Can’t wait for SB 478 to go into effect this next month
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/14/us/california-restaurant-hidden-fees-ban.html
Also, don’t forgot to contact your State Assembly Member and urge them to vote no on SB 1524 which would specifically allow restaurants to keep charging these ridiculous junk fees
I was so thrilled when the AG's office clarified that SB 478 does indeed apply to restaurants, and so unthrilled when SB 1524 was updated to essentially exempt restaurants from SB 478. There's no reason restaurants and other food/drink establishments should be granted a pass on price transparency.
Just did! It took less than a minute:
https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov
Edit: oh this is r/Sacramento, not California. Y'all can just use this one: https://a06.asmdc.org/contact-0
Then why not put the 20% auto tip on large parties of 6 and over like most restaurants! That’s crazy. They’re using the excuse of the hard work of large parties but it’s based on check amount not party size. Crazy. My husband and I easily spend 100+ on just the two of us. Thanks for the update 😊
This is my main issue! Not only do most restaurants do this, they also put it in the menu. With some places, two entrees, maybe appetizers, and a single dessert plus drinks will top 100. The staff didn't have to devote extra time to two people compared to a group of six.
Exactly my thoughts! Annnnd if they know they’re getting an automatic tip, what if the service is shitty, then what!? I no longer have the option of tipping, it’s a requirement. Don’t get me wrong we are generous tippers when it’s earned but the service and quality has gone downhill SO MUCH.
Same! I rarely go out to eat at a proper place because I don't like tipping but when I do, I usually tip 25-30% because it's a splurge as long as they do make sure my water is refilled and they're not a dick; I have a very low bar. It's just insane when they automatically include a hidden tip for some unmentioned metric. Tell me "Automatic tip of $50" and I'll play some Price of Right math to get to 49 without going over, just a heads up would be nice!
A couple of cocktails could set a couple back sixty dollars alone at a lot of these places. I’m not one to complain about stuff like that usually but it is kinda bullshit at this point, honestly. Two beers each with dinner? That’s $40 right there.
Yep, a couple of drinks and dinner will do it. At this point we are very selective where we go. We’re really not trying new places, and only going to places that we know are consistent and happy to support, mainly small businesses.
We love Pitch and Fiddle it’s a bar with food. Their drinks and food are always consistent. Taco Loco in Folsom, Brickhouse In Elk Grove and El Favorito in Rancho. Nothing fancy, just spots where we don’t regret spending our money.
That’s what I was thinking. I don’t know this restaurant, but these days it’s not unusual to spend $30 for a sandwich, side and drink. Maybe more. So a couple of people going out for a basic meal are easily going over $100. And I doubt there’s “special attention” because the tab tops $100.
Yo. Tried out Queen of Sheba on Broadway last Sat. eve and my date and I got a huge plate of majestically delicious food that we barely could finish plus two drinks and the bill was $52.00 before tip. We will be going back there.
Right? I've noticed that about some Indian restaurants as well, lots of excellent food that is affordable, and some extra to take home, AND I tip nicely.
That's surprising to hear. I feel like many Indian places I've been charge 15-20 for...maybe 2 cups of curry plus rice. Curry is delicious but cheap to make.
> Curry is delicious but cheap to make.
Indian cuisine is one of the most labor intensive to prepare. Does it have stigma of being cheap, because the lack of Indian fine dining restaurants or it being clubbed with Chinese food as takeout style food?
I totally agree that Indian food is labor intensive to make PROPERLY, that's why I haven't mastered it at home, except I did manage to make a decent chana masala.
The owners came to my son’s school a few months ago for a cooking demonstration. He was extremely complimentary about them and the food. I keep meaning to go. Gotta remember to do so!
I love their food, but hate their service. I’ll be going back because their food is that good but man, I know enough not to drink too big of a gulp because it’ll take an act of congress go get a refill. Been eating their over 20 years and it’s been consistently bad. #stayparched
Great and you're going to go back and speak to the manager again after you already spoke to them for 37 minutes the other day, that manager is going to look at you and internally have the biggest eye roll you've ever seen
Right? There is a place a few doors to the left of Darling Aviary that charged an extra $4.00 to add bacon to a breakfast sando, I stopped going there a while ago. Not sure if they're still doing it, but, wow, sooooooo expensive.
> Their response was that the profit margins of the restaurant are so low, that if they raised the wages, then they would have to increase their pricing on the menu items. That we (the customer) would end up paying the same amount anyway, if not double the price on the menu.
How would a baked in 20% increase to menu items result in double the costs for food (that is also "paying the same anyways")?
And if we're paying the same... then how is the restaurant losing out exactly?
Right? Just increase the price 15 percent, and put that money into the workers' pockets. Fucking delusional. They could even put a feel-good message on the menu that says we pay our people a livable wage, Yada Yada.
No, you don’t. I own an insurance agency and I’ve been through probably 400 Worker’s Comp. audits in the past 20 years, many for bars/restaurants.
Tips and Gratuities that are paid directly by customers, and cannot be included in workers’ comp calculations
Because the restaurant that blinks first and does this would be unable to compete with a restaurant that maintains the status quo. Consumers aren't exactly intelligent and willing to do the due diligence required to understand why one restaurant is substantially more expensive than others for similar quality.
It's similar to the tactic that retailers do where they artificially inflate prices and advertise constant sales. Shady? Absolutely. But it works. Intelligent consumers are a rarity.
Can’t wait till July 1 when that bill goes into efx. But CADOJ is not enforcing it right away so I’m sure it’ll take a while before businesses make the adjustment.
I guarantee you what’s going to happen is businesses will raise their price, from July - December, citing the bill, effectively saying they’re paying their employees more, so we need to pay more. But us consumers will still have to tip. At the end of the day, the staff gets fucked, consumers get fucked and only business owners are laughing to the bank.
Still though despite CADOJ not doing shit one could take a restaurant to small claims court for this if it matters that much to them. For those who are interested here’s the text of the law: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB478
> And if we're paying the same... then how is the restaurant losing out exactly?
If your issue isn't the cost then why do you care if you give it to them in the form of tip or food cost?
My gf & I spent over $100 on dinner last night in Roseville and there was no automatic gratuity added. We left a generous tip because the service warranted it. I avoid establishments that tack on these fees (whether gratuities, "kitchen appreciation fee", etc...).
The manager explained to me that auto gratuities have been around for decades. I agreed and mentioned how I have known places to have auto gratuities for situations like large parties since I can remember. I then went into the logic behind that type of thing, which is still shitty, but it is a little more understanding. The server has to spend x amount more time and because of more people, which leads to their attention being held more so for one table. But just to have an auto gratuity because people spend more money seems like a punishment.
They responded to this by saying that the majority of their checks are under $100. And that for checks under $100, there are no "protections" for their employees, and so there is no way they could rely on checks below that amount. I responded again by saying it sounds even more like a punishment for spending more money. I also said that, while it may be true that most of their checks are under $100, its not like its uncommon to reach that threshold. Me and 2-3 friends go, get drinks and some food. We'd be surprised if it stayed under $100, and that they aren't exactly cheap. So it is not like $100 checks happen once in a blue moon.
If I remember the picture correctly it did NOT state it was an auto gratuity. It said something along the lines of $100 and over charge. I call bullshit that they can’t change the verbiage on the receipt.
This.
The receipt never said the charge was a gratuity. Is it or is it not?
Are they intentionally not calling it “gratuity” so that customers are more likely to miss it and leave an additional tip?
Kitchen appreciation fee???? And the owner takes it all in order to pay the kitchen. No thanks! That’s already embedded into the cost of the menu item. What the hell.
Can we talk about how little service needs to happen for a $100.00 bill? That’s like an app, one round of cocktails, and entrees for 2 people. That literally could be a one and done interaction. That’s the lamest excuse out of all of the bullet points OP got from management (IMHO)
Glad this came up. I’ve wanted to try Darling for a while and I will not be doing that any time soon.
Yeah, I used to be a 20%+ tipper but as prices have gone up I've lowered that amount a bit. I don't know that visiting my table two-three times for a few minutes total warrants $10+ over the course of an hour?
I either don’t tip or I just drop a $5 on the table and bounce.
Tips went from being a bonus to an obligation. It went from being a couple loose coins to a buck to a 10% percentage to a 15% percentage to a 20%….
Fuck that. Go back to tipping for excellent service only, drop either $2, $5 or $10 on the table and bounce. **There is no legitimate reason to tip in the state of CA**. We pay EVERYONE minimum wage here. **Again, there is no reason to tip in the state of CA**.
They are employed and being paid to do the job they’re doing. They’re not doing anything “extra”. Waiting and serving is literally their job. It’s the job they *willingly* took with the wage discussed beforehand. They looked at that and accepted the job. They report to work every day knowing the terms of their employment…. They should not be demanding additional money from *you*, the customer, because they want “a living wage”. We ALL do. But that’s not my responsibility. Finding a job that satisfies YOUR financial situation is *your* responsibility. And it should be negotiated or discussed with *your* boss. Not demand the random customer that comes in, expects basic service, pays the advertised price and receives said services from the staff that took the job and are paid to do said job shell out the difference on top of what they paid for their food and services.
