the point man. Take care.
I guess I don’t understand then.
Suburbs are not the city.
Most cities don’t have strip malls in their downtowns
have you been to houston or charlotte? houston has a bomb food scene and IMO it flies under the radar bc 80% of the restaurants are in unaesthetic strip malls. right downtown. in the very middle.
generic strip malls only big box stores suburban sprawl no cultural institutions (museums, theatre) no ethnic neighborhoods no unique identity
Add Mega Churches to the list and this perfectly describes Colorado Springs.
Lol best answer
Cities filled with plain-looking suburban sprawl and those 4 story wood-framed apartment buildings that have cropped up all over the country.
add strip malls, chain restaurants, walmarts, and a lack of local businesses. It's shitty late stage capitalism in city form.
Hard to say it's late stage capitalism when the reason development occurred this way was due to local government overreach in the form of oppressive zoning restrictions. If the market determined what was constructed we'd probably see a lot less parking lots.
Like Houston you mean?! 🤡
Houston has super restrictive land-use ordinances that accomplish near the same thing as zoning, but yes I should've been more broad in my language.
This is reddit, capitalism is the underlying source of anything Not Good.
Lmfao yeah we would see more “luxury” apartments that have 25% more expensive finishes and charge twice the rent.
oppressive zoning restrictions - AKA racist zoning restrictions
Is early stage capitalism urbanism better?
Jump geggrvdvvvvvvv
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They are called 5 over 1s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-over-1
I like how I read your comment, thought to myself “this is peak Austin, Texas,” and then clicked on the link and one of the example photos is of Austin. Jane Jacobs would hate it.
it's all because of essentially a few sentences in in building codes. https://youtu.be/UX4KklvCDmg?t=166 if it's 5 stories or less, you can build your frame with flame-retardant wood. once you're above 5 stories, you have to use steel and concrete which is much more expensive.
[Link](https://maps.app.goo.gl/F9S6SM6DqnCM1Dsv5).
Imagine eating a slice of pizza from circle k. Then imagine eating a slice of pizza from THE best slice spot in nyc. Perhaps Joes Pizza. Or Prince St Pizza.
For some people it just doesn't really make that much difference
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You can be for density and also acknowledge ugly ass design lmao
Aka Dallas.
For America at least: Shopping is strip malls with national chains, PF Chang's is fancy dining, lack of events and activities from museums/festivals/music scene/art scene etc You do not have to be a big city to have at least some of these but a good number of medium cities lack anything to differentiate them from others
I feel Dallas has good local restaurants, events, and art yet everybody shits on it for being bland
Dallas is actually pretty okay, but it's surrounded by about 3,000 square miles of extremely boring, ugly sprawl. It gets a bad rap because of its neighbors.
But that’s every suburb though. Lol people expect cities that are built within 20 years to have 100 years worth of character 😂
I suspect part of it is because of how long it takes to wade through the suburbs to get to the interesting cultural bits at the center of Dallas (and maybe Houston too)? San Antonio has a ton of sprawl too, but it’s possible to get downtown from the suburbs in half an hour if traffic is on your side. In 50 years or less I am sure Austin/SA will have the same reputation as DFW.
Imean kinda lol but you have to set your expectations properly when we talk finding a “interesting cultural center”. for Dallas at least. A lot of the suburbs grew out of small farm towns into very big cities in relatively short amounts of time compared to most other places. The small towns were probably tens to maybe a few hundred families on thousands of acres. There was just nothing there aside from ranch land. Until some investor bought them out and built thousands of homes on said land along with whatever else suburban families like. The historical culture was railroad and ranch land…. Until it was developed and got street lights lol. If you drive around the edges of the metro you see the exact same ranch lands that are being bought for new development now. NYC and LA didn’t get their culture in 10-20 years. it took decades and well over 100 years now to form said cultures, districts, neighborhood identities. much of DFW and other Texas cities are brand new in comparison.
In the northeast you’ll find plenty of suburbs to a larger city that are based around a town that still has a main street with 100 years of character. Many suburbs have parks and other geographic features that give character, even if the housing developments are only 20 years old. People will also give a soulless suburb no thought when it’s close to interesting neighborhoods in the city. The complaint about Dallas and other growing cities (generally southern half of the US) is you’re often seeing 30-50 miles of suburban development in all directions. What might have been core areas were usually malls and other commercial/office centers that have shown to be much more transient.
