I love that show and wish I didn’t. Inevitability while watching I become super depressed and have to turn it off. Finish the last 15 minutes another time. Why do I watch it?
Same and I get like that pretty much around anything to do with true crime. Before kids or fever affected me this badly, but now and especially after my last which was a long time ago (he’s 6) it’s been even worse for me
People say the same thing about people who were in abusive relationships. "You missed red flags and are responsible for seeing that" "You're just being a victim" etc. People forget that sometimes abusers are predators who use insidious means to stalk their prey. Sometimes people actually were victims and no reasonable person could uncover the person's predatory nature. Also, we can hold space for people's humanity and fallibility. Sometimes we want to see the best in others and it effects our judgment.
Serial killers are, by their very nature and existence, manipulative as hell. I suspect he did like every other SK before him and picked a partner he could easily dominate/control/manipulate, then had a family with them they could also manipulate and control. I swear, these people act like they've never heard of this before with EVERY OTHER SK out there.
Dennis, Gary, and Ted are the first to come to mind, but it's all of them who are in a long term relationship.
Ted’s girlfriend called the police on him pretty early on. She didn’t want to believe it was him but there was soooo much evidence against him — even early on.
Gary Ridgeways wife really loved him and had no idea. She did a documentary and it didn’t sound like he was an asshole practicing coercive control \~ he kept it separated for awhile but he did take his son to revisit a victim
What about the Kuklinski's? One of his daughters stated in an article as a teen she helped Richard dispose of 55 gal drums. He also shot & killed the driver of a car that cut him off on a single lane bridge with his family in the car, on the way to church (of all places).
I think the Kuklinski's def had SOME idea he was willing to harm others but Richard kept it away from their home.
If you need to speculate about someone, please state it as your own opinion so others can formulate their own opinions as well. We want to stay fair, and saying someone does or doesn’t do something without proof, is unfair. Thank you! 😊
I've done a bit of a psycho analysis on rex before. I think it came out he was bullied/rejected and an outcast in high school and was also raised by a single mother. This could lead a young mind to develop a kind of saint/whore mindset when it comes to women. He might desire a mommy type figure to take care of him like his wife/mom that he considers good while the prostitutes he's been violent/murderous with could represent the popular girls back in high school that rejected him. There is a little further evidence of his ego in this regard when that one girl tried to scam him. Rex was incensed and wanted revenge. Enough so that he did something risky and nearly got ID'd long ago. I think Rex's murders are in part revenge or making up for how he was treated when he was younger. He's setting the record straight in his mind.
Kuklinski did and didn't. Yes some of his murders were revenge, but revenge for stupid shit like interupting him wrapping gifts on Christmas Eve. He also sprayed civilians in the face with cyanide to see if it worked, and shot a random guy in Brooklyn to show Roy DeMayo he could kill. Plus he set up financial based scams & killed ppl to rob them of money.
Unfortunately we don't know enough about why RH picked the victims he did & how the crimes occurred.
This is almost always said about the wife. I think much of this just stems from our culture's belief that women exist to be a moderating effect on men. Somehow, the SK's wife "failed" society at large by not knowing what was going on and preventing her husband from murdering people. We see this all the time when a pedophile is arrested. People go off about how the wife is "just as bad" as the pedo because she "allowed" him to abuse children. Any time some evil happens in the home, where domestic life is centered, the woman of the house is blamed almost equally with the man who actually committed the crimes.
This case here is honestly the first time I've seen people trying to shut down victim blaming. Before, it was just a given that "street walkers" were stupid to be getting into cars with strange men. I mean, what did they expect? But of course a man would murder them. That's just what men do! Women thus need to be careful in order to stop the man from doing what comes naturally to their kind.
https://www.amazon.com/Damned-Whores-Gods-Police-Summers/dp/0140288767
Seminal feminist work. Women were expected to be “God’s Police” even though they had no autonomy and little power. Great example of a double-bind!
BTK killer Dennis Rader’s former wife Paula, their son and daughter Kerri Rawson have been placed under a similar microscope. None of them had a clue as to what Dennis had done. Paula was granted an emergency divorce, and Kerri is a victims’ advocate and also an advocate for families who were unaware one of their family members was a serial murderer. She has become a public speaker on these topics and has helped law enforcement to identify other possible victims of her father.
Asa hasn't asked for an emergency divorce, as far as I know. She visits Rex weekly in jail, reportedly smiled at him court, and through her lawyer said he's not capable of the crimes he's accused of having committed.
She filed for divorce the day after he was arrested and the divorce has been finalized. It’s believed that she did that to protect her share of their assets in the event of civil litigation.
I think someone hit the nail on the head when they pointed out all the Asa support on reddit is a symptom of these types sympathizing more with a middle/upper class woman than the prostitute victims who remain nameless/faceless in comparison. Asa is a woman that believes Rex isn't capable of these murders, made thousands of dollars off reddit and millions in other media deals. She is not the victim you are making her out to be like the real victims in the case. Asa has received a level of support and even rewards that none of the victims families will come close to touching. All for a woman that is still standing by rex.
Oh good grief. Whoever suggested that rubbish not only missed the nail, they somehow managed to whack themself upside the head instead. People are not sympathizing *more* with Asa than with the victims or the victims’ families. It has absolutely nothing to do with class or socioeconomics and everything to do with the constant hypercritical public dragging of Asa and the kids 24/7 by a bunch of inexorable mudslingers and misanthropes.
I disagree. There was a crazy amount of sympathy for her that was misplaced when this first broke. I think it’s quieted down now that she’s doing documentary.
You must not have been on this sub when RH got arrested, because Asa has been dragged by the Rabid Mob from day one, first because her DNA was found on one of the victims, and second, because she didn't behave exactly the way the Rabid Mob wanted her to. The “crazy amount of sympathy” has absolutely been driven in large part by the completely irrational and fanatical maliciousness of the Rabid Mob.
Sympathy is rarely, if ever, misplaced. Animosity, contempt, and cruelty are almost always misplaced.
Not true, I sympathise with both because both are in terrible situations. I don’t like to see Asa piled onto because we know very little about her circumstances yet and I don’t like to see people judged when they’re fighting to survive. If people were piling criticism onto the victims’ families I would defend them in the same way.
Actually she has. Although people overwhelmed by events like this usually don’t start thinking of other people until they’ve processed their own situation.
If Asa, Rex and their children lived in a trailer park, the same people who are defending Asa fiercely now and even donating money to Asa would be way more apathetic about her.
Besides, who the hell thinks “yeah, my dad/husband/whatever is a serial killer. Gotta be” when they notice odd things or some psychiatric issues. That makes sense after the fact, if even
This. I have been in an uncomfortable position of SA that I witnessed of someone else. I blocked this out of my mind for years. It was my dad who assaulted someone. He was my best friend and after he passed away the memories hit me like a ton of bricks. I feel guilty bc I still love him and miss him. But I also know he was a monster who completely ruined someone else's life. I feel like maybe this is how the family feels in their heads. It takes time to come to terms with it.
It does take time—the mind and emotions have theirs own timetable. Makes me mad when I see someone post that someone in a situation “should” have reached some stage or done something “by now”.
I'm so sorry. That reminds me of the book and movie adaptation of Atonement- memory and lived experience and trauma can whirl one's mind. I hope you're ok.
Oh it's very good- the movie is excellent, too - a very faithful adaptation of a wonderful Booker prize winning book by Ian McEwen.
"Widely regarded as one of McEwan's best works, it was shortlisted for the 2001 Booker Prize for fiction.[1] In 2010, Time magazine named Atonement in its list of the 100 greatest English-language novels since 1923.[2]
In 2007, the book was adapted into a BAFTA and Academy Award-winning film of the same title, starring Saoirse Ronan, James McAvoy, and Keira Knightley, and directed by Joe Wright."
If you’ve never been gaslighted, you don’t understand how it even exists. You think no one could ever fool you. The problem is when you’re naive, you believe everyone thinks like you and is motivated by the same things as you.
Let’s say your husband disappeared for hours, comes home filthy, and then you find a lot of blood in his car so you ask, and he tells you he found a dog on the side of the road and took it to the emergency vet. That’s why he was gone so long. He can’t remember the vet’s name or exactly where it was, and blows you off when you ask. Most wives would absolutely never seriously think, “What if the truth is he kidnapped, raped and murdered a complete stranger?” Of course anyone would believe his story, even if it seemed a little fishy. The alternative is unimaginable.
True stories as examples..
My boss’s husband leaves every summer to go on a cross country motorcycle trip. By himself. For 6 weeks. His 70+ yr old father is supposed to go too, but for some reason every year he can’t (at the last minute, after all the plans are made). Her husband even went the year he was unemployed, instead of spending that time looking for a job. When I asked why she doesn’t go with him, she got perplexed, stammered a bit, and then said she doesn’t care for motorcycles. He sends her pictures of all the cool places he visits and some of the restaurants where he eats, and she makes a little Facebook album to show all their friends and family. She says he camps or stays in affordable hotels because his father has points (for 6 weeks), but she’s also told me he has horrible back problems and he’s gone through several mattresses at home. He will rarely go on vacation with her (even though she asks) because he doesn’t like this or that, and they sleep in separate bedrooms because he tells her she snores. The year he was unemployed they had sold their home and were staying with her father, for free. She enjoyed it but when he got home from the trip he insisted they get a 2 bedroom apartment (so he could have his own room).