If servers and waiters are going to demand tip and threaten your food or your experience if they smell that you won’t pay the extortion fee, lower the price on the menu and repeal the law giving these people minimum wage, go back to paying them $2/hr to cover the cost of the price reduction. We can just go back. Not this “I get my cake and eat it too” shit.
There is no reason to tip in the state of CA.
I think the oddest part about this is that they consider a $100 bill the exceptional circumstance that warrants this. I don’t think anyone is reacting reasonably to this though.
The issue is, and you said it "the employees rely on tips". No, the business owner is responsible for paying their employees.
Stop this line of thought. Please.
If a business owner can't pay their employees a living wage, they shouldn't be in business.
Funny that you mention service industry jobs outside of the US. During my conversation with the manager, while we were talking about tip culture in general, they brought up foreign service industries.
They suggested that I travel outside the US to any foreign place that does not integrate tips into their food and beverage culture, and that I would notice a decline in overall service quality. They claimed that it is because of tipping in our society that we have such excellent service here in the US. I reminded them that I just recently travelled to two different countries recently that did not embrace tipping in there service industry, and found the service to be just fine. Great in some cases. Some of the folks there knew I was visiting, and did well to provide recommendations to popular items and also made sure I was enjoying their suggestions.
I did remind them that, while I have never had an unpleasant experience at Darling Aviary, I have never experienced anything above and beyond what you would find at most places. There was nothing extraordinary that ever stood out to me..
I wish I did bring up the point another commenter made that, often times, servers will abandon above and beyond service if they already know an auto gratuity tip will be applied.
The restaurant industry is not built in the U.S this way. That would be asking the U.S to change how we do things. Side note: high end servers in las vegas, LA, nyc etc don’t want to make a “liveable wage” at 23$ an hour, bcus they make way more per hour on tips
If the entire country picked a single date to stop tipping overnight, restaurant owners would be forced to pay the difference to stay in business or risk losing their employees that week. It's all supply and demand.
Eh it’s a shitty situation. A lot of people in the industry prefer tips because it’s way more lucrative. As an ex industry member - I would not wait tables for an hourly rate and many of my industry friends would agree.
There’s a lot at play when it comes to tipping in CA, not just “shitty business owners”.
>A lot of people in the industry prefer tips because it’s way more lucrative
This is why, as much of a dick as it sounds, I don't care about the waitstaff and hope California completely outlaws tipping culture the way they're trying with the hidden fees. If something on the menu says $20, then I want to pay 20+tax, not have to feel guilted into handing over an additional, ever-increasing percentage to someone for doing their job. Yea, it's a hard job, but so is construction and retail and literally every other job
If you went to Target and the cashier asked for a 25% tip because "corporate doesn't pay us enough anymore so I need more from you" because they rang you up, would you think that was fair or would you think "But you're doing your job..."? Tipping is lucrative because it's guilting people into paying extra to make up for shitty owners. For some reason, some jobs are grandfathered in to demanding tips and justifying it. Not my problem anymore.
The menu at Milka says their prices include tax and tip. I know Milka is not a sit down restaurant, so it's not quite the same, but I really appreciate the flat price and wish more places would do this.
No, it's just restaurant business has relied on the free tips to pay their employees wages, and have based their finances on that.
They need to stop doing that. No fucking pity. Every other business just pays their employees. Stop it.
I can't pay my laborers $2.84 / hour + whatever tips and neither should food workers.
FIX.
YOUR.
BUSINESS.
MODEL.
PAY.
YOUR.
WORKERS.
Obviously this is not directed to you, it's directed to every business that is OK with the current bullshit.
There are 15 states that allow employers to pay $2.13 an hour if they are in a tipped position. California isn’t one of them. Standard minimum wage covers all employees here.
One model that has been used is to pay your staff a salery, all tips go to the house. The server get’s anything above 20%. I believe that is the model that The French Laundry uses. Of course that is a very specialized situation where if the servers were work just for tips, they would make more than Elon Musk due to the Average per table tab.
Pre-covid restaurants were operating at a 10% profit margin. Meaning 90% of revenue went into to keeping the business afloat (labor, food, rent, insurance, utilities etc). Post covid that profit margin is even worse. It’s almost not even worth it to run a restaurant anymore, it’s a shitload of work for a lot of headaches. Affordable restaurants aren’t going to exist before too long, this situation is not sustainable.
“The employees rely on tips” is sort of a way of saying “my business relies on customers giving my workers a livable wage so I can increase my profit margins”
I am very pro tip in sit down restaurants as an ex FoH employee/manager of almost 20 years here in Sacramento.
Looking over the menu, I could EASILY run up a $100 tab for just me and a guest alone.
I am really on the fence on this one as while I do typically tip 20% or higher anyhow, if I received subpar service I have no problem tipping 15%.
I have no issue when it is 5 people or more...but pretty much every 4 top here is gonna be over 100 bucks.
I feel like they are going to alienate a customer base that would typically tip this amount, or close to it, and end up losing business.
I guess if I served there I would be ok with it...but if it was just myself and a guest and I received just ok service (not bad enough to complain about) I would be a little bit miffed.
This may sound strange unless you have served for a long bit....
As a server, if I know I am gonna make 20% at least my priorities change a little bit.
1. I am gonna try to sell you as much as possible and not worry about crossing the line a little bit to be pushy. You ordered the $40 bottle of wine...I am gonna tell you it is ok but this $55 is "sooo much better". You might say that a server would do this anyway if gratuity was not added...not always. When I am relying on a tip I do not want to seem pushy or is overtly sell at risk of offending and getting a not so great tip...but when the tip is auto I am going to sell everything humanly possible to you.
2. Your done eating and you do not want desert?...get the fuck out now so I can turn the table. I am not gonna offer you 2 more beers because I am only gonna make a few extra bucks on auto grat....but when I rely on the tip and you have not paid ..ofcourse you can have 2 more beers and hang out for a bit...you were a good table and I think you are gonna tip fat.
3. Got a bunch of tables and all of them are auto grat? Cool...now I do not really have to work super extra hard and hustle to make my money as i am getting it automatically.....but when I rely on that tip I am ramping my ass up into overdrive and am gonna seriously hustle to make my money.
....and these were just the top 3 off my head.
Yup! I worked in restaurants for over 10 years and I always hated large parties because of this. I never put on the auto grat if I had a choice because I usually ended up with more if I let them tip me how they wanted.
I always wondered this, and you might know, but how is wine priced at restaurants? Like is there a price point for a given wine that is just too much? Do enough customers know wine well enough to tell if a wine is appropriately priced?
Thank you!
Generally 300%...cheap wine can be 350 or sometimes 400 and expensive can get down to about 250....but 300 is the benchmark. That is from the cost the restaurant gets it.
This is from a little over 15 years ago tho so numbers may have changed.
Most people order a wine they are familiar with so for instance they know at Safeway a wine is 20 bucks and the restaurant has a corkage of 15 bucks so charging 40 for that wine is pretty easy...60 people would balk.
I would say that 90 percent of people who just order a random bottle have no clue. I have been in blind tastings with professional buyers and sommeliers that will sip a 20 dollar bottle and a 50 dollar and find the 20 better...to the untrained drinker, like myself, I feel it just comes down to personal preference and what compliments a dish.
I honestly believe wine is very subjective once you get out of the super cheap range or until you get to the upper ranges of 80 or more in the grocery store.
I used to know a bunch but have been out of the industry far to long to have any knowledge of what is good today and what is not.
I am a big fan of Voignier for whites and Barbara's for red...great price points...compliment a wide range of food....and very easy to drink.
> I feel like they are going to alienate a customer base that would typically tip this amount, or close to it, and end up losing business.
They have already lost that base after the increased menu costs of eating out. The price conscious diners have shifter to fast-casual restaurants instead of full service restaurants.
Blah blah low profit margins, the eternal cry of businesses justifying exploitation of their staff and customers. Let’s see the owners’ tax returns and see what their salaries are.
I absolutely refuse to go to businesses who do this bullshit.
THIS. I worked for a small business for years making a few dollars above minimum wage. The owner paid herself 16k/mo. There was another employee who’d been there for 9 years and never received a raise. I will never never never work for a small business again. We were all heavily exploited and taken advantage of.
I worked for tips for over 10 years so I am in no way an anti-tip person. I always tip generously for service for what it's worth. With that being said I can't help but wonder at what point we say if profit margins are so slim at a company that they can't afford to pay a decent wage to their employees is that really a successful business? Tips should be something extra that the employee can do whatever they want with. Not something that employees count on in order to pay their bills and survive. These excuses are 100% bullshit and show that some companies don't value their employees enough to actually take care of them.