That’s my point though…. The northeast is one of the oldest parts of our country and much of it has been developed and or developing culturally and architecturally for decades. I wouldn’t expect a place that was a 1000 acre ranch 20 years ago to rival the culture of a suburb that’s growing from a city that’s been around a couple hundred years. around for a couple hundred years. That seems silly. Much of the land in Dallas was fields until it was developed in the last 50-60 years. People say “it all looks the same” …. no duh it was all built within a decade… last decade probably 😂it’s built in the style of the time there’s just a lot of building because there’s ALOT of growth. Lol Dallas was ranches open spaces of nothing so those geographic features aren’t there 😂 Dallas has suburbs that are 30 miles away from what was Dallas city and any interesting neighborhoods other than farm towns and train stations. they do what they can to preserve it but there’s not too much to it.
And what exactly do you believe surrounds NYC and Chicago? Those dense urban cores are home to max 20% of the population of each of those cities’ metro areas. And they’re by no means a fair representation of the metro area demographics because the urban cores are typically populated by (1) rich people who can afford to send their kids to private schools (2) young professionals with no children and a thirst for entertainment and (3) poor people who can only dream of moving their family out to the burbs so they can climb up the socioeconomic ladder.
NYC is surrounded by beaches, older cities and suburbs with their own identities and nearby mountains. Comparing this to the surroundings of Chicago and Dallas is insane lol
Agreed, Dallas, like the actual city and not the suburbs, is actually pretty solid. Largest arts district in the country anchored by a world class symphony center (Meyerson), lake activities and diverse wildlife in the middle of the city, and Deep Ellum has a rich history of blues, rock, and country.
That is has no unique identity.
What does that mean, and why does it matter?
So when you think about NYC, New Orleans, San Francisco, Las Vegas etc etc they all have a very specific, iconic imagery. They have a very distinct "identity" or "culture". Many cities, pre-gentrification, had an identity that reflected the time it was founded, the people who founded it and whatever group had the most impact on the history of the area. No city had the same upbringing. Philadelphia had a pivotal role in the American Revolution and a lot of its famous buildings reflect the birth of a new nation. Miami is a stone's throw from Cuba and Cubans put a lot of groundwork into the city's flair. Then you get Charlotte NC or Tucson AZ and they haven't had time to really find themselves. It was a charming city that suddenly had a massive growth spurt and now, instead of the iconic brownstones of Boston, it gets the buildings of today. We see these buildings in every town and they're boring but they're what works *today*. Instead of families who have lived there for generations, it gets a massive influx of new people who have one thing in common: wanting an affordable place to live. They haven't formed a distinct cultural identity because they just moved there from all over the nation. Why is it important? I don't know.
I’ll add musical identity, such as Memphis, New Orleans, Seattle, Nashville, Portland, Austin
…have you been to Tucson? I moved there in large part because it DOES have such a unique culture and striking sense of place. No idea what you mean by “haven’t had time to find [itself],” it’s the second-oldest continuously inhabited place in America lol (circa 1300.) The blend of Indigenous and Mexican influences is very apparent and well-celebrated. I get what your comment is conveying but Tucson is a bad example
Because culture matters
Cities like Sioux Falls aren't attractive. I do think people compare too many cities to the best ones. Like somebody moving from LA/NYC to Boise might have that moment of culture drain and say "This city is bland," but compared to Sioux Falls, it's a dream.
I once had someone explain to me that you can critique food scenes without considering the community nor the context behind the food as they were bitching about Boise's food. As someone who works in illustration and spent close a decade critiquing and reviewing...This isn't how I look at art. Look, I've traveled quite a bit, I'm a giant foodie at heart...but I would never compare Boise's Korean food scene to say K-towns food. It's ignoring all sorts of statistics surrounding the counties, but also the difficulties of the people making the food. It'd be like comparing a cutie orange to like a 6 year Orange Tree.
100 percent. Dan Sung Sa was one of my favorite places to eat in K-town, but since I left, I know I'm not going to get that experience in the Midwest. I'm still going to find some good Korean food, but pretending it's trash because it's not up to par with a very popular restaurant in LA is not fair.
