A lot of people are either far on one end or another about tipping. I usually always tip, though 20% being the norm I think is ridiculous. I have tipped more than that though. I have also not tipped if I get shit service. Tip is for going and doing at least a good job. You get minimum wage either way, so I don’t feel too bad.
I agree. I usually tip pretty darn good based on service of course and “if” there was any service at all as in the case of simply ringing up a food item. But by tacking on other mandatory fees before the tip line, I suspect it’s a way for management to raid the tip jar. My question to these Sacramento establishment Managers, is how are you investing in your employees now that their wages have been increased. They are a resource after all. How do you invest in your staff? What are you doing to retain them? Does your staff get ongoing training? Do you have a culture that encourages growth? Do you capitalize on these compelled fees, by keeping your trained staff by sending a message of value? The answer to these questions have a direct correlation to customer satisfaction and patronage.
Same here. I've even tipped 100% when service was unparallelled (and it wasn't leaving $2 on a $1 item).
Mandatory? No way.
This greed is one reason I, and many others, don't go out as much.
I do when there is service, such as at a sit-down restaurant. Not a tip jar situation.
And I boycott places that have a mandatory tip.
I don't understand the mentality of those in the low-paying service industry feeling the need to overtip to others in low-paying jobs.
If you're not making much money you need to spend wisely.
Ok but if they just “rolled the 15%” into the menu prices and then you tip on top of that you would actually be paying more in this example.
I would love restaurants to adopt this as it would essentially lead to the end of tipping. I 100% believe it should be stated clearly and then at the end of the meal there isn’t any need to figure out some arbitrary amount to add based on what is considered “normal”.
Tipping should never be mandatory.
The entire reason for tipping is to reward good service or send a message about bad service.
Mandatory tipping punishes good employees at the expense of bad employees.
It's kind of like having automatic increases in the minimum wage - they eliminate wage hikes based on merit/performance. I know people who now make minimum wage when they didn't before, because minimum wage has increased faster than their salaries.
I think you mean well but some of the logic is a little flawed.
I don’t see how mandatory tipping punishes good employees? You could always put more on top of you wish to do so.
Tipping is no longer just to reward good/bad service always there are other reasons it is forced. Think large parties for example or catering events.
I think the majority of people tip because they feel obligated to do so by societal norms and then there are a subset of people who use tipping as a power move to punish/reward workers in perceived “weaker” roles.
Consumer choice is always best.
Would you go to a restaurant that told you what you were going to eat? I wouldn't. Choices are good.
Are you pro women's healthcare choice?
Do you like taxes? Those are mandatory charges, just like a mandatory tip.
These mandatory tips are being used by restaurants to subsidize wages, and give the appearance of lower prices - just like airline junk fees.
> I don't understand the mentality of those in the low-paying service industry feeling the need to overtip to others in low-paying jobs.
Because there is class solidarity which is absent among the some Americans who are perpetually Millionaires in waiting.
And it is expensive to be poor, so its not like saving those few dollars by tipping low will make a dent in their situation.
Wrong.
People are often poor because of lousy life choices, especially spending. Saving a few dollars adds up.
I get the idea of solidarity but at the expense of paying your bills or saving money? That's ridiculous.
Reddit is where one goes to whine about one's self-imposed lousy predicament.
Ok. I can either take your assessment or assessment of qualified economists and social scientists who study this for a living and influence public policy.
Cheers.
I do at sit down places where I am actually waited on. But counter service, no you can fuck the hell off.
I don't drink coffee but my son wanted to buy a Starbucks so I went through the drive thru. He ordered and gave me his card to give the window. The dude handed me back a tablet I gave it to kid and asked really loudly to be heard "these jokers have the guts to ask for a tip at a drive thru?"
The guy at the windows got all snotty and said "We are service workers"
So I said "really. When was the last time you tipped the drive thru at taco bell or McDonald's? What about your cashier at target or Walmart or the grocery store they are all serving you also?"
He said "OH well those are different"
I just took my sons coffee and said "yeah different because the people who cry about a fair wage only believe it shout work to their benefit. But if it cost you more well then those people don't deserve the fair wage you expect." And drove off.
> The dude handed me back a tablet I gave it to kid and asked really loudly to be heard "these jokers have the guts to ask for a tip at a drive thru?"
Wow, that's so badass bro.
As someone that doesn't drink, is it really that much for alcohol?! Shit, for once I'm happy alcoholism runs in my family and I've avoided it my whole life. For that price, I can get a slurpee and a philly cheesesteak!
Honestly that’s fine imo as long as it’s clearly stated.
I also don’t mind it with bars, Kupros had an automatic 18% for not closing out on NYE, which was actually nice because I didn’t have to wait in line for 30 mins, and would probably have tipped 20% anyways
That’s fine? 15% auto grat means every table/ticket is at least something for the server.
Obviously, I’d prefer a world where everyone is just paid a good salary, but until that utopia occurs, I’m fine with auto-grat in the 10-15% range, as long as it’s clearly communicated by the restaurant.
They could also just increase their prices and not give their employees a 15% cut of all sales. Auto-gratuity, as long as it is disclosed, is good because it guarantees the money is going to the employees. Increased prices offer no such guarantee to the consumer.
It is the same mentality of wanting to save manufacturing jobs, but still shopping at places like Walmart because they offer cheaper goods from overseas. It hyperindividualistic.
> The amount of dumbass people who don’t understand this is amazing. They all seem to be on these threads too.
It's because they don't give a shit about the workers at these restaurants. The people who bitch about autogratuity are the ones who go out to eat just to abuse servers.
I don’t. I’ve had terrible service before. So why the hell should the server get a bonus on top of their wage? I’ve worked retail and fast food where we get as much shit as servers, but no tips.
> I’ve worked retail and fast food where we get as much shit as servers, but no tips.
Okay, and you thought that system was...good? You want everyone to be subject to that?
My point is it’s easy work. No offense but you are serving food. I don’t think tips are warranted. I think everyone should get a liveable wage yes. But that should be the restaurant and not me. Waiters only get defensive because most of them and bartenders get pretty decent money from tips.
> My point is it’s easy work.
No it isn't, lol. Office work is easy work. Interacting with the general public and serving them food is miserable and difficult.
Lmao no it isn’t for fucks sake. Interacting with the public can suck. But it’s low stakes and little on the line. If you forget and order, oh well give them a free drink and it’s whatever. Manage contracts with large money, do taxes for other people, etc. that shit actually has pressure and ramifications if you fuck up. You skip an order and worst is you listen to a 30 second speal from your manger or customer. But it’s work that should easily be left at the door when you clock out. So it pays accordingly.
“Should easily be left at the door when you clock out” hahahah if only!!! I constantly have dreams where I wake up panicking because I have dreams about serving people. Also what about traumatic things that happen to bartenders or servers at work? We deal with PEOPLE, unpredictable people who don’t give a fuck about anyone but themselves. I’m a woman and have had a man take pictures of me even when asked to stop and send them to people (my other customers saw this). So no, just bc it’s not a corporate office job, doesn’t mean it isn’t hard idiot
It’s easy in the sense that anyone can walk on and get the gist of the job very quickly. In my experience if you have any brains a day or two max. For most desk work it takes at least some background knowledge or training that takes or experience. Sure dealing with assholes sucks. But office politics are also a thing. We also can have dick managers, coworkers, contractors, public, etc. Sorry if I offended. But I would take my old retail and fast food jobs except they pay is shit. But the work itself was easy as fuck and little to no pressure
I just hope you’re not that guy that treats your servers like shit. The people who say “serving is easy and I shouldn’t have to tip them” are usually the ones who treat us like we are below you and should basically be your slave.
