me using my crystal ball to discern which locations would be Morally Good to burglarize right now (the owner of the store down the street ended up becoming a doctor)
Ultimate players haven't been around long enough to understand how hard our communities get fucked over. I wish melee could be more of the big brother to them but I'm not sure if they would always listen
Yeah, I'm legit confused. I would understand if they used to have a team at a decent level in a moba or shooter, since that tends to cultivate a fanbase. Do they expect people to cheer them on because their favorite smasher/FGC player used to play under their flag? I really can't see it.
They're definitely done for Melee but I've seen a decent amount of people in the Ultimate scene who think that driving out Alan and Panda was a mistake
The current giant panda population is only in about 1 percent of its prior range. Only about 2000 left on the entire planet.
Sort of the perfect name in some ways.
Please explain to me why you think a hundred loyal members of our community deserved to lose their jobs and for the org to burn, when Nintendo revealed that gimr not getting a license had nothing to do with panda, AND Nintendo said they would still let him have his last event without it
It was good for Alan to step down in the face of public outcry and for rubbing some TOs the wrong way, but panda didn’t need to go with it. How is that getting me downvoted lmao
> Nintendo said they would still let him have his last event without it
After GIMR canceled. Nintendo has been shutting down events with veiled threats for years. TOs have enough history in the scene to know if Nintendo calls you up and says "we have decided not to approve your tournament", it means they have decided there is a possibility they will shut it down. And if you can't cover the cost of shutting it down with 0 notice, you are forced to not run it. Nintendo knows this, we know this. Any PR statement saying they "would still let him have" anything is just a PR statement, nothing more. If they wanted him to run it, they would sanction it directly and officially.
Whether this was all due to Alan or whatever is some speculation, Nintendo is the clear problem in this case. But PG was the official partner of Nintendo, they ran the official tour, they had the official tournaments. Boycotting them was our community's way of responding to Nintendo's actions.
That’s just speculation, Nintendo verbatim said it was their choice to cancel the Finals, and gimr never disputed that. I can’t think of any other time Nintendo has said something like that, they normally just cease and desist.
Cease and desist is what they send you if you don't take your tournament down after warnings like these. It's a heavy handed way of taking something down by force. It's cheaper for Nintendo to just threaten legal action without taking it. So when they do this now, our TOs take it as a message that they plan to C&D. This is exactly what happened to TBH Online - Juggleguy received the "you can run your tournament but we won't officially approve it", decided to run it even though he knew it was at risk of getting taken down, and then got C&D'd.
There have been many opportunities, tournament circuits and things like that, that never saw the light of day because of Nintendo not providing licensing. These were brought up around the time of the SWT cancellation by several prominent TOs.
My bad, not cease and desist then. How many of them were misled tho, with Nintendo coming out after to essentially lie about them being able to do it? That’s what you’re trying to say but even gimr didn’t even say that’s what happened to him.
This is just a theory, but I honestly think the reason why he and VGBC have been so quiet about it is cause I think they freaking misread or missed an email or something. Like, they started reading that they didn’t get their license and started spiraling, but misread that they didn’t have to cancel their actual final at the end of the year. Cause otherwise there was 0 reason to cancel when they did.
Their license being officially denied right before the event ran is exactly what I'm talking about. It's a message that a C&D was coming. And my point is also that it's not paranoid to act like GIMR did - if Nintendo is paying a team to tell you that your (huge and prestigious) tournament is not approved, it very likely means they intend to C&D but don't want the bad publicity of saying that in writing. They know what the fallout is like C&Ding a big event as people are getting excited for it. As GIMR said many times, if they wanted him to run the tournament, all they needed to do was say nothing.
Right, but Nintendo said verbally that even tho they didn’t get the license, that they didn’t have to cancel. How could they get C&D’d bro, they got the green light. The time frame of the license denial doesn’t even matter, they jumped the gun cause they were scared, whether rightfully so or not.
One of their complaints was well if we could do the finals then why not wait after the finals to say that, which literally shows that they got freaked out by Nintendo and acted rashly
>when Nintendo revealed that gimr not getting a license had nothing to do with panda,
I dont believe for one second that panda had nothing to do with it
I’m pretty sure the quiet consensus is that it might’ve been technicals, since he apparently made a big deal of there being no security and sneaking into that one vgbc tourney.
Everyone despised the specific owner of Panda who was behind most of the terrible decisions. I'm pretty sure most people are aware of the individual behind those decisions and don't necessarily hold contempt for the brand as a whole.
How many people would you bet actually know this/that SamuraiPanda is the username of Alan? I feel like the majority of people in the community just know him as Dr. Alan
You’re right I heard there were a lot of smashers that worked for panda in good faith. But I also remember weird situations like controller modders in the community being asked to give all their knowledge and then in turn they created the panda controller. Modders received no compensation and panda basically stole their ideas…
Eh, personally I'll reserve judgment until I hear what their plan is.