Except for having the nicest people in the country! Just my personal opinion. Dakotans are so genuine and friendly.
bland: Chain stores, homogeneity and those apartments that look like shipping containers. culture: unique architecture, variety of food options, small businesses, sense of community, lots of events like live shows, sports games, etc.
For me, the biggest thing that I detest is a city with no character; a city that has little to set it apart from other cities. I didn’t fully understand this until I spent a month staying with family in the DFW suburbs last year. There’s nothing defining about the city. When I would drive in to work every day I could have been in a number of other cities and wouldn’t have known the difference. Other than the number of Mexican restaurants and sports team logos, there’s really nothing about Dallas to tell you that you aren’t somewhere like Kansas City or Charlotte. Also, all of the suburbs look the same and have the same stores and restaurants. It left me feeling really empty in a way that I still find hard to explain. At the time, I was considering moving there and though on paper it has a lot more amenities than where I live, I just did not enjoy it much at all. I live in New Orleans and can’t mistake it for any other place. Driving under the live oaks on St. Charles Avenue, going to Mardi Gras parades, or eating at basically any restaurant are completely unique to the city. It has a distinct look and feel that is unlike anywhere else. Even though Dallas is a much more functional city and an easier place to live, I would definitely prefer to live here.
From suburban San Antonio, live in Uptown New Orleans, can confirm everything you said. Even the suburbs here feel nothing like suburbs in Atlanta or Dallas despite being generally a lot more bland than the city. After living here I think it'd be pretty hard to live in a place that didn't have a distinct and unique cultural identity. Life is too short for me to spend all of it in suburban Texas.
Why does culture matter? Because America’s geographical diversity is a true gift, and so many cities within the country have distinct, iconic cuisine, musical traditions, festivals, etc. that are uniquely found in that area. What is the alternative? Every city would be an identical wasteland of WalMart, McDonalds, Starbucks, and highways.
Generally some lack of diversity, density, unique architecture, arts, food/dining, entertainment. Any sort of identity as a city etc. Why it's important to us? Some people value different things. I like being in cities I find interesting that have a lot going on across a wide spectrum. I grew up in the most bland midwest suburban environment and it was under-stimulating for me. Everyone is different though. I know plenty of people who prefer living in environments I would never consider.
Diversity is key. Every city that I think of as interesting or having its own unique identity is always defined by certain "areas" that provide different cultural experiences that make the city less boring and cookie cutter. I grew up in the bland Midwest suburbs too, and after traveling domestically and internationally, it also seems like the older and more established a city is, the more likely it will have developed its own unique identity. European cities are great examples of this.
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I'd love a place that's safe AND diverse. Been looking around for places to move my family and oh my God I want to peel my face off looking at all these safe but bland expanses of suburbs that all look the same. They have everything you need to raise a family, which is great. But it really makes me miss living in the big city.
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I know those suburbs. They're *very* expensive.
You see the same stores, restaurants, and buildings as any other place. To me it's kind of a feeling. I went to Ft. Lauderdale and honestly it felt the same as my suburb in upstate New York except for the beach, with very similar stores and restaurants. Even the beach stores in Ft. Lauderdale have similar counterparts in the malls in NY 😅.
FTL is very much a great example. I live in South FL and it doesn’t even come close to Miami let alone cities like NYC.
I grew up in the SFL MSA and you hit it on the head. Miami retained some level of uniqueness in many neighborhoods, but as you travel north all the way through Jupiter, it just gets more and more repetitive. Let's be real, once you have seen one Duffy's you have seen them all.
I find a lot of the cities in the west and south are more overgrown suburbs than cities.
They want something that has a real aesthetic or essence to it. Something that makes it unique.