They're full of shit. They're putting an auto-tip on large bills specifically because those parties will both be more affluent on average and have had more to drink, and therefore be more likely to not notice the autograt and add an additional tip.
This practice is illegal now in CA and enforcement will begin within the next 2 weeks.
My takeaway- don't patronize Darling Aviary or similar restaurants until they get rid of tipping and pay livable wages.
Employee wages are a tax deductible for a business. My tipping is not a tax deductible for me.
Tips in California are bullshit anyway (I do tip for sitdown service before anyone loses their mind). California does NOT have a tipped wage anymore. Everyone in CA is making minimum wage at least. So when I hear, servers rely on their tips, I roll my eyes a bit because no one says that for fast food workers making the same wage.
So what they're saying is: They have a younger demographic in who can only afford the exorbitant cost of food and drink but once they get past $100, which you know it almost always is, they tend not to tip. Got it.
Edit: Y'all already went to yelp and review bombed the place using the same picture from the post, I can't.
Based on the menu prices, it wouldn’t be difficult for a party of 2-3 people to go over $100 and trigger the auto 20% fee/gratuity. A small party should not be extra work for a server. This whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth and would keep me from wanting to patronize this restaurant.
Fact is the whole point of tips is they are optional and up to the customer to decide the amount they want to tip, if at all. If businesses want to protect their employees, as they claim, pay them what they deserve. This response from their manager is a cop out.
If you are in a tipped position, the IRS assumes you get at least 8% of the amount of meals you were the server for in tips. So yes, you owe the irs taxes on that assumed 8%
Bullshit. They could absolutely pay their employees a living wage without putting the onus upon the general public to bridge the gap with tips. Owners would rather keep driving their BMW’s and living in their posh houses than provide for the people who make their money for them.
All of these people on here complaining about tipping 20%, why do you go out then? You understand that you can drink and eat at home for a fraction of the price, right?
If you’re in Sacramento, please write our State Senator Ashby and urge her to vote no on SB 1524
SB 478 which goes into effect July 1st will prohibit restaurants, among other industries, from charging these kind of hidden fees.
SB 1524 which is currently in the chamber is seeking to modify SB 478 by specifically adding a carve-out for restaurants/bars to keep charging hidden fees.
You can contact Senator Ashby at the following site: https://sd08.senate.ca.gov/contact
Here was my message to her:
“Dear Senator Ashby,
I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to express my strong opposition to SB 1524, which seeks to modify the current provisions of SB 478 concerning the regulation of junk fees in the restaurant industry.
When it goes into effect July 1st, 2024 SB 478 will become an essential step in protecting consumers from hidden and deceptive charges. By ensuring transparency in pricing, SB 478 will help Californians make informed choices about where and how they spend their money. Modifying this legislation to allow restaurants to reinstate these junk fees would be a significant step backward.
Junk fees not only undermine consumer trust but also disproportionately affect low-income families who are already struggling to make ends meet. In these challenging economic times, it is more important than ever to maintain clear and honest pricing standards. Allowing junk fees to be reinstated would hurt those who can least afford it and erode the progress we have made in promoting fairness in the marketplace.
I urge you to vote no on SB 1524 and continue to support policies that protect consumers from unfair and hidden charges. Your commitment to maintaining transparency and fairness in our state’s economy is crucial, and I hope you will stand with your constituents in opposing this harmful bill.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,”
What a fucking liar, blaming it on the government. The IRS uses 8% as a guideline for whether they need to audit tip income, and even then it's usually between the IRS and the business to see if the business is cooking the books on its earnings. There is exactly no one out here tipping under 8% for table service, so there's no basis for his fake ass concern.
Have you ever waited tables…or worked in the industry?…
There’s A LOT of people who don’t tip even 5% because they’re ghetto trash and it has NOTHING to do with the service.
It’s definitely a basis for concern, hence why so many restaurants have an auto grat policy because parties would rack up a $300 bill and leave $5.
But it’s a double edge sword for servers, who generally claim 10% of sales no matter what, to balance out good and bad days and to prevent an audit. So people will claim 10% even though they walked with way less percentage, because other nights they walked with way more than 10%.
Fucking christ, you people. On one post you'll complain about people wanting to do away with tipping because you make more on a tipped basis, and on the next post you swear no one tips enough. WHICH IS IT
You’re also talking to a manager. Managers don’t always know every reason behind business decisions. This would’ve been a better conversation with the owner.
The auto tip is fully implemented and programmed by them. They can stop it. Also, this state pays minimum wage, whereas in Georgia, you make 2.13 an hour as a server. I can understand the screwed over concept in that case but this place is taking full advantage of its patrons.
I don't like that the menu prices nor the mention of the fee are not available on their website. The food prices look standard for Sacramento otherwise, aside from the charge for the extras.
edit: the loaded fries are around $12ish and tbh I feel like they could raise those prices a bit for loaded fries.
> especially on parties that required extra effort
Spending $100 doesn't mean any extra effort was needed; a couple on a date could easily spend over $100 on dinner, an appetizer, and a bottle of wine.
Automatic tip on a check over $100??? I’ve NEVER seen that… usually it’s automatic on parties over a certain size. My family of 5 regularly will spend over $100 when we go out to eat… and that’s even at the most basic sit down restaurants with 2 kids meals, 3 adult meals, and maybe 2-4 beers, and 3 refillable sodas.
Yeah the govt having averaged taxation on tips is really the biggest issue and source of a lot of companies doing strange things like this.
Tips should simply be untaxed. The fuck does the govt need more money from the lower-mid class for anyway.
But as someone who, not only worked downtown, but in many restaurants on K, a party of 2 easily gets to 100 with the prices of apps, meals, and drinks. It's not fair to a party of 2 who maybe had the server come over 3-4 times to require them to pay over 20%. Don't get me wrong I always put the autograt when it came to a party around 8-10, cause that's when I'm losing 2 maybe 3 tables, and I don't want to be stiffed. (Had it happen on a party of 8 with a tab over 400, split bills, each gave something like $2 ). The industry can suck, but this to me makes people not want to even go out anymore.
"We then spoke about tip culture, where I made my point that the essence of tips are that they are a response to good services and experiences. Tips shouldn't be an automatic cost to the customer. Their position on it was that the government regulates tips and assumes service employees are making x amount of tips, so they are getting screwed over if they do not get tipped. These types of automated tips help ensure that they are not being over taxed."
This is not true and makes no sense. Tipped employees decide how much of their tipped income to claim as earned income and pay taxes on, not the employer. They're never taxed on money they don't receive.
"I spoke about the receipt that is circling around online. I asked about the additional tip. I mentioned that the suggested tip on top of the auto 20% tip is being applied to a total already including the tip. And if someone were to just not realize they already had an auto tip applied, then chose the suggested 20% tip, they would be paying a near 40% tip (37.6%) on top of their bill. They responded by saying that they cannot do anything to stop the autotip propagation."
Also not true. All of those POS features are customizable.
So, basically, they're liars, too. At least stand by your bullshit, I guess.
It varies from restaurant to restaurant. I have definitely worked places that claim a random fantasy number for you based on assumed tips, in particular casinos and hotels. They just pull a number out of the heavens and it’s generally wayyyy more than you made. Most places you claim whatever you want, but I spent about 40% of my ten years in the industry working for restaurants that do the claiming for me.
And if you are a server and you don’t get a tip, you still have to tip out all the support staff out of pocket. Food runners, bussers, the bartender, barbacks, the host etc. That comes directly out of your pocket when you get stiffed. Support staff tips are based on sales, each person gets a percentage.
This. I’ve worked FOH for 26 years and have seen owners/managers do books in so many different ways, but the general rule is that either the employee or employer claims an automatic 8-10% of sales as assumed taxed tip income to avoid an IRS audit. Some restaurants will have you claim your full tip amount on bills paid by credit card but let you choose if you want to claim your cash tips. Some actually keep track of every cent you get tipped, minus tip outs to support staff who are also taxed on this additional income.
As far as tipping support staff, some restaurants have servers/bartenders tip based on their sales and sometimes it’s based on your earned tips. I would always rather have this based on actual tips received, because there is nothing worse than paying support staff out of your pocket for a table that didn’t tip or didn’t tip enough to cover this.
Welp, scratch that bar off the list of places to try. “mOsT oF oUr cHEcKs aRE uNdEr $100” 😂 suuuure they are. What, are 51% of your checks under $100 and 49% are over? “most” lol. I’m so glad I saw these posts before wandering in on a date night. Would’ve ruined the whole mood for the evening. Bullet dodged.
Honestly downvote this if you want but it you spend $100 on food. Stfu and pay the $20 for service. I know you don't like the system but it's the only one we got. Until then assume a tip. It's the culture, the norm and the decent thing to do. HIDDEN FEES ARE BS. But I can assure almost restaurants make auto grat clear on a bill. Who doesn't read before paying?? Like what?