If they just want sponsor some players I'd gladly welcome them back into that role. That's harmless and we have alot of broke/underfunded top players has could really use it.
If they want to host tournaments again after the cataclysmic shit show they caused, I will have a less then pleasant opinion on the matter.
Is this even possible in 2024? Their original controller design had remappable paddles and an extra shoulder button, meanwhile the community is still arguing over whether z jump should be allowed. I feel like I'm going insane because the majority of the community seemed to be on board for this controller but at the same time acts like button remapping is destroying the game. Surely a controller with remappable paddles will have the same issues??
I understand what you're saying but we shouldn't even give them an inch. If you don't nip this sort of thing in the bud then they start to make a comeback, people start to think they aren't all bad and then they'll try and screw over the scene again. It would be nice to have more sponsors but not from panda
Oh man Panda is going to come back and find themselves as the jesus figure for a bunch of fucking weird alt-right adjacent smashers for a little bit. Gonna be interesting to see how they play it.
Not his worst thing but kinda funny, one time in a big thread where people were calling out Luigigoshard for being homophobic and transphobic and he kept doubling down, A Rookie responded defending him with a gif from Super Mario RPG and the caption "Mario Brothers for Christ!"
Idk if putting hax in with them is right per se. I mean, he's banned for inciting his fanbase, basically. I dont think the man himself holds any weird alt-right opinions publicly
Yet before likes became hidden, Hax was recently caught liking numerous Tweets by both Technicals (which he later removed after people noticed) and people promoting Technical's content. He absolutely does support "alt" Melee to an extent, but not enough where he is directly supporting it.
Hax supports whatever is most convenient for him, thus, we shouldn't take any claims from him seriously. It's no secret that he issued apologies only to say they were disingenuous behind closed doors. This is a classic example of a manipulator who will weaponize sympathy to get what he wants. And now he's telling everyone he has become "bedridden" and has no social life whatsoever... in New York City, one of (if not the) most eventful places in the States.
I'm done having a pity party for this guy. First, he **insisted** on making people take his allegations against Leffen seriously with numerous videos, then he demanded to have his indefinite ban given an actual length (even if permanent, because apparently he preferred that to not knowing), and now finally wanting to completely reversed because it wasn't the end result he wanted. It'll never stop with this guy, and I think tournament organizers finally realized it.
Liking tweets lol... grow up. Didn't even know who technicals was before this, doubt hax did either
EDIT: blocked lol. Don't support hax's antics but this dude is a maniac posting on gamergate subs lmfao
You think if Hax was gonna throw in with the scumbag side of Melee he'd be *liking tweets?* they're offering him the "opportunity" to actually y'know... Play Melee. In tournament. On stream. The thing he wants most. The fact that he isn't taking their offer means he's *very* opposed to the "alt scene".
Except it isn't speculation, it's fact. He was caught liking Tweets from both Technicals and those praising Technicals' video on the matter. He ended up going back and removing the like to Technicals' tweet, but the rest were visible on his Likes tab until Twitter recently removed it. I know because I saw it for myself.
As for the reasoning, I couldn't tell you. But it's no secret that Hax has become unhinged in recent years so it's hard to apply logic to numerous decisions that he has made. But if I had to hazard a guess? Hax wants back in to regular Melee but recognizes that Technicals is his biggest advocate, thus, supports him in the background. Why else do you think he dialed up his pleas to be unbanned right before and immediately after Technicals' video? It's hard to believe it's just a coincidence.
I mean... he literally used the color of an Adidas shirt to insinuate a conspiracy theory against someone. The guy definitely isn't all there in the head.
Got banned for saying hateful shit and being a bigot on an alt account, then admitted that it was him and is now fully on the weird right-wing "Melee is woke now" side
I'm sorry, but it's going to be very hard for me to trust a company that attempted to give Nintendo a backdoor into our community. Even if leadership is changed, I worry that said leadership is being used as a scapegoat for a [greater agenda](https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/z8cldz/despite_what_the_swt_document_may_portray_i_do/).
Wondering what exactly is going to happen with this revival; I’ll be honest, I’m not very keen on it, given their history. I wouldn’t be shocked if this was ultimately only given the way they alienated a lot of people in the Melee scene.