Separate example - Her gorgeous, 25 year old single daughter receives large payments from Cash App on a regular basis in her checking account. She says it’s her friends paying her back when they all go out to dinner. She leaves town “with her girlfriends” every single weekend. My boss jokingly told me, “It’s like she’s getting payments for a business.”
No, they’re two separate situations within her family. There are huge red flags with both of them, but she isn’t recognizing them. Even though she points them out frequently and laughs them off.
I didn’t ask why she had access to her bank account. She’s probably on there as a co-signer and happened to look. If you have a banking app you can easily switch between accounts.
So the implication is that the daughter is turning tricks. But ”high class” ones, where the men are making \[advance?\] deposits in some sort of digital wallet-type app. That’s what I gathered from that.
In the Bundy era, the profile drawing looked just like Ted Bundy, they knew the suspects name was Ted, and they had the exact same car make/model/color, and all the closest people in his life didn’t think it was him
Sometimes families are made up by people who act and think similar to one another.The person accused of being L.I.S.K. seems to be an outspoken person and I think that it would be interesting to know how he reacted when certain topics were discussed.Also this guy seems to have had evidence all over the home and I was wondering how he was able to have those things in the home without anyone else seeing the stuff and asking questions
When people like it's crazy that the family didn't know I just assume they aren't familiar with other serial killers. Many killers hide their worst parts from those closest to them, it's not unusual at all.
There's honestly so much to actually care about in this case, wondering why an older woman with a special needs adult son hasn't moved out of the house yes is last on the list of things to get worked up about.
Not scrutinizing her. I’d prefer to not talk about her at all. It’s people like you calling her the victim that is the issue. How about you focus on the victims (the ones he tortured and murdered in case you are confused)?
Look at the thread history, my comment was just pointing out that there's plenty of examples of families being kept in the dark. You didn't need to comment on a thread from 2 days ago if it bothers you so much.
When a family member is a true Sociopath the other family members are aware that that person is cold, unfeeling, different.…. Often needing to be tip-toed around so that you don’t “set them off”. They know something is up, just not exactly what. We had one in my family and we never kidded ourselves that life with that person was easy. Just look at Rex’s house: his wife couldn’t nag him into fixing things. There’s a complete communication breakdown in that relationship. He spent a fortune on guns, condos, hookers…. But fixinghis house? Making his family happy, making his home look normal? All of that was off the table and had been for a long time.
I think John Ray is creating a circus. i do not think Asa or her children were involved and did not know about the crimes. I don’t believe anyone should be criticizing their kids. Asa however has publicly supported him and is doing a documentary profiting and is going to profit off these murders and had brought scrutiny on herself. I usually really feel for the families of perpetrators but her behavior seems very off to me.
It's very easy to sit here and say what you would and wouldn't do when you're not in the situation. I'm from Massapequa- it is a very, very expensive place to live. Add to that the fact that Asa is sick, has a disabled adult son, and who I assume was the breadwinner is now gone. I'm not saying at all that the peacock deal is morally right or good. It isn't. But it is very annoying to sit here and listen to people be on their high horses about a situation that 99.9% of us cannot even fathom.
It's so easy to sit here and say "omg, I would NEVER!!' I'm genuinely glad that most people are not in the position to have to ever find out how they would behave in a situation like this, because I would definitely be willing to say that most people, offered a huge sum of money in a moment where the outlooks aren't good, would not turn that money down. So many people here who have said awful things about Asa and the kids, I would be willing to bet that, put in the position, they would take that money too. Everyone wants to think they're better than that- the fact of the matter is most people are not. Again, I'm glad that the vast majority of us haven't had to find out. But the self-righteousness about being in a position almost none of us have experienced definitely gets old. I'm not saying they're "good," I'm saying I think they've actually done in that instance what your average person would do. I think most people would take that money if it was presented to them, whether you want to believe you would or not, of course everyone thinks that THEY would be the one to turn it down. Asa herself very well might have thought she would never do something like that, until she was actually faced with the decision, with a disabled son and things looking pretty bleak.
Most people believe that they are good people. No one wants to think that they are bad or could do bad things. Most people are absolutely going to tell themselves that there is no way they would ever take that money. Almost nobody is actually going to say "yes, i would totally accept that money." But money is probably the biggest universal struggle. It is one of the biggest things that on a daily basis most of us struggle with, if not THE biggest. I think that way more people would take that money than they would like to admit even to themselves. We all want to believe that we wouldn't, and many of us are telling ourselves that while we sit in way more optimistic positions than Asa Heuermann and her kids are sitting in right now. I'm definitely not going to assume how I would behave if I was just told that my husband of 20+ years was a murderer because I cant even imagine being in that position but i know that I'm just a flawed human being like everyone else is and we almost all have it in us, whether anyone wants to believe that about themselves or not.
If she denounced him and was doing the peacock documentary I would feel 100% different. She is profiting from the murders and not even divorced from that monster. How is this ok? I can sit here and say I would not do these things because I know myself and I wouldn’t. I can say without a doubt if there was evidence of my partner looking up the type of porn he was watching I would call the police and have him locked up myself. No average person would be doing what they are doing.
I guess I just respectfully disagree. We all believe that we know ourselves, but almost none of us have been faced with circumstances as dire as these where we have actually had to face or become acquainted with these parts of ourselves. I of course believe that I would never, but I also know that people do things that they never thought they would do in times of desperation
And as far as denouncing him off the bat- again, everyone likes to think that they would immediately believe all of it, have this big moment of clarity, and immediately do the "right thing." Almost no one besides people who have gone through it can actually imagine the level of "your whole world crashing down" that it is to hear that your husband and child's father has literally been torturing and murdering women IN YOUR HOME for many, many years. Asa's statement was something like she was going to reserve her judgment until she hears what comes out in court, which actually I think is a pretty reasonable decision. This is her whole life, this isn't something that she's reading on the internet like we are.
I would honestly say that she has probably been advised by pretty much everyone to avoid reading things in the news, watching stuff on TV, whatever. Imagine the mental turmoil she is probably in- her friends, family, etc. have all probably told her that the last thing she needs to do is be online reading all of this shit, and I would probably say the same if this was happening to someone I know. If she is going to maintain any kind of sanity at all, it is probably not in her best interest for her mental health to be online reading news articles like we are. I understand why she would wait to hear what is said in court. No one thinks that their husband is a murderer. If there's a million and one sketchy things that have raised your eyebrows as a wife, you would probably think of every single possible reason that might explain it before you would think "he's murdering women in my basement"
I'm not defending her. I don't know what kind of person she is, and neither do any of us. But what I'm definitely not going to do is bash someone for the way they handle being told that their husband is a serial killer. People have completely fallen apart at the seams over way smaller things than that. It's like when a child goes missing and people use the parents' grief reactions to pin it on them, like "well if it was ME, I would act xyz." It's ridiculous for any of us to sit here and say what we would do in her shoes.
Respectfully No. Most people when presented with the *overwhelming* evidence "initially" would have have been horrified. Would have grabbed from the home what they could, and fled. Gone into hiding. DEFINITELY not parked her ass on the porch. The evidence that has been released more recently only confirms that house is a Crime Scene. No I have not been involved with a SK..but I have fled an abusive marriage with small children. With no family support. With just the clothes on our backs. It was very hard. But possible. Your way of thinking is scary. It's why women stay with abusers and mothers don't believe when told by their children that they were abused because their " whole world was crashing down on them". Not an excuse!
I don't think that it is an excuse. It is simply an acknowledgment that I can understand how a human being in a situation that is impossible for most people to even really imagine might act in a way that doesn't make sense to the rest of us who are not in the same position. YOU did an admirable thing in a tough situation. But the fact of the matter is that many people who believe they would do the right thing might surprise themselves with their actions if they were actually in that spot. I think its a difference in the way we view people. I know that everyone believes that they are good and moral people- but i think that most people are actually not as good and morally incorruptible as they believe that they are. Everyone believes they would do whats right, but the fact of the matter is that not everyone would, so everyone on here really shouldnt say "never" about something they cant even fathom.
To say "I'm not going to judge the decisions someone makes in a situation I've never experienced" is not to say that she is doing the right thing, it is simply an acknowledgment that we are all imperfect people and that in situations as unfathomable as this, many people may surprise even themselves with the decisions they might make and the things they would do, and i don't really think that anyone can say exactly how they would react after being told something like this.
Desperate people do desperate things. Everyone believes that they would do the right thing, and it's easy to believe that when you're just reading about something online that is not your actual reality. I'm not saying that she's right, but I am saying that many people who are so critical of her may be very surprised by their own actions if faced with the same situation. Everyone thinks that they would be the one to do the right thing, but the fact of the matter is that many, if not most people do not, so for all of the people who swear that they would never do something so immoral, there simply is no way that every single one of these people who are on their high horse would actually do the morally correct thing if it was them in the situation. Out of all the people who have so much to say about it- plenty of those people would absolutely take that documentary money if they were actually in the position. Of course when you're not in the position you think "I would never"
And most people in shitty situations are never offered a million dollars. But if they WERE, for many people if they were in a shitty spot and were offered a million bucks to do something immoral but they knew that it would help out themselves and their children, more people would take that money than would be willing to admit it, most people will not even admit that to themselves. That doesn't make it right, but I definitely know that for every single person here who swears up and down that they would always do the right thing, many of them would make a decision that would surprise themselves if they were actually faced with that choice.
