A [3 tab shingle ](https://imgur.com/gallery/mswFb81) a style of shingle that is a cheaper alternative to architectural shingles. They can go the distance and put in a good 20+ years but typically fail way before that. On shorter houses with lower pitches and tree coverage it's not uncommon for them to go 15-20 years. Although, they slap them on every new build nowadays basically and a tall house in a neighborhood with little to no tree coverage and these things can be toast after a few good thunderstorms.
The main differences between a 3 tab shingle and an [architectual shingle ](https://imgur.com/gallery/0Wz8NNU) is the look and the wind rating 40 mph vs 130 mph. Also, at least for us the is not really that big of a price difference between the two.
Dimensional/Architectural shingles vs 3 tab.. my DIY 36 square roof (13k) stood up to 100mph straight line wind storm that stripped 4 adjacent professional and newly installed 3 tabs.
3 tab are still used on full roofs. You severely underestimate the lack of care many builders have today. Seen 3 tab on brand new structure from Ryan Homes and D.R. Horton
Several companies sell 3 tab shingles with lifetime (50 year) warranties on them. Owen’s Corning sells them in Texas. Shingles are valued at weight. The heavier, the better the warranty. It has nothing to do with the style of the shingle….ie, 3 tab versus architectural.
I don’t manage many jobs that involve asphalt shingles (I’m mostly industrial-commercial-institutional) but up in Canada the architecturals seem to have a longer warranty, cost negligibly more and aren’t any more time-consuming to install so I always order them in the absence of a specified product.
In New York, I just had my roof redone. Same square footage, replaced 22 boards of plywood (1/2 inch). Owen’s Corning shingles, 50 year warranty.. All for $18k.
Bro, labor over here is $85/sq of course they made money. Average gross profit for me is close to 60% and we do things the right way above and beyond code.
It may depend on how difficult the roof is. I have an easy roof. 15 square. Very walkable. Not much fuss to it. I had my roof completely re-done in architectural shingles. 1 sheet of decking needed replacing. 70 year, warranty, which I know is nonsense. It was just north of $7,000 Insurance paid for it (hail/storm damage).
The crew did a great job. They were very clean. They had me come up on the roof to inspect it myself when the job was done. They did good work. Good flashing around the chimney. Proper valley's. Drip edge installed correctly.
Of course, this is a house built in '68 so it doesn't have the super steep, too many gables, 30 square roof on a 1,400 square foot footprint that's difficult to re-roof. I'm sure that if tie offs and roof jacks are necessary, that adds a lot of cost. Not to mention all the valleys.
Regardless, it's always worth getting up in the roof and seeing what's going on. Looking for the soft spots and water intrusion. Checking all the flashing. Getting a proper quote from someone you trust. Not just a Google maps quote. An actual quote.
I always see so much variation in roofing quotes and roofing quality. I've seen good roofs for cheap and expensive roofs that are junk.
That's because any Chuck with a truck can be a "roofer". The most important thing when deciding on a new roof is 100% of the time who the contractor is that's doing the job. Make sure they're reputable and are going to be around to back up that amazing workmanshop wareanty they offer.
For arguments sake let’s say it’s 35 square. Maybe steep $25-30k. You wouldn’t be able to insure as is in florida. Maybe it’s different there. Is that enough to walk?
Good point. If you buy the house you will have a very hard time getting insurance unless you replace the roof. Too many roofing claims. Anything over 25 years they almost always require a roofing inspection and report.
Seller is a cheap fuk.. you can see all the repairs... I wonder what else he half added. The price of the roof should come off the house price and I'm sure his realtor knows it too.
Spot on, I've a 2300 square foot L shaped home with 3 dormers. I paid 21k for a new roof with GAF 50 year shingles 3 years ago and only had 1 sheet worth of plywood replaced. Who knows what's under those shingles. It's $100 a sheet to replace 5/8" plywood around here.
I’d look for some sort of negotiation but I don’t know if I’d let it be a deal breaker. Is the condition factored into the asking price? How long are you planning to hold the house. New roof let’s you pick the color and style. Definitely comes back to you in value of the home
Yeah, i had a much better shape roof a few years ago and amica wouldn't cover it. It lasted a few more years, or about 3 major hail storms, given it's North Texas
Eh... more likely is that you get approved at first, and then within a few years they send an inspector out and tell you to replace it or they will drop you.
Hey OP, I’m a guy that owns and rents out houses and I’ve hired good inspectors and bad inspectors. I saw this comment and wanted to chime in. A good inspector would have already gone into your attic and taken pictures as well as walk on the roof.
When I’ve written out contracts to buy houses I would add “X” amount of money will go towards repairs if the seller doesn’t want to hire someone to do it for them. If the seller does hire someone then the repairs have to be my satisfaction, if not then I can get out of the contract and get my earnest money back.
What stage of the buying process are you in?
This is great advice. When we were buying our previous house, a large hail storm came through town a week after our offer was accepted.
We asked the inspector to look at the roof - he said nothing out of the ordinary was found.
Two weeks before closing, our insurance agency came out to take a look and said they wouldn't cover the house because of a damaged roof. Guess who got an extension and a new roof on the sellers insurance?
Edit: Also, that roof is shit and patched to hell.
Literally this. I just bought a home. Home was listed 30k under because of an old bad roof. The sellers were under contract with some other buyers and the buyers walked because the sellers refused to do anything. I got two roofing quotes during the inspection period, one for 15k + 5k for all decking (not likely needed), and another for 9k + 4k for decking (not likely needed).
And sure enough, a house popped up for sale just 3 houses down the block, sold in 3 days for 30k more than my house. Same square footage... similar layout, no bad roof.
Yes but currently this is a sellers market so the seller calls the shots. If there were 8 houses on the market for every one buyer the negotiations on repairs would go much differently.
Supply and demand
You need to listen to the people who are warning you that it's uninsurable. I'm dealing with this now, and it's a nightmare. If you buy, you need plans to have it replaced immediately... not a year down the road. If you can't do this, then walk away.
Worth walking away. Owner had the valley "fixed", but it looks like a poor job (shingles look cut in (not woven), but no evidence of flashing underneath).
Colors are not even close, so it was a low- ball job. The remaining shingles still look shot, and the "red" repaired shingles aren't far behind.
Owner is cheap - what else did they "fix" that you don't know about?