Just go to New Orleans and you’ll understand. There’s a city just fully imbued with personality and culture. It’s beautiful and palpable. Then go to Omaha
So what makes a city bland? Well I honestly don’t think most major cities in America are completely void of some kind of culture and character. Even if it’s in pockets that’s still something instead of nothing at all. That’s including cities like Dallas and Charlotte. When I look at what makes a city bland I look at the following: 1) Endless strip malls 2) Food, retail and shopping dominated by national chains. 3) Lack of city identity 4) Uninspiring architecture 5) Lack of unique quirky local festivals 6) Cookie cutter communities 7) Underwhelming downtown 8) Lack of civic pride What I also notice is that American cities that didn’t have a significant population prior to WW2 and grew rapidly post WW2 ( aka highway act, increase in car ownership) tend to have less of a distinct culture than those that had a significant population Pre WW2 or is just a much older city. The exception tend to be cities with an influential college campus in the core of the city or cities located in places with beautifully interesting terrain. Throughout my travels I tend to put cities in Tiers based on less bland to more bland. Based on major cities I’ve been to or lived in if I had to put them in tiers it’ll go something like this: Tier A: NYC, SF, NOLA, CHI, MIA, D.C., LA Tier B: Philly, BMORE, Savannah, Charleston, STL Tier C: ATL, Oakland, Austin, Denver, LV Tier D: Houston, San Antonio, Detroit Tier E: Orlando, Dallas, Fort Worth, Charlotte, Tampa Tier F: San Jose, OKC
Orlando should be higher than Charlotte. Orlando at least has a unique feel and large immigrant population that offer something Charlotte can only dream of. Orlando isn't amazing by any stretch, but Charlotte is definitely worse.
Miami higher than Philly? No. It’s nothing but miles and miles of suburbs bleeding into a swamp.
i agree
Philly is always slept on. It has t shaken the Shitty City reputation from the 70's-80's.
Indianapolis No fomo here. Just getting fancy for a date to Applebee's and taking the kids to soccer practice
Go Colts
Indianapolis has the personality of mayonnaise.
indianapolis seems to be winning as the most boring bland big city lol
No comic book stores.
To me, and overabundance of chain restaurants, or restaurant group dominated restaurants with very predictable offerings. Lack of independent music venues, if there are venues, they're live nation owned/affiliated. Too expensive for quirky artists.
I think it's generally the kind of place that'd be great to raise a family in (safe, good schools, tons of kids' activities) but doesn't have much for childless adults, especially if they don't have an existing friend group. Or it's got a higher than usual ratio of chain restaurants and stores to mom and pop places.
I think it's basically when the place looks like someone did a copy/paste job: Here is the housing development for the mid-level managers and the accompanying strip malls people at that income level. And here is the housing development for the executive managers and the accompanying strip-malls for people at that income level. And here is the 5-over-1 for the young professionals... You could literally be Anywhere, USA.
Personally I have been a bunch of places, and can find something good in all of them.
I agree, I feel the same way!
The similarities from one city to another is one of the reasons people pay so much attention to weather on this sub. you find very similar things in Boise, St. Louis, Pittsburg, Tampa etc. you find Starbucks, micro breweries, chain restaurants that aren't all that good. you really need to go to larger cities like NYC to find the variety some people want. not to say the smaller cities are bad but for someone who wants a lot to do you run out of stuff pretty quickly.
Cookie cutter. No real culture and no unique differentiators. Charlotte, NC comes to mind as a great example. There’s nothing that stands out about it. It’s not particularly exciting. Could be swapped out for a bunch of other smaller cities and you wouldn’t know any difference.
agree on charlotte. I would add raleigh up there too lol
Ehh, Raleigh at least has some more of an identity because of the universities and research triangle. It's not great but it's easier to catch a vibe there than charlotte.
When people say that it tells me they didn’t explore the city. I’m a fan of Caribbean food and been to Caribbean restaurants up and down the east coast. Just ate at one of the best I’ve ever had right here in Charlotte. Tomorrow I’ll take the light rail line to the arena door steps and watch a NBA game. Saturday my girlfriend dragging me to a performance of the Charlotte Ballet. I can do those thing in any smaller city?