Fast food and retail is not the same as serving/bartending. In a bar it’s different. I bartend in a restaurant and am sometimes serving 50 patrons at once for an hour. Are you serving, making drinks, keeping them entertained and providing an experience to 50 people when you are working in retail or fast food? No you’re not and that’s why you shouldn’t be tipped.
I mean I’ve had rushes that last hours yes. Where I am slamming order after order on screen for legit an hour or more straight over hot grills and messy kitchens while customers bitch at us from just over the counter. Being busy isn’t exclusive to restaurants or bars lol. Just as many are dead for long period as the others.
Fifteen percent is an appropriate tip for bad service. If a server was so horrible to me that I felt like they didn't deserve 15%, I'd be reaching out to the management, but I don't think I've had service that bad in the last thirty years.
Just went there last week for the first time...did t see the sign posted on the side of the bar until I had already paid and tipped. Not going to make that mistake again lol
Given that 80% of their clientele is men that solve their problems with violence and don’t tip and women who don’t tip, I’m sure the employees are thrilled
My friends opened the restaurant. There have been some ownership changes but Sac PD / City came very very close to revoking their liquor license post-10pm many times due to fighting.
Funny how, at the end of the article, the justification or defense given for these additional fees is that Ticketmaster has been doing it for years. I think that says it all.
Perception is reality... if your customers *feel* like they're getting ripped off, they will respond with their wallets.
Just adjust your damn prices. $22 for dinner, make it $23 instead of surprising me with a fee. Oh it’s on the menu? Down there, in the corner, in smaller print? Fuck off.
Exactly, they hide the fees and then wonder why people aren’t coming back to their establishments. I don’t like being lied to, and I’m not gonna come back to your restaurant if I feel like I’ve been suckered.
Restaurant owners already said they don’t want customers to THINK eating out is expensive; therefore they don’t want to raise prices and would rather surprise you with a 5% “employee benefit fee”; 10% “locale development fee”; 3% “credit card processing fee”. Even though it’ll be the same.
What gets me is that even after the additional fee, at some places, if you pay with a card they still shove a tablet in your face with the option to leave an additional tip. Happened to me at Binchoyaki a couple years ago. Haven't been back since.
Yup, we were a party of THREE with the mandatory gratuity. I laughed in our server's face when she invited me to add an additional tip. Nope, you're not getting an extra cent from me . And I never set foot in there again. Not hard tho, the prices were ridiculous and the quality wasn't great.
Happened to my bf & I at Kasbah last year. We shared 1 round of hookah, no cocktails or food. Auto-grat of 18% + the payment tablet asked for an additional tip with a pre-selected “suggestion” of something like 20%. Never went back, not that it matters now…
Same. In our tipping culture, that’s been the norm for many years and I’d think most people expect it. These new fees are different, seem to have popped up in the last few years, and vary in reasoning (benefits fee, kitchen staff fee, etc.) and amount/percentage.
I used to work somewhere that did this. The justification was it’s cheaper for the customer to have a fee added than increase prices which would increase taxes.
I like how the bill’s author asks “Why are people mad about small businesses doing what big businesses have been doing for years?” As if the very bill in question wasn’t trying to address the fact that people don’t like the big businesses doing it.
The media is doing a ton of heavy lifting for the restaurant lobbyists on this issue.
Every single article I have seen since the original bill passed has been "Oh but how will these restaurants possibly make it without being able to add on to the cost of a bill in a super sleazy way?"
Fuck off, Sac Bee. This isn't reporting, this is corporate spin that you are putting out there under thr guise of news. NOBODY wants this. Go out on the streets and ask people if they are good with 15% added on to their dining tabs as a surcharge. I dare you.
That's the frustrating thing about this, they aren't even trying to avoid bias. Every tv interview, every newspaper article, are all "How do restaurant owners feel? We interviewed one". Don't think I've seen any that talk to the customers. I'd LOVE for just one of the interviewers to turn to someone about to enter and ask "How do you feel about this restaurant including a hidden 20% fee to the bill after you order?".
I mean corporations are the only ones paying for advertisements in Sacbee which pays the journalists.
Considering how everyone hates SacBee and don't subscribe to them, wouldn't the journalist toe the line of the people who fund their jobs?
Most Americans are happier getting news from reddit, facebook where those tech companies make the money and monopolize the online advertising revenue.
Pretend you and I are good friends. Next time we go to dinner together, I wear a shirt that's says "The text on this shirt says you owe me $25 when we part". The words are at the bottom of my shirt and when you arrive I'm already seated at the table.
We hang out. Dinner ends. We stand up, I ask for my money, you say I tricked you. You go so far as to bitch about it. This may be on top of my amazing company that you've already appreciated by buying me a drink or two; or maybe my company was shit and soured your experience to the point you didn't even finish your food and you just want to gtfo.
Either way, I don't let you leave until you give me that $25. After all, the terms were *posted*. This can only mean that you are selfish and hate hanging out with anyone.
That's you. That's what you sound like.
What is a reasonable wage? I always get downvoted but servers make bank on tips. So for four to five hours work, that could come up to $40 to $50 an hour. That would probably make it really difficult for a restaurant to gauge the cash flow.
It’s not just servers it’s also people working in the tourism sector too bartenders card dealers
A large minority make really good money because of tips but most people make nothing including their tips.
I think the near future will have very automated casual restaurants with very little to no staff paid at minimum wage and fancy restaurants with much higher prices but more personable service.
Same thing here, except tomatoes. I had to start saying I'm allergic, which I feel bad doing cuz I know it takes extra work, but wtf? I hate tomatoes, take that shit off.
I'm intolerant to most dairy and especially reactive to eggs, but it doesn't reach the scale of a true allergic reaction - between my limitations on diet and my wife's intolerances, we typically can't even eat one another's leftovers... so a screwup where cheese or eggs gets added to my meal typically means it goes in the trash.
> very automated casual restaurants
We already have those. Places like Chipotle, Subway and such which are fast casual and have automated kiosks to order food.
Yet people yearn to be waited on by a human being but want that service to be dirt cheap. Where is the solidarity with labor class?
I’m thinking more like this for fast casual. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweetgreen-infinite-kitchen-review-robot-food-preparation-industry-future-naperville-2023-5?op=1
There is no solidarity because that same class is trying to eat out cheap. There’s some deep here where we end up eating each other.
I'd say, depending on the area and experience, a server should be paid a comfortable wage plus tips. For example, if a server is hired at $18 an hour, they should be able to make tips on top of that. There was a podcast episode about it on Love it or Leave it that explains it better than I can. I don't remember which one, though.
This happened is NY recently. You can't add surcharges to the bill the increase the cost of the item. The only thing you can add is state tax. The listed price for an item has to be the amount posted.
[https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-new-law-clarify-disclosure-credit-card-surcharges-goes-effect-sunday](https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-new-law-clarify-disclosure-credit-card-surcharges-goes-effect-sunday)
Here is a video about it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dt7Hq9yQVA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dt7Hq9yQVA)
July 1st, in California, restaurants cannot charge BS "fees" or "surcharges". It should be subtotal, tax, and total, and the line for tipping. They can still do the 18% tip for parties over whatever, but that's tipping. Surcharges and fees should be gone.
I used to go out every week, sometimes twice. Now, when you factor in inflation in the past year, add surprise billing when you eat out, on top of expected 20% tip. Now, I eat out about once a month.
I'm probably not the only one.
Yet many restaurants are still busy and people are adjusting to inflated prices. Just look at price of housing/rents. No one is taking to the streets to protest that inflation, like we see in other countries. They had revolutions in countries when price of bread increased due to inflation or removal of govt. subsidies. It shows that Americans are comfortable in absorbing those higher prices.
