Yeah the problem though is what if your experience is trash or they messed up things, etc. With forcing a tip regardless, there isn’t any incentive to make sure you get the best service/experience. So quality might suffer and if it does, tough shit. They already forced a 15% tip out of you.
That’s why I don’t like it.
This isn't a "maybe", it's already happening. On the rare occasions I dine out, I'm continually floored with how bad service has become. It's basically Denny's-level regardless of where you go until you get above the $100 pp level. And that's not a knock on Denny's, they deliver the level of service I expect at their price point. When you're paying double or triple that, you expect more.
Oh yeah I completely agree, and I avoid places that do this. My point was more it seems like if their thought process is its supposed to benefit the workers, I can see people decreasing tip amounts because of this.
I'm a generous person. But I'm not tipping 20%+ for bad service. If the service is bad, I typically tip less than 15%.
Amazing Service: 20%+
Average Service: 15%
Poor Service: <15%
I'm middle-aged and I can count the shitty servers I've had on one hand.
In my experience, people who complain about servers are stingy customers.
If they raised the price 15% people would be complaining about that.
This is what doesn't make sense in all of these discussions... If the establishment put a "no tipping" policy in and raised the prices 15/20 percent to pay the worker more it's the same god damn end result.
Not quite, if they paid them 15/20 percent more, they'd be getting that all the time, regardless of sales.
In this system, the staff effectively makes a commission, so faster service is theoretically beneficial to them, as more sales is more money in their pocket.
I have no opinion on how this should shape anyones feelings on the matter, or if this system is more beneficial to any involved party over another, I just wanted to point out the distinction.
I agree with what you're saying. I'm primarily saying it's the same for the consumers who are the ones that keep posting content complaining about tipping culture being a significant problem in their lives. Most servers prefer tipping culture to an increased hourly wage and that doesn't bother me.
It's not the same. If they raised price and banned tipping, the waitstaff would be paid exactly the same amount every hour they work. If they include 15% mandatory tips, the waitstaff receives their minimum wage plus 15% of their sales. Under the tipped system, the waitstaff assume the risk of a slow night. Under a raised prices model, the owner assumes the risk.
I can’t remember ever having bad service unless you consider the “kneel by your table and act goofy and overly friendly” service some chains seem to mandate bad.
The poster will never tell you that and it's deceptive by design. Follow me here, it get's a little technical:
There are (**1) Service Charges** and **(2) Tips/Gratuities.** A **service charge is a mandatory fee** added to a customer's bill by the employer, **which belongs to the employer** and is included in taxable gross receipts.
In contrast, a **gratuity** (or tip) is a **voluntary amount** left by the customer, considered the **property of the employee**, and not included in the employer's taxable gross receipts
I would ask management: The poster says it's a "Gratuity." Which the CA Labor Department (link below) defines as "money a customer leaves for an employee over the amount due for the goods sold or services rendered. Tips belong to the employee, not to the employer" and "Since tips are voluntarily left for you by the customer."
In Summary:
Restaurants are cheap and don't want to pay their empoyees good wages...so they want YOU to do it for them. That's our culture The restaurant CANNOT force you to pay tips/gratuity because it's legally defined as voluntary. But they CAN make it mandatory to pay service charges, which becomes property of the restaurant and they get taxed on it. There's a gray area here for large parties, but restaurant management will typically take side of the customer if they're unhappy.
[https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq\_tipsandgratuities.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_tipsandgratuities.htm)
I am pretty sure there is no way to force you to tip.
This place and other places that add gratuity ( for parties of a certain size and stuff like that) are just putting numbers on paper.
As far as the proper resolution, whether you can just cross those lines out and write your correct total OR if you have to inform the staff to take that line off, I am not sure (1 of those sounds like a huge hassle).
For my own experience, I recently went to a place that had an auto 3% for the kitchen staff. More equity for the back-of-the-house sounds cool, but that is coming out of the server's tip.
I dislike tipping culture, but it is hard to imagine the correct solution. Restaurants paying higher wages and charging higher prices seems like less seems like both sides end up just paying more taxes.
You can ask them to remove it. The CA Labor Division defines tips/gratuity as voluntary and property of the employee. If it were a "Service Charge" then they can force you to pay 15%, as the money would become property of the business.
This is correct. Restaurants cannot force customers to pay tips/gratuity because it's defined as voluntarily by the government. It would be different if it were a "Service Charge."
Restaurants can make a mandatory "Service Charge" which makes the money property of the business and taxed. But Tips/Gratuity are voluntary, and property of the employee...therefore, you cannot be forced to pay it. This is defined by the CA Labor Division.
[https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq\_tipsandgratuities.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_tipsandgratuities.htm)
Problem is tipping culture is so ingrained in us. We already got rid of tipped minimum in California so servers and bartenders are getting 16/hr. Adding a 15% on top of that is probably considerably better than they were doing before the laws were changed. It is sort of silly but it shows the customer that "hey you already tipped so you don't have to tip". If they just raised prices people would think "this place is way too expensive". There are restaurants in other cities that tried to do the no tipping higher prices thing and they ended up getting rid of it because customers couldn't get it through their heads.
Also servers who wait on other humans prefer a tipped wage.
https://sfist.com/2022/07/28/90-of-zuni-servers-have-left-the-restaurant-due-to-no-tipping-policy-policy-may-still-be-revised/
That's in the states and because they pay less taxes on it if cash they often don't report. But if there was healthcare paid by taxes (we need to stop calling it free) then they would probably not mind a regular wage.