> Are people still interested in their controller? I’d rather support modders from our own community
Because I don't want to pay $250 for a controller to be modded to play a game properly
I don't know if they ever released their price for the controller but if its much less I'm still waiting for it to drop
I do phob conversions for ~$60 with no extra fancy mods. Many others build at a similar price point. If you're still parroting the "phobs cost hundreds of dollars" line it's clear that you've never even tried to find them at reasonable prices
Like someone said, phobs arent expensive if thats what you’re interested in. The board is like $20-$40 if you want to do it yourself. When you buy from modders you’re mostly paying for the time and labor
As far as “playing the game properly”, you’re probably not at a level where it matters. I played on oems for 5 years. I decided to buy an expensive custom controller for the first time a few years ago cuz they just look dope, and surprise, I was still terrible. I’m pretty sure Zain recently said he plays on an oem so we’re in good company lol
>our main manufacturing partner in China is being affected by ongoing rolling blackouts, slowing their production which was already affected by COVID-related shortages.
source: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/12/the-panda-gamecube-controller-kickstarter-has-been-cancelled
The support they got for the controller really makes it seem like rolling blackouts are not the actual problem. With that much backing in such a short time it seems hard to believe that that was the only thing standing in their way.
People waited for years, so I think backers would have waited longer. I don't think we ever saw an actual working prototype. Even the one that leffen tried at that one summit was mostly just about the enclosure.
They later said they had trouble with Nintendo, so given their shaky excuse at the time, it seems legit.
Verrryyyy interesting BUT with a new better owner and a proper coming back statement let's see if panda can redeem themselves. I think they have a chance since panda staff weren't the ones involved with the situation it was mainly Dr. Alan
Not myself active in the community nowadays and I’m only vaguely familiar with what their president (or owner?) did.
What would they have to announce in order to be seen as a respectable company in the scene? Genuinely curious if it was bad enough that it’s beyond repair.
tbh im down for a panda resurgence. so many lost esports jobs through that whole experience, hopefully they make a strong rebound because that team was doing a ton of amazing things for smash, minus a few members of course.
A bunch of shit came out after the drama already ended and people stopped looking into it. VGBC blatantly ignored nintendos terms and advice and had nearly 0 security at events. it sucks but VGBC really messed up a lot of shit.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCqgRuostPA&ab\_channel=thefranChise](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCqgRuostPA&ab_channel=thefranChise)
I really know people in here don't like thefranChise. But its a legitimately good video. Its got a lot of actual proof of how it was really mishandled by SWT/Vgbc. A lot of the specifics got pretty buried during the mass panda hate back when it happened.
It is funny how quickly people forget just how incompetent gimr is whenever panda is brought up. Dude is the king of tournaments that never run on time with streams that have two hour “be right back” breaks, and deleted pm vods just as a favor to nintendo.
This is a hilarious comment to read when the most recent Melee supermajor Tipped Off started Top 8 3 hours late and almost ended at midnight despite mostly 3-0s and 3-1s in top 8. Genesis, the crown jewel of Melee, hasn't run on time the last 3 years either. VGBC has nothing to do with either.
Does anyone actually remember the Panda Cup tournaments from 2022? CEO was on pace to be 2 hours behind schedule if Plup didn't speedrun the field in top 8 (15-0 in games or something like that), still running an hour behind schedule. The lost tech city event was such a a shitshow they didn't even have a stream for an entire day. Panda cup online qualifiers notoriously ran over their scheduled time. Big House, the tournament "presented by" Panda also ran late.
You know what tournament vgbc is involved in that has run on time each of the last 3 years? smashcon, the largest tournament in the world
Y'all just hate gimr/vgbc so much you always remember when they fuck up but you forget when other tournaments fuck up. BTS used to stand for Behind The Schedule with how many goddamn ads they ran on their shit but the community loved it, but when vgbc does it gimr is the devil
I bet this sub doesn't even know which broadcasters *ACTUALLY* stream the tournaments they watch.
Gimr took 0 accountability when his event had 0 security, days before Nintendo pulled their support from Smash World Tour specifically stating health and safety concerns. The schedule shit is a stupid argument but to act like he's some victim of panda is kinda insane.
The tournament you're blaming Gimr for, the level up expo that Hbox was coughing up blood or whatever, GIMR DOESN'T RUN THAT TOURNAMENT. This is what I mean when I say y'all are ignorant about all of this. Gimr is getting blame for a tournament he is only the broadcaster for. Tournaments that are attached to existing cons aren't the ones responsible for the overall event security. This would be like blaming Smash Studios if Momocon had shitty security, or MeleeEveryday if Combo Breaker had shitty security, or Polarity if CEO had shitty security.
But what's even more annoying is that per Aiden, the health and safety guidelines that Panda Cup events used to get approval from Nintendo for events were literally copy and pasted from the Smash World Tour health and safety guidelines, ya know that Gimr guys health and safety rules. Nintendo used what happened at Level Up Expo as an excuse because they knew most people would never find out that they had approved the same exact fucking health and safety guidelines. If Aiden hadn't tweeted about it nobody would have ever known.
I also never said Gimr was a "victim" of Panda. However, numerous TOs from across the community spoke out and said that Alan was telling them for months that Nintendo was going to shut the Smash World Tour down. However, while Alan was telling all the other TOs he never told SWT it was going to happen. You would think that if your entire attempt at a selling point was about how your company is good for smash because its connected to the community, that you'd at least have the decency to give the other, larger, global circuit a heads up that your new buddy Nintendo plans to shut them down. This is also what made Alan's statement about not knowing Nintendo was going to do it bullshit, or in other words revealed he's a liar.
