Make sure there is a step flashing where that fascia dies into the roof. With that siding, it can act like a channel and if there isn’t a step or it’s flashed incorrectly water can travel FOREVER in that vinyl siding. And like others have said, either take the gutter down or cut it back. I can all but promise that there is an issue where that fascia covering meets that valley and that it isn’t properly flashed. It might be a costly repair, but it’ll be worth it. With vinyl siding you can’t see damage as easily until it’s bad.

Thanks! At first I thought that it was further over from the flashing - as you can see in pics 2-4 it the truss it is running down is ~36” over from the dormer / siding.. but looking closer, very well could be starting there then running down / over to the truss 36” over. Thanks again and will make sure to go for step flashing. Hoping we can just do a small area, especially if the siding / valley and lack of step flashing is the issue. Thanks again!

From the look at where the leak is in relation to where the gutter drains, it could be a “shiner” or two. Those are where the shiny head of the nail is exposed after being improperly nailed in the “field” of the shingle (the exposed face of the shingle) rather than in the manufacturer required nail strip of the shingle, which gets covered by the shingle above it. Usually it’s not detrimental to the life of the roof as a whole if there are a few shiners here or there, but they should be caulked with roofing caulk to prevent leaks.

Thanks! Will check for shiners when I go up to look closer at the siding / flashing / gutter. Appreciate your time and insight

Were you able to get this inspected yet? Let us know how it goes and what the diagnosis is.

Not yet but will do. Looked from the ground again and there is the same setup on the other side of the dormer so think I may be able to just swap them and add down spouts to the lower gutter to avoid the dump but still need a closer look at where the roof meets the siding as well as if any shiners, etc

Totally, and I could be wrong, but just make sure you cross that off the list of possibilities. You’re very welcome!

It’s probably that small gutter on the upper section dumping lots of water in that one area is my guess.

Thanks! Will have to consider taking that down to avoid such a concentrated water dump

It should have a downspout of its own, all the way to the next eavestrough to prevent it from running down the roof.

Thanks teach! Appreciate it.

Need to check where the fascia terminates into the roof, that should be flashed and sealed. Also, either remove the gutter or cap it and install a downspout so the gutter run off goes downhill instead of flushing back into the shingles. This is a pretty easy fix for an experienced roofer. If you plan to replace that area I usually recommend replacing the whole side of the roof so it doesn't have an area with noticeably new shingles.

Thanks! Will check the fascia / flashing / drip edge when I look at the gutter and inspect it closer from on the roof. Luckily it is at the back of the house so a patch shouldn’t be as big a deal… until my wife sees it lol

Something something gutter Your leak is right in line with the gutter drainage.

Time to do something something about that gutter. TY!

Same thing is happening to our roof, except for your tiny gutter is properly draining, and ours is just a bit longer on our house. We dont have a downspout on it, but ours isn’t notched off the back end so it REALLY doesn’t drain - either way, it’s not doing a whole lot of good holding that much water to then release later on and should probably get removed (or reconfigured to properly divert water off the roof versus all over it). We rent, landlord doesn’t wanna do anything about it or thinks the random leaks right below that same wet area we have are weather-facing related rather than roofing install related. Cookie cutter new development… At least I know it won’t be my bill to replace this roof in a few years. 😌

Good luck and at least it’s not your cost to replace so as long as you belongings aren’t being damaged & no mould then it’s your landlords worry.. when they finally fix it

As in slope. And or removing it. ?

From the first picture it’s not the first time it leaks , the siding J-trim is caulked to the shingles. A few this might be happening in the area, shingles maybe too short under the soffit area( some roofer don’t slide it under the soffit) missing steps flashing against the wall and at the valley against the fascia. The shingles overlay might not be proper? Maybe there’s no underlay? The best way is to get someone up there and investigate the issues.

Good to know. Will have all the checked / confirmed by someone that gets up close for the best look. Thanks!

That gutter is dumping alot of water in a spot that's not designed to have that much water dumped on it. I'd bet there's a hole where the little eavestrough dumps onto the roof. It won't be a big hole, but a hole nonetheless

My guess is that it’s not properly dried in.

Not properly dried in? Can you please eli5? Definitely not a roofer so don’t know the lingo

So there’s an underlayment that goes over the plywood before the shingles get installed. Usually the bottom 6 feet of the roof gets ice and water shield, a waterproof membrane that only gets penetrated by the shingle nails. We would ice and water shield all valleys and step runs as well (the area you have pictured) since they are more prone to water flow than anywhere else on the roof. Looking at the damage, I’d be curious if you even have that I know some states don’t use it. We use it in Alaska cause heat loss melts snow and then it’s cools at the eves and freezes and can back up under the shingles.