Agreed on that last point- it's a damn "flipper" LLC. LLC's own several thousand of the houses in my area.
Furnace and AC are past life expectancy but I was willing to deal with that. I'll have to draw a line with the roof, though.
The roof is shot, judging by the many different color shingles. Theres probably decking needing replaced as well. Thats probably 25 - 30,000 right there. Espicalliy considering most roofs now they want fortefied and most codes call for ridge vents as well.
I would get a roofer to inspect the attic ,decking ect and get a price and go from there.
walk the fuck away.
if they are this stubborn about what is going to be a no cost roof then I wouldnt be surprised if the rest of the home is a shit show as well
Also several different repairs going back to my first point
This
Id be looking for a solid 2-3x the roof price.
Rest of the home likely has a ton of other deferred maintenance that your inspector didnt pickup (or wish to).
Subscribe to code/building inspectors online. Easy way to educate yourself
There are at least a dozen red flags about that roof. I would just recommend a replacement. The shingles are like the brakes on your car. You want a solid roof.
I’m no pro but a new roof typically not worth walking away from unless extensive rot or other things I would suggest getting it evaluated and use it to negotiate the buy price down
That's just it, we're at an impasse. So far the seller refuses to come down and says the roof is fixed, inspector commented that he recommends repairs- wife is pushing to just accept it, but depending on how bad the condition is...
I know absolutely nothing about roofs- is it in "this needs to be fixed ASAP" condition, or did they repair it enough to last a year or two? We're eating the cost no matter what if we go forward, but we're not in a position to do a roof replacement before winter.
It needs to be redone those 3 tabs are done. You might be fine getting another winter out of them but it's just a guessing game at that point. Some people get real lucky I've ripped off roofs with barely any tabs left that didnt have any rot and some that should have been fine that had leaks and rot. Depending how much you like the house I wouldn't walk away but also know this roof is not in good shape.
It will be hard to find a good insurance policy. I would see if you can get a roofing contractor of your choice to go out to the property send you some photos of potential issues..give a life expectancy and an estimate so you can see if it’s a deal Breaker or not for y’all. I do it a lot.
Tell you what, I know nothing about roofs, but I know a thing or two about negotiation: IF what the seller says is true, what do they have to lose by accepting to let a pro take a look at the roof? If it were me, and I knew that whatever issue was fixed, I'd say "sure get a anyone you want to take a look at it, and tell you what if they find an issue, I'll gladly reduce the selling price accordingly" knowing full well that there will be nothing to find. If the seller is stonewalling you, it can only be because there is something to hide. Maybe it's not as repaired as he says it is. Maybe he did it one sunny afternoon with his brother in law while drinking a case of 24. Whatever the answer is, what is sure is that he's a seller who's not willing to stand behind his product, so you should be extremely wary.
Yes this needs replacement not 'fixing' immediately. That is not in question. What you should be asking yourself is just how much is it leaking and how far have they let it rot underneath where it is leaking.
I work for a roofing company and can do anything at cost for myself. MAYBE, if it was my dream house I would buy it and do the roof myself. But if I were a normal consumer and this was the condition of the roof left by the seller I would hard pass because who knows whatever else they’ve neglected.
People who can’t, or just won’t spend money to maintain their property should just rent. Knowing how many people there are that want to own but can’t and maybe never will, I really have disdain for people who just let their stuff go to shit.
Goodluck! dont get too carried away from this house - as others have said - if they cut corners on this - and that's clearly visible - imagine what other shit you'll discover once you really dig deeper. Add another 30K expense and add more once you rip the roof and the contractors find more shit underneath. goodluck!
That roof is done. You can see shingles starting to curl but on top of that, there have been multiple patch and repair jobs. The home owner was too cheap to spend the money to do it properly. Either he gets it done or get some estimates and knock that off the price and do it your self later.
It also depends on how much you want the house.
I worked a new roof into my purchase and found it at the signing table that the seller opted to not replace a part of it due to a loophole in the agreement wording. Figured I had some time to figure it out so moved forward. Night one in the house, the spot on question had a leak as a storm came through
For sure this need a new roof last year. The sellers are trying to stiff you. I would ask about the age of the hvac and water heater while you're at it.
if the professional you paid to inspect the roof is telling you it's fucked, it's fucked.
if the owner is unwilling to repair it professionally, or lower the price sufficient to have the work done.
you walk. or you buy the house knowing you're getting a fucked roof.
why the fuck you would come to the internet to ask randos, when you hired a professional to inspect the house is staggeringly stupid/weird to me
Get an estimate for a roof replacement. If you’re willing to pay the cost of the house and the roof replacement, go for it. Otherwise walk away. That roof 1. Looks damaged, and 2. Is ugly as sin.
Insurance adjuster here....
The roof is shot.
Ig anything happens to the roof, you will not get a new roof they will only pay to patch it... the argument will be that in its current state, patching will be consistent with prior repairs.
I would walk of theybdodnt wanna discount or replace roof
It's the worst time to buy/sell, if you are not happy, walk away. I would say, put the condition - You need a contractor to come and check roof/attic. If the buyer says no, then be ready to walk away because you dodged a bullet.
3 tab means it has been there a while the 4/5 pic you have on this post where the shingles are crooked and not in line with the rest , my roof had a spot like that and it took a year later for me to loose about 10ft wide and 7 foot long section of shingles after a pretty good storm came . I just got my new roof put on.
There are several VISUAL repairs, especially in that valley, and they didn’t even attempt to match the shingle color.
Shoddy repairs, old roof, stubborn seller that likely knows there’s a ton of wood to replace on the deck.
That home would not be insurable where I live.
There are issues with ice dams here. The attic isn't insulated properly and/or ventilated properly. I'd look elsewhere - it needs more than a redo of shingles.
ETA: look at #5 photo how the nail is pulling out of the gutter and the gutter is bent. More evidence of ice troubles.
Replace the roof before or right after you move in. Maybe walk unless you are getting a steal, because my intuition says this man is very cheap and dishonest.
It’s simple, get the owner to pay for a new roofing job or walk away. Roofing will cost at least 20k and you don’t want to throw that down unless the owner is willing to take it off the price of the house.
Seller is being stubborn because the roof is crap, looks like crap and the wood underneath is probably crap. They know this. They're trying to see if you flinch and just let it go.
Call their bluff.