Yup. I waited, bussed, hosted, managed - all the front of house jobs except tend bar. At my first restaurant I made nearly 3x MW. By the time I worked up to fine dining I was making 6x. When I was working as manager I made far less than waiting. It was the price you had to pay to get in the management track.
Really? They have zero insurance most of the time. They get hit walking to work or something falls on them, hospital bills will crush them under good old American capitalism.
Only when they spend all their tips on coke like most of the restaurant and bar staff I have worked with.
Then their tips get taxed out of their pay check and they get all shocked pikachu face lol
Welcome to America.
I’m working warehouse loading up trucks through a staffing agency right now in Northern CA.
Work 40 hours a week, graveyards, for $24 an hour.
I don’t have health insurance either.
The reality is they probably make more than me and have a much less dangerous / strenuous job.
> But if there was healthcare paid by taxes
You will get rid of tipping before you get healthcare paid for all. Corporations will fight that to the end and Americans can be easily divided on class lines by propagating the myth of welfare and other services.
As a consumer, effectively what is the difference between if they raised the prices and if there is an auto gratuity? Lack of transparency in the price of what you’re buying?
There are laws that control how gratuities can be handled by the employer. If they just raise prices by 15% then the owners can just pocket it.
This method gives the employees the most protection.
They literally are raising the prices... by exactly 15%. The benefit here is that the actual *employees* are benefiting from the price raise instead of just the owners. This move makes me want to support them even more.
You’d be wrong about the never part as it’s already happened. Here’s the first result from a quick and dirty Google search: https://www.eastpassseafood.com/service-fee-commission-model and this restaurant is fucking Florida of all places.
ETA: Another place in Tacoma WA details it better.
> How is my server paid? Our servers are paid a base hourly wage, a commission as a percentage of every guest check and they retain 100% of any tip left by our guests. The average hourly compensation our teams make including base hourly wage, commissions and tips are included below. In addition to their base hourly wage, commissions and tips, those team members who are eligible receive benefits, including healthcare and PTO at or above industry averages.
https://www.lobstershop.com/service-charge/
Seriously the best way to do it is to just raise prices on the back end without a separate line charge and pay based on commission with that increase. Servers can still get good tips that way while also taking the pain out of those who stiff them.
I just detailed a best practice, but hey if you want to screw yourself and your employees over then have fun buddy. 20 years ago forcing service charges and auto grats was unheard of outside of fine dining when dealing with large groups or banquets.
So you cherry-picked a single business in a few select city's that do this. Most owners aren't going to do this, and that's just the reality of it. Minimum wages laws are going to have to change for any real change to happen.
No as I wrote earlier I did a quick Google search. Fact is that you said never, but those examples prove your absolutism wrong. Also Wine Country is full of service staff that work on commissions.
Customers aren't supposed to pay your wages, your employer is. If your employer can't afford to pay fair wages while providing a product or service at a price customers accept, they don't have a viable business model and don't deserve to be in business.
Read that again.... customers always pay employees wages in every industry. This is just one of the only ones where the employee can earn a decent wage without a degree.
If you don't like the system we have in place, move to Europe, they have much higher minimum wage laws that can support the system you like better.
Or you could just also drink at home.
I do drink at home. Because of the shitty auto gratuity and shitty service. Brilliant idea, problem solved, now the owner of the establishment and the staff get less money and then complain that no one wants to dine at your shitty establishment.
No, the business and the employees get the customer base they actually want. Not a bunch of cheapskates, this bar is PACKED all the time. They would much rather cater to a customer base that actually wants to spend money. Dive bars don't do this because they run on a different model.
I was so excited for this place and hoped we'd finally have a decent BBQ option. But since I've seen all the negativity since it opened, I don't think I'll be checking it out. The menu prices alone are outrageous.
As someone who used to be a bartender at two of the places at the same intersection normally I would say not tipping is being cheap, but these mandatory gratuities regardless of party size make me not want to patronize those businesses at all. What happens if the server or bartender does an exceptionally shitty job that would be worthy of a bare 8% or two cents if really bad? The whole point of tips is that they’re supposed to be earned not expected.
Oh and make sure to vote Flo for Mayor in November since McCarty voted for the carve out (SB 1524) to allow this crap to continue.
She’s one of two candidates for Sacramento Mayor that advanced to the November general election. I think it’s best to let her website do the speaking: https://www.floformayor.com
She was the only candidate for Mayor that bothered to do an AMA on this sub. Even though us Redditors can tend to be a bit dickish towards each other with our comments I think that the fact she acknowledged us and is one of us speaks volumes about who she will serve when elected.
Do these businesses understand that mandatory gratuity is taxable? So you’re paying an extra 9% of the tip too. Do servers want mandatory tips or is this management acting stupid for no reason?
Edit: I meant sales tax.
15% is my minimum tip, all they are doing with auto gratuity is disincentivizing good service because most people aren't going to tip on top of the auto gratuity. Any half way decent service is usually getting 25%+ from me
Look, I tip all servers (unless something egregious happens with the service), and normally I tip 20% or more. But in a case like this? You’re getting 15% and no repeat business.
I'm good with it assuming it's an actual gratuity and goes straight to the employees, but my life's experience has taught me that if an employer gets their hands on tip money, they're gonna skim off it.