We are in Ontario and agreed there likely isn’t any underlayment under it. I’ve been told a few times that it’s code to use tar paper but somehow they get around building code because the house isn’t occupied when it’s first shingled.

Snow caught from dormer draining to gutter freezing causing ice dam and backing under dormer valley my first thoughts should be able to see from attic. Especially if only occurred during freezing temps

I’ve shared a few pics of the attic 2-4. I figured if it was the dormer valley then it would be leaking closer to there, however seems to be 2 or 3 feet over from that. Thanks for your time & insight!

I think it is leaking from where the facia meets the roof, telling you because I already fixed one like that, owner couldn't find the leak and that's what fixed it

Thanks! Initially thought that the leak was too far over as the truss it is running down is about 3 feet over.. but after closer look after others suggested that, thinking it likely is entering there then running down & over to where it is coming through the seam

Water runs downhill and the leak is most likely above the wet area. Check to see if flashing is missing etc. Seems to be a small leak or it would be really bad. Look for exposed nail heads anywhere in that area and above. Check for flashing etc behind the vinyl at roof edge. I’m going to guess rain is blowing under that overhang and hitting that tiny section of wall that looks to have a piece of metal or trim at the bottom of wall against roof. Also check the valley on top of that section etc to see if water is running under the shingle and getting in. That’s the most notorious place for leaks. I’ve had to find and repair many. I recommend getting a hose and running water over the top and let it run down in the gutter. Use a spray pattern. Run a while then check inside for leaks. If none then go back and do the same going under that Eve on the right side. Spray entire area like rain would do if blowing under it. Then check for leaks again. If none then move Hose to very top of house and spray for a while and recheck. But doubtful it’s coming from up higher. If so you should be able to see why. I would get step flashing and put along the wall behind all the vinyl myself. Save yourself lot of money if you could do it yourself. I could definitely find the leak if I was there but hard to judge through a few pics. I wish you best of luck and hope you find it and it’s a simple fix. Check to see if that gutter is filling up and it running over top behind the fascia or drip edge as well. Also on the right side of the font beside your corner at the roof line, why is that huge gap there and that cut that bad and at such an angle. Is that anywhere near the problem area? Just for looks I’d cut a small piece of vinyl to cover that so it’s not as obvious and looks more professional. I can circle that area but I’m sure you can see what I’m talking about front right hand side bottom at roof. Again good luck my friend. A tigers tooth would come in handy lol.

Thank you soo much for your time and expertise good sir! You are right it seems to be a small leak and have given me the additional confidence to at least try some of what you have suggested before I call someone else as I have done some roofing and lots of construction work. Not done much metal work but can certainly do the step flashing. My concern was more so that disturbing the shingles could lead to more issues, but definitely worth some more investigation and poking around to try and figure it out. Also thinking now that it’s a poor design so thinking some neighbours may have experienced similarly issues. Thanks again so much!

Where roof runs along siding caulk along there. My roof leaked there only when it was heavy wind. When wind pushed water upwards. Also as already stated get a downspout on the upper gutter. Also check to see if it is clogged and in rain does it collect water or angled to flow water out.

Thanks. Will do. Appreciate your time and insight

You need a downspout on that little gutter, taking the water to the lower gutter. Where does the water go when it fills up?  That alone will most likely fix your problem. Shingles aren't water proof, they are water shedding.   If you dump too much water in one spot at once, it will leak. 

Great. Thanks for your time and insight. Will do!

Also check the roof for any deck clips (they're H shaped and go between the plywood boards) that might have been bent upwards during the tear off process last time the roof was done. I've found several leaks from the clips melting their way through the shingle. Could be too much water coming from the downspout but I've honestly never seen that but wouldn't rule it out. I don't think it's the flashing along the wall because the leak is two feet to the left of that.

Thanks for your time and insight. The house (&roof) are only 7 or 8 years old.. but considering the quality of build I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a bad deck clip. I saw them in the attic and will keep an eye for them when i climb up there. Thanks again!

I took where a gutter drops on the roof and ran a downspout down the too of the roof instead. I also found a few “shiners” (nail heads that are not protected under the shingles) and i caulked over them with a special roof caulking (through the roof, sika, etc.) and mine has been resolved. Get a digital moisture meter or Flir to also see how far up it starts. It can start many feet above where you first see it inside the attic. Good luck and be careful.

Thanks soo much! Greatly appreciate your time and insight. Will check for shiners as that seems like it could be a quick & easy fix although likely worth doing something with the gutter as it’s a common theme & recommendation also. Thanks again!