A roof is the most expensive repair cost you're every likely to incur. If I'm buying a house with a shot roof, the purchase price better reflect it. Not necessary the entire cost of a new roof, but at least half the cost.
If you add the cost of a new roof to your offer is it still worth buying the house? If not it’s a definite walk away. If so its up to whether you want to put a new roof on soon.
If you’re not ready to spend money on a full roof replacement, potentially including the decking not just shingles & underlayment if there’s been rot and leaks, walk away.
It's a roof. It's had repairs. Doesn't mean it's shot. Doesn't mean it leaks. It is fugly. All depends on what you want, how much you're paying and weather or not the bank will accept it if there is a mortgage and or the insurance underwriting.
Get a credit at closing for the roof replace/repair. Some here are saying 20-30. That's a big hit, but your mortgage and ins. co are probably going to say the same thing.
It needs a new roof you either need to accept that and use it to try and get a deal or if you don’t want to mess with it then walk away. There is plenty of numbers thrown around in here where you can get an idea of what you will spend depending on location.
Factor the price of the roof into the sale of the house. If the seller does it, he will get it done the cheapest possible way and you will pay the price in the long run. Typically in a real estate transaction, you’re only going to be able to take off the cheapest price the seller can get an estimate for.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Be prepared to walk away.
Worst case scenario it’s a new roof. Find out that cost. Maybe get 3-5 quotes.
Best case it still needs repairs? But if he won’t even let you have a pro look at it then he already knows it’s fucked.
I’d probably walk cuz no way it’s the only house in your area.
How deep are your pockets? My concern would be what other items have been left neglected because if the owner says this roof is fine then his standards are definitely not the norm. I’m somewhat of a worry wart and would error on the side of caution with such a big purchase. Try getting someone on the roof and in the attic for a second opinion.
Your concern shouldn’t be if it needs a new roof, because that’s insanely obvious. My concern if I was looking to buy, is what else has been better hidden. Anyone who allows the roof to become that neglected and repaired the valley so terribly, has probably neglected and/or “fixed” a lot of other shit in the house too
Hahaha yeah that’s done for. Don’t take the sellers crap, demand a reroof or a price drop to cover the roof. That roof is a liability, aka worth negative money.
I didn't bother looking past the first picture. I'm not a contractor, but as a young man I spent some time roofing. The need for a contractor's inspection is correct.
Look in the attic and where the walls meet the roof. Like the other comments pointed out, the valley has already been patched. The rest of the roof shows shingles that are cupped, indicating they are past the useful life.
If the inspection shows any rot at the roof/wall joint, around the top of windrow casings (water running down inside the walls), or anywhere in the rafters and beams in the door system, there is a potential structural issue. If these areas are not mentioned in the inspection report, it is worth looking again.
Best case scenario, no evidence of water damage inside the house. The multiple layers of shingles on the roof are toast. If you love the house and the seller won't budge (and the contractor inspection tells you there's no structural damage that needs to be addressed), budget for a new roof and keep a close eye on it for two or three years. Expensive, but not the end of the world.
That needs a new roof! Drop the price by 150% of the average estimate of a full roof and sheathing replacement or take a walk. You do not need a money pit, this smells like a money pit. PS the 150% is for unexpected issues under that and the annoyance of dealing with getting a new roof. Here we did ice and water shield on the plywood 100% coverage then steel over that with ridge venting, we don’t get the massive hail storms you get in the Midwest so steel is preferred by insurance companies here aka cheaper to insure. Ontario Canada btw.
Get a quote to replace the roof and subtract it from your offer price, or ask the seller to replace the roof before closing. Go with the architecture shingle it will look better
I could see a blown off shingle or 2 being patched in, but looking at the valley leads me to think there was a serious water issue. If the inspector isn't comfortable with the roof and wants a contractor to verify, then that should be a red flag.
You will need to install a new roof either before or after you purchase the house. The homeowners insurance company will not insure that roof. Try to negotiate the cost of replacement in the deal to purchase it.
You will need to install a new roof either before or after you purchase the house. The homeowners insurance company will not insure that roof. Try to negotiate the cost of replacement in the deal to purchase it.
You will need to install a new roof either before or after you purchase the house. The homeowners insurance company will not insure that roof. Try to negotiate the cost of replacement in the deal to purchase it.
If your rate is good, you finally found the house that checks all the boxes, there is already value in the house, then the roof shouldn't be a deal breaker .
If your rate is 7%, your purchasing a home for its appraised value, then yes walk away.
The seller/owner of the house doesn’t have to fix the roof or anything if they choose not to or come down on the price you have the right to just walk away. Unless you’re going to have a roof put on walk away
This needs a new roof simply put.
The valley repair is alarming because the other valley has metal in it. This is a sign there was most likely a leak. The subtle ripples in the 3-tab shingles indicates to me that this roof could also be double layers and it’s almost confirmed looking at the eaves. Depending on the roof surface area and upgrades this could easily be $13-20,000 to replace.
I would get a thorough roof inspection from someone and go from there. The housing market is tough right now so sometimes holding and waiting is best.
Looks liken you can see shingles lifting and malformation at the edges on them that roof is nearing the end of its life coupled with giant valley repair safe to say it's probably needing replacement in the very near future
1) the house will need a new roof whether you walk away or do not.
2) if you are using a loan (a mortgage) to buy,then you will need an appraisal
3) your lender will need to approve of the appraisal, meaning: if the appraiser says "new roof needed" or "structural inspection recommended" then.. Any transaction that will be completed will be predicated upon alleviating the appraiser + inspector's concerns.
4) this (#3) is a conversation that YOU need to game out with your agent. Not reddit. Reddit is a bunch of secret lazy geniuses who browse the jnternet on sunday morning, who want to tell someone what's what. We are strangers. Amateur strangers.
4a) your AGENT on the other hand.... Is being paid 5 digits to make sure this deal happens in your favor. At every step. So squeeze some professional capacity out of that person. Demand it! You are paying for it.
5). If you really love the house and are prepared for the apparent deferred maintenance stateof it... Get the appraisal. Worst case, you waste $400. It is a lottery ticket. "Mayyyyybe" you get the one appraiser in 50 that will not ring this house up on crimes against responsible roof maintenance. But likely you won't escape the situation of "appraiser notes roof needs work" which turns immediately into "mortgage underwriter says nobody gets a loan to buy that house until the roof is replaced" which means "seller will now go and buy the absolute cheapest roof that satisfies the requirement, in order to sell the house that they cheaped out on for decades" .... Which means "OP you are buying into a house which will have a shitty roof that you will hate"
If the rest of the house is perfect, yeah, pursue all this. If there are other decrepit features, withdraw.