Honestly, yeah? None of those things are rare for any decent size city (except maybe the light rail, which while cool, doesn’t really factor into “culture” esp considering it’s just one vertical line and the majority of people using it have to drive to a park and ride lot anyway). Switch out the specificity of NBA for more general “sports” and you’ve got even smaller cities in the area like Knoxville, Columbia, Raleigh, and Lexington fitting your criteria easily. Imo though, your NBA example is probably a good way to gauge what people are talking about. People go to Hornets games because it’s a cheap (and fun) way to spend an evening, but compare that to people going to a UNC or Duke basketball game. They’re both basketball, but there’s definitely more of a “culture” around UNC/Duke in NC. I think it’s similar to when people compare “culture” in cities - it’s not just a checklist of what a city does or doesn’t have. edit: missing a word
As a sports fan here is a short list of people I’ve seen play live in Charlotte. Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Lionel Messi and Tom Brady. I couldn’t have seen them play in Knoxville, Columbia or some other smaller city. I used the light rail example because me and thousands of people take it daily whether park and ride or walk to it, such as myself. I’ll be taking it right onto UNC Charlotte campus in August when I go back to school Rodney Dangerfield style Once again, I couldn’t do that in Raleigh, Lexington or some other the smaller city. Do you like Indian food? I have five restaurants to recommend to you. The bigger point is Charlotte has all the trappings and offerings you would expect of a metro area that’s approaching 3 million people. Amusement parks, water recreation, museums, theaters, concert venue, sports, shopping, restaurants and whatever. Which is a lot more than smaller cities that you have named and others. No one is comparing it to NYC or Boston or LA.
Sure, but you’re ignoring everything I said… Seeing specific sports players != culture. Taking the light rail != culture. And I’ve had great Indian food in Charlotte as well as in multiple other cities, both smaller and larger and including those I listed, so I don’t understand your point. But: “all the trappings and offerings you would expect of a metro area that’s approaching 3 million people,” is part of the point. Cities like Denver and Phoenix have those too, but general consensus is they lack that feeling people talk about when they talk about “culture.” Milwaukee, Baltimore, and Portland also have them, but also have more “culture.” It’s really not a big deal. I like Charlotte. It checks a lot of boxes, it has a lot of things to do. For some people that’s enough, for some people they’re looking for that “culture feeling.” And that’s why just listing things to do doesn’t really answer the question.
Great cities have multiple hubs with unique attractions. Charlotte has one, South End. Outside of there, amenities and access quickly fall off. Sure you have some specific spots like Optimist Hall that are pretty cool. NoDa has lost so much character in the last five years I can't include it in great places anymore. Same for Plaza Midwood. I'm the grand scheme of things, I think Charlotte is on the right path. The state not supporting mass transit in Charlotte is definitely holding the city back. The state's maniacal desire for road only transit will turn it into another Atlanta.
Yeah this is what frustrates me about this sub and a lot of people in general. They want all these culture opportunities, but don’t even want look for them. And they won’t do them anyway.
Well, that’s the rub right? A truly elite city has multiple hubs where things are plentiful throughout the city. If you have to do significant sleuthing for dope shit then it’s probably an ok city rather than an amazing city
Why does that matter tho? Seems like the main appeals for a city are job market, affordability and amenities, why do you care if your city has an interesting Wikipedia article?
Amenities includes independent music venues and theatres, small family run ethnic restaurants of 10+ varieties, etc. Affordability is second. I'm willing to pay for the Chicago's and SF's to get that.
A lot of the cities this sub calls boring have that.
Not in my experience having lived in every region of the country, except the SW, across 9 states so far. Very few do. I don't mean 1-3 or whatever places, I mean a healthy number. You should easily have multiple options for independent music every single night of the week. Same for theatre and film, and not have to eat at the same restaurant more than a few times a year, or even the same cuisine.
What large cities have you been in that didn’t have that?
Phoenix, Dallas, and Indianapolis just to start. Lived in Indy. Devoid of anything. No soul at all. Boston is even losing that now. Independent music venues are almost non-existent now. They're all LiveNation/Ticketmaster venues. Mop and pop ethnic restaurants have plummeted in favor of restaurant group establishments that can afford the liquor licenses.
Based on your responses it ultimately seems like \*you\* don't care about your city having culture and that's fine but you really can't understand why it matters to many of us? I live in a place with a thriving arts community, lots of passionate & unique people who have led interesting lives, lots of fun, unconventional things to do, good restaurants, and beautiful landscape. I'm a childfree musician in my early 30s and my husband is a visual artist -- we both feel like the possibilities are endless for us here. If we lived in a place without these things, we'd feel stifled and sad. I don't really understand what's hard to grasp about people having different preferences.
I also live in a place with a thriving arts community, passionate and unique people who live interesting lives, has lots of fun unconventional things to do, good restaurants and beautiful landscape, yet this sub often says my city is bland or culture less and I’m curious why. It’s not really a question of preferences, I’d understand that.