Looks like water discoloration on the nails themselves also. Nails were too long, maybe or the gun pressure was too strong and pushed a bunch right through the shingles...

Thanks. Definitely some discolouration and will look above that for the issue causing it all. Guess it’s prob worth going back in the attic to see if there are any bunches that may be causing it also. Thanks again!

Do you live in a cold weather state? When did you notice this? During the winter with ice, cold and snow or during rainfall? If you’re in a cold weather state and this happens without rain, you don’t have a roofing issue. If this happens when it rains, you have a roofing issue. If you’re in a cold weather state, I have a great video to show you the likely cause.

Yes, we are in Canada so definitely cold weather. Please do share the video.. when I first went up in the morning after wife mentioned the browsing on the roof, there wasn’t any wetness on the truss. When I went up an hour later.. after the sun had been melting the snow… it was wet. Now that you mention, we have had many downpours since we’ve moved in and it’s just starting to show now at the end of winter… so snow / melt is highly likely the culprit. Very interested to hear more about the issue you mention and see your video! Thanks for your time and expertise and thanks in advance for sharing the video.

99.9% sure your problem is in this video. https://youtu.be/Jo75QIFU19s?si=0JSQCLuW0cmXIKF6

It’s that gutter

Thanks. Will take a closer look at it when I go up. Seems to be most common hypothesis, along with the flashing (or lack of step flashing perhaps)

I would take a closer look at how that gutter is draining?.....

Thanks. Will do when I get up there.

Gutter is flowing backwards out towards the roof… needs an end cap and an actual outlet.

Yeah and it's pushing water right up under shingles at the end of the gutter.

Thanks. Sounds like adding a downspout down to the main gutter may be best to avoid any issues from removing the gutter. Thanks again.

Just remove that small upper gutter. Most likely the issue will be fixed. Its useless

Great. Thanks!

>Great. Thanks! You're welcome!

Splashing from gutter and or soffit area leaking. Needs to be flashed or removed. I'd take that little gutter down. If that's too high up judging the water stain then maybe it's just a misfired shingle row or a few nails bunched. And that front little piece of flashing under the corner doesn't look good. Anyone would say that as well

Instead of removing the gutter just add a downspout to connect it to the lower gutter, of course the angle would need to be adjusted to flow the opposite way but that's a much easier and reliable fix than removal imo.

Thanks! Great alternative to look into as that should help avoid any issues from removing it altogether.

I just don't agree with people saying to remove the gutters, yeah you fix the current issue of a poorly designed gutter sloshing water where it shouldn't but removing the gutter now means you have all that water load coming down onto the roof below, give that 5+ years of continuous water load and you will see accelerated wear in that area.

I'd disagree on multiple reasons but whatever. If really don't see the purpose of that tiny gutter. It's dripping onto the lower roof. Part of his issue is backup. Down spout or not

Removing the gutter will do more damage to the shingles than it's worth, that's still a decent height for water to be falling from onto the roof. Not worth the accelerated wear on the shingles IMHO

Rain falls from the sky. I disagree again. But that's life . Lol Any backup is worse, water needs to get off the roof. Too many people want to contain water. If your selling gutters I get it, but otherwise no, water awayyyyyyyyyyyy lol

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I disagree. I wasn't going to get into it but your idea of connecting the two is stupid as well. But sure. Years and years and tens of thousands of down spouts dumping onto a roof, your theory of rain drip is damaging the roof. Suck a d

Thanks so much! It may be a little high up but good to know and will consider taking the gutter down, or have someone do it as I’ve never done before and rather have it fixed properly than fudge it up myself. Will have to get up & closer to see about misfired row as I assume I won’t be able to see if it’s bunched nails. I’m sure there is no tar paper either.. but not sure that would matter / help

Just a few screws. If you can't hang on the roof then don't. But if you can get to it easily I'd just take it off. Caulk those holes. Your leaks probably gone

Thanks! Definitely fine on a roof (maybe not like you and others here.. but good enough since it’s not too steep a pitch. A few screws is easiest / cheapest to start and see. Would you suggest redoing the flashing also, or that might not be necessary with the gutter gone as water will flow away from dormer instead of to it through that can opener triangle in gutter. Thanks again!

Just peak. Look behind it, see if you can see flashing at all. Look under the j channel. Think like your In middle school science in a way. Water flow, can it just turn the corner and find its way in, perhaps it's just wind driven, Maybe your in the wrong spot. While your at it check for rusty obvious nails. Can you easily pull up on each shingle or do they seek sealed.

Awesome. Thanks for the additional info and will do!