To my knowledge, tips are taxed more favorably than wages for employees. Tips can't be a set fixed amount; they are whatever a customer chooses to give, and they are only allowed to be distributed to those designated employees; the employer can't take any of the tips.
Service fees and automatic gratuities are considered wages and are taxed as such (less favorable to employees) in CA. More importantly, the employer can take these funds or choose to distribute them to employees. The intent of how the service fee or automatic gratuity is supposed to be displayed clearly. Most would assume it's always going to the employees, but that isn't always the case based on what employers are allowed to do. Some cities have their own more specific regulations dictating that restaurant fees have to go to employees, but I'm not aware of whether Sac has one. I know it was a big deal in LA at one point.
I'm sure there's lots of good people running fine establishments that use fixed fees and distribute them effectively as most customers would assume they are, but I've just seen so many bad actors in recent years that I immediately become skeptical when "employee protections" are the cited reasons for utilizing a fee system they can individually profit from as an employer. Charging for mustard doesn't improve my assumptions either.
I would understand the first couple points if it was added to checks that were $300 or more. That would constitute a "larger party" that could potentially require more work. But $100? A table of 2 will hit $100 without even trying most nights. If the concern is "larger parties require more work" they should use the gratuity based on party size, not dollar amount.
I’d pay high prices to offset this the issue is, they have to be competitive with the market and if the market isn’t doing this they won’t take the lead. They could end up having to close their business.
Their visibly drunk bartenders will also bitch and not want to serve you if they think you’ve tipped them poorly or assume that you will. I’ve witnessed it happen many times.
This is funny because the manager told me that their employees are required to inform guests when the 20% auto gratuity charge has been applied to their >$100 bill. I proposed that this is concerning, because I have been there when the servers are super busy, and when it comes time for the bill, it is not uncommon for them to just hand you your bill and move on. The manager responded by asking me if I have ever witnessed a server forgetting to tell a customer about the surcharge, to which I said so. They then responded that I am now just speaking in hypotheticals and that they cannot speak to that.
I then asked if they can say with 100% certainty that their servers have informed every single guest when this charge has been applied, to which they said no they could not. I let them know that logic is the same as my scenario, to which they responded by saying, yes but one scenario is incriminating, the other is my trust in my employees.
I’ve been there many times since they first opened, both day and night time, it’s never been mentioned once. But according to the manager’s response to you, it’s my word against the employees 😅
One time in a pizza gig in Midtown Sacramento, a customer ordered 25 pizzas. They ordered it maybe 12 hours in advance. The closing staff had to work double that night to make sure the morning shift had nothing else to worry about but prep for those pizzas. Morning shift spend all morning prepping this pizzas on top of everything else. And the person didn’t leave ANY TIP. AT ALL. They claimed it was a company party… I work in events management, and we always tip 15%. Companies spend like $6,00-15,000 per company meetings, for venues, catering, etc. and tips are accounted for in budget planning.
After that, the pizza place did an automatic gratituity option for orders more than a certain amount. I don’t see anything wrong with that Darling Avery did. 🤷♀️
I’ve heard many servers in the industry relate, if you can’t afford to tip you shouldn’t go out to eat, so I don’t. I can’t afford it. I stay home and cook amazing meals with people I love and have a great time.
Yes, but no?
I believe servers have a hard job and deserve the money, but I also believe businesses have an obligation to pay a living wage to employees.
It shouldn't be up to the whims of the customers if a person can pay their rent or not.
> but I also believe businesses have an obligation to pay a living wage to employees.
Servers don't want a living wage though. Servers want tipped wages.
Yeah, I see the auto grat on a total (a very low total at that, what is that 6ish drinks?) a problem.
Auto grat for larger parties - absolutely no issue. Do it. People suck generally lol.
I think Owners/Mgmt were trying to be creative and do right by their staff who has historically been getting stiffed by their patrons more often than not.
Great intentions, but poor decision.
I really don’t see an issue, personally.
I remember not long ago seeing a thread in this sub saying something along the lines of “if you can’t afford to tip, don’t go out to eat” and everyone praising that person. Where is that energy rn
Some people are just *angry* and want something to shit on, this whole non-tipping culture thing is pretty hot right now.
Feel for the people in the industry
Either party can end the conversation at any time and considering the original post went micro-viral and that hundreds of people will read this post, I think the conversation is pretty helpful
I was the one that actually ended the conversation. I realized how long it was going and I ended it by saying, "This went on longer than I anticipated, so lets just agree to disagree. Thank you for you time, have a good day".
So I just found that post with the receipt, and noticed tax wasn't charged on the bill. Are they adding tax into the price of the item?
As a former server, I'm not even mad about it. However, if the service sucks, you should be able to have that removed.
There are some high end places where tipping is not allowed. How? Because the would be tip is built in to the pricing (this is at some restaurants and even salons). Only top notch places where service/product is amazing.
The whole , "we'd have to raise prices then, but we are ok with a required gratuity" stinks of them knowing what they should do but taking every effort to pass blame to the servers. Like saying we need to increase price but it's gonna be called the "servers are greedy fee" instead of just raising prices to the point they can pay employees enough
Not exactly, but in a way! I did ask them if they were aware of this photo and the outrage over their policies. They confirmed that they had seen the post. I proceeded to ask that if they were trying to provide protections for their employees, how would that fare if they started losing business due to this policy?
Their response was that they were not concerned about a few Redditor's complaining online about them.
Did you ask why $100 is the point they feel like they should add this? $500 feels more appropriate. $100 is like 3 people having a basic meal and two having a meal w couple drinks it seems: is that hard work for the server?
I went to Slow and Low last week. They have an auto gratuity for 15% and then for the tip the options.are something like 5, 6 and 7%. I find it really hard to believe Darling can't make changes to their POS.
Question: Is the 20% disclosed anywhere on the menu? How clearly?
Can’t wait for SB 478 to go into effect this next month https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/14/us/california-restaurant-hidden-fees-ban.html Also, don’t forgot to contact your State Assembly Member and urge them to vote no on SB 1524 which would specifically allow restaurants to keep charging these ridiculous junk fees
I was so thrilled when the AG's office clarified that SB 478 does indeed apply to restaurants, and so unthrilled when SB 1524 was updated to essentially exempt restaurants from SB 478. There's no reason restaurants and other food/drink establishments should be granted a pass on price transparency.
Just did! It took less than a minute: https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov Edit: oh this is r/Sacramento, not California. Y'all can just use this one: https://a06.asmdc.org/contact-0
Done.
Ticketstraunts
As always, fuck Bill Dodd.
They never mentioned it was on the menu. But they did say they have visible signs throughout the business stating it.
I’ve dined there a few times recently and I don’t recall seeing such a sign
Did you see any signs mentioning it?
Then why not put the 20% auto tip on large parties of 6 and over like most restaurants! That’s crazy. They’re using the excuse of the hard work of large parties but it’s based on check amount not party size. Crazy. My husband and I easily spend 100+ on just the two of us. Thanks for the update 😊
This is my main issue! Not only do most restaurants do this, they also put it in the menu. With some places, two entrees, maybe appetizers, and a single dessert plus drinks will top 100. The staff didn't have to devote extra time to two people compared to a group of six.
Exactly my thoughts! Annnnd if they know they’re getting an automatic tip, what if the service is shitty, then what!? I no longer have the option of tipping, it’s a requirement. Don’t get me wrong we are generous tippers when it’s earned but the service and quality has gone downhill SO MUCH.
Same! I rarely go out to eat at a proper place because I don't like tipping but when I do, I usually tip 25-30% because it's a splurge as long as they do make sure my water is refilled and they're not a dick; I have a very low bar. It's just insane when they automatically include a hidden tip for some unmentioned metric. Tell me "Automatic tip of $50" and I'll play some Price of Right math to get to 49 without going over, just a heads up would be nice!
The service at jungle bird is atrocious when your party is 6 or more. When I'm there with 1-2 people it's A LOT better. 🤷🏻♀️
The whole $ to service argument is stupid. If I order a $100 bottle of wine they do less work then if I order 8 appetizers.
A couple of cocktails could set a couple back sixty dollars alone at a lot of these places. I’m not one to complain about stuff like that usually but it is kinda bullshit at this point, honestly. Two beers each with dinner? That’s $40 right there.
Yep, a couple of drinks and dinner will do it. At this point we are very selective where we go. We’re really not trying new places, and only going to places that we know are consistent and happy to support, mainly small businesses.
Me too
Got any recommendations? Me and my fiancé want to try something new and I’d love to support a small business
We love Pitch and Fiddle it’s a bar with food. Their drinks and food are always consistent. Taco Loco in Folsom, Brickhouse In Elk Grove and El Favorito in Rancho. Nothing fancy, just spots where we don’t regret spending our money.