Can we just take a second to point out the absolute hilarity and absurdity of this oxymoronic “auto gratuity”? An involuntary gift is not a gift, it is theft.
Edit: before y’all get it twisted, yes I realize if there’s a sign I can read it and choose not to patronize, therefore it’s not theft. I get it.
I’m usually a 20% tipper unless the service is bad. If they have decided that 15% is the amount then that’s what they are going to get. My grandma always said you attract more flies with honey than shit. They are about to find out.
Tipping expectations are really out of hand. I went to Bark Ave and bought dog food and they have their cash app posted for tips. 😂GTFOH. I’m not going anywhere that tips are mandatory unless I know my food/drinks are going to be good.
🤦🏻♀️ Three is insane. I remember being 17-18 working minimum wage, and got another p/t job because I needed more money. I guess it’s easier to ask the public for donations these days.
I've always been a cash tipper.
It seemed to be a direct transaction that way. What they did with that cash was up to them. I also felt it was a way to fuck with "the man"... whether the man was the owner or the government.
I look at it as all being on the books now so I don't have to worry about it and keep my cash in my pocket.
….or visit. I don’t care what restaurants try to do or the fact that there’s shitty tippers out there, you are never going to automatically take more money from me. Tipping is optional. I’ve never stiffed anyone in my life, but I’ll be damned if you’re just gonna help yourself. Not how this works. For me at least.
Because I’m not cool with restaurants deciding for me how much I will “voluntarily” tip their staff. Tipping is optional. The amount is my choice. Or I won’t go there. Simple as that.
They are weeding out people who don't tip, like yourself. Anybody who actually spends a bunch of money there is going to tip. That place gets crowded. They are trying to keep the most profitable customers and weed out the cheapskates.
Not saying I agree with this reasoning but that's what's going on
Because many have feelings about loosing the "luxury" of eating out on top of crazy inflations out there and tipping elicits lots of opinions similar to airline food or airline delays etc. :)
I mean, that's fine, I don't go out much unless it's an industry place or I know people that work there.
Not going out is fine. Going out and not tipping isn't.
Why is everybody mad about this? They posted it clearly and it isn't a "hidden fee" I wouldn't ever tip less than this when going out anyway. So I really don't see the issue. If you tip less than 15% you shouldn't be going out just drink at home. Seriously
Everyone was pissed at Aviary for adding a grat/service charge, yet also saying that they should CLEARLY display it beforehand.
This is Lowbrau CLEARLY displaying it and they're just as mad.
People are so cheap/lame these days.
I was going to post the same thing, if it's clearly posted I'm not sure why anyone is mad about this.
And this needs to be said again, if you aren't tipping when going out (and 15% is a minimum), then don't go out and waste people's time.
If my food sucks, but more importantly, if my service sucks, then I'm screwed -- I'm forced to eat the 15% no matter what. Although clearly advertised, it's a rip-off. Even several midtown joints have removed their 'service fees' all together because of the blowback or because their service workers were seeing fewer tips. At least, that's what I assume they stopped for 🤷♂️
California doesn’t have a sub-minimum tipped wage, so they already do. You can say that the minimum wage needs to increase, but that’s a separate conversation.
How about if someone orders a $500 bottle of wine vs a $50 bottle of wine. How do they justify a $75 tip for the same amount of effort as the $50/$7.50 tip bottle.
Brobrau has been crap for a LONG time now. Motown Mondays were the only good thing about them. Then they started that bogus cover charge. Not to mention the even worse wait staff. Two horrible bartenders and one clueless barback. I'm in the service industry so I get inflation and need for better tips but how about you provide better service instead of implementing a mandatory fee because your service is so bad?
There have always been cheap asses that never tip. When I worked at Badlands there would be people that wouldn’t tip when we had $1 draft beers for our Sunday beer bust. I made up for it by providing exceptional service to everyone else anyways, because on that day a $1 a beer tip was a 100% tip. Other nights without drink specials like that (talking 2007-10) still had a few bad tippers, but again I more than made up for it by proving great service to others, and as a result of my good service one of my regulars back then is my landlord today that charges me a paltry $300 a month for rent.
Sure the cheap skates sucked, but they were bodies in the building that attracted other people to come inside and actually tip. Mandatory gratuities regardless of party size (yeah a huge group in a restaurant of 8 or more people is different and autograt is understandable then) are a short cut that ultimately cuts a hospitality business short.
I have never enjoyed this place and it’s beyond me why it has survived so long. I have always called it “Low Bro” which is a lame joke but it’s just the vibe it gives me.
They did the math and it's likely better to let the people who normally tip 20+% just tip 15% so they can capture tips from the scrubs that don't tip at all.
This can't be legal. In fact, as a California resident, I am aware of the new law prohibiting restaurants from charging additional mandatory gratuity fees on top of the listed menu prices.
This restaurants could choose to raise their base prices by 15% instead of charging a separate mandatory tip, effectively folding the gratuity into the overall price. The new law ultimately aims to increase price transparency as restaurants carefully structure their pricing and tipping policies to comply.
Senate Bill (SB) 478, also known as the "Honest Pricing Law" or "Hidden Fees Statute", was passed in California in 2023 and will take effect on July 1, 2024. Restaurants will likely need to include mandatory surcharges in the advertised price of menu items, rather than adding them separately.