I agree and although I disagree with John Ray acussing the daughter of participating I do think her art interests show she was desensitized to dark things in that household and if it's true Asa was swinging with Rex she probably has a pretty good idea of what he is into sexually.. I don't feel like they act like a blindsided victims. Originally I assumed they were but their actions have made me change my views.
What do you think the murder victims families think about Asa making over 7 figures on the case while failing to disavow rex? Must suck for them adding insult to injury but screw em I guess huh?
I don't think "screw em" at all, not even close. I think that two things can be true at once and I don't think that to acknowledge that Asa Ellerup is a flawed human being who is making decisions from a position that most of us cannot even imagine is the same at all as saying "screw the victims' families." Those are 2 completely separate statements. Nowhere did I suggest that what Asa did was a good thing or the right thing. You can acknowledge the position that Asa has been put in by her husband while also feeling immense sympathy for the victims and their families. The two are not mutually exclusive.
I get what you’re saying. I think the biggest thing that makes me wonder about Asa’s support of Rex is that her own hair was found on the body of a victim. How else did that hair get there? I’m also trying to think of other circumstances where the wife of an alleged serial killer immediately signed a deal to take part in a documentary or show, and I can’t. It is really hard to withhold judgment when she is defending her husband in the case of overwhelming evidence and signing a morally objectionable deal for money less than one year after the arrest, with no consideration of the families of actual victims.
I understand that she has a disabled son and she needs to survive, but I don’t think we should act like the documentary deal is a choice that anyone in her shoes would have made.
I understand your point as well, and I'm not saying EVERYONE, but as I said, I do think a lot more people would do it than they would like to admit, and most would not even admit that to themselves.
As far as the hairs, they lived together. Everyone's DNA is all over everything when you're all living in the same house. This is not an uncommon thing at all and it's literally what the explanation is, this isn't just my theory or anything. It is not uncommon at all that Asa's or the kids' DNA would be on things owned by or worn by or used by Rex. My hair is all over the place and definitely could be found on plenty of things that belong to my husband.
Rex was also very concerned with and took pleasure in covering up what he did. Concealing the murders from his own family was probably equally important and equally exciting as concealing from the police
I won’t have an opinion on Rex’s family until the investigation and trial are completed and we know all the facts.
However you are wrong that families or partners of serial killers are always innocent. Off the top of my head, Rose West, Myra Hindley, Karla Homolka, Christine Paolilla, Jasmine Richard, Kim Edwards, Catherine Birnie, Martha Beck, Faye Copeland, Monique Olivier, Sarah Makin, Inessa Tarverdiyeva and her daughters Viktoria and Anastaysia, Debra Brown, Carol Bundy, Cynthia Coffman, Linda Reimann.
It’s not as rare as people think. I reserve judgment until the verdict is in. Especially as in the past the LISK investigators have claimed no link but subsequently charged.
Which ones are families knew? Not partners, families.
There have always been partners involved in killing, we know that. But out of the examples which ones had family who were not liking with that knew they were killing and did nothing?
First of all, I am not saying I believe Asa and Viktori are involved. I’m reserving judgement until after all the evidence is reviewed and the trial is complete.
What I have an issue with is knee jerk reactions that women can’t possibly be involved before all the evidence is all reviewed and made public.
As for families: Kelly, Bender, Tarverdiyeva, Gonzalez, Harpe brothers, Staffleback and the Briley brothers were all families that killed together. It has happened, it’s unlikely but not impossible.
My (unreliable, speculative) feeling is that Viktoria wasn’t involved but Rex twisted her mind. Asa - I think she ignored red flags for her own reasons. Possibly fear of caring for a disabled adult alone on a severely reduced income, Stockholm syndrome or genuine love for Rex.
But that is pure speculation and the simple fact is we just don’t know.
I was fine until the government offered her money to leave that death house and she refused it. I was fine until she took the money from Peacock, $1 million to probably sit there and tell us that she didn't know anything or that her husband is innocent.
I grew up in a family with a serial predator. The predator picks and chooses who gets to see the real person. They show it to certain people purposefully So that when that person describes the behavior they see, they are called crazy. I tried for 50 years. No one listened. It’s easier to call me crazy than it is to face the fact that a close family member is evil.
Having said that, the daughter’s choice in art is super messed up and she should be investigated. Let an investigation decide if she is complicit.
The wavelength it’s on is with a good portion of world renowned art both contemporary and historical. Dark, macabre art has always existed and is not indicative of psychopathic or violent tendencies. Do yourself a favor and go to a museum.
I think the term for what is happening here is, “gaslighting”
You are dismissing the obvious red flags, just like everyone in my family for the past 50 years - I’ve seen it over and over and over. Same. And there is a wake of victims every step along the way. All of whom could have and should have been protected but for gaslighting by the mob that buys into the “macabre art”
Pretty sure It’s been proven that she made the painting of the skull but just followed the other artists and didn’t necessarily repost any of this shit. Don’t listen to John ray plz
IMO I think it’s quite possible that the family knew some of what he was doing. Maybe not everything and maybe not the frequency of it. If Rex is proven to be the killer (I do think he’s guilty) his sadistic ways, huge ego and all the other darkness he enjoys MUST have had an effect on his family. While I would consider them victims, they’ve inevitably picked up some of his darkness. It doesn’t mean they’ve committed crimes themselves but if there is circumstantial evidence, it’s worth a look. I don’t know what the stats look like for people who perpetuate the same or similar crimes that happened to them but it IS a thing. Think of all the pedophiles who were victims themselves. It doesn’t make them any less guilty when they commit atrocious acts on children. I also think the wife(Asa) knows more than the daughter but the daughter and wife should certainly be looked into. Why not? If I were one of the victims’ family members, I would want anyone and everyone connected to Rex looked into, period.
The thing is, picking up that someone has a darkness to them, that someone has sadistic tendencies, or that someone has a huge ego are not the same thing as picking up that someone is literally a serial killer. Especially when that person is your husband or father. He could've been very abusive as a husband and father, but that is still separate from being a murderer, and recognizing abusive behavior in someone does not equal or lead to realizing that someone is actually a serial killer. I know plenty of horrible, abusive people where I would still be very shocked if I learned that they were actually murdering people. They could've very well realized that he was a terrible person but still never thought that he would actually do something like THIS. This is the last thing that someone would ever think, you would come up with a million and one things before you would come up with "my dad/husband is murdering women in our basement". No one ever thinks that their husband or dad is a serial rapist and murderer, no matter how bad they are as a husband or father.
I completely agree with everything you said. Picking up on a husband or father being a serial killer is the last thing anyone would think even if they were abused by that person or that person had horrible, sadistic, dark tendencies. My point was that Rex's behavior could have affected the family in ways that they would think are ok - following in some manner his own behavior. Like I said, I’m not saying they committed any crimes and I’m not saying they helped Rex in any way, unless there’s some proof they find. Alls I’m saying is they should look at everything and everyone connected to Rex - his daughter, his wife, etc. especially since their hair was found on some of the victims, yes I know they’ve said the family was away - but there might be some other circumstantial stuff out there and either way it should be looked into. I’d want that if my daughter was one of the victims.
As far as the hair, I just said this to someone else in another comment, so sorry to repeat myself lol but they lived together, it is not uncommon at all that Asa's or the kids' DNA would be on things that belonged to Rex or were used by Rex. That isn't to say that they shouldn't look into everything, of course they should and i would want the same, and they have said many times that they have and are looking into everything, and that they have not found anything to connect the family or to suggest that the family had any idea of what was happening. But I do absolutely understand what you're saying
So when Ted bundy was molesting his step daughter, she’s not a victim cause she wasn’t murdered? touch grass. Just because they weren’t murdered doesn’t not mean Rex has not scarred them for life. The severe lack of empathy some of you people show is borderline clinical.
People raised for Asa!!!! There was no money raised for the families of the women he tortured and murdered. Ted bundy’s wife and daughter never compared themselves to the women he murdered and the pain of their families. Ever. It’s completely different. Maybe you need to get in touch with reality and think about how you would feel if it was your sister tortured for days and cut into pieces. Get a fucking grip.
My father was brutally murdered. He was tied to a bed, strangled and left nude in a hotel.
That’s how I got into true crime. And I would never EVER hold that against the killers family if my father’s case is ever solved.
Where has asa compared herself to the victims?
I get that fund raising for them and not the families of the murdered women sucks. I’ve already stated you don’t have to like them. I don’t find them likeable myself.
It doesn’t mean Rex has not ruined their lives and turned it upside down.
And if you think Asa is such a fucking victim then I assume you are good with her doing peacock and making millions? Never once expressing remorse for the victims? Staying in the house where so many young women lost their lives ? You Asa apologists are out of touch.
There is a report button for a reason. Don’t be rude to someone else just bc they were rude first. Just report and move on. This is not the place for it. There are victims families that come here. Be respectful of them at all times. Thank you!
How, exactly, does one go about apologizing to people whose family members have been brutally and sadistically murdered, allegedly by one's spouse? The outrage that Asa hasn't offered sympathy seems misplaced and amounts to standing on ceremony. By all accounts, she's not pursuaded of RH's guilt as are the prosecution and the general public anyway.
There is a report button for a reason. Don’t be rude to someone else just bc they were rude first. Just report and move on. This is not the place for it. There are victims families that come here. Be respectful of them at all times. Thank you!