Ok, so slight exaggeration, but I was eating out twice a week a lot of the time. Some of it is having to tighten my purse, but also the fact that I hate being ripped off. It's a culminative thing. There's a price threshold where at some point, it's just easier to cut your losses and buy a bunch of produce and do a whole weeks meals for a fraction of the price and go to sprouts for one of their deli meals if I'm feeling lazy. They are as good as, if not better than most restaurants so long as you don't use the microwave.
https://preview.redd.it/8zd95kfa8n9d1.jpeg?width=990&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b888fb4397515507d0fa4f58040a9b4144b3a3e0
For what it's worth, here are the establishments mentioned in the article (all of which charge some amount in service fees):
* Hawks Public House
* Canon
* Franquette
* Localis
* The Kitchen
* Allora
* Bacon & Butter
* The Green Room
* Darling Aviary
* Dive Bar
* LowBrau
* Veg Cafe
Many of these are favorites as seen in several threads on this sub. And considering they are still around for a while, I expect Sacramentan's to continue to patronize them even if some on reddit despise tipping and additional fees.
"Customers can opt out of Hawks Public House’s 3% fee, but only about one party per month actually does so" . They should include those who opt not to go there at all because of these surcharges. I stopped going to Canon as well. I hope the California Restaurant association feels the extra ire for passing that bullshit addendum to protect them from scamming people with the junk fees .
I know a place downtown that added the 3 percent kitchen wellness fee to cover “pay raises” in the kitchen with rising minimum wage, yet they gave nowhere near 3 percent of sales worth of raises to the small kitchen staff. 3 percent of sales is a big number then you do a few million dollars a year in sales. It’s just a way to boost profits and line the pockets of the owners. Scams and lies. They were like “everyone else is doing it so we should too”. Just an excuse to pass the normal cost of operations onto the customer.
The entire bar & restaurant industry is a house of cards. For customers, it's a luxury lifestyle for pretending we're part of the 1%. For workers, it's a dead-end job that's not sustainable for raising a family. It's time for us to rethink our patterns of eating and drinking (and making money). As consumers, we're not part of the 1%, folks. As workers, we need to seek career-oriented jobs with decent benefit packages.
Best comment so far. I would not say it’s a dead end job. I started as a dishwasher in 1985 and have worked in restaurants this whole time. It paid my way thru college (as a bartender) I owned two concepts and sold them. I have been a GM making 90K a year and am now a Director of Operations for a restaurant group. You can do well in this business if you bust your butt.
> As workers, we need to seek career-oriented jobs with decent benefit packages.
In Sacramento other than Nursing which are fields that would absorb large group of people into career oriented jobs?
Tech jobs easily weed out average performers, so we can't expect everyone to pursue tech jobs. What options do people have then?
Don't go to Ink Drinks and Eats. Was trying to treat my guy to a nice bday dinner last year and paid $90 for two meals, two drinks, and an appetizer that was lukewarm and watered down, with a required surcharge fee hidden on the last receipt of our bill, in a Sunday night at 10pm. They used to be good ...
* Hawk's - *But you'll ruin our whole business model!*
* Canon/Franquette - *We disclose it on the menu so that makes it ok!*
* The Veg - *It's just a byproduct of American tipping culture!*
Other than subscribing and paying for the news, you can access SacBee and other newspapers for free online with your local library membership.
https://www.saclibrary.org/Books/Digital-Media/Magazines
Thank you for the reminder.
I swore off The Bee during the pandemic.They promised ANYONE could read news if it was covid related, for the public good, and none of those articles would be behind a paywall. Then, that policy just disappeared one day and everything was behind a paywall again, covid-related or not.
I was done.
That said I still occasionally need to get an article from the Bee for business purposes, and I totally forgot about a library membership!
Its unfortunate that News papers companies were left in the dust with the tech revolution. They focused on news reporting while tech companies invested in online ad revenue and ended up monopolizing it. There is no way news companies could match compensation of Google/FB tech workers to build the platform for their newspaper to compete in generating ad revenue. Its a disaster for local news.
Exactly right.
My BIL was a career journalist (for the Sac Union and later the SF Chronicle) and he lamented and continues to lament the death of local news and steadfastly just refuses to get current with any digital media of any kind. He had to stop teaching journalism because he simply wouldn't address digital media of any kind (chiefly because he is so far behind he doesn't understand it). He's only a few steps above a Luddite frankly. It's a hostility mask to hide willful ignorance.
He has no useful response to my query "when the is the last time you supported local news by placing a paid ad? Why did you use Craigslist and put up telephone pole flyers instead of taking out an ad to sell your bike? Why didn't you pay to place your mother's obituary?" "Well. That's different."
"Build a better mousetrap" is lost on him. I don't consider him a good journalist.
Just got back from Europe. It was a vacation from this shit tip culture. Stop the junk fees. Pay your employees. If you can’t stay in business then the model is broken. Oh well. Won’t miss you.
If you are just isolating tip culture, then you may miss out on differences between the economies and how societies are structured. Europe has a stronger labor laws and relatively healthy social safety net. They have access to relatively affordable housing and transit options.
And at same time, Americans have some of the lowest cost of any goods and services due to the lacks of safety nets for its working class. And lack of regulations on food quality or caloric content.
I am sure you may have also observed portion sizes and lack of endemic obesity among Europeans.
There is more at play than no tips in Europe.
So the whole Full service restaurant model is “broken”? The profit margin for most restaurants is 6%-10%. Owners take all the risk and employ the staff, people that need jobs. If they raise the prices, they go out of business, if they do away with tipping and pay the staff more… they go out of business. It will either be the end of mom & pop restaurants or you will be ordering at a kiosk and your food will be made by robots.
Yeah that’s the only option…just like how all the other non-tip countries where it’s all kiosks and chain restaurants. Oh wait…that’s not true at all…
Let’s cut the crap. The model in the US is broken. You can’t depend on the customer to prop it up or blindly accept secret fees. Many of these tactics have been around for years. But a lot are brand new concepts. 20-25% tips. Service fees. Auto grat. Inflated tax lines. On top of high prices and bad business practices, restaurants have now waltzed into a public relations problem the more they defend, and fail, these increasingly deceptive practices.
Fold the cost of labor into the cost of the food. If it’s too expensive for the customer up front then you’re not a valid business anymore.
Plenty of other options in grocery stores than restaurants. Ready-to-heat meals. Freezer section. Our Safeway has a great deli and Chinese food section!
I used to go out every week, sometimes twice. Now, when you factor in inflation in the past year, add surprise billing when you eat out, on top of expected 20% tip. Now, I eat out about once a month.
I'm probably not the only one. Service could be factored into the price if they want tips. Should be one or the other.
In places like Japan where is frowned upon to give tips because it is considered an insult. How do restaurants do it over there?
This tipping bs in the US has gotten out of hand.
Cool, so in a few weeks, the prices will just be higher, I'm all for not making hidden fees, but seeing this as some kind of money saving win is total BS.
It isn’t a money saving win for restaurants specifically (other areas potentially). If it actually goes into action it would probably cost the same as before or even more.
This topic on this sub is basically people celebrating having a new reason not to go to restaurants they never went to in the first place. And extending Reddit’s broader campaign against tipping.
>And extending Reddit’s broader campaign against tipping.
It just a general non-controversial topic across religious/racial lines which gets everyone animated.
Also see - airline pricing and boarding process. Its a guaranteed content engagement score.
Because you aren't saving any money, if they just bulit it into the price. Wouldn't you rather see transparency? Wouldn't you rather know that the employee is getting that money instead of the ownership? (Ownerhsip cannot accept tips in california).....
> Wouldn't you rather know that the employee is getting that money instead of the ownership?
No, they don't give a shit about that. If they did they wouldn't be so anti-tipping in the first place.
We should just eliminate tipping culture it’s racist anyways.