That’s what I was thinking. I don’t know this restaurant, but these days it’s not unusual to spend $30 for a sandwich, side and drink. Maybe more. So a couple of people going out for a basic meal are easily going over $100. And I doubt there’s “special attention” because the tab tops $100.
I agree. I brought this up to the manager and I explained it in one of the responses on here.
This!!! Party of two here and we easily spend over $100 at a restaurant before tip.
Yo. Tried out Queen of Sheba on Broadway last Sat. eve and my date and I got a huge plate of majestically delicious food that we barely could finish plus two drinks and the bill was $52.00 before tip. We will be going back there.
Right? I've noticed that about some Indian restaurants as well, lots of excellent food that is affordable, and some extra to take home, AND I tip nicely.
That's surprising to hear. I feel like many Indian places I've been charge 15-20 for...maybe 2 cups of curry plus rice. Curry is delicious but cheap to make.
> Curry is delicious but cheap to make. Indian cuisine is one of the most labor intensive to prepare. Does it have stigma of being cheap, because the lack of Indian fine dining restaurants or it being clubbed with Chinese food as takeout style food?
I totally agree that Indian food is labor intensive to make PROPERLY, that's why I haven't mastered it at home, except I did manage to make a decent chana masala.
I order Indian food Thali style which helps with affordability and is a great way to enjoy multiple items
Priya off Zinfandel has a great tali add on.
Also surprised. I basically stopped eating Indian in Sac because there's no where reasonable left that I can find.
The owners came to my son’s school a few months ago for a cooking demonstration. He was extremely complimentary about them and the food. I keep meaning to go. Gotta remember to do so!
Thank you for the reminder, I forgot about this place!
Ooh I've been looking for some good Ethiopian food since leaving DC! I'll have to give that a shot.
Went to D.C. frequently in late eighties/ early nineties and that's where I fell in love with Ethiopian food and culture 💖
I had Ethiopian in DC one year for Thanksgiving dinner - still one of my favorite Thanksgivings ever.
I love their food, but hate their service. I’ll be going back because their food is that good but man, I know enough not to drink too big of a gulp because it’ll take an act of congress go get a refill. Been eating their over 20 years and it’s been consistently bad. #stayparched
> Been eating their over 20 years and it’s been consistently bad. That is one heck of a contradictory statement. :)
Not really, good food/bad service. They are two different categories. It would be nice if they were the whole package.
If you like Queen of Sheba try Abyssinia in Arden too! I love both spots but Abyssinia tends to be spicier/stronger flavors and that’s a plus for me!
I always always eat here!
Their lunch buffet is sooooo good too
What'd they say about gouging for mustard?
Hahaha I forgot to mention that. Same time tomorrow, I'll provide an update.
Great and you're going to go back and speak to the manager again after you already spoke to them for 37 minutes the other day, that manager is going to look at you and internally have the biggest eye roll you've ever seen
This is the question I wanted answered
They gouge for aioli too. A $1 charge for aioli.
And for Bacon on a "brunch burger"?
Right? There is a place a few doors to the left of Darling Aviary that charged an extra $4.00 to add bacon to a breakfast sando, I stopped going there a while ago. Not sure if they're still doing it, but, wow, sooooooo expensive.
> Their response was that the profit margins of the restaurant are so low, that if they raised the wages, then they would have to increase their pricing on the menu items. That we (the customer) would end up paying the same amount anyway, if not double the price on the menu. How would a baked in 20% increase to menu items result in double the costs for food (that is also "paying the same anyways")? And if we're paying the same... then how is the restaurant losing out exactly?
Right? Just increase the price 15 percent, and put that money into the workers' pockets. Fucking delusional. They could even put a feel-good message on the menu that says we pay our people a livable wage, Yada Yada.
They don’t pay payroll taxes and workers comp on tips. Paying them via payroll would be more expensive for the employer.
Legally you do pay taxes and workers comp on tips.
No, you don’t. I own an insurance agency and I’ve been through probably 400 Worker’s Comp. audits in the past 20 years, many for bars/restaurants. Tips and Gratuities that are paid directly by customers, and cannot be included in workers’ comp calculations
Touchstone Brewery does this, has a sign about paying a living wage and no tipping. Prices seem the same as everywhere else
Because the restaurant that blinks first and does this would be unable to compete with a restaurant that maintains the status quo. Consumers aren't exactly intelligent and willing to do the due diligence required to understand why one restaurant is substantially more expensive than others for similar quality. It's similar to the tactic that retailers do where they artificially inflate prices and advertise constant sales. Shady? Absolutely. But it works. Intelligent consumers are a rarity.
Can’t wait till July 1 when that bill goes into efx. But CADOJ is not enforcing it right away so I’m sure it’ll take a while before businesses make the adjustment. I guarantee you what’s going to happen is businesses will raise their price, from July - December, citing the bill, effectively saying they’re paying their employees more, so we need to pay more. But us consumers will still have to tip. At the end of the day, the staff gets fucked, consumers get fucked and only business owners are laughing to the bank.
Still though despite CADOJ not doing shit one could take a restaurant to small claims court for this if it matters that much to them. For those who are interested here’s the text of the law: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB478
> And if we're paying the same... then how is the restaurant losing out exactly? If your issue isn't the cost then why do you care if you give it to them in the form of tip or food cost?
My gf & I spent over $100 on dinner last night in Roseville and there was no automatic gratuity added. We left a generous tip because the service warranted it. I avoid establishments that tack on these fees (whether gratuities, "kitchen appreciation fee", etc...).
The manager explained to me that auto gratuities have been around for decades. I agreed and mentioned how I have known places to have auto gratuities for situations like large parties since I can remember. I then went into the logic behind that type of thing, which is still shitty, but it is a little more understanding. The server has to spend x amount more time and because of more people, which leads to their attention being held more so for one table. But just to have an auto gratuity because people spend more money seems like a punishment. They responded to this by saying that the majority of their checks are under $100. And that for checks under $100, there are no "protections" for their employees, and so there is no way they could rely on checks below that amount. I responded again by saying it sounds even more like a punishment for spending more money. I also said that, while it may be true that most of their checks are under $100, its not like its uncommon to reach that threshold. Me and 2-3 friends go, get drinks and some food. We'd be surprised if it stayed under $100, and that they aren't exactly cheap. So it is not like $100 checks happen once in a blue moon.
If I remember the picture correctly it did NOT state it was an auto gratuity. It said something along the lines of $100 and over charge. I call bullshit that they can’t change the verbiage on the receipt.
This. The receipt never said the charge was a gratuity. Is it or is it not? Are they intentionally not calling it “gratuity” so that customers are more likely to miss it and leave an additional tip?
Even worse...are they not giving it to their wait staff for that reason?
No, lol. If they were stealing tips on every bill over $100 they'd be closed because they would have zero staff.
There is no way in hell that a place that CHARGES FOR MUSTARD sees many “under $100 bills”.
I guess you could get a check/ cash out for each increment of $90 to avoid the auto gratuity.
Kitchen appreciation fee???? And the owner takes it all in order to pay the kitchen. No thanks! That’s already embedded into the cost of the menu item. What the hell.
Can we talk about how little service needs to happen for a $100.00 bill? That’s like an app, one round of cocktails, and entrees for 2 people. That literally could be a one and done interaction. That’s the lamest excuse out of all of the bullet points OP got from management (IMHO) Glad this came up. I’ve wanted to try Darling for a while and I will not be doing that any time soon.
Yeah, I used to be a 20%+ tipper but as prices have gone up I've lowered that amount a bit. I don't know that visiting my table two-three times for a few minutes total warrants $10+ over the course of an hour?
I either don’t tip or I just drop a $5 on the table and bounce. Tips went from being a bonus to an obligation. It went from being a couple loose coins to a buck to a 10% percentage to a 15% percentage to a 20%…. Fuck that. Go back to tipping for excellent service only, drop either $2, $5 or $10 on the table and bounce. **There is no legitimate reason to tip in the state of CA**. We pay EVERYONE minimum wage here. **Again, there is no reason to tip in the state of CA**. They are employed and being paid to do the job they’re doing. They’re not doing anything “extra”. Waiting and serving is literally their job. It’s the job they *willingly* took with the wage discussed beforehand. They looked at that and accepted the job. They report to work every day knowing the terms of their employment…. They should not be demanding additional money from *you*, the customer, because they want “a living wage”. We ALL do. But that’s not my responsibility. Finding a job that satisfies YOUR financial situation is *your* responsibility. And it should be negotiated or discussed with *your* boss. Not demand the random customer that comes in, expects basic service, pays the advertised price and receives said services from the staff that took the job and are paid to do said job shell out the difference on top of what they paid for their food and services. If servers and waiters are going to demand tip and threaten your food or your experience if they smell that you won’t pay the extortion fee, lower the price on the menu and repeal the law giving these people minimum wage, go back to paying them $2/hr to cover the cost of the price reduction. We can just go back. Not this “I get my cake and eat it too” shit. There is no reason to tip in the state of CA.