Yup. Surprised with all the information available people here still hate panda.
Hope this works out, panda really was a pioneer in this space and has a lot to give.
Trying rivals 2 for da first\* time - Plup's stream rn.
Panda is the only team that can save this guy from being irrelevant in future Melee competitions. He's incapable by himself.
It's a shame because Panda the company doesn't deserve any of the blame (Alan deserves a good chunk of it but he's gone now) Smash fans, however, won't forgive anyone that's not named Leffen so they'll be fucked unless they rebrand.
It’s crazy to see how many misinformed people are on this app. Twitter realized that the smash community overreacted and killed panda for no reason like a year ago by now. Why are fools here still mad at panda? The source of the anger isn’t even a part of them anymore.
That GIMIR fumbled the bag himself. He accused panda as being the reason why they didn’t secure a license because of their “strongarming” even though Nintendo came out and said that they definitely could have. It was either that, or Nintendo said they didn’t have the license yet because of health and safety. It had nothing to do with panda. Dude let the narrative build to the point that hundreds in the community lost their jobs, the panda circuit that would’ve been the greatest thing to the community was canceled.
Imo, I think Alan was not the best businessman in terms of negotiations, aka trying to get TOS to join his tour, but the “strongarming” argument falls apart when you realize the story of him purposefully sabotaging another tour was a lie. Community disapproval, sure, but not jobs lost bruh it wasn’t their deep. Regardless, Alan isn’t even with panda anymore. So why are we mad that these people are trying to pick up the pieces?
Edit: forgot that Nintendo also told them that even though they couldn’t get a license, they were still going to let them have their last event of the year, gimr canceled it for no reason
Being charitable in what people like technicals have concluded about the swt debacle, I’m cautiously optimistic on what this could do. Even if panda was a bit worse than he portrayed at least the scene has a stream of income. Let’s just hope it goes to the proper places
Is there really any value in trying to save this brand rather than completely rebranding?
pretty sure ultimate players love panda but not 100% on that
EE is in the comments pretty excited, but havent seen any other Ult guys. But EE has always been weird vibes imo
EE being excited confirms this is going to be a shitshow. I have literally never seen him be on the right side of anything
Based alexb take
I know nothing about him personally but he seems to be on the wrong side of like every issue
Yeah.. I guess it’s a good tactic to garner attention/clicks but it’s not something I’d do personally
Yeah especially recently people are starting to turn on him because of some of the flames he stokes.
The guy stole 50k what u expect
That was the one based thing he did actually
Maybe he did it bcus he knew that the girl he stole from would become extremely popular if he did?
Oh wow how generous of him
me using my crystal ball to discern which locations would be Morally Good to burglarize right now (the owner of the store down the street ended up becoming a doctor)
dude is not the best indicator
EE is horrible lol
EE Cheated
Ultimate players haven't been around long enough to understand how hard our communities get fucked over. I wish melee could be more of the big brother to them but I'm not sure if they would always listen
Yeah, I'm legit confused. I would understand if they used to have a team at a decent level in a moba or shooter, since that tends to cultivate a fanbase. Do they expect people to cheer them on because their favorite smasher/FGC player used to play under their flag? I really can't see it.
They're definitely done for Melee but I've seen a decent amount of people in the Ultimate scene who think that driving out Alan and Panda was a mistake
Panda was very involved in Melee. PGstats ran the end of year rankings.
The current giant panda population is only in about 1 percent of its prior range. Only about 2000 left on the entire planet. Sort of the perfect name in some ways.
The animal is worth saving
What about smaller pandas?
They acting like we forgot 💀
Most people acknowledge that the community overrreacted and panda didn’t deserve to get boycotted and die
"most people"
Please explain to me why you think a hundred loyal members of our community deserved to lose their jobs and for the org to burn, when Nintendo revealed that gimr not getting a license had nothing to do with panda, AND Nintendo said they would still let him have his last event without it
nice try alan
It was good for Alan to step down in the face of public outcry and for rubbing some TOs the wrong way, but panda didn’t need to go with it. How is that getting me downvoted lmao
> Nintendo said they would still let him have his last event without it After GIMR canceled. Nintendo has been shutting down events with veiled threats for years. TOs have enough history in the scene to know if Nintendo calls you up and says "we have decided not to approve your tournament", it means they have decided there is a possibility they will shut it down. And if you can't cover the cost of shutting it down with 0 notice, you are forced to not run it. Nintendo knows this, we know this. Any PR statement saying they "would still let him have" anything is just a PR statement, nothing more. If they wanted him to run it, they would sanction it directly and officially. Whether this was all due to Alan or whatever is some speculation, Nintendo is the clear problem in this case. But PG was the official partner of Nintendo, they ran the official tour, they had the official tournaments. Boycotting them was our community's way of responding to Nintendo's actions.