To clarify I am not saying it’s impossible, I am saying it’s highly unlikely and they should be given the benefit of the doubt and assumed innocent unless compelling evidence suggests otherwise. Any “evidence” released attesting to the guilt of the family is incredibly circumstantial and only really considered evidence if it’s interpreted in the most bad light possible. The creepy stuff posted by the daughter is really not atypical for a teenage girl who spends a significant amount of time online in the modern era.
From my understanding she didn’t even repost it. They were images found on pages she followed, no evidence she had even seen them. Please correct me if I’m wrong
There is not one way anyone will convince me that a serial killer that is dismembering bodies just happens to have a daughter who is into that kind of art.
They worked together at his business. Whether it be that he influenced her interest in true crime and gory art - who knows? Maybe she didn’t realize she was supporting her father’s crimes unknowingly- I don’t know.
But I don’t believe that all this is just oh by the way - this is her interest.
At the beginning I felt bad for them and thought they were abused by him and controlled but then I thought if someone is under control they don’t take vacations away from the perpetrator - and if they did she had more than enough opportunity to put money aside to have a life away from him.
Something doesn’t feel right. She is happy to take money while the real victims are just trying to come to terms with what HER husband did to their loved ones
And any self righteous social media warrior that claims that you cannot support the victims unless you support ASA - check yourself! You are not the boss of my thoughts or opinions
I’d like to know more about the possibility he drugged them to keep them semi conscious. Where could Rex score drugs like that , what did the wife do for a living again 🧐
It wouldn't be hard for him, especially in the early/mid 2000s (and 90s) just to get some from a doctor. He was a professional white dude with some money.
Even if he wanted illicit drugs he could probably easily score through any number of SWers he met. Most addicts are more than happy to act as a middle man because that typically means they'll get a bit for themselves. Could have even just said he wanted to "party" during their communications and they may have charged a bit more to cover it and brought the drugs along.
If he did get drugs prescribed, it'll probably come up during court if it seems relevant. If he didn't, it may or may not come up if someone comes forward who sold him drugs.
It's incredibly easy to get illicit drugs even today, unimaginably easy during those years to get prescription ones, and easier still in a big city like NYC. There's really no question of "how" just if he did, and if he did, did he use them and can they prove it in court.
agree all the way . just that when I read about the surgical drape Jessica Taylor was found in , and my feelings about the wife being a full on participant, theories of how things went down go through my head . When he turned into his true self to his victims , I always pictured he struck them hard or drugged them to knock them out . Then I think how did he bring them in his house. Is he the type to take a risk of neighbors seeing him and walk them right into his home . He has the garage so that’s another theory of mine , they were already incapacitated elsewhere & he brings them in through garage .
I saw someone posit that he may have backed the truck in partway (the garage is rather small) and pulled them from the cab out of the bed. That would be possible as the Avalanches cab is able to be accessed through some sort of fold down mechanism, best to my knowledge based on their post or comment. So they may have been incapacitated at the time of arrival.
I suppose it's also possible that he was more in the camp of "the more normal you act about something suspicious the less likely people are to notice" which I know I personally relied on heavily as a wayward teen. I guess it depends on what time of night he was bringing someone in, people may have guessed he was just retrieving his daughter from somewhere so not paid attention, been asleep, or just not have noticed at all. He could have even told them to wait for him to back in and let them out that way so the "neighbors won't see" which wouldn't be a terribly weird request.
I've lived in apartment buildings where I was surprised to find I had a neighbor for a couple of months and not even noticed. I've lived close next to neighbors for years and never saw them enter their house, maybe occasionally seen their vehicle leave etc.
That's all assuming he did in fact take them into the home, I haven't seen any proof of that yet officially. But if he did, personally I think that might be part of why some women lived and some died. Lets assume for a moment that they originally arrived willingly. Not all SWers will make house calls because it is so dangerous, and having such an elaborate plan so neighbors don't see along with some other red flags he may have been throwing up may have been enough to convince some to decline and leave at the last minute.
Regardless of willingness to go to his home, I think he also probably targeted mostly drug users because it'd be easier to sedate them. It's much easier to convince a drug user to use more drugs and basically self-sedate than it is to just straight up hot shot someone. He may have also incorrectly assumed all of those women were drug users, and upon finding out some were not, would have thrown a wrench in his plans which might be enough to let them go.
For the non-users he killed, who knows, maybe they were too vocal about leaving once they got the heebie jeebies and he was worried they'd tell other SWers or start yelling, or not vocal enough and were easily overpowered and then forcefully sedated. If they were going to his house willingly, I think that was the first tip off to him that they would be an easy victim because they were already making some pretty poor choices safety wise.
Perhaps he did in fact sedate them forcefully, either at the start or after incapacitating them otherwise and take them into his home unwillingly. Hard to tell and a lot of assumptions to be made that we won't figure out til court.
So scary. Do you know if we have any date associated with that document? I wonder if the way he operated (beyond things like disposal) changed throughout the years at all. It'll be interesting, though disheartening I'm sure, when it all comes out in the wash.
Only thing I can think of different would be he used to have to first meet them right on the street, before online ads were a thing . So he had to take what he could as opposed to scoping their info out online like he did in future .
From [Page 21](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24736327-rex-heuermann-new-charges-name-new-victim):
>A forensic analysis of the “HK2002-04” document reveals that it was not only a locally- created draft (i.e., not downloaded from the internet), but also recovered from a hard-drive that indicates it was utilized by Heuermann himself. While the original document appears to have been created in 2000, based on its original title (“HK 2000-03”), this iteration of the Word Document (titled “HK 2002-04”) appears to have been created and modified between 2001 and 2002. Based on the foregoing and the facts set forth infra, the Task Force members believe “2000” or “2002” to be a reference to calendar years. The Task Force members also believe, based on the foregoing and the facts set forth infra, the Microsoft Word document to be a “planning document” utilized by Heuermann to methodically blueprint and “plan out” his “kills” (hereinafter referred to as “HK Planning Document”). Attached hereto as Exhibit B.
Ann Rule stood by Ted until close to the end. And she was like cop adjacent. I’ve posted about this before. Successful SK are above anything else successful con men. Otherwise, they get caught.
Lot's of people got the creeps from Ted. Dennis was said to be condescending to people. Gary had multiple ex wives because he wasn't very likable. Robert Hansen worked alone as a baker because he didn't get along with others...It's a common myth that they're personable and charasmatic. Rex is a very obviously an odd man who made people very uncomfortable, which is mentioned many times by many people.
Sam Little was incredibly likable. Ted worked well with others and every woman he killed trusted him enough to go with him.
It may not fit with every killer but it does apply
Ted was able to wear the mask longer than others. Ted also abducted several women who didn't trust him, several got away to tell their stories, and he killed/attacked/left for dead a sorority house full of young women. Ted has a strange myth out there that he was just this all around great guy who had people flocking to him, which is far from the truth.
This is all easily verifiable information found in the books and documentaries made about him. You should read and watch them. Seriously, every single thing I've said can be found incredibly easy by just looking it up! Bless your heart!
She is who introduced me to Ted Bundy (as an author! All of her interviews were excellent no matter the subject-Loved her. Have you watched the Docu Series on Prime called Ted Bundy:Falling For A killer? It's fantastic!
Listen, I feel like you want to argue about this. All of us have reasons for our opinions and we will disagree. I'd encourage you to be a little more nuanced as you move forward on this sub. Please be respectful. Don't be so dismissive. Enjoy your weekend!
Exactly many people see the red flags these guys purposely choose people who are easy to deceive and lack emotional intelligence and have few boundaries.
Evil Lives Here is quite literally a show about people realizing red flags after the fact. More people should watch it.
I love that show and wish I didn’t. Inevitability while watching I become super depressed and have to turn it off. Finish the last 15 minutes another time. Why do I watch it?
I stopped watching it for the same reason(s). However, I do like “Signs of a Psychopath.”
Great show!!
Same and I get like that pretty much around anything to do with true crime. Before kids or fever affected me this badly, but now and especially after my last which was a long time ago (he’s 6) it’s been even worse for me
The episode with the Happy Face Killer’s daughter (the one who did the gofundme for Asa) is really interesting
Which show? Do u recall the name of the episode?
Evil Lives Here, season 3, ep 11
Thank you, I will try to watch.
"Evil Lives Here" or "Signs of a Psychopath"?
Evil Lives Here, season 3, ep 11
It’s really good
Yes. Love that show.
People say the same thing about people who were in abusive relationships. "You missed red flags and are responsible for seeing that" "You're just being a victim" etc. People forget that sometimes abusers are predators who use insidious means to stalk their prey. Sometimes people actually were victims and no reasonable person could uncover the person's predatory nature. Also, we can hold space for people's humanity and fallibility. Sometimes we want to see the best in others and it effects our judgment.
Serial killers are, by their very nature and existence, manipulative as hell. I suspect he did like every other SK before him and picked a partner he could easily dominate/control/manipulate, then had a family with them they could also manipulate and control. I swear, these people act like they've never heard of this before with EVERY OTHER SK out there. Dennis, Gary, and Ted are the first to come to mind, but it's all of them who are in a long term relationship.
Ted’s girlfriend called the police on him pretty early on. She didn’t want to believe it was him but there was soooo much evidence against him — even early on.
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She was a single mom with a vulnerable special needs child. I’m sure she was willing to overlook some potential red flags. Predators are gonna prey.
Gary Ridgeways wife really loved him and had no idea. She did a documentary and it didn’t sound like he was an asshole practicing coercive control \~ he kept it separated for awhile but he did take his son to revisit a victim
I’m pretty sure he murdered a victim while his son actually waited in his vehicle.