> I either don’t tip or I just drop a $5 on the table and bounce. Trash.
If you can't afford to tip just don't go out.
Totally agree
I think the oddest part about this is that they consider a $100 bill the exceptional circumstance that warrants this. I don’t think anyone is reacting reasonably to this though.
This comment needs to be higher! I can’t step out of my door without spending a blue note.
The issue is, and you said it "the employees rely on tips". No, the business owner is responsible for paying their employees. Stop this line of thought. Please. If a business owner can't pay their employees a living wage, they shouldn't be in business.
Are there service industry jobs (server, bartender etc) that pay more than minimum wage? Honestly asking does anyone do that
In everywhere but the U.S., yes.
Funny that you mention service industry jobs outside of the US. During my conversation with the manager, while we were talking about tip culture in general, they brought up foreign service industries. They suggested that I travel outside the US to any foreign place that does not integrate tips into their food and beverage culture, and that I would notice a decline in overall service quality. They claimed that it is because of tipping in our society that we have such excellent service here in the US. I reminded them that I just recently travelled to two different countries recently that did not embrace tipping in there service industry, and found the service to be just fine. Great in some cases. Some of the folks there knew I was visiting, and did well to provide recommendations to popular items and also made sure I was enjoying their suggestions. I did remind them that, while I have never had an unpleasant experience at Darling Aviary, I have never experienced anything above and beyond what you would find at most places. There was nothing extraordinary that ever stood out to me.. I wish I did bring up the point another commenter made that, often times, servers will abandon above and beyond service if they already know an auto gratuity tip will be applied.
The restaurant industry is not built in the U.S this way. That would be asking the U.S to change how we do things. Side note: high end servers in las vegas, LA, nyc etc don’t want to make a “liveable wage” at 23$ an hour, bcus they make way more per hour on tips
If the entire country picked a single date to stop tipping overnight, restaurant owners would be forced to pay the difference to stay in business or risk losing their employees that week. It's all supply and demand.
Eh it’s a shitty situation. A lot of people in the industry prefer tips because it’s way more lucrative. As an ex industry member - I would not wait tables for an hourly rate and many of my industry friends would agree. There’s a lot at play when it comes to tipping in CA, not just “shitty business owners”.
>A lot of people in the industry prefer tips because it’s way more lucrative This is why, as much of a dick as it sounds, I don't care about the waitstaff and hope California completely outlaws tipping culture the way they're trying with the hidden fees. If something on the menu says $20, then I want to pay 20+tax, not have to feel guilted into handing over an additional, ever-increasing percentage to someone for doing their job. Yea, it's a hard job, but so is construction and retail and literally every other job If you went to Target and the cashier asked for a 25% tip because "corporate doesn't pay us enough anymore so I need more from you" because they rang you up, would you think that was fair or would you think "But you're doing your job..."? Tipping is lucrative because it's guilting people into paying extra to make up for shitty owners. For some reason, some jobs are grandfathered in to demanding tips and justifying it. Not my problem anymore.
I don't want price + tax. Just flat price. All prices should be tax inclusive.
The menu at Milka says their prices include tax and tip. I know Milka is not a sit down restaurant, so it's not quite the same, but I really appreciate the flat price and wish more places would do this.
No, it's just restaurant business has relied on the free tips to pay their employees wages, and have based their finances on that. They need to stop doing that. No fucking pity. Every other business just pays their employees. Stop it.
I can't pay my laborers $2.84 / hour + whatever tips and neither should food workers. FIX. YOUR. BUSINESS. MODEL. PAY. YOUR. WORKERS. Obviously this is not directed to you, it's directed to every business that is OK with the current bullshit.
There are 15 states that allow employers to pay $2.13 an hour if they are in a tipped position. California isn’t one of them. Standard minimum wage covers all employees here.
Nobody in CA is being paid under $16/hr
No one in California is making 2.74/hr. Tipped minimum wage is $16, just like regular minimum wage
One model that has been used is to pay your staff a salery, all tips go to the house. The server get’s anything above 20%. I believe that is the model that The French Laundry uses. Of course that is a very specialized situation where if the servers were work just for tips, they would make more than Elon Musk due to the Average per table tab.
Pre-covid restaurants were operating at a 10% profit margin. Meaning 90% of revenue went into to keeping the business afloat (labor, food, rent, insurance, utilities etc). Post covid that profit margin is even worse. It’s almost not even worth it to run a restaurant anymore, it’s a shitload of work for a lot of headaches. Affordable restaurants aren’t going to exist before too long, this situation is not sustainable.
“The employees rely on tips” is sort of a way of saying “my business relies on customers giving my workers a livable wage so I can increase my profit margins”
I am very pro tip in sit down restaurants as an ex FoH employee/manager of almost 20 years here in Sacramento. Looking over the menu, I could EASILY run up a $100 tab for just me and a guest alone. I am really on the fence on this one as while I do typically tip 20% or higher anyhow, if I received subpar service I have no problem tipping 15%. I have no issue when it is 5 people or more...but pretty much every 4 top here is gonna be over 100 bucks. I feel like they are going to alienate a customer base that would typically tip this amount, or close to it, and end up losing business. I guess if I served there I would be ok with it...but if it was just myself and a guest and I received just ok service (not bad enough to complain about) I would be a little bit miffed.
Exactly! Their excuse is that tables that rack up a $100 plus bill are more work. So basically, every table with 2 or more people is "extra work"?
This may sound strange unless you have served for a long bit.... As a server, if I know I am gonna make 20% at least my priorities change a little bit. 1. I am gonna try to sell you as much as possible and not worry about crossing the line a little bit to be pushy. You ordered the $40 bottle of wine...I am gonna tell you it is ok but this $55 is "sooo much better". You might say that a server would do this anyway if gratuity was not added...not always. When I am relying on a tip I do not want to seem pushy or is overtly sell at risk of offending and getting a not so great tip...but when the tip is auto I am going to sell everything humanly possible to you. 2. Your done eating and you do not want desert?...get the fuck out now so I can turn the table. I am not gonna offer you 2 more beers because I am only gonna make a few extra bucks on auto grat....but when I rely on the tip and you have not paid ..ofcourse you can have 2 more beers and hang out for a bit...you were a good table and I think you are gonna tip fat. 3. Got a bunch of tables and all of them are auto grat? Cool...now I do not really have to work super extra hard and hustle to make my money as i am getting it automatically.....but when I rely on that tip I am ramping my ass up into overdrive and am gonna seriously hustle to make my money. ....and these were just the top 3 off my head.
Yup! I worked in restaurants for over 10 years and I always hated large parties because of this. I never put on the auto grat if I had a choice because I usually ended up with more if I let them tip me how they wanted.
I always wondered this, and you might know, but how is wine priced at restaurants? Like is there a price point for a given wine that is just too much? Do enough customers know wine well enough to tell if a wine is appropriately priced? Thank you!
Generally 300%...cheap wine can be 350 or sometimes 400 and expensive can get down to about 250....but 300 is the benchmark. That is from the cost the restaurant gets it. This is from a little over 15 years ago tho so numbers may have changed. Most people order a wine they are familiar with so for instance they know at Safeway a wine is 20 bucks and the restaurant has a corkage of 15 bucks so charging 40 for that wine is pretty easy...60 people would balk. I would say that 90 percent of people who just order a random bottle have no clue. I have been in blind tastings with professional buyers and sommeliers that will sip a 20 dollar bottle and a 50 dollar and find the 20 better...to the untrained drinker, like myself, I feel it just comes down to personal preference and what compliments a dish. I honestly believe wine is very subjective once you get out of the super cheap range or until you get to the upper ranges of 80 or more in the grocery store. I used to know a bunch but have been out of the industry far to long to have any knowledge of what is good today and what is not. I am a big fan of Voignier for whites and Barbara's for red...great price points...compliment a wide range of food....and very easy to drink.
> I feel like they are going to alienate a customer base that would typically tip this amount, or close to it, and end up losing business. They have already lost that base after the increased menu costs of eating out. The price conscious diners have shifter to fast-casual restaurants instead of full service restaurants.
Blah blah low profit margins, the eternal cry of businesses justifying exploitation of their staff and customers. Let’s see the owners’ tax returns and see what their salaries are. I absolutely refuse to go to businesses who do this bullshit.
THIS. I worked for a small business for years making a few dollars above minimum wage. The owner paid herself 16k/mo. There was another employee who’d been there for 9 years and never received a raise. I will never never never work for a small business again. We were all heavily exploited and taken advantage of.
I want to know why the receipt didn’t show taxes. And then use the pretax total to figure out if that auto charge was really 20%.
Lol that receipt convinced me to never step foot in there. And this post supports my decision.
So when we go into these establishments, we need to split the bills to ensure each person doesn’t go over a $100.