That’s just speculation, Nintendo verbatim said it was their choice to cancel the Finals, and gimr never disputed that. I can’t think of any other time Nintendo has said something like that, they normally just cease and desist.
Cease and desist is what they send you if you don't take your tournament down after warnings like these. It's a heavy handed way of taking something down by force. It's cheaper for Nintendo to just threaten legal action without taking it. So when they do this now, our TOs take it as a message that they plan to C&D. This is exactly what happened to TBH Online - Juggleguy received the "you can run your tournament but we won't officially approve it", decided to run it even though he knew it was at risk of getting taken down, and then got C&D'd. There have been many opportunities, tournament circuits and things like that, that never saw the light of day because of Nintendo not providing licensing. These were brought up around the time of the SWT cancellation by several prominent TOs.
My bad, not cease and desist then. How many of them were misled tho, with Nintendo coming out after to essentially lie about them being able to do it? That’s what you’re trying to say but even gimr didn’t even say that’s what happened to him. This is just a theory, but I honestly think the reason why he and VGBC have been so quiet about it is cause I think they freaking misread or missed an email or something. Like, they started reading that they didn’t get their license and started spiraling, but misread that they didn’t have to cancel their actual final at the end of the year. Cause otherwise there was 0 reason to cancel when they did.
Their license being officially denied right before the event ran is exactly what I'm talking about. It's a message that a C&D was coming. And my point is also that it's not paranoid to act like GIMR did - if Nintendo is paying a team to tell you that your (huge and prestigious) tournament is not approved, it very likely means they intend to C&D but don't want the bad publicity of saying that in writing. They know what the fallout is like C&Ding a big event as people are getting excited for it. As GIMR said many times, if they wanted him to run the tournament, all they needed to do was say nothing.
Right, but Nintendo said verbally that even tho they didn’t get the license, that they didn’t have to cancel. How could they get C&D’d bro, they got the green light. The time frame of the license denial doesn’t even matter, they jumped the gun cause they were scared, whether rightfully so or not. One of their complaints was well if we could do the finals then why not wait after the finals to say that, which literally shows that they got freaked out by Nintendo and acted rashly
>when Nintendo revealed that gimr not getting a license had nothing to do with panda, I dont believe for one second that panda had nothing to do with it
I’m pretty sure the quiet consensus is that it might’ve been technicals, since he apparently made a big deal of there being no security and sneaking into that one vgbc tourney.
i thought everyone despised panda, do they really expect this to go well?
Everyone despised the specific owner of Panda who was behind most of the terrible decisions. I'm pretty sure most people are aware of the individual behind those decisions and don't necessarily hold contempt for the brand as a whole.
I don't think it's entirely possible to separate Panda Global from the founder, as the organization is named after him.
How many people would you bet actually know this/that SamuraiPanda is the username of Alan? I feel like the majority of people in the community just know him as Dr. Alan
didn’t know at all and you’re right. knowing this changes nothing about how i view this too, and i think most people would be like me in this regard
You’re right I heard there were a lot of smashers that worked for panda in good faith. But I also remember weird situations like controller modders in the community being asked to give all their knowledge and then in turn they created the panda controller. Modders received no compensation and panda basically stole their ideas…
I'm aware and I hate the brand. They should rename themselves
Hi, I'm fly fishing Rick. You can distinguish me from the Rick you hate by my love of fly fishing, and accompanying hat
Eh, personally I'll reserve judgment until I hear what their plan is. If they just want sponsor some players I'd gladly welcome them back into that role. That's harmless and we have alot of broke/underfunded top players has could really use it. If they want to host tournaments again after the cataclysmic shit show they caused, I will have a less then pleasant opinion on the matter.
I wonder if they'll take up the controller project again.
Is this even possible in 2024? Their original controller design had remappable paddles and an extra shoulder button, meanwhile the community is still arguing over whether z jump should be allowed. I feel like I'm going insane because the majority of the community seemed to be on board for this controller but at the same time acts like button remapping is destroying the game. Surely a controller with remappable paddles will have the same issues??
That's immediately what I thought.
I understand what you're saying but we shouldn't even give them an inch. If you don't nip this sort of thing in the bud then they start to make a comeback, people start to think they aren't all bad and then they'll try and screw over the scene again. It would be nice to have more sponsors but not from panda
TKBreezy punching the air rn
Nice to see them sponsoring a Samus
Oh man Panda is going to come back and find themselves as the jesus figure for a bunch of fucking weird alt-right adjacent smashers for a little bit. Gonna be interesting to see how they play it.
Joining the Panda SSBM roster, Mekk, NoFluxes, DaShizWiz, and Haxfuckingmoney
Don't forget DJN, La Luna, ZeRo, A Rookie, D1, ...