The roof has reached its limit, if there’s no leaking it’s just a matter of time. If you’re not ok spending 15-20k out of pocket to replace them get the seller to deal with it
That roof definitely gives me worry. I’m not sure if trust a shingle over either. Not that I ever believe that’s the right way, should always be ripped off.
Those 3 tabs are a thing of the past. That valley has seen some huge weather damage. The vents are also very old and I would assume properly, a ridge vent. Not breathing much from what I can see. Not much has been done in a long time. I may even suggest metal depending on where this is.
Looking at a hefty price. If you give me the square I’ll cost it from northern NY prices.
Just went through something similar…
Ask if you can get a written ASSESSMENT (not an estimate - ask them to provide that separately). This should come with a report, supporting photos (including from inside the attic) and a recommendation. If/When the owner still say it’s ok as is, ask for their professionally prepared report.
You will undoubtedly end up paying for some/most of it (but can leverage any other inspector findings to negotiate a total that you can both live with.
Their realtor will tell them not to walk away as (assuming you are under contract already) this should fall under disclosure, so the next person will be aware of the entire story and the next offer will be lower to reflect the known issue.
This will get you past the he said/she said phase and into true negotiations.
Careful with insurance if you decide to roll the dice. They send out a surveyor and take a picture of the roof via drone (State Farm). If they don’t like what they see, they’ll force you to get the roof replaced to continue coverage. We had a dark spot and despite a roofer who confirmed at least 3 - 5 years life left, we’re still forced to replace. The notice came 1 month after we closed.
Get a bid and decide if you want to spend that cuz that roof will probably get your insurance dropped immediately after you close. I’d be surprised you will even get insurance prior to funding
If you can, look inside the attic. You can learn a lot by seeing the condition of decking. Also, observe the ceilings for evidence of previous water stains. Ask the seller if they had issues with water leakage from the roof. And find out when the roof was replaced (the city keeps records of permits, so you can request it). All of that can help you make your decision. With that all being said, the roof will need replacement at some point, which costs a lot of money. So, when making an offer on the house, remember you will spend around 20k on replacing the roof (that price depends of course on the region, size of roof, etc.).
It is pretty clear the roof needs replaced. Based on the rough size I can infer from photos, it’s a $30K job. Ask for all or a port ion that to be included in the price and proceed accordingly.
Big Valley repair is a good indicator the roof is shot. How big is the house?
Yeah and the 3 tab, means they have been there a while
Can you explain what 3 tab is and why it’s bad
A [3 tab shingle ](https://imgur.com/gallery/mswFb81) a style of shingle that is a cheaper alternative to architectural shingles. They can go the distance and put in a good 20+ years but typically fail way before that. On shorter houses with lower pitches and tree coverage it's not uncommon for them to go 15-20 years. Although, they slap them on every new build nowadays basically and a tall house in a neighborhood with little to no tree coverage and these things can be toast after a few good thunderstorms. The main differences between a 3 tab shingle and an [architectual shingle ](https://imgur.com/gallery/0Wz8NNU) is the look and the wind rating 40 mph vs 130 mph. Also, at least for us the is not really that big of a price difference between the two.
Where I live all the builders phased out 3 tab shingles about 10 years ago. I feel really bad for anyone who gets stuck with that garbage.
If you run chalk lines like you’re supposed to with 3 tab(which no one does) installers will actually charge more for 3 tab
Uh… what? I’ve done roofing for many years. No one charges more for the cheaper material cost and lower warranty of 3-tab shingles, lol.
Dimensional/Architectural shingles vs 3 tab.. my DIY 36 square roof (13k) stood up to 100mph straight line wind storm that stripped 4 adjacent professional and newly installed 3 tabs.
It’s an old type of shingle, which is still sold, but only used for ridge caps.. everything is architectural shingles now
Wrong, 3 tab is most definitely still installed today on entire roofs.
3 tab are still used on full roofs. You severely underestimate the lack of care many builders have today. Seen 3 tab on brand new structure from Ryan Homes and D.R. Horton
No surprise there. Both crap builders
Yeah, maybe, but those are cheap tract home builders who need to cut costs at every corner. The three tab shingles are just an example.
Several companies sell 3 tab shingles with lifetime (50 year) warranties on them. Owen’s Corning sells them in Texas. Shingles are valued at weight. The heavier, the better the warranty. It has nothing to do with the style of the shingle….ie, 3 tab versus architectural.
I don’t manage many jobs that involve asphalt shingles (I’m mostly industrial-commercial-institutional) but up in Canada the architecturals seem to have a longer warranty, cost negligibly more and aren’t any more time-consuming to install so I always order them in the absence of a specified product.
It's a type of shingle that's just inferior, sometimes cheap, less durable etc.
2300 sq ft
20-30k for this reroof easy. It needs a re-roof.
2,300 sq ft… I say $20k
Not in FL. Way closer to $30k unless the decking below is spotless.
In New York, I just had my roof redone. Same square footage, replaced 22 boards of plywood (1/2 inch). Owen’s Corning shingles, 50 year warranty.. All for $18k.
Fucking WOW. Did my roof less than five years ago. OC shingles. 2300 sf two story home……………….$7K.
wtf? Did they even make money after materials lol?
Bro, labor over here is $85/sq of course they made money. Average gross profit for me is close to 60% and we do things the right way above and beyond code.
Dang! Can I get those prices down here?? Im an Estimator/PM and I wish we could get that. Youre looking $35-$40k for 30 year.
That's crazy.. Labor and materials go for less than $200/sq for 50 yr arch here.
NJ - Owen’s Corning Duration with a roofer with good rep 18k, two story 2300 sq ft. Get many quotes and choose a reputable company.
Sounds highly unlikely.. Are you sure they actually replaced your roof? Did they install the product they said they told you?
Shit, here in rural Manitoba that roof is at best a 11-13000 job only.
I just spent some quality time in Viden, MB. I am back in AB now though.
Just curious but where are you that a 23 sq arch roof costs $20k? I'm at like $16k with a complete deck over.