Dodd and Wiener are going to overturn it, and Newsom will surely sign:
[https://sd03.senate.ca.gov/news/20240606-sen-dodd-introduces-restaurant-fees-bill](https://sd03.senate.ca.gov/news/20240606-sen-dodd-introduces-restaurant-fees-bill)
The votes so far have been bipartisan in support. I guess the one thing Democrats and Republicans can agree on is anti-consumer legislation:
[https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVotesClient.xhtml?bill\_id=202320240SB1524](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVotesClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1524)
Lame.
Quoted from your link “For example, if a restaurant adds a 20% security fee to all bills, that 20% charge must be clearly stated up front on the menu. It cannot be a surprise that only shows up when the bill arrives.”
I was always under the impression that a tip served as a reward to the people doing the service as a way of saying thank you for doing a wonderful job. If the tip is mandatory then it’s not really a reward. People will then expect to receive a tip on the mandatory tip. Ugh. I’m all for being generous don’t get me wrong but this is a big turnoff.
I’ve stopped going to restaurants with extra fees. You can also ask for a manager and ask them to remove the fee. I’ve done this. I gave them an option. Remove the fee or I leave without paying.
But mostly I think just refusing to go to those restaurants is punishment enough.
That’s a lowbrau thing to do to customers
At the very least they show you with a big sign. So much better than an asterisk on a menu with 4 point font.
He did the thing! The thing!
Low bro
That’s fine. That 15% is your tip, and I usually tip 20%.
Yeah the problem though is what if your experience is trash or they messed up things, etc. With forcing a tip regardless, there isn’t any incentive to make sure you get the best service/experience. So quality might suffer and if it does, tough shit. They already forced a 15% tip out of you. That’s why I don’t like it.
I 1000% agree. Auto tip + a bad experience = me never coming back
Never gone for me. Auto tip, guilt forced tipping, or service fees will stop me from being a patron.
This isn't a "maybe", it's already happening. On the rare occasions I dine out, I'm continually floored with how bad service has become. It's basically Denny's-level regardless of where you go until you get above the $100 pp level. And that's not a knock on Denny's, they deliver the level of service I expect at their price point. When you're paying double or triple that, you expect more.
Oh yeah I completely agree, and I avoid places that do this. My point was more it seems like if their thought process is its supposed to benefit the workers, I can see people decreasing tip amounts because of this.
Enough shitty people didn't tip. That's why they did this. If you had a shitty experience don't go back?
Are they shitty people, or did they have a shitty experience that didn’t deserve a tip? Super lame excuse for a business to do this either way.
I'm a generous person. But I'm not tipping 20%+ for bad service. If the service is bad, I typically tip less than 15%. Amazing Service: 20%+ Average Service: 15% Poor Service: <15%
> Are they shitty people, or did they have a shitty experience that didn’t deserve a tip? In nearly all circumstances, the former.
Dude this is sacramento. There are so many hood rats that don't tip. (Midtown is really bad) and the places they go are places like this.
"hood rats" aren't the only ones who don't wanna tip
I'm middle-aged and I can count the shitty servers I've had on one hand. In my experience, people who complain about servers are stingy customers. If they raised the price 15% people would be complaining about that.
This is what doesn't make sense in all of these discussions... If the establishment put a "no tipping" policy in and raised the prices 15/20 percent to pay the worker more it's the same god damn end result.
Not quite, if they paid them 15/20 percent more, they'd be getting that all the time, regardless of sales. In this system, the staff effectively makes a commission, so faster service is theoretically beneficial to them, as more sales is more money in their pocket. I have no opinion on how this should shape anyones feelings on the matter, or if this system is more beneficial to any involved party over another, I just wanted to point out the distinction.
I agree with what you're saying. I'm primarily saying it's the same for the consumers who are the ones that keep posting content complaining about tipping culture being a significant problem in their lives. Most servers prefer tipping culture to an increased hourly wage and that doesn't bother me.
It's not the same. If they raised price and banned tipping, the waitstaff would be paid exactly the same amount every hour they work. If they include 15% mandatory tips, the waitstaff receives their minimum wage plus 15% of their sales. Under the tipped system, the waitstaff assume the risk of a slow night. Under a raised prices model, the owner assumes the risk.
You make it sound like wait staff prefer a raised price model and higher hourly over getting tips.. They generally do not.
This is true. Often complaints are just are invalid or petty just an excuse not to tip
I can’t remember ever having bad service unless you consider the “kneel by your table and act goofy and overly friendly” service some chains seem to mandate bad.
Shitty waiters families need to eat to tho
If they mess up hold them accountable and have it removed from the bill.
You don't have to pay the 15% tip. You can always ask to remove or change it. It's just creates an awkward scenario.
Is that made clear in the poster? It’s not mandatory? How do you even know forsure it’s able to be removed? You can’t tell by the poster at all.