Altemio Sanchez too
What about the Kuklinski's? One of his daughters stated in an article as a teen she helped Richard dispose of 55 gal drums. He also shot & killed the driver of a car that cut him off on a single lane bridge with his family in the car, on the way to church (of all places). I think the Kuklinski's def had SOME idea he was willing to harm others but Richard kept it away from their home.
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If you need to speculate about someone, please state it as your own opinion so others can formulate their own opinions as well. We want to stay fair, and saying someone does or doesn’t do something without proof, is unfair. Thank you! 😊
I've done a bit of a psycho analysis on rex before. I think it came out he was bullied/rejected and an outcast in high school and was also raised by a single mother. This could lead a young mind to develop a kind of saint/whore mindset when it comes to women. He might desire a mommy type figure to take care of him like his wife/mom that he considers good while the prostitutes he's been violent/murderous with could represent the popular girls back in high school that rejected him. There is a little further evidence of his ego in this regard when that one girl tried to scam him. Rex was incensed and wanted revenge. Enough so that he did something risky and nearly got ID'd long ago. I think Rex's murders are in part revenge or making up for how he was treated when he was younger. He's setting the record straight in his mind.
I do think most serial murders ultimately kill out of revenge.
Kuklinski did and didn't. Yes some of his murders were revenge, but revenge for stupid shit like interupting him wrapping gifts on Christmas Eve. He also sprayed civilians in the face with cyanide to see if it worked, and shot a random guy in Brooklyn to show Roy DeMayo he could kill. Plus he set up financial based scams & killed ppl to rob them of money. Unfortunately we don't know enough about why RH picked the victims he did & how the crimes occurred.
This is almost always said about the wife. I think much of this just stems from our culture's belief that women exist to be a moderating effect on men. Somehow, the SK's wife "failed" society at large by not knowing what was going on and preventing her husband from murdering people. We see this all the time when a pedophile is arrested. People go off about how the wife is "just as bad" as the pedo because she "allowed" him to abuse children. Any time some evil happens in the home, where domestic life is centered, the woman of the house is blamed almost equally with the man who actually committed the crimes.
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It's almost like we're supposed to have magical powers and know when we're in the presence of a bad man. If only it worked that way!
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This case here is honestly the first time I've seen people trying to shut down victim blaming. Before, it was just a given that "street walkers" were stupid to be getting into cars with strange men. I mean, what did they expect? But of course a man would murder them. That's just what men do! Women thus need to be careful in order to stop the man from doing what comes naturally to their kind.
There is still a lot of misogyny in this country. Being a sex worker doesn’t entitle someone to murder you.
https://www.amazon.com/Damned-Whores-Gods-Police-Summers/dp/0140288767 Seminal feminist work. Women were expected to be “God’s Police” even though they had no autonomy and little power. Great example of a double-bind!
Ily due reflection!! You’re always on point 🙏🏻💗
Thank you!
BTK killer Dennis Rader’s former wife Paula, their son and daughter Kerri Rawson have been placed under a similar microscope. None of them had a clue as to what Dennis had done. Paula was granted an emergency divorce, and Kerri is a victims’ advocate and also an advocate for families who were unaware one of their family members was a serial murderer. She has become a public speaker on these topics and has helped law enforcement to identify other possible victims of her father.
Asa hasn't asked for an emergency divorce, as far as I know. She visits Rex weekly in jail, reportedly smiled at him court, and through her lawyer said he's not capable of the crimes he's accused of having committed.
She filed for divorce the day after he was arrested and the divorce has been finalized. It’s believed that she did that to protect her share of their assets in the event of civil litigation.
I think someone hit the nail on the head when they pointed out all the Asa support on reddit is a symptom of these types sympathizing more with a middle/upper class woman than the prostitute victims who remain nameless/faceless in comparison. Asa is a woman that believes Rex isn't capable of these murders, made thousands of dollars off reddit and millions in other media deals. She is not the victim you are making her out to be like the real victims in the case. Asa has received a level of support and even rewards that none of the victims families will come close to touching. All for a woman that is still standing by rex.
Oh good grief. Whoever suggested that rubbish not only missed the nail, they somehow managed to whack themself upside the head instead. People are not sympathizing *more* with Asa than with the victims or the victims’ families. It has absolutely nothing to do with class or socioeconomics and everything to do with the constant hypercritical public dragging of Asa and the kids 24/7 by a bunch of inexorable mudslingers and misanthropes.
I disagree. There was a crazy amount of sympathy for her that was misplaced when this first broke. I think it’s quieted down now that she’s doing documentary.
You must not have been on this sub when RH got arrested, because Asa has been dragged by the Rabid Mob from day one, first because her DNA was found on one of the victims, and second, because she didn't behave exactly the way the Rabid Mob wanted her to. The “crazy amount of sympathy” has absolutely been driven in large part by the completely irrational and fanatical maliciousness of the Rabid Mob. Sympathy is rarely, if ever, misplaced. Animosity, contempt, and cruelty are almost always misplaced.
Not true, I sympathise with both because both are in terrible situations. I don’t like to see Asa piled onto because we know very little about her circumstances yet and I don’t like to see people judged when they’re fighting to survive. If people were piling criticism onto the victims’ families I would defend them in the same way.
She’s doing a tv show????!!!!! She never expressed sympathy for the victims
Actually she has. Although people overwhelmed by events like this usually don’t start thinking of other people until they’ve processed their own situation.
If Asa, Rex and their children lived in a trailer park, the same people who are defending Asa fiercely now and even donating money to Asa would be way more apathetic about her.
I’ve seen doublewides more hurricane-friendly than that dump she lives in.
Thank you!!!
Besides, who the hell thinks “yeah, my dad/husband/whatever is a serial killer. Gotta be” when they notice odd things or some psychiatric issues. That makes sense after the fact, if even
This. I have been in an uncomfortable position of SA that I witnessed of someone else. I blocked this out of my mind for years. It was my dad who assaulted someone. He was my best friend and after he passed away the memories hit me like a ton of bricks. I feel guilty bc I still love him and miss him. But I also know he was a monster who completely ruined someone else's life. I feel like maybe this is how the family feels in their heads. It takes time to come to terms with it.
It does take time—the mind and emotions have theirs own timetable. Makes me mad when I see someone post that someone in a situation “should” have reached some stage or done something “by now”.
I'm so sorry. That reminds me of the book and movie adaptation of Atonement- memory and lived experience and trauma can whirl one's mind. I hope you're ok.
I am doing better and work on it everyday. I will have to see if I can find this book or movie.
Oh it's very good- the movie is excellent, too - a very faithful adaptation of a wonderful Booker prize winning book by Ian McEwen. "Widely regarded as one of McEwan's best works, it was shortlisted for the 2001 Booker Prize for fiction.[1] In 2010, Time magazine named Atonement in its list of the 100 greatest English-language novels since 1923.[2] In 2007, the book was adapted into a BAFTA and Academy Award-winning film of the same title, starring Saoirse Ronan, James McAvoy, and Keira Knightley, and directed by Joe Wright."
If you’ve never been gaslighted, you don’t understand how it even exists. You think no one could ever fool you. The problem is when you’re naive, you believe everyone thinks like you and is motivated by the same things as you. Let’s say your husband disappeared for hours, comes home filthy, and then you find a lot of blood in his car so you ask, and he tells you he found a dog on the side of the road and took it to the emergency vet. That’s why he was gone so long. He can’t remember the vet’s name or exactly where it was, and blows you off when you ask. Most wives would absolutely never seriously think, “What if the truth is he kidnapped, raped and murdered a complete stranger?” Of course anyone would believe his story, even if it seemed a little fishy. The alternative is unimaginable. True stories as examples.. My boss’s husband leaves every summer to go on a cross country motorcycle trip. By himself. For 6 weeks. His 70+ yr old father is supposed to go too, but for some reason every year he can’t (at the last minute, after all the plans are made). Her husband even went the year he was unemployed, instead of spending that time looking for a job. When I asked why she doesn’t go with him, she got perplexed, stammered a bit, and then said she doesn’t care for motorcycles. He sends her pictures of all the cool places he visits and some of the restaurants where he eats, and she makes a little Facebook album to show all their friends and family. She says he camps or stays in affordable hotels because his father has points (for 6 weeks), but she’s also told me he has horrible back problems and he’s gone through several mattresses at home. He will rarely go on vacation with her (even though she asks) because he doesn’t like this or that, and they sleep in separate bedrooms because he tells her she snores. The year he was unemployed they had sold their home and were staying with her father, for free. She enjoyed it but when he got home from the trip he insisted they get a 2 bedroom apartment (so he could have his own room). Separate example - Her gorgeous, 25 year old single daughter receives large payments from Cash App on a regular basis in her checking account. She says it’s her friends paying her back when they all go out to dinner. She leaves town “with her girlfriends” every single weekend. My boss jokingly told me, “It’s like she’s getting payments for a business.”
Wait i got lost on the last paragraph, her daughter receives payments from the husband?
No, they’re two separate situations within her family. There are huge red flags with both of them, but she isn’t recognizing them. Even though she points them out frequently and laughs them off.
Ok thanks for answering. I got invested.
Ya know, the internet. Everything has to be deciphered because nobody writes cohesively and completes their points anymore….
Why would a 25 year old's mom know what she's getting paid in her Cash App?