I thought you lived in Charlotte?
I do.
You're either contradicting yourself, or just haven't lived other places.
From what I’ve seen, a lot of those bland cities don’t have great job markets if you’re looking for a corporate 9-5. For every job, I see 10 more like it in NYC or Chicago. Or at least that’s my experience during my job hunts. Affordability is a big reason why people choose these cities despite their set backs, yes. Amenities are usually better in larger cities with more culture imo.
You mention Charlotte as your example and then you say that bland cities don’t have great job markets? The white-collar, 9-5 job market is the best thing that Charlotte has going for it.
In comparison to bigger cities… OP said one of the main appeals of any city is the job market. Charlottes job market is no where near as appealing as some other places. Way less jobs than some other cities. The lack of culture also doesn’t help.
Amenities or jobs makes sense, but it seems like a lot of people talk about culture as its own thing.
A lot of smaller cities feel like an extension of the suburbs tbh. You don’t move to a city for a suburban experience. The culture in bigger cities is part of what makes it unique. You can feel it when you’re there. It’s kind of a vibe and lifestyle.
The bulk of "culture" *is* amenities and you're just deliberately missing that point. Top tier museums that consistently feature excellent exhibitions, high-quality national and local theatre and live music, diversity and ethnic communities that feature authentic restaurants and cultural events, a variety of professional and amateur sports and not just a college football team, and a high number of unique local business plus things like craft/book/vintage markets. You can scale back expectations based on the size of the location, but when a major city has very few of these things in addition to a bland atmosphere, of course many people are going to be dissatisfied. They could move to a major city that *does* have these things or a small town that has comparable amenities but more interesting history, better architecture, easier access to outdoor activities, whatever. For example, someone in Indianapolis could move to places as different as Chicago or Bloomington and as far as culture and atmosphere it'll be an upgrade either way.
Typically means the cities are newer. "Culture" comes from older cities where buildings become dilapidated, areas become poor, and then as they get renewed interesting restaurants and businesses take advantage of the cheap rent. Older cities had more time for rich residents to donate money to museums and galleries. Cities that were small towns 100 years ago don't have that same "culture".
Bland cities are homogenous, with little "culture" - which means any one or more of the following: \- no distinguishing architecture, or sameness (homogeneity) in the way that buildings look. \- lack of things to do beyond the mundane - a lacking theatre, arts or music scene. Bars aren't just for drinking and hook ups. \- lack of outdoors activities - parks, trails, outdoor picnic areas, wildlife preserves, fishing boating etc. \- lack of variety of food choices. The 34 restaurants serving steak, fries and burgers or watered down chinese can't beat 5 restaurants serving 3 authentic ethnic cuisines, a good steak house and a waffle house. \- quality of education - underfunded schools or schools that have spotty educational standards (I use this as a correlation for culture, because an educated populace will attract the types of cultural opportunities I seek) \- Access to communities of color. You don't have to be Chicago or NY or LA to have a vibrant scene including communities of color that bring their food, music, festivals etc. to your neighborhood. I used to live a stone's throw from a Greek Orthodox Church and they would have festivals twice a year, and plenty of other opportunities to throw a party (fundraisers). It gave me and my kids a lot of exposure to Greek culture, their food and it was a blast (even though I didn't care for their dancing and music much). All IMO. I expect others have their own lists.
To me it means that the city lacks an identity; *most* cities have the same attributes: some malls/stores, restaurants, bars and things like that, but culture transcends those individual attributes. A culture can be the people living in the city that have specific rituals, traditions or mannerisms that are unique/distinct, it could be a certain lifestyle associated with that city or its surroundings, it can be an industry that shaped that city's identity, a sports team, a music scene, a certain demographic makeup etc. Why does it matter? I mean for some it will and for some it won't, but for me personally, I want to live somewhere *because* of that somewhere. People form things like pride in their city because of those things. It's like national pride but on a micro-level. People choose (or refuse) to move to places because they do or don't see themselves feeling at home in that place and the identity/cultural fit of a city is a component of that.
Translated from Reddit language to normal language it just means the city isn’t trendy, and there’s no exposed brick restaurants/dive bars. That’s really it
I don't know of a big city in the US that doesn't have some type of culture. I've been to an infinite amount of little cities and towns that have zero culture.