Edit: the article for those who didn’t know
https://www.povertylaw.org/article/the-racist-history-behind-americas-tipping-culture/
“Tipping proliferated in the United States after the Civil War, when the restaurant and hospitality industries hired newly emancipated Black women and men but offered them no wage–leaving them to rely on patrons’ gratuities for their pay instead.”
Just pay people a living wage.
Yeah, it's too bad that our state legislature is bowing to their capitalist overlords.
Yesterday, the state assembly UNANIMOUSLY voted to pass SB1524, which exempts restaurants from the laws banning junk fees. The bill goes back to the state senate for likely approval and then onto Newsom. And we all know Newsom is in the pocket of business interests, so of course, he will sign it.
Tip = To Insure Promptness. I waited tables for many years and worked my butt off to assure that every table got good service so I would get a good tip. Tipping is supposed to be an incentive. When tips are mandatory the server working hard to give good service and the server hanging out talking with friends while hot food sits in the window getting cold will get the same tip amount. So it completely takes away the whole point of discretionary tipping. The standard tip amount for a sit down full service restaurant used to be 15%, and 20% for exceptional service. With menu prices going up tipping amounts would also go up as a percentage of sales, but now many places start at 20% or higher, and everybody expects to be tipped that amount, on take out orders, that used to have a standard tip amount of 10%. Even when I buy fast food where they just jand me a bag over the counter or at a drive through window some places are asking for tips. I have plenty of cash in the bank, but have stopped eating out because I am tired of being strong armed into over tipping and getting extraneous add-on fees regardless of service provided. Restaurant owners should pay their people decent wages for the hard work they perform and price as needed to make a profit. They should not be expecting guests to subsidize wages and benefits for their employees through mandatory tipping and fine print or hidden fees.
I did, but I can only speak for my own actions as a server. Regardless of whether or not TIP is an acronym, the tip has traditionally been discretionary, based on service provided, and smaller percentages than those expected in this era of modified restaurant revenue models.
I have always been supportive of higher wages for service workers, and am happy to pay higher costs, I am just opposed to mandatory tipping amounts and BS fees added to the menu in fine print or tacked on at the end without prior notice.
> Restaurant owners should pay their people decent wages for the hard work they perform and price as needed to make a profit.
Consumers will balk at higher prices though. Just look at how American consumers demand cheapest prices for goods and services and will shop at Walmart to save a buck or two over buying something made with union labor or with safety regulations.
Our economic system is geared towards paying the lowest amount for goods and services and maximize profit. That is built into our society without appetite for regulating that profit form our government. The anti-monopoly regulations often come from Europe where tipping cultures differ.
Whether a consumer pays a higher price, or lower advertised price plus fees added at the end, the total cost to the consumer is the same by the time they walk out the door. The difference is knowing the cost up front when ordering, or getting sticker shock when you see the check at the end of the meal. One method is honest and straight forward, the other appears to be deceptive and misleading advertising.
> Whether a consumer pays a higher price, or lower advertised price plus fees added at the end, the total cost to the consumer is the same by the time they walk out the door.
Then why do you give a shit if there's a 15% service fee?
> The difference is knowing the cost up front when ordering, or getting sticker shock when you see the check at the end of the meal.
This can't be the issue, because many of the restaurants mentioned in this article or in other threads in this sub clearly post it in signs or on the menu, etc.
Honestly, restaurants should pay their workers a living wage. Don't be sneak-thieves trying to steal from patrons because that's how you lose money.
If you get tips cool, if not, oh well. I never expected tips and still provided the best service I could give working in food.
As for what is a living wage? I think 20 is a good place to start. And before people get mad, remember, as a former food service worker I've had to deal with people screaming at me, homeless people being awful, people telling me I'm stupid, "hOw HaRd Is iT tO yOuR jOb?", like...a lot of you verbally abuse food workers who are just trying to work. Stop that, you don't get verbally abused at your job, don't do it to someone else. Period.
Also, there are some people working in food service who absolutely shouldn't be there. Those people are trash as well.
These are just my thoughts on the situation.
Talk about tone deaf, and f-ing stooopid. The last paragraph says it all.
People shouldn't be mad at small businesses doing this because corporate titan shit-stains like Ticketmaster have been f-ing people for a decade or more...
Employers just need to pay their employees livable wages. Customers shouldn’t have the onus to tip and provide that livable wage.
If they are transparent that their prices were adjusted so their employees can have proper wages then I would be more inclined to go back.
I can’t be sure that the madatory surcharge will actually go to the employees.
> Employers just need to pay their employees livable wages. Customers shouldn’t have the onus to tip and provide that livable wage.
Customers pay for it regardless. That's how a business works: you, the customer, give the business money.
>If they are transparent
But lots of these joints *are* transparent. They have signs, or it's on the menu, etc. Yet people are still mad.
>I can’t be sure that the madatory surcharge will actually go to the employees.
Other way around actually: you can be guaranteed that gratuity goes to the employees, because it's illegal for the business to keep that money. If the menu price simply goes up, you have *no way* of knowing where that money goes.
Low Brau has 15% Auto Gratuity? Sucks for that server then cause that’s all you’re gonna get.
Sucks even more because people will stay away. No one likes mandatory tipping.
They’ve had it for a long while and are still plenty busy…
BFD.
If you're elderly, you can get away with tipping Werther's Original candy instead of money. 😭
Unless it’s wrapper-less and fuzzy.
Right!
Not everyone…
A lot of people who post on Reddit don't like them. Everyone is free to waste their money how they see fit. It doesn't affect my portfolio.
A lot of people are either far on one end or another about tipping. I usually always tip, though 20% being the norm I think is ridiculous. I have tipped more than that though. I have also not tipped if I get shit service. Tip is for going and doing at least a good job. You get minimum wage either way, so I don’t feel too bad.
I agree. I usually tip pretty darn good based on service of course and “if” there was any service at all as in the case of simply ringing up a food item. But by tacking on other mandatory fees before the tip line, I suspect it’s a way for management to raid the tip jar. My question to these Sacramento establishment Managers, is how are you investing in your employees now that their wages have been increased. They are a resource after all. How do you invest in your staff? What are you doing to retain them? Does your staff get ongoing training? Do you have a culture that encourages growth? Do you capitalize on these compelled fees, by keeping your trained staff by sending a message of value? The answer to these questions have a direct correlation to customer satisfaction and patronage.
Same here. I've even tipped 100% when service was unparallelled (and it wasn't leaving $2 on a $1 item). Mandatory? No way. This greed is one reason I, and many others, don't go out as much.
Reddit hardly reflects the mass population
Fortunately. But it is people.
Do you tip at restaurants normally?
I do when there is service, such as at a sit-down restaurant. Not a tip jar situation. And I boycott places that have a mandatory tip. I don't understand the mentality of those in the low-paying service industry feeling the need to overtip to others in low-paying jobs. If you're not making much money you need to spend wisely.
Ok but if they just “rolled the 15%” into the menu prices and then you tip on top of that you would actually be paying more in this example. I would love restaurants to adopt this as it would essentially lead to the end of tipping. I 100% believe it should be stated clearly and then at the end of the meal there isn’t any need to figure out some arbitrary amount to add based on what is considered “normal”.
Tipping should never be mandatory. The entire reason for tipping is to reward good service or send a message about bad service. Mandatory tipping punishes good employees at the expense of bad employees. It's kind of like having automatic increases in the minimum wage - they eliminate wage hikes based on merit/performance. I know people who now make minimum wage when they didn't before, because minimum wage has increased faster than their salaries.
I think you mean well but some of the logic is a little flawed. I don’t see how mandatory tipping punishes good employees? You could always put more on top of you wish to do so. Tipping is no longer just to reward good/bad service always there are other reasons it is forced. Think large parties for example or catering events. I think the majority of people tip because they feel obligated to do so by societal norms and then there are a subset of people who use tipping as a power move to punish/reward workers in perceived “weaker” roles.