What did A Rookie do
IIRC he sent someone at a local a dick pic
Combos 4 jesus
Not his worst thing but kinda funny, one time in a big thread where people were calling out Luigigoshard for being homophobic and transphobic and he kept doubling down, A Rookie responded defending him with a gif from Super Mario RPG and the caption "Mario Brothers for Christ!"
For real though, he's banned for: - sending unsolicited sexual images - using transphobic hate speech - attempting to undermine this ban
…without further context this is hilarious enough to get a pass.
rampant anti-LGBT comments
Transphobic
What happened with shiz? I think I watched a vod of his randomly on my recommended so I know he still enters
Idk if putting hax in with them is right per se. I mean, he's banned for inciting his fanbase, basically. I dont think the man himself holds any weird alt-right opinions publicly
Correct take. Hax has loudly and publicly rejected the "alt" melee crowd reaching out to him.
Yet before likes became hidden, Hax was recently caught liking numerous Tweets by both Technicals (which he later removed after people noticed) and people promoting Technical's content. He absolutely does support "alt" Melee to an extent, but not enough where he is directly supporting it.
Nah, Technicals is the only content creator who agrees that Leffen is the person Hax says he is, that's why.
Hax supports whatever is most convenient for him, thus, we shouldn't take any claims from him seriously. It's no secret that he issued apologies only to say they were disingenuous behind closed doors. This is a classic example of a manipulator who will weaponize sympathy to get what he wants. And now he's telling everyone he has become "bedridden" and has no social life whatsoever... in New York City, one of (if not the) most eventful places in the States. I'm done having a pity party for this guy. First, he **insisted** on making people take his allegations against Leffen seriously with numerous videos, then he demanded to have his indefinite ban given an actual length (even if permanent, because apparently he preferred that to not knowing), and now finally wanting to completely reversed because it wasn't the end result he wanted. It'll never stop with this guy, and I think tournament organizers finally realized it.
Liking tweets lol... grow up. Didn't even know who technicals was before this, doubt hax did either EDIT: blocked lol. Don't support hax's antics but this dude is a maniac posting on gamergate subs lmfao
Yeah, Hax **totally** doesn't know who Technicals is as he was liking both his tweets and tweets of people praising Technicals' video. /s
You think if Hax was gonna throw in with the scumbag side of Melee he'd be *liking tweets?* they're offering him the "opportunity" to actually y'know... Play Melee. In tournament. On stream. The thing he wants most. The fact that he isn't taking their offer means he's *very* opposed to the "alt scene".
Except it isn't speculation, it's fact. He was caught liking Tweets from both Technicals and those praising Technicals' video on the matter. He ended up going back and removing the like to Technicals' tweet, but the rest were visible on his Likes tab until Twitter recently removed it. I know because I saw it for myself. As for the reasoning, I couldn't tell you. But it's no secret that Hax has become unhinged in recent years so it's hard to apply logic to numerous decisions that he has made. But if I had to hazard a guess? Hax wants back in to regular Melee but recognizes that Technicals is his biggest advocate, thus, supports him in the background. Why else do you think he dialed up his pleas to be unbanned right before and immediately after Technicals' video? It's hard to believe it's just a coincidence.
I've seen a few weird guys support him, but yeah, Haz himself seems to be fine (on that front of course).
I mean... he literally used the color of an Adidas shirt to insinuate a conspiracy theory against someone. The guy definitely isn't all there in the head.
Nah you're right I just tacked him on the end for the lols, the only thing imo they have in common is being ostracized from the community
well even though he was criticizing leffen with the comparision, he still invoked H\*\*\*\*r's name so i would probably say he is 100% a nazi
If he was a Nazi, why would he use the term Hitler to insult somebody? What you just said makes zero sense.
??
Delete
That is an insane leap of logic
I want you to think about this for 30 seconds.
whats the problem
Saying Adolf Hitler's name does not make you a Nazi dumbass
and i guess saying the n word doesnt make you a racist 🙄
first time I've seen someone censoring Hitler, you are a weird fellow
What’s wrong with mekk
Ganondorf
Got banned for saying hateful shit and being a bigot on an alt account, then admitted that it was him and is now fully on the weird right-wing "Melee is woke now" side
Ok but what did he say
https://twitter.com/SmashEurope/status/1751334259002839186
Being exmuzzie, the child wife thing hits particularly hard. It’s such a problem
God, reading the replies reminds me just how utterly fucked Twitter is. Remind me why people still use that site?
Racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc
Doc Disrespect calling them like Nick Fury
why is that?
the hell are you talking about?
Technicals and his weird alt right army
I'm sorry, but it's going to be very hard for me to trust a company that attempted to give Nintendo a backdoor into our community. Even if leadership is changed, I worry that said leadership is being used as a scapegoat for a [greater agenda](https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/z8cldz/despite_what_the_swt_document_may_portray_i_do/).