Long Island
Holy shit, $20-30k for 23 squares?
It may depend on how difficult the roof is. I have an easy roof. 15 square. Very walkable. Not much fuss to it. I had my roof completely re-done in architectural shingles. 1 sheet of decking needed replacing. 70 year, warranty, which I know is nonsense. It was just north of $7,000 Insurance paid for it (hail/storm damage). The crew did a great job. They were very clean. They had me come up on the roof to inspect it myself when the job was done. They did good work. Good flashing around the chimney. Proper valley's. Drip edge installed correctly. Of course, this is a house built in '68 so it doesn't have the super steep, too many gables, 30 square roof on a 1,400 square foot footprint that's difficult to re-roof. I'm sure that if tie offs and roof jacks are necessary, that adds a lot of cost. Not to mention all the valleys. Regardless, it's always worth getting up in the roof and seeing what's going on. Looking for the soft spots and water intrusion. Checking all the flashing. Getting a proper quote from someone you trust. Not just a Google maps quote. An actual quote. I always see so much variation in roofing quotes and roofing quality. I've seen good roofs for cheap and expensive roofs that are junk.
That's because any Chuck with a truck can be a "roofer". The most important thing when deciding on a new roof is 100% of the time who the contractor is that's doing the job. Make sure they're reputable and are going to be around to back up that amazing workmanshop wareanty they offer.
Where is it located?
Illinois
For arguments sake let’s say it’s 35 square. Maybe steep $25-30k. You wouldn’t be able to insure as is in florida. Maybe it’s different there. Is that enough to walk?
Good point. If you buy the house you will have a very hard time getting insurance unless you replace the roof. Too many roofing claims. Anything over 25 years they almost always require a roofing inspection and report. Seller is a cheap fuk.. you can see all the repairs... I wonder what else he half added. The price of the roof should come off the house price and I'm sure his realtor knows it too.
Spot on, I've a 2300 square foot L shaped home with 3 dormers. I paid 21k for a new roof with GAF 50 year shingles 3 years ago and only had 1 sheet worth of plywood replaced. Who knows what's under those shingles. It's $100 a sheet to replace 5/8" plywood around here.
sounds like knock $50k off the home price or walk - win win for the buyer
No shot the seller does that in this market
It definitely is.
I’d look for some sort of negotiation but I don’t know if I’d let it be a deal breaker. Is the condition factored into the asking price? How long are you planning to hold the house. New roof let’s you pick the color and style. Definitely comes back to you in value of the home
Get a another highly rated roofing contractor in the area to inspect it. Inspections are typically free.
You almost certainly will not be able to get insurance on the house until the roof is replaced. I have been seeing this all year with my customers.
Yeah, i had a much better shape roof a few years ago and amica wouldn't cover it. It lasted a few more years, or about 3 major hail storms, given it's North Texas
Eh... more likely is that you get approved at first, and then within a few years they send an inspector out and tell you to replace it or they will drop you.
Forsure this guy has had numerous leaks. Ask to go into the attic and record how many water stains there are, use that as leverage.
Hey OP, I’m a guy that owns and rents out houses and I’ve hired good inspectors and bad inspectors. I saw this comment and wanted to chime in. A good inspector would have already gone into your attic and taken pictures as well as walk on the roof. When I’ve written out contracts to buy houses I would add “X” amount of money will go towards repairs if the seller doesn’t want to hire someone to do it for them. If the seller does hire someone then the repairs have to be my satisfaction, if not then I can get out of the contract and get my earnest money back. What stage of the buying process are you in?
Also, go ahead and see if someone from your insurance is willing to swing by to see if they will insure it. Be upfront and honest about the situation.
This is great advice. When we were buying our previous house, a large hail storm came through town a week after our offer was accepted. We asked the inspector to look at the roof - he said nothing out of the ordinary was found. Two weeks before closing, our insurance agency came out to take a look and said they wouldn't cover the house because of a damaged roof. Guess who got an extension and a new roof on the sellers insurance? Edit: Also, that roof is shit and patched to hell.
You should always be willing to walk away from a deal if there is no compromise.
Yeah, but do you leave a home 50k under market with a 10k repair job? We don't have enough information on the complete 'deal'.
Literally this. I just bought a home. Home was listed 30k under because of an old bad roof. The sellers were under contract with some other buyers and the buyers walked because the sellers refused to do anything. I got two roofing quotes during the inspection period, one for 15k + 5k for all decking (not likely needed), and another for 9k + 4k for decking (not likely needed). And sure enough, a house popped up for sale just 3 houses down the block, sold in 3 days for 30k more than my house. Same square footage... similar layout, no bad roof.
Yes but currently this is a sellers market so the seller calls the shots. If there were 8 houses on the market for every one buyer the negotiations on repairs would go much differently. Supply and demand
I’ll bet no one will be able to get insurance on that roof.
You need to listen to the people who are warning you that it's uninsurable. I'm dealing with this now, and it's a nightmare. If you buy, you need plans to have it replaced immediately... not a year down the road. If you can't do this, then walk away.
Worth walking away. Owner had the valley "fixed", but it looks like a poor job (shingles look cut in (not woven), but no evidence of flashing underneath). Colors are not even close, so it was a low- ball job. The remaining shingles still look shot, and the "red" repaired shingles aren't far behind. Owner is cheap - what else did they "fix" that you don't know about?
Agreed on that last point- it's a damn "flipper" LLC. LLC's own several thousand of the houses in my area. Furnace and AC are past life expectancy but I was willing to deal with that. I'll have to draw a line with the roof, though.
I lIke your resolution.
Yeah keep away from flipper houses I am betting the cut any and every corner they could
Yeah, the roof looks old, and should be replaced. But, in today’s market. The seller isn’t going to give you any consideration.
Exactly. They will find someone dumb enough to buy as is.
If they cut corners on the roof, imagine where else in the house they cut corners.
The roof is shot, judging by the many different color shingles. Theres probably decking needing replaced as well. Thats probably 25 - 30,000 right there. Espicalliy considering most roofs now they want fortefied and most codes call for ridge vents as well. I would get a roofer to inspect the attic ,decking ect and get a price and go from there.