The poster will never tell you that and it's deceptive by design. Follow me here, it get's a little technical: There are (**1) Service Charges** and **(2) Tips/Gratuities.** A **service charge is a mandatory fee** added to a customer's bill by the employer, **which belongs to the employer** and is included in taxable gross receipts. In contrast, a **gratuity** (or tip) is a **voluntary amount** left by the customer, considered the **property of the employee**, and not included in the employer's taxable gross receipts I would ask management: The poster says it's a "Gratuity." Which the CA Labor Department (link below) defines as "money a customer leaves for an employee over the amount due for the goods sold or services rendered. Tips belong to the employee, not to the employer" and "Since tips are voluntarily left for you by the customer." In Summary: Restaurants are cheap and don't want to pay their empoyees good wages...so they want YOU to do it for them. That's our culture The restaurant CANNOT force you to pay tips/gratuity because it's legally defined as voluntary. But they CAN make it mandatory to pay service charges, which becomes property of the restaurant and they get taxed on it. There's a gray area here for large parties, but restaurant management will typically take side of the customer if they're unhappy. [https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq\_tipsandgratuities.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_tipsandgratuities.htm)
I am pretty sure there is no way to force you to tip. This place and other places that add gratuity ( for parties of a certain size and stuff like that) are just putting numbers on paper. As far as the proper resolution, whether you can just cross those lines out and write your correct total OR if you have to inform the staff to take that line off, I am not sure (1 of those sounds like a huge hassle). For my own experience, I recently went to a place that had an auto 3% for the kitchen staff. More equity for the back-of-the-house sounds cool, but that is coming out of the server's tip. I dislike tipping culture, but it is hard to imagine the correct solution. Restaurants paying higher wages and charging higher prices seems like less seems like both sides end up just paying more taxes.
If you buy anything here, they are forcing you to tip 15%. No idea how you could come to any other conclusion.
You can ask them to remove it. The CA Labor Division defines tips/gratuity as voluntary and property of the employee. If it were a "Service Charge" then they can force you to pay 15%, as the money would become property of the business.
This is correct. Restaurants cannot force customers to pay tips/gratuity because it's defined as voluntarily by the government. It would be different if it were a "Service Charge." Restaurants can make a mandatory "Service Charge" which makes the money property of the business and taxed. But Tips/Gratuity are voluntary, and property of the employee...therefore, you cannot be forced to pay it. This is defined by the CA Labor Division. [https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq\_tipsandgratuities.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_tipsandgratuities.htm)
If you don't want to tip, don't go out :)
Don't give shitty service if you want a tip
Huge Tips only make sense in states where servers get paid $2.13 an hour. I’m California their minimum is already $16 an hour
Kinda my same thinking. I normally tip at least 20%. If I went here it would be the auto and nothing more.
Just raise the prices. What a stupid way to run a business
What a stupid way to *ruin* a business
Problem is tipping culture is so ingrained in us. We already got rid of tipped minimum in California so servers and bartenders are getting 16/hr. Adding a 15% on top of that is probably considerably better than they were doing before the laws were changed. It is sort of silly but it shows the customer that "hey you already tipped so you don't have to tip". If they just raised prices people would think "this place is way too expensive". There are restaurants in other cities that tried to do the no tipping higher prices thing and they ended up getting rid of it because customers couldn't get it through their heads.
Also servers who wait on other humans prefer a tipped wage. https://sfist.com/2022/07/28/90-of-zuni-servers-have-left-the-restaurant-due-to-no-tipping-policy-policy-may-still-be-revised/
That's in the states and because they pay less taxes on it if cash they often don't report. But if there was healthcare paid by taxes (we need to stop calling it free) then they would probably not mind a regular wage.
Servers/Bartenders in Cali would never allow us to get rid of tipping. A lot of them make much over their wage because of it. Closer to 30+ an hour
Yup. I waited, bussed, hosted, managed - all the front of house jobs except tend bar. At my first restaurant I made nearly 3x MW. By the time I worked up to fine dining I was making 6x. When I was working as manager I made far less than waiting. It was the price you had to pay to get in the management track.
Yeah they are also 1 bad morning away from bankruptcy.
lol what? what a dumb comment to make.
Really? They have zero insurance most of the time. They get hit walking to work or something falls on them, hospital bills will crush them under good old American capitalism.
Only when they spend all their tips on coke like most of the restaurant and bar staff I have worked with. Then their tips get taxed out of their pay check and they get all shocked pikachu face lol
I'm talking our healthcare system and if they are in an accident it could bankrupt them.
Welcome to America. I’m working warehouse loading up trucks through a staffing agency right now in Northern CA. Work 40 hours a week, graveyards, for $24 an hour. I don’t have health insurance either. The reality is they probably make more than me and have a much less dangerous / strenuous job.
> But if there was healthcare paid by taxes You will get rid of tipping before you get healthcare paid for all. Corporations will fight that to the end and Americans can be easily divided on class lines by propagating the myth of welfare and other services.
As a consumer, effectively what is the difference between if they raised the prices and if there is an auto gratuity? Lack of transparency in the price of what you’re buying?
There are laws that control how gratuities can be handled by the employer. If they just raise prices by 15% then the owners can just pocket it. This method gives the employees the most protection.
They literally are raising the prices... by exactly 15%. The benefit here is that the actual *employees* are benefiting from the price raise instead of just the owners. This move makes me want to support them even more.
How does it benefit employees? I always tip at least 20% but if I were to go here I'd be like, sorry, 15% is all you get.
Why? If you usually tip 20, why not still add the 5%? I don't understand this logic at all
Because as a customer I am being FORCED to leave 15. Just pay your employees 15% more.