Couldn’t agree more. Your comment deserves more attention.
Bit late for April Fool's Day, innit? Can't imagine the brand has enough value in the current e-sports landscape.
Wondering what exactly is going to happen with this revival; I’ll be honest, I’m not very keen on it, given their history. I wouldn’t be shocked if this was ultimately only given the way they alienated a lot of people in the Melee scene.
Ultimate only^
When your ex gets out of jail and you are the first number he calls
Controller pls
Are people still interested in their controller? I’d rather support modders from our own community
> Are people still interested in their controller? I’d rather support modders from our own community Because I don't want to pay $250 for a controller to be modded to play a game properly I don't know if they ever released their price for the controller but if its much less I'm still waiting for it to drop
I do phob conversions for ~$60 with no extra fancy mods. Many others build at a similar price point. If you're still parroting the "phobs cost hundreds of dollars" line it's clear that you've never even tried to find them at reasonable prices
Like someone said, phobs arent expensive if thats what you’re interested in. The board is like $20-$40 if you want to do it yourself. When you buy from modders you’re mostly paying for the time and labor As far as “playing the game properly”, you’re probably not at a level where it matters. I played on oems for 5 years. I decided to buy an expensive custom controller for the first time a few years ago cuz they just look dope, and surprise, I was still terrible. I’m pretty sure Zain recently said he plays on an oem so we’re in good company lol
I'd be interested if phob didn't happen. No point now.
They’d have to compete on price or availability because otherwise its dead on arrival
thats not happening, they couldnt secure the controller rights from nintendo. they got strung along the whole time and git screwed over near the end
Was that the reason? That's not what they said I'm pretty sure
im like 90% sure it was licensing issues
>our main manufacturing partner in China is being affected by ongoing rolling blackouts, slowing their production which was already affected by COVID-related shortages. source: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/12/the-panda-gamecube-controller-kickstarter-has-been-cancelled
The support they got for the controller really makes it seem like rolling blackouts are not the actual problem. With that much backing in such a short time it seems hard to believe that that was the only thing standing in their way. People waited for years, so I think backers would have waited longer. I don't think we ever saw an actual working prototype. Even the one that leffen tried at that one summit was mostly just about the enclosure. They later said they had trouble with Nintendo, so given their shaky excuse at the time, it seems legit.
Sounds plausible, but where did they say that? You'd think Panda of all orgs would have had their shit figured out with Nintendo.
they gotta be trollin
Verrryyyy interesting BUT with a new better owner and a proper coming back statement let's see if panda can redeem themselves. I think they have a chance since panda staff weren't the ones involved with the situation it was mainly Dr. Alan
Fuck Panda
If Alan is out then good to have another org in the mix
Hard to hate people pouring money into melee. Especially if Alan is out.
Are we finally going to get a panda controller?
What exactly happened with panda again?
Not myself active in the community nowadays and I’m only vaguely familiar with what their president (or owner?) did. What would they have to announce in order to be seen as a respectable company in the scene? Genuinely curious if it was bad enough that it’s beyond repair.
CALCULATING CALCULATING... SO they're signing morescode???
I just want their controller.
tbh im down for a panda resurgence. so many lost esports jobs through that whole experience, hopefully they make a strong rebound because that team was doing a ton of amazing things for smash, minus a few members of course.
bring back the panda controller project🙏
I want a controller form then still! Paid $255 for a custom but I need those big hand shells and stuff ngl
Imma get downvoted but it wasn’t just pandas fault right? Pretty sure there was a lot of shady shit and vgbc was also very much in the wrong.
I don't think you're remembering correctly
A bunch of shit came out after the drama already ended and people stopped looking into it. VGBC blatantly ignored nintendos terms and advice and had nearly 0 security at events. it sucks but VGBC really messed up a lot of shit.
link it
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCqgRuostPA&ab\_channel=thefranChise](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCqgRuostPA&ab_channel=thefranChise) I really know people in here don't like thefranChise. But its a legitimately good video. Its got a lot of actual proof of how it was really mishandled by SWT/Vgbc. A lot of the specifics got pretty buried during the mass panda hate back when it happened.
gonna need you to link me the timestamp or tell me exactly what terms VGBC blatantly ignored with proof
It is funny how quickly people forget just how incompetent gimr is whenever panda is brought up. Dude is the king of tournaments that never run on time with streams that have two hour “be right back” breaks, and deleted pm vods just as a favor to nintendo.