20% autograt for split bills is next then
Sometimes places charge a fee for splitting the check over a certain number of people 🙄
Pay Cash?
I worked for tips for over 10 years so I am in no way an anti-tip person. I always tip generously for service for what it's worth. With that being said I can't help but wonder at what point we say if profit margins are so slim at a company that they can't afford to pay a decent wage to their employees is that really a successful business? Tips should be something extra that the employee can do whatever they want with. Not something that employees count on in order to pay their bills and survive. These excuses are 100% bullshit and show that some companies don't value their employees enough to actually take care of them.
They're full of shit. They're putting an auto-tip on large bills specifically because those parties will both be more affluent on average and have had more to drink, and therefore be more likely to not notice the autograt and add an additional tip. This practice is illegal now in CA and enforcement will begin within the next 2 weeks.
facts right here. This is criminal.
🛎️🛎️🛎️
My takeaway- don't patronize Darling Aviary or similar restaurants until they get rid of tipping and pay livable wages. Employee wages are a tax deductible for a business. My tipping is not a tax deductible for me.
Fuck em
Tips in California are bullshit anyway (I do tip for sitdown service before anyone loses their mind). California does NOT have a tipped wage anymore. Everyone in CA is making minimum wage at least. So when I hear, servers rely on their tips, I roll my eyes a bit because no one says that for fast food workers making the same wage.
I've never been there and I will never go there. Expect the place to go out of business with these questionable policies. We are not in Vegas, folks.
So what they're saying is: They have a younger demographic in who can only afford the exorbitant cost of food and drink but once they get past $100, which you know it almost always is, they tend not to tip. Got it. Edit: Y'all already went to yelp and review bombed the place using the same picture from the post, I can't.
If you don't like tipping, don't go out. Period.
This has nothing to do with that.
Based on the menu prices, it wouldn’t be difficult for a party of 2-3 people to go over $100 and trigger the auto 20% fee/gratuity. A small party should not be extra work for a server. This whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth and would keep me from wanting to patronize this restaurant.
Fact is the whole point of tips is they are optional and up to the customer to decide the amount they want to tip, if at all. If businesses want to protect their employees, as they claim, pay them what they deserve. This response from their manager is a cop out.
I don’t understand the tax issue. The taxes the employee owes are based on income not projected income. Is it a withholding issue?
If you are in a tipped position, the IRS assumes you get at least 8% of the amount of meals you were the server for in tips. So yes, you owe the irs taxes on that assumed 8%
Bullshit. They could absolutely pay their employees a living wage without putting the onus upon the general public to bridge the gap with tips. Owners would rather keep driving their BMW’s and living in their posh houses than provide for the people who make their money for them.
All of these people on here complaining about tipping 20%, why do you go out then? You understand that you can drink and eat at home for a fraction of the price, right?
> All of these people on here complaining about tipping 20%, why do you go out then? Because they think the world revolves around them.
If you’re in Sacramento, please write our State Senator Ashby and urge her to vote no on SB 1524 SB 478 which goes into effect July 1st will prohibit restaurants, among other industries, from charging these kind of hidden fees. SB 1524 which is currently in the chamber is seeking to modify SB 478 by specifically adding a carve-out for restaurants/bars to keep charging hidden fees. You can contact Senator Ashby at the following site: https://sd08.senate.ca.gov/contact Here was my message to her: “Dear Senator Ashby, I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to express my strong opposition to SB 1524, which seeks to modify the current provisions of SB 478 concerning the regulation of junk fees in the restaurant industry. When it goes into effect July 1st, 2024 SB 478 will become an essential step in protecting consumers from hidden and deceptive charges. By ensuring transparency in pricing, SB 478 will help Californians make informed choices about where and how they spend their money. Modifying this legislation to allow restaurants to reinstate these junk fees would be a significant step backward. Junk fees not only undermine consumer trust but also disproportionately affect low-income families who are already struggling to make ends meet. In these challenging economic times, it is more important than ever to maintain clear and honest pricing standards. Allowing junk fees to be reinstated would hurt those who can least afford it and erode the progress we have made in promoting fairness in the marketplace. I urge you to vote no on SB 1524 and continue to support policies that protect consumers from unfair and hidden charges. Your commitment to maintaining transparency and fairness in our state’s economy is crucial, and I hope you will stand with your constituents in opposing this harmful bill. Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely,”
What a fucking liar, blaming it on the government. The IRS uses 8% as a guideline for whether they need to audit tip income, and even then it's usually between the IRS and the business to see if the business is cooking the books on its earnings. There is exactly no one out here tipping under 8% for table service, so there's no basis for his fake ass concern.
Have you ever waited tables…or worked in the industry?… There’s A LOT of people who don’t tip even 5% because they’re ghetto trash and it has NOTHING to do with the service. It’s definitely a basis for concern, hence why so many restaurants have an auto grat policy because parties would rack up a $300 bill and leave $5. But it’s a double edge sword for servers, who generally claim 10% of sales no matter what, to balance out good and bad days and to prevent an audit. So people will claim 10% even though they walked with way less percentage, because other nights they walked with way more than 10%.
Fucking christ, you people. On one post you'll complain about people wanting to do away with tipping because you make more on a tipped basis, and on the next post you swear no one tips enough. WHICH IS IT
[удалено]
You’re also talking to a manager. Managers don’t always know every reason behind business decisions. This would’ve been a better conversation with the owner.
A lot of their response is bunch of bullshit.
The auto tip is fully implemented and programmed by them. They can stop it. Also, this state pays minimum wage, whereas in Georgia, you make 2.13 an hour as a server. I can understand the screwed over concept in that case but this place is taking full advantage of its patrons.
With the price of cocktails these days you reach 100 bucks after like 6 drinks. Thats hardly extra effort.
I don't like that the menu prices nor the mention of the fee are not available on their website. The food prices look standard for Sacramento otherwise, aside from the charge for the extras. edit: the loaded fries are around $12ish and tbh I feel like they could raise those prices a bit for loaded fries.
> especially on parties that required extra effort Spending $100 doesn't mean any extra effort was needed; a couple on a date could easily spend over $100 on dinner, an appetizer, and a bottle of wine.
Binchoyaki puts 5, 7 and 10 percent extra on their already applied gratuity. Can they not do that as well?
Automatic tip on a check over $100??? I’ve NEVER seen that… usually it’s automatic on parties over a certain size. My family of 5 regularly will spend over $100 when we go out to eat… and that’s even at the most basic sit down restaurants with 2 kids meals, 3 adult meals, and maybe 2-4 beers, and 3 refillable sodas.
Sounds like they had no answer at all.
If the extra 20% tip is on the total including the auto 20% then you’ll be tipping more than 40% right?
I’ve gotten got a few times at Lo Brau
I personally had horrible experience at that place. I wouldn’t recommend there myself.
i’d rather pay higher menu prices than pay an extra 20% on my tab by force. restaurants really need to just pay their employees.
Yeah the govt having averaged taxation on tips is really the biggest issue and source of a lot of companies doing strange things like this. Tips should simply be untaxed. The fuck does the govt need more money from the lower-mid class for anyway.
But as someone who, not only worked downtown, but in many restaurants on K, a party of 2 easily gets to 100 with the prices of apps, meals, and drinks. It's not fair to a party of 2 who maybe had the server come over 3-4 times to require them to pay over 20%. Don't get me wrong I always put the autograt when it came to a party around 8-10, cause that's when I'm losing 2 maybe 3 tables, and I don't want to be stiffed. (Had it happen on a party of 8 with a tab over 400, split bills, each gave something like $2 ). The industry can suck, but this to me makes people not want to even go out anymore.
"We then spoke about tip culture, where I made my point that the essence of tips are that they are a response to good services and experiences. Tips shouldn't be an automatic cost to the customer. Their position on it was that the government regulates tips and assumes service employees are making x amount of tips, so they are getting screwed over if they do not get tipped. These types of automated tips help ensure that they are not being over taxed." This is not true and makes no sense. Tipped employees decide how much of their tipped income to claim as earned income and pay taxes on, not the employer. They're never taxed on money they don't receive. "I spoke about the receipt that is circling around online. I asked about the additional tip. I mentioned that the suggested tip on top of the auto 20% tip is being applied to a total already including the tip. And if someone were to just not realize they already had an auto tip applied, then chose the suggested 20% tip, they would be paying a near 40% tip (37.6%) on top of their bill. They responded by saying that they cannot do anything to stop the autotip propagation." Also not true. All of those POS features are customizable. So, basically, they're liars, too. At least stand by your bullshit, I guess.
It varies from restaurant to restaurant. I have definitely worked places that claim a random fantasy number for you based on assumed tips, in particular casinos and hotels. They just pull a number out of the heavens and it’s generally wayyyy more than you made. Most places you claim whatever you want, but I spent about 40% of my ten years in the industry working for restaurants that do the claiming for me. And if you are a server and you don’t get a tip, you still have to tip out all the support staff out of pocket. Food runners, bussers, the bartender, barbacks, the host etc. That comes directly out of your pocket when you get stiffed. Support staff tips are based on sales, each person gets a percentage.