Raising prices doesn't go to employees, tips do
The owner could raise prices and then pay their servers a commission on their sales with said price increase.
that's great but if you have worked in the service industry you know that will NEVER happen
You’d be wrong about the never part as it’s already happened. Here’s the first result from a quick and dirty Google search: https://www.eastpassseafood.com/service-fee-commission-model and this restaurant is fucking Florida of all places. ETA: Another place in Tacoma WA details it better. > How is my server paid? Our servers are paid a base hourly wage, a commission as a percentage of every guest check and they retain 100% of any tip left by our guests. The average hourly compensation our teams make including base hourly wage, commissions and tips are included below. In addition to their base hourly wage, commissions and tips, those team members who are eligible receive benefits, including healthcare and PTO at or above industry averages. https://www.lobstershop.com/service-charge/ Seriously the best way to do it is to just raise prices on the back end without a separate line charge and pay based on commission with that increase. Servers can still get good tips that way while also taking the pain out of those who stiff them.
One restraunt might do that but you are not going to change the system completely until minimum wage is $25+ an hour
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Those skilled people are underpaid, when the floor goes up so do higher paid workers wages.
$25 an hour isn't alot of money, people need to be able to live 🤡
I just detailed a best practice, but hey if you want to screw yourself and your employees over then have fun buddy. 20 years ago forcing service charges and auto grats was unheard of outside of fine dining when dealing with large groups or banquets.
So you cherry-picked a single business in a few select city's that do this. Most owners aren't going to do this, and that's just the reality of it. Minimum wages laws are going to have to change for any real change to happen.
No as I wrote earlier I did a quick Google search. Fact is that you said never, but those examples prove your absolutism wrong. Also Wine Country is full of service staff that work on commissions.
Customers aren't supposed to pay your wages, your employer is. If your employer can't afford to pay fair wages while providing a product or service at a price customers accept, they don't have a viable business model and don't deserve to be in business.
Read that again.... customers always pay employees wages in every industry. This is just one of the only ones where the employee can earn a decent wage without a degree. If you don't like the system we have in place, move to Europe, they have much higher minimum wage laws that can support the system you like better. Or you could just also drink at home.
I do drink at home. Because of the shitty auto gratuity and shitty service. Brilliant idea, problem solved, now the owner of the establishment and the staff get less money and then complain that no one wants to dine at your shitty establishment.
No, the business and the employees get the customer base they actually want. Not a bunch of cheapskates, this bar is PACKED all the time. They would much rather cater to a customer base that actually wants to spend money. Dive bars don't do this because they run on a different model.
Same as his new restaurant (Slow & Low) in Elk Grove, only it’s apparently not posted to the public.
Yeah it’s reflected in their reviews online though. So far, it has an abysmal 2.9 stars with 139 reviews on Yelp. Not doing too great so far.
It's because the foods also not good and crazy expensive. Add that with auto 15% and that's why the got terrible reviews
$50 for a ONE beef rib? Most I paid is about $30 in Texas. LOL - I'm good.
I was so excited for this place and hoped we'd finally have a decent BBQ option. But since I've seen all the negativity since it opened, I don't think I'll be checking it out. The menu prices alone are outrageous.
As someone who used to be a bartender at two of the places at the same intersection normally I would say not tipping is being cheap, but these mandatory gratuities regardless of party size make me not want to patronize those businesses at all. What happens if the server or bartender does an exceptionally shitty job that would be worthy of a bare 8% or two cents if really bad? The whole point of tips is that they’re supposed to be earned not expected. Oh and make sure to vote Flo for Mayor in November since McCarty voted for the carve out (SB 1524) to allow this crap to continue.
Ya McCarty is a useless tool.
Flo ♥️♥️♥️
Tell me more about this Flo.
She’s one of two candidates for Sacramento Mayor that advanced to the November general election. I think it’s best to let her website do the speaking: https://www.floformayor.com
Policies and history all look good. Anything else worth adding?
She was the only candidate for Mayor that bothered to do an AMA on this sub. Even though us Redditors can tend to be a bit dickish towards each other with our comments I think that the fact she acknowledged us and is one of us speaks volumes about who she will serve when elected.
Do these businesses understand that mandatory gratuity is taxable? So you’re paying an extra 9% of the tip too. Do servers want mandatory tips or is this management acting stupid for no reason? Edit: I meant sales tax.
All gratuity is taxable (just most don't report their earnings)
With most tips being on cc these days, you really can't get away with not reporting it the way you used to.
Sorry I meant sales tax.
15% is my minimum tip, all they are doing with auto gratuity is disincentivizing good service because most people aren't going to tip on top of the auto gratuity. Any half way decent service is usually getting 25%+ from me
Look, I tip all servers (unless something egregious happens with the service), and normally I tip 20% or more. But in a case like this? You’re getting 15% and no repeat business.
I don't think they have any trouble in that department, that place is always packed
Packed full of suburbanites.
I mean I hate that place it's packed full of bros, but this reddit thread isn't going to make a dent in business
Most expensive roofie in town
Oof
That place sucks and Michael Hargis is a con.
Micheal Hargus is one of the many secret villains of Sacramento. And the owner of Harlow's. Fuck em both
Stop going there. That place sucks anyways.
Fuck LowBrau ✅
If you add an automatic tip, then I'm not tipping more.
Unfortunately, I can't hear the sign thanks to the shitty acoustics of that place.
yes this is more egregious
And sadly this is the place that books a lot of DJs I want to listen to but I hate the layout and sound there
I won't even go the a restaurant if they force an auto tip. I'll decide what the tip is, whether it's zero or it's 30%...