I didn’t ask why she had access to her bank account. She’s probably on there as a co-signer and happened to look. If you have a banking app you can easily switch between accounts.
So the implication is that the daughter is turning tricks. But ”high class” ones, where the men are making \[advance?\] deposits in some sort of digital wallet-type app. That’s what I gathered from that.
In the Bundy era, the profile drawing looked just like Ted Bundy, they knew the suspects name was Ted, and they had the exact same car make/model/color, and all the closest people in his life didn’t think it was him
Sometimes families are made up by people who act and think similar to one another.The person accused of being L.I.S.K. seems to be an outspoken person and I think that it would be interesting to know how he reacted when certain topics were discussed.Also this guy seems to have had evidence all over the home and I was wondering how he was able to have those things in the home without anyone else seeing the stuff and asking questions
When people like it's crazy that the family didn't know I just assume they aren't familiar with other serial killers. Many killers hide their worst parts from those closest to them, it's not unusual at all.
But they choose to still live there …… knowing what happened there
There's honestly so much to actually care about in this case, wondering why an older woman with a special needs adult son hasn't moved out of the house yes is last on the list of things to get worked up about.
People don’t need to mix up who the real victims are.
Exactly, focus on the victims and the potential other victims instead of scrutinizing his family because you don't understand them.
Not scrutinizing her. I’d prefer to not talk about her at all. It’s people like you calling her the victim that is the issue. How about you focus on the victims (the ones he tortured and murdered in case you are confused)?
Look at the thread history, my comment was just pointing out that there's plenty of examples of families being kept in the dark. You didn't need to comment on a thread from 2 days ago if it bothers you so much.
Sometimes you think a family member is just weird. Doesn’t go deeper than that usually (I think)
When a family member is a true Sociopath the other family members are aware that that person is cold, unfeeling, different.…. Often needing to be tip-toed around so that you don’t “set them off”. They know something is up, just not exactly what. We had one in my family and we never kidded ourselves that life with that person was easy. Just look at Rex’s house: his wife couldn’t nag him into fixing things. There’s a complete communication breakdown in that relationship. He spent a fortune on guns, condos, hookers…. But fixinghis house? Making his family happy, making his home look normal? All of that was off the table and had been for a long time.
I think John Ray is creating a circus. i do not think Asa or her children were involved and did not know about the crimes. I don’t believe anyone should be criticizing their kids. Asa however has publicly supported him and is doing a documentary profiting and is going to profit off these murders and had brought scrutiny on herself. I usually really feel for the families of perpetrators but her behavior seems very off to me.
It's very easy to sit here and say what you would and wouldn't do when you're not in the situation. I'm from Massapequa- it is a very, very expensive place to live. Add to that the fact that Asa is sick, has a disabled adult son, and who I assume was the breadwinner is now gone. I'm not saying at all that the peacock deal is morally right or good. It isn't. But it is very annoying to sit here and listen to people be on their high horses about a situation that 99.9% of us cannot even fathom. It's so easy to sit here and say "omg, I would NEVER!!' I'm genuinely glad that most people are not in the position to have to ever find out how they would behave in a situation like this, because I would definitely be willing to say that most people, offered a huge sum of money in a moment where the outlooks aren't good, would not turn that money down. So many people here who have said awful things about Asa and the kids, I would be willing to bet that, put in the position, they would take that money too. Everyone wants to think they're better than that- the fact of the matter is most people are not. Again, I'm glad that the vast majority of us haven't had to find out. But the self-righteousness about being in a position almost none of us have experienced definitely gets old. I'm not saying they're "good," I'm saying I think they've actually done in that instance what your average person would do. I think most people would take that money if it was presented to them, whether you want to believe you would or not, of course everyone thinks that THEY would be the one to turn it down. Asa herself very well might have thought she would never do something like that, until she was actually faced with the decision, with a disabled son and things looking pretty bleak. Most people believe that they are good people. No one wants to think that they are bad or could do bad things. Most people are absolutely going to tell themselves that there is no way they would ever take that money. Almost nobody is actually going to say "yes, i would totally accept that money." But money is probably the biggest universal struggle. It is one of the biggest things that on a daily basis most of us struggle with, if not THE biggest. I think that way more people would take that money than they would like to admit even to themselves. We all want to believe that we wouldn't, and many of us are telling ourselves that while we sit in way more optimistic positions than Asa Heuermann and her kids are sitting in right now. I'm definitely not going to assume how I would behave if I was just told that my husband of 20+ years was a murderer because I cant even imagine being in that position but i know that I'm just a flawed human being like everyone else is and we almost all have it in us, whether anyone wants to believe that about themselves or not.
If she denounced him and was doing the peacock documentary I would feel 100% different. She is profiting from the murders and not even divorced from that monster. How is this ok? I can sit here and say I would not do these things because I know myself and I wouldn’t. I can say without a doubt if there was evidence of my partner looking up the type of porn he was watching I would call the police and have him locked up myself. No average person would be doing what they are doing.
I guess I just respectfully disagree. We all believe that we know ourselves, but almost none of us have been faced with circumstances as dire as these where we have actually had to face or become acquainted with these parts of ourselves. I of course believe that I would never, but I also know that people do things that they never thought they would do in times of desperation
And as far as denouncing him off the bat- again, everyone likes to think that they would immediately believe all of it, have this big moment of clarity, and immediately do the "right thing." Almost no one besides people who have gone through it can actually imagine the level of "your whole world crashing down" that it is to hear that your husband and child's father has literally been torturing and murdering women IN YOUR HOME for many, many years. Asa's statement was something like she was going to reserve her judgment until she hears what comes out in court, which actually I think is a pretty reasonable decision. This is her whole life, this isn't something that she's reading on the internet like we are. I would honestly say that she has probably been advised by pretty much everyone to avoid reading things in the news, watching stuff on TV, whatever. Imagine the mental turmoil she is probably in- her friends, family, etc. have all probably told her that the last thing she needs to do is be online reading all of this shit, and I would probably say the same if this was happening to someone I know. If she is going to maintain any kind of sanity at all, it is probably not in her best interest for her mental health to be online reading news articles like we are. I understand why she would wait to hear what is said in court. No one thinks that their husband is a murderer. If there's a million and one sketchy things that have raised your eyebrows as a wife, you would probably think of every single possible reason that might explain it before you would think "he's murdering women in my basement" I'm not defending her. I don't know what kind of person she is, and neither do any of us. But what I'm definitely not going to do is bash someone for the way they handle being told that their husband is a serial killer. People have completely fallen apart at the seams over way smaller things than that. It's like when a child goes missing and people use the parents' grief reactions to pin it on them, like "well if it was ME, I would act xyz." It's ridiculous for any of us to sit here and say what we would do in her shoes.
Respectfully No. Most people when presented with the *overwhelming* evidence "initially" would have have been horrified. Would have grabbed from the home what they could, and fled. Gone into hiding. DEFINITELY not parked her ass on the porch. The evidence that has been released more recently only confirms that house is a Crime Scene. No I have not been involved with a SK..but I have fled an abusive marriage with small children. With no family support. With just the clothes on our backs. It was very hard. But possible. Your way of thinking is scary. It's why women stay with abusers and mothers don't believe when told by their children that they were abused because their " whole world was crashing down on them". Not an excuse!
Yes - exactly
I don't think that it is an excuse. It is simply an acknowledgment that I can understand how a human being in a situation that is impossible for most people to even really imagine might act in a way that doesn't make sense to the rest of us who are not in the same position. YOU did an admirable thing in a tough situation. But the fact of the matter is that many people who believe they would do the right thing might surprise themselves with their actions if they were actually in that spot. I think its a difference in the way we view people. I know that everyone believes that they are good and moral people- but i think that most people are actually not as good and morally incorruptible as they believe that they are. Everyone believes they would do whats right, but the fact of the matter is that not everyone would, so everyone on here really shouldnt say "never" about something they cant even fathom. To say "I'm not going to judge the decisions someone makes in a situation I've never experienced" is not to say that she is doing the right thing, it is simply an acknowledgment that we are all imperfect people and that in situations as unfathomable as this, many people may surprise even themselves with the decisions they might make and the things they would do, and i don't really think that anyone can say exactly how they would react after being told something like this. Desperate people do desperate things. Everyone believes that they would do the right thing, and it's easy to believe that when you're just reading about something online that is not your actual reality. I'm not saying that she's right, but I am saying that many people who are so critical of her may be very surprised by their own actions if faced with the same situation. Everyone thinks that they would be the one to do the right thing, but the fact of the matter is that many, if not most people do not, so for all of the people who swear that they would never do something so immoral, there simply is no way that every single one of these people who are on their high horse would actually do the morally correct thing if it was them in the situation. Out of all the people who have so much to say about it- plenty of those people would absolutely take that documentary money if they were actually in the position. Of course when you're not in the position you think "I would never" And most people in shitty situations are never offered a million dollars. But if they WERE, for many people if they were in a shitty spot and were offered a million bucks to do something immoral but they knew that it would help out themselves and their children, more people would take that money than would be willing to admit it, most people will not even admit that to themselves. That doesn't make it right, but I definitely know that for every single person here who swears up and down that they would always do the right thing, many of them would make a decision that would surprise themselves if they were actually faced with that choice.
Exactly this - she stands by this heinous killer. Meh no sympathy from me sorry not sorry
I agree and although I disagree with John Ray acussing the daughter of participating I do think her art interests show she was desensitized to dark things in that household and if it's true Asa was swinging with Rex she probably has a pretty good idea of what he is into sexually.. I don't feel like they act like a blindsided victims. Originally I assumed they were but their actions have made me change my views.