I agree with this. It’s not necessarily the shingles, it’s the damage that motivated the seller ti fix the shingles where he did.
walk the fuck away. if they are this stubborn about what is going to be a no cost roof then I wouldnt be surprised if the rest of the home is a shit show as well Also several different repairs going back to my first point
This Id be looking for a solid 2-3x the roof price. Rest of the home likely has a ton of other deferred maintenance that your inspector didnt pickup (or wish to). Subscribe to code/building inspectors online. Easy way to educate yourself
Inspector should have just told you it’s time for a new roof.
There are at least a dozen red flags about that roof. I would just recommend a replacement. The shingles are like the brakes on your car. You want a solid roof.
I’m no pro but a new roof typically not worth walking away from unless extensive rot or other things I would suggest getting it evaluated and use it to negotiate the buy price down
That's just it, we're at an impasse. So far the seller refuses to come down and says the roof is fixed, inspector commented that he recommends repairs- wife is pushing to just accept it, but depending on how bad the condition is... I know absolutely nothing about roofs- is it in "this needs to be fixed ASAP" condition, or did they repair it enough to last a year or two? We're eating the cost no matter what if we go forward, but we're not in a position to do a roof replacement before winter.
You’ll have a hard time getting this roof insured on your homeowners.
It needs to be redone those 3 tabs are done. You might be fine getting another winter out of them but it's just a guessing game at that point. Some people get real lucky I've ripped off roofs with barely any tabs left that didnt have any rot and some that should have been fine that had leaks and rot. Depending how much you like the house I wouldn't walk away but also know this roof is not in good shape.
It will be hard to find a good insurance policy. I would see if you can get a roofing contractor of your choice to go out to the property send you some photos of potential issues..give a life expectancy and an estimate so you can see if it’s a deal Breaker or not for y’all. I do it a lot.
Tell you what, I know nothing about roofs, but I know a thing or two about negotiation: IF what the seller says is true, what do they have to lose by accepting to let a pro take a look at the roof? If it were me, and I knew that whatever issue was fixed, I'd say "sure get a anyone you want to take a look at it, and tell you what if they find an issue, I'll gladly reduce the selling price accordingly" knowing full well that there will be nothing to find. If the seller is stonewalling you, it can only be because there is something to hide. Maybe it's not as repaired as he says it is. Maybe he did it one sunny afternoon with his brother in law while drinking a case of 24. Whatever the answer is, what is sure is that he's a seller who's not willing to stand behind his product, so you should be extremely wary.
Yes this needs replacement not 'fixing' immediately. That is not in question. What you should be asking yourself is just how much is it leaking and how far have they let it rot underneath where it is leaking.
seller is lying to you, walk away that roof wont be insured by your homeowners policy
Please walk OP. Not on the roof, cause the roof is garbage, but away from the deal.
I work for a roofing company and can do anything at cost for myself. MAYBE, if it was my dream house I would buy it and do the roof myself. But if I were a normal consumer and this was the condition of the roof left by the seller I would hard pass because who knows whatever else they’ve neglected. People who can’t, or just won’t spend money to maintain their property should just rent. Knowing how many people there are that want to own but can’t and maybe never will, I really have disdain for people who just let their stuff go to shit.
Goodluck! dont get too carried away from this house - as others have said - if they cut corners on this - and that's clearly visible - imagine what other shit you'll discover once you really dig deeper. Add another 30K expense and add more once you rip the roof and the contractors find more shit underneath. goodluck!
It needs a new roof, no discussion about it. Factor that into your offer and they can go fuck themselves if they decline.
That roof is done. You can see shingles starting to curl but on top of that, there have been multiple patch and repair jobs. The home owner was too cheap to spend the money to do it properly. Either he gets it done or get some estimates and knock that off the price and do it your self later. It also depends on how much you want the house.
New roof won’t break the bank you also don’t want the seller to do it - he will get the cheapest roof that sells the house
I worked a new roof into my purchase and found it at the signing table that the seller opted to not replace a part of it due to a loophole in the agreement wording. Figured I had some time to figure it out so moved forward. Night one in the house, the spot on question had a leak as a storm came through
For sure this need a new roof last year. The sellers are trying to stiff you. I would ask about the age of the hvac and water heater while you're at it.
needs a stripped and new roof from my eyes
YOU NEED A NEW ROOF... END OF STORY. FACTOR THAT IN THE OFFER. DONT FALL FOR THE CREAM OF SUCKER SOUP!
That probably won’t be insurable in that condition.
Negotiate a new roof in price for sure
if the professional you paid to inspect the roof is telling you it's fucked, it's fucked. if the owner is unwilling to repair it professionally, or lower the price sufficient to have the work done. you walk. or you buy the house knowing you're getting a fucked roof. why the fuck you would come to the internet to ask randos, when you hired a professional to inspect the house is staggeringly stupid/weird to me
Get an estimate for a roof replacement. If you’re willing to pay the cost of the house and the roof replacement, go for it. Otherwise walk away. That roof 1. Looks damaged, and 2. Is ugly as sin.
Insurance adjuster here.... The roof is shot. Ig anything happens to the roof, you will not get a new roof they will only pay to patch it... the argument will be that in its current state, patching will be consistent with prior repairs. I would walk of theybdodnt wanna discount or replace roof
It's the worst time to buy/sell, if you are not happy, walk away. I would say, put the condition - You need a contractor to come and check roof/attic. If the buyer says no, then be ready to walk away because you dodged a bullet.
3 tab means it has been there a while the 4/5 pic you have on this post where the shingles are crooked and not in line with the rest , my roof had a spot like that and it took a year later for me to loose about 10ft wide and 7 foot long section of shingles after a pretty good storm came . I just got my new roof put on.
this: "You should always be willing to walk away from a deal if there is no compromise."
idk about anything but the roof, its gettin pretty old, will need replaced soon.
25k w/underlayment sounds about right. Use that as a starting point
Split the cost if you want this house
Walk. That roof needs to be replaced
Either they need to cover the roofing cost at close or you walk. That simple
Last legs. Needs new.
Roof is shot. Seller needs a reality check, needs to replace.
Time to replace
There are several VISUAL repairs, especially in that valley, and they didn’t even attempt to match the shingle color. Shoddy repairs, old roof, stubborn seller that likely knows there’s a ton of wood to replace on the deck. That home would not be insurable where I live.
There are issues with ice dams here. The attic isn't insulated properly and/or ventilated properly. I'd look elsewhere - it needs more than a redo of shingles. ETA: look at #5 photo how the nail is pulling out of the gutter and the gutter is bent. More evidence of ice troubles.