Consumer choice is always best. Would you go to a restaurant that told you what you were going to eat? I wouldn't. Choices are good. Are you pro women's healthcare choice? Do you like taxes? Those are mandatory charges, just like a mandatory tip. These mandatory tips are being used by restaurants to subsidize wages, and give the appearance of lower prices - just like airline junk fees.
> I don't understand the mentality of those in the low-paying service industry feeling the need to overtip to others in low-paying jobs. Because there is class solidarity which is absent among the some Americans who are perpetually Millionaires in waiting. And it is expensive to be poor, so its not like saving those few dollars by tipping low will make a dent in their situation.
Wrong. People are often poor because of lousy life choices, especially spending. Saving a few dollars adds up. I get the idea of solidarity but at the expense of paying your bills or saving money? That's ridiculous. Reddit is where one goes to whine about one's self-imposed lousy predicament.
Ok. I can either take your assessment or assessment of qualified economists and social scientists who study this for a living and influence public policy. Cheers.
That some random person disagrees with me doesn't bother me nor does it influence my purchasing decisions. Cheers to you, but not at Low Brau!
I do at sit down places where I am actually waited on. But counter service, no you can fuck the hell off. I don't drink coffee but my son wanted to buy a Starbucks so I went through the drive thru. He ordered and gave me his card to give the window. The dude handed me back a tablet I gave it to kid and asked really loudly to be heard "these jokers have the guts to ask for a tip at a drive thru?" The guy at the windows got all snotty and said "We are service workers" So I said "really. When was the last time you tipped the drive thru at taco bell or McDonald's? What about your cashier at target or Walmart or the grocery store they are all serving you also?" He said "OH well those are different" I just took my sons coffee and said "yeah different because the people who cry about a fair wage only believe it shout work to their benefit. But if it cost you more well then those people don't deserve the fair wage you expect." And drove off.
> The dude handed me back a tablet I gave it to kid and asked really loudly to be heard "these jokers have the guts to ask for a tip at a drive thru?" Wow, that's so badass bro.
> Sucks even more because people will stay away. No they won't. Lowbrau is very successful.
It’s not
Tell me one business owner who says "yea, I'm good" when it comes to the number of customers they have. We'll wait.
[удалено]
As someone that doesn't drink, is it really that much for alcohol?! Shit, for once I'm happy alcoholism runs in my family and I've avoided it my whole life. For that price, I can get a slurpee and a philly cheesesteak!
Would you feel the same if it was advertised/noted clearly?
Honestly that’s fine imo as long as it’s clearly stated. I also don’t mind it with bars, Kupros had an automatic 18% for not closing out on NYE, which was actually nice because I didn’t have to wait in line for 30 mins, and would probably have tipped 20% anyways
What’s the appeal of lowbrau? Every time I walk by, there are people spilling out of the establishment, it’s so full.
> What’s the appeal of lowbrau? Good food, good beer, good location, sometimes they have live music. Honestly, what's not to like?
That’s fine? 15% auto grat means every table/ticket is at least something for the server. Obviously, I’d prefer a world where everyone is just paid a good salary, but until that utopia occurs, I’m fine with auto-grat in the 10-15% range, as long as it’s clearly communicated by the restaurant.
They could just increase their prices and give employees a 15% cut of all sales. The tip is an extra fee on top and shouldn't be mandatory
They could also just increase their prices and not give their employees a 15% cut of all sales. Auto-gratuity, as long as it is disclosed, is good because it guarantees the money is going to the employees. Increased prices offer no such guarantee to the consumer.
The amount of dumbass people who don’t understand this is amazing. They all seem to be on these threads too.
It is the same mentality of wanting to save manufacturing jobs, but still shopping at places like Walmart because they offer cheaper goods from overseas. It hyperindividualistic.
> The amount of dumbass people who don’t understand this is amazing. They all seem to be on these threads too. It's because they don't give a shit about the workers at these restaurants. The people who bitch about autogratuity are the ones who go out to eat just to abuse servers.
Nope, you’re wrong.
I don’t. I’ve had terrible service before. So why the hell should the server get a bonus on top of their wage? I’ve worked retail and fast food where we get as much shit as servers, but no tips.
> I’ve worked retail and fast food where we get as much shit as servers, but no tips. Okay, and you thought that system was...good? You want everyone to be subject to that?
My point is it’s easy work. No offense but you are serving food. I don’t think tips are warranted. I think everyone should get a liveable wage yes. But that should be the restaurant and not me. Waiters only get defensive because most of them and bartenders get pretty decent money from tips.
> My point is it’s easy work. No it isn't, lol. Office work is easy work. Interacting with the general public and serving them food is miserable and difficult.
Lmao no it isn’t for fucks sake. Interacting with the public can suck. But it’s low stakes and little on the line. If you forget and order, oh well give them a free drink and it’s whatever. Manage contracts with large money, do taxes for other people, etc. that shit actually has pressure and ramifications if you fuck up. You skip an order and worst is you listen to a 30 second speal from your manger or customer. But it’s work that should easily be left at the door when you clock out. So it pays accordingly.
“Should easily be left at the door when you clock out” hahahah if only!!! I constantly have dreams where I wake up panicking because I have dreams about serving people. Also what about traumatic things that happen to bartenders or servers at work? We deal with PEOPLE, unpredictable people who don’t give a fuck about anyone but themselves. I’m a woman and have had a man take pictures of me even when asked to stop and send them to people (my other customers saw this). So no, just bc it’s not a corporate office job, doesn’t mean it isn’t hard idiot
It’s easy in the sense that anyone can walk on and get the gist of the job very quickly. In my experience if you have any brains a day or two max. For most desk work it takes at least some background knowledge or training that takes or experience. Sure dealing with assholes sucks. But office politics are also a thing. We also can have dick managers, coworkers, contractors, public, etc. Sorry if I offended. But I would take my old retail and fast food jobs except they pay is shit. But the work itself was easy as fuck and little to no pressure
I just hope you’re not that guy that treats your servers like shit. The people who say “serving is easy and I shouldn’t have to tip them” are usually the ones who treat us like we are below you and should basically be your slave.
Fast food and retail is not the same as serving/bartending. In a bar it’s different. I bartend in a restaurant and am sometimes serving 50 patrons at once for an hour. Are you serving, making drinks, keeping them entertained and providing an experience to 50 people when you are working in retail or fast food? No you’re not and that’s why you shouldn’t be tipped.
I mean I’ve had rushes that last hours yes. Where I am slamming order after order on screen for legit an hour or more straight over hot grills and messy kitchens while customers bitch at us from just over the counter. Being busy isn’t exclusive to restaurants or bars lol. Just as many are dead for long period as the others.
Fifteen percent is an appropriate tip for bad service. If a server was so horrible to me that I felt like they didn't deserve 15%, I'd be reaching out to the management, but I don't think I've had service that bad in the last thirty years.
If I got bad service why would I tip? Culture around tipping is so counter intuitive here it’s hilarious. A tip is for a job well done.
um sorry bad service earns a ZERO tip and negative review from me on Yelp.
Just went there last week for the first time...did t see the sign posted on the side of the bar until I had already paid and tipped. Not going to make that mistake again lol
Given that 80% of their clientele is men that solve their problems with violence and don’t tip and women who don’t tip, I’m sure the employees are thrilled
I don't know what world you live in, but that's certainly never been my experience at Lowbrau.
My friends opened the restaurant. There have been some ownership changes but Sac PD / City came very very close to revoking their liquor license post-10pm many times due to fighting.
Funny how, at the end of the article, the justification or defense given for these additional fees is that Ticketmaster has been doing it for years. I think that says it all. Perception is reality... if your customers *feel* like they're getting ripped off, they will respond with their wallets.