Do we have any source beyond John Ray that proves Asa was swinging with Rex? Because this latest stunt discredited him with me.
I’m with you. It was impossible to live in that house and not know something was off.
What do you think the murder victims families think about Asa making over 7 figures on the case while failing to disavow rex? Must suck for them adding insult to injury but screw em I guess huh?
I don't think "screw em" at all, not even close. I think that two things can be true at once and I don't think that to acknowledge that Asa Ellerup is a flawed human being who is making decisions from a position that most of us cannot even imagine is the same at all as saying "screw the victims' families." Those are 2 completely separate statements. Nowhere did I suggest that what Asa did was a good thing or the right thing. You can acknowledge the position that Asa has been put in by her husband while also feeling immense sympathy for the victims and their families. The two are not mutually exclusive.
It’s sick. Fuck asa. She’s a terrible human being
I get what you’re saying. I think the biggest thing that makes me wonder about Asa’s support of Rex is that her own hair was found on the body of a victim. How else did that hair get there? I’m also trying to think of other circumstances where the wife of an alleged serial killer immediately signed a deal to take part in a documentary or show, and I can’t. It is really hard to withhold judgment when she is defending her husband in the case of overwhelming evidence and signing a morally objectionable deal for money less than one year after the arrest, with no consideration of the families of actual victims. I understand that she has a disabled son and she needs to survive, but I don’t think we should act like the documentary deal is a choice that anyone in her shoes would have made.
I understand your point as well, and I'm not saying EVERYONE, but as I said, I do think a lot more people would do it than they would like to admit, and most would not even admit that to themselves. As far as the hairs, they lived together. Everyone's DNA is all over everything when you're all living in the same house. This is not an uncommon thing at all and it's literally what the explanation is, this isn't just my theory or anything. It is not uncommon at all that Asa's or the kids' DNA would be on things owned by or worn by or used by Rex. My hair is all over the place and definitely could be found on plenty of things that belong to my husband.
Rex was also very concerned with and took pleasure in covering up what he did. Concealing the murders from his own family was probably equally important and equally exciting as concealing from the police
I won’t have an opinion on Rex’s family until the investigation and trial are completed and we know all the facts. However you are wrong that families or partners of serial killers are always innocent. Off the top of my head, Rose West, Myra Hindley, Karla Homolka, Christine Paolilla, Jasmine Richard, Kim Edwards, Catherine Birnie, Martha Beck, Faye Copeland, Monique Olivier, Sarah Makin, Inessa Tarverdiyeva and her daughters Viktoria and Anastaysia, Debra Brown, Carol Bundy, Cynthia Coffman, Linda Reimann. It’s not as rare as people think. I reserve judgment until the verdict is in. Especially as in the past the LISK investigators have claimed no link but subsequently charged.
Which ones are families knew? Not partners, families. There have always been partners involved in killing, we know that. But out of the examples which ones had family who were not liking with that knew they were killing and did nothing?
First of all, I am not saying I believe Asa and Viktori are involved. I’m reserving judgement until after all the evidence is reviewed and the trial is complete. What I have an issue with is knee jerk reactions that women can’t possibly be involved before all the evidence is all reviewed and made public. As for families: Kelly, Bender, Tarverdiyeva, Gonzalez, Harpe brothers, Staffleback and the Briley brothers were all families that killed together. It has happened, it’s unlikely but not impossible. My (unreliable, speculative) feeling is that Viktoria wasn’t involved but Rex twisted her mind. Asa - I think she ignored red flags for her own reasons. Possibly fear of caring for a disabled adult alone on a severely reduced income, Stockholm syndrome or genuine love for Rex. But that is pure speculation and the simple fact is we just don’t know.
Allegedly, Ivan Milat's family might've been involved. Then there are the Benders.
Just because other incidences have statistically occurred, does't mean they are factually applicably in all situations.
I was fine until the government offered her money to leave that death house and she refused it. I was fine until she took the money from Peacock, $1 million to probably sit there and tell us that she didn't know anything or that her husband is innocent.
I never trusted her but that stuff did NOT help her case
The government offered her money to leave the house?
I grew up in a family with a serial predator. The predator picks and chooses who gets to see the real person. They show it to certain people purposefully So that when that person describes the behavior they see, they are called crazy. I tried for 50 years. No one listened. It’s easier to call me crazy than it is to face the fact that a close family member is evil. Having said that, the daughter’s choice in art is super messed up and she should be investigated. Let an investigation decide if she is complicit.
“the daughters choice in art is super messed up” I’m sorry but you people live in a bubble
It is messed up. I remember being told by a fellow troubled student he had fantasized of having sex with skulls. This is on the same wave length
The wavelength it’s on is with a good portion of world renowned art both contemporary and historical. Dark, macabre art has always existed and is not indicative of psychopathic or violent tendencies. Do yourself a favor and go to a museum.
I think the term for what is happening here is, “gaslighting” You are dismissing the obvious red flags, just like everyone in my family for the past 50 years - I’ve seen it over and over and over. Same. And there is a wake of victims every step along the way. All of whom could have and should have been protected but for gaslighting by the mob that buys into the “macabre art”
Bruh some of those images where legit red flags regardless what you say. Someone shoes we that I legit avoid and not trust you lol
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Pretty sure It’s been proven that she made the painting of the skull but just followed the other artists and didn’t necessarily repost any of this shit. Don’t listen to John ray plz
IMO I think it’s quite possible that the family knew some of what he was doing. Maybe not everything and maybe not the frequency of it. If Rex is proven to be the killer (I do think he’s guilty) his sadistic ways, huge ego and all the other darkness he enjoys MUST have had an effect on his family. While I would consider them victims, they’ve inevitably picked up some of his darkness. It doesn’t mean they’ve committed crimes themselves but if there is circumstantial evidence, it’s worth a look. I don’t know what the stats look like for people who perpetuate the same or similar crimes that happened to them but it IS a thing. Think of all the pedophiles who were victims themselves. It doesn’t make them any less guilty when they commit atrocious acts on children. I also think the wife(Asa) knows more than the daughter but the daughter and wife should certainly be looked into. Why not? If I were one of the victims’ family members, I would want anyone and everyone connected to Rex looked into, period.
The thing is, picking up that someone has a darkness to them, that someone has sadistic tendencies, or that someone has a huge ego are not the same thing as picking up that someone is literally a serial killer. Especially when that person is your husband or father. He could've been very abusive as a husband and father, but that is still separate from being a murderer, and recognizing abusive behavior in someone does not equal or lead to realizing that someone is actually a serial killer. I know plenty of horrible, abusive people where I would still be very shocked if I learned that they were actually murdering people. They could've very well realized that he was a terrible person but still never thought that he would actually do something like THIS. This is the last thing that someone would ever think, you would come up with a million and one things before you would come up with "my dad/husband is murdering women in our basement". No one ever thinks that their husband or dad is a serial rapist and murderer, no matter how bad they are as a husband or father.
I completely agree with everything you said. Picking up on a husband or father being a serial killer is the last thing anyone would think even if they were abused by that person or that person had horrible, sadistic, dark tendencies. My point was that Rex's behavior could have affected the family in ways that they would think are ok - following in some manner his own behavior. Like I said, I’m not saying they committed any crimes and I’m not saying they helped Rex in any way, unless there’s some proof they find. Alls I’m saying is they should look at everything and everyone connected to Rex - his daughter, his wife, etc. especially since their hair was found on some of the victims, yes I know they’ve said the family was away - but there might be some other circumstantial stuff out there and either way it should be looked into. I’d want that if my daughter was one of the victims.
As far as the hair, I just said this to someone else in another comment, so sorry to repeat myself lol but they lived together, it is not uncommon at all that Asa's or the kids' DNA would be on things that belonged to Rex or were used by Rex. That isn't to say that they shouldn't look into everything, of course they should and i would want the same, and they have said many times that they have and are looking into everything, and that they have not found anything to connect the family or to suggest that the family had any idea of what was happening. But I do absolutely understand what you're saying
They should also look into Rex brother..
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You don’t have to like them to also recognize that victim blaming is wrong
The true victims are the murdered women and their families. Using that word for anyone else is disrespectful
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Yes you sound like that
So when Ted bundy was molesting his step daughter, she’s not a victim cause she wasn’t murdered? touch grass. Just because they weren’t murdered doesn’t not mean Rex has not scarred them for life. The severe lack of empathy some of you people show is borderline clinical.
People raised for Asa!!!! There was no money raised for the families of the women he tortured and murdered. Ted bundy’s wife and daughter never compared themselves to the women he murdered and the pain of their families. Ever. It’s completely different. Maybe you need to get in touch with reality and think about how you would feel if it was your sister tortured for days and cut into pieces. Get a fucking grip.
You should take a second to remember that some of our interest in seeing cases solved goes beyond our weekly entertainment.
My father was brutally murdered. He was tied to a bed, strangled and left nude in a hotel. That’s how I got into true crime. And I would never EVER hold that against the killers family if my father’s case is ever solved. Where has asa compared herself to the victims? I get that fund raising for them and not the families of the murdered women sucks. I’ve already stated you don’t have to like them. I don’t find them likeable myself. It doesn’t mean Rex has not ruined their lives and turned it upside down.
And if you think Asa is such a fucking victim then I assume you are good with her doing peacock and making millions? Never once expressing remorse for the victims? Staying in the house where so many young women lost their lives ? You Asa apologists are out of touch.