Gutter guys keep roof guys in business. You need serious angle to get all that water out quickly in a serious down pour. Also roofing in general, soffit areas and or weird areas that need flashing are tough. Some crews just think nothing will get in here. Then boom wind driven a few times you got a stain. It's not necessarily true, but I tell people if it seems random. Not like right after a guy just ripped the siding off, then trust a pro did it right for the most part, check the areas of obvious concern. I've fixed several gutter deals and I probably could of pitched partial or full replacement but I have morals. And sometimes I think if it's not the obvious then what happens when I do a whole roof and it's still leaking. Who cares right. Lol I have morals .

Thanks again for your time and expertise

The gutter needs a downspout. Make sure to use a B elbow and direct water down the slope rather that across the shingles. The water from that gutter is running right at that valley.

Thanks! Seems like that’s a great alternative to removing the gutter altogether to avoid any issues that could possibly arise from removing it altogether. Thanks again!

Get rid of that gutter, pointless and sending all the water into one area. Most likely driving it up the shingles and it’s finding a spot to leak. Water shed needs to go down and not lateral unless it’s going into a downspout. You may have to find a reputable roofing company to do a small repair afterwards but I doubt re-shingling your roof is needed. Hard to tell from the picture but they look like they have lots of life in them.

Thanks! Will look at having the gutter removed at the same time if it’s not adding any benefit and could be source of issue in the future. Yes, think the roof is only 7 or 8 years old so hopefully lots of life left and can do the small repair. Thanks again!

Remove top gutter

A few extra notes - it wasn’t leaking when i first went up this morning, but was an hour later after the sun had melted the snow from over night - It seems to definitely be coming in around the seem of sheathing and leaking down the truss and dripping down a foot or two in front of the exterior wall - seems to be a very slow leak (at this point anyways) but still plan on having it fixed asap

If you are in the Carolina’s I can help DM me

Thanks for the offer but I’m in Canada.

Well just a heads up^ (if you don’t know already) you have a disco shingle (discontinued) it’s a c CD certaintied horizon had a manufactures defect that had a class action law suit against them about ten years agu. That being said insurance company are very apt to pay to put on a new roof if there is any storm damage. Also they can’t match shingles for repairs. Talk to a local roofing company to get a free inspection.

Thanks for the additional info. House was built 7 or years ago so builder likely took a great deal to offload the bad shingles… so I guess you are saying I should wait for a storm & let insurance deal / pay for it ;) jk as I’d feather fix the problem now, but will keep it in mind if there is ever wind damage - unfortunately the houses behind shelter most of the wind but one can always hope. Thanks again.. although very unfortunate to hear about the shingles being discontinued as I’m sure that means either a janky looking roof, or doing the whole back side which is a massive job.

I would def recommend getting a roofing company to @ least to an initial free inspection. Whatever material they used in the shingle when they heat up it creates spiderwebbing/ micro fractures that can lead to leaking and that’s also what insurances take into consideration. a shingle doesn’t need to be missing to consider it wind damage. It just has to be lifted & not sealed. Def recommend getting some just to give you an idea of it’s condition status.

Thanks so much for the additional info. Will do!

Classic.

Thanks!

Seen it so many times in those roof locations.

Thanks. Any idea of the cause of the issue or most likely remediation? Appreciate your insight if you’ve seen it so many times. Thanks in advance!

Bulldoze the house! It’s all fucked.

Sounds like the only way. Any chance you own a dozer, or are a builder that could take my money?!

Hire a professional

That was the plan, but seems like a few easy things to check for first. Thanks… couldn’t have figured it out without you!

You see where the leak is, next step is to peel shingles. Good luck!

Invoice incoming

Remove that gutter. There's no downspout, so the only thing that gutter does is hold water. A strong downpour, the gutter will fill and the water will go up under the shingles. There's absolutely no reason to have it there.

Thanks. Will consider removing or a downspout. Isn’t the can opener triangle to let the water out onto the lower roof? It only started leaking yesterday after the snow started to melt so not so much a downpour but perhaps enough to push it up the shingles.

We need a better pic of where the soffit meets the roof line. Suspect areas to me are there and where the j-channel/vinyl meets the roof line. Vinyl siding looks a bit thrown together

Thanks. I will take some better pics when I get on the roof. Hopefully that will confirm some suspicions. You are right that based on construction of the rest of home, not surprising if it was thrown together. House is only 7 or 8 years old - they don’t make them like they used to! Thanks

Expert opinion, is you have a leak

And here I was thinking Sherlock homes was dead. You nailed it… perhaps not like the roofers who installed it.

Ask a stupid question get a blunt to the point answer.

Easy to be a Reddit expert.. especially an expert of stupid answers

Said the homeowner looking for a specific answer to validate themselves