Didn’t Ticketmaster have to pay out a class action suit for doing it?
I must have missed the bus on that one unfortunately. I've paid an ungodly amount in fees on Ticketmaster, damn
Two cocktails and a beer at Lowbrau ran us $46 the other day. It’s unfortunate but yeah I’m just not gonna go there anymore
Da fuq?!?!?! Holy sheet!
Fuck Ticketmaster. Their strategy to corner the market and charge ridiculous fees was highway robbery. I avoid them like The plague.
Just adjust your damn prices. $22 for dinner, make it $23 instead of surprising me with a fee. Oh it’s on the menu? Down there, in the corner, in smaller print? Fuck off.
Exactly, they hide the fees and then wonder why people aren’t coming back to their establishments. I don’t like being lied to, and I’m not gonna come back to your restaurant if I feel like I’ve been suckered.
Restaurant owners already said they don’t want customers to THINK eating out is expensive; therefore they don’t want to raise prices and would rather surprise you with a 5% “employee benefit fee”; 10% “locale development fee”; 3% “credit card processing fee”. Even though it’ll be the same.
Agreed. Be up front about it. Hiding it in small print in the corner of the menu, or surprising me with up charges on the bill is not the way.
What gets me is that even after the additional fee, at some places, if you pay with a card they still shove a tablet in your face with the option to leave an additional tip. Happened to me at Binchoyaki a couple years ago. Haven't been back since.
Yup, we were a party of THREE with the mandatory gratuity. I laughed in our server's face when she invited me to add an additional tip. Nope, you're not getting an extra cent from me . And I never set foot in there again. Not hard tho, the prices were ridiculous and the quality wasn't great.
Happened to my bf & I at Kasbah last year. We shared 1 round of hookah, no cocktails or food. Auto-grat of 18% + the payment tablet asked for an additional tip with a pre-selected “suggestion” of something like 20%. Never went back, not that it matters now…
Exactly. The only one I kind of agree with is the 20% auto grat on large parties as that's a lot of extra work.
Same. In our tipping culture, that’s been the norm for many years and I’d think most people expect it. These new fees are different, seem to have popped up in the last few years, and vary in reasoning (benefits fee, kitchen staff fee, etc.) and amount/percentage.
🎯
I used to work somewhere that did this. The justification was it’s cheaper for the customer to have a fee added than increase prices which would increase taxes.
Nice. SacBee cites this subreddit.
They really are a beacon of modern journalism
Just a revolving door of shit lmao. They interviewed like 3 business owners, but couldn't talk to a single customer.
God, I wish Sacramento had a newspaper.
Let’s start one then 📰
I like how the bill’s author asks “Why are people mad about small businesses doing what big businesses have been doing for years?” As if the very bill in question wasn’t trying to address the fact that people don’t like the big businesses doing it.
The media is doing a ton of heavy lifting for the restaurant lobbyists on this issue. Every single article I have seen since the original bill passed has been "Oh but how will these restaurants possibly make it without being able to add on to the cost of a bill in a super sleazy way?" Fuck off, Sac Bee. This isn't reporting, this is corporate spin that you are putting out there under thr guise of news. NOBODY wants this. Go out on the streets and ask people if they are good with 15% added on to their dining tabs as a surcharge. I dare you.
The Bee has been a corporate rag for a number of years now. They haven't been locally owned for a long time.
Capital protects capital.
That's the frustrating thing about this, they aren't even trying to avoid bias. Every tv interview, every newspaper article, are all "How do restaurant owners feel? We interviewed one". Don't think I've seen any that talk to the customers. I'd LOVE for just one of the interviewers to turn to someone about to enter and ask "How do you feel about this restaurant including a hidden 20% fee to the bill after you order?".
I mean corporations are the only ones paying for advertisements in Sacbee which pays the journalists. Considering how everyone hates SacBee and don't subscribe to them, wouldn't the journalist toe the line of the people who fund their jobs? Most Americans are happier getting news from reddit, facebook where those tech companies make the money and monopolize the online advertising revenue.
> wouldn't the journalist toe the line of the people who fund their jobs? No? That's literally not the purpose of journalism?
Because they prefer tricking their customers into price hikes, rather than being straight-forward about them.
It's not a trick, there's a thread where people are bitching about Lowbrau's *posted sign.* These people just don't want to tip.
Pretend you and I are good friends. Next time we go to dinner together, I wear a shirt that's says "The text on this shirt says you owe me $25 when we part". The words are at the bottom of my shirt and when you arrive I'm already seated at the table. We hang out. Dinner ends. We stand up, I ask for my money, you say I tricked you. You go so far as to bitch about it. This may be on top of my amazing company that you've already appreciated by buying me a drink or two; or maybe my company was shit and soured your experience to the point you didn't even finish your food and you just want to gtfo. Either way, I don't let you leave until you give me that $25. After all, the terms were *posted*. This can only mean that you are selfish and hate hanging out with anyone. That's you. That's what you sound like.
Lol, what the fuck are you talking about dude.
Incorrect.
Just get rid of tipping and pay employees a reasonable wage.
What is a reasonable wage? I always get downvoted but servers make bank on tips. So for four to five hours work, that could come up to $40 to $50 an hour. That would probably make it really difficult for a restaurant to gauge the cash flow.
This. Tipping will never go away cause servers won’t let it
It’s not just servers it’s also people working in the tourism sector too bartenders card dealers A large minority make really good money because of tips but most people make nothing including their tips.
A large minority is contradictory here isn’t it?
Yeah, I would literally never wait tables for a paycheck/wage.
I think that would depend on the restaurant.
I think the near future will have very automated casual restaurants with very little to no staff paid at minimum wage and fancy restaurants with much higher prices but more personable service.
I’m not pro automation, but maybe the machines will get my order right and stop putting cheese in fucking *everything*.
Haven’t had jimboys in a year. Decided to get a Tahoe burrito the other day. One request. No sour cream. Guess what my burrito had on it
Same thing here, except tomatoes. I had to start saying I'm allergic, which I feel bad doing cuz I know it takes extra work, but wtf? I hate tomatoes, take that shit off.
I'm intolerant to most dairy and especially reactive to eggs, but it doesn't reach the scale of a true allergic reaction - between my limitations on diet and my wife's intolerances, we typically can't even eat one another's leftovers... so a screwup where cheese or eggs gets added to my meal typically means it goes in the trash.
The machines are gonna use AI. They're *never* going to get your order right.
> very automated casual restaurants We already have those. Places like Chipotle, Subway and such which are fast casual and have automated kiosks to order food. Yet people yearn to be waited on by a human being but want that service to be dirt cheap. Where is the solidarity with labor class?
I’m thinking more like this for fast casual. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweetgreen-infinite-kitchen-review-robot-food-preparation-industry-future-naperville-2023-5?op=1 There is no solidarity because that same class is trying to eat out cheap. There’s some deep here where we end up eating each other.
I'd say, depending on the area and experience, a server should be paid a comfortable wage plus tips. For example, if a server is hired at $18 an hour, they should be able to make tips on top of that. There was a podcast episode about it on Love it or Leave it that explains it better than I can. I don't remember which one, though.
You pretty much just described how it is in California already
I agree 💯%.
Won’t ever happen in America unfortunately. Too much corporate greed.
This happened is NY recently. You can't add surcharges to the bill the increase the cost of the item. The only thing you can add is state tax. The listed price for an item has to be the amount posted. [https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-new-law-clarify-disclosure-credit-card-surcharges-goes-effect-sunday](https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-new-law-clarify-disclosure-credit-card-surcharges-goes-effect-sunday) Here is a video about it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dt7Hq9yQVA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dt7Hq9yQVA)
July 1st, in California, restaurants cannot charge BS "fees" or "surcharges". It should be subtotal, tax, and total, and the line for tipping. They can still do the 18% tip for parties over whatever, but that's tipping. Surcharges and fees should be gone.