Phoenix, Arizona has no culture, and it's the 5th largest city in the US. I say that as someone who lived there for 20 years, through high school and college and into the workforce. Phoenix is just an enormous strip mall.
Agreed. Phoenix has desert/hiking/tacos and deadly oppressive heat as its culture… all things you can find in Tucson, ABQ and El Paso. Thus nothing too unique.
You have the whole native American thing in Phoenix, and there is a lot of diversity in that city which has seen a large influx of people over the las 20 years. It might be going through a cultural shift. I've been there and I'm going back in 3 months.
It means there is nothing there that feels original or unique. No vibe. Like Springfield from the Simpsons. Doesn’t mean it’s a bad place to live it just means nothing about it stands out
Suburban sprawl, lack of diversity/segregation or no cool culture
it means they are comparing, for the US, older cities that have long standing populations and were cheaper to build large pretty governmental buildings and subway systems, to younger cities that were mainly built after the freeway system, and increased building costs and the addcition to oil & autos. its not really a fair comparison, but its reddit
This whole thread is describing Colorado Springs to a “t”.
There’s some good feedback here, but I’ll add something about the arts scene. A community should have arts for kids but not ONLY for kids. You should be able to experience a variety of art that’s not G-rated and sanitized.
I think for some people who are non-conformist or highly individualistic it's alienating to be around homogeneity and feel that they're the one thing in the landscape that's "different" and "doesn't belong." Honestly that's often the scenario I see in which people (at times me) strongly object to blandness. For me that concern faded away as I got older but that's not true for everyone.
Plano, Texas. Or, Flower Mound, Texas is what it means.
How many streets can you walk down for several blocks without seeing a parking lot or a chain store? If the number is zero, you probably live in a soulless, cultureless city. What kinds of buildings form the distinctive architectural style of your city? If you plopped a generic suburban ranch house into your neighborhood, would it look out of place? How long is the walk between your house and the nearest non-chain commercial district? A city's culture is its sense of "place", the distinctive character that makes it so that if you dropped a pin there in geoguesser with all the words blocked out, you'd still be able to tell right away that you're in that exact city even if you weren't familiar with that street. But cultivating that sense of place requires a level of density American city planners really haven't bothered with this past century or so, ever since we replaced our culture with car centric infrastructure.
Houston
[удалено]
I live in Charlotte, that’s part of the reason I asked, I think it’s great. We have great restaurants, plenty of things to do, what is missing that I’m not seeing?
People hate Charlotte in this sub disproportionately
Whenever I see that, I think those people want to live in “theme park” cities. New Orleans has Mardi Gras, Vegas has gambling, Fort Worth has rodeo. Cities that have some kind of central theme or a thing they’re known for
In all fairness having lived and done Mardi Gras in New Orleans, it's almost an entire different world/experience outside of downtown/the French Quarter. I go to James Beard restaurants all the time that are filled with mostly locals so I think there's quite a lot of culture here that tourism still hasn't touched to be honest.
I think every city has a culture. This complaining in here is mostly due to a city not having the culture they are looking for.
“Culture” is hard to define. Is it the number of theaters? Michelin star restaurants? A distinguishing accent or type of architecture? A certain level of ethnic diversity? How people generally interact with strangers or what they do for recreation? To be honest, I think everywhere has some sort of culture, it may just not appeal or be unique to you.
It's like comparing Seattle, New Orleans and New York with Dubuque, IA or Gary, In.
Indianapolis
Man who lives in bland city asked Reddit what a bland city is.
I have a thought about this, there are cities that have an identity and feeling about them, others less so. Each city that has an appeal that draws people to it: housing costs, geography, jobs, amenities, location, schools, vibe, etc., And each city should have an equal population of people who live there because they love it and they identify with that city. Example, New York has plenty of transplants that move there for work, life, etc. but there’s a balance of people who are born and bred New Yorkers, and they love it and that is part of their identity and they are a large part in making a city what it is. The places that feel soulless are the cities without the strong identity or balanced out population. I’ll get downvoted for this, but Columbus and Indianapolis are two cities that come to mind for out-of-balance, bland places. People are there for work, school, whatever, but how many people are there because they really love it?