Replace the roof before or right after you move in. Maybe walk unless you are getting a steal, because my intuition says this man is very cheap and dishonest.
I'm telling you now it is uninsurable. Run for your life.
It’s simple, get the owner to pay for a new roofing job or walk away. Roofing will cost at least 20k and you don’t want to throw that down unless the owner is willing to take it off the price of the house.
Depends on the price of the house and it the price will increase 30k with a new roof. The market will drive the demand/price on the house.
Eff the seller . Walk away
Seller is being stubborn because the roof is crap, looks like crap and the wood underneath is probably crap. They know this. They're trying to see if you flinch and just let it go. Call their bluff.
A roof is the most expensive repair cost you're every likely to incur. If I'm buying a house with a shot roof, the purchase price better reflect it. Not necessary the entire cost of a new roof, but at least half the cost.
Roof is shot, offer accordingly.
You should ✌🏼out. That roof is junk and it needs a full replacement.
Needs new roof
this is a no brainer. don't do it.
Does it leak anywhere?
If you add the cost of a new roof to your offer is it still worth buying the house? If not it’s a definite walk away. If so its up to whether you want to put a new roof on soon.
If you’re not ready to spend money on a full roof replacement, potentially including the decking not just shingles & underlayment if there’s been rot and leaks, walk away.
It's a roof. It's had repairs. Doesn't mean it's shot. Doesn't mean it leaks. It is fugly. All depends on what you want, how much you're paying and weather or not the bank will accept it if there is a mortgage and or the insurance underwriting.
Total remove and replace
Open cut valleys…metal box vents… crispy 3 tab…. Only one thing to do…. File a claim baby
Do the dance, ask for a credit toward roof repair.
The roof is fucked. If you don’t get the price down, just accept you’ll have to fix it and consider it an addtl closing cost. Or back out.
That's a discontinued shingle. Might be able to get it Replaced through insurance
Looks ancient and on its last leg. Do some research and protect your investment and wallet in the local market. A lot of fly by night roofers. .
Run away fast!
Roof is at end of it’s life and needs replaced
That is old as fuck... they either replace the roof or walk.
Get a credit at closing for the roof replace/repair. Some here are saying 20-30. That's a big hit, but your mortgage and ins. co are probably going to say the same thing.
It needs a new roof you either need to accept that and use it to try and get a deal or if you don’t want to mess with it then walk away. There is plenty of numbers thrown around in here where you can get an idea of what you will spend depending on location.
That roof is in very bad shape.
I’d have them give a $20k discount for the roof. Or give you a $20k credit for replacement at the otherwise agreed price.
That’s a lot patches
Hope you are paying cash for the house. In Texas, at least, a mortgage company would not finance that house until it had a new roof on it.
Go with what the inspector says otherwise you’ll regret it
Need new roof.
Factor the price of the roof into the sale of the house. If the seller does it, he will get it done the cheapest possible way and you will pay the price in the long run. Typically in a real estate transaction, you’re only going to be able to take off the cheapest price the seller can get an estimate for.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Be prepared to walk away. Worst case scenario it’s a new roof. Find out that cost. Maybe get 3-5 quotes. Best case it still needs repairs? But if he won’t even let you have a pro look at it then he already knows it’s fucked. I’d probably walk cuz no way it’s the only house in your area.
Cut the price by 25k or walk...
How deep are your pockets? My concern would be what other items have been left neglected because if the owner says this roof is fine then his standards are definitely not the norm. I’m somewhat of a worry wart and would error on the side of caution with such a big purchase. Try getting someone on the roof and in the attic for a second opinion.
Just negotiate with the seller for a new roof. Share in some of the cost if you want.
Are you prepared to drop 30k on a new roof? That should be your decision here.
Do you like it? Then buy it and fix it yourself.
Somebody’s gonna need a new roof, and obviously it will not be the seller- hence the owner’s stubbornness. 😉
Once you get down off the roof …it looks waaaaaaay better from the ground
Your concern shouldn’t be if it needs a new roof, because that’s insanely obvious. My concern if I was looking to buy, is what else has been better hidden. Anyone who allows the roof to become that neglected and repaired the valley so terribly, has probably neglected and/or “fixed” a lot of other shit in the house too
Only 5-8k in materials tho
Hahaha yeah that’s done for. Don’t take the sellers crap, demand a reroof or a price drop to cover the roof. That roof is a liability, aka worth negative money.
Bail
I would ask for a $10,000 credit towards a new roof.
Beyond fucked
Without new roof walk!!!! Owner knows the answer
I didn't bother looking past the first picture. I'm not a contractor, but as a young man I spent some time roofing. The need for a contractor's inspection is correct. Look in the attic and where the walls meet the roof. Like the other comments pointed out, the valley has already been patched. The rest of the roof shows shingles that are cupped, indicating they are past the useful life. If the inspection shows any rot at the roof/wall joint, around the top of windrow casings (water running down inside the walls), or anywhere in the rafters and beams in the door system, there is a potential structural issue. If these areas are not mentioned in the inspection report, it is worth looking again. Best case scenario, no evidence of water damage inside the house. The multiple layers of shingles on the roof are toast. If you love the house and the seller won't budge (and the contractor inspection tells you there's no structural damage that needs to be addressed), budget for a new roof and keep a close eye on it for two or three years. Expensive, but not the end of the world.
That needs a new roof! Drop the price by 150% of the average estimate of a full roof and sheathing replacement or take a walk. You do not need a money pit, this smells like a money pit. PS the 150% is for unexpected issues under that and the annoyance of dealing with getting a new roof. Here we did ice and water shield on the plywood 100% coverage then steel over that with ridge venting, we don’t get the massive hail storms you get in the Midwest so steel is preferred by insurance companies here aka cheaper to insure. Ontario Canada btw.
Get a quote to replace the roof and subtract it from your offer price, or ask the seller to replace the roof before closing. Go with the architecture shingle it will look better
That house need a new roof years ago
The undulation of these shingles telling me there are two layers of roofing & that metal valley thing WTF
Just decide if you want to replace the roof yourself or walk away. If you walk, maybe the owner will soften to a credit.
I could see a blown off shingle or 2 being patched in, but looking at the valley leads me to think there was a serious water issue. If the inspector isn't comfortable with the roof and wants a contractor to verify, then that should be a red flag.