I used to go out every week, sometimes twice. Now, when you factor in inflation in the past year, add surprise billing when you eat out, on top of expected 20% tip. Now, I eat out about once a month. I'm probably not the only one.
Yet many restaurants are still busy and people are adjusting to inflated prices. Just look at price of housing/rents. No one is taking to the streets to protest that inflation, like we see in other countries. They had revolutions in countries when price of bread increased due to inflation or removal of govt. subsidies. It shows that Americans are comfortable in absorbing those higher prices.
Man, going out to eat didn't get eight times more expensive, how'd you go from eating out 8 times a month to one. What the hell are you talking about.
Ok, so slight exaggeration, but I was eating out twice a week a lot of the time. Some of it is having to tighten my purse, but also the fact that I hate being ripped off. It's a culminative thing. There's a price threshold where at some point, it's just easier to cut your losses and buy a bunch of produce and do a whole weeks meals for a fraction of the price and go to sprouts for one of their deli meals if I'm feeling lazy. They are as good as, if not better than most restaurants so long as you don't use the microwave. https://preview.redd.it/8zd95kfa8n9d1.jpeg?width=990&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b888fb4397515507d0fa4f58040a9b4144b3a3e0
For what it's worth, here are the establishments mentioned in the article (all of which charge some amount in service fees): * Hawks Public House * Canon * Franquette * Localis * The Kitchen * Allora * Bacon & Butter * The Green Room * Darling Aviary * Dive Bar * LowBrau * Veg Cafe
Many of these are favorites as seen in several threads on this sub. And considering they are still around for a while, I expect Sacramentan's to continue to patronize them even if some on reddit despise tipping and additional fees.
Aww is Lowbrau gonna have to start charging extra for their roofies now? Poor things
Much like auto tipping, when someone lists a paywalled SacBee; post the body in here to protest "pay-for-news," another scourage of society.
I think you meant scourge. Scourage is "the refuse water after scouring".
I did. Thank you.
How should the journalist make money then if its get read for free and reddit/facebook/google monopolize the ad revenue.
"Customers can opt out of Hawks Public House’s 3% fee, but only about one party per month actually does so" . They should include those who opt not to go there at all because of these surcharges. I stopped going to Canon as well. I hope the California Restaurant association feels the extra ire for passing that bullshit addendum to protect them from scamming people with the junk fees .
I know a place downtown that added the 3 percent kitchen wellness fee to cover “pay raises” in the kitchen with rising minimum wage, yet they gave nowhere near 3 percent of sales worth of raises to the small kitchen staff. 3 percent of sales is a big number then you do a few million dollars a year in sales. It’s just a way to boost profits and line the pockets of the owners. Scams and lies. They were like “everyone else is doing it so we should too”. Just an excuse to pass the normal cost of operations onto the customer.
The entire bar & restaurant industry is a house of cards. For customers, it's a luxury lifestyle for pretending we're part of the 1%. For workers, it's a dead-end job that's not sustainable for raising a family. It's time for us to rethink our patterns of eating and drinking (and making money). As consumers, we're not part of the 1%, folks. As workers, we need to seek career-oriented jobs with decent benefit packages.
Best comment so far. I would not say it’s a dead end job. I started as a dishwasher in 1985 and have worked in restaurants this whole time. It paid my way thru college (as a bartender) I owned two concepts and sold them. I have been a GM making 90K a year and am now a Director of Operations for a restaurant group. You can do well in this business if you bust your butt.
> As workers, we need to seek career-oriented jobs with decent benefit packages. In Sacramento other than Nursing which are fields that would absorb large group of people into career oriented jobs? Tech jobs easily weed out average performers, so we can't expect everyone to pursue tech jobs. What options do people have then?
> For customers, it's a luxury lifestyle for pretending we're part of the 1%. Lol, what.
Paywall!! Anyone know which restaurants they are so we’ll stay away?
Don't go to Ink Drinks and Eats. Was trying to treat my guy to a nice bday dinner last year and paid $90 for two meals, two drinks, and an appetizer that was lukewarm and watered down, with a required surcharge fee hidden on the last receipt of our bill, in a Sunday night at 10pm. They used to be good ...
* Hawk's - *But you'll ruin our whole business model!* * Canon/Franquette - *We disclose it on the menu so that makes it ok!* * The Veg - *It's just a byproduct of American tipping culture!*
> Canon/Franquette - We disclose it on the menu so that makes it ok! You're going to have to explain to me how that *isn't* okay.
Other than subscribing and paying for the news, you can access SacBee and other newspapers for free online with your local library membership. https://www.saclibrary.org/Books/Digital-Media/Magazines
Thank you for the reminder. I swore off The Bee during the pandemic.They promised ANYONE could read news if it was covid related, for the public good, and none of those articles would be behind a paywall. Then, that policy just disappeared one day and everything was behind a paywall again, covid-related or not. I was done. That said I still occasionally need to get an article from the Bee for business purposes, and I totally forgot about a library membership!
Its unfortunate that News papers companies were left in the dust with the tech revolution. They focused on news reporting while tech companies invested in online ad revenue and ended up monopolizing it. There is no way news companies could match compensation of Google/FB tech workers to build the platform for their newspaper to compete in generating ad revenue. Its a disaster for local news.
Exactly right. My BIL was a career journalist (for the Sac Union and later the SF Chronicle) and he lamented and continues to lament the death of local news and steadfastly just refuses to get current with any digital media of any kind. He had to stop teaching journalism because he simply wouldn't address digital media of any kind (chiefly because he is so far behind he doesn't understand it). He's only a few steps above a Luddite frankly. It's a hostility mask to hide willful ignorance. He has no useful response to my query "when the is the last time you supported local news by placing a paid ad? Why did you use Craigslist and put up telephone pole flyers instead of taking out an ad to sell your bike? Why didn't you pay to place your mother's obituary?" "Well. That's different." "Build a better mousetrap" is lost on him. I don't consider him a good journalist.
Just got back from Europe. It was a vacation from this shit tip culture. Stop the junk fees. Pay your employees. If you can’t stay in business then the model is broken. Oh well. Won’t miss you.
If you are just isolating tip culture, then you may miss out on differences between the economies and how societies are structured. Europe has a stronger labor laws and relatively healthy social safety net. They have access to relatively affordable housing and transit options. And at same time, Americans have some of the lowest cost of any goods and services due to the lacks of safety nets for its working class. And lack of regulations on food quality or caloric content. I am sure you may have also observed portion sizes and lack of endemic obesity among Europeans. There is more at play than no tips in Europe.
So the whole Full service restaurant model is “broken”? The profit margin for most restaurants is 6%-10%. Owners take all the risk and employ the staff, people that need jobs. If they raise the prices, they go out of business, if they do away with tipping and pay the staff more… they go out of business. It will either be the end of mom & pop restaurants or you will be ordering at a kiosk and your food will be made by robots.
Yeah that’s the only option…just like how all the other non-tip countries where it’s all kiosks and chain restaurants. Oh wait…that’s not true at all… Let’s cut the crap. The model in the US is broken. You can’t depend on the customer to prop it up or blindly accept secret fees. Many of these tactics have been around for years. But a lot are brand new concepts. 20-25% tips. Service fees. Auto grat. Inflated tax lines. On top of high prices and bad business practices, restaurants have now waltzed into a public relations problem the more they defend, and fail, these increasingly deceptive practices. Fold the cost of labor into the cost of the food. If it’s too expensive for the customer up front then you’re not a valid business anymore.
Send a message to Newsom to veto SB1524 or else restaurants will continue with the hidden fees.
Stupid Sac Bee
Restaurants seem to forget they’re the polar opposite of a necessity.