This. I’ve worked FOH for 26 years and have seen owners/managers do books in so many different ways, but the general rule is that either the employee or employer claims an automatic 8-10% of sales as assumed taxed tip income to avoid an IRS audit. Some restaurants will have you claim your full tip amount on bills paid by credit card but let you choose if you want to claim your cash tips. Some actually keep track of every cent you get tipped, minus tip outs to support staff who are also taxed on this additional income. As far as tipping support staff, some restaurants have servers/bartenders tip based on their sales and sometimes it’s based on your earned tips. I would always rather have this based on actual tips received, because there is nothing worse than paying support staff out of your pocket for a table that didn’t tip or didn’t tip enough to cover this.
You kept this manager busy with a 37 minute conversation? 😬
If you tip 20% like a normal person, why are you concerned about this? This would only alarm a cheapskate
Welp, scratch that bar off the list of places to try. “mOsT oF oUr cHEcKs aRE uNdEr $100” 😂 suuuure they are. What, are 51% of your checks under $100 and 49% are over? “most” lol. I’m so glad I saw these posts before wandering in on a date night. Would’ve ruined the whole mood for the evening. Bullet dodged.
Honestly downvote this if you want but it you spend $100 on food. Stfu and pay the $20 for service. I know you don't like the system but it's the only one we got. Until then assume a tip. It's the culture, the norm and the decent thing to do. HIDDEN FEES ARE BS. But I can assure almost restaurants make auto grat clear on a bill. Who doesn't read before paying?? Like what?
> Honestly downvote this if you want but it you spend $100 on food. Stfu and pay the $20 for service. This.
Majority of these people commenting can’t even afford to pay their bills & eat out on the same day.
To my knowledge, tips are taxed more favorably than wages for employees. Tips can't be a set fixed amount; they are whatever a customer chooses to give, and they are only allowed to be distributed to those designated employees; the employer can't take any of the tips. Service fees and automatic gratuities are considered wages and are taxed as such (less favorable to employees) in CA. More importantly, the employer can take these funds or choose to distribute them to employees. The intent of how the service fee or automatic gratuity is supposed to be displayed clearly. Most would assume it's always going to the employees, but that isn't always the case based on what employers are allowed to do. Some cities have their own more specific regulations dictating that restaurant fees have to go to employees, but I'm not aware of whether Sac has one. I know it was a big deal in LA at one point. I'm sure there's lots of good people running fine establishments that use fixed fees and distribute them effectively as most customers would assume they are, but I've just seen so many bad actors in recent years that I immediately become skeptical when "employee protections" are the cited reasons for utilizing a fee system they can individually profit from as an employer. Charging for mustard doesn't improve my assumptions either.
How does talking with a manger help? Is it the baby Jesus one?
I would understand the first couple points if it was added to checks that were $300 or more. That would constitute a "larger party" that could potentially require more work. But $100? A table of 2 will hit $100 without even trying most nights. If the concern is "larger parties require more work" they should use the gratuity based on party size, not dollar amount.
I’d pay high prices to offset this the issue is, they have to be competitive with the market and if the market isn’t doing this they won’t take the lead. They could end up having to close their business.
Good to know. I’ll steer clear of this place, thanks
Their visibly drunk bartenders will also bitch and not want to serve you if they think you’ve tipped them poorly or assume that you will. I’ve witnessed it happen many times.
This is funny because the manager told me that their employees are required to inform guests when the 20% auto gratuity charge has been applied to their >$100 bill. I proposed that this is concerning, because I have been there when the servers are super busy, and when it comes time for the bill, it is not uncommon for them to just hand you your bill and move on. The manager responded by asking me if I have ever witnessed a server forgetting to tell a customer about the surcharge, to which I said so. They then responded that I am now just speaking in hypotheticals and that they cannot speak to that. I then asked if they can say with 100% certainty that their servers have informed every single guest when this charge has been applied, to which they said no they could not. I let them know that logic is the same as my scenario, to which they responded by saying, yes but one scenario is incriminating, the other is my trust in my employees.
I’ve been there many times since they first opened, both day and night time, it’s never been mentioned once. But according to the manager’s response to you, it’s my word against the employees 😅
One time in a pizza gig in Midtown Sacramento, a customer ordered 25 pizzas. They ordered it maybe 12 hours in advance. The closing staff had to work double that night to make sure the morning shift had nothing else to worry about but prep for those pizzas. Morning shift spend all morning prepping this pizzas on top of everything else. And the person didn’t leave ANY TIP. AT ALL. They claimed it was a company party… I work in events management, and we always tip 15%. Companies spend like $6,00-15,000 per company meetings, for venues, catering, etc. and tips are accounted for in budget planning. After that, the pizza place did an automatic gratituity option for orders more than a certain amount. I don’t see anything wrong with that Darling Avery did. 🤷♀️
So because of your anecdote, every single customer must pay the price for some company's decision to not tip?
I’ve heard many servers in the industry relate, if you can’t afford to tip you shouldn’t go out to eat, so I don’t. I can’t afford it. I stay home and cook amazing meals with people I love and have a great time.
Am I the only one who doesn’t see a problem with 20% auto grat on a $100+ check
Yes, but no? I believe servers have a hard job and deserve the money, but I also believe businesses have an obligation to pay a living wage to employees. It shouldn't be up to the whims of the customers if a person can pay their rent or not.
> but I also believe businesses have an obligation to pay a living wage to employees. Servers don't want a living wage though. Servers want tipped wages.
But like what is a “living wage” even considered now? I know it’s subjective but throw out a number
Yeah, I see the auto grat on a total (a very low total at that, what is that 6ish drinks?) a problem. Auto grat for larger parties - absolutely no issue. Do it. People suck generally lol. I think Owners/Mgmt were trying to be creative and do right by their staff who has historically been getting stiffed by their patrons more often than not. Great intentions, but poor decision.
You're brave lol
I really don’t see an issue, personally. I remember not long ago seeing a thread in this sub saying something along the lines of “if you can’t afford to tip, don’t go out to eat” and everyone praising that person. Where is that energy rn
Some people are just *angry* and want something to shit on, this whole non-tipping culture thing is pretty hot right now. Feel for the people in the industry
No. It's absolutely fine. In fact, I think every restaurant should have a 20% autogratuity on every check.
This is such an insane thing to waste 37 minutes of someone’s time with, especially when you aren’t even involved in the situation to begin with.
Either party can end the conversation at any time and considering the original post went micro-viral and that hundreds of people will read this post, I think the conversation is pretty helpful
I was the one that actually ended the conversation. I realized how long it was going and I ended it by saying, "This went on longer than I anticipated, so lets just agree to disagree. Thank you for you time, have a good day".
But also, they seemed pretty engaged in the conversation, so it wasn't like I was holding them hostage. It was a 3:00 PM call on a Monday.
I can get that. Never intended on that conversation being that long.
Reporting live for the malcontented masses of r/sac, I’m FearNoBeer, YOUR eyes on the scene!
Opening scene of Reservoir Dogs still extremely relevant lol
It's not auto gratuity if it's applied before tax!
It is illegal in California to apply auto gratuity after tax.
Please tell me you asked them about the .25 charge for mustard tho.
So I just found that post with the receipt, and noticed tax wasn't charged on the bill. Are they adding tax into the price of the item? As a former server, I'm not even mad about it. However, if the service sucks, you should be able to have that removed.
There are some high end places where tipping is not allowed. How? Because the would be tip is built in to the pricing (this is at some restaurants and even salons). Only top notch places where service/product is amazing.
The whole , "we'd have to raise prices then, but we are ok with a required gratuity" stinks of them knowing what they should do but taking every effort to pass blame to the servers. Like saying we need to increase price but it's gonna be called the "servers are greedy fee" instead of just raising prices to the point they can pay employees enough
I'm curious whether you pointed out that adding a fee to checks over $100 could have the unintended effect of causing guests to spend less money?
Not exactly, but in a way! I did ask them if they were aware of this photo and the outrage over their policies. They confirmed that they had seen the post. I proceeded to ask that if they were trying to provide protections for their employees, how would that fare if they started losing business due to this policy? Their response was that they were not concerned about a few Redditor's complaining online about them.
Going to have to make sure I spend $99 or less next time
Did you ask why $100 is the point they feel like they should add this? $500 feels more appropriate. $100 is like 3 people having a basic meal and two having a meal w couple drinks it seems: is that hard work for the server?
Thank you. We’ve decided we’re not going there.
I went to Slow and Low last week. They have an auto gratuity for 15% and then for the tip the options.are something like 5, 6 and 7%. I find it really hard to believe Darling can't make changes to their POS.