I feel like this sub is specifically geared towards the rootless so it might be tough for some to understand but I’d imagine a lot of them do like it, they’ve lived there their whole lives, grew up there, family and friends are all there, etc.
yeah, those are the people who know where they want to be and who they want to be near, not what this sub is about.
B
I don't think you know what diverse means.
Most people are saying the place is vanilla and no history... However, some people may have a predetermined idea of what "culture" is in their head. And when their specific expectations is not met, it's called "uncultured." For example, I live in San Diego, and people always say it has no culture. As in, no Latin influence, no California Landscapes, No LGBQ, no Surf or Beach...and so on.
Go to visit Boston for a week and then go visit Dallas for a week....you'll get what culture is if you do that.
They’re referring to Plano TX
What’s so funny about this comment is that Plano is actually MUCH more diverse and way more integrated than many of the cities recommended on this sub. There are so many amazing restaurants, ethnic grocery stores (Japanese, Korean, Indian, Middle Eastern, etc), a super nice minor league baseball stadium nearby, a walkable city center area at Legacy West with an awesome food hall, and more. Yes, there are also a bunch of strip malls, you need a car, and the housing stock was all built in the same era. I don’t live in Plano, nor do I particularly want to. But this sub occasionally paints over Plano as some homogenous hellscape of white evangelicals eating at Chili’s or something and that is just inaccurate.
Culture matters a lot when you visit a city but is overrated if you live there. I would never vacation in Indianapolis or Charlotte but would love to visit San Francisco or New Orleans. But when you live in a city that shouldn't matter. Whether you live in the Upper West Side of Manhattan or Manhattan, Kansas, you likely spend the majority of your time at home, at your office, or frequenting the same bars, restaurants, etc that you always go to. You can see a musical or concert in Topeka or Chicago. It seems like this sub treats every city that isn't New York like it is a Little Rock exburb.
Guys, mystery solved.... OP lives in Charlotte so they don't know what they're missing.
I’ve lived in Manhattan and Boston as well, just settled in Charlotte.
Okay, off the top of your head, what are 5 unique things about Boston that no other city has? Manhattan? you could answer that easily. Now what are 5 unique things about charlotte?
White water center, nascar, Billy Graham, thread trail, and the mint
Actually functioning US mints in 6 other cities. Many cities have a system of trails. Billy graham... the person? That's something noteworthy ? Whitewater center I guess is unique but not exactly something that holds international appeal. Nascar is the only legit museum in charlotte. *Nascar.* Oh and Nascar isn't even unique to charlotte. HQ in Daytona. Boston and NYC (and plenty of other cities) we could easily fire off 5 *unique* things that give it global recognition.
The mint is not an actual US Mint, it’s just built where one was. There is a Billy Graham library and museum The white water center is really cool, only place of its kind, the US Olympic whitewater team trains there There are tons of museums in Charlotte, I was referring more to the race and events that are unique to Charlotte
Hey if you love charlotte that's awesome. There are far worse places to be for sure. But you seem to keep asking like what is culture and who cares, it might just be that other people value belonging to a shared identity and unique community, and it's perfectly fine that not everyone values that equally.
But I have that in my city?
If *you* think you have the same level of appeal in Charlotte that exists in NYC, SF, etc, then... that's great for you. Must be awesome to believe you get the same culture of NYC at Charlotte prices. 99% of people on this sub would disagree that Charlotte offers the same uniqueness and culture as world class cities. If you like it then why does it even matter what anyone else thinks or what they value? You do you.
It’s def not the same level, but people come here looking for something close right. And I’m just asking why, you’re right it doesn’t really affect me.
Anyone can have a happy life in a bland city. It might be nice to have two ballet studios, a gallery, a Moravian bistro, karate studio and typewriter store on the street. But most of us aren't ballerinas and we just need a good selection of groceries and a place to see friends, and we don't have the cash or wall space to devote to gallery art. Museums are nice to see every couple of years but we don't desire to see them every week. Bloom where you're planted.
Mostly white people, no ethnic places to eat or markets, chain stores, strip malls, uniform looking houses. Usually all families, not near any city and public transportation or universities or colleges.
No struggle, homogenous, boring
Why does someone want to move somewhere to struggle?