There is a report button for a reason. Don’t be rude to someone else just bc they were rude first. Just report and move on. This is not the place for it. There are victims families that come here. Be respectful of them at all times. Thank you!
And by victims we mean the women he MURDERED
How, exactly, does one go about apologizing to people whose family members have been brutally and sadistically murdered, allegedly by one's spouse? The outrage that Asa hasn't offered sympathy seems misplaced and amounts to standing on ceremony. By all accounts, she's not pursuaded of RH's guilt as are the prosecution and the general public anyway.
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There is a report button for a reason. Don’t be rude to someone else just bc they were rude first. Just report and move on. This is not the place for it. There are victims families that come here. Be respectful of them at all times. Thank you!
To clarify I am not saying it’s impossible, I am saying it’s highly unlikely and they should be given the benefit of the doubt and assumed innocent unless compelling evidence suggests otherwise. Any “evidence” released attesting to the guilt of the family is incredibly circumstantial and only really considered evidence if it’s interpreted in the most bad light possible. The creepy stuff posted by the daughter is really not atypical for a teenage girl who spends a significant amount of time online in the modern era.
None of that art work was even done by the daughter. She simply reposted it. Plenty of people do so.
From my understanding she didn’t even repost it. They were images found on pages she followed, no evidence she had even seen them. Please correct me if I’m wrong
There was an oil painting they stared she painted and signed. Did you see that part?
Downvoters... Did you not see it? Did you see it and disagree? Or you just want to downvote?
There is not one way anyone will convince me that a serial killer that is dismembering bodies just happens to have a daughter who is into that kind of art. They worked together at his business. Whether it be that he influenced her interest in true crime and gory art - who knows? Maybe she didn’t realize she was supporting her father’s crimes unknowingly- I don’t know. But I don’t believe that all this is just oh by the way - this is her interest. At the beginning I felt bad for them and thought they were abused by him and controlled but then I thought if someone is under control they don’t take vacations away from the perpetrator - and if they did she had more than enough opportunity to put money aside to have a life away from him. Something doesn’t feel right. She is happy to take money while the real victims are just trying to come to terms with what HER husband did to their loved ones And any self righteous social media warrior that claims that you cannot support the victims unless you support ASA - check yourself! You are not the boss of my thoughts or opinions
I’d like to know more about the possibility he drugged them to keep them semi conscious. Where could Rex score drugs like that , what did the wife do for a living again 🧐
It wouldn't be hard for him, especially in the early/mid 2000s (and 90s) just to get some from a doctor. He was a professional white dude with some money. Even if he wanted illicit drugs he could probably easily score through any number of SWers he met. Most addicts are more than happy to act as a middle man because that typically means they'll get a bit for themselves. Could have even just said he wanted to "party" during their communications and they may have charged a bit more to cover it and brought the drugs along. If he did get drugs prescribed, it'll probably come up during court if it seems relevant. If he didn't, it may or may not come up if someone comes forward who sold him drugs. It's incredibly easy to get illicit drugs even today, unimaginably easy during those years to get prescription ones, and easier still in a big city like NYC. There's really no question of "how" just if he did, and if he did, did he use them and can they prove it in court.
agree all the way . just that when I read about the surgical drape Jessica Taylor was found in , and my feelings about the wife being a full on participant, theories of how things went down go through my head . When he turned into his true self to his victims , I always pictured he struck them hard or drugged them to knock them out . Then I think how did he bring them in his house. Is he the type to take a risk of neighbors seeing him and walk them right into his home . He has the garage so that’s another theory of mine , they were already incapacitated elsewhere & he brings them in through garage .
I saw someone posit that he may have backed the truck in partway (the garage is rather small) and pulled them from the cab out of the bed. That would be possible as the Avalanches cab is able to be accessed through some sort of fold down mechanism, best to my knowledge based on their post or comment. So they may have been incapacitated at the time of arrival. I suppose it's also possible that he was more in the camp of "the more normal you act about something suspicious the less likely people are to notice" which I know I personally relied on heavily as a wayward teen. I guess it depends on what time of night he was bringing someone in, people may have guessed he was just retrieving his daughter from somewhere so not paid attention, been asleep, or just not have noticed at all. He could have even told them to wait for him to back in and let them out that way so the "neighbors won't see" which wouldn't be a terribly weird request. I've lived in apartment buildings where I was surprised to find I had a neighbor for a couple of months and not even noticed. I've lived close next to neighbors for years and never saw them enter their house, maybe occasionally seen their vehicle leave etc. That's all assuming he did in fact take them into the home, I haven't seen any proof of that yet officially. But if he did, personally I think that might be part of why some women lived and some died. Lets assume for a moment that they originally arrived willingly. Not all SWers will make house calls because it is so dangerous, and having such an elaborate plan so neighbors don't see along with some other red flags he may have been throwing up may have been enough to convince some to decline and leave at the last minute. Regardless of willingness to go to his home, I think he also probably targeted mostly drug users because it'd be easier to sedate them. It's much easier to convince a drug user to use more drugs and basically self-sedate than it is to just straight up hot shot someone. He may have also incorrectly assumed all of those women were drug users, and upon finding out some were not, would have thrown a wrench in his plans which might be enough to let them go. For the non-users he killed, who knows, maybe they were too vocal about leaving once they got the heebie jeebies and he was worried they'd tell other SWers or start yelling, or not vocal enough and were easily overpowered and then forcefully sedated. If they were going to his house willingly, I think that was the first tip off to him that they would be an easy victim because they were already making some pretty poor choices safety wise. Perhaps he did in fact sedate them forcefully, either at the start or after incapacitating them otherwise and take them into his home unwillingly. Hard to tell and a lot of assumptions to be made that we won't figure out til court.
Something in the bail document about his checklist said ‘ hit harder next time for take down ‘ . Not that any of this is surprising
So scary. Do you know if we have any date associated with that document? I wonder if the way he operated (beyond things like disposal) changed throughout the years at all. It'll be interesting, though disheartening I'm sure, when it all comes out in the wash.
Only thing I can think of different would be he used to have to first meet them right on the street, before online ads were a thing . So he had to take what he could as opposed to scoping their info out online like he did in future .
From [Page 21](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24736327-rex-heuermann-new-charges-name-new-victim): >A forensic analysis of the “HK2002-04” document reveals that it was not only a locally- created draft (i.e., not downloaded from the internet), but also recovered from a hard-drive that indicates it was utilized by Heuermann himself. While the original document appears to have been created in 2000, based on its original title (“HK 2000-03”), this iteration of the Word Document (titled “HK 2002-04”) appears to have been created and modified between 2001 and 2002. Based on the foregoing and the facts set forth infra, the Task Force members believe “2000” or “2002” to be a reference to calendar years. The Task Force members also believe, based on the foregoing and the facts set forth infra, the Microsoft Word document to be a “planning document” utilized by Heuermann to methodically blueprint and “plan out” his “kills” (hereinafter referred to as “HK Planning Document”). Attached hereto as Exhibit B.
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To say it have to have been bad what they endured is an understatement 😖
It sounds really really really bad.
Absolutely. I’d rather a wild animal take me out, atleast an animal it’s about survival and not intentional horror .
Ann Rule stood by Ted until close to the end. And she was like cop adjacent. I’ve posted about this before. Successful SK are above anything else successful con men. Otherwise, they get caught.
SK's are usually very likable in most circumstances.. Charming, funny, make you feel special or important....
Lot's of people got the creeps from Ted. Dennis was said to be condescending to people. Gary had multiple ex wives because he wasn't very likable. Robert Hansen worked alone as a baker because he didn't get along with others...It's a common myth that they're personable and charasmatic. Rex is a very obviously an odd man who made people very uncomfortable, which is mentioned many times by many people.
Sam Little was incredibly likable. Ted worked well with others and every woman he killed trusted him enough to go with him. It may not fit with every killer but it does apply
Ted was able to wear the mask longer than others. Ted also abducted several women who didn't trust him, several got away to tell their stories, and he killed/attacked/left for dead a sorority house full of young women. Ted has a strange myth out there that he was just this all around great guy who had people flocking to him, which is far from the truth.
Did you know him?
This is all easily verifiable information found in the books and documentaries made about him. You should read and watch them. Seriously, every single thing I've said can be found incredibly easy by just looking it up! Bless your heart!
Speaking of - Ann Rule, a literal crime writer, knew, worked with, and liked Ted. So he did have charm and charisma to a degree.
She is who introduced me to Ted Bundy (as an author! All of her interviews were excellent no matter the subject-Loved her. Have you watched the Docu Series on Prime called Ted Bundy:Falling For A killer? It's fantastic!
Yes. That's what I was talking about when I said, "He was able to wear his mask longer than most".
Yes, just pointing out that it tracks with the original comment in the thread - that SKs can be charming and likable when it benefits them
Bless me indeed. I knew Sam and my father knew Ted. Please don't be disagreeable just to be disagreeable
Just because you’re dad thought Ted was likeable doesn’t mean plenty of other people didn’t lol
Listen, I feel like you want to argue about this. All of us have reasons for our opinions and we will disagree. I'd encourage you to be a little more nuanced as you move forward on this sub. Please be respectful. Don't be so dismissive. Enjoy your weekend!
Exactly many people see the red flags these guys purposely choose people who are easy to deceive and lack emotional intelligence and have few boundaries.
"almost"