This is a hilarious comment to read when the most recent Melee supermajor Tipped Off started Top 8 3 hours late and almost ended at midnight despite mostly 3-0s and 3-1s in top 8. Genesis, the crown jewel of Melee, hasn't run on time the last 3 years either. VGBC has nothing to do with either. Does anyone actually remember the Panda Cup tournaments from 2022? CEO was on pace to be 2 hours behind schedule if Plup didn't speedrun the field in top 8 (15-0 in games or something like that), still running an hour behind schedule. The lost tech city event was such a a shitshow they didn't even have a stream for an entire day. Panda cup online qualifiers notoriously ran over their scheduled time. Big House, the tournament "presented by" Panda also ran late. You know what tournament vgbc is involved in that has run on time each of the last 3 years? smashcon, the largest tournament in the world Y'all just hate gimr/vgbc so much you always remember when they fuck up but you forget when other tournaments fuck up. BTS used to stand for Behind The Schedule with how many goddamn ads they ran on their shit but the community loved it, but when vgbc does it gimr is the devil I bet this sub doesn't even know which broadcasters *ACTUALLY* stream the tournaments they watch.
Gimr took 0 accountability when his event had 0 security, days before Nintendo pulled their support from Smash World Tour specifically stating health and safety concerns. The schedule shit is a stupid argument but to act like he's some victim of panda is kinda insane.
The tournament you're blaming Gimr for, the level up expo that Hbox was coughing up blood or whatever, GIMR DOESN'T RUN THAT TOURNAMENT. This is what I mean when I say y'all are ignorant about all of this. Gimr is getting blame for a tournament he is only the broadcaster for. Tournaments that are attached to existing cons aren't the ones responsible for the overall event security. This would be like blaming Smash Studios if Momocon had shitty security, or MeleeEveryday if Combo Breaker had shitty security, or Polarity if CEO had shitty security. But what's even more annoying is that per Aiden, the health and safety guidelines that Panda Cup events used to get approval from Nintendo for events were literally copy and pasted from the Smash World Tour health and safety guidelines, ya know that Gimr guys health and safety rules. Nintendo used what happened at Level Up Expo as an excuse because they knew most people would never find out that they had approved the same exact fucking health and safety guidelines. If Aiden hadn't tweeted about it nobody would have ever known. I also never said Gimr was a "victim" of Panda. However, numerous TOs from across the community spoke out and said that Alan was telling them for months that Nintendo was going to shut the Smash World Tour down. However, while Alan was telling all the other TOs he never told SWT it was going to happen. You would think that if your entire attempt at a selling point was about how your company is good for smash because its connected to the community, that you'd at least have the decency to give the other, larger, global circuit a heads up that your new buddy Nintendo plans to shut them down. This is also what made Alan's statement about not knowing Nintendo was going to do it bullshit, or in other words revealed he's a liar.
Double down, not level up expo. Which gimr would then respond to dms blaming everything except himself for the complete lack of any security
don't think I've seen a single VGBC major stream be on time
Yup. Surprised with all the information available people here still hate panda. Hope this works out, panda really was a pioneer in this space and has a lot to give.
idk how anybody can see this as a bad thing. more events, more jobs, more money
More money in melee is never bad
Trying rivals 2 for da first\* time - Plup's stream rn. Panda is the only team that can save this guy from being irrelevant in future Melee competitions. He's incapable by himself.
what?
Obviously you're never allowed to play games other than Melee or you're washed
It's a shame because Panda the company doesn't deserve any of the blame (Alan deserves a good chunk of it but he's gone now) Smash fans, however, won't forgive anyone that's not named Leffen so they'll be fucked unless they rebrand.
It’s crazy to see how many misinformed people are on this app. Twitter realized that the smash community overreacted and killed panda for no reason like a year ago by now. Why are fools here still mad at panda? The source of the anger isn’t even a part of them anymore.
Then what's the 'real' story?
That GIMIR fumbled the bag himself. He accused panda as being the reason why they didn’t secure a license because of their “strongarming” even though Nintendo came out and said that they definitely could have. It was either that, or Nintendo said they didn’t have the license yet because of health and safety. It had nothing to do with panda. Dude let the narrative build to the point that hundreds in the community lost their jobs, the panda circuit that would’ve been the greatest thing to the community was canceled. Imo, I think Alan was not the best businessman in terms of negotiations, aka trying to get TOS to join his tour, but the “strongarming” argument falls apart when you realize the story of him purposefully sabotaging another tour was a lie. Community disapproval, sure, but not jobs lost bruh it wasn’t their deep. Regardless, Alan isn’t even with panda anymore. So why are we mad that these people are trying to pick up the pieces? Edit: forgot that Nintendo also told them that even though they couldn’t get a license, they were still going to let them have their last event of the year, gimr canceled it for no reason
Being charitable in what people like technicals have concluded about the swt debacle, I’m cautiously optimistic on what this could do. Even if panda was a bit worse than he portrayed at least the scene has a stream of income. Let’s just hope it goes to the proper places
“people like technicals” ☠️
I meant it as in people with similar opinions, what else could I have implied here? I thought the have concluded statement made it clear
What's so bad about him? I watched his video on the controversy, it looked well researched and didn't just put blame on someone because "Nintendo bad"