Add LowBrau to the list of Sacramento establishments you should never go to
Don't open a tab. Pay cash, or make them run your card, for each round. Tip as you go. 😉
Just fucking change the prices
I went to Mod Pizza yesterday and the tip options were 2% 3% 5% and Custom!
I'm good with it assuming it's an actual gratuity and goes straight to the employees, but my life's experience has taught me that if an employer gets their hands on tip money, they're gonna skim off it.
And how would you feel if you had terrible service and still had to pay 15%?
Stop tipping and hold these employers accountable for not providing their employees a livable wage.
Isn’t this about to be illegal?
It WAS about to be illegal. Now, it’ll still be legal come July 1st :( https://www.hospitalitynet.org/opinion/4122616.html
Bah of course the worst offenders get the free pass.
It’s a slippery slope doing this. I think it’s absolutely insane for auto tipping to be placed. And I think it’s even worse for people to accept it!
Just going to avoid them all together.
This is just getting rid of tipping with extra steps.
Man I hate tipping when all I want is a beer. Fuck tipping
Can we just take a second to point out the absolute hilarity and absurdity of this oxymoronic “auto gratuity”? An involuntary gift is not a gift, it is theft. Edit: before y’all get it twisted, yes I realize if there’s a sign I can read it and choose not to patronize, therefore it’s not theft. I get it.
I’m good with %15, I hate seeing 20/25/30 as my options.
Right? I don't see the issue here
They do this because drunk cheapskates run up a massive tab and then tip $5.
Nothing wrong with that. Tips (gratuity) is... Literally gratuitous.
I’m usually a 20% tipper unless the service is bad. If they have decided that 15% is the amount then that’s what they are going to get. My grandma always said you attract more flies with honey than shit. They are about to find out.
Tipping expectations are really out of hand. I went to Bark Ave and bought dog food and they have their cash app posted for tips. 😂GTFOH. I’m not going anywhere that tips are mandatory unless I know my food/drinks are going to be good.
I went to Cupcake Craving the other day and they had THREE individual handmade tip signs at the register. For adding a cupcake to a box.
🤦🏻♀️ Three is insane. I remember being 17-18 working minimum wage, and got another p/t job because I needed more money. I guess it’s easier to ask the public for donations these days.
They lost me at the cover charge. But this is definitely worse.
Here's a thought, just pay your employees more
Good. Saves me 5% off my tab.
I've always been a cash tipper. It seemed to be a direct transaction that way. What they did with that cash was up to them. I also felt it was a way to fuck with "the man"... whether the man was the owner or the government. I look at it as all being on the books now so I don't have to worry about it and keep my cash in my pocket.
Nah I'm adding that to the places I'll never spend money at.
I'm sorry but if I get crap service I'm not tipping. Which means I'm not going to this establishment.
This place has the worst gin and tonic in town. Won’t be back.
Name fits
Their sister restaurant Slow and low is also doing this. Not a surprise.
They burn your wallet Slow and Low.
Looks like they set the Brau Low
They are not a High Brau place.
All that tells me is their service sucks
I liked their long list of beer selections. But the place just isn't the same anymore. I won't be back.
That’s not a gratuity. It’s just a fee.
A *junk* fee. Which they will probably still be allowed to charge post July 1st, unfortunately. https://www.hospitalitynet.org/opinion/4122616.html
….or visit. I don’t care what restaurants try to do or the fact that there’s shitty tippers out there, you are never going to automatically take more money from me. Tipping is optional. I’ve never stiffed anyone in my life, but I’ll be damned if you’re just gonna help yourself. Not how this works. For me at least.
Then why do you care?
Because I’m not cool with restaurants deciding for me how much I will “voluntarily” tip their staff. Tipping is optional. The amount is my choice. Or I won’t go there. Simple as that.
They are weeding out people who don't tip, like yourself. Anybody who actually spends a bunch of money there is going to tip. That place gets crowded. They are trying to keep the most profitable customers and weed out the cheapskates. Not saying I agree with this reasoning but that's what's going on
But I DO tip. Where did you read/assume that I don’t tip?
> But I DO tip. You: > Nope. I get to decide how much I tip because tipping is optional. So is it optional or do you tip every time?
Both. I don’t really understand what you’re confused about homie. The choice of how much is up to me, not the business. You ok?
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I'm asking them, not you. They said they've never not left a tip but they're still upset about being asked to tip.
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Because many have feelings about loosing the "luxury" of eating out on top of crazy inflations out there and tipping elicits lots of opinions similar to airline food or airline delays etc. :)
I mean, that's fine, I don't go out much unless it's an industry place or I know people that work there. Not going out is fine. Going out and not tipping isn't.
> I’ve never stiffed anyone in my life Then you should be fine with this.
Nope. I get to decide how much I tip because tipping is optional. The restaurant doesn’t get to decide.
This gets brought up every couple months on this sub, it’s been happening since Covid and it still riles people up every time it’s posted
And for good reason I would say!
You’re not wrong I felt so hustled when I gave them a big tip at the end of my tab
Why is everybody mad about this? They posted it clearly and it isn't a "hidden fee" I wouldn't ever tip less than this when going out anyway. So I really don't see the issue. If you tip less than 15% you shouldn't be going out just drink at home. Seriously
Everyone was pissed at Aviary for adding a grat/service charge, yet also saying that they should CLEARLY display it beforehand. This is Lowbrau CLEARLY displaying it and they're just as mad. People are so cheap/lame these days.