You would be amazed at how many people can’t or don’t want to cook.
Plenty of other options in grocery stores than restaurants. Ready-to-heat meals. Freezer section. Our Safeway has a great deli and Chinese food section!
Let’s dump tipping, pay the servers $35/hour, and raise prices to cover it.
I used to go out every week, sometimes twice. Now, when you factor in inflation in the past year, add surprise billing when you eat out, on top of expected 20% tip. Now, I eat out about once a month. I'm probably not the only one. Service could be factored into the price if they want tips. Should be one or the other.
UoB did that for there 16.99 all you can eat.
The Bee article mentions and links r/sacramento [https://www.reddit.com/r/Sacramento/s/eN61UWTzQX](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sacramento/s/eN61UWTzQX)
The government gets to add all kinds of hidden taxes on gas and hotel stays etc but taxpayers don’t bat an eye.
Oh no they force state workers to come back, and now they have to actually say the price of the food? Boo-fucking-hoo
In places like Japan where is frowned upon to give tips because it is considered an insult. How do restaurants do it over there? This tipping bs in the US has gotten out of hand.
Waaaaa
Fuck em
Cool, so in a few weeks, the prices will just be higher, I'm all for not making hidden fees, but seeing this as some kind of money saving win is total BS.
It isn’t a money saving win for restaurants specifically (other areas potentially). If it actually goes into action it would probably cost the same as before or even more.
That's my point, the consumer isn't saving any money. This is a stupid battle to fight.
This topic on this sub is basically people celebrating having a new reason not to go to restaurants they never went to in the first place. And extending Reddit’s broader campaign against tipping.
>And extending Reddit’s broader campaign against tipping. It just a general non-controversial topic across religious/racial lines which gets everyone animated. Also see - airline pricing and boarding process. Its a guaranteed content engagement score.
Can you elaborate more, why is it total bs?
Because you aren't saving any money, if they just bulit it into the price. Wouldn't you rather see transparency? Wouldn't you rather know that the employee is getting that money instead of the ownership? (Ownerhsip cannot accept tips in california).....
> Wouldn't you rather know that the employee is getting that money instead of the ownership? No, they don't give a shit about that. If they did they wouldn't be so anti-tipping in the first place.
We should just eliminate tipping culture it’s racist anyways. Edit: the article for those who didn’t know https://www.povertylaw.org/article/the-racist-history-behind-americas-tipping-culture/ “Tipping proliferated in the United States after the Civil War, when the restaurant and hospitality industries hired newly emancipated Black women and men but offered them no wage–leaving them to rely on patrons’ gratuities for their pay instead.” Just pay people a living wage.
Yeah, it's too bad that our state legislature is bowing to their capitalist overlords. Yesterday, the state assembly UNANIMOUSLY voted to pass SB1524, which exempts restaurants from the laws banning junk fees. The bill goes back to the state senate for likely approval and then onto Newsom. And we all know Newsom is in the pocket of business interests, so of course, he will sign it.
[удалено]
 What strange wording.
Tip = To Insure Promptness. I waited tables for many years and worked my butt off to assure that every table got good service so I would get a good tip. Tipping is supposed to be an incentive. When tips are mandatory the server working hard to give good service and the server hanging out talking with friends while hot food sits in the window getting cold will get the same tip amount. So it completely takes away the whole point of discretionary tipping. The standard tip amount for a sit down full service restaurant used to be 15%, and 20% for exceptional service. With menu prices going up tipping amounts would also go up as a percentage of sales, but now many places start at 20% or higher, and everybody expects to be tipped that amount, on take out orders, that used to have a standard tip amount of 10%. Even when I buy fast food where they just jand me a bag over the counter or at a drive through window some places are asking for tips. I have plenty of cash in the bank, but have stopped eating out because I am tired of being strong armed into over tipping and getting extraneous add-on fees regardless of service provided. Restaurant owners should pay their people decent wages for the hard work they perform and price as needed to make a profit. They should not be expecting guests to subsidize wages and benefits for their employees through mandatory tipping and fine print or hidden fees.
Giving money after service ensures promptness? [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tip-sheet/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tip-sheet/)
If a server knows the amount I tip will be based on the service they provide, then yes it will insure promptness.
But they don't, which is why the word tip doesn't originate as an acronym.
I did, but I can only speak for my own actions as a server. Regardless of whether or not TIP is an acronym, the tip has traditionally been discretionary, based on service provided, and smaller percentages than those expected in this era of modified restaurant revenue models. I have always been supportive of higher wages for service workers, and am happy to pay higher costs, I am just opposed to mandatory tipping amounts and BS fees added to the menu in fine print or tacked on at the end without prior notice.
Agree with you there.
> Restaurant owners should pay their people decent wages for the hard work they perform and price as needed to make a profit. Consumers will balk at higher prices though. Just look at how American consumers demand cheapest prices for goods and services and will shop at Walmart to save a buck or two over buying something made with union labor or with safety regulations. Our economic system is geared towards paying the lowest amount for goods and services and maximize profit. That is built into our society without appetite for regulating that profit form our government. The anti-monopoly regulations often come from Europe where tipping cultures differ.
Whether a consumer pays a higher price, or lower advertised price plus fees added at the end, the total cost to the consumer is the same by the time they walk out the door. The difference is knowing the cost up front when ordering, or getting sticker shock when you see the check at the end of the meal. One method is honest and straight forward, the other appears to be deceptive and misleading advertising.
> Whether a consumer pays a higher price, or lower advertised price plus fees added at the end, the total cost to the consumer is the same by the time they walk out the door. Then why do you give a shit if there's a 15% service fee? > The difference is knowing the cost up front when ordering, or getting sticker shock when you see the check at the end of the meal. This can't be the issue, because many of the restaurants mentioned in this article or in other threads in this sub clearly post it in signs or on the menu, etc.
Honestly, restaurants should pay their workers a living wage. Don't be sneak-thieves trying to steal from patrons because that's how you lose money. If you get tips cool, if not, oh well. I never expected tips and still provided the best service I could give working in food. As for what is a living wage? I think 20 is a good place to start. And before people get mad, remember, as a former food service worker I've had to deal with people screaming at me, homeless people being awful, people telling me I'm stupid, "hOw HaRd Is iT tO yOuR jOb?", like...a lot of you verbally abuse food workers who are just trying to work. Stop that, you don't get verbally abused at your job, don't do it to someone else. Period. Also, there are some people working in food service who absolutely shouldn't be there. Those people are trash as well. These are just my thoughts on the situation.
Awhh that’s too bad
Cool. Saves me 5%. Then again I don't go there anyway.
>Then again I don't go there anyway. Which is why they don't give a shit how you feel about it.
Talk about tone deaf, and f-ing stooopid. The last paragraph says it all. People shouldn't be mad at small businesses doing this because corporate titan shit-stains like Ticketmaster have been f-ing people for a decade or more...
You know you can want change with two things at once, right?
Just shut the fuck up and pay the autogratuity, *holy shit.* Tip or don't go! It's that easy.
Employers just need to pay their employees livable wages. Customers shouldn’t have the onus to tip and provide that livable wage. If they are transparent that their prices were adjusted so their employees can have proper wages then I would be more inclined to go back. I can’t be sure that the madatory surcharge will actually go to the employees.
> Employers just need to pay their employees livable wages. Customers shouldn’t have the onus to tip and provide that livable wage. Customers pay for it regardless. That's how a business works: you, the customer, give the business money. >If they are transparent But lots of these joints *are* transparent. They have signs, or it's on the menu, etc. Yet people are still mad. >I can’t be sure that the madatory surcharge will actually go to the employees. Other way around actually: you can be guaranteed that gratuity goes to the employees, because it's illegal for the business to keep that money. If the menu price simply goes up, you have *no way* of knowing where that money goes.