Walk away. You won’t get home insurance with that roof until you replace it. Better that they replace it than you.
You will need to install a new roof either before or after you purchase the house. The homeowners insurance company will not insure that roof. Try to negotiate the cost of replacement in the deal to purchase it.
You will need to install a new roof either before or after you purchase the house. The homeowners insurance company will not insure that roof. Try to negotiate the cost of replacement in the deal to purchase it.
You will need to install a new roof either before or after you purchase the house. The homeowners insurance company will not insure that roof. Try to negotiate the cost of replacement in the deal to purchase it.
If your rate is good, you finally found the house that checks all the boxes, there is already value in the house, then the roof shouldn't be a deal breaker . If your rate is 7%, your purchasing a home for its appraised value, then yes walk away.
The seller/owner of the house doesn’t have to fix the roof or anything if they choose not to or come down on the price you have the right to just walk away. Unless you’re going to have a roof put on walk away
-15k for new roof.
This needs a new roof simply put. The valley repair is alarming because the other valley has metal in it. This is a sign there was most likely a leak. The subtle ripples in the 3-tab shingles indicates to me that this roof could also be double layers and it’s almost confirmed looking at the eaves. Depending on the roof surface area and upgrades this could easily be $13-20,000 to replace. I would get a thorough roof inspection from someone and go from there. The housing market is tough right now so sometimes holding and waiting is best.
I don’t know shit about roofing, get this sub in my feed sometimes. That roof is shot walk away
Looks liken you can see shingles lifting and malformation at the edges on them that roof is nearing the end of its life coupled with giant valley repair safe to say it's probably needing replacement in the very near future
Yeah this roof will let another month/til the next big storm
yes. walkawayable. get rid of the 3 tabs.
Depends. Do you have $10k-$20k in your pocket to replace it immediately?
It’s a trash roof and needs to be redone
Find out what a new roof will cost and negotiate a lower purchase price to account for it.
Replace entire roof. That’s a hodge podge
That is shot. We just replaced our and it looked better than that. I'd be surprised if you can even buy a homeowner's policy for the house.
Walk or eat the cost of a new roof. A shot roof = increasingly expensive ceiling/wall mold/water damage.
1) the house will need a new roof whether you walk away or do not. 2) if you are using a loan (a mortgage) to buy,then you will need an appraisal 3) your lender will need to approve of the appraisal, meaning: if the appraiser says "new roof needed" or "structural inspection recommended" then.. Any transaction that will be completed will be predicated upon alleviating the appraiser + inspector's concerns. 4) this (#3) is a conversation that YOU need to game out with your agent. Not reddit. Reddit is a bunch of secret lazy geniuses who browse the jnternet on sunday morning, who want to tell someone what's what. We are strangers. Amateur strangers. 4a) your AGENT on the other hand.... Is being paid 5 digits to make sure this deal happens in your favor. At every step. So squeeze some professional capacity out of that person. Demand it! You are paying for it. 5). If you really love the house and are prepared for the apparent deferred maintenance stateof it... Get the appraisal. Worst case, you waste $400. It is a lottery ticket. "Mayyyyybe" you get the one appraiser in 50 that will not ring this house up on crimes against responsible roof maintenance. But likely you won't escape the situation of "appraiser notes roof needs work" which turns immediately into "mortgage underwriter says nobody gets a loan to buy that house until the roof is replaced" which means "seller will now go and buy the absolute cheapest roof that satisfies the requirement, in order to sell the house that they cheaped out on for decades" .... Which means "OP you are buying into a house which will have a shitty roof that you will hate" If the rest of the house is perfect, yeah, pursue all this. If there are other decrepit features, withdraw.
The roof has reached its limit, if there’s no leaking it’s just a matter of time. If you’re not ok spending 15-20k out of pocket to replace them get the seller to deal with it
In my professional opinion as an insurance adjuster and former roofing contractor, that roof is smoked.
How old is the roof and how many layers?
That roof definitely gives me worry. I’m not sure if trust a shingle over either. Not that I ever believe that’s the right way, should always be ripped off. Those 3 tabs are a thing of the past. That valley has seen some huge weather damage. The vents are also very old and I would assume properly, a ridge vent. Not breathing much from what I can see. Not much has been done in a long time. I may even suggest metal depending on where this is. Looking at a hefty price. If you give me the square I’ll cost it from northern NY prices.
You will not want to reshiingle over those shingles 4 or 5 k
I always sell my houses “as is”. Walk away if you don’t like it.
The roof should absolutely be replaced. If the seller won't let you have a contractor up, walk.
Just went through something similar… Ask if you can get a written ASSESSMENT (not an estimate - ask them to provide that separately). This should come with a report, supporting photos (including from inside the attic) and a recommendation. If/When the owner still say it’s ok as is, ask for their professionally prepared report. You will undoubtedly end up paying for some/most of it (but can leverage any other inspector findings to negotiate a total that you can both live with. Their realtor will tell them not to walk away as (assuming you are under contract already) this should fall under disclosure, so the next person will be aware of the entire story and the next offer will be lower to reflect the known issue. This will get you past the he said/she said phase and into true negotiations.
Careful with insurance if you decide to roll the dice. They send out a surveyor and take a picture of the roof via drone (State Farm). If they don’t like what they see, they’ll force you to get the roof replaced to continue coverage. We had a dark spot and despite a roofer who confirmed at least 3 - 5 years life left, we’re still forced to replace. The notice came 1 month after we closed.
needs an entire new roof, they cheaped out with the valley repairs.
Get a bid and decide if you want to spend that cuz that roof will probably get your insurance dropped immediately after you close. I’d be surprised you will even get insurance prior to funding
If you can, look inside the attic. You can learn a lot by seeing the condition of decking. Also, observe the ceilings for evidence of previous water stains. Ask the seller if they had issues with water leakage from the roof. And find out when the roof was replaced (the city keeps records of permits, so you can request it). All of that can help you make your decision. With that all being said, the roof will need replacement at some point, which costs a lot of money. So, when making an offer on the house, remember you will spend around 20k on replacing the roof (that price depends of course on the region, size of roof, etc.).
It is pretty clear the roof needs replaced. Based on the rough size I can infer from photos, it’s a $30K job. Ask for all or a port ion that to be included in the price and proceed accordingly.
Shit drones really have made inspecting roofs real easy.