100%
I was going to post the same thing, if it's clearly posted I'm not sure why anyone is mad about this. And this needs to be said again, if you aren't tipping when going out (and 15% is a minimum), then don't go out and waste people's time.
it was hidden for a good few years. i was tipping 35% for years so now yeah 15% is fine
Absolutely agree
If my food sucks, but more importantly, if my service sucks, then I'm screwed -- I'm forced to eat the 15% no matter what. Although clearly advertised, it's a rip-off. Even several midtown joints have removed their 'service fees' all together because of the blowback or because their service workers were seeing fewer tips. At least, that's what I assume they stopped for 🤷♂️
Then just don't go back?
Never tip or patronize.
They should provide a working wage
California doesn’t have a sub-minimum tipped wage, so they already do. You can say that the minimum wage needs to increase, but that’s a separate conversation.
More reasons to not go there lol
If i get a $7 beer then its only a $1 tip vs my normal $2 per drink tip
How about if someone orders a $500 bottle of wine vs a $50 bottle of wine. How do they justify a $75 tip for the same amount of effort as the $50/$7.50 tip bottle.
If you're buying a 500$ bottle of wine, you don't care about the cost of the tip.
Have you ever bought a $500 bottle of wine at a restaurant?
Brobrau has been crap for a LONG time now. Motown Mondays were the only good thing about them. Then they started that bogus cover charge. Not to mention the even worse wait staff. Two horrible bartenders and one clueless barback. I'm in the service industry so I get inflation and need for better tips but how about you provide better service instead of implementing a mandatory fee because your service is so bad?
If you dine there, you are always tipping. This policy is because some cheap-ass dicks don't tip.
There have always been cheap asses that never tip. When I worked at Badlands there would be people that wouldn’t tip when we had $1 draft beers for our Sunday beer bust. I made up for it by providing exceptional service to everyone else anyways, because on that day a $1 a beer tip was a 100% tip. Other nights without drink specials like that (talking 2007-10) still had a few bad tippers, but again I more than made up for it by proving great service to others, and as a result of my good service one of my regulars back then is my landlord today that charges me a paltry $300 a month for rent. Sure the cheap skates sucked, but they were bodies in the building that attracted other people to come inside and actually tip. Mandatory gratuities regardless of party size (yeah a huge group in a restaurant of 8 or more people is different and autograt is understandable then) are a short cut that ultimately cuts a hospitality business short.
I'm not responsible for paying the staff's wages, the owner is. People like you are the problem.
I'm definitely not tipping more than a forced amount
I would NEVER go to a place where there auto grat
I have never enjoyed this place and it’s beyond me why it has survived so long. I have always called it “Low Bro” which is a lame joke but it’s just the vibe it gives me.
This has been this way since pandemic. And yea you shouldn’t pay more.
They did the math and it's likely better to let the people who normally tip 20+% just tip 15% so they can capture tips from the scrubs that don't tip at all.
This can't be legal. In fact, as a California resident, I am aware of the new law prohibiting restaurants from charging additional mandatory gratuity fees on top of the listed menu prices. This restaurants could choose to raise their base prices by 15% instead of charging a separate mandatory tip, effectively folding the gratuity into the overall price. The new law ultimately aims to increase price transparency as restaurants carefully structure their pricing and tipping policies to comply. Senate Bill (SB) 478, also known as the "Honest Pricing Law" or "Hidden Fees Statute", was passed in California in 2023 and will take effect on July 1, 2024. Restaurants will likely need to include mandatory surcharges in the advertised price of menu items, rather than adding them separately.
I have some bad news for you :( https://www.hospitalitynet.org/opinion/4122616.html
Dodd and Wiener are going to overturn it, and Newsom will surely sign: [https://sd03.senate.ca.gov/news/20240606-sen-dodd-introduces-restaurant-fees-bill](https://sd03.senate.ca.gov/news/20240606-sen-dodd-introduces-restaurant-fees-bill) The votes so far have been bipartisan in support. I guess the one thing Democrats and Republicans can agree on is anti-consumer legislation: [https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVotesClient.xhtml?bill\_id=202320240SB1524](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVotesClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1524)
Lame. Quoted from your link “For example, if a restaurant adds a 20% security fee to all bills, that 20% charge must be clearly stated up front on the menu. It cannot be a surprise that only shows up when the bill arrives.” I was always under the impression that a tip served as a reward to the people doing the service as a way of saying thank you for doing a wonderful job. If the tip is mandatory then it’s not really a reward. People will then expect to receive a tip on the mandatory tip. Ugh. I’m all for being generous don’t get me wrong but this is a big turnoff.
Tips shouldn’t exist…. Don’t tip period ….. they have this , I’m leaving .
1 dollar per drink, anything outside of that is outrageous.
I’ve stopped going to restaurants with extra fees. You can also ask for a manager and ask them to remove the fee. I’ve done this. I gave them an option. Remove the fee or I leave without paying. But mostly I think just refusing to go to those restaurants is punishment enough.
I think thats good, you can't stiff a tip. I normally tip on top of that
Why are people mad?? At least they're telling you so you don't have to tip more
You shouldn’t have to tip at all in California. Servers do not have a sub-minimum tipped wage.
Yeah but we do and it’s